Bear Grease - Ep. 442: Backwoods University - Florida Cattle and Conservation

Episode Date: April 13, 2026

The Florida water crisis, remains the focus of our discussion. However, we are going to hear about it from a different perspective. Pat Durden is a multi-generational Floridian, a cattlemen, and an outdoorsman. Pat is going to give his take on some the water issue Florida is up against, from the perspective of farmers and ranchers. Connect with Lake Pickle and MeatEater Lake Pickle on Instagram MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, and YouTube Clips MeatEater Podcast Network on YouTubeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

First Lights fieldwear collection is made for the work that happens long before opening day and continues when the season ends. Products built for early mornings, full days in real use. Hard wearing where they need to be versatile where it matters. No shortcuts. Just gear designed for the work that earns the season. Built to perform, built to last. Check out. First Light's new fieldwear gear at firstlight.com.

Welcome to Backwoods University, a place where we focus on wildlife, wild places, and the people who dedicate their lives to conserving both. Big shout out to Onyx Hunt for their support of this podcast. I'm your host, Lake Pickle. And on this episode, we're going back to the state of Florida. We're going back to the water crisis. However, this time, we're going to hear about it from a different perspective. Okay, so allow me to explain kind of the odd setting that you're seeing me in right now. I'll start with the setting first, and then explain why.

this episode is going to be a little bit different. First, the setting. I am on the Mississippi River with Clay and Josh Billmaker right now, and we are turkey hunting. And at this camp, where I'm recording this episode, we have electricity and Starlink and all that stuff. However, we just lost power and the generator quit working. So I had to drive out of the river bottoms to the highest hill I could find and connect to my phone hotspot so I could conduct this interview and record this podcast. And so that's why you're seeing all this and just why it's a little bit different. Now, Moving on to why this episode is going to be different than probably a lot of other regular backwoods university episodes. So in the last episode, we focused on the water crisis, some of the water issues happening in Florida.

And we heard from Captain Mike and Captain Cody, who both work with captains for clean water. What we're doing this week and returning to that subject again is we're going to hear about that same subject, but we're going to hear about it from a very different perspective. and I'm not going to speak for them. I'm not going to give anything else away. I want to let them speak for themselves because I believe they have earned the right to do so. And like we said in this show before, I believe in not telling you how to think.

I believe in sharing facts. And I believe in never being afraid to share every possible perspective, every possible side of the story. So I hope you enjoy this episode. And yeah, good luck out there if you're hunting turkeys. That's what me and Clay and Josh are doing. Let's get into it.

Lake, my name's Pat Durdon. I'm a past president of the Florida Cattlemen's Association. I currently serve on the Farm Bureau State Board of Directors. And I'm a seventh generation agriculturalist is what I would call it, because we haven't always just been in cattle. We have timber, and I've grown produce, and my granddad was a roecropper and grew shade. tobacco in North Florida. So a pretty long history of being an integral part of agriculture.

My dad was actually a county extension agent for 35 years for the University of Florida at Iphus. And so I think, you know, ag is a great part of Florida. And we have a good story to tell of how agriculture has always been a part of Florida. Before Florida was Florida, actually. Yeah. So Florida Cattlemen, and I'm trying to just set the stage here. So like what, what is the Florida Cattlemen's, what is, who do they represent and what is their, what is their function within the state? All right. So the Florida Cattlemen is a grassroots organization that you join as a member. We have county affiliates is what I'll call them. So we have county chapters across the state. Not every single county has a chapter. Sometimes two or three counties

joined together and have a chapter together. And the purpose really was, you know, just to bring our issues to Tallahassee. I think it dates back to our inception is maybe 1936. So the founders thought it was important for us to always be involved in how. how the state progressed and moved forward with legislation or regulation. And we've always thought it was important to be a part of that as an organization. And collectively, we meet quarterly our state board of directors and go over issues that may be popping up around the state or things that we feel are important to be heard on and kind of, you know, collectively work together to come to, you know, positive resolutions on those things

on behalf of Florida cattlemen's. Right. And another question, and just to kind of explain what I'm doing here, like, we're eventually, we'll get to, like, the meat of this conversation, but I'm trying to like make sure everyone fully understands the angle we're coming from here. So a lot of people or some people may think they're like, man, Florida cattlemen's, we're talking about farmers, ranchers, row croppers, people that are, you know, growing a crop or, you know, raising livestock.

Like how some of them may be wondering, like, why is that, what does that even have to do with wildlife? You know, what does that have to do with wildlife conservation? And so I kind of paint that picture for me. Yeah, so absolutely. So I don't really know a single farmer rancher that doesn't love to hunt and fish. And that's basically an integral part of being a Floridian. I mean, when you can hunt and fish year around in our state. And, you know, ranches encompass about 19% of the private property in Florida, the state.

