Bear Grease - Ep. 263: Render - Rich Froning, Tennessee Vols, and Osceola

Episode Date: October 23, 2024

On this special episode of the Bear Grease Render, join host Clay Newcomb and This Country Life Podcast’s Brent Reaves along with Meateater’s Garrett Long and Hunter Spencer from the Meateater Tailgate Tour in Knoxville, Tennessee. Special guest Rich Froning of Mayhem Hunt talks about their mission to emphasize fitness in the hunting realm.  Listen along as the conversation heats up as they discuss the first episode of Bear Grease on the life of Osceola and the connection with members of the Bear Grease Hall of Fame. If you have comments on the show, send us a note to [e-mail] Connect with Clay and MeatEater Clay on Instagram MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, and Youtube Clips MeatEater Podcast Network on YouTube Shop Bear Grease MerchSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. First Lights fieldware collection is made for the work that happens long before opening day and continues when the season ends. Products built for early mornings, full days and real use. Hard wearing where they need to be versatile where it matters. No shortcuts. Just gear designed for the work that earns the season.

Built to perform, built to last. Check out. First Light's new field. Worldware Gear at firstlight.com. My name is Clay Newcomb, and this is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called the Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual Bear Grease podcast. Presented by FHF Gear, American Made, Purpose Built, Hunting and Fishing Gear that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. We're in Knoxville, Tennessee on Meat Eaters game day.

I have with me this panel of expert analysts of college football, duck hunting, crossfit, country living. We got it all here today, folks. Man, I feel like I'm on ESPN. Yeah. We are in downtown Knoxville, Tennessee within sight of where the Tennessee balls are going to roll over. the tide here in about five or six hours. We are at the Meat Eater tailgate tour, which has been a ton of fun. I have a very unique group of guests here with me today.

I'll introduce them from right to left. I've got right here Hunter Spencer from Meat Eater. Man, old Tennessee ball himself lives in Virginia. Yep. He's spying on him. Hunter, anything that you see that is graphic. graphic design, most, almost everything is Hunter Spencer, including this cool horn getting grilled.

I love that. But Hunter's... Bird looks really confused right now. I thought I was sitting next to Josh Highpool, honestly. I had that earlier today. It does look like Josh Highpool. I see it. I don't even know who that is.

He's a coach of the balls. Oh, really? The head coach of the balls. I thought you got him out here. Well, this is Hunter Spencer. He's busy. Here we have Josh. Josh Bird.

Bird. Bird. Bird. And you work with... He runs my ham hunt for us. Yep. Yeah. So I kind of got to introduce you guys together.

In tandem. This is Rich Froning. Yep. Introduced to me as the most fit man in America, which... Formally. Formally. I'm retired now. Let's go.

Let's go. World. Not just America. In the world. In the world. World. Are you being serious? Formally.

Okay. Fittest man in the world. Let's go. Hey, man. Yeah. I love it. Play was second. That's right.

Well, all I was going to say was, I mean, you know, we squirrel hunted yesterday and he couldn't lose me. I could tell he was trying. We were just creeping. We were just creeping. Squirrels too. Squirrels too, yeah. Yeah, they lost us. So, yeah, tell me, how would you introduce yourself?

I competed in CrossFit for 12, 13 years, 13 years if you count COVID. One a couple times as an individual, won a couple times on a team. I own a CrossFit gym in Cookville, Tennessee, and now trying to bring fitness to the hunting space. That's our big thing. We got into hunting. Real passionate about it, probably the last 10 years. And so, yeah, that's what we're doing now.

Awesome. Love hunting. And so. Let me come back to you guys right after Brent. Brent Reeves. And then the guy who's never been, I don't think you've been on the render. This is Garrett Long.

Almost everything that's going on at Meat Eater and even with Bear Grease, this guy's involved with. but kind of behind the scenes. So I'm really upset that you're here, Garrett. Really? Man, it's upsetting, huh? Garrett's like, he's my boss. He's running the show.

Man, I think the coolest thing I've done at Meat Eater, though, is I actually hired Hunter. Yeah. Really? Yeah. He was your highlight. He all started. Wait a minute.

You hired me. Yeah. Whoa. That's do good things. I agree. That was calculated. That was the best thing. So he knows what he's doing.

Yeah. No, tell me, like, in the hunting space, it's clear that, you know, in the last, at least 10 years, like fitness has come up on the radar of something that we should all be, you know, as hunters, a lot of physicality. Yeah, which is pretty cool because I think the narrative for a lot of the hunting community has not been something, you know, that would be fitness related. And then when we started, you know, Western hunts and elk hunting kind of came on to the scene. And it's like, hey, a big limiting factor of success is just being able to get places. Then you started seeing, you know, people marketing to the hunting. Marketing to be outfutness. Yeah, so we talked about this a little bit yesterday.

My kind of background is like originally I was born in Michigan. I've lived in Tennessee for 30 plus years. So White Tail is kind of, for me, when I started hunting, White Tail was tough because it's sitting still. ADHD or ADD or something. Something's not right. There's something a little off, you know. And so that was tough for me. Is that true, Josh? Something's not right.

And so I got into turkey hunting first, and turkey hunting I fell in love with. And so, you know, it's up down. We run and gun a lot, you know, in Tennessee. And so I then, somebody introduced me to elk hunting. And from then on, I was hooked. And so now I've kind of like made it back to now White Tail is a passion too. So in that whole process, you know, I was competing and training. And I'm like, man, there's such a need for.

like a little bit of science-backed hunting fitness preparation. You know, there are some other ones out there and good ones out there. But I feel like we've, you know, we've got 15 years. I was an X strength and conditioning coach. I have degree in exercise science. I've competed for years. And I married the two with a passion that I have hunting in the last, you know, 10 years, I would say, where we got super serious.

And then Western hunting in the last six or seven that I've been like next level passionate about. So, yeah, we just kind of saw the need there. I was like, hey, I'm going to be hunting a lot anyway. I'm going to be doing these workouts to prepare myself for hunting. Why not just offer them to people online? So that's kind of where Mayhem Hunt started. We have CrossFit Mayhem Mayhem, and we've done that for 12 or 15 years, and we'll still keep that up.

But, man, Mayhem Hunt, and just hunting has become a huge passion of mine. And I want guys, girls, to never have to question, hey, should I go after that animal? Because I'm going to get it out. Or there's just no second thought. When we go out, we're like, all right, I don't care if it's 1,000 feet up. We're going to get there. We're going to get to it and get that animal.

and then we're going to get it out. So that's just, you know, we want people more confidence of anything of like, hey, I can go out there and do this, right? Yeah, yeah. You know, to me, the most positive thing about when you're combining physical fitness and then hunting, which we're all passionate about, is like, being physically fit is, like, a good idea for life in general, whether you're elk hunting or not. And so it's, again, just one of those, like, tangible and positive things that

comes from being involved in the outdoors. Well, and then, I mean, there's such a crossover, too, of like, hey, you're harvesting your own meat. It's healthy. We know where it came from. It's not going to a store. It's not overly processed. It's not given all these antibiotics and stuff.

