Bear Grease - Ep. 482: Render - Lost Dogs, Lost Cause, and U.S. Grant

Episode Date: July 22, 2026

Clay Newcomb and Render Crew members Dr. Misty Newcomb, Brent Reaves, Bear Newcomb, and Josh "Landbridge" Spielmaker dig into latest episode of the Civil War Summer on Ulysses S. Grant. They unpack the surprising life of a man who went from repeated failure to becoming the Union's most important general, discussing Grant's struggles with alcohol, remarkable horsemanship, complicated family ties to slavery, and the leadership qualities that ultimately changed the course of American history. Along the way, the conversation wanders—as it always does—from Clay's disastrous attempt to turn a young hound loose on a deer, to the launch of the new Bear Grease bib overalls, branding python boots, and why "graceful form in the saddle" may be the highest compliment a man could receive. Thank you to our sponsor, Tecovas. If you have comments on the show, send us a note to [e-mail] Connect with Clay and MeatEater Clay on Instagram MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, and Youtube Clips MeatEater Podcast Network on YouTube Shop Bear Grease MerchSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Crave, Netflix, and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on Internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. Did you hear Phelps has teamed up with a bunch of other high-end brands to do the Ultimate Elk giveaway? Anyone who is 18 or older can sign up to win.

an amazing gear package that includes a new rifle or bow along with great supporting gear. The winner will pick their rifle package or archery package. For every $25 spent, you get 10 additional entries. The sign-ups end July 26 at Phelpsgamecalls.com. My name is Clay Newcomb, and this is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called the Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper,

and look behind the scenes of the actual bear grease podcast. Brought to you by Toccova's boots. I'm a cowboy boot man, and I've been wearing Tocobas for years. They're the most comfortable boot I've ever put on. Good boots for good times. Your finger is exactly this length of your nose. Oh, really?

From this joint to the tip. Right here, this joint, the middle joint. Middle joint. If you put that up to the end of your nose, this is a trick. Look here. Yeah, I'm not doing it yet. finger, your finger will go from there.

Which finger? Are you... The index finger. If you put your thumb just below the knuckle. Is it accurate? Just below the knuckle. Like it. Look. Look.

Put your thumb, Misty, where your knuckle... It goes from the tip of your nose to where your nose joins right there. It's not a trick. Unless you have a spill maker nose. And there's a lot of landscape there. What is happening is I told Bailey that one time. And it's also the same length of your ear, believe it. or not. That's true.

Until you get to be 60. So I'm sitting there and I've told this and I caught Bailey sitting on the couch one day looking at me and looking at my, looking at the profile of my nose and doing this to herself. And she had the saddest look on her face. Well, I'm going to get daddy's nose. When I caught her, what she's doing, I let her do it for a while. and I look around and she's just like, oh.

I'm like, I may have made the dance team, but I'm going to have to tote that around eventually. So welcome to the Bear Greas render. We've got Brent Reeves sitting in his Brent Reeves chair. We got Josh Lambridge spillmaker, Bear John Newcomb, Dr. Misty Newcomb in the Tukova's hot seat. This is big.

Yeah. We were expecting a lot of you today. Okay. This episode, because this is an incredible episode. But I want to start the episode out with a story. When you say story, let me tell you about my grandma. This would be real quick. I hate to keep interrupting.

I need to know what kind of story you're talking about. She, if something got broke, unbeknownst to me, she would hem me up in the corner where the yardstick and say, Brent, what happened to the window? Don't tell me no story. So is this a true story or is this, because she meant lie? Well, maybe she meant I don't want to be entertained right now. Yeah, doubtful.

When I tell you this story, you're going to know this story's true because of how bad it makes a lot of, well, one particular animal look. Okay. So, yeah, it's a true story. It's a very true story. So I, as some of you might know, I have a, you. year, probably a 15-month-old plot, registered plot, coonhound. It's not really a coonhound. It comes from coon-hound stock, really good cun hound stock, as a matter of fact, I mean, as plots go. And, but I have not hunted this dog much. The dog, so it's not the dog's fault that it's not a coon dog.

It might be a little bit of a living. It's a little bit of its fault. It's pretty shy, like, Cripplingly shy. It's a little bit of a... It's what you might call in the dog world a limit. I still have inkling of hope because based upon one day... If that dog ends up on the meat eater auction house... You'll know maybe stay away from it. So this dog, I like the dog.

We call her Polly. It's named after David Crockett's first wife who died. tragically. Who was not a lemon. She was a good woman, according to Cricket. And Polly, me and Polly and Connie, our

little feist dog, went for a walk the other day, and I had Polly off, no lead, no collar, no nothing. And she usually just stays fairly close, just kind of hunts up in the woods, and we walk during the day down this gravel country road that I live on.

And nothing, everything is fine. They don't ever run off. You know, they'll chase squirrels or, and it's been a long time since I've actually seen a deer, like, from my house. We have plenty of deer around here, but you don't see them that much. I'm walking, Polly, come around the corner down here on the gravel road, Brent, and pointing towards the west, I see a deer fawn standing in the road 40 yards away. Just like, we just come around the corner and just, bam, there's a deer fawn standing the road. And here's me and Polly and Connie. And we all see it at the same time.

And like me and the two dogs just kind of like look at each other. And I go, this is not going to be great. And Polly, the plot just takes off after this Fawn. And the Fawn flags and runs. And they're running dead away from me, due west, which is good. Because due east, a half a mile is a paved road and is a city. Okay? half a mile the opposite direction.

But they're running towards the country. Right. And so here goes Polly, and I start yelling. Hey, hey, no, no, no, no, clapping. And here she goes, and here's a race. And I just hear him going. And Polly's after this. And the Fawn's big enough that it can outrun the dog.

So the Fon's not in danger. The Fon runs out there about 250 yards and makes a loop through the woods and comes back and hits the gravel road and I'm running down the gravel road trying to break up this deer race and I see the fawn coming back towards me headed towards town and the woods are cramped onto the road and that deer runs right I mean I could have reached out and like petted the deer when it ran back past me really after the race had already started I mean if this happened a million times on planet earth it would not happen this way again That deer runs out there,

turning 50 yards, and here it comes run down the road, and I'm just like, and it just runs right past me, but then here comes Polly, just full tilt, loping like a quarter horse. And what do I do?

