Bear Grease - Ep. 398: Render - Behind the Scenes with Blood Trails

Episode Date: December 10, 2025

On this episode Clay is joined by the host of MeatEater’s new Blood Trails podcast, Jordan Sillars to go behind the scenes and learn how he finds his stories and creates the true-crime show. The team then discusses the most recent Bear Grease episode about the unusual death of Oklahoma wildlife officer, Bucky Garrison. If you have comments on the show, send us a note to [e-mail] Connect with Clay and MeatEater Clay on Instagram MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, and Youtube Clips MeatEater Podcast Network on YouTube Shop Bear Grease MerchSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. First Lights fieldware collection is made for the work that happens long before opening day and continues when the season ends. Products built for early mornings, full days and real use. Hard wearing where they need to be versatile where it matters. No shortcuts. Just gear designed for the work that earns the season.

Built to perform, built to last. Check out. First Light's new field. Worldware Gear at firstlight.com. My name is Clay Newcomb, and this is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called the Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual Bear Grease podcast. Presented by FHF Gear, American made, purpose-built, hunting and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. So yesterday I was checking my Moultry app as I'm prone to do in the evenings. Yep.

Primetime. Mm-hmm. And I see a gilly suited figure come across my trail camera. And it's bear. And he leans in front of the camera with this arrow like this. And there's a rabbit hanging down from his arrow. He's got his self-bow. And it was basically like sometimes.

bear has a challenge in communicating with his father, especially when he's in the field. When he's in the field, I'm constantly like, where are you? Give me updates. Like, what do you see? Like, I need play by play. Like, I even say, I want to know every blue jay that you see.

You know, like, give me the details. And I get, like, two updates a day, like, if he's a long ways away. So I felt like this was like a picture's worth a thousand words. Yeah. It was like, what more do you need to know? That's all you needed to see. Hey, you know what? So we're here with Jordan Sillers of Meat Eater.

Yes. Of the new podcast, blood trails on meat eater. That's right. Done really well. We're going to talk all about it. But me and Bear have a scenario that the world knows nothing about. Okay. That we need some input on.

Okay. All right. Bear had a trail camera out on public land over here. Mm-hmm. And left it out maybe a little bit too long during gun season. which I would have advised them against doing, somebody stole it. Oh, yeah.

And they did not turn the video off. Oh, really? Yeah, and I'm a little nervous to share all the details, but I think I can't see any reason why I wouldn't. It was a kid. Oh. Like maybe like a 12-year-old kid. Oh.

And this, I mean, it might as well, like, I mean, it happened in northwest Arkansas and public land. 12-year-old kid, like, we have the full video of him, like, taking the camera off the tree. And then the thing continues to play, like take video in the truck on the way home, takes it in his house, sets it on a counter facing outward. and basically we get videos of this family for until the camera ran out of batteries. No kidding. I called the sheriff the first day. Yeah.

And I wasn't that worried about the trail camera. Right. I wasn't even, and he was like, well, do you want to press charges on these people? And I was like, well, no, probably not. I mean, I didn't want to make a big deal about it. I said, I do want y'all to know that my trail camera that's in their house taking videos of their family has nothing.

to do with me. They stole my trail camera. Yeah, you're not spying on them for some reason. Yeah. Yeah. And what's a man to do in that situation, Jordan, what would you do? What would you have done? I tried to shut off the camera, but I couldn't figure

out how to actually shut the camera down. But anyway, what would you do? Yeah, I mean, that's obviously not y'all's fault at all. And I agree with you, it's not so much the camera is not so important. If I was, you know, that kid's parent, I would want to know, hey, this is what your kid's doing. But also, I think a lot of times stuff like that can sometimes be just the tip of the iceberg.

Right. Right. And so it's good to inform law enforcement. You don't want to press charges. You don't want to get these people in trouble for that specific thing. But you want to say, hey, because maybe someone in that house. household is being investigated for something else. And law enforcement is going to know that.

And so that's going to be something that, you know, they're going to want to be in the loop on. Yeah. So I think you did the right thing. Well, it's also hard to imagine how the parents couldn't have been in on it because this kid went from hunting into a vehicle that was driven home. And he's got the camera just like bouncing around in the truck. Yeah. Right. Well, that's why I say, I think, you know, maybe the adults in the house, maybe law enforcement will want to know what's going on here.

Right. So. Yeah, and I could imagine that they're not seeing the camera the way it's set up. Right. It's got to be just like right out in the open. Yeah. I just feel like there's a real. I still am kind of giving them the benefit of the doubt in a way.

Because I almost, I mean, it would be crazy for someone who these people appeared to be, I mean, they had camouflage, they had hunters. orange, they had guns. Like they kind of knew what they were doing. Yeah. But they were crazy enough to not know that that camera was on and taking video. Right. And didn't turn it off. So that's step number one that they don't really know what's going on.

Yeah. But, I mean, would it be possible in 2025 that some kid could have been like, oh, they left their trail camera out here? I guess they're not coming back for it. Let's get it. Did you have your, like, contact info or anything on the camera? I'm not sure. We might have.

Yeah. Because in that scenario, they knew. Yeah. Right. But maybe, I mean, yeah, maybe it was more innocent. And this is just like, you know, they thought it was theirs for the taking. Maybe. Well, yeah.

Yeah, it's, it, it was a, it was a unnerving. I mean, I was unnerved because I didn't want to. I mean, I don't know. When somebody steals something from you, you'd feel like they should be held accountable. Was it, I mean, what did you see when you, like, it's set up on a counter? Is it like a kitchen or a bedroom or something? I checked that Maltry app like way too much, you know, throughout the day. And my first clue was I started seeing the cab of a truck.

Right. And I just thought maybe Baird picked up a camera and moved it and didn't turn it off, you know. and then I started seeing faces of people I didn't know. And it was taking videos. Yeah. And I didn't request, like, 90% of the videos, I never, like, requested the video. Because on the Maltri app, you see this, like, thumbnail.

Right. And you request the video, and then it sends it to you. Yeah. Yeah. You know. And so, you know, anyway. So if this is you, if you're out there listening, and you've taken our trail camera, you have a lovely couch.

I will not humiliate you publicly if you'd like to contact me. Several people said, well, Clay, put this video online. And I was like, there's no way I'm going to do that. I mean, I'm not like out for blood. Right. Right. But a lot of people would have. Yeah.

Maybe in a different scenario than me. Well, I mean, I think it makes a big difference that it's a kid, first of all. It does. I think that's a real factor. I've got videos of parents too. Yeah. Yeah. Or somebody.

Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. That's a tough one. I've had a number of things stolen off public land this year. Really? I had a tree stand. And then the most frustrating one was I had a camera that I'd set out like way back in there all year.

And I went to go check it. And someone had just taken the SD card. Which was so disappointing. Yeah. Because I wanted to see what was on there. Yeah. No, no kidding. I might have a big buck on there.

