Bear Grease - Ep. 29: Bear Grease [Render] - Early Christmas Lights, Guarding the Gate, and Why We Love George

Episode Date: November 24, 2021

Clay Newcomb and the Bear Grease crew begin their discussion with how early Christmas decorations impact communities, and how Halloween decor doesn't make sense -- at all. Later, they have some more meaningful dialogue about how our hunting rights are being chipped away at by anti-hunting sentiment. Clay describes the idea of "guarding the gate" and how predator hunting is usually the door for anti-hunting legislation to enter into the hunting space. The crew spends the last half of the podcast discussing George McJunkin's life and impact. Happy Thanksgiving! Connect with Clay and MeatEaterClay on InstagramMeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YoutubeShop Bear Grease Merch Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. First Lights fieldware collection is made for the work that happens long before opening day and continues when the season ends. Products built for early mornings, full days and real use. Hard wearing where they need to be versatile where it matters. No shortcuts. Just gear designed for the work that earns the season.

Built to perform, built to last. Check out. First Light's new field. Worldware Gear at firstlight.com. My name is Clay Newcomb, and this is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called the Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual Bear Grease podcast. Presented by FHF Gear, American Made, Purpose Built, Hunting and Fishing Gear that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. Man, we are at an absolute skeleton crew on the Bear Greas podcast.

Wow. You say, some say skeleton, some say the dream team. That's what I'm saying. There's five of us. I'm saying dream team. Dream team. It's hard to work with a diva. It really is, yeah.

We just keep churning through people. I don't know. Was it some of those private conversations? Maybe. Coincidence. Maybe. Man, you wouldn't believe who I invited today. they wouldn't come

I mean I could go through names Elvis no just P person after person after person Maybe you should get somebody else to do the inviting Give me the list next time Maybe I think would be in there No we so typically on the barrier We have six people

Today we have five But it really is the dreamt I can stretch my legs out today at least Yeah I feel like it's a little bit sketchy to say this is a skeleton crew. Well, I mean, for typically where we have six people, this is skeletons. Josh and I are not wedged into one headset.

That's kind of nice. That mustache tickles my ears. We've already had an interesting beginning. Dan had to totally fix one of our chairs. He was screwing together a chair. But, hey, welcome to the Bear Gries Render. Good to be here. This is the Thanksgiving edition.

Oh. Of the Bear Grish Render. Oh, happy Thanksgiving. I'm glad you didn't skip over it and go straight to Christmas. That's the way it's going to my house and I'm not happy about it. Really? Hey, man, some of our patrons of our town that we live in, like 10 days before Thanksgiving, they've got Christmas lights up.

Every time a Christmas decoration goes up before Thanksgiving, they throw a pilgrim off the ship. Every time. I hope you're happy, the community we live in. Yes, exactly. Man, every time I drive past it, I lecture my kids on why they need to dial it back a notch. Just a notch. We've got to instill the right values and claim when people are wrong.

That's right. Listen, I think that we do need to have a community conversation about holiday decor in general. There's a big push, and I don't know if this is appropriate to talk about on the Bear Grays podcast, but there's a big push for morbidity when it comes to Halloween decorations. It's like they wake up and they see their neighbors. I won't speak of what they put in their yard. It's so gross and gruesome for Halloween. And then the other neighbors seem to think, oh, we should do that too.

And there's like a domino effect. Yeah, I understand. It's pretty. Well, there is a strong correlation. And it goes back to ancient human, ancient human social, the way that we interact with each other socially. Okay. You go to any little town in the world in the United States, and you drive through. Is it the world or is it the States?

In the United States. And if there's one family that does something really well, you'll usually find a cluster of families. And if you have history in that community, you'll be like, hey, they used to be the only one that did that. What we're talking about is Halloween decor, okay? There are people that are real comfortable with putting like skeletons, burning witches. headless. Headless people in their front yards for Halloween. For a month, I have to drive by that just to go get groceries.

Like, I can't get milk without seeing something that I would not. That is supposed to incite in us like, oh, man, that's where we'll stop when we take our kids to go knock on their door to get candy. No, thank you. No, thank you. Maybe it's like that's what they're trying to do is keep people from coming to their house. Maybe they don't even buy candy. These are respectable people. I think people are so desensitized to.

it that you just see Halloween decor and you're like, oh, oh, these people are festive. No, that's like wildly inappropriate. Yeah, it's something else. So, anyway, our neighbors put up some Christmas lights down here, like way before Thanksgiving. And I appreciate the passion of it. We need a community conversation about what is appropriate. Is there a group of people that you guys are okay with? That's what I want to know.

Just, I feel like the open-mindedness of the Newcomb household is off the charts. I don't think it's very open right now We need to have some more community conversations Which I feel like would be rather one way From Clay and Misty To all the conversation is Do what I say Exactly

You got to have some standards Got to have some standards I'm with you Clay Let me let me introduce my Our guest today Dr. Daniel Rup to my left Good to see you Dr. Dan The revered Dr. Dan did what all good

Bear Grease render Podcast participants are supposed to do bring the deer that they killed the racks in. So I'm talking about. Nice rack in here. That skull is clean. Nice. How did you do that?

Rather petite. Hey, my wife, I got to give her most of the credit. Is it a tremble? Are you serious? Busted out the tremble tool. She's pretty impressive.

She got all the sinus cavity out. Yeah, you'll never see a cleaner sinus cavity unless Kayla gets a hold of it. Oh, she even drummed on the top of it. Great. So we got a nice eight point bucks in here. Josh Spelmaker. Yes. The land bridge.

Didn't kill a deer. caught a decent trout. Didn't kill a deer. Yep. You're sporting a nice, I like that Arkansas flag have with a trout on it. You like that? Yeah, I do like that. So Josh, Brent, Josh went with me to Folsom, New Mexico.

Oh, nice. When we recorded this George McJunton podcast. I'm basically a subject matter expert now. Yeah. And still didn't, wasn't qualified enough to make it to the actual podcast. Yeah. Why couldn't you ask me a question? You could have, I mean, he was right there with you.

I could, and I was there. Okay. Okay. I wasn't even good. I guess there were more parts. Back pedal. I wasn't even going to bring this up, but now I've been put in the corner. Oh, okay.

