Bear Grease - Ep. 296: Render - Mountain Goat Hunt and Mr. Ellis Bell

Episode Date: February 12, 2025

On this episode of the Bear Grease Render, join host Clay Newcomb, Bear Newcomb, Josh "Landbridge" Spielmaker, Dr. Misty Newcomb, and special guest Dr. Malachi Nichols.  With the release of the new Meateater film "Alaska Mountain Goat Hunt," Clay gives behind the scenes details of this adventure and the harrowing retrieval of the goat.  Then, the whole crew discusses the impact of the remarkable story of the life of Mr. Ellis Bell and lessons to be learned from his long history of determination and fortitude. Listen to more of Ellis Bell's story here: Part 1: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tears-and-triumphs-of-a-minority-farmer/id1743852550?i=1000657779991Part 2: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tears-and-triumphs-of-a-minority-farmer-part-2/id1743852550?i=1000658594043 If you have comments on the show, send us a note to [e-mail] Connect with Clay and MeatEater Clay on Instagram MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, and Youtube Clips MeatEater Podcast Network on YouTube Shop Bear Grease MerchSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. First Lights fieldware collection is made for the work that happens long before opening day and continues when the season ends. Products built for early mornings, full days and real use. Hard wearing where they need to be versatile where it matters. No shortcuts. Just gear designed for the work that earns the season.

Built to perform, built to last. Check out. First Light's new field. Worldware Gear at firstlight.com. My name is Clay Newcomb, and this is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called the Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual Bear Grease podcast. Presented by FHF Gear, American Made, Purpose Built, Hunting and Fishing Gear that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. Ready to go.

And just like that, here we are. We have a very, we've got a great group of people here today. Potentially the best ever. We're going to spend a lot of time talking about two things. I want to talk about my goat hunt in Alaska. We had a film come out just this week on the media YouTube channel. And I want to give some behind the scenes. I have some props.

Oh. And I kind of have a big story to tell that the film just couldn't tell. Okay. Man, as much as you would think that the medium of video would be the primary way to tell a story, it is not at all. Video is all hype and fluff. Writing and podcasting is the way you tell a story. Eat your vegetables, everyone. I think you could throw in storytelling.

Well, I mean, but in what form? Audio. Audio. I guess podcast. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess I'm not 63. You know.

Sometimes when I'm talking to older people, I tell them we have an internet radio program. Yeah, yeah. I've explained to many people that have been on Bear Grease. It's kind of like a radio show, but it's on the internet, and you can listen to it anytime. So we made this big video about my goat hunt, and I'm going to talk about that.

But secondly, we're going to talk about a podcast that I think, when I heard what our production team at Meteor, finished up. Me and Josh work on the nuts and bolts and content. We script bear grease in our minds, and then we basically give our design to the production team that makes it. And so, you know, we hear kind of with imperfection

what we think it's going to sound like. And then when we hear it, it's like, it pops. And I feel like this is one of the best bear grease of all time, period. That's my personal, personal, I just loved it. I like the name of it. It kind of matches that, the incredible life of Ellis Bell. It kind of felt like a Hollywood, like one of those fantastical.

Extraordinary. It was an extraordinary life of Ellis Bellsville. So we're going to talk about that. So we have Dr. Misty Newcomb. So great to see you. Beautiful scarf. Thank you. My daughter got this for me on a recent international trip.

We have Josh Lambridge filmmaker. Here. Great to see you, Josh. Me and Josh rode 25 miles on mules the last two days, hog hunting for another day. And for a guy who doesn't ride mules, that's a lot. For another day. This saddle, don't for a second. Which camera?

Don't for a second think that this saddle is just for show. Colt George made that saddle for me in Wyoming, and there was a hog laid over that. Yep. There's blood on the other side. There's blood on this thing. Yeah, this was 25 miles in the backcountry two days ago. And then today. Riding mules, honestly, places I didn't think you could ride anything.

Yeah. Yep. Yeah, we were some woolly places. Yep. Josh got. But, hey, guys, that's a different story. Sorry. I'm not going to talk about it.

Goats in the extraordinary life of Mr. Ellis. Got Bear John Newcomb. Yep. Glad to be here. Bears got some big films coming out for meteor. Me and Janus Puetellus have a constant years long back and forth about. about semantics between whether what we make is films or episodes. I make films.

Right. Yonis says, Clay, you don't make films. You make episodes. And so, what? I mean, like, when we make these meat eater, basically anything that goes on meat eater, because Yonis has stuff on me either,

I have stuff on me theater. I say, great film, Janus, like, went on his stuff. And he goes, Clay, I don't make films. That was just an episode. I feel like his stuff is episodes. Your stuff is films. Except the Bear Greas Road trip. Thanks, Bear.

Whoa. My point exactly. I said, y'allis, I'm an artist. See, I determine it by time. Yeah. An episode is like 20 minutes to 45 minutes. Anything longer than 45 minutes is a film. Well, okay.

Then I make an episode. I think that's a legitimate claim. I honestly think that's a legitimate claim. It is. What Malik I say? Yeah. 21 to 41. It's all about the genre of you're inside of,

of because like all these like the Yeti short films are like eight minutes long and they're in they're they call them films it it actually is a it's it's semantics that revolves around the artistic quality of the said thing like it's intent it's kind of like hey are we grilling burgers or we're making steaks we're making an episode or are we making a film okay so me and yonis have this this and i call it films yonis yonis is an artist he is Literally an artist. He is. And a heck of a great guy.

He is. I wish he could be out on the Bear Griesender. Bear has multiple films coming out in the next couple weeks. The debut films. Debut films that he's in that are going to be really great. We have Dr. Malachi Nichols here. Hello, hello. Hey, me and Josh were talking about your history on the Bear Greece podcast.

I'm OG. Literally. Were you on the first Bergerie Shrender? I believe I was on the first like I was on the first like six maybe. I think he was. Oh really?

Yeah. And check just cleared so I'm back. I'm back. Back, baby. That check just clear. I just got the email from the paper. We are heavily weighted with doctors today.

We are. We are heavily weighted with doctors. 40% of the crew here's have legitimate doctorates. Dr. Malachi Nichols. Dr. Nocum. Yep. And then.

Some of us have illicit. legitimate doctorates. That'd be Clay. He wants to put himself in here with us and say, I'm a doctor. He went through the Gary Newcomb School. Well, I mean, I do have a Ph.D. in the Gary Newcomb School of Hunting Hard Knocks. And if anybody has that, that's you. That's all I got, though.

That's all I got. No, it's good to have you, Dr. Nichols. Very good to have you. So when I, tell us what your doctor says. I have a PhD in education policy. Education policy. What does that mean? I can essentially like I'm trained to be able to evaluate educational programs and educational policies and give color to the black and white numbers around research.

