Bear Grease - Ep. 180: BEAR GREASE [RENDER] - Mississippi River, Ski Jumping, & Donnie Baker Discussion

Episode Date: January 17, 2024

On this episode Clay Newcomb is joined by Brent Reaves, Drew Stoecklein, Lake Pickle of OnX, Jordan Blissett of Open Season Properties, and Mike Amden. The crew discusses Clay and Brent’s recent 250-mile trip down the Mississippi River and Bear Grease's most recent poaching episode. Mike gives some insight into catfishing the Mississippi River, while Brent relays the frustrations of having Clay as the Cub Pilot of their SeaArk boat. The last section highlights many of the questions raised in the Donnie Baker episode in which a 204-inch buck was illegally taken on the Fort Leonard Wood Military base in 2009. This episode is full of laughs and serious moments, and in the final story, Drew shares about his professional skiing career and how he landed a cover photo on Skiing Magazine when he jumped over a semi-truck at Loveland Pass in Colorado.  Connect with Clay and MeatEater Clay on Instagram MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and Youtube Shop Bear Grease MerchSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. First Lights fieldware collection is made for the work that happens long before opening day and continues when the season ends. Products built for early mornings, full days and real use. Hard wearing where they need to be versatile where it matters. No shortcuts. Just gear designed for the work that earns the season.

Built to perform, built to last. Check out. First Light's new field. Worldware Gear at firstlight.com. My name is Clay Newcomb, and this is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called the Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual Bear Grease podcast. Presented by FHF Gear, American Made, Purpose Built, Hunting and Fishing Gear that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. So what's the nearest town to where we're at?

Where would you go to buy groceries for your house, Mike? Rolling Fork. Rolling Fork, Mississippi. Where the tornado hit. We are near Rolling Fork, Mississippi. Yeah, about 22 miles. And, well, Rolling Fork, Mississippi is where that huge tornado came through. That's correct.

And you guys were, you were there on the scene. Am I right? Everybody was. Yeah. I'm in the whole town. Yeah. When was that back in the spring? Who wasn't hurt was there helping in the spring?

Yeah. Yeah. I think March. Yeah, back in March. That terrible tornado. We're in Mississippi. It's dark outside right now, but we're within sight of the Mississippi River. I've got, to my right, Lake Pickle.

Howdy? Good to see you, Lake. Likewise. To your right, Jordan Blissett. Hello. You guys are old regulars on the Bear Grays podcast, though. Oh, yeah. Second appearance.

They're sitting here just like. Oh man, this is just another day in the park. Been here done that. I'll tell you this, the last time Jordan I were on the render, I'd gotten used to unusual guests being on the render and then the OG crew roasting them the next week, and they never said anything about us. They never said nothing about me and Jordan's.

That kind of stopped. The OG group kind of chilled out a little bit, I think. Well, I was worried about it. Yeah. To Jordan's right, the guest of honor in my mind. Mike Amden. Pleasure. Man.

Mike, I got some specific questions for you about the Mississippi River. I hope I can answer. Yeah, man. To Mike's right. Brent Reeves. Hey, buddy. It's good to have you back, Brent. It's good to be here.

Brent's a regular except when he's not. When he does whatever he does. I do what I do. And then to Brent's right is Drew Steckline. Thanks for having me. Man, so Drew is your videographer, photographer. former professional skier. Snow skier.

Yep. Right on. Would you guess that he has two L-shaped plates on both cheeks of his face? I mean, I'd wondered why I look like that, but now... Did it have anything? No, I actually thought he was pretty well put together for a guy that's like had his face broke up. Did it have... Did your face hit a tree or something?

What happened? I had my knee in a skiing accident, and then the other one collided into somebody else's foot. Oh. Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. No snow involved. No snow involved. No, it's been good to get to meet Drew.

And then I guess the seventh guest of honor is Brent's big buck that he killed just today. We've got the rack of a beautiful Mississippi Delta buck. That rack of horns that you're holding right now slept in the woods last night. Yeah. Hunter cleaned that up, didn't he? That looks good. Nice. Sleeping in the house.

Well, hey, we've got, man, do we have a lot to talk? about we so the this latest episode of the bear grease podcast the donnie baker story nightmare this was a super unique

podcast for me to put together we're going to talk about it in a little bit okay but uh but first man I'm always torn on whether we should talk about what we've been doing we've been uh we've been hunting down here in mississippi

it's January the January the 9th today. We've been deer hunting, duck hunting. Brent's been doing a little hog hunting. Yep. And Brent and I rode 250 miles down the, and Drew and Isaac Neal, 250 miles down the Mississippi River to get here.

We could have just drove here. Would have been a little quicker just to drive here. But, no, there's a film project that you'll see at some point this year on the meteor that's going to be. going to be really cool but uh mike how long have you been living close to the mississippi uh 12 years 12 years last 12 years but man you're uh you're a river rat mike i knew that when i saw you you can't really help it can't help it but you loved catfish you and your wife oh yeah yeah all the time she fishes all the time i fish part of time she she like she wants to fish every day

yeah man I wish we could have put some lines out today. Oh, me too. We tried to do some fishing, which January you wouldn't think would be good for catfish. And, I mean, it's not a traditional time to do it. But you can catch them in January. Oh, yeah. They're out there doing catfish stuff.

But we can catch them here in a month or so, too. Yeah. Be better, actually. Yeah. What's the biggest blue cat you caught out of the river? 82. 82 pounds. Rod and road.

Now, that was on a, that's on a, vertical line. Vertical. Biggest one on, my wife actually called the biggest blue we got, and it was 76 on a pole. And then she's called a 67 flathead, six, seven pound flathead. She got both records right now, but that's just kind of a weird thing, you know. When you say vertical line, is that like a limb line? No, like a, you just, you find you a deep hole and put your weight on, and then you start dropping it down and just take them clip.

and clip your hooks on and then have jugs on top. I just started it this year myself and very productive. Wow. So it's a vertical. It's just like a, I finally understood it the second time you described it to me. Right. It's just like a trot line except it goes straight out. Everything's the same trot line except put a weight on the end and just drop it.

And then you have some special thing that clips onto the line. Yeah, it's a little old trot line clip where you hook on it. Yeah. We fish leaders about like that. So you, so you've got a, a bunch of different hooks of different depths that way. Exactly. So you know how you tie off the bank, you know,

you kind of stretch it out there and only your first, you know, few catch or whatever. This is, you got every depth. Huh. Works great. Now, okay, Mike, the Achilles heel of the vertical trout line.

What if it gets hung up down there? You really don't. Not in the Mississippi River. I mean, there's not that much structure anyway. And you always round back in dikes and it's pretty clean. So does the, But it's more for, you'll catch more blue calf than you do flatheads.

Okay. Second problem, potential problem. You get 30 fish on the same line. They all get in the cahoots together and take that sucker down. I hadn't had that happen. But I could see where it would be an issue. I mean, we don't know if it would or not. I mean, we've had, you know, 10 or 12 out of time on there and it's stay hooked.

The catfish are selfish. They'll never work it out amongst the city. Yeah. They're pulling against each other. You can take your live view and get back and look at it, and your lines are going to have a little bow in it and come back up to them jugs. And you just get there behind them rock docks,

and they usually own it the next morning. Bates a big thing. What are you using? Skipjack. I'm a live bag guy. Is it a live bag of wild fish that lives in this river? Yes. Skipjack.