Did I? No, during, during the middle of the interview with Kyle Bell and Matt Dowdery and the Folsom. Can you say his name? His name is not how you said. Doherty. Doherty. Doherty. Yeah.

Thank you, Josh. I was about to. There's another word. There is another way of spelling it. There's lots of words I just can't say. Okay. Do you guys know what the other word was from the podcast? Pronunciation.

Nope. Because he definitely can't. It's just going to be hard. It says posthumous. I will say it's going to be hard to have community conversations if there are a lot of words that you can't say. Okay. Okay. Sorry.

To me being backed in a corner. Yes. About Josh not being on the podcast. His voice actually was on the podcast and I had to yell at him across the museum. Hey, Josh, Shut it. You need to be quiet back there. Shut it.

He was back there talking to this other guy. So anyway, so you kind of were on the podcast. No, Josh strode with me out there. It was great having a travel park. It was fun. We had a great time. Yeah, it was like whirlwind. We were out there for a very short amount of time.

Drove there, got there late at night, like after 11, or maybe even midnight. I can't remember. And then we were gone the next day by like 2 o'clock. Yeah. And got all that stuff for the podcast. So it was great. So Josh Billmaker, nice hat. Thank you.

Nice mustache as always. Thank you very much. It just kind of grows there. Speaking of people that I tried to get on this podcast, I invited Josh's wife, who is a dear friend of ours as well. Unfortunately, she's way more important than me and couldn't make it. She is pretty important. Yeah. She has a job.

To Josh's left, Brent Reeves. Brent, great to see you. Greetings. Hey, I'd like to call out, Brent, for. Brent drives three hours one way to come to this podcast. He's basically the hero. I drew three hours the other way going back. No, just Brent, Brent, Brent.

Thank you, Brent. Brits are good for it. Yep, yeah. That's a nice pair of overalls you got on there. They're all nice. To Brent's left. How many pairs of overalls do you on? Yeah, I think it's a good question.

One. Let's see. Probably six, one for every, almost every day of the week. Mm-hmm. On the Sabbath, he's naked. Aren't we all? Edit that out. Kids, close your ears.

Neighbors close your eyes. I just went to PG-12. That's a fray-yard Halloween decoration. You do not want. Who? Brent on the Sabbath. Happy Halloween, y'all! Sabbath, Brin.

No, thank you. I wish she was wrapped in Christmas lights. I wear that bear-skinned rug. To Brent's left. My lovely wife, Misty Newcomb. So great to be a part of all these conversations. For being here. Thanks.

Thanks for the invite. So my dad would have been here, but he couldn't be here. That's all I'm going to say. Probation. No, so there's a couple of housekeeping items I have to go through. Number one is meat eater. Themeadeter.com right now has a massive Black Friday sale. Yep.

If you ever wanted anything from Meat Eater, now's the time. to do it. They've got, so all their, all their t-shirts and stuff are like a big percentage off. Let's see. Let's just go right through this. 50% off logo wear. That's significant. $100 off vortex diamond back, three by five, $10 by 50 rifle scope. $100 off vortex. A lot of numbers. Yeah. And then this is what I would be most interested in if you were buying me a gift. Wink, wink. The source. Book and knife bundles.

If you were buying him a Halloween gift, a Thanksgiving gift. Dan lost his bench made. So you get the survival guide and a bugout knife for $165. Butchering big game bundle is the meat crafter knife, which Josh has his hand. This knife is really, feels super nice in the hand. I wish you'd put it up. He looks dangerous. Everybody's out of my blood zone right now.

Look at it. So they have a lot of bundles. So you can check out the meat eater Black Friday sale. I will also say that soon and very soon, there's going to be a whole suite of bear grease merchandise. Oh. Like t-shirts, hats, a bunch of stuff. So it's not available just yet, but it will be available soon.

I'd like to see a t-shirt with a mash-up of me and Brent's face. Yes. That'd be good. Huh. Yeah. That'd be great. Or just a picture of me mashing his face. I'll buy that one

Yeah That's the one Daniel Okay I got a I had a little bit of We haven't gone through much feedback From you know

Like iTunes reviews Oh yeah Recently And I've kind of made a habit Not to do that But I did have one guy That gave us a five star review But said

He said clay foreshadows way too much And he said It's a great podcast I love it. Clay foreshadows way too much. And when he said it, I knew exactly what he meant.

And I thought, man, this guy must just really love surprises. Yeah. He must, like, he doesn't want me to tell

what I'm about to tell in a cryptic statement. He just wants a surprise. So, like, he wouldn't want his wife to be like, honey, you're not going to believe

what we're going to have for dinner. He would rather her just go, we're having lasagna for dinner it's your favorite and he's like bam thank you he's talking about the fulsome deal right oh this was this was this was this was this was a while back oh okay because it was definitely 10 minutes 10 minutes of foreshadowing is this part two when we find out what we're talking about misty it's kind of funny it is kind of because I said the same thing to clay that I felt so this was a while back not not since the

four yeah okay well no offense but he might even right. It took a little bit of time. No offense. I'm not just talking about the full sum. I'm just talking about like life with Clay.

There might be. Clay loves, he loves suspense. He loves build up. He loves drama. And when you say, you'll never guess what happened today, I don't know,

my mind always goes to worst case scenario. Like, do our kids all have their arms? Do we all? Are we all still intact? Anyway. Well, I thought it would be funny if I just started,

if every single sentence in the rest of my life, like anytime I just dealt with people in like normal life. Leave the Kevin. I foreshadowed. No, no, like, we're about to have dinner, and it's going to blow your mind what we're going to have.

You're not going to want to miss it. Like walking clickbait. You're not going to want to miss it. That was the best spaghetti of all time. But the dessert is going to take you to places you've never been. If I said that to like a dinner guess. If you could weave this dynamic into your community conversations. That's true.

You're never going to guess the standards that we have for y'all. The community actually. You think the Halloween skeletons were great. Wait until the Christmas lights. Positively spin. You'll never guess the type of community we want to build here. The time where you could go to the grocery store without having to see. Without nightmares.

You're welcome. No, I just thought it was funny. It was a good statement. You know what? It's really difficult to build a documentary style podcast, especially with somebody like George McJunkin, because there's so many different facets of it. The whole premise of the. series is not about George McJunkin.