Nice. And you're a squirrel hunter. I'm a squirrel hunter. It's real serious. You and your boys. My boys are squirrel hunters. The other day I have to tell this, I have to tell this. story. So we have like a yearly, was it, New Year's Day squirrel hunt with the Newcoms,

and this is year two for my boys, and we go out with squirrel hunt. They love it. I took my youngest. He's two this year. Oldest is four. So like a week later after the squirrel hunt, we're like preparing for like family golf, like going out to play golf. Which is a big deal. It's a big deal. Once a week we usually play golf as a family, my wife included. My oldest looks at me and goes, Dad, you know squirrel hunting is funner than golf. Oh! He said that to me. Get in the car right now.

I want to talk about it. I want to talk about it. True story. Really? True story. Dad, you know, squirrel hunting is funner than golf. I love it. So we only did it, we only did squirrel hunting for two years. That was it.

That was it. That was it. Just wrapped that up. Man, I would make a shirt. I would make a shirt. Squirrel hunting is funer than golf. Dad. Quote,

with his name underneath it. Oh my gosh. That is funny. True story. I think you've been holding that back for me. I have. You knew that it would cause a little too much. It would like increase the level of influence of hunting inside of my children's life.

My boys have camo before I've had camo. It's how serious it is. Yeah. It's a serious. Wow. This is major. I had no idea. Well, I'll tell you, I'll handle.

I'll handle this for. responsibly. I may pitch in a few bones to the golf. They'll be, when I'm talking to him, I'll be like, hey, golf's pretty fun too with your dad. They'll be like,

you sure? That is super funny. So this week on the YouTube media channel, we came out with my Alaskan goat film, Mountain goat, which is I was in Alaska in, mid-August of 24 with my friend

and guide David Bennett's David is a business called Stikeen guide service and he is I've known David for like over a decade through Bear Honey magazine stuff so we kind of

had this relationship but he was the guy I went wolf trapping with a couple years ago well last winter and David is he is a just a bad to the bone, Alaskan guy. I could tell stories about David that just, I'll tell you one.

He, he multiple times, he's a veteran bow hunter. And he's, he's killing Boone and Crocket animals with his bow up there in Alaska. And he wanted to kill a Boone and Crocket Caribou. And he flew into this place. And for the, for the Super Cub, all that they could carry was, you know, X amount of gear in him. and make it out there and then make it back. And so he had limited amount of gear he could take. Went on this solo hunt, carried 12 days worth of food and gear.

That's all he had. But he planned to stay just like as long as it took. So on day 12, when he ran out of food, he just like, he stayed out there without food and just killed grouse and ate berries and drank water out of the creek for nine days and finally killed this huge caribou day. I mean, that is wild. What was he killing? What's that?

What was he killing to eat daily? Grouse. Grouse. Yeah, he was shooting grouse with his bow and cooking grouse over a fire. And for nine days, that's what he did. And I mean, he'll tell you that story, like, and, like, not even think it's cool, you know? And he does some really elongated moose hunts, like, floating, like, 150-plus miles solo in a raft down, rivers and after

big moose I mean the guy he just every time you're around him he'll just tell you a story that you just are like are you kidding but he's been he's living in like he's 57 lived in Alaska's the whole life his entire life has been a commercial fisherman guide

and professional trapper and uh you know on this mountain goat hunt mountain goats malachi live in the roughest, wildest places in North America, like, period. They live, and it's like, there's this, like, trophic scheme of where animals live based on elevation and food and whatnot. And the mountain goats just learned, I mean, their strategy is to live in the places where predators can't go because it's just too rough and cliffy.

And so they're living in these, like, wild places. And, and, uh, I started that. story to tell something else. So essentially, when you go hunt a mountain goat, you're going into the roughest spots in North America to get them. David Bennett is 12 years older than me, and he was in better shape than me. And I was working pretty hard to be in shape. And I had some people ask me what I did.

And I'm not like an ultra-athlete or anything, but I do. work to stay in shape. And essentially for six months, I was pounding the stairmaster. With a pack. With a pack on, like a weighted pack, just trying to just build up my legs, you know? Yeah, I'd see you in the gym with like a camo backpack that's probably hauled out like a bunch of dead animals. And you're like on the stairmaster, like walking with all these old men. Well, I think I'd like to, it actually became a subject of family memes.

We sent them around because the gym we go see. is not like a backhunter's gym. And so, like, there's all these people there. They've got their fancy gear. And then there's Clay running around with this nasty old backpack. It's pretty funny to us. And so we started sending in the memes, and we have our own little, Clay doesn't know it.

There's a little thread without them. And there's, we have all sorts of funny statements about, you know, it was very flattering, I think, like, just about being. But now I have a weighted best. It's true. It's like a, it looks like a SWAT team. It's like it's supposed to be there. We're in our weighted best era.

You just look like a homeless guy. Epic gym fails. So, yeah, yeah, I often wondered what people thought. Just your kids. Just your kids. I mean, they're like, oh, I'm sure other people thought that's great. I had a conversation. One guy at the gym was like, that's a sweet backpack.

And I could tell he was. kind of like, what are you doing? And I said, yeah, yeah. I said, I said, I'm actually going on a hunt in Alaska. And so I put weight in this thing and training, trying to get where I can walk up mountains. And he was like, for real? And there's a guy in my neighborhood. I can tell he's going on a trip because he's been hiking with a backpack all around.

You need to ask him where he's going. I know, I need to ask him. Yeah. And I said, I'm hunting mountain goats. And he was like, what? What's a mountain goat? And, you know, I told him. I don't know if he thought I was like not like

might have thought it was a crazy guy that was just like making stuff up yeah but anyway next time I see him I'm going to be like hey you want to watch this film put this in front of your stair mask so the mountain goat so but David is just an incredible guy there was a little part on the film where it kind of did like a bio piece on David and it was it was interesting he

when he was a senior in high school he graduated high and he had a commercial fisherman taken back into a cove and leave him for three months with about a hundred traps and he he stayed out there for three months and trapped he uh he's a he's a he's a heck of a guy oh he's a heck of a guy and uh

so my strategy on the film or on the hunt was just to was to try to kill a mountain goat with a bow which to me would probably been the most challenging hunt that it would have done. And Frank Nostka is a veteran, probably one of the most decorated bow hunters in the world. You won't see him on films and stuff, but he's done the Grand Slam,

the archery world Grand Slam, killing all 27 big game species with a bow for sure twice and probably working on his next grand... I mean, he's like one of the Michael Jordans of bow hunting. Guy you wouldn't see on any films. I don't know

that there's a film about Frank Naska. But I had seen an article. There might be an episode about one. There was a, I saw him in a picture one time of him with a goat

and he was dressed in a fully white suit with little ears on his hat. And so I had Josh Landbridge spill maker. Oh.

make me a goat hat. And I message Frank Nostka and I said, hey. Oh, Ben and Crockett. Yeah, I'm a monster. Our biggest mistake was making those horns that big, which was, well, I messaged Frank and I said, hey, tell me about decoying these goats. So Malachi, you dress up like a goat. I don't think everyone dresses like a goat, do they? No.

