Bear Grease - Ep. 465: Render - Mules, Bears, and the Civil War

Episode Date: June 10, 2026

Host Clay Newcomb and Render regulars Bear Newcomb, Dr. Misty Newcomb, and Josh "Landbridge" Spielmaker are joined by Michael Rosamond of Sun Spot Lights and retired Missouri game warden and Renaissance man Kyle Carrol as they continue their Civil War discussion by examining the lives of Abraham Lincoln and Robert E. Lee. The conversation also highlights just how recent Civil War history really is, featuring a firsthand family connection of Michael Rosamond to a woman whose mother was born into slavery. But that's not all! Hear about Clay's runaway mules, exciting details of Bear's recent Alaskan bear hunt, and foreshadowing of Clay's upcoming book American Bear. Fill out our listener survey for a chance to win $500 gift card to the MeatEater Store: themeateater.com/grease Thank you to our sponsor, Tecovas. If you have comments on the show, send us a note to [e-mail] Connect with Clay and MeatEater Clay on Instagram MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, and Youtube Clips MeatEater Podcast Network on YouTube Shop Bear Grease MerchSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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No shortcuts. Purpose built, durable. Hard wearing where it needs to be versatile where it matters. It supports the work that earns the season. Check out First Lights new fieldwear collection at firstlight.com. My name is Clay Newcomb, and this is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called the Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual Bear Grease podcast. Brought to you by Tachovas Boots.

I'm a cowboy boot man, and I've been wearing Tocobas for years. They're the most comfortable boot I've ever put on. Good boots for good times. The world wouldn't know it, but we're starting about 50 minutes late. Okay. And we have some very distinguished guests today, so I owe them my deepest apologies. This is a complicated story, Michael. And so our guest today, sitting in the Toccova's hot seat today, is Kyle Carroll.

Glad to be here. From Missouri. Yes. Kyle is, it's hard to describe what you are. You're a former game warden. Yes. You're an artist. Yes.

You're a hunter. You're just a friend of the podcast for a long time. time. Just a renaissance man. Yes. Yes. I have listened to every podcast from the beginning. I went back to the other day and made sure and I had missed one of Lakes Turkey during the turkey series.

So I've listened to them all. Yes. And he's here today because we are going to be talking about the Civil War. So this Bear Gris Render, and if you're new to the podcast, we make documentary-style episodes. We're doing a Civil War series documentary-style stuff. but the render is when we just sit around and talk about it. And Kyle has, I think he's got to, he'll have a unique perspective on the Civil War and knows quite a bit about it.

And sitting next to him in the Tukova's roller chair is Michael Roseman. Yeah, I'm back from being fired. My friend from the Delta of Arkansas and how I know Michael is, I met Michael through Britt Reeves. and Michael is a coon hunting son of a gun if there was a bumper sticker that I can make and put on Michael's truck that's what I would say Coon hunting son of a gun

and a walker hunting Walker dog Coon hunting son of a gun no other way to be that's right you're not wrong but Michael is the owner of Sunspotlights he owns his own company and they build Sunspot Coon Lights in McCray, Arkansas.

And it's an incredible company. He and his family run, and they make the best Coon Lights in the world. Agreed. I mean, there's some other good Coon Light companies. They're good lights. They are great. But anyway, we're going to get into the light.

Okay, but just hold that for a minute. We also have Bear John Newcomb straight out of Alaska. You bet? Got home from Alaska last week. still dripping wet from salt water, from killing a bear. Last night. Last night. Got back last night.

Yes. And then we have Dr. Misty Newcomb. Good to be here. Can't wait to hear what you think about. Robert E. Lee and Abraham Lincoln. All right. Back to our story. Back to our story.

Josh Landbridge spillmaker. Josh Lambridge. Last and least. Nope. Nope. I don't introduce myself. And Josh, me and you're the same. We're like, we're just here.

Yep. And that's okay. A presence. So Kyle pulls up to the house, to the office, and he goes, I saw some mules back in town with lead ropes. And I proceed to go, oh, my, I bet they're mine. And it's a convoluted story because the theme of this story is change often brings great things, but also brings difficulty. Okay, think about that for a minute, everyone.

Just stop. You can even pause your listening devices now if you need to. That's a pretty profound perspective on some mules getting loose. Change can be wonderful, but it also brings much difficulty, potentially danger and catastrophe as well. So I sold my Izzy mule, Kyle. my best meal that I've trained

that I've had for all these years that I swore I was going to keep forever. I sold her. And it was a decision that came with much thought and there's a lot of reasons why I did it. And I could tell you those reasons if you're interested. But I won't for now because I sold the mule last week

and I've already got a new mule that I bought from Evan Falker of the Turnpike Triborators named Lori. Okay? You may have seen that. Officially good Lord Lori. She's two years old, really nice young mule that we're training. But because I don't have a real good riding mule, I borrowed a mule from a friend of mine in Newton County, a 16-hand beautiful mule named Hawk.

And anyway, the change is that there were two new mules on the place, and I had them out and I was grazing them on big lead ropes. and I purposely tied the two new mules loose. I wanted them to get loose because I actually didn't know how they would respond. You just tie up a horse or a mule to a big, long lead rope. They might get tangled up in it and throw a fit and hurt themselves. So I knew Slow Trap. We've got three mules.

This is a long story, guys. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, okay? You can just... A lot of drama. And Slow Trap was tied up good because I know. know that when he, the good thing about a mule, if they get in a bind, they often don't struggle. Like a horse will sometimes kill itself if it gets, if it in a real big bind, like with a rope.

A mule rarely does that. But I didn't know with these two new ones, had them tied loosely. I tell, I have to go into town. I tell bear John, hey, keep an eye on those mules. Next thing I know, I come back and Kyle's telling me there's mules in town. I'm not trying to point. I'm not trying to. I'm not trying to point any fingers. What you left out was that I was also in town doing stuff. And you said, are the mules okay. I check, mules are all there.

Okay. I go into town to do my stuff. I come back, the mules are gone. Fair enough. Wait, this is a good story. Did he tell you to keep an eye on the mules, or did he say, are the mules okay? I can't remember.

Let me pull up the text. I said, keep an eye on the mules. Let's see. Let's see. This is one of my, These two, y'all. And then I show up and nobody's here, and the mules are fine. You saw the three meals?

All three mules were here when I got here. Oh, wow. Can you check on the mules? They're all tied. Mules good, question mark? Yes. Very different, Clay. Very different than what you think you communicated.

I'm worried that the bear gets blamed for a few things, because several years ago, Clay was down hunting and got a call that the mules were. out. Okay? It's the stalks leading the first time this happened. And you've got the blame. I guarantee you. I mean, it probably was me. Yeah. I think that one was there. Yeah, that one probably wasn't. Ever close the gate was what I heard. Oh, wow. Man, the problem with the mules getting out, if it, when, when Clay first got mules, you know, we've got four kids. And once you don't close the gate, you usually learn that lesson. Like, you don't close the gate once and you've learned that lesson. But we have four kids. They each had a

learn a lesson, yeah. And when our mules get out, they go straight to town. They go out my driveway and turn right and go back into the country. They could turn left, or they could go straight to town. And so they always go straight to town. So the mules were in somebody's backyard in the subdivision. They came and found me, and they were like, your mules are in my backyard. They were real nice, wonderful people, went there, the whole neighborhood's there.

