Bear Grease - Ep. 41: Bear Grease [Render] - Burning Vehicles, Jack Hammer Day, and More Secrets

Episode Date: February 16, 2022

On this episode of the Bear Grease Render Clay is joined by several of the regulars and two special guests, Moe "Mosely" Shepherd and Rusty "Curly" Johnson. The guys start off hot with three stories of burning vehicles, one which ends up with Clay in an auto parts store begging for water. Then Clay tells why February 13th is called "Jack Hammer Day" in his family. It's the story of a giant wild hog and how he won Misty's heart with the story it's escape. Lastly, the guys talk about the last Bear Grease podcast about secrets. This one is full of laughs and some good conversation. Connect with Clay and MeatEaterClay on InstagramMeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YoutubeShop Bear Grease Merch Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. First Lights fieldware collection is made for the work that happens long before opening day and continues when the season ends. Products built for early mornings, full days and real use. Hard wearing where they need to be versatile where it matters. No shortcuts. Just gear designed for the work that earns the season.

Built to perform, built to last. Check out. First Light's new field. Worldware Gear at firstlight.com. My name is Clay Newcomb, and this is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called the Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual Bear Grease podcast. Presented by FHF Gear, American Made, Purpose Built, Hunting and Fishing Gear that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. Gary's, that beard's filling out, man.

It's looking good. It's tight up against his face. Look like he's groomed it. Yeah. Groomed it a little bit. Excellente. Pull it up. Yeah, about like that.

The bottom of Rusty's beard is actually a wildlife management area. 12,000 acres. I've only known you for about five minutes, but I feel like I can ascertain that immediately. That's a WMA right there. Rough terrain. Oh, man. Well, great to see everybody this fine afternoon. This is the best, one of the nicest afternoons we've had in a while.

Yeah, doors open. Doors open, yeah, here at the global headquarters. Right. Hey, to my left, Daniel Rup, Dr. Dan Rup, good to see you, Dan. Happy to be here. We're going to talk about this podcast, the secret, White Tails Secrets podcast. And I have two secret guests here. Then I'm going to wait until the end.

We're not even going to tell you who they are the whole podcast. We're going to disguise their voices the entire time. My own name is. Oh, I've got a story. I've got a story. But, no, so we've got two secret guests. I would also like to take just a second. And for anybody who is listening to this for the first time

and don't understand the format of Bear Grease, I want to fill you in, okay? The Bear Grease podcast is a documentary-style podcast. where we have multiple guests, we tell stories, it's highly produced. We produce that every two weeks. Every other week, in the off week, we have a bear grease render. And render is a metaphor, okay? Metaphor is when you use a word that is not actually literally used, but metaphorically used. That word is a type in a shadow of the real word.

So when you render bare fat, it turns into bare grease. And it's a process of heating that melts it down. And so in essence, we're taking the bear grease documentary style podcast. We're rendering it down metaphorically. Bringing the guests in, lighting them on fire. Yes. And then so the bear grease render is where we all sit down and talk about the big podcast. So that's what this is.

And it's okay to make fun of you in the process, right? Yes. Okay. That's part. So if the adjective for the podcast is highly produced, what would the adjective for the render be? Like, mediocrely.

It's like train wreck. So, skipping over our secret guest, which will come back to, Josh Spilmaker, great to see you, Landbridge Spilmaker. Thank you very much. Glad to be here. Yeah. You've been doing a little fly fishing. I've been fly fishing a lot.

Even in the, we had 10 inches of snow last week, and I went out in it and then. I went out. I went out last. I went out on Saturday, I guess. And it was, the temperature was about 18 degrees, but man, that wind chill was something. And my reel was literally frozen, wouldn't turn my line. I'd have to dip my rod in the water every few minutes because my guides would fill a full, solid, full of ice. But caught some nice fish.

Did you? Yeah. Went with my friend Keith Reeves. Do you know Keith Reeves? Yes. Yeah. That was the first time I've met him. and he actually,

well, I'll tell you what he, but he messaged me in Instagram once we get started talking about the podcast because it's, he wanted to know, he wanted to know,

yeah, he wanted to know where I was fishing. And he said, are you willing to share? And I had to sit there and think for a little bit. Am I willing to share my hot spot? He's asked me,

he's seen a picture of me, deer hunting by a creek in Arkansas. And he asked me where the creek was. Did he want to fish the creek? He wanted to fish the creek. That's, That's where you're not a fish in the creek. No, it's a pretty avid hunter, though.

This is serious. Good guy. Great, fantastic guy. To Josh's left. Back from wherever he's been. Again? Like the Black Panther himself, Gary Newcomb. Yeah.

Good to be here. Hey, Gary Newcomb. Hey. Good to see you. Hey, thank you. Hey, this dude has been all the way to California. On the campaign trail. There you go.

There you go, man. Tell us a little bit about your trip to California. What were you doing? Where'd you go? Well, there were four couples, and we all traveled by herself, and we ended up in the sand dunes of southern California, Glamas, the most famous best dunes in America, supposedly. We stayed there four days, and then we went north about two hours to Moab, to King of the Hammer. in the desert.

Which is a UTV race. Huh? UTV race. Yeah, it was everything. Big jeeps, little jeeps, motorcycles. Every day there was a race going on. Yeah. And we stayed there about five days.

And it was just extremely wonderful. And I couldn't believe it. My sweet little wife really enjoyed it. That's what I heard. I mean, it's just crazy. She'd go, hey, no, let's not leave yet. I want to see this guy flip. Tell him.

Yeah, tell her about, tell them about the one. place where those guys were flipping and she didn't leave. No, she, a couple times she got in the fetal position riding with me. You got to get your mind right. This is the safest thing we've done in three days, you know, the interstate. You're liable to die any second. I have seen a photo of one of your side by sides consumed in a ball of fire. Oh, yeah.

Luckily, I wasn't in it, though. I mean, I just left it, obviously. I was lucky to get out. But anyway, you know, there's several places that are just, it's just crazy to watch this race what they do. They go through the desert at 100, 110, 150 miles an hour. Then they go through the rocks at two and three miles an hour. They go down big drop-offs, up, drop, you know, climb huge stuff. And it takes quite a vehicle to do all that.

