Bear Grease - Ep. 27: Bear Grease [Render] - Scent Control, Jaguars, and "The Ballad of Warner Glenn"

Episode Date: November 10, 2021

Early in this episode, Clay's alerted that the Render crew has formed a union and are disgruntled with their current work situation. Later, they have a hefty argument around commercial scent control products for whitetail hunting. After a contentious conversation, they move on and talk about the buck Clay killed in Oklahoma this week. Finally, they discuss the borderlands jaguar and Clay releases an original song called "The Ballad of Warner Glenn." They also introduce a new guest, Clay's longtime friend, Tyrel Denison. Connect with Clay and MeatEaterClay on InstagramMeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YoutubeShop Bear Grease Merch Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. First Lights fieldware collection is made for the work that happens long before opening day and continues when the season ends. Products built for early mornings, full days and real use. Hard wearing where they need to be versatile where it matters. No shortcuts. Just gear designed for the work that earns the season.

Built to perform, built to last. Check out. First Light's new field. Worldware Gear at firstlight.com. My name is Clay Newcomb, and this is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called the Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual Bear Grease podcast. Presented by FHF Gear, American Made, Purpose Built, Hunting and Fishing Gear that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. Guys, we've got an exclusive bear grease discount code for FHF gear.

That's fish hunt fight gear. I've been using their products for the last year, and I love carrying my gear in a chest rig or my binos in their bino harness. It's easier and more accessible than a backpack, and it doesn't get in the way when I'm riding my mule. For a limited time, you can head over to phfgear.com forward slash bear grease. and listeners to this here podcast, get a discount on purchases for your FHF Gear system, and you can see how I build my gear system.

So go to FHFGear.com forward slash bear grease for a special code if you're buying stuff from FHF Gear. Check it out. Fish Hunt Fight, FHF Gear. Say that again, Dan. I think we should make a podcast that's this Ronald Render participants. Because there's a growing number. Oh, my goodness. Is there strife on the team?

Well, not unofficial. Classic clueless leadership asks, is there strife on the team? Well, is a fat dog heavy? We're barely hanging on. I can't get attention to anymore.

Let's just say there's been some meetings in private. Oh, wow. I had to take a few weeks on. Players only meeting. I had to take a few weeks off to recover. No, no, we're just forming a union. We've unionized. We've unionized.

We've unionized. Hey, speaking, welcome to the bearer grease render. Speaking of the render, what did you guys think of the last render? When we got booted out without notice? What? That time. It stung a little. I had taken the whole week off.

Hey, this is a safe place, okay? I had taken the whole week off to be on the render. We can talk about what's on our hearts, okay? It's kind of like watching your kids go to family Christmas somewhere else. Yeah. And Dan as a bitch Hey listen

I had some very I had some very good feedback from that one and then I had also some guys that were like never let those guys on there again bring back the guys we love

and that was you guys We really like those guys They were great I listened to a lot of it It was nice of them to fill in. Yeah. I'll say that.

Well, see, what people don't understand is that when you're in showbiz, you got to do what showbiz has to do. We had been hunting and we had to make a render. And that was part of the plan from the beginning is that different times we'd have a full new crew. Like if I was somewhere in a camp and I would just fill it in. So it was super fun. I heard it.

And five minutes into it, I thought, this is Clay's fault. Because clearly you have. had made them so uncomfortable that they... Hey, okay. They're really nice, really nice guys. They are the nicest guys. We had been pounding. Clay had made really uncomfortable.

We had been pounding the dirt for days. Days. And we really were tired, but it was great. It was great. Mark, and having all the guys on there was fun. I had a lot of people say they really liked it. But it's great to have everybody back. Hey, let me do, uh, let me, let me do introductions.

Josh Spillmaker, Josh Landberg Spillmaker to my left. Good to see, Josh. It's good to be seen, honestly. Hey, we're going to play some music later. Are you serious? Like, real live music and you're a part of it. Okay, I'm in. Hey, we have one guest, and I'm going to come back to him, as is our, as is our custom.

To Josh's left, Dr. Daniel Rup. Hey, everybody. Hey, Dan Rup has been killing some deer. I have. Did you know that, Dad? Yeah, I've talked to him, but he's killed two deer with his boat. In our side meetings, we've talked about several things. There's no rift between Dan and I.

Nope. Dickest thieves over here. Well, congrats on the deer. Thanks a ton. So this is your first year bow hunting in a while, though? First year bohunting probably 12 or 13 years. How many of you killed? Two.

Really? Yeah. I knew about one of them. I didn't know about the other one. I got a little dough the other night. About four nights ago. You got a secret honey hole? That's a best meat.

I almost took a dollar out driving up here tonight. Really? Yeah. Don't meet's the best meat. We just, it's in the freezer as of tonight. We just, this afternoon, we. It's a big deal to kill a deer with a bow. Man, I'm so thankful.

It's been really fun. I've got a good friend of mine. Gives me a little spot to hunt on and just wonderful. That's awesome. Yeah. Real good. It's hard to find a good friend. To Dan's left.

Gary Newcomb Dad's It's been a while since you've been here It's been a while It's been probably Four or five weeks It has been

You know there's been a couple Of Gary Newcomb For President campaigns going on Were you aware of this? No, I wasn't You know I've applied for unemployment But

Didn't work It didn't work So now you're going to run For president Now I'll put a sticker on my car Have you done any hunting dad? None You know I've been shooting my bow

I got my equipment ready I've got my sent lock, ready to go. But when I get up in the morning, I think, why am I doing this, man? And so you don't go, huh? You just stay home? Yeah. But I really have plans of killing a monster buck this year.

Good. Did you hear the shoutout that you got from Mark Kenyon? No. I mean, oh. On the render. On the render, yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay, so my dad, Gary Newcomb and Mark Kenyon, who's meat eater's whitetail guru,

his podcast and what he does is, his brand. under Wired to Hunt, and he has one of the top white-tailed podcast in the country, if not the top whitetail podcast. So me and Mark always have this fun thing going where he is like a guru. He's like a, he's like a gear nerd in tactics. I mean like his mind is like a like a gearbox when it comes to all this stuff. What Mark wouldn't know is that my mind used to be that way and I was liberated. And my mind used to be that way because Gary Newcomb's mind is that way.

And so I grew up under the Whitetail Jedi Master, ultimate scent control, ultimate tree stand setup, ultimate gear guy, ultimate bow tinker. I mean, Gary Newcomb.

And I have all that leftover stuff from 25 years ago. Yeah, and then dad gave a bunch of stuff to Josh. Josh stole a lot of that stuff. I did steal that flashlight. I admit I stole the flashlight for six years, but I gave it back. You did give it back. Six years.

Streamlight. So dad used to be, well, still is, big time in the gear. And dad and I have talked about this privately. We've worked through this. But that kind of impacted me into not really liking gear. Gear's like, gear is like a necessary evil. You're like the prodigal son. Maybe so.

I said all that to say, Mark and Dad got a little. long, great. The sunny never had. Yeah. Yeah, I thought a lot of Mark. That whole crew was just extremely nice. I mean, I just enjoyed every one of those guys. Yeah, yeah.

