Bear Grease - Ep. 47: Bear Grease [Render] - Steve Rinella on Jerry Clower and Trimming Mule Hooves

Episode Date: March 30, 2022

Steve Rinella, Ryan Callaghan, Phil Taylor and Corine Schneider join Clay this week on the Render episode. To Clay's surprise, Steve grew up listening to Jerry Clower and was surprised about not being invited as a primary guest. Clay starts off by talking about how he's being trolled on bee keeping and mule hoof trimming, and the crew jumps into the life and legacy of the southern comedian, Jerry Clower.  Connect with Clay and MeatEater Clay on Instagram MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and Youtube Shop Bear Grease MerchSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. First Lights fieldware collection is made for the work that happens long before opening day and continues when the season ends. Products built for early mornings, full days in real use. Hard wearing where they need to be versatile where it matters. No shortcuts. Just gear designed for the work that earns the season.

Built to perform, built to last. Check out. First Light's new field. Worldware Gear at firstlight.com. My name is Clay Newcomb, and this is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called the Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual Bear Grease podcast. Presented by FHF Gear, American Made, Purpose Built, Hunting and Fishing Gear that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. And they would serve things.

This is no joke with like a little paper squeeze cup of cheese whiz. Where was this? And I was just dumbfounded and was going to start making fun of it a little bit. But until I looked around and everybody there was actively enjoying their cheese whiz. Now what were they putting the cheese whiz on? All their breakfast items. What state was this? Minnesota.

Minnesota. Yeah. Northern Minnesota. They didn't give you your own can. They gave you a... Like a little individual squeeze paper thing full of cheese with. But they were they making their own or these are like produced? I think they were like craft supply.

Oh, this is legitimate. Oh yeah. Hey, this is a great cold open to the Bear Grainter. Great opening there. The Cheese Whiz. The Cheese Whiz render. Man, do we ever have an eclectic group of people here today? You know, so I'm not going to introduce, you may have, you may have, you know, recognize their voices, but I'm not going to introduce you for a minute.

I'm going to tell you guys, though, I've got to warn you that you will be scrutinized heavily by the original Bear Grease crew. Okay. So my wife, Misty Newcomb, Brent Reeves, Josh Lambridge spillmaker, Gary Believer Newcomb. Brent, Brent Reeves is sharp. Yeah, man. He's sharp. Yeah. I'm not saying the other people aren't.

So occasionally, just the way it works is occasionally, if I'm traveling or something and I have a new bear biery surrender crew, the next time I see all these people, they're like, ah, you know, they were okay. Or they'll be like, yeah, that guy was this or that. So I'm just warning you. You can wind up in a somewhat, like, I think it might be like a somewhat postmodern situation or something where the render becomes about the render. Yeah. Yeah. That's, we've been accused of that, actually.

We've been accused of that. How about the original Bear Grease crew you only refer to as the Cheecherones? They're rendered out, dude. I think it would, it would be the crackles. It's more southern appropriate. That's right. The cracklines. The rand.

There we go. No, hey, it is fantastic to have a very new crew. To my right, Phil Taylor. Hey, how's it going? Everybody would know Phil from the Meat Eater podcast, and if you don't, if you wouldn't know Phil from that, you would know Phil from all the incredible work he does on Bear Grease. Phil and I work on Bear Grease.

You know, we coordinate together with how it's built. And so Phil Taylor, the sound engineer for Meteor. Hello. He gets like about a sentence in every podcast. But we have hundreds of them. Add it up, there's paragraphs of them. On the media podcast of Phil. Impactful.

You know what? We need to make a sizzle reel of everything Phil says. Everything Phil has ever said strung out. I do not want to hear that. I tell you, you'd have to be the one that makes it. I know. It's never going to have.

Well, what I've learned from being around, Phil, when he does speak, it's noteworthy. Yeah. I try. I don't like it when people talk too much at me. so I try not to talk too much at them. Yeah. I get it. Don't talk at me.

Yeah. To your right, Ryan Callahan. Man, this is, it's an honor to have you here, brother. Hey, I've been looking forward to this. So, Steve, Ryan and I have really never done much together. Of all the meat eater people, I've traveled a lot with Janus, with you. I've actually wondered about that. Yeah, we've just never crossed paths much.

And so. Are you guys getting along with? Yeah, man. It's probably because if you got me to Arkansas, wouldn't come back. Yeah. Yeah, we're brothers from another mother. You can tell by the stashes.

Yeah. He's got mules. He's got gardens. He's got lots of fishing and hunting opportunity. It's a pretty sweet deal right out your front door. Yeah, it is. To your right, Steve Ronella. Man, now you are a regular on bear grease.

I'm going to call you a regular if you're, if you've been on there more than twice. That's fair. But good to have you on the render. So the render, for those who might not know the structure of the podcast, it's a little bit different. So we have, and this isn't for you guys, this is for people out there. I try every now and then to kind of tell what's going on. So the Bear Greer podcast is our documentary style podcast with a very specific target,

and we really dive in deep with multiple guests and voiceover and soundscapes and really do it up. The Bear Gries Render is what you're hearing here, which is us talking about the previous week's Bear Gries podcast. So if this is your first time to listen to Bear Gries, you know, go back one and you'll hear what we're going to talk about today, which is the Jerry Clower episode. But, yeah, like the Bear Gries podcast is like all the really informed correct stuff. Pretty much.

And then you do this and it's things that weren't well thought enough. to make it into that. Yeah. And you have, I would imagine you have some suggestions for the Jerry Clower podcast. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

I'm very, I anticipate these. To your right, our last guest, and much of an honor to have you here, Corinne Schneider. Thank you, Clay. Thank you.

And a lot of you would know Corinne from the Meteor podcast as well. Your first time on Bear Greer. It is my first time. Yeah. So Corinne is, tell us what you do, Corinne.

I produce the meat eater podcast, so a lot of pre-interviews and setting up the agenda of talking points. Yeah. And transitions. Yep. Keeping Steve in line.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. Before we get into, I learned there's two things that you don't bring up in the, just in life this week

on my Instagram. Okay. There's certain topics. that if you bring them up on Instagram, it's just going to be problems for you. Number one, beekeeping. Okay. Oh, really?

Those people are touchy. They are very touchy. Very different direction than I thought we're ahead. I need to add that to the long list of touchy enthusiast groups. Is it worse than like the... The people that like the dog. Yeah. Oh, man.

