Bear Grease - Ep. 308: Render - Turkey Showdown

Episode Date: March 26, 2025

It's Turkey Week at MeatEater and on this Episode of the Bear Grease Render, host Clay Newcomb, Bear Newcomb, and Josh "Landbridge" Spielmaker are joined by two Ozark turkey hunting masters.  Moe Shepherd of Arkansas and Camron Tidwell of Missouri talk tips, tactics, and tales of hours in the woods chasing the illusive meleagris gallopavo - the wild turkey.  The stakes are high as Clay, Moe, Bear, and Camron have a turkey calling contest. If you have comments on the show, send us a note to [e-mail] Connect with Clay and MeatEater Clay on Instagram MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, and Youtube Clips MeatEater Podcast Network on YouTube Shop Bear Grease MerchSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. First Lights fieldware collection is made for the work that happens long before opening day and continues when the season ends. Products built for early mornings, full days and real use. Hard wearing where they need to be versatile where it matters. No shortcuts. Just gear designed for the work that earns the season.

Built to perform, built to last. Check out. First Light's new field. Worldware Gear at firstlight.com. My name is Clay Newcomb, and this is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called the Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual Bear Grease podcast. Presented by FHF Gear, American Made, Purpose Built, Hunting and Fishing Gear that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. Chirp, chirp.

That's good. I love, yeah. My wife gets mad. I'd say I'd probably rather turkey up and breathe air. Anybody that's married and turkey hunts, they've all heard that, I know. That's pretty good, bear. Yeah. Sounds good, bear.

It's not bad for a 19-year-old kid. Welcome to the Bear Greerrish Render. It's Turkey Week. You guys may not have known it, but it's Turkey Week at Meat Eaters. That's what I heard, which means all turkey, all day, all week. Non-stop turkey action. Non-stop tune in for non-stop turkey action. Sound like a 1996 DVD.

The turkeys don't stand a chance. No, we are going to talk about turkeys today, and it's time. Holy cow, down here, or depending on where you're at, we could be up here for some people, but down here for a lot of the country. In Arkansas, man, the red buds are budding. Did you notice that on the way here, Cam? Man, whenever I started on the interstate south, it was just like green. Yeah.

Yeah. It's not as green back home. Yeah, yeah. Well, there are red buds out there. What's happening? And it's the same scenario when you get this south here back towards Riley, towards Mountberg. From there on south, it's even twice as green as it is up this way.

way. I've heard somebody say that for every, I believe it was every 10 miles south you drive, spring comes a day earlier. That's probably about right. I don't know if that's, I don't know if that's, I don't know if that distance is right, but I know you drive 50 miles south of here, and it is, spring is way earlier. And you get, you know, it just keeps amplifying further you go. But it's time. Man, when the, when the red buds start to pop, turkey start to gobble. Have you heard a turkey gobble yet this year, Mo? No, but I haven't been out to listen. It hasn't been out. Yeah. Well, we have with us today. I've got Mo Shepherd, longtime bear grease favorite turkey hunter. He's greasy. He's real greasy. Yeah, he's greasy. We've got Josh Lambridge filmmaker,

Bear John Newcomb here, and Cameron Tidwell. Yes, sir. From Missouri. Yes, sir. Very southern Missouri. You're almost Arkansas. I'm almost Arkansas. Yep. Yep. Grew up in Peeridge. Yeah. Peeridge, Arkansas. Then he left the state. Then I left and I found him for the turkey. So I left four of the turkeys. Yeah. And my wife's from Missouri. The turkey's must have left with you. That's right.

Yeah. So just as a little introduction, Mo and Cammer arch rivals at the annual Black Bear Bonanza Al Hudolph. I'm happy when he doesn't show up. No, they, no, for multiple years, y'all have competed against each other. And there's always this big pool of people that are doing a natural voice al-Hoot, which we have the natural voice al-Hoot competition at the Black Bear Bananza. And it's a blind judging panel.

And they're probably going to have to move me off the panel because I've done it so much. I know who's calling. But there'll be new people up there every year. And it's always the same, it's been the same three. Yeah, except when I wasn't there last year. And the year before, Moe, and, Brian were not in it. Yeah.

And then it was like taking candy from a baby. Yeah. You know what I mean? When I won the second time. Yeah. So you've won that contest. Yes, I have beat Mo and Brian once. Yeah.

But then the second time they were not there. I think the other reason you beat me, though, that year before that is because after it all I was talking Clayney said, I kind of recognized your al-hoop Moe at there. And I was penalizing you. No, no, that's not true. That's funny. But, Mo, you've come in second place like multiple times. Yeah, three times.

Three times. That's pretty consistent. I've won twice and got second or third. What's Brian's last name? Cobb. Brian Cobb. Brian Cobb. And he's won.

He's won two times. I've won twice. And I've come in. Twice three times. And Mo's always a bride's made of a bride. But you've got to be pretty good to place the same time every year. That's true. Consistency.

It's true. Yeah. Well, no, bear's getting a pretty good al-hoop. getting there maybe one day you'll be up there on the stage bear you just cruise down the road

in your truck just hooting just about I'll tell you the most like developmental time in my owl hooting journey was whenever

a bunch of owls flew up to me and they just started hooting in a circle and I just listened to them and then every now and then I would jump in and they would all kind of stop

and look at me I mean they like knew I was there but I was just like replicating them yeah and I would say my eyes Ow hoot like got a lot better. It progressed quite a bit just from us and to real owls.

Oh, 100%. I mean, they're easy to call in. We've had an owl that's actually been coming to our house, Mo. I just stepped out on the porch other night and heard him about 300 yards away. And I owled and came back in the house. And, you know, 15 minutes later, he's in one of these trees like right here. And we had the windows open and you could hear him. and I'd owl at him

and anyway we had a little fun little deal this morning I called it an owl listen for turkeys Really? Yep yep I actually have it on Video on my phone but he started hooting Turkey's goblin and I could hear him getting closer and he I mean he flew he just landed right above me This morning

Were the turkeys answering him They were answered me And then they'd flown down by the time he was amped up They'd stop gobbling How many did you hear this morning? Two. Two. Did they gobble pretty good?

They gobbled really well this morning, actually. It's crisp, and, yeah, they gobbled good today. Yeah. So what's the earliest you've ever turkey hunted, Mo, legally? Legally. Legally turkey hunting. Did you see, he took that seriously. Had to think on that.

Legally. No, have you ever hunted Mississippi, which has a March 15th? I've never hunted Mississippi, but I've hunted in Oklahoma's every year ago. the season opened, it was a 20-something of March, and then the earliest I've ever hunted in Arkansas, it used to open all the time on April 1st, so that's the earliest dates I've ever turkey hunted is April the 1st. And other than youth hunts, now I have, I'll remember back that up years ago when I,

and I still take youth hunts out, but there's been a time or two where the youth hunt was a full week ahead of our season. We opened April 1st, so the youth hunt was, you know, the 20, March. 26, 25th, something, another of my month. March. Yeah. So I have taken youth, youth kids out on that hunt during,

during March. Have you ever hunted Florida? Never hunted Florida. But I have killed Turkey in Mississippi, hunted there one time. It's the only place I've ever hunted where I killed a gobbler. Never heard a gobble. Called him up cold.

No. Seen him. Put the stock on him. Killed him. Yep. Bushwack. Pulled a bear nukemonie. Sure did.

It sure did. Bush, there's, man, I don't have any shame in bushwhacking one if it's just what it takes. I don't know how else you'd have killed one. There was a flock of them, and they wouldn't do nothing. There was literally so like it was a public place,

and you could tell they would flood it for waterfowl hunting, so it was huge levees, and there was one tree out that I could see from the bottom, and that turkey was standing under. and eat that tree. So I just ran, got to the climb where I could see that tree, popped up, and I couldn't see him,

and I looked, and he was right here. And he took off running, and I shot him about 35 yards. Got him. Got him. Got him. Well, Josh, you've, you've never hunted out of state.

Not out of state, no. Yeah. Hey, I got to show you all this. I got to show you all this. Hey, Mo, you see that picture. sure on the back of that? Who is that? Looks like Mr. Clay Nook. Yes, sir. This is the Phelps Prime Cuts diaphragm package. You're probably going to tell me next that one's named after you or something other. I'm choking up over here. Look at that. My name's on that call.

Yeah. Me and Jason Phelps, we really worked on, he sent me. I told him what I wanted in a call. I basically wanted the best of both worlds, which was to me a call that I could purr on, real light purr and kicky run, but also had like some real raspy yelps. And I'm not the best caller in the world. I mean, I'm clearly the best caller here. But where's your shark? We got there on that one chair. No, I don't claim to be the best turkey collar of the world. but I like to call turkeys and I probably used to be a little more serious about it than I am today.

