Bear Grease - Ep. 423: Render - Villines Logging

Episode Date: February 18, 2026

On this episode of the Bear Grease podcast, host Clay Newcomb along with Bear Newcomb and Josh “Landbridge” Spielmaker are joined by Bear Grease featured cousins Caylon and Cody Villines, as well as Waylon Villines. The Villines family has been logging Newton County, Arkansas, for generations, and they’ve got the stories to prove it. Join us as we talk about Ozark heritage, the transition from old-school timbering to the modern era, and the grit it takes to remain a woodsman in the 21st century. Thank you to our sponsor, Tecovas. If you have comments on the show, send us a note to [e-mail] Connect with Clay and MeatEater Clay on Instagram MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, and Youtube Clips MeatEater Podcast Network on YouTube Shop Bear Grease MerchSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. First Lights fieldware collection is made for the work that happens long before opening day and continues when the season ends. Products built for early mornings, full days and real use. Hard wearing where they need to be versatile where it matters. No shortcuts. Just gear designed for the work that earns the season.

Built to perform, built to last. Check out. First Light's new field. Worldware Gear at firstlight.com. My name is Clay Newcomb, and this is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called the Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual Bear Grease podcast. Presented by FHF Gear, American made, purpose-built, hunting and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. This is a great debate what to do right now. Do we stay in the heated conversation? Very interesting conversation we were having, but we would have to inform the listeners what we're talking to. Or do we just start off and tell who's here? Hard to say.

It's a roll of the dice. I'm going to start off. We're going to go in the middle. So I've got to my right, and I'm going to introduce him first, then I'll introduce the others. This is weird going this direction. Yeah, it is. But in the Tukovas hot seat is my friend, Kaelin Boulon. You guys just entered into, like, right in the middle of our conversation of when, like, when was it October the 3rd? Probably. I think, I think Kayla and I were bear hunting on October the 3rd, and he killed a really nice bear. I mean, I'd say 350. What did you think? What did we think?

I can't really remember what we settled on. I think you said for sure 325, so. Okay. A big old bore. Killed in National Forest. We just went hunting for a day and a half. And so we skin this bear in the woods, quartered it up, basically left, you know, a gut pile,

the hip structure. I mean, you know, like the pelvis and stuff, and some of the rib cage. Big pile of bear, though, left that. I, bear and I came back maybe even just five days later. And you could not have told that we skin that bear other than just some, you know, the leaves. It was just kind of a beat-down, greasy pile. But this is what I was about to tell you when these people interrupted us by turning the podcast on,

was there was bear trails coming in from two directions to that carcass pile, like, like, padded out like where they were stepping in the same tracks like they do and i don't know why i didn't think about it but i bet we could have killed another bear sitting on that carcass probably that real days later yeah yeah probably the one that run him out of the woods yeah yeah so when what happened i mean go ahead and you can just kind of quickly tell like you're hunting and happened. Basically, I walked into a bear fight and I didn't know it. Yeah.

Yeah, I heard the racket going on down there. I knew it was a bear, but I did not know what was going on. Were you hearing vocalize or just leaves crunching and popping? No, I could hear the vocalization. Yeah. I don't know what sound you call that, but... Right. Just woofing and chattering and huffing.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, so I... ease down there to get a closer look which I could just see the one bear but it was like postured up it got the coming off into that little draw blow me

you know where the water was at and I just let him come and he got about 20 and I shot him almost run me over come right up at me and I just turned behind my tree and let him go by how close do you think he actually got to you oh for me to bear

really that Oh, yeah. Like five feet. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So what happened is Kailen's, I saw right where it all happened, you know. He is this little, there's a dry creek bed, and then there's a steep bank that kind of goes up on a little mini ridge kind of. So it's almost like you're in a tree stand in a way.

Yeah. And you're shooting kind of down at an angle. And I think your era passed through that bear and hit the rocks on the other side of him. Oh, yeah. That scared him. Yeah. So the threat was from the opposite. side where the other bear was at okay that's where we're getting but the bear turned and ran

straight towards the shot right because you know the air clacking on the rocks was right bigger than the sound of the bow oh yeah yeah yeah and he didn't know i was anywhere around so right yeah but he just shoot straight up at you oh yeah i i shoot and reach you get another arrow well before i can get the other arrow I look up and he's there. I mean, he's already on me. So I just rolled behind my tree and he goes by and he makes a little loop and runs right back to where I shot him at. He hit the other side a little waist, didn't he? Run up the other side. Yeah. And I watched him die. Yeah. He just ran up and fell over. Deathmone. And I thought it was over. I got probably 20 yards of him, maybe, and just crouched down, waiting for him to die.

I got to hear another racket, the same vocalization, whatever you call that. And at this point, you've only seen one bear. You know you heard potentially, like what sounded like a fight,

but you didn't know they were two bears. Right, yeah. So I glance up on the hill and here comes one bigger than the one I just shot. And he's coming to that bear I shot. He doesn't know I'm around either.

So I, I let him get down to the bear, but I stand up, first just wave. That doesn't do it. He kind of glanced at me. Kept coming. So then I yell at him. I didn't do it. He's still coming, so I threw a rock at him.

And he finally turned and walked off. Did you hit him with the rock? No, I didn't hit him. No. How close did he get to the dead bear? 10 or 15 feet. I mean, he was pretty well to him. Wow.

Yeah, for I. Was it going? fight more? I think so. You should have waited to see what happened. Yeah. Yeah, Caleb. What were you thinking, man?

I was thinking that this bear has just whipped this 325 pound bear, so I know he can whip me. And he's still... Wait a minute, you're a logger. He's still mad, so... Yeah, after he wasn't really leaving, I left. I just went to the truck. Okay, now, okay, so you chunk of...

rock at him and what does he do? Oh he just kind of side hills and he drops off back into that creek where I just shot that one and then come to him. He didn't run. Oh no. He came up on my side and he's circling me. Oh wow. Yeah yeah I knew that. I knew that but it's like it's like he didn't he didn't spook like you would have thought no you would have thought the second he knew there was a man standing there that he would just yeah I thought he would yeah from the bears that I've been around and he did encounter it. I thought as soon as he realized you know there's a human here he's he's gone but no no he didn't how much bigger was he than the one you shot

notice he was noticeably bigger I mean like did it make you think the one you shot was small well I mean not small I knew it wasn't a small bear but but first glance I said oh my gosh I mean this bear is quite a bit larger than the one I just shot well I remember so well you I told you it looked like a bolt wagon coming off the hill.

Yes. Well, but it also it painted my perception of how big the bear that you killed was because Kalin shoots the bear, it's laying there dead, but this other bear is circling, and then he just goes, I'm out of here.

So he dives off the mountain and goes back to the truck. And I'm still off hunting, don't have cell coverage or any. Well, no, I didn't where I was at. I come out well after dark. well after dark and Kaelin goes, I got good news and bad news. And he's like,

I killed a bear, but it's still up in the mountain, on the side of the mountain. You know, and it's like, I don't know, it's getting dark at 7.30 that time of year. And so now it's 8 o'clock. And, you know. It's more like 9 o'clock. Probably. And how far back in was it? It wasn't terrible. It really wasn't

that far from the truck. It was quite a bit of elevation change, but... I had been a whole lot further that day. Yeah, he had made a huge loop and killed it on the way back to the truck. But I remember you telling me that you just thought it was an average bear. That's kind of what I... The picture that I painted because of this other one was so much bigger. And I actually remember telling you, I bet you shot a sow...

Yeah. And I bet you shot the smaller of two... because I couldn't figure out why there would be two even together. And I said, I bet you shot a sow and that other one was just a decent bore. And so we go up there in the dark, and the second I see his bear in the light, I just go, holy cow, that's a big bear you shot, Kalen. I mean, it's like a bore. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. I mean, a stomper. I mean, it might have, I mean, we're, I really try to be conservative with bear weight. because it's so easy just to be like, oh, that's a 400-pounder. It was a big bear, and it, no doubt, weighed 325. I mean, probably 325, 375 wouldn't surprise me, you know. So, I made a big one. And the picture you could tell how big he is because his paws are enormous.

I didn't even see the bear, but I could tell him the picture he's a good bear. Well, and then the way Kaelan... He had just been whipped by this other bear. That's right. and the bear looked so big. I mean, when you can tell a difference, I mean, a 50-pound difference between two bears standing side-by-side,

you almost can't tell the difference. Right. Like, they would almost look identical. A hundred-pound difference, you'd start to see a difference. 150-pound difference, and it's like, that bear's way bigger. But, I mean, I don't know.