Okay. So I've got two things. The beekeeping thing is something that happened a long time ago, but I quickly saw that it fit into. the thing that I did this week. That may have been a mistake. But beekeeping, Misty has a couple of beehives.

She's an amateur. She knows it. Last year, sometime, I thought it was pretty cool. She was pulling out some of the screens and looking at honey. So I took a video,

put it on my Instagram. Biggest mistake of my life. Beekeepers, holy moly. They can look at a three-second video clip and look into your soul to tell you why. you're bad at life, bad at bees,

bad at... If you get a second, I'd like to speak to that to the touchy enthusiast audience. Well, let me tell you the next one. That's probably... It's close. Hoof trimming of mules.

You can shoot fairier stuff. But I saw that thing and I was like, look like he knew what he was doing. Well, so did I, Steve. Man, no, I am not... I'll tell you my full experience with trimming, and I put my shoes on mules. I don't shoe them very often.

But, you know, when I got mules, I started paying ferriers to come to your house, and it's $150, and you've got to do it every six to eight weeks. And you sit there, oh, yeah, man, it's a big deal. I didn't know it was that. I thought it was a couple times a year. Typically, it depends on who you are. Typically, six, eight weeks.

And talking to the ferriers, they're like, Because when the first guy started coming out, fairies are always great people. They really are. I've never met a ferrier I didn't like. They got to deal with a lot of people. They do, and they're just, you can't fake out a horse or a mule.

Like, you just kind of have to be legit. And they seem to carry sure. They're always like one kick away from being mentally disabled. And most of them have been kicked. Yeah. And this guy, it's a bad back profession. He told me, he said, Clay. I said, do I really need to, you know,

shod this? At the time, I had a horse, actually. Don't tell anybody I ever owned a horse. I had a horse. And I was like, do I really need this shoe this thing every six weeks? And he just said, Clay, people that are really dialed in in their equine business absolutely shoe every six to eight weeks. And so I said, okay. But he basically just showed me what he was doing.

And I watched him two or three times. And I was like, I think I can do that. And he was like, heck yeah, you can do it. And he just showed me how to do it. And so I started doing it primarily. not even financially as much as it's a pain in the rear to schedule somebody to come six weeks in advance to your house and you know you may not be there when they show up

because you forgot about it or something. So I started trimming my mule feet, which if you're running them on rocks and rough stuff, the feet kind of trimmed down on their own. But man, I put up that little video just because I thought it was kind of cool. And, you know, apparently I was using the knife backwards, which, I mean,

Come on. There's a sharp side. There's a right-handed and a left-handed hoof knife. And I had two of them there. And I just, I mean, I just pick up whichever one's closest. And it doesn't seem to be a limiting factor in what I'm doing. But, oh, man, they went off on me. Pretty good.

So are you aware of Dr. Pimple Popper? Oh, man. No. Okay, this is a huge thing for some people. I cannot stand it, but it's like what it sounds. I know who Cal's referring to. And it's a huge following, but this saint, and it's on people, right? And this persons or persons or whatever, they're plucking hairs, they're popping zits, they're doing.

They're spaghetti squeezing it out. There's very gnarly stuff, but this whole thing also exists in the agriculture community to where you can watch these lengthy videos with millions of views. of people working on abscess jaws, you know? Mm. You know, getting all the pus out of an abscess jaw. And then doctoring feet is a big thing. Oh, really? Yep.

Yeah. And so these people, and we're talking about horses here, just to be clear, correct? We're talking about the whole gamut of hooved animals. Of hooved animals. Yep. Yep. And so that's who you're dealing with, okay? So you just hold your head up high.

and know that you're dealing with a bunch of people with weird foot fetishes. Okay? And at the base of their complaints, they just want to see more, Clay. That is probably the best advice I've had. And I know that there are very professional ways, but to do stuff.

Here's my pretty strong philosophy that I have in life, though. That has worked out okay for me, is that if you take your instruction from the absolute experts in any field, and they set the bar for entry for you, you will likely be intimidated and never even get into that. Like I am a master at very few things, but good enough at quite a bit of stuff.

And trimming mule feet would be one of the things that I'm not a master at, but good enough, you know. And there's so much that I think people get hung up in the details that really, aren't the limiting factor of their entry point into something? Sure. Yeah. And the bars a lot lower. But obviously, you're going to go to the experts to learn how to do stuff.

You see what I'm saying. Yeah. And it's a paralysis of fear, right? They're like, oh, I'm going to make a mistake, so I'm not even going to try. Yeah. And you've got to try. Yeah. I mean, you've got to get in there some way and do it.

And in your case, man, if you got in a situation where you go a little too thin, and then all of a sudden you got a. bum foot on your mule you're gonna feel like crap and you're gonna be ultra careful but it's not it's not gonna lead into this they call that quicken a horse or a mule cutting it too quick i've done it one time and and and is he just had a sore foot for about two weeks and yeah i learned from it and you look at that you're like it makes me sad right right and you're way more careful the next time but isn't the world didn't end yep didn't have to shoot the mule didn't have to right steve what are your thoughts on these type of these type of people like the enthusiast groups yeah sensitive touchy

enthusiast groups yeah i'm less excited about telling you now that you gave the ferrier example because i would not put ferriers in the touchy enthusiast group thing but a lot of things like like beekeeping now this is going to insult all your beekeepers out there now not opposed to beekeeping in fact me my brother me and my brother danny one time sawed a beekeeping a beekeeping a tree open, which is probably bad. But we were clearing a lot. We were clearing a lot saw the tree open. Tree had to go anyway. Did you get the honey? Well, kind of. It's long story. It was it was we didn't do it. We didn't get like a centrifuge out and like get it out, but we dabbled. Had some bar and chain oil in there. It sucks. Yeah. It was like we're in high school. Um, anyways, it is apologies to everyone.

It's like a little trendy to have some bees. Sure. So. So. Why do you think we have them? So it's like a new thing. And you have people that previously probably didn't have a strong identity. And now they've found an identity. Okay? They found an identity. They used to just be like a person that they're like, they have some shows they like

and they like to drink certain things. And all of a sudden they get like they identify. Like they make 20 batches of beer and all of a sudden now they have an identity. and it impacts them deeply. When you're getting that kind of feedback, you're getting feedback from people who've made a new identity. So you don't think any of these comments are coming from

people who have been keeping bees for decades, maybe, and are gatekeeping. Kind of like, nope, stay out of my lane. No. If you had, let's say you had a video where you're like, here's how I've decided to feedlot cattle. This is how I'm going to fatten my cattle.