It's just like a big. It's an oily fish. Shiner or something. Yeah, exactly. It's an oily. It's right behind these rock dikes. It's natural and works great. I love brim.

Yeah. It's according to the time of year it is, you know. That's a big thing. Springtime, I want that live bay. Hook them right in the tail. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But, I mean, some of these old-timers right here is me,

and they're skip jack all the way through, and they don't want full with live bait, and they catch a lot. Yeah, yeah. There's several guys that done this river. I want to fish with it. I just met some of them last year. Yeah.

Well, we had on the Bear of Greece podcast as a formal guest, Bill Lancaster, I told you about it. Oh, yeah, yeah, from Greenville. Man, he's a heck of a guy. If you go in the Wildlife Museum in Leland, Mississippi, he's got a whole section in that wildlife museum of all his. It's just a bunch of pictures and a bunch of neat stuff. But he's a cool guy. He's a cool guy. And we catch, we're doing this bark line fishing stuff.

little bit but we we're 90% pole fish pole fishing you want to reel them in yeah we fish we fish up down this bank all up there behind these dikes um sometimes we'll take the buck you know we fish out the boat out there we're still fishing the same spots but it's kind of handy just to leave the house and go these sandbars and yeah set them up and go back eat supper go back check them yeah works good man I got to get I want to come down here sometime and fish with you when it's good and I know so we were playing in this deer hunt duck hunt and I'm going to let

Jordan talk about the duck hunt but we uh we kind of threw on the catfishing deal there at the end so we knew it wasn't we knew it wasn't a perfect time at all but no Jordan Jordan Lake I was looking at Lake and said

Jordan dang I thought I was going to get to they looked kind of like I thought I was going to get to roasting I could believe he was teeing you up for that Sheesh. It's better to be brutal. So Lake, you work for onyx. I do. You work for open season properties.

You sell real estate in Mississippi. Yep. What else do you do with your life? I mean, that's where we could end it right there. I mean, those two things. Duck guide? If I was duck guiding, if I was duck guiding, I would be filing for unemployment. After this last go-round.

It's not your fault that ducks aren't here. It's not his thought. We scouted the same morning of the morning and they was there. Thank you, Mike. Thank you. Yeah. You're not supposed to help him. So we get, I mean, yeah, mine on me too.

You know, my group didn't kill either. Mike's on the north side of this property. I'm on the south side. Before I even talk to Mike, I text y'all and I said, Duck Report. I think what I said is good, not great. Like, it wasn't loaded, but I was like, there's definitely enough here. And I go talk to Mike and Nick and they're like, oh, yeah, man, they're here.

And then we go out to talk to Mike and Nick. that next morning and we all kind of look like fools there i mean we killed a duck a duck i was happy with that we killed a bear but paul shot him right no it was it was neat hunting down in this country man it feels like i know in arkansas which is further north than here the guys talk about how the ducks aren't coming as far south it's taking them longer to get there and down here it's it's a whole other it's a whole other deal i mean but still you're getting some good mallard duck duck hunt in here every year typically it i mean where we were at obviously the mississippi river and and all that you know floodplain olivia valley is just historically good

duck area and uh i mean y'all see it y'all are on the river it's just so low and it's such a lack of water been warm been dry and it just just not down here historic lows on the Mississippi River, is that right? For sure. Historic lows. I mean, it's, it's never been three-foot, food hunting seasons as I've been here. Okay, I've talked about this before,

and when you say three-foot, describe to somebody who doesn't know what the middle of mean. That's going off the Vicksburg gauge. So where is zero? Like what, at what reference point is zero? If it's three-foot above something, what's zero? Does anybody know? I don't.

I can't answer that, but it has a number. It has to be off the marker down there at Vicksburg Breed. It does go into negatives. Well, so, okay, let me teach you boys something. Come on. I'm deducing. No, they must just have like a normal, a normalcy that they decided was zero, and they just said it like, this is normal flow of the river.

Am I right? Yeah. That sounds right. Sure. River experts. I've come all the way to the Mississippi River to talk to the experts. With just a little more confidence, I would have said that's exactly what I mean, I guess it's got to be. Here's, because it's, yeah, here's what I know.

It's like you talk to these guys like Mike that's on this property and then at Cottonmouth, which is north of here, but all these guys that spend time on their particular property, they can tell you what river gauge, like if they look at the Vicksburg gauge, for instance, they know if I tell Mike, what's the river doing at 22 feet? He can tell you. Yeah. You know what? Because he knows what happens on that property with different levels. Well, so I was looking at a map. There's a big, there's a big map. one of the rooms of this property on the wall. And there's a legend. This is really cool because you wouldn't have this anywhere else. There's a legend.

And then the legend it says at 22 feet, this and this floods. And it describes places on the property that are named. At 30 feet, this happens. At 15 feet, this happens. And you kind of, I guess if you get to know a place, you understand exactly what that river is going to do. And so you've got this property along the river that you're managing and at different flood stages, different sections are going to flood. Well, you go to hunting it and stuff.

Well, you need to know if a road, if you're close to your road going under and you've got five people and you're going north with them and you get there and, you know, you don't know that it's fixing me over that road. Then the whole morning is messed up for everybody. Yeah. So you got to keep up with all that. Well, I mean, we experienced that this week when we were trying to get to an island. So the property that you manage, Mike, has an island in it. Correct. The island in the Mississippi River.

Right. Which there are, there are a lot of islands in the Mississippi River, even though they're all unique and really dynamic. So we were going to go hunt the island, and for the last four months, you could drive to the island. Drive until two days where you are. When y'all was here, we didn't even know that we couldn't get to it. We thought we could still get to. Yeah, we had our bows, and we're going to drive over there and go hunting, and the river came up two feet just overnight. which two feet is a bunch out there because it spreads out

because, you know, we got it on that sandbar and it just spreads out quick. And so it messed up our, we had to get a boat and we ended up boating over to the island. You know, I spent some time in Alaska, well, just in December, but I was also there in May. And the tide swings in southeast Alaska

are some of the biggest tide swings in the world, like massive tide. So everywhere you go, you're constantly, calculating for the tide. And those guys just have to be able to read it so that they don't get stranded or they don't kill themselves in some way with the tide's low, going through certain places. You know, like when the tide's low, there's going to be rocks in that little channel.

Right. When the tide's high, you could drive a big boat through there. This is like that. Same thing. I'm just a different scale, but same thing. Yeah. Same problems. Yeah.

And just... Just like y'all, though, they're all trying to get there. and we thought, you know, they'd just, y'all just drive around, come back around a certain spot, drop you all off. And just like that, everything went chaos. Yeah, yeah. But they got you handled. They got you on the water.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, they did. Yeah. That was kind of unexpected. You know, we wasn't planning on getting the boat in the water or anything else. I mean, just we got it done, though. The boys did. Oh, and it was funer taking that boat over there than riding the four-wheeler. Wasn't it Brent?

Probably better hunting, too. Brent, so I've spent 250 miles with Brent as my, I was the, on our boat, our vessel, which I got to explain this. We've talked about this. Our boat, we named it Laura. Do you know why Jordan we named it Laura? Oh, the iceberg. Close, close, okay? The ice sheet.