By the way, Mark said he might get me a piece of gear. Oh, really? Yeah. And he said, if I don't get it, to tell you. Okay. So Mark, we need to tell Mark to get you some gear. Yeah. So the way this worked is we hunted down around where dad.

lives for a film that you'll see one day through meat eater of Mark hunting public land down of the mountains. So I didn't even tell mom and dad too many specifics about when we were going to be down in their hometown because we weren't going to have time to go see them so I didn't want them to think much about us being there. So we go there, Dan, and at like 8 o'clock we were delayed. It was like 8 o'clock at night and we were about to have to go out in the woods and set up our full camp in the dark and then break it all down and go hike back in at daylight. And so I said, you know what? I bet we could stay with Juju. And so I called my mom and I was like, what are you doing, Juju? And she's like, oh, we're just, you know, getting ready for bed or whatever

she said, you know. I was like, how would you feel about six of us coming and stay in the night with you? Right now in one hour. And she said, the prodigal son returns. She said, what do you? What do you? I think a mom, what would a southern mom say if that happened? Well, come on. Okay, well, she said that, but she expressed some worries, too. Have you all eaten? Yes. I don't have any food.

I hadn't cooked, Clay, stuff like that. And I was like, Juju, we've already eaten. We're full. We don't need any food. I don't have any food. Juju, we don't need any food. We're not hungry. Don't, but I just don't have much food.

Juju, we don't need any food. Did she have food when you got there anyway? She had a little bit. She did. She scratched so much. Did she talking about the house being a mess? All the house is a mess? Okay, I wasn't going to set.

But yeah, she's like, yep, she's like, the house is a mess. And the house was perfectly clean. And so we went over and stayed with mom and dad. It was a lot of fun. Oh, yeah. It was nice. We really enjoyed it. And then we stayed on the tail end of the trip, too, five days later.

Yeah, yeah. We came back and stayed a night. And all the guys just loved mom and dad. They had a good time. What's not the last? love. We actually recorded the render at their house. That's what I was going to say. Has Clay taken you to his spirits house, Dan? One time. Oh, really? You've been down there? Yeah. Yeah. Years ago. Well, I've been down there. I go down to see Gary.

Yeah, okay. We're buds. You're friends with Mark, can you? Mark and I go way back. I've never met him. Mark's like the son I never had. Hey, we've got a great podcast. I'm very excited about it. this we're we're going to talk about the third and final kind of Southwest themed podcast so this podcast was not just about Warner Glen it was about the Borderlands Jaguar we're gonna that's where we're going so if you're new to the render which there's a lot of people that might be new to this we produce a documentary style podcast I

haven't introduced our guest no goodness gracious or the or Misty the replaceable one you know Okay, I've got to finish what I was going to say, and then we'll come back. I'm so sorry. We'll come back to us. The Bear Grease podcast is a documentary-style podcast that we just put a ton of energy and effort into. The Bear Greas render is this informal gathering of people where we talk about... Less effort. We talk about the podcast.

So this is the Bear Greas Render. you're listening to. Okay, two Gary's left, my lovely wife, Misty Newcomb. Great to be here. Always good to be here. Yeah. Always good to be here. Great. Okay. Our mystery guest is my long time friend. We go to church together. We're neighbors. Tyrell Denison. Welcome, Ty. Hey, glad to be here. Man, this is, I knew this day would come that you would be on the render. It's nice to be here. I'm glad to have gotten the invite. Ty has been pretty instrumental in my world, career world.

He really was. Ty was the one who like seven years ago, did you know this, Josh? We were producing that Bear Horizon video for Bear Hunting magazine. Which if people have not watched, they should go back and watch because it was fantastic. Man, I'm embarrassed to some of that stuff. I love it.

I still watch videos from there. There's some really good content. Yeah. Well, so we were producing Bear Horizon videos. That's what we call it. I think in 2015 we started. I thought it was fantastic. It's like, what are you talking about?

Yeah, some of it was good. Better than a couple of renders I've heard. Listen, listen, Dan, then we just had them on like Vimeo and like embedded them on our website. I didn't even know what Vimeo was then. That's what you did back in those days. But I mean, I didn't know what Vimeo was until he said, hey, you can watch these videos on Vimeo.

Oh, okay. Yeah, it's just a way to implant a video on a webpage. Well, then Tye one day walked up to me and said, Clay, you need to put your video. videos on YouTube. And I was like, nah. I mean, this was like 2015. This was like seven years ago. So I was like, man, YouTube is for like cell phone videos and low quality content. And Ty said, not anymore. He said, he said, this is the direction that the market's going. You got to put your stuff on YouTube. And he was adamant about it. And I did it. And within like a month,

I had a viral video on YouTube. It was when that bear touched my arrow. And that video, and that video, jumped started the Bear Honey magazine YouTube channel, which built it out. Anyway, so Ty DeNison has been influential. And Ty's always really good at giving me feedback. And I barely understand YouTube. Like, I'm not someone who's, like, following YouTube. Like, the fact that people can just create content on YouTube,

like, in their room still, like, breaks my brain. I'm just like, I don't know how people make millions on YouTube, but I'd seen enough quality content in, like, my areas of interest where I knew, like, oh, there's stuff here besides just, guys with their webcam talking about what's been going on on the internet these days amongst the kiddos. There's actually some really nice stuff around here. Yeah.

And so it's just like, man, it'll get out there and people will share it for sure. And so, yeah, I was glad to hear that it took off because it was good stuff needed to get out there. It still is. Yeah, yeah. Nothing to be ashamed of on that YouTube channel. Well, I've learned inside the media is that you do stuff and then you go back and look at it and it's like a different version.

know who you are and you're kind of Yeah. But no, there's some real good bear hunts on there. Some good white tail hunts too. Speaking of white tail hunts, I have something I want to show you guys.

I have a little something to show you, boys. Oh, looking at that. Look at that guy. Look at that sucker. That is a skull, a non-typical skull. That is a crazy looking.

Unusual. So this, by the time this render comes out, I will have put this picture on YouTube, the YouTube. On the YouTube? On the YouTube? On the Instagram.

YouTube for pictures, if you will. This deer was walking around about 26 hours ago. I killed that deer in Oklahoma yesterday. This is the one you were going after for days, right? No, negative. Negative? There was a different one? That was a different book.

This was the first time I hunted this property in Oklahoma. So let me tell you what we've been doing. For the last seven days, Mark Kenyon, Spencer Newhart, Tony Peterson, and myself have been hunting. We're basically meat eater is making a white tail series that's going to come out like in two weeks. We're going to produce a bunch of episodes that document our hunts. And we were hunting in four different states. We actually hunted in, I think, six different states between the four of us. In the last week?

In the last week. Wow. Yeah. I killed that deer on the last day of the hunt, man. Who can describe that rack to somebody? It's the one side is really clean and it just has a typical five point side typical five point side the other side looks like something out of a sci-fi fantasy movie yeah well it really doesn't know it doesn't really have a main beam over there

let's do a live measuring of that time it's like you melted the bottom how long how long is that spike so basically it has one very clean typical five point side the left side is just a a spike of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 points. And the two bottom ones are like horizontal. Yeah. So from the base is 14.5 inches. 13 and a quarter inches. Nice.

That's 13 and a quarter. Would that be the main beam? You know, it would be a judgment call. I would say it's the main beam. Okay. And then this would be like the brow time right here. We'll go from the burr. That's about 12 inches.

So you're going to see pictures of this on Instagram, and on Instagram it looks like a 140, 150 inch deer. It's not that big. It's a, this was a three-year-old deer. I don't even know what the deer was called. Was that a filter you used to make the deer look bigger? It was just, how does that work out? It's just pictures make deer look about 20 inches bigger than they are. They just always do.