And I guess I'll say that, you know, this is kind of a little corny thing that I've always heard. And certainly I heard it directly from my grandfather and father. But, you know, we live off the land and we have to be stewards of the land. And it's always been important, certainly in our family, to leave it better than the generation before. And that's a story that's told all across, not. even just Florida, but, you know, farmers and ranchers around the nation, that's just almost ingrained in their DNA, that they're responsible for the wildlife that reside on their property. They're responsible for the water. And I guess most people don't realize that whether

it's a farm or a ranch, there's, I mean, a pretty large portion of the property, even if it's farmed intensively that is generally just open to wildlife. I mean, and for water recharge areas and just the habitat that they thrive in. And I think every farmer and rancher I know, it's really important to them to be good stewards. I think we all hope to make a profit every year. That's really something that you have to try and do to stay in business. But when you go to a farmer or rancher's place and what they really want to show you is their wildlife, you know, they want to show you those things because that's really just who they are. I mean, when you know you're not going to generally make a lot of money or you're kind of risking a lot for a very small return sometimes.

on investment, the return that I think a lot of us get is that we get to live out there on the land and see it and live it and be a part of the wildlife and be good stewards. And, you know, even if we just break even or something a year, like, that's in, that's so rewarding. I mean, and I think that's just a, I mean, that's just part of who we are caring about the land and the wildlife. And, you know, I've always said if we could if we could do one thing in Florida that I would love to do that we would love to do, that we're. we can't is I'd love to take all 24 million Floridians and and take them on a two or three day farm and ranch tour so they could just so they could see that and feel it and I think they would really see what drives farmers and ranchers and what they're really passionate about. Certainly we're passionate about growing food and fiber for the nation and for our fellow Floridians but you know, the real reward a lot of times is just being allowed to be out there in God's country and with the wildlife and land and just know that you did a good job protecting that for another year or for the next generation or whatever it may be.

Yeah, absolutely, man. And I've had the privilege, and just for the folks listening, Pat and I talked a little bit before this recording and realized we had some mutual friends. And so like a mutual friend of both yours and mine, Jim Strickland, who owns a place that is very dear to me. And I've actually referenced it in this podcast before. And I even said it was on the, we did an episode on Pollinators. And I said something along the lines of, I wish you could take people out there to Blackbeards

and walk them through those prairies and let them see the wetlands. let them see the wild turkeys, let them see all these crazy shorebirds he has flying around there. And just like this, just this incredible place. And like, I do think sometimes when people hear the word farm or ranch, they, I'm not, I mean, obviously the commodity, the crop is part of it. But the wildlife side of it is overlooked, not by the farmer, but I think by people that are on the outside looking in sometimes.

And you did a fantastic job explaining that. And it was a perfect segue as well because you made mention stewarding the wildlife and the water. And the main point of us having this conversation today is so the last episode, we talked about this water issue that's going on in Florida. And, man, I don't want to, I don't want to try to steer you any certain direction. I don't want to lead the question or anything like that. I just I want to give you the opportunity. I'm a big believer in in sharing all perspectives of the story. And so from what was talked about last time,

and just to gloss over, we talked about the water in Okachovie, the canals that were built to go to, that go to the St. Lucy and Kaluza Hatchee rivers and these discharges and all these water quality issues, and that was all discussed in last episode. Yeah.

I just, I want to open the floor up to you and give you the chance to share your thoughts on it and your perspective from the farmer, rancher, from that point of view. Okay, so I appreciate it. I appreciate the opportunity to talk about this. And so what I really love for everybody to understand is the Everglades Restoration Project is the largest ecological restoration. project in the world. So in the world, we're talking about something that has never been done on the scale that we're talking about. So it's a pretty, pretty intensive project. I think there's, if you drill down into it, there's something like 30 federal and state agencies that are, that are involved. If you drill a little deeper into the impact, there's like over 250 if you get down to the

municipalities and cities and counties that are involved. So tremendous, so tremendous, this is a hurricane leap effort to try and restore, to restore this. But part of the project really is that gets left out a lot of times is it is for flood control. and it is for the ecological restoration, and it is also for the supply of water to the population of Florida, which obviously that includes agriculture, because we all have to eat, and sometimes crops have to be irrigated, and the flood control is a part of that in this region as well. So I guess I really just want to reiterate how, like I said earlier, how important it is for for farmers and ranchers to leave the land in a better place than they've had it.

