Bear Grease - Ep. 53: Bear Grease [Render] - Waylon Wins, Flipping Four-wheelers, and Outlaw Debrief

Episode Date: May 11, 2022

Clay, Misty, Josh Brent, and Gary talk about Waylon's second competition coonhunt win. Gary recounts some four-wheeler wrecks, and the crew gives their thoughts on the latest Bear Grease Podcast, Genuine Outlaws. The crew has mixed feelings about the Edwards brothers's story, and the conversation goes deep as they discuss breaking game laws.  Connect with Clay and MeatEater Clay on Instagram MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and Youtube Shop Bear Grease MerchSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. First Lights fieldware collection is made for the work that happens long before opening day and continues when the season ends. Products built for early mornings, full days and real use. Hard wearing where they need to be versatile where it matters. No shortcuts. Just gear designed for the work that earns the season.

Built to perform, built to last. Check out. First Light's new field. Worldware Gear at firstlight.com. My name is Clay Newcomb, and this is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called the Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual Bear Grease podcast. Presented by FHF Gear, American Made, Purpose Built, Hunting and Fishing Gear that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. Remember that in Deliverance when that guy come around the corner?

When he said, who's picking a banter here? No. You don't know that? Tell me the whole story. Have you ever seen the movie in my life? I have not seen Deliverance either. I was not allowed to watch it. There's some notorious scenes in that movie that.

I don't want to hear about it. Yeah. Did you ever see that movie, Dad? Oh, yeah. When did that come out? Bert Reynolds was probably 1980s, late 70s, wasn't it? I think it'd probably, yeah, 70, 71. It was early 70s.

Early, okay. Yeah, I would say it was pretty early. I don't know, I can't tell you. 1972. Yeah, this is an interesting topic of conversation we're going to have today. Yeah, it is. Yeah, listen, I want, so what we do on the Bear Greas render, if you're not familiar, if you've just, this is your first podcast. We have, or two styles of podcasts under the Bear Grease banner.

So we have our, what we just call straight up Bear Grease, which is our documentary style podcast, which is going to be multiple interviews telling a story, doctored up. music, soundscapes, really polished and produced. That's that. Then we have the Bear Grish Rinder, which is a group of us, there are five of us here right now, that are going to talk about the previous week's podcast, dissect it, talk about high points, low points,

and so that's what we're doing. So that's what this is. I want to start off with you. Did you know that before Brent got here, or when he got here, we kind of started talking a little bit, and he said, you know, Clay, I kind of, da-da-da-da-da, about the

podcast and I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I said, save that energy for the render. I'm a whirlwind of emotion right now. Really? I have to listen to the podcast. Oh, yeah. Good. So what I want to say is I want you to be absolutely free to say whatever you think.

Nobody's going to judge me? No. This is a safe place. Okay, good. Nobody else is listening, right? Judgment free zone. No, I don't think so. Okay, good.

But, no. It's not like the other podcast where we were really limited. Right. That was really healthy. Listen. This is what happens inside of social structures. Okay, so this is a social structure. You guys obviously are my friends.

One of you is my wife. One of you is my father. Prince's not related to me. John she doesn't either. But you kind of build a bias of positivity towards something. Or you want to spin something so it doesn't hurt somebody's feelings. Do you see, you guys can't fully be trusted? So you're anticipating that people are going to be too nice, that they're not going to actually like this podcast.

If they were inclined, if they were so inclined to be like, man, Clay, I really think you missed it on this one. Like, I would want you to say that. And just tell me why. I mean, that does me no good to have friends that don't tell me the truth. Now, all the other people that are listening that really aren't my friends, I don't want to hear it. But the wounds of a friend can be trusted, right? That was a joke. I want to hear what people think.

And I could say things right now. I think that would guide what you're going to say in 10 minutes from now. I doubt it. What do you mean? Like leading us? I just, it happens all the time. People just, they are led into a tone of the way things should be. I can't be manipulated.

I'm beyond it. Good. Not today, Perry, Ms. Dad, can you be made? I can be led like a little sheep. He's got a believer. You know what? Do you notice that Gary Newcomb is sporting his.

His regular goatee, but his mustache is missing. Yeah. Yeah. Should he be wearing one of the mustaches? Yeah, yeah. We've got a package of mustache. There's even some gray ones in there. So today on the render, we have Brent Reeves.

Maybe you look as sharp, Brent. You got, I would say you have on a moderately worn pair of overalls. Are those stone washed? Stone washed. Acid washed overalls. They are. I noticed that you're running your crocs in air condition mode. Yep.

No socks. Correct. And you have a beautiful bear grease hat on. You actually look really good. I mean, it looks good. After that introduction, I can hardly wait to hear what I've got to say. Hey, let me say, I think that Brent might have the shine of a winner. Oh, is that what it is?

I think so. Well, since you brought that up. Yeah. Tell us, what did you win? Well, I tell you what, I took old Whalen to a Coon hunt over in East Arkansas at Crocets Bluff. And we went out on his second UKC hunt, and by gosh, we won it, won a cast. He did good. Did good.

Way to go way, Lowe. And I got pictures from Alexis. Oh, my gosh, stars. After the win. So what Brent did is he went to a competition coon hunt, which described the mood, the scene, the vibe. Man, it was a community center over in Crockett's Bluff. It's a real old community, and there's no township or anything there. It's just a community, a community of people.