It's a new app called antler me. Hey, that's a good looking deer. I mean, I was expecting it to be. less than that. Really? Based on what you said. I'm very impressed with that animal. Man, it was a big, it was a big body deer at all.

He came in. We had hunted seven days, and I never even saw a buck I would have shot in seven. Wow. Full days of hunting in good places. I hunted three and a half days in Arkansas, three and a half days in southeast Oklahoma. And I hunted with my friend Alvin Grigg, who he and his wife, like a week ago, I got he heard what I was trying to do and he said hey come hunt our place oh that's awesome super generous and I went down there and they rolled the red carpet out for me and he hadn't hunted much out there

so he didn't really know the you know he hadn't been out there much this year and but he knew the good pinch points on this property and and anyway I killed that deer after three days and we hadn't seen very many deer until this deer came in, but man, he marched in just like on a mission and shot him at about 22 yards yesterday afternoon. Hit him far back, Dad. I told Alvin, I said, when I was a boy learning how to bow hunt. You'd have got a whooping for that. Well, you know what?

I told him when we were young, you preached to us not to hit him in the shoulder. And to this day, I'm over 40 years old. And if I hit a deer a little off, it's slightly back. I've killed a lot of deer with a liver shot. And it's because I have deeply ingrained into my default substructure of action is to aim far back from the shoulder, which produces a liver shot deer. Liver shot deer is no big deal. You just give them two plus hours, sometimes longer.

Longer. Yeah. But that deer ran 120 yards and was dead as a hammer. It bled very little, though. because it was a broadside shot and we were hunting these little post oak trees in southeast Oklahoma. And so we couldn't get up very high.

And the deer was slightly kind of up a little bit of a grade. So I was almost shooting like straight at it. And so the area went in, the entry and exit were at the same level. And so by the time he filled up with blood that it just didn't bleed much. That's how it stuck in that tree almost flat.

That photo that you put on, I guess, Facebook and there's your arrows sticking in the tree? What was that? Negative. I was just holding the arrow. You just shot a tree? The arrow was not to teach a lesson. The arrow was not sticking in the tree. The tree looked at you wrong.

I just held the arrow out. I was just holding the arrow. You may want to look at that again. No, oh my goodness. Was it trailing? Was it feeding? What was it doing? Okay, so I'll tell you the whole story. It was a pinch point on the back of a big field corner where the deer come through.

They were coming through the backside of that corner, and they were feeding. I mean, it's just the way we hunt down here. Is that the only buck that you saw? There was one other eight-point buck that I would have shot. It's too long a story, and you'll hear it in the video when we play the hunt, but I spooked a buck that was tinned in a dough when we came in there at like 2 o'clock in the afternoon. So anyways, good hunt. There were multiple deer killed.

I think I can say this. Between the four of us, there were five bucks killed in seven days. Oh, nice. Yeah. So it would be a lot of action. You know, if I'm listening to this, I want to know what kind of bow you were shooting, what kind of air, what kind of broadhead? Were you in a saddle?

Were you in a, you know, what were you hunting out of? Yeah. I'd like to know that. Okay. Even though I know most of it, you were in a hunting out of a saddle. I was in a new tethered saddle. We hunted in those things all week long. I mean, we made multiple all-day sits in a tethered saddle.

Now, forgive me, I'm not moved into the saddle realm yet. Are all saddles tethered, or is there a difference? Tethered is a brand. Okay. There are multiple brands of saddles. Tethered is a brand, and they, as I understand it, were kind of, they were kind of the main player. They were kind of the leader.

They were kind of the leader that kind of reintroduced saddle hunting to the world. Settle hunting used to, I mean, people have saddle hunted for a long time. But used to, it was kind of this, it was just kind of like this quirky thing that, you know, your weird neighbor did. Does it not limit your ability to shoot a bow? It makes it better. Really? I think it does. I mean, just you have more radius around that tree.

You can almost shoot, if it was just a perfectly straight tree. you could you could pretty much shoot 360 degrees around that tree probably 340 there's probably a little window but you can spin all the way around the tree and you just have to get comfortable kind of hanging off of it but it it I mean I just put on a saddle and went hunting and was fine it's not like you have to practice a ton but you do have to get used to it you have to get used to kind of hang in and just how it works and making it comfortable and you're not scooting up like you are in a client Like how are you getting up there? So you got to use you got to use sticks or you have to have a method of getting up a tree. Right. So you still have to get up a tree. What it does is eliminates you having to have multiple tree stands and it eliminates you having to go in and hang a stand like the day before or, you know, you carry in something real heavy. You carry a saddle and some sticks.

But it's, you know, it sounds magical, but it, you know, it's hard to climb a tree no matter what you're doing. Humans weren't made to climb trees very good. It's hard to climb a tree. It depends on the human. He's pretty wiry, aren't you? I don't know why. He has special gloves. Special clubs.

I mean, 12-year-old me thought I was pretty well suited for it. I did it quite a bit. Yeah. Yeah. And do you have a like a traditional safety harness on as well? Nope. That's your safety harness. Gotcha.

You can't come out of it, you know? I don't know. The older I get, the more nervous I get. I want to be up high. I love being up high. I get nervous when I'm up there. Yeah. I like being up high, but inevitably, inevitably, when I get 20 feet up in a tree, I'm going to drop something.

You drop it. And then I'm got to go back down. And then I got to go back up. So 16 feet. 16 feet is the sweet spot. 16. Diminishing returns after that. How high do you like to get?

You know, 20 feet. And, you know, when I was younger, I loved to hunt at 24. You know, I think that if you do, if you do. 20 to 24 and you do a little bit of scent control you can get away with lots of stuff when you get down 15 16 17 I mean you got to be playing a win all the time you got to be real cautious you get 20 24 you don't even have to turn the volume down on your YouTube videos 24 that's right that's right yeah I mean that's been my experience yeah and this guy that we've talked about that has killed so many big bucks in another state. I mean, he likes to hunt at 30 feet. I didn't have the guts to get the

John Eberhardt's who you're talking. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, 30 feet, you know, he loves to talk about scent lock and how good it is. Well, you can, at 30 feet, you can eat a pizza. Yeah, yeah. I mean, so I love this guy. He hunts kind of the way I hunt, except he's successful and I'm not. It might be worth it just take a cup of coffee up there with you. But, you know, when he tells, I mean, what he does, I mean, it's a lot of stuff I do. And he likes to hunt food like I like to hunt. And he's better at betting areas. He's really good.

That's the real key to seems to be right now, is to learn how to get in bedding areas and the edge of betting areas. And I've never been too good at that. Well, this part of the world that we live in is so thick. There's betting could be everywhere. A lot of the places these guys are hunting is just so different than here. Yeah. I mean, it's agricultural,

fields, big open timber, and the thickets or the CRP is very defined, and it's like the deer bed here, they feed here, and that is just not the way it is in the Ozark and Washington Washington, Washington, Washington, yeah, it's just not. But you shoot the prime bow. Yeah, shooting a prime, a prime Nexus six. I'm shooting G5 dead meat broadheads. I like them. They fly good.

It's an expandable head. I used to, for years, I was fixed blade, hardcore. This year I started shooting those and they shoot good. You told me 15 years ago to only use expandable. That was, I remember, that was back in the day. And then he went all fixed blades. See, when I met Clay and started hunting with him, he was all fixed blade. So he talked me out of expandables.