And this is a complicated, complicated issue. But I will, since we're going to go back to that episode, I just want to lay a little bit more groundwork. one of your guests mentioned that they had come to Florida in 1978 and that kind of alluded to the fishing was great and all that everything was good then well a few things have happened in Florida since 1978 the population used to be nine million people it is now 24 million people tourism used to be around 20 million people annually now it's almost to 100 50 million people. We have over 2 million less acres of farmland and farmers have adopted

precision, fertilization, and best management practices that have drastically reduced any negative impact that we may have on the environment and water quality. And to go back to best management practices, I'd like to say that that is a voluntary program that farmers and ranchers enter into that it's administered by the Department of Ag Water Policy. So it's a pretty rigorous program. They have to follow it. It's checked up on and all of our practices are approved through the department. So I think when we talk about all those things that have happened in that time span, just the sheer number of people in Florida that, I mean, I guess if we could go back to 78, we probably, if we were going to realize that our population was going to far more

than double and that everybody was going to want to come to Florida, that, you know, we probably should have done some things differently, not just in agriculture, certainly, but, you know, just across the entire state. Because one part that's left out of just that sure, your population is most of those people are South Florida. So Orlando South, and they're along the coast and waterways. So there's a lot of what I call people problems here that are a real hurdle to the restoration and water quality. I really believe that actually I know that farmers and ranchers are actually have to be an

are a part of the solution to our water issues in Florida. As we lose more green space farmland, it's going to become exponentially harder to accomplish the goals that we want for the Everglades restoration. So agriculture is we are at the table, we are a part of the solution, we actually invest our own money in solving the issues. And I think a lot of times we just get painted with this broad brush that, you know, it's pretty, we're pretty easy to paint sometimes

simply because the likelihood of a fellow Floridian knowing a farmer or rancher is pretty low. So, you know, if you wanna, if you wanna pick a target that, that to paint as a, as a, as a, as a problem to fundraise off of or something, you know, pick the, pick the group with the smallest number of people. The only problem is that we are absolutely going to be a part of the solution and we have to stay viable and engaged and we want to. And we've been a part of that.

and conservation, most of the conservation efforts, certainly on land conservation in Florida, I mean, we have spent almost more political capital, if you want to call it that, in Tallahassee, fighting for, I mean, this is agriculture, the Florida cattlemen's or Farm Bureau fighting for funding for conservation easement programs and where those lands will be protected in perpetuity forever. You know, cattle have been in Florida since 1521 and we have a thousand people a day moving here now. We're at 24 million people.

It's never been more important than it is today to protect agriculture and protect the part of the that we can provide to clean water. And I really, I hate to ever, I told you this earlier, it's kind of always been in our DNA to, to sit down and have conversations with people, whether we always agreed or not, that we don't really like, we don't see the benefit of having an enemy anywhere. But it really does baffle me sometimes when folks just don't understand how much agriculture. We make our living off the land.

We have to have clean water. We absolutely have no intention and never have done anything. that would have been detrimental to water quality or wildlife. And certainly over time, we have gotten extremely, extremely good at doing things, utilizing less resources. Precision delivering of fertilizers to crops is absolutely paramount to agriculture. staying economically viable. I mean, what we have going on right now, I mean, with fuel prices and most people don't realize,

but fertilizer as well with the conflict that's going on in Iran and the implications of that, that hits farmers directly. And with, it certainly hits all of us directly with fuel prices, but with the commodities and things we need to grow the crops. For the nation, we are not wasteful with them. We utilize as limited amount as possible because every dollar that a farmer or rancher spends on fertilizer is a dollar that they don't have in their pocket. It's not something that is done in any way that would be, you know, wasteful. It's not, I mean, we don't just keep a pasture green like a garden.

off course just for the heck of it, for aesthetics. It has to make sense for us to do it. And I mean, that leads into kind of one of the problems we talk about with the sheer population of Florida. I mean, there's, there's probably a lot more fertilizer that's used in people's yards and golf courses and they look great. But, you know, they're a part of the problem as well as just, you know, our sheer numbers in Florida.

Last spring, Clay Newcomb and I collaborated with Jason Phelps at Phelps game calls and building each of our own favorite turkey diaphragms called prime cuts. Now, I'm going to tell you, I love mine because it's easy to use. I'm not going to go, I'm not going to win a turkey calling contest. It's just not going to happen. But when I run this call, I get the sounds that gobblers are looking for. I have a great turkey hunting track record. If you go listen to real turkeys out in the woods, they're not going to win calling contests, right?

That's who I listen to. I can make those sounds on my cut. I also hunt with Phelps's cut, and I hunt with Clay's cut because they're all three great cuts. Check out Prime Cuts at Phelpsgamecalls.com. I think you'll be glad you did, and you'll find out that the Steve Ronella cut is an easy-to-use cut for beginning callers who just want to start making good turkey noises

and getting action. let me ask you about so talking about when we talked earlier you you mentioned a little bit about you told me a little bit about your dad and i don't want to speak for you but i just thought some of the things that you shared were fascinating from just what he has seen from his time farming and how it's changed until now and how like the land ethic the land ethic the land ethic Has it really changed? No. Just there's been other circumstances that have changed, and I'd like to hear some of that.

Oh, yeah. So, you know, my dad graduated from the University of Florida in 1960 with an animal science degree. You know, part of your job as an extension agent is to help advise farmers and ranchers on the newest and latest practices that have been studied at the Land Grant University, University of Florida. trying to do the best thing for the land and the crop you're growing, right? So, I mean, the practices have drastically changed. I mean, certainly there's stuff, you know, in his time that we don't, we don't subscribe to anymore. Like that was, you know, it's just we don't, like I said, I'll do the easy. And we don't, nobody fertilizes like they used to.

