Bear Grease - Ep. 284: Render - The Highs and Lows of Trad Bows

Episode Date: January 1, 2025

In this episode of the Bear Grease Render, we welcome the new year as host Clay Newcomb is joined by Dr. Misty Newcomb, Bear Newcomb, and Josh "Landbridge" Spielmaker, as well as traditional bow hunter and self-bow builder, Caleb Flies. The room is lined with bows, and there's lots of discussion on the origin of the term "self-bow" and different build qualities of them. The crew also discusses their highs and lows from 2024. If you have comments on the show, send us a note to [e-mail] Connect with Clay and MeatEater Clay on Instagram MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, and Youtube Clips MeatEater Podcast Network on YouTube Shop Bear Grease MerchSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. First Lights fieldware collection is made for the work that happens long before opening day and continues when the season ends. Products built for early mornings, full days and real use. Hard wearing where they need to be versatile where it matters. No shortcuts. Just gear designed for the work that earns the season.

Built to perform, built to last. Check out. First Light's new field. Worldware Gear at firstlight.com. My name is Clay Newcomb, and this is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called the Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual Bear Grease podcast. Presented by FHF Gear, American Made, Purpose Built, Hunting and Fishing Gear that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. Happy New Year, everybody.

Happy New Year. Do you guys know it's the new year? Already? We're actually recording live on January 1st, 2025. I hope everybody's doing great. I'm doing great. We're not recording live. We're not recording live.

We're not. So we've got a great crew here today, Dr. Misty Newcomb. Hello? Good to be here. Very interested in your, to hear about your projections for 2025. Okay. We've got Caleb. Now, I would, I thought it was spelled flies, but you tell me it is.

It is spelled flies, but it's pronounced fleece. Fleece. It's German. Yes, sir. German. Really? Finally, there are Germans on this show. Another German.

My last name is Spielmacher. It's spelled, it's spelled Spielmaker. Nice. It's just so unnecessary. Over-dramatized. Vistie always used to talk about our, our, friends sometimes would go to Central America and they would come back and they would be like having a normal conversation and then just all of a sudden say I went to Managua, Nicaragua.

Yeah, we were down in Managua, Nicaragua. And then just like talk back in their American accent. Caleb, good to have you here, man. Good to be here. Thanks for having me. I just met Caleb today, but we've been internet buddies for a pretty long time. Yeah, a few years. I've followed along on your traditional archery stuff.

And so you're from. Norman, Oklahoma? Yes, sir. Norman, Oklahoma. Good deer hunting over there. Yeah, Central. Oh, wait a minute. Terrible is pretty good.

That's right. That's right. Terrible deer. Stay away from anywhere. As a matter of fact, go to Iowa. That's where people should deer hunt. All people should deer hunt in Iowa. Deer hunting Oklahoma is terrible.

Arkansas is terrible. But you live in Norman, Oklahoma. Yes, sir. And you're a firefighter? Yes. For the city of Norman. Yep. Nice.

How long have you been doing that? I've been doing it six years. I've been at that department for about four. Well, I'm going to come back to you. I need to hear, like, your best fireman stories. Okay. Caleb, do me a favor and pull that microphone just a little bit closer. Is that better?

How about that? Yep, much better. Okay. We've got Josh Landtbridge Spielmacher. That's right. Here. And we've got Bear John Newcomb. I'm also here to see it.

Now, we've got scattered amongst the crew today. We've got multiple. not just traditional bows, but what they call self bows. Tell me what a self-bow is. Tell the people. So the technical term for self-bow would be a bow made out of one piece of wood. It's shooting the arrow itself. It's not aided by a fiberglass lamination or bamboo backing or anything.

It's carved out of one piece of wood. So it's a bow in the purest form. Is that? So they call it self because it's propelling it. It is just, it's just made out of one piece of wood. It's doing all the work itself. And it's commonly confused with being made yourself. But I mean, if you made a compound in your garage, it wouldn't be a self-bow, you know, by definition. I never really thought of that. Yeah. Like, I made this bow myself. It's a self-bow. No,

you wouldn't say that. I would like to talk to the guy that named a self-bow, though. Yeah, it is a little bit misleading. It's, uh, the marketing's all off on it. I mean, what would be a better name a little more flashy. You got any ideas, Caleb? Well, just, I think they had to differentiate between longbows and recurves because Those are cool names though.

Yeah. But now you have... With me, Missy, you see them? You see where I'm getting that? Can you have a self-longbow? Yes, yeah. Like, that's a long bow. This is a long bow.

I know, I'm just saying that it should have been called like... Like a one-piece bow. A one-piece bow or like, like... I don't know. Rugged American one-piece bow. Is it self-propelling? Is that why it's called that?

It's just doing all the work itself. That it relies on itself for strength. Yeah, that's a better explanation. So there were a bunch of primitive guys sitting around clacking on rocks with these things, and they were like, what are we going to call these? And they were like, well, they wouldn't even have known what layman's worth. They probably would have just called them a bow.

Because there wouldn't have been anything else. True. Okay, so these had to be named later. Yeah. Because they were like, well, the Arab propels it. Yeah, they must have come up with this name after they had a recur. There's no wheels or there's no, you know, anyway, it really is the most primitive archery weapon. I never got into self-bows or I haven't yet.

I've shot traditional a lot. I was telling you before we started, I shot traditional archery pretty much exclusively for seven years. Like that was my go-to weapon. I probably did a few rifle hunts like out west or something during that time. but for the most part for for for whitetail and for bear for seven years and man I got into it really just to see if I could just to see if I could do it you know we so my we have a really is a part of our family not directly but David Albright is a really good do you know you know a guy named David Albright I don't know sir he's he's from Arkansas Boyer from Arkansas is

70s and he gave me a bow 20 plus years ago and he always hunted public land here in Arkansas and killed his limited deer with bows that he made and I was shooting you know compound bows and just felt like man that is a that's the way to bow hunt like I mean even nobody had to tell me when I met David Albright I was like this guy's a real deal and and I just was challenged by the way that he hunted. And he gave me a bow. I started shooting, but didn't hunt for like 10 years until after I got a bow. And then about 2013, I was like, man, I'm just going to go for it.

Now, I killed my first deer with a trad bow. I guess that picture right there, which would have been 2006. So yeah, I killed one in 2006 and then missed several. Were you wearing that baby carrier when you shot that? No, that, so that's bear on my back there, Caleb. That's neat. Yeah. So I'd shot that deer and came home, and I had to get Misty.

Misty was actually sick. Yeah, I got really, really sick. I'll never forget that day. I got super sick that day. I got a really bad migraine, one of the worst I've ever had, knocked me out. And Bearsy was his little puppy. And Clay had... Cub.

Yeah. A cub, is it bad? Yeah, it's true. And Clay threw him in the pack and went and got the deer. Yeah. So, but it wasn't until 2013 that I really started seriously hunting with it. And man, you asked me why I didn't hunt with it as much anymore. And I do occasion. I killed a bear two years ago, I guess, with a bow, with a trad bow. But. And a fulsome point.

Man, it is, it is, it's stressful to carry one of those things, you know. I mean, when you go out in the woods and your limiting factor is not, not only getting close to an animal and not being detected and finding an animal that you legally can shoot, but when you do all that right, and then you've got to make a shot instinctively, it's tough. So, I mean, period. Hats off. I just was like, man, I want to remove one of these obstacles to kill and wild guys.

And so I started to shoot my compounding it. Is that a sufficient answer? Yeah, yeah. You approve of that? Yeah. I mean, to each, Sarah, I was just curious because, like, you know, there are so many more lows when you're walking around with a stick bow. But, man, the highs are, like, nothing I've ever felt before. So, you know, like, I've picked up the rifle a few times since I started hunting traditional.

But I've shot traditional my whole life and hunted with a gun until I was so. 17 or 18, and then I shot my first deer with one. And, man, it just, it's so addicting that I was okay with seeing deer at 30 yards that I couldn't shoot because when I would get one at 20 yards and I'd harvest it, man, it's just the ultimate reward. Wow, that's compelling.