I think it was a monster, the other one. Yeah, too. I mean, I'm not. I never had a doubt. You're the one with, no, I never doubted you for a second. He called me when he got back to the truck. He's like, you ain't going to believe what I was just done.

And I was just joking. What did you do? He was a knife. He said, no, but I about could have. And then he told me the whole story. And he said, that other bear was big. Yeah. Well, I was, just as the podcast started, I told Kalen,

I said, man, I think about that. that all the time. And partly because me and bear went back in there five to seven days later, and it was as if a bear had never been in those woods. I mean, because that same day, I had been over the mountain from you and had all but killed a bear. I mean, it was probably the closest I've been in National Forest to killing a bear, but not killing it. I'm sitting over a little waterhole and, you know, nine o'clock in the morning, I see a bear coming. I'm going. straight to the waterhole. Wind's good.

Everything's good. It's a color phase bear. Real pretty color phase bore. It wasn't very big. I bet it didn't weigh 190, 210 pounds maybe. I mean, just lanky, kind of tall, but chocolate brown.

And he's coming up this little dry creek to this little pool of water. And I'm in the same scenario as you, up on the side of a steep ridge. I mean, it was a deep draw like this on both sides, just straight up. He has no idea I'm there. He's walking, winds, thermals are carried up.

I mean, it's done. He's at 20 yards, and I stand up, and it's like I'm in a tree stand. And he, I mean, he's just about to walk out in front of me, and I'd draw the bow back. And I don't know why, but rather than staying in the creek and going to that waterhole, he just turns and starts going up the other side of the ridge from me. But he's going to walk right out in front of me. I don't even panic. I'm just like, no problem. Got the bow drawn, and I'm just waiting for an opening.

And, you know, he hits a couple of openings that you probably could have shot, but you shouldn't. But I just knew he was going to just stopping some opening up there. And anyway, he doesn't. He just walks straight up that mountain, and rather than veering towards the waterhole, he starts to veer more just, like, straight up. and he just kind of like just slips through my fingers you know and uh and i sat there the entire rest of the day entire rest of the day and uh 30 minutes before dark a bear came from the opposite a black bear came from the opposite direction and there was a whole water right in front of

me that was the main water and hole bear trails beat out to it but 30 yards up from this main main water was a real small pool of water about as, I mean, like two inch, three inches deep, just barely any water at all. And that bear, rather than coming to the main hole, drank water out of that hole. And I saw him just kind of lift up his head and kind of look around and I could just barely see him. And I kind of stood up. And he just kind of sat there by that water for a minute and then just turned and walked the way he came. And I tried to go after him. But anyway, it was a great day of hunting brought bear back in there and we did the exact same hunt day and a half and didn't get didn't even see one didn't find it I was that close to killing one 30 minutes after daylight

yeah yeah I saw three bear that one day yeah wow that was an unbelievable day of national forest bear hunting yeah and then it just it just was gone it just was completely gone quick you're gonna introduce the rest of us well that concludes the podcast for the day. This is a unique render. We have the guys that were on the last episode, American Loggers. Kalin Vlinds. This is the Kailen Velines that told, was main player on that.

To his right, wild-eyed. Intelligent. How did you feel about that description? The truth hurts. something. Oh man, I'm so glad you guys are here. The Josh is here.

And then the one who is going to validate validate or invalidate all these stories, the older brother of Kalin, Wayland Blinds, who, I'm told their father tried to name them Waylon and Willie.

So Kalin would have been Willie. That would have been epic. But their mother shut it down. Is that right? That's the story we was always told. No. And then we got Barry Newcomb,

Bear John Newcomb with us. Yep. So Bear brought a bow. He might show us. But, no, it's pretty rare for us to have the actual people that were on the episode. But I want to do something real quick before we get into the logging stuff is I've asked Bear to, tell us a little bit about a couple of things that are going on that are relevant with conservation legislation i want to be we're going to try to be a little more active and in the

stuff that we all know that's going on but like this boundary water stuff and then uh there was one of the thing going on in mississippi give us a highlight of those bears well the boundary waters is the the big event that i think everyone's been hearing about but basically they're trying to make it to where they're allowing foreign mining companies to come mine above the boundary waters and all the runoff of that is going to really affect the public land that we have access to. So overall, it's a bad deal. We don't want it to happen. But through hunters and anglers calling into their senators, they have postponed basically the day that they decide whether or not they're going to allow it or not.

So basically through the voice of the hunters and anglers that has changed what's happening inside of the government systems. Yeah. Because they were going to decide, I want to say it was two days ago. Like, a couple days ago. February 10th or something. Yeah. And because of how many people were calling in and emailing their senators, they've postponed

it because they're starting to see that. Do we know a future date when they're supposed to decide? That, I'm not sure. They just said they were going to do a more further analysis on the deal, and it'll come up again. It's come up, it comes up all the time. Like every couple of years, maybe, I mean, we were talking about this like a year ago. Yeah. But the boundary waters are on the border between Canada and Minnesota.

Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. And, but it's a big, huge federal wilderness. And, yeah, I mean, there's going to be stuff like this coming up more and more. But, yeah, but what we can take from this one is the fact that our voice inside of it actually changed. So far has actually changed what's going on. So keep calling.

Yeah, so keep calling and keep the pressure on the senators. It's like as we all know this, I mean, we hear it, but I mean, golly, we've just got to become more active in this stuff. And for example, tell us about this Mississippi bill, which has been kind of resolved, but it tells you what can happen. Yeah, well, the attempt was to eradicate all hunting with dogs. In Mississippi, unless it was on private land that was... 2000 acres of private land are bigger. That's the only... That's the only land that you can hunt with dogs on.

That's ridiculous. But that's including squirrel dogs, rabbit dogs, deer dogs, any sort of dog hunting. And so they wanted to take it out because it was not fair chase, was the argument. They called it the fair chase. It was crazy what they called it. Do you bear?

Do you remember what it was? Keep talking. Keep talking. I'm going to find it. Well, yeah. Basically, their point that they were trying to make was, if you're hunting with dogs, that's not fair chase. It doesn't fall within the fair chase rules and guidelines.

But the good news on that one is it got shut down. It got shut down. It was a house bill 828. And the good news is it got shut down, but this just goes to show you. These guys called it the Fair Chase Act. introduced to restrict hunting with dogs, limiting dog hunting to properties of over 2,000 contiguous acres, which essentially would shut down dog hunting, you know.

Yeah, no one has access to to their entire state. And you would feel like a state like Mississippi would be immune to this. And so far they've proven to be by the fact that the bill got shut down. But just the fact that that is even there just tells you that kind of stuff can happen anywhere. Yeah. So. And what is important is that even though we don't have a lot to do like with the, with the boundary waters in particular, like we hardly even know what state that's in. I've never been to the boundary waters.

But it's still important for me to call in to the senators because it's the, it's, even if it's not relevant to you, it is because eventually it's going to make it to you. If as they start to come for things at the bottom ring of the ladder, it's going to work its way up. So it's important to stop it now, call it into your senators now, before it reaches you. On Blood Trails, the stories don't end when the hunt is over. They just get darker. I've seen something in the road. I instantly thought it was a sleeping bag. And there was a pool of blood.

Oh, my God, he doesn't have a hit. Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors, where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce, and the truth gets buried. under brush and silence. Indications were he should be right there, but he wasn't. This season, we're going deeper, from cold case files to whispered suspicions, from remote mountains to frozen backwoods. Each story begins in the wilderness and ends in darkness.

Because out here, there are no witnesses, no cameras, just fragments, and the people left behind trying to piece them back together. He's not an honest person. He's incapable of the being. on us. Somebody somewhere know something. I'm Jordan Sillers. Season 2 of Blood Trails premieres April 16th. Follow now on Apple, I Heart, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

When I started learning about bear hunting with hounds, specifically the state I'm thinking of is Michigan. Like 10 years ago, I did some filming for the Michigan Bear Hunters Association. And what I learned was that they just have built into their culture that you have to fight for your rights to hunt. Like their kids, it was like it wasn't even normal. It wasn't even abnormal that they had, they were just like politically active. It was just part of being a bear hunter. And I think more and more in the days ahead, that's probably going to be what we have to do,

which I mean, as hunters, we're the people that just like want to people to just leave us alone. I mean, we're not the ones who are wanting to go get involved in stuff. That's our nature. But that's also the nature of people who get stuff taken away from them. I mean, I'm talking to myself because I mean, but I think in the future we're just going to have to be more involved. And the good thing is that there's a ton of organizations that are helping people get involved. I mean, like, on social media, there were so many groups that were. were giving you the number to call the White House switchboard.