But I wanted one that I could really, let me see how this translates to podcasting. Let's hear some soft pairs now. Now that's the softest I got. There you go. I like it, though. And I like that. It's a brown, a brown call.

I don't, I don't like a call that's, uh, colored like a turkey's head. Um, you know what? Like, yeah,

all these really bright calls. And, and, you know, we make some of them. Uh, and I, I told,

I told Jason that we need to make them dark. Now, they're harder to see if you lose them on the ground. Yeah. But like, if you coffee, spit it out on the ground and you're searching for it. Yeah,

that's Janus Patelus. Yeah. Yeah. Gary Newcomb taught me when I was a kid not to use a blue mouth turkey call because, you know, you're carrying around your mouth. Yeah. Sometimes, I mean, God forbid somebody do this, but it happens where you see color and you assume that it's a turkey head. But anyway, I like the color of this call. It's brown.

Yeah, I see people. I run across people out in the woods, Clay, and I've told them when I've met them, they'll have like a, they'll have on their camo hat and stuff. and I don't know whether they're going to put a whole headnet down, but a lot of them just have, you know, a face wrap around or whatever, and they'll have a hat on like a camo hat, and it'll have a bright red or something other, like a turkey's emblem on it or something other. And I say, hey, man, I wouldn't be wearing that.

Well, why? And then I tell them why. Yeah. Yeah. I've had friends. Have you ever, I know you've never been shot. Have you seen anybody or been, like, in close proximity to somebody being shot? never been in close proximity but I've I've known of a couple people that's been shot or shot

at close and you know not hurt or anything but uh had one time happened to me where a guy was was slipping up on me really was actually crawling like Indian crawling on the ground coming right towards me now did was he hearing a real turkey gobble and you were just in between him or did he yeah he was trying to sneak up on the turkey and he you thought I was a hen but I'm saying when I seen him I just stood up and hollered real loud at him said hey man I'm a hunter you know and he kind of freaked out he stood up

yeah and I didn't get to talk to him he took off the other way so he took off yeah man bear bear's hunting some places that have a lot of pressure and I do yeah yeah and I do too but just in the last year he

he was hunting a lot of places and man that makes me nervous one time I was at our turkey camp, I actually was off hunting, but my, were you there, Josh? You were with, you were with me probably. Yeah, we were lost. And we were off hunting.

And a guy had been shot, and there was a doctor at our camp, John Mesco. And this guy came to our camp because he knew that John Mesco was there, Dr. John Mesko. He had 17 pellets in it. Yeah, he took off his shirt. Pellets out of me. Basically, it was like, hey, what do I need to do? Did John pull out his pocket knife and start plucking? He may have, but he said you could go to the emergency room,

but they're probably not going to do anything. Yeah. Like they would just leave the pellets in there? If they weren't lead. Yeah. Yeah, I think the guy just finally was like, well, okay, I guess I'll just. He wasn't incapacitated or anything. He just had the pellets in him.

Yeah. People get killed every year. An older man had shot him. Saw something white or blue on the back of his shirt and shot at him. Yeah, with these new heavy loads, boy, it seems like it could be more consequential. Yeah, there are people that carry a fan on public land? I don't think that's very smart. Yeah, that's risky.

That's pretty risky. Yeah. Even on private land in some cases, it's risky. You don't always know who's out there. Especially on public land. Kim, what do you think about a fan in Turkey? Just like from, you know, there's this ethical debate about whether it's ethical or not. I mean, I'm not going to a lot. I mean, I've done it before and it's fun, but it ain't my number one way to do it, no way. Do I think it's unethical?

Depends on how bad of a season you're having. But generally, no, don't fan. That's just, I don't know, normally just don't have to. I don't like carrying them around. Don't like messing with the decoys very much. Yeah. I'm in the same boat as Cam. I don't, I've never used a fan on one. And decoys I might use twice in a whole year, and it has to be a special situation. And usually it's like when I'm taking somebody else, like an elderly person or a kid to try to keep a turkey's attention

off of the kid moving or something other like that. Yeah. Yeah, I really don't. But as far as myself, I hardly ever use a decoy. But you're hunting thick woods. You're not hunting a lot of field edges and stuff. No, no, I don't hunt hardly, unless, Like I said, sometimes I take youth on some private land where I have permission to hunt,

but I hardly ever hunt it myself. Yeah. Or like I've got a mother-in-law that she'll be 81 this year. I don't know if she'll get to go this year, but I took her in years past. And it was three or four years ago, I took her to a friend mine's private place and set up some decoys and called in a nice gobbler for it. And I think she was 76 at the time, you know, and she was able to take it. That's awesome.

Yeah. You know, there's the ethical question about Fan and Turkey. What do they call it? They don't call it reaping. Reaping turkeys. Reaping turkeys. Where basically... You crawl up on them.

Yeah, you use a fan. Use a fan and you advance on the turkey, basically. When he's sitting out there in the middle of a bean field or a cornfield or a big pasture or whatever it's strut and you just pull that in front of the ground and crawl until you get in gun or anything and shoot them. Well, there's a lot of people that really get worked up about it. Have you seen this bear? No, really. Well, I think it's illegal in a couple of states.

It is. Yeah, and more states are making it illegal, especially on public land, because it is dangerous. Is it effective? Dude. Yeah. It's effective. Oh, it's highly effective. That's part of the...

I don't know if that's the reason they're making it illegal, but that's part of it. It's like, oh, that's not turkey hunting. Yeah. Anytime people start talking about that kind of stuff with any kind of hunting, I always go, man, you better... You probably live in a glass house if you're not careful,

because, I mean, it's like mojo decoys on duck hunting. I mean like action decoys that like in duck hunting there are no holds barred on what kind of decoys you can use you're trying to just get them right on top of you and it's legal and ethical and fine

and no big deal for the most part and then you know I mean what about putting up blinds and putting out feed TSS. Thompson Long range being able to shoot 75 yards The average turkey gun, well, I don't think that's true,

but the average turkey gun being able to kill a turkey at 50 yards, man. Yeah, with TSS and 3.5 inch 12 gauges or 10 gauges even, you can shoot a turkey way too far. Yeah. Yeah, you know, I mean, I wouldn't want to do that myself. You know, I like to call the turkey in. You know, that's where you beat him whenever he comes to you. I like to see their eyeballs.

Yep. But does it not depend on how bad a turkey season you're having? You know, I'm not going to judge you. Well, see, that's just the thing. I mean, it's like there comes a point when regulations affect harvest. And I think the range of turkey, I mean, the reason we don't use rifles is because we're... Two reasons, safety and limit your range on how far you can shoot turkeys. Yeah, I mean, it's like, is it even spring turkey hunting if you're shooting one at 200 yards?

But I mean, at the same time, everyone's heard the phrase like, 10% of the guys are killing 90% of the turkeys. Yeah. Most of those guys are not using this crutch or whatever you want to call it. You know, I'd say the vast majority aren't fanning or shooting, you know, turkeys at 75 yards. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Like most of those people loved a turkey hunt. That's why they're part of that 10% of people. Yeah. Because they respect it and they love it. I wonder if that's really true, though. I believe it. You think 90% of the turkeys are getting killed by 10% of the people? I mean, it's awfully convenient because that's a good fishing statement too, Mr. Cair.

Well, maybe not, that's, don't take it verbatim. You know what I'm saying. I do 100%. I agree with him, but I think it's more on the, in my opinion, everybody's opinions. But my opinion is it's the same scenario, but I think it's more of like, especially nowadays with all the extra stuff they've got compared to like when I started turkey out in 47, 48 years ago. The stuff to help them like Fanning or... Back in the Stone Age. Back in the Stone Age, Mr. Newcomb.

Well, was using an Adeladdle. But what I was going to say was, I think it's more, in my opinion, a 75%, 25%. I think 25% of the hunters killed the majority of the turkeys. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. No, I know that was your part. Even, like, YouTube, I mean, my grandpa, when he grew up or even Mo, you know, you figured it out yourself, you know. There's all kinds of tips and really good stuff out there. I mean, it's what you guys do.

You know, you put stuff out there to make people to learn. For people to learn, you know. It can move out. I mean, it definitely speeds up the process, in my opinion. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it really is a different game with all the information. And I'm not, it's always an interesting conversation when you talk about reaping a turkey and then all these technological changes that make turkey hunting easier or make any sport easier.