And now he's gone back to expandables. It's like a good. It's like a little bit. It's like the ring on a tree. Why don't we go through. You've known Clay by whether or not it was, why don't we go through all the places is where I've flip-flopped in my life. According to all you guys' eyes.

No, I'm just kidding. How much time you got? My buddy, Chris Roberts, when he first started hunting with me, Dad, I was hardcore, scent control, you know, keep your clothes and plastic bags, use bacon soda, you know, take a shower before. I know, I know, you know, not, don't put on your clothes in your truck. I mean, hardcore. That is still what I do.

You do not do that anymore. How many times I rode in here? I did that. We don't want to have this conversation. I rode in Gary Newcomb's Jeep for years in my underwear to the stand. That was just a practical job, though. That was the necessary. He wanted us to do with his Jeep.

Oh, no. Yeah. I believe it. Josh. Well, I really, I don't know that this is the platform for this debate, but I basically, going back to what, or what I said about Dad, like, dad was just methodical with everything he did. And that's the reason he was a good, a good bow hunter. Was, he's still here.

He's still with us. When Perry was around. Just how much have you written off in this liberation? I, uh, no, about 12, 13, 15 years ago. About the time, Dan, you didn't hunt and were off away. I, uh, I, I just scratched all scent control. All sent control and went straight up woodsman, Josh. spillmaker.

And it turns out I kill more deer now than I did then. I don't know if it's a spurious correlation, meaning a correlation that's really not connected. Maybe I've gotten better places to hunt. Maybe I've got luckier. Just because Malachi is not here.

It doesn't mean we don't know what a correlation is, Clay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, you say you went woodsman. Just hunting the wind. Like if there's a south wind, you hunt in a place where the deer are going to be north of you. It's just that simple. If there's a north wind, you hunt in a place

with a deer are going to be south of you. of you and you just play the wind because what what i found was i would i would do my scent control to the to the highest level that i was possible that was possible for me and my skill set to do and i'd go hunting and deer would still smell me so it's like why am i devoting my whole life to this and now dad you tell them why you do it though because there's a good argument for using scent control stuff i like to say that it's a hoax and it is the biggest way for outdoor companies to sell you a product that you have no way of knowing if it works or not because you can't smell that good with your nose.

It's a perfect, it's a good business to be in. Wow. Bold statement. I mean, it's just true. I mean, it's like, I'm going to sell you a product and you don't know if it works or not. And most of the time it doesn't because you're in scent control and deer still smell you.

Do you see what I'm saying? You know, baking soda works. And you know if you wash your clothes in laundry detergent. I mean, you know you're putting all kinds of. Okay. You know, I've got some soap that's unsinned and it smells less scented than my scented soap. Okay. Let me tell you something.

I will. You're worried about your clothes. I'm worried about your soul. That's what I'm worried about. Since when, do you not care about sin? Listen. I don't even know who you are anymore. I don't know who you.

I'm out. Listen to this. Listen to this. A deer isn't scared of your shirt. He should be. is scared of you and you smell like a human. So it would essentially be like putting... So you're trying to wash the human off of you.

It would be essentially like taking a burlap sack and filling it full of cow dung and then being worried about the burlap sack, like scent control on the burlap sack. It's like, you're not... That burlap sack is not going to scare it. He's saying you smell like cow. You know what.

Here me out. Okay, okay, Tom. What if instead of trying to wash the scent off, I just go like a full-on 14-year-old boy and just blast myself with axe body spray. You can't smell the human for all the axe body spray. Okay. That's like a... This is cover sense.

Yeah, yeah, cover scent. This is a cover scent. We go cover scent. Chocolate axe. Now, I do believe in some cover sense. I've seen some cover sense that worked pretty good or confused or slowed deer's spook response down. To this day, every hunt this week, I tried out some new stuff, this Dan Fitzgerald deer dander, and I would pour it out on the ground

underneath my stand so that when deer cut my wind, they would smell human, but they would also smell an attractant, a deer related attractant, synthetic stuff. And I have seen that slow a deer's spook response down enough, and I've seen them walk through it too, not necessarily with this stuff. I didn't see it happen this week. So you haven't seen it. Okay, so... I've seen it work with dough estrus back when we could use real dough estrus. And even the synthetic stuff, I've had a dough come directly down wind.

I had poured a big swab of dough estrus onto the ground. So that dough sense, strong, unnaturally strong do scents on the ground. A deer cuts my wind. The dough just locks up and just goes into, holy cow, what's happening? I smell a human. But then she's like, and I smell a deer. and kind of freaks out for a while and then moves on through past your scent. I've seen it happen.

Not common. Most of the time they spook. Gary, what do you think about? I want to hear your rebuttal. That's the whole thing I've been wanting to hear. I'm not, what I'm saying is not the whole truth. I know that. We know that.

So why would you use scent control? Tell me what it would work. If you're a terrible hunter is a reason. I'm being honest with you. I mean, when I first started hunting, I really didn't even hardly know what a deer track look like. You know, I just knew some guys told me about it, taught me how to shoot a bow. They couldn't kill deer.

So I looked at it like a chess game. I thought this is going to be like a chess game. And I thought, you know, I've got to be clean. I've got to be able to shoot my bow. But as time went on, I saw very few deer that I spooked. I mean, I cannot. I had a big 10 point that I knew where my wind was going. And he came under my stand.

And by the way, I was asleep. I was sound asleep and I looked open one eye about every five minutes. I looked at it. And so I knew he was going straight into my wind. I mean, so I'm not stupid about wind and about scent. And I knew he was going to, he was going to spook in a minute because I'd had a dough come in and hit my wind. And I was only about 18 feet up.

But anyway, if you're 20 to 24 feet and you're in pretty flat ground, you can get away with lots of stuff. And usually when you're hunting big bucks, you don't know which way they're coming from. I mean, you think you know. Right. But they'll surprise you. So why not be clean if you've got the energy and the time and the desire to do it? Maybe it'll work.

Well, it will help. And if you listen to John, he says if you're wearing a beard, you've got long hair, forget it. Go hunt however you want to because it don't work. I would love to debate that guy. Hey, no, don't even say that, Clay. I mean, this guy has killed. This guy is one of the best hunters in a stinking country. And, I mean, if you hunt 30 feet up, well, I mean, hey, you'd be taking on the wrong bulldog with this guy.

I'm telling you. He knows his stuff. Now, you know, you don't have to do all this stuff. But it sure doesn't hurt anything. and a lot of times it helps. It's just part of my bailiwick. And, you know, I mean, you can go at it so many ways to skin a cat. Well, my, my deal was I realized that I was spent, you know,

you only have so much energy in your life to spend towards hunting. And I was spending 30% of my energy towards scent control. And it wasn't the limiting factor of my hunting. So I became a better hunter in other places and spent less money more. Yeah. So, I mean, if, in a person, perfect world, you would utilize some level of scent control and perhaps it would reduce your human odor. You know, if you study carbon and what it'll do, you almost know it works.

I mean, it's in everything. Carbon's amazing. You know, it's just activated carbon. It's just crazy good. Yeah. So if you understand what it's doing and you understand how to activate it and you got yourself covered but you don't cover your head, well, I mean, they're going to smell you. Yeah.

So you cover your head. Then you go, well, is your face covered? So I don't go to that extreme. I don't cover my face. But there's so many different ways to do it. I love talking about this. You know, who knows which is best. Gary, you're saying no beard, no hair.

