Bear Grease - Ep. 237: Render - Bobcats, Box Turtles, and Backwoods Bad Guys

Episode Date: July 31, 2024

In this episode of the Bear Grease Render, Clay and the Render crew members Brent Reaves, Bear Newcomb, and Josh "Landbridge" Spielmaker are joined in the BG Global Headquarters by the man, the myth, the legend, and the featured guest of the last three Bear Grease podcasts, Russ Arthur. Russ also brings along his 9-year-old grandson Kash to share some of his stories. The conversation gets lively as they discuss bobcats, self bows, disabled box turtles, outlaws, turkey hunting, and the monster buck that got away. Russ and Brent talk about the "good old days" of undercover operations. Connect with Clay and MeatEater Clay on Instagram MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, and Youtube Clips MeatEater Podcast Network on YouTube Shop Bear Grease MerchSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. First Lights fieldware collection is made for the work that happens long before opening day and continues when the season ends. Products built for early mornings, full days and real use. Hard wearing where they need to be versatile where it matters. No shortcuts. Just gear designed for the work that earns the season.

Built to perform, built to last. Check out. First Light's new field. Worldware Gear at firstlight.com. My name is Clay Newcomb, and this is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called the Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual Bear Grease podcast. Presented by FHF Gear, American Made, Purpose Built, Hunting and Fishing Gear that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. What do you got there, Brent?

A pitcher of a catfish and the pitcher weighs eight pounds. Tell me how... What? The picture weighs eight pounds? Yeah, the pitcher weighs eight pounds. He's so big. That's a catfish. Big old flathead.

That's a really big catfish. What did it weigh? 36 pounds. 36 pounds. How did you catch it? We caught it on the trial line and turn it loose. Really? Turn it loose.

The big one. Yeah. What were you fishing with? Brim. Live brim. I'm telling you, man, it was, I'm going to have to go to confession for using something that taste fabulous to catch something that tastes good. We were using big bluegill.

It's about quantity, not quality. Yeah, we were using big bluegill brim. Which is your favorite fish of all times. Of all times. You'd rather eat a bluegill than a steak. Yeah. Anything. Name it anything.

And we were catching flat heads, but it was just so much fun. How big a brim were you using? Oh, buddy. hand size. Oh, that's a big hooking them in the tail. Nope, hooking them right in the, like in,

where the, in the neck. Yeah, in the neck. Like at the top. Like right up there where you talk. Cashfish is like that sometimes.

Yeah. Yeah. What do you call it? Cash, where do you call it when you, where you hook them at? I don't know. More like a.

Well, he said the neck. He said hook the right. Like in the top of the tenderloin, right? Yeah. Something like that. Only Brent would think that a bluegill has a tenderloin. They do. I'm not sure that they do.

They do. Backstrap. Hey, we need to introduce our guests. We have really a distinguished guest on the render. This is unusual because usually... I'm usually here every other week. Well, usually the feature guest on the Bear Grease is not able to be a render guest, but Russ Arthur from East Tennessee is with us today.

Good to have you, Russ. It's great to be here and see some of the faces that's been involved in this. Yeah, man. It's good. Well, and then, but the real guest, who I was actually talking about as the distinguished guest, is Cash. This is Russ's grandson. Cash, how old are you? Nod.

And big bluegill, man, I guess. Yeah. Big fisherman. Do you like the catfish? Yes. Yeah? Yeah, I like to fish a lot. Good.

Well, it's good to have you. Nice to be here Yeah And now bear Everybody's got a little show and tell Is that your show and tell? Oh sure The eight pound

Yeah And these spam socks I got on Wait a minute What Is that what that says on me? Yes Okay

Okay I'll take it Like a six pack of Spam socks Okay They're good Bear Show us show us your

Bobcat skull So Bear So Bear killed a Bobcat with his Tradbo in December. Back in December and look at this.

I shot it pretty much I shot it once and missed it at like three yards had a squirrel in its mouth. It pitched a squirrel, ran out 10 yards behind me and I shot at it again but it moved so quick

that it ducked and turned and the arrow just hit it right in the back of the head. Look at that. And it just dropped it. So if you can't, you won't really be able to see it on the video,

but there's, is a broadhead that entered right there and if it had just had a little more energy it would be poking out the front kind of above its left eyebrow. Is that what the ridge is on the top of it? Yeah. It's like pushing the top of the skull. Oh, that's crazy. It was so, it's such a lucky shot. I mean, it's like exactly in the center of the brain. I was in my shoulder. He was probably 10 yards or something. That's where the broadhead hits on. Yeah. And now the coolest part, and now the coolest part of the story earlier, but the coolest part of the story, Bear was deer hunting, and that bobcat came walking down the creek with a squirrel in its mouth,

big gray squirrel in its mouth. And he kills this bob or he shoots, and the bobcat drops the squirrel, jumps up on the bank, and then turns around to be like, hey, I just dropped my meal. You think that's why. I mean, I don't really know, but it just was like 10 yards standing there looking at me, didn't have a squirrel. I know if Brent had a squirrel and something spooked him and he dropped it. it, he'd come back for it.

Oh yeah, you'd have to shut me in the head to get me off. Well, you know, I've got a very short story that deals with squirrels where a friend of mine hunting squirrels in the mountains back in East Tennessee, two falls ago was still hunting squirrels and he shot two of them and he was waited for a few more to come out and he went to pick them up. There's a little bit of underbrush there and he was trying to find them. And when he found one of them, a bear had physically picked it up. and was walking off of his school.

Is that right? That's pretty cool. Now, he was shooting a gun? Yeah, he was shooting a gun. But the bear wasn't scared off by the gunshot. Evidently it wasn't. But see, he had been five or ten minutes after he had killed those two. Oh, he was just sitting still.

Right, sitting still and shot on both from the same location. Probably at 22. We were shooting a 22 and was sitting there and let the woods settle down to see if any more squirrels came out, finally he decided I'm going to pick up my squirrels and he worked his way through the brush and met a bear that had one of his squirrels in his mind. Dang. Wow, that is interesting. So, Bear and I, Boone and Crockett scored that. We did. That Bobcat.

We scored this one and one that you killed. That's right. And yours scored what? Eight inches even. Eight inches even. So if anybody's got a bigger Boone and Crocket squirrel than that, we... Bobcat. I mean, Bobcat.

Bobcat. Send us a pick. Send us a pick. Yeah, yeah. You know, we've seen a bobcat and we was trot lining the other night. We was frog gigging then. And laid up on the bank. And you hardly ever see them, you know, just if they see you, they're gone.

Yeah. And we got, it was a high bank. He's probably 20, 30 yards away, about 30 yards away, I guess. He just laid up there and was watching us. We got, we went on by and finally, we crossed the line where it was too close, and he just got up. He was like, look at those jokers wasting that brim. Yeah, for real.

moseyed off. Yeah. Biggin. Hmm. Hmm. Well, I was, I was trying to think of the, I've, I've killed several bobcats. The most memorable one was catching one on a, on a snare one time. And, you know, it was like.

Oh, you was targeting him? Yeah. Yeah. And I remember walking up on it. You had to get pretty close to the snare before you could see if you'd caught anything. And, I mean, he was like. fully alive, jumped up on a big old log

and looked at me right in the eyes. Big old, it was a 20-pound dogcat. Yeah, I caught it right over here by the house. Wow. Mm-hmm. Well, man,

this, well, show us your bow, Bear. So Bear gave us an update on the bow last time, and now it is fully complete. Well, like 99%.

I still got to kind of sand out the imperfections and the seal, but yeah, I've been shooting it a lot. It's about 50 pounds at 28 inches, so it shoots. Tell us about the aesthetics of it. Well, it's an Osage Orange Bow. It's a snakey bow.

So basically the grain on the stave that I was using just kind of has waves in it like a snake. And pretty much you just follow the grain. So I put copperhead skins on the back, roadkill copperhead. and then it's got pronghorn tip overlays from a pronghorn that my buddy killed in South Dakota. And then it's got a gray fox kind of buffer on the arrowrest. That was actually the first animal I ever killed the bow right up there. Was this fox? Yep, gray fox.

