Bear Grease - Ep. 464: Backwoods University - Justice Scalia

Episode Date: June 8, 2026

Antonin Scalia, whether you agreed or disagreed with him, was inarguably one of the most influential Americans in modern history due to his position as supreme court Justice for almost 30 years. However, in this part 1 of this series we will get the rare opportunity to see this man in way you may have never seen him before. Come along as we journey down to the place where Scalia first found his love for the outdoors and hunting, and see how that same love became used a connective tissue for even the most distant of ideologies. Fill out our listener survey for a chance to win $500 gift card to the MeatEater Store: themeateater.com/grease Connect with Lake Pickle and MeatEater Lake Pickle on Instagram MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, and YouTube Clips MeatEater Podcast Network on YouTubeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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It supports the work that earns the season. Check out First Lights new fieldware collection at firstlight.com. Welcome to Backwoods University, a place where we focus, on wildlife, wild places, and the people who dedicate their lives to conserving both. I want to give a big shout out to Onyx Hunt for their support of this podcast. I'm your host, Lake Pickle. And I'm just going to come right out and tell you. This episode is special.

And it's a lot different for many of the episodes we've done in the past. From the stories you will hear to the man who we will focus on whose influence on America simply cannot be overstated to the celebration of hunting and the outdoors as a connection. active tissue that transcends even the most distant of ideologies. My gracious, friends, do we ever have some ground to cover? Let's dive into it. He first came here, as Judge Pickering has told you, to make a deer hunting, insuff far as I know, he'd never killed a deer.

He certainly didn't act like it. And over here, where I'll take you, if you'd like to go. That morning, right after daylight, I heard a shot. I said, I believe I wait a few minutes before I go up there. And I did. And maybe 10 minutes later, I heard another shot. I said, I waited another 10 minutes. Then I heard a third shot.

And I decided I better go up there. Something must be wrong. And I did go up there. What happened, Justice? He said, well, my rifle is not on. Must have bumped it on the way down here. He said, I shot it just this deal right over here, and he pointed to three different places. I said, Justice, if you don't mind, let me just make sure you didn't hit that deer.

David, I didn't hit the deer. My rifle is off. I said, yes, sir. But please just let me go check. And I did, and I had a dog with me, a mountain curb. Turn that dog out, and he found that first deer. I said, well, what about the second deer, Justice? Show me exactly where he was.

I know I didn't hit him. He never showed any sign of being shot. I turned the dog out and found that book. Same thing with the third book. We had three. As far as I know, those were the first deer of Justice Scalia killed. And the fact that he killed three on one day, the statute of limitations was run on that. Yeah.

Now that is a fantastic story. It has everything. Comedy. A first successful deer hunt. and the fantastic irony that the subject of this story is not only the centerpiece of this podcast episode, but the one and only former Supreme Court Justice Antonine Scalia that accidentally shot three deer in a single morning. And believe me, the story only gets better from here. But now that the ice has been broken, allow me to properly set the stage before we go any further.

The United States Supreme Court, a panel of nine judges that is in arguably the most, powerful court system in the entire country. Cases such as Brown versus Board of Education, Roe versus Wade, United States versus Nixon, Bush versus Gore, some of these cases may sound familiar to some of you. Some of them you may not have ever heard of. And I'm just listing off a few of them here. But the point I'm trying to make is that the judges that serve on this court are responsible for making decisions that collectively shape the legal and social landscape of the good sole US of A in an undeniably profound way. That's just a fact. A seat on the Supreme Court only becomes vacant by three ways. A sitting justice either dies, retires, or is removed through

impeachment. Allow me to introduce you to Justice Antonine Scalia, a man whose name you're probably already familiar with. He was born in 1936 to an Italian immigrant father and an Italian American mother. He grew up in Queens, New York, and even attended high school in Manate. He went to college at Georgetown University and received a law degree from Harvard, and then subsequently spent a few years practicing law, teaching, and even serving in the Nixon and Ford administrations in various Justice Department roles. In 1982, President Ronald Reagan appointed Scalia to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit. This is considered by many to be one of the most prestigious courts in the federal system and a common pathway that leads to the Supreme Court. This is a CBS News special report. Here is Dan Rather.