Yeah. So anyway. So my life as a young man was filled with what I just, just thought it was normal. Turns out it wasn't. That explains a lot. Riding in, riding in four-wheeler, side-by-sides,

jeeps with this guy. Hey, we're going to come back to your story. Let me introduce our secret guests. All right, directly across from... Oh, did it give out? I think the chair just gave out. Did it just break? Dan Roop's chair just broke.

Finally. We knew this was going to have. The moment has come. Yeah, go ahead and just... Now you just got a stool to say, I got a stool. Do whatever you need to do. I apologize, guys.

good. There we go. Keep going. All right. Mo Shepherd. My good buddy, Mo Shepherd. The man, the myth, the legend. Also known as Mosley Shepherd. I didn't know that until the podcast, actually. I didn't know it either. I've got some explaining to do. Mo, greet everybody. How's everybody doing today? Glad to be here. They're doing this render cast. Yeah, man. I've known Mo for a long time. I don't know. 15 years, maybe. Maybe not that long. I meant what I said. Mo's one of the best mountain deer hunters that I know hunting some rough, rough ground and just going out and doing it.

He knows what he's doing. You don't keep secrets. You don't find Mo's house on accident. You better know where you're going. That's right. That's right. Yep. So I'm going to introduce the other guests and then I'm going to tell why they have nicknames.

To his left, no stranger to the Berger's Prender, Rusty Johnson. Rusty Curley Johnson. Yeah, good to see you, man Good to see you. Glad to be here. Both of you guys were my, when I decided I was going to do a podcast on secrets, I thought Daniel Rup, because he's got a lot of secrets. And then I thought, you too, because y'all are good at keeping secrets.

And, okay, here's what happened. Originally, the idea of this podcast, I was going to keep their identity sealed. Did you notice there was some incongruency and the names? Did you notice that? I'm pointing. Maybe. Do you even know what we're talking about? No.

Do you listen to the podcast? This podcast is about a podcast. I know. I don't know what you're talking about. Well, you weren't paying attention. You lost me in the metaphor talk. Okay. We're greasing something up.

I didn't know what I was going on. So originally I was going to interview these two guys and I was going to hide their identity because, and it was going to be a joke, because as if they were. telling secrets that we're going to get them in trouble and get them killed or something. And so when we sent it to production at Meteeter, I was like, hey, let's disguise their voices like they do on the movies. Like when they're interviewing a mobster who's wanting to leak some info but not get in trouble.

And so I built the podcast like that and I gave him code names. And his name was Mo's name was Moesley. And I just randomly Moe and Curly. so I just said I just put that I just put that together Rusty Johnson Rusty Johnson was just curly and so I built all the voiceovers

for these podcasts I don't know if you guys know this but there's actually quite a bit of work that goes into these podcasts and I built the I thought you just recorded them on your cell phone who does the work me

no no we got a great production team at Media does a lot of it I just thought that was their name Well, okay, I never specifically said, like I just introduced him as Rusty Johnson, and then what I failed to do was when I, so when I finally listened to it, I didn't, we decided we did not like the disguised voices. So I was like, ah, we just need to just come out with it and say their names. So I changed the voiceover in two spots, but I forgot to change the voiceover

in all the other spots. So I was calling them Mosley and Curly. And so Rusty messages me that, that Wednesday it came out and he said, why is everybody calling me Curly? It's like an inside joke Clay didn't tell you about. Yeah, exactly. Come into work and everybody's like, morning, Curley? I hadn't listened to the podcast yet.

And I'm like, what? Curly, have you listened to the podcast yet? Nope, you might want to. So, how's Beachnut taking hold? Oh, it's doing pretty good. Is it getting some traction? I say Beachnut. Yeah, Spencer Newhart, Nick.

name is getting some traction. Yep. Mm-hmm. Yep. No. So we're going to get, we're going to get back to you guys. But I did promise

the world that I was going to ask you, I need you to tell us about the image that I put on Instagram about three weeks ago of a side by side in the twilight. It was kind of a pretty photo.

It was like, pretty disturbing. Yeah. It was like kind of twilighty. and there's about a side-by-side just engulfed. Like completely engulfed. 30-foot-tall flames. Nothing, ain't nothing left of that side-by-side.

That's why I said, it's a crime scene. Gary's covered his tracks. Yeah. So I told people that I would have you tell that story. What the heck happened? Judy was over in the corner in the fetal position. Well, you know, it was real interesting to me in that my nephew and I ride together a lot. And we like to ride fast and we just enjoy getting together.

And we did that a lot. Well, I had a, I had a 16 model razor. And all of a sudden it started coming out in publications that these things were burning. So my, Sean, Marriott, call me and he goes, hey, Gary, those razors are burning. And I said, you know, I read that. And I said, but it's only when they get hot. And he said, I watch my temperature is a rocket scientist. That man is genius.

I usually have to get hot when they burn. So I watch my temperature gauge and I don't let mine get hot. So I'm fine. Smart. So I was going on about a 150 mile trip. Actually, well, I won't tell you where I was going, but I went through the mounds and through the woods. Secret. We don't know anything.

I looked at Rusty Bureau Home Grounds. I was heading down there. So on the way back, this was brand new. You were riding by yourself. Yeah, by myself, and it's a turbo, and I'm real excited. 150 mile ride. Yeah, real. And so I take my gas cans instead of stacking them in there the way they were,

I got this great idea that I had a better way of doing it. It wasn't a better way. So I just drive this distance, and on the way back, I take a few little jumps and runs and, you know, bouncing off stuff. filling that turbo. Well, about the third time I got airborne when I landed those gas cans turned over. And, you know, at the time,

I didn't see a lot of danger to me. But when I look back and comments from people, they go, you know, you were pretty lucky to get out of there. And so, you know, if it had been a wreck, you might get trapped, But anyway, I got out. There was no way to put it out. I mean, you're just riding and you feel heat coming up. Was it dripping on the exact?

We're looking in the back and I'm seeing, I'm running about 40 miles an hour and there's flames, you know, shooting up. So I, of course, slam on the brakes and I look for water. I look for dirt. Look for anything or nothing there. So I just backed off. I left a real expensive pair of binoculars and I regret it. That's the only thing you regret it. Yeah.

I had good insurance. So anyway, I just thought, man, I got about a six-mile walk out of here. You could have lit a signal fire. I think he did. Well, I tell you, I think he did. It didn't work. Dang. I walked to the highest hill I could find and called James Lawrence.