So, you know, if we can get this healthy, clean meat and then also fuel ourselves for these, it just, it makes sense. And then, you know, we've talked about it, too. Like, my personality, I'm just a competitor, right? So, like, my whole life has been, I'm one of 32 first cousins on my mom's side. 25 are boys and everything we did was a competition and so that's just who I am right so I competed for years and then when I got done I'm like man I still need to compete and still have that and hunting I mean we talked about it yesterday it's the original competition right like us versus that animal and so for me

I feel like that draw of just the competition side of it is just who I am and then you got the like team aspect of it I you know all these guys that go on solo hunts good for you I like you know if I've got one other person and there's a team and we're kind of like figuring out a plan there's like just there's something to it and so all of it what i've done in the past marries super well to what we're doing now and man i just it just blessed to be where we're at man i love it love it i'm trying to garret let's let's combine our heads here hunter brent what what would you ask the fittest man in the world if he were sitting by you like what intelligent question would you them like because um it's going to take all

listen listen here's the best analogy if i was if i was sitting next to the owner of the finest mule in america i would have a hundred questions for you hey father of the american mule who is it george washington okay nice hey come on dude sorry who are you talking to too easy sorry it's like who invented crossfit all right all right great last well he's already said his motivation and that that would have been my my question motivation motivation motivation motivation the motivator what it was you know the cool part two is you know my kids so you guys have seen my kids are around all the time birds kids are out here too you got to be in shape to keep up with them well that but i want to impact like you know i've never once told my kids hey let's go do a workout

but they see me and lakeland will go down there my all of my kids will be like hey i'm a workout with you know and they're doing their own thing we're not loading them up with a barbell we're not like making them do anything but they want to do it so then you're like i'm doing a workout and i just look over and they're doing it right well then the hunting now and too like I've been out six or seven times and my kids have been with me five of the times and Trice was with me when we harvested a dough the other another other afternoon morning and he was fired up and my you know like it's awesome it's there they want to be with me and that's what I want right so I want to impact them from the physical

side of like hey want them to be in better shape and and just you know a lifestyle of fitness but then also the outdoors like it's it's just in a good spot right yeah I think to your question We talked about a little bit yesterday, but there's workout programs out there for getting outside and everything. But, man, and I've been fortunate to work out a decent amount in my life. Oh, really? I never would have guessed. Pull them sleeves up.

They, uh, thank you. But they break you. They break me, right? Like, I, I love, I get started. I find myself getting started. And then three weeks in, like, it is a lifestyle that, and maybe I'm just not tough enough. I just like can't continue. My body is breaking down.

How old are you? 33. Yeah, that's accurate. No, I'm just kidding. Just kidding. But I think like, I think my question is, is like, if you're not a dude that's already just getting it, like, how much is too much? Right? Like, what is the proper level of training?

If a guy's coming out west on his first Elkhunt, like, is it just seven days a week to, like, to failure every day? And that's the mentality you should have? or is there a middle ground to get you out in the field? Yeah, and so I feel like that's something that we have or we've kind of like, you know, we've got the background of we have the CrossFit gym that we've had for 15 years. And, you know, we've got our youngest member we talked yesterday

is five years old and our oldest is 83 or 84 years old. So like we have the full range. And so we've been able to see, hey, you know, what can some people do? And like you're at a very entry level. And we've kind of on what we're doing now is like putting a little bit of science behind that. instead of just hammering guys all the time, which you still need to do, right?

You've still got to, like, prepare because there is a mental aspect of it. Anybody who's been out west, like, you've got to be able to grind because there are, you know, those days where it's up, down physically, but also mentally and emotionally. And so you've got to have those days. But then also, like, we know that four or five weeks is about as hard as you can push. And then you maybe need to take a week where you just kind of, hey, like, let's move still. you know, starting out maybe three or four days a week. And then, you know, you could bump it up. We were talking yesterday.

I like to work out seven days a week. It's my mentality. It's almost like a, it's something I have to do, right? It's just clear my head. It's got to get that hit, whatever it is. But for most guys, starting out three days a week, it's going to be a lot, you know? And so you can, once you do a couple weeks of that, maybe add a fourth day. Hey, four days too many.

Like, there is, and that's one of the things we're trying to do is like, hey, we're going to build a community where guys can get on the, there, girls can get on there and talk and feel like, hey, you know, hey, this is what I'm doing. I'm feeling like this, you know, any help there. So that's what we're trying to do is take the kind of approach we've done with CrossFit of like, hey, we know our program's the best, but also the community side of like, hey, let's, you know, ask some questions and do some stuff like that, too. Yeah, and the Thursdays for us is usually an off-ish day.

Thursdays and Sundays. Yeah. So, and to answer the question as a normal average, 43-year-old. guy. Like working out with him, I know he works out two days a week. I can usually, two times a day. I can go Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, usually and work out with him. But by Thursday, I'm probably just taking off completely. Just because, I mean, I can't do it anymore. You know, like my body's worn down. I need a day. I need just a rest day completely. So it is listen to your body. But we do take Thursdays, Saturdays, and as like active recovery. And then Sundays, as

usually just completely off. So we have that broken in there pretty good. All right, I got a question. So I'm thinking about like the audience. I have a football question for you about tonight, coach. I'm going to put on first down. They'll never expect it. So trying to like maybe compare it to hunting.

So if you got somebody that's never hunted and they've got aspirations to be a big game hunter, you kind of figure out a path that they'll start small game winner. So I'll say the same thing with getting fit or a better version of you. what's that first step look like doing something doing anything okay moving three four days a week you know i when you know when i was early on in crossfit i was like you have to do crossfit the only way to get fitter is doing crossfit i'm not that mentality anymore like i think crossfit or some variation like ours isn't is a little bit of crossfit there's a lot less gymnastics a lot more grunt work a little bit less super high intensity all the time because that does

wear you out. But man, it's just getting started. Doing something is better than nothing. And then, you know, like just momentum, man. It's day after day. And, you know, I, my personal kind of values are faith, family fitness, right? And so every day, I try to sit down at the end of the day and be as objective as possible. How did I do faith-wise? Did I get in the word, whatever, did I do good? And try to give myself, you know, one through 10. Same with family. Did I spend time? Did I spend time? quality time and then fitness and then short memory when you do good because next day it's a new day and short memory when you do bad as well because then you got to just like hey we got to reset today it's fitness all that stuff is like it just compounds right so it's all about momentum and just get do something

right yeah 20 minute walk you know do that a couple days a week add 30 minutes or add a little bit of weight whatever you want to do you know i think i think uh a lot of times people are including me are intimidated by guys that are really good that are kind of the leaders in the space. I mean, it's like we're not having, we're not having, you know, somebody that's not good at this, like being the spokesman for fitness. It's always somebody like you. And sometimes it's hard to be like, well, I can't be a professional or I can't. And I appreciate what you said because, I mean, that's kind of the way that I think about fitness. I don't talk about fitness, Right.

But it's like something that's high on my mind is to just do something, you know. And I do some running, do some, in the last two years I've done some. Yeah, we talked yesterday. It's just pretty disciplined, you know, three, four times a week at a gym doing Stairmaster. Just because I'm 45. 100%. And, man, I feel my body just kind of like slowing down. You said the strength was starting to fall off?