The whole neighborhood. The whole neighborhood is out with their kids, petting the. mules and then I'm in Misty's car because my truck is somewhere else at this very moment and Bear comes knows where we're at. Bear comes riding up through town on the mules and leads one of the mules. He's on slow trap and then I lead the other mule in the Honda CRV hybrid. A mile and a window. Yeah. That's why it took so long. I wish I'd have seen a video. I got a little bit of video. I'm sorry we had to tell that story. I'm sorry we had to tell that story, but I literally ran in and now see these guys that I've invited here that we've come a long

ways and we're starting late. So my deepest apologies. On behalf of Bear, I would like to apologize to you guys. I must told them to pack up and go home. It's just like, call it. No, no, no, no. It's all good. Michael, what do you have? I have lights. Man, this is incredible. I have a spotlight that we build. that I gave to Josh. Oh, how nice. That's an incredible light. This is my being on time award.

That's a good gift. There's a nice spotlight. Yeah. It is slick, man. I'm keeping this in my truck. Tell me, like, so it's rechargeable. It's rechargeable with the USBC. Has this rubber grip handle.

It's really bright, throws a tight beam, throws a long way. We built it for Coon Hunters to shoot with, you know, they'll line it up alongside of their gun because it's hard to shoot with, you know, turning your light sideways on your head. but most people have bought them for a truck light. And if you get in a fight, you can kind of use it as brass knuckles.

And we have this one for clay. It's a cotton mouth. It's the light we're building right now. That is cool. Awesome. Very nice. And now, I'm saying this, maybe for no good reason, I bought this from Michael. He did.

Yes. Because I want, I mean, I didn't want him to give it too many. He bought that. I gave that. That's right. That's right. And I say that only because I wanted to support Michael in his business. So what percentage of lights are made not in America? And I don't know, I don't want to get into your business.

Yes. A lot. Most of the coon hunting lights are made here. Okay. Stuff you buy on Amazon that they call Coon Hunt Lights, those are all built overseas. So describe to me your business because some of the components of this are coming from overseas. Batteries, reflectors, that kind of thing I can't find any here. and when you do find like a battery, you can buy batteries here,

but they're getting them from overseas anyway. Gotcha. They just mark them up. We design them, build them here, everything we can get from here, the head housing. Most of those components from that thing come from local electronic stuff, stuff in Texas. Really? So you, I mean, you built this light.

Yeah. Like so. We get the heads machined. You know, all the machine parts are done. We buy different products from different places like the optics and the switches and the knobs and and it's completely built in shop. Right. So you probably technically couldn't put like Made in America on it because you could?

Yeah, you could. Well, I mean, then that's something to be. It is. What do you think? I could. I could put Made American in there, but I kind of, I know that that works for some people, but I kind of see it as a marketing gimmick kind of deal. Yeah.

That's don't do it. Yeah. I could. It could be put. on there. I just don't. Okay. I respect that. And that may be weird, and I understand that it's weird, but I see it all over the place, and when I see it, I'm like, you know, I know that a lot of your stuff doesn't come from

America, and you're putting it on there, and I just don't want to get into it. I got you. I got you. I mean, the point of me being interested in that is that I think a lot, I think you could go on to Amazon and probably order some big high-powered lumine light. That absolutely... They also are bad about copying our products, not just mine, but other people that build them here. They'll order them, get them over there, build usually not quite that, but real close to it, and then they'll sell it on Amazon. Yeah. But, I mean, you and your family are building these lights in McCray, Arkansas.

There's four of us that work in the shop and two of us that do piecework and everybody's family. And listen, I have turned Steve Rinella onto these. I've turned a lot of the meat eater guys onto these Sunspot lights. and this is what I've always said is that Coon hunters have the market on lights. I mean, you can get, you can buy some giant, you know, light that recharges and has some big giant beam. But this light has, is rechargeable like hundreds and hundreds of times you can recharge this light. And they also have all of our products carry a lifetime warranty. Tell me what that means.

So everything on there except for the hat because it's a wear item they wear out quick and the charger are covered for a damage warranty. We don't, any kind of damage on there doesn't get covered. Like if you drive over it or something, that's on you. But to be honest with you, we cover it most time anyway. Yeah. We've gotten a lot of stuff in there as tour to pieces that we just fix. It's less of a hassle for me to just fix it and send it on than to call you and get a credit card number and go through the whole process. Yeah.

So we cover everything, including the battery, for the lifetime of that light. And what this light has, if you're not familiar with a coon light, it has a red light, which it's got a toggle switch on the head. A red light, which for a non-cun, I think there's a big market for people having these that aren't Coon hunt. I carry a sunspotlight with me everywhere I go in the world. The reason that I have bought this one for Michael is because I gave mine. to one of the guys in Nunavut on the ice. You took it with you.

Oh, I sleep with it by my head. Not with a hat on. I'll take it off. So you can take it off. Well, I'd have to loosen that. It'll come off, but it's tight. We don't want them coming off on accident. Yeah.

I carried that with me. Bow hunting. It literally is almost always at the bottom of our stairs so he can just grab it. Yeah, yeah. So you can put it on a hat. You don't have to use. A lot of times the hard hat throws people off that aren't coon hunters. They're like, what do you mean a hard hat?

That's just a stylistic choice. Well, and it helps support it. And I've been hitting the head with limbs before. Right. Out in the woods at night. Yeah, shaking vines to get a coon to look and it falls out on you. So you don't have to have a headland. So this is not, I mean, it kind of is a sales pitch for Michael, but I'm not, I'm not interested in.

Just your friend. I just, I just. I just believe in these things and carry them all over everywhere I go. Bear does too. Oh, yeah. But they have different. What I was going to say was they have the high power, which is an incredibly bright light. Michael, on the lowest walking light, so it has four different settings.

How long will that burn? 100 hours. 100 hours. So there is a main beam double walk. a double red. Each light has two positions on it. All of them on low burn for 100 hours. So if I just left that, and if it were dark in here, that lowest power is bright. Yeah, it's bright enough to walk in the woods with. Oh, it's just not at, I mean, you want all the light you can get so you use high. It would light up this room. It's a big light. If I left that on

and came back, it'll burn for days. Four days later, it would still be on. Yeah. It'll dim. It'll dim as it goes, but it'll still be light. Yeah. Yeah. So it, yeah, that, yeah, They're just incredible lights. On high, you get about five and a half to six on the main beam, and the red and the walk light both get around 14 hours on high. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I've kind of gone on and on about this light, too.

Good light. But I love them. So, yeah, that's called the Cotton Mouth. Yeah. Kyle, what have you been up to? You've been painting any? Oh, not as much as I should have. I have a show in April, and once I get past that, I'm kind of going turkey hunting mode,

and you kind of kind of get back into paint mode. So I've started a piece, but I'm not really cranked. What are you working on? Can you tell us? Yeah, it's a maybe, I don't know, 18 by 20, a little bit bigger piece. It's a scene out of the South Fork, up southwest of Cody, a big kind of a mountain scene. It's in shadow, and then there's a place in the corner that she's just catching sunlight, and there's going to be some natives there on horseback

just looking out over the... What inspired you? Just the scene. Just when I was up there, I went up specifically year before last to shoot some reference stuff. And so just, you can... Sometimes it's just your imagination.