Do you think, that a guy who's been in the cattle fattening business for six generations, biggest cattle fattener in Kansas. Is he going to care? Is he going to be like, no, Clay, I find that when I'm fattening cattle, no. Yeah, he's going to be. He's just like, he's like, I don't, who cares? He's like, this is a guy that's going to fail and my cattle are going to sell for the world.

People don't know how to fatten cattle. You know, I'm not going to go into detail, but yesterday we were discussed. plan to get Steve an alternate identity on the internet just so he can make comments like these. Because I have to

yeah, but here's the thing too. Then I'm done, I'm done about this whole thing. Yesterday, our dinner guest, dinner mate, whatever you call them, was saying how

online haters are always unsuccessful. They're unsuccessful and unfulfilled in some way. I wonder, I like statement like this. Because it makes you feel good. Well, no, no, no. I like definitive statements

that probably aren't entirely true. But that statement, I mean, I guess you have to define what successful is, but yeah, it, it, people hating on the internet, it's a tough, it's a tough crowd to diagnose

in terms of, like, what's their motivation? You guys want to hear a quick t-shirt idea? Let's do it. Okay. Honeybee. Sitting there. on chunk of clover maybe with a bird dog

on full point on the honeybee trimming a mule foot and it says and it says STE Sensitive touchy enthusiast Okay I like it I like it I like it

Well I just thought I would bring that up because I'm going to keep trimming my mule feet I've got to just got no choice Corinne Yeah just do it put it out there I imagine you got the stall for holding their feet up and stuff, so you're not just bent over the whole time. No, man, I'm just, I'm doing like a lot of ferriers to do.

Just put it up in between your legs and work it. A lot of failures of bad backs, buddy. Yeah, yeah. I don't, it's not like I'm doing it every day, you know, once every couple of months. You know what, Clay? I got to tell you one last thing about that. That I saw that video. Are you going to join the criticism?

No, no. I don't know. I have zero opinions on the subject other than I have two friends that do that but they're watching them do it but I was watching and it looked to me such confidence and fluidity

that I thought it must not be you. Oh really? I thought it must be you filming your farrier. At first I was like oh Clay is doing this to a horse's foot and then I was like that can't be Clay he's never said about how he's never

said he's like way into that. And I was like, I appreciate his fear. Man, if you watched, if you watched a real ferrier, they would, they would be like so much more. And that's what the guys that were hacking on me,

one guy was like, yeah, I remember what my first beer was like. That was his literal quote like, like he could say like, yeah, you hadn't done this that much. Which is true.

Right. I mean, you know, the tone of the comment, it. Like, maybe it'd be different if it were just like some pointers. I'm looking for something a little more encouraging. Yeah, exactly. Guys, like some pointers, maybe some, you know, education. Or maybe just keep your mouth shut. That is my favorite part, though. It's like if you are the authority, here is a beautiful opportunity to interact with a bunch of people and give them something to go home with

out of the whole depth of experience that you have packed into your brain. But instead, what you say is, go F yourself. Right? And it's like, oh, so is that going to make people gravitate towards your intelligence to come find you the authority on this subject? It's like, no, no, nobody wants to interact with you. Nobody wants to have your grump spread around. Right?

Meanwhile, leave it be. Clay, who's not the, uh, the end point of experience on the hoof trimming scale, it's going to have a line out the front door because he's a nice person, he's going to take the time to talk to you. My wife thinks hoof trimming is extremely gross. Why?

Oh, she just, she watched me do it one time, and it does smell. Like, it has a smell. It's not necessarily a bad smell. It's just a distinct, like, hoof. Kind of like when you... Toneil, nail, nail. Yeah, like when you, like, grind a bone.

Or cut bone with a saw, you have that bone smell. It's kind of like that. Real quick. You need to shodd horses when they're, particularly when they're going to be traveling on rocky ground. Right. Go back to the American West 200 years ago. Where people are traveling long distances,

they're away from any kind of settlement civilizations. Are they just not doing it? I mean, obviously the like the horse-mounted plains Indian hunters were riding unshot horses. Sure. But they're on rocky ground. That is a question that I've never really heard someone concisely answer, but I'll tell you my understanding of it. In modern times, the modern breeding of our horses, they pretty much have to be shot if they're going to be used extensively. Just the hoof structure, they just stay together.

Their feet stay together so much better if they're shot. So those guys might have just burned them out quicker. Yep, I think so. And, you know, I mean, if you're talking about the Plains Indians and the horses that they had, I mean, they were consciously or unconsciously selectively breeding for animals that had strong hooves, you know. But obviously, wild horses didn't, weren't shod. but there are some horses that, I mean,

can't even walk through a flat pasture without shoes on. And it's just their foot structure. Yeah, just like us. Being from the north. There's also, you know, some people say if you never shoe them, you know, you don't,

you kind of buy shoeing them, you're creating a process that you have to continue, kind of like us wearing shoes. Like if you never wore shoes, you wouldn't need shoes. There's a fine line and a lot of it has to do with the specifics of that. animal. But that's also one of the reasons I love mules is for what I do with mules, I pretty much

never have to shoe them. Now, I was in Arizona two weeks ago with Warner Glen out there, and they have to shod their mules all the time just because they're walking on malpais, volcanic rock all the time constantly. So I mean there, Warner told me, he said, yeah, you could ride an unshawed mule in this country for one day. And then you'd have to put it up in a stall for two days and they could ride it again on the fourth day, you know. And so they shoe them all and don't have any trouble. But yeah, the whole shoeing thing's pretty wild. That's really interesting.

Yeah. You do read some stuff about like rawhide foot protection for horses back in the day. That's a real thing. I've read some references to it. Yeah. I don't know, but I think the burnout factor is a huge one because you read about the size of the horse herds for a lot of the plains tribes were immense. Yeah.