Yeah, yeah. And like just doing something is better than nothing. I can tell you the frustrating thing with running with Clay is he's one of those guys at half a mile in. He goes, God, I'm tired. And you're like, oh, you're tired. Good. And you're like, okay, I'm kind of tired to you. And then a mile in, he's like, oh, I'm tired.

And like, three miles in, he's like, oh, I'm tired. You're like, when are you going to stop, man? And he just keeps grinding. He, him and Yannis, they burned me one day on the mountain. We went for a little run before a go-to-market meeting. and I hung with them for like, it was a lot, for me it was a long run. It was a 10 mile run, I think. I hung with them for like eight.

And finally, I'm like, I got to go to the bathroom. I'm tired. I got to tie my shoes. I got to do something other than run. I need an excuse. I got to go home. Yeah. Yep.

Hey, I want to, let's talk about football for a minute. Now, Coach. Hunter, coach. Yeah. You went to the University of Tennessee. Yep. And what did you study there? Art.

Art. But you're from Virginia. Correct. But you're big balls, man. Big time. And your wife? I suffered through, yeah, and my wife went here for veterinary. Yeah.

She became a veterinary. So, I mean, like, what's it like? What's it like to be wearing the orange? Oh, it's good, especially on a day like today. I mean, this is third Saturday in October. That'd get any bigger. So is, we need a Saturday like we had in 22. Okay.

Yeah. So what will they do if they beat Alabama today? Like, I've heard it. said twice now. The goal post will come down. You think so again? In the water? It could be. Okay. Okay, so we're right here on the Tennessee River. Because we got the playoffs sort of locked. If you win this. If we win this, still got to play Georgia. We still got to play Georgia, but if you can go 10 and 2. You've got an SEC guy right here. Yeah, you go 10 and 2, you've got a good shot. I'll give you that. Making it. We, how late is the Georgia game? I'm looking over at

his shirt right now. We lost. Let's go. We got one of those losses there, so we were hoping it would just be Alabama and Georgia. How late is the Georgia game? That's the hard part, too, is you've got to time your losses correctly, you know? I think it's a night. Is it a night game today or is it the same time? No, I'm saying, like, when do you guys play Georgia?

Oh, it's at Georgia? I think it's a day game. Oh, at Georgia. When in the season? What in the season, sorry. We've got to buy next week. I think Kentucky, then I think Georgia. That's early enough.

What I thought was cool is that if they, you know, sometimes when they win, tear down the goalpost, bring it to the Tennessee river and throw the goal post in the river. No kidding. Right out there.

What did they lose? That would be the second time because Bandy did it to them two weeks ago. Bandy beat Bama and they carried it to the Cumberland. Which is a much further road. I love that.

It's much further walk. I was thinking about cropy structure down on the bottom. And we've got a 102,000 people. Yeah. When they stormed the field. They had like 50.

Yeah. Topps. So they covered like half of the field when they stormed. Yeah. Oh, that's great. That's great. Last spring, Clay Newcomb and I collaborated with Jason Phelps at Phelps game calls and building each of our own favorite turkey diaphragms called prime cuts.

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going to win calling contests, right? That's who I listen to. I can make those sounds on my cut. I also hunt with Phelps's cut and I hunt with Clay's cut because they're all three great cuts. Check out Prime Cuts at Phelpsgamecalls.com.

I think you'll be glad you did and you'll find out that the Steve Rinella cut is an easy-to-use cut for beginning callers who just want to start making good turkey noises and getting action. Brett, what kind of shirt are you wearing there? Oh, well, this is cash. What were you doing two weeks ago? Two weeks ago, I was celebrating.

Were you at the game? I was not. Do you know who they're playing today? They're playing L.S. Okay. You got an L.S. You were over here. Really?

Oh, yeah. I'm from Louisiana. He didn't take you were a communist. But I'm welcome. He's French. I'm from that's literally all. Oh, wow. Well, I'm sorry. That was all good. We'll see.

We're glad you're here. We get one opportunity. Every now and then, a blind hog literally finds a acre. Literally. And that's what we did two weeks ago. Tennessee was our acre. Well, during baseball season, I'd send him text all the time when Tennessee was winning. I get everything sarcastic back.

So as soon as we lost Arkansas, I just, I almost wore my Notre Dame out of my God. I almost wore my Notre Dame baseball jersey here just for, but I didn't. Didn't. Because last time we were here. Yeah. Yeah. Now, Rich, but you're not a Tennessee fan. No, I'm a Notre Dame fan.

My grandpa went to Notre Dame. My family's Catholic and Irish, so I've been stuck with Notre Dame my whole life. So even though you've been there for 30 years. Yeah, it's been rough, you know. Yeah, no, I mean, I tried to get behind Tennessee when they were bad for a while because I could tolerate the fans. And then as soon as they started winning again, I was like, man, you guys are just obnoxious, you know? That's the hard part. Like, you know, we went through a hard time, bro.

I mean, I'm a Notre Dame fan and a Detroit sports fan, so don't talk to me about hard times. I've had 37 years of hard times. Rich, you've got to be careful. We've still got to get out of here, man. That's true, that's true. You know, the good thing about being from Arkansas, and this is true, we have no professional sports teams. That's true. We have one bigger Division I school.

There are other Division I schools, but without a doubt, everybody in our kids. Arkansas is rooting for the razorbacks. Like when I think about Alabama, having a divided state, it's kind of weird to me to think that you would have that kind of vitriol against like people in your own state, you know, with like Alabama and Auburn and all this. But in Arkansas, man, that's all we got. And you got John Daly and golf for a long time. We had him for a while.

Still got him. I mean, he's still there. Yeah, yeah. But not. So as you all know, we usually on the render, and we'll today, we talk about the last podcast that came out. Is anybody else got anything else they want to say before we talk about Osceola? Can't bring up that cash shirt?

It's hot. No, no, I keep that down, buddy. There's no air moving in here. Keep that air. Keep that air. Keep that. Yeah, I told Hunter had been cool if we were at like Florida State. Oh, that would have doubled.

Yeah, would have doubled is. And then we were talking about Osceola. Yeah. This series, I've been working on it for a long time. I think I read the first book about Osceola like a year and a half ago. And sometimes these series, people ask me a lot of times, like, how long do you work on a series? And they're all different. Sometimes they come together real quick, but then other times they're like long and drawn out.

This one was long and drawn out. And it took us that long to find the right point. people to tell the story. And sometimes I'll start a series that ends with me, well, in my mind, a potential series, and I never do it because I never find the right people. And I actually thought that might be what happened with Osceola. You found the right person. I did.

I did. And even there's going to be a new guest later. We talked to one of the Florida Seminoles. And then I had known Sterling Hardjo for a while, and so I knew he was going to be great. but he's not a historian. He's a Seminole and just kind of knows. I was really interested in how he would have viewed Osceola. And then we found Jake Tiger, this young guy in Oklahoma,

which was a great help. But Patricia Wickman, she's retired and was like, Josh Spillmaker helped me a lot on this one. She was very difficult to find. She's not in the... She seemed kind of like... Yeah, I already... Is she a nice person?