And yeah, I think that's awesome. If you saw that lay it on the ground out in the woods, you'd jump, wouldn't you? Yep. That is very good job. Oh, and the turkey feathers. Oh, right. That's from the turkey I killed this year. Yeah, that's a beautiful bow.

Is there a significance in the number of turkey feathers, or was it just covering up? It's just the right amount to cover it. But it is a little shiny. I think I'm going to kind of sand it in a way where it's less shiny. A little matte finish. Yeah. It shoots good, though.

It shoots really fast for a self-bow. Yeah. Yeah. I felt like it shot really fast. It fits your hand good? Yeah. It did mine because, you know, in case you need me to take it with me. Yeah, that's a thing.

Just saying. Russ, I have something I wanted to give you in Cash. You don't have that book, do you? No. We need your outdoor cookbook? No, we do not. This is, I want to give this to you guys. So if you haven't listened to the last, actually the last three episodes, we did an extra drop today.

Did you see that for it? Yeah, I listened to it. Pretty sharp, wasn't it? It was very good. We did the first episode called Runt Over, where Russ told the story of his early career in law enforcement, getting run over by a guy. And then the next one, the next episode was called Yellowstone Poacher, which was super interesting. And then we did one today that, what do we call it, Appalachicola Tree Bandit? Yep.

But so anyway, Russ, you're man. And Russ has been also, he's kind of a bear-greece hero now. For sure. And I've said this before, but I've got to say it again, people listen and don't get caught up. The way that I met Russ was really unique for me because I did this story on two guys from my hometown of Meena, Arkansas, named Louis Dale and Charlie Edwards, who I grew up my whole life, no. I mean, they were like my dad's age guys, but just grew up around. them grew up around their kids and kinfolk and i mean there's just these guys they were notorious

turkey poachers there's just no other way to say it wonderful lovely people we did a whole story on three full bear grease episodes and louisdell and charlie had passed away and uh and that was part of the reason it just kind of felt like it was time to do the story is the the year before uh yeah the year before louisdell had passed away and charley had passed away a few years before that and interviewed, well, I talked to Miss Edwards, Louis Delle's wife, talked to Stony Edwards, their son, talked to multiple people that knew them. It was just a neat episode that kind of contrasted this idea of these guys being notorious lawbreakers, but also being people that were really respected and loved in the community,

and kind of contrasting this thing that I felt inside of me, knowing them. It's like, wait a minute, do I like these guys or do I not? I feel conflicted. And we just explored that and people loved it. I loved it. Well, at the end of the second episode,

I got a call from a friend of mine. And he said, hey, I know a guy that worked Charlie, Louis-Dell Edwards, was assigned to work. work for work him undercover. And he said, he lives in Tennessee. And he said, I can probably could get him to talk to you.

That wasn't Joe Liles. Yeah, Joe Liles. The guy was on. Yeah, Joe. Yeah, Joe. Joe. And he said, he's retired. He's not working in law enforcement anymore.

And I was like, really? Because what was so interesting was that the family and all the people over there had felt like that, and may have had some, a little bit of help with it. had felt like that he had that louisdell had been worked by an undercover agent and so they had all told me the story of louisdell and this undercover agent you know 20 years after it happened and but it still was like they didn't know if it really was or not and anyway i'd go and meet russ in tennessee first time i met him and it was kind of like talking to a ghost you know because i'd heard well the wildest thing and i told you this before ral right

Russ, but Andy Brown, who would have never met you, would have never known who you were. He said, Louisdale said, one time I think there was a guy that was working me undercover, a young guy, bricklayer from Tennessee, and he said he was the best natural voice caller that he ever heard. So one of the first things I asked Russ when I met Russ was I said, let me hear your owl call. Let me hear your turkey call. And it was kind of like hearing a ghost from 30 years ago. This like mirage that showed up. So let me hear your yelp, Russ.

No, no. Later, later, later. It was just a unique deal. And then you were on the episode. But it was Russ. And it was Russ. It was this, Russ Arthur. That's how I met Russ.

And then amongst all that, just off the cuff, he was telling me some other stories. And in my mind, I was like, I'll be back. Yeah. I want to talk to him about those. And so anyway, that's what the last really three episodes have been about. And people just like, those stories are so unique and cool. Anyway, that was a long way to say, here's a book.

And guess who? It's signed by none other than one Stephen Rinella. He signed the back page. Well, Steve? There it is. Yeah. Steve Rinella. Well.

So, yeah, man. Very, very much appreciated. You're going to have to do some cooking, Cash. Hey, I think, I got something showing here. I've got something better. Go ahead. Well, I'm sorry, I'm just like hog in the air here. I've got a recipe in here, Cash.

Yeah. Look here. Well, definitely probably be used. Clay's Dutch oven, bear grease biscuits. Now, that'll be good. There you go. Hey. That what we ate this morning?

No. Oh, those were Aunt Christi's regular canola oil. Butternut buttermilk biscuits. Hey, but who rendered down some bear grease this year that we might get to make these biscuits? Who killed a bear this year back in our camp? Oh, Doughty did. That's right. Okay, somebody in the camp killed.

Our camp killed a good bear this year. Oh, really? And one of our best friends, and we'll get him to use that. But when we're off the air, we're going to pass this around, we're going to get everybody's signature in this. Oh, okay. Good idea. And then where will this book go?

Well, we'll probably keep it at the cabin. You're exactly right. There you go. Thank you very much. He's got it figured out. I would have left. He said to the bathroom. Yeah.

No, that's special. Yeah. Because we're all about trying new food anyway, and where it comes from and its meaning is very, very, very well received. Thank you. Yeah, you bet. You bet. Cash, I've been.

I've been hearing about your turtles. Yeah. Why don't you tell me about what you're doing with turtles? I got four turtles. What kind? What kind? I got four box turtles. And we feed them like pretty much every day.

Me and my friends like to keep up with them. We, our first turtle we found was in our neighborhood. They're just kind of random. We just thought it would be fun to have it for the day. But then we got like, we really liked it. So we kept it. And then one day he got out, but we wanted to look for more since it was really fun having that one. So ever since that, we've started collecting turtles pretty much.

What kind are they? They're box turtles. Box turtles. What do you feed them? Well, you're supposed to feed them a bunch of different, like, worms, vegetables, but we feel them fruit. That's pretty much the only thing they'll take. Oh, really? Yeah.

Now, okay, I'm kind of an old turtle man myself. There was always, like, real shy turtles and then, like, real, like, not shy turtles. How are your turtles? We've got, like, there was one that we got recently. Actually, the day before became here, he was really shy. He's really shy. So you wouldn't come out much? No, he was really shy.

But they'll eat in front of you? Yeah. I've seen. Hunger will make anybody. You'd be surprised what you do when you're hungry. Oh, yeah. I've seen all of them except for the new one eat in front of me. How many do you have?

I have four, right? You tell me you were going to have a hard time remembering their names. Yeah. Just make up something. Yeah. They don't really care. Tell them my names. All I remember, well, we have Larry.

He was the first turtle. He only has three legs. Whoa. What leg is he missing? He's missing his back right. His favorite one? And Larry was the first one that wasn't able to climb out of our pen. Larry, you might be extending Larry's life by keeping him in captivity.

He's a little vulnerable. Tell him what? When he walks, does he drag that back right side of his shell? He does. He does. He kind of skid marks on the back of it. It's kind of like the bone, he still likes to move it because it's still like a little love.

Got a little nub. Yeah. But he likes to move it and it sometimes will drag against. The Crawl Creek? I bet he fills it itching and it's not there. Well, tell him what your goal is on these turtles. What are we going to do with them? Oh, we want to try to breed them to get babies and then release them at our farm.