Right. Well, they're like, hey, we can maybe get some into. It would have been nice to return it, you know. Right. Look at it, fine, but at least put back. One time years ago when I was not using cell cameras and I had cameras in bear boxes, it was in bear country. So I wasn't really trying to lock the cameras from people, but I was trying to keep them from bears chewing them up. Yeah.

And so I left them unlocked, but still in a bear box, you know. And I wrote in a Sharpie marker. on the thing. My name, my cell phone number, and I said, call me, and I will share these images with you. Oh, there you go. If you find it.

There you go. It's kind of like people who leave their car unlocked, right? It's like, don't break my window. Just, you know. If you want the car, just take it. Yeah, right. You want the stuff inside.

Just take it, you know. It's a pretty good idea. I felt like it was a reasonable thing that I did, and I never got a single call. Really? I mean, it was so far back. The way I justified it in my mind was that if there's somebody standing right here, I want to be their friend.

Yeah. Kind of one of those deals. Right. Like, I want to know why you're back here because this is a dumb place to be. Right. And, but I never, I never had a call. Maybe, I only got one picture in like a seven-year span of another person. So somebody walked past that camera

and would have seen that, but they didn't mess with a camera. Yeah. So anyway, trail cameras. Trail cameras. Well, speaking of blood trails and trail cameras, the last episode in this season, the detective,

the hunter was killed out in the forest in Michigan. And the detective put trail cams looking at the place where the guy died because he thought maybe the person who killed him will come back. Oh. And it's kind of a long story, but sure enough, a guy comes back multiple days.

They get photos of him looking down at the spot where this guy died. And then he also gets independently other tips coming in saying, you should look at this guy. Turns out it's the same guy. But I thought that was a smart use of trail cams. You know, you think about... Did he hid the trail camera, though? Yeah, he hit it really well. Right, he hit it.

So the guy didn't know there was a camera there, but he's walking past the crime scene, like a week after it happened. Wow. And I was like, that's a, that's really smart. Because you'd imagine, you know, if that happened, you'd go back, right? If, whether it was an accident or on purpose,

like, you'd kind of have this fascination with that spot. Yeah. And, yeah, I won't give it away, but that guy who they saw on the trail cam ended up, he had an analysis. I'll buy, and it's this kind of whole thing. Oh, wow. Yeah.

Well, okay, I have a similar scenario, but not with a human. So in Arkansas, a couple of months ago, well, October 2nd, there was a bear that killed a man in Arkansas about two hours from here. Yeah. Game and fish put up trail cameras at the spot and put up a bunch of traps and bait. and basically if a bear came back in that fit the description of the bear that we had pictures of

so the guy that had been killed took pictures of a bear in his camp and Bear Newcomb and I by kind of happenstance were involved in some way with this we were there when they found it out and so they set up after that day they took the body

and they set up trail camera Cells, sale cameras. And basically they said, if we get a picture of a bear that does not go in a trap, the first chance was to put it in a trap and catch it. But it was right during October when all the aacons were falling, and all of us that hunted bear over bait knew that probably the bear was not going to go in a trap. And sure enough, we were right. Three days later.

So it was a Thursday afternoon when we went to the scene of where the guy was killed. And then that Sunday afternoon, we got a call. and I knew guys that had dogs that would tree bear. And so we got a call that they had a bear on camera. This is kind of a follow-up because we talked about this on Bear Grease, Render, but we didn't tell the rest of the story, as Paul Harvey would say. So we thought the bear that killed this guy is going to come back to where it happened. Still in the area.

Well, sure it up, three days later, a juvenile male shows up on the guy. the camera and gave me fish calls and they're like bam yeah it's here bring the hounds yeah didn't go in a trap so we zoom over there and uh and basically i was just a part of it and there were there were two or three local houndsmen turned loose dogs yeah tree this bear within an hour yeah i mean it was just like that easy wow and uh they shoot the bear yeah i i get there right after the bear's been shot. I did talk about this. So we haul the bear out in a body bag

out of this big canyon. And they sent it to the crime lab. And every one of us there that night I think would have bet our trucks that it was the bear. Just, you know, it was the only bear that showed back up. Right. It goes to the crime lab

and it's not the bear. wrong bear disappointing yeah so it's kind of like I don't know the final don't spoil it for me but your criminal sounds like came back to the scene our criminal never did

because one bear in 30 days they kept trail cameras up and fresh bayed out for 30 days at this place called Sam's throne where this man was killed not a single other bear came in there That was the only bear that came back, and it was not the bear. And it had a blonde muzzle.

It was a small male. Like, it looked exactly like the one in the picture. No kidding. Yeah. It did. And they had a, I know, like, with, I assume they did, like, DNA testing where they compared the saliva and things. Yeah.

And they had a high degree of confidence, not the right bear. Yeah. Like, really high degree of confidence. Wow. Because, you know, the body, the man had. Yeah. Right. Bear DNA all over it.

Yeah. Yeah. And so it was a wrong bear. Yeah. Well, man, tell me about blood trails. So if you're listening to Bear Grease, you've probably heard about blood trails before. But tell me just like the general premise of it. Yeah.

So it's a true crime podcast about hunters and anglers is kind of the elevator pitch for it. So they're criminal cases. sometimes a hunter is killed sometimes the hunter is the perpetrator there's a few stories where hunters go missing and it's not like he got lost or whatever there's suspicious circumstances that surround the missing person

and so this is the first season it's almost done as of this recording there's eight episodes in this first season but we're working on more so if you like these first eight there's going to be more coming up in the next year. So there'll be seasons with like blocks of episodes. Yep.

Yeah, we're going to release them by season. So, you know, I don't know exactly what the release schedule will look like, but we're thinking sometime in the spring will release another block of 8 to 10. Okay. And there... You do maybe two of those a year? Yep, yep. That's the hope.

That's the hope. And the episodes are usually kind of standalone. I think we'll do the occasional like two-parter where it's, you know, two episodes, but, you know, each, each episode is a different case. And they're about an hour long? Yeah, about an hour long. Some are a little more, some a little less. But yeah. So did you, were you interested in this kind of stuff before?

Because you're also a writer at meat eater. Yeah. You write a lot of just like hunting and fishing stuff, news related stuff. Yep. Yep. Yeah. So I'm, I'm the managing editor of the website. So I write a lot of the articles on the website.

I also help Ryan Callahan write his podcast. Okay. So he does, you know, I'm sure everyone knows, Cal's Week in Review. It's a news podcast. Yeah. So I'm always sort of in the weeds on the latest news, the latest stories coming out. And a lot of the stories we cover for both the website and for Cal's podcast are crime stories. And usually there, it's wildlife crime.