Okay. Just Clay and Frank. Clea Frank. But these goats are in such remote places that anything, when they see something white, they just think it's a goat. And so I asked Frank about it and he said, he gave me some advice.

He said, when you see goats that you can't stalk using terrain, typically you would use terrain to stalk the goats. Like you'd get behind rocks or the hill would roll and they'd be down at the bottom and you could pick over and shoot. But it's so open in some places you can't stalk goats because like, They just can see you. You know, you're 100 yards away,

and they're just like standing there looking at you. So that's when you use a decoy suit. And he said, he said, just start moving towards them. And if they see you and act nervous, he said, just stop. He said, just lay down for an hour. Just wait. And eventually they get okay with you. And you just kind of move towards them and just evaluate, like, their response to it.

So that's part one. I wanted, and so me and Josh made this, which this is a leafy suit, but we spray painted it white. And so it has, y'all want me to put this on, don't you? Oh, yeah, of course we do. We spray painted it white. I'll just put it on the top. So there's the bottoms. But this is a first light leafy suit that we, that Josh actually spray painted.

And it made the perfect, like, textured. most of the guys wear like a like a tieback painter's suit which they work good but let me tell you what works better this surprised we didn't catch you in the gym

wearing that too I got kicked out I definitely have pictures of clay there's a picture that I was going to meet someone we were going to a coffee shop to do some work and I said I'll be there in 20 minutes and anyway I think Clay was going to come and he was going to drop me off and go do something else. And I texted her a

picture of Clay talking to River and her friends in this outfit. And I just texted her that picture because they were all eating dinner at our house. And I came down the stairs with all my stuff. And I look and there's Clay dressed in this outfit. We're supposed to leave. He's dressed in this outfit. And he's got his hands up like this impersonating, I guess a mountain, a scared mountain goat. I don't know. He's got his hands up like this. And so I just took a picture and I sent it to her. And I said, hey, I came downstairs to this. So I think I'm going to be a little late. He's pretty proud of that suit.

I am. I am. It was, it was, it was, it was, it worked really great. And so on, on day four, Malachi of this hunt, and, and I could, I don't know, y'all, you cue me up if there's, I just kind of wanted to give a behind-the-scenes look at the hunt. A lot of people ask questions, um, about the goat suit. And, but I mainly want to talk about the recovery.

So, Bear, Bear, if you have questions. Hey, can I add something about the recovery that happened before you left? Okay. So before Clay left, we were at church. And our pastor said, Clay, let's all pray for Clay, pray for his safety while he's out there. And I was like, huh, that's an interesting thing to say. He's never said that before on any of Clay's trips. And he's a veteran hunter.

And he's a veteran hunter, yeah. And maybe Clay wasn't even, I can't remember if Clay was there or if he'd already left. where he's like, okay, Clay's on that mountain. Go ahead. Let's everyone this week, y'all just be praying for Clay's safety. And I was just like, well, that's interesting. I mean, that kind of stuck in my mind. And then we hear this story of this retrieval.

Last spring, Clay Newcomb and I collaborated with Jason Phelps at Phelps game calls and building each of our own favorite turkey diaphragms called prime cuts. Now, I'm going to tell you, I love mine because it's easy to use. I'm not going to go, I'm not going to win a turkey calling contest. It's just not going to happen. But when I run this call, I get the sounds that gobblers are looking for. I have a great turkey hunting track record. If you go listen to real turkeys out in the woods, they're not going to win calling contests, right?

That's who I listen to. I can make those sounds on my cut. I also hunt with Phelps's cut, and I hunt with Clay's cut because they're all three great cuts. Check out prime cuts at Phelps game calls.com. I think you'll be glad you did. And you'll find out that the Steve Ronella cut is an easy-to-use cut for beginning callers who just want to start making good turkey noises and getting action. So on the goat, Malachi, I was able to get within 70 yards by using terrain.

So, I mean, you could have just said like normal Camelon and got to within 70 yards. I really needed to be inside. I wanted a 40-yard shot, but really needed to be inside of 50 for, being comfortable with a bow. And so at 70 yards, I essentially just stood up in my goat suit and just walked straight towards him without anything between us. And the goat never directly even looked at me. They have eyes on the side of their head, like a prey animal, and so they can see way

further behind them than we can. And the goat would just like turn its head just a little bit. I could tell it was looking at me out of the corner of its eye, but never even directly looked at me. And basically, I just walked into 40 yards with this hat on and walked into 45 yards. And I was just like, this is, this is it. I mean, this is as close as I need to be. And drew back, shoot the goat. The goat, when you shoot an animal with archery equipment, they typically, they don't go far, but they run. Yeah. You don't just drop them. The goat, goats are, always within running distance of some terrible, nasty, cliffy, rocky stuff.

That's their escape strategy. Like if a wolf had come up there, if a grizzly, like they're always like not far from being to something crazy. This goat was out in the middle of what looked like a pasture. It was real steep. But it was, I mean, you could have seen this goat for like, well, we saw the goat from a long ways away. It was like, well, there he is right out in the middle of that face.

face. Then we got in real close and I stalked around to the goat. And when I shot it, it went right towards the cliffy stuff that was right there. And it, it, you can see it in the film. It beds down on this big snowbank and it's still alive. I put another arrow in it. And it's just slides off the mountain. Just goes down. And I can't see it. We go down and the goat is like 150 feet down. wedged underneath this huge block of ice. And again, I'm not even going to describe it. You can just watch the film. And I can get down, when we finally see the, I can get down fairly safely to within about 15 feet of the goat. And David is there, dirt myth, the cameraman, legendary cameraman. Garrett, Dirt Myth Smith is there.

And this is what I couldn't say on the film, is that David said, guys, this is not a goat that we can recover, essentially. And just because of the precarious situation. Yeah, and he warned us, he said, guys, this is the kind of stuff that when you fall, they don't recover your body. He said that to us. he was just like, because he knew me and dirt were very motivated to get that goat. And he was doing his job of just saying, he said, we'll just, that happens in goat hunting. Sometimes you shoot a goat that you don't recover because it just falls into the abyss. And that's terrible.

Like that in hunting, like such a, there's such a high priority put on recovering the animal and taking the meat out. I mean, like, period. That's what we all want to do. And so we're very motivated to get this goat. We can see it. And it's lodged up under this ice. And David, and again, at this point, we weren't even thinking about filming. I mean, the film is like, we're not even making a film anymore.

We're trying to survive. Dirt's camera is like way up on the mountain. And here we are down here, you know, having this little discussion. While in Dirt basically, well, I get down. And there's like this little shelf about as big as a car hood that I'm very safe on. But it took, I had to climb down 150 feet through this little drainage. You can see it on one of my, you can see it on the film. It doesn't look near as precarious as it was.