It's about the Folsom site. Right. And I didn't want to spill all the beans about Georgia at the beginning. So anyway, I agree with it. Way too much foreshadowed. Well, people today, they're instant information. That's a joke. I'm going to foreshadow until the day I die.

We all know you are. We all know you are. But people today, like, you wonder something, you pick up the phone and you Google it. I need to answer to this right now. It's not. Let me think about this. It's like, nope, let me type it out real quick and get you an answer. So you want the information instantly.

You don't want to wait around. Yeah. And I get it because I was about to chew my arms off trying to think out what is this podcast about. And finally, good old George. I still don't know what it was about. You've got to start listening to these things, Dan. Hey, okay, so moving on, I've just got a few little topics here of things I want to discuss. Did you guys hear that they have postponed, quote unquote, the bear season in Washington State?

No. No. Sure about that? No. Yeah, this is a serious, this is a serious issue. No foreshadowing here. TC 7403 on iTunes. Called him out.

All his friends are going to know. He's triggered. That's what we call them in high school. Washington State, they have a commission. And right now the commission, I believe, has four seats in it. And it's supposed to have five. There's an unfilled seat. So there can be issues that come up where there's a split decision

where they just have to basically be at a standstill. Can I ask the question? Who chooses the people who occupy these seats? Well, that would be different for every state. I'm not sure exactly how Washington, how that works. I know it's many of them, like here in Arkansas, it's appointees. This is like the Supreme Court of Hunting. Yeah, and the state, exactly what it is.

And so what you have happening, just on a, if you were just looking at the national scale in some of these different states, especially states that have big urban centers like Washington state, would have Seattle. But what's happening is that where there are large urban centers like Seattle, Washington, Dan, that's where most of the state lives, like in terms of population. So there's big, massive numbers of people that typically outnumber the people in the rural areas of the state, or at least equivalent. Another example would be in Michigan, where my friends are the Michigan bear hunters. They're constantly talking about, you know, the big cities in Michigan, Detroit, and where there's these massive urban centers. And these people simply don't have an understanding of rural culture. It's true. and the way things work in terms of wildlife management.

Those urban centers are often easily preyed upon by those who have an agenda that is not favorable to hunting in a significant way. There are animal rights groups like the Humane Society of the United States that have massive, massive budgets. I mean like just an unbelievable amount of money. And where do you think they're going to spend their money in trying to build their campaigns? in the cities. They're going to spend their money where they're going to get banged for their buck. Right.

And so they spend money in a lot of these urban centers and pick specific things. And it's not always against hunting. Sometimes it's with confinement agriculture or whatever. You know, they're involved in a whole lot of different stuff. But hunting is definitely something they're involved in. And there's many, many other even statewide groups

that are affiliated with some of these bigger national groups. And basically, you have this thing where these urban centers end up controlling wildlife management. In Michigan, Michigan is a referendum state, which means if you can get enough signatures on a sheet of paper, you can get anything on the ballot. That's a very simplified version. If they can get 100,000 signatures,

they can basically vote on just about anything. In some states, like in Arkansas, all of our wildlife management is run by a commission. a seven-seeded commission as I understand it. So all the decisions of wildlife are made by them, not by just the average voter in the state. And so that's a good thing, as long as your commissioners understand hunting,

understand wildlife management, are pro-hunting, and, you know, have some sense. I'm not sure what's going on in Washington because there's a four-seat commission and two of them voted to against having a spring bear season, and two of them voted for it. And the way that it came up was the anti-group started

a lot of propaganda about spring bear seasons. Just saying all this negative stuff. They put it up and it's now been postponed. And that's a tragedy because it may not seem like that big a deal, but it is no secret that the anti-hunting agenda in this country is designed to break down our system incrementally, incrementalization. They're not trying to, they can't.

They're not just going to shut down hunting. Was there any of it based off of scientific research from the Department of Natural Resources or gaming fish? No, gaming fish is for it. And it's a very, very regulated season. It's a draw season. I went through and looked at the results of the hunt from the last several seasons. And basically, it's not over-the-counter thing. You can't just go to Washington by spring bear tag and go hunting.

they have, it looks like about 15 different zones, and each zone is allotted a certain number of permits, and it's very regulated. And one of the things that they sometimes have used against spring bear hunting is that you could shoot a sow with a cub, which just doesn't happen very, very often. When you look at the male-to-female kills in these different zones, there's a very high skew towards males being killed in that spring season.

And they put spring seasons at such a time when it's going to be much more likely that you're going to kill a male. Earlier in the spring, the males are out roaming around a bunch more than the sows with cubs. So it's just there's a bunch of science behind it. And so I say all that to say, you know, we live in like this heyday seemingly of North American hunting. and we live in this also this little time block of being humans where it's hard to see beyond that time block. We may be like, ah, hunting's not that threatened.

But it absolutely is. And these guys in Washington are seeing that. But there's a chance that the spring bear hunt will come back. But yeah, we're going to work on some action steps for stuff that people can do. And, you know, this is a phrase that we say all the time, guard the gate. And maybe if you're new to the Bear Geregris podcast,

You've never heard to say that. But garden the gate. Predature hunting is the gate for the anti-hunting sentiment, wherever that comes from, to enter into our space as North American hunters. So if you looked at all North American hunting, you looked at elk hunters, white-to hunting, duck hunting, pheasant hunting, squirrel hunting,

the entry point for people to crack into our little system that works so well and has been the absolute pinnacle of human animal husbandry. on planet earth since humans have been here. The way they crack in is typically through predator hunting, bear hunting, specifically. And so that's why we say bear hunting is the gate. And so if we guard the gate by becoming informed and knowledgeable about why bear hunting makes sense, why it's sustainable, why it's scientifically backed,

why it is just such a positive thing. You know, and I could go on all the talking about us. And communicate with our legislators and AGFC commissioners and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. And yeah, so we say guard the game. And so in Washington, they're having a tough time. And there's going to be some places where we can, when it comes back around and they have a full commission that can vote on it and actually make a decision, we could flog these guys' emails and different ways we can communicate with legislators and say, hey, this is a good thing.

It doesn't make any sense for. us not to have this spring bear hunt there. Guard the gate. Guard the gate. Yeah, man. It's a heavy, heavy topic right here before Thanksgiving. Speaking of a heavy topic, if that chair that Dan's sitting in last to the end of this podcast, I'll be surprised.