Yeah, yeah, man, she totally is. Like, she, she's... She reprimanded you like twice. I mean, right out of the gate with the ass, right? Put your drink on the coaster. I was like, all right, mom, sorry. I felt like it hit me hard, you know. I was like, whoa, sorry.

Well, I was already... The only reason I could share that with the world, that section, was because of how wonderful a lady she was. Yeah, yeah. She was so excited that I was there. But I really appreciate that kind of frank. Yeah, absolutely. Hey. Yeah, then there's no, like, weird.

Don't do that. Don't do that. No problem. Yes, ma'am. Yeah. Take your shoes off at the door before you come in. I said it. I said it, and I meant it.

I interview a ton of people. And of all different types of people, she was, and I'll go ahead and say it, the most passionate, knowledgeable, and able to communicate about her sphere of expertise than anybody I've ever dealt with. She was sharp. She's been retired for years. I don't want to say how old she is, but, well, I better not do that. No, you get trouble.

She's retired. You get trouble again. But, I mean, she's a sharp as a tack. And I'm still a little bit nervous about, like, how I did. Like, we kind of had to convince her that we were going to handle this story with care. And she was very concerned about us getting it right, you know. You know. Yep.

But she was a wonderful, wonderful lady. And we'll be hearing from her in the next two episodes. I'll go ahead and foreshadow a bit. So the second podcast is basically going to be about the war years of Osceola when he actually retreated into Florida and all the stuff they did was just wild. The third episode is going to be about, I usually don't do this, Rich. I'm doing this for you. For me.

Because you're the world's fittest athlete. Formerly. Formally. We're going to do a whole podcast on Osceola's death. Oh, really? Yeah, because. Like the, what, the aftermath and, or just the, like. There's all kind of, like.

Conspiracy behind it, or? Let me just, I want to give them a spiel like I did you yesterday at dinner. Give him a little bit. Just a little bit. Aalya was, he ended up going to prison. He was tricked by the American government and captured and went to prison. While he was in prison. What did that have been?

No, we can't go there. That's way too far. Keep your mouth shut. All right, my best. Shut up when you're talking to me. He was in prison in South Carolina, and they took him to a play in Charleston, like a Broadway play. And when he went into the play, he was viewed. He's a prisoner of war.

And so they just paraded him on the stage. They took him into the play. No, to watch the play. Oh, okay. All right. And when he was there, they applauded him. This is Osceola, the great king, you know, the great war leader of the Seminoles. We're actively in war.

It would be like us taken, you know, in the 90s taking Saddam Hussein. And, wow. Out of prison to go watch a Broadway play in the American public going, we love this guy. Really? Yeah. So weird. Because he was a global, he had global fame. And that, to me, points back to what I tried to paint a picture of.

is how the American public viewed these Native American leaders, which is such a weird philosophy. Such a weird, muddy. We needed to get rid of them and take their land and do whatever it took to displace them. But we, like, you know, we treated them like comic book characters. Yep. You know, like mythical creatures.

Which is so wild. And then maybe that's all I should give. But he ends up dying in prison. And to this day, there is still an ongoing search for Osceola's head. That's all I'm going to say. You just talking about the portraits to the artist that would stack up? Yeah, yeah, I kind of mentioned it. Yeah, when he was in prison, you know, the currency of the day for people to engage, you know, visually.

They didn't have photographer, they didn't have video, but people painted portraits. Like it was big time. You would have portraits painted of your family and your grandfathers, and that's all they had. Yeah, the greatest artists in the country flocked to South Carolina, to that prison to paint Osceola. In the last days of his life, he spent modeling. He would put on his best clothes and all his accoutrements. He had all kind of little things that he wore, big ostrich plume. And he literally, George Catlin finished that most famous painting that I put on Instagram.

two days before Osceola died in prison. Wow. Really? Yeah. And that type of behavior, it just, it seems like they knew they were a part of a, like a big part of history in the moment. I think sometimes we don't do that right now. But like to take him and be detached enough to take him to a play to show off to everybody is saying like, this guy is going to be living infamy forever, right?

He's a part of our history and it's still alive. It's still happening. And then you got all those painters. that are like, this is happening now. Yeah. I think we lose sight of that a little bit right now, right? Yeah, it's just super interesting. Yeah, and he was only 34 years old.

And he didn't look sick in that picture either. And then he died. I noticed that right off. Yeah. It was a painting. It wasn't, you know. They photo show. He made me look good.

Hey, make me look good. So I think the way we'll talk about this is, I just kind of go around and just tell me what stood out to you, like just what was interesting or maybe what you didn't know or how much you knew about Osceola before or talk about my guests, you know, Sterling Hardjo, would you have known who Sterling Hard Joe was? Okay, I didn't really give him a proper introduction. Sterling Hardjo is a, is a filmmaker. He just was nominated for, is it a grant, is it an Emmy?

When they give the movies, Oscar. Like, he's a, he is a up and coming. He just got a big time award in the, it wasn't an Emmy. Yeah, he's a cool guy. Yeah. So he was, but it was cool hearing him. But anyway, Hunter, what stood out to you? I mean, I'd probably say getting pushed out of Alabama

during the Muskogee Creek era. and just what was going through their minds and the establishment and how things were set up. What Tecumse's influence and things like that. Yeah, wasn't that cool? Yeah. You know, you kind of wish you knew somehow, like, did these paths cross? Yeah, yeah.

You know, you have no way of, I guess, really knowing. But, no, and again, the short timeline. He died at 34. He goes there at 10. So you're looking at a very small window of what brought him to popularity. Well, I think what isn't really even debatable is that his family was heavily influenced by Tecumse. They would have been in his presence and heard Tecumseus speak. Yeah.

And then these are the people that went and raised Osceola. Yeah. You know, so like whether he would have even seen Osceola. I mean, he would have been, like, if he was born 1804, which they really don't even know for sure if that's when he was born. But if he was born in 1804, DeCompson, for sure came in 1811. So he would have been like seven years old.

Yeah. Is that right? Yeah, seven years old. He would have just been like. Kid, at trice. He would have been running around. Yeah. Yeah.

He might have known. Excessing squirrels, you know. Yeah, exactly. He would have known something was happening. That was cool. Yeah, but. But he wouldn't have been paying attention probably. Your brain's not processing in that, at that situation.

Well, nowadays. But I almost had my wife as a little insert guest, but it was a little too deep of a rabbit hole. Misty, she studies a lot about human development and child development. And there was this big research project that just came out that highlighted the ages of 9 to 13 as the most important years for long-term identity. And what they did was there was a study about Japanese kids. And they raised people that had Japanese parents in America until the age of nine. And then their family moved back to Japan. And those kids, as they grew up, viewed themselves as Japanese.

Okay? The other set of the test was there was a family kids that were raised in Japan from the age of zero to nine. And then they moved to America from the ages of nine to 13. And those kids viewed themselves as Americans. Do you see? Yeah, yeah. Like that's right where my kids are now. You know, like, yeah.