Josh is a skier, and he knows that when you take ski videos, they always look. Yeah, you know, you think, I just skied down something crazy steep. And then you see the video, it's like, oh, a toddler could have walked across that. It's not true. This took every bit of everything I had to get down. to here but but it but i was safe and i felt like i could get back up that's the problem with this kind of stuff is you might be able to go down something but you got to come back up it and so i'm sitting there see the goat dirt's here and dirt myth is a just he is a savage of a man

he's dirt's probably like my height probably like five 10ish i don't know and that's pushing it but and uh he's a veteran rock climber um he's a veteran rock climber um Steve Ronella calls him a world-class hiker. He's just strong. He's raised on a ranch in Montana. And it's just an incredible guy. And Dirt's brother is a professional rock climber. And Dirt has done some trips that just will blow your mind about rock climbing.

So he knew his way around rocks. We had one little bitty rope. And Dirt says, hey, I think I can get to that goat and put a rope on it. horns and he said here's what you do clay he said you stay up here on this flat spot and belay me off of belay means put a kink in the rope off of a rock and he's like to use as a break yeah and so he he ties this little nylon rope like around his waist and a special knot and and he's not using he's not putting his weight on the rope he's the rope is just like safety like if he falls then all his weight would be on it.

And I would then be the one holding it. And the belay rock is not good. Like it's rounded. And so I keep saying, dirt, this rock, I said, what if the rope slips over the top? And he said, man, if you just keep pressure on it, it won't. He just understood the physics of it. He's like, the smallest amount of pressure

is going to keep it from slipping over. And I'm just like, okay, man. And you see it in the film. I say dirt, if you have any reservations about doing this, don't do it. And while he's like tying it on, he says, oh, I have reservations. Yeah. And what you can't see in the film is that like this is like the scariest thing I've ever done in my life. I mean, for real.

Like no acting, no, like we weren't. It was just I was petrified. What's the time frame like from shot, second shot to like. him putting on the rope. Two hours. Yeah. To get down there and get set up. And him coming back up.

What's the time? I mean, do you even know? Two and a half hours, three hours. It was like a three, probably a three hour window. Okay.

And in the film, it's like four minutes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like this buildup. There was a lot of us talking about it with David, like how are we going to get down there and him.

Okay, the other thing that he did that he would tell us later is that he en reached his wife who was back home and said David did this. David said, stay by the phone. Stay by your phone. Don't leave the house and have the Coast Guard on. Just like look up the, not the Coast Guard.

Look up the, yeah, the Coast Guard. The Coast Guard. That's what, because it was, that's the, he said, look up their number and just be ready. He said, don't leave the house until you hear from me. Stay by your phone. I mean, David was worked up about it. But David also, he trusted dirt.

He trusted us to not do something stupid. Right. And so this we would all learn later, you know. And so dirt shimmies down and gets down. And what you can't tell in the film, There's just no way to describe it. Is that goat, if it had not lodged right under that ice and that rock, it would have tumbled 800 feet. And you can't see it.

It looks like it just kind of like gradually slopes down. But I told Misty, it wasn't like a vertical face like Wiley Coyote, like if you'd have jumped, you to just bend in the air. It was one of these deals where you would have fallen and you would have been dead within 50 feet. but you would have just went, but you would have ended up 800 feet down. Like zero chance of survival. Wow. Are you going to tell about what it sounded like? Yeah.

So dirt gets down and ropes the goat. And when he does, it's just like, holy cow, he did it. When he, this wasn't on film because I'm belaying. Like the part of the film that that is on that you do see is just when I had a second to just film with my phone. dirt when he went down and I'm like full scale pulling the slack out like I'm putting pressure on him just a little bit he he had his foot on the rock and he would kick into the ice bank and get a foothold and then like jump down I mean he was like doing some super technical stuff and when he finally gets down and once he's like under the ice like he's kind of safe because he can kind of brace up against the ice and the rock And he gets the rope on the goat. I tighten the rope up on the goat. Can't budge it.

Like, can't even budge it. He grabs the goat by the horns and yanks it out of the ice. And he just, like, brute adrenaline strength. He yanks it out of the ice. And I pulled the slack out of the rope. And I'm holding it. And he climbs back up and, like, holding onto the rope. And me and him both pull the goat.

and it's too heavy. We get it halfway up this little face, and we're just like, can't do it, can't do it. And so I belay the goat, the goats hanging on the side, and I say, Dirt, we've got to gut the goat. We've got to get his guts out. We can't get him out. And Dirt actually said, okay, do you think you can get it now that the goat's up a little closer? And I just said, Dirt, I can't. And for this, I'm very proud of clay.

I just said, I just said dirt. There's no way. I can't do it. You tried for a second, didn't you? No. Okay. I mean, I just, and he said, no problem. He said, I'll do it.

Give me your knife. So the goat is hanging on this cliff face, like, probably like eight feet from where it was. What's that? Stand up next. When you have an animated part, stand up. Okay. The goat is hanging on this cliff face, probably eight feet from where it was lodged, and we've pulled it up. So dirt goes back down there and is standing here, ice sheet here, cliff face behind him, I'm up there, and he guts this goat like it's hanging from a tree limb.

And when he guts the goat, I get butterflies in my stomach telling the story, the guts just like fall out. just like they would if you're skinning a deer up in a tree. And the guts confirmed the physics of what we believed would happen. Those guts just went, I mean, it's not like he had to, like, kick them. The guts just went, just off the side of the mountain. And it was just like this little watershed, you know. But now the goat weighs like 30, probably 30, probably 30,

pounds less. He shimmies back up. He did it. He put the rope over his shoulder, and I'm just kind of like scrambling to just grab whatever I can, and he just like takes off. We worked together, but he did the most of it. Pull this goat back up on this little, you know,

hood car-sized shelf perched up on this, on this mountain. And I mean, we were just like, we just hugged. You can see the celebration. What's not on the celebration that I've told many people, anybody that would sit long enough to listen, like you lovely people, when he got back up there,

I wept, like wept like a child. I mean, not because of the dang goat. I mean, some people cry, you know, like it wasn't a celebration that I got the goat.

Just a sense of relief. I just, raw emotion. Just like, I grabbed his hands and we prayed and I thank God that dirt was safe and I mean I'm serious I just bawled and I mean you know

there's no video of that and then we were for the most part out of the woods sort of and I mean and then it took another hour we processed the goat right there on the mountain had our bags we deboned it took everything out

and then we had to get out. And that was a child. I was so, I had been in this suit sitting in basically water for two and a half hour. That little rock shelf just had like a trickle of water coming out. And I had to sit in it to belay. And so like I'm wet on the backside. The wind is blowing.

It's cold. And I was shaking from cold and from just nerd. And then we've got to go back up And I got to carry meat And a couple of times on the way up I kind of just like froze and panic And you can see my leg shaking in one part of the film But it's like so we get to go it out

Everything's fine End of story. Everybody live happily over after Needs to say we baked there to a pretty good apple pie From the Nuka Farm Yeah And no it was not fun. I mean, like, not even remotely. I mean, it's cool that we documented

it, you know, and like now we can celebrate this, like, experience. But it, when I think about that hunt, it is not fun. Like, it, it was all I wanted. So, you can watch the whole film.