No beard, no hair. And cover your entire body and wear rubber boots. And if you got the energy to do it, it doesn't work. You know, what Mark Kenyon will say. A long time ago, and I've been doing it. Backtracked. And you're killing deer, man. You're up a tree in a gilly suit.

What Mark Kenyon says, he says it simply, and it's the same thing dad says is that if it might help you, if it might make a buck stay there for five seconds longer before he spooks. Because there is an argument to be made, and I've yet to hear a single human give me a scientific reason that this is true. And I don't believe it. That a smaller amount of scent would spook a deer any more than a larger amount of scent. Because that is the thing that we're saying.

We're saying you can't, we're saying like if you use scent control products, then, you're reducing your human odor. So a deer comes down when and he still smells a human, he just smells less human. Well, it's less volume. It's a gas, so it dissipates the further out it gets, the most dissipated. What Clay Newcomb says is that it don't matter if he smells a little human or a lot of human, he's going to spook just the same about 90% of the time. But I just made that number up, number one.

Number two 90% of all statistics Do you see what I'm saying though? I see what you're saying But the more The less there is And the further it dissipates Okay

There's a chance he might not smell nothing Well I'm going off I'm going off I want to say decades Probably 13 years Of messing around With scent control And I have used

The ozone products Okay Just begged them to work I mean I wanted ozone to work so bad because it was going to be my silver bullet. And it just, I have deer smell me all the time when I use ozone. It makes an odor. It creates its own odor. And it might not be a human odor, but a buck goes, wait a minute. I've never smelled that before, so I'm getting out of here.

I mean, and I've heard that before. It definitely, you smell it when it's gone. And I heard a real good bow hunter, a guy that I know that's killed 300 deer, white-tailed deer with a bow, who's killed multiple 200-inch deer. You'd never know his name. He's not a public figure. And he told me that ozone was a joke. I mean, he's a stone-cold killer. You know who I'm talking about.

I don't think so. And I mean, he's the one that he said, that stuff's a joke. That's what he told me. It's because it puts off an odor. And then I've tried it for several years. My point is, and I don't have any trouble. I mean, this is what I think.

Like, now, I still. you'll see me, I used Sint Shield this week sprayed down my clothes a little bit. Just, I call it witchcraft because you're doing something that you know doesn't work. I can do a whole podcast on this.

Is baking soda witchcraft? Baking soda, number one, is in the Bible. So you're going to want to think about that. I think witchcraft is too for what it's worth. You know, what Gary says about activated charcoal is true. I have a friend who,

has a propensity to make a pretty significant odor himself. Have you guys ever heard of the product? Settlebutt? Negative. They are activated carbon sheets that go in your drawers. Wow. We talking furniture drawers or like... Not furniture drawers.

On my person. No, they work? Under drawers. Yeah. I don't want to know. Hey, I love the sick control conversation. I don't want it to sound like I'm trying to stir up trouble. but it bothers me that there's no way that we can prove it.

I mean, I could talk to you for an hour nonstop about all the reasons why commercial scent control products pretty much don't work. So anyway, I know I'm burning all these bridges. Straw man argument. I don't care about the commercial ones. It's wash your clothes and baking soda. Use some of that soap that doesn't have a whole lot of sin in it.

It makes sense. I dare you to put baking soda in my beard. Hey, let's talk about borderlines jaguars. Does they use a lot of set control? You know what? There is some theories on predators' ability to minimize scent. You know, in the animal kingdom, animals use scent for communication. So like a buck in the rut, he increases his odor so that his scent picture is bigger and yada, yada.

And I've heard it said that the predators can kind of like turn down their scent. We know that a white-tail fawn and these fawns when they're born, they're born like basically scentless, less odor and their mother cleans them. Wait a minute. So less odor equals advantage. I just disprove myself. Hey, go ahead and edit that 30 minutes out. Okay. Here's what I would say. I would love for someone to kill. convince me that I'm wrong. So please do.

That's what I'm saying. Why is the burden on us? Let's just say the reviews are going to go wild this week. Yes, yes. I would love for someone with a scientific answer that had 30 years of experience that wasn't drunk on their own spurious correlations. I was about to defend Clay. I don't know if I wanted to do it now.

But I was going to say, like, in the defense of you're bringing that up. The reduction is scent is to stave off predators, not to be a predator. So you're saying that the fauns have less of a scent, so they are less susceptible to predators or less detectable rather than you being the predator reducing your scent. You're right, Dan. Reducing your sin is good. It's going to be good.

One more flip-flop. I can't. I don't even know who you are. Last spring, Clay Newcomb and I collaborated with Jason, Phelps at Phelps game calls and building each of our own favorite turkey diaphragms called Prime Cuts. Now I'm going to tell you, I love mine because it's easy to use. I'm not going to go, I'm not going to win a turkey calling contest.

It's just not going to happen. But when I run this call, I get the sounds that gobblers are looking for. I have a great turkey hunting track record. If you go listen to real turkeys out in the woods, they're not going to win calling contests, right? That's who I listen to. I can make those sounds on my cut. I also hunt with Phelps's cut,

and I hunt with Clay's cut because they're all three great cuts. Check out Prime Cuts at Phelpsgamecauls.com. I think you'll be glad you did, and you'll find out that the Steve Ronella cut is an easy-to-use cut for beginning callers who just want to start making good turkey noises and getting action. Hey, Borderlands Jaguars.

Dan, what do you think? I thought it was great. I loved hearing more from Warner Glen. I think that was fantastic. I was thinking anytime you hear that guy, I think it was very interesting to hear just the whole idea of there being an animal out there that's basically called the one that eats us. Psychologically, that doesn't happen a whole lot to people.

Yeah. And an animal. I mean, there's kind of these freak encounters, but there's an animal that's a name, that that's a eater of us yeah eater of us pretty wild i thought you were just being dramatic i didn't realize until i listened to the podcast but i saw that on the title of the when it popped up on my phone and i thought this a little melodramatic play it's it's what that tribe in amazon they called the yaguaria they called it eater of us but in in modern times in at least in the united states there's never I'm quite certain there's never been a documented Jaguar attack in the United States.

But down in Central America and stuff, it's for real. A lot of the American Jaguars are vegan. Yeah. Josh, what did you think? Well, I thought it was really good. I love hearing the science, but I'm kind of with Dan, too. I love hearing Warner Glitt. Guys like that are disappearing and to hear stories about,

that's what the thing that I like about him is the pursuit that he has. has of the thing that he does with with for the mountain lions and and you know finding the jaguar and stuff but to really draw in family to to talk about bringing people together just the you can tell the passion and the care and the concern that he has for the animal the way just the way that he talked about it with such reverence he's not a he's not a he's not a doesn't have a bloodlust for animals he really has a passion for these animals and you know conservation and in and a awareness, even the way that he's like, I didn't know if I should go public with this. Yeah.

You know, just shows an incredible respect for the people around him, for the animal itself, for conservation. It was, it was very, very interesting to listen to. I really enjoyed it. I want to clarify something. So I put this picture, so in Warner Glenn's house, he has this huge, probably, I bet it's six foot long, five foot tall, that original painting that a really good artist. did of the picture that he took of the Jaguars.