Yeah. And he came and got them. Yeah. So. And he probably just sniffed you out. He knew exactly where you were by the cell phone. James said. I felt a disturbance in the forest.

Exactly. I knew there was a fire over there. You dialed his number, but you could hear his phone ringing. He stepped out from behind an oak tree. I've been watching you this all the time. Yeah, I saw that coming, Gary. The, you know, the aluminum was melted. The engine, I mean, everything was just, it was just, it was nothing.

The steel was remaining, that's about it. Yeah. Holy cow. And my Shoroskis were melted. I agree with what some of the people commented on. I read some of them. comments because you got that hot machine, you got all that stuff, and you got gas cans in there that turned over at night, it's wonder that thing didn't blow and just blow you and everything.

Yeah, I know. You know, that could have been the real danger. But they had a hose that was coming loose when it got hot, and it was dripping fuel on the turbo, and that was causing them to burn up. But mine was because somebody had set gas cans in the wrong place. That's right. It is. I mean, it sounds like a very safe activity when you describe it all.

I feel like, yeah, trust me. Driving around with a bomb. Well, anybody else here ever had a machine catch on fire? I did see it. I did see in MENA, Arkansas. I pulled up to the stoplight right there by the, what's the train there downtown? What's that? I can't remember what that gas station is right there.

But I looked over and there's an old man and I see smoke coming from under his hood. and within two seconds there were flames rolling out and he's at the gas pump and I see him get back in the car and try to start it so he could drive it off and he's in the car

and somebody comes running out of the gas station grabs him out of the car and reaches in and puts it in neutral and they push it away from the gas pumps and everybody was just... Yeah, trying to get the heck out of dodge. So one time I had a 1991 Jeep Jeep Cherokee.

It was, the year was probably 2005, 2006. Was it red? It was a good Jeep. It was kind of burgundy-ish. And one day I was driving to the U of A, and I see, I'm in Fayetteville, Arkansas, driving down college, and I see smoke start to come out from underneath the hood. And I just go, oh, man, that's not good. And I was within about a half a mile from an O. Raleys, and kind of

downhill. And so I just thought, I'm going to make it until O'Rillis. Or ride this thing out. And so I just made it into, and the car was driving, the Jeep was driving fine. I pull into Raleys and there's more smoke coming out from under the hood. And I, pop it, open the hood, and there is a pack rat nest on top of the hood that is in flames. Oh, my gosh. I mean, just like, when I opened the hood, it was like, yeah, that's what I needed oxygen. And so it just and so I run into the

O'Reilly's and there's like people in line, you know, and everybody's just standing there being quiet, like waiting. And I go, hey, my jeep's on fire in the parking lot. And I promise you, the guy behind the counter, I mean, it was like

he could have cared less. He was just like, he just kind of, people won't be able to see what I'm doing. I'm acting like I'm a sick year old man that doesn't care. And he was just like, what? And I was like,

my Jeep is on fire. Do you have a fire extinguisher or water or anything? And he was just like, well, there's a bathroom over there. There's a toilet full of water. There's a pitcher. There's a pitcher over there.

And I just run behind the counter, grab this pitcher, run back to the bathroom, put it under the sink. And, and get the pitcher only about halfway full of water. Meanwhile, your jeeps outside getting Gary Newcombed. And I run back outside and just douse the Jeep.

And luckily, it never fully caught on fire. It just kind of burned all the hoses on the top. And, uh, but that, that pack rat nest burned up. You've had some bad luck with pack rats. Pack rats will destroy your life. Yeah, I had one, I had one vehicle to burn up on me in 79. Did you? Did you?

I had an old 69 Volkswagen I'd bought the year I graduated. it out of school and this was year after that and I'd cut it down made a ball haul bug out of it to make a long story short I was out in the mountains out there in the and the old and the old and the old national forest just riding some old trails and I guess I'd accumulated leaves up around the engine on the back of that old Volkswagen didn't know it and they got up around the manifold and I was driving down the main road up there I'd come out of the woods kind of like Gary said while ago I was driving along it was about dusky dark and I could just see an illumination inside the Volkswagen Baja

bug and I turned out looking the whole back console behind the back seat was on fire oh wow and I slid it off the road run over and went to getting dirt out the ditch and I finally got it put out but it melted the motor and everything it was trash after that all they darned so three out of six of us here have had vehicles burn mine being the least have you ever had anything burn no rusty Johnson never had one burned down no wow you're like I said I got the fire put out but it done trashed it burned all the wire and everything and I'm not asking it I'm not talking about This is a podcast on secrets. Is Burgundy not red?

I mean, no. No. No. Burgundy is like dark purple. That's red. Yeah. Burgundy is Burgundy. That's why they call it Burgundy.

One more story that's relevant to the time, okay? And then we're going to actually get in there and start talking about this podcast, because I've got a few things I need to draw out a rusty moat. Good luck. So today is February 1st, February 14th, it's Valentine's Day. We're recording this on Valentine's Day. This would come out on February 15th.

February 13th, does anybody know what February 13th is? It's a day before Valentine's Day. Yesterday, the day before Valentine's Day. Dad will know, you wouldn't know this. But in my house, February 13th is Jackhammer Day. Jack Hammer Day. When I was, do you remember? No.

When I was a junior in high school. when I was a junior in high school one day I went and I had baited some hogs Jack Hammer like the Broadhead Well just wait 24 years ago

Come down Josh Was it 24 years ago Was this year in high school Aren't you 40? You're 40? Or your... It was my first junior year Aren't you 40?

I'm 42 Oh okay Well then it was 26 years ago Yeah Yeah yeah You're older than you look So Hey that was a compliment

I thought he was digging on me No, that was a compliment. Oh, thanks, Moe. That was nice. I was a junior in high school, and I had baited some hogs down on some land, and I'm not going to tell you where it was. And what I had done was I had dug a hole in the ground about probably 18 to 20 inches deep and about probably 20 inches wide, so envision a circle hole in the ground.

The hole was near a creek. and the creek was in a big flat hardwood bottom and there was a the ground came up out of the creek and was flat for about 20 yards and then had like a 10 to 12 foot steep rise and then it flattened out again so it was like a secondary floodplain if that makes that make does that make sense yep you'll see this in a like a steep bank like a steep bank well what I did was I put that hole about 15 yards from the rim of the higher bank so that I could walk up and peek over the bank down to the creek to this hole in the ground. Bushwhack the hogs. Okay, that's exactly right. So I filled that hole with corn. And we didn't have trail cameras or anything back then. I mean, just nobody was using trail cameras.