Oh, that's cool. You know, my brother, I was down there the other day. We were getting ready to go to the river and go fishing. And he had an old wire milk crate right in the edge of his yard. And I said, what's in that old milk crate? He said, nothing. He said, but underneath it is a turtle nest. And he saw a terrapin get over there and dig a hole and laid the eggs.

And when she left, he put that over there. So nothing would dig it up. And he's waiting for him to hatch out. So if he has any questions, I'm going to have him call you for some consultant work. Okay. You think that that crippled turtle could get a prosthesis or something? You could release him back into the wild. Baby.

Roast. You can probably carve out a little. peg leg for it. Yeah. There you go. He asked a question the other day about when the new turtles hatch out, do you think any of them will only have three legs? I guess it's a good question.

Was it a genetic flaw or did he lose it in an accident? Or perhaps Larry is a daredevil. That can be genetic too. Yeah. You know, kind of like he's a risk taker. Larry, kickstand, tripod, there's all kind of names. I've never heard of a three-legged turtle. I mean, me neither.

You know what I get pictures sent to me all the time up, though, is three-legged bears. Really? Often. Yeah, I'm kind of like the three-legged bear guy. How does it walk? Does it walk weird? Man, those three-legged bears are just as fast. A bear, I don't even know why God gave a bear four legs.

For real. Because the ones that have three seem to do just fine. We filmed one up in Saskatchewan, if you remember. Really? When you say that, it's sparky memories. The day... Was it missing just like a... We called it.

Oh, Nubbing. Yeah, he was missing like right at his elbow or something. Yeah, you always wondered how that happened. He was running with the one that had the manes. His old had was all, all his hair was all gone. Well, they were... Rough time for the bears. They were a crew.

Mangey and the Nub. Yeah, the Island of Misfit Bears. Yeah, yeah. I'm not going to start a band, Mangee in the Nub. Mangee in the Nub. It's a cartoon. I'll listen to it, watching. Mangey in the nub.

Yeah. Well, I'll be darned. Well, that's cool. That's cool. He's done a real good job with it. He actually ordered some box turtle food, and we've made them quite an extensive pen now. They've got a big area of the right.

Oh, that's good. He figured out we needed a hollow logs for them to get under. It's got quite the place. I'm proud of him. Excellent. Excellent. That's good. You send us some pictures of there.

Yeah, we will. Last spring, Clay Newcomb and I collaborated with Jason Phelps at Phelps game calls and building each of our own favorite turkey diaphragms called Prime Cuts. Now I'm going to tell you, I love mine because it's easy to use. I'm not going to go, I'm not going to win a turkey calling

contest. It's just not going to happen. But when I run this call, I get the sounds that gobblers are looking for. I have a great turkey hunting track record. If you go listen to real turkeys out in the woods, they're not going to win calling contests, right? That's who I

listen to. I can make those sounds on my cut. I also hunt with Phelps's cut and I hunt with Clay's cut because they're all three great cuts. Check out Prime Cuts at Phelpsgamecalls.com. I think you'll be glad you did

and you'll find out that the Steve Ronella cut is an easy-to-use cut for beginning callers who just want to start making good turkey noises and getting action. Man, I've got so many things I would like to do I want to get into this episode.

Russ told the story that we wish we had recorded. It was a hunting story. It wasn't a law enforcement story. Tell me about that. This was just a couple years ago. Yeah. Tell me about that buck. Well, there's like any good hunting camp,

you've got special friends that are associated with you. You know, we've all been there. And Cash and I are very blessed having really good, good friends in the hunting world that they extend out to the non-hunting times as well. So we're all up at the cabin. You know, we've got a small cabin and we're going on about a three or four-day deer hunt. In this particular area that was, it was buck only. And you could kill any wild hogs. And it was actually one bear.

You know, and it was what we were going to be on a three-day hunt. So we go up there on the first morning, two of my best friends, they took off into the back country a couple hours before daylight, and I just decided to hang around the camp and just take it easy. I can't remember. I was extremely tired or something. I was just going to have a lazy hunt, just more or less, hunt around the cabin, and his luck would have it.

I shot a pretty nice eight-pointer, nothing to right home about, but it was a good mountain deer and it was close to the cabin, good meat. So we were all talking, what are you going to do tomorrow? You know, you've tagged out. I said, well, I'm going to turkey scouting. So basically,

we always pick out areas on the map that we've never been. And I said, you know, we've always wanted to look at this remote area here. I'm going to go in there and look at it tomorrow. You know, who knows, I might find a hog or maybe you can be a bear there. Well, I get in there.

So you got your gun. Got my gun. And I get in there. and I'm on my way out of this area and there's just monster buck. I mean, huge. How did you first see it? A doe came under.

So you were moving? Yes, I was moving. And you just caught her before she caught you. Yes, and she comes up this holla, this draw, open hardwoods. And I'm watching her, and she actually goes up and beds down. And then this big mountain buck comes up kind of following her. And he just stops. And he's looking around and looking around.

And he's huge. You showed me a picture of it. I mean, you said it's one of the biggest deer you've probably seen in the mountains. It was. It was one of the biggest deer that I'd seen in the mountains. And I'm sitting there thinking, you know, I'm retired. Here I am looking at one of the biggest deer. And, you know, what a way to test your ethical nerves, you know.

I've got contact with my two friends with radio. you know, we didn't have cell service where we're at. And it'd be very easy for me to shoot it and call them, tell them come and tag it. I'm not doing that. How far was it? Oh, it wasn't but 30 or 40 yards. Oh, good guys, man.

Wait till you see the photos. I took pictures of it. I videoed it. It was, you know, it was looking around. I got shots of it looking away from him. You know, a deer looks bigger when it's looking away from you anyway. So anyway, it passes, and I'm thinking, you know, that's good enough. I got pictures of it.

Well, we get back to the cabin. And we find out through some sources that they had changed the limit. Oh. So two bucks that year. Oh, no. So for years, it had been one buck. And, you know, the area manager of that area tells me, you need to start reading your book.

He said, because last year we changed it to one, to two tiers. So was it, you got pictures? it was okay then anyway or not. What's that? You said it was just as good. Oh, yeah. No, no, no. It wasn't fair to me.

Man, that's how you tell people. But the sad part about it is the very, that would have been three years ago. So the past two falls, I have stomped the area dry and not found that deer sign anywhere. Oh, no. I cannot find any sign. I don't know where he came from. It's just like he decided to go through there and torment me that one morning. Man, there's something about the one.

that get away from you that you should have killed that you'll remember forever one time about a year ago I sat down and I rode out every big buck that I qualified as should have been dead but wasn't you know I mean it's easy to remember the deer that you killed because you got their horns and you got that memory and but there's something about the and I'm talking about the big ones like you know the the good shooter deer that you wanted to bring home with you and uh and i sat down and counted up 11 deer that i could i can tell you more about those deer than i probably can the ones that i killed oh yeah you know just just like the scenario the sequence what happened and uh i was just i had that list and i i don't know where the list is i can make the list

again but every one of those deer kind of had a name you know the so-and-so farm buck the Biss Mountain Buck. And I kind of looked at that, and I think there's a correlation between that number and the number that you have actually killed. You know what I mean? Oh, yes. Like if you...

Well, it's a statement... It takes a lot of time. I mean, I spent just as much time trying to kill those deer as I did the ones that I did kill. It's a statement on what the deal is on why you're out there. It's not just a killing. Exactly right.

Because if it's just about killing them, you wouldn't even remember them. Well, yeah, about these over here. And, you know, I was told a long time ago,

Son, you're going to remember those misses a lot more than you will to kill. You know, from when I was 15, 16 years old,

that was, that was, and it was so true. But on the funny side of that, this year, I missed a turkey that, unmistakably should have been killed.

And my best friend, 15-yard behind me, opening day, public land, and four long beards came in. Doesn't happen on public land. First time that has ever happened to. And after the mess, we're sitting there by the tree, and he's trying to remind me about we're going to remember that. And I said, you know, you're right.