I feel like as long as we're meeting our management goals, it's hard to regulate some of that stuff. But, no, I'm never fan to turkey, but it's not because I wouldn't have done it. I'm usually just hunting in woods where you're not, like, seeing them from 400 yards away. I wouldn't be above it. On blood trails, the stories don't end when the hunt is over.

They just get darker. I've seen something in the road. I instantly thought it was a sleeping bag. And there was a pool of blood. Oh my God, he doesn't have a hit. Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors. Where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce, and the truth gets buried under brush and silence. Indications were he should be right there, but he wasn't.

This season, we're going deeper. From cold case files to whispered suspicions. From remote mountains to frozen backwoods. Each story begins in the wilderness and ends in darkness. Because out here, there are no witnesses, no cameras, just fragments, and the people left behind trying to piece them back together. He's not an honest person. He's incapable of being honest.

Somebody somewhere knows something. I'm Jordan Sillers. Season two of Blood Trails premieres April 16th. Follow now on Apple, Iheart, YouTube, or wherever. you get your podcasts. Bo, what are your turkey plans for this year? Are you going out of state? Are you staying in the state?

I'm going to start my season out with the Arkansas youth hunt. I've got a 10-year-old boy I'm going to take out. It's never been turkey hunting before. I'm going to take him. I don't know. I'll probably just get to take him one of those two days. And then that's on like the 12th or 13th. And then I'm going to out into Oklahoma on the 16th

and hunt the 16th, 17th, and maybe the 18th. If I don't have any luck, the first couple of days, I'm going to stay a third morning in the hunt. And then I'm going to come back for Easter here at home, dear Easter thing at home, and then I'm going to hunt a couple of days opening our season here. So that's my plans right now. Nice.

Good. All on public land. Yeah. I am going to Kentucky to hunt some turkeys with a couple of guests we had on here for the renders from the tour. Tobacco Wars, they were generous enough to invite me to go hunting. And then on the 26th, I'm going to be hunting a Missouri turkey with Mr. Cameron Tedwell.

Man, Josh is getting all the invites now. Ever since, ever since, I've mesmerized them with my mustache. People come in and they meet, they meet Brent and Josh, and Brent and Josh get all the invites and everything. Poor Clay don't get invited for nothing. Nothing. He just has to go to Alaska to hunt goats. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So you're going with Cam. Going to Cam? Go on to Cam. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. Last year, Demi, who got second now contest, I hunted with her and her husband and called in a turkey for her.

That was fun last year. Yeah. I like, you know, that's one of the good things. Is that in Missouri? Yeah. In Missouri. Yeah. Yeah.

That's one of the good things about that event is meeting people. I like to see the same people every time like, you know, you know. Man, could. Well, I'm kind of changing the subject just a little bit. What would be, what do you think, let's go around the, let's go around the room here. What is the epicenter of American turkey hunting in terms of a state? Like if you just had to say this is not the best, not the place you'd go to kill a turkey, but the cultural epicenter.

Like if you just had to pick one state, where would it, where would it be mo on everything i've read or watched or heard over the years uh i would probably say Missouri Missouri do they have uh and i've never hunted it but i'm just saying by people i know if i took mo there'd be no turkeys left that's right he'd kill them all Missouri yeah i i would say Missouri because i've heard of good hunts great hunts in Missouri when I was a little kid before I even started turkey hunting. Yeah. And I think they had some of the biggest harvest in the country.

Yeah. Bear, what do you think? Well, I've only ever hunted in Arkansas, but from what I've heard and what you said on the podcast, you've probably indoctrinated me, but I think Mississippi. Mississippi. Now, why would you think such a crazy thing? Well, all the turkey hunters I know from Mississippi. seemed to be pretty a really good yeah it's like a seems to be like a religion yep yep and that's my only that's my only real exposure to any other state i mean other than i guess Missouri you didn't have

a father that took you all over the country no as a kid banning you didn't he you just made him hunt Arkansas public land that's it that's all you got that's what my dad did too no dad took me to Missouri when i was a senior in high school oh did he and Mississippi I killed a turkey well I wasn't in Mississippi. I hunted in Mississippi. But what about you, Cam? Where is it? So I think there's two different ways to think about it.

Missouri is one of them. You know, that's where a lot of reintroduction happened, came from Missouri. Started out there, didn't it? It started out there, you know. But you hear a lot of people talk about Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia. You know, I mean, I've never hunted Alabama. I've hunted in Mississippi. but down there, you know, along that line, it's a lot of good turkey hunters and people that love it get it.

You know what I mean? Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Josh? Well, just in the, you know, having been the producer of the Bear Grays podcast and interviewing people in Mississippi, everybody talks about turkey hunting. I mean, it's like they deer hunt, they, you know, we got got, got a, you got a bearer. bear program down there, but everybody talks about turkey hunting. And so I feel like, of all the people I've talked to, that's where it seems to be ingrained

in outdoors menace turkey hunters. Yeah. Well, and you're right, Bear, that's what I've always said, is that I feel like Mississippi's the cultural epicenter. That doesn't mean that that's true. I just, I think if you looked at the number of people. that have written turkey books and write about it. And just the way it's kind of handled down there,

I feel like it's, I feel like Mississippi has a run. But I think it would be between Missouri and Mississippi. And that doesn't mean that there's not as good of turkey hunters or people love it just as much in Alabama and Georgia and even in Arkansas. But I would say those two places, Missouri and Mississippi. If I'd pick the second state, I would have said Mississippi

because like I said, before I ever started turkey hunting and got interested in hunting, all you could do is just read books about stuff. And Missouri, and then a lot of stuff from Mississippi, you'd read about hunters from Mississippi. And then it just seemed like those two states were, like you said, they're the, it seemed like the, you hear more or I did when I was growing up way back in the Stone Age. Yeah, the Pleistocene. Moe was once calling up a turkey and a ground sloth walked up on him. Yeah, but I had to shoe it off.

I shoot it off. I didn't want to shoot it, you know, because it was only two, three of them left. Well, Mo, what was the best hunt you had last year? I got to think for a minute. Probably the funnest hunt I had because it was tough last year. Probably the funnest hunt I had didn't involve killing a turkey. I took a friend of mine that never turkey hunting before, and we got it.

out and it was the second day we'd went it was opening the season and uh we'd heard birds the first day but never got any within shotgun range of us and uh second day uh we make a long story short we we got on a bird he answered us and it was you know it wasn't early of morning he's on up in the day and so we walked towards him away and i called again and he answered again and so i got us to spot and i said well let's sit up here and and there was an old, like an old fence or something other. I think it was like an old web wire fence or something other. But it was just pieces and parts of it.

And I looked at that and I seen where I stand. I thought, well, I'm in a thin range of that. And I put my friend about 10 yards in front of me. I said, let's just sit right here. And I backed up there and started calling. It didn't take this few minutes. I seen the gobbler coming. He came in.

He strutted right up to that fence. And I was waiting for my friend to shoot. I couldn't see what he was doing other than he had, you know, the gun up on his knees. He didn't shoot or anything. Finally, the turkey quit strutting. He just kind of ducked under that fence and stepped out on that. And I was up and puffed up again right there and just, you know, strutted out and everything.

I thought, okay, it's time to shoot. It's time to shoot. You know, that putt that turkey at about probably 35 yards of him. And he kept sitting there. And then it turned and started strutting kind of, I think, to our right. And so it was moving past him. And I thought, well, if it gets far enough away from him, if from some reason he didn't shoot,

I think I'm going to go ahead and take the turkey. Well, it stopped and kind of run its head up like they did and looked around. And then it just dropped its head and took off walking straight away like that. And after the hunt was over, I got up and he's down there to where he was sitting. And I said, hey, what happened? He said, it was close enough, wasn't it? Oh, man, he just didn't shoot. He didn't think it was close enough.