Sometimes it's something you read, a history reference or something like that. But on this one, it's just cool scene. You've seen... We were talking about the Alaska stuff. You could imagine Eskimos or whatever right there on that other name. natives, you know. So that's all it is on that one. But that's, I did, I did drop a painting off

in Carthage at a gallery on the way down today. So I made double use in my life. Yeah. So, but yeah, there's a gallery. If you're ever in Carthage, nice gallery. They have a civil war museum there. So I don't. Oh, do they really? Have you ever done a civil war painting? I've done some drawings. I'm trying to think if I've done a painting. If I, if I did, it was a small piece, like individual type stuff. I have a little bit of reference. I worked on a Civil War piece film one time. So I've got a little bit of reference, you know,

but it's just not really my era to paint. Right. It's so, it's kind of like doing a podcast on beekeeping or trimming mule hooves or Civil War. You're going to get some flack on any of those. There's a lot of experts out there, that's what I'm saying. That's true.

So I just, I haven't done it. More portraits, I've done some portraits of like Jackson and individual portraits. Yeah, okay. Excellent. Bear. You just got back from Alaska. Do you want to give us like a one minute?

One minute rundown? Yeah, just like what you did. Well, the plan, the mission for going up there was to do, was to kill a bear with a self-bow from the water, from the ocean, in a wetsuit like you did a couple years ago. Two to make it true. We went up there, Janice Patelis and I went up there. Two to make it true?

Yep. Wow, who told you that? It's a climbing thing. You got to send it twice. Look at this guy. Or else. With his phrases that we've never heard of. Yeah, so if you just do it once, it's like, well, was it a fluke or not?

Yeah. I like that, though. Yeah. Yeah, so. Was it a flukum? Oh. Oh, wow. I see what you did there.

I've been a flukum. Um, yeah, so anyway, we were going up there to try and do that again. And, uh, we went up to Steve's fish shack up there. And I ended up getting a bear in the wetsuit from the Pacific Ocean. And, uh, Janus also got a bear. Wasn't quite in, wasn't quite a wetsuit approach. But it was a really cool hunt. He was in the wetsuit.

He was in the wetsuit, not necessarily in the water. Yeah. But yeah, it was a cool hunt. We were up there for 10 days, 8 hunt days, driving around on a skiff, fishing, jigging, and bear hunting. Wow. So we'll be able to watch that probably next spring. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, so next spring on the Meteor YouTube channel, you'll be able to watch that.

And did you film anything for the bear grease YouTube channel? Yeah, yeah, there will be, we filmed, we cooked some sea cucumbers and fish. Oh, yeah. That'll be out soon. And then I also... Everybody that goes to Southeast Alaska and has a YouTube channel wants to cook sea cucumbers. How are the sea cucumbers?

You'll have to watch the video and see. And then I also filmed... That's how you don't foreshadow, folks. I also... That's a bear shadow. If you want to have some fun, talk to me. I'll tell you what's going to happen. I filmed behind the scenes of a meteor shoot,

interviewed some of the camera guys, the producers. When will that come out? Probably next week. Oh, for real, soon. Yeah, but that was pretty cool because what I think a lot of people don't know about the camera guys on these shoots is that they're always way cooler than the people in front of the camera. That's what I found. That's actually true.

Yeah. And so anyway. It's true. Anyway, interviewed Dirt Myth, Bobby Jarg. Yeah, it'll be a cool. cool behind the scenes video. Oh, that's cool. Dirtmouth will be on there.

So, yeah, so we've mentioned a lot, but Bear has a YouTube channel called Bear Gris. And it's growing. He's making weekly content. It's kind of YouTube style, vlog style content, doing a lot of cool stuff, flint napping, stone points, making bows, fixing old Suzuki motors. I don't know if you heard, but Christy's been watching your content, and she loves it. She was engrossed in the boat motor video. Really?

Yeah. Well, there's... Who'd have thought? Two more parts to that one. You got a new demographic of 48-year-old women. Let's go. Let's go. I've mostly enjoyed it because you were showing your dad's junk pile. Yes.

Yeah. It's kind of more my junk pile. Almost down to like, like, every hundred square feet on this property is like, not manicured, but I mean, I'd take care of it, except for that. hundred square feet and bear sets up his video and films an entire episode with the entire backdrop is just like my junk pile what i don't understand is why you situated the junk pile directly by the front landscape of the house that's i think that's that's again i think this might be dr newcomb some things are just the way they are i'm sorry it's kind of a touchy subject in the nuke him home.

That shed. That shed was built before our house was built. It's true. Oh, really? A little bit true. I would take this up with the Lord. All right. Yeah, it's probably more my junk than yours at this point.

Yeah. Yeah. But I've got some nice junk. Steve Ronella, when he's come here. When he pulled up, that was the first thing he did, he pulled his phone on. Like we, I mean, we just have a modest place here. I mean, truly modest. and Steve Ronella pulls up and like

Like he wasn't trying to be cute I catch him standing there just like looking at my junk pile And I walk over and I'm like, what are you doing? And it was almost like he was slightly embarrassed Oh, I'm sorry, I was just, yeah, I was just kind of looking around Are you going to steal? Are you wanting to like steal some of my stuff? No, he said that he had looked all over Arkansas for a junk pile

like he was expecting and the one place he found it was at Clay Newcomb's Well, that's the point we had it to. Yes. Yeah, yeah, that was a good time, by the way. That was a good night. Yeah, the live tour here in Fayetteville. Yeah. Yes, that was.

Really good. Yeah. So. Before we get into too much more meat, we want to make sure and mention the survey, the bear Greece survey. Yes. Go to. Did it.

Yep. What were your, was it too long? No, I don't, I didn't, I wasn't very critical on. anything other than I had a oh there was one place where they like you could click on personalities

you were not on there so I made sure I mentioned you got to mention you got one vote anyways yeah that's good yeah so go go to the meteor dot com slash you mean was a survey too long I thought you meant was the podcast that was one of the questions they asked were podcast length

oh I thought that's what you're talking about so I don't remember I thought it was fun no I just uh Yeah. It's a cool survey. It'd be great if you went and checked it out. We want to gather as much information from you guys as we can. So we're asking for you guys to do this survey. We want to hear from you.

Also, you get entered to win a nice, fat $500 gift card for media. Yeah, and it's actually a pretty good chance. As of today, I can say this. I think there were like 200 people that had done the survey. So, I mean. It's pretty painless. It's good. Yeah, you don't have to type in your information or anything.

Like, it's not, it's not like type in your credit card number and we'll let you use it. It's just do your survey. But, you know, one and 200 chances, and hopefully there'll be more that take it, and there will be. But a decent, decent chance. At web address is. It's the meteor.com slash grease. Is that the way you understand it, Josh? Yeah.

Okay. So check that out. Also, since we have two special guests here, one in the Tukova's hot seat and one in the Tukova's roller seat, you guys are going to be gifted a pair of boots from Tukovia. That's good. Oh, man. Thank you. We're happy to have you here and just a little thank you. Yes.