If you hear it, it is Daniel falling to the ground. He's got a dull handful of screws. I'm always given this chair. I don't know what's going on. Yeah, for sure. Well, I just got back from Nebraska. I had a good white-tail hunt in Nebraska. It's pretty.

I don't have that. I don't have the whole chair. an amazing white tail hunt in Nebraska. Yeah. That buck is the size of a truck. The pictures did it. Camera adds to 10 pounds. What about the body of the animal was big, though, right?

It was, they're not as big as you would think. That deer was probably 160 pounds, 160 pound buck probably. Maybe a little bigger than that. Wow, it looked big. Yeah. It was a good buck, had a good hunt with the meteor crew. You'd be able to see that hunt. on season 11 of meat eater at some point.

So that'll be good. So as you know, on the Bear Grease render, what we're doing is we're going to talk about the last Bear Grease podcast, which was part one. This is an interesting series because the series... How many parts are there going to be? Probably three.

Don't foreshadow too much. You won't believe how many parts. You won't believe how many podcasts there will be. Just when you thought it was safe. The series is about the Folsom Archaeological Site. But the whole first podcast wasn't about the Folsom site really much at all. It was about the man that found the Folsom site. That makes it fun, though, because it's going to be really interesting.

I have a question for you, Dan. Define for me, archaeology. I actually had this thought on the way here. What is... Speaking for... The day and today will be. Oh, thank you, Josh. So I'm curious to see Dr. Dan.

It's the study of material culture. So it's not just stuff that's dug up. But archaeology, even present day, you can look at material culture would look like our, look at our phones, our clothes, anything like that. Material culture. Material human culture. Exactly. Yeah.

You're going to look at material human culture. You nailed on the distinction there because a paleontologist or paleontology would be what? Study of bones. Yep. Oh, okay. So when we say- That's what I thought. Because I was trying to decipher the difference between paleontology and archaeology.

Because was George McJunkin a paleontologist, an amateur paleontologist, or archaeologist? Right. Well, okay. And that's what queued me in. And I think in context, like if this had been on the ACT test, you know, like we used to take back in the day. Are you trying to bring up my ACT score? Yeah. Because it was subpar.

I'd rather not talk about that. Okay, if that question had been on a test, I would have got it right. Like, what is archaeology? A, this, B, this, C, this. Because I'm really good at understanding context clues, but if you would have just said write an essay on what archaeology is with no context clues, I might not or know. Because Dr. Meltzer said the, and we're going to get to know Dr. Meltzer really good on part two. Dr. Meltzer said that the site went from a page. alienological site. Oh, no.

That wasn't that right. He got into an archaeological site. So it transitioned when they found the human, the human evidence, so material culture. So very good. Thank you, Dan. Thanks. Yeah.

What did, so Josh, you went with me to Folsom, New Mexico. I did. Would you have known anything about the Folsom site before that? No, I never even heard about it. Never heard of George McJunkin? Never heard of the Folsom site? It was fascinating, though. Dan, would you have heard of the Folsom site?

You know, don't try to make a little. us feel like you're smart because you're doctor. Just tell us the truth. I wondered if it was connected all with the Folsom Prison Blues. Anybody else think that was just me? A lot of people that I said we went to Folsom, they were like, yeah, Johnny Cash. Yeah. I was like, nope.

Just no. That was Folsom, California. Different, different Folsom altogether, guys. Yeah, totally different. If you went to Folsom, there's nothing there. I mean, it is in the middle of nowhere. Which made me think good spot for a prison. Yeah, I can see that.

No, no. Okay, never mind. I didn't know a thing about it. Okay, good. That's good to know. See, that's a good touch point. Two of the smartest people I know didn't know a thing about Folsom, New Mexico and the Folsom site. Dan was one.

Who did you? Brent Reed. Now, Brent, oh, lie and say that he knew who he knew about it. Watch this. Hey, Brent, did you know anything about Folsom? Yes. Absolutely. Have you been to Folsom?

I would say in this room if anybody had been to Folsom before. And I have to say that the Spielmakers and the Newcoms have traveled a lot out west. True story. Still, of anybody in this room that I would expect could have been at Folsom, I would say, Brent Rees. We went by it. We went where the sign when we were out hunting was straight. Oh, really? Yeah.

I saw the place to go out there. Now, my familiarization with it. I don't think that counts as knowing a lot about. I didn't say. You asked me, did I know about it? I said, yes. I did know about it.

My familiarization with it would be from the projective points. Okay. Aeroheads and artifacts, Native American stuff. We picked those up on our farm when I was picking up to pick up up rocks and tell the difference between one I should keep and one I should throw at my brother. And my brother is, he's real, he's self-taught about a lot of the different types of points, Clovis points, and all the different. different types.

Oh, so you, you would have known that terminology like a fulsome point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And just from being interested in it and not from knowing everything. Not like academically none of that. But yeah, exactly. Just from a vein of interest that I have.

Yeah. Yeah. I would have only probably known about it from the Meteor podcast a couple years ago. Because Steve Ronella had David Meltzer, Dr. David Meltzer, who we'll get to know a ton on about later. He had him on there. Was that a foreshadow? I'm keeping up with them.

That's number 12. It's kind of like when a friend of yours has a tick or like a little thing they do all the time. Or a flea. Or flea. And then somebody points it out and then all you can do is hear that. Thanks. Commenter. Yep.

We're all stuck with this. TCO-734. Last spring, Clay Newcomb and I collaborated. with Jason Phelps at Phelps game calls and building each of our own favorite turkey diaphragms called prime cuts. Now I'm going to tell you, I love mine because it's easy to use. I'm not going to go, I'm not going to win a turkey calling contest. It's just not going to happen. But

when I run this call, I get the sounds that gobblers are looking for. I have a great turkey hunting track record. If you go listen to real turkeys out in the woods, they're not going to win calling contests, right? That's who I listen to you, I can make those sounds on my cut. I also hunt with Phelps's cut and I hunt with Clay's cut because they're all three great cuts. Check out Prime Cuts at Phelps game calls.com. I think you'll be glad you did and you'll find out that the Steve Rinella cut is an easy to use cut for beginning callers who just want to start making good turkey noises and getting

action. Misty, would you have known about the Folsom's side? Because I I'm married to you. I wouldn't know, I wouldn't say, oh, I know a whole lot about that. But I would have definitely have heard about it. This is a lot of Clay's pillow talk is archaeological sites. For sure. Talking about the old fulsome points. So talking about finding stone points, what's interesting is that the fulsome point,

you could find a fulsome point in my front yard. Did you know that? No, you could not. Yes, you could. Yeah, because the Folsom Point, we'll be talking about this on a later podcast. 14. They found this style of point in Folsom, New Mexico. This style of point predated anything they'd ever found in North America in terms of technology of stone points.