There's nothing as far as a city or anything like that. But everybody got there and you registered at a UKC event. You have to be there by a certain time. you know, pay your entry. You've got to be a member. Your dog's got to be registered. And I drew out with another guy hunting a walker dog and one guy hunting a blue tick

and one guy hunting a black and tan. And great guys, great fellowship. Sportsmanship was good. I didn't find my coon. One of the guys I was competing against found it. And said, there's your coon right there. You know, he didn't have to say anything. He could have just kept his mouth shut.

And that tree would have been, according to the rules, would have been a circle tree. Yeah. Honesty and integrity prevailed. It was good. That's good. It was really good. It was an enjoyable hunt.

So Wayland won his second cast win. Did he win the whole hunt or just the cast? No, just that cast. There was not an overall winner. We had an early round, which started around 9 o'clock, and then the late round started at midnight. So it was a long night. Yeah.

But we had a great time. Good. Way to go. I went hunting one time this week. and took fern and my new pup hoot and they traded one time, didn't see the coon. I'm not fully convinced it was there, but we're going to try to do a little springtime hunting this year. Oh, good. Yeah.

It's fixing to get really good. You think so? The little ones to start when they come down. Brent saw a deer. He sent me a video, dad, of the deer completely submerged under the water except for its neck and head. Yeah. I saw that. Did you say it?

Yeah. It was on social media too, yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. A doe. Wasn't it? A doe.

You think she was, do you think she got scared here in Whalen tree that close to her and just bedded down the water? It was Michael's dog actually. He was right there beside her. And no, hunts. That deer was there 10 minutes before the dog came in there. We just happened to be standing there. There's a bunch of deer. Water's up over there where we hunt.

Where Michael caught that coon. Yeah. And we watched him. That's eight feet underwater right now. No way. Holy cow. Inside that levee. They were up where we were at.

Holy smokes. So. I've watched our friend Michael Roseman catch two coons by hand. Yeah. I leave all that. I was chasing down and catch them by hand. You were there on the last one. Carry on.

Yeah, we saw the deer. We actually, Michael shined a light up in there. And he said, what's that? And I said, out of coon. He said, no, it's a deer. Look at it. And you could see. I mean, it was like a periscope death.

Just right it from the neck up sticking up out of the water. You barely see her hind in. but she was bedded right there. Wow. There was no mosquitoes. Buffalo gnats weren't bad. It was cool. So, I mean, I don't know.

I haven't decided if I feel like she was hiding because she saw you guys and just hunkered down the water or if she, you think she was actually bedded down. Man, I have, you've come. You've walked up on deer before. Dogs tree close to them. Yeah. They just, they don't do nothing. They just lay there. Yeah.

So I just, I have, it's hard for me to believe that she wouldn't have walked off that she would have just hunker down in that water if she hadn't already been there. Yeah. Yeah. Weird though. It was pretty cool. Well, I was just getting the introductions. Misty Newcomb.

Hey. Good to have you. Yeah. You haven't done anything like wildly wild in the outdoors recently, have you? Well, I mean, I got my garden going. Yeah. It's pretty wild. Oh, Misty was on the Meteor Live show in Billings, Montana last week.

Yep. That was a big deal. A lot of fun. Yeah. A lot of fun. I saw that on Instagram. That was intriguing. I'd like to have seen more.

Unfortunately, that show won't be broadcast on the meat eater podcast feed. There's just a live show. That's why you've got to go, man. Hey, there were at least 1,100 people there as I understood it. 1100? Oh, yeah. Wow. Maybe more.

And everybody that came got one of Steve Ronella's books. Raising outdoor kids in an indoor world. Indoor world. Yeah. And so the podcast was structured around raising kids and the outdoors to be engaged inside of the outdoors. So it's pretty cool. And that's probably why they had Misty on there and me. We have kids.

And so it was fun. Incredible credentials. We have kids. We have kids. You're bona fide. Steve was quick to say it wasn't a podcast. Yeah. Yeah.

that's right it was a live show yeah yeah it's a lot of fun um chester floyd played music at the beginning and end seth fleshed coon while you guys were the whole time right behind us i saw some pictures that i'm like just standing there's some ambiance for you if you got bored listening to us you could just watch set for me oh this is some so after the after the event there was people that were in this uh auditorium that work there and they come in after the show and clean the seats and stuff. And there was an older lady that came up and she said, she said not to me, but to one of our guys.

She said, what was that woman doing with those coon hides? I thought she said what was that woman doing with all that meat. Well, yeah, yeah, that's what she said. But she thought Seth was a lady because Seth had this big, not really, but he had this big apron on. It looked like a dress from a long ways away. You just walked in and you just saw it on. He was wearing a dress.

Yeah. So anyway, we thought that was, we thought that was funny. He'll never live with that. Josh, you've been fly fishing? A little bit. It's been really, really wet here. Yeah. It has been raining like crazy inches every day.

My strawberries. And so I tried to do a little creek fishing yesterday, but came up empty handed. But we went a couple weeks ago to the White River. Christy caught a 21-inch brown trail. Oh, I saw a picture of that one. Wow. And you caught me some rainbow trout. Yeah, caught Misty some rainbow trout, brought him home.

So Clay and Misty grilled them. Dad, you've been doing anything? Outdoors? Well, fun. You know, we took a little four-wheeler trip up in northwest Arkansas. That's right. I put the old K&M on a hill they call Highway to Heaven. Yeah.

It did pretty good. Was it straight up? Yeah, pretty much. We used to actually. See anybody you knew up there? This was in Pope. County, actually he was in Polk County, but it was a place we used to, we used to, well, Polk, we used to Jeep there. And as we were traversing this area, someone said, that's the hill we used to have trouble climbing in jeeps in these new cybersides.