The Jaguar is in the pose that he saw the Jaguar. But the artist put a little Warner Glen down in the corner riding his mule. Oh, really? Yeah, if you see that, there's Warner Glenn down there with a dog. And I had, so I made an Instagram post and said, Warner Glenn documented the first live Jaguar in the United States. And several people were like, no he didn't there were so many killed in Arizona and so many killed in Texas and people were like

you may want to go back and read that and I was like okay listen to what was said he documented the first live one so if someone shows up with a dead one in the back of his truck that is not a documentation of a live jaguar that is a dead jaguar it was the first documentation of a live a jaguar in the United States, meaning he took a photo, went back and showed the photo to people, and that animal was still alive. So that's all it was. But they didn't, they hadn't documented one in. What's a lifespan of a jaguar? You know, that's a good question that I don't know. Probably, probably about like a, 20 years maybe, Black Bear. I doubt they live 20 years in the wild. Probably like a cat. I mean, like a, interesting. Like a Tomcat, you know, live 12 years or something.

12 to 15. This idea that there could be an animal like that that lives, I mean, a jaguar is a jungle animal. It's just such a wild thing. What did you think of it, Dad? Oh, I thought it was very interesting. And, of course, Warner Glenn was interesting to listen to. And, you know, he wasn't satisfied with your comment that the first live

Jaguar that was seen. He broke it down further. What did he say? He said, I can't remember, really. Correct. But he said, it's alive. It was wild. It was wild in nature.

In other words, you can see them in captivity. You could see them dead. The first live wild jaguar. So he wasn't happy with your simple, alive jaguar. He went into, it's in the wild. Wild Jaguar in the United States. He did two or three different breakdowns on it. So, I mean, he eliminated the zoo.

He limited, you know, so I thought, you know, he's a detail guy. I mean, he's, he's really paying attention to details. But what caught me about the whole thing was kind of surprising, really as much interesting content as there was. But what stuck with me is the fringe animals. I mean, to me, that was just like Daniel Boone all over again. I mean, you got an animal that's, that has been created this way where, where you got a bunch of little crazy guys out here. And their job is to go find the boundary of where we can survive. I mean, I'd never even heard thought of that. I mean, that's crazy. And the way you brought it out, these were like the pine, what did you use the word? The frontiers, the frontiers made of the species. Yeah. Yeah.

And I go, wow, that is pretty stinking cool. You think about, yeah, I'm glad you said that. Think about it. A jaguar, he has no concept that he is on the northern range of his species. He doesn't know that in Brazil and in Bolivia and Venezuela is the core of his, like, if I went down there, there'd be a bunch of us there. This Jaguar is just living his life. And he goes north into the United States. And there just comes a point when he's just like, I got to go back south. You know, and there might be some functional things that happen.

Like he runs into cities, less game, more arid, you know, whatever the conditions. But he has this, he has this method. inside of him that's default where there comes a point when he goes no further and he goes back. That's me just about every time I get to our in-laws, every time I get to my in-laws house, it's like, nope. You got to go back. Go back south. Go back south in Michigan.

Well, Clay, it's really a tremendous survival technique. It's like, you know, we can all live here in this tremendous jungle forest and just, you know, be having a great life. but what happens if the forest has gone? Right, right. I mean, I need to expand my territory where that we can survive regardless of what happens. Yeah. And so it's in eight within some of those guys to be the frontiersman that's going to go out and find that fringe area, find out where the border is. And that's how they stay alive.

That's how they have survived. Well, there have been Jaguars documented as far north as the Grand Canyon. and hey did you hear me call out you and aunt ollie oh yeah yeah yeah hey okay i i got i got to say this in this book so i wanted to talk about this book i wasn't able to i just couldn't fit it in to the to the bear grease podcast but there's a book called borderlands jaguars by david e brown and carlos lopez gonzalez incredible book sometimes you pick up these smaller books like this and you know you might be unimpressed with kind of the writing and the the structure of the book This is like a top-notch, a top-shelf academic book.

Most of the information that I got for the podcast came from this book, Borderlands, Jaguars. You mean Tigres de la Frontera? Yeah, yeah, that was good. That was really good. Where did you hear about Deli from? I've heard about Deli for years. If you're in the hound community, you've heard of Dale Lee. I thought he was hands down my favorite part of this podcast.

That's storytelling. And I was curious, when he started. I just thought, where on earth did clay? Where does he find these people? How did you hear about him? I bet you liked him. Did you do? Oh, yeah, yeah.

He was, so Dale Lee was, is considered, you know, one of the best line hunters of all time. And that's so hard to say. I told, I told Steve Rennell the other day about Warner Glenn before I interviewed him, and I said, Warner Glenn's one of the best dry ground line hunters in the world. And Steve said, why did the dry ground line hunters get to, why do they all of a sudden get like they're the best in the best? the world. And I stopped and I was like, you know what? Because there's like four of them.

We say that all the time. But Dale Lee is known as this great hunter. But he was for sure known as the lead man in catching jaguars in Mexico. And I mean, if you want to talk about some wild stuff, talk about going to Mexico with a pack of hounds and these custom boats. Did you hear him say, we had these little canoes. Actually as a flat bottom boat with plywood and Plastic glass. Plexiglass. He called it plastic glass. I loved it.

He told it, I said it on the podcast, but he told a story, a hunting story like he was calling a horse race. We were coming down through there and the dogs said that little curved dog said yip, yip, yip, yip. And I knew that that jaguar was a coming. And then we went down through there and there he was up in a tree. And the old old I was farmer he was. I mean, his voice would ascend. and then descent. He did not sound Texan.

He sounded straight out of Arkansas. Yeah. I thought to say he's from Arizona. Oh, what a guy. Hey, there are 15 hours of tapes that you can get of Del Lee telling stories. Brett Vaughn, you can buy it from my buddy Brett Vaughn, born 100 years too late as his Instagram handle. I mean, I have the tapes.

Brett just sent me some, but I haven't listened to them all. That Jaguar call was something, wasn't it? It sounded good. Made out of an empty melon? A gourd. A gourd. And what did he pull through it? A piece of leather with rosen, some kind of rosin on the leather. Ty, did anything stand out to you inside of it? Yeah, I definitely can relate to whatever else that said.

I also thought about just conceptually there comes a point because, you know, as the Jaguar has kind of gone up and further away out of Mexico, you know, it's strong in the iconography of Mexico, but you don't see it at that borderline. and you mentioned how it's like when you see something rare but it's not super rare there's a place for it in the iconography and it's like this like treasured moment you saw the thing that we don't get to see a lot of and then when it's super rare to your point it's just like somebody shows back up to the camp finder just like I saw a jaguar and it's like shut up what are you talking about you ate some wild mushrooms you didn't see a jaguar and so it doesn't even make it into the iconography yeah and so that was really cool to tie that back even to the Black Panther storylines from all the way back with the first Bear Grease. And so, like, just looking at how wildlife

and experiences are, like, captured within cultural things, and then, like, there even comes a point where it stops. Like, it becomes so rare that it just doesn't even get captured or isn't even considered. Like, it's, yeah, it's not even sacred. It's just not plausible. So why, you? even draw it somewhere or write it somewhere. There's a lot to be, there's a lot that's weighing on the fact that the tribes of the Southwestern United States don't have Jaguar iconography in their culture because there are

groups of, there, there's a group right now, and I don't know all the details of it, but they have talked about Jaguar quote, reintroduction. There's a group that believes that there can be that, that Southwest Arizona, Southeast Arizona, Southwest New Mexico could hold 60 to 100 Jaguars, and they talked about releasing them into that area, which would be wild. And the biologist and everybody that I know is saying, like, why would we do that?