And I even raked out the leaves about 50 yards going up to where you look over the edge. so that I could walk without making any noise. And I set the trap and just waited, you know, I can't remember if I waited four or five days or how I knew that there were hogs in there. I may have just been guessing that they would be there. And this is the kind of dad Gary Newcomb was. The night before, I just had an inkling that it was the day to go.

And I said, hey, I'm not going to go to school tomorrow. I'm going to go hunt those hogs. Do you remember that? He's shaved a dead note. He probably didn't even tell him. I did. I really did. I just told him I was like I'm going to hunt hogs and because I remember the next day being in the classes that I missed. For some reason I vividly remember the look on one of my teacher's faces. He wasn't angry. I just remember it. Just disappointed. So I go down there, get there just after daylight and it just worked like clockwork. I walked in those the leaf where I'd scratch the leaves back and I'm carrying a 65 pound pool, high country, what was it, high country,

ex caliber, with hatchet cams, shooting about a 500 grain era. And at that time, we were shooting jackhammer wasp broadheads, which is an expandable broadhead. And at the time it was like, I mean,

we just were shocked at how good they killed deer. Right, Dad? Absolutely. I mean, just, because we were coming out, you know, those were some, that was kind of the first gen mechanical head. some that I got from you back then. I bet you do.

Did you ever shoot Jack Hammers? No. Yeah. Well, so Rusty was, that was kind of a judgmental no. Rusty was like, no, I never shot Jack Ambers. His beard's a WMA. What do you think? I think he shoots Jack Hammers?

Mo, did you ever shoot mechanical broadheads? You don't shoot mechanicals and recurves and longbows. That's right. That's right. That's the ultimate, like, slap. he's like big men real men don't use mechanical brought in well no they did real good with with deer and i i walk up over this rise just after daylight i didn't hear hogs i just was just i wonder if they're there and man i raise up over the little bank looking down and and there is a big big hog with his head

completely submerged in that hole. I mean, just like, I mean, he can't see me. He's down there crunching corn. And I mean, here I am. And I'm just like, holy cow, it worked. You know, I'm just a kid, you know, like 16, maybe 17. You're very excited at that moment.

And he's standing there broadside. I think it was 18 yards. And so, I mean, I had an air knocked. I was ready. I drew that bow back and just put it right behind his shoulder and shot. And man, that era looked like it bounced off of him. The era just stuck him right where I was aiming, just right behind the shoulder, just like I would have shot a deer.

And he literally kind of grunted and just plowed, you know, just disappeared, you know. And within 10 yards of that hole, that era was laying on the ground. And I just was in shock. I mean, it just more or less bounced off of the hog. And I walked down there and it had about how much penetration. I remember that so well. We've got a picture of it. I mean, probably three inches of penetration.

Just to hit him in that big shield. Oh, yeah. See, you trusted your dad. It's like Tyler at the time. I told him how to jump a sand dune and it almost killed him because he did it exactly the way I said. I told Clay how good those jackhammers were. you trusted me well that was the beginning point

of us learning that you couldn't shoot those hogs right behind the shoulder especially with an expandable head and not a big hog I mean it was a big hog I mean it was a 300 plus pound hog I believe based upon the track and I was pretty good at judging them

judging their weight by track back in those days and anyway jackhammer day because listen this is all coming back around I know you are just like where is this going where is he taking us listen the next day I go to a young lady's house

who I happen to be courting her name was Misty Does Misty know about her? That's why Misty's not here today It's also the story This is confession time Misty had made a vow Not long before that

That she would never marry a hunter And this was early in our relationship and I recounted the story of what had just happened to me, just like the day before. And she had never heard anyone tell a hunting story. And it immediately, she was like, I like this. I'm in love. I can live with this.

Can you believe that? That is a great Valentine's story. Jack Cameron Day. Jack Cameron. And so last night, last night while we're at church, She texted me in the meeting. Okay, yep, it happened. And she said, happy Jackhammer Day.

She remembered all on her own. There you go. I wondered if she would. You need to get one of those jackhammers and, like, put it in epoxy, like clear epoxy so she can keep it on her chest. Shaped in a heart. Shaped in a heart. Apoxy shaped heart.

Now that's, if that's not romance, I don't know what it is. I mean, either. So I had to tell that story on Valentine's Day. Last spring, Clay Newcomb and I collaborated with Jason Phelps at Phelps Game calls and building each of our own favorite turkey diaphragms called prime cuts. Now, I'm going to tell you, I love mine because it's easy to use. I'm not going to go, I'm not going to win a turkey calling contest. It's just not going to happen.

But when I run this call, I get the sounds that gobblers are looking for. I have a great turkey hunting track record. If you go listen to real turkeys out in the woods, they're not going to win calling contests, right? That's who I listen to. I can make those sounds on my. cut. I also hunt with Phelps's cut and I hunt with Clay's cut because they're

all three great cuts. Check out prime cuts at Phelps game calls.com. I think you'll be glad you did and you'll find out that the Steve Rinella cut is an easy-to-use cut for beginning callers who just want to start making good

turkey noises and getting action. All right, Mo, so you were really in the dark on what I was doing with this podcast. you just kind of trusted me. Yeah. Was my trust?

I've made that mistake several times. Don't say mistake. Was my, did I pull through on being trustworthy? Or were you like, doggone it? Pin me in the court. So that's why I had you here. So you could, anything that I made you look like, you can defend yourself now. Defend myself, huh?