I meet your YouTube channel. When I tell people the story, all the people in my life say, why didn't they just leave the goat? Yeah. Yeah. Good question, Faye.

Well, we just didn't want to. Dedication. Dedication. It's as deep as it goes. But, yeah, so that's the story. Should I take this off for the rest of the? Probably should. It might be a little distracting you and that very handsome leafy suit.

I'm going to get it off. Is that the same? leafy suit that didn't I give you that leafy suit? Yeah. Oh, I bet you're a leafy suit?

I did. I spent all my money on there. I got you a new one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's a first light leafy top. Isn't that what I got you for Father's Day? You spray painted it, son? You should be grounded.

Ah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, we had to talk about that, but I, the Ellis Bell podcast to me is way more unique than a film like this. Yeah. For real.

For real. What you wouldn't know, again, like backstory. That was recorded with Ellis Bell last week. We sat on it for like a day. We worked on it the next day. and produced it in two days. And it came out this week. How did you find him?

The Arkansas Farm Bureau podcast called Agri Culture. It's a regional Farm Bureau insurance podcast, had done a podcast with Ellis Bell. And he actually told a lot of the same stories. And I meant to publicly thank the guys at Farm Bureau because they actually helped me get in touch with Ellsbell. Steve Eddington. Yep.

And so big thanks to them. But I didn't know Ellis Bell. But when I heard him on their podcast, which there's a shorter. Yeah. I think it's a two-part podcast. 15 minutes, I think. Yeah. They do some cool stuff.

I listen to them. And they do some really cool stuff. And they talked about him being part of the Arkansas Agricultural Hall of Fame. And he's told some of the same stories he told us. But so that's how I knew him. That's how we met him. You know, I love it when somebody can tell their own story. I think that's really valuable and unique, especially when it's in their own words and their own perspective.

Could you lose that? Like, it's somebody else telling the first person account. And so hearing his, you know, hearing the years in his voice and hearing the history and like how he perceived things. I mean, it was really interesting. Yeah. Really interesting. What stood out to you, Malika?

Man, I think I was impacted by his mom and the story about his mom getting her clothes on and going to help like the only white family in the region or in that area. Yeah. And him being like, that's a white woman. Miss Jones is a white woman. And his mom looking at she's a human being. You know what I mean? And how like at 87 he remembers that. Yes.

You know what I mean? And it just, I don't know, real impacting to see how influential you as a parent have on your children and your response will shape them. Even like, she probably didn't even think twice about that response. Right? Like totally forgot about it. But like that shaped his perception and how he saw people for the rest of his life. And for him to remember that, I just think is super cool. Well, and she did that in the early 1940s.

Yeah. He was four or five years old, he told us. And, I mean, at probably the peak of the Jim Crow era in the South. Yeah. And hear this woman in the privacy of her own home with no knowledge that this was going to be broadcast. Yeah. 83 years later. Yeah. That she did what she did.

I mean, that's a high level of character, I think. Yeah. that that that story to me was like the the yeah it was a high point in it and because how much it impacted him yeah yeah you know on the on the farm bureau podcast i think mr ellis like was almost crying when he told that story yeah yeah uh when i first heard it yeah because he told that story on their podcast too and um yeah that was that was something Yeah. So that was a good one. I also liked the story and how his pride could have gotten the way of the airplane. Yeah. And I can't remember the phrase that he used or you used around like, I just chose a different path. The guy, the crop duster told him, change your pattern. Yeah. Change your pattern. And I just thinking it's a, I don't know, I am, there's been a few times, say, in the last year. that I've gotten to sit and listen to older men, talk about their lives and their journey.

And there's something like super, I mean, the word I'll use is like sweet and genuine when a guy towards the end of their life can look back and like see a story and grab a principle and like cherish that principle and be willing to like give it to somebody else. And so like that principle of like, man, just change your pattern. You don't have to be right. You don't have to, like, prove your point. Just change your pattern. Like, you'll stay in the up and up.

I know, I value older men who have processed things. And whether it was right or wrong, right, what they've gone through and being able to package in a way that's exportable to other people and being willing to export it to other people. Yeah. Without some sort of token or reward back. Yeah. I don't know.

It's just a... I like that change of pattern. On Blood Trails, the stories don't end when the hunt is over. They just get darker. I've seen something in the road. I instantly thought it was a sleeping bag. And there was a full of blood. Oh, my God, he doesn't have a hit.

Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors, where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce, and the truth gets buried under brush and silence. Indications were he should be right there, but he wasn't. This season, we're going deeper. From cold case files to whispered suspicions, from remote mountains to frozen backwoods. Each story begins in the wilderness and ends in darkness.

Because out here, there are no witnesses, no cameras, just fragments and the people left behind trying to piece them back together. He's not an honest person. He's incapable of being honest. Somebody somewhere know something. I'm Jordan Sillers. Season 2 of Blood Trails premieres April 16th. Follow now on Apple, I Heart, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Man, he had the kind of the architectural stories of his life on a nice little platter. And again, I knew that because Josh didn't, Josh was the one who did that interview. and you didn't necessarily like team up like hey tell us what you told them no not at all not at all i mean there was no reference to that and he he he told those same stories it's like these are key moments when i was five years old i saw this sharecropper crying and it's almost like that informed him of like oh there's some injustice in the world i mean a four-year-old boy knew that this grown man crying. It impacted him. And then when he heard why, I mean, it obviously wasn't until he was an adult that he understood the bigger picture of really what was happening. But he remembered it. The stuff with his mother, the airplane. He just had so many just little nuggets that he could just like tell the story on. But Misty, what stood out to you? Well, I think, you know, as I was listening to it, it's just so interesting. It's kind of like what Malachi said, hearing people talk about their story. these are things that like we study.

I teach a class that we talk about the great migration, the social impact that had for people. But to hear someone, we study the impacts of integration on kids' test scores and in college that's what we did. And I worked for a department that looked at that from a public policy perspective. But then to hear someone who went through it, share it,

it's just a very different animal. And I think it solidifies those experiences. And, you know, what you're talking about, when you think about memories and stuff, you think about the way that people process information is you fit it inside of a category of information you already know. And so we already, we know the history on this stuff. We have the, we've read the books. We've, you know, talked to people. And so we're fitting that into a paradigm based on, we know how these. these things end. We know where they're at right now. We know we've been able to extrapolate ideas

about how how these decisions were made. And this guy was experiencing it firsthand just from a, just experiencing the emotions of it, the, what he could see, what he could, how he felt about his mom being wrapped up real tight going out into the, into the roads. I mean, just to hearing him describe that his mom, how she was dressed that night and how she was. Yeah. And how he couldn't sleep because of what he was thinking about. I just thought it was very meaningful to hear him, him share that story and hear it from not what we already know, not from what the history books say, but hear it firsthand from the sights, the sounds, the experiences of a five-year-old boy. He touched on two things that I think many people would be familiar with, but yeah, to personalize

the story. And number one was the great migration, you know, which are so many factors. I mean, we just touched, we didn't go into it, but like, you know, people leave in the South, you know, which he is, you get the sense that he saw that happening and he didn't want, he didn't want to go. He wanted to stay here and make it

here. And he built a life that did that. The second thing was that he saw and brought out was, which is, I don't know if it's controversial. It feels controversial, but about how desegregation

and integration was difficult on black communities. Like to hear him say that, like he wasn't talking from an academic perspective. Like he wasn't like quoting some author he'd read about in a book. He saw it. He grew up in these communities and watched them disintegrate. What did you think about that?