That was good. Yeah, that was very good. Clay your New Year's Resolution should be. That was way better than my reason why I quit. It's true. Yeah. Yeah. Too hard. Week. Weak. So, when did you start shooting traditional? Did your dad shoot? Did you

up hunting? I grew up hunting and fishing, but the traditional stuff wasn't really anything anyone else in my family did. It was just as a kid, like watching any kind of movie or anything, like from Lord of the Rings or, like, Legolas, for some reason, those guys with the longbows and recurves were always so cool to me. And so I had one that I would shoot in the backyard, and I would shoot 3D tournaments, like age 9, 10, whatever, we'd travel all over, and I'd shoot, my older brother would shoot compound. And then I shot my first deer with a recurve when I was 12 or 13, And it was like 25 yards and it stuck in right behind the shoulder and then just drooped. And so, I mean, it didn't hurt the deer.

And I just remember crying and be like, I wounded it. I wounded it. My grandpa was like, no, you're fine or whatever. But I shot a compound just because that terrible in my mind experience just, like, I can't, I can't shoot a heavy enough bow at that point. So I shot compound and shot quite a few deer with that and a rifle until I finally one day decided like I'm taking my recurp back out. and, you know, it's kind of rest

as history after that. Yeah. And so you're making your own bows. Yes. Just a couple of those bows. So this one, and I didn't really start making them until about six or seven years ago,

I went to that bow building festival. I was talking to Bear about called Ojam in Oklahoma. And I learned to build one there, and I just fell in love with it. Let me see that. Oh, that has nice decoration. That is Osage, orange, boat art,

and then it's just got a copperhead backing, a leather, beaver tell handle. Really snaky. So describe what snakey means, bear? It's basically like where the grain of the wood kind of goes back and forth like a snake, you know, instead of just straight. So this one has a lot of curves in the limb. And you're able to, when they're that, that what I, I understand it,

but it wouldn't be intuitive that even with that curved, that curved limb that boasted, shoot straight. Yes. If you can get that strength. Does your arrow weave and bob? No. As long as that string is... How cool would that be?

Is the arrow a snakey bow? If your arrow would like curve around brush and stuff, it'd be nice. That's beautiful, man. You're a real craftsman. Clay, describe that for people who are just listening. I don't know. Is that a 62-inch bow or 60-inch? It's 59-knock-to-knock, yeah.

59-inch bow. It's got a beaver-tail handle And two big copperhead skins Don't forget about the turquoise dots Are you scared to touch that? No, I said don't forget about the turquoise poker I was a little scared to touch it It was phrasing to bite me

Yeah, and that's a flax I made the string out of flax So I wanted everything for my Oklahoma bear hunt To be all natural materials, all primitive And so Yeah, that's my first attempt at a flak string And it works really similar to like a Dacron string It's really.

Yeah, like the surrogon string. Really? Yeah, like the search. Herving is even flax on it. And then I carved a little bear underneath the handle and then inlaid it with crushed turquoise. Oh, a little bear track. And so you tell me about, tell me about the bear in Oklahoma. Like you were the first one to kill one with a primitive weapon. Yeah, so four, I guess maybe five years ago, I went right after I got married,

my friend invited me on a bear hunt, and he was going to hunt with his long bow. And I was just going along to film. And so I set up in the tree and we sat three days, all day sits over bait. We finally had a bear come in. It was a cinnamon-colored bear came in. And I looked over at my friend, and he was asleep. He has four kids, two of our twins, so this was kind of his getaway vacation. He was tired, and I woke him up, and she was 25 yards sitting facing frontal, and she winded us and just left.

But I never had any desire to hunt a bear until I saw that bear. And it was my first time ever seen a bear in the wild. And just, I don't know what it was about them, but I just knew, like, from that moment on, I was going to be pursuing bear myself, especially in Oklahoma, because those mountains are where my mom's side of the family is from. So I grew up going down there every year. And it's just, so it was a culmination of all these different things

that were just kind of special to me. Yeah. But you were the, but you wanted to be the first guy, or you were conscious of being the first guy to kill a bear, at least in modern times and recorded history with it. a completely primitive setup. Yes. So you were using a stone point.

Now, did you make the point? Yes, I didn't have those. Okay. Because they're obsidian. Wood shaft, deer sinew, self-nox, deer sinew on the knocks and turkey feathers. So I tried for four years. Just I would have bear every year.

And then, you know, October 1 or late September, they really start pulling off. And then, you know, last year, just everything came together. Was it just last year that you killed it? Like 23? Yes, sir. 23. So the Oklahoma.

Two years ago. That's right. That's 2025. That's right. Yep. But it was, yeah, it was an addiction. Like my wife would probably tell you I was unwell. Like, because I live central Oklahoma's four hours from, you know, where my bare lease was.

So I was driving down twice a week to bait. And then last year I was doing that. And then I also going to Arkansas. So, I mean, I'd leave. A lot going on. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's cool.

Did it perform good on the bear? Yeah. So I got both lungs and then the stone point buried in the offside ribs. Oh, nice. You got good penetration. How far away was he when you shot him? She was like six or seven yards. I mean, right there.

Close. How high were you in the tree? I wasn't, I was probably about eight or nine feet, but because I was on a hillside, she was probably only five or six feet beneath me, really. Oh, okay. Well, it was a really, really close shot, and she was a good-sized sow. You know, the reason that we made the bear pit, have you seen our bear pit? Yes, and I've seen that video as well.

It was pretty intentional because I wanted to shoot a bear like five yards on the ground. You know, because I didn't want to be way up above them and get just one entry hole and then not get much blood. wanted to be on the ground and you know you could you could have made a little ground blind or something but I felt like digging that hole in the way we did it it would help us with scent and it turns out it's it's a pretty good strategy yeah and it's cool yeah yeah it's fun hunting in there so bear killed one in there this year which will be which will be really cool but that's awesome yeah so how did how did bears come out because I've seen your your video and it just seems to pop out of the side like yeah just right in front of you all the

sudden did your was you similar or did you see it coming from one's the first day it did exactly that it came around the right side of that triangle and then just stuck its head out like I measured it with the bow and it was like four inches past my bow so I mean it was like six feet or something but the second day whenever I actually killed it it just came in from head on and I shot it and you saw it coming from a long way yeah it didn't just swing around the corner like yours did but I ended up shooting it and it like you did it and like I ended up shooting it and like probably 10 yards wouldn't you say yeah but that's like that's part of the re when i didn't shoot trad for a long time that was part of the reason i dug the pit is because i didn't want to miss one

at 10 yards right i was just like i want to shoot one and that bear that i killed for real was as as close as that one was to you i mean it just was it just came right right out front and it was like three yards like from here to that light you know what's uh like filling contrast of being in a tree versus the ground. Because this year I was on the ground, and I didn't get a shot at any of bears, but is that like a whole new level of nerves? I don't know.

Is it bear? I don't know. I think it's pretty... When they just swing around the corner and you just don't see them at all, and all of a sudden there's a bear six feet from you, that's a little more... Yeah, that's a little more...

Yeah, it's a little different. But when it came in, just head on, I would say it was about, like, being in a tree stand. Yeah. Yeah. On Blood Trails, the stories don't end when the hunt is over. They just get darker. I've seen something in the road.

I instantly thought it was a sleeping bag. And there was a full of blood. Oh, my God, he doesn't have a hit. Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors. Where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce, and the truth gets buried under brush and silence. Indications were he should be right there. But he wasn't. This season, we're going deeper.

From cold case files to whispered suspicions, from remote mountains to frozen backwards. Each story begins in the wilderness and ends in darkness. Because out here, there are no witnesses, no cameras, just fragments and the people left behind trying to piece them back together. He's not an honest person. He's incapable of being honest. Somebody somewhere knows something. I'm Jordan Sillers. Season 2 of Blood Trails premieres April 16th. Follow now on Apple, IHeart, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Well, let's do a little thing here. Okay. So it's 2025. And let's do a little reflection on last year, 2024. Personal reflection, bear grease reflection. Well, I was thinking about... Reflection on the world. large?

I was thinking about like going through kind of your hunting season, highs and lows. Misty, you could amend that to fit what you want. Did you know that Misty is highly involved in a pretty sketchy quilting game? Quilting club, they call it. I had no idea. It was, this is going to be unveiled here. With my mother-in-law. With Josh's mother-in-law.

And another lady we won't even. and we won't even say her name. No. But, I mean, they're constantly quilting. They're constantly getting, you know, fabric from weird places and stitching stuff together that should never be stitched together. Real sketchy. It's absurd. Yeah, and they just spend so much time.

I just feel like it's taken away from their families. Black market fabric. No. I feel like they're... Remember this. It's really wild. So if you want to talk about that, let's reflect on that. You can.