If you're like, well, no, it was all okay, then we're fine. Well, I guess most of it was. Most of it. Yeah, you didn't tell me all the truth. of the of what was going on when we first started okay okay yeah yeah you first told me you know that our voices was going to be disguised nobody to know who we were anything yeah and then the podcast comes out and you introduce us I thought well he didn't do anything he said he was going to do so other than that it was pretty good yeah hey at least you knew you were being recorded it has

happened before snuck it in their recordings oh I did a whole podcast just okay rusty do you feel like you've been cheated in any way by me no but you know whenever you asked me to do it uh i didn't know i mean i ask you how could i prepare you know is there anything i can do to prepare oh no it's it's going to be easy typical clay nukem it's going to be easy don't worry about it it's going to be easy but no it it turned out pretty good i mean you caught me off guard on a couple but yeah well actually i i could i've got some some dirt i mean i could release the full episodes of these. I talked to these guys for like an hour. But remember if you do that, you got to release the stuff that I asked you that you got put on there either. Moe,

turned the tables after a while. He was like, hey, what about you? Thank you, Mo. Then he says, then he says, then Clay says, well, no, this is going to be on the podcast. Don't worry about it. We don't need to talk about it. So, yeah, I bet he did. Scramble there for a minute, didn't he? Well, I did put at the end, Dan interviewing me. Yeah. So I thought that was fair. Yeah, but he don't know you as well as like me and Rusty and Josh and us do. So what, what, what, what'd y'all think of the podcast? I thought it was, I actually didn't know where the podcast was going in the beginning. And I thought it was really good because, you know, I had a great talk with Keith about about this stuff because there, there's a lot of guys that are real.

secretive about stuff. I have had a different upbringing inside of hunting and fishing especially that I feel like I've had, I almost feel an obligation to share what I know because I know so many people have shared with me. So, you know, I think being able to foster a love for being outdoors and hunting and fishing, sometimes Trump's keeping it secret. But, you know, that's coming from me from a totally different experience in life with Yeah. So you're coming from a very like kind of quote unquote healthy hunting background.

Clay is like an abused child. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Undereducated, abused. But it was interesting that Keith texted me because he hadn't heard the podcast. Oh, okay. And he said, hey, I was just wondering I'm going out to Beaver Dam. And I'm just wondering if you had any spots that you would feel comfortable sharing. I was like, well, I was like, well, I'm about I go with you and if I feel good about it, I'll show you a couple of spots. You know, I think it's possible some people, I heard some people's comments on it and I don't think they really listen to the whole podcast. So what we did here was we used hunting just as an entry point to talk about the way people manage information they have, you know. So like, yeah, we talked about hunting secrets. And that was kind of what. it we used.

But really, we were looking at, you could have made that podcast about tennis. Yep. It's how we share information and why we share information. Or why we don't. Or why we don't. And who we share it with. And, you know, it really was a study for me

because it happened just the way I said it. I was sitting in a tree up here on November 1st, and I had a picture of this big deer. And there was nothing more that I wanted to do. I mean, like, I'm like scrolling through my phone trying to find somebody to send it to that I hadn't. And I'd send it to very few people. I'd send it to probably everybody in this room.

I'd share it with Moe and Rusty. And told you all different versions of that story of where it came from. All different versions of where it came from. This is a public land deer in Kansas. This is a, no, I'm just kidding. No. But, and I was just like, this is weird.

And I had, it's not like the first time I've ever thought of this. We share stuff with people because we want, I mean, we like to share something with like-minded people. But really, it's deeper than that. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it is a request for friendship. If you really think about it. And that's what Dan did such a good job of describing. and just kind of going back into human psychology. And it's like, we trade information for stuff.

And that stuff is friendship. And we want to trust people. Like, I want to be able to send Rusty a picture. And it's like, hey, I'm giving you something that I can trust you. You want to, but you can't. I really want to, Rusty. But, Dad, what did you think about it? You know, it was very revealing, even though I think deep down most of us.

realize why we share information in my thoughts on it change a you know off and on like I just had the thought that we share for entertainment I get this with some of my writing buddies where you know one goes hey man I'm right in the middle of a business deal I'm not I just can't talk about fun stuff I mean that's the exact words I don't have to talk about fun stuff. So we'd love to share. I can't wait to tell him something that I've done with my machine.

You know, I want to talk about it. So it's really fun. It's like you take a trip and people say preparation is as much fun as your vacation. And a hunting trip especially. You're preparing. You're shooting your bow. You're getting your equipment. You're buying this, you're buying that.

You're getting right. That's as much. fun is going out there and sitting in a tree for five or six days and not seeing a deer you know i mean so there's a social aspect i'd be interested to see what you say about that but that's entertainment and most of that entertainment i think is survival you know i'm trying to survive i'm gary newcomb i'm trying to survive i got to have mental health physical health i can just go to spiritual i can just go down the list i need all that to be healthy and to be healthy i got i can't be be taking care of Dan Roop.

I got to take care of me. None of us can. So, yeah. So, you know, we do things to make each of those aspects of our life stronger. You know, I want to build my image up in Dan's eyes so he will respect me more. I want to show him a picture of this deer so he'll know for sure that I'm probably a better hunter than Clay. You know, I mean, so everything you said, I agree with.

Where would you put the entertainment, though? But you didn't put the entertainment in there. That's because I'm not very good. But just even as you're saying, entertainment makes me think, you know, a lot of times entertainment, we can kind of talk about it. It almost has like a negative connotation. Oh, you're just wasting your time on so much entertainment or we'll go to some kind of entertainment to distract ourselves

from what we really need to be doing. But sharing things that bring us joy has immense amount of value. I mean, that's really what entertainment is. Is that not relationship building? And that is relationship building. I think that would be like a subcategory because you're not sharing entertaining stuff with someone that you aren't, that doesn't have some interest in what you're doing. Absolutely.

And you're trying to say, man, I need somebody that'll laugh with me today. And you, and it's more than if social media is kind of pseudo identity validation, I get a like. I kind of feel better, but also don't. Like. Rusty. I knew that was going. So I knew that was he even looked at you grippy, that curly beard. I know why they call you curly.

But like Rusty Johnson, WMA. WMA. But, you know, like watching a TV show, that's one thing that's entertaining, but going out and sharing an experience in the real world that you both value and you both derive joy from. And that's true entertainment and it builds true, you know, really deep relationships. So there's a ton of value. You know, I would say, and I'm building off what you're saying,

because there are plenty of, it's not like, yeah, this was like an exhaustive look into human psychology. But entertainment would be, or just having fun is a massive part. I mean, I am friends with people that I have fun with. Yeah. I mean, I'm friends with very few people in a deep way that I don't enjoy and laugh with them. I mean, you know.

And I think because if you're going to have fun with somebody, you've got to be able to relax. And it's almost as if whatever kind of facade you put up, wherever you go, to think you've got to be a certain way when you're around somebody that you can really let your guard down. I feel like to take off that stick on mustache, Dan. I feel like if I could let that guard down, then I could really enjoy something. And I only let that guard down with certain people. And so maybe the real secret is like me being myself. You know, and I reveal that to certain people.