So they pull this stone point out, and they're like, holy cow. We've never seen one like this before. I have to say, after seeing them handling them, they are beautiful stone points. Yeah. They're really something to see the way that they're shaped. Like, I've seen a lot of stone points, I mean, stone points you've found here. Comparatively, they're so delicate and sharp and just uniform. Like, it took a lot of skill to really make those.

Well, Josh, that was a great description. That was super. I feel like I have one in my heart right now. Yeah. That was really, that was great. But the reason you could find one here is that they then use the term fulsome to describe a time period. It doesn't describe a region. It describes a time period of people that were here. But typically they find fulsome points in the Midwestern United States from, well, from like New Mexico to, you can find fulsome points here in Arkansas.

Really? Mm-hmm. And it was a technology that a people of a certain. time period used. So it just happened. They found the first one there, so they named it Folsom. That's the way that's the way archaeologists think. So that's where the first ones were found.

That's right. Okay. But since then, they found them other places. All over the place. Interesting. Yeah, yeah, all over the place. But I don't want to dive in too deep on Folsom because we'll be talking about it later. But George McJunkin, though.

George McJunkin is, was a cool dude. No doubt. I'm surprised I'd never heard of him before. And I'm still surprised at how little there is known about the guy. But what a guy of character. I think that there's a lot of people that are idolized in the world these days. Some that are good, some that are not so great. But this is a guy that you can look at his life and say,

there's a guy of integrity. There's a guy who stuck with things. I really appreciate the fact that he really went against the grain, you know. And I appreciate that about guys in that part of the world, that life revolves around providing for your families and working hard and caring about others. Those are the things that are meaningful to me and to see a guy like that who really went against the trends of the age and stood up for what was right. super super cool guy I mean I appreciate the fact

that I got to go with you just to learn about him these guys revere this guy I mean these old men just talk about him with such reverence and honor

make themselves great I picked up when I talked to Matt Doherd he wasn't super convincing on the phone that he was the George McJunkin

expert of the world he just kind of I don't know he just He wasn't just like putting all his cred out there. And finally, I just asked him. I said, hey, are you the guy I need to be talking to? Just tell me, you know, I mean, because I want, I need to find an expert.

I need to talk to that guy. And he was like, yeah, pretty much. And I was like, okay, that's good enough for me. If you pretty much think you're the expert and that's good. We go there. He lives in the building that George McJunkin died in. Turns out he's pretty much that guy. Yeah.

His grandfather, so there's a picture of George, and you can find it online. It's in the book, The Black Cowboy. There's a picture of George McJunkin in the early 1900s standing on a porch, just a vertical picture. And there's a little, you know, in Georgia's Black, there's a little white baby at his feet, which. Toddler. That's a story right there. Is it not? Yeah.

And that little baby is Matt's grandfather. Grandfather, yeah. They just revered George. And Matt's grandmother is the one who basically collected intel on George's life. I mean, think about if a guy died, like just a guy down the street that you knew and he died. And then all of a sudden, five years after his death, you realized that he had done something that changed our understanding of human history and was going to be in textbooks. You'd kind of be like, holy cow, we should have probably took a. a few more pictures, wrote down a few more dates, saved a few more letters.

I made fun of his Halloween decorations. You know, and that's what's so interesting about George's is like his life just kind of passed by, and they recognized that he was unique as a cowboy and all this. But any, Matt's grandmother was the main source of info because she had saved correspondence and that's just kind of neat. Yeah. So I said all that to say, these guys, I really think of you to talk to. bad about George McJunkin, they would have fought you.

Yes. It would have punched you in the face. Kyle Bell would have shot you with his H&R 32 pistol. Okay, let me ask you this. Because when I was listening to the podcast, this was a question that I had. It's clear that they revere him, like you say, and it's clear that that was earned. And I know why I would think highly of him. Why do you think, I feel like the intensity with which they respect George McJunkin and

devote a lot of attention to him is pretty high? and way above average for just someone that you respect. Why do you think that is? Two things. Okay. Do you have an answer? I want to hear what you have to say first. Two things.

They live in a tiny little bitty town. Folsom, New Mexico has like 50 people in it. And apparently there's some kind of political election going on there and it's pretty heated. You saw lots of signs. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's like a town of 50 and I think they're having a city council election.

And there's a little mud slinging going on. 25 to 25. You once again polarized. I was looking for it, Dan. I was waiting for it. You stepped into that town and they just parted like the red scene. One side to the other. So it's a small town and he is a hero of that town.

Okay. It's like the quarterback from, you know, like 1968. Uncle Rico. championship. And so they're like, man. The name of your quarterback was Uncle Rico? No, I've never seen Napoleon. Okay.

These people hate Halloween. They didn't see him. They don't watch movies. So it's a small town and he was a hero, number one. Now, Matt, it's a small town and he's the hero, but this was a family friend that they were endeared to. Actually, they, they, you, you mentioned in there the flood that revealed the bones. There was a another, there's a, there's a plaque right near the museum, but she was the

switchboard operator and she stood, she stayed at the operator thing so she could call people and let them know that the flood was coming until she died in the flood. Yeah, a pretty amazing story. Holy cow. So the flood that uncovered the Folsom site was really a unique flood. And we wouldn't have this kind of stuff here, but it wasn't even raining in Folsom, New Mexico. but it had rained on Johnson Mesa, which is 20 miles away, 14 inches of rain fell, just like that. Flash flood. This water just comes rushing, and it's not even raining. Here it is.

Why would people even be that worried about it? Here it is. Sarah Sally J. Rourke, heroin of the dry Cimarron flood on the night of August 27, 1908, while working as a telephone operator, Sally received a call that a wall of water was rushing down the dry Cimarron River toward Folsom. She perished that storm. It's like blurry. She perished that stormy night at her switchboard.