You know, immense immense. So I don't, I don't think anybody was, our idea of having an animal, like that's my go-to. I don't think it was a thing. Yeah. Man, I got to say this before we start talking about Jerry Clower, bringing up Warner Glen and mules. Warner Glen, 86 years old, lives in Arizona, cowboy, dry ground line hunter.

we hunted with him for four days. And on the first day, we rode in stuff that was the most treacherous, like the wildest mule stuff I've ever been in pretty much by far. And you're going out with this 86-year-old man and you think, I'd never ridden with him extensively. So I was like, we're probably going to kind of go easier places, just based upon the man's age. And there were a bunch of us

because there was a crew there. And at one point the dogs went over this big mountain and Warner said, okay, y'all go around and me and Clay are going to go just follow the dogs. And so we went up something that was just wildly steep,

boulders, limbs, just, it was the most treacherous half mile of mule riding I've ever done. That night, when we got back home over, dinner. I said, I said, Mr. Warner, on a scale one to 10, one being riding down a gravel, flat gravel road, 10 being the absolute hardest mule ride you've ever done in your life. What did we do today? And he said, oh, it was about an eight or a nine. He said, the reason being, if it was any worse,

you just couldn't have gone. And what he said to me, and I'll never forget it, and I kind of would have known this, but by him saying it, it kind of stamped it on me. He just said, if your mule will go, just ride it and go. He said, your mule will tell you when it's too much. And I mean, pretty much you're limited by just where that animal will go. If you spur it and it goes, it's not going to get itself into a situation that's going to hurt it. Now, it could hurt you. You could fall off. You could get raked off by a limb. You could, you know, bad stuff could happen to you, but that animal's going to be all right. So it was a pretty, pretty exciting time.

So you can't spur a mule off a cliff's edge. That's right. That's why that's their whole thing. Have you done much riding at night? A little bit. Probably not as much as some of these guys coming way back from back country. Yeah. That's a wild, wild thing, man.

It's not having your light on? Yeah. So you don't have your head lamp on. So the mule can see better. And yeah, you get that. feeling of floating sometimes and you're just like super dark nights and cross rivers up and down drainage and all they're all they're doing is heading for home and they kind of quicken up the pace the closer you get and it's it's pretty wild yeah but you get some real real confidence in them

yeah but there's also those zones with low-hanging branches yeah that's that's treacherous on blood trails the stories don't end when the hunt is over they just get darker I've seen something in the road. I instantly thought it was a sleeping bed and there was a pool of blood. Oh my God, he doesn't have a hit. Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors. Where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce, and the truth gets buried under brush and silence.

Indications were he should be right there, but he wasn't. This season, we're going deeper. From cold case files to whispered suspicions. From remote mountains to frozen backwoods. Each story begins in the wilderness and ends in darkness. Because out here, there are no witnesses, no cameras, just fragments, and the people left behind trying to piece them back together. He's not an honest person.

He's incapable of being honest. Somebody somewhere knows something. I'm Jordan Sillers. Season two of Blood Trails premieres April 16th. Follow now on Apple, Iheart, YouTube, or wherever. you get your podcasts. Speaking of mules, Jerry Clower loved mules.

He was a... That was a Corinne Schneider transition. He was big into mules. Odell him a mule? Yeah, yeah. He had the one where he was with a New York City music executive and he shot the mule, Uncle Versi's mule.

He was... Laid by 26 crops with her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so we've been doing a two-part series on the cultural impact of the book where the red fern grows and the way that i described it was it was that one time that coon hunting this super niche small scale hunting related thing did a 360 slam dunk on pop culture made them love it all right that's the truth i mean that that book is just so widespread to this day used across the country in urban areas i always thought it was kind of a regional phenomena because

I live about an hour from Talakawa where that book happened. So we did that. Somebody wrote me and I got to give them credit and I don't even know who it was and said, hey, you ought to do something on Jerry Clower. And I don't want to,

we could get into the details of how I know about Jerry Clower, which we will. We will. Steve has a few things to say whether you like it or not. But very quickly, what I so the render, part of the render is seeing behind the scenes of the Bear Greece pod We didn't have this planned out for a long time.

If we had, I'd have had my friend Steve Ronella talk about Jerry Clower because apparently he's an expert on Jerry Clower. We put this together relatively quickly. And so my friend Isaac Neal, who helps me with some bergery stuff, I was in Arizona and I said, Isaac, when I come home on Monday, I have got to have an expert about Jerry Clower that I, I mean, I've got to get an audio recording in like two days from when I get home. when I got he was messaging me and what he he he he he scoured the internet called jerry's old manager and couldn't get in touch with him and so he called the the the city council office

of liberty mississippi hmm calls him on the phone city council and he tells them hey we're trying to find a jerry clow expert they give him the cell phone number of the mayor of liberty Mississippi, which he calls and leaves a message with the mayor of Liberty, Mississippi. Within three hours, he gets a call from John Newman, Jerry Clower's neighbor from East Fork, Mississippi. So Jerry lived in East Fork. And so Isaac's like, Clay, we got Jerry Clower's neighbor. And I hadn't talked to John. So I didn't know much about him. I said, you know, what's he like? Is he excited to do this like what's the extent of his knowledge of jerry and you know he said man he seems pretty legit pretty excited and so i called john and just a deep southern accent just like jerry you know i

find these regions have obviously like a mississippi mississippi accent would sound a certain way if you're from arkansas you sound a certain way but it's very regional one time steve you'd like this story when i was in college the first day of some big college class when you're in this big auditorium, I sat down in the seat and I heard a guy two chairs behind me talking. And I turned around, I didn't look at it, I didn't know who he was. I turned around and I said, you're from Gerdon, Arkansas. And he was from Gerdin, Arkansas. And I'd recognized his accent in a heartbeat because I had a friend from Gerdin, Arkansas. Just immediately I picked it up. I say that to say that to say,

say the accent of the south is varied extremely varied and but not when you're a yankee yeah yeah maybe so maybe so you're from down there yeah yeah no i i i see what you're saying but east fork mississippi it was eight hours from my house so i drove to east fork mississippi and met john Newman. Huh. And can I give just a little bit of color commentary? Yeah. Liberty, Mississippi.

728 would be the population. Okay. The mayor is the mayor of what is known as a micropolitan area. 12 miles east of McComb, Mississippi. I think McComb, Mississippi, as Jerry says it, is the big town. But Liberty is the county seat of Amherty. Amity. Nope. Amit.

Amit. They'll nail you. Amit River Swamps. A-M-I-T-E. Emphasis on the A. Amit River. I love it. Yeah.