Bear, tell us about your season. Start, you know, like, just take just like a few minutes. Like, what was, what were you, what were your first hunts? How did you do? My year started off really good, even though it was still technically last season. Sure. January, what'd you do? I forgot. January.

Oh, wait a minute. I thought my bobcat was in January. That was in December. Okay. January, I got a beaver, though. Shot a beaver. Yeah. With the self-bow.

Yep. Which was my second critter with the self-bow. So yeah, started out the year real strong with a nice beaver. And then a turkey in the spring, public land, Ozark Turkey, bushwhacked them. Then I... The honorable bushwhack. That's right. Honorable bushwack.

After you've hunted for like 10 days, you just do whatever it takes. That's right. Yeah. And it's probably harder than calling them up. Yeah. Well, and then I made my first bow and I, I, either February or March. Okay.

And then... So, well... Oh, that was... You were using David Albright's self-bow. Got it. So you made your... Your first self-bow. Your first self-bow.

Yep. Okay. And then, let's see. Summertime caught a 42-pound catfish. Noodle, the big catfish. We don't talk about fishing on this podcast. Oh, okay. And then...

Doesn't count. Late summer, I killed the... first critter with a bow that I made. It killed a hog with the copperhead. Yep. And then killed the bear out of the bear pit with the copperhead. Yep. Now, you're missing, I was hoping for a little bit more.

Okay, I didn't, like internal reflection on failure. Oh. Oh. Okay, well. I didn't realize what you were going to talk about all of our feelings. My first bow was a pretty big, uh, the, before I actually made one that shot, was a total catastrophe. I spent like, you know, six hours on it

and then it was like, I'm going to use a table saw, cut right into the back of it. Okay. Big mistake. So that was failure number one probably of the year. And then I would say probably the biggest failure was I shot a deer opening day with the self-bow, like right above it.

It was like three yards, public land, like a two-and-a-half-year-old eight point. and just shot straight down on it. And the arrow went all the way through it. It was covered in liver blood. So it wasn't ideal, but was still mortal. Thought I heard the deer crash. And then as I'm getting out of my tree, I hear it get up, take off again.

And anyway, I ended up walking like, and it was thick. That whole area was just as thick as could be. I ended up walking like 16 miles looking for it the next couple days. Never found it. That's tough. Yeah. So I would say that's... I helped you look for that deer too.

Yeah, you put down like two or three miles. I thought we would find it. And then the night that I shot it had like four people out there who also put down a couple miles. So there were a lot of miles put into that deer and we never found it, which was devastating because it just was like... Yeah, it was first day, public land over here and some tough public. land and he shot a nice buck he got a picture of it right before it walked by him yeah

isn't that right yeah it was like a it was on the bigger end of a two and a half year ago it was a nice it was a nice buck and i could see from being right above it like the tip of its horns i couldn't find it but i wouldn't expect you to tell that failure story but well that was the most that was the biggest failure that was the gut rich one yeah and then that started it all and from there just the deer season it's been tough deer season yeah okay okay so that yeah i'd say that's it Josh? I had four goals this year. Okay.

Outdoor goals. Okay. I only made one of them. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I had, my first goal was to kill turkey, and I went hunting and put in some miles and tough hunting, tough turkey hunting in Arkansas.

Yep. Couldn't find, couldn't get on a bird. My second goal, and I don't care what you say about fishing, my second goal was to catch a 25-inch brown trout this year. And I caught a 23-year. Three inch brown truck, but no 25 inch brown trout. Oh, man. So close. It's so far away.

My third goal was to kill a deer with a bow because I'd been out of the bow hunting game for many years. Yep. And I got back into it and I like, I really, like, I really put in the time and effort. You know, I tried to shoot 100 arrows a day for several weeks before deer season, you know, just really dial it in. just met with the the bow professional at the bow shop and he helped fix my shot and you know I really felt good about my my shooting and of course right early season had a really had a 30-yard shot at a really nice buck and all that learning and effort I put in went out the window and I just got bow fever and just shot the old style and completely missed him so that was the third failure. The fourth one was just to kill a buck this year and I got a decent, decent buck with

a rifle. So I'm happy about that one. So those are my four goals as I reflect on 2024, which, you know, we've still got a few days left here. I know we're recording on it. Anything could go out and catch my brown trout. I mean, not legally get a turkey, but I could kill a deer with my bow and you can get the 25. That's a good year. You know what? I'm proud of you. I think you just went out there and tried. I mean, I find a lot of times the goals, you set a goal, and then half of it is just going and trying.

Yeah. And then you're like, oh, okay. And you kind of set your expectations, and you're like, well, you know what? If I'm going to kill a turkey, I guess I'm going to have to hunt a little more than I did or go to a different spot or, you know, go in a different time or, you know, you just learn stuff.

What is it that the shepherd says the people who show up? are always there when when luck happens. When luck happens, yeah. That's a good quote. Yeah, he's full of inspirational quotes. I think it was a little tighter than that. Yeah.

He is full of inspirational quotes. Now, what I was actually wanting you to talk about failing man was, oh. Come on, man. No, I thought you would bring up our Montana bear hunt. Oh, I forgot about that. You didn't fail on that.

Well, yeah, that was also... You actually didn't fail at all, but I was hoping that would be in the story arc. Because it was a big deal. We were gone for like 12 days or something. I've been trying to forget about that. Thanks for rubbing salt in that wound. Yeah, let's talk about all place failures next. I'm open to that.

I plan to. You really don't have to focus on the bad things. I actually was just trying to get married. to talk about going to Montana and not killing a bear. That's all. And then now we're... But this actually,

it might play right into my hand when we talk about the Bear Grease podcast this week, the Bear Grease Time Machine. Yes. Because Misty said that she noticed a theme. Why don't you go, Midway,

go ahead and tell the theme that you noticed in the Bear Grease podcast. Well, listen to the Bear Grease podcast for this most recent week, and it was kind of a snapshot of like, some of the highlights for the best of all time, I guess. Well, just ones that stood out.

Yeah, ones that stood out. What I noticed is that they all kind of shared a theme of difficulty, trial, failure, suffering, you know, things that we typically associate with, not good. But, you know, they were all just sort of themes about, yeah, struggle and failure and what good came out of it. Redemption. Redemption. Yeah. Yeah, they were all.

I kind of picked up on a theme of just being some outlaw and three of them, which I'm not for, but I find myself interested. You talk about it a lot. Yeah, yeah, I do. I do. I think you secretly, like, deep down inside wish you'd been an outlaw in a previous life? Well, I'll tell you what it is. I don't think it's that. I think it's that Clay.

He likes people. He's always been really drawn to people who have a very strong sense of personal identity. True. And I think that in outlaws, he finds people who, in particular, personal identity that goes against the trends. There you go. And I think that in outlaws, he finds out. And that's why you married her, not me. Well, there's probably more reasons than just that.

A few more reasons than that. I think you're right, though. I do, too. I know you're right. And a lot of times I find, well, I don't want to. Yeah, I said on the podcast my intent was never to glamorize breaking the law. And somebody could probably make an argument that I have, but that is not my intent. I think you've made it pretty clear that the way these stories of these outlaws have turned out,

have brought redemption into either their own personal lives or the lives of their family members. Yeah. And so I think that's the thing that really is really celebrated inside of these stories. Yeah, yeah. Well, we're going to talk about those, but perhaps talking about some of our goals that we've achieved and failures will play into the later conversation. Caleb, how was your hunting season, man? I would say really good for this year that me and my wife just welcomed our first baby in May. Oh, congratulations, we were super excited.

We were married six years, so it was time. And I knew that was going to change hunting season, but I still wanted to do some bear hunting Oklahoma. I didn't have any time to go down there and bait or anything. But just hunting National Forest after a couple days and hiking quite a few miles. I did find a whole bunch of fresh bear sign. And I sat up on a spring-fed pond at altitude where there were a ton of white oaks dropping. And I actually had a group of turkeys come in. And I missed a turkey.

I don't want to leave bear hanging on the cell phone egg. So it was like. I didn't get a turkey either. Just to be clear. It was like 10 yards too. It was a chip shot. So. But then I came back home and then hunted.

I don't hunt right where I live. I hunt about an hour. I won't say which direction from where I live, but I did harvest two really, really nice bucks. And I was really happy with that. With your bows? Yes, sir, with myself bows. Man, that's a big deal to kill any kind of deer with yourself.