Yeah. Ask for your senator. It's that easy. I mean, like, you call this number, say, I want to talk to the senator from Arkansas. Yep. And they take you directly to his office. Somebody answers the phone. You talk to them.

I mean, sometimes you feel like that may not be enough, and it may not be. Right. But it's something. So. I wrote, I wrote when that whole thing was going through, I sent an email to our, our senator. I mean, I got a response back, but I mean, it got to him. I sent a little video to my senator, and I took a piece of white sandwich bread and put it right here, and I put my fist there, and I put another piece of sandwich bread on top. And I said, Mr. Bozeman, this is what I'm going to give you if you'd vote wrongly for this.

And send a picture of that knuckle sandwich. I'm sure that was well received. just kidding guys just kidding everyone yeah don't indict him no i don't want to pick on bozeman he's he's he's he's a good guy yeah most people are like me they they take for granted what we're what we do i don't my hunting with dogs or whatever don't i've never seen it hurting anything and don't think nothing about it you don't think about somebody taking it away and then next thing you know you wake up and it's gone without it's hard to make a voice we've been through it you guys have had it taken away in your

lifetime yeah yeah in my lifetime i've seen it happen well tell us about that because i'm from the washtitals where we can still run deer with dogs and regardless of whether you think that's good or bad yeah i mean but we could still do it down there yeah it's a touchy subject but growing up dad always had beagles and we grew up hunting deer with the beagles i mean we didn't see it hurting anything uh and then the next thing you know it got shut down in the late 90s yeah i don't remember exactly what it was i just know i got to be part of it and i mean dad was always he was a dog man he likes to take the dogs and when they shut that down dad pretty much quit hunting until deer hunting anyways until me and him got started riding

a lot and doing it that way but yeah i mean he just got enjoyment out of his dogs and doing it like that but yeah that was that was in the back of my mind when he ends up talking about that i was like i mean we take for granted that just because we don't think it's hurting anything there there that do and if they got a bigger voice when most of the majority like me i feel that are just going to sit back and think well we're not hurting anything and let it go and then yeah well Yeah, I think it was the late 90s when they outlawed deer hunt with dogs in the northern part of the state. And as I understand it, it was the pet project of one of the commissioners that lived up here and didn't like deer dogs. And he knew he probably couldn't shut it down across the whole state.

And he wanted it shut down in this part of the state. And I mean, you know, 25 years later, people would hardly talk about it. It was for me, it was more than hunting. my dad's always been a hound man but mainly a running dog man it was more than shooting deer yeah it wasn't about shooting deer I mean

you were out there hung it was a way of life deer season was like bigger than Christmas way bigger than Christmas yeah and it was I mean it was a chase and you hear that all the time about anybody can kill one with a dog go try yeah i got tickled when bear was talking about the fair chase act yeah i'm like you ain't ever tried to kill a deer in front of the dog as far as deer i started hunting

with dogs that was just the way we hunted right uh not saying i haven't killed a lot of deer in front dogs but when they outlawed the dogs and i had to start still hunting uh I was like, this is easy. I mean, honestly, you thought it was easier. It was easier. Well, I started bo-hunting a lot when they outlawed the dog deal. Right. And at that time, there wasn't, the guys in our part of the world that bow-hunted were hardcore.

But there wasn't that many of them. Mm-hmm. No. Um, an early season, then, it was easy with a bow. I mean, it was just easy. Yeah. Compared to a set of Walker Hounds coming. And there wasn't no mack.

And he stopped. When you seen that sucker coming, you started shooting. And when you run out of shells, you either had a dead deer or they were gone. Yeah. Uh. nothing about that was easy was it fun most fun ever had

yeah it was the best way of hunting the camaraderie yeah uh everybody ganging up at whoever's house it might be that morning

coming up with a play and drinking coffee it was more than hunting it was a way of life yeah and like I wasn't said you know I would have been getting on up there as a teenager didn't really

realize what we had. Right. Until it was gone. Yeah. Yeah. All that's what runs through my mind when you was talking about that, just because there's more people like me that ain't going to say anything and wake up and what you should have been speaking up about is gone.

Yeah. And it's too late then. Yep. So yes, I fully agree that people need a voice and it can change things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For anyone listening that's interested, you can find all the information you need to at Backcountry

hunters and anglers. Yeah, that's a good one. They've got all the info for how to get in touch with your senator. Mm-hmm. Well, man, this, this, we're going to say something, Josh? We also want to talk about the Bear Grease Channel. Oh, yeah. Bear Greas Channel and we got a lot to talk about.

Yonis' new film. We're not going to be able to talk about logging. Sorry, Gus. I watched that video today. Our video. Man, so we have, so the 10-year, 11th, years ago, I started the Bear Hunting Magazine YouTube channel. At the time, I was

running Bear Hunting Magazine, started a YouTube channel, and we made videos for eight years. And that channel... Good videos, too, by the way. I started watching a few... Man, those almost had just drifted away from my consciousness

for so long. There's a big gap between the last one and... Five years. The one that got put out of the eyes. For five years, the channel has laid dormant. and yesterday we restarted it back up and we renamed it the Bear Grease Channel and so it's through Meat Eater I had some people saying

hey Claire did you quit meat eater? No I didn't quit meat eater this is this is through them which we're thrilled about it's a good deal for us and for them but he had that bear come along to take it off well and Bear's going to be the main guy on the channel

this first video you saw us Watch his videos anyway. Me too, man. Me too. But there's going to be weekly content dropped on that YouTube channel. And Bears already got a bunch of really cool stuff that he's done. Yeah, he killed a hog with his self-bow. He elk hunted.

He's been on a big falconry trip. Yeah. I'm excited for the falconry. We trap some hawks in Texas. I mean, legally. But it's YouTube-style content. Like the Meat Eater Mothership channel is like television type quality production. And it's, I mean, it's great.

It's fantastic. This is like YouTube native, like fast-paced. Yeah. Just like really showing you what's going on. Less production. Yeah. No music, stuff like that. And so, yeah, we're real excited about it.

It's going to be awesome. Yep. Yeah. So next week, well, there's a, there's a, film out right now. Yeah, squirrel hunting on mules came out yesterday. Well, by the time this podcast airs, there ought to be two or three videos up. What do you think is a mule slow trap, Kailan?

Do you see all that shooting? Pretty laid back. Pretty laid back. I would trade you. I have one. What do you got? I bet you would. Talk to me before you.

Hell. Well, he's three. Three. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, that mule literally didn't even flun. lynch the first i mean it you saw i was surprised but the one he's talking about i've shot off him so oh it might be so the backstory now you remember this i was going to send slow trap to whalen

yeah last summer i actually contacted wayland wayland trains we don't have it all set up dates book and everything he backed out of me to food right out of his mouth shucks no i was going to have wayland train slow trap and just and and then somewhere in And the process, Bear was like, I'd like to train it. And so I'd text away with him back and said, hey, sorry, man. And you haven't talked to him since? Yeah, yeah. That's why I brought you here.

Sorry about that. Left you hanging. That's all right. It was really awesome for Bear to get to. Oh, yes. And that's what when you told me that, I was like, that'll be a good one for him to start with. Just from the videos and stuff I'd seen on the meal, I kind of had him peg.

and I thought that'll be a good one to get his feet wet in. Yeah. Now he's hooked and we can send him something else. Yeah. Waylon's going to send you one now. Probably a crazy one. We'll see. Yeah, that's a...

That is a nice little mule. I wish it was taller. You got one like that. How big is he? I bet it's not 14 hands. Maybe 14. If he's 14, he's big enough. I know.

He's a 3-year-old. I mean, he's going to grow quite a big. He probably will. Will he grow that much after three? So Banjo, which is his half-brother, was still growing when I sold him at six years old. He grew a lot. How much could you expect him to grow? Another hand?

Maybe not quite that much. Maybe not that much. Dad always told us, boys, that they'd grow, a horse mule would grow until he's seven. Okay. I think it's a male. Yeah. It all depends. on the mule too.