President Reagan is expected to appear in the White House briefing room very shortly to announce a new Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court. Here is the President of the United States. And I'm pleased to announce my intention to nominate William H. Rehnquist, currently an associate justice of the Supreme Court, as the new Chief Justice of the United States. Upon Justice Rehnquist confirmation, I intend to nominate Antonia. Scalia, currently a judge of the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit as Justice Rehnquist's successor. In taking this action, I am mindful of the importance of these nominations. The Supreme Court of the United States is the final arbiter of our Constitution

of the meaning of our laws. As a new nominee, as much as you can say about your... Yes, on the substance of it, I think I'm with Justice Rehnquist. I know a good idea when I hear one. What about your personal thoughts, then? My personal thoughts are for somebody who spent his whole professional life in the law. Getting nominated to the Supreme Court is the culmination of a dream, of course. And I'm greatly honored that the president would have such confidence in me and hope that the Senate will do so as well. And I'll certainly do whatever I can to live up to it.

In 1986, President Reagan nominated Scalia to the Supreme Court, where he was confirmed by a 98 to zero unanimous vote. Justice Scalia served on the Supreme Court from 1986 until his unexpected death in 2016, just shy of 30 years of service. He was known for his sharp and colorful writing, his quick wit, and his dominant presence during oral arguments. What do you think is the reason that America is such a free country?

What is it in our Constitution? that makes us what we are. If the difference is between constitutionality and unconstitutionality, do you know of any case where this court said, gee, on its face, this statute could be constitutional, but the legislative history requires us to interpret it in such a fashion that it's unconstitutional. Can you give me one case where we've done that? No, but I can think of the word constitution.

It doesn't mean a bill. It means structure. Say a person has a sound constitution. Here's a sound structure. But it was also known for his humility and charge. friends of his are quoted in saying that he was always the smartest man in the room, but also the kindest. In this episode, we're going to take a deep look into the life of not only a man,

but a Supreme Court Justice of the United States, a cherished friend by many, a true icon in American history, as well as a hunter and an outdoorsman. And I'm going to challenge all of you as we march towards this topic to approach this episode with an open mind. because the very fine folks that are going to help us tell this story are going to paint Justice Antonine Scalia in a way that you may have never seen him before. Let's get into it. It's late May, and I'm walking into an old cabin situated in the middle of a hunting property in South Mississippi. But this is no ordinary hunting camp. This camp has quite the story to tell.

Wyoming Plantation. Wyoming Plantation, the property where the three deer and a day story that you heard earlier took place. And I'm now being shown the cabin that Justice Scalia would stay in during his trips down here. It didn't like it wasn't even there. The camp is quaint. Its layout and interior decor are that of a quintessential old school southern deer camp. He slept in that bunk on the backs back that lake on the right. Justice Scalia did?

Right. That was his bunk. Did you have the mattress on it then? I think it did. I remember it. It was pretty hard, though. I think they may have put a softer mattress on that. Which one was his?

Right there to your right. Right here. Right there, bottom bunk. And what was the first year that he would have come here? 2000. 2000. Was it 2000? Yes, sir.

He came in December 2000. Back then, the only heat here was that stove over there. And since that time, he put some more heat in here. But that private stove was the only heat. He wanted to put his own wood in that, which is what he did, and he chopped his own wood. Not every time, but sometimes he'd like to do that. Just because he wanted to?

Just because he wanted to. We didn't make him to do it, I can tell you that. He would get up at night and put wood in the fireplace. Right, he'd get up at night and come over in and put the wood in the bottom. But he was comfortable here. Oh, he loved the place. Bunk beds to make room for multiple hunters, TV trays as nightstands, Deer antlers and property maps hanging from the wood panel walls and an old wood stove in the living area.

This is the kind of camp that to me feels like a perfect mix of right at home and a 1990s filled and stream article all at the same time. It's perfect. And I loved everything about it. It's truly one of those places that you can sense the stories and memories that it holds the second you step foot inside it. And speaking of those stories, it's time we heard some of them. But first, let's meet the men who are going to tell them to us. I'm Charles Pickering. I'm retired from the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals and formerly a U.S. District Judge. I'm Wesley Breland from Hattiesburg.