Yeah, and I didn't hunt that much this year. In the previous year, I hunted ten times harder, and I ended up with one with my bow. and then I did take the gun for the first time in a while and shot one with my gun. But for the amount of time I got to go out, I was really blessed this year in the woods for sure. Nice.

Cool, man. You know what? I think that if I only had like four days a year to hunt, I would probably kill more deer than I do right now. What do you mean? I mean because I would pick the four best days of the year to go hunting. I wouldn't it's kind of like I love to go hunting I want to go so I might come out after this podcast on January 1st and be like you know what I'm going to go sit in a tree stand for a couple hours and the and you know the conditions aren't great you know it's warm or or maybe I don't have animals on camera or whatever if you only had four or five days to hunt and you could pick those days you'd be going into your spots and they would be super fresh. That's something I learned this year hunting a new place that I was hunting

that I actually didn't get to go to until the first time I ever set foot on the property was on November the 8th. Never been there. Just seen it on X. And went in there and I mean those deer hadn't been messed with. They were, it was prime time, you know. And I thought, man, if I'd have been over here messing around since October 1st, Or, you know, I would have messed things out. I think sometimes not having much time is good. So you're not going to mention that you missed two deer that day. Oh.

It's not my turn yet, Barry. Oh, okay, okay. It's not my turn. It's Misty's turn. It is your turn. No, no. Well, I actually just peruse through my phone to see that was pretty good bear. I just went and peruse through my phone to see, like, what happened this year.

Kind of big stuff all around. We, Bear John graduated. You joined a gang. Oh, forgot about that. Bear John graduated high school. Our oldest daughter. Was that a success or failure? Success.

We made it out. We made it out. Our oldest daughter got married. So there's a lot of like wedding stuff in my photo, quick perusal of things. Watched a lot of basketball. Shep played a lot of basketball. Our other daughter has, she started. a business, got a new job, a couple different jobs.

Like, didn't lose a couple jobs. Like, God, where he's working two jobs. Yeah, working two jobs. So a lot of activity around the family. I did, I did, when my oldest daughter got married, I wanted to make her a quilt. And so I made one, and that kind of got some quilting going. and we decided to keep making them. So we made several quilts.

We made four quilts since June. Pretty impressive. That's good. Yeah. I wouldn't call it a gang. They're pretty moderate people, you know. Pretty moderate people. But I would say there's been a lot of stuff that I have not had time to do.

Would these be your failures? Yeah, these would be my failures. You know, I usually garden a little bit heavier than I did this year. We did grow the flowers. for some of the flowers for our daughter's wedding. A friend grew a bunch of them. So we did some things like that, but really after the wedding. You gave up?

Well, it's not that I gave it. I had a surgery right after, so it was just kind of like, we just were busy and the good planning times were focused on different stuff. We've gotten to the age where we just have surgeries now. But to be fair, mine was the surgery that probably should have happened when I was a teenager. I got my wisdom teeth taken out this summer. Oh, that doesn't count as the surgery. I was sitting here thinking, what surgery? Well, I didn't really want to go into all of it.

Thanks for mocking it. I'm sorry. Had a ridiculous recovery. A bearish listener bailed me out, though. Oh, really? Yeah. Big shout out to Dr. Cross in Fayetteville. If you ever need your wisdom teeth taken out, go to that guy.

Way to go to that. I had a kind of tough recovery, and I ended up pivoting to him. Dr. Cross and Fayetteville, Arkansas. Yeah, incredible. And I wasn't saying that I didn't know. I knew you had your wisdom teeth. that guy. I just wouldn't have... No, no, no, I wasn't. Let's talk about Clay's...

No, no. I'm right. It's... It wasn't like a life-threatening surgery. I'm just saying that the lexicon of dental surgery wasn't there. So I completely respect. He thought you had your gallbladder out and he didn't know about it. Yeah, I was like... I hope that if I have a surgery, Clay would know about it. I mean, I do hope that, I hope I would like to think that he would. Anyway, I just didn't... And then school started and things were busy, so... Great. You get to do any hunting? I duck hunted.

Yeah, you did. I did. Did you shoot one? I was told I shot an awful lot, and surely one of them is mine. That a word. Many, many rounds came out of your shotgun. I do enjoy duck hunting. I like, pah, pap, pap, pap, pa, pa.

I like just kind of going, yeah, I do enjoy duck hunting. Missy's like, say hello to my little friend. No, the one duck, she really legitimately killed. It was like six. teal that came in just like I mean they just swooped in and she just boom I mean just like

I mean it didn't even look like she aimed and we're like good shot damn it just about like that I think so yeah I do enjoy it and it's about time to go duck cut again in Arkansas Christy's filmmaker wants to go duck cut in

I want to set her up for a duck cut I think I can maybe work that out yeah Okay, I'm going to go chronologically, so I get to missing those deer. But I'd say perhaps the biggest failure this year was I'd hope to have a coon dog by 2024, and it didn't happen. In fact, we lost one. Yeah, we lost a, we lost a, not a good coondog, but a good dog. A very good dog.

Jed, a retired coon dog. He was, he gave us, he gave it. all. He did. No, yeah, we lost Jed. But I'd hope to kind of just get things in order to get a coondog, and I haven't yet. But in 2025, it's, like, happening. I've got, I've got a pup lined up out of Ohio that I'm going to go get soon.

So there'll be more on that. Spring turkey hunted, had a decent spring turkey season. Killed the turkey in Tennessee, killed the turkey in Mississippi with Lake Pickle. Had a, that was good. No, Arkansas turkey, so. No, no, no. Too sad. I'm kind of just letting them...

Not cool as this guy. Letting them do their thing without me getting after them. The highlight of the year, I would say, from a hunting perspective, was I went to Alaska on a mountain goat hunt in August and killed a mountain goat, which was one of the toughest hunts that I've ever done. And actually, a film is going to come out early in the year. early this year about the hunt it's going to come out on the media

YouTube channel which is going to be I haven't I haven't seen it yet but I was there so I had to kind of know what happened and it was

it was a very scary hunt most scared I've ever been in any hunting scenario well really any scenario on my life it got pretty sketchy with the high altitudes

and on a cliff or covering the goat got really sketchy so that was a big deal. Oh, I will say if I'm talking about kind of outdoor stuff, a highlight of the year, but also a struggle of the year was the Meteeter Live Tour, which was 14 days. Got one from like April 20th, like May 7th or something. And it was a great time. But I had to sing every single night, well, 10 nights basically in a row in front of a bunch of people.

people. And that was the life of the... How many record deals? Aside from the mountain goat, that's the most scared I've ever been in my life. How many record deals were offered to you? Dang, man. California. I'm still waiting. I'm still waiting. Still waiting. No, but I had a... I didn't really bear hunt much this year in the...

Oh, you did kill a bear in the spring. Your biggest Western bear, wasn't it? Yeah. Killed my biggest Western bear on a hunt with... with bear. We took our mules to Montana and killed a big color phrase bear in Montana, which was really cool. That I think we just got by the skin of our teeth. Like that hunt, we killed a bear and it turned out really good, but we were like that far from going home with nothing. Killed it on the sixth day of a seven day hunt and a spot we hadn't even been to kind of just, just like a desperation hike. You know, I want to say, I don't want to say we got lucky because we just, we didn't. did what you do when you bear hunt is that you just keep you just keep pounding you keep going to new

areas and there when the luck comes around yeah it's like shepp says you got to be there when the luck shows up but but we did some stuff right when we found where a bear was you know and so i felt good about that and then i had a good year pretty good year i yeah i had a pretty good year bow hunting for deer using my compound. How could it get better? Well, man, Gary Newcomb put this in me, and I'm 45, I guess it's not leaving. If I don't kill a buck in Arkansas, I just, I'm kind of like, eh. Like Gary Newcomb, he loved to bow hunt, Caleb.

I mean, he's still, well, he's not hunting a lot right now, but, I mean, he's still alive. And he would always, he would say, if you can't do it at home, you don't have any business going off somewhere else to try to do it. Okay, so you're saying it just can dampen your whole season. You can do everything, but if you don't get a home state, deer, okay. I mean, for real, I can't help it. Like, when I think about my season, I'm just like, yeah, I killed deer in Oklahoma.

Because he had a great season. A nice one in Kansas. And, I mean, I'm telling you, they just don't feel like they count because those places are so good. You did kill more, like, total inches of deer this year. like have you ever killed that many inches? Thanks, Bear. Just after what I did to you?