Is there a difference between a John mule and a horse mill, just interchangeable words? We have a lot of words. Depends on who you're hanging with. We've only fed that mule grass hay too. I mean, we've fed it a little bit of grain here and there, but like it has not had. Ty Evans told me, he said, yeah, if you fed that mule alfalfa hay for a year, he said to probably speed the growth. Oh, yeah. But, I mean, the mule, the mule has free access.

I just bought a year and a half old. Well, I say just bought it's been a couple months ago now. A little younger than what I was planning on buying, but I can wait until May to start messing with him. But I got him thinking he'll be, I mean, you've had this discussion. I like a 14-14-2 hand meal. And that's what I thought he'll probably be that. Well, I put a stick to him another day, and he's already 14-1, I think.

So he's going to wind up being probably bigger than what I wanted. Bigger than what you want. But we'll see. but yeah he's grown a lot since i got him so we may do some trading i mean we'll talk later it's kind of turned into the mule swap shop here at the burglries render yeah the one he's talking about we can bring him up here and lead him in here like he's did that one other day yeah yeah yeah yeah well uh one other ticket item yonis putellis has a video coming out this week that um you should watch soon it's about his main

Manitoba bear hunt. But Janice is going to be with us on the next render. Did you know that? I heard rumor of that today. Yeah, he's going to be with us. So we'll wait to talk until then. But no, this episode, man, it was so good.

This logging episode. It really was. Yeah. It was, and the way it happened was I came to talk to Kalin and it's, and I didn't really plan. I mean, I thought we might talk to somebody else, but there wasn't too much planning involved in it.

And while we're sitting there at the global headquarters of the lines logging, which is the barn, it's a barn. Yeah, yeah, I hope that was clear. For those of you who didn't pick up on the sarcasm, the way you described it, the way you described it, it was being sarcastic? Yes, but at first I was like, I was kind of confused. It's like, Kaelan takes us to his corner office. Good, you needed to be confused for a minute.

thing you said about that, that was completely true, is a location. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's just a barn. But it is in a heck of a spot. It is. Yeah.

How wide is it? I guess it's 50 foot. That's 30 by 50 is what it is, yeah. I was right. I don't know what you said. I said it's 50 foot wide. Yeah. I'll be darn.

It's 50 foot long. That's what I meant. That's what I, that's what in my head. Opening on the open side is 50 foot wide? Okay. Yeah, so Kailin and I are sitting there. and Cody and his girls just kind of randomly pull up. I was going home.

I had been a dad. I was going home. Yeah. And then he walks over and I told them, I don't think I've ever done the main part of an interview. Captured it quite like that. Usually I'm trying to direct people to get on these good headsets and just so the audio quality is really nice.

But I had this little handheld deal. And I was just kind of like bouncing around from one. to the other when they would talk, you know? And they just kept talking as they do. And it was, I knew that it was really good. Yeah. And then, I did tell this to Kalen earlier, when he started telling me about the story with Ethan,

that's why I came there. That's what I told Kalin the story that I wanted to hear because I'd heard him tell me the story on the bear. hunt that you guys interrupted us talking about at the first of the podcast. Me and Kaelin were going down there. And he told me, yeah, so it's all tied together. It's full circle. It's like a, yeah.

And I envisioned a podcast that kind of revolved around that story, honestly. That's what I had in my head. But, and it ended up being that. But so Kaelin, we just go back and forth. They're telling me about logging and truck. and equipment and stories about Frankie Dale, which were fascinating. Yeah. Truly were.

And then Kaelin starts telling me about Ethan and what I told him just today was that I was like that close to telling him to stop because I wanted to record that on the good equipment. I mean, I might have even one time like started to speak. Uh-huh. and almost mumbled words. But he was going, and I just, there's one thing I've learned after years of doing this is when somebody wants to talk, just let him talk,

which is sometimes hard for me to do. I want to interrupt him and say something else. But he just, I just let him talk and tell the story. And it was so good, so authentic, I was like, there's no way that we're telling that story again. That was it. Yep. Well, knowing them two as well as I do, that was as natural as you could get them two talking.

Yeah. I mean, you stick headphones on the mic and mynaker face, and, I mean, it's not the same. But me knowing them, I knew where he was at, first of all, and everything going on. But that was, that's what, in my opinion, made it more of the better one, just because it was so natural. I mean, it wasn't just like Cody's showing up. Nothing staged. I even told my wife, I'd hate to pat you on the back. I said, it's unbelievable.

I said, Cody just showed up. Yeah. And he just wrote with it. And it turned out good. Well, you felt that. To me, you felt like you were just standing there with us. Which is what you always want. Yep.

But sometimes it doesn't translate. Like, when it was happening, I knew that they were telling me really cool stuff. But I thought this is going to be really hard to translate this to the listener. I wasn't. I wasn't there, but just listening to it myself. I really liked that. Like, I felt like I was standing there with y'all just listening to y'all, you all talk about, you know, tell stories and stuff.

And, you know, you could hear things echo in the back. You could hear the girls. And the dogs. Yeah. I like that. Well, that was saying two days before that, I was down there helping them work on that dozer, and that's what it felt like. It felt like when we were standing down there just talking and going on while we was working on.

Yeah, it was cool. So when we get done, I say to Cody, I say, man, this is going to turn out really nice. Something like that, didn't I? Yeah. And he goes, what turn out nice? And I said, you've been sitting here watching me, put this microphone in your face, and he's like, what do you mean? And I was like, we're going to make a podcast. He had to have been tricking me.

This is when Cody, like, you think he's just crazy, but really smart. Yeah, he was like, what do you mean? And I was like, you think I'm just, I was just here just getting this audio so I could go listen to it myself in the truck. It was funny. Well, in my mind, you were going to go. In my mind, you were going to his house. Right. Yeah.

And y'all were going to do the podcast. Yes. You know, I thought what you were doing down there was just going to be like a little piece of something here or there maybe. Yeah. You didn't know you were going to be a star. Yeah. Yeah. Did he make you sign a waiver?

you could probably get all that you'd probably get all that content back. Josh. No, it was so good. It really was. Last spring, Clay Newcomb and I collaborated with Jason Phelps at Phelps game calls in building each of our own favorite turkey diaphragms called prime cuts. Now, I'm going to tell you, I love mine because it's easy to use. I'm not going to go, I'm not going to win a turkey calling contest.

It's just not going to happen. but when I run this call, I get the sounds that gobblers are looking for. I have a great turkey hunting track record. If you go listen to real turkeys out in the woods, they're not going to win calling contests, right? That's who I listen to. I can make those sounds on my cut.

I also hunt with Phelps's cut, and I hunt with Clay's cut because they're all three great cuts. Check out Prime Cuts at Phelpsgamecalls.com. I think you'll be glad you do. did and you'll find out that the Steve Ronella cut is an easy to use cut for beginning callers who just want to start making good turkey noises and getting action. Mayor, what's that to you? Well, I like the look inside of the logging world because for me, as a hunter on national

forest public land, you're always coming across loggers and there's kind of a separation between the hunter and the logger, I would say. Like, in a lot of ways, it's even viewed as, like, the loggers are kind of opposing the hunter's goals, and it kind of, like, you know, like, I feel like the loggers aren't always painted in the best light. But I really like this look at it, because y'all are hunters and your loggers,

and you live close to the land. The land is, you know, providing your living. And so that gives you more reason to care for the land and to steward the resource that you're going and pulling. So I really like the real look inside of the logging woods. That's a good, that's a good comment. Yeah. I like that because I think things like that can be villainized. Like it's easy to villainize people when you don't know them, when you don't know their ethic, when you don't know how they do what they do.

It's easy just to say, oh, these guys are just out there cutting. trees. And I think one of the, one of the most impacting things to me was listening to you guys talk about how different sections of timber have been generational for you guys. I mean, that's, that's incredible. I mean, that's, that is exactly what we need more of, not less of. You know, we need this stuff that provides for families. People can work a good job while at the same time preserves the, preserves the habitat for the animals, preserves the longevity. You know what I mean? It's sustainable for generations. And that, like, that really impacted me when you talk about what was said, these woods have put many kids through college. Well, that was a guy I know

that I remember him saying that to me over here. And he told me, he said, this track of timber has put, he said every 30 years they cut it, and send the kid to college. I mean, and it's true. And the other thing that people don't realize that aren't, that don't know loggers or, and even hunters

would know this, there is very little timber in this country. I mean, like, none, basically, that is virgin timber. It's all been cut. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And it's a renewable resource. I mean, even out in big woolly national forest, I mean,

there's probably some places in the eastern side in some of these deep draws and ravines that didn't have marketable timber, you know, that just, it just wasn't worth getting. And those trees today probably are cedar trees that are two foot or. I mean, you wouldn't look at that tree and think that tree's 500 years old, but it might be. I mean, would you guys agree with that? Like, in some places there is some virgin timber? Yeah, I mean, on the government. You think so?