I'm in the real estate business. David Bramlett of the United States District Judge Natchez. Can you explain to me where we're at right now? Well, we're in the southern part of Wilkinson. County, the name of the property is Wyoming and where it got the name, I don't know. But it's across Bayousa or Creek, as you saw when you came in here. Sort of in the hinterlands of the county, there's only one road in. There is a road through the back if you have to use it.

Difficult to get here sometime if there's bad weather. But that's where we are. How long have you been here? We came here and about, I've been here many years since I was a child hunting here, but we were able, my family was able to purchase it in about 1985. You'll learn as we go further into this episode that these are some special men that we're hearing from. From the importance of their positions to society to their actions that are reflective of their character. I grew nothing but admiration for all of them throughout this conversation. Let's hear now how Justice Scalia fits into all of this.

Justice Scalia was the member of the Supreme Court that was assigned to the Fifth Circuit. And the Fifth Circuit included Texas, Louisiana, and Mississippi. And we would have a fifth circuit meetings, and Justice Scalia would be there. And the University of Southern Mississippi, my chamber for in, was it, my chamber for in Hattiesburg, And the University of Southern Mississippi called me and said, can you get Justice Scalia to come and speak? And I invited him, and he turned me down. Next year I invited him, he turned me down.

And then I went to see him the next time we were meeting, and I said, Mr. Justice, if you will come speak at USM, we'll give us some bass fishing and turkey hunting. And he accepted that time. He was interested in that. He was interested. So he came to speak at the University of Southern Mississippi, and that's how we started our relationship.

with Justice Scalia. I suppose it goes without saying, but someone isn't going to make it on the Supreme Court without having some high-level intelligence and holding out on saying yes to a speaking engagement until a little fishing and turkey hunting is thrown in to sweeten the deal. Well, now that's my kind of intelligence. My SUV's worth more than ever. Time to upgrade? There's never been a better time. At Plaza Auto Group locations get top value for your trade and shop hundreds of new and pre-owned vehicles across 11,000.

locations. And if you can't come to us, we'll come to you. With best in class pricing, unbeatable trade values, and 70 years of trust. It's easy to see why families choose the Plaza Auto Group. Plaza Auto Group, celebrating 70 years family owned and operated. Visit Plaza Auto Group.com. Let's be honest about the kind of work that earns a season. It's not glamorous. Scouting, hanging cameras, cutting lanes, fixing fences, packing, practice, prep, the stuff that doesn't get noticed, the difference. That's what first light fieldware is designed for. Fieldware is made for the work that happens long before opening day and continues long after the season ends. Every piece is built for real use. No shortcuts. Hard wearing where it needs to be versatile where it matters.

Built to handle varied tasks and the demands of doing things the right way. If you live in preparation, fieldware belongs in that routine. Check out first light. its new fieldware collection at firstlight.com. When he first came, we started hunting with, I did not have enough land to hunt turkeys on whenever he came. So I got my friend Wesley Breeland and Lewis Griffin to help me entertain Justice Scalia. And Wesley Breeland had two places,

one in Hattiesburg and one around Purvis on Black Creek. and so Lewis's place was up at Clark Co, which was on a Clark, Lauderdale County line. And Lewis's place was called A-boat, and it was just a, they'd framed it in, and then take a plywood and fix the walls, and then they had put tar paper on the outside, and that was it.

And he loved going to A-Bolt, bolt. And he and Lewis loved to sit on the front porch and smoke a cigar or cigarette

and drink a little scotch. But it was a simple place. And so we first started hunting at A Bolt and at

Wesley's Lakehouse and then Wesley had a on Clear Creek. So that's where we hunted. And then

Judge Bramlett was chairman of a committee to put on a workshop at Lafayette for the district judges.

And he asked me if I would get Justice Scalia to come down and speak to it, and I did. So Judge Bermanagh said, well, we can go up to my place at Wyoming and deer hunt. And so that's what we did. That's when we got started here. That's how we got started here. And the four of y'all hunted together for how many years? 20 years. Take me back to, so, I mean, when you think about the Supreme Court justice

and just knowing what I know about. about Scalia, you know, when I had heard of him, of being, you know, other, he wasn't just Supreme Court Justice. He was Supreme Court Justice that liked to hunt and fish, which to someone like me, that was, that was intriguing. I was like, really? A guy in his position likes to hunt and fish. When you, when you met him and you originally extended that invite, did you know that he would even have an interest there to do that? Not really. It was just on And he had not fished that much before. I think he had fished some, but I don't think he had done very much hunting.