You guys can send us some pictures of you walking around in your boots and we'll put on. We'll have boots for waiting for an hour for Clay. Yeah, yeah. This is our way of saying. We're very sorry that. I could have permitted some of that. Thank you. Well, thank you, guys.

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and $1,000 cash. Enter for your chance to win at iHeartreadio.ca. Ilsonique in Montreal, every day you enter. is another chance to win. Let's be honest about the kind of work that earns a season. It's not glamorous. Scouting, hanging cameras, cutting lanes, fixing fences, packing, practice, prep, the stuff that doesn't get noticed, but that makes the difference.

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fieldware belongs in that routine. Check out FirstLight's new fieldware collection at firstlight.com. I have a question for it. The book. What about your book? I'm really looking forward to this. Man, I'm not stuck. I'm so excited.

Pre-reader, you know, like advanced copy on the guy. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's, it's, no, I'm looking forward to it. We submitted the manuscript in February. Penguin Random House has, has read the book and has given us feedback, and we're in the process right now of making the final edits. The book is going to be out in February of 2027. Looking forward to it. Man, there'll be an audio book.

There'll be a hard copy, too. Yes. Oh, cool. Yeah. Which is not that far away. I mean, we're like, not. Not in 10 months? Right.

I think lessened that, right? Yeah. Are you doing the reading? Yes, I will. I will be doing the reading on the audiobook. Guys, it really is the work of my life in terms of my career inside of the outdoor space. It really is. I mean, I'm very excited about it.

And my in-house editor at Meat Eaters is the guy named Alex Tilney, who the world doesn't really know, but is just a, I mean, I consider him a dear friend today. He's been with me in the trenches just helping me, and it's been incredible. And so, anyway, one day we'll have Alex on this podcast. But, yeah, it's the wildest story you've never heard about the American Black Bearer. When you read this story, it's one part history, like American history, market hunting, Native American ceremony. It's one part history, one part biology. You're going to learn wild stuff about black bears and about mammals and about the ice age and about extinctions.

And then it's one part, and this is probably the lesser part, but it's one part memoir, for lack of a better term. I mean, it's not, the book's not, you know, there's just kind of my overlap with bears inside of. my life and then it's one part future casting on the American black bear is thriving there are more American black bears than all other seven bear species on planet earth combined there was a time when there were hundreds of bear species on planet earth pretty wild today they're there eight and that is not the result of like anything to do with man I mean there were hundreds deep time. And whatever's happening

ecologically has been incredibly good for black bears and America's bear story is just beginning. Do you have any idea what it is? What's that? I mean, what is increasing their population? Well, this is what the book covers to some degree, but generalists are doing very well. Specialists are struggling in general.

Habitat loss. for all kind of stuff. Just the... Like a monarch butterfly has got to have milkweed. Yes. That's a specialist. That's right.

Where a black bear would probably eat the milkweed and everything else. We basically make the case that the American black bear is the greatest generalist survivor of modern times. I mean, they're just like, they can eat anything. A plant, an animal. human trash they can live in the wilderness they can live in the city

they can live above the Arctic circle they can live in Mexico City they can live on the Pacific Ocean the Atlantic Ocean they they've out-competed Grizzlies in modern times because of their lack

of they're not as dangerous as a gris I mean like when you think about all the factors even anthropogenic human-related factors that cause an animal to thrive today. I mean, the reason there's not grizzlies from Alaska down to old Mexico is because they were more specialists than black bears, but also they're dangerous.

We would tolerate them, right. But people in New Jersey have figured out how to get along with bears that live in the little ravines behind their houses and come in their yards. Yes. And so just really interesting story. talk about how the black bear, the bear in general is the most anthropomorphized animal in human history. We quantify that. We quantify how the Catholic Church in Europe spend a thousand years stamping out the pagan animal-based worship religions of old Europe. And in those religions, the bear was

the king of the woods, the king of the beasts. And they marketed to get the lion as the king of the beasts. Like if you were just multiple choice question, like what's the king of the beasts? You'd say lion. Right. Used to be the bear. Right.

Interesting. Like there were systemic campaigns to, you're so close. To decrease the social value of the bear in Europe by the Catholic Church because they were doing some crazy stuff with bears back in like deep time Europe. And so it was,

successful. And so the bear became this slothful, lustful, carnal beast. And they killed them all, essentially in Europe. I mean, by like a thousand AD, there were no bears on the island, England. And then all those people come to North America. And we don't realize how much we come preloaded with cultural stuff even in regards to everything but specifically wild animals and what happens market hunting

and I mean like kind of this wanton slaughter of wildlife including bears so we we there's some trails in this book that no one has ever spoken of that will I mean for real really interesting stuff

you're embarrassed There's some foreshadowing of the book. Yonis Poutelis told a year ago, Janus Poutelis was like, Clay, you got to start talking about your book. And I told him, no, I don't want to talk about my book because it's two years out. And I mean, like I would give away information that's in the book. Not two years now. Well, it's not two years now. Right.

And then he said something that I think is true. As he said, Clay, you could talk about that darn book in hour-long segments for days and not. tell everything that's in that book. It's not like reading the book. Yeah. Right. So he was like, don't hide anything. He's like just, if you want to talk about it, talk about it. But no, yeah, thanks for asking.

Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm, be looking forward to that. Yeah, it's going to be called American Bear. Yeah. Excellent. Yep, yep, yep, yep. The Civil War. Man, second episode, the

this was one of my my favorite episodes we've done in a while I'm really glad that we're getting back into some historical series it's a they're hard to do

it's a big bite to do a civil war episode it's it's yeah when so many people know so much about the Civil War there's been more books

written about the Civil War I think than any other topic in America so it's it's not like we're bringing new information to the world. But, as I said from the beginning,

I'm answering questions that I didn't know about. So, you know, my invitation to a listener is just like, hey, I don't know as much about this as I want to. Come along with me, and let's learn something. Man,

what's, what do you think of this second episode, Kyle? Or what stood out to you? I was looking forward to it. I had no idea. you know, it's kind of like you're going to do a Civil War series, so it's like you have a five-gallon bucket and the tidal wave, and this is what you, this is it, what you have. But what you selected is good because I think it's where a lot of people start,

but they don't know everything. I mean, the two sides, the complexity, that kind of stuff. So, yeah, I thought it was a good place to go. Yeah. So this first episode was about focused on Abraham Lincoln, the secession of the states and then the last 14 minutes or something we talk about

Robert E. Lee. What stood out to you, Misty? Well, I was very surprised to learn that Abe Lincoln was a world-class wrestler. I'll just start with that. Did you know that, Kyle? I did know that, Michael.