Government land, like some of that wilderness land that they don't touch it all. But they did back, I mean, I know personally a lot of federal wilderness in this part of the world that would have been cut to the ground. But now it's wilderness. Yeah. I'm talking about, you know, like places. In my lifetime, and before, I know they haven't cut. Yeah. But guess what?

you go through there now, those big trees are falling over. Yeah. If you, dad's famous, one of dad's most famous lines ever is, it's a crop. Yeah.

I've heard him say that my whole life. If you don't take care of it, nature takes care of it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, those big trees, as much as I myself like to ride and hunt in big timber,

there's nothing better. They being in big timber, you know. Yeah. We was talking about that last night. We was watching a turkey hunt. and it was a timber turkey hunt because there's nothing better than killing the old the old woods gobbler there's nothing like but nothing lasts forever yeah those big trees that are protected if you can't there's a section of government land that I hunt and have for a lifetime you can go back from one year to the next and it's amazing how much of that big virgin timber

it's fell over. Yeah. And when it starts falling over like that, it's a mess. It's a mess for years. You know, it's just, buyers grow up, it's just a mess. Yeah.

That's nature's way of taking care of it. Yeah. I mean, you can either manage it or God will. I mean, that's just how it works. Yeah. Well, and there, I said it on the podcast. but I think we know now how incredible that some, you know, select timber harvest can be for wildlife property. I mean, the best thing you could do for a big piece of timber if you wanted to make it deer and turkey habitat is cut some of the timber.

And so, you know, and I think most people that be listened to this would know that, but the general population may be in some other places, you know, you might say loggers and they might go, oh, man, yeah, those are bad guys. And it's just ridiculous. I mean, like I said, even though the world is much more, much more plastic and much more metal than it used to be, you know, 100 years ago during the wooden age, we still use an incredible amount of wood. I mean, just a, I mean, we live in a very wooden world still. I know the guy that, well, if you're talking about paper and cardboard, I mean, I think that there's going to, to be a transition more to cardboard and paper getting away from plastics now that they're seeing how wild plastics are just in terms of all the stuff but anyway i mean so it's hard to be upset with a logger when uh if you're a human yeah you know and especially like these guys and

so the next episode is going to be primarily with teddy valines which is cody's dad kailen wayland's uncle and he started the first things he said to me was he said I love big timber and he said I hate clear cutting we select cut logs our entire lives you know and uh well to Josh's point well ago when he was talking about that stood out to him about the generations log in the same spot I can remember, which I've been out of this business for 20 years now, but I was like them. When they was telling their stories about being 8, 9 year old with their little chainsaws, well, I was 12, and they put me on a skitter. I was skidding three loads logs a day behind my dad and uncle.

I knew he tried to one up, y'all. At 12. At 12. But one of the first thing, when he said that, something popped in my mind, something dad told me, well, I'm a kid, first of all, and just a few drags. in and dad stopped me and said all that little stuff don't run over as little as you can because he said them oak bushes that big around he said it's going to be cut one of these days he said be mindful and of course you're on a piece of equipment that it's you can't not run over everything

right i mean but you can be selective on how you operate but that was ingrained in us at a very young age, this is what's going to support the next generation. Yeah. And same thing. I'd drive by and say, well, Dad, why didn't you cut that tree? Because to me, it was as big as some of the other ones he had cut, but he'd say, son, we've got to leave something to come back to. Yeah.

So, and that's really, really that's profound. You know what I mean? It's a profound thing to make choices like that because I think, I think humans, especially Westerners, have gotten really short-sighted. You know what I mean? It's really about instant gratification, how it's going to benefit us right now in the moment, and to have people that are thinking, hey, I want to come back to that tree in 10 or 20 or 30 years, that's sapling. There's a good possibility that some of that stuff that told me about them to are. Have it could it since. Exactly.

Before you all leave, you ought to go, I'll take you in my front yard. I bought and planted myself in 2005 a two inch at the base. Red Oak, just like I bought from the landscape place. And it was 2005. I mean, I know for a fact when I planted it. And that tree, you could cut it and make furniture out of it. You want them to take it down for the leave? As a matter of fact, did y'all bring your saw?

I'm ready to cash it in. Y'all are mainly cutting hardwoods. Yeah. I mean, that's all that's up here for the most part. For the most part, yeah. Some pine. When we were kids, I would say, we cut a lot of pine on a couple of different tracks. Oh, really?

A lot of pine. But in the last several years, very little that we've even dealt with us. Just because it's not there, it's not there. Markitable. Not there. Yeah. Well, it doesn't seem like the, I mean, you go south of the Arkansas River and it's almost not all pine, but those pine plantations. I mean, it feels like the world's got plenty of pine.

Yeah. So you wouldn't even, I mean, the hardwood seems to be a little hardwood. I mean, there's some pine out there. Some of these government tracks will have, you know, pine on them. And most of that's pretty small stuff, whatever, but. Yeah. most of your private land stuff we just don't run across much buying anymore

not up here really Kaelin what stood out to you I know it's hard to listen to a podcast that you were the main guy on but I mean like did anything did anything stand out to you no not really he probably didn't even listen to it

Oh he did I can vouch for him okay okay well Kalen's just like yep He told us, Clay. Good job. Man, a few words. Well, Cody, what, I mean, were you, did you hear, did we get right?

How do you do putting it together? Oh, I told him when we came in here. He did with what he had to work with. I said, you're the talent with the talent he had to work with. Actually, what stood out to me? I didn't know it was out. He told me last night that we were coming here today. Yeah.

And he's like, he put that out today. so I went home last night and watched it or listened to it when he got to talking about Ed you know just his that mentality I mean you can't you can't describe a man anywhere than

mm-hmm he describes his dad yeah that was I mean we put like six minutes of probably of content there. And I mean, Kaelan could have said so much more.

But what you said about him was profound. And I have said that statement that the couple ideas that he had there. I mean, just kind of like life philosophies, you know, just when he said, well, talking about contentment. But then talking about. when he said, if you're really being honest with people, you know, you're probably not going to get rich. Yeah. And I've said that to multiple people.

And again, you qualified it and said, I know that that's not entirely true. They're wealthy people that are honest. Yeah. But there's a lot of truth to it. And, you know, just the idea that it just goes against the grain so much of what just pulsates through American society. Yeah. I mean, it's like you almost feel bad for not trying to get rich. I mean, that's the vibe that I feel.

It's almost like, if you're not trying, it's almost irresponsible. This is America, capitalism, most prosperous nation on earth. And it's just like, I'll tell you something that I read, and I'm going to try to tie it in, and you're going to think I'm crazy. But I was reading a book about Inuits. I'm going to, I'm going on a big trip in a couple weeks. And they said that nomadic hunter-gatherer people, a huge difference between nomadic hunter-gatherer people and agrarian people was the way that they viewed objects.

And this guy said that nomadic people, this is all going to tie together, boys, nomadic people typically viewed objects with suspicious. and kind of because they knew that they if they were going to take something with them they were going to have to carry it. Right, right. They thought about things in literal terms of weight.

And so in general, nomadic people did not gather up material objects. Farmers, on the other hand, agrarian societies were just like, well, I might as well take that home. I got a place to put it. Yep. and this guy said that the Western thought process has been so influenced by the agrarian world

that we have we falsely think that desire for material wealth is a native human desire that just runs inside of all of us like he said that's actually not true because like psychologists and all these people would say that it is. That's just human nature. Like if you just pluck somebody out of Africa and out of Europe and out of India and you put them all in a laboratory, they would all have this innate desire to accumulate material objects and wealth. And this guy's saying, no, that's not true.

Yeah. We just are so ingrained with this thing that this desire for material wealth is actually something relatively new. Right. And when Europeans first arrived in North America, they were astonished. It's in the record all over the place. It's fascinating to me. They were astonished at these guys trying to find gold.