So a lot of Jerry Clower stuff takes place in the Amet River Swamp. Yes. So, Steve, what was, what's your connection to Jerry Clower? You know, I thought about it long and hard after. Can I first tell my problem? Yes. My problem is I. I like right when I knew you liked hunting raccoons

I was telling you y'allelot you all listen to Jerry Clower you all listen to Jerry Clower now I listen I was listening to Jerry Clower before you were born so you remember when you were talking about bees and the same thing

so the fact that the fact that you would do the Jerry Clower thing and and not even and I would have to find out about it through Phil? I can see how that would be really hurt. So I'll tell you that first, okay, I thought about it.

Like, what was my initial Jerry Clower touch point? It was this. I could actually put, I could go back home and conduct some interviews and I could probably find out the exact year because I know where my bus stop was at the time. My bus stop was one mile from my house. And it was... Can you do this in a Jerry Clower? hour style.

One mile from... I will. It was... You need three compass directions. One mile east. Of where Duff Road and Strail Road came together.

Okay. It was... Yeah, I could do all that. Yeah. You could if you had time. Triangulation. It was... We had to walk that far to the bus stop

because they needed to have a certain amount of visual clearance down the road. roads and apparently so for a while they moved our bus stop to a horrible faraway spot reason i say this i heard a jerry clower story and it was the one he tells about the little boy out on a moped or something and a brand new i can't remember what car like some sports car pulls up next to him and the little boy is like so curious about the car the owner the car rolls the window down and the boy's got his nose in there and he's

smelling a new leather and he's just so blown away and the light turns green and the motors decides to impress the little boy and just gun it out of the intersection so he peels rubber out of the intersection heads down the road and a while later in his rearview mirror he sees this little boy overtaking him on the moped and fooom passed him and a little while later he comes back the other direction fooom passes him and a while they're here he's see him coming again. He's like, how is that boy going that fast and smash into the car? And the guy gets out.

He's like, oh, is there anything I can do for you? And he's like, yes, sir, you can unhook my suspenders from the rear, from the side view mirror. So, and I remember going down to the bus stop. You were tickled by that one when you were. Yeah, I remember going down to that bus stop at that bus stop in that spot and telling people about it. And what it was was my mom had been raised in a farm area outside of Chicago that became like,

now it's like a big Chicago subdivision, Naperville, I think. She was a WGN listener because she liked Chicago Cubs. Even when she moved four or five hours away from Chicago up into Michigan, she would do anything possible to try to get WGN. So I grew up with WGN always playing. She liked the Cubs games All that Clower used to go

So this would have been in the I was born in 74 This has been like late 70s Early 80s Clower would go on WGN Tell a story now and then No one Like we knew about them

No one knew about them As the point It wasn't like a thing It was like we had a very like specific entry Into Clower But we liked them a lot So we probably had the eight tracks At a time

But we had like Jerry Clower cassette tapes in the car. My parents would find this stuff and buy it, and we would listen to Clower. And then even in all through high school, all through college, within my immediate group of friends, we would make Clower references all the time. Really? Yeah. If we were describing a tree, you'd be like, there wasn't a limb on it for a while, right?

Yeah. And like we had all these clower jokes we would run. later when I was in graduate school there's this novelist from Mississippi named Larry Brown from Oxford, Mississippi and he kind of like took me under his wing a little bit and we became buddies

would go drinking together and stuff he actually passed away or had a heart attack when he was young I was like oh one day we're just talking and I said to Larry Brown I'm like you're from Mississippi have you ever heard of the guy

Jerry Clower not only that he hung out with Jerry Clower and that's what made me think that you like the Mississippi people southern people whatever like somehow all know each other yeah yeah and Larry Brown would talk about how he was friends with Jerry we talked about how Jerry had a rule for himself that he wouldn't tell a story on stage on a radio show that he wouldn't stand

that he wouldn't feel comfortable standing up in front of his church and tell him yeah and what, Clower died in 98. Yeah. Yeah, it wasn't too terribly much longer that Larry Brown died. Hmm. But that was the first person outside of my immediate circle that I ever encountered that knew who that guy was. So my biggest question was how big of a national phenomena Jerry Clower was.

Because he was on the Grand Old Opry, which would have had, you know, a national presence. but he was I talked to Dr. Brooks Blevins who is kind of an Ozarks regional expert and I just kind of pitched an email to him like hey do you know anything about Jerry Clower he knows quite a bit about other southern cultural related stuff and his comment to me was that

he felt like Clower was kind of a regional phenomena and and you know he acknowledged that he would have been known at the wider scale but you know obviously the hub of his, the hub of his, his base was clearly the south. But Clower also talked about traveling up in the northeast and telling stories. He actually, in one of the books, he has a book called Stories from Home, and it really was just a transcription of a big, long interview they did with him.

And he talked about when he was in the South, he could tell stories just real freely without explanation of stuff. Sure. And when he was anywhere else, his stories would be longer because he would say something like boiled okra and he would have to qualify it. Yeah, or the raccoon tapped a tree. Yeah. Then he got where he had to explain the terms for everybody. Well, just here, and you say that you, I mean, I was surprised.

I actually considered texting you that week that we were building this, which was just last week. And I was going to say, do you know who Jerry Clower is? And I do remember, I remember now you telling me that. Yeah, yeah, I do remember you telling you. If you want to get, if you want to increase the number, like, you could might say to someone, do you know who Jerry Clower is? They're going to say no. Then say to him this. Imagine back to when you were a kid.

Do you remember a magic bait commercial in which a man said, it'll fling a craven on them? speaking of magic you the use of magic bait will fling a craven onto catfish that is jerry clower so he did a commercial for that company and it was like magic bait it'll fling a craven on him that's jerry that was jerry clower's voice and that'll get a lot a lot of people would be like oh yeah i remember that i'd be like if you you remember the guy the milk guy verne and all that what the hell's that guy's name i don't remember yeah you can say like hey do you remember his name i wasn't born when a lot of your life happened. It sounds so funny too because what you're talking about.

The intersection of the core demographic and where that core demographic overlaps with the magic catfish bait. I think you may be giving it too much credit. Because the widespread phenomenon. That had six people. Yeah. I got a buddy in Alabama who is just like your classic soft-spoken storytelling dude. And his, he knows that he just had giant repertoire Jerry Clower stories. And he'll just like slow roll them out for you.