Yeah, exactly. Talking about his biggest Western Fair. I probably have. I had a couple of years. I killed two bucks over. I'd have to think about it. Yeah. Maybe.

Maybe. But you're right. And I'm not, well, I'm still got a tag left that I'm hoping to fill. But no, I don't want to. want to take anything away from those other bucks. I'm having, I had the time of my life hunting in

Kansas and Oklahoma. I truly did. But when I like in the corners of my mind, in the, in the darkness of the night, I am like, well, I didn't get one in Arkansas. But I really didn't hunt much in Arkansas. On blood trails, the stories don't end when the hunt is over. They just get darker. I've seen something in the road. I instantly thought it was a sleeping bag and there was a full of blood. Oh my God, he doesn't have a hit. Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors, where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce and the truth gets buried under brush and silence. Indications were he should be right there and but he wasn't. This season, we're going deeper. From cold case files to whispered suspicions.

From remote mountains to frozen backwoods. Each story begins in the wilderness and ends in darkness. Because out here, there are no witnesses, no cameras, just fragments and the people left behind trying to piece them back together. He's not an honest person. He's incapable of being honest. Somebody somewhere knows something. I'm Jordan Sillers. Season two of Blood Trails premieres April 16th. Follow now on Apple, Iheart, YouTube, or wherever.

you get your podcasts. Because Bear brought up my failures, the first time I went to this property that I got access to this year, it was November the 8th, never been there, and was just walking around. The first time I got out of the truck, I saw a buck and a dough, and I was just like, wow, cool, man, there's some deer. I wasn't expecting to really see any deer. the next time I got out of the truck I walked into a spot I wanted to that I looked up on on X and went to want to see it I got to the spot and there was a buck making a scrape like just right there and he just jumped out there like 20 yards and turned around and watched me and I was like I could shoot that deer and it was nice it was a nice little buck I'd have probably shot him and so the next time I just hit it at this like that day of the year you. year that it was just incredible.

So I said, man, the next time I get out of the truck, and I was just scouting, never been here, like, I'm going to carry a bow. And man, I'll be darned if I didn't get out of my truck and walk 60 yards and I see a nice probably three and a half year old eight point. And I'd been training for shooting a mountain goat. And so, I mean, I was shooting long distance. I mean, you know, on the range, I mean, I could dial that bow to 80 yards and shoot good. This deer was at 60.

And he was standing there broadside, not a twig between us. I had time to dial my side in, take my time. And I was kind of waiting for him to run off because I really didn't want to shoot at him. What podcast listeners are missing is Clay loosening up his shoulders and do a little dance beforehand. I was kind of just like, and I was just like, come on. on, dude, run off. And he didn't run off. And so I just drew back and put it low because I knew he was going to duck the string.

Shot. And by the time the era got there, he was about probably eight feet to the west. And that area just went, clang, clang, clang, clang, clang. I'm seriously, he didn't duck. He anticipated it. And so I did shoot at that. deer and then that afternoon I didn't have time to hang a stand and I I just found a little pinch point and and sat down in this pinch point and built a little little brush blind out of

cedar bushes and I was I didn't have a chair to sit in so I was kind of moving around a little bit but I was I was hidden pretty good and but I couldn't see beyond the bushes it was kind of one of these deals where I had to kind of lean up. Right. And I knew if I heard one or saw one coming, I could stay hunkered down, draw back, and then do whatever I was going to do. Well, this buck, I heard this buck and messed around, and I think he saw me moving a little bit in the bushes.

Were you shimmied a little bit? And I think it was, it was, that day they were rutting so hard. I think that buck saw movement and just ran straight. towards it because he literally ran straight towards me and I'm like holy cow here he comes and and I get my bow and get drawn and about the time I get drawn he just like slams on the brakes at about five yards I mean he was coming to me right there's no reason for him to come over there anyway he he I didn't want to shoot him head on and he uh that's not that's not true I didn't draw my bow yet I got ready and he bounced there and I would

just kind of had stare down and then he took two big bounces and i drew and i thought he was 30 and he was 24 and it just shot right over his back that was the same day so i can't i was calling bear every every deer i saw i was just like i just missed one i just saw one i just couldn't do so there we go sorry to bring it up but i felt like i had to yeah you did you did you absolutely had to um Wow, have we been talking 46 minutes? Yeah. What did you all think of the, what did you think of the podcast? Caleb, would you have heard some of those podcasts before?

I'd heard Gerstalker. I'd heard the Donnie Baker. I think I heard one of Warner Glens. Yeah. So I'd heard those and then the rest were the first time I'd heard those clippets. Yeah. Yeah. Any of them stand out to you?

Like, do you have any thoughts about? Yeah. the Gershalker one, you know, just really the thing that stood out to me was the dogs. So, like, I grew up, we were homeschooled and we always had dogs. We raised boycanspaniels and sold them. And so we had a lot of good dogs. And as a kid, like, when you're raising a lot of dogs, you're going to see some, you know, die. And so we lost some good dogs.

And, like, I just think about how much, you know, that hurts and doesn't feel good to lose a good dog. And then I was at work last night. My wife calls me and I could tell something was wrong. And so it's like, oh, no. and she told me that our family dog of 10 years she had found last night dead. Really? Yeah. Just yesterday.

Yeah. Oh, that's a bummer. That's tough. Yeah, it was our family dog. My mom had rescued off the streets and whatever 10 years ago. And just a really good, great Parenthese, Anatolian dog that just was a good guard dog for the property. And so I'm like, oh, man, that makes me feel sad or whatever. And then when you listen to that, and I'm thinking about this dog that's on a property that I

every day that I pet occasionally, you know, like that hurts to lose that dog. And I'm thinking about these guys on the frontier and this dog is, you know, not only their companion in this remote expanse of wilderness, you know, some nights are by a fire and that's the only friend they may have, but they're relying on that dog to put food on the table and then to watch four of those dogs get killed, you know, in a few seconds. Like, I can only imagine, like, the heartache and, like, that's obviously why they risk their lives to, you know. Yeah, yeah. So then, you know, and then to you know, Gerstock to wake up the next day, like, seeing it's not a bad dream. It's real, like, for your dogs and your friend.

Like, man, that's just, that's just sad. Yeah. Yeah. It just, like, breaks your heart. Yeah, yeah. That was a wild story. That, that, every time I read it or hear it, like, there, I'm just, it's just such a wide. It just has so many complexities in it from, from them bear hunting in the 1840s, which is cool.

but them bear hunting with hounds owned by Native Americans. And then I can't remember if in that little section it said it, but there was Cherokees and Choctaws in that camp. And then for the bear to kill him. And, you know, there's a lot of little inference points of authentication when you hear some of these old stories. Because, you know, some stories are like tall tales and just aren't true. Right.

But when I heard that story and I heard that, Gersh Gershacker went in to save the dog, or Erskine went in to save the dogs. That is the exact response that, like, every big game houndsman would have. It would just, like, period. Which is kind of surprising, because you would think if your dogs were attacking a bear, like you wouldn't risk your life to save the dog. You just wouldn't be, like, dogs are just a tool, you know? If they die, it's not that big of a deal.

But holy cow, you're exactly right. I mean, these houndsmen view these dogs. I mean, they hold them in very high esteem. And they did back then. And I think if that story was made up, they wouldn't have done that. I mean, I'm not even suggesting that the story isn't real. But like a point of authentication, like, yeah, those guys. How big do you think that bear was?

Shoot, I don't know. It wouldn't have been very big to kill a man and a bunch of dogs. I mean, a lot of times these guys say that the, the smaller bears are the bad ones, you know? You saying that there's a, I heard Michael Lewis, who's a well-known author, he was given an interview, and he said the fiction, when you're writing fiction, it has to be plausible. When you're writing truth, it doesn't.

Yeah. And if they wouldn't have had a, I'm just thinking about it, You would not have thought people would give their lives for their, risk their lives for their dogs. Yeah. Bears grease. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Bears grease. Yeah, I was going to say that story, when I read that, I don't know when it would have been in the early 2000s sometime. That was the first time I'd ever consciously seen the word bear grease was him talking about his dog. and I was like, Bear Grease. And then I went and, and that's kind of what put me on the trail

of rendering bare fat. And anyway, I give credit to Old Gerstocker for that. I like it. I always thought the dog's name was actually Bear Grease, but it was Bears Grease. Bears Grease. Definitely.