You're like, oh, crap. They right now are just trying to figure. Who am I? Yeah. Am I a Fals fan? That's right. That's right. So my wife told me about that, and I was going to have her on to tell that story.

But it was super fascinating because you wouldn't think that, would you? You would think the kids that were born in Japan and lived their toe, they were nine, would be considered themselves Japanese for the rest of their life. But it was actually opposite of that. So Osceola would have been. Yeah. That age went up to come soon. He was in the fire years of their family implementing that nativist revival of like,

we got to get rid of all this European influence. But all that stuff is so fascinating. And I love it when we bring in back a Bear Grays Hall of Fame. So, Rich, we have a legitimate Bear Grace Hall of Fame. We're actually, we haven't done a Hall of Fame induction in two years. Who's the last? About to start. The last one would have been...

Hoyt? That's a good question. Hulk Collier. Yeah. I think a guy named Hulk Collier from Mississippi. The Bear Grays Hall of Fame is interesting that some living guys that are still alive today and then some historical characters like Daniel Boone, Hulk Collier. Tecumsehosa is a Bear Gris Hall of Famer.

But it's also, speaking of Tennessee, my dear, dear friend, Roy Clark in East Tennessee. Laurel Mountain Plots. He's still, my daughter hunted with them last week. But anyway, we're about to, the next time we get the regular render crew together, we're actually going to do a new bare grease induction. We're going to have a... Do you have a boat on the show or do you just say, hey, no, we're doing this? We have it.

Well, I call, it's very formal. It's very formal. It's very formal. And I call to, you know, I put the nominations on the table. and then we vote. But it's kind of got to be the people that are regular on Bear Grays. I don't know where Josh stands on some of this stuff.

He's losing, you know, LSU fed. That's true. We can't have him. And then Garrett doesn't even like for him. Garrett can't vote on the back green. Just kidding. The hockey guy. You pick your jury.

Oh, you stack the court. You're back in the court. Of course. All right. Hey, it's your show. We always say, ma'am. It's state-run media. We can put out whatever we want.

North Korea. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So we are going to have a new induction at some point in the next two months. So be ready for that. Okay. Josh, what's that to you, man?

Something we talked about, and it's super unfortunate, but just, for one, that their history is not necessarily written. Right. It's spoken. So, for one, you don't know. Stories get twisted. Tradition. And what's super unfortunate about it is all history that is written, you usually have a winner's side and a loser side. Right.

There's two different. I'm glad I went first. You son of them. We've talked about a lot. But there's two different sides of it. And that perspective is always going to be different. So for really just all Native Americans, we have the stories that we don't know if it's 100% accurate. And then we have this other side, which is a totally different perspective.

You know, so just to hear this and then she was an expert on it and just to hear, you know, just to. Yeah, it was really cool to hear that because you don't know. You hear things and it's like, well, you see that, but then you read something else. So it was super cool just to kind of hear that side of it. Man, the analogy that we used to describe, you know, I thought it was pretty powerful. And I used that analogy on myself. I mean, I'm the one who said it, but I was saying. thinking about it like what if somebody from another place that did not speak my language right

just observe my life for however long and then they were the ones that wrote the history books about me and told about my motivations and what I did but then they also wanted my land it's called social media yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean it's just like how accurate could it be yeah well and to that to double down on on Josh's point it's like as you were saying you got the floor to Seminals have one thought in view versus, say, the ones in Oklahoma. Yeah. Saying completely different things. Yeah.

So not only is it already not written, but you've got fractions of that. Yeah. Even in the written stuff, you've got fractions because you have a, to use today's perspective, you have a right and a left. Yeah. And so, like, if you read one side, it's so tough. Yeah. And so think about adding 200 years to that. Exactly.

Exactly. When they read about what's going on now, you know, like, who are they reading? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I like to do on these is just, there's no answer, but just it, like, makes you think about it from just a different perspective. You know, you're just a little more empathetic towards people. Yeah.

You know, when you, because I think one thing that that's what interests me is looking at a story that from one perspective to another could be completely different. And both sides are. are right. Yep. Like they're, you know, are good people or have the right motivation, but like the perspective on the story. Right.

Completely changes the way you see it. So it's like I'm sitting here from this chair as an Arkansas Razorback fan and knowing that I'm right, knowing that my team's the best team. It's a tough life. But it's possible that somebody could have a different view that would be equal to mine. It's really weird to me. And more correct. Last spring, Clay Newcomb and I collaborated with Jason Phelps at Phelps game calls

and building each of our own favorite turkey diaphragms called prime cuts. Now, I'm going to tell you, I love mine because it's easy to use. I'm not going to go, I'm not going to win a turkey calling contest. It's just not going to happen. But when I run this call, I get the sounds that gobblers are looking for. I have a great turkey hunting track record. If you go listen to real turkeys out in the woods, they're not going to win calling. contests, right?

That's who I listen to. I can make those sounds on my cut. I also hunt with Phelps's cut, and I hunt with Clay's cut because they're all three great cuts. Check out Prime Cuts at Phelpsgamecauls.com. I think you'll be glad you did, and you'll find out that the Steve Rinella cut is an easy-to-use cut for beginning callers

who just want to start making good turkey noises and getting action. what rich what stood out to you man i've got so i'm we were talking yesterday i've i've got a weird not a weird but i have an american history obsession so i started reading the uh o'reilly killing books and one of them's killing crazy horse and so it goes through it's not just about crazy horse because he's kind of towards the end of what we'll say it the eradication of native americans throughout the country so but it goes you know geographical section by section and i'm sure and i don't remember because it's been a while since i read about osseola was in there i'm sure

And so you have that perspective, right? And so it paints Andrew Jackson as this villain, right? You know, he was this terrible, awful human being. Well, then now I have this, through reading those books, I have this, all right, I'm going to read a biography on every U.S. president. And so when I get to Jackson, I have this kind of like bad taste in my mouth. And I read that book, and I'm like, from his perspective, and I'm just putting this as me, putting my viewpoint on from reading the book,

God, family, country. And I'm like, that aligns with my views. Did he do it right? Absolutely not. But it goes back to that perspective of like, who's telling the story? Who's telling the story, right? And you know, you look at today, right? And we have this crazy election coming up.

We won't get political. But it's like, there's two sides to every story. And there's bits on both sides that are right. And there's bits on both sides that are wrong. Yeah. And so, man, it is so when we're, you know, you're listening to her, you're like, yeah, this is, you know, Like, I'm behind this.

And then I step back and I read from Andrew, it wasn't even Andrew Jackson's perspective. It was a third party. But you're just like, that's, I believe in a lot of those. So it's so hard to then 100, 200 years ago, have that different. And so it's just so hard, right? You know, we just come off Columbus Day and everybody's politics on that. And you're just like, hey, history is rough.

Yeah. And both sides, there's bad and there's good, right? And it places that importance on, like, who's telling that story. Telling the story. Because like Dr. Wickman, you know, her passion behind it, you kind of sort of can't help but go down that road. Yeah, exactly. So whether it's Osceola or somebody else, it's when you get that passionate storyteller behind it, it starts to skew you. But that's why history is so important.