So the Laurentide ice sheet formed the upper part. Well, it formed the Mississippi River Valley. So naturally, we named our boat Laura. So Britt was the captain of Laura. I was the cub pilot. Okay. And about 50 miles in, like Samuel Clemens, like, you know, Mark Twain. 50 miles in, I said, Brent, and I'm not an experienced riverman.

The weakness, if you were just to pitch me out into the wilderness, I would probably die in a river. But if I had to tame a horse or a mule and ride it across the mountains, I'm good. If I need to drive an ATV in extreme circumstances, I'm good. If I need to walk or hike, I'm good. Boat is my biggest weakness in wilderness travel. 50 miles in, I say, captain, I think it's time for Clay to take the wheel. And, I mean, I can drive a boat, but not a lot of experience.

And I pretty much drove the last 200 miles, did it not? You did. How'd I do? You did very well. You did. You really did. Until it was time to load across that current. Yeah.

You saw that. I didn't know if I was going to say that, Mike. I appreciate you bringing that up. Oh, dude, I'm the first one. It was, it's different, isn't it? Oh. It's tough on since it. There's a lot of.

There's a lot of physics that goes into loading a boat and a current. And loading a big boat is tough. So our boat. And then the cross current on top of that. Oh, yeah. I chickened out. I chickened out. So I drove that boat 200 miles down the river, passing barges.

I mean, doing everything. And when we, I told them I'd, I've loaded a smaller boat in a trailer. But, yeah, we had the nine mile per hour current going down the river. and then I had you and the other two guys on the bank and it was raining and I tried to hit it and I got right up to it and chickened out and threw it in reverse. He had a good approach though, didn't it?

He did. And Brent was trying to make it like a teaching thing. He's like, now come on, Clay, you're going to do it. I could tell he was like, this is a learning experience. You're going to do this. And I finally just said, Brent, get in this seat, put this thing in the trailer. I'll learn another time when there's not 10 people.

standing here watching. And cameras. Yeah, exactly. Well, it's a boat. I mean, good gosh. It ain't like we're loading a John boat. This thing's 27 feet long. Yeah.

Yeah, I've never seen such. It's so nice. Big C-Arc boat, man. Yeah, it's really cool. Last spring, Clay Newcomb and I collaborated with Jason Phelps at Phelps game calls in building each of our own favorite turkey diaphragms called prime cuts. Now, I'm going to tell you, I love mine because it's easy to. use. I'm not going to go, I'm not going to win a turkey calling contest. It's just not going to happen.

But when I run this call, I get the sounds that goblers are looking for. I have a great turkey hunting track record. If you go listen to real turkeys out in the woods, they're not going to win calling contests, right? That's who I listen to. I can make those sounds on my cut. I also hunt with Phelps's cut, and I hunt with Clay's cut because they're all three great cuts. Check out Prime cuts at Phelps game calls.com. I think you'll be glad you did, and you'll find out that the Steve Ronella cut is an easy-to-use cut for beginning callers who just want to start making good turkey noises and getting action.

I just wanted to, we were just talking about the river. I can't remember exactly what I was about to say. I can tell you this from being the captain. I didn't get to married nobody on the way down as being a captain of the ship. I'm kind of disappointed about that. But if this trip would have been 251 miles, I think we would have made a, built a plank, and somebody would have been a walking off of it.

What do you think, Jerry? Definitely. The Cub pilot. Mike, they get mad at me because we'd be coming around a tight corner. So the Mississippi River, in places it's very wide, in places it's, like, surprisingly narrow, but they have the channels marked, and there's green buoys and red boos.

Red buoys are on the east side of the river. Green buoys are on the west side of the river. And you've got to keep your, in between the buoys, I'm describing this to people who wouldn't know, which I would not have. Inside the buoys is maintained by the Corps of Engineers, and it's dredged out so you have a guaranteed channel. Outside those buoys, you've got no guarantee of any channel at all.

There could be obstructions, there could be sandbars. They could be anything. But in the main channel, there could also be, logs and obstructions that you've got to constantly watch for. So I was going to tell you, they would get mad at me because we'd be coming in and, you know, come around a corner and all of a sudden there would be a huge barge. I mean, these things are like pushing like 80, 80 barges. I mean, it's like a massive boat in the water.

Coming around a corner and I would say, I guess you had it right to be mad at me. Now I think about it. What should I do? What should I do? Yeah, what happened, Drew? Tell me. And Brett would say, I just told you what you should do, and you did the opposite. Why did you ask me what to do?

He said, should I pass on the left? Should I pass on the left? Should I pass on the left? Well, why wouldn't I pass on the right? I said, just pass on the left. You got the room. That's the way let him have that saddle there. Well, I think I should pass on.

I said, well, you're driving. Just drive. But you need to make a decision. Do one or the other, but you need to do it right now. What, Britt and I's relationship is so good because he helps me process through decision-making. And you feed the ulcer I have in my stomach. But we made it. It was good. You did really well, man.

Well, it was a lot of fun. It really was a lot of fun. Were you intimidated at all? Oh, yeah, absolutely. There's a lot of folks. I mean, because there's some stories that come up about people. people putting in boats on that river man and just i mean yeah i would be intimidated shoot just like what i said today when when she's grumpy don't mess with her yeah that was good when you said that today i thought man that's that's a great way to do the first time i ever got out on the main mississippi river channel it scared me to death really i was 21 years old just started

guiding at a place down south or right at natches and uh we're going to take hunters out and i had no idea. I never experienced Mississippi River bottom my life, but I was so excited to be there. And I had a deer stand right on the river, and the best way to get to it was by the river. And the head guide over there sent me, and another

boy didn't know what he's doing, out in a 16-foot John boat with 25 horsepower, little calisaki or something on it. So you'll go around the point down there. You'll see the flag and I put on the riverbank. We come out at this point, and there's barges and currents and

Earl pools and I'm like, oh my gosh. I mean, we made it, but I was scared to death. Yeah. Well, there's, yeah, I mean, so we had this idea to do this trip. We were going to try to do it in warmer weather. We had the delay. And so we came back when it was super cold, and which ended up not being the limiting factor. I mean, we were cold, but we had a, we had a semi-co.

covered deck that kept us fairly warm, but we were just decked out with warm weather clothes. It ended up being a nine-hour trip for 250 miles. And we, we, when I, we put in at Memphis with inside of the Bass Pro Pyramid at Memphis at the bridge.

Yep. And, yeah, those first few miles, we didn't know how long it would take. We didn't know, I mean, there was just uncountable variables. and it was absolutely intimidating.

Yeah. But that's why we did it. I suppose. I mean, it's, it was just, yeah, like I said, we could have drove here. But when we did this series on the Mississippi River back in the spring, back in the summer, that's when I had the thought that I wanted to go down the river. I just wanted to go down. I wanted to see it.

And the truth is, is that the way the river looks today, it's definitely different than when Davey Crocky. David Crockett wrecked a boat just south of Memphis nearly died. I heard about that. Heard about that one. And, you know, all these famous people, I mean, anybody in American history that has done anything has been down the Mississippi River. And I wanted to see it. And honestly, today it looks about like it did then. I mean, you just can't.