So it's poachers, things like that. But, you know, occasionally there'll be a hunter who dies. and we'll cover that type of story as well. So, yeah, this is something I've been doing for quite a few years now, researching these stories, finding sources, trying to put the pieces together. And Blood Trails really started with this guy rode in, and he said, my buddy was killed, he was a turkey hunter,

and he was killed out in the woods. They never found out who did it, but I have some ideas on who did it. And that was obviously very interesting. So I call him up and he tells me this wild story of he did his own kind of investigation. He came up with his own suspects, but law enforcement, you know, for whatever reason they never charged anyone. You know, the person who did it was never found. And so I thought this story is good enough, you know, not just for an article on the website, but for a whole podcast, like a whole episode.

And so we put out that podcast back in March of this year as a kind of a pilot episode. And people like that a lot. And so we decided, you know what? Let's, there's plenty of stories out there, right? And that's a question I get is like, how many stories could there be? Yeah, that was my next question. Yeah, criminal stories related to hunters, anglers. And we do expand it out a little bit to, you know, hikers, campers, people who are using public land in some way.

And there's, there's tons. I mean, there's tons. Really? Just this last year. And this is another story we're looking into. There are these two kids who were camping out in Arizona on some public land that were found murdered. And it was totally random. They couldn't figure out who did it.

They just arrested a suspect just like a month ago. And so, you know, unfortunately, these stories are fairly common. And, you know, we're going back to the earliest story from this season is not. 1975. So, you know, if you take that expanse of time, there's going to be plenty of stories like this. Wow. Yeah, that really was going to be by next story is, you know, how common is this? Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, you know, unfortunately common enough. And once these first episodes started to come out, we're getting tons of emails. Like, hey, you should cover this story. Hey, you should cover that story. Even we're getting detectives, you know, who say, I have this cold. case from the 90s. We haven't figured out who did it. I'd love to talk to you so you can kind of spread the word. And a lot of times with those cold cases, people are more than happy to talk,

you know, because they want to get the word out. They want to help. And I have heard back, I can't really provide a ton of detail right now, but I have heard back from a few of the people involved in episodes that have come out who have said, this is getting people talking. we think we're making some progress here just because of the you know getting the word out and and a lot of times you know if if law enforcement's talking to me it probably means they really what they really need are tips coming in from someone someone who knows something um and so that's what they're relying on and you know i hope i hope some of these episodes can generate some of those for them when when one of these helps solve a case i would love that because i mean one of these helps solve a case i would love that because i mean

One of the things that it's really important to me with these episodes is I want to talk to the families of the victims because I want to know about the victim. I don't want the victim to just be like, you know, it's not just like a puzzle to solve. This is a real person and they have a real family and it impacted them deeply. So I try whenever I can to talk to the families of the victims. and so to have, you know, potentially this case be solved, having spoken with them, and then having told me like how difficult it is, especially for these cold cases, how difficult it is to not know what happened, that would just, I mean, be so cool. Yeah.

So I guess a lot of these true, like the big, like crime junkie is one of the biggest podcast in the world. Yeah. Am I right? Yeah. I think it's, I think I just saw Spotify's list for this year. I think it was four, fourth on Spotify. So in that podcast has helped solve a lot of cases.

Is that right? I think so. Yeah. I've heard that. Yeah. So, you know, I guess it would get a lot of people excited. There's probably some criminals shaking in their boots. Yeah.

And they see their... Me and my, oh, Sillers is on the case. Yeah. Yeah, you better watch it, man. Yeah. You better watch it. I don't know about that. But, you know, it's...

It's fun to have that, potentially that real world, real world impact. So, okay, this is what I wanted to talk to you about when you're dealing with families. Yeah. Like, now, Bear Greece, we really was just happenstance. We just did our first murder, which kind of overlaps into your lane. Yeah, I thought. Lake Pickle was like, Clay, why are you doing this to Jordan? And I was like, doing what?

And I was like, well, it really was just completely having. that we did a murder mystery, yeah, which... Great job, by the way. Yeah, really good episode. Thank you.

It just kind of, the story just kind of fell on my lap. But I'm, more common to us is doing like a outlaw podcast, which involves criminals. Yeah. Right. Or potential criminals.

Maybe guys that were never even caught. Yeah. And I'm always like tiptoeing around and really conscious of people, families, like living, like if I'm talking about someone, I'm thinking about their living family. Yeah. And I feel like that would be pretty sensitive with what you're doing. I don't know. What do you think about? How do you handle that?

Yeah. I mean, that's one of the most difficult things to navigate, right? Is like, you want the family of a victim to talk to you, in part selfishly, because, it's going to make the episodes so much more, you know, interesting for the audience, right? But you also have to recognize, like, you're asking them to relive what's probably the worst thing that's ever happened to them. Right. Like, I've talked to, I talked to a guy who found his father dead in the woods. And, you know, I had to ask him, what was that like? Like, tell me what happened. and in doing that, I'm asking him to relive this horrible thing, right, that he probably tries not to think about. And I'm asking him to try to think about it.

So I never take that for granted. They do it usually because they're wanting the case to be solved. And they recognize that by talking to me, by answering my questions, that could help the case be solved. On blood trails, the stories don't end when the hunt is over. They just get darker. I've seen something in the road. I instantly thought it was a sleeping bed.

And there was a full of blood. Oh, my God. He doesn't have a hit. Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors. Where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce, and the truth gets buried under brush and silence. Indications were he should be right there, but he wasn't. This season, we're going deeper. From cold case files to whispered suspicions.

From remote mountains to frozen backwoods, each story begins in the wilderness and ends in darkness. Because out here, there are no witnesses, no cameras, just fragments and the people left behind trying to piece them back together. He's not an honest person. He's incapable of being honest. Somebody somewhere knows something. I'm Jordan Sillers. Season two of Blood Trails premieres April 16th. Follow now on Apple, Iheart, YouTube, or wherever you get. your podcasts.

When it gets more difficult from my perspective is when the case is closed because we don't just cover cold cases on this podcast. Some of the cases have been officially closed. I would say there are still questions with each story that we cover. There's still unanswered questions. But some of the cases have been officially closed. And so the family feels like, you know, I don't want to talk about this. I want to move on. And, you know, what I hope is that they'll still talk to me because, you know, is like I said, I want the victim to be like a fully fleshed out human. And the best person to make that happen is the family because they're the ones who can tell me,

you know, what was this person? Have you had some people not want to talk to you? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Does it shut the story down? There was, there have been a couple where I've wanted to cover and just have hit brick wall after brick wall. Sometimes it's law enforcement, sometimes it's families. A lot of times people just don't respond. They don't even say, like, I don't want to talk about this.

You just assume. You just can't get any traction. There have been a couple where someone has responded and we go back and forth a bit. And then they decide, actually, I don't want to do this. Yeah. For whatever reason. Sometimes it's... Do you feel a little bit like...