They've never been here that much. And that's what Jim Helfelfinger was saying. And Jim Helflfinger is a biologist, and he's like, there's just no evidence that they were ever hearing great number. And what Warner Glenn was saying was that if that happens, it just shuts down

that part of the world for ranchers, for hunters, for people living off the land. And his point was well taken. And I liked it and I wanted to put it in there. As he said, yeah, let's protect that cat. Put it on the endangered species list, which it has been for 40 years, 50 years, whatever.

But he said that critical habitat regulation locks stuff down. so much. De-incentivizes people from even wanting them there. He said, then people shoot shovel and shut up. Yeah, I remember that phrase. It may sound normal to think, well, of course, Warner Glenn didn't shoot that Jaguar.

It wasn't normal. I mean, people shoot Jaguars. I mean, I don't have proof of that, but there's, in Mexico, they for sure do to this day. I mean, that's the biggest threat to them down in Mexico is, like Jim said, people, the small-time cattle ranchers. It's their livelihood. On Jaguars.

He call them, was it, I want to say what he called it, reciprocity killings or something like that? There was a retaliatory. Retaliatory. Yeah, like that, even that kind of colors the nature of it when you recognize, like, they're not killing it for sport. They're killing it for retaliation because it's coming on their livelihood. But then they're just like, no, we got to protect them. It's just, yeah, like there's a, there's definitely a conflict there. I'm pretty sure that the Malpie Borderlands group, and I could be wrong on this, Alex, is,

there are groups that pay landowners if they lose livestock to Jaguars like so it's like okay you lost a cow don't go kill the Jaguar

let me pay you for the cow their placement costs for it so that is a big part of kind of the creative conservation that's going on but where does that funding come from and you know I'm not a Jaguar expert.

I learned all this in the last two months, you know. I mean, so it's not like this is something, this is all new to me as well. But it's fascinating that we have a big cat in North America that is like that. Did you notice that when you asked Jim, if he had ever seen any documentation for a Black Panther, he did not directly answer the question? I noticed.

You think he had, you think he did? I mean, it's simple no. Hey, I now remember what I was going to say about this book. I'm kind of just going off memory here. In this book, there is a map of the United States, and it was made a long, long time ago. And it shaded in places where jaguars were in the United States during this time. The entire state of Texas was, oh, I got to find it.

Because it wasn't the entire state of Texas. But the Jaguar distribution from this map, and biologists now would say, that that map wasn't accurate. But back in those days, they believed it. And the Jaguar distribution went up and almost touched Arkansas. So if there was a melanistic jaguar, he could have almost been in Arkansas.

Ali in Allie, I mean, you can't argue with him, okay? They saw one. How long was its tail? How long did its tail sound? Well, it sounded like it was the length of their body. What's funny is, how do you have? Had I not heard that, though. Like, I'm from Aranus past Texas.

Oh, here it is right here. Look here. Okay. Okay. Range of Jaguar in North and Central America, 1923 with the aid of the U.S. biological survey. That Jaguar Range comes up all the way into southeast Oklahoma and touches the red river in southwest Arkansas.

I mean, read it and weep, Alex. Did you ever send Alex a hat? We're bros. I haven't. I don't have hats anymore. That's the one. So there could be. Okay.

But Jim Heffelfinger says that there has never been a melanistic Jaguar documented below deep, deep South Mexico. Above deep South. Yeah, yeah. There's never been one above it. So Black Jaguar, kind of a stretch. So Aransas past Texas is where I grew up. And the high school mascot was Panthers. Really?

past panthers, and the panther was a black panther. All right. There you go. There you go. You know, a person in a black panther. Leave it to tie. But here's what's funny. Is in the most, like, remarkably south Texas thing ever, there was a seafood restaurant

called the big fisherman. And outside the big fisherman was whoever owned that place was basically like Tiger King from the 1980s because there was a ton of wild animals and big cats and everything. And had you. you asked me before you told me there weren't black panthers, I said, yeah, I saw one in a cage outside of the big fisherman waiting to go in and eat fried shrimp. But, like, just because of the iconography of it was still built into my head, my high school mascot was a black panther. There was black panthers there at the big fisherman. Like, all of this was just baked

in. It's just like, this is what it was. And so now I'm just like buried in lies. I don't know what's the truth anymore. You're not going to find it here. Oh, my. You know what? Listen to these podcasts again. It reminded me of something that I had completely forgotten about. Circa, 1986. My mom worked with this guy. My mom worked for DuPont in Texas, in Clear Lake, Texas, I think. Baytown, Texas.

This guy, we lived in this town called Alvin, Texas, and this guy lived there. And he was a big, like, kind of, he had like Clydesdales, and he had some other interesting. and I think he had some alpacas and stuff. But he had a jaguar. He had a jaguar and he had a conversion van. And he'd ride around with this pet jaguar in a cage in the back of his van. I saw it with my own eyes. Did you have to ride in your underwear?

Not in he, no, the cat didn't care what I smelled like. How long and or curly was his mullet? He wasn't actually. He was kind of like, kind of looked like Grizzly Adams. He was kind of a cool guy. He'd put his team of Clydesdales together, and he'd ride his wagon with Clydesdales through town. Wow. Yeah.

But, yeah, he had a jaguar. I remember going, he said, you want to see my cat? And he took me. Oh, wow. This is not the kind of guy. How old were you? I was 10. Oh, wow.

And, yeah, he'd open up the back of his van, and he had a cage, kind of like a dog kennel in there with a jaguar in there. Impressive. Impressive. Hey, okay, I think, I think it's time. I've been sitting on some original music for some time. Deep in the bowels of your soul. Hey, okay, me and Josh and Ty are going to play some music. I wrote a song.

I want to publicly state this that has Jaguars in it. I have no dreams of being a talented musician, okay? We like to play music because it's just fun. I have seen some people that like take, music kind of serious and maybe they're not very good and you're like, so that's not me, okay? I realize I'm not very good. Okay, but I do like music and I enjoy playing it. I wrote a serious song about Warner Glenn. And I, what do you mean by serious? I mean, like all the other songs that we've written, like, O Captain, O Captain, and the Bulldozer song,

like they were parodies. They were jokes. It was funny. But the Captain song was great. It was great. Well, those were joke songs. It was a joke to me, Clay. There's a line that you cross when you start writing serious songs. He's essentially saying all this for me. I, you know, Clay is just about an inch away. When he started writing a serious song, I was concerned that maybe I had a YouTube diva in my house.

I've been concerned about that for years. And I got super nervous. That's all my fault, Misty. I'm sorry. We're going to start doing this. but this is that's not what he's doing here so I wrote a song it's called the Ballad of Warner Glen

okay and I didn't I don't feel like I had a choice to write this song I really was impacted by meeting Warner Glen and I sat down and wrote this song in like a very short amount of time and Ty is going to play the stand-up bass and Josh is going to help me on guitar and we're going to sing this song Dan

you ready to hear it I'm ready they're going to just stare at Dan while they sing it Well, Dan's the only one that hadn't heard it. Dad's heard it a little bit. But, yeah, we're going to do it. I can get out the cowbell if y'all want me to. Way down south on the border of Mexico. Rattle snakes, lots of banditas where the cactus grow.