You know, this whole cancel every history, everywhere. And you're like, no, man, we need to like, we need to have some perspective, not believe everything we read, obviously. but it's just history is important. Yeah. This will be on one of the next episodes, but I had an interesting little section of conversation with Sterling Harjo, who is a Seminole Creek in Oklahoma.

And basically he started talking about the conflicted position that he has, he's like, man, I love America. I mean, he, he's more American than me. He's like, he loves America. Yeah. But he's like, but it's kind of weird because America literally tried to kill every member of my, all my ancestors, like, wanted them dead. In different ways, too, you know.

And so he's like, and here we are in schools, like, pledge in allegiance to the flag. And he's like, it's always kind of weird to me. But he had such a, when you hear it, it's real interesting because he's not, he is not, he's not embittered or anything. He, uh, but it's still very real. I mean, even today inside the tribes, I mean, sometimes it's like, man, that stuff happens so long ago. That's a long time ago. Man, the, the tribes in Oklahoma are fresh. Well, it's not even, it's not even, they're not even looking back on fresh stuff or, you know, the old stuff.

They're looking back on. And I certainly don't speak for them, but just today struggles with their sovereignty. Because it's a real weird unique situation in Oklahoma where there's, I don't know how many different sovereign nations there are in Oklahoma. If you're driving to Oklahoma, you're driving into a different country. Aren't they trying to sue for some land too? There was something going on. There's a lot always going on over there.

Yeah. I think it shows, man, like, it depends on how far back in history you look, like his sentiment about pledging allegiance to the flag. Then, like, let's take into consideration why all of us are here right now and making the jump across the pond and what was going on over there and we were trying to get away from people doing to us, what we ended up doing to other people. And it's just like, you can keep doing that all the way back to the first couple hundred people that were here, right?

And it's just, there's always somebody trying to take what they don't have, and there's always somebody giving it up. But that's just the way that history works, right? It just keeps rolling. Yeah, yeah. It doesn't make it good. No. It doesn't make it better.

It doesn't make it easier. It makes it important, though. It is a reality of history. Yeah. Brent, what's it out to you? I liked it. You know, forever in history books and movies or whatever, Native Americans were portrayed as savages,

and that's what they were referred to as. But they had enough. sense and enough self-awareness to know that they could settle a dispute on the battlefield or they could settle the dispute on the ball field. And they're interesting. And they played that game. And there may have been some folks that died in it, which is unfortunate. But, I mean, that's really taking one for the team, literally.

But they're settling disputes like that back then. instead of wiping out whole communities, they settled it there. And if we're going by that, that creed, that example that they did, I guess we now own Tennessee. This is now Arkansas, too? I was watching how he was kind of trying to right now. That was all done. Well done.

I am the captain now. Look at me. So when LSU wins today, then that we conquered Arkansas. I don't know, I don't count with LSU. But that was, that was really interesting to me that that was that far back that they had enough foresight to think, you know, we're wasting each other. But if we're going to duke it out and there's no getting around it, let's play this game. You know, there was, Dr. Wickman talked about that a little bit more that I just didn't have time to put on there. but that game was called, some of them called it the Little Brother of War.

That was what they referred to as. Yeah, I was about saying the rules or, man. It was almost, in these conversations, I love it, because a lot of times there's just a little tangent that I didn't see coming, and that was one of them. She wasn't even wanting to talk about Ball. She was wanting to talk about how they didn't have long-term cities built, like they were nomadic, and she was using it.

example and said when they get when a ball pole gets struck they'll move then never go back right because bad look and then i was like wait a minute what's a ballpole and then she kind of went into that but uh so i don't actually don't know what it was or how they did it i think that's important to the story though because you know to his perspective us saying savages or hearing savages when you're growing up or whatever you know it's not as common now but that's shows you one way they weren't savage so it's almost like it, you know, it would have been cool, you know, I'll Google it. I'm sure we can find it on it. Oh, yeah, yeah. There's a Wikipedia about it somewhere a bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Garrett, what's stood out to you? And I'd love to give you like some romantic, nuanced

perspective. I'm been thinking about it. But probably one of my takeaways, uh, I have been listening to John Anderson for a long time and had no idea what that song was talking about. talking about or who he was referring to with Osceola. Like I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've, I've seen that part of the song, you know, heard Osceola cry. No, I just, you know, never even thought to look it up. Right. Turkey, you thought it.

You thought it was a turkey. When you said yesterday, hey, listen to the podcast for tomorrow, I was like, oh, cool. It's about the, the history of that turkey. I didn't know. And so I was like, all right, learn something. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

It's just, I mean, sometimes we're singing songs. We don't know what we're talking about. I'm from Montana too. We got power like two years ago. Thanks a long. I don't have internet. That's a new release for you. You just heard it.

That's right. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Actually, right here, right here. Come on. Come on. Come on.

Oh. Look at that. Spiral it back. Oh. Oh. Here's the interesting behind the scenes. Oftentimes, times I will

well let me go back even further Garrett told me that a lot of big time Instagram YouTubers will think about the thumbnail of the YouTube video maybe even before they make the video I

that song is what made me want to do learn about Osceola I just it was such powerful imagery I did know it was a person I knew as a Seminole leader that's about all I would have known and I was just like man if John John Anderson said the ghost of Osceola was crying. I'm in.

There's a story back there. And Rich just thought that John Anderson was really in touch with how turkeys felt. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. And so that was the spark point. And I kind of envisioned, like, using that song. Because I'm really interested in where some of this, whether it's hunting or, in this case,

just kind of unique history touches mainstream, like pop culture. That's interesting to me. And so, you know, we're still talking about Osceola. But the Tecumseus series, I would not have known much about Tecum, anything about Tecumseh, nothing. And I was reading a book and it said and it talked about this Shawnee leader in that his name meant Panther Crossing the Sky. And when I heard what his name meant, and on the night, Tecumse was born, a comet flashed across the sky.

That's the lore of Tecumse's birth, and they called him Panther Crossing the Sky. Is he the one that his brother was a drunk? Well, his brother was alcohol. But his brother was also a major political figure, right? Well, he was more of a religious figure. Religious, okay. Yeah, Tinskwado. But when I heard about Panther crossing the sky, I was like,

I'm going to learn about that guy. And then he ends up, you know, I mean, it's just such a fascinating story of who Tecumse was. What did you all the other Bear Grease characters coming into play? Crockett. Love it. And then Tecumse and then Boone. Yeah.

What did y'all think? You got a little offended. You were offended. Well, triggered. He was triggered. I was triggered. You got a little triggered. I was triggered.

I can see that, though. Do you think Boone had a Shawnee wife? Do you remember the series? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Zero documentation. This much. I mean, I think she brings a lot of really good points that it just wasn't a thing.

She was confident that it happened. Oh, I know. When that came up, I remember this and you can go back and listen to that render. Man, you jumped all over me for saying, man, that's probably just the way it was back. And he was like, no, no. No. He was a religious man. He wouldn't do that.

And I thought then, man, you were. are a product of your... Hey, listen. Wait a minute. You are a product of your environment. And it very well could have been not absolutely not abnormal at all to do that. And it could have been a position to where he was, it not being abnormal. And also, it could have been something that fit him into that community to be... Got him more loud. Let me know what Alexis thinks about your doctor.