I don't want to use the word icky, but that's the way, that's probably the best word. When you're kind of like digging in somebody and they go, hey, no. Yeah. I mean, because I have before. Well, and this is the reputation that especially true crime podcasts get, right? We're kind of capitalizing on people's grief, right? We're taking advantage of this horrible thing that happened to people. and I'm very sensitive to that,

which is why I always want to be as respectful as possible to everyone involved, whether that's the families of the victims, but also the families of the perpetrators, of the people who have done this horrible thing, their families, as long as they weren't complicit, their families are also victims in a sense. Yes.

And so, you know, it's a tricky thing to navigate. after an episode comes out, the thing, I don't read comments, I don't do that, but the thing that worries me the most is that text from the family member, after they've listened to the episode. And so far, everything's, it's all been positive. I've just gotten, this is great, we really appreciate it, thanks so much, you know, that kind of thing. Yeah. But that's what really, that's what would really bother me, I think, is if a family member

texted me and said, you messed up, you didn't describe this correctly, you made it worse, anything like that. That would really bother me. Man, I completely identify with what you're saying. I told someone just this last week, well, with this Bucky Garrison story. In this case, I wasn't able to contact any of the family on this one. It's just like every time I went that way. It just kind of got shut down. And it wasn't by the family. It was just like couldn't find them. Yeah. It's tough. But I was very interested in Oklahoma Department of Wildlife's like their perspective on it. Right. And so I was kind of like waiting for that text message of like, hey, thanks. Yeah. You know. So I understand, I understand that completely. And I was going to say

the victims that's really easy to talk about a bad guy. Yeah. But really, if you understand humans, you understand that a lot of bad guys come from families that aren't all bad guys. Right. You know? Yep.

And so you're kind of bringing up something from the past. Yeah. It happened a long time ago that's in this family's rearview mirror. Yeah. They're probably trying to get away from it. Exactly. And that's one that's hard, hard. It's easier.

to justify doing the story because this person was the bad guy. And in a sense, you know, you kind of feel justified and like, well, they should have never done this to begin with. So we can tell this story again. But I have felt like in some of the outlaw stuff we've done. Yeah. Been very conscious of the outlaws family. Yep.

You know, just because it's like, this is probably something they wanted to forget. Yeah, their friends or family are going to listen to the podcast, you know, and some of them maybe they don't, they didn't know. and they're going to text them say, hey, I didn't know, you know, your so-and-so was a such-and-such, and it's going to cause problems. Yeah. Like the one episode that came out,

well, it's coming out this week as of this recording, but it's about a guy, a hunter in Georgia, who was found stabbed 18 times, and they ruled it as suicide. And there's all kinds of reasons for that in the podcast. You can listen to that. But his hunting buddy was, you know, suspect number one, right? Because they traveled somewhere else to hunt.

So these two guys were the only two that knew each other. It was kind of in this hard to get to back place. It was dark. It was after dark. And so this guy's hunting buddy was suspect number one. And this is one where, you know, we went back and forth for a while. And he seemed willing to talk about it. But then I think the more he thought about it,

He told me he was just like, as I've been thinking about it, it's brought back so many horrible memories that I just don't want to, I don't want to talk about it. You know, I want to put it in my rear view mirror. I don't want to think about it anymore. And so that, you know, that that's kind of difficult for me as someone who is putting out this story, who, you know, people are going to start talking about this guy again. Yeah. I don't want that to blow back on him because he didn't do it. It's pretty clear that he didn't do it. that he didn't do it. And so,

you know, but again, I think there's a, there's still a public interest in people knowing about these stories. But they're not without, you know, it's not without some qualms on my part.

Yeah. At times. Barry, have any questions for him? You'd be thinking about it. I've got another one. You'd be thinking, you're up next.

What's the typical scenario? Like, like if with all that you've done and you know five years from now after you've done you know 70 of these maybe you would have a better sense but like what happens with hunters and anglers are they usually or is there any trend

are they usually killed by a stranger are they usually killed by their buddy did they usually die on accident what's the trend well I mean I think accident is going to be the number one thing that's not we're not really going to cover unless there's some other kind of circumstance involved.

A lot of those. Though I will say we covered a story of a hunter named Aaron Hedges who went hunting with two of his buddies out in Montana and it appears like

that was probably an accident. But I say probably because there's still some kind of questions. But I would say accident has to be, it's got to be number one, right? Like whether a gun or whatever. I think there are a lot where

I don't know about a lot but it seems to come up where it's an accidental shooting right it's not a malicious like murder but the person who pulled the trigger doesn't runs away doesn't come forward right so that's kind of a crime on top of a crime

he doesn't mean to kill that was like the one the first one the first one in March with a turkey hunter that got shot right at daylight and they just never knew who did it. Right, right. And that's what, you know, the family thinks probably an accident. I would imagine that's law enforcement's theory that they didn't talk to me. So I think that's probably the most common thing. You know, I think I'm sure there are cases where it's malicious and it's a

hunting buddy. I think not super often. I think it's, you know, a lot of times it's that accidental shooting that turns into something more because they don't come forward. They don't confess. They don't, they run away. When was that original? It's the one you ran back in March, the first episode. Yeah. What was the time frame that guy got killed? I want to say it was 2004. It's early 2000. So, very likely the person that shot that guy still alive. It's possible. Yep. I mean, yeah. Assuming that, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's very possible. They're still alive. I can't imagine living with that because and that was the other thing is that there is some evidence that the person

walked up to the body of the victim so it's not like they did it and just didn't know and have been living their life not knowing I can't imagine knowing that and just living living your life yeah wow yeah that's what's strange about some of these stories is to think that the person that did it is still just out there. Yeah.

Well, and I mean, that was really the big, one of the big questions with the Paul Hutchinson case, episode two and three of this year. A guy, he killed a 15-year-old girl up in Montana around the Bozeman area. He raped her, he killed her, and then just went on and lived a life in that area. He became a BLM biologist. He had a wife and two kids just living in that same area.

And he was eventually found out. And right after law enforcement interviewed him the first time, he went and committed suicide, which for a lot of people is like the greatest, there was DNA evidence, but the greatest evidence of his guilt is that. Yeah. And so obviously, you know,

this is something he's lived with. for 20, 20 years, right? 20, 30 years. And the moment he's like, there's any kind of accountability, he's... Yeah, so how did you get the video for that? Because in this episode, and I think I texted you when I watched it, I was on like pins and needles. Much of the episode is an actual interview that police did with this guy.

Yeah. Yeah. How did you legally get access to that? So that was, and I have to kind of give credit where credit is due, 48 hours covered this story. Okay. And they got that video. They had it in that episode. So that's how I knew, like, it was available in some way. Yeah. Now, it still took me six months because it required me to submit a request. but then that request had to go before a judge who then had to approve it. Really?

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and that wasn't even the hardest thing to get. But yeah, that had to go before a judge. So I was kind of just in line waiting. The clerk who helped me was very nice. She always answered my emails because I was constantly like, hey, when is this? You know, but yeah, it was just waiting. So the judge approved it, signed off on it.