I said, but it's been a long time since I missed. And then he started reminding me, well, what about such and such things? You might not have remembered, but he did. What about this man? I'm like, well, yeah, but I've tried to forget that. Former best friend. But that's so much true to that. That's a, that's a, that's a testimony to why you're there.

Yeah. Exactly right. And this one's this year. You know, that was, he'll remember that miss. Have you forgotten it yet? No. Okay. Well, you're for sure not going to forget it now that you're on the Bear Grays podcast.

You've told everybody. Well, if you ever decide to go hunting with him, and always beware that he might, he's so desperate to hear a turkey that he makes up it. Your grandpa does? Yeah. He makes, so he'll be sitting there and he'll be like,

I think I just heard one. Yeah. What does he say? He says, there's one over there, Cash. And then we'll be waiting there for a couple, like 20 minutes. And then I'm like, he doesn't call again. I'm like, are you sure there's one over there? And he's like, yeah, for sure, I heard it.

And I had never heard it. Hey, what does, so I know every, every dad, grandpa, every turkey hunter has a certain way that they act when they hear a gobbler. Like, you know, like, what does your grandpa do when he hears one and doesn't expect it? I would say he gets pretty excited. He gets, like, he gets excited, especially if I'm with him because he likes to have that experience with me. but he gets pretty excited. What does he say? Does he just,

does he point? Does he? Um, honestly, I don't really know. Okay. He don't do like my, my brother did me

and like push me backwards. He didn't push you backwards. Trim you down or anything like that. Although when he was trying to get me the other way, he did, like, throw me a fool. Well, the turkey was coming around the other side. side of the tree we had to do something quick i can't do my my normal friends that way they turn

around slap me you just move them that's good uh yeah that's that's good brent what do you do when you hear turkey yeah do you know do you say something well when it's me and you and it's and me and my brother a lot of times if we're there together and we're here we'll point and he'll be pointing this way You'll be pointing that way and I'll be pointing this way. Yeah. Yeah. Clay does this. He does it with his hand.

Yeah. Yeah. Yep, there he is right there. Let's go. Yeah. And there's been a lot of arguments on direction. That's the big thing, especially if you're hunting mountains, but then I've had occasion to hunt some flat ground and it's even worse. Oh, me and my brother were standing on the Lake Slough Bridge on the lower potlatch road in Cleveland County, not far from Sling, really?

So if you want to find a turkey, that's where you go. It's behind the lock gate. It's behind a lock gate. Triangulate that, fucks. You had to parachute in there. But I'm standing facing downstream, and he's looking upstream, and turkey gobbled. And we looked at each other and both pointed in the opposite direction. Although, did you hear one, too?

And he said, no, did you hear one? It was the same turkey. But I was right, because I have the microphone. I can say I have a... You were right. Yep. My dad always told the story. you know, just like childhood lore, he remembered.

And I think it happened when he first started bow hunting and was just kind of getting used to, I don't know, tracking deer in the dark and getting out of navigating the woods in the dark. And he said he and his buddy had shot this deer, killed the deer and had tracked it, pretty long track job. And it's like, all right, we got it. And he said, they gutted it. And they're like, all right, let's head to the truck.

And they, he grabs the back legs. The guy grabs the front legs. And they just head in opposite direction. And then they stop and he's like, where are you going? And he's like, I'm going to the truck. And where are you going? I'm going to the truck. And, you know, they didn't have GPS or cell phones.

And he said they had to sit there and listen. And about, you know, some time later, a truck came down a gravel road and they remembered which way. I was right. I honestly can't remember. If dad was here, I'm sure he'd say it. He was right. Me and Michael was leaving a tree the other night. Hot, man, trying to go on back.

to the buggy. Yeah, we're walking, walking, walking. I'm like, you know where are you going? He said, I'm following you. Neither one of us was. I was following him. He was following me. We made a pretty good roundabout until we got back to the side.

Yeah. One of the things that I really appreciate around our camp now is there's been a lot of kids that's been raised in that camp that are up like Bears' age and older, that we fight now to get them to go with us because they got better. They got better. Yeah. I'm like, hey, Donnie, what's Zach doing? What's Donald doing?

Can he go with me tomorrow? Yeah. Hey, what's cash doing? Yeah. Which way was he, boy? Yeah. I'm not proud. You can't hear direction very well, though.

I remember whenever I was a little kid and you'd bring me along and you'd say, you'd say which way was that turkey. Oh, yeah. I was never really confident on which way I heard it, but I just remember you couldn't hear him at all. You were way ahead of you dead I've got a bad ear And I can't course one

I try I considered for a while Getting my When I fed my mules To gobble To watch your ears So that day when they heard a turkey Gobble

They would cue That's clever Because I envision being Being in the mountains Riding my mule And hearing a turkey gobble 300 yards away and Izzy just going,

Bing. Pavlov Mew. And? I just never did it. I just never pursued it. I think it would be pretty. It's a funny, it's a fun thing to think. It would be very difficult to do.

Now, they will cue in on just, like if they see something, they hear something, they absolutely will cue on it. But something, like some far off random noise, like they're not going to. They're not going to mess with it. But talking about direction, though, this is disconnected slightly, coon hunting story. I'll never forget this. Greatest, most unsolved mystery in Clay's life of all time. Black Panther.

What's that? It was a Black Panther. There's definitely Black Panther country. But I was in the Washhtaws when I was a kid, Coon Hunting. And this story's not that good. And I remember. tune out folks. We cut the dogs loose and go to a treed hound, and there was a big creek.

And it was such a good place to hunt because there's two big mountains and a creek. And the creek's running downhill. And, you know, we walked up the creek to get to the truck. Or to, excuse me, we walked away from the truck going upstream. I mean, it's just impossible to get lost. But we go to this tree dog, and I drop. back down to the creek and know, I mean, with every ounce of instinct that the truck, that that's downstream, you know, that way is the truck. And when I get to that water, the water's going to be

flowing that direction. I mean, it would have been like if I'd have thrown an apple up in the air and you say, which way is the apple going to fall? I'd be like, it's going to come to the ground. I get to that creek and it's flowing that way. The wrong way. And I said, Lord, you have flipped the earth while we went after that coon. The Lord has literally turned the earth in a circle. I remember it was the first time in the dark that I was just absolutely scrambled. It was real disorienting. I was just like, what?

Just called getting lost. But I followed what I knew was riding. Sure enough, there was a truck. But disoriented. It's been the rest of my life disoriented. It can happen. I made a living out of it. Yeah.

Have you ever been real lost bear? I can think of one time when I had this real... I was chasing a turkey down this ATV trail. And in my mind, I had this real clear image of like where the main road was in comparison to where I was. And so there was like two roads that split. Like you, they'd tee off and there's road that goes north and a road that goes south.

And the main road was parallel with them. the road that goes north kind of would like it turned and started going west and so I thought I don't remember the exact details but I started going down that road or the south road

and in my mind the main road was just like right down the mountain I chased this turkey all morning and eventually the turkey I lose them and so I just start walking down to get to the main road and I just keep walking

until I get to the bottom of the mountain And there's no road. And it starts going up. And there was no road. And then I start hearing like ATVs way over here. So I was just like, well, maybe it's over there. Walked over there. Nothing.

And so eventually I just started walking in a, I just picked a direction and walked and popped out on the road. Yeah. There was a game warden coming around actually about that time. Oh. And I was totally illegal. I had absolutely nothing died. You know what's amazing about it.

that is as I've learned when you do run across roads or trails, that many times will get you not paying attention to your terrain like you really should be, especially if you're doing land navigation with a map that you'll travel further and faster on those trails and roads than you normally would. And you're not paying near as much attention, and you do get those visuals in your mind or where you're at, because that's happened to me several times. It's thinking, you know, but it seems like all the times that I've been turned around like that, It's been when I've run across a road or a trail that I thought I knew exactly the direction that it went. Do you use map online, like on X hunt or anything on your phone?