Really? I think we sort of introduced him to hunting. And on the way back, I'd started to say a while ago, when we started taking him back after the first trip, I'd intended to invite him back. And before we got to the airport at Lewis Griffin, said, Mr. Justice, we hope you'll come back. He said, I'll come if you'll have me. Little did we know that from the next 20 years, we were going to be.

hunt together one to three times a year for 20 years. It's a strong friendship. Yes. And that's, to me, man, that's so interesting. Because, again, when I was young and hearing about him, I knew of Scalia as being this outdoorsman. And I know y'all, just from the time that I've spent around, the three of you, you all, y'all are all humble men.

But, I mean, I would have never, it's plausible. I would have never known him as that had y'all not taking him on those trips. And, you know, he told us when we started, you know, we'd get at 4 o'clock in the morning and drive where we're going hunting and so forth. And somewhere along the way, he said, Charles, if we're going to hunt together, you need to call Mino. The name Nino is a common Italian nickname for Antonin. Justice Scalia was given this nickname as a child. Close friends and family called him Nino throughout his life, and he clearly embraced it. However, trying to put myself in this situation, I imagine I would be pretty uneasy being so candid.

with one of the most powerful judges in the world. But I will say this one little detail does speak volumes to the man's humility. Well, I was a young judge, what to call a baby judge, and that was very awkward. Mr. Justice, you know, Your Honor. But eventually, we were killed enough that it got very comfortable to call him Nino. Because when he came to the Grand Ole Lopery, my wife and I and his wife, he would have the marshal's care of pizza place or somewhere to eat, and we spent a lot of time with Nino and with Maureen, his wife.

And then I had his cell phone and his office number, and I could call him and talk to him when I wanted to. So he became a very close friend. It's clear from hearing the way that Judge Pickering speaks of Justice Scalia that he deeply valued the man and his friendship. And a friendship that was all brought about by a simple invite to come down to Mississippi to bass fish and turkey hunt. I'm curious about what Mr. Breeland and Judge Bramlett's early impressions of Justice Scalia were as well.

Y'all two gentlemen. Tell me about what some of the early interactions with him was like. I mean, let's start with you, for example. You get a phone call from him saying that Justice Scalia is coming down and he wants to come turkey hunting. What was your first interactions with him like? Well, amazement from a poor Perry County country ball. to be able to meet to justice. But the first time we went hunting was on my place.

We had a turkey goblin fairly close to us. And there was a bush hog trail coming from where the turkey was roosted to where we were sitting. And I would have bent my house that he was fixing to keep. kill that turkey. But just before he got in shooting range, a hen flew down out of a tree right in

front of the turkey. And we never heard or saw the turkey again. So he didn't get to shoot a turkey that was a gimme. But he enjoyed it.

You know, the challenge of the challenge of turkey hunting from the ground at that time. So I was surprised that he chose to come back. Now, I have to admit, due to my own personal bias, I really do love the fact that his first time hunting down here in Mississippi and quite possibly his first time hunting altogether, although I don't know that for sure, was a spring turkey hunt.

And he all know how I feel about spring turkeys. And a turkey hunt that resulted in a roosted gobbler and a surefire setup getting spoiled by a hen at the last minute, but getting close enough that you get to hear and see the turkey just enough that the new hunter is hooked for life, man, it doesn't get any more classic than that. I was curious about Judge Bramlett's early interactions with Justice Scalia as well. Now, it is important to note that his very first hunting interaction with him was the accidental three deer morning that we heard about at the top of the show. However, he has a whole lot more early memories to go along with that one. If I had called him, Nino, my father would have come out of his grave to correct me.

I always called him just as Wesley did. He brought with him Chris Larkin, that was his relative from New Orleans, you remember, Judge, and Louis Prejean. Yes. And that morning, I told him as just... Judge Pickering said to you earlier, we need to kill some doves. Lewis killed three to make a long story short. I loaded 11 up in the back of my truck. Oh my gosh.