What I was most struck by when I was on the river, and I knew this, but then I saw it, is that there are no cities don't come to the edge of the river in that span from. Memphis to Vicksburg. There are no cities to speak of. And by cities, I mean, you can, if there were, I mean, it's woods. What you're seeing is woods. We did see the Tunica Casino that stood up above the tree line. And then you would see loading docks, you know, where they were loading barges and stuff.

And you'd see the odd, well, you'd see river camps once you got, well, all down through there, you would occasionally see river camps, and there'd be clusters of them around cities, because the cities are outside the levees, so you can't see them. But, I mean, I just, it was, I wouldn't have thought, or I just never thought it through that the river looks about like it did when Mark Twain was running down it as a cub pilot like me. How many other boats did y'all see?

I'm glad you asked that. We saw one pleasure craft, two pleasure crafts and two pleasure crafts and two 150 miles. Wow. No joke. We kept track. We saw two people. Now, we saw how many barges do we think we passed?

Oh. We had a guess. I think we said we figured we passed probably between 30 and 40 barges in a 250-mile stretch, nine hours on the water. We saw two civilian, just like pleasure crafts, just like guys on a John boat. Wow. 250 miles. Now, we were there in January, which was not a lot of people out on the water. It's the off season.

It's the off season. No skiers, huh? No, didn't see any skiers. But so anyway. The incredible trip, though. Spending the night on the island. Yeah. It was, it was really, it was fun.

Yeah. Where did you sleep? So Isaac and I slept in the boat, and we were way back up this back channel. I mean, how far up back up the back channel? Quarter mile. or a quarter mile up a back channel and Isaac and I were sleeping in the boat and it's just crazy that you could feel

the waves from the barges a quarter mile up a back channel like rocking. Be glad you found that back channel. Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because you had to go check your boat and make sure your water hadn't come over the back

of your motor and fill it up and all that stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was really glad. And then the boat, the water table rose in the night. Yeah, that. Yeah, the water table rose in the night, and the barges slowed down and didn't come through. Probably midnight until five,

and then at five in the morning, the barges started coming through. And then the boat just kept rocking and rocking. You'd feel as the barges increase, the boat would continue to rock. So it was a pretty cool experience. Yeah. I was really glad y'all slept in the boat. Yeah, Brent, me and Brent slept in tents on the bank,

and he said, I'm glad those boys are sleeping in that boat. And I said, why? And he said In case it floats off, they can drive it back. Well spoken. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, that's why I brought you, Captain. Hey, let's talk about this podcast. So everybody got to listen to it. Mike, you listened to your first podcast today. First podcast. I loved it.

I'm very honored that the Bearerese podcast was the first one you ever listened to. This was a unique one. Usually, we've done a lot of, we've done multiple series on wildlife violators and violations. We did the Lou Dill and Charlie series, which was one of my favorites of all time about two guys that had passed away that were notorious turkey hunting poachers for my hometown. Oh, wow. And near Mina, Arkansas. but they were beloved people in our community.

And I interviewed family members to all kind of different people about these guys and told the story about their life. Really interesting. But I didn't talk to them. We did a big series called Secret Agent Man where I interviewed an undercover wildlife agent from Ohio that worked undercover for years and years. And he just had the wildest stories you could ever dream of.

Oh, I bet he did undercover. Yeah. But we didn't talk to, we didn't talk to, we ended up talking to one of the people that he was after. But this one was unique because I was talking to the guy. And I mean, I thought it was, I said it over and over in the podcast, maybe to a point of redundancy, but where I was trying to be like, Donnie didn't have to tell us this story. He could have said, No thanks, Clay. I think I'll pass on reliving one of the worst period times in his life, you know, when he got caught for this. But what, well, let me back up. I also was very concerned about when I did the interview with him, I told him I wasn't even sure if I could use it. I talked to him for two hours. Y'all heard 27 minutes of the interview.

So by the time it was whittled down You heard 27 minutes I talked to him for two hours that we recorded And I told him I said I don't know if we can use this or not And it was because I didn't want it to I didn't want to hurt this guy You know I didn't I wanted I wanted him to tell a story I wanted us to learn something from it

I learned a ton of stuff from just hearing people's stories I mean we all do right Whether we know it or not I mean, like, stories are so powerful in just every arena of life. But I was, I didn't want him to be, you know, have to go through the ringer again for something he's already paid for. But the main reason that I could talk to Donnie was that first time I talked to him, I said I smelled a whiff of genuineness, contriateness. and just he was humble and I thought that was

unique and he did such a good job of telling the story and I thought it was fascinating hell I wanted to meet him after I listened to it did you yeah what did you feel like after you did you like the guy? I liked him I mean I'm like I said genuine you hear that in his voice yeah

he wasn't trying to hide nothing he just spoke it out there Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'd like to meet him. Yeah. Well, Brent, what stood out to you in the podcast? When he talked about his dad. Yeah.

And when you talked to, when he went back in the house and you talked to his dad, and that was almost, kind of made me kind of misty-eyed thinking about a father's love for a son who has made a terrible mistake. and that but he's standing beside him and he can see all the pain that that kid's going through there's nothing he can do to help him and he and it was very prophetic when he showed his dad that deer and his dad said son that's an awful big deer not to shoot or not to get the right way yeah and he I mean it was almost like you know this is this thing going to end well yeah but it's your son you know and so that's that stood out to me you know it made me think about my kids is maybe

thinking about the times that I've disappointed my dad and I would I would say that that was probably that would rank near the top of the things that bothered Donnie about anything

knowing that he his dad was disappointed in him and I just couldn't get away from that there were several other things that that really said something to me but you you said something to me when we listened to it together

you said you thought so Brent's 32 years background and law enforcement you said you didn't think they had enough evidence on him to really prosecute him

I don't think they did that's shocking to me well judging from just from how the investigation went about why if

if I'm going to talk to somebody is to get skip more information. If I got enough to arrest him, I'm going to arrest him right then. I've taken all the facts that I need to the prosecuting attorney's office, and they've sworn I'll judge. But, okay, so if they knew they had the evidence to prosecute him in court and they arrested him, what would they have done with him?

Put him in jail until the court date? No, I mean, on a game violation, no, I'm sure that's a misdemeanor. So what would they have done then? Issued him a citation. Just wrote him a citation. Yeah, unless, you know, there's, here's another thing in this deal. It was on a federal, I was on an Army base. Yeah.

So there's some federal laws there that I'm not familiar with that may have been a mitigating factor and all that. Right. But I just, just from listening to it, it just made me say out loud, if they're wanting to talk to him, they're wanting to talk to him and say, hey, this is the information we got. We think this is what's right. Brent, you told me, I've heard you talk before about talking to people, like talking to people that are assumed to have committed a crime. Yep. And what do you say? If you will give them the opportunity, they'll tell them to sell.

Somebody that's not a sociopath, but some... Sociopath being someone who has no remorse for doing something wrong. Correct. They see nothing wrong with what they're doing. Anything they choose to do. So if somebody has guilt. Somebody has guilt. somebody who has knows the difference in right and wrong and does something wrong

if you give them the opportunity they'll tell on theirself because they want to unburden it's a burden it's something that they're holding and that I mean donnie said it himself he laid his hand on the biggest deer he will ever lay his hands on probably and he said he didn't feel good about it he's like I'll never get away with this well I never get it. He knows he did something wrong. And he said,

and later on in the story, he told you, he said when he finally told the agents, he felt better. He said it was a burden that lifted off. Yeah. Which is not surprising, but it's interesting the way you said that.