I've got mapping programs on my phone, but I still carry a hard copy topo map in a map case that I check frequently. Really? And I, oh, yes. Oh, yeah. Old school. Well, it's, you know, technology, if you've. if it's got a battery, it can go dead. Yeah.

You know. Yeah, we're dangerously dependent on that little thing. We are. I mean, what if you'd lost it? Oh, yeah. I mean, and in most places, you know, getting lost is not that big a deal. It's just more of an inconvenience. Right.

But there are places where you get lost, you could be in trouble. Well, there's a, there's a lot of people that if you just gave them a topo map, a hard copy that, that could, get around. You know, that couldn't get around. Yeah. I saw an ad.

It was like, it was questioning people, what, how do you think you would do if I took away your cell phone for 24 hours? And they said, there was one guy that said,

I could probably do it. But if it ever did come true, it was something like, I probably wouldn't let it happen. How would you do without your phone for 24 hours? You'd be just fine, wouldn't you? Yeah, maybe. Maybe.

Well, it depends on who's with me. A lot of times if I'm playing with my friends, I would be fine. Yeah. I lost my phone the other day, and it kayaking, kayak flipped, and the phone got washed away. And it was like the last two days of turkey season, and so I tried to set an alarm. I had a turkey located and I tried to set an alarm on my computer and it never went off

and I didn't have a phone for like three days and I never broke up and never. It was the last day of turkey season and I just knew right where one was. But I lost my phone the day before in the river and it was big inconvenience. It's a sad story.

That is sad story. How many numbers are you hunting from home? Yeah, well, I was hunting around here, yeah. They make an alarm clock. You can get it at Walmart. Nobody has an alarm clock around here. That is.

On Blood Trails, the stories don't end when the hunt is over. They just get darker. I've seen something in the road. I instantly thought it was a sleeping bag. And there was a full of blood. Oh, my God. He doesn't have a hit.

Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors, where the terrain is unforgiving, The evidence is scarce and the truth gets buried under brush and silence. Indications were he should be right there, but he wasn't. This season, we're going deeper. From cold case files to whispered suspicions, from remote mountains to frozen backwards. Each story begins in the wilderness and ends in darkness.

Because out here, there are no witnesses, no cameras, just fragments and the people left behind trying to piece them back. together. He's not an honest person. He's incapable of being honest. Somebody somewhere knows something. I'm Jordan Sillers. Season 2 of Blood Trails premieres April 16th. Follow now on Apple, Iheart, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's talk about this episode. Yellowstone Poacher. Super unique story of, Russ is such a good storyteller, too. Yeah, he is.

It was just a unique story in so many ways. Josh, what stood out to you about it? It's interesting to me. When was that, Russ? Yeah, you know, we didn't tell the approximate date of that. That would have been in the mid-90s. Okay. Mid-90s.

So that would have been a bit of a different experience than it would have been today. Oh, most definitely. with technology, but the fact that this guy was able to run this scam for a while, it sounded like, was pretty amazing to me. And the fact that he would just cherry pick his customers at these things were pretty amazing. But just the fact that this guy could continue to get customers with this food hanging out there and taking, I mean, it's amazing to me that there's. I mean, he probably didn't have repeat customers, did he?

No, it was one-time customers. and most of them were successful. So, you know. Yeah. Yeah, or the fact that nobody turned them in. You know, pretty amazing. Yeah. You think that's pretty common for people to do stuff like that?

Like, so if you haven't listened to the episode, you should, but, I mean, this guy was illegally outfitting. Like, you can't charge somebody money and take them really anywhere in any state. Like, if you're going to do any kind of guiding in any state, you've got to have a license. I mean, in Arkansas, it's cheap. It's not a big deal. But primarily where he was getting in trouble is he was guiding people for money on public land in Montana. But the kicker was that they were oftentimes going into Yellowstone National Park.

He was illegal guiding and hunting in the national park. So my question was, in your experience, so Russ was the regional supervisor for special agents in a big section of the U.S. for the U.S. Forest Service. I mean, is that common? Well, the illegal guiding is more of an issue out west than it is back east because of the vast areas of public land that they have out west. And most states have a two-tier process, if you will, before you can guide. You have to have a license through your state. Like in Montana, you have to have a license to guide, you know,

through the state of Montana. Then if you go on public land, you have to have a permit through the US Force Service. For that specific public land. For that track. For that track of land. And most of them are broken out in units.

And the reason they do that is they don't want any overuse of any unit and they're able to manage it and spread them out. So you've got quality experience. And they take into consideration and they work with the respective state agencies to ensure that, you know,

you don't overload any particular unit. So they're also vetted by two different. Yes. Yes. So what happens is, is you have people that have either applied for and didn't get it or just don't believe they should have one. And it's their God-given right to its public land that they don't need a permit.

So you have a lot of those people. And I've worked probably four or five different illegal guiding cases, Montana and Idaho. So it is common as egregious as going in the park. I don't think that's very common. Yeah. All indications were this individual had a pretty high success rate of elk, whether they come off the park or not, we don't know. I think me and Brent would have a pretty high success rate. Yeah, no doubt.

We've never elk hunted. Well, Brent has. Now back east, we have some guiding. But it's a process. and the sad thing is there are some really good outfitters across this country in the big game world. I mean some, and it's a legitimate use.

And people like that gives the guiding a bad name. It takes away opportunities. This took away, you know, took an elk out of there that could have very well been on public land and probably went back and forth from public to park, public to park where it was taken. So people like that need to be taken out of the gene pool, so to speak. I don't think we've got that large of a problem with guiding and illegal outfitting in the east.

I've worked a few small cases in the east, but it is guiding is big business out west. Yeah. Do you have any idea how many elk this guy ended up taking? You know, I think that particular year there was four or five, and that was another reason that we that we took the case as far as we did and some things we didn't talk about on the previous podcast you know a lot of questions came up you know internally about the taking of that of that elk and what a lot of people don't understand back then you didn't have a lot of technology as far as documenting what happened you know a video camera was all we had

and there are times when you would take a case if you're working undercover and a defense attorney can chew you up and say that's not really what happened. And let's just play that scenario out and say that I didn't kill an elk. We come back and we write up a case report. The U.S. attorney's office draws up an indictment and we go to a grand jury and we indict this guy, and we charge him for illegal guiding on public land. He hires an attorney, and they get me on the stand and said, did you kill an elk? No.

So is it not true that he probably didn't have any intentions of you killing an elk there? Well, no, he gave me all the intentions in the world. Well, it's my word against his then. But the big thing on this case, and we planned it that way eventually, that if we did take an elk, no matter where it was at, if we had to take an elk, I was not going to take possession of the meat. I was going to let him take possession of it. That allowed that meat to go back to his ranch.

And that gave us, what law enforcement calls, probable cause, to draw up a search warrant. That gets us into that man's house, and we're able to articulate in the search warrant. We're not only looking for the crime that we know is there because of my testimony, but other crimes associated. to that type of activity and illegal hunting,

so we're able to get other clients' names, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So that particular year, I think he had taken five or six different elk. Just that one season. Yes. So that gives a lot of backbone to actually killing an elk. Yes.

I mean, because I told him, I have not heard, Russ and I talked about this before we put this out, is that, you know, it's possible somebody could be like, oh, you know, this guy shot an elk illegally, probably had a great hunt, probably got the horns hanging in his house. I mean, you know, just stupid, something stupid. And I tried to be clear in the podcast that like this was very calculated.

And he tried not to kill one, but he had to. And we've talked about that in other parts. When we did the RT Stewart episodes doing undercover work, R.T. talked about like, if you have to take an animal. And he's like, there's legitimate times where you have to take an animal. And anyway, I didn't hear anybody saying, any, giving you any flag for that. But it's interesting. It even gives more meat to it to tell that it was actually a prosecution strategy to have him take the meat back.

You know. If not, we had had a hard time articulating that you needed a search warrant for that man's residence. Yeah. Yeah. Because you were miles away from it. Right. And there was no evidence tying, you know, a violation to that residence. Yeah.