I mean, they just go up stuff. On a scale of one to ten steepest you've ever done, how does it rank? Oh, it doesn't. Really? Yeah. It doesn't even make. I mean, it was a little scary in that when you got to the top, there were really big rocks. You know, I thought I broke an axle on it, but it didn't.

And that's a hard, that's a hard question because there's so many different type hills. You know, some hills you've got places where maybe you might flip over. You got some hills that you hit at a high speed. You got some hills you crawl. This was kind of a crawl hill. Okay. But it was not a big deal. But out of a group of about 10 vehicles, there were only two of us that tried it.

Oh, really? Yeah. And we both made it. It was fun. That's a good measurement? You've never come over backwards, have you? No. Never.

That's amazing. Well, on a four-wheeler one time, just playing around. I had one come over, but it wasn't even, you know, it was just a freak deal. And you got off? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It was one of the first clutch machines I'd ever done.

driven. Mm-hmm. And I was just driving up, stopping, and then rolling back. And somehow I didn't do the clutch right. Came over. No big deal. Just flipped over. Yeah.

I remember, I remember when I first started hunting with y'all, I didn't grow up on four-wheelers or anything. And Gary let me take his four-wheeler out. And I remember I got, I tried to cross a log, lengthways, and got high centered on the axles. And the look of disgust that Gary Newcomb gave me when he came around the court. You're a grown man. Just thinking about it.

How could you have even let this happen? And he's like, get off. Let me do. Did you know that there's some, I tried back in the former Bear Honey magazine podcast days, when we could just, we just talked about whatever we wanted, I was going to have Dad and John Mescoe, who's dad's best buddy down in Mina, um, tell some stories of them, Mesco more than once. like they had to haul him out of the woods in an ambulance or or i mean he broke his leg one time while y'all are out yeah in his shoulder one time in his shoulder one time crawling up stuff and

mesco flip they were way way and then i don't know if you remember but we were riding with some guys one time and uh you know it was pretty it was pretty crazy ride and we just knew somebody was going to get hurt and sure enough this guy did and when the the ambulance came, I went to get the ambulance. And the two ladies were driving the ambulance. They said, you can't drive an ambulance back there. And I go scoot over. And they let me drive this brand new. Oh, yeah. Oh, I remember. You know, but I got in this brand new ambulance. And I drove it, if you know, Wolfpin Gap. I drove that sucker way back into Wolf Pinn Gap. And when I stopped, it was just boiling over with smoke.

But the guy lived. I mean, he was really bad. I mean, this was a bad deal. What happened on that wreck? Well, he just hit a jump wrong and the thing flipped on him. Instead of him doing anything to correct it, he just hung on to the handlebars and it just drove his head straight into the ground. And Mesco was there.

On a four-wheeler. On a four-wheeler, yeah. A warrior, wasn't it? Yamaha warrior. He was a long time ago. And Mesco knew what to do. And he, you know, and I was steadily going to go get the ambulance. We just want to say, Mesko's a doctor.

Yeah, Mesko's a doctor. So you drove that ambulance all the way back in there again. Oh, man, yeah. Well, the other time that they, or one of the times, they were riding. And it was just Dad and John, and John flips, gets in the wreck out. You can go in the details or whatever. But they had to make a splint and splint John's leg up and limp him out. It's pretty interesting, him being a doctor.

We're going down this deal. It looked like a cow's face. I mean, it was just straight down, but we didn't have any choice. We got back in there in the woods, got lost. The commies made him do it. And so I had John, I had John ride on the back of my, I said, John, we both have brand new side besides. We don't know how they function.

Four-wheeler, four-wheelers. And I said, you ride on the back of my rack, because this is like driving off a bluff. So he got on my rack, rode down. So I started running back up the hill to get on his rack, but he thought, I can do this. Well, he got halfway down and it didn't behave the way it was supposed to, or the way he thought it was going to behave. And it just, it just like pitched him out into the air 15 feet up. And when he landed, it just snapped his leg. and then that side-by-side or four-wheeler just kept chasing him down the hill.

Oh, my gosh. And it went five times. And when it got to the bottom, he's sitting next to a tree in the side-by-side just like right here. And it never touched him except the rubber. But to get him out of the woods, he goes, okay, cut six little sticks about the size of my thumb, six inches long. Get your tarp out of the back. Give me your duct tape. I had everything.

And he just made a cast for it. Was it his lower leg, like his shin? Yeah. And so he rode my side, my four-wheeler out, side saddle with all that stuff on it. Took us about two hours, three hours to get him to the hospital. When y'all hear that Indiana Jones music start playing, you need to stop whatever you doing, turn everything off. I'd say we have a choice. Yeah, we have a choice, for real.

Yeah, you can cut that out. But anyway, no, that's wild, man. Four Wheeler stories. I wasn't planning to go there, but we did. But that, so this podcast. Oh, man. It's interesting because Josh and Brent have emotions connected to the podcast that I wasn't expecting Josh coming in to say,

and what did you say? He's tore up. Yeah. I'm a whirlwind of emotion. You've got conflicting emotions? Yeah. Yeah. Because I think the statement that that caught me the most was Andy Brown when he was talking about Louisdale.