But that was a really fun hunt because we're good friends now and stuff. we worked together for a few years and and it was a fun hunt and and he's hooked on turkey hunting now so that that hurts was where you did you how did you handle that did you kind of chuckle about or did you were you kind of upset about it I mean I know you weren't mad at him I just laughed at him so yeah it would have bothered me man it didn't bother me at all it didn't bother me at all watched it walk off yeah I just watched it walk off and everything and I said hey we'll get another and then we got we went then the next morning the last day of our hunt that we was hunting together and got two birds of goblin and they were coming right

to us this comes back to what we talked about the first show I hadn't heard no other calls hadn't even heard no hens or anything that I could tell us and these turkeys were just out of our site kind of across a draw and they were just you know gobble gobble gobble at each other or gobble at us and about that time I heard one of them perk real loud and then boom boom boom like three shots and two guys were running towards them had snuck up in on them there i don't know if they hadn't heard us or what they's doing but anyway they shot at them on the run didn't kill kill the turkeys they turkeys running flew off and that hunt was over so but but that that second day i was telling you on that that that was probably my favorite favorite hunt of the of the year was at there

i called in several young birds last year that i passed up i was just had my mindset because our turkey numbers are low that i was only going to take one of his a big mature I could tell was a four or five-year-old gobbler, and I never called any end like that down here that I could get a shot at. And talking about a turkey going under the fence, this actually happened two years ago, but I was hunting with Lake Pickle and Jordan Blissett

down in Mississippi. And we heard birds at daylight, and we went after them, and we made three different, on the third setup that morning, these birds were kind of just hung up in this little pocket and really wouldn't move much. And we started on one side and set up and called.

And they'd answer us, but never come. So we made a big circle around them. And basically got to the edge of the property. And we called. And, you know, one of them cut us off. And he called and he gobbled again. And we knew they were coming. So we sat down.

And I'm 20 yards from a fence line and a pasture that's not ours. So we're on our land. But you're 20 yards. From the end of your land. We're 20 yards and we're looking into this kind of open field that we can't hunt. Turkeys live on property lines. Yeah. Yeah.

They do. And so as I remember it, Jordan was back behind us and he was doing most of the call. And me and Laker kind of set up, you know, right in range of the turkeys. But I was supposed to be the shooter on this deal. And sure enough, the turkey goes quiet after he cut us off like twice. and we know we feel like he's coming and sure enough I see him coming up the fence line on the other side of the fence.

And so I'm just like fixated on that here's this turkey and I can't shoot it. You know, and he comes to just like perfect gun range but on the other side of the fence and I'm not going to shoot him, like period. And I think that lake clucked or lake scratched the leaves he reached down

and I was fixated on the turkey looking and I just hear Lake behind me and I hear leaves scratching and I go Lake he's looking at us quit moving I thought Lake was like just like moving around

and Lake was knew exactly what he was doing he had his hand down where the turkey couldn't see him and was scratching the leaf I thought he was just like moving around you know and I'm like like quit it quit it well that scratching

turned that turkey and he dips under that fence and comes up on the other side and somehow I my eyes were playing tricks with me still on which side of the fence he was imagine a five-strand barbed wire fence and this turkey just like within three feet of it

and I was like pretty sure I saw him go under it but they just kind of glided under it like water and so the turkey's just like right on top of us and Lake and I go is he on our side of the fence and Lake's like shoot and I go, that's not what I asked you like. I asked you, is the turkey, you know, that's what I'm thinking.

Yeah. And I'm like, is he on our side of the fence? And he goes, he's on our side of the fence. Boom! Shoot, you know, and the turkey's just right there, you know, just right on the fence line. But on our side. And anyway, yeah, that fence about got me. About got me.

Are you hunting with a 20-gauge, turkey hunting with a 20-gauge? Yeah. Mo? I hunt with the 12. Hunt with the 12. 12. 12. Hunting with a 20 last year, but usually with a 12.

Okay. What was your favorite hunt from last year? Opening day last year. I hunt with my best friend, my cousin Tanner, every year. And we've went into this same public piece three years in a row and killed four turkeys out of it. So, I mean, it's pretty good, but it's hard to get to. You've got to float upstream, and you can't get a big boat in there.

And my brother and our other friend went further down. And their story gets very interesting. My brother got bit by a snake, but they killed two turkeys. Wow. Everything's fine. But anyway, back to me and Tanner. The first turkeys that we set up on, you know, they were on the private, but they typically work back into this bottom because we've been there. We know the area.

Boom. Right at daylight. I was like, oh, crap. Somebody shot on the private land. Killed the turkey. First time I've ever heard private turkey land turkey hunters there. It's like, well, all right. So move down the creek bottom.

to the next knob, turkey's goblin. Boom. Another turkey gets killed. Like, all right, start working further down the creek bottom and I call and Tanner said turkey answered you. I said no it didn't. He said call again, he'll hit you again. I called sure enough across the branch turkey gobbled up on a knob. So we start making our way. We cross this dry creek branch. I get to this flat. It's the prettiest like river bottom ever. A lot of little trees, call turkey gobbles again. Like, okay, and we've killed a turkey on this exact spot before. It's a old cut road through here, and it's real thick on this side, and then it opens back up. Well, we get as close as we think we can get to him, and Tanner's supposed to shoot first. So he gets about 60 yards from me and gets set up, I back up, and the whole time we're walking in the leaves, that turkey just, pow, pow. He's hearing you.

He's hearing us in the leaves. Oh, he's close then. And he thinks that, you know, we're a group of hens. I get sat down on this little sweet gum tree. Tanner's up there. I can hear the turkey gobble, and he's working his way back down into the bottom from that knob. Well, I'm watching Tanner, and I'm calling. See, he's just sitting there.

And I see him start bearing down on his gun. So I'm like, this turkey is about to get. smoked. Then I see him about a couple minutes later he eases off the gun and he looks at me and he does this very slightly. He does the he does like the eye thing yeah to me and me and Tanner have hunted together a ton a lot. I think he wants me to call. I think the turkey is drifting off so I just right here to my right and I'm a right-handed guy and I thought That is not what he wanted me to do. He's telling me, you shoot the turkey.

So you didn't even see it. No, because it's too thick. But I can hear the turkey drumming, but sometimes it's hard to gauge where they're at exactly. Yeah. So anyway, I start really looking, and all of a sudden I could see him, and he's slipping through here coming right to me.

Whole way, just drumming. He comes around there. and he gets to about where you are from me, and he's about 10 yards from me, looking here, he goes right in my face, and my gun's sitting like this, and I'm just like... Oh, you didn't have your gun picked up? No, and I can't move.

Right. And this is where experience helps. If I'd have been younger, I'd have just tried to swing, but I knew if I just wait, because he's strutting a lot, eventually that thing will turn. and when he turns away from me I can make a big move so he gets

I mean like five yards from me and he puts and when he puts Tanner p'p boop boop psals at the turkey the turkey calms right back down and he starts strutting and then he turns completely away from me and as soon as he turns away from me

I swing and I have a red dot on my gun and the butt of the gun was on the center of my chest but I got that red dot on his head pulled the trigger and he was done at like 15 yards That was my best time last year Yeah And close

Yeah Last year was a good year It was a little slow Compared to normal But it was good That is a good story Yeah It was a good one

That is a good story Last spring Clay Newcomb and I Collaborated with Jason Phelps At Phelps game calls And building Each of our own favorite turkey diaphragms Called Prime Cuts

Now I'm gonna tell you I love mine Because it's easy to use I'm not going to win a turkey calling contest. It's just not going to happen. But when I run this call, I get the sounds that gobblers are looking for. I have a great turkey hunting track record. If you go listen to real turkeys out in the woods, they're not going to win calling contests, right?

That's who I listen to. I can make those sounds on my cut. I also hunt with Phelps's cut, and I hunt with Clay's cut because they're all three great cuts. Check out Prime Cuts at Felps. Game Calls.com. I think you'll be glad you did, and you'll find out that the Steve Ronella cut is an easy-to-use cut

for beginning callers who just want to start making good turkey noises and getting action. Bear, we know your best story from last year because you told it on the podcast. Yeah, yeah, bushwhack turkey. That one was, I was hunting public land. I'd found some turkeys on public land.

You know, I've scattered before. found some Wait a minute. You can't, you're going to tell this story. Yeah, you better not tell this one because you're going to tell it for the actual podcast. Oh, really?

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, well, I'll tell a different one that happened last year. Okay. I walked about two and a half miles into a spot that I knew was a big bluff and you could hear,

like you can see way off. There was, you know, a big mountain off to the left and there was a big mountain right in front and then I was on kind of like the corner of another mountain. So it made, it was like a river was flowing, and then, you know, creek met into it, mountains on all sides of it. So it created this, like, really big bowl that you could hear really good down into.

But it was just, like, way back there. And so I hiked in there at, like, 11 o'clock at night because we had to do something in town. And so I drove out there at night, hiked back in there, 11 o'clock, stayed the night, and then I woke up that morning, and I al-hooted off this big bluff where you could see real far, you know, expecting to hear a turkey down there in the bottom. And I heard a gobble back behind me about maybe 250 yards.