I just didn't. Picture him in a singlet is hard. Is that the little trunk, the little swimming suit thing? picture ab in that but yeah i knew that so yeah yeah cauliflower here yeah put the covers on you know yeah so that surprised you that surprised me no i thought it was it was really good um i thought the yeah i thought you did a good job of i think the thing that's interesting is what you don't know is in what in the the comparison of the two men abe lincoln and and robertie lee and and it's it's

nice to take you this big topic like you said a five gallon bucket you know and and And you're basically telling the story of how this thing started through these two men's different lives. And I don't know if you meant to do that or not, but I thought that was a really, that was a unique way to do it in an interesting way. Because you kind of say, you know, once, and really, like, Abe Lincoln was a good, a really good man. And, and, and, but you, you draw out, like he's probably had had some things that if he were here today, we'd take issue with, had some ideas. But I think, and I do know some things about the Civil War, but I just think the thing that, that quote, like if I let all the, if I freed all the slaves,

I couldn't keep the union together. If I kept everyone enslaved, I couldn't keep the union together. And realizing just what he was kind of driven by a mission and I'm always interested, always interested in learning more about him. I think Robert E. Lee, that's someone that definitely, you know, I kind of grew up in an environment similar to, well, 11 miles further south than you. Way, the deep south. And so I certainly had heard quite a bit about Robert E. Lee, but I hadn't heard some of the things that you talked about in that. And that was a real surprise. I'm always fascinated by the nuance in history.

and also the thing that time does to people's mind frames. Because Abe Lincoln, this saint, who even after I heard what he said essentially about the equality of different races of people, I mean, still, it's like A. Blinken was pretty much a saint for that time. You're a product of the time that you grew up in. I mean, you know, there are things 100 years from now. Morals that you hold that you think are completely moral that in 100 years, they'll be like, man, what was Clay thinking? You know, and it's...

Tide his meal to a tree. Yeah. I mean, really, it will happen. What exactly do you think that'll be, Michael? I'm not sure, but I'm sure there's a list. Hunting a plot? Yeah. There's a list.

I think they're going to look back at y'all hunting walkers. Be like, Clay was on the right side. But, I mean, he was a product of his time. And it's all he knew. I mean, you know, I don't think he actually seen much slavery until he went to New Orleans. Right. And he's not in slave markets down there. Right.

There wouldn't have been very many where he was. There wouldn't have been very many black people where he was. Yeah, the context is everything in this because, like you say, he would, he, he would have never have known a time without it. So how would you get your mind around trying to, you know, back to the first episode, they talked to, about the three-fifths rule when they set up the union in the first place. And just like you were saying earlier, he would have done it either way to keep the union together, free them all or keep everybody slave if it kept the union together. That was their mission back then.

Get this thing signed and done and let's get a country. If they hadn't done that three-fifths thing, that would have never happened. And that's always bugged me that it's portrayed by some people that maybe don't know history that well. Like that just proves how racist these guys were or whatever. It's really the opposite. As soon as they freed them, they became a whole person. They counted one whole. So the incentive was to free them.

Right. You know. And they had to do the three-fifths to get there. To get the compromise to get them in in the first place. So even that is like you're saying, this is a product of the time, you know. Product of his time. Yeah. Yeah.

And they did a good job of setting things in motion to where eventually I think a lot of people thought it would go away eventually, but then cotton came along, this whole crunch with... Well, the cotton gin come along. Eli Whitney came along, invented the cotton gin because it was a big part of slavery was dying out until... Because the, I don't forget which type of cotton it was, the cotton that they were using wasn't popular anymore

until the cotton gin, and then it exploded. Yeah. Yeah, it's so... It was wild to hear Lincoln say that he thought that slavery would be here for another hundred years. And whether he really believed that or not, I don't know. It could have been just what he said. So it may not have been slavery,

but the harsh racism was there for another hundred years. Yeah. So part of the reason a catalyst that I invited Michael was, we talked about this light. I'd called you about this light. And then he'd listened to the Civil War episode. and you said, well, I don't want to take the words out of your mouth. What did you tell me?

I told you that I was raised, I forget my exact age, 11, 12, on up until I was about 18 by a black lady. Not 100% of the time, but a big part of the time. And her mother, so she was old, her mother was born a slave. Wow. She was born in 1862. So it would have just been a baby but was born a slave. The point was it wasn't that long ago.

That's right. I mean, when he said that on the phone, I said, will you come to the render? Yeah. And bring that light to me. You know, I didn't know it. She never mentioned anything. And I was telling her about a pump, you know, one of the old hand pumps that I had found by a pond we were fishing by. that was south and east of the house about a mile.

And she said, that's my mother's old home place. And then she told me about that. So the property that that old home place was on is still owned by the family that her mother was enslaved to. Oh, my goodness. They're still there. Wow. Well, so let's think about the mask because that is the most interesting thing. I remember one time when I was a kid, my dad, and he used to.

Abraham Lincoln, it's interesting that he would have used this analogy, but he said, really, the difference in time between Abe Lincoln's time and our time is really not that much. I didn't understand it when he said it, but I always remember him saying that. So what year were you were you born, Michael? 76. So this would have been in the 80s, the 1980s. Yeah. And this lady.

Into the 90s. This lady would have been in her 80s. She died. She was 95. 96 and it was like in, I think she was born in like 1902. Okay. And her mother was older when she had her. But her mother had like 18 kids, something like that.

Wow. So she had kids own up until she was quite a bit older. Fleecy, the one that I'm talking about, had 21 kids. Raised every one of them. On 21 children. 21 children. Her day was fleecy. Wow.

My granddad was born 1898. so people that were 40 years old, 50 years old, they were, I mean, he would have known all kinds of people, and veterans, people that lived through it and everything. Yes. That's the way, when Michael said that, I got to thinking, and I thought through this before, but it rekindled the idea. Like, my grandfather would have grown up around old men that were Civil War veterans.

So I didn't even think about this. My wife right now is driving. driving back from Florida with her cousin. Her cousin is early 60s. She was a late child for her father. Her father was born in 1895. Wow. Wow.

He was in his 60-something, pushing 70 when she was born. Wow. So you can get close really quick. Yeah. Yeah, it's just not that many generations. Time is so deceptive. It feels like that was just so long ago,

but, you know. There's been so much change. And we look back on that stuff, like you were talking about Lincoln and, you know, it come across on the podcast like you really couldn't believe he'd think like that and then want to free the slaves. But like I said, he was a product of his time, and we all want to think we'd be the hero in something like that. And we probably wouldn't be, you know.

You would probably be, you may have owned slaves. You know, if that was how you were raised, said now you think, oh, there's no way. There's no way I could think like that, but you probably would have. But if you just take one of those guys like you've done and read a biography of their life, like you can do it with Jackson,

you can do it with Nathan Bedford Forrest, for crying out loud, had a slave markets, was one of the most fierce cavalry officers. I mean, the union feared him, you know. And they talked to him in heading up to Ku Klux Klan right after the war when blacks were getting elected to office and everything. Sometime in that period in his later life after that, he got out of that pretty quick. He ran into a veteran buddy of his. He said, I thought you were in Mexico or somewhere.

And he said, no, I'm back here. I think he was actually preaching or something. Anyway, he asked Bedford for us if he'd ever made a decision to follow the Lord. And he said, no, there was too much non-Christian stuff work to be done. when you asked me that during the war. They said, we need to take care of that. And they go and there's an account of him, you know, with this guy making that decision.

And he actually becomes an advocate for black folks at that time, went to some picnics, had awards given to. You don't ever hear that part of his history. Yeah. He had a complete turnaround from where he was. And I think you could say the same for Lee thought it was terrible, but he inherited some of his slaves. And he couldn't get rid of him without paying a big,

I don't know what they called it, but there's some kind of fee. to pay the kids if he got rid of the slaves. So it's complicated. History's complicated. I think our country, we still should be proud that we were able to, I don't know if there's another case in history where you have an enslaved people and you free those people if that's ever happened.