And he said, he didn't do everything right, but he did a lot of stuff right. And that there's a juxtaposition there that's like, I think I feel the same way that you do, Clay. It's like there's so many good qualities. It's like, does one cancel out the other? You know what I mean? And so it leaves you in this. quandary of like and and not that you have to in your life support or not support someone but uh you know i i've known lots of people in my life obviously as everybody has but uh you know i i i remember

when we first moved to texas when i was a there was a there was a guy we we lived in this well we were poor we lived in this little mobile home outside of this uh junkyard and i thought it was the greatest thing in the world because I would go wandering around in that junkyard. It was like heaven for me. But the guy that owned it, his name was Vaughn Arnie. And I remember Von Arnie. You'd go in his house. And I remember, and I was like six, maybe six at this time. What were you doing in Bon Arne's house at age? Well, his daughter would babysit me while my mom was working. And go on the house and they had a trust your mom's just. They had lots of mechanics and stuff that would come in. And like every night they would just have 10, 15 people at the dinner table.

His wife would just make enough food for a big group. But I remember Von Arnie. And I remember like he was always real kind to me. But then I would see him deal with people. And I knew everybody kind of knew like you love Vaughn, but you can't quite trust Vaughn, you know. And everybody called him Vaughn Arne. Von Arne. Hey, Von Arne.

Really? Yeah. And, but I remember. that same kind of feeling about this guy, like, I really like him. But there's something about him that's like you just can't get settled about it. And I, you know, listening to the podcast, it kind of made me think of those kind of feelings about, about Louisdale and. Von Arne was a crook. That's what you're trying to say.

Absolutely. He was a crook. He was a con man. I think the thing about these two guys, you don't condone what they did. I mean, it's just wrong, period. There's just no two ways of skin that. But they did so many good things that the good people didn't even do. Yeah.

I mean, they helped people that no one even knew about until the funeral. They did things that were way beyond the normal human activities. I mean, they were just so you can't spin it where what they did was right. It's just not. But why? But why do we like them? Yeah. And the reason we like them is because they love people, they help people, they treated people right.

I would completely agree with you because I think that in a sense, some of the, like the specifically the poaching, I think a lot of that was probably cultural, you know, from the way they grew up. You know, they took meat. And I'm sure, you know, there was a lot of distrust of the government. So, you know, game and fish coming in and saying, you can harvest X number of deer and X number of turkeys is like, this is my country, you know, you don't, you can't tell me what to do in my country. And so, you know, I totally agree. You know, it made me think about the scripture where it talks about when you give, you know, don't need to be recognized for giving. And, you know, thinking about all the people that they helped that nobody knew about but them until the funeral. And, you know, I think those are, there's some very commend.

traits. It didn't do everything right, but they did a lot of things right. Yeah. What do you think, Brent? It was a struggle for me. You know, I've been in law enforcement for 31 years. Yeah. And I have always had the mindset that if I, Clay, if I arrested you for something and you pled not guilty and we went to trial and you were found guilty, I always thought, well, let's go back and charge him perjury because he's obviously lying because he did it. Twelve people said he did. I found it very intriguing. I did not find them endearing at all. Really? No, not even a little bit. But I also don't know him. I don't have the background that Gary has, that Clay has, that you have from being around these folks. But it was, it's hard for me having been in situations where people, where good people make poor decisions in. the heat of the moment, it's hard for me to find an endearing quality in someone who leaves

the house with the purpose of doing something that ain't right. So the confrontation, and, you know, I've said it on here before, if you want two different stories about an incident, get two people who said they were eyewitnesses to it because people see things different. But to have the incident where it was a game warden or the park ranger or whatever it was who was threatened over the dog. Yeah, where Louis Delt pulls his gun. When you put someone's, you point a weapon at somebody or you put someone's life equal

to that of an animal, you know, life is precious. man, and I have seen so much stuff that people wished in that he's the moment they wish they hadn't done. And I can't imagine taking someone's life over an animal like that. Yeah. If it ever happened. If it happened, if that's the way it happened. You know, it was it was just a struggle for me to see that or to try to rationalize anything in it.

That's why I wanted to hear your thoughts on it. Because your worldview would be coming from a career of law enforcement. And that's the one place. What you wouldn't know is that I went to multiple people not to get permission. I got permission and the blessing from the family. That's who I went and said, hey, I'm going to do this. I bounced this off many people, law enforcement people, too. some of them. People in in government positions. Right. Just kind of like, hey, what would you think if I did this? And you know, you couldn't tell the whole story and you couldn't, I didn't even know exactly what the story was. I mean, I kind of grew up around these guys, but I didn't know the full story like I do now or more of the full story. Did you meet them, Clay? Oh yeah, I would have known them. I would have just been a kid. And I'll reveal later.

in the podcast. And I might tell you now, because I don't think I'm going to include it, but like the times I met them, like we went to a, we went to Louis Delle's catfish shootout, bowed, I remember going to their house and even catfish. They hosted a big bow shoot and Louis Dill had a catfish farm.

And then you would just see them around. I knew who they were and I knew Stony and I worked with Charlie's son once for several months on a Weldon gig. When you were a builder? Yeah, when I was a builder. I think the story was, I think telling the story is important for people to know. And I think it was good. There was another thing that bothered me a little bit.