Yeah. But that story was translated from German. Right. Into English. So Gerstager wrote it in German. Like the dude could barely speak English. but you guys might understand you might be able to interpret it fleece and spielbocker Josh which one stood out to you

you know I'm always impacted when I hear stories about Warner Glenn I think you know talking about redemption I have great admiration for a man who makes a big mistake and learns from it and I think I think you could tell in his voice and in the way that he communicated about assaulting the border patrol agent that he recognized that, hey, this was me letting my emotions and my feelings come unchecked and having a physical response to that. And I think that's something that he showed great gratitude that he didn't go to jail. You know what I mean?

He recognized like this could have gone south really, really quick. And he didn't let it happen again. I think that taught him an incredible lesson. And to be able to learn a lesson from a situation like that, you know, there's a scripture that talks about a wise man falls seven times, but it's in the getting back up that is where the honor comes from. And I think he got back up, you know, and he learned from it. And so I think that's the one that really stood out to me.

And you know, the rest of that podcast, it talks about how he became this really strong diplomat dealing with people that had way different viewpoints than him. So it wasn't necessarily dealing with border agents. I mean, but he dealing with the federal government, dealing with through his, that Malpie borderlands group, like they became like really effective. And so he had to kind of like slow down. But yeah, Warner Glenn.

Yeah, if you hadn't listened to that episode, it's a it's a I wish I wish test has got something treat out here you see a squirrel uh yeah no that Warner Glenn really when I got to know Warner Glenn that episode I literally drove to Douglas now we we drove we and Mike Schultz drove to New Mexico and just met with him for a few hours and then left But I would later come back and spend five days with him at his ranch and when we filmed. And that's when I really got to know Warner. I kind of wish we'd have done that episode after.

I think it would have been, it would have been a little better. When I heard it, just pulling a clip out of the podcast, I recognized that we didn't have the rapport that we would later have together. But I came home from that trip with Warner and was, truly impacted by the man's humility, work ethic, and the way that he made everyone feel, I don't think I've ever been around a person that did what he did. And it wasn't just what he said. It was just who he was. But he would, the way he would treat the cameraman, these guys that, you know, are like behind the scenes, he was just like super encouraging. He was just like, super encouraging.

encouraging non-stop. And I came home and really was impacted by Warner Glen. Yeah. And incredible work ethic. One time, he was waking up. We had a big film crew. And so he was saddling like seven mules and then trailered him. And we were trailered him like two hours to where we were line hunting.

Oh, wow. And we were trying to be where we were line hunting by daylight. So he was waking up at like 3 a.m. To saddle mules. Wow. And one day, he, he,

I said, hey, I'll help you saddle the mules. And he said, okay. He said, be out here in the kitchen. And I,

I promise you, Misty, he said, 3.15. Mr. Warner, if you're listening to this, know that I love you.

He said, be out here at 315. Well, so I'll wake up. up about three and get dressed. And I keep hearing him out in the, out in the kitchen. And he's like out there early. And I step out there at 315 and he's like, he didn't say anything, but I could tell I was late.

Right. And I was like, 315? I don't remember the exact, but I remember him being like, you're late, young man. And I was like, I didn't defend myself. I was like, I have a pretty sure he's that 315, not three. He was very nice to me, but I could tell I let him down. So, Mr. Warner. I have a feel of the Warner Glenn's not going to listen to this episode.

Yeah, I think not. Probably so. Bear, which ones did that to you? I think definitely the Gerstocker one, too. Really? Yeah. Because I would have grown up, like, hearing that story. That was your bedtime story.

Yeah, whenever I was a little kid, you were, like, reading that book to me. but there are a few interesting points. The first one was that he said like the wolves came around and started howling. Yep. Which like we don't have wolves here anymore. I guess that would have been like red wolves though. Yeah, I think I made a mistake. I think I said gray wolves, but there wouldn't have been like a gray wolf or a timber wolf.

It would have been, yeah. What was interesting about it was that like 200 years ago or however long ago that was. It was like a totally. different world. Because wasn't he after like a woodland bison? Yep. And I mean, he killed, he was here seven years and he killed one single woodland bison. And he, and he, that's why he came to Arkansas was he wanted to kill a bison.

Wow. Yeah. But yeah. And like, I know like hearing that, read, that, those stories growing up and then now, like, hunting in those areas or just kind of, you know, in the Ozarks. general, just kind of going around, it's like, it's pretty unique to think how, or it's just cool to think of how different it would have been then. Because like, you go to, like, areas where they've never logged before and the trees are like giant in the woods are just like totally different. And it's like, that's how everywhere would have been. And so like now whenever I'm

kind of out and about, it's like, it's hard to really comprehend, but like the woods would have looked, like he would have been in like a totally different environment. It would have been a little bit like a different planet. Yeah. And so, yeah, I thought that story was really cool. But then the other one was just kind of like the, yeah, how wild of an experience that would have been. Like the part that really got me was, you know,

Erskine's arms lifting up and his eyes wouldn't shut. And like just, yeah, you can just imagine now. He had to lay rocks on Erskine's eyes. that his eyes didn't glimmer in the fire and freak him out. Yeah, but yeah, it just would have been, and then the dead dogs and the dead bear. I like how he described how people on the American frontier die like that all the time. And he said their memories are just for the guy.

Gerstocker was a, he was a master storyteller. I mean, he really was. And how it translated from the German so powerfully into English is, I mean, maybe that's common, but usually I feel like you would be able to kind of tell that it wasn't quite right. But whoever did that, I think, did a good job because it is written, it is hard to read. Like if you, I remember when I made that section, it was like, ended up being like 11 minutes years ago when I made it. It took me like an hour and a half to read it because I would mess up. Like you would, because the Senate structure was often, but it still sounds good to the ear.

On Blood Trails, the stories don't end when the hunt is over. They just get darker. I've seen something in the road. I instantly thought it was a sleeping bag. And there was a full of blood. Oh my God, he doesn't have a hit. Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors, where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce. and the truth gets buried under brush and silence.

Indications were he should be right there, but he wasn't. This season, we're going deeper. From cold case files to whispered suspicions, from remote mountains to frozen backwoods. Each story begins in the wilderness and ends in darkness. Because out here, there are no witnesses, no cameras, just fragments and the people left behind trying to piece them back together. He's not an honest person. He's incapable of being honest.

Somebody somewhere knows something. I'm Jordan Sillers. Season 2 of Blood Trails premieres April 16th. Follow now on Apple, Iheart, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, so that and then... Oh, he's got more? Yeah, I got more. The whole story was wild. But, like, how tough he was. Like, to not, you know, he said he didn't make a noise whenever they snapped his shoulder.

older back into place and then riding back, he just said he was in like immense pain but like over and over just talked about how he wasn't going to even acknowledge it. Yeah. But yeah, overall that story was just didn't have microplastics

back then or mock estrogens. No. In the water. That's right. I mean, for real. Yeah. I mean, everybody talks about how somebody sent me a picture of the day about saying they know like men used to be tough is like a guy carrying a deer or something. old black and white picture.

Yeah. And it's kind of, it was, you know, people say that kind of stuff all the time. But it's actually quite true. I like how Clay looks at me for corroboration whenever he does these things. Is it true, Misty? Is it true? Well, yeah, that there are those things now? Yeah.

Yeah, it is true. But it always, it always puts me on the spot because Clay is, he's a good storyteller. I don't know how far Clay would have actually gone in the research world because there's a lot of caveats to almost everything, you know, you, like, exception, exceptions to the rule. And it, it drives me bonkers sometimes when we, when we walk out here. I'm just like, I don't know if you could actually say it quite like that. And we'll, I'll tell him what, what he got wrong. And he's like, yeah, but that's not the point.

Yeah, it's his show, though. You can say whatever he wants. And he's not lying. He's just not, like, well, but then there was this one instance. He's a storyteller. He's a storyteller. He's a researcher. Yeah. I'm a researcher.

You are a researcher, but you're not a academic, you're not a lecturer. You're not a lecturer. You're a storyteller. Okay. Yeah. On the render, the render is just informal conversation. I got you. Yeah.

You know? Yeah. Yeah. No, I think it's great. I think it's great. I think it's good. He takes it. He makes things interesting and accessible to people.