Like they were like, what do you want? And they're like, gold. What for? I mean, you can't eat it. You can't plant it and make it grow. You can't build something with it. And they actually thought these guys were crazy. Yeah.

So I just think about Eddie and kind of the mentality. Just like not this fire. And again, to me, the key component is contentment, not how much money. I mean, you know, it's not like, well, if you have more than this many dollars, you're evil. I mean, you can't do that, you know. But just this idea of contentment being pretty powerful. And it makes me aware of the vibe. of this generation, of this time.

I mean, that was a profound section, I thought. Oh, yeah, that was the best part to me, by far. Yeah. Just knowing him. Yeah. Knowing him. I mean, he just wants to be my dad. I mean, him and dad are one and the same.

Yeah. I lived in the house with one. That's the only difference, honestly. Yeah. But growing up, I wouldn't have said that Ed's, that's the guy I want to be like. He's, you know, what I mean? He wasn't that larger than life. He was just Ed to me.

But the older I got, you know, and before he got sick and whatever, just going down there, just going to his house. He might be on the back porch with a cup of coffee. In the wintertime, he'd be in there by that stove with a cup of coffee, whatever. Just going in the house, you got that feeling of contentment. You bet. Yeah. Yeah. So to me, that was, that made the podcast for me, for me.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was unique. unique I'm looking forward to the next episode you know it's I hope

I hope us bringing up Frankie Dale was I mean surely his family would be proud of what all was said about him those stories were really interesting to me yeah I mean just the way

you described him and then I wouldn't have known that he died like the listener was on the same journey as me because you started talking about Frankie Dale and you know

you talked about what a character he was everybody knew him and then and then I go and basically in my mind I'm leading to questions

about man this is really dangerous you know do you all have stories of guys getting killed now I knew about Kalin's story

about Ethan that's kind of why I'm there but I had no idea that you all would have known people that had been, I mean, I figured you did, but known people that had been killed. And then for Kaelin go, well,

Frankie Dale got killed like three years ago. I mean, I don't know, it just painted the picture. Yeah. I mean, and then it also, when I started doing the research on logging, just how dangerous it actually is. Yeah, the Bureau of Labor Statistics

puts out stuff every year about the most dangerous jobs. And, you know, I didn't, it wasn't like a, deep dive into it, but basically in the 1990s, Login peaked as the most dangerous, like, it was the most dangerous. Yeah, I mean, it almost feels like maybe back in the day deeper, it would have been more dangerous, but since the Bureau was keeping stats, it peaked in the 1990s. I can see that.

I wonder if y'all had any insight into that. I can see that. The best time we got into it. Yeah. Yeah. You all got into it. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, not your dad's. I could see the pace of it. The pace. The pace. The pace picking up in the 90s. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

We're before that. And there was less, there was mechanization, but there was more hand-cutting going on. You bet. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And today. In the 90s, it would have been, most of the guys around here would have been hand-cutting. I mean, cutting them down.

I just don't. Yeah. And they would also been cutting the lengths, what we call bucking up. Yeah. Most of all that. That would have been chainsaw work. I mean, there was probably, the 90s probably would have been when I probably seen the first buckup saw, which is a mechanical hydraulic saw that hooksaw near loader.

And you can cut them to a length throughout there with a loader. Okay, so you cut them at the stump, they fall over, and then the buckup saw cuts them into the links that you need for the mill. Gotcha. The first buckup saw I probably would ever heard it would have been in the 90s, and I was a little kid. So it got safer when he had a buck-up saw. Yeah. It took out one element. It took out one time you cutting through that log.

It was like him talking about getting hung up. Yeah. Yeah. When he got hung up in a log pile, that was because he was bucking up the log with a chainsaw. Yeah. Instead of having a buck-up saw, all that takes that element out of it. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that would have been the heyday. Hmm. Well, that's when it. You bet. So that's when it peaked 128 deaths per 100,000 workers per year. and that was way above like the number two thing in the 90s. So this is why I was trying to describe.

Like the second thing, I don't even know what it was, but whatever it was, it was deaths like in the like 50, 60, if it was commercial fishing. And the way they do it is they give the statistic based upon 100,000 workers. Out of 100,000 workers, 128 died. Today, and I think the most of the most, recent stats I found were like 2017 or something and

it was a little bit unclear but it was between 50 and a hundred deaths per 100,000 today. Oh really? And logging was still the most dangerous but it was right in line closer

to in line with commercial fishing, commercial fishing ironworking small aircraft pilot and when you think about that that makes sense too because like per 100,000 you might be like you know how many how many people we hear about people around here that are dying and little plane crashes occasionally but anyway it's pretty interesting stuff yeah the other interesting stat that I learned was that and now this

was an older statistic from like the it was a couple years old but that the average American uses one tree, 18 inch tree, 100 foot long, and paper and wood every year. Was that surprising? A hundred foot long? You didn't listen? Did you even listen, Cody? 100 foot long? That's what it said.

I realized the tree couldn't be. I realize the tree couldn't be 100 foot long. Yeah, but I mean, just that amount. That's what they said. Just in paper products. Just, I mean. The number of Amazon packages that I get at my house and the amount of boxes I break down, that doesn't surprise me.

But that's increased in the last... I said after COVID, I wanted to start investing in cardboard companies. Yeah, no doubt. Everything's in cardboard. Yep. I mean, everything's shipped. Everything's in cardboard.

But anyway, yeah, that's a... That sounds like a lot. I wouldn't have thought every American was using one giant tree every year. I'm thinking about just buying my tree straight from these guys. Making your own cardboard? Just mail order. Maybe that's a new business for you guys.

Y'all could ship people logs just so they could hand pick, because that's the way it works. It's like a mark. For their dugout canoes and their... Bows. Yeah, I've actually been looking at these big snakewood logs that they ship from Canada. Or like a thousand bucks for a six-foot log to ship it.

Wow. Oh, really? Yeah, I'm really considering it because I've never seen a snakewood boat. We may have some snakewood laying around, you think? Is that a thing y'all have around? I don't know. I've never heard of snake wood. On Blood Trails, the stories don't end when the hunt is over.

They just get darker. I've seen something in the road. I instantly thought it was a sleeping bag. And there was a full of blood. Oh, my God, he doesn't have a hit. Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors, where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is. scarce and the truth gets buried under brush and silence.

Indications were he should be right there and but he wasn't. This season we're going deeper from cold case files to whispered suspicions, from remote mountains to frozen backwoods. Each story begins in the wilderness and ends in darkness because out here there are no witnesses, no cameras, just fragments and the people left behind trying to piece them back together. He's not an honest person. He's incapable of being honest. Somebody somewhere knows something.

I'm Jordan Sillers. Season 2 of Blood Trails premieres April 16th. Follow now on Apple, Iheart, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaking of wood, show us your bow. So this bow, new bow. Speaking of wood. Yeah, speaking of wood, I got Osage Orange, black walnut on the handle with a big, going right through the middle.

And then olive wood, which, surprisingly, well, actually, not surprisingly, but it kind of caught me off guard. Whenever I was cutting through that olive wood, it smelled like green olives, like really strong. And even whenever I'm filing it, it smells like olives, but...

Can you smell it right now? Probably. It kind of has a pungent, like a sharp odor. I wouldn't have picked it as olives, but I smell what you're smelling. That odor, I think, is just the, hardwood. I don't like olives.

You don't even smell it. That odor, I think, is just from the place I got it. It smells like that. Okay. But no, whenever I cut through it, it smelled like olives. I'll take your word for it. Okay. I'm not an olive fan.

I like that riser on there and that grip. It is a good looking bow. I mean, it's not finished out. You know, this is the rough. Right. So he'll take a lot more off of that. Yeah, yeah. But I'm kind of trying to replicate the wormhole.

Replicate more of a, like your fiberglass reclass reclass, If you look at a recurve, it's got a lot more material on the handle, and you can get a lot deeper in that grip, and that's one of the major factors. A bigger handle for why it's easier to shoot a fiberglass recurve than a self-bow. And so I'm trying to get as close to that as I can, but it's still. A big, needy handle on it. Yeah.