I just do everything I can. I just rear back and, I mean, just try to grab it, you know, as it runs by. And she gets through me, and I see them just running down the road straight towards town. Well, I take off running after them,

and you kind of come around a corner and you can see a straight stretch like all the way to the blacktop. You can see for a long ways. I watched them run out of sight and that deer never leaves the gravel road. Really? And I go back and get Misty and I'm like, we got to get the can Am. We got to go into town. Polly is after a deer.

Down deer. City deer. And we drive. It was just gone to the store to buy some corn. We drive down there and this would come out later, my sweet, elderly neighbors just happen to be looking out the window when the gravel turns to blacktop and they see a deer and polly just er-oh-oh going down the blacktop and shortly behind they cross a major road cross a major road headed towards the white river run right through the guy's yard

on the other side and they're just gone that that deer ran a half mile down the middle of a gravel road that turned to pavement. Is that not a story? Yeah. So what happened with Polly? Well, she eventually gave up the race and like... Came back? Somebody called me.

Oh, no. Somebody called me. I was like, hey, I got a dog over here. Like, if any animal is loose in town, they call Clay. Well, no, it had a call. And the two dogs, so the neighbors told Bear and I, they said, hey, we think they didn't know about Polly. They knew about the Feist.

Connie. the Conquistador, and they told me, they said, hey, we think we might have seen your dog. They said, we saw a deer, a fawn run past, then we saw a big black dog, and then we saw your tiny squirrel dog running behind them trying to catch up. And the neighbors told us that the squirrel dog and the coon dog, in air quotes, were in the field, just running around playing. They called their names, and they ran up to them, and we're just happy to see them. So they looked at the caller, they called us, and we went and we were trying to track them, but we kept finding. It had rained, and so there was some runoff where the...

Yeah, I was tracking them on the asphalt from the mud on their feet. Really? See the tracks down the asphalt. So that's my story. I'm glad you put a name with that dog because I didn't know that dog. But we just met Connie and I. Oh, yeah. The Conquistador?

Yeah. I had stopped my grandmother coming right back into this. this story. Anytime, you know, roadside places to stop for convenience on long trips. We're few and far between back in the day.

And she would tell my grandfather to pull over, she needed to change her coat, take her coat off. That's what she said. I need to take my coat off. Which meant she had to go to the bathroom. So, wow. I had rented,

you only rent a big, quarter of smart water. You don't buy it. So I was paying the Piper right down here. Mm-hmm. 100 yards from the end of the driveway on my way here to this very event. Yes.

And talking on the phone, on the speaker phone. Yeah, a lot going on. A lot going on. And I'm just trying to interpret this. And facing, I'm getting there. And I'm facing away. I'm facing away. And a little dog comes up and jumps up behind me that I did not know was there.

I may not be again for six months He threw a stone when that happened About threw a shoe It scared the fire out of me And there was Connie Connie I looked and I thought well that's one of Newcomb's dogs But her name is Connie

We've met That's Connie So I just wanted to I just wanted to throw that story out there That's good So are you glad that little coon dog got a little game

I mean the dog doesn't The story gets worse Two nights ago I walked over on some property Just across the road To check on a fire And that we had

Burned a brush pile Intentionally started And I shined a pond And there was a coon Wading in the pond I go back and get Polly And I think I'm going to just put her

Right on this coon track can just see what happens. She did not, she didn't bark, she didn't trail, she just was like, she's like, look at that coon. She's like, huh. Yep, I smell it. But if that was a deer now. Oh, if it was a deer, she would have burned it up.

This is what we call a lemon. Oh, boy. Poor dog. All right, so, man, do we ever have an episode? If you're watching this, you might notice that, four of us in this room are wearing bear grease bibs and look really good so the day that this comes out is july 22nd and on july 23rd like if you're listening to this the day it comes out the bear grease bibs will be for sale on the meat eater dot com store meat eater the meat eater dot com

pretty sure it's the meat eater dot com slash bibs okay and uh these are the bear grease bibs that I have been working on for for for for over over six years have you got your drawing I drew the first sketch of this in uh there's an ad out ah I don't I don't have it the bib overall's ad that came out yesterday you can see the drawing on see the actual drawing that I drew that in 2019 before I even worked for a meat eater and submitted it to first light because I was I was wearing first light and working with first light and I said hey you need a utility and at the time I called it a utility back country bib

and if you read what we said it is basically this exact bib and they're they're really cool and they're going to be

for sale tomorrow I don't know how I miss that all of you were matching yeah until now yeah I completely miss that

when you said that I was like whoa Spitey senses are not working not working Larry Daryl and Daryl here the reason this is cool is that this is the first time

that First Light has collaborated with anything cool. With any, with any, with a brand. I mean like, bear grease being kind of a brand in and of itself. And for those of you just listening, it's got this really cool bear grease patch. And it also, you wouldn't know it unless you bought them,

but it also has a secret message on the inside. I don't think I realize that. It says, don't tell people. Oh, yeah, we can tell them. I was going to say, like, you have to buy on. I didn't know the message. I'll just say it has a secret message on the inside of the bibs. It's in Morse code.

Yeah. And you got to get the Steve Rinella decoder ring. Your. Uh-oh. Disaster impending. That would have been fabulous. They look good. Brant has a bib overall connoisseur.

What do you think? I like them. I do. I like them. I never thought they were going to come to fruition. They were teased a little bit. We're working on them. We're working on them.

Man, nothing. And then back it comes, and here we are all sitting in them. Like a bunch of... What it's got... What I wanted is a... So it has a chest pouch that is a water-resistant pouch. Oh, no. So you could put your phone in there, and if you fell in the river, your phone wouldn't get wet.

Suitable for small child. Or if you're like me and Brent, get really sweaty. You get really sweaty. Yeah, it's got big ventilation zippers on the side. I mean, the zipper, the side stuff is major. I mean, you can go way down. Now, Clay. It's pretty nice.