Let me tell you. That ain't going to fly. That ain't going to wash right now. But listen, listen, this is what I was thinking. And this is, I can just tell you, this is true. If I'm captured by some foreign army and the only way for Clay Newcomb, sitting today married to Misty Newcomb with the value system that I have, the kids that I have, the lifestyle that I have, the biblical doctrine that I have,

no, it's not. It's the same. And you say, you got to take this woman or die, I'm going to be like, dude, let's go. I'm out I'm out that's today and I'm the same way the Bible didn't change

I understand oh come on now it absolutely did it's the same today yesterday and forever I mean I'm just kidding my point is the

is a I think the point as strong is that like it if his I'm not saying he had the same belief system as me you have to you have to put yourself

You've got to tell the story right. That's what you would do. Exactly. You don't know what Daniel Boone did. He's the same as Daniel Boone. That's where I'm getting passionate about defense of Boone's character. I think if you put Osceola in prison and you told him to defy his culture at a very base level, he would have said, I ain't doing it.

I'm dying. That's what he said. That's what he did. That's what to come. I mean, like people that have a rock hard value system that's connected. to their culture, will die for it. Garrett?

I think he absolutely did it. Yeah. Man, I just... Vander Boone was a play-up. Well, I think it was a different time. I know you have, like, a very strong value system, and that's been shaped by the world that you've lived in from the time you're born until now.

And I think trying to insert yourself, like, if you took that same narrative, what, it was five or seven, out of the first nine presidents owned slaves. Right. Okay. Would you own a slave right now? But do you think George Washington

had a different value system than you did foundationally? Right. And so I think it's like really hard to say that that Daniel Boone from the time he was born to go on and being inserted in that tribe would have made him not assimilate or do something like that.

I just don't think we could say that he wouldn't. That's a good point. Where was he from 9 to 13? Good point. Japan. That's what I got from this whole podcast. No, I hear what you're saying. I hear what you're saying.

I think it's just a fun, like, mental exercise. And you've seen it with people. I mean, people do fall, right? So we are people. Yeah, you can't put it. Not to trigger you any further, Clay. But I've seen some, and I've seen it personally, just people strong in their faith make fall.

Yeah, make bad decisions. Sure. Who knows? Yeah, and we don't really know a lot about Boone's faith. But just the assumption that because, well, just the assumption that because it was the trend of the time that you would do it, I think is unfair. Yeah. That's all. That's all. Yeah, that's cool.

That's all. Okay, now, how much time are we at? I have no concept of time. I mean, how long have we been going? We're blown over by two hours. technically but you know oh we always go over an hour yeah we're good we're good I'm not worried about it no no no I just want to make sure we had me going like an hour and a half okay see let's record yet do it again do it again hey can we do

this whole conversation but condensed yeah just as natural but condensed oh wow yeah no it was it was interesting to me too. So we did a big series on Crockett. And Crockett, who was, you know, it's so not politically correct to, like, say this, but he was known as an Indian hunter, you know, which is a wild thing to say and think. But, like, at that time, that's what people became known for. Political figures, like, would get known in these wars against Native Americans

and would gain clout and status and whatnot. He was known as an Indian hunter, but he actually wasn't. Like today, I bet if you polled a bunch of people here, now these people would know who Crockett is because we're in Tennessee. That's right. I'm going to see.

Yep. He'll run in the end zone when I touch on. But Crockett, he did fight in the Red Stick War, so he fought against the creeks. Under Andrew Jackson. But that incident of watching that hut burn. really impacted him for the rest of his life. And more potatoes.

He would not eat potatoes. That was what was said. But then, you know, he recounted in his autobiography about how, like, he wasn't cool with that. And then later in his political career would have been very advantageous for him to side with Andrew Jackson and everything, he vehemently opposed the Indian Removal Act. And then even saying, I'm doing this so that in the, look you there at that Blue Tick Dog. that's not the real smoky is it? No.

I'll pretend. Pampered somewhere, I bet. Nice looking blue tip. You know, he said, so in Judgment Day, I'm found on the right side, which was a pretty progressive position. Because, I mean, obviously most of America was okay with this and was behind it. You know, and it probably was one of those social deals that if you went and talked to an individual and said, hey, what do you think about us moving all these people out of their home and sending them?

They might have said, man, it's kind of sad. But then it's like, but what's your stance on the political part of it? It would have been like, well, I kind of want to live in Alabama, you know? Yep. I mean, it's one of those deals where they... The human side of it is detached a little bit from the political side of it. Yeah. A lot like today.

And I think Crockett, he sawed those people. getting killed. And then he did, he did have rapport with... Well, it's perspective, too. Like, he was in it. He saw the suffering. When you're detached from it, and you don't see that, you don't see that stuff every day? You're like, ah, that doesn't happen, or it's not bad. Everything changes once it becomes personal. Once it's real. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot different written on, you know, in the newspaper. Oh, yeah, you're like, oh, there's no human aspect of it. You know, you just read over it. It's just a headline or it's just something you see. And you're like, oh, yeah, yeah, that's ridiculous.

And then when you see it in person, you see the suffering, you're like, oh, dang. There's a human side to it. Well, I felt like that was a redemptive moment in Crockett's life. And it's actually what spurred him to go to Texas because he didn't get reelected because of that, partly because of that position in his stance against Andrew Jackson. And he was kind of ticked off and was like, you know what? I'm going to Texas. And he goes down to Texas and dies within three months in the alley.

But I also thought about, I almost didn't put that story in the podcast. And I'll tell you why. I knew that a lot of my Seminole Native American friends were going to listen to this. And I thought about, like, what if we told the story about your family, they got something like very gruesome and dark? You know, we, it's so easy for us to, because here I am almost saying, like telling this story. at the end there was something positive, which I was saying this ended up being a place where Crockett kind of redeemed himself in my mind, his stance on ending removal. And like, I bet if they were talking about my family, I would be like, that's a pretty nice spin.

Yeah. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, for sure. So I'm conscious of that kind of stuff. But anyway. So will we hear any of those same guests? in part two and part three. And there'll be a new guest at some point.

Okay. It was going to be a new guy. The level of editing was impressive, like that you had to go to all these different places and then interject. That was way above my pay grade. If I podcast, I'm like, nah, dude, hit start and when it's about an hour, hour and a half we're done. You know, I mean, that was impressive.

What the audience probably doesn't realize with Clay is when, like, some people will just have a mission of getting a podcast and they start on one day and end on the next day, and then that's the podcast. Clay will go months getting feedback and sound bites about multiple podcasts he has in his mind from different people and different guests, and then it all comes together like this. And it is intensive. I've never seen, and I'm just going to shoot your horn for a little bit,

I have never seen a podcast host. Sorry, I know, I know. I've never seen a podcast host, though, take more personal ownership in the edit and splicing together of a podcast than Clay. Like it is, it's really cool to watch. Yeah, I appreciate it, man. Yeah. Now, and that's where I'm grateful to just having the opportunity to dedicate this much time.