And so, and I had the self-bow. I forgot to mention that. I had a self-bow, and I was hunting with a decoy. So I had like a backpack with, you know, Dave Smith decoy in it. And so I go back over to where I heard that. gobble and I get about 100 yards from where I thought I heard it. I set out the decoy and I called and two gobblers just light up like just right there and so I mean I was thinking it's perfect I got buried back in a cedar tree and I kind of broke some limbs and had the hen decoy out 10 yards

from me and those goblers were just like gobbling and I only called once and you could just tell they were just out there strutting, and they were just, like, getting upset, but I couldn't, they just wouldn't break. And after a little while, they quit Goblin, and so I just kind of sat there and was going to wait them out. I actually think I texted you. I think you were on the meat eater tour. You're on the live tour.

Oh, yeah. And I texted you, and it was like, I've got some birds out here that I'm waiting out. And I waited for probably a good half hour, and they didn't come. And so I gave just, like, a couple. real soft calls and scratched the leaves and I never heard him again. Okay, so the gobblers were gone and I waited there for about a full hour. Never saw them. So I start walking back kind of towards my truck because it was just a one-day hunt. And I get to this saddle that was just covered in turkey tracks. And I'd seen deer going through there and I've seen bear tracks in there. So it was

just like a good spot for critters to be. And I called a little bit just to see if I could hear anything and I set out the decoy and sat next to a tree and waited there for a while and eventually I was like well I'll take a it was late morning and I was like I'll take a nap and then I walked to the truck because you know it was a long way and so I fell asleep and I don't know how long I was asleep but I woke up because I was hearing something that I thought was like a woodpecker hitting my tree that I was on and that's what I thought whenever I was like half asleep I was like I have no recollection of this story. And so I kind of like wake up and as I start to like kind of come to like, you know, the transition from like sleeping and thinking you hear something to like reality, I realize that's a turkey like right next to me.

What was he doing? It was a hen. And so I like rolled over and there was a hen like three yards from me just clucking, walking, looking and clucking. And I had that decoy out there. and anyway, she just kind of walked on by and I went back to the truck. Never heard the goblers. Never heard the goblers.

Never heard the goblers. But I took a nap and the hen. I thought you were going to say the hen was pecking on your Osage self-bow. Click-click, click, click, click, click. I bet I know right where he was at. You recognize that spot? Yeah, my way he described it. From this and this and this and bear tracks.

And that saddle give it away, though. Shucks. You're spot burned by Mo Shepard. Spot burned. That's a really good turkey spot in there. Camera, what's your, do you have like a favorite story

that you would tell, that like, just if you had to tell one? I have a lot of, I mean, I have turkey hunted. It's always involves my cousin Tanner.

So I grew up turkey hunting. My uncle is like, Tanner's dad is like the best turkey hunter I know. Like whenever, you think of someone who's killed a lot of turkeys. I know what they're doing. Woodsman, think of my uncle.

Well, Brian owns a dairy farm in Missouri, and that's where I cut my teeth and learn to turkey hunt at first. And a dairy farm is not the public land that you guys are talking about. I mean, it was good turkey hunting. And I haven't hunted there in years, you know. Kind of leave it for the kids and, like, my wife and Tanner's wife. Well, me and Tanner, we were driving around the dairy farm one time. And there's a big sycamore tree off the corner of this road.

And it's right before dark. And we've seen some turkeys in that tree. And we said, we're going to kill these turkeys. And I wanted to kill a turkey with my bow. Never killed a turkey with my bow. Don't recommend bow hunting for turkeys. But I wanted to. I was like, I think I was a freshman in college.

So anyway, we get back to the house. We're like, we're going to set up down here. Brian's like, are you sure those were turkeys? She said, yeah. That was turkeys. So, okay. So he calls it a covert night mission. You go way after dark and we set up a blind for my bow, okay?

Got the blind all set up. We're like, man, those turkeys are going to fly down in this bottom and there, so they're going to get it. Well, the next morning has started to get daylight. There were turkey buzzards. They were not turkeys. But happenstance down the creek, there was two turkeys goblin. So we started calling, lo and behold, hear these two Tom's come.

I draw back and I shot its head off with my bow. That was cool. So anyway, we're like high-fiving everything's awesome, you know. We go back to the house. And in Missouri, you used to have to stop hunting at one. So Brian was like, hey, you guys, there's a lot of time left. You and Tanner go try to shoot another one. So we just hung my turkey up in the tree by the house.

We go and we go get set up. up over on the other end of the farm, and we fall asleep for like hours. We wake up because a turkey gobble. I heard a turkey gobble. Wake up, Tanner. There's a turkey. There's no turkey right here. Are y'all back in the blind?

A different spot. No. Different part of the farm. Gotcha. Well, lo and behold, a turkey starts gobbling his absolute brain off. I mean, every breath, I've never heard a turkey gobble this much. Just, ow. Andy Brown would say, and oh, what the goblin he'd done.

And I'm telling you, Tanner, you know, we grew up, you know, it's like, wait a day, we call, he knows where we're at, the turkey's going to come up here. And it was like 1245, and I told Tanner, I said, Tanner, let's go kill that turkey. And he's, finally, he was like, okay, we'll go kill him. So we start off towards this turkey, and we start going down this little path. And when I say he's gobbling everybody, I mean, legitimately. So we know right where he's at. So we keep slipping. And so Tanner's in front of me.

And he goes, I see him. And all of a sudden you start hearing this, youep, beep, beep, beep, like what in the world is it? This bald eagle is dive bombing this Tom.

And that's what that turkey's gobbling out the whole time. Just bow, a bald eagle. Tanner slipped up there and rolled that dude. We got a picture of both of us with them two turkeys. Really? Yep. Yep, his turt.

I'll never forget, the turkey's head was purple. Dang. From being frustrated, I guess. It was full on purple. It was not red, white, and blue. He was just... That bald eagle died bombing him. Yep, that eagle was...

I thought you were about a picture with both of them, talking about the bald eagle and the turkey. No, no, no, no, no. I actually thought the turkey that he shot the head off was going to, like, come back to life. The way he said it, he said, we just hung it right in their tree. Nope.

No, that, trust me, he was not going to... anywhere. Wow. Yeah. I've never heard of a bald eagle. Do you think he was, I mean, he was trying to catch that donkey? That same year, Brian, my uncle Brian, he found a dead gobbler with big talons in it. Oh.

A bald eagle. Yep. Thanks a lot, America. Yeah. Hmm. Hmm. Mo, what's your, what's your best story? And you've told us several on the podcast, but like if you just had to tell one.

because I've only got, I've got one turkey story that I tell. And I've told so many times I'm not going to tell it today, but my lightning bird story. Yeah, the Latin and bird. Sneaking up on the bird and pouring rain and just kind of, you know, Bear was with me the night before. It's like everything was just perfect. Well, what's the best, what's the best turkey story that you, are your favorite? Well, I've got to think through about 200 of them.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I guess, I guess one of them. would involve another story of not killing a turkey, if that makes sense. It was on a youth hunt. I took a kid, a young man on a youth hunt, and we went into a spot. We actually went into a walk-in area where you had to walk in and ask him if he could do it.

Yeah, I can do it. I'm fine, you know. So we ended the walk-in area. Got in there at daylight. Heard a couple of birds, but they didn't respond much. So we walked and we walked and we called and we walked. I think we stopped and eat some snacks and stuff. And it was getting on up late morning, probably 10 or 11 o'clock.

And I said, well, let's go around into this big hollow around here. And there's a couple of short ridges runs off. I said, a lot of times they'll be in there during the middle of the day. And sure enough, we got around there, and I called, and I heard a turkey. Then I heard another one. Then I heard another one. And they were all in the same area. And I said, well, let's get right here on this little point.

I said, you sit right here in front of me. and I didn't want him out of my, he was, he was, he was, he was, I mean, I mean, I mean, he had his hunter's head and all that, but I still want him right there close to me. So he was probably five foot in front of me against the tree and I was right behind him in another tree. And I started working out those birds and then they congregated together like they do sometimes, kind of together, but they were still separate on a couple little ridges. And I never forget they just hushed up for a while.

And I remember him was kind of looking over his shoulder saying, he said, where'd they go? And I said, they're still down there, I bet. I said, this wait, we're going to be patient. I don't remember how long it took, but finally, one of them got fired up again. Then all of a sudden I heard like, you know, it's like three of them in a row. And they were, sounding like they were together then. So I was thinking, well, they made us be big Jakes, you know.

And I thought, well, still a Jake's, you know, legal for a kid here in Arkansas. all. And so I kept working them. And then I seen them come up on the ridge below him down there, below us. And it was three big old longbeards. I mean, dandy turkeys. And they just started working their way. They'd kind of do like they do. They'd kind of pop at each other.