I mean, as Missy said, like, I knew that. Like, I've researched that and I've seen the data and around how that did have an impact on the number of black teachers, the number of black administrators, number of black leaders and how it really did have a, I mean, it had an impact. So it was interesting to hear somebody's first person perspective about it.

And it, I think it kind of, it makes me think about just like the impact of policy. Yeah. Right? Something that somebody once told me, like when I was going through grad school, is like if you want to ever like be a part of policy banking, the best thing that you can do is like, you know, think of your policy,

but walk 10, 15 years in the future and then walk backwards. And like think about like what is what did your policies adjust? Like what did it touch? Who is it? Who is winning? Who is losing? And it, it makes me think about how, you know,

policies, and when I say policies, I'm just thinking about what are the words, edict, structures, systems that you're built to help govern society. That's what I think about policy. Like, it's messy, right? And you can have like the best intentions. Right. Of, oh, man, I see this injustice. We should do this policy and this will fix it. Yeah. Right? But it's just messy, right? Because, and, and it, I think it just continued to kind of make that a reality for me of like policy even though with the best intentions

you know it might have adverse impacts and it will touch people's lives and I don't have like a solution to that but it's just the reality well do you remember Mr. Earl Jasper who we had on the Mississippi River episode

who I asked him about integration and it's almost like sometimes policy impacts generations differently. Because I mean like generations later, it obviously was better for these people. But maybe that generation that took it right in the face,

I mean, it was like super tough. Well, and I think you've got to kind of clarify a couple things. I think there's integration. And integration was good and necessary. Like there's no doubt about it. People couldn't drink from water fountains in public places. that, you know, American citizens could not drink from public baths, water fountains, the same water fountain, that policy needed to change. But that wasn't the only thing that was changing. And so the implementation of that idea that people should be, people should have equal access to things. I remember, and this has been almost 15 years ago, and I was in Fort Smith, and I was interviewing a woman who lives through that. And I've heard this both ways, because I've talked with a good friend of mine who was busts in, it was, I think Michigan, he was bused to his school.

And he would say being able to be bused to that high quality school, he was a black guy, a black teenager was bused to what had previously been in all-white school. And he says, like made all the difference in the world in his life, having access to that high-quality school. So that, you know, and they're busing is controversial as a policy, but his, he would say that was the difference maker for him. I was talking to this woman in Fort Smith and she was saying, You know, the integration of schools came as a result of the separate but equal doctrine that will have separate schools, but they'll be equal.

And they were not equal. They were not equally funded. They were not equally resourced. And she said they should have just funded us. That was her perspective. Because when they integrated the schools, they didn't, they didn't say, hey, anyone can go to any school. They said the kids at the black school can now come to the white school. And for some people, that would have been a great solution. But one of the unintended consequences that I don't think people realized would happen is that they would lose their black leaders in the school. There wouldn't necessarily be a place for them at the school that kids would get targeted. And are, you know, what's the word I'm looking for, Malachi when they put you in a lower level class? Yeah. I know what you're talking about.

I'm having a blank out. So they wouldn't let those kids in the AP classes. And so there would be kind of like this subtle tracking. That's what it is. So there would be this subtle segregation within the school. So it's tricky because you don't want to say integration was a bad thing. It is wrong to say people can't have access to the same things. But there are unintended consequences.

And there were for those communities and how they. Well, and I think if even aside from understanding even the details, just hearing him say what he said. Like I didn't even need the VO, VO being voiceover. I didn't need to like expound on it. Just like hearing him say that, it just gives you a different perspective. Yeah. Yeah.

And I think that's all, that's what a story like this does. It just gives you a different perspective on it. That's, that's really powerful and just kind of tells itself, tells the story itself. Yeah. Yeah.

Josh, what's that to you? I was just going to say, listening to you guys, after spending time with him, you know, spent a grand total of like three and a half hours with him. The one thing that you pick up on, and I think it's communicated in the podcast, is the fact that, A, there was some incredible generational continuance from his mother and father

to him, because you see it in the fact that even though this man endured significant challenges and in segregation, in discrimination, there's no air of embitterment in him. Like, he's not an bittered man or there's no sense that he's a victim like he in in no way does he he carry this victim mentality he does recognize the challenges that were there but what it did is it filled him with determination and drive and and a sense of like I'm going to be the best that I can be and not let any of this stuff hold me back yeah and that's hard to do that that's incredibly hard to do, but I don't know that he would have had that without the input from his mother and his father. And hearing those stories of even like his dad going to get the loan from the bank

and then going to see the Lindsay boys. And I mean, those things showed him the way that you could navigate life and still be successful. You know, he said it. He said, he said, I didn't spend much time worrying about what people did, wanted me to do or not do. Yeah. Which which was somehow he he was able to like not let the status of the country. Dictate who he's going to be. And I think that would be hard to do, you know. Yeah. It's like he didn't focus on the issues.

He focused on his destination. Yeah. You know? And the guy, I mean, the story he tells is a phenomenal story. I mean, just from going to, I mean, In the back of a wagon. Yeah. To the success that he had.

I mean, and granted, I mean, I'm talking partially about just like career and financial success, which there's a lot of ways to evaluate success, which he would as well. But, I mean, just an incredible story. I wanted to even think about the technology of him riding in a wagon. I mean, the 1940s, four decades after the Model T was born, they're riding around and wagons pulled by mules. And then him being a pilot on an instrument-rated airplane that he could fly at night and fly all over the country.

He bought his airplane in 1972, and it's the airplane he still has today. And he just takes immaculate care of it. That's incredible. Yeah. Yeah. Bear, what stood out to you? I think, first off, I really like this style of Bear Greer's podcast, where you're just like,

it's like an interview with one person just about like their whole life. Nice. And like something like this. Like, you know, like he condensed like 87 years of his life into like these like key points,

these key moments, some like core memories and stuff. And like, you know, like you can get all that in like one hour. So that was the first thing I thought was, you know, just like from like a bear grease podcast perspective.