It's unnecessary to do it that way when we have the technology to precisely put it right where we want it at the root system in the plant bed. You don't have to do that, and we don't. And that's why you've seen a lot of changes even down when we're talking about south of the lake. you know, honestly, most people think this is a fallacy, but it's just absolute truth. The water leaves those farms cleaner than when they receive it. I mean, they are literally cleaning the water that is coming on to their farms and ranches, and it is leaving cleaner than they receive it. It's, I mean, a lot of that is part of it, just changing practices, using,

utilizing best management practices, the technology that we have the advantage of today. I mean, and that's why I say the farms and ranches are absolutely, we have, we have absolutely stepped up with the technology that's available today and transformed the way that farming and ranching is done. And we've been doing that. We're always improving. The university is always researching. We advocate for those funds at the legislature, make sure that they're able to do the research so we can continue to improve. So we can continue to be the stewards of the land that, you know, like I said earlier,

that's ingrained in our DNA. Like we want to do those things. We expend the time and energy to learn from the research. We expend the time and energy to advocate for the fund. for the research and and we invest in that. And, you know, we talked about this, you know, that we all live in little bubbles sometimes. Agriculture is over here in their bubble and maybe the, you know, the charter boat guys on the coast or they live in their bubble of being a charter boat guy. And a lot of times that's part of the problem is not kind of crossing over and talking to each other and really seeing what goes on and what's really in their heart and what's in their mind and what they're really about.

So I, you know, like I said, I'm not for making an enemy of anyone, but I certainly think if you're going to speak on the top of. topics of clean water and the Everglades Restoration that you have to be willing to sit down with agriculture and have really relevant conversations and not just point fingers. Because, you know, with a thousand people of day moving here, you know, it's not going to get easier. We have to work together. We have to see that we honestly want apparently the exact same things in a lot of ways. And it's almost like you laughed. It's actually, when you're on my side, it can get maddening, but it is kind of comical at some point that, you know, I mean, I'm not going to lie.

Some of our people get really, really been out of shape when they hear something. stuff from from people when when they're like man I grew up here I'm seven generations we we love hunting and fishing that's literally if we could just go do that 24-7 we would do that but you know we we got to pay some bills in the meantime yeah you know yeah let me make sure I'm pretty sure I want to I understand you but let me make sure I hear you correctly, what of the points you're trying to make is, is basically because of the level of urban growth, I'll call it, that Florida is experiencing, you're saying that the farmer, the rancher, the ag guy that has these areas of green space need to be held of value because,

you know, if it's not for them, that's probably going to get turned into an apartment complex or housing or something like that. Am I understanding you correctly? Absolutely. I mean, for every, there's, I have never seen a farmer or a ranch that doesn't turn into a golf course, an apartment complex, a neighborhood, or a Walmart. I mean, that's literally, I mean, and it is, it is devastatingly sad as we see that happen. And another thing that I would like for the audience to really understand is, you know, a lot of people in agriculture are what we call land rich and cash poor. Well, what that means is it's taken generations and generations for that family to maybe have that farmer ranch paid for, probably still not paid for, probably borrowing money on it just to continue what they're doing. And the reality is with the population boom in Florida that has just, I mean, it is unheard of it.

It has continued for decades. This is not a recent problem. It is just continuing to be exacerbated that when a farmer rancher chooses to stay on that land and farm it and ranch it, that they should be applauded. I mean, they really should be applauded because the easier path, financially would absolutely be to sell out. I mean, it absolutely would be.

But that's where the big problem comes because it's in their DNA. They can't most of the time bear to do that. I mean, you know, when you're the, when you're the generation that, that decides to do that instead of doing what your grandfather and your great grandfather did before you, which was take care of that land and keep it in the family and

have that lifestyle. Like I said, like we do have a great lifestyle. We get to hang out in the woods, in the cabbage woods or are in the in the swamps or wherever and and make a living doing those things, you know. And so that is really what I think. keeps a lot of people in agriculture. In Florida, certainly on the ranching side, is just that heritage and that just,

I mean, I can't get away from it, just in our DNA that we are here to protect the land for the next generation and take care of the resources and make sure we leave it better than we find it. And I think if you sit down with almost any farmer rancher, that's gonna be paramount to, the way they make decisions and the way they think about generational transitions that happen in families and how they just really stress about trying to make sure that they can do that,

that they can pass it on to the next generation and keep that green space for all Floridians are going to benefit from that, certainly. and it's really hard. It's really hard for somebody that doesn't, that just use it as a, as an acre of land and a value, to comprehend that sometimes. Sure. I mean, I think what I'd say is take your most cherished item.

And it could be as simple as like my granddad gave me a pocket watch that I always thought was really cool. and there's you can't buy it from me. It's that. It's those kind of the things. That's how farmers and ranchers look at the land. I mean, in a lot of ways. Sure.