You know, pop up to them. I know everybody's turkey and see them. They'll pop at each other. And they'll go back to strutting. Oh, yeah. And it took a long time. Finally, they got up there. And I was watching him.

He got his gun up on his knees and stuff. And they got close. They was probably 30, 35 yards of it. us and they was right in front of him i thought he's got to have his gun right on one of them and i waited until they kind of separated a little bit and i thought he's sure gonna kill one of them you know and i just what i call i don't call it a putter or purr or whatever i done like three fast purse to make them raise their heads up and i'd done that and they raised their heads up and i was watching him this whole time and i was ready for him to just go like that and shoot well his gun

was right there like this and when i went pp-p-purp like that they raised their heads and i think they all three gobbled, just in unison, you know. And boom, he shot. He didn't even put his head down. He's gun, he said, he put him over the top of the turkeys. And they took off a flying and running and took out of there, and I sat there for a little bit, and I eased down there to him. I said, I guess you didn't get one of them, did you?

He said, no, he said, I don't know how I missed. I said, which one was you aiming at? And he sat there a little bit, he said, I think the one in the middle. I said, where was you aiming at? And he said, I think. I never did look down my sight. And you said, I think you're right. Yeah, and we laughed about it, but it was a good lesson for him.

And then I took him on hunts after that, and he killed turkeys and stuff. So that was kind of a lesson for him, too. You talked about them turkeys, gobbling like that. Me and Tanner went to Nebraska one time and got permission from this farmer. He said there was turkeys in this creek bottom right before dark. And, you know, we talked about it earlier, Al Houten, man. I am just hooting my brains off at the top of this rigid. Oh!

Nothing. Turns out, barred owls don't live in Nebraska. I would have thought that a turkey would gobble at that, but, man, I was hooting my brains out. They would not answer me owl hooting. So how'd you get them to gobble? That coyote howled at them. It was just his owl hootins. That's why they wouldn't gobble.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad Mo's not a judge. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But man, I've never heard so. I mean, it was just right on top of each other.

It's blah, blah, blah, blah. And they've kind of gobble weird out there. Yeah. Then Rio, Marion hybrids. Yeah. All right. I want, I want y'all to give me your best tip. So there's a lot of podcasts that you'd go and you'd get hunting tips.

And I listen to some of those. and I like hunting tips, so we don't usually do a lot of, like, how-to stuff on here. But, Cam, what would you,

what would you, if you were just given a turkey hunter, just a nugget of wisdom, what would you say to them? And don't give me this generic stuff, like, just be patient and...

Well, I'll tell you this. I got two things. Okay. Number one is boot leather equals beards. Okay. You got to walk. You got to go. If you don't go, you're not going to get them.

That's the only way you learn is to hunt a lot of turkeys. Yep. Number two is pattern your gun. If you don't pattern your shotgun, I mean, my buddy, Dusty, his dad, he missed like four turkeys in a row. So what is wrong with you? We shot his gun, and it was like, oh, yeah, you can't hit anything. What was it doing? His choke, he was shooting like a modified choke, and it was just too open.

two open and at 40 yards he just you know wouldn't didn't have enough shot out there yeah yep yep but that's my two tips yeah what distance do you pattern your gun at 35 yards is where i patterned my gun i feel like that gives me the best uh room for i don't know like i like a pretty uniform medium medium distance yeah but i like a pretty uniform you know pattern i shoot a red dot a lot of times so it's pretty easy to side it in, and I like, you know, I don't know. Some people like to shoot at the neck. I like to put that dot right on the white cap of that turkey's head. Right on.

And so it's like I'm splitting the difference where some of the pattern goes high, some of the pattern goes low, but the dead center goes right where that turkey's head is. Mm. Yeah. Okay. I agree with you on that. That's what I do is 35 yards. Yep.

Or anybody that I help pattern their shotgun, I want them to shoot at 35 yards. Yep. Yep. What's your tip, Mo? My main tip would probably be go when you can and do not go because of the weather. Do not not go because of the weather. Okay. Because every time you're out there, that may be the time you get your turkey.

You know, whether it's raining, whether the wind's blowing, no matter what's going on, you can get frustrated when you hunt in different kinds of weather. But believe me, if I had not hunting because of weather, because of weather, conditions. They'd be a lot less turkey beards at my house. Yeah. And it keeps people out of the woods. Yeah, I mean, a lot of times people don't go when it's so that's a good point there too.

And then the other thing I agree with Cam on that is, is don't be afraid, especially if you're hunting public land. You know, when you're limited private land, like I said, I don't hardly ever hunt it. I'll take kids on it sometimes and stuff. But when you're on public land, just make plans to wear them boot soles out and just keep traveling, keep going. Yep. and one other tip I will say is whether you're on private land or whatever,

when you go into place so many people I've hunted with or take with me, we'll go into a place, hunt our way all the way into place, end up place, into place. And then I say, well, we ain't hurt anything. Well, let's go back to the truck or let's go back to where we're at. I said, well, let's go back. But I said, let's hunt the same way we came in here. Yep. I don't know how many turkeys I've killed come right to the exact same area I went in on.

and a turkey maybe heard you called two hours ago. It came in there later or had hens with him and wasn't interested at the time. Yep, that's a good tip. And in my opinion, that's what a lot of people make a mistake.

They go into a place hooting or doing some calling or anything. They just haul butt out of there and go right back to where and then go somewhere else. Like I said, I've killed a bunch of turkeys on my trips out before I went. That's a great tip. That's a great tip. I'll tell you what my,

I have two tips. The first is a, me is a is go with low or cam or bear no it is uh it's partially the bootlet of thing but half a turkey hunting is just finding the turkey that you can call in yes so you know you might be here in a turkey gobble's head off and he won't work he won't work he won't come he shuts up he goes the other way and you know you might mess around with that turkey for forever and depending upon how much land you've got to hunt if you're on public and or whatever half the time it's it's it's It's knowing when to just keep moving because you might find one that's real hard to work,

but over two ridges from there you call and there's one 80 yards away that's just begging to come in. So, you know, just finding, because there's some turkeys that you're just not going to kill that day. 100%. You know, you're just probably not going to kill him that day. And knowing when that turkey is that turkey is a hard one, and you might come back the next day and kill him just fine. My second tip, and this is more of a, I mean, I think for like a new hunter that's just trying to understand turkey hunting is that it's all about positioning and location. And so if you hear a turkey gobble and he'll answer you, but he won't come, what you got to do is reposition yourself in another location and call at him there and see if he'll come.

and you know a lot of times you might reposition two or three times and finally you get in a spot and a little time has gone by and I mean he just comes right in but it's after you've messed with him so I mean it's like if you were just explaining turkey hunting to someone you would say the turkey's goblin and making noise and you know where he's at but he won't come well go to point B and try to call him there go to point C and I mean you know that's obviously with a turkey that's that's being vocal, but probably got hens. Or sometimes they don't have hens, and sometimes I'm surprised that the lone goblers

that either are hunted or for whatever reason just don't storm in like they're supposed to. But finally you get the right setup and bam. Well, they're not supposed to storm in. In the natural world, the hens come to them. Right. That's what happened most time. But they're in competition for those hens.

So they may sit, I think that's why they sit there in a spot like a place they like to stroke. on a little flat or a glade or a saddle or wherever they'll get in that spot after they fly down and they'll sit there and gobble how many times have you done that and they'll gobble and gobble and never come in and then eventually they come in i think that's why they're sitting there they're waiting for that hand that they heard fly down to come to them on blood trails the stories don't end when the hunt is over they just get darker i've seen something in the road i instantly thought it was a sleeping day and there was a full of blood oh my god he doesn't have a head

Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors, where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce, and the truth gets buried under brush and silence. Indications were he should be right there, but he wasn't. This season, we're going deeper, from cold case files to whispered suspicions, from remote mountains to frozen backwoods. Each story begins in the wilderness and ends in darkness. because out here there are no witnesses, no cameras, just fragments and the people left behind trying to piece them back together. He's not an honest person. He's incapable of being honest. Somebody somewhere knows something. I'm Jordan Sillers.

Season 2 of Blood Trails premieres April 16th. Follow now on Apple, Iheart, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Another thing, if you hear Turkey's Goblin in one spot a lot, And they shut up and you're sitting there and you're trying to play the patient game. And you're just sitting there. Most guys, after a while, say, I want to go know where that turkey was. And you'll walk up there and then you'll hear a... And away he goes.