And it was some folks that commented after you've released it on social media, that even after I know of twice, if not three times, you said this is not glorifying or condoning what they did and they were said you know we're kind of taken aback that you would would talk about this you know that they kind of tried to throw some shade on you and i want to say this right now i don't know anybody in the last couple of years during deer season if it was this year or last year whenever it was they had a world-class white tail and not one for Arkansas but one a world-class white tail in this part of the world there was only a few feet inside a piece of property that clay didn't have permission to hunt and he let that deer walk off and he never seen him since and he was by

himself and there was no camera and there was no witness those guys would have shot that deer yeah i don't know hey that deer would have been in trouble if we don't know anywhere near and i'm not saying that i wouldn't have either but i know that you didn't and i know the purpose behind this was not to glorify what they were doing but tell a good story and it is a incredible story that and that brings up a great point for me to and y'all can help me work through this because for real i don't entirely have it all worked out exactly why i wanted to tell this story other than much of the well all the topics in this podcast are going to be things that i am deeply intrigued by. I mean, that's the barometer. Like, where is my interest? Me and dad and Scott Brown and Andy,

everybody that's down in Mina, oh, all you got to do to strike up a conversation with somebody is say something about Louis Dale and Charlie. We all want to talk about them. We all, I mean, I have no shame in saying, I'm deeply intrigued by these guys. And not, and it wasn't because they were outlaws. It was the paradox that they were outlaws. With Game Warden, and you're going to see Louie Dell was a moonshiner illegally making moonshine and stuff. But even inside of that, you'll hear the story and you'll kind of be like, oh, okay. But they were, and the way dad said it was they did a lot of things that the squeaky clean people that never killed an illegal turkey wouldn't do. Yeah.

and that's where well there's value in that well and it doesn't so it's not it's just the story I was interested in telling and that's why in the very beginning I said don't blame me

if you're endeared to these guys but also you get to make a choice and I totally respect what you're saying Brent because it's not like I mean yeah we I mean truly disdain breaking game laws

I'll turn you in in a flash for breaking a game law. You know, it's, it's, I don't know if it's, if it's braggadocious or, or, or, or what it is to be able to, if they killed a quarter of the, what they were accused of. But, you know, it's a selfish way to look at it, you know, because they're, the game laws are set there for everybody. And when they, if they don't apply to everybody, that they don't work. You know, and I mean, you look at where we are right now. Mr. Charlie and Mr. Louisdale didn't cause us to, you know, have low turkey numbers now. But what would that be down there if that hadn't taken place?

Who knows? That's a micro way to look at that as far as that area that they're from. But it was just, I just think it was a selfish way to look at it. You know, I agree with everything you're saying. but there's another side you be in law enforcement I came into the hunting world where all I knew was quill hunting from my dad and I do I didn't like it because he was such a crazy I mean he just hunted all the time I mean you know he just he I'm not all the time when he went it was it was worked right I go man I don't want any part of this so I had nothing to do with a hunting world until I got 26 and so I was introduced to bow hunting and I immediately fell in love with it and I got to watchin people

and I saw nobody now take this literal I'm telling you like I saw it I knew nobody that wouldn't kill an illegal deer and I'm like in a state of shock I'm not going to do that I didn't have uncles that taught me that

I didn't have a dad that taught me that now if you run up against Jock and he's a city boy out enjoying hunting, you know, two or three times a year. Now, he's not going to kill anything illegal. He read the regulations and just did what it said. Yeah, yeah. But the diehard hunters, I'm telling you, from my perspective, you've got to keep that in mind, my perspective, they all killed illegal stuff.

So where do you draw the line? I killed one person. I kill 50 people. I mean, you're killing stuff. It's illegal. And where is it bad? It's bad with one. Yeah.

It's bad with 10. It's bad with 30. These guys took their bad ways and turned it into a game. And, I mean, you know, whether you like that or not. But a lot of the people, well, a lot of the people that are real hardcore kill illegal stuff. So when I was talking to one of the law enforcement guys, and I won't. say his name, but he kind of dissected a little bit of me with, of the podcast. And he said, Clay, there are not old-time poachers like there used to be. And Jimmy Martin said it too.

There's a little bit of a potential, well, I'm not justifying. And I don't have to qualify that I'm not justifying their actions. But every time we look into history and see something that went on and then put today's value system on that thing. It doesn't mean that what they did was right then. That's not what I'm saying, but it is different. Absolutely. And what dad's saying compares to what Jimmy Martin said and what this other law enforcement guy that I said that I spoke with, he said, Clay,

things are not like they used to be. He said the old time poachers are pretty much gone. And what he meant by that, was used to you could go poaching or you could go hunting and illegally kill something and you had to go home to a landline phone to call in the game warden anymore we have cell phones we have cell service it's just much more difficult to hide stuff you send a picture so partly law enforcement methods i think have gotten better but also it's just culturally not except there's the exception there's the exception You know, there's somebody out there right now. There's always. Probably like, yeah, I used to do that. But these character types, like Louisdale and Charlie, actually were fairly common.

Like, I was talking to my friend, I'll say his name, Yadis Putels. And he said that he knew some guys in a state. And he said, Clay, they tried to kill a turkey for every year of their age. And they did it until they were 40. Oh, my gosh. every season. So I was kind of surprised by that because you know you kind of think that

oh these outlaws are probably as good as they come or you know as notorious as they come kill as much and I told Yon's the story he listened to it and he was like yeah I knew some guys like that and it was in a state that had incredible turkey populations

and it was in a part of the world that reveres turkey hunting and and these guys were just wearing them out and they were basically doing the same thing as lou and charlie they were they were getting dropped off and hiding guns i mean that's kind of the the norm um the other reason that i did this is i part of what makes um light bright is darkness i mean it's like we have built such a system and it's so deeply ingrained inside of me not that i do everything perfect i've i've i've

broke game laws before. But they're... How dare you? And I'm going to tell about them on the next podcast. Or they can go back to the Arkansas Barron Bucking Journal. Yeah. You find that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I think it helps to see the big picture. And like I envision maybe some people new to hunting. Like you, Dad, that you said when you first started big game hunting, you'd grown up doing some hunting, but big game hunting. And you were like, well... those are the regulations, everybody obeys the rules, right? And then you got in there and we're like,

nobody obeyed the rules. And that's just the way it was. I like the way Andy said it at one time when he said Louis Dale turned his dogs out on October 1st. He was like, he like leaned out of his chair and he said, that's just the way it happened. Okay, I'm not saying it was right.