I got a picture of it right here. Of them with the 11 deer? Right. 11. We never talked about the law. The only case that he mentioned to me was the VMI case. and he had strong feelings about that. And I believe Justice Ginsburg was on the other side in that case.

I know he was in the minority, but you remember that case. It was about females at VMI, the details of which I don't remember. That's the only case we ever talked about in all the 16 years I was with him. So was it, correct me if I'm wrong, do you kind of get the sense that when he came down here he didn't want to talk about that? He just kind of wanted to disconnect? I think he would have talked about it, not telling me anything that he shouldn't have, but I didn't want to bring it up, and he didn't either.

He wanted to talk. He was interested in everything. What kind of trees are these? He wanted to know everything about the flora and the fauna, everything about Mississippi, and he'd heard so much about it as everybody else had. And he was amazed at the racial harmony that we had, beginning, you know, in the late 1990s. Yes, sir. The 1960s were gone.

And I have photographs here of the justice with some of my African-American friends. There's one right there. And he enjoyed talking to them. So that's my best recollection about times together. And we did have many in other places like Judge Pickering was kind enough to invite me to Florida, South Carolina. You know, Justice Scalia, and he really was very fond of Judge Bremlett. And one of the reasons that he was so fond of Judge Bamblitt is that he found a kindred spirit. Judge Bermelette was curious.

Judge Skailea was curious, and he was amazed at how much Judge Rameleet knew about animals and plants and everything. And both of them were very curious. I don't think he minded talking about cases and so forth because now he wouldn't have told us anything about pending cases, but I don't think he minded. While I can't help but appreciate how quickly Justice Scalia seemed to take a strong love for the outdoors, I'm more impressed by how much impact he had on all three of these men, and frankly, how much of an impact that they had on him. It's clear that all of these guys were close friends. And as a born and raised Mississippian, on a personal note, it does my heart good to know that. that Mississippi and the American South put its best foot forward when Justice Scalia came down.

We're going to go ahead and round off part one of this series. And yes, plot twist, this is a two-parter. Frankly, there's just too much good stuff and key points to try to squeeze into one episode and still do it justice. But we're going to finish today's episode off with another quite humorous story from Justice Scalia's hunting adventures. Wesley, you'll remember one thing about him. He was very competitive. Oh, yeah, very much. You knew more about that than I did. Tell me about that. Tell him about how competitive he was.

We tried to not shoot anything until he did. Now, did he know about this arrangement that you were trying to... No. It was an unspoken thing between y'all three. Like, we're going to try to let Justice kill one first. Oh, yeah. And we learned early on that if you were turkey hunting with Justice Scalia, he was not going to kill a turkey unless you had him in a blind or shooting house.

Why was that? He couldn't stay still. Oh, he couldn't. He moved a lot. And so we hunted with, you know, Red Hancock trucking. They had some great hunting land, and they invited us to bring you over there. And I was going out with one guy, and another guy carried him out. I told him, I said, you've got to get him in a shooting house.

He said, oh, I can handle it. When I got back in, he said, you were right. He said he was constantly moving that rifle back and forth or moving. He just couldn't stay still. And you could tell him, Mr. Justice, you need to be still. You still move. I hope all of you are enjoying this different look at Justice Antonine Scalia as much as I am. And believe me, we haven't even gotten to the best part yet.

And that's a fact. I want to thank all of you for listening to Backwoods University, as well as Bear Greece in this country life. And hey, by the way, all you find folks that choose to listen to this podcast feed, we want to hear from you. What do you like? What do you not like? How can we improve this show for you? Y'all are the ones that matter most in this equation anyway.

Go to the meat eater.com slash grease. Now, fill out the survey, let us know your thoughts, and as an added, thank you, you'll be entered to win a $500 gift card to the meat eater store. Respond by June 14th to make sure that your voice is heard. And be sure to tune in next time for part two of this series. If you do off-season work, you know what beats up gear. scouting, land work, crawling through briar patches, brush, weather,

long days. First Light fieldware is built for all that. No shortcuts. Purpose built, durable. Hard wearing where it needs to be versatile where it matters. It supports the work that earns the season. Check out First Light's new fieldware collection at

firstlight.com.