They'll fly off. They didn't go anywhere. What's it... You know, I've heard tons of people say, like, what's a turkey got to do? Survive, period. I mean, they're just chilling. They're doing their thing, you know? And like you said, you can reposition.

A lot of turkey hunting and killing a turkey is once that turkey gets interested enough, he becomes very vulnerable. And it don't matter what. I like the way he said that. He becomes very vulnerable. Yeah. It don't. It don't matter. In my opinion, every turkey has his day.

It don't matter how hunted they are. If you can, eventually he's going to say, yeah, I'll go see. what she looks like. You know what I mean? I don't know. That's just my opinion. Mo might think something different, but that's my opinion. I kind of agree on that.

And another thing is when a turkey gets like you're saying, when he sits there and sits there and he shuts up, a lot of times I'll be patient. I'll wait. But then if he don't never open back up again, say this is 8 o'clock in the morning. Say, you know, it got daylight at 6.30 or 7 at 8 o'clock. I'm not hurting him anymore except right after daylight when he flew down. If I don't get him to respond to him, a lot of times what I'll do, I'll get up from that spot and I'll leave. I'll go around the mountain somewhere else if I've got the opportunity to see if I can get a gobbler fired up.

I usually wait anywhere from two to three hours. Then I'll go back to that exact spot where I was sitting before. And I'll sit down and I'll just make a few soft calls. And I've killed a bunch of big tombs. You'd do that. Still wouldn't gobble. The next thing you hear is, they'd be right on you.

So he was hearing you call early but had hens. Or we just didn't want to move. Yep. And then like where he was. Like where he was staying. That's what I'm saying. Especially I think them four and five year old Tom's got places that they don't want to do nothing but just strut there. Yeah.

And I've killed him that has gobbled when I've made those soft calls. Yeah. Soft calling kills a lot of turkeys. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that, yeah, soft calling kills turkeys. And like I said, I've killed a lot of midday gobblers, midday, mid-afternoon that I messed with that morning.

And they would never respond. They'd gobble, but they would never come towards you or anything and go back to them places later in the day, whether it's at 9 o'clock, 11 o'clock, to an afternoon, whatever, you've got time to do it. But that's why when I go turkey hunting, turkeys don't have no time frame. They got all day. And the next day, and the next day, we're on a time frame. I've got to go back to work tomorrow, so I've got to get this turkey called in today. Yeah.

So I think of that. And I also think of, he's talking about tips, so I'm going to spit this one out there. When I first hear a turkey gobble, and if he's close enough, I'm going to sit up before I ever sit down. I look all around and I think, if I was a turkey, where would I want to come into and strut where this hen can see me? And that's where I set up facing.

And about half time they come around behind you or something other, but it pays awful lot to think that way, I think. Think what you think that turkey might want to do because they don't like really thick stuff, and they'll make you drive you crazy. They'll come through briars and stuff you can't even walk through sometimes. But the majority of the time, I think of that.

Last year I learned a lot on one gobbler, and it was because the woods were open, and I kind of got lucky and saw it, and here's what happened. I'd hunted all day. It was in Tennessee. It was opening day of Tennessee. And it hunted.

It'd been on birds that morning, but never could get them in. And that afternoon, at 4.30 in the afternoon, I was on the point of this ridge and called at 4.30 in the afternoon, one gobbled. And, you know, within 250 yards. And I was like, that's encouraging.

I thought maybe you just shot gobbled at the hen and maybe wasn't that interested in coming. Sit there for probably a minute and kind of figured to where I'd sit if he answered again. But still wasn't that worried about it. I didn't really think he was coming in. I call and, you know, he's 100 yards closer. And I say, man, I better sit down.

I sit down on the point of this ridge And it's just probably the prettiest spot of ever killed a turkey Because the rid this point fell off and this big bottom And you could just see for a long ways in some big open woods And I called again So he's got with three times now And I'm set up and directly I see him And he's about 100 yards

but I can see him through the woods, and he completely shuts up at 100 yards, but I can see him. If I hadn't been able to see him, it's possible in the afternoon I would have got, yeah, I would have lost interest or just thought it wouldn't be going to happen. He absolutely quit goblin.

He gobbled three times, but I saw him, and he stayed out there and strutted at 100 yards for, I'm going to say 20 minutes and never said a word. and I even got to where I would I had a decoy set out there and just right in front like five feet in front of me you know I really wasn't planning on using it

but I just kind of stuck in the ground and he strutted strutted strutted strutted strutted I'd call he wouldn't answer and he was strutting around to where he was going to get out of sight of me and kind of get in behind me and basically after about

20 minutes of strutton when I felt like he was about to get away from me. I just felt like if he came from behind me or if he just circled around, he was going to get away from me. I started calling real aggressive. And he broke and just came in on a string after 20 minutes of being completely silent.

But anyway, I think if I hadn't seen that turkey, I probably wouldn't have killed it because I would have thought he was... He wasn't interesting he was gone on. Or I would have tried to move in. I would have been like, oh man he's down there 200 yards if we just get 60 yards closer and I would have bumped him because he was just right there yeah but uh but he strutted strutted strut his strutters strutte his

trutted and then I got real aggressive with him just kind of a last ditch effort and man he just broke strut and just came right to me and I killed him on that first day at 430 yeah that was afternoon my whole life I had to stop hunting at one in Missouri you know yep traveling to turkey hunt I've Kill turkeys in like eight states, I think. The afternoons where you can hunt all day, I've killed more turkeys out of state in the afternoon than I have the morning. Really?

Yes, because they've done their dance, you know. The girls have left. And I don't know. I just find more alone turkeys in the afternoon. Probably not as vocal. No, but whenever they are vocal, you're... You kill them. Man, yeah.

And probably 80% of turkey. hunters are out of the woods in the afternoon. 100% yeah. It's funny, the one turkey I killed in Mississippi, the first day, Tanner and I hunted all day on this public plan. We got back to the hotel we were staying at, and earlier that morning we had met these two guys from Arkansas who said, yeah, we hunt here every year, and we got back to the hotel, and one guy was in the hot tub.

He was out there sitting there. Hotel 6 hot tub. Not advisable? No, no, don't. You don't want to get some sort of disease. But anyway, we got back to the room and he was standing outside his door. And he said, where are you boys been? And Tanner said, Tanner said, well, we hunted.

He said, you hunted all day? I said, yeah, that's the only way you can. I don't know. That's the only way I've dumbed enough to get them. You just got to keep going. If you keep going, you're more likely to get them, you know. Yeah, yeah. And they were like, man.

We've been back at the hotel since 10 o'clock. He said, you hunt it all day? Well, you know, you don't realize what you've got until you don't have it. I figure Missouri turkey hunters going out of state, been able to hunt all day? You're like, this is awesome. Oh, man, yeah, 100%. Yeah, man, I like a turkey hunt when you are, that's all you're doing. I enjoy a local turkey hunt where you're just going out for a couple hours, which

I know you've done a lot of, Mo, just going out close to the house a couple hours. Yeah, when you ain't got much time, but that's still, like I said, go, go when you can go. But it's also, I love it when you are somewhere and you're there for three or four days and you're there to turkey hunt and you can hunt all day. And, yeah, if you can just not need that validation of a gobble every 10 minutes, you can kill them in the afternoon. Well, in Mississippi, we didn't hear any gobbles, nothing. I mean, it was just, I think the day. I killed the turkey. We walked 11 miles. Yeah. Wow.

I mean, just, but hey, we killed them. I give you another tip on public land. No, we don't want to give them too many tips. They'll start killing our turkeys. Ah, most of them don't hunt that hard. But like you're hunting on public lands somewhere and say you go into a spot of a morning, you're driving down the roads, and course there's side roads and gated roads on public land everywhere, where, you know, you see vehicles parked with people hunting, you know,

that got there earlier or whatever. And something I've done my whole life is if I go in a place three or four days and I see a vehicle there, the same vehicle three or four days, I will go back sometime, another later in the season or whatever where these people were hunting. If there's no vehicle there, I'm going to go in there because they didn't kill all the turkeys in there. They're hunting in there every day for a reason.

Because there's a turkey there. Let them do your scouting for you, some. Don't go in on somebody. Yeah, I'm with you. But I've killed a lot of turkeys that way by seeing where other vehicles were parked and then not even ever scattered in there and going there. And I've killed a lot of turkeys doing that. And especially going in there midday afternoon hunting like Cam's talking about in them places.

And I've even done that where I went to another spot and come back in this vehicle, be gone at 10 or 11 o'clock in the morning. I was going to go somewhere. If they didn't kill a turkey in here or if there's more than one turkey in here, I'm going to see what's going on. going on and I'll go in that place and hunt and then I'm scouting it while I'm hunting too so I know it better.