The clerk, you know, I asked for a few other things alongside with that. put it all together, um, and mailed it to me. I got a flash drive in the mail with the video on it. Yeah. But yeah, that's actually,

um, that's another kind of big priority for me with, with these episodes is getting stuff like that. Um, and we actually have law enforcement interviews for, for that episode and then these final three episodes all feature in some way, um, law enforcement interviews that we got through public records requests.

Public records requests. So, So that was evidence that was used in the court of law. It would have been if he did. Well, true. Yeah. He was gone. Yeah, but because the case is closed, we have access to that.

So you have legal access to it. Yeah. So that's one kind of benefit. It's kind of like the way I think of it is if it's an open case, if it's a cold case, you can a lot of times get like family and friends will talk to you and tell you what happens. Sometimes law enforcement will. but you don't have access to any of the documents, any videos, any audio recordings because the case is still open.

And so you can't submit a records request for a case that's open because they can't share it. When the case is closed, family oftentimes, you know, like we said, doesn't want to talk. But you can get access to all the case file, you know, everything that law enforcement had. A lot of times, if you're patient, you can get it. Man, that's some strong journalism, you know? Well, it's been a learning process. Yeah, yeah. I didn't realize how time-consuming it was going to be because, you know, a lot of times these public records clerks, it's like, get in line, you know, and you're in the back of the line. And so you just have to wait. In Park County, Montana, I actually had to open, I don't know if it's technically a lawsuit, but I had to like pay money to open a case with the court in order to get some incident. reports from that Aaron Hedges case. And so, you know, it's just, and the other thing, it's a

different process for each state. Some states are very quick. Some states are very slow. Wow. Wow. What's your question? I got two questions. They're connected. How many of the, of your, you've done eight episodes so far? How many of them have been like last 10 year? Let's see. I think all of them have been, So there are two that are, one is from 1975 and the other is from 1977. All of the rest of them have been within the last 10 to 20 years, I would say. Okay. So most of them are more recent.

The older ones, those have their own challenges, right? Because sometimes people have died who like the investigators, you know, some of the family. And so that can be challenging in and of itself. But yeah, most of them, I think, are more recent. So as you're like looking, you know, like trying to find cases, have you noticed any sort of like increase in events like this happening in the like recently? Because I know like around here this summer two people got killed in like a state park. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

That's right. And that was just like unfathomable to me. That was a horrible story. Yeah. Like whenever that happened, we were actually on our way to the state park. Really? Yeah, my uncle called me and said turn around. And there's been a few other events like that recently that like, I don't know, maybe I've just never been paying attention, but it has seemed like stuff like this has been happening more.

Yeah, I don't know. And that's a great question. I don't know that I've noticed a particular like over time increase. But it makes sense that, you know, as, I guess this depends. on where you live in the area of the country you live in, but, you know, some areas, you're seeing a lot more people out in the woods. And so it would make sense if there's more people out there, more opportunities for stuff to happen. And so in that sense, it's probably somewhat of a numbers game. But like, you know, people are people. Like, people have been

doing horrible things to each other for, since people have been around. And so I don't, I don't think there would necessarily be an uptick for, like, any other reason than just more people out there in some areas. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, you think about the population of the U.S. is now like 330 plus million. Yeah.

And I mean, even back in the 1980s, I mean, it was like 250 million or 240. So, I mean, like 100 million, almost 100 million more people in America since, like, I was born. And, I mean, that's just a lot of potential conflict. Yeah. So I would, it feels like our murder. Maybe not murder per capita, but there's more murders than there would have been, I would imagine. Yep. Yeah, I think so.

Yeah. And more people are using, recreate non-public lands and doing everything. Yeah. Yeah, you know, my dad always used to tell me when I was a little kid hunting by myself or he would drop me off and I would be scared of the dark. Yeah. And he would always be, son, there's nothing out here to be. scared of, what you should be afraid of as people. Yeah.

You know? I like, for a while I kicked around a kind of a tagline for blood trails that was something along those lines. Yeah. It's like the people are the most dangerous. Whatever. I don't know. Well, I think that's a realistic idea that most people have when they're in the woods.

Yeah. I mean, most people aren't afraid of, I mean, unless you're in like a high-density grizzly area or something. Yeah. That's really about the only thing that you should legitimately. Yeah. be really cautious of, I would say, almost in all of North America. I mean, other than rattlesnakes and stuff, but people.

Yeah. People would be what you would. Yeah, when I'm out in the woods, like, you know, camping by myself, it's usually, usually what I'm worried about. Like, when I hear something walking out there, I'm usually not too worried about it being like a bear or something. It's usually the thought that's running through my mind is like, is that a person. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so Bear Grease, yeah, we did, I think, our first murder mystery this week on this story title, The Unusual, the unusual death of Melvin Bucky Garrison. And it was pretty, it was interesting, and I kind of told how it happened, but I was in O'Kima, Oklahoma. Actually, eating lunch with Evan Felker of the Turnpock Tributors. and his good buddy, Andrew Stubbs, who was on the episode in the cold open. And we're sitting around the Shoney's Buffet there in Okina,

which if you hadn't been there, you should check it out, a pretty classy place, to get the lowdown. And I believe Andrew Stubbs was eating his dessert of peaches and cottage cheese when he said to me, we're talking about some Bear Grease outlaw stories.

And he was like, now I heard about an old outlaw over here that killed the game warden. Yeah. That was just what he said. And I was like, what do you mean? And he begins to tell me the story that he had heard his whole life about Melvin Bucking Garrison. Yeah. And I was intrigued by the story.

And immediately that very day contacted the captain of the first division of wildlife in Oklahoma, the guy named Hank Jinks. And I said, is the name Bucky Garrison? mean anything to you and he was like oh yeah yeah he knew it immediately and had told me hey clay i actually was talking about bucky garrison like very recently and that's kind of how it all that's kind of how it all started and uh and so we set up and this is one of these stories that happened so long ago it was hard to find it was almost it was difficult to do it because most of the people that were actually involved in it are not around anymore.

Right. But it was also a unique story for me because, and a little bit touchy, because the suspect is, to the court of law, is completely innocent. Right. Yeah. And so so much of the story was about this guy that they think did it. Right. Right.

And that's kind of tricky too. Yeah, well, I wanted to ask you, because this is something I think a lot about, is what was the thought process behind deciding to not say his name in the episode? The guy's family still lives right there. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and it just is hearsay. Right. I kept

I kept searching for concrete evidence that this guy had done it and there's just none other than everybody over there says that they

heard this guy second hand basically admit to it right yeah you referenced that kind of towards the end yeah that he admitted to it Well, but I mean, I don't know if he did or not.

Right. So, Jordan, you're taking words out of my mouth. I didn't say he admitted it. I said, I was told by people through the grapevine that had believed that he admitted it. Right. But I just feel, I just have enough maybe it's ill-fated hope, but I just feel like if he had actually admitted it, that he would have, they would have got him. I mean, they, you know. It depends on the, because one of the episodes in this season is a hunter who went missing.