If you're not a sociopath, so if you don't have some wild mechanism that makes you not feel remorse for something, you want to get rid of that guilt. Yeah. He took, He made a choice. I don't agree with terminology about somebody made a mistake.

Making a mistake is putting two cups of flour in a recipe that calls for one. That's a mistake. Walk getting out of your truck and taking a bow and error and purposely going and shooting a deer where you know you're not supposed to, that's a violation. That's breaking the law. That's doing something that you're not supposed to do. That don't mean that you can't get over it. that don't mean that you can't atone for it. I'm not saying that at all.

But that's not a mistake. He did that on purpose. Yeah. But would I sit down and have a cup of coffee with him? You bet I would. Yeah. Absolutely. Golly, that's all really interesting.

What would you do to someone to make them talk? How would you handle somebody that you know? Because see, they knew he did it. They didn't have evidence that he did. That's what I meant. You know, I mean, that's what I said. But there's no way that he could have. One time, my mind is going to 100 different directions.

I know. If he'd had a really good lawyer, you'd think he could have got out of it? Doubtful, because too many people saw the deer. One time I was with a guy, this is where my mind sidetracked, one time I was with a guy in Arkansas, and something happened. And it was kind of his fault, but I would have been entangled in it just because I was with him. And I said, hey, bro, you sure? we should be doing this. And he said,

Clay, if they come after you, I will get the baddest lawyer in Mississippi to defend you. And I was like, wait a minute. Mississippi, why Mississippi?

We were in Arkansas. And the dudes aren't from Mississippi. I never forgot that. There must be some good lawyers in Mississippi because he said, I'll get the baddest lawyer in Mississippi. Luckily, we didn't have to go there.

Carry on, Brent. Could he have got out of it? Man, I don't know. It goes back to old adage that's attributed to Benjamin Franklin that three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead. So there's no way he could keep that dear secret. And he didn't. You know, he showed his cousin. He's like, okay, here's this.

This is what I did. Then he gets over to his cousin's house and there's, what, 200 people there? Yeah, he said there was just a lot of people there. So, I mean, the jig is up right then. What I, what was interesting, too, is that he, he knew from the very beginning, he said, as soon as he shot and saw the deer, he said, he said, there's no way I'm going to get away with this. Yeah, wish he wouldn't have done it right then. Yeah, but then, but he just kept, it just kept getting worse, kept getting worse, like he just kept. How far was his house from where they'd been seeing the deer?

Um, good ways, 30, 40 miles. Oh, okay. So that didn't. So when he, when he, when he killed the deer and. the guys had trail camera pictures of it on Fort Leonardwood, and he said he'd killed it. Right, that's why I was wondering that. It may have only been 25 miles.

Yeah, but still, that's... But it was... They knew that deer just didn't go 25 miles real quick. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. What did you think, Jordan? And the biggest part that stood out to me that I could relate with as far as what today's society is, is the validation part. Mm-hmm.

I don't remember it was either. or him talking about, you know, a big reason why I wanted to shoot the deer or whatever because kind of put the puzzle pieces together, like, you know, it owns a bow shop, you know, if he kills this big old deer, you know, it gives me more validation for what I do for a living. And, you know, it's just a cycle that keeps on going from there. And I think that was a huge part why he probably did it, you know, it was a validation of, you know, not that you want to beat your chest, but, I mean, we all hunt and want to kill a big buck. when we do, you know, you want to show people.

Sure. Yeah. You know, that's a, that'll get you in trouble, is what I'm saying. I think that's a big part of why he did it. Yeah. And he was 26 years old. Hey, you want to prove to these old guys, you know, whatever. You know, I can kill these big deer too just like y'all can.

Yeah. Yeah. Last spring, Clay Newcomb and I collaborated with Jason Phelps at Phelps game calls in building each of our own favorite turkey diaphragms called prime cuts. Now, I'm going to tell you, I love mine because it's easy to use. I'm not going to go, I'm not going to win a turkey calling contest. It's just not going to happen. But when I run this call, I get the sounds that gobblers are looking for.

I have a great turkey hunting track record. If you go listen to real turkeys out in the woods, they're not going to win calling contests, right? That's who I listen to. I can make those sounds on my cut. I also hunt with Phelps's cut, and I hunt with Clay's cut because they're all three great cuts. Check out prime cuts at Phelps game calls.com. I think you'll be glad you did, and you'll find out that the Steve Ronella cut

is an easy-to-use cut for beginning callers who just want to start making good turkey noises and getting action. It was a unique set of circumstances that, I mean, I think I said it was a 1, 2, 3 judo kick of him having a bow at his truck, him having it being season, which he wasn't willing to kill it out of season,

but then having that deer right there, and it was just like, it just broke him. But, like, what do you think? What just what stood out to? It flunger craving on him. Yeah. Yeah. Which would happen to a lot of people,

if they're going to be honest about it. Sure. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, at least think about it. Yeah. I don't know anybody sitting in this room. It saw a 200-inch deer 30 yards off the road. it wouldn't at least think about it.

Yeah. We're hitting the brakes and looking. Hey, what did you think about the dollar value analogy? Do you remember? No, but 125 versus 200-incher? Yep. That made sense. Say what was on the podcast.

You remember? Basically, you were, you know, take that same deer that's 30 yards off the road in a ditch and you can be like, that's a killable deer right there. And he's a 125-inch eight-point, good solid eight-point. But that might not make somebody break their morals. Right. You turn that deer into 200-inch, like it truly, it sounds cliche, but it truly once-in-a-lifetime deer,

that's a little bit more of a little bit more waving out, you know, temptation waving in front of your face. Mm-hmm. And, but then I use the analogy of that the 125-inch buck would be like a $100 bill laying on the table. That's not yours, that you could take, but it's not yours. A 200-inch deer, and I want to hear if y'all think this is the right monetary equivalence, a 200-inch deer would be like having $100,000 cash on the table.

When that was coming out of your mouth, I thought he's going to say a million dollars, and when you said $100,000, I thought that's perfect. Because in the white, it's, you know, you kind of got to be in the moment, but in the white tail world, you know, 125-inch deer versus a 200-inch deer is about like $100 dollar bill versus a hundred thousand. A life changing amount. Most of us never see a 200-inch deer. Yeah.

Have you ever seen one? No. Not just out, no, sir. Mr. Thad, have you seen one? We've got a, we've got a guest here that's not on the mic. You've probably seen a 200-inch deer. He hunts a lots of places. We got one guy here that's seen a 200-inch deer.

I've seen close to a 200-inch deer. I have not. I can assure you. I have not either. I have not either. By close, I mean, like, inside of, you know, One for it. 20.

I could, I've seen one that I could say, I'd say he was 180 inches. I'd be comfortable saying that. Yeah. But not, not a 200. That's different. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You seen it 200 each year?

Yes, sir. Have you? Yeah, I actually hunted one for like five years and ended up killing him last year, but he was not 200 anymore. Oh, for real? You killed the big one last year? What did it score when you killed? 165.