You know, anyway, point being, this is part of the culture that we're coming out of that I think we're doing a good job of saying we shouldn't do. I tell you what this, what this law enforcement guy told me, he said the big time poachers of today,

he said they're ultra secret. You don't see them on the internet. Guys posting stuff on the internet. They get caught immediately. They're going to get caught. Yeah. But there are some people that are like high level, high level poachers that you just don't hear about,

you don't know about, but are killing an incredible amount of stuff. Yeah. On Blood Trails, the stories don't end when the hunt is over. They just get darker. I've seen something in the road. I instantly thought it was a sleeping bag. And there was a full of blood.

Oh, my God, he doesn't have a hit. Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors, where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce, and the truth gets buried under brush and silence. Indications were he should be right there. But he wasn't. This season, we're going deeper. From cold case files to whispered suspicions,

from remote mountains to frozen backwards. Each story begins in the wilderness and ends in darkness. Because out here, there are no witnesses, no cameras, just fragments and the people left behind trying to piece them back together. He's not an honest person. He's incapable of being honest. Somebody somewhere knows something. I'm Jordan Sillers.

Season 2 of Blood Trails premieres April 16th. Follow now on Apple, IHeart, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. So, Misty, what did you think? Well, it's so interesting to hear people, I mean, to hear different perspectives, to even hear that there are different perspectives. I'm just listening to y'all, and I have a lot of thoughts. I was raised around outlaws. Do you know that, Britt?

Like bikers. Yeah, you tell me. And so my dad was a minister, and he'd go out to pretty rough places and, you know, built a lot of trust. So we would get invited to, you know, funerals and weddings and all sorts of things in some pretty messed up places. And those men were so nice to me. As a little girl, I wouldn't have told you that, you know, so I felt real comfortable. And like, these were my grandparents or my uncles. So those were the people that I was raised around.

So I think I have a predisposition to see the soft, the kind side inside of pretty rough, rough characters. And to like that, to like people like that, just to feel safe with people who are, you know, maybe pull weapons on people. But I was just thinking about, like, you know, if you were to ask me, if you were to ask me who those people were, I would give you a description of really nice people. people that always kept candy in their pockets and gave it to me people who just treated me real special. Yeah, and real nice to me. But I guess if you were to ask

you know, I'm sure the victims of their their crimes, like the guy he pulled the gun on, I would imagine he would not have a nice, who's to say. Perspective. Yeah, who's to say what they really were. And I think that one of the things that we do a lot is we judge people based off of these really bad things they do. And in reality, you know, I work in kind of a different circle now than I grew up in.

And there's a lot of people that I trust that look really nice and that would never probably pull a gun on someone over a dog or for whatever reason. But I don't trust them at all. And I don't think they're good people and I don't feel safe around them. And I don't trust them at all. And they can walk into a bank and get alone and be treated. Look pretty and drive a nice truck and have pretty white teeth. And I don't like them. And I don't feel safe around those kind of people.

And I'm just thinking, like, what makes a person, when Andy Brown at the very end said they were just so pure. I thought that was such an interesting, such an interesting way to describe them. They were just so pure. Because it's... That is the last thing I thought he was going to say. Yeah.

Who are we really? And I think you see, in general, we want to be, we want to be interpreted by our best attributes, by our... And I think the reason that... Clay and his dad have respect for these guys. And I actually didn't know them. My mom did, but I didn't. But they have heard this other side of them. I just think people are so complex. And that's why the story, Clay would come home and talk to me about these interviews he was doing and about these stories. And I really enjoyed the stories because I think it really shows the complexity of people.

And I think this day and age, we look at people and we say, that person did this one time. And I'm not saying that's what you're doing, Brent, but I'm just saying, like in cultural today, We look at things that people did, mistakes they made, times that have changed, and we say, that was evil and that person is evil. In reality, people do all sorts of crazy things. You know, even biblically, if you look at people like that God loved, they did some really, really crazy stuff. Sure. And I kind of feel some sort of comfort in the sense that you're not judged by those, by your worst actions. Who you are is not, is the sum of.

you know, kind of more the core of you than the worst things you've done. And I feel like that's the story of the podcast kind of tells a little bit. Yeah, I just want to make absolutely clear. I'm not saying these folks were bad people. Yeah. Yeah, no, I know. Your point is 100% clear. Yeah.

And I, you know, I said in the beginning that I set out to resolve the inner conflict, which is just the truth, inner conflict of why do I like these guys? but they, what they did, I would absolutely not stand for. Like if I was in that, if I turkey hunted and saw them walk out of the woods with a gobbler two days before season, I would be chasing them down in the truck to turn them in. And then when I figured out who it was, maybe I'd. Yeah. You know, I think everybody, I think almost everybody has the feelings that Brent has, but not the depth.

You know, you've got a real word of. But it's like me, hey, I was for the game, I was for the game wardens. I'll be honest with you. I love Charlie and Louisdale, but there's no way that I was for what they were doing. And here's another thought is I knew Charlie and Louisdale as humans. Right. I mean, when I saw Charlie and Louisdale, I didn't think of turkey poor poachers, even though I probably really did, but I'm trying to make a point. Yeah.

They were hardworking people that I enjoyed being around. I enjoyed talking to them. They'd come in my office and sat down and tell stories, and they were just, they were just good, good folks. Now, they were turkey poachers, secondly. So, you know, we're looking at them as turkey poachers and then these people. But they were these people that poached. Yeah.