But once that meat went to that residence and he called and confirmed me with me that, hey, I've got your meat and horns, then you've got a reason to go there, you know, and seize that evidence that you know was part of the crime. How long he'd been operating up there? Was it at least? At least 10 or 12 years. Oh, wow. He'd been doing it a while. Could have been as much as 40 or 50 years. Exactly.

Yeah. It seemed like a lot of people like knew before even getting into it that it was illegal, like a lot of the people that he would guide. Did any of those people get in trouble afterwards? Like did they kind of like

backtrack the people that went with them knowingly shooting an elk on the park or just illegally? No. No. And the reason for that is a lot of those people, and he did keep very poor records. So there was very few people.

you know that we could really tie it back to and and it would be really hard because your evidence is gone you're you know you don't have any evidence other than you know maybe something that he had written down in a journal or a logbook so you had no physical evidence of where they were at you know I was able to plot on a map this is exactly where it was you know of all the encounters that I had with elk I was able to plot on on a map as part of the case file. You wouldn't have had any of that, you know, with these other people. So it was very hard.

But it took him out of the business. And I understand he's pretty much out of the business still. Hmm. Interesting. Did he go to jail? No. He was fine very heavily. And he also, I think I failed to mention this on the original podcast,

he had to pay back the restitution for that elk that was taken. That's pretty sporty, wasn't it? Right. And so I think he got like a $10,000 fine, they have $3,000 or $4,000, what they call a replacement cost of the elk. And then he was, I think he was barred for hunting for five or ten years. Hmm. Yeah.

Interesting. Brandon, what stood out to you? What was your, what was the favorite part? I thought about all of, I thought about Russ having to be in the vicinity of that guy. It was this, you have to associate yourself and align yourself that you agree or you condone the things that you absolutely are working to fight against. And then it's a back and forth a lot internally when you're hanging out with these folks and watching what you're doing when you just want to pick up a club and not get them in the back of the head, really. Yeah. And it's just an internal struggle to condone.

or act like you're condoning what's going on and in participating in it and it was the same way in the stuff that I did too and that it was a it's stressful that's where the stress comes in yeah because you're having to just sit there and watch and watch and watch what this stuff's going on with whether it's drugs or or game violations either one you know he's something that you have dedicated your life to protect but you realize then to be part of it and to help and to assist and keeping that stuff out of people's hands or protecting a resource, you've got to get in there and get dirty and get the folks that are doing it. Because if you're not willing to get in there and get them, they're just going to keep doing it. Yeah. You know, so that identified a lot with that. Yeah, I bet you did. You know, it's funny.

I was thinking about Russ coming here today. And just last night, I was, I had the thought, I was just trying to put myself in the mind space that somebody might have to be to work undercover. And it's impossible because, first of all, I've never been in law enforcement. So I don't really know what it's like to carry a gun and put yourself up against, in danger situations with the bad guys. and but I thought what if I had to wake up tomorrow and go into an illegal camp for eight days I'm fixing to go on a hunt a legitimate hunt and you know like what if thanks for the clarification

it was just it kind of scrambled my brain a little bit like what if I had to go on this hunt but it was actually I was pretending and we were going to we were going to this guy was doing bad stuff and I was going to be a part of it's just a weird that's probably the most interesting thing about all this undercover stuff to me is just kind of the mind the head space you got to occupy and uh and anyway any comments on that from either one of you you know britt i don't know if you know it but brent used to work undercover narcotics oh yes i've picked up on that yeah yeah well i'm sure russell tell you got to get in you got to play that part and you can't you can't be that part whatever your undercover profile was you can't be that guy just when you're talking to the target

you got to be that guy when you're fixing breakfast. You got to be that guy when he's asleep and you're sitting at the campfire waiting on him. You got to be that guy the whole time. You know, it's that and there's a period there that your stress level is really high. And that's usually, you know, your first 30 minutes with that person or first hour in that, you know, I'm here for the dude. duration. So, you know, this was going to be a 10-day back country hunt. You know, yeah, I met him one time at the classic. But when you arrive out there to his ranch, you know, and he's, and he's packing his

stock and you're getting ready to go. And, you know, that, that's your stress level right there. You know, has he done any checking on me, you know, is, you know, is everything going to be okay? Right. Yeah. Is this an ambush? Yeah. And, you know, and, you know, and a lot of people will be asking you a lot of questions and you don't know if they're asking your questions that they know the answers to or do you don't know if they're asking questions that it's just in conversations so you don't like he says you don't know what that intention of that conversation is just as you know how to that's interesting you say the first 30 minutes because yeah if you're just trying to make small talk i mean like yeah you get somebody coming with you that you've never met

like if you're the outfitter the illegal outfitter you're like so tell me about your family what How do you do? Right. Oh, really? You're a bricklayer? Well, what kind of stuff? You know, I can imagine in your head, you're thinking, oh, this guy's trying to sniff me out. Right.

So it's. Did you think you, in that situation, would you have visibly, like if your friends had been there with you, could they have told you were nervous? Probably so. Really? Yeah. You know, because the personality that you are when you're undercover is, is, is, it should be different. than you are every day. I mean, it really should.

I mean, that may sound crazy, but you have to be yourself, but then you kind of have to set yourself apart a little bit and not be as talkative. You know, for an example, I, by nature, like to talk, and I'm sorry for that for taking up too much mic time. But really, so I have to make a conscious effort when I would do undercover to shut up. Hmm.

Yeah. If there's no need to talk, don't talk. And I'm sure this man right here can relate to that. It's impossible for Brent to shut up. No. Remember me telling you we was trying to cross the border? I'm like, answer the guy's question and nothing else. Because the first time we went across Clay's like.

Yeah, the first time we crossed into Canada, Brett was like, Clay, you really mess that up. You were chatting that guy. It was like, just answer the question. You don't want to be your friend. Go ahead, Russ, go ahead. But that's true. So I would have to, you know, consciously just kind of be, and on this particular one, I knew that I had to work my way eventually back to a remote guard station, if you will,

independently when it was time to get out of there. So I kind of set myself up that I like spending time alone. You know, I need, you know, if there's a, you know, hey, I. So you would have said that to him. Yeah. Really? How would you plant that without it sounding weird? Well, you know, this is this is this great country.

I've always wanted to come out here. I mean, I'm wanting to kill an out, but man, I really enjoy kind of exploring too. So if I just get out and walk around, is that okay? You know, I don't have to have you with me. I don't even have to carry a gun. You know, I just, man, I like to backpack, look at the, you know, just enjoy what's out. You were making a setting the table for you to be able to go and give a message, which I also really did. You know, so, you know, but see, you just, you know, set up things like that to where you can get time alone, you know.

And back then, I took no recorders. I actually had a back day pack that I carried that had a special kind of hidden zipper in it that had a ledger in it. And I would actually write, you know, making notes at night, you know. Or if you go on a hike by yourself, you make all your notes, you know, what was said, who was in camp, You know, all the pertinent information you needed for that particular day, you know, didn't have GPSs back then, but you know, write it on the map, have a copy of your map in there. And you kept that backpack, you know, with you all the time. And even if anybody did get in it, they couldn't find that little notebook. So, you know, you would set yourself up to where you could get some space to do your documentation.

Interesting. The best thing that, I'm sure it worked the same way with Russ, the best thing that I had going for me is that I had enough money in my pocket that they'd forget just about everything else. What do you mean? They're there to make money. They're not there for you to kill the elk. They want your money. They're greedy, and they didn't care. The quality of drugs that I bought, they didn't care if that was up to what I wanted, you know, supposedly wanted.

All they wanted was them $100 bills. I had in my pocket. I've told the story before on here. I had an informant that was buying drugs for me one time. And he was known informant. He had been an informant for years. He walked up, knocked on the door, and a guy answered the door. He's dead now.