Do you mind? And I'm not asking you to go through all of them because I'm sure it's complicated. But like as far as like Pratt, you know, you mentioned there's some areas where, you know, if the water comes through this farm, the water's a better quality than when it got there. like are there certain practices or certain things that those farms or ranches are putting into place to to do something about the water quality? Are they like specific programs? Or what are they doing to aid in water quality directly? So you broke up on some of it, like. So best management practices, that program kind of dictates a lot of things.

And there's best management practice for cowcalf operations. They're specific to sod operations. They're specific to produce. And basically all the commodities have their own very specific, detailed guidelines that they follow. And that's what best management practices are solely. The purpose of them is for water quality and to ensure water quality. You know, so, I mean, there's, there's a ton of different things that, that, ways that happens.

I mean, there's water recharge areas on ranches that store water just naturally. There's public private partnerships on farms and ranches where they're storing water, you know, working with their water management district. You know, we have five districts, obviously the one we're talking about the most and generally has the most funding because it is important that it does because that's where a lot of the population is, the South Florida Water Management District. So farmers and ranchers work directly with them in specific programs that the water management district administer specifically, depending on which district you're in. There's cost share programs for changing practices, you know, like as simple as no-till drills, precision fertilizer applicator equipment and machines. There's, I mean, I don't know that there's a single thing to point out exactly because it is not looked at in a single-minded way.

is certainly a multi-prong shotgun approach to trying to improve in every facet that we do and looking at every practice that we do and ensuring that that's, you know, ensuring water quality as it leaves the farmer ranch. So it's kind of as complicated as the Everglades Restoration having, you know, 250 government regulatory entities involved in in trying to make it all come together. Sure. Sure. And that makes sense.

I was just trying to get, you know, if somebody was like wondering, like, well, what are they doing to help with water quality, which brings you back to like, what are the original points, right? Where you're saying, I wish you could take every Floridian out to do a farm tour. Because again, when you're saying what you're saying, I can line up with it directly because I've spent so much time on places like Jim Strickland's place where, I mean, I remember because the conversations I've had with him about Florida cattlemen's and the Florida Conservation Group, and he always, he would say these statements like showing that conservation and

agriculture can can coincide with one another quite easily, especially when you're carrying out actions like they do at that place. Yeah, and there's... So about, like... Yeah, go ahead. There's federal programs. I just hit on some of the state. NRC has.

a lot of programs. And it really is kind of dependent on your region and area, Florida, of which ones apply where. But I mean, there's, like I said, you know, there's the water management district has programs that everybody is involved in depending on their district. You have the state BMPs and then you have NRCS. And, you know, it's like I said, it's a really. It's a really multi-prong approach to ensuring that we are providing not only food and fiber for the nation, but that we're certainly maintaining high water quality for all Floridians.

Yeah. Right. Let me ask you this, and it may be going back a little bit. I just want to make sure we don't miss any details. Kind of like the crux of the last episode, the way it was framed up, is that, you know, Okachobi used to not have this dam around it. Now it's dammed up and you have these canals

and this freshwater gets dumped into these rivers and the water quality gets tanked. And it's really bad and something needs to be done about it. what is what is your take on that is that is that true is that is that is bad as it sounded what what's your take on that i mean honestly there are issues that need to be addressed and it would be nice like i said if we could snap our fingers and and solve those problems but we're this is where I have to go back to just the sheer herculean effort that we're talking about here with the with the Everglades Restoration Project and how it you know I mean we're talking about

from you know Orlando to the Keys this is a massive area and just the the sheer amount of water that we're talking about and it's not like Florida it we're not a dry, arid state. You know, we get a pretty good, pretty good bit of rainfall every year. And so I wish I could just say that, hey, just do X, Y, Z. But again, when you have the population we have and you have to worry about flood control and you have to also try and provide clean water for. for everyone and at the same time you're you're literally trying to figure out how we're going to

engineer this i mean i don't think people understand that that the delay in completing a lot of this stuff is is due to a lot of combinations it's it's not just uh the funding which is complex in itself uh i think if you look the state of florida in is actually above where the Everglades Restoration Act in funding, like Florida is funding. We are doing this. A lot of times the funding and projects get hamstrung by bureaucracy in Washington and the funding federally.

But there's also engineering challenges that complicate this. because again, this is the largest restoration project in the world. There's not really a model to go and say, hey, they did it over here. This is how we do it. This is extremely way above my pay grade, and no offense to the fishermen, it's above theirs too. This is complicated stuff to do and figure out. how we're going to do this without flooding a town and ensuring that we we actually are able to do the things that we want I mean sometimes you know a place

is dry and then all of a sudden it's it's you know waste deep in water and they didn't want that much water and we're not talking about we're not talking about farmland we're talking about in you know on tribal land and we're talking about in in the national park of the Everglades. It's complicated. And the reason that I keep saying that is obviously that we all have to be at the table. And you kind of got to quit throwing rocks and be a part of the solution and figure out how we're going to do this and see that, you know, hey, and I'm just going to speak for agriculture.

you're like, hey, you know, there was claims that you want more storage south of the lake. Okay, well, there's some, there's some agriculture that's down there trying to provide more storage below the lake. But then some of the same people that wanted storage south of the lake come out against a project. And sometimes I can only go, well, did you come out against it? because it was some ag guys that came up with it. And I mean, sometimes I'm baffled at how we move forward if we don't all sit down and understand that we're all a part of the process that we're working towards. We all have very similar goals when it comes to certain things.