And then I can really enjoy, you know, whatever it is we're doing. Yeah. We love to tell stories. I mean, it's, if I've got a good story, I mean, it's, I can't hardly, like when you were going, Dad, I want to hear something from you. I didn't, I didn't get too excited about telling about the fire. I was thinking about some other stuff I'd love to tell, you know. But I can't.

I mean, it's, it's, it's, it does something internally. you just like it. You know, you're the center of attention. You're just doing what you want to do. So I think that's real important in our lives is to have something to say that has meaning to other people and you can get their attention. Yeah. What gives it value is that when you tell a story and we tell you, yeah, that was a great story.

You just in whatever way we do that, you know. Right, right. That is really meaningful. It validates identity. It really does. When I stand up and tell a story and you guys laugh, it reinforces to me that I am who I thought I was. Yeah. You know, I mean, that's just the truth.

You know what I'm saying? You know, the way that gets away from secrets. But the secret could be I'm doing that to build myself up in Rusty's eyes. He doesn't know me, you know, so I'm trying to tell a story to impress him that, hey, this is really a good guy. Or this guy's a great hunter or whatever. Just don't go right. So most things are real selfish, you know. Rusty, what did you think?

Well, I mean, I had fun doing it, but I got kind of a story, too. So after the podcast, my son, Rustin, he's like, Dad, he said, you know, you've taught me a lot of stuff. And he said, I've mainly picked it up by just watching you. He said, you are so secretive. You're so used to keeping everything such a secret. You don't even open up to your own son. He said, why not?

He said, you should, of all people, you should open up to me about everything that you know. Everything that you know. So this got real. Yeah. And? I said, you got a good point. I mean, I want to be so secretive about all this stuff that I neglect my own son. Now, just to clarify, on the podcast, you talked about how.

your son, who I know and is a friend of mine, Rustin, is that your adult son, he's, how old is Rustin? He's 25. 25. I mean, you guys hunt together like your, I mean, like best friends. Yeah. I mean, y'all hunt. So y'all, he's not talking, you're not keeping hunting secrets from him.

Oh, look at the hesitation. I mean, I don't. I mean, it's not like your, I mean, you're sharing deer. So what, tell me what he's talking about. Just like, certain, like, strategies. and, you know, why do you do this or why do you not do this? He says that I don't explain myself. You know, if I'm doing something, I'm just expecting him to watch and figure it out on his own.

He's critiquing your communication mechanism. He's not saying, Dad, you're withholding me because you're afraid. Yeah, he's just saying you're so used to not communicating, you're not communicating with him. I'm not purposely withholding information from him. And my dad was the same way. He did not purposely withhold stuff, but I mean, he was, he didn't communicate. He was so secretive of a guy that he would not just open up and just freely communicate verbally to what he was doing and why he was doing it.

I had to really watch, and it took years of watching him doing what he does. And our friend Dalton, he says the same thing. He's like, man, he said, I've picked up so many things just by being around you without you even having to say anything, you know, I've learned a lot basically through osmosis, you know. Mm-hmm. But Rustin's like, man,

he said, you need to just open up to me and just tell me everything and explain everything. Just open up. And I mean, I find myself not doing that when I should be doing that, especially to him. Yeah. It does say a lot that he feels like he can say that to you,

you know? I mean, I think that says it done. He wants to, you guys are obviously close but the fact that he could say that means he just wants even more of you yeah yeah i mean this podcast is actually i mean it's opened my eyes to some stuff like that that that i think's going to help me and him that's good man yeah

mo what'd you think just in general just general i mean did it and uh i've had several texts i've even talked to a couple of my friends and you know they said uh that's very interesting said uh we didn't realize that you know You were holding out on it? Yeah, like a couple of them told me. They said, what have you not told us about? Or what have you not showed us a picture? I said, well, you probably never know because if I haven't showed you by now, I'm not going to or tell you either one.

So we had some pretty good laughs about that. Like I said, in person or on the phone or even by a text message. They've been several people with my friends, my hunting friends, and even some of my work friends that listen to it and stuff. Now, I know that you and your wife hunting fish together. Are there pictures of game on your phone that you won't show your wife? I don't think so. Okay. Just checking.

Just checking. It is Valentine's Day. Yeah. You better show it. Hey, baby, I want to show you a picture of this buck. I'm just saving this one. She doesn't deer hunt a lot. She likes to go when the weather's nice and stuff like that.

She don't like the cold weather and stuff. I don't figure. I can't figure out why wives are so contingent on the weather. Because my wife's the same way. Her favorite thing to do is, her favorite thing to do is turkey hunt. She loves turkey hunt. That's how I met Moe, turkey hunting on the youth. Yeah, years ago down by a spot we won't reveal.

That's right. And he's a heck of a turkey guide. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Dan, what was your overall take of it? I mean, you were on the podcast. Yeah.

But any thoughts afterwards? No, similar to Rusty. How do you feel like you did? Okay. Actually, similar to Rusty. So I've got, if my daughter was ever interested in, it would be awesome. But I've got three sons. who to varying degrees are right now they're 16 14 and 12 and to varying degrees you know we've

just been back in the states functionally to kind of hunt for about a year and um i think after even talking it out loud with you and then thinking about it and realizing how much of how important it is to me like what happens inside of me when i hunt and i do what i do i've never wanted to force anything especially on my boys i wanted them to feel like they could kind of to decide who they were for themselves and if they wanted to do something like I do, that's great. But if not, that I'm going to, in a way, kind of with that kind of stuff that I deem as like entertainment, what Gary said, or kind of like almost like a hobby, I don't want to shove that down there, you know, who they are. But I think, so one of the things that I'm going to do is

this summer over the summer, I'm going to get set up to where I can take my boys out in a tree with me. You know, I've only been hunting back in the woods for a, this is my first fall back in the woods after being gone for a long time. But I just think, man, I got to get my boys out there. They got to have this opportunity because it's way more. It is entertainment and it is a hobby and it's fun, but it's also part of who I am. And my boys will want that. And I want to give them the opportunity to try it about sending them with Rusty.