He can say his first name. He said, Leroy, what you want? He said, you know what I'm after? He pulled out a $100 bill, and he said, I know you're working for the police, but you got that money. Come on in. and he sold it to him. And he was right.

He was working for the police. Just that short term. That short, it wasn't a short. It was, he was taking a chance because Leroy had a drug problem too. So he was just rolling the dust that, I know you've been, he was saying, I know you've been an informant before. But I also know that you're buying drugs. So you got the money right now.

I'll take my chance. And he chose poorly. as they say. But, I mean, right or wrong. Oh, yeah. Money's the end result. So what you're saying is you carried around some money. And like if things, maybe the mood of the room was not great, you could.

I just pay my money, get my stuff and walk out the door. Or I say, I got the money. You don't want to sell it to me the guy down the street. Oh, okay, okay, okay, okay. Yeah. Yeah. It's a big motivator. Wow.

On Blood Trails, the stories don't end when the hunt is over. They just get darker. I've seen something in the road. I instantly thought it was a sleeping bed. And there was a full of blood. Oh, my God, he doesn't have a hit. Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors. Where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce, and the truth gets buried under brush and silence.

Indications were he should be right there. but he wasn't. This season, we're going deeper. From cold case files to whispered suspicions, from remote mountains to frozen backwards. Each story begins in the wilderness and ends in darkness. Because out here, there are no witnesses, no cameras, just fragments and the people left behind trying to piece them back together.

He's not an honest person. He's incapable of being honest. Somebody somewhere knows something. I'm Jordan Sillers. Season 2 of Blood Trails premieres April 16th. Follow now on Apple, Iheart, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Here's the topic that Russ and I have talked about off-air is that it's like we're talking about, and I enjoy talking about it, is this stuff that kind of goes on behind the scenes. and but the undercover work that Russ was doing and YouTube Brent is kind of like old school

it's different now like it was we talked about you know like could this be detrimental to law enforcement to like tell these stories or something and what would you say to that Russ well you know first off the height of my career was there wasn't a lot of the technology that we have today. Right. And, you know, for listeners who are not aware of the U.S. Forest Service, you know, undercover was not a huge thing we did every day. And I don't even know if we covered this in the previous podcast, but that was just part of my job. You know, I had meth lab cases on National Forest. I'd have to work. Wildfire, arson, timber theft cases. You know, the overt investigations was part of my job, whatever duty station I was at.

So, you know, the undercover is something I kind of fell into, as we discussed in the earlier podcast. But at the era that I fell into it, you didn't have Facebook. You didn't have the social media. You didn't have to have the backstops that you had to have today. You know, you would work through the respective state that you were in and get an undercover driver's license, undercover. You had an undercover social security number. You know, you'd have all that. You'd have a little bit of criminal history on your driver's license.

You'd have just the normal backstops that you'd have. And you'd always use a profession that you had something that you could talk about. And the brickland was unnatural for me that I could discuss brick. And I actually laid some brick before on some undercover jobs. And so I couldn't survive in today's world of technology doing undercover. There's just no way. Yeah. No way.

So it's like talking about a way of doing things that really doesn't exist anymore. Right. I realize there's still undercover work that goes on, but it's just so vastly different. It's different. It's more technical. There's undercover going on every day in the world of drugs, in the world of wildlife, and the world of gun trafficking. It's going on today.

You know, right now somewhere. there's somebody being undercover. Yeah. And I commend those people that are doing it. Yeah. Because they are far more advanced than I was, you know, 25 years ago. I can tell you, hats off to them. It's a new era of people out there.

And, you know, just a lot more has to go into it. And you know what? I think I actually have, well, I may have heard a smidge of criticism back when I was doing R. T. Stewart episodes with people saying, you know what, I don't like that our government does undercover stuff. Like that, that was a, that was something that they just didn't like that it was even a thing. Well, you know, I want to tell you something. In law enforcement, you're always, whatever agency you work for, you're looking for the edge to put the bad person in you're not looking for the edge to make someone look bad.

You don't single out a user group. You don't single out, you know, you don't profile and look for a specific group of people. You look, what is the problem on how can we address it? And a lot of times, you know, it might be high visibility patrol. Well, if you've tried high visibility patrol and you've tried, you know, community education, And you've tried going into the communities and doing special presentations at civic clubs. And you still have this particular problem going on.

Then what tool is left? And a lot of times the undercover is the last tool. You know, the Yellowstone case, they had been getting reports of this guy, you know, for two or three years, but didn't not have any way to approach it. Yeah, name one other way you could have caught him. Exactly. And so, you know, there's a lot of that that you have to consider. Right.

And it's, and you'll hear entrapment. Right. Yeah. Well, you know, this wasn't a particular under, I'll not get into this case because it's a whole other pretty lengthy story. But, you know, you got to prove intent. You know, that person, their intent was the break. And you can't give them that idea. You can't plant the idea.

Hey, I'd like to go kill an elf and yell. No, no, no. You can't plant the idea. It's just like, you know, he couldn't, as an undercover, couldn't walk around town and say, I got some illegal drugs. You want to buy them. Yeah, right. That's a no-no.

But he could let it be known that, you know, hey, if anybody wants drugs, he, you know, he, he back doors, fares out a way to get it out where the people approach him. him. He don't approach to people, you know, unless he's got information about this person that has predisposed themselves. Right. And, and that's a lot of legal technicalities. There is. A lot of, a lot of legal stuff. You know, we had a case in North Georgia working with Georgia DNR, a guy that was illegal guiding hog hunts, wild hog hunts. And we, we had a really tough time on that one, but through the help of some great Georgia DNR Rangers, we were able to make that case,

and that guy predisposed himself by advertising in a local area, you know, his hog hunts. And so we were able to approach him, you know, but he had predisposed himself by advertising, if that makes sense. So, you know, you can't just plant the idea. That's entrapment. It's when a law enforcement officer plants the idea.

it has to be the idea of the other person. Yeah. Well, I think there's value, like my response to people that would have been like, man, I don't like undercover and kind of like saying that it, yeah, might be entrapment or infringement upon, you know, privacy and stuff like that. I'm like, it's real easy to not be investigated by undercover agents and that's just obey the law. I mean, like, it's pretty, like, if you're like,

like Barr's saying he walked out on the road and there was a game board and we're like, oh, wow, what'd you do? And he was like, well, I wouldn't do anything wrong. Did everything I was doing before. Now, there's one exception to this rule. And that's this guy, I know he's working me undercover right now in the long game. Ten years, you ain't found nothing yet, have you? Stay away from my backpack.

That's all I can say. I got a hidden zip. No, I think there's, I think there's value in the world knowing. that we take wildlife crimes serious enough in this country. And I mean, obviously, drug crimes and other things that are just even more blatant. I mean, you know, there's some people, when we talk about all this law enforcement, there's some people that I've heard that say, hey, sending people to prison or these very stiff fines for wildlife.

Like, is it really that big a deal? I mean, there's people that are, you know, doing all kinds of other heinous crimes. Is wildlife crime that big a deal? And I mean, my answer is emphatically, yes, it is. As a culture, we have said that wildlife management is something that we value. Well, and that's very true. And I don't know how many times that I've heard, you know, why aren't you out here working on the real crime? Right.

You know, why aren't you working on a real crime? Well, you know, I do, you know, the meth lab cases, the murders on National Farm. We work those crimes. But you know what? You know, when it comes to conservation and enforcement of our game laws, we have to partner with these state agencies and work on it or we'll end up on with, you know, it's protecting our rights. You also, you know, you swear an oath to enforce the laws, not some of them.