But anyway, there it is. Looks good. Where did that stave, Osage stave come from? That's what I was going to say. Where did you get that? The Osage, I believe this stage. came from one of my one of my

Bowyer teachers he gave me that stave. Do y'all have Osage over there? Not to my knowledge. You don't see it? Man, we've got we've got a lot of Osage. I think the further west you get you get more. I mean I've got

a ton of Osage on this property. Yeah, we're in kind of a weird... He's cutting staves. We're in kind of like a zone where there's Osage. Yeah Yeah, it's incredible wood, man When you cut it And cut it with a saw

It is almost neon yellow Have you ever cut it with a saw? I have Yeah, and you just see a big old pile This bright It dulls over time Yeah, if you see one that's like 30 years old That's been sitting in the sun

Or taking a lot of use It'll be jet black Like, really? Jet black Black? Black, yeah It's pretty, pretty wild.

Is that bow right there? What do you intend to do with it? Is that going to be a hunting bow? Is that going to be a... Yeah, yeah, this is going to be a hunting bow. I don't know if I should say yet what I'm exactly I'm doing with it. It's a secret. Sillig.

Can you foreshadow? Not certain. You're not a foreshadow or like your dad. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. We're probably... We're going to Alaska. We're going to Alaska.

And I need to make the bow totally. waterproof. That's what I get in a little. Wink. There's your foreshadowing, folks. I want to know how do you come up with

what poundage that's going to be? Is that all about string or is it all right in the bow? It's all in the bow. I mean, you can adjust it a little with a string

but yeah, I'll put it up in a tailoring rack and I'll take wood off of this side and I'll put just a bow scale on it and pull it down. He's constantly testing the weight. He'll put a string

on. it test the way you know what you've got yeah it's at 48 while you're building it's at 48 right now yeah okay and when i stand it it it'll probably lose a couple of hours he's had several that got it kind of got away from him a little bit and he's like you know it's too it got too light too quick you know so you can once it gets too light you can't go back yeah i mean you can sometimes you can cut them shorter or make the string shorter but yeah it's it's no good once you get them too light have ever had one blow up on you when you're shooting? No, but I'm kind of surprised I haven't yet.

I know a lot of people who've had him blow up on them. Gary Newcomb had an American compound bow. There was a company called American. Did you ever hear that? In the 90s, there was a company called American. And he was shooting trying to shoot bows super fast. He was shooting just the lightest arrow possible. and that's real hard on a boat trying to get to shoot real flat.

He kind of had like hot rod bows. And I remember being out in the yard with him one day when that thing just came apart at the compound bow. Oh, I've been there. I had a high country done the exact same. When I got done, I was holding the riser. That was it. Everything else was hanging down here. I don't want to do that again.

Parks just go everywhere. Oh, yeah. There's pieces of that bow I never did find. Yeah. yeah they'll find that in the archaeological record one day good possibility

uh well man thank you guys for coming yeah yeah and it's it's uh

we could have we could have had you on after this next episode but it just worked out for y'all to come this time Waylon what stood out to you I hadn't really even asked you that

no it it brought back a lot of memories I mean, it was good start to finish for me because it did. Like I said, I've been out of 20 years. Cody brought up a good point while ago. I've got two brothers. They're sitting right there. And to see them what they've done, it's good.

I got a lot of last thinking about, because it brought up a lot of memories. Think about them too. one of them, whichever one of them, talked about the McCullough and the home light chainsaw. I can remember, I think it was Colin, that he took that old McCullough, and it was, it didn't want to start a lot of times. That's a famous, great of a McCullough chainsaw. It would start good the first time. Yeah, the first time.

Once it got hot, it didn't want to start. No. Well, I witnessed him crank on it so much, he got mad, and as far as he could throw that saw, he threw it over the hill. Yeah. And left it. Dad come in to fill up with gas And he was like, where's where you saw? Because I got mad

He went to know why I hadn't bucked up the logs Yeah, yeah Why haven't you done your job? And then he says, Where's your saw? Yeah And it's over that heel He said, we'll go get it

Yeah, yeah That and coming in with drag of logs And seeing them playing baseball Stick and rock Which meant we had done our job We were caught up Yeah, you were caught up like that, but yeah, no, it was, I'm like Cody, the contentment that our father had.

Looking back, makes a lot more sense now. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I recently stepped away from a 20-year career for that purpose, to have more contentment, to be home. Mm-hmm. And I always knew Cody brought up a good point in. the podcast about it being addictive. And I can tell you, for me, I love driving a skitter.

I mean, that's what I grew up doing, done it for, well, until I was 24, I think. And working inside for 20 years never could get used to it. I enjoyed my job. I enjoyed the people, but I didn't even have a window to look out of, and it was hard. I mean, there was days I would have been sitting behind a big motor just hearing it roar. and grabbing trees and going. And now I can get back outside again. Do you mind telling us what you did and what you do now?

I mean, you don't have to if you don't want to. No, that's fine. I worked for us in combat for 21 years. Pistol shop. Customs custom 19-11. Yeah. Custom ARs. And God bless me with a way to.

provide for my family. The year I started for them was the year my oldest daughter was born. And I was able to step away because, I mean, just like the last few days in the wintertime, there's days you don't work. I need a steady paycheck and was able to step away. Now I'm helping my cousin run a turkey farm. That's less than a quarter mile from my house. So for the first time and a long time, I've got up every morning for the last six months and watched the sun come up.

And I literally rode a mule to work several days, and it's just been great. But to my point that I was able to do it, and the contentment that I have is, it's a process. I have a better understanding what our father always told us. Yeah. I mean, I don't want to talk too much. You can edit it out if you don't like it. Yeah. When I told you, when I told you, when you asked us what the biggest benefit was?

And I said, the freedom? Yeah. Five years ago, six years ago? In 2020. June 2020. I found out that I had colon cancer. Oh. Read DAC to that editor.

Put it back. Put it back. That's what I meant. He didn't hear what I said. I made a joke when you started to the editor to cut it out. And then when I realized where we're going, I'm like, we better keep this in. Anyway, I was 36 years old, found out I had cold cancer. Leading up to that, I mean, I'm not going to throw out numbers or talk about production or anything.

But leading up to that point, the logging business had been good for us, really good. and I got to the point I was working on Saturday lots of Saturdays but I wasn't working on Saturdays I was taking care of equipment I love the bass fish in the summertime at night

I love to bass fish tournament fish whatever I quit bass fishing I was I mean I was I was working I mean I wasn't even hunting like I normally would hunt and in that summer I found that I had a colon cancer

I was cutting timber when they called me had my phone in my pocket I had been to the doctor I knew they were going to call me whatever and I had been looking at this little stretch of timber for a week I mean I had cut everything out below it I had it set up and I was cutting that little section of some big nice timber that morning I could hear Dad over here.

He's cutting. And Frank, he was working with this at the time. He's over here. I could hear saws running. And my phone, I'm cutting a tree. And my phone vibrates in my pocket. And it's the doctor. And he said, what we found is colon cancer.

And he said, it was early stages. He said, this is early. He said, I think you can probably get, took care of. But he said, if you don't take care of it, this will kill you. That was these exact words. I got off the phone. My chainsaw still stuck in a tree over there, idling. I walked over there to a white oak stump,

and I got down, and I had done some praying. And I could tell you lots of stories about the whole, you know, just the whole, what I came out of that with. But one of the biggest things I came out of that with was, I'm not going to say I was to the point of being driven by a dollar but I was getting there I mean I was getting to the point where

you know we were doing pretty good making some money and when that starts happening you want to make more of it but guess what it's like you're talking about well ago you just you just keep wanting more you'll never be satisfied if you let that

drive you I mean I know guys that just like logging that much. They'll be out there on Saturday. And they're really doing it for the money. They just like it that much. That's, you know, I'm not knocking those guys at all.

If that's what you love doing, get after it. But I think God put the brakes on for me. I mean, there's some other things that came out of that. But one of the biggest things that for me was God was like, what, you know, this is what's really important. I had two kids that. time one was gosh i have to do the math one was two i think the other one was even younger but after i got back healed up they did surgery i mean the good lord took care of me cancer free i've done scan after scan since then and scopes and so far i've seen this good but god healed

me we'll just shorten it up and say god healed me because he did uh oh but after that when I came out of that got healed up I was like okay what you know what is really important and then since that time it's amazing how much more time I spent with dad not in the woods he was there for all of it you know working we were side beside but since then we spent the last five winters we've done

done so much more hunting. I got back into fishing, fish all the time in the summertime. I don't know. It's funny how God can just hold you up and be like, what's really, you know, what's really important? I mean, we're only going to get to do this one time. You better do what you, I mean, if you got kids and friends and family,

enjoy them because I heard a guy say that day, nobody ever said on their deathbed. I wish I went to work more. And that's so true. Yeah. Well, that's the reason I'm doing what I do now because looking back on it, I took it for granted. Dad always told us, boys, when about the only time we took a vacation was in November.