And they're first person stories, right? And so after the very first one, you're like, oh, I do. get it. This is not your story. It's just a good story. But there's a great one about this kind of well-to-do gentleman. He's out there squirrel hunting, not doing very good. And here comes this boy up the road who's just obviously from a lower-class society, right, other side of the tracks. And he's got a bunch of squirrels hanging from his belt. But no. This is a clower story. Yeah. No, yeah, yeah. No gun or anything. And he said, oh, son looks like you're doing pretty good.

And so, oh, yes, yes, sir, yes, sir. You know, all Clower stories are like very polite. And talks, you know, addresses the squirrel. Squirrel's on the kid's belt after giving him a spare apple. And they're talking about the squirrel season. And he says, well, son, I see you don't have a gun. He says, no, sir. at, uh, use a sling or, or just slings rocks at him. He said, he said, I just chuck rocks at him.

Yeah. And, and, and pretty soon a squirrel presents itself and, and, and the guy says, son, why, why don't you take a crack at that thing? And so I think like left-handed, he wings a rock up there, knocks squirrel off the tree and ties another squirrel to his belt. The, the gist of the story is, is like, oh man, I, I, and you're a lefty to boot or something like that.

And the kid's like, oh, no, sir. My, my, uh, Papa won't let me use my right hand.

I beat them up too much. He said his, he had those squirrels tucked up under his belt, and it looked like a squirrel, hula skirt. That's what he said. Yeah. You know,

I, I, I, it had been a long time since I'd listen to Jerry Clower. And when I was driving to aim it, County, Mississippi, I listen to him nonstop. On Spotify and Amazon music, they have Jerry Clower's

greatest hits, they have Possoms, Peaches and Possum, so there's different albums, and then they have Clower Power. So there's three albums. There's some deep cuts on Spotify, too, though, or maybe no, you can find

some deep cuts, maybe on YouTube, but I feel like there's some deep cuts on Spotify. When you say there's more, is what you're saying. Yeah, like hidden gems. Yeah. Deep cuts is like a term for stuff no one knows about B sides, B sides and music. I was actually kind of surprised to find it so easily on these main platforms. It's amazing that it's out there. Yeah. Yeah. I listen to them all the way down. I bet they're not aware. If you went to the, if you met like the CEO of Spotify, but I really, you know, appreciate you guys got some clower up there. I doubt it's going to be like, oh yeah,

that was a real negotiation. Yeah. All the way from the top. I think it's... All those stories are so, like, wholesome. Yeah. It's due for resurgence, right? Like, all I do is read up-to-date, like, periodical all, all day, every day.

And it's amazing, like, how stories like that now triggers such an emotional response. Because everything else, like, you have to see. suck all the emotion out of it just to get through and be like, oh, a bunch of people dying, you know, the environment getting destroyed. And then you're like, oh, he's actually right-handed. It's amazing. I love it. I love it. You know, I, there were a couple of things that, that did stand out to me. I never really thought, I would have never thought of Clower as intentionally like a clean comedian. I mean, we just listened to him,

and it's just kind of like who he was. You didn't compare him up against somebody who was different than him. Clower overlap with George Carlin, Richard Pryor. Right? I mean, folks that started, they were the ones who started cussing in common.

Shock humor. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I appreciated, well, going back in and reading his, and I don't know if it's the most in-depth, you know, that book story, from home like he made a very intentional decision and I said it on the podcast I value stuff like

that when somebody has a has a strategy that is against the trend and they just do that strategy and he said that somebody a Hollywood exec or somebody that was you know over him said hey man you're you're going to have to be more risque if you want to be nationally known and in his words quote he said I defied them you know and he uh and he just stuck with who he was, you know. He didn't let it change him. That's what I appreciate. He didn't let it change him. And man, that is what, you know, I talked to John Newman for like two hours, and you probably heard maybe 26 minutes of John Newman talking about Jerry. And the main thing that he wanted to tell me was just what an incredible guy Jerry was, just as a neighbor and a friend and the things he would do

for you in private. So, I mean, he was just this genuine guy. But clearly a comedic genius. And And what I asked John, I said, do you think Jerry was, and I knew the answer to this. I just kind of wanted to see what he would say. I said, how was Jerry influenced by the people around him? And I know the answer because I know the way that I talk and tell stories is 100%. I mean, I could track you. I could point it back to the people in different things that I do. that, I mean, it's not like I'm trying to imitate them.

Just you hear someone talk or you hear someone tell a story. And it just, that communication style, you identify with it, and then you kind of adopt it in. Yes, you recognize it. It's like, it's effective. It's an effective way. Yeah. And even a cultural way to do something.

And so you create this, you know, inside of your personality and the way you communicate, you tell stories. Man, Jerry had to have been surrounded by. some big characters down there in the south. John didn't really, he just said a lot of Jerry's stuff was just natural, which it certainly was, and he kind of came up with his own unique style,

but man, I guarantee you those guys down there, they told stories like that. And the other thing, and I'd like to hear you guys' thoughts on it, Jerry is the one who said, he said, I'm not a comedian. Well, no, no, no.

No, he said I don't. No, no, somebody said, Jerry wasn't as much a comedian as he was a humorist. And then the quote from Jerry Clower was, he said, I don't tell funny stories. I tell stories funny. I know that that exists, but I completely disagree. I mean, he did tell funny stories,

but I think what he was talking about was he always had the hook and the part of the story that was really funny, which was a funny story. But all the stuff up until that, like I'm from East Fork, Mississippi, name it, County and da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. I mean, like, he's just, that's not funny stuff,

but he told it funny. I think that's what he meant. No, I got you. But he, like, there's an interview where, I can't remember if it was Larry David or Jerry Seinfeld talking about the writing of Seinfeld, okay?

And that they eventually realized that when someone goes somewhere, like, you can't have a scene in a bowling, alley because something needs to happen there he goes they have to be in the bowling alley for a funny reason i see and then something funny can happen at the bowling alley everybody has to be somewhere for a funny reason i see right you don't just have it set for no reason in a bowling alley so that someone can meet someone's mom it's like they go to the bowling alley for and if you if you watch curb your enthusiasm

everywhere they go. They're already there for a funny reason. And then something funny happens. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, clower, I mean, probably my favorite

clower story is the guy that uses the monkey to hunt raccoons. Yeah. The monkey with the pistol and the flashlight. Yeah. Okay.