Warning of the danger, saving countless lives. Telephone operators across the country contributed 4,334 dimes to honor their colleague with a memorial. Did you know? They found her body a year later. No. Like miles downstream with feet sticking out of the ground. No way. True story.

I don't think you should do your fingers like that. You wouldn't tell them the story. also Andy Griffith the telephone operator the operator on there Sarah was named after their lady No really No I'm lying

You're lying As the words were coming up and out of really I was like you're really like Hypnotizing voice Even though you know he's lying You want it to be true You just It would have been cool though

It would have been really cool That would have been a great story Dan what did you think about the podcast I was with Misty a little bit. It took me. I first of all, I always prefer the podcasts that are about people. So the, the, the Panther one previously, I think that was great. And it, and it was finishing up on Warren. But, you know, I thought, oh, okay, we get a person, you know, I like that, like a story, like a person. But I was trying to kind of get my mind around what we were talking about.

What we're talking about. You know, I get it, there's, there's some bones and there's points in there. but one of the things that kind of struck out to me stuck out to me was you're living in a day and age where everything is I guess of course now like the worst thing you could ever say here I am a white man the worst thing I could ever say is oh don't see color you know I'm colorblind or whatever that's like the last that we should like not we need to be able to be aware of that and see it and interact with it and but I think hearing them so when they were first saying that I was like wait a minute what's going on We're not supposed to say that anymore. Yeah, yeah. But then the more they talked about it, back, you know, three, four generations ago,

when everything you're doing is practical skills, it really would have been a realm for a man of color to kind of move up the ranks. And then hearing how it was actually the Mexican cowboys that really welcomed him in and taught him. And I don't know. I just thought it what a, it's kind of interesting to hear this story at a time when race is such a big deal in our country. And so part of me was like, man, that's so great because here's this man who on the basis of merit was able to display his character and was welcomed in. But then at the end of his life, you know, it was kind of sad to hear that he never married because even though we don't see color, there's not a white woman around that's going to marry this guy. You know, it's just complex and it's just entering into history and a guy's story.

I think it's really, when you hear stories like that, when you got to the end and they started talking about it. about him not being able to find a wife. You know, you watch the Disney or the Hollywood versions of these heroes and people who went through civil rights movements or things like that. And sometimes they attempt to show the difficulty of it. That would be a tough thing to show the difficulty of in a movie like that. You know, there's a lot of stuff that we really don't appreciate and couldn't appreciate that they had to sacrifice to

pursue the lifestyle that they pursued. And I don't even know if they would have had an opportunity to count those costs. I don't know that that would have been a logical thing that you would think through. I see what you're saying. So you're saying like in a Hollywood version of racism like... Triumphant. Like someone like chanting racial slurs in the street would be something that would be very evident. You could look at that. Yeah, you could... But the other side of it that is a harder story to tell is a man that never

marries because of racial lives. And I think it causes people to not appreciate the difficulties, the interpersonal difficulties that people go through to rise above the, you know, to the ceilings that are put there for them at whatever time that they find themselves in. The reason we like George McChunkin is because he exceeded expectations and he exceeded the boundaries that were placed on him. And he did it like Dan said on merit. And he was, he was able to, like you said in the podcast. He clearly had social tax. He had a whole skill set of things that allowed him to reach what he reached and achieve what he achieved. That same skill set would be a skill set that would really want to be married. I mean, that that social ability and all that that tells you this guy

wants to have a family. He wants to be married. And he did. In the book, it says that like his whole life he wanted to have a family. Yeah. And that's a cost that he, it's hard to capture. It's just hard to take into account the loss. To me, it's hard to really feel that. And when you went to that part of the podcast, it was just really sad to me. That part of it, it made me sad for him.

You know, here's another interesting aspect of George McJunkin, is we would have never known who he was, had he not found a once in a how many gazillion lifetime archaeological site. Right. The only reason that he's in the Cowboy Hall of Fame, honestly, is because we know it, knew his name. Yeah. Because, and I'm not saying he didn't deserve to be in, he's not in the Cowboy Hall of Fame because of that. Right.

He's in the Cowboy Hall of Fame because of the way he rode Bronx, his life, his ability to be a cowboy. But I think if you're really looking at it, the only reason we knew him and people told the story a hundred years later is because he found something that how many humans have been in America for the last 10,000? years and one of them found an archaeological site that rewrote human well a couple now there's been a couple of others but like point being how many george mjunkins are out there that just weren't the one that found something that made them super famous yeah you know and it's it's interesting that uh that george mjunkin for until 19702 wasn't even credited with that find right it was the archaeologist that came from denver that that yeah went and went and went and viewed the site shortly, shortly after, within a couple years after George McJunkin's death.

And then he and a colleague were credited with that find. And it was until 1972 that George McJunkin was actually credited with it. I'll tell you what impressed me most about it. I think somebody would eventually found that site. It didn't have to be George McJunkin. I was most impressed with the story of him deciding to do something. in a time that was hard. He decided he wanted to read and write.

So he put himself in a position to learn that. He set a goal, and he was goal-oriented and solely focused on making himself a better human being. And he did that. And he did that in a time when it was hard. And today, you know, it's so different where people gripe about the spoon that they're being fed with, about the size of the spoon, back when the cat didn't have a spoon.

and people, regardless of their situation, they can, if you work hard enough, things shouldn't be easy. Things should be hard, and you should have to work for it. You probably shouldn't have to work for it as hard as George did, but he did it.

And he didn't, nowhere in that podcast that I hear one person say anything or tell a story that George sat around and said, man, I had it tough coming up. It was always what was going to be happening down the road. He said, and once he reached that,

just from my summation of it, once he reached that goal of educating himself, it didn't stop. He wanted to do more and he wanted to do more. He thought he, but he did find those bones,

that site, and he thought, he didn't think it was just bones. He knew. He knew enough to say, hey, somebody ought to check this out. They never did in his lifetime.

But it was just, I think he is a great inspiration for what a thirst of knowledge can do for somebody regardless of the situation they're in. Mm-hmm. That impressed me the most. Yeah, I thought David Meltzer did a good, he had a good angle. It's interesting talking to so many people about one person and you get just kind of little snippets.