And the game wardens is up in Maine. The game wardens basically tracked down the two guys who they thought did it. And they just couldn't quite get enough evidence to put them away. They basically kidnapped him. He was, he'd shot a deer, they stole his deer, killed. killed him and then, you know, left his body somewhere. And one of the guys allegedly told basically a drinking buddy that he'd done it and he explained everything. And this guy went to the police. The problem was the police were like,

this guy is not a credible person. Right. So we could try to put this guy on the stand and say, and he could say, yeah, you know, he told me, he did it. Here's what he said. But no, you know, defense is going to, like, tear him apart. So they're like, we need a more credible person. So I don't know who this guy supposedly told in the Bucky Garrison story, but it could have been just someone who, you know, no one would take seriously. And that could have been the problem. Well, Bear, you listen to it. What was your general impression of the story? Like, what stood out to you? It was, what was, what do you think? Well, I think it was pretty, Well, okay, I think that the number of people that knew both the perpetrator and the Bucky, I think that speaks a lot to it.

Like, I feel like there's a lot of power and just like the human gut, you know, like people just like knowing. I like it. Knowing if something has happened or not. And like kind of connecting dots that, you know, don't necessarily. Like, yeah, logical. I think there's a lot of power in that. But it is really hard to say because I also think a lot of times, like, as, as, like, the group starts to believe it, more and more people start to believe it. Yes.

And then eventually it just becomes back. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, like, it's hard in this situation to really determine, like, what side of that the people are on. like did the people does everyone who believes it do they just believe it because you know they were told that or do they believe it because they actually knew knew the the situation and everything around it and can kind of put two and two together so it's it's i'm kind of conflicted i really can't i can't i can't say i can't really well if you had to today if you were the decider and you

we had to go off what you thought from the amount of information you have. Did the suspect do it, or did Bucky die a natural death? I don't think, I would say I don't think that he died a natural death. But what was the, his partner's name was Bullet? Bullet Burns. Yeah. You think, Bullet did it? No, no, no, no.

But Bullet said, it's a great name, by the way. Bullets. Bullet and Bucky. I mean, come on, dude. Write me a ticket, guys. I mean, I just want to be around y'all for a while. But Bullet, his theory was that, like, two people did it in a boat. Yeah.

Was it? I couldn't, I wasn't quite tracking if he thought that the, what everyone else, the guy that everyone else thought did it. Oh, 100%. Okay, he did. Oh, 100%. Okay, okay. Well, I would, I would have to say that I would, I would probably believe that you did. You believe what Bullitt thought?

Yeah. Just because. Like the waiters being stripped off and the bullet, like the actual bullet. One shot, yeah. And then the shotgun being gone. I mean, it's just like there's no way. I mean, like, how else could that have happened? Last spring, Clay Newcomb and I collaborated with Jason Phelps at Phelps game calls

and building each of our own favorite turkey diaphragms called prime cuts. Now, I'm going to tell you, I love mine because it's easy to use. I'm not going to go, I'm not going to win a turkey calling contest. It's just not going to have. happen. But when I run this call, I get the sounds that gobblers are looking for. I have a great turkey hunting track record. If you go listen to real turkeys out in the woods, they're not going to win calling contests, right? That's who I listen to. I can make those sounds on my cut. I also hunt with Phelps's cut, and I hunt with Clay's cut because they're all three great cuts. Check out prime cuts at Phelps gamecalls.com. I think you'll be glad.

You did, and you'll find out that the Steve Ronella cut is an easy-to-use cut for beginning callers who just want to start making good turkey noises and getting action. The waiters thing is very weird. Were they, like, chest waiters? Yeah, I mean, it just would have been, there was no detail. Again, we don't have the case file. The case file's gone. Right.

But you just assume it would have been a really primitive pair of waiters from the 1970s. And then so bullets theory was that he was kind of dragged along by a boat. Yep. And that's how the waiters got stripped off. Yeah. I mean, I was trying to figure out how could that have possibly happened. And that's the, I mean, that's as good a theory as I couldn't come up with anything. So I don't know how else.

I thought maybe some waterfowl guys might give just like a scenario. And I actually saw one comment today. on social media that said he thinks it's possible that he got water in his waiters and was just trying to take him off. Oh yeah, that's a good point. You would just be trying to shed yourself of him.

How he died, how you drowned doing that and water that deep and you're 27 years old and capable and strong. That doesn't make sense. But his whole point was, I think he was trying to take his waiters off. but still it doesn't make sense of why you would. Yeah.

Why you would. Well, what do you, I mean, Jordan, what kind of talk, given the same scenario. Yeah. What do you think? I, I just don't think there's enough that I know to know, like, these details from how they found him. It's really hard to come up with a scenario that it counts. for all of these details. Like whether he was killed by someone else

or whether it was an accident, it's harder to come up with a scenario if it was an accident. There's the dirt under his nails, how'd that happen? There's the, why did he shoot one shot from his derringer, right? So it seems to me, so I definitely agree with Bear

that something happened, probably not an accident. But I don't know why without any kind of other details. I mean, one thing I was thinking was, I assume, they looked at the suspect's alibi. Like, did you have an alibi? Did you have anyone else who could vouch for his whereabouts? And we just don't know that.

And that's like a really basic kind of, that's a very first thing. Yeah, yeah. Another thing I thought was, I think you said to get out there, it was like one road, basically. So were there other tire marks or was it just so, was it used so much that that wouldn't have been an issue? or like not something you could figure out. So just stuff like that. There's so much that I just, you know, it's impossible to say. Yeah, and that's where this as a story was, you know, weak in a way

because we just didn't have all the data. Yeah. When I first started getting into the story, and what became most interesting to me was how confident everyone was in the story. I mean, Ed Rodebush, like, and now he, I've got to, he's a competent man, like, had a really good career with the game and fish. Yeah. And it was like a legitimate guy. Yeah.

And, you know, here he came 10 years later, worked with Bullet Burns for a long period of time. And Bullet would have been firsthand, you know, within arm's reach of this deal. And Bullet Burns was completely convinced of who. did it and how it happened. And I mean, you get the sense that Bullet Burns was a pretty legit guy. Right. And so you kind of just have to go, man, going back to what Bear said,

there must have been more than what we had than the evidence that we have. You would think because another thing I thought is like were there rumors that this guy killed anyone else? That's

another question I had. Because usually it's, you know, if you do something like that get away with it. Like, it's either not the first time or it's not the last time. But another thing is, is the gentleman you interviewed, who was Bullets partner, said, I mean, he stopped this guy 30 times over the course of his career. Yes. And according to his theory, that's what Bucky was doing.