So I don't know if that confused things. Well, what it says is that, everything is complex. I mean, you know, like, I saw some comment where just somebody said, I don't revere these scumbags. And they were using my words because I said I revered them. And it's just like, I get it.

If you, there are places in that guy's life where I guarantee you, he does revere somebody that if it was someone far off, he would say they're a scumbag. Point being, we, it's just a, complex story being a human. Yeah. What were we going to say, Josh?

Well, I was just thinking, because I was thinking, you know, there is a, there's a dichotomy here that, you know, we revere them and we don't like what they do. But I think, I think a lot of times in situations like this, when you're talking about, for instance, poaching, there is a, there's got to be the thought in the back of a man's mind that this isn't really hurting anyone. You know what I mean? There's, and I think that's kind of a dividing line of what you say what's a bad person what's a good person i think in the back of their mind they're thinking nobody's really getting hurt by this it's just a law to try to keep you know whatever but i'm not hurting anybody by doing it and i think that that can that can be easily justified away by the good

things that you do you know what i mean because you care about people and you know you look out for them and you know i'm just killing a few extra deer killing a few extra turkeys now when we take into to consideration, you know, pointing a gun at an officer. Ill-advised. That's very ill-advised. Well, let me tell you what, and this is kind of deep, deeper nuance inside of the takeaway from it. And I hope this was maybe portrayed at the end of the podcast when I gave my summary.

More than... Oh, I never listened to that part. You don't listen to that part. If you could take the mold of those guys, a mold, and put something else different, maybe a little different concoction inside of it, I said that those guys could have given a master class on identity and being genuine, which are two things that are massively, massively in the mix, in the fight for every person on planet Earth. Yes. Every person in this room, like we're, I mean, the struggle of human nature is who are we? And I mean, if you don't identify with that statement, it's just because I didn't say it in your language the way that you would because you are. You are trying to find who you are.

Who are you supposed to be? How are you supposed to act? What are you supposed to value? What are you supposed to say? Who are you supposed to love? Where are you supposed to work? Where are you supposed to put your energy? Where do you get your validation?

Who do you want to say that you're good? Who do you want to, you know, identity? And most of us, and I'm putting me inside of there, our identity is shaped often in the negative space of I don't want to be like that. I don't want to be perceived this way. I'm afraid of this. I'm afraid of that. And so a lot of identities built out of insecurity. And what I saw inside of interview in Charlie and Louie Dell,

And I was just a kid with these guys, so it's not like I had personal adult interaction, you know, knowing them, was that they really didn't care a lot about what people thought. They had this shape of who they were. They weren't ashamed of it. And Neil Taylor said it so well. He said they were content with who they were. They didn't want to be anything that they weren't. And they had a value system that they kept their whole life. And they were the same way with the game warden as they were with their best buddy down the street.

It's like, what has value as a human? The guy that, you know, let me ask every person that's ever that's listening to this right now. Have you broken a game law? Yes. Have you killed one more than you're supposed to? Misty Newcomb is the only angel here. Maybe Josh too. What?

Have you ever broken the game law? Accidentally. Okay. Well, you're a poacher. And a sorry individual. Wow, I can't even believe you're here. In that shot. No, listen, here's my point is that Charlie and Louisdale broke game laws and hid stuff,

but they were up front about it. They just, the game words do it, they knew it, everybody knew it, we all knew it. People gravitate to someone that you can trust, even if you can trust them to be a poacher. You know what I mean? Yeah. And that comes into play with the idea. identity. It's like, it's like I, yeah, you're predictable. The thing that makes people feel unsure is when you have someone that you don't think. You can't get a read on. Exactly. I mean, what makes you more uncomfortable than meeting someone and thinking, I have no idea what's going on inside of that. I don't know if they like me or they hate me or if they want to steal my money or stab me in the back or want to. Andy said that, he said, he said, he said, Louis Del Edwards didn't beat around the bush with anybody. He was just up front. Do you have an example of the way he would have been? Not really.

I didn't know him as well as Andy. Yeah. But I knew him pretty well. I mean, we shot bows together and he'd stop by the bank occasionally and just visit. But I really can't elaborate on what he said. I can't give you a story. Yeah. But I agreed with it.

I mean, he didn't put up any facades. I mean, if you didn't like you're a bow hunter and you don't like the kind of bow he uses, you know how we do. who, if I, if you got a recurve, you don't like my compound. If I got a compound, I don't like your gun. I mean, he didn't carry any thing about that kind of stuff. I mean, just, you know, he had dogs. If you don't like dogs, that's tough.

You don't like my big guns. That's tough. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, I just respect the certainty of it. I just do. I mean, and what we've got to build is people that have a value system that's really good, that have that kind of certainty. have that kind that's what I want I mean I in man if there's one thing that I I value

inside of what I'm doing is that when I interact with people and especially on it something like this one I'm really researching somebody whether it's Warner Glenn or Daniel Boone or Louie Dell and Charlie Edwards which it's wild that these guys are probably never broken a game all oh come on now well I mean part of the podcast Since he was 14. I know you're joking. Just kidding. He wouldn't.

He's a very good fella. Hey, one thing about these guys, too. See, I was brought up in a home where, you know, it's pretty sterile, pretty pure. And in a way, Clay Newcomb was brought up in a home like that. And Misty was. And probably a lot of you guys listening. He pointed it at Brent and then kind of turned his finger away. Not Brent.