It's a little risque. Keep this rated family friendly. That's what bib overalls are good for, though, is ventilation. Got a big kangaroo zippers. Like, you can put stuff all in here. It's got one pocket here for whatever you want. That's a mule rodent pocket right there. Yeah, that's for getting stuff out when you're sitting.

And now this is what Brent Reeves didn't initially want, but is a zipper up the leg. I just wanted it to be able to get in and out. I was happy with the size. You didn't want a big zipper? They didn't want a big zipper because like I'll wear rubber boots and I'll put my breeches on the inside. And that, man, invariably would always get on my ankle. Yes. And I'm walking somewhere and it's like I got my foot in a steel trap.

But these are small. And as you know, we've been wearing them. the prototype before this for about a year now, and I've been wearing the fire out of them. And inside my rubber boots and no issues. Yeah. And they have a briar-proof chapped front on the legs. I would say that these are like a Carhart work overall would be,

I mean, these would be somewhere in between, like the duck cotton is stretched duck cotton and they're made for comfort and wearing but also durability. I mean, to me the perfect use case for this is small game hunting and wrestling. Straight up. Look. Hey, Blinken.

No holes barred. Here's how you can tell the materials. Do you hear that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're scratching it with your fingernails, yeah. Yep, that's good. Durable. That's good.

A. Blinken would have worn these when he was wrestling. Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. Man, I can't wait to talk about Grant. This episode is going to be good. But before we do that, oh, you might have noticed. Yeah, I was going to say, do you think most people will be wearing rattlesnake. Hey, Josh, get your, get your, we're going to brand. Okay.

Let me get a video. We're going to, so these are Tikova's invasive python. Oh. Boots come, come straight out of Florida. They're fancy. Wow. I said rattlesnake. I should have said Python.

Is that the belly? Yeah, I would say so. I think that is. And that on the side, ain't. Yeah, now that's. That's ribs. But what we're going to do today is we're going to, we're going to brand them. So, Decova sent us, let's brand them with this bear grease.

So we got a little bear grease brand an iron here. and we're going to set this here and we're going to brand them. Oh, exciting. Yeah. Wow. I might need to use that on one of my bows. Hey, why don't you film it before him, Bear? All right.

You ready? Where should I put it right there? That's what I think. Or on the leather right there. I like on the leather. I don't know. Probably out of start. Okay, Josh, you got a blowtorch?

We're going to do a meat eater brand on it. Yep. Okay. Okay. there we go Okay All right Bear tell us about your bow

All right I've got here A hop horn beam bow 50 pounds 28 inches Yeah so cool And this bow is on the meat eater Auction House of Audities

For like a couple more hours today Yeah I'm pretty sure If you hop on today It's still available The day that the podcast comes out Wednesday Right And yeah so I made this

bow and then I gave it to an artist in Tennessee named Savannah Gregory and she did all these carvings on there but all of that she did with little dentistry tools like little drummel tools they use for your teeth. Wow.

And so that's all part of the wood. She pulled that out of there. She didn't add anything on there but yeah we kind of animal tracks. Yeah we kind of decided to do the design a little more natural looking like We could have done like a pattern, animal track pattern going up the limb.

It's like a waterhole. Yeah, we kind of wanted to make it look like how a bear would walk or a turkey would walk. So, yeah, it's got some turkey tail feather and wing feathers up here. Critter tracks on there. Those wing feathers are legit, man. Yeah, they are. It really is cool. And then it also has a cool little quote on it.

I'm going to read that. Run that camera, run that video along that bow there. and this bow says keep the wild places wild right there on the riser nice okay so we got these python boots Josh I'm gonna let you okay put it like ram it which way's up and down on that there okay we're here I'd say so yeah oh we got it on there oh yeah look at that looks good nice job Joshi very good looks great incredible

oh that's money Josh media your logo I want my forehead let me brand your hat. Awesome. It looks cool. We'll do the, we'll do a bear grease one later. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice.

Thanks to Kovas for sending us these. That's pretty cool. Sweet brands. Yeah. I might use those on bow. Let's brand those nikes. Wow. Okay.

Well, now that we got that settled. Yeah, so Meteor Auctioneus of Audities, I've also got on there my bare high from the bear that I killed in Alaska I was wearing the wetsuit

Brint has a bow on there Matthew's bow with a dialed archery site Is that the bow that Clay gave you? It is. It is. Wow. Two for one. Wow. Great. And? I just, I mean, you know, it just

I just, I just noticed it was, that was the one that I gave you. You just noticed it was missing. I'm not, no, no, I'm glad you, I'm glad you put it up. I don't, I wasn't saying it like that. he was like, are you upset with me from the way of the bow that you gave me? We're going to have an altercation right? I gave that to a year's.

We've been to test out these rassling overalls. No, no, no. Just the way Brent looked at me, he thought maybe I was mad at it. I did not care. I just wondered why you was asking. Well, I mean, I just wondered if that was the bow that I gave you. It is.

Okay, cool. Great. Well, so that's that. Get Bell. Pure Fiber Internet with Crave, Netflix, and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on Internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything.

Well, let's hear, folks. The 2026 Meat Eater Auction House of Oddities is back and Open for Bids Now. This year's auction features eyebrow raising outdoor gear donated by the Meat Eater crew, employees, and friends of the brand, including Steve's dad's shitty old truck full of badass hunting gear, the Honda Outboard Motor from Doss Boat Season 3, Clay Newcomb's Alaskan Wet Suit Bear Hide, fly fishing memorabilia from the personal collection of Lefty Cray and more. The auction house kicks off July 8th and runs for two weeks

with 100% of proceeds going to our Land Access Initiative, which to date has helped fund new public land acquisitions, such as the recent 200-acre Tuckertown acquisition in North Carolina, the 328-acre Wildcat Bend acquisition in Montana, and the 215-acre Shiloh Pond Project in Maine. Visit themeatheater.com slash auction to place your bids now, get your hands on some meat eater history, and become a meaningful part of our next public land access campaign.