But David Meltzer said that George McJunkin was one and a hundred of the cowboys that would have even got off their horse to look at a bone. Yeah. And again, George didn't see. 32 bison and tickless bones. He saw just a handful of bones sticking out of the dirt down in this arroyo. And just, you know, the curiosity to get off of it, get off his horse and go down there and look was. But curiosity is a thirst for knowing, for knowing, finding out what something is, you know, and that never, that fire never went out.

Because here he was, he had probably surpassed anything that he could have possibly dreamed of doing. growing up as a slave. Here I am the boss. I am the boss of this ranch. Why do I need to do more? But yet his curiosity never stopped. It was really cool. I can't wait.

I'm very interested in the Native American part in the Folsom stuff. But I kind of hate to see this chapter close on him. Yeah. You know, that's the thing about George. There's not a lot of intel on him. You know, there's one book, The Black Cowboy, is as far as I know,

the only book that's written about him. And there's some other snippets of intel in a few different places, but most of it is, is, most of it's in that book. I assume he's buried, did you all see a cemetery?

Yeah, he's buried, he's buried in Folsom. And I wish we could have gone to his grave. Yeah. We didn't. And his house. Yeah, or where his house was.

Where his house was, yeah. Yeah, that was also so, I know. You got a man, just got a handful of possessions. Yeah. Yeah. It's because he took that skull. Oh, you think that's what it was?

Did anybody catch my joke when I said, I don't want to be a Debbie Downer, but I want to talk about this part of George's life. And then when I ended, thanks, Debbie. I said, thanks, Deb. Yeah, we caught it. I think it's fun that. I just wasn't that funny. Were you hoping that we would bring that up on the, on the bakery as our favorite part?

No, no, no, no. Hang on, edit all this out. Now, that one part where you referred back to the joke that you made, just seamlessly, that one really got me. No, one of the funniest things I've ever been a part of my entire life. I was a part of a business networking organization back when I had a landscape company. And one day, so it's this super awkward deal where we had breakfast every once a week with all these business owners in the community. And I was a young guy trying to start this business.

So I was going, there's like 20 people in the room. And somebody gives some, like, terrible news about something. Like, every week you had to stand up and talk about your business. And I really don't remember what was said. But a guy stood up and said, I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but, you know, I'm going bankrupt and we've got to sell our house. My wife, love me. My mother-law's house burned down. Give somebody by my breakfast.

And the place just goes silent. Like 20 people that don't know each other just goes silent. And my CPA who was there, who had invited me, to break the silence after like 20 seconds of just awkward silence. He goes, thanks a lot, Deb. I've never forgot that. So anytime someone says, I don't want to be a Debbie down there, I go, thanks, Deb. So I watched people's faces a couple of people. people that I was with when I listened to the podcast and they never even got it.

They never even registered in our mind. So there's a lot of hidden clues inside the Bear Grays podcast. That's subliminal. Forshadowing. There's a lot of, I'll just say as possibly one of the people he was watching, there's a lot of pressure to listen to the Bear Grace in front of clay. Does he sit there and like, just watch every reaction. That's my joke.

That's my joke. Did she get it? Did she get it? I absolutely do. I'm sorry to know why you guys don't see many movies. There's a whole lot of Misty, listen to this. One more time. It's more like Misty, you'll never guess what he's about to say.

You'll never guess. Well, the podcast was adequate, I think. That's what it sounds like. It sounds like it's pretty adequate. Thank you, Gary. Yeah, too bad dad's not here. He could really put me into place. I'm sure he caught it.

He caught it. He was not amused. It was an okay podcast. That's what it's it. It's just okay. I thought it was a good podcast, and I'm glad you did it. And I'm glad. I think that you understand foreshadowing here, that once you hear the second one, you kind of

understand the significance of this contribution he made in a way that you don't understand after the first one, which is the great part about a two-parter. And so you'll all come to appreciate him. I think that we all appreciate him as it stands just for being a cowboy. I mean, like, just for what he, just for his life. And I think that that's also super valuable for someone to live their life in such a way that gracious, there's people devoted to it into preserving the honor of what he did. And so that speaks volumes in particularly of a man who was born into the world at a time

that he was born into it where it was harder for him to reach that level of respect than it would have been other people. And so I think in and of itself, his life, without the discovery of this other thing, really, without understanding the significance of it, was a life that was worthy to be covered on the Bear Grays podcast. Good people deserve to be remembered regardless of they make an impact. Good people make an impact, period. His would be a global impact for what he found. But he obviously had a impact on that community because all those people loved him so much. So they deserve to be remembered

Yeah, it really is remarkable The loyalty that that whole family feels to him And that the people in that community feel to him And that's that is That is notable That's significant Are we going to get to hear more from the illustrious Kyle Bell Nope, we're done

We're done with Kyle What a character that guy is We're not remembering him That's how you said that Nope, we're done with him Yeah, that guy is a character Yeah, he was Man, that photo of him.

Which one? Which one? I'm thinking of the right guy. Braids. Yeah, braids with the leather straps. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. When you described him on the podcast and then I saw, I can't remember where I saw that phone.

A little video of him. Yeah. I was like, oh, okay. That guy. We followed him all over, all over that ranch looking for the Folsom site. It's kind of at a weird place. Yeah. And we kind of got turned around.

So the Folsom site, you actually, you can't go to it. Yeah. It's not like a national park. park or something. It's, there's a public, publicly owned 10 acres that the Folsom site is on. So it is, the Folsom site is on public land, but it's land blocked by private. Yeah. So there's no legal access to get in there. We had to get permission from the ranch owner to get back in there. And there's nothing to see there either. Yeah, you would never know you were at the Folsom site. It just looks like a patch of grass and a ditch. No fence? Well, there's, yeah, there's a big fence around it.

keep the cattle off of this ranch off of it just so it's not. Do they still do digs out there? No. Well, yes, they will one day. What's, what I learned from Dr. Meltzer is that archaeological sites, there is, like, etiquette, their rules in the way archaeological sites are now developed or excavated, and they purposefully leave some stuff for technology

that maybe we can't even foresee that in a hundred years from now somebody will be able to go back in and learn more which is just bizarre to me so the way it's the way it worked was that the site was excavated in 1927 and that was the first time it was excavated

and there was a bunch of people involved in that and then that was it and it was a multi-year process and then David Meltzer, Dr. David Meltzer from SMU in Dallas, he basically built a case for why they needed to go back and do a second excavation of the Folsom site. And I don't know what people in processes you have to go through,

but he got permission and they went in and did like a multi-year second excavation of the site and learned a whole bunch of new stuff. And now they had radio carbon dating. Right. They did not find any points, though. And then when Steve Ronella was there, after. Oh, he's been out there? Yeah.