I like the story. Yeah. Yeah. Nice podcast critique. Yep. Yeah. But then, uh,

I think one of, of the big points that I thought was interesting was like you started out the beginning of the podcast with him talking about how like people would go up to the north and they'd come back with like these new cars yeah and like even from like such a young age like he never viewed the you know like the new cars as success or that was never his like driving force was the material things but then like you see like you know throughout his career he acquired all that stuff anyway just through like kind of like living that life or like the the what's the verse that talks about like the you know like your heart everything flows from the heart it was like his

heart wasn't to uh wasn't after the material things it wasn't after big success but it all kind of came with just that like heart posture that he lived with throughout his whole life yeah like they were just kind of additional to him success was a constant pattern of progression. You know what I mean? It wasn't this. When I get this, that will be success. Like, he just always felt at the next level he needed to keep going. Yeah, it was like the material things were like a byproduct of like his true like goals and progression in his career. So that was the main thing. But yeah, I thought that it was very interesting how well he like remembered his childhood, like how clear those memories were to him and how he described him.

Yeah. Was really interesting to see him at like 87 years old talking about all those things. Yeah. So, yeah, overall, I thought it was a good podcast. He's a good storyteller. Yeah. Like, he knew. I mean, these are stories he's told 100 times, I'm sure.

But, like, it carried a good story. You don't realize it when you're spellbound under the story, but it's Karen a set of values and knowledge that the storyteller is trying to impart. And his stories did that. You know, they were just like, they did it. They were poignant, you know, and that's pretty rare. Yeah. I mean, it's pretty rare to sit down with somebody.

And, you know, I mean, like we said, he was interviewed for like three hours, and you heard about 40 minutes of him talking. And so obviously this doesn't encompass the whole man's life, but it's just kind of what made sense for what we had. I bet there wasn't a person that listened to the podcast that didn't smile when they heard him telling the coon hunting story. Did you, Balacai? He was in tears laughing so hard telling that story.

He's like, it's the scariest night of my life. Did you smile when you heard it, Mayor? Yeah, I did. At that point, I was listening to it while I was working on a bow. I really couldn't even hear what he was saying, but it was just how hard he was laughing was like, And I feel his pain. For real.

I've gone cune hunting. We should be doing this like, where are we going? We want to go over there. In the middle of the night. You know? Like, you serious? I don't hear no dogs anymore. He said, him cooos was falling out of them trees.

Oh, that was so good. That story was like a minute long. Yeah. It was so short. But it was just so funny because he thought it was so funny, you know. I had to include that. But obviously he wasn't like a big hunter, you know. But that was so funny.

Malachi, second fate, anything else stand out to you? Yeah, I was trying to, I was trying to think about some of the other things. You know, I really appreciated his, the story about him going to that, the shareholders. Oh, yeah. And like, Monsanto. You know, like immediately being like faced with resistance. And then something inside of him saying like, talk. Say something.

Say something. And how like that there's a response to him saying something. I don't know. Again, I think that's like a powerful thing because we live in a society where like people might say something like online. Yeah. Right. But like never in a place of where like your words can, you have to stand by your word. You standing up in the shareholders, meaning, you can't shrink back behind like a, you know, a cover name or what, you know what I mean?

You got to like, this is what I believe. And I just appreciated that aspect of him where he recognized this is a moment where I can like say what I see, you know. And you can, and because the CEO responded, you knew there was a level of truth of what he was saying. Right. If he would have stand up and said something that was like outlandish, the CEO would have been like, like sit down. Yeah. But like because he was like on the mark,

I'm like, I see all this, but why aren't you supporting black schools? Yeah. And I just appreciate people who can recognize the moment it's time to say something. Yeah.

And then having the capacity to like implement what they said. You know, I think that's, some people can stand up and say something, but it takes a real guy or a lady to be able to take that vision of what you're saying.

Yeah. And like implement it. inside of everyday life. And I mean, obviously the story is so much more complex than what was told. I mean, it essentially went from the CEO having a two-hour conversation with him to him creating Bell AgTech,

which has been around for like, I think I said, 20 years and just helped all these kids go to school. Fun facts. I know someone. I mean, I'm 90% sure because I was listening when they were talking about that because of how he described it, I thought, I think that's, I know someone

who went to one of these, this ag out outreach program that was in one of the schools over there in the Delta and he ended up going to Pine Bluff graduating. He is a very successful business owner here in Northwest Arkansas now. And if I said the name of the business, everybody would know what it was. Everyone from around here. You think he went to Mr. Ellis's through his program somehow? They would talk about that basically, oh no, he got hooked up with this ag outreach program to help young black kids go to get involved in agriculture. Yeah. Well, it's interesting because he's not actually in an ag field, but because of that, that was kind of a stepping stone for him to get connected to something else. Yeah.

Again, going back to like the components of the story, when Mr. Ellis said, and the CEO stood straight up. Yeah. He was a big tall guy. Yeah, he's a good storyteller. You didn't know what was about to happen. You know, you were just like, is he going to tell him to sit down and shut up? and he says, I want to talk to you. And then you still don't really know like, is he going to get in trouble,

you know, or is he going to? And then the story goes on. That was so good. That was so good. Monsanto being the, now when I hear the name Monsanto, I hear Dr. Newcomb's got a head out.

Yeah, she's so important. She has things. She has to do. When I hear Monsanto, So I think of like big, bad, corporate, what are we doing here? Let's just meet in her. Okay.

I hear big, bad, corporate ag. But anyway, sounds like, I don't know much about them. But that word to me is usually a negative thing. Here it was a positive. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was a great story.

I mean, a man who's made the most of his life, you know, those, those are people. to be to be just honored and emulated, you know. I think people can hear his story and use those characters and qualities and, you know, not have to do things the hard way when you hear someone who's actually already journeyed through difficult times. You can glean things to apply to your own life that keep you from having to do that. And I think this is a great story that fits that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Makes you want to pull stuff from older people.

Absolutely. You know? Absolutely. It just makes you want to sit down and, like, tell me that. Because when you're young, like, when you're a teenager or high school, like, and you're around older family members, like, you don't recognize the value of, like, what they have. Yeah. Like, let me hear about your story. Like, tell me more about when you moved to Alabama and bought a farm.

You know what I mean? Like you don't. And that's any crop of life, any race. That's why it's such a blessing when someone lives into their late 80s and is still really competent and able to really tell a story. Because 20 years, like I think about my grandparents, like, what if I at age 17 had interviewed my grandfather, Lewin Newcomb, about his life? I mean, right now it just seems like such a myth.

It's like, what were we thinking? that we didn't put a video camera in front of this guy and talk to him. But nobody did that kind of stuff. Nope. And so it's, you know, it's like 20 years after something is gone, do you realize that you should have done it? And that's the beauty of these older people that are still really able to talk. Because, I mean, what if a guy like Ellis Bell had only lived into his 70s?

We wouldn't be doing this podcast. Yeah, it's true. Like his long life. Yep. is what made us to be like, oh, this has extreme value. You know, we need to capture this, you know. And that doesn't happen. So, yeah, so we needed to start interviewing people that we don't think are very interesting.