We'd take off a couple weeks deer hunt. And Dad always tells us, boys, do it where you can't. I know now what he meant. I mean, I'm 45-year-old. and got two kids that I was chasing around all over playing ball, and I love it. But a year or two ago, we had got out, and my youngest daughter, I took her, we went squirrel hunting. Took mom's dog, just walked a circle, killed a few squirrels, had a big time. And my youngest daughter had never even squirrel hunting.

And I told my wife then, I said, something got to change. I said, missed way too much. I said, things have got to slow down. I said, there's got to be more of this. I've always loved riding, love breaking animals, been able to get back to that. But that contentment, I mean, this is circle back around, but that's, you can't put a price on that.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, dad now is fighting cancer. You know that. He just kind of found out in November. he's doing good right now. Be real good right now. But when all that happened and I was able to look back on

the last five, six years and be like, you know, I haven't taken it for granted. Every time we went, we're out, you know, doing something besides working, I mean, I've enjoyed it. And now looking back on it's like, I mean, you can see what God kind of lined up

for you. But it's been Yeah. It's quite a journey. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Not to bring up everything bad going on, but our dad was diagnosed with a little body's dementia. Yeah. Three, almost three year ago now. Going on four. Going on four years. Almost four.

And it seems, but I hate to say it, but it seems like one bad thing after another. It just happened, but, boy, it puts things in perspective. Yeah. Makes you think about the things that he told you. Oh, yeah. That's the reason this, I mean, yeah, I got a lot of laughs out of it and everything,

but it brought up a lot of good memories. I mean, don't get me wrong, we've always had it good. Oh, yeah. I mean, not knowing any better. Not knowing any of the way. We didn't know when we as kids how tough it probably really was. What our father's mothers went through because we didn't know that we didn't have anything.

Looking back on it, I mean, we had, don't give me wrong, we had a lot. Yeah, I can remember being like an early teenager, 13, 14 years old or whatever. Coming home from school one day and mom. said, oh, so-and-so had a heart attack. And I was like, well, what happened to him? And she said, I think it was just stress. And I was like, what? And she said, he was just stressed out.

And I said, what's that mean? What does that mean? And it wasn't anything to do with me. It was everything to do with the two people that raised me. I never heard the word stress. I never heard them say, man, I'm stressed out. this is going wrong, that's going wrong. I mean, they were trying to raise two kids.

My sister was born with a hole in her heart, and that's a whole other podcast. I mean, she's a miracle. Yeah. Still alive today. They dealt with that. But they never talked about being stressed out or it's so bad. They weren't victims of.

No, sir. It was just life. It was just life and how we dealt with it, how they dealt with it. And I'm so thankful for that. I mean, looking back on it now, I can look back on it and be like, you know, everybody didn't have the mom and daddy that I did. I mean, it's just plain and simple. Everybody didn't.

But I sure am glad I did. Yeah. Well, that's why this was, it was, I mean, you know, this podcast, obviously is focusing on this logging thing, but you're seeing behind it to see little pictures into you guys' family. And that's something I've noticed right away when I got to know you guys, which I hadn't known you my whole life. I mean, I don't know, five or six years ago, Kailen, we met. But no, y'all really do have something really special.

And, I mean, your families are strong believers. I knew that right away, which was unique. And then, yeah, just the history that, you know, you guys have and where you all live and i mean i got a cool story and i'm i'm glad we found a way to kind of share it and we're kind of just getting started because next episode's all about your dad yeah and uh uh it's really good this this whole episode i actually the way i build these is is you kind of just like i don't see the whole thing when i start i mean even when i'm like have done all the interviews,

I come back here and I listen to every episode, I mean, every interview. And I had like two and a half hours of talking between at your house, with your dad, and then our stuff at the global headquarters. And so I just, I listen to the whole thing and I just pull out the pieces that I'm just like, that's interesting.

I want that in there. I don't know where it's going to fit. So I started pulling out pieces and stacking them together and like little bricks and blocks. And the whole time I was thinking, okay, this is all going to Teddy. You know, we've got to introduce Teddy. And, you know, I built this whole episode

and we hadn't even talked to him yet. And it just, you know, and I did that because it was good. I just kept stacking stuff on top of stuff. But that's good, though, because next episode will be. And I'm glad you got him. Yeah. You got him going.

Well, I mean, we've talked about it for years, like with Hillard or other Uncle Hillard. That's right. Why didn't somebody have a tape recorder? When he started. I mean, I've got like an eight or ten minute video that Hillard doesn't know, he don't know what I got. On my phone. Just because one day I just happened to be like, oh, here's my chance. And I've got a couple different ones of Dad and Frankendale together talking about the old times.

Oh, do you really? You bet. Like, sitting in a truck, sat down to eat lunch, and I would purposely get them going, and I'd hit record on my phone. Really? I've got a couple different 20 minutes. And one of them's a good one. But everybody said for years, it'd be like, like, look at the grandma, why didn't somebody record that?

Well, can I tell them about Hillard when we went over there? Yeah, is that okay? Absolutely. So, Ted, it's confusing. I've been around enough. know the story now, but Teddy and Eddie, their dads, have an older brother named Hillard, and he is the oldest living brother. There's another brother that's older, but Hillard is 87.

Still alive, still in incredible health. And Kalin, last year sometime, two years ago, said, Uncle Hillard, I've got a buddy that would like to come interview you and talk to you about, we're going to talk about. No, he grew up on them. Buffalo. Yeah, we're going to talk about Buffalo River when we did in our Buffalo River episodes. And anyway, I end up going over there and meeting with him, and we put these stinking headsets on him.

And I did. It wasn't a week. Clay did. I warned you about that before we got there. I know. The thing was is that we, I felt like I had some rapport with him. I mean, I'd talked to him, and he was warmed up, and he just seemed to be enjoying himself. Yeah.

And then I was like, man, hey, let's go ahead and do this and put this headset on him. And it was like something shifted. Like putting a muzzle on a dog. And he turned to Kalin and he just said, hey, I don't want to do this. And anyway, it was a shame. And I was just like, hey, no problem. I don't want you to feel uncomfortable. I mean, he's just a, he's just a, Hillard's 87, but he's probably.

50 years behind the times in terms of just his knowledge of, I mean, he's like a guy that you plucked out of the 1940s. Yeah. You had a long conversation with him after you took the headsets back on. Yeah, we took the headsets off and then talked about all the things we wanted to talk about. He had no problem telling me and just talking to us, but he just didn't want to be recorded. Yeah. He just was like, I just don't want to be recorded. I mean, yeah, so it's not like we hadn't tried to get Hillary. Now, I got it. Now, Hillard's younger brother, also your uncle, Willard. He loves to be recorded.

I don't want to make it sound like he loves to be recording. But just today, this year, there's going to be a film that comes out about our bear camp. And we made Sorghum. I'll show y'all a clip of it. Nobody's seen it. But anyway, you're going to get to see Hillard Villains, which is y'all's uncle. Willard. Willard.

Willard, excuse me, Willard, Junior, Willard. And, okay, Sunny Boy. Sunny Boy. Yeah, that's what everybody knows him as is Sunny Boy. But, so anyway, yeah, a lot of tie-ins with you guys. I mean, getting to know you guys has been just incredible.

I mean, just, it's been a lot of fun. And then our other buddy, my buddy, Justin House, is like y'all's a little brother. Yep. Who's become a good friend of mine. Sometimes. We all just gang up and whoop him, though. My youngest daughter and I are going over to his house.

He won't even listen to this. So we can say whatever we won't. My youngest daughter and I are going to his house on Sunday. We're going to ride mules. Oh, really? Yep. Yep. Ah, no, yeah.

So anyway, thank you guys. We've been going, this is the long-rending. Yeah. It's a long-rinder. Well, thanks a lot. And anything else? Keep the wild. Check out the real bear grease Instagram.

Real bear. Yeah, we have a new Instagram. channel page too. I forgot to say that. Yep, yep. See if we can get Hillard Velines to like us on Instagram. Keep the wild place is wild because that's where the bears live. First Lights fieldware collection is

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