Especially when you're traveling somewhere on public land that you've never been before. Yeah. I've done that a lot over the years. Yeah. When you're out of state going and it's like, you know, you don't have permission anywhere. You're just hunting the public.

Like he said, seeing where the cars are tells you a lot of information. Yeah. Number one, you could say, like he said, there's turkeys here. you'd also say ah let's go to another place find some of i don't know how many times

just i mean you name the place kansas i've shot a lot of turkeys in kansas you'll see cars parked at these walk-in hunt areas you'll drive and drive for hours before you used to be able to hunt wherever now you got to draw a specific zone in kansas right i mean not being afraid to just take off and go in any direction wherever yep so many times

killed turkeys doing that just getting away from the people yep yep well mo you just confirmed what gary newcom always taught me and if you were following gary newcomb's truck and you're trying to do that you would have been gar-hoed because gary newcomb would park he would go out of his way to never park anywhere near where he was hunting it's true i mean like paranoia like uh never park anywhere near where you're hunting park somewhere way off or have like a secret trail that you can pull off the road and like you know cover your truck with brush yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah well hey this has been awesome yeah so this is uh turkey week at meat eater a bunch of stuff for sale for sure tree line turkey vest oh we i got to show him that turkey vest bear go get that turkey

vest it's hanging over there um first light has a new turkey vest and uh these phelps calls. There's going to be lots of turkey stuff for sale. But this is my new turkey vest. Old cumbersome there. Yep. Treeline turkey vest, man. It's a it's kind of a slim down version of these big, you know, back in the day, turkey vests were huge and just were like big bulky things. This is like trimmed down. But it's also got a backpack where he You can carry some water or snacks or a jacket. I mean, you know, like, you know, you got a pretty good size backpack back there. If you're Brent Reed, put some TP in there.

Yep, that's right. But you could also stuff a bird right there in the back or stuff a decoy. You wouldn't carry around very many of them. But anyway, that's first light's new treeline turkey vest and specter. It's got the little adjustable seed on it. And I love that thing. So, you may. And it's going to be a good season.

Appreciate it, guys. Karen, thanks a ton for coming up, man. Thanks for inviting me. Yeah. Do you think Al Hu would translate on a podcast? I think it's worth a try. What about turkey calls? Oh, yeah.

We're going to have a little calling contest here. I don't know how we're going to decide who's the best. Let Josh be the judge. Okay. And he'll tell us what he wants us to do. Your fate is in my hands. Well, you want like a scenario like to do at the Grand Nationals? Okay, we'll start with Cam.

Oh, you want me to do it? Okay. What scenario you want me to do? Waking up on the limb. Yeah, let's do that. Let's do that. Okay, wait. Hit on the limb.

Hand on the limb. Nice. Nice. That was nice. A little fly down. Okay, you understand the scenario, right? I mean, I'm not a super experienced tree color, so I'm not super familiar with that. Is that just like a tree yelp to start?

You tree yelp and then he flies down. Like what it would sound like if a hen was roosted over you and the sun started to come up and she's waking up and wanted to let the world knows past the old big Tom over there where she's at. Like real soft yelps and then some big clubs. You tell me you're the artist. This is your canvas, brother. Okay. Yeah.

Great. I need something here, guys. Hold on just a second. Come on, graybeard nuke him. He's going to get a wing, ain't he? Come on, graybeard nuke him. Yep. It's getting gray.

Not bad. The multimedia experience. Okay. All right, Mo. You're up. You want my hat? Nah. You don't need it.

He doesn't need it. If you've got to beat your hat on, you'd make them think of your turkey flying down. That was good. Well done, gentlemen. Beautiful. I'm going to give that win. Drum roll. Wait.

Do you have a drum roll here? I thought we were going to do multiple scenarios. I can't remember if I had a drum. Multiple scenarios. I thought it was. Okay. One more scenario. Okay.

This is like a hot Tom coming in. A hot Tom? A hand pulling in a hot Tom. What's a good scenario? Yeah, what's a good scenario? Fall gobbler flock. Fall gobbler flock. Get into a fight.

They break up and they re-congregate. This is grand national stuff. Have you ever hunted into fall, Clay? Yeah. Okay. Wow. So was that supposed to be a gobbler yelp? Yeah, that's a group of gobbler.

That's a group of goblers, yes. Wow. They get into a fight. That was good. And they kind of, in the fall, you'll hear them do that Kiki run. Yeah. That's like a lost turkey. And you'll also hear that when they're breaking up in the spring to get their pecking order figured out.

Yeah. Yes, they will. That, man, I've heard that a lot. You'll hear it a lot more? All that, I'm not sure I'm going to be much of a competition here. I mean, all that I've done is Kiki Rundum. Oh, yeah. When you broke them up.

Back when we had a fall season, I never killed one, but boy, I sure missed a couple. Let me hear your Kiki Run. That's good. Yeah. You want in on this one, fair? I can't do a Kiki Run with this, Cole. Let me hear it the best you got. Here, you ought to try that Clay Newcomb Signature Series.

You got the Clay Newcomb Signature Series on you? I got a brand new package, which we can't open. Shucks. The winner gets this. Oh. I'm going to show that my wife when I get home. Okay. Let me hear it.

Mo, let me hear you Kiki. No, I'm going to, I'm going to get this to Mo. He, uh, oh, so you just want to Kiki run. Yeah, just going to do the gobbler thing. So I need a different call. You can do that too. I'm enjoying this. I like it.

It's too hard. Can you gobble the diaphragm? Eh. Oh, dang. What did you do? What? I put it in front of your mouth. Yeah.

What kind of calls that? This is my all-time favorite call. Well, I don't know if, can I talk about it on this podcast? Sure. What is it? It's a Rolling Thunder Kevin Taylor collection, KT4. Nice. So what did you do?

You put it up? I put it on my mouth and I kind of like. You blowing in or sucking in? Be blown out or sucking in. Now, what are you doing? Like, he's just puffing air across it there. Yeah. I can't do it, but I'm going to.

I got a nephew that can do that. I can't do it. I'm sorry. I can't do it. I mean, and a lot of guys, they'll like... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do that, but I think it sounds better the other way. That sounds good.

Can you gobble with one, Mo? Not very good. Bear, can you gobble one? Not with one of these. Yeah. You really want to sound like a Jake when you're gobbling. 100%. Yeah.

Weaker bird. Weaker bird. So I was going to try to see if I can get that. I ain't never tried this call. What he was doing earlier with? It's a gobre scenario. Yeah. Oh, that sounds good.

It's hard to pick a winner, I bet, Josh. It is hard to pick a winner. Everybody's a winner. Everybody gets a participant. Hey, for real. Would you try these out if I gave you pack up? 100%. Yeah.

I got one for you. Well, I'll give, Mo, I want you to have that. You can tell me what you think does. I'll send you a picture. with this all in my hand. I've got another pack I'll give you I'll send you I'll send you prisoner

with one but I'm not going to use that clay nuke him one and it don't look very good so well did you have a winner or no I don't want to steal the winner but it feels like

it's kind of tough no offense second place but that was pretty good Cameron had a good one there all right yeah he was really good where's our applause on there

it's the lower right hand button in it oh no no no hold on hold on hold on hold on hold on hold on Huh. Good job, Cam. Congratulations.

Yes. Congratulations. The crowd just has gone wild. The Bear Greece Grand National Champion. Yeah. If I was voting on him against me, I'd vote to him as a winner

and mainly because he was really good on that gobbler pecking order stuff. I mean, he's done it perfect. Yeah, yeah. Well, thanks, guys. Yeah. Good luck this season. Keep the wild places wild because that's where the bear's there.

Last spring, Clay Newcomb and I collaborated with Jason Phelps at Phelps game calls and building each of our own favorite turkey diaphragms called prime cuts. Now, I'm going to tell you, I love mine because it's easy to use. I'm not going to go, I'm not going to win a turkey calling contest. It's just not going to happen. But when I run this call, I get the sounds that gobblers are looking for. I have a great turkey hunting track record. If you go listen to real turkeys out in the woods, they're not going to win calling contests, right?

That's who I listen to. I can make those sounds on my cut. I also hunt with Phelps's cut, and I hunt with Clay's cut because they're all three great cuts. Check out Prime Cuts at Phelpsgamecauls.com. I think you'll be glad you did, and you'll find out that the Steve Rinella cut is an easy-to-use cut for beginning callers

who just want to start making good turkey noises and getting action. This is an I-Heart podcast, Guaranteed Human. Thank you.