Wait a minute. We're talking about, we're talking about, uh, basically testosterone and estrogen. Yeah, right. Yeah, they were tough. That's true. Yes, they were tough. They were tough. They truly were.

And you look at those guys compared to today, too, they were smaller men. You know what I mean? Just on average, you know, the height of an average man was probably 5-7, 5-8. Boone was 5-8. Yeah, exactly. So you got these guys that just had tremendous, tremendous athleticism, physical prowess that were to According to today's standards would be little guys, you know, that had all these things that they did. You know, so have we done everybody's?

Misty, which one stood out to you? Well, is it Mr. Britt? Mr. Britt, David Davis. That story, when he tears up in that story, and you ask him about what that was like, and he's probably, what, 85 years old? Well, he was 89 then. He's 92 now. He's 92. Okay.

when he tells that story and he thinks back to when he was 13 and his dad died and he had to go to work and buy the farm. And he got teary. I thought that was just a very human moment. And he is, he's treated very well by his descendants. I mean, they really respect him and he has earned it. I mean, he's clearly, clearly earned it. But that is truly an incredible story. And you think about the value of that land now, you know, that's out there where it's almost impossible to buy land out of.

there now if you grew up there it's so expensive and him being a 13 year old and bought it with a grew a crop of tobacco i'm thinking about growing a crop of tobacco yeah i knew i actually thought i hope neither of our boys listen to this today because they might be coming in with a proposal for our so i tried to find a way to tell this story in the v-o about mr britt but i just couldn't do it i just couldn't figure out of it it was just a little too clunky of a story but the first time i stayed with Roy Clark is his son-in-law. So Mr. Britt, Mr. Britt stays with Roy a lot at their house. He kind of has a room there.

And the first time I stayed and hunted with Roy Clark in East Tennessee, I went to his house late in the evening. And Roy was like, well, you can stay down here. They had a bed kind of in the basement. And I went down there. And he said, my father-in-law is down there. you kind of off in a little side room and he said, just so you know, there's like

somebody else down here, you know. And so anyway, I didn't think much about it and just went to sleep. In the next day, I met Mr. Britt and he, you know, he would sit over there and not speak. Yeah. Like he, you know, you kind of got to talk to him

to get him to talk, but he's very attentive, very together. He knows what's going on. Anyway, I introduced myself to him. I said, Mr. Britt, my name. name's Clay. And he said, he said, I was afraid you're going to rob me last night.

And I was like, no, no, I wasn't. I wasn't. I can't remember the way, just the way he said it, but basically, you know, it's like I'm coming into his house.

He doesn't know who I am. It's the middle of the night. He knew I was coming, but he was just like all night. He was just like, Who is this guy? Anyway, Mr. Britt, a little clunky. A little story's a little clunky.

Did you tell your favorite one? I did. You did? Okay, just making sure. Yeah. Man, I don't know that I had a favorite one. When we came up with those, we had this idea to do like a time machine podcast, and I just instinctively. Yeah, just rattled off like five or six.

And so that's what I, so they, we didn't, we didn't think about it. It was just like what stood out to me. And I'll never forget when Mr. Britt told me about buying that land. I'll never forget when Warner Glenn told me about, you know, beating up that officer. I'll never forget when I'd known Louis Dale and Charlie in where I was from my whole life and knew their story and, or knew a part of their story. Yeah. And then when I finally kind of gave it the story enough attention to go to Stoney and say, hey, tell me about your dad and your uncle.

First thing he did was pull out those newspaper clippings from 1926 when their uncle was killed, you know, murdered. Yeah. And his other uncle shot in the ear. Yeah. And a cundon. Who they grew up with their whole life. Like Uncle Andy, they called him.

I mean, just died, like, I mean, in recent times, I mean, you know, and who had half an ear his whole life. And then going, oh, I get it. You know, I kind of see at least the start of kind of how this family got going the way they were, you know. I just never forget that, you know, and it's kind of like, people are the way they are a lot of times for reasons that can go way back. And that, again, that doesn't justify it. But I think if you understand that, you have the right to overcome stuff, you know, because sometimes stuff like that's blind. Like you don't know why you're this way.

You don't even realize you're this way. Yeah. And then, but so it's like just awareness of your own life, your own past, the way you were raised. It's powerful, I think. So I'll never forget that. The Gershchalker thing, favorite story of all time. And I think I learned something. When I made that Gerstocker podcast,

that was actually the third. It was played as the fourth, but it was the third episode of Bear Grease that we ever made. And I remember it being an 11-minute section of me just reading a book. And I just thought, there's no way that this is going to be good. And I read it, and we put music to it,

and we put it in context, and it just like hit. and it's kind of like we learned something, you know, that you could, you could, I mean, a good story is a good story no matter when it's told. And, and that was the story that Rogan talked about on his podcast and he liked, you know, and I mean, it just, it just kind of gained a lot of traction. But I felt like I learned something there and that hat tip to Gerstocker for writing a good story. well being yeah but teaching me what bearerese was yeah um and then donnie baker i had to include donnie baker of all the episodes i've all the interviews i've ever done i was probably most surprised by his because partly mainly because i didn't know him had no information on him nobody referred me to Donnie Baker. Donnie Baker had reached out to me just probably like you did years ago.

I mean, just talking about something, you know, and I'd messaged him back. And then he just threw out like a very short sentence about how he got in trouble with a law a few years ago and had killed this 209-inch buck. Like he wasn't, he was, he just said it to me. And it made sense in our context. And I just immediately just said, would you be willing to tell me about that? And he was like, sure. And I called him on the phone for a pretty short conversation and basically was like, well, I'm going to be in Missouri next week.

How about I just come by? And I told him, and he would tell you this today, I told him, I said, Donnie, I don't know if I can use this episode. So please don't have your heart set on. Heart set on, you know, what we're going to do with this. And I also was just like, hey, you don't have to do this. Like, I don't want you to feel compelled because he was a big, he liked Bargeries. And I felt like he was just kind of doing me a favor, which was kind of odd to me, that he would be like, well, sure, I'll tell you about this, like, terrible thing.

Yeah. That happened, you know. And so I was like trying to feel him out, like, are you doing this just? because if you're doing this for me, we're not going to do it. Like, I don't want to, like, drag up your dirty laundry. Right. Just so I can have something sensational. So we can just peer in and look at somebody who did something wrong.

But so I kept trying to figure out, like, why he would talk to me. And so I basically just said, let's just try it and we'll just see. We'll just have a conversation. And, I mean, usually when I interview someone, you really, you kind of, you kind of, you talk to them and you ask them questions and you kind of come in from this way and that way. And I remember, we just put the headset on and I just said, I've got the recording. I've listened to it before. I gave like a five-minute preamble of me just being like, well, where are we going to start,

Donnie? Dutter, da-da-da-da-da-da. And finally, he started talking and he basically didn't stop talking for two hours. Wow. And he told me the whole story of the buck and just, just was like, like unusual vulnerability and transparency in the way that he communicated about that. I think there's very few people that could have done what he communicated the way that he did because I actually thought, and Donnie will probably be listening to this. Donnie knows. Donnie knows I appreciate him.

I thought, and I've said this to him before, I didn't know this guy. I thought maybe when I get there, he's going to try to justify what he did and think, well, he'll have this national platform to kind of clear his name, you know, which you could do in like nuanced ways. You know, like you could tell the story,

but kind of put some qualifiers here and there, or just the tone. Like, you can talk to somebody, and humans are really good at discerning intent, whether they want to or not, but you can tell someone, one's intent just by just the vibe that they put out and I was just really surprised at Donnie's transparency and his just the way he told the story and then the sequence

that he told it because he tells about this deer and then I'm like basically was like well was this a big deal and he was like yeah, it's a big deal, but let me tell you about it was really a big deal. And he starts telling me about his wife. Yep. And I mean, I'm just like, where is this story going? And the story ends with his wife passing away. And I couldn't have weaved that story together.

It just came together just as he told it. And it was just this powerful moment of just seeing the bigger people. picture of someone's life. In a way, kind of like Louis Del and Charlie. Like if you could get away from them and their outlaw and their brash nature at times, you kind of see a little bit bigger picture. And like the people that actually knew them had in the community, they had a lot more empathy for somebody like that.

But like a Donnie Baker killed 209-inch deer on public land, tried to hide it. Oh man, they fried him. I mean, just mercifully. Mercilessly. Mercilessly. You know. And I would feel justified in doing the same thing. I mean, just this week that C.J. Alexander guy, did you see that?