And at one time it was a 200 inch year. Yeah, we first saw. him, I think, in 2017, and he was well over that. No way. This is in Kansas, and guy honk with up there, actually

shot at him a couple times at your rifle, I had to miss him. And next year he got missed again. And they disappeared for a couple years, and then last year ended up killing him. I didn't put all puzzle pieces together until later on, the neighbor had been getting pictures of him for like last three years. So, yeah. Okay, so you've seen one.

Drew, you've seen a 200-inch deer? Not even close. Are you a new hunter, Drew? No, not a new hunter. Okay. For a long time. Okay. But definitely not a professional hunter.

Yeah. Yeah. What'd you think about the podcast? I thought it was awesome. I mean, I, yeah, I guess I genuinely... What stood out to you? I genuinely felt bad for him. But, like, I don't know, the whole bullets and arrows deal, like, once they're released,

you can't take them back. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I think it's a major bummer what happened to him. And I can definitely understand, like Jordan, you're saying, getting out of the truck and maybe making a foolish walk. But then once it's gone, it's gone and then how you act afterwards, I think the story could be potentially drastically changed if he was like, hey, man, that was a bad deal and just turned himself in right away. I wonder how different it would have been if he'd have done that Because that never happens I don't know the outcome but

I mean that's technically what you're supposed to do People that make mistakes Kind of by accident Will turn themselves in I mean we all probably in this room know someone that's Done something on accident And then been like oh man I made a mistake Call a Game Ward and turn themselves in

Nobody that commits an egregious wildlife crime, I mean, that I know of, is going to poach a 200-each deer on a military base and then immediately... That would be like best-case scenario. It's interesting why they... Yeah, he could have skipped a lot if he had just... I mean, the more...

Like he was saying, all right, started bringing people into this that didn't even want to be a part of it. Yeah. So his actions hurt a lot of people. Yeah. Yeah. um did uh did anything did anything surprise anybody about about about i don't know what what stood out

to did you think he was going did you have when you knew he this guy killed the deer did you project how he was going to kill it did you like were you surprised when you heard how it rolled out oh i would the yeah i mean because i mean i thought he was going to it just seemed like where how he ended up killing it, I was like, it sounded like, dude, you're lucky you got away with it for as long as you did, because it sounded like it was just very, you know, viewable for other people to see.

Yeah. When he talks about those other people pulling into the parking lot and him hiding in the woods and all that. Yeah. But that was surprising to me. Yeah. I mean, it's hard to hide 200 inches horn laying out there in the park. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Mike, what stood out to you? Just in the whole thing, like, If you were down at the gas station tomorrow telling somebody about this, what would you say? That's a tough question because gas stations are way, there's like no gas stations out here. That's a bad analogy. I like the part that he was humble. I believe he meant every word he said.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think he knew he made a mistake from the start. Yeah. I think he probably got nervous and did, you know, did the line on, you know, where he killed it and all that, which that didn't, wasn't good. Yeah. But I think he realized it real quick. Yeah. Do I think the guy is a poacher and outlaw?

No. I think he got caught up in the moment. I mean, you're looking at that 200-inch deer and you're giving bowl lessons and everything else and you're kind of a guy around there like Jordan said. Yeah. I can see to where it would make you want to think about it. Yeah.

Clay, didn't you kill a dinosaur, like a ginomers deer one time? I mean, well, Jordan, I'm glad you brought you guys. Well, I killed it. The biggest year ever killed is 169 inches. Well, didn't it, like, set your, like, career, like, got articles and stuff like that wrote about you about it. So you can kind of understand the validation part of it. Exactly.

That's kind of where I was going with that. Like, it could potentially change his whole business or life or whatever, you know, for what he was doing for a living. Yeah. Yeah. It absolutely could have. It absolutely could have. If you got away with it.

Yeah, you've got to wait. Well, and then in the podcast, we talked about how, you know, cheating the system really just messes you up in the future, you know. I mean. I didn't feel like he was really a cheater as much as, I mean, I feel like after he'd done it, he felt like that. But on a normal day, I felt like that guy was straight up probably. Yeah. Just got caught up in the moment. Well, and so that brings up this whole thing that I kind of wanted.

to explore outside of just this guy committing a crime is how is the society do we handle people that mess up because I think especially with the advent of the internet in the last 15 years I mean if you read that story if you read the headline on meat eater or outdoor life that said man kills illegally kills 200 inch white tail on Fort Leonardwood like you're a media going to think poacher. This is what I'm going to think. I'm going to think, poacher. Throw the book at it.

Throw the book at it. Which, I mean, I think they should have done that with Donnie. I mean, like, just because you're a nice guy, it doesn't mean you get off. Right. There's still consequences. Yeah. That's right. But what I, what I, what's so wild about setting across from somebody like Donnie is you see

the context that that happened in. And the second episode is going to get way into the context of his life, which actually has nothing to do with the deer. Like, he told me the deer story. And then I asked him a question. I said, Donnie, why did you tell me this story? I'm kind of foreshadowing of what's going to happen. And he said, Clay, he said, this deer thing is really a pretty small piece of what's

happened to me in the last 10 years and he started talking about stuff that doesn't have to do with a government agency penalizing you just in his life. And it's just interesting. And so to me, it's like everything that you happen, when you're dealing with a human, you're dealing with a context of circumstances that you, most people don't have access to see. And again, that doesn't justify someone breaking the law. But when I talk to Donnie, my instinct, especially with someone that's humble that's doing what he's doing is to have empathy for him you know but when I read

it on the headline of meat eater I don't and it's like wait a minute perception how's that how's this work I mean and so that's why we toyed around

with the words at the end you know a guy's a poacher you know if you break the law if you break the law one time then I'm a poacher and Lake you're probably a poacher I mean, we've all, anybody that's hunted very much or done anything very much has broken a law. Maybe not, maybe not on purpose, maybe on purpose, but we throw these stigmas around like so hard.

Like if somebody does something, it's just like poacher, whole life. Never, you know, how do you crawl out of it? And that's why I was talking about, with my wife, we talked about how as a society do we handle people? Who do we forgive and who do we allow a second chance? Because there's people that we don't. Very much. When I kind of figured out, I felt like he was all right, guys, is the part about him being in church and a preacher talking about it.

He said that was the toughest part on him, you know. Yeah. And that kind of let you know that he's real. Yeah. What guy means? First of all, he was in church. Yeah. You know, and then, you know, when the preacher announces that in front of everybody,

you know, and you didn't do it right, you know it's got to kill you. Yeah. Facing everybody. Yeah. What got me was, I've heard, you know, poaching wildlife violation stories before, and typically, you know, you get the sense the guys like, yeah, I really kind of was off, you know, doing all this stuff and finally got caught. My life change is the best thing that ever happened to me, and now I'm this way.

This guy seemed like he was a good, genuine, honest guy, did something wrong, and he was a good, genuine honest guy afterwards. Like the character about him didn't change. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I also, Brent and Drew asked me today when we listened to it about two times in the podcast. I said, I don't have 20 years of experience with this guy. You know, I said, I met this guy 30 minutes before I started talking to him.