We all want clean water. There is no one that doesn't want clean water. That is, I mean, anybody that gets painted that they don't want clean water is, that's just, show me who they are. Because I guarantee you they're not going to agree that they don't want clean water. There's, there, I don't know why anybody in Florida, you come to Florida because we have these natural resources. We have this great fishing ecosystem that you can go from freshwater to salt water. And I mean, you can pick and choose whether you want to be fishing in freshwater or saltwater or go hunt waterfowl or if you're a bird watcher, you know, go see birds or whatever you want to do in nature. like that is what makes Florida very unique.

And I understand everybody's passion for wanting to fight to save those things. But at the same time, you know, you have to understand that agriculture is absolutely just not the problem. We are absolutely part of the solution. As far as ranching goes, like I said, 1521. We've been ranching in Florida, you know. You know, there used to be, at one time there was a million people in Florida, and there were no problems, right? With all this. You know.

Yeah. But, you know, just our sheer population and the growth, which I want to reiterate, I'm really, we are private property rights. So we kind of want to protect if you own a place and you and everything, you've got rights. You bought it. You paid tax. is on it and you have rights. But at the same time, you know, I just sometimes get baffled at the blame of the blame game is really unproductive generally.

And it really, honestly, a lot of times cost, and I'm going to say cost, and I'm not even worrying about the cost to agriculture. I'm talking about the cost to state and federal funds. It costs tax. We spend more tax dollars sometimes just battling over legal maneuvering to get a project going or done or started. Then the project should even cost. I mean, and at some point in time, everybody's got to sit down and say, these are our goals. and agree that we have to move forward and that agriculture is a part of that.

I mean, certainly, you know, I'll say, which I really didn't want to go this way because it's kind of like, but it is. You know, you don't find human fecal matter in the water coming from a farm. That's from people. You don't find drug residue from drugs that are consumed. I mean, medical necessary things that are consumed by humans in the water from a farmer ranch. I mean, we have a problem with growth and how we're going to deal with that and how we're going to manage to provide flood control and water quality. but I will again go back to the absolute agriculture wants to be absolutely is a part of the solution to that. We can be a part of that.

Public-private partnerships I think are a huge way to move forward with some of this stuff. And I just really believe that some people would like to make. make enemies and point to some evil doer somewhere. And I hate to break it to everybody, but it's all of us. So it's, it's for all of us to, uh, to, to, to move forward and, and sit down and try and navigate all this to make it better for the next generation. And the reason I take that mindset is because that's the same mindset that my grandfather gave me when it comes to to our piece of Florida, right? And so I really see that as the

only way to really move forward and solve these problems is for for us to sit down, quit pointing fingers and, you know, and find real solutions that are viable. And agriculture will absolutely be a key part of that. Because every time we lose another acre, the farmland, it is a detriment to the actual goal of what we're talking about here. Last spring, Clay Newcomb and I collaborated

with Jason Phelps at Phelps game calls in building each of our own favorite turkey diaphragms called prime cuts. Now, I'm going to tell you, I love mine because it's easy to use. I'm not going to go, I'm not going to win a turkey calling contest. It's just not going to happen.

but when I run this call, I get the sounds that gobblers are looking for. I have a great turkey hunting track record. If you go listen to real turkeys out in the woods, they're not going to win calling contests, right? That's who I listen to. I can make those sounds on my cut. I also hunt with Phelps's cut,

and I hunt with Clay's cut because they're all three great cuts. Check out Prime Cuts at Phelpsgamecalls.com. I think you'll be glad you do. did and you'll find out that the Steve Ronella cut is an easy to use cut for beginning callers who just want to start making good turkey noises and getting action. So just to sum it up, it's like this issue, like it's a real issue, but it's very, very, very, very complicated. And yeah, I mean, extremely complicated. Yeah, I think we could get some, we could get a room full of, uh,

environmental engineers and everybody else in here. And I think we could sit down and talk for months. And we would still be working on because that's what's been going on. But, I mean, again, like I said, clean water depends on working with farmers, not against them. And we want to be a part of that solution. We feel like we're an integral part of that solution. and and we actually are working on that, and we have continued to work on that.