Well, where half of the country fought the other half of the country to free them. Right, right. So it depends on how you look at it, I guess. You know, it's a perspective thing. too, but Lincoln said about changing his mind, like stuff you're saying, what he said earlier, and he said I don't

claim to have been able to control events, events control me. In other words, he had to change his mind about things like he went from, we don't want to make this about emancipation, we just want to keep the union together to where we're going to go for broke, you know,

and get her done. So, he was able to do that, you know. It's a complicated man. Yeah. And he was extremely depressed. Lincoln? Yeah. There's books about it. I've read one.

The melancholy of Lincoln. And I mean, he spent, his friends thought that he'd kill himself. He spent a long time just later in the bed. During the war period? Not during the war, before the war. So leading up to the presidency. Yeah, he was extremely depressed.

And then when he lost his boy, that was another period. So, but, but he was the right guy at the right place at the right time as it turned out yeah you know so yeah there were compromises that legislatures tried to make to that would have ended things with it being unsettled and it would have just gone on forever so uh he did he he he did us a great service as president i'll say that you know so generals he picked

early on to missed a lot of opportunities to end that war early that they just missed, let them get away, just that kind of thing. Yeah. Bear, what's that to you? Well, kind of the same as everybody else, but really, like, the, you know, you always hear about Abraham Lincoln saying, you know, that black people were not equal to white people, but he freed the slaves. You've heard that before?

Yeah. Okay. I went to a great school. Yeah, I've heard that before. And yeah, I think I agree with everyone. Like from this point in history, it's really easy to look back and be judgmental of that. But, you know, I do agree with what Michael said. Like, it does seem like if you grew up in that environment,

then those are just the thinking systems that are built in that you don't necessarily choose to have in a lot of ways. And so, yeah, like looking back on it, it's kind of hard to believe. I do feel like that's a, like it's not terribly surprising to me whenever I heard that. It was just kind of like, yeah, it's probably probably the way that everybody thought then. But for his time, he was pretty far ahead of the, pretty far ahead of the rest of the, pretty far ahead of the game. But yeah, and I also, I think in 100 years there will be a lot of things that we're doing now. about in the future, people are going to be like, what, are you kidding me? Are you thinking?

Yeah. Yeah. Like, I feel like a lot of environmental stuff. Yeah. Yeah. We'll definitely be like, y'all were driving gasoline trucks every day to work 50 miles and back, stuff like that. Yes. I look back and say, you knew about this.

Why didn't you change it? You know what I mean? Yeah. Because we've got lots of people who are declaring warnings. but you didn't think crony water was important. Yeah, that's a good example, bear. One of the things we talked about early on was, you know, why would, why, like Benjamin Franklin,

or not Benjamin, Thomas Jefferson had slaves, but condemned it. It was his pocketbook. That's why he still had slaves. Same reason we're using stuff, that cell phone setting on Misty's lap right now, probably has some stuff in it that we wouldn't be real, proud of who the people are that are, you know, getting that.

But we have it because we need it. So we kind of ignore it. And I believe that was the same. Yes. Same thing. Yeah, like, it would be pretty tough for me to just be like, all right, I'm never driving a gasoline vehicle again. And then just, like, not drive anywhere, you know.

I mean, like, I guess you use an electric vehicle. You did ride slow travel down the top of that. I just have to ride. I just have to ride slow trap into town every day. And it's like, you just. Things like slow trap and cows produce too much methane, and they're bad for the environment, too. You know, so.

Yeah, so you're kind of, like, it's not really much of an option now. It's like you kind of, then you look back at Abraham Lincoln. I think that is actually a great example because I've been trying to think of things. I was half joking when I said, what do you think I'm doing that they're going to talk about? But I actually have been trying to figure out, you know, what are the things? And there are probably some, you know, when J.D. Hewitt, who did a fantastic job as my guest, History Underground YouTube channel, he said, Clay, how do you feel about children mining coal bolt in Africa? And I'm like, boy, that sounds bad. And he's like, okay, well, you don't really do much about it, do you? And I'm like, no. And, you know, his point was people that didn't own slaves might have just been like, well, it's not really my problems. It's just kind of what those people. people are doing.

But this thing about the environment, about, yeah, like driving the big trucks that we drive. But yeah, it's like how do you be a normal person if you don't have a truck? I've joked at times that people are going to look back at pictures of plastic silverware and see me eating a piece of barbecue with a plastic fork and go, wow, what a monster. I mean, like, the amount of, we can talk about environmental stuff over and over, but like disposable plastics is just unreal. Every day, every restaurant, just piles of it, and microplastics and all our stuff now, you know. And I'm thinking like what bears said, later on people are going to go,

you knew this and it took you how long to kind of wean off of that? Yes. You know, I think that'll be, that'll be a deal, you know. Wow. Yes, it's crazy. Pride Months, Toronto. Pride is an opportunity for you to create your own space, to celebrate your existence. IHeart Radio is proud to be an official sponsor of Pride Toronto Festival, and we won't stop.

Celebrate Pride. Turn up the love and listen to IHeart Pride Canada, your 24-7 radio stream and the only playlist you need for your Toronto Pride celebrations. Pride is so great because it gives a whole bunch of people this visibility that they've never had before. We have a ton to celebrate Toronto. Happy pride. Iheart radio. Let's be honest about the kind of work that earns a season. It's not glamorous. Scouting, hanging cameras, cutting lanes, fixing fences, packing, practice, prep,

the stuff that doesn't get noticed, but that makes the difference. That's what first light fieldware is designed for. Fieldware is made for the work that happens long before opening day and continues long after the season ends. Every piece is built for real use, no shortcuts, hardwearing where it needs to be versatile where it matters, built to handle varied tasks and the demands of doing things the right way. If you live in preparation, fieldware belongs in that routine. Check out FirstLight's new fieldware collection at firstlight.com. Speaking of crazy, I was very intrigued by Robert E. Lee's letter to. his wife.

I mean, the letter didn't, somebody might have interpreted that as me saying, look, he was actually good and we thought he was bad. It really wasn't any of that. I was just surprised at his candidness

and that he addressed much of what we're talking about, like the guy, Robert E. Lee. A little window into his. Yes. And I also thought it was kind of weird that we have access to a private letter he wrote to his wife. Yeah.

I mean, I just think about, like, if he was alive, sitting right there in the Toccova's hot seat, and I found that letter laying on the floor, what I picked it up and, like, read it. But here, you know, 160 years later, I'm, like, reading it. And, you know, maybe he wouldn't have said that publicly. I mean, there's things I would say to my wife, I wouldn't say publicly. I just thought that was interesting. Yeah, yeah. Did that?

No, I thought that's super interesting. and that's an incredible point about, I think that that's probably a great place to know what people were thinking because it wasn't, it's not like today where we're looking in our cell phones and people, you know, influencers are sharing, like their deepest reflective thoughts about things. This is his letter to, this is his letter to his wife.

This is a private text message, something that you don't think is going to, that is actually legally protected. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Her response was not a thumbs up. Yeah, yeah. It was deeper. It was all deeper than that.