That beard, have you seen it? There's no way. That beard's got more secrets than all of us have been our anywhere. I think I've seen part of a hog wall a fall out of a while ago. No, that's my main kind of, like, that's a big part. I mean, it's a huge part of who I am. And my boys, I don't know how much they know that. And I know if I don't, that there will come a day when, I mean, you've shared a ton

with your son clearly. But I know my boys, there will come a day when they're like, hey, why don't you? So, like, that's my top priority this summer is getting set up to where when, you know, I'm white tails. I'm not much of a buck hunter. I really dial in on the dose. That's good. I can say something to you.

I've taken a lot of young kids for their first turkey hunt, their first deer hunt, bear hunts. Yeah. You know, cousins, nephews, stuff like that. And unlike what Rusty was talking about his son, that's something I'm pretty secretive with my hunting buddies and stuff. you know, but when it's the youth I've got with me, I find myself sharing a lot of stuff. I'll tell them, you know, I've done this because, or we're doing this because it helps us do this or helps us stand the chance of doing this. But I also learned that to keep them interested, no matter what, you got to, when you're

hunting with the youth, whether it's your kids or somebody else, you've got to keep it fun for them. Yeah. When they're ready to go, I don't care if there's three deer walking in front of your blind out there, let's go. Let's go. Because if you get them, you get them wore out on it, they don't, they come disinterested in it. So I thought I'd put that in, Benji said, that's great. That's great.

You know, I think, I think the main thing is that, and I hope what a podcast like this would do would just get people thinking, you know, just kind of thinking about why we do the things we do. Because I've said it so many times on Bear Greece that I'm very interested in the things that drive us that we don't, make decisions about, you know, we don't, and I think that self-awareness is pretty important. So regardless of if somebody comes to the conclusions that we did, or maybe their situation is slightly different, but the idea is that it would make people think and just kind of become more aware of why you do what you do, because there's always reasons why we do what we do. And we just kind of flow on autopilot. And, you know, so we talked about social media.

And I'll probably end up talking about this more later on some other podcasts because I think it's so interesting. But, you know, the social media stuff really is a new human experience. Excuse me. A new human experiment really is. I mean, when you think about we are extremely primitive. beings. And I mean that in the most literal way. I mean, we live in this modern world, and there's things that humans have done for thousands and thousands and thousands of years

that have made us the way that we are. And we're now doing a whole bunch of new stuff that we've never done before. And it truly is, it's like, who knows what should the earth persist another 50 years will be like, holy cow. that Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok was like crack cocaine and literally rotted our brains out. I mean, I'm exaggerating. But we don't know the consequences of a lot of the stuff we're doing. And I mean, that's just the truth. And it might sound far-fetched, but it's actually not.

You know, you look back at all kind of stuff that humans have done that in the moment they, you know, didn't understand. And obviously, you know, it would be more social consequences, you know. But we really didn't even scratch the surface of it. We just kind of introduced this idea of validation and identity as it relates to social media. And, you know, some people can, you know, if the shoe fits, wear it, if it doesn't, don't. But what do you think, Josh? You're trying to build a social media empire? Oh, it's coming along too.

Put a kink in your tail? No, I think I'll be okay. If I wake up in the morning and all my followers are gone, I think I'll be okay. Yeah, yeah. It is interesting, though, that you see so many people, like the term influencer now. I mean, it's just thrown around and it's like a status symbol. And really, you know, when you think about it, and when you think about the things that really matter in life, you know, I do want to influence people with my life. but I also want to come in contact with people.

I want people to know who I am, not just what I portray. And so I think the relational aspect of things is way more important to me than a picture I put on Instagram or Facebook. And, you know, it just in the simple example with Keith, you know, I've never met Keith until this weekend. We've communicated on Instagram. And when he messaged me, I said, man, let's go together. and because that's what's really valuable to me. And I think those are the things that are going to help you. I mean, we have an epidemic right now of mental health and relational disconnection.

And to be able to spend time with people and to share life, that's what's really valuable. And I think it's great. What Rustin shared with you, Rusty, just, hey, Dad, I want more. Basically, he's saying, I want more of you. I don't want just the information. I want more of you. And to have your immediate relational sphere reach out to you like that means a lot. It's a huge win.

Yeah, exactly. How many dads would kill to have their sons say that? And then how many sons would kill to have a dad that they feel like they could say that to? Well, I think it's phenomenal. Well, the only thought I have, and I sure don't know the answer to it, is why do I want to be on Instagram? Am I trying to create an image of myself to other people? I mean, I find it entertaining. Why do people want to be on Facebook?

What are we doing? I mean, what's the deal? And we all do it. It's apparently in all of us, this experience that you're talking about, this experiment we're going through. Yeah. I mean, it's, who would have ever thought people would want to put their life out there in front of everybody to look at?

Of course, you have the ability to pick what you put. I remember when Facebook, I remember us making fun of Facebook, like people saying, man, people are like putting like, oh, I'm washing clothes today. Yeah, remember when Facebook, like when you got on it, when it first came out, it would say like Josh Spielmaker is. And then it had the blank. And I just always felt like, who in the world would care that I'm doing the laundry right now? Yeah.

And I think, like what you said earlier, Gary, like, what makes us want to do that? It's the same thing. Like, you've got a really good story you want to share. And if I know I've got a really good story and I'm halfway decent, it's sharing it. I love sharing it because I know the buddies that I share it with, I'll have the room. And I'll have that feeling like they like me, they validate me. I'm as cool as I would like to think I am, at least for a moment. And I think there's a twinge of that inside of every time I've got something.

I actually think if I put it on Instagram. somebody might like it. Oh, this will be cool. It's that same kind of moment before I'm going to tell this story to the little group that I'm in. But now it's so much easier to do because a picture to me is easier to post than actually like saying something. It's a digital version of what is happening inside of relationships. I mean, like, you know, when I go to Instagram or Facebook, like I am just exponentially increasingly increasingly. increasing the amount of people that hear about my fishing trip, my deer, my turkey,

or what I did with my family. And professionals have that. But the average lady sitting in a home or me sitting in my home, I'm not too sure we're not trying to cultivate a healthy image of ourselves. I mean, I never show a picture of my stuff I like when it's dirty. You know, I mean, it's always clean and shiny. And so, I mean, I think we're trying to create something that, you know, there's a little truth to it. I will say, look at my Instagram, it's nothing but does on there.