We will continue to work in that, in that method to be a part of the solution. But I think it's, you know, there are groups out there that literally raise money and you have to have an enemy sometimes to raise money and you have to point the finger at somebody. and sometimes, you know, that makes it really, really difficult if you have to point the finger at everybody. Because, you know, and so they're really, everybody needs to come to the conclusion that we all can be a part of the solution. But agriculture is absolutely an integral part of how this moves forward and how it works. because just of the sheer fact that we have in private ownership a tremendous number of acres that are green space, that are beneficial to this.

And they have to be protected in that manner or we won't be able to do these things. Right. I'll, man, I'll tell you something that I, it's a statement that I heard from Jim Handley, who I know, you know, he's a dear friend. And I knew Jim as a turkey hunter before I knew him anything connected to Florida cattle. And I was asking him about this subject. And I'm not going to say it's verbatim. I'm probably going to butcher it a little bit. But what he said to me was, he said, I feel like a lot of times people like to point the.

finger at the cowman, the farmer as the enemy when all we've done over the years is get better at our land practices. Absolutely. And certainly Mr. Jim Hanley is a gem of a human. And I'm sure he said it. No offense to you like, but I'm sure he said it in a very witty and one-liner way. because he is the master of the one-liners. But absolutely.

I mean, and very passionate. Very, very passionate outdoorsman just absolutely loves it. But was, you know, he's retired now from the Cattlemen's Association. But for 27 years, I would call him the range boss. And, you know, and he had a passion. for trying to tell that story that you're, you know, we're trying to do a little part of today of, of that, you know, that we're, that ranchers are absolutely, you know, we care about the environment. We, we absolutely, um, live it and breathe it every day and, and that he is, he is

absolutely, uh, correct in, in what he said. another friend we mentioned earlier that I'm just going to throw him out there is Fred Feneasy. Another, I mean, you talk about somebody that lives and breathes outdoors, but, you know, cattlemen. I mean, I don't. He's a, he is a dear friend. He is a dear, dear friend for folks that have listened to a lot of the show, like Fred's been talked about on here before, but Fred is a same deal. I knew Fred is an outdoorsman before I knew anything of his connection. agriculture. Yeah, I have to say this because I always tell Fred this. When I grow up, I want to

be Fred Finisi because that guy gets to do some awesome stuff in the outdoors for sure. Man, just to kind of bring it home, so to speak, with the kind of question. And unless you have, I'll ask this last question and you can answer it. And then if you have anything else you want to add, feel free. I'm on no one's schedule. I'm on no one's schedule. I'm on no one schedule, but yours. But my question is if I were to tell you to looking ahead optimistically, you know, if I said, man, use all the optimism you got and look forward into the future of Florida, looking at it from a lens, from water quality, from wildlife, from green space, what would you like to see as a path forward for the state of Florida? I know that's a broad question, but I feel like

it's one that needs to be asked. Okay. No, so honestly, so, you know, we've kind of been a little doom and gloom on, on some of the realities that we have to face in Florida, but we have a program called Rule and Family Lands Protection Act in Florida that is administered through the Department of Agriculture, the Florida Department of Agriculture. And what it does is it kind of, it buys the development rights from farms and ranches. So it stays in agriculture and green space in perpetuity. So programs like that and fully funding programs like that, I mean, we're talking about billions of dollars that need to be allocated for this

and, you know, obviously water projects to do this. But I am so optimistic with the progress that has been made over the last few years with that program. There's others. There's Florida Forever that's administered through DEP in Florida. and they are just really great programs that I think if the public understood fully that we would never have to go to Tallahassee again, the public would demand it for us. And things like that are what I'm optimistic about Florida staying, the Florida that I've grown up in, as much as it can, the population continues to grow.

I mean, I certainly think there's certainly a raging back-and-forth battle sometimes on development and growth. And I think we need to be very, very responsible with those things. And we need to really do a good job of trying to make sure that we're doing that in a way that's very responsible to the resources and the delicate environment that we do have here in Florida. I mean, because it really is very unique place. I mean, that is why I think everybody is so passionate about it.

No matter what side, it seems like somebody's on, you know, I'm actually okay with passion. Like, they're passionate about, you know, saving the outdoors and water. and wildlife. Well, guess what, man, so are we. We've been doing that for seven generations in my family here. I mean, welcome to the party. You know, I just think sometimes we come from such different places that we don't realize that we're actually should be more on the same team,

and we probably get a lot more done sometimes. You know, I think. So I'm really optimist about things like that. I guess the one thing you kind of have to be in agriculture as a farmer or rancher is you have to have to have optimism. You have to say, boy, you know what? It hadn't rained yet, but I hope it's going to rain tomorrow. You know, and we just keep on going. And it's really because we love what we do.