So I think it's, I thought that was, that was super interesting. And I think to your point, you're not really saying this guy was good and this guy was bad or you're not, you're just saying like, hey, this is a little bit more complex than anyone knows. And it's easy to put these people in these box. But when you read these letters from both of them and you read their speeches and you read this intimate communication, you learn a little bit more. And it's just, it's just, the whole thing is a little bit more nuanced. I mean, Robert Lee was essentially saying, I'm rooting for the end of slavery. That's what I felt like he was saying.

Oh, he was praying for it. It actually sounded like he was, the way he said he was praying for that end or something. Yes, the language was a little hard to follow at times, but he was, yeah, he did. He said he was praying for the end of slavery. And then, but this guy, he owned slaves. His wife owned a bunch of slaves.

And you kind of wonder, I actually, when I was listening, that wonder if he was like telling her, hey, get rid your, you know, you need to dial it back. Yeah. You're not, do you know what I'm saying? Like, as you listen to it and you think, this is not, this is not a historical text that this man is writing. This is not public information. He's, he's talking to a woman who clearly has a different stance than he does.

Well, I mean, we don't know that. Well, sounds a little bit like it based on what Clay Newcomb said on Barry's podcast. Yeah. Well, as, and I'm not an expert on Robert Lee, but what I really, but what I read was that her, his wife's father was a big time plantation. I mean, this, this, this, Robert Lee is like a gentleman of Virginia. So he marries into this wealthy, rich family. So Grant was the same way. Grant married into a family that had a lot of slaves and his father was an abolitionist. So, Grant's father, but his, so Grant's wife. Grant's wife's, they own

slaves. Yeah, it was kind of hard for those two to reconcile that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you can be more than one thing. You know, we like to take something someone did in their past or whatever and put them in a box. Two things can be true at the same time. And time as well. Like, I think if you took a Clay Newcomb at 20 years old and just could extract every thought in my mind and beliefs and doctrine of life, and then you extracted that today or maybe when I'm 70, I would be a different person. and I could be.

I actually could be a different person that would look back and be like, man, I was so young, young and foolish. And so, you know, like, where would a guy like Robert E. Lee have ended up? And he didn't live that long. He only lived, like, just shortly after the Civil War, maybe five years. I think he died before 1870.

But he was in his 60s, maybe. He became the president of this college. He did quite a bit of stuff. I had told that all that would have took. Well, and then, yeah, and then you had the change in administration where, you know, Grant's conditions were magnanimous to everybody, and there was healing, you know, would have been better if Lincoln was still around. But then you get a change in administrations.

They actually indict him for treason at some point, I think. So he had to go through all that, you know. So, yeah, it's just hard to imagine what the turmoil they're, live through, you know. Josh, what's said out to you? Well, you know, the old saying hindsight is 20-20, and I think that might be accurate personally, but like looking back at history, what I'm kind of gleaning from these episodes is that things are a lot more complex than we want them to be.

We want them to be very cut and dried, and we want to be able to pass judgment on these historical figures and events so that we can so that we can decry somebody or we can we can exalt someone and just just as these things are you know i hadn't heard that stuff about uh abraham lincoln it was a surprise to me when i when i heard it and uh it kind of it has the ability to change your view of someone you know in an instant and i just feel like the the purpose of going back and looking at history like this is so that we can learn things more about ourselves and what to do. And I think the thing that really stands out, and we're talking about a subject that's been so sensitive in American culture since the Civil War of racism and that it really comes down

to the fact that we have to look at our own conscience. We have to live out of our conscience. and that if you're not doing that, you are going to be, you're going to be making the wrong decision for you. And I think, I think looking at Abraham Lincoln and looking at these guys, you know, I think Abraham Lincoln, to the best of his ability,

lived out of his conscience. And I think it guided him the right way. And I think looking at Robert, Robert Lee, I think eventually it would have guided him the right way because they were men of principle looking at their lives. They believed in principles. I think their principles changed over. over the course of their lives.

And that's one of the things that I really appreciate about this episode specifically is I felt like I got a more holistic view into who these guys were. Am I going to say, well, you know, I had these views of Robert E. Lee as being this Confederate, you know, rebel, racist. And now I feel like he's the other way. No, but it does give me a view that he was much more moderate than what I thought he would be. And even looking at Abraham Lincoln to say, he was limited by the by the culture of his time yet at the same time he was still a

groundbreaker inside of that and we can't we can't hold these guys to the same standard that we would expect now because we have more knowledge and so it does it requires me to live my day by the con by my conscience by what what what I feel inside of me to to to make the next right choice about the things that I'm doing I got to really understand too where loyalties lie at that point so we're all Americans and we all like to think we're patriots to America as in the federal America

they were loyal to their state the whole idea of America hadn't really grown that much yet they were loyal down to their county that they were in so you know like Robert E. Lee if that war hadn't moved into Virginia, he probably would have never done anything. Right. You know, it was the fact that he was loyal to the people in his area is why he was in that war.

They'd refer to it as their country. Like if I said, how's everything in your country? I'm talking about Arkansas. Right. You know, and that's. Right. It was a whole different outlook on what the United States is versus how we feel about it now. Yeah, that's a good point.

Yeah. That was actually, it is a good point because it was kind of confusing to me. And don't get me wrong, I do love Arkansas. But it was a little bit like, well, if Robert Lee didn't like, didn't want slaves, so what on earth? Just because he couldn't fight against his home state, you know, that makes that have a little bit more sense. Well, at some point we're going to address this because I talked about it pretty extensively with J.D., but the reasons people fought in the South were so interesting because to me it's more interesting than the reason people fought in the north. the people fought in the north to preserve the union,

and perhaps out of a moral obligation to abolition, but not much probably. But my point about in the South, there would be a general idea that, well, anybody who fought for the Confederacy would be, you know, like pro-slavery, have slaves, but that wasn't true at all. There's a great quote if you go back.

I don't know when Ken Burns' Civil War Series came out, probably the 80s, maybe. But in Shelby's voice, I can still hear him say, one of the Yankees talking to a captures Confederate saying, why are you fighting us? And the Confederate soldiers says, because you're down here. Yeah.

That's it. For them, for that guy. Yeah, yeah. You're invading their country. That's right. Yeah. That's why we're fighting out because you're down here. Right.

It's like, it's just. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's what we're going to cover. It's like, why. people would fight. And in the, in the, they're varied, varied reasons, but mainly it had to do with what you're saying. It's just like, well, this is, this is our people.

And even Robert Lee's letter to his wife, it's like he talks about, you know, slavery's bad, it's bad for owners, it's bad for slaves, it's bad for your soul. God doesn't like it. We're praying that it ends. But those people have no right to come down here and tell. us what to do. Like that... That mindset.

Yeah. And we think that we're independent. They were fiercely independent of the government. So, you know, that had a lot to do with why they were fighting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very interesting.

Anything else stand out to you, Misty? No. That was it. Well, that's all I got. That's all you got. Well, I'm looking forward to... the next, we're going to do a couple more episodes. I'm just going to keep doing these until I

feel satisfied with what I know. So we've got a few more left in us, which I think is good. I think I enjoy having a series that, I mean, you can't learn much in an hour.

But if you had three parts, when I think about like the way we covered Daniel Boone and Tecumpsa and Osceola and some of these historical things, It's a pretty good resource to deliver to people. You can go listen to, I think our Boone series, maybe just had three episodes,

but it's like one of them was an hour and a half. There was a time when Bear Greases were an hour and a half long. I think I'll see all those four. Yeah, but, I mean, three or four hours, it's pretty, cover quite a bit of information. And, yes, well, I'm looking forward to taking my light out. You need to come out. Yes, I do.