Yeah, and it's all of them. It's like, you know, okay, here's the code of federal regulations. Which law do you not want me to enforce? Exactly. You know, do you want me to, you know, to quit enforcing this one or this one? Right. And, you know, and a lot of them are more egregious once you get into it than you think. And it wasn't an undercover case, but I could tell you a case in East Tennessee where a guy was trapping live bear and taking them back to his property at his house where he had about a 20 by 24 enclosure that he was.

staging bear and dog fights. And when we were able to get enough for a search warrant for that residence, we brought in a specialist from a very well-respected university and with a very well-respected history of bear DNA. And we're able to prove that over a period of time that there was, I think it was 20-something different, bear had been in that pen. Oh, wow. So, you know, work in one case, how many bears died or was run through that type of,

just for the sake of entertainment and betting on bear and dog fights? Really? So, wow. Wow. You know, so you have to work them to find out how egregious some of them are. Yeah. And it's just, I'm sure Brent can tell you you might buy the nickel bag, but that's not what you're looking for.

No, no. no exactly you're trying to get to the root of the problem every person's just a stepping stone to the next one yeah interesting interesting

well I thoroughly enjoyed all these stories in the the Appalachola tree bandit story that came out if you're listening to this recording

it's already out but it was the extra drop Yeah, I'm listening to it at Happy Bear. I didn't realize that was part of the homework. Well, no, no, no. You just graduated school. I'm done. Wasn't the higher education. That was a great one too.

Yeah, it was. Boy, that, I think that's one of the ones I enjoyed the most, just because, man, it just seemed like the trap was set when you went to finally arrest those guys, man. what a what i mean like dominoes all the way down i could just see russ pulling out going i don't know but i got to go driving a ugly dougly rent a car but uh yeah and there's there's one that could have never worked with today's technology yeah yeah yeah they was one text message away yeah losing all that's an example of that so cash what do you think about your grandpa nobody ever told you he was such a cool guy, did they? No.

He often tells me some crazy stories. What's your favorite story that your grandpa tells? Do you have one you remember? Well, I have one that I remember. It's not exactly my favorite. It's just okay. I have one that I remember because it's like the most craziest. And it's about this guy that pooped in the back of his car.

It looks like we're going to have another episode The car pooping bandit And actually that that was associated to a rainbow family member Oh really? Yes, yes Rainbow family makes full circle And I had forgotten That's probably been two years since I've told him that story

He always asked me to tell him police stories and I'm about run out of them. You just make them up here. No, no, but that was true. He was at a National Rainbow Gathering and was arrested and put in the back of a Crown Vic completely unclosed and having to be transported to jail and just decided to defecate in the back of the car

and spread it all everywhere just to get back at me. Oh, my. This happened in your vehicle? Yes, yes. Oh, wow. So anyway, it's just a... That's not what a guy expects. No, that wasn't what they expected when they go through the Sally Port either.

When the guy's processing him was... Yikes. So how did you come up with that one? My goodness. Well, that one was the archives. Well, geez, if that's your favorite story, what's your second favorite story? He can't tell it on air. Yeah, he's like, we're going to hold that one back.

I thought he was going to tell about us going to hiking or something, or to the waterfall or something fun. but anyway. I'm glad you're paying attention. Isaac, any questions you got? Cameraman back there? No, I thought it was phenomenal series of stories. Isaac liked.

Let's interpret. Isaac liked the stories. Go ahead. Can't have them that lifestyle. Not good for that. Very thankful for it. Yep. Yep.

Yep. Well, No, Russ, it's been a pleasure. Pleasure to get to know you, man. I mean, and we're going to stay in touch for sure. Just, no, it's a, you're a unique, unique guy in that Russ is a good storyteller. Yep. He's got great stories.

And just the integrity that you see inside of Russ. When Misty listened to Russ, that's what she picked up immediately before she met him, was just like, this is a good guy. But anyway, yeah, thanks for all your years of service and what you did. I think I'm grateful just to be able to have the open window to peer in and see that from your perspective. I think there's something to that. I mean, just being willing to talk. Because, I mean, not everybody would be.

And I think it takes, I don't know, I think it's good that we talk about this stuff. I think it's valuable. I don't remember if I said it. But part of my, I mean, any story that I do on Bear Grease, like I'm thinking about it from every possible way that I know how to think about it, even critically, like, is this store, is there, is there some negative to telling this story? Because anything that I'm going to talk about, like, I want to get behind it fully. And I do like to talk about controversial stuff at times.

I mean, you know. We've noticed. And, and, and, uh, but I think there's value in people knowing that this is happening. Like it, it sets a, it continues to, to show the, the ethic of this country is that we live by the rule of law. Like, you go to a lot of countries and other places and people don't stop at red lights. People don't obey traffic laws. I mean, that's a big thing in the world in a lot of places. Here, 99% of the time, if you turn loose in America, on a lonely country road and there's a stop sign,

most of the time they're going to stop. They may do a roll and stop. Well, this is it at night. Then you cut your lights off if you don't see you. Yeah, there's exceptions to this rule. But the principle I'll stand by is that we are people that have an ethic that we want laws. We respect law. We respect laws.

And there's obviously exceptions to that, yada yada. But point being, this makes us realize that there's, it puts teeth behind that. And honestly, keeps us all honest in a way. I mean, if I know, and not that I would be necessarily tempted to break the law, but if a person was, if he heard this story, he'd be like, man, I got to, you know, there are people working to enforce these laws. I just think there's value in that. Yeah, absolutely.

I think there's value in it. Brent and I are going to be in Venice, Louisiana on a meat eater experiences trip. I think... They're going to let me take my trout line down there? Yeah, for sure. Let's catch some redfish with the trot line. That's what I'm talking about.

I think they've got a few spots left. The trips aren't cheap. Brent and I, I mean, it'd be nice if it was like, 500 bucks for like a four-day trip, all-food, lodging, fishing, guiding, but it's not, it's more expensive than that. But there's some spots left for that trip. If you want and you can get it. Yeah.

Yep. It's a fully guided fishing trip is what it is. But we'll be there with some of the other Meteor crew. It'll be fun. I wanted to show everybody this to. Meteor just came out with a collab with a co-lab with Montana Knife Company. They call it a Flat Tail. that would be perfect for cutting that apple up.

Yeah. Yeah. Show us how it works, Josh. Come on. Come on. Don't cut your hand out. I'm going to take that. I'm going to take that goat hunting.

I didn't cut anything with it. My God, man. Dropped it in the floor. I think you can buy that on the online. One of my greatest memories of my grandfather is eating apples with them. Cutting them. Well, Russ and Cash, thank you so much for coming. I hope you all have had a good time.

and cash take care of old stubby larry for us oh nothing well we want to thank you and the whole crew because it's a it's a it's a well-worthy project that you work on you do an excellent job at it so you've exposed a lot of i'm going to go ahead and say this and this is not a promo clay's not asked me to say this but he is uh he's reconnected me with a lot of people that I hadn't talked to in 25 or 30 years from all over the country. Oh. That's looked me up and that I worked with that I worked with because I'm not a social media guy,

and they found ways to look me up and reconnected and got a lot of new, what I would say, interest in the agency, which was one of the things that I really wanted to get across is because the U.S. Forest Service is kind of a forgotten agency. It's a great agency. Got a lot of different functional areas within that agency, not just law enforcement.

And it was a great career. And I appreciate the exposure to the agency. Yeah. Right on. Well, we appreciate it. And I hope you'll have a safe trip back to Tennessee. Thank you. Last spring, Clay Newcomb and I collaborated with Jason Phelps at Phelps game calls

in building each of our own favorite turkey diaphragms, called prime cuts. Now I'm going to tell you, I love mine because it's easy to use. I'm not going to go, I'm not going to win a turkey calling contest. It's just not going to happen. But when I run this call,

I get the sounds that gobblers are looking for. I have a great turkey hunting track record. If you go listen to real turkeys out in the woods, they're not going to win calling contests, right? That's who I listen to. I can make those sounds on my cut. I also hunt with Phelps's cut, and I hunt with Clay's cut,

because they're all three great cuts. Check out prime cuts at Phelps gamecalls.com. I think you'll be glad you did. And you'll find out that the Steve Ronella cut is an easy-to-use cut for beginning callers who just want to start making good turkey noises and getting action. This is an I-Heart podcast, guaranteed human.