And that's the one thing that I really wanted to convey to your audience is just a passion. I mean, our people are so passionate about these things. I really think there's a few other things like that we could do payment for environmental services. There's a lot of talk of things like that. There are some programs out there. I think there's a lot of things like that that could be beneficial to the future of wildlife and things in Florida. I really believe that if everybody, if we could do, off that tour for 24 million people and take them to a farmer ranch, I think they would be,

they would be amazed. They would go, wow, this is not, I didn't realize I was going to walk into a place that is a, that is a paradise for wildlife. I mean, like you said, you've been, I don't know if you've only been to Strickland's place or not, but again, you know, every ranch across the state is you know, I mean, a little bit laid out different here or there depending on their operation. But basically, you know, you can find that same mentality and that same passion for the land and wildlife, you know, all across the state with our people. And I think it's important. And, you know, it's just like anything, you know, when you get 24 minutes, million people, you're going to have

difference of opinions on things, but I think if everybody was to really look and say, what group out there, what group of people out there

have been stewards of the land and have cared for the land and have a proven track record You can go there and you can see the wildlife. You can see that they work to protect it, to help Mother Nature do what she can do. You would look at agriculture and you would say, that's the guys right there.

That's the men and women right there that have the blood, sweat, and tears behind caring for a piece of property for generations. and if we could ever convey that and they could, you know, see into the hearts of people of agriculture, they'd go, man, hold on. If I care about those things, then I need to support those people. And I need to see, you know, how I can help be a part of making sure that they stay economically viable and able to continue to do that. Yeah. No, that all makes sense, man. And I do think it adds some needed perspective to the conversation. I really do.

And it did help. I agree. We did get a little bit doom and gloom. I feel like we had to go there just to address some, just to address some certain things. But I always like pulling it together on an optimistic note, if that's real. You know, if you weren't, you know, if you were honestly like, man, I'm not very optimistic, but talking to you before, I mean, I know and feel that you are. And we need, you know, you got to be optimistic, you know, and I think y'all have a lot of things going for you just through the several things that you listed off already. Is there, is there anything that we didn't cover that you would like to touch on?

No, I mean, I guess I would say that hopefully, you know, I conveyed, you know, where farmers and ranchers in Florida, what's in their heart and what they're passionate about. I'm not unique in any way, shape, or form. That's literally, I mean, I feel like I don't even know how much you know I kind of went back and forth about the podcast. what I needed to do or say, and it's really because I feel the weight of all the families that are a part of agriculture in Florida. And I wanted to make sure to convey that message that they are passionate. They care about the land. They care about water.

They want and have always done what they thought was the right thing for those things. And all I know is, hey, if you hear that story and you're still want to say we're the bad guy or I'm the bad guy, well, you know, I don't know how to have the conversation move forward, somebody like that. I think if they really, if they really listen, they'll actually understand that if that's something they care about, that, that they need to sit down with us and they need to, you know, kind of try and figure out a way that we can all move forward in a positive way for Florida. Yeah. No, man, this clearly means something to you, and it's clear that you're talking about a group of people that it means something to. And that's important. It's important for the for the sake of the story and the people listening. It's important that you hear that perspective.

And I appreciate that. And I'm glad we, I'm very glad we got that perspective. Oh, I forgot. We did hit on that one time. This is totally out of sync. It just popped in my head what I told you on the phone a couple of days ago about the changes. Like, you know, there were, it was an open. range when my dad was was was a kid right and you know I told you the story about you know

when he was 10 years old on his on his 10th birthday testified in federal court in a cattle rustling case because he identified the the cattle rustler or the cattle he didn't know who stole them he just identified the cattle but either way I mean that's one generation I mean we've had a lot of changes in Florida and in that time span. So, I mean, we certainly have some work to do and everything. But it's a lot of the negative impacts are certainly just surely because of the changes and the growth. I mean, it's undeniable.

I mean, we can't. So we have to be look at how we're going to responsibly move forward. Like I said, there's a lot of people that care a lot about this issue. And I think there's a tremendous number of experts. Like we didn't drill down into the technical issues of all this, but there's certainly, you know, we have people on staff at cattlemen that we rely on for those experts. and on the environmental side and and certainly so does Farm Bureau and the other ag

organizations and those people are solely because this I mean this is a very technical issue when you when it comes down to it yeah and we're we're farmers and ranchers we're not necessarily always engineers so we rely on them environmental engineers and and stuff for for for for advice as well and we you know and we try and do the right thing and and so I guess my my thing to anybody out there in in a group that's kind of you know you feel like you've been in the in the fight if you if you will for for a lot of these things you know maybe maybe pull back a little bit and and and think about what we all care about and that it could be more beneficial for everyone if we gain some perspective

and maybe did a little more working together and not worry about who gets the credit for it. I want to thank all of you for listening to Backwoods University, as well as Bear Greece and this country life. It means so much to all of us over here. If you like this episode, share it with a friend this week. And stick around. There's a whole lot more on the way. First Lights fieldwear collection is made for the work that happens long before opening day and continues when the season ends.

Products built for early mornings, full days in real use. Hard wearing where they need to be versatile where it matters. No shortcuts. Just gear designed for the work that earns the same. season. Built to perform, built to last. Check out. First Lights new fieldware gear at firstlight.com.