We treated 15 coons last night. Did you really? 13 coons and two in the ground. Wow. I'm at 2 o'clock this morning. Oh, really? Bad boys. Well, Michael's down in some of the best coon hunting there is.

Down in the Delta. Arkansas Delta. It's damp down there. Right now it's not. Is it dry? Yeah, bad. It's been a bad year for folks in the Delta. Are you hunting now?

Heck. Heck. Why'd you name him heck? I didn't. I don't know why he's named heck. I sold him as a wean puppy and bought him back when he's 11 months old and that's the name he came with. Heck. He already knew it, so that's what we stuck with. It's because they were saying, what the heck. We're buying back?

I got a puppy out of him right now. He's five months old. I named him, heck yeah. I know. Call him, yeah. Oh, that's funny. Heck yeah. Heck yeah.

What's the best coondog names run through some of the old year coondog names over the years? Do you a one-syllable coon dog or two-syllable cun dog? I like to be a one-cellable dog name no matter what the dog is. Okay. I think they understand it better when I call them more. I don't know, man. I haven't had that great a dog name. Haller.

I had two howlers. Haller? Yeah. Haller and little haller. Yeah. Lum, champ, Homer. Coond dogs? Yeah.

Oh, really? What breed? where they hold on let me guess blue tick one was okay one was

well I had one blue tick that was afraid of the dark there were there were a pair out of the same litter and you'd have your light they weren't this good of lights we talked about the and you'd hear something walking

there'd be there'd be the dog and stop routes and you'd stop and it's like didn't work out dog was afraid of the dark but yeah there was a long time ago

but yeah a couple blue ticks had a red bone uh no walker I never had a Walker. I could have told you that. I knew this man didn't have a Walker. I was getting an English hound. Are you?

Yeah. Wow, that's groundbreaking. No, I like them. Yeah. Coming from Georgia. Okay. Okay. A name in mine?

I don't name them until I know I'm going to keep them. I don't like to waste good names. That's exactly what I'm saying. That's exactly what we named a dog, a name that I just loved. And it was a no good dog, and it ended up believe that. I don't want to say its name in case. The current owner. Well, in case someone we know has a child named that.

Exactly. That's the one I'm talking about. Scooter. Not Scooter. That was not a good dog or a good name. So until they've done something that I go, I'm going to keep this dog, I normally don't know. That's good. That's smart.

Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, I normally know that by the time they're six or seven months. Oh, man. I just, I was just going back through some of my. The first... Had some good ones. Well, I had bird dogs.

I had a bird dog named Lucy. At a pointer bird dog named Nick that my grandfather gave me a named. But, oh, man, my first registered blue tick coondog was named Newcombs, Wachitae, Southern Blue Thunder. Try to call him in the woods. Newcomb's Arkansas, Washington. Thunder. Thunder.

We had a dog named... We had a dog named... Siegfried von Spielmacher, and we just called him. Mizziki. And then the pair was Newcomb's, Washington, blue, lightning. Thunder and lightning and thunder, yeah. Next daddy's name was Wood, W-O-D.

That was a good dog. It was a good dog, yeah. Yeah, yep. I had two dogs when I was a teenager named Rolex and Seiko. They would not have made good coon dogs. I'm just telling you right now. They would not have been good coon dogs. Yeah, you imagine two dogs out there in the timber.

What's your name? My name's Rolex. What are you doing at it? I always wanted watchdogs, so that's what I named it. I forgot to mention it. It took us all the while, Josh. Oh, my gosh. He is not from around here.

I forgot to mention that this light has a laser on it. Does. Don't shine it in your eyes. It's bright. He likes to shine that kind of stuff at me. So you can point out stuff. That's your one downfall. None of it really like the laser. Really?

I bet he shined a long way up there. On the ice. Clear air and stuff. You could shine a long way on the ice. Excuse me. Yeah, it's got a laser for pointing. Can you see it? Oh, yeah, you can see it.

Oh, yeah. Nice. Okay. Don't burn up our sensor now. Yep. Yep. Is there anything else we need to cover? Anybody got any other thoughts?

Anything you want to say? Well, remind everybody to take the survey. Check out the survey. Check out Mark Kenyon's new podcast, Future Wild. Yes, Mark Kenyon. Man, so Mark Kenyon has for a long time been known as Meat Eaters' Whitetail guy, and he was. He is.

He's just made lots and lots of content on whitetails. And he's still going to do that. But he is now meat eater's new conservation coordinator. And he's got a new podcast called Future Wild. He had Yvonne Chouinard on the first episode. Oh, wow. Interesting. He's the founder of Patagonia.

He's the founder of Patagonia. Yeah. And, yeah, Mark's got a neat thing going. Mark's just so, he's so bright. He is. He's very good at that. He's a thinker. He's a thinker.

I don't belong in here. As you'll notice, he's not here. Well, we're going to watch the NBA finals game tonight. We don't talk about sports on this podcast or fly fishing, but we don't. We'll be cheering. We're big. I don't watch NBA, but the finals, the playoffs we like to watch. So we're going to go check that out.

Kyle, once again, thank you for coming. And if you're ever, let's expand the radius to 30 miles from here. And you see mules loose. I'll just go ahead and call. Just bring them here. Yeah, just go ahead and catch them if you don't mind. Stay with them. Yeah, I'll do that.

And Michael, thanks a ton for coming. Thanks for inviting me. Yeah, man. No, I'm glad you were here. And I'm proud of my new light. And I'm a little jealous of that one. I'm actually a little jealous of that one, too. Well.

Because when we go on, yeah, Clay likes to, he always has the light. We go on a lot of night walks around here. Okay, life hack, just we're kind of throwing in some, for all of you who've hung on this long. Misty and I are incessant walkers. Yes, it's true. It is true. And I think it's walk quite a bit, too. They walked a long ways today.

But we walk at night. Sometimes before we go to bed, we're just like, hey, let's go for a walk. And we'll go walk a mile and I'll wear my Coon light. I need a Ben O'clock. What is that? They had been a light. Don't you have one? Don't you let your wife use one?

I need a Ben O'clock. Because it's like an imbalance of power when one person has a powerful light and the other person is like using their cell phone, you know? I mean, there's a help me out. My Ben Oak Light has disappeared. purpose. Oh. I don't even want to hear it.

Just drop it in the lake. That probably actually is Drew Baer. It's still shining. Yeah. It's still rolling. Yeah. So, thanks so much. Yeah, thanks for everybody.

Thanks for listening to these episodes and engaging with them on the platforms and on social media and stuff. It's great. Thanks for listening to Brent's podcast, this country life, lakes, backwood University. And, yeah, keep the wild places wild because that's where the bears live. If you do off-season work, you know what beats up gear, scouting, land work, crawling through briar patches, brush, weather, long days, first light fieldware is built for all that. No shortcuts. Purpose-built, durable.

Hard-wearing where it needs to be versatile, where it matters, it supports the work that earns the season. Check out First Lights new fieldwear collection at firstlight.com. This is an iHeart podcast, guaranteed human.