He was stopping him. It was a wildlife enforcement thing. So why would this guy kill a game warden because he was caught? poaching when he'd been caught poaching before he was caught poaching after it just doesn't seem like a response that's like consistent with how he behaved for the rest of his life yeah yeah 100% i've had the same thought yeah like and and when i asked ed about his response to the guy i said so the first time you met this guy what did you think yeah and he said he said he said said, I thought his answer was very straightforward.

He said, I was looking at his chest, a six-inch circle on his chest. And I was going to put all six of them right there. It was going to be him and not me. It was quite that. I don't think he said that lightly. Yeah. Like, he is not frivolous. Right.

And this guy, Ed, was, I mean, just like a veteran, well-respected officer. Yeah. I mean, I don't know all the details of his career, but, I mean, like, you know, a good guy. Yeah. I don't think he said that. I don't think he would say that about anybody else in his career that he dealt with. Yeah. But I also know that if I tell you, Jordan, the guy that's about to walk in this door is a murderer.

Mm-hmm. I tell you that, whether it's true or not, that's going to taint the way that you think about this guy and interact with him. Right. Right. And I'm going to tell my buddy later on, I met this guy. He was acting kind of weird, right? There were these things about him, the way he looked at me. me, right?

Yeah. And if you hadn't had told me that, I might not have thought that. Yeah. So we can influence how we view other people by just being told something about them. Who knows whether it's true? 100%. Yeah. And my intent was not to defend this wildlife criminal.

What we know was a convicted wildlife criminal. Right. My goal was not to defend him at all, but I kept thinking about how easy it would be to pin something on and what I thought about was back to my own hometown. Louis Dale and Charlie Edwards, we did a series years ago called Genuine Outlaws about these two guys from my hometown that were notorious turkey outlaws. And I just thought, what if there had been a wildlife-related, a Game Warden murder, or a dead game warden in the epicenter of their turf?

Right, right. You could have interviewed 100 people and said, who killed that game word? And they all probably would have blamed those guys. Yeah, yeah. For no reason other than they had animosity towards the game and fish. Yep. But, I mean, you know. So I just recognize how easy it would be if there was a murder in the epicenter of a pretty known outlaws region,

that you would just be like, well, I bet that guy did it. Yeah. That would be easy. Well, and like on the kind of on the other side of that argument, we've seen how these kind of serial offenders, these serial poachers, kind of end up moving towards, you know, crimes against humans, right? Like, it indicates something about their, you know, whether they're antisocial, whether they have some kind of, you know, mental health issue, whether, you know, they're just like, I don't care.

Obviously, they don't care about the law, right? And so then if they're in a position where, you know, they can get some advantage by hurting someone else or killing someone else, they're kind of used to breaking the law, right? And this is not like, this is not, and this is what I've heard from game wardens. Like, this is not the guy who goes out and like accidentally, you know, shoot a deer on private land or even like knowingly poaches at night one time. This is like this serial wildlife criminal. A lot of times they end up doing worse things. And so, you know, it kind of fits that pattern. This guy sounds like he doesn't care about wildlife laws at all.

Yeah. That's established. And so, you know, maybe he had something going. He really cared about out there, you know, in the woods. And this game warden was going to mess it up. I don't know. And something happened. Would you have told the guy's name?

No. I don't think so. I think, and that's generally been our policy on blood trails is if they haven't been accused, like officially accused, we don't say their real name. Yeah. That it's, it's, it, it, it, there was one episode where we got into a potential suspect. There was some evidence, though, along with testimony from family. But generally speaking, we don't use the real name. And for the same reasons that we talked about,

like the family's still around. There's also, you know, legal, potential legal issues, right? If you defame someone. And, you know, there are protections. First Amendment. Like, we journalists have protections, but it's like, do you need to get into that potential liability to tell the story? And if the answer is no, we could still tell it without that and we could be faithful to the story, then it's kind of like we don't feel the need to. Yeah. So. Now, okay, but then why did you wonder why I didn't tell the story, tell the guy's name? I thought maybe you were going to be like, oh, yeah, I would have told the guy's name.

No, I just wanted to hear what your rationale was. Yeah, because I've thought the same thing many times. Like, do we say the real name? Do we not? And so I just was curious what you're thinking was. Yeah, yeah. Well, I just, as I heard the story, I was like, I mean, this guy was never convicted. I mean, they never even tried him.

Yeah. They never even brought a conviction against him. So it's just like, the guy's, the guy's innocent. Yeah. And if you don't know, like, if there's no reason. besides the kind of public rumor, then it's really like we can't, you know, like defame this guy and potentially harm his family

for no reason, basically. Yeah. So. Well, it was, it was, I wish I could be in that community and understand, you know, like what all these people know. or think they know. Yep.

Because there's got to be, and I know there was more back in the day in terms of a criminal case. You know, I think about the shotgun and again, not trying to I mean,

the shotgun could have been mashed down in the mud somehow and they just never found it. I mean, they said they drained the lake and took metal detectors out there and stuff. Yeah. But there's a lot of big questions. But if the gun, the gun ended up being the biggest thing that screamed foul play.

Yeah. You know, the missing shotgun. Yeah. That was probably the biggest thing. Yeah. Yeah. I wondered if maybe, so why are we so certain he had it in the first place? Like, not just that he took it out with him, but that he had it like in the truck.

Was it just always in the truck? That was, again, this is one of these things that just time has erased the details. But I think if we had that case file, they would have been 100% certain that he had the gun. And I think we couldn't say that because surely they would have gone to the family and been like, is Bucky's shotgun at the house? Right. And they're like, no, he had, he always carried it in his truck. And the wardens, you know, Hank Jenks was like, yeah, he would have carried a, always carried a shotgun. Right.

They always carried a shotgun. Right. So, I mean, he had a shotgun. As I understand it, I think we could say. He had a shotgun before the incident and the family and him and everybody. The shotgun was gone after it. Because I did wonder if maybe someone stole it from his truck, like between, like, as it was just parked out there, if someone came along and they just saw it and they took it. from the truck.

Well, I mean, that would have been a major coincidence, though, too, wouldn't it? You know what I mean? It would have. It would have for sure. Yeah. Yeah. But again, it was like, and I think someone said this, like, why would he have taken it in there if he was just doing, like, enforcement stuff? Yeah. Right.

Because, like, it's kind of threatening, you know. Yeah. He had his derringer. to me it was the shot from the Derringer that said foul play more than the shotgun not being there because that's like

we know he pulled that trigger for some reason probably because he felt threatened for some reason so that to me was the biggest indication like yeah something happened

because you wouldn't just I don't know probably not just do it for fun yeah right yeah Yeah, well, I'm really excited about this next episode. We're going to go into territory that we've never gone into before in Bear Greece and that we are going to...

How much detail did I give in the outro of the podcast? Do you remember what I said? You said a game warden had to use deadly force. Yeah, to avoid getting drowned. Oh, I just spilled the whole thing out. Maybe we can take that back. I'm kidding. No, we, you didn't do that, bear.