Oh. Yeah. When Rinella was there after Meltzer did his excavation, Steve said they were standing there at the Folsom site, and he looked down, and there was a bone sticking out of the dirt. For real. And he said he's so bad, wanted to go over there and pull it out. And the archaeologists that he was with was like, don't touch it.

So there's something connected with that bone. And archaeologist's a little onry. He was for sure. Man, poor Steve, what if that's like the finding of the century? And he was robbed of. He'll get credited with it in 50 years. Okay. No one will remember Steve Ronella for his media or for all his accolades.

They'll go. He's the guy that found that bone. Tell you what they're going to remember. He was the one media guy. that got off of his horse got out of his Subaru and walk down to look at that bone

they're also going to remember that he's two and a half feet taller than you are oh God yeah that was wild from that Instagram video that photo he was on a stool he was so

okay if you're not up to date on what it's being spoken of here there was video that leaked out of Steve Ronell and I debating a painting. And he was standing on a... He had the higher ground. He was on a milking stool.

It looked like. So in this living room, there was a, you know how a wood stove will be setting up off the ground? To have like a rock platform that it's sitting up on. It had to be a pretty high platform. A platform is six inches, maybe. He was three feet taller than you. He was standing on. On that rock platform, Dan.

Were you kneeling before you? I don't know. It was, he's taller than me for sure. What? Not like a foot taller than me. He's more than a foot taller than you in that photo. Oh, man. But the good news is, is that I was right.

Oh, gosh. It was evening? It was evening. It looked like evening to me. And then, but then Steve comes up with this whole thing about death of the author. Have you all heard about death of the author? It's like an artist does a painting or a writer write something, and even their intent doesn't matter.

What matters is how it's perceived by the reader. So they call it death of the author. So you could look at a painting and go, that's morning. And then the author chimes in on Instagram and says, no, it's actually evening, even though you thought it was morning, Steve. And Clay's trying to tell you that is what happened. That's exactly what happened. And then, but then death of the author means that, and Steve brought this up,

it doesn't matter what the author thinks. It's what your perception is. As I recall, you and I were correct. Yeah, Brent was with me the whole time. Thanks, Brent. How many times does this exact phenomenon happen as you are looking at your neighbor's Halloween decorum, death of the author? Listen, I'm just trying to feed my family.

Oh, toes have been stepped on. Speechless. That's how those community conversations are going to go, listen. If you could have seen it, Brent. Literally, literally, there was skeletons in lawn chairs. A fire, a fake fire, a cross with a burning witch. Oh, wow. This is a scenario.

Wow, okay, that does sound a little intense. And the people in the lawn chairs had a dog leash that was connected to the skeleton of a dog. Wow. That's one step too. I was, until you described the dead dog,

I was with all. I was so careful. It was just like, why are we celebrating this? Why are we celebrating this? Worth it. Man, the money.

Okay. George McJunkin. I love, what's so great about all this is I'm learning inside of all this as well, you know? It's, it's pretty fascinating.

to explore these unique people and really dive in deep and understand who they are. He's laughing. Why are we laughing? Mr. are you thinking he's not learned a dang thing? I think that Clay probably wanted to edit out my initial comments about the Halloween bitches. And we just keep bringing it back up.

I can tell by the way he was looking at an eye. And it is like the episode. Halloween. I'm sorry. Happy Halloween. We said all that to say, happy Thanksgiving, folks. Happy Thanksgiving. No, I enjoyed learning about George McJunkin.

These guys I'll never forget. I feel like when I look into anybody, whether it's James Lawrence, Warner Glenn, Roy Clark, Britt Davis, all these guys. I mean, part of being human is that we don't live in isolation. and we can look at people's lives and glean stuff from it. I mean, how stupid would you be to think that you're just this independent guy

that's just going to build your life based upon no influence from somebody else? I want to be influenced by a guy like George. I mean, when he, I mean, he dealt with stuff that I'll never deal with, but he was, he just was dead set on what he wanted to do. I appreciate guys that are just gritty and tough. I do. I'm a sucker for gritty and tough. And man,

if you're a good Bronc rider, you're gritty and tough. If you're a black guy back in the 1800s that is scrapping his way up inside of the ranching community in this area, you've got to be pretty gritty. Yep. And then his grittiness to learn how to read and write

when a lot of people probably weren't. Yeah. Just, I respect the guy. He was funny too. He had a good sense of humor and just, I like him. I'm going to incorporate that into my life. Yeah. And if you're ever in Folsom, go to the museum.

It's pretty cool. It is. I was surprised to walk around while I was making a bunch of noise while you were trying to record a podcast. And there was a piece of art in there that was donated by somebody from Fayetteville, Arkansas. Really? Yeah. I was like, oh, look at that.

Wow. But yeah, fascinating stuff from historic stuff to fossils to everything. World War II stuff. Yeah. Pretty cool. Cool. Thanks, everybody. Really appreciate it.

You are welcome. Keep the wild places wild. Last spring, Clay Newcomb and I collaborated with Jason Phelps at Phelps game calls in building each of our own favorite turkey diaphragms called Prime Cuts. Now, I'm going to tell you, I love mine because it's easy. to use. I'm not going to go, I'm not going to win a turkey calling contest. It's just not going to happen. But when I run this call, I get the sounds that goblers are looking for. I have a great turkey hunting track record. If you go listen to real turkeys out in the woods, they're not going to win

calling contests, right? That's who I listen to. I can make those sounds on my cut. I also hunt with Phelps's cut, and I hunt with Clay's cut because they're all three great cuts. Check out prime cuts at Phelps game calls.com. I think you'll be glad you did. And you'll find out that the Steve Rinella cut is an easy-to-use cut for beginning callers who just want to start making good turkey noises and getting action. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.