Well, man, Bear-Gree, Civil War, Summer continues. This is part five. we do have one more episode we're going to end up with six Civil War episodes I don't think that we can trust you with that number anymore yeah it's gotten a little out of hand yeah you know what I've been doing this long enough

that when they say hey stop I say no we're going to keep going because they've told me I've stopped before when I didn't want to stop who's they the day

just them what Clay's saying is he will show us how to beat the hair off a dead horse not anybody else that's right well the thing about the

thing about the civil war is that you know we said that we're dipping a bucket of water out of the ocean of the civil war and so this is episode five and this episode would have come as a surprise really to me

kind of just sprang up in my inbox didn't know that it was going to happen because coming into this, and I said it at the beginning of the episode, the person I was least interested in learning about, honestly, would have been Ulysses S. Grant. And it's kind of interesting thinking about that because I'm just telling you that's the way it was. If I would have seen Ulysses S. Grant, Robert E. Lee, Abraham Lincoln, Stonewall Jackson, Sherman,

even Sherman. William Tecumse's Sherman on a list and you were like, which one of these do you are you really not that interested in? I think it would have been Grant. I couldn't have told you why. It was just like lack of knowledge,

but maybe something more, maybe. Misty, what did you think of the Grant episode? Oh, I loved it. I loved it. And I think Grant has kind of a little bit taken over our home. Every time Clay and I get in the car, our Audible pops up with the narrator's book.

And so I kind of feel like Grant's like a brother to us this summer, the Civil War summer. But I thought the episode was great. You kind of pulled out a bunch of interesting things. It's so hard on something like this to condense his life down into one hour podcast. And so I thought what you chose were kind of the random pieces, not really the, like, nothing about his presidency, nothing about the end of the war,

just kind of this interesting, this is what made Grant and his wife and, you know, his childhood, his dad. Horsemanship. Yeah, I just thought it was great. And I thought that you had an incredible guest. I thought Louis did a great job. Yeah, Louis Gallo. But I thought it was a great episode and very interesting.

and kind of eccentric. Accentric. Well, I was just trying to just like build the history of Grant that maybe you wouldn't know like his childhood and stuff from his childhood that impacted him. And then what was most interesting was just how much he struggled. I mean, if there was ever a story of a guy that was kind of a failure rising to the top, it was it was him. Yeah. And, you know, and some of it was his own fault. I mean, you know, like a lot of it was with his drinking and stuff.

And there's, it's, it's hard to really get to the, to the bottom of his drinking because there's definitely a lot. When you listen to his, his, the audible book, it's 48 hours long. Yeah. The audible book on Grant is 48 hours. Really? That's what I mean when I say every time our car turns on. No order. For the next year.

I've been on a bulldozer again this week, listening to Grant. And what you learn is that he had lots of political adversaries, even inside the union, that were not wanting him to be president, that were not wanting him to get credit for certain battles. I mean, even inside the union, there were people like jockeying. for power. There's a lot of infighting. I mean, it was very, it was kind of like modern day,

I mean, it was what modern day politics are. Well, except even more so, because back then, politics were much more geared towards military figures. Like if you, you almost had to be in the military

to some degree to be a politician. That's not entirely true, but like that was the way that people got ahead in life was going to the military, go to West Point. And, and so,

there was a lot of that and so a lot of people wanted grant to not look that good and had he had a bad reputation coming into it because he had basically been forced out of the army in california for drinking and that's still that they don't no one quite just says yes that's exactly what happened was that was was it was i didn't interpret it that he was forced out it was more like oh man I took it from the stuff I was listening to. He was so melancholy about being so far away from his family and his child he hadn't seen. Yeah. Plus the drinking, which is obviously, you know, alcohol is a depressive.

So was he fired or did he just like... It's a little bit of all of it. Did they give him the option? Like, okay, pal, you want to quit or you want us to fire you? That is exactly the way it happened. That's the way I figured. And a lot of people felt like he could have fought it. Like all of, a lot of the people up there were like, ah, they, he wasn't, it wasn't that bad what he did.

He definitely could have fought this, but he was kind of like, I actually just want to go home. And he was very depressed. But a lot of the generals thought it was kind of unjust, that it wasn't what he didn't, didn't cross the line into, I can't remember the word they used. But he basically, throughout his career, his drinking oftentimes didn't really. roll into his ability to do his job. And so they, like, knew that he was drinking. They knew that this was a little bit dangerous for someone in power to drink like this,

but he would show up for work and just be ready to roll. And so that's why they were always, like, really uncomfortable with that. I believe we call that a functional alcohol. A high functioning alcoholic. He did abstain for very long periods of time. He was very specific when he would engage in it. And so, like, the record show, it would be after war. So he kind of, it was well-timed alcoholism.

Well, and then they would send people, and this wasn't in my episode, but Lincoln actually sent a guy during the Civil War to spend an extended period of time with Grant and his armies. And he had a job to do to, like, report back on the supplies and how the troops were doing. but really they were like, hey, go down there and make sure that Grant is not... He ain't pulling the cork too much. Yeah, exactly. And so this guy was with Grant's army for a long period of time, and he writes a very stunning, very, very, you know, good look at Grant.

That guy right there's the linchpin to the whole thing. Yes, but Grant also knows what this guy's doing. Oh, he does. I mean, Grant, this is where I feel like Grant did have a high level of character, or he just had a lot of moxie as he, he knew that this guy was here to look at him and he was on his best behavior like the whole time. So the guy writes back to Lincoln and says, there's not a other man in this union that's as clear-minded, sober, and as good as Ulysses S. Grant. and so he was known for turning his wine glass upside down at dinners like he didn't want I mean he didn't take he you're self-aware yeah very self-aware very self-aware and very I mean it was very predictable when he was going to get drunk he also had debilitating migraine headaches

and so people would write back and there's all this written correspondence in civil war that we can track now and people would say Grant is in his tent and is unable to speak or something and it was always like was he drunk or is he having a migraine headache like you know there there's a little bit

of that but without a doubt they would they would prescribe alcohol to treat the migraine headache that's right and so there I mean it's just kind of it's very messy it's very muddle so at the battle Dr. Jack Daniel's right

Yeah. Yeah. And this is where it's convoluted. At the Battle of Shiloh, which was one of the bloodiest battles, especially up until that point, it was like the Battle of the Civil War. There were reports that went back to Lincoln that Grant was drunk during the Battle of Shiloh. And Grant, they sent somebody down to do a report, and Grant never lied about his drinking outright, or at least that's the way it portrayed. Maybe he did, but in the, in the records,

he would always kind of be like, yeah, that was bad. I'm sorry. And he basically says to the guy, he says, am I, do you think I'm drunk right now? And the guy goes, no. And he goes, well, I was just as drunk then as I am. I was just as drunk then at Shiloh as I am now. He said, I hadn't had to drink a liquor in like an extended period of time. So some of it was hype. And then a lot of it came later when he became president. And we know that presidents are just in the crosshairs for everybody. Sure. Like if you're a president, even if you're a well-liked president, even Lincoln.