I did. I spilled the hole. Okay, well, I was just thinking, I'm not totally sure you said that or not. No, I think you're right. I think I think I did. You know what, Jordan, when I first started Bear Grease, one of the first real feedback that Steve Ronella gave me, which was really good. as he said, I feel you're burying the hook too deep.

Mm-hmm. Because sometimes I would go too deep before you kind of gave the hook. Yep. And so I think I've found a happy medium because sometimes you want to just like tease people along. But then sometimes you've got to just like tell them what happened. You know what's funny? He's given also great advice to me for blood trails. He's been a big part of it.

But he gave me the opposite advice. He was like, Jordan, you're giving a way. way too much. You're giving away too much too early. You need to tease them a little more. Yeah, give them a reason to keep listening. So I guess we just have opposite tendencies there. Yes. And that could be just from, you know, doing journalism, you put everything at the top, right? Like, first three paragraphs is going to be all the most important information. So that's just the model that I've written in for so long. It was hard to kind of save some, you know, keep some things back. That's funny. Because, yeah, I'm.

I would have been opposite. If it was up to me on every bear grease, you wouldn't hear the hook till the very last second. And then you would just be like, oh my gosh, I couldn't, I've been on pins and needles this whole time. But you kind of got to,

you kind of lead them in. And then you kind of got to tell them, like, what's going on. Yeah. And then, so, yeah. So, yeah. So, yeah, so, yeah, so this next episode, though, we, we interview a Game Warden,

who, uh, tells us, tells us the story. of having to use deadly force on someone that's trying to drown him. So that's all I'll say. It's pretty interesting. Wild story.

It is. It is. It's a wild story. Well, so after this comes out, there'll be one more episode of blood trails for this year. Last episode comes out December 18th. Okay. Now, there's a chance. Well, yeah.

Last episode comes out December 18th. leave it at that. Okay. Yep. Thursdays is when they come out every Thursday. Yeah. So they have been coming out every Thursday for like eight weeks. Yep.

Exactly. When you run your seasons, you just run them all together. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like that model for a podcast. Yeah. You know, we five years ago just went with the,

we're going to just have an episode every week, you know. And so, but I feel like you might. that model gives you time to probably make some really quality episodes. Yeah, I mean, I couldn't. Because we thought about that too, and it's just too much of a lift for me to do that, you know, that many episodes over that amount of time. Because I could work ahead, right? But then I wouldn't be able to keep up. Yeah.

Because it takes so long to, you know, like I say, get those public records. Sometimes it's six months. Yeah. I was trying to talk with an investigator in Georgia. It took six months for him to get approval from his agency and then like all the whole process. It just, it takes too long. So we do them by seasons because, you know, we try to just make sure the quality is there. And I've at least tried to talk to all the relevant people.

Yeah. Yep. Well, cool, man. Well, anything else you need to tell us about blood trails? There's a YouTube version of it. There is. Yeah, you can, it's up on YouTube. There's a video version of the podcast. It's not quite date line yet, but we're working on it. But people seem to really like it. So, and like, if you're curious about what these people look like, that's a great way to watch it. There's also, we have a

web page for each episode. So at themeatheater.com slash blood trails, there's a case file for each of the episodes where we post images, you know, links to listen. And then we have an email. So it's Blood Trails at theMeetheater.com. If, you know, you have a story you think we should cover or a tip from a story that we've already covered, feel free to send that in. And I read all of it and try to respond to as much as I can. Cool, man. That's great. Well, you're doing a great job with it. You really are. I know it's a lot of work. And, yeah, you're doing a great job. I look. I look forward to when blood trails solve some

crack some case. That'll be cool. Yeah, that would be very cool. That would be very cool. Yeah, no, I've been blown away by the response. People seem to really like it. And I just appreciate everyone who's listened to it. Yeah.

Well, so the Meat Eater Live Tour is starting very soon after this episode comes out. I think there's still tickets available in Birmingham, Birmingham, Nashville, Memphis, Dallas, and Austin. I think there's still tickets.

The only town, Jordan, that there's not tickets left is Fayetteville, Arkansas. There you go. Come on. There you go. Coming out to see. Well, I mean,

Clay and Bear. Well, I'm not, that's not what I'm insinuating. Just meat eater, I'm kind of bragging on this. They asked me, or I told them a long time ago, I was like,

if we do a live tour, You got to come to Fayetteville, Arkansas. Yeah. And so when they were putting this live tour together, one of the higher-ups, the big man called me and was like, you think we should come to Fayetteville? I was like, you got to come to Fayetteville. Yeah, yeah. And sure enough, in three days, the show is sold out.

So I keep thanking the people of Arkansas. It's good folks. Yeah. Yeah. You know, Brent's on a live tour. And then, yeah, Bear will be there. That's kind of a secret. I'm going to let it out, though.

Bear will be there. And then we'll have one other secret guest that you'll be very glad is there. All right. So it's going to, in Fayetteville. And there's secret guests at every location, you know. So they're all going to be fun. Yeah. All going to be fun.

Yeah, for sure. For sure. You coming to one in Dallas? I'm going to try. Yeah. I'm going to try. It's like three days before Christmas, but I'm definitely going to try to be there. It's tough.

Yeah. But it's a Christmas, it's a Christmas theme. Hey, if you're, if you're, off work, you know, come out, have some fun. Yeah. Bring your friends. Like, it sounds like a great time.

I've never met anybody that was disappointed. I'm sure there, there, it's possible that someone would have been disappointed that wouldn't have contacted me. Like, what is this? The vibe, the vibe that I've gotten from every single live event, live tour that I've been on has been that just people have a great time. Yeah. Yeah.

Kind of a surprising good time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They do a great job with them. Yeah. For sure.

They're fun. They're fun. So, all right. Well, thanks, Jordan, for coming up. Yeah. Thanks for having me. It's good to finally get out here. Everybody can check out blood trails.

Now, the YouTube channel is it, the podcast, meat eater podcast. Yeah. We have like a separate YouTube channel for the podcasts. So it's on there. Yeah. It's right there towards top. Yeah. If you just search that, it'll come up.

Yeah, blood trials. All right. Well. Keep the wild places wild because that's where the bears live. On Blood Trails, the stories don't end when the hunt is over. They just get darker. I've seen something in the road. I instantly thought it was a sleeping bag.

And there was a full of blood. Oh, my God, he doesn't have a hit. Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors, where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce, and the truth gets buried under brush and silence. Indications were he should be right there, but he wasn't. This season, we're going deeper. From cold case files to whispered suspicions,

from remote mountains to frozen backwards. Each story begins in the wilderness and ends in darkness. Because out here, there are no witnesses, no cameras, just fragments and the people left behind trying to piece them back together. He's not an honest person. He's incapable of being honest. Somebody somewhere. Know something.

I'm Jordan Sillers. Season 2 of Blood Trails premieres April 16th. Follow now on Apple, IHeart, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.