And then maybe 20 years from now, they will be. You know, it's funny. That'll be a new business model. Yeah. Oh, that's our new business model. Let's build a business for 20 years from now by doing all these interviews. Know someone boring? Let us interview.

Yeah. Who do you think you aren't going to care a bit about tomorrow? We want to talk to them. You know, Christy had the forethought right before her grandmother died. She was like 92 to just sit down with her for 30, 45 minutes and say, Grandma, just tell us about your life. And it's really valuable. Oh, did she record it?

Yeah, audio recording. Why isn't this a Bear Grie's podcast? It probably ought to be. Didn't she live in a dirt house with a dirt floor in Southeast Oklahoma? Her first two houses had dirt floors. She helped her husband cut wood. for a living. I mean,

she was an incredible, incredible woman. Yeah. Oma Vaughn. Ohma Vaughn. Yep. Made the best cat head biscuits in southeast Oklahoma? Yep.

Is that right? Absolutely. Mm-hmm. Every single day. Mm-hmm. Next Bear Grees podcast. There you go. Yep.

Malik, how do you think we handled the material? This is always real tricky to me. I almost, when I listened to it, I almost texted to you. Because I thought you hit it on the head when you said, um,

Southerners valued the individual black person, but didn't value or despise the race. And northerners despise the individual but loved the race. I mean, it's, it's true, you know? And I think, I think that was the first time I've ever heard it articulated. I know, I know that that's the reality. I've read the books, you know, I've done all the stuff. and I just think I appreciate like at least talking about it.

I saw something today and I thought it was a good like capture. This post talked about like, you know, engaging in policy discussions and it said like they have two models when they go into a room and try to develop a policy. The first motto is like name the elephant in the room. What's that mean? Well, let's like name the thing that you don't want to talk about. Like, name the biggest. Okay, if you're making a policy. Yeah, if you're making a policy.

Like, let's talk about the elephant in the room. What's the elephant in the room? The second is like embrace the cactus. Like, talk about the things that are a little prickly. Right? And if you're able to do that, you're able to, like, move forward and make a good policy. And I just think race is still an elephant in the room in, like, our country. and I just think being able to engage and talk about the prickly stuff

I think it's something that we all need to do because it's only like when you're when you really have to engage and face are you like does it like really provide you with the mirror of like do I think like that you know what I mean like do I have a little bit of that mentality and you know I appreciate people who can who have a platform and do it in a respectful way. And I just think you did, you know, like even the subtleties of, like, if you hear me out, some of the things you say, like, if you hear me out, if you allow me to be vulnerable with you.

Yeah. If you allow me to say it this way. I was nervous as heck. Josh would tell you, I mean, it's like this fell in our laps in a way. Like I wasn't trying to, like, make a podcast about racing a. America. I mean, it's not even a very good time. I mean, it doesn't sound to me like a great time to even be talking about that.

So it wasn't like this was calculated. Yeah, yeah. Also learned, well, I mean, I knew this, but it wasn't calculated that this is black history by the favorite. Like, this was, this just, we got access to this guy. We went and did it and we made this. And I was nervous as a cat. Yeah.

I mean, this is a hunting podcast. We could talk about killing deer. Yeah. Like, we don't have to tread on, on this kind of stuff. But I love it. Because to me, it's interesting. To me, it's the kind of conversations that just make you think about your own self, I think. And there's a, in journalism, there's a, there's something that I don't understand

that I'm trying to navigate through it. It's like, when you just say something that's true, that's really not your opinion, but it's kind of edgy for instance like when I described how I lived in Arkansas my whole life

just like Mr. Bell we have a common story in that we're both from Arkansas and I lived in a place where there were no black people when I was growing up like literally and here he lived in a place

that was primarily black and you know and when I tell people about Arkansas, I sometimes tell them that, just because it's interesting and it still kind of blows my mind sometimes of how geographically we have still segregated in a way. And that sounds wild even saying that, as risky as it is to talk about this stuff, but it's like, this is just the truth. Yeah. You know? And I mean, it's something that we all know is true. We ought to be

able to at least acknowledge it and talk about it. But I don't know. I mean, I love that we can, we can have these kind of discussions. I think they're beneficial. I think they are, I think they're beneficial to have them and being able to talk about them with your, you know, your friends, with your family, with your kids, with your children. I think that's one of the reasons like, you know, my oldest ghost fishing with Josh. Wait a minute. He doesn't like fishing better than squirrel hunting though, does he?

I don't know. He caught two. He caught two fish. And if you ask, I got him hooked, if you know what I mean. And if you ask him. Now, that I will politic against. I'll be like, hey man, fishing. Losers.

If you ask them, they'd be like, hey, I heard you caught a fish. He'd be like, I caught two. I'll let you know. I caught two. But like I want them, my boys to not, like, be defined by their race, right? I purposely put them in situations that society might tell them like, that might not be your lane, you know what I mean? And it's just a way that it's preparing me to, like, be able to talk about the realities of society in which we live.

because you we go to the golf course and I am probably one of two people black people at the golf course but like it provides a space to talk about that with my boys and with my wife and you know I just think

there's more people that need to have that level of strategic interaction inside of this space and you got a platform to do it so you did talk about Coon Hunt So you checked off. Yeah, you checked off the box. This was a hunting podcast.

Well, his story, you know, we talked about the tagline for the podcast is find relevance and things forgotten. Yep. And then the last line is to tell stories of people who live their lives close to the land. Oh, Mr. Bell. Yep. He did it. No doubt. No doubt.

Well, hey, this has been fun. A lot of fun. Yeah. A lot of fun. Thanks for coming, Malachi. Oh, yeah, I'll be back when that check clears again. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, until next time. Is there anything else we're supposed to tell people before? I think we got it. Bear Newcomb's got two films coming out in the next couple of weeks. On YouTube. That'll be on the media of YouTube. It's me and Bear together. So they're really good.

Bear hunting. Both of them. I'm looking forward to it. It's going to be good. Yeah. And we've been, we've been, by the time you, watch those films, most of those bears would have already been eaten. We had

our camp, we had Mountain goat and bear meat. Burgers. Mountain goat and bear meat. It's great. Yeah. It was great. All right. Keep the wild place is wild because that's where the bears do. Last spring, Clay Newcomb and I collaborated with Jason Phelps at Phelps game calls and building

each of our own favorite turkey diaphragms called prime cuts. Now, I'm going to tell you, I love mine because it's easy to use. I'm not going to go, I'm not going to win a turkey calling contest. It's just not going to happen. But when I run this call, I get the sounds that gobblers are looking for. I have a great turkey hunting track record. If you go listen to real turkeys out in the woods, they're not going to win calling contests, right? That's who I listen to. I can make those sounds

on my cut. I also hunt with Phelps's cut, and I hunt with Clay's cut because they're all three great cuts. Check out Prime Cuts at Phelps gamecalls.com. I think you'll be glad you did. And you'll find out that the Steve Rinella cut is an easy-to-use cut for beginning callers who just want to start making good turkey noises and getting action. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.