I mean, Lincoln was today known as one of the greatest presidents, if not the greatest president, they say, just in his ability to lead and things he did. And he, you know, people hated him. So they're always trying to tear people down. So again, we don't have the full story, but it's true that... Let me zip that up. It's true that he had a drink of problem. But this whole thing about the lost cause is interesting. And that's what Louis and Brooks Blevins told me, independent of each other,

that the lost cause really targeted Ulysses S. Grant. I mean, we don't really have all the information, but I mean, as it was portrayed on the podcast, did that seem legitimate that the lost cause was tearing him down? Yeah. I mean, I didn't think you go, you went into as much as you could have been, I kind of portrayed it as is the reason I don't know anything about Grant

and don't really am not, don't think that highly of him because of the loss cause. Yeah, I think that, yeah, that was clear. And I don't know. I honestly don't know if that's true. Do you think that's true, Brent? Man, I don't know. I mean, growing up in the 70s, $50 bill was unlucky.

Really? I was told that. A $50 bill was unlucky. Oh, and Grant is on a $50 bill. Grant was on the $50 bill. Really? I don't know if it was tied to that. Wow.

I wish I would have known that. I'd totally put that on the episode. Yeah. I was, $50 bill was unlucky you didn't. Of course, I didn't see many. Somebody else was told them.

And if they had plenty, I mean, if they had a $50 bill, obviously they were very lucky. You know, honestly, now thinking about it, I can't remember the last time

I saw $50 bill. Yeah, that was the, yeah, they make them. But that was, I can't remember hearing that. I don't,

you know, it was just a common, it's a common thing. That, that's unlucky. Like a four-leaf clover, is lucky a $50 bill was unlucky. Now, whether that's because Grant's faces on it, I don't know.

But I recall that. And I thought about that driving up here today listening to it. That's good intel. So was it from that? I don't know. Yeah. Plausibly. We're going to do potentially a little bit more on this idea of the lost cause.

because it's a pretty real thing that plays out in reconstruction in a major way. But I think it's interesting. The loss cause, you know, working in education, things come along sometimes, and people are always really paranoid about who decides what gets taught in school. And that's always been kind of interesting to me. It feels like there's certain things we could just all agree on all the kids need to know. and and I didn't realize that that's kind of simple thinking you know and when I first got into education it was in 2008 and there were a bunch of major I mean just highly divisive arguments about

some some major curriculum changes that were happening in the in the U.S. And I don't even want to say it because it was just so polarizing and and but it's kind of interesting because I remember at the time thinking well, I bet we could come up with some things that we just all agree on that kids need to be taught. And then you read about this lost cause and you read about the work that people went into making sure certain things were taught certain ways. And you realize, no, there's probably really a lot that we can't agree on. There's a whole lot that you just can't agree on. And the strategy involved in painting certain aspects of the Civil War a certain way.

and the effectiveness of that to the point that you're surprised that this guy's a good guy. Yeah. It's kind of interesting. It's super interesting. Yeah. And he's a complicated figure,

but I'm not sure that he's more complicated than some of the other, some of the other people that we... I mean, like, I don't think you played this part, but I was in the interview when they were talking about George Washington and his slaves, you know,

and George Washington freed his slaves on his death, But while he was still alive, one escaped to Pennsylvania, I believe. And he tried to find him and get him brought back. That's George Washington. And have that guy brought back to him. And I don't think those are things that people think about when they think about with George Washington.

We think about them as this really great person. So I'm not sure that Grant was less complicated or more complicated than some of those people. Yeah, what about Grant owning the slave? Was it, again, we, you know, there's so much intel that we're trying to pack in here, but his wife came from this Missouri family that owned a bunch of slaves, as many as 20 or so. And she carried with her into the marriage, multiple slaves. And then Grant's father gave actual, gave Grant a slave that he kept in as his property for like a year.

And then finally he was like, no, I'm going to officially emancipate this guy. And then, but by the end of the war, like things had shifted so much, you know, it became like this is the reason for the war is to stop this. It's just interesting. Any thoughts on it? Man, I thought this episode was really, really interesting. I think this might be my favorite one that we've done on the Civil War yet. And I think that it's interesting to look at a guy like Grant, who, you know, I have great appreciation for a guy like that who doesn't have that sense of, not ambition isn't the right word, but self-promotion. Really, he's there to do what's required of him and do it well.

I think that's an honorable trait and yeah he had his own things that that he had to deal with but when I look at a guy who

who you know marries into this family he's given a slave and after a year he realizes hey I don't want to do this and the fact that he wasn't like he didn't feel that

pressure to keep the slave and he did what he felt was right. I think that's honorable. You know what I mean? I don't... He didn't succumb to the pressure. No, he didn't. And especially...

At a time in his life when it really would have... He would have benefited him. Yeah, he needed it. Yeah, he needed it. His own father-in-law said, if you bring your army to my land, I'm going to shoot you. You know what I mean?

Like a rabbit. Like a rabbit. I mean, that's talk about drawing some lines with your family, you know? But he was willing to do it because of what his personal conviction. were. I think that's an honorable position. I didn't know much about Grant. You know, he kind of just, he kind of just, you know, blow by him in the history books a lot of times. And, you know,

I knew he was president, but just seeing the things that would have made him a popular candidate to lead the country, you realize, oh, this guy had some good stuff about him. And so I thought it was really, I thought it was really, really interesting, just learning about him. I had great appreciation that, you know, he loved his wife. I mean, he was, he was really smitten with her. And it wasn't, I mean, cross-out. There had, there had, there had, there had to have been something about her that he was drawn to, you know what I mean? And, uh, and the fact that he was so faithful to her and, and, uh, you know, they must have, I, I can't imagine what some of the, the, the, uh, conversations would have been like in their house with different, you know,

differing opinions on things, but he really valued her presence. You know what I mean? there's stories of him bringing her on the battlefield because he felt like he was better when she was there. You know, pretty interesting stuff. It's super interesting the thing with him and his wife because in some ways when you're reading these books or when even I felt like when Louie talked about her, it was like they have a great relationship. This woman's a little bit crazy.