Like, they're out, there's a funny punchline, but they're out in the swamp for a funny reason. Because a guy is like, I can hunt I could kill more coons than anybody

with this monkey than anyone with the dog. Right? So they're out in the swamp for a funny reason. Like he follows, and he was doing his way before those guys are doing it, but I'm saying like he follows the roadmap of comedy. Yeah.

Well, he did it too. He's like, it's like he is a, he's pioneering for sure. But he's definitely like has a home. He's like a honed craft. He's got to a different approach though too.

Okay. And I touched on this a bit last night, but it's like, it's like a fable, right? And he starts with like the basis of something. And he's like, oh, but wouldn't it be funny if it happened like this and this is the end result? Sure.

When Norm MacDonald passed away, I was watching a lot of Norm MacDonald. I'm still, I'm still doing it. I can't stop. Like Conan O'Brien posted this thing. He's like, the funniest guest was Norm MacDonald, and he laboriously tells this joke.

And it's a joke that you've heard in some way before, and it's like a fly walks into, like, a barber shop. And it's telling, telling the barber about all the bad things in his life and everything. and the barber's fine like, well, you know, next door is the therapist office. And he says, I know. And he keeps telling him about it. And he says, no, next door is the therapist office. He said, why are you in the barbershop? And he said, well, because he had the light on.

So it was a moth, right? It was a moth. But Norm McDonald tells it on live TV. And as if the whole other world only showed up to hear this like, whatever story of his and it's so belabored and it is one of the funniest

funniest things I've seen in the telling and so Clower kind of it wasn't his joke he just built up the world around

the world around it and so Clower like everybody's heard this anecdotal joke of you know I always said you know a couple of guys sitting around

oh nice shot and the other guy turns around and goes, should see me with my right hand or see me with my left hand, right? And it's like that is the joke. We've all heard it a gazillion times, but you put it in the context to like two people from different worlds

out in the squirrel woods, bump into each other, have this moment together, and then should see me with my right hand. Yeah. Yeah, he like could dress up, he could take like a simple joke and dress it up and put it in an eight minute context.

But like the one I branched earlier, the suspender thing, that's not telling a story funny. Yeah. It's a kid that got a suspension. It's like, it is funny. Yeah, yeah. That was for sure. And the, in the, the monkey with a pistol and a flashlight isn't telling a story funny. At the same time, though, I mean, he covers both.

He's such a musical performer, too. He's very dynamic. The highs are high and the lows are low and you have to kind of strain to listen. He draws you in and pushes you away and brings you back in. at Norm McDonald's, you know, incredibly funny as perfect timing, he's not dynamic in that way. Yeah, he's got a lot of time.

He's very dry and dead pan. Isn't that funny? I got two, I just realized the two things I needed to tell you. You can get around to me when you want, but to help me remember, McCulloch chainsaws and details. But say whatever you want,

but just remember. I was just going to say, I wanted to make a whole section about it on the podcast, but his sound effects. He, when I listened to him, like I start to laugh inside every time he goes who

he kind of has a growly he's got man in that coon who came down that tree I mean you know you just can't replicate that and you can tell it was so natural and it was the most fascinating thing and I wouldn't have known this about Clower that he

he was 45 years old He was a fertilizer salesman for Mississippi Chemical and was just a funny guy. I mean, he had built a whole life, a whole life as just this country salesman. He sounded like such a joyful spirit. Yeah. And maybe for all of those decades of his life,

he soaked up a whole lot. I mean, honestly, I didn't grow up in a chicken coop. I grew up in a concrete box. And I had not heard of... In New York City. Yep, exactly. Somebody from Yazu, Mississippi doesn't just show up in New York City, Cran. And just to follow up on that, my favorite part of the podcast, Clay, was listening to Brent Reeves recall him their meeting.

He sounded so wistful. And he got emotional. He remembered every tiny detail. You a pretty boy. I'll never forget that. That's the thing you cannot say to someone in the door. You are a pretty boy. boy. I was like, yeah, I'll be taking it off.

Cree, what was your thought? Had you ever heard of Jerry Cloud? No, no, I had not. Shocker. Yeah, totally surprising, right? My first interaction with his comedy was listening to your episode yesterday. Which I had to pause. Right. To go play the chainsaw monkey.

I had to pause to play the monkey story. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was cackling. I mean, it was just his delivery, his spirit. It just hearing him was so feel good and so funny. I was driving while listening, and it was probably a dangerous situation because the okra line about he ate so much okra

that he couldn't keep his socks up. People in his county were too poor to sin. I just, it's, I don't know. you know, the delivery, the energy, the everything, even if not necessarily relatable, he, it seemed maybe after, you know, starting late in his life, that he perhaps had already solidified

to a great degree his confidence in himself, his sense of who he was. Yeah. And that his comedy was maybe so good because it was him being him and relaying stories in a funny way or funny stories from the entirety and the breath of his experience.

I just found it so delightful. You know, him being 45 to our dinner guest last night, who was a comedian, he said that confidence is such an important part of comedy. Just being confident in who you are. And at 45, after dealing with, you know, all these farmers, for all these years going and selling chemicals and sell fertilizer.

Like he was, he knew who he was. He didn't need to change. I think when he stepped into showbiz, it was just a matter of shifting a few things around and just kind of being who he was, you know. That's what was so cool about it. Fertilizer business is a beautiful thing too, right? Because he's like, he can walk into any co-op, right, and be like, I know you need what I'm selling.

Yeah. I bet this is, do you want to buy it for me? I bet there's some stories all over the south of him. In his role. Well, of people that he sold to. Stories of him as the salesman. Lastly, well, we'll end with your chainsaw stuff. And details real quick.

I was very glad to hear. I would not have known about Jerry's positions on race in the 70s. I just looked it up. I was just like, I just typed in something about that. And immediately it popped up some of his quotes and people saying, Jerry was 30 years ahead of race.