And he told me his story. and I don't have a big experience and kind of from a sense of being honest inside of being a journalist essentially I wanted to say I think this guy's telling me the truth I think this guy is changed I think this I don't think he would do that

I know he wouldn't do it again and I wanted to say I think this is a good guy he has Clay Newcomb's stamp of approval Donnie Baker does but I also wanted to be responsible with that endorsement and say, I don't know this guy. Only he really knows.

Did you, who was it? It was you that, were you the one that was saying that you thought that was a little sketchy of me to do that? Do you remember what you said, Drew? You said it. No, we talked about it. And, yeah, I mean, he's the only one that's going to know for sure. Yeah, I mean, I was kind of just trying to say, I don't know. I was just trying to be honest about it, you know.

Because if I knew Brent for 20 years, it's like I could go. This guy's different. I was just saying, man, I think this guy's different. And I do. I absolutely do. But I'm looking forward to the next episode. It's going to be interesting. Me too.

And you're going to learn what they did to him. Yeah, that's what I'm interested in knowing. I'm not going to, you're not. Look at these eyes. like am I giving away anything you you cliffhung us a little bit there am I a poker face you're very poker faced are they gonna are okay let me ask you this brent don't answer because i think you know are they gonna what are they going to do to him any any ideas if i had to probably going to take his hunting license away take his you know all his weapons and stuff i didn't

and probably big fine and probably i mean yeah probably i would guess somewhere in there it'd be hunting privilege is taken away for a long time. Okay. That federal, being on the air base and all that just changes everything. I don't really know what they're to expect. Can't wait to find out. Yeah.

Drew, what do you think they're going to do to him? I mean, I think same as Lake, plus a bit more because of the air base. I don't think it's anything outstandingly crazy. I think the public humiliation is his punishment. I mean, he's obviously going to get

fines and some other little stuff but I don't think he served in jail time or anything like that but I think the public community just getting embarrassed over everything and okay and that brings up a point a question that I asked on the podcast is that to us that are deer hunters killing a 200 inch deer is a big deal what if he had poached a basket rack eight point nobody would care yeah just wouldn't make near the ripple we wouldn't be doing a podcast about our shot too many dollars. Or what if I said... Kind of like that $100 and $100,000

power. What if I said, hey, a guy killed a deer on Fort Leonardwood, Baskerack 8 Point, he snuck it out of the base and said he killed it at his house and got caught. That was the story.

And I said, what do you think they're going to do to him? Oh, yeah. If you put it in that term... I mean, because that's what happened. It's kind of interesting because like what about, you know, a couple more interesting.

inches of bone I'm touching Brent's deer head there. It really should be no different. I mean, the law is not based on what size of deer is. That's exactly right. Well, today it is in a lot of places. Like inches? Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that.

Yeah. We're going to talk about it more on the next episode. Oh, yeah, there's trophy fines now. So if you kill a deer, and that's what I was kind of exploring, I was like, is that okay? is, but oh yeah, if you kill a 200-inch deer today. Now, in 2009, when this happened, I don't think that was as common, but there is a difference by the law. Absolutely. I mean, honestly, it kind of makes sense to me.

I mean, going off of the comparison, I mean, back to the comparison you made, I mean, it's just. But it's interesting because the only thing that gives that deer value is just the cultural value that we as a society of deer hunters. I mean, you take that rack into some place where nobody knows anything about deer, and you set that one next to a great big one and go, which one do you want? Which one do you think is pretty? They might go, go, go, go, go, go, galley, that one's ugly and big. I like this little one that, you know, looks symmetrical. I didn't hang a lot of hats on that.

My point is, is that it's totally human subjectiveness and this idea of beauty that we've created around a white-tail rack. that then makes the punishment. It's just interesting to think about. It is. I think it's interesting. And, you know, the other question I asked about on the podcast, that was just a rhetorical question was intent. Does intent matter?

Like, if he, Mike, if he had two months before been like, I'm going to sneak into that contonement area, and I'm going to put up a tree stand, and I'm going to kill that deer with a thermal, which they didn't have them probably to the public, back in 2009. But why is that different than him having an impulsive shot? I liked it when he said it was like when you're a kid and you shoot a bird and you kind of wish

you hadn't done it. But yeah, so intent. Why does intent matter? It's like just getting caught up in the moment. You know, I mean, a lot of times you... But why does it matter with the law, though? Well, the difference is, like, I'm thinking about, like, calling you a bunch of bad names. or whatever and thinking about it for a long time or we just get into argument and I just say like you know

I mean like I just if I shout out like real quick and it's like it's just impulsive the only difference is I can say I'm sorry to you where that arrow it's it's gone there's no thing back yeah me and you're driving down the Mississippi River and you run over a buoy by going to left when I told you to go right and I kill you, that's impulse. If I think about it, 250 miles, think about killing you and just finally do it at the 249th mile when I was actually thinking about it.

That is intent. That's malice. I know, but why does it matter? I don't think the fine is probably no different. I mean, it's doing the same thing. Right. You know, he thought about it a little longer. Well, okay.

Something else I just thought about, too, on the regret. of doing that standpoint if you really, really regretted doing it once you did it, you still went ahead and tried to hide it. Yeah, that's right. You know, instead of just saying,

calling the MP and saying, man, I just, I made a huge mistake. Yeah. Or I messed up. Yeah. But how many people would do that, though? Right. I mean, I'm not saying you're wrong.

Yeah. But before he told that, like, you're going to write it out. That's right. Because when that guy was telling that story and he talked about releasing the arrow and it hit, I mean, like, I could almost feel the weight of it. Yeah. Of just being like, can you imagine me like, what in the world did I just do? Yeah. And he had to have been terrified.

That's what I got shot. Yeah. Like he knew the wrong thing when he let go. Yeah. It was like opi when he shot that bird out. Nightmare. That's why we call this. Exactly.

Nightmare. Nightmare. Going back to the intent thing, intent does matter in the law. because think about manslaughter. What is it? First degree, what am I thinking about? Premeditated? Who knows?

Involuntary manslaughter, a guy would go to prison for five or ten years. Or not. Murder one, as they call it, in the pen is like, I'm going to kill it. That would be like, Brent, thinking in Memphis that he was going to try to bump me out of the boat. You get like the capital crimes. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, it does matter.

So if you killed someone by accident and a fistfight is different than if you went to their house. I mean, you were talking about wild stuff here, but intent matters. Yeah, premeditated. But it's just interesting to think about why does intent matter? And intent matters all the time in every single area of our life. When I deal with my kids, they may knock a cup over and spill stuff all over the couch. I am calculating intent intuitively, instinctively, and

immediately of where they're messing around and wrestling with their brother or sister and knock it over? Or was it just a genuine error? Just a bumble. And I would handle that different. I would handle...

I mean, we're constantly understanding intent because people are constantly doing us wrong. I mean, like, if you're friends with some, human relationship means that you have to, I mean, with a husband and wife, with a boat captain and a cub boat captain. Like the bay. Lake took me out in a cold, wet mud. Was that, did he have intent of making me miserable? Or was it just happened? When he went out, when he went out looking for the ducks that weren't there? If it was my intent, it worked. No, all this stuff is interesting. well it's been good to have everybody man I was I really intended to like oh okay you got to tell us one story Drew

you got to tell us about your jump that the photo that made the cover of the we're changing gears here to winder down okay I won't know this too okay tell me about the ski jump so the other day so I just met Drew I met Drew like an hour before we got on the Mississippi River it was pretty good we were like in go mode. So usually there's some pleasantries amongst people when you first meet each other. Me and Drew were just like, it's all business. And oddly enough, his wife and I work together at Onex. That's right.