I mean, that's kind of the way, that's what you feel. And when I'm listening to it, they kind of, I don't know, the narrator feels a little bit demeaning to her in this in this book about grant and yet says things like the army the the company loved it when she was there that she would come out and talk with them spend a lot of time with the she brought out the absolute best in grant she um you know his he she kind of pushed him to to greatness um wasn't it interesting how she she had the dream yeah in the 1850s when he is like kind of a loser mm-hmm i mean like had to drop out of the army basically because of his alcoholism.

He's like selling firewood. His father-in-law and his father both just think, man, this guy, I wish he could just get his act together. And she has a dream. To me, it's always interesting in just historically how this stuff comes up. The dream is relayed to history by one of the slave women that Julia told the story to. I just think that's interesting.

Because she was interviewed later. You know, she lived a long life and was owned by the grants. And so she was interviewed. And she was like, I remember when Julia had a dream that Ulysses was going to be president. And she just always saw this greatness in it. And nobody else saw. Julia was pretty attracted to old U.S. Grant as well. I mean, she was pretty impressed with his horsemanship and his graceful form.

We keep talking about this audio book. We listen to it. Look up who the author was. Ron Chernell. Ron Chernow. Yeah, yeah. Julie at one point said, what does she? There was a quote of her that she enjoyed his graceful form in the saddle.

Oh, that's like pulling up in the T-bird. It's a sonic. Hey, when we're driving down the road, listen to that. And it said, she commented on his graceful form in the saddle. I paused it. And I said, Misty, this is what a man wants to hear. I was a sweet. Graceful form in the mule saddle.

No, no. Graceful form and the bear grease overalls on the saddle. I was literally sleeping. We were coming back from. A mule saddle sits you a little different on the animal, too. All right. So we were coming back from the presidential museum. And I wake up to these two cackling.

He made me replay it. He's like, go back two minutes. Go back. This is the way a woman on a talk to her. Listen to the way she's doting on him. Don't you see that this is what made him great? And then I immediately went home and got on a bulldozer. Yeah, same thing.

I mean, similar. Yes. Grace will form in the dozer. Get Bell, Pure Fiber Internet with Crave, Netflix, and Disney Plus. From $94 a month, price guaranteed for two years on Internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.com for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. Well, it's here, folks.

The 2026 Meat Eater Auction House of Oddities is back and open for bids now. This year's auction features eyebrow-raising outdoor gear donated by the Meat Eater crew, employees and friends of the brand, including Steve's dad's shitty old truck, full of badass hunting gear, the Honda Outboard Motor from Doss Boat Season 3, Clay Newcomb's Alaskan Wetsuit Bearhide, fly fishing memorabilia from the personal collection of Lefty Cray and more. The auction house kicks off July 8th and runs for two weeks with 100% of proceeds going to our land access initiative, which to date has helped fund new public land acquisitions such as the recent 200-acre Tuckertown acquisition in North Carolina,

the 328-acre Wildcat Bend acquisition in Montana, and the 215-acre Shilohan Project in Maine. Visit themeatheater.com slash auction to place your bids now, get your hands on some meat. mediator history and become a meaningful part of our next public land access campaign. I thought it was super interesting, their relationship. Yeah, I think their relationship is interesting, and I think the way she's portrayed is kind of interesting. Like, I think she was a little bit like her own memoirs. She didn't hurt, help herself there, you know, the way she portrayed slavery and the way, like,

just, you could tell she kind of has, she's a rose-colored glasses type of, she sees In the 1890s in her memoir, Brent, this is the one little data point that's hard to get around. And it's hard to judge somebody based upon one thing. But basically she said this little enslaved girl that grew up with her and they were just best of friends. According to her. When the Emancipation Proclamation came, the girl left. And she couldn't understand why the girl left. We said, well, we said that on the episode, didn't it?

Well, she, in 1890, she said that. It wasn't like in 1866. Right. Like 30 years later, she's like, I don't understand why she left. I mean, it just shows you a lack of awareness. Just a little bit of lack of awareness, or maybe a lot of lack of awareness. Yeah, it's kind of hard to get around that. And then, so I think that's part of why people perceive her the way they do.

but and and because there's no doubt about it in these biographies she is not treated with the same respect that grant is yeah it only took him a year to realize he was doing something wrong yeah yeah yeah um I like the horsemanship stuff yeah it's it's it's it to me that was cool that he was such a good horseman the best story of his horsemanship there's there's it's peppered all through the grant world is how good he was on a horse. The one time that it really stood out was he was on his horse and there was a battle and they were getting away on a river boat.

And all the men, he was the last one on the boat, which says something. But all the men had got on the boat and they're like getting shot at, like bullets are flying over their head. And he's on his horse and there's a single plank going on. onto this boat and he takes his thoroughbred horse and walks it across a single plank and the implication was it was you know it says a lot about the horse yeah yeah and grant knew it too and grant grant was good at picking them he so he takes the horse across this single plank and jumps it into the boat and you know all the guys are watching and they're like wow what a horseman and i can

tell you that you can when grant says it's the horse would have seen that yeah who knows what she would said about that. Couldn't get slow trapped to do that. Buddy, you would have been a Confederate P-O-W. You would have been a P-O-W in the Confederate camp. And there's another story about him in the Mexican-American War where they needed to get something really close to the lines. And he rides his horse and he basically comes off the saddle and turns his body sideways and uses the poor horse as a shield. and he gets really close to enemy fire

and he gets through and he gets his message across. But yeah, I think he was really an impressive horseman. And I thought the story, you know, there's parts of that story about him negotiating for the horsework. I told that, didn't I? Yeah, you told that. But I just think it's, he actually, when he was a general in the army,

he was like embarrassed about it still. He brought it up as a general in the army and was like, well, like, we're not, we're not projecting that on him. When he went into some room, he was like, well, but there was that one time that I, I had, when I, he was like 11 years old and he didn't negotiate for the, for the horse, he told the guy, it was such a point of humiliation. You could tell, you know, his whole life, he's someone that's kind of plagued by these failures and this embarrassment.