I thought that was noteworthy. Yeah. He'd get, I mean, he'd still get canceled now. If you listen to everything he does. Right. Because like his jokes about women's liberation and stuff,

they'd come after him pretty hard. Yeah, yeah. He wouldn't say him, but they'd come after him hard about it. Right. Yeah. Man,

comedians, you could, with a little historical revision, we'd just wipe them out. You know, his whole big joke about how good his wife's got it. Yeah. You don't want to mess with what mama's got because she loves it. Yeah, his whole thing is, he looks at the woman's liberation movement and what they're after. Then he talks about how grave his wife has it. Yeah. And he's like, she don't want none of that shit.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. McCulloch chainsaws. Oh, it was funny in the show that you were talking about because you were associating Clower's chainsaw from the famous talking chainsaw and your old man having a McCulloch.

So our family chainsaw was a McCulloch. A yellow McCulloch. Yep. And it was just funny because it was like we understood later that like it took note of the fact that Marcell's chainsaw was the chainsaw we owned which I don't know what the hell happened to that company

yeah but I was in the chainsaw tree business for a lot of years and never laid eyes on another McCullough yeah as he puts it another thing you hit on is his use of detail and he's like a very good in that way a very good technically proficient

writer and the thing I returned to is his like the coon hunting story, probably his most famous story, his description of the tree. Like if you listen carefully to his description of like

how big the tree is. He's so efficient. But his like how big the tree is the person that's going to climb the tree, what their attitude is about tree climbing, when they take off their shoes, they don't just take off their shoes.

They take off a pair of Brogan shoes. Yeah, yeah Which was like The poor working persons It told you who this guy was It was like the most functional Like poor It'd be like if you were

Like when I was a kid It'd be like He took off his hush puppies Right And you'd be like Got it Like yeah I know everything about that kid now

I know about that kid's parents Sensibilities Like he took off his tough skins Okay You'd be like Got it Like I know that person's parents I grew up with that person

He takes off a pair of Brogan shoes. And then the thing to the he says, and I pointed this out, I told Corinne about this later, is, you know, sweetgum's got smooth bark, kind of like a soft, smooth bark, and that he buries his toenails into the bark to start climbing it. It's like, this is like beautiful build of like very telling details. You know, as I said that, I was envisioning, like trying to tell a Kunun story. like him. And I had the same thought about how efficient he was, even with detail. Because sometimes someone tells a story and you're like, okay, come on, speed it up. Like too much, you know, there's too much detail.

And he would give you just the right amount of detail and the places you needed it and then skip. Sure. I mean, it's just natural. Like, I doubt he sat down and really thought about it much. It was just instinctual. But a lot of his, a lot of his, you know, comedy, the did. different routines were like under two minutes. Like the chandelier, one on.

That is a perfect joke. The chandelier story. Like that's like a minute and 50 seconds. Yeah, I just, it's not, I mean, no one really likes to hear someone break down a joke and tell you why it's funny. But I love that he stands up. He's like, well, no one could spell chandelier anyway. So I don't think, I don't, why are we doing this? And you're like, how that's funny?

And also no one could play this chandelier. And then as a listener, you're like, huh? What? And then the, the punchline, I'd much rather, spend the money and getting some lights in here. It's so, it's perfect. And then as you heard from John Newman, that actually happened word for word basically.

That was one of the stories that just like straight up happened and Jerry just told it, you know, which is pretty amazing. Now, what I hope this does is everybody can go find some Jerry Clower. It would be hard, I think it would be hard for anybody to listen to that and not find some bit of enjoying it. I've seen it happen. I've seen it happen. Okay. Every person that I, over the years, every person that we travel with

on the crew, I've subjected them to clour. Most of them get something out of it. I've seen something where it just is like... Yeah. No connection. I don't know. Yeah. Shut down. I watch them. I watch them. I watch them listen. Huff trimmers on the internet.

I watch them listen and I'm like... Is it that type person? I'm like it really this really like no part of this. Like, I do think you have to have some connection to, I think you have to have some connection to rural life. No, you just got to be a cold person if you can't. Or just your, or yeah.

I was at. Cold blood running through your veins. Yeah. The pheasants forever, quail forever deal talking a couple weeks ago. And over and over, I had a bunch of little talks on the stage there. And over and over again, people would be, well, how to, any tips? for getting first time hunters into and it's kind of like this Jerry

Clower thing like I don't understand how you couldn't like it and for me upland bird hunting is the same way I'm like lots of exercise beautiful country dogs doing doing their dog thing doing the thing that they're made to do and

my success rate in taking first time upland bird hunters out who like really want to go again is next to zero Col. It's like I walked a Lord of the End place and shot my gun once.

And I got Jerry Clower was a big Coil hunter man. We don't have time to get into it but he said something that I thought was great detail. I don't think I brought it up in the episode but when in the story of when he had to

shoot Uncle Versi's mule when he had to put it down he went to Uncle Verses and said hey, we're going to hunt on your property. And Uncle Versa, goes, oh, that's great. There's seven or eight covies between here and the road. I thought that was a, that's something somebody would say. Seven or eight covies between here and the road.

I know what you're trying to wrap it up. That was another running joke with me and my friends in just like teenage years is dealing with landowners and trying to get permissions. It was a joke where it's like only people that do that would get how receptive when he goes to get permission. oh I'm so glad you come out and hunt my place like only someone who's like dealt with like permissions all the time would find it funny that like Jerry goes to get permission

and the guy's like so glad you're here. Yeah. We've been saving them for you. You're doing me a service. Man, there's so many jewels inside of that. And so it's been a lot of fun. Thank you guys for being on the bearergerie surrender. Oh, it's great.

Thank you. appreciated. Yeah, I hope the original crew doesn't have too much of a problem. No, this is a lot better. Anything y'all would like to say? What's that? To the pork rides? What's that? To the pork rats? The original four cries? The cracklins. The cracklons? Cheater-jured. Here's how to do it right, boys. Yeah. And lady. On blood trails, the stories don't end when the hunt is over. They just get darker.

and there was a full of blood. Oh my God, he doesn't have a head. Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors, where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce, and the truth gets buried under brush and silence. Indications were he should be right there, but he wasn't. This season, we're going deeper, from cold case files to whispered suspicions,

from remote mountains to frozen backwoods. Each story begins in the wilderness and ends in darkness. Because out here, there are no witnesses, no cameras, just fragments and the people left behind trying to piece them back together. He's not an honest person. He's incapable of being honest. Somebody somewhere knows something. I'm Jordan Sillers. Season 2 of Blood Trails premieres April 16th. Follow now on Apple, IHeart, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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