I mean, like, imagine if you were working nine to five stock and groceries. And then have to train. And then had to train. I did that early on, not stocking groceries, but yeah, it was hard. You wake up every day and think about training. Yeah. I think about that. I get to wake up every day and think about content for the most part.

Yeah. You know, and it shows. Like, it's, it was cool. Well, and telling these stories has been, I love it. I really do. I love it. Did she go on, you know, she talked about that figurine that her friend found in Belgium that was made in Italy? Yeah.

Did she go on any more, like, off-camera about, like, his world? renowned popularity other than just within? Not really. Not really. I mean, you start looking around and you see a lot of stuff, not just from Osceola, but just like Native American kind of totems in different parts, just all over.

It's all over everywhere. But we are going to talk about the Florida State Seminoles, you know, being a college football. And it being accepted, right, as a mascot. Yeah. Yeah, they're pretty passionate about it too. Yeah, yeah. It's a pretty interesting story there.

But, well, man, again, we're in Knoxville. Games going to start here in a little bit. I got something for you. Okay. James, Peter, Nancy, Pauley, William. We didn't do trivia. Oh, my gosh. Now you just have to ask, what is it?

that? Those are the end? I can't believe it. I can't believe it. We're going to do speed trivia. All right. The first person to spout it off wins. Okay. I can't believe. I always do this. I got to have somebody keep me on track. Trivia. Okay. Whoever gets the most points and just whoever I says gets the point, get the point. No, no hassling. Okay. Number one. What Spanish word? Semeron. Bang. One point. You keep your own

score. The question was, what Spanish word? Seminole? Is the name Seminole taken from? Simeron means the wild ones. Which is pretty cool. Number two. Josh Spilmaker made these questions. I think he made him for, like, his, like, young kids. Oh.

They're pretty basic. Oh, well. I was looking for, Josh, I was looking for something a little more philosophical. Maybe we'll get one. Okay. Where was the Osceola statue gifted to Dr. Patricia Wickman purchased made. Made in Italy.

Okay, that's half of it. Belgium. Somebody put those two together? Belgium, Italy. Okay, point goes to Josh. Did you say it? Well, he was asking about it earlier. I feel like these are unfair.

He already knows them all. Well, okay, you get that point. You get the point. All right, so one to one. He's a coach. Number three. Okay, now this one, just raise your hand and I'll call on you. Okay.

Who can give a decent explanation? of the genealogy of Osceola leading to his English name, which was, so the answer will hold his English name and the genealogy. Garrett, do you have an answer? Billy Powell. Okay, this is the English name. And he was one eighth native of Scottish origin. Okay, well, I'm asking for a decent, well...

The names. What are the names? Oh, you want just what I just said. Yeah, what he just said. James was his great-great-grandpa. You actually got it wrong on your podcast. It was his great-great-grandpa. In your face.

Starting in 17-16. Too-shay. James, then Peter, was his son. Then Nancy, it's Peter's daughter. Then Polly was Nancy's daughter that hooked up a William. Yep. Which was Billy's dad. That was impressive.

That was impressive. That's why I get it. He's written on your hand somewhere? All right. We're giving you two points. Yeah, that was worth like five hours. We tied? Oh, it's a tie game.

You all can get your own podcast if you want to make the rules. This is my rules, okay? That's like those sandwiches and Steve. Okay. This is a low-hanging fruit. Y'all be ready. Put hands on the buzzers. What does Osceola's name mean?

Oh, the black drink. Black drink. Oh, yeah. The name of the podcast. The Black Drink singer. Who said it? Singer. The correct answer is Black Drink Singer.

Black Drink Singer. Did you say it? I got it. Okay, what's the score then? Three. Three, one, two. I got six. Got nothing.

Okay. I feel like that one is a little shady. I just know I have one more point than Tennessee. I mean, Hunter. Okay, this one is, like, way too hard. Josh, like, turn the throttle, like, all the way in the top. I didn't even know who this was. Okay.

Who was the artist famous for painting? the portrait of Osceola stabbing Payne's treaty with a knife. That's a winner takes all there. Who does it? I don't remember that. Sterling Harjo. I remember that they disagreed that it happened.

Yeah, yeah. Right, right. And he said famously, ah, shoot. It's like a modern guy. That was the chief of the, in the Seminole tribe. Sterling stated his name. I don't think anybody's going to get it. I would never remember.

His name is Enoch Kelly Haney. Doesn't even ring a bell, actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Thanks, Josh. Okay. Josh Wilmaker. Let's see. Last question.

But there's actually two more questions, but we've already answered this one. So hands on the buzzers. What percentage Muscogee Creek? 1-8. Do historians agree that Osceola was? 1-8. Okay, and I got to say one quick thing. Some of the Seminoles dispute some of the genealogy of Oceola.

The Floridians are the ones in Oklahoma. The Floridians dispute. Well, no, I guess it could be either way. I'm not even going to go into that much detail, but there is dispute. Some people are like, no, he wouldn't seven-eighth Scottish. That was interesting, too, that him being part of the community had more weight than the actual blood, you know,

because we attach so much blood. Which is interesting. You look at the portrait. I mean, you don't see one-eighth. in 7-8 Scottish. Yeah, for sure. Did you like it when Dr. Wickman said, you're looking at this all wrong.

Yeah. You're focusing on what non-Indians focus on. That was another time she just like put me in my place. Put your hand down. Put your hand down. Slap it. She was like, quit talking. This is my podcast.

Shut up, boy. Yep. All right. Last question. Last question. And right now the current score is three to one to two. Three. I got three.

I got three, bro. What was the name of the village where O. was born. Oh, I don't know. He said multiple times. Muskogee Creek? No. It's a tough one.

I wouldn't have a hard time with it. The correct answer is Talashy. There's a T. It's in Alabama. It's in Alabama. And they know right where the town was. I'm not certain exactly what modern town is there, but that's where he was born. So congratulations.

Winner. It's a tie. It's a tie. Wait. You got a tie. You can't bring me down. Yeah, they're three. Was it really?

What's a good tie breaker we could do? We can't have a tie. What was the year he moved to Florida? 1814. There it was. Yeah. Whoa. Did you know that was happening?

I almost want to count that question. Oh, it's not fair. The year he moved to 18? Yeah. Would you have known that as quick as him? Yeah. Okay. Because I knew it was.

He would have you have known it quicker than him. No, I'm not saying quicker. Come on, dude. Yes. Get another question. You just did another question. If he would have said, yeah, I would have got it quicker. I would have, you know, this is a rare moment in the man's life

when he's able to just publicly harass his boss. Help me with another question. What was Andrew Jackson's nickname, Old Hickton? We have a winner! Congratulations! Congratulations, great win. Hunter Spencer was our winner? Andrew Jackson's house.

Sorry, Gatt. Didn't stand a chance. It's just hard losing. First win. Hey, thanks, guys. This is a lot of fun. I might not win over there. I'm going to try to lose it.

It's been a lot of fun. Thanks, Rich and Josh. Yeah, absolutely. It's great, Garrett, Hunter. Awesome. Thanks, thanks, guys. I appreciate it. Last spring, Clay Newcomb and I collaborated with Jason Phelps at Phelps game calls

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