And he's got this overpowering dad who's just a lot to handle and a lot to grow up with. and he can't ever meet those expectations, and then he just fails and fails and fails. And if you look at, if you look at kind of the journey of his life, you see that it's actually serendipitous that all those failings happened. He wouldn't have gotten to where he was,

and we wouldn't have the outcome, I don't think, if you didn't have a Ulysses as Scrant. The other generals were just so leery of, so leery of their own ambition and their own... They were stifled by their fear of messing up. I think that's probably the biggest thing that I learned from Grant is that all these other generals that had political ambitions, that had just ambitions to just be great and all of a

sudden they're leading these big armies during this time when this is the way you became great. This is my one shot. And they were crippled by fear. Grant comes in there selling firewood on the streets of Galena. Right. Like he's there to try to just like, he just wants to make a living. at one time he says they ask him about his political ambition and he says you know i'd like to be the mayor of galena for at least the long enough time to fix the sidewalk to my house like that was his that was his political ambition and he gets in there and he's like i don't care what people think of me in the future we just have to win now if the mayor you get voted mayor and you fix the road coming to your house you get you get arrested exactly

now feces them off yeah yeah yeah And I think that's so huge. Yeah. I mean, fear of failure just brings down your ability to produce so much. And if you've got nothing to lose. And I think he had failed. I mean, he was at the bottom for a decade. You know, he had, he, it's hard to fear, fear something you've already gone through an experience.

It's like playing that prevent defense and your head at the end of the game. You're playing that prevent defense. it usually prevents you from winning the ball game. That's what those cats were doing. Play it safe. Play it safe. Yeah. Yeah, they were playing it safe and they couldn't win.

And that's part of why he got a reputation for being, like they called him the butcher, you know, because he was so aggressive that a lot of people perceived that needless lives were lost. Well, and there's just so many different little things coming into this. This was during a time when chivalry was still a big part of war. So, like, if you had your enemy pinned up against the wall, you might be like, okay, let's come to terms of agreement before I send in the bayonets to, like, kill every one of you. And that he just saw that there was no way forward with that kind of action. And so, yeah, that's where a lot of people were like, this guy is a maniac.

But I feel like that's not consistent. Like, I don't feel like you could validate that based on his time in the Mexican-American war when he talked about it being an unjust war. You know what I mean? His involvement in that was almost, you could tell he regretted it because he said it was so unjust. So I think his motivations during the Civil War were like, we have to get the union back together. And this is what I see is necessary to get the union back together. Right. Yeah.

And that became his like pathway to peace was like we have to have to destroy the South. Right. You know. And I mean, he probably wasn't wrong, you know. But there were other options. That's what when you really get into this, you realize that there could have been. been like some compromise. I mean, that would have been a possible version of the story was that there's some compromise.

And they're like, well, you know, you can keep slaves in this section or maybe you keep them from 20 years and then they've got to be, it's totally gone. I mean, there's a lot of different versions, but finally, Lincoln and all these guys were like, no, we got to, we got to crush this now. all the, you know, ending slavery becomes the focal point of the war, which we learned the last episode, keeps out European countries from coming in. Just so much wild stuff.

Yeah. I was going to say, though, Grant, his failure really helped him to be empathetic towards people that he would beat, even though he was not the guy you wanted to be in a battle against, because he was going to do what. whatever it took. He was the guy you kind of wanted to surrender to. Yeah.

I mean, in a way, he was quite generous and empathetic with people over and over. Like when they would surrender, he would be like, keep your sidearms, keep your horses.

Yeah, but required total surrender. That's true. I mean, like there's a lot of stories about him negotiating and people being shocked that he wouldn't be more

like compromising in the, and he would just say, no, no, gonna, there's, there's no terms except for total surrender. So generous, but he was, he was the one, I think that the thing about Grant is that he was the, his strategy worked and his strategy was, you know, choke him at every single point. Chokel, you know, and so he commissioned Sheridan and he commissioned Sherman.

Those two were fighting at different, different locations. And up until that point, it was almost like there were multiple wars going on, but he was the one that brought everything into synchrony so that you could. could really choke off the, I mean, that, and that's what worked, is that every, they fought all the battles at the same time on the front and, and cut the supply line to the Confederacy and also, you know, held, held Lee where he was, you know, held him on the defensive. And that, that ultimately won the war. So he was, yes, generous once you surrendered, but accepted nothing less than total surrender. That's true. Well, I don't know how we could,

have this episode without talking about the Dukes of Hazard. I brought them up. Pivotal part of my childhood. Pivotal part of the podcast when Clay sang the entire theme song. I thought... Did I really do that? You sing a bunch of it, not the entire theme song. Just a good old boys.

Yeah, we got that. We heard that. Never mean enough. I never really thought about it from the perspective of the lost cause. But the Duke's of Hazard, kind of it's like the story just a good old boys never meaning no harm beats all you ever saw been in trouble with the law since the day they were born remember driving country roads with you and the s10 pickup not circa 19 circuit 2000 listen to that song I mean they're driving a

1969 orange Dodge charger called the general lee with a rebel flag on the top of it Yep. And when Bear Newcomb was born, we lived in a house right across from the local school district. And some teenager had that exact same, had made a replica. Had it a generally. Had it generally. That also when you honk the horn, it would play Dixie. That's your lifetime, buddy, boy. Yeah.

Oh, I've seen one in the last like seven years. Yeah. Well, that's a whole other story and a whole other podcast. Like the General Lee and the Duke's Hazard and all that, like never... Did you have one, Josh? Oh, yeah. My brother's had one, that's a T-shirt. Yeah, Steve Ronella had him.

I had a T-shirt. In Michigan. Now, how old were you during Duke's Hazard days? That's probably your prime. 79? Is that what it was? Yeah. You'd have been...