I'm posting them, boys. I'll post what I. Bros and do's. That's exactly. Hey, but even the professionals on Instagram, and I'm pointing to Clay, they're doing the same thing. They're putting an image on there and they're, it's cleaned. Oh, you're just something. They're branding themselves to make more money.

I think we're branding ourselves. We're all so much alike. I'm so much like the Clovis people. Yeah. I mean, it hadn't changed much, really. And, you know, we're all pretty much a lot. We've been telling stories and trying to grab the room since the beginning of time. And now we just have a little different way of doing it.

It's Facebook or its Instagram. Who knows what it'll be in a decade. But it's still, we're trying to tell a story and get recognition. and form a kind of community around ourselves. Same song. You know, the stuff you see in caves, I mean, it's like, look at this big buck I killed. Yeah, exactly.

They didn't draw those on the cave. No, they didn't. I do not like Rusty. Big bison. Hey, I had a guy this week send me a replica fulsome point, but it was a, it's not stone. It's a 3D printed Folsom Point.

As I understand it, he was there when it was found. Yeah, I don't have it in my hand. Wait, he found a 3D? Wait a minute. He found. As I understood it, he found, he was with somebody when they found a real Folsom point. I mean, just an incredible Folsom point.

I'll show it to you guys later. And it's super thin. I mean, just like, as thin as the bill of that hat. And when you just look at every single angle on it, the fluting on it is concave and just beautiful. And anyway, he sent me a really nice letter. His last name's Bender. I've got to get around to, he wrote me a letter.

I wish you to give me his email address. Yeah, hand, it was beautiful. People still do that. Man, he did. And he knew I'd read it. And I did. but it was really it was really cool yeah too bad you don't know how to write i know i don't even know where the post office is in this town um hey okay march the fifth if you want to talk about

bears bear hunting in this part of the world mid-america the the the southern highlands come to Rogers, Arkansas, March the 5th. Mo's going to be there. Josh will be there. I don't know, maybe Dan will be there. I'm going to try. It's called Black Bear Bonanza. Arkansas BHA is putting it on.

And we're going to, it's going to be, it's a real deal lineup. We're going to have a Black Bear Biologist panel. I'm pretty sure the Arkansas Bear Biologist Myron Means will be there. I believe Laura Conley. The Missouri bear biologist or, yeah, large carnivore biologist up there will be there. And probably somebody from Oklahoma. And I'm going to be there. We're going to have an Al-Hooten contest.

Man, I would drive across the country to go to a real live Al-Hooten contest. Yep, you're going to have to compete against Mo Shepard. I'm not even stepping up to the plate. Hey, I'm going to give you, I'm going to give a foreshadowing sneak peek that'll blow your mind. Two days ago, I was in Will Primost house, and we al-hoooted. He al-hoooted for me, I al-hooed for him. And what was his feedback? I'm not going to tell you what it was said.

Have you improved lately? I'm probably the same. I found out-houters don't improve much. They just kind of either have a day down. You plateau. Yeah, you plateau out. But how about that? That's pretty cool.

You'll see it. That's pretty cool. Trust me. You'll see it. How old is Will Primus? How old is Will Primos? He'll be 70 years old. Should we say his age?

I mean, we're just telling all. Yeah, I know. You can keep some secrets. I mean. He was young when I was young. He was young when he was. So I'll just leave it there. That was the foreshadow.

So March 5th come. It's an all-day event. I think we're going to try to render some bare fat. There's a lot of stuff going on. Where's it at? It's at the Quail Barn and Rogers Arcton. It's like an event center type deal. Number two, as we're closing down,

you can buy bare grease hats now on the meat eater.com. Man, they were out of stock for like four months, and they just came back in. I ordered mine another day. My wife ordered mine for me. Good. Or where's the panther hat, man? Man, you know what?

Sometimes promises don't come through as quickly as you'd like them to. And I have nothing to do with that. that unfortunately. They're coming. Yeah, we're going to have some believer. It's got a black panther on it. You got a believer.

You're a believer of. And it's going to happen. So that's going to happen. There's also some bear grease shirts. There's one that says Acorn, and it's got an acorn with a big mustache and it says Bear Grease. It's a cool shirt.

It's a great shirt. It is a good little bit. There's also a shirt. Those are on the website. Yeah, those are for sale. You can buy those right now. There's a shirt that. It has a mason jar of bear grease, and it says bear grease, and it has lists all the things

you can do with bear grease. And there's another one that I haven't promoted that's a big barred owl flying through the air, and it says, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, barred owl, like a quote. You see what I'm saying? That's awesome. Yeah. That's awesome.

Anyway, barred owl, bear grease, and then the acre and church. So you can check all that out. Thanks guys. Hey, I hope it was clear that the reason I could interrogate these guys like I did is because these are two of the best deer hunters that I know, bar none, for sure. So that's the only reason I can manhandle these guys. It's an honor to be in the room. You don't know all that many hunters in, do you?

No, you guys, both of you guys, for sure, at the very top of the heap of my book for this part of the world, for sure. So thank you guys for being a part of the podcast. Enjoyed. Thank you for the kind of word. Yeah. Rest you, Doe hunters. Good luck.

Do hunters and the four-inch track catchers. Hey, Dad, did you have, you want to tell us that story you were dying to tell? No, not really. Not really. You know, the thing that I enjoy the most right now is just, you know, getting out in the wilderness in a side-by-side. So, you know, but no. No.

You're done. I'm done. I'm done. Secret. You have to wait. Getting out of the wheel and wait on that. Burn to side by side of the ground. Burn to the ground.

You want to see that picture. It's on my Instagram. I've looked at a few times. Thanks, guys. On Blood Trails, the stories don't end when the hunt is over. They just get darker. I've seen something in the road. I instantly thought it was a sleeping bed.

And there was a full of blood. Oh, my God. He doesn't have a hit. Blood trails. is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors. Where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce, and the truth gets buried under brush and silence. Indications were he should be right there, but he wasn't.

This season, we're going deeper, from cold case files to whispered suspicions, from remote mountains to frozen backwoods. Each story begins in the wilderness and ends in darkness. Because out here, there are no witnesses, no cameras, Just fragments and the people left behind trying to piece them back together. He's not an honest person. He's incapable of being honest. Somebody somewhere knows something.

I'm Jordan Sillers. Season 2 of Blood Trails premieres April 16th. Follow now on Apple, Iheart, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.