Your wife works at Onex. Yeah. That's awesome. Do you get free prime or elite membership? Absolutely not. I know a guy. You hook him up? Yeah, we can do that.

No, okay. Tell me about the ski jump. Tell me like the whole story. Yeah, so the whole story. So I grew up ski racing in Sun Valley, Idaho, and then I got out of ski racing. Young, probably at like 14 or 15, and then I started doing the extreme skiing tour and did like a circuit around the west. And when we were in college, there's Loveland Pass in Colorado, which is a big, big mountain pass. and my buddy and I, Griffin Post,

who's a world famous skiers, still skis for TGR and does stuff all around the world. We don't know what TGR is. It's a Teton Gravity Research. It's a ski movie company. Do you all know what that was? No idea. I knew y'all do.

I got a tattoo that. All I know is watching the slalom or whatever they call it in the Olympics. This is like, this is like that, but with like semi-tracks. So we wanted to. build a jump and jump over this highway and so it's it's it's it's it's a mountain just envision a very steep snow-covered mountainside with a with a two-lane highway like cut into the bank kind of going around that yeah rim of this mountain yeah yeah we're right over right over the

top a mountain pass okay okay and so we built this jump right above the highway how do you build a snow jump just pack snow just grab shovels and start how big was the jump probably about 10 feet if you say on the how long it take you to build it like weekend i mean weekend like what does that mean eight hour workday yeah probably lunch breaks yeah probably 16 hours something like that every two hours yeah 16 hours okay i get that all right 16 hours yeah so chauvel on and then grooming in the in run and um it had really Grim run Jordan tell him what that is

Oh, in run That's where you land I thought because Jordan Like slob skin He was that right Is that what it is? No, the end run is where You build up to hit the jump

I was really hoping Jordan was right He said the end of the run Mike's thing it Okay so 10 foot jump On the edge of a highway Yeah And so we basically

See how he said, yeah Like as if that would be normal. So he built a jump and deemed that it was not safe because there wasn't very good snow. That's what I'm on the landing. So we waited an entire month for there to be more snow. So you got to have good. You can't have, I'm sorry for interrupting you, but I'm not that sorry. Good snow.

We're from the south. Everybody here. People in the south. It would be, if there's bad snow, it would be like jumping into a pool. with no water. So you want more fresh snow, which is more water to jump into to make it softer. Some cushion.

Some cushion. Okay. Okay. That's good analogy. Got it. Yeah. So we deemed it unsafe. So we waited a month and came back to Colorado.

And it turns out that it really hadn't snowed in a month, but we decided that since we were there, so you had to travel to get there. Yeah. How far? From Salt Lake City, so I'm not sure how. I mean, like, 10 hours? Maybe 8 hours, something like that?

So you drove 8 hours to get to this jump? Yeah. Was there not a highway close to you that you could have done that at? I mean, this is a pretty nice highway. That's why you did. It's a pretty famous pass. I mean, we've done... Okay, that answer to my question is a famous pass.

Yeah. So you wanted to do it right there. Yeah. That's intent. That's intent. That is intent. If me and Brent were just driving down the road and we just saw a random pass and just were impulsively built a jump, that would not show intent.

Okay, so you get there a month later, no new snow, but you decided to go for it. Yeah, you got to say. Anyways, so we decided to do rock, paper, scissors to see who had to go first. And so I'm not as good as Griffin at, rocket paper, scissors. Do you best of three or just one off? Best three for sure. Oh, he got you. Best of three for sure.

He outsmarted you. It's always put it. You must pick You must pick Yeah So So I had to go first But Griffin had no idea

How to operate the camera So You're a professional photographer Yeah this is This is in the beginning So I set up the camera on the tripod I said all right I'll go to the

Go to the top And when you see A giant tanker Or a house Coming through a house because everything goes over to level and past like houses on the back of trucks

I mean mobile home oh like a mobile home yeah like you name it you can jump right you need a big truck coming yep and now he's working the camera yep I just have him to hold the button and told him as soon as I hit the lip just hold the button and it just you had it on multi-shot

yeah this is back in the film days yeah okay and he's like all right so as soon as they as soon as it rounds the bend I'll give a whistle and one's go and then two is stop and three is cops

because you're not supposed to jump jumping over the highway me and Britt have that same thing one is go two is stop three is cops yeah that's it that's international it's like Morris Code

and so yeah went up to the top and got the whistle and went and bombed down and shot over the top of two semi-trucks. They were passing each other like this. There's two going up at the same time. There's one that went over, and the other one was right in the background of the photograph.

And I wonder what they were thinking if they saw you. Oh, but they were freaked out for sure. And then landed and made it a bit, but there's, I mean, just giant chunks of ice and the landings that kind of exploded and landed a relatively soft spot and then made Griffin go. So you stuck it. You stuck the landing?

For a bit, and then it got... Then you crashed. It's a bit of a rodeo at the end. But it was okay. How high were you at the highest point from the ground? I don't know, maybe 30, 40 feet, something like that. How far did you jump? However far the standard width of a highway.

I mean plus a little bit I mean landed 16 miles 15 20 feet past the guardrail you don't want to hit the guardrail so like 100 feet probably or more I would say less than 100 feet 70

50 feet like that this is no big deal and okay and then the photograph that your buddy he took it because he actually punched the shutter yeah so the first photograph he ever took ended up being a double page spread and skiing magazine

My mom saw She was not very thrilled How old were you when that happened? Probably 23 Okay That's a good age to make mistakes Yeah, that's right In that range

Mid-20s I had to hear that story again That's awesome That's good That's good Hey thank you guys Lake Anything you want to say

The Bear Grie's World Glad to be here again Glad you all came down here And we're able to make it down this low river and maybe we'll do it again sometime. Yeah, man. Yeah. Next time we may just drive.

I mean, you could take the boat again if you wanted to. I wouldn't suggest it. We're bringing separate boats next time. I'm hiring a crew that will do what I tell them. Drew, you're in. Drew kind of worked out, didn't he? He worked out. I'm also, I think, I mean, I know I can speak for everybody here.

I was tickled about Brent's buck. Absolutely. Oh, me too. And I'm very... Tickle for him. I've been paying attention to how well you did not talk about your archery shooting. So, we'll just leave that as it is.

I made a couple of good shots. Real good ones. Jordan didn't get to cut on me about to duck, so he had to cut on somebody. We didn't just leave it right there. Sometimes you got to climb down to reload. Is there a reason? All your arrows are covered in Mississippi Gumbo Mud,

Mississippi Buckshot? Someone going to call in and be like, I was on a barge, and I swear I saw an arrow floating down the river. Jordan, good to have you, man. Mike, good to have you. It's a pleasure. Mike's been our host.

He's been hosting us this week quite a bit. Mr. Thad's been hosting us, too, who's over here. But really appreciate it. We enjoyed it. We're going to come to catfishing with you. man. And I hope we can do the...

I wanted to go so bad. Squirrel hunt catfish combo. Let's do it. I'm in. Count me in. Yeah. All right. Thanks, guys.

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