13. Oh, you were the prime target. You were the demographic. I think he came on Friday. I can't remember. But, oh yeah, I love this show. You probably watched every episode. I love that show, but I liked Waylon Jennings long before I ever liked the Dukes of Hastern.

Yeah, well, I got you. Yeah, it was a cool show. I liked it. Yeah. Well. Yeah, and it's complicated now because. If people make it complicated, you can make anything complicated. Yeah.

I didn't see any hatred for anybody on that show. Right. Except crooked, crooked police. Boss Hogg. Nobody liked him. And Roscoe. Well, even Roscoe had a few redeeming. He had a good heart.

Yeah. He had some endearing, endearing qualities. Endering qualities, yeah. Boss Hog, though, he was bad. If you could gauge American entertainment, there would not be another show that had the cool factor though if I'm as the Dukes of Hazard period for a Southern boy I'm just telling I'm just telling the way I see it I'm not trying to just the way I see it I mean it was in

and it was also during the time when there weren't many options you know what I remember watching the Dukes of Hazard but I don't remember my parents watching the Dukes of Hazard I don't think anybody was remembers their parents watching it. I remember my parents watching like Beverly Hillbillies and Andy Griffith. So, I mean, they watched TV. It was, yeah, I'm just trying to think of my mom. My mom wouldn't have watched that.

She wouldn't have liked it. And I don't, maybe it was the type of television show it was. My mom was a little more into Magnum PI. Yeah. For obvious reasons. It was a Ferrari. Yeah. Ferrari and the hairy-chested mustache-ed mane.

I wasn't going there. Yeah. But yeah, it was definitely targeted toward that 13 age demographic, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm not endorsing the show completely. I mean, I'm not endorsing the show. I'm not saying it was good or bad.

I don't go back and watch reruns. I don't, like, it didn't come up until like this. So it's not like, you understand what I'm saying. Yeah. Just saying at the time, the show was compelling. Yeah. but yeah I mean and you know yeah there are parts of the show that

they were single-handedly responsible for like that model charger disappeared from the planet yes everybody wanted to for real no I mean they were they crashed them all yeah yeah they were like three or 400 of them they went through

are you serious yes because every time they would jump one it was done done so and they jumped them every week Every week. Every week. Yeah. Come up on two wheels and go around the corner. I like it when the tires would squeal on gravel.

Yeah, exactly. Come on. That was as dumb as me getting a skateboard for my 12th birthday. Living on a dirt road. Yeah. You had a skateboard. I rode it from here to the door on the carport. It was all the concrete we had.

Yeah. So I was Tony Hawk for like 10. feet eight feet maybe people don't realize how impractical dirt roads really are for for leisure you know difficult to ride a bicycle on a dirt road oh man I loved it because you could lock up them brakes and yeah I'm not sure if that's and if you live on a dirt road you also have to take the trash out like half a mile it's true I remember telling someone we were talking about all your own trash somewhere we were talking at work about like something about the trash I was like well yeah it's kind of a big

deal around our house because if you leave it on the porch raccoons get in it and if you you know that means that whenever that like it's the worst possible chore to give one of our kids because I was 18 we had to drive our trash into town we had a burning barrel yeah burned our trash and then when that what wouldn't burn got that that 55 gallon barrel filled up do it in the old creek down there started over yeah in the creek those were the good old days It was a gully like behind the drain. But it's eventually going to the water table. He should edit this out.

Why? It's true truth. That's what happened back in the day. That's what everybody was doing. Yeah. Well, we better wrap this up and get to a watermelon sale. Which is by the time this comes out, we'll have already happened. We'll be rich.

Hey, today is, this is the day that we're going to sell those watermelons that you've heard so much about. and, well, maybe you haven't, but we're selling watermelons, and this is part of my lifelong dream fulfilled. It's huge for Clay. I mean, like, this is probably bigger than, if Clay were given an opportunity to perform on the stage of the Grand Ole Opry or sell watermelons on the side of the road,

I think it would be a toss-up for him. Well, I mean, I have played with Evan Felker, the Turnpike Tributors. We had heard today. Boy. I was walking around Nashville this week. Oh, sweet Jesus. No.

And I was seeing these guys playing at like 10 a.m. And these little cafes. Laughing at them on you. And I went up and just tapped when I'm on the boot. When I walked by, he's up on the stage. And I'd be like, hey, man, I was with Evan Felker. I played little music with him. Is he really?

Winked. He actually, Evan actually opened for us. That's true. If you think about it. I remind him without a case. Uh, well, yeah, watermelons will be high on that list. Yeah. And these are good watermelons from Brent's buddy and Cabot, Laird.

Yeah, Laird high. Golly, he's got an incredible thing going down there. Man, it is so good. He's such a good person, too. He's just a great guy, great family, his son, and I know them all. And they're just good, hardworking folks, man. And they are, in watermelons. It's called the Cabot Patch.

A Cabot Patch. It's on Highway 89. name in Cabot Arkansas. Cabot, Arkansas. And they sell peaches and watermelons and Blackberry. Yeah, you can find him on, he's got a Facebook page. The Cabot Patch. And he grows almost all of it.

Yeah, he grows all of it himself. Pretty incredible. On his grandmother's land. Yeah. Very cool. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, the watermelons, I mean, I said it and I'm in it.

Canalopes too. I know how you like canelopes. Mm-hmm. Son. The watermelon I had yesterday that, sweet gym It was good Like a black diamond

It's like a black diamond Dark watermelon It was as good a melon as I've ever had It was just right Now we are at probably the peak of the season But yeah we're going to be selling them today Here in West Fork Yep

We got we got Go back in time Probably a load of watermelons So all right Thank you got Brent Thanks for coming up Missy Thanks for being the Tocobas hot seat

Always good to be here Fair Good to see you Yep Nice Nice. Coveralls. Thank you.

Overalls. Thank you. Keep the wild place as wild. That's where the various live. That's right. Did you hear Phelps has teamed up with a bunch of other high-end brands to do the Ultimate Elk giveaway? Anyone who is 18 or older can sign up to win an amazing gear package that includes a new rifle or bow along with great supporting gear. The winner will pick their rifle package or archery package for every time.

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