Dirt and spurs, feed the hounds, and let them go. As a boy, Marvin taught him. the big tom's road open country where the jaguar strolls saddle a 16-hand mule when the desert sun blows nobody ever told him this wretched life was a hard road to hold hiding the rising sun behind the chirokawa's foes he's mounted and moving and going for an all-day mule back stroll open country where the jaguar strolls lying track in the dirt seven miles into where did he go got a pack of wide walker dogs that are philosophers like the road hounds work the dirt like a farmer works as rose up the canyon round the rock chasing the ghost of the shadow open country where the

Jaguar strolls The only catch him if he crosses the plateau Chase him over the rim rock and old hook bays him in a hole It's not a line he seeks but a wildness he can't control Who I'm talking about is Warner Glen and the black crow Open country where the Jaguar strolls Open country and sage makes the old man heart grow, a poet in a saddle, but his words don't overflow.

He fought a law man and pleaded guilty just so you know. Sweat some bullets and sleepless nights, but they let him go. Open country where the jaguar strolls, a lesser man would have thrown another blow. But Warner knew to see him. solve his problems he had to grow invited his enemies to the table and their faces glowed broke some bread

all were fed and the rooster crowed Open country where the Jaguar Shroves Hey man, that's excellent That was awesome. Yeah Open country Hey I want to read these lyrics because if you follow along on these three podcasts

it makes this is a story it's a story of a lion hunt the way down south on the border of Mexico I mean Warner Glen literally lives on the Mexican border rattlesnakes lots of banditos where the cactus grow

he gets he gets horses snake bit and dog snake bit when I was down there with him for a day he was like watch out for rattlesnakes dirt and spurs feed the hounds and let him go I mean the man's life revolves around his dogs and I noted when he wrote

his mule just on an average day like when I rode with him he put on his spurs which I don't always wear my spurs but he put on his spurs so dirt and spurs feed the hounds and let him go and as a boy Marvin taught him where the big tom's row Marvin is his dad and Marvin they he hunts the same ground his dad did I mean he the exact same ground um and then open country where the jaguar stroll that's that's the chorus open country is the phrase that they like when I went down there I heard Multiple people say open country. And then I tuned in, it was like, ah, that's what you guys say.

That means something. There are books called Open country. Warner says it all the time. Open country. Where the Jaguar Stroll, it defines that landscape, this visitor from the south. Saddle a 16-hand mule when the desert sun glows. So that means early in the morning.

Nobody ever told him this wretched life was a hard road a hoe. Man, I tell you what, when I think of a guy like Warner Glenn hunting as long as he has, I think about the, I said it on the podcast, but I think about the number of times he hooked up his trailer in the dark, woke up at literally 2 a.m. To go feed his mules, load his dogs, drive two hours, get the mules out, and then be where he needs to go by sunrise to look for a track.

Hiding the rising sun behind the Chiracawa's folds, Warner is one of these guys that wakes up, like, early every single day. Chiracawas is the mountains that they live in and hunt. so hiding the rising sun behind the Chiracosfold he's mounted and moving and going for an all-day buleback stroll line tracking the dirt seven miles in but where did he go they they ride a tremendous amount you know when they're riding these on these hunts and this is my favorite line he's got a pack of white walker dogs that are philosophers like the row hounds work the dirt like a farmer works his rose up a canyon around the rock chasing the ghost of a shadow i like that line a lot

hounds work the dirt like a farmer works as rose yeah they'll only catch him if he He crosses the plateau, chase him over the rim rock and old hook bays him in a hole. Hook is his favorite dog, the 12-year-old dog, you know. It's not a line he seeks, but a wildness he can't control. I think that's true. I mean, like, when I think of the things that I'm after, like a big buck in a mountain, I mean, like I want antlers, I want meat. But really what I want to do is interact with a wild place.

That's really what you're after, you know. and a hunter being able to interact with a wild place by taking something from it is like super human and super intimate. So it's not a line. He sticks a bit of wildness. He can't control. Who I'm talking about is Warner Glen and the Black Crow?

What's the Black Crow? Where's the Black Crow time? Let me start that over. Who I'm talking about is Warner Glenn and the Black Crow. I'm just saying Warner Glenn is like, he's like part of the landscape, like a Black Crow. Just like a Black Crow. That's right.

Open country and sage makes the old man's heart grow, a poet in a saddle, but his words don't know. That was my other favorite line. Yeah. You can just have one favorite line. He fought a law man and pleaded guilty just so you know. Sweat some bullets and sleepless nights, but they let him go. What good cowboy story doesn't have a little squabble with a law? It's about a quarter country song, as it should be.

A lesser man would have thrown another blow, but Warner knew to solve his problems he had to grow, invited his enemies to the table, and their faces glowed, broke some bread. all were fed and the rooster croat. I like that last, that last course verse. Well, we're, yeah, we're done with the Warner Glenn series. Thanks, Warner, Glenn. Yeah, yeah, it was good. Nice to meet you. Really good.

I hope he lives a lot longer. He talked about, I remember him talking about, this might be our last season, him and his old dog. Yeah, yeah. I have my doubts. He's got a lot of life left in him. I can tell you that. Closing thoughts, Dan?

Bet Warner Glenn's pretty concerned about scent control. Yeah. Covers the dogs in baking soda. Ty, thanks for coming, man. Yeah, you bet. I was glad to do it. I've enjoyed the series on Warner Glen for sure. He's a kind of person that hearing about their life

like just kind of sparks in you a desire to get out there and do it more and not get kind of caught up. You know, I'm, I hunt and everything, but I'm on a computer 90% of my, you know, all my working day and everything, and there's something in you that's not fulfilled. And so to hear about people who make their living, that kind of way, it's just like, you know,

that may not be for me, but it definitely drives me to want to make sure that I'm staying in touch with the things that are tied to that so that I'm not just kind of getting caught up and computers and college football and such nonsense. I hear you. Dad, thoughts. Oh, it's just awesome.

You know, great guy, legend, and a neat animal. Love the animal, the big head, the strong jaw. They can bend a, what, a half inch. I believe it's a half inch. Half inch steel. I'm going like, uh-huh, it likes to eat us. So, yeah. Very interesting, very, very informative.

Yeah. Hey, the next Bear Grays podcast are going to be really cool. More coming. I'm not going to tell you what it is, though. Hey, thanks for listening. But if you guys want to call me, I'll tell you. Yeah, Josh, Josh was there. Keep the Wild Places Wild.

Hey, we miss Brent. Oh, yeah. Brent, come back to us. Yeah, Brent. I forgot to say Brent wasn't here. Yeah. Yeah. And Warner Glenn's daughter was extremely interesting.

Yeah, yeah. I enjoyed that a lot, too. Yeah, Kelly. Yeah. For sure. All right. Thank you, guys. Cint control or no scent control.

Love you all. You stink. Last spring, Clay Newcomb and I collaborated with Jason Phelps at Phelps game calls in building each of our own favorite turkey diaphragms called prime cuts. Now, I'm going to tell you, I love mine because it's easy to use. I'm not going to go, I'm not going to win a turkey calling contest. It's just not going to happen. But when I run this call, I get the sounds that gobblers are looking for.

I have a great turkey hunting track record. If you go listen to real turkeys out in the woods, they're not going to win calling contests, right? That's who I listen to. I can make those sounds on my cut. I also hunt with Phelps's cut, and I hunt with Clay's cut because they're all three great cuts. Check out Prime Cuts at Phelpsgamecalls.com.

I think you'll be glad you did, and you'll find out that the Steve Ronella cut is an easy-to-use cut for beginning callers who just want to start making good. turkey noises and getting action this is an i heart podcast guaranteed human