Yeah. Yeah, he was convicted. Yeah. Yeah. This guy in Ohio killed a world-class typical. Have you seen that, Josh? You seen it bear? Mm-mm.

Yeah. This guy, I mean, it's not like I'm revealing something people haven't already known, but this guy, C.J. Alexander, pretty young guy, I don't know, probably 30. He killed this big buck, put it all over the internet, talked about it, went on podcasts, had it scored. Maybe it was going to be a state record. I don't remember. No, but it was huge. It was one of the biggest deer killed in America last year, as I understood.

Ohio, I think. Ohio, yeah. Then what happened? well then we find out that he i mean he's been convicted of like completely killing it illegally on land he didn't have permission on and taking it to land he did and there was this big cover-up and uh i mean i would have no problem talking negatively about that guy um and i don't know his story I don't know. I just,

and I don't think I could do a story on that guy. Yeah. Donnie Baker was just like a really rare case. Yep. That just happened all on its own. You know, I said in that episode that I kind of felt the need like, you know, coming into the fourth year of our podcast.

Yeah. Where people kind of begin to expect certain things from you. And it's like, I guarantee you the stories are just going to keep getting better in 2025. And man, yeah, we've got a lineup and we've got plans and we're going to do this and we're going to do that. And I'm like, no, I can't guarantee anything. Right. And I never had a guarantee on anything.

I mean, these stories and what anything that has been good that has happened through this podcast, has happened on its own. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, I don't know. Just, uh, I mean, I, I, I think, I think God's helping us, no doubt.

Yeah. But it's, uh, so I can't, I can't guarantee anything. So tune in for some real crap in 2025. Yeah. I think it'll be good. We'll get good stories. come along. No, but that's what gives me confidence in the future.

Yeah, absolutely. Is that, man, there are great stories out there. There are some great stories out there. When we first started this podcast, Caleb, I had to make 26, write out 26 mock episodes, which would be a full year of Bear Grie's. Because we do a Bear Grays documentary style podcast every two weeks. and I remember writing all these things out and being like

man that's that's about all I got you know you just couldn't really think of anything and then very quickly we saw that content was not there's no shortage of great stories yeah do you start getting a lot of listener leads of hey you should check this out or is it just all naturally stuff

that I mean a lot of everything you know I mean yeah there's been some good listener leads that we've followed and probably hundreds that we haven't that would be legitly good episodes people almost every day give me and I you know say hey you should do this and I'm like man he's right I bet that would be good but but more so it's just the kind of the natural trajectory of just stuff I'm exposed to you know that I kind of see I mean, I would say most of them. But there's no one place that they come from.

Right. But, no. So. It's a good year. Good way to start with Donnie Baker. Good way to end with Donnie Baker. Yep. Yeah.

Yeah. Hmm. I really like Donnie's just genuineness. Just a genuine guy. He's just a guy. I appreciated how he, you know, when you ask him the question, like, were you, like, hesitant? He's like, like, nope, I decided. to kill it. Like he was honest. Like just I made, like he had that moment and he's like he made that

moment where he made the decision that he was, he never made that decision before. Like it was never even on the table. But when it came, he was like I made that decision. And that's when he recognizes was the downfall from that moment on. You know, if you talk to him today, he'll tell you the same thing. You know? Mm-hmm. Yep. Anyway, it was a great year. Great podcast, man. It's a good. It was a good. year. Caleb, you have a podcast? I have a little hobby cast, yeah. Oh, we call it a hobby cast.

It's just over bow building. And so I told myself, like, and me and my friend decided to start it, he builds bows as well. And we call it the primitive archery podcast. But I figured it was a tool I could use to talk to some of these, you know, kind of closed-shelled bowiers, these old-timers that are phenomenal boers that maybe don't want to give their secrets away. Not that I'm expelling all their secrets for everyone to hear, but. Maybe it's an olive branch that I can start a conversation with some of these guys so they don't that information is not lost.

So still officially like I want to have conversations with these guys and then you know why would I hold that you know to myself? Why not share it if as long as they're okay with it obviously and so you know I haven't touched it during hunting season like that's a priority. But yeah it is fun and it is a it's a great community just like the traditional archery community like I'm sure like the bear grease community. It's a lot of like minded people that just I don't know if you've. spend any like traditional shoots or anything like that but it just seems like there's a lot it just seems like there's always good people at that kind of stuff so yeah yeah yeah man the traditional archery world is a great world well they got one treat again out there um shoot man i was gonna i was gonna i was gonna ask you i mean we're already it's closing time but uh i was

going to ask you your best uh firefighting story do you actually fight do you put out many fires. That's probably 5% of our job. 90% I'd say is medical calls where we respond with an ambulance and help them and then maybe 5% is wrecks. And so like when you say good story, 5% is wrecks. This is guesstimations. I don't know. Like I could get in the computer. Really? You don't do wrecks every day? No. And you know, we've got I-35 cuts through my area and then Highway 9 as well. Highway 9 is one of the most dangerous sections of highway in the country. And we do run a lot of wrecks, a lot of fat. I don't know the real reason, honestly.

You know, like a lot of it, they four-lane a lot of it, but it used to be two-lane undivided. And so you'd have a lot of head-on collisions, and there's some curves, and there's a lake out there. So I don't know if a lot of, you know, partying at the lake and people driving home. I mean, there's speculations, but when you think, I think of good stories that we might tell at the coffee table in the morning,

you know, a lot of them are probably not stuff you want to share. Yeah. Maybe, like, I can. I can think of one, I was a brand new rookie, and a lot of times the rickies, they're messing with you all day, and you're just, you're trying to earn your spot at the coffee table and just, you know, earn your spot on the team. And so you're taking out the trash, and they're dumping flour and water on you all the time and stuff.

And so you're always trying to earn your spot and do stuff to earn that spot. And so one day our chief walked in was like, hey, the ER called, and they can't get a ring off a lady's finger. One of y'all needs to take the, the Dremel in my office and go. go down there and help them. And so my captain was like, okay, we'll go. And then he was like, does anyone use the Dremel? And none of those guys had used the Dremel.

Well, I use them on my bow stuff. Like, that's what I carved bear ball with. And so I was like, oh, I've used one, not realizing what we were about to do. And then we get in the ER and there's doctors and nurses all around. And there's just a Dremel with no guard or anything. And this lady's finger is super swollen and starting to separate. Because what happens is your blood gets past that ring, but it can't return. because your arteries are pumping that blood harder than your veins can return it.

And so, like, she could have lost her fingers. So I just have someone pouring water over it. They called the bowyer. Yeah, the bowyer. And I've got my dremel just, like, hoping it doesn't grab and, like, shoot into this lady's finger or something, you know? Right, right. And, like, anyways, we got it off and saved her finger. How did you do it when you got right down to the last little part?

So they took, like, these forceps and stuck them under to give me some space, a little bit of space. Okay. A little bit of space. and they were pouring water out of like a flush that they would use in an IV to keep it cool, to keep it from heating up. But, you know, like, I don't have, I don't, doctors protection and liability and stuff like that. And I'm sure the doctor's got the bill, too. Like, I didn't see my cut.

Yeah. We joke about that. But I just thought it was funny. Like, you would expect a doctor to be able to save your finger. And they're like, we don't know. Call the firemen. Because they have ring cutters that are kind of like can openers, and they weren't working. Whatever her ring was made out of was too tough.

Wow. Wow. Good job, Barry. That is a good story. Good job. That's a PG one. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Oh, gosh. Yeah, I bet so. Well, happy new year to everybody. Happy New Year. Very happy New Year. And it's going to be a good year. Keep the wild places wild because that's where the bearers leave. On blood trails, the stories don't end when the hunt is over.

They just get darker. I've seen something in the road. I instantly thought it was a sleeping mess. and there was a full of blood. Oh my God, he doesn't have a head. Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors, where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce,

and the truth gets buried under brush and silence. Indications were he should be right there, but he wasn't. This season, we're going deeper, from cold case files to whispered suspicions, from remote mountains to frozen backwoods. Each story begins in the wilderness, and ends in darkness.

Because out here, there are no witnesses, no cameras, just fragments, and the people left behind trying to piece them back together. He's not an honest person. He's incapable of being honest. Somebody somewhere knows something. I'm Jordan Sillers. Season 2 of Blood Trails premieres April 16th. Follow now on Apple, IHeart, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. guaranteed human.