Dad's dad was a preacher. My grandfather was a preacher. So dad is a preacher's kid. So, you know, hey, we're not all dealt the same hand. Yeah. I mean, these guys were brought up by moonshiners that when they got up in the morning, their daddies and mommas were going, now you guys study hard at school and don't be getting in trouble,

and these are our rules and be good boys. But they come home and they're making moonshine. and the little kids are going, why are the cops got us surrounded? I mean, you know, they're brought up, they see their heroes

and their mentors and their leaders and they're all a bunch of criminals. And so you got these little guys growing up in that environment. And when they break out on their own, you see this kind of, like Andy said,

pure. I mean, I don't necessarily agree with that word pure. Right. But in a sense, you see this, pure human that you're he's got honesty integrity a handshakes all you need you just keep going on

and on you need help he's there just bam bam bam and you're going wow and the guy killed a few extra turkeys now which way am i going to go with this guy you know and um so they're brought up in an environment that, you know, they were making a living illegally. Man, I thought the, the, I didn't know what I was getting into when I talked to Stoney. Yeah. They literally just put out this three ring binder where they had laminated newspaper clippings from 1926. Yeah.

And it, and it was all this stuff about the moonshine and getting, you know, basically the, the police, you know, where they were acquitted of murder. and we don't know the whole story, but man was killed, police were at six police, when we were put on trial for murder, all of them were acquitted, and a man and his coon dog were dead.

It's pretty wild story. Shot on. Yeah. And it, point being, just, you know, that,

the story lines up, you know, the story lines up. There's a trajectory there. There is. Hey, you know, this probably gets me in a lot of trouble

so you can cut this out. but I've always said the mafia, when they tell you they're going to kill you, they're going to kill you. You know, in other words, you can trust them. I mean, there's an integrity inside of every little system that if it's dealt off of honesty, it usually works.

And the only honesty the mafia has is if you disagree with them, you're probably going to die. But you know, I mean, you know what I'm saying? Right. Charlie's little group, I mean, all they're doing is killing turkeys. Yeah. But they had this integrity that meant a lot to them. Yeah.

And they lived within those boundaries. Yeah, they had a code. I think what Misty said. And Brent, I want to hear your real thoughts because I would love it if you just went, you guys are full of malarkey, this philosophy stuff. But let me say this. What Misty said when she said it, I was like, yeah.

And I think this would be pretty deep inside of Misty and I in particular, is that there is a whitewashed righteousness that is just malarkey in the world, where you see people that have a glimmer, a shine of being perfect, and they're not at all. And I mean, that's part of what is so intriguing to me about rural culture and poor people and all this stuff is that the world has said these people are not of value. you. I mean, essentially in some bigger macro picture of, of where value is. And that is something that from a, I mean, just from birth, I kind of keyed in on that, that that guy may look pretty, but he's a bad guy.

That guy may have some rough edges, but he's a good guy. And that's like real strong inside of me. Like I would rather, well, and there's, there's all kind of, there's all kind of proverbs about stuff like, that you know better to better to say you're not going to do it and then do it than to say you're going to do it and not do it you know so it might as well just portray yourself as whatever you want to portray yourself a lot of it comes with the unknown in other words if i know brent and i know what to expect he can you know he can do a couple of little goofy things and it's okay i i know what's going on. But if he's all polished and shined and trying to sell me a bill of goods and he's a con man, like I shouldn't have judged your old buddy like I did. It made the point, you know,

a guy like that where you're going, wait a minute, he treats me like a king and then he's, he's like given this guy a raw bill. But, uh, yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's, you're getting something that you don't see with your eyes. You know, I want to see the whole guy, then I can deal with it. Right. Even, you know, go back to the mafia, which is kind of stupid. All I know is I don't do a couple things. They're not going to kill me, you know.

Yeah. So at least I know where I stand. I don't want to be around these people. Yeah. But a lot of, most folks, a lot of folks around, you know, we don't know what we're getting. Yeah. What do you think, Brent? Well, you have an opportunity to make good choices and bad choices.

and there's always circumstances for that. The incident with the dog, true or not, but I'm sure there's other things that have happened like that, not just to them, a lot of people. They were out there breaking the law, and so they put themselves in that position. You know, nobody told them to go run dogs on October 1st. That may be what they did, but that doesn't make it right.

Right. And it brings up a incident or an opportunity for something tragic to happen. Tragic, something tragic did happen when the guy and the kundal got killed. Yeah. You know, number one, why ride around in a car didn't got no breaks in the mountains? That was one thing I took away from that. I got some follow-up questions. Yeah.

Yeah. That was, you know, if he couldn't stop, why? was he out there driving that thing anyway. I had a feeling that could have been a family spin. The moonshine, you know, making moonshine, they wouldn't have been after them if they had not been making moonshine. Yeah. Now, you know, my dad, when before I was born, couldn't find a job in southeast Arkansas.

He went to Ipsilani, Michigan and worked for Ford Motor Company up there on the assembly line because that's how he had to feed his family. He didn't stay at home and poach turkey. Or make moonshine. That's a great, I love it, Brent. That's a good example right there. Your dad would have been probably about in the same era as these guys. But my father had an absolute disdain for authority.

He did like the police and he got whole family full of them. Which is another story. But, I mean, you see, you put your say, You put yourself in those kind of positions, and if you don't, a lot of that badness goes away. You know, I see some, in my career, I've seen a lot of sadness and a lot of things that I wish I could not remember. But I know that they were, the majority of the people that I saw do the most hideous things were, have also done some good in their life, you know? Right. And they just got caught up in a bad deal, in a bad situation.

and it didn't see a way out. And we're talking, we're not talking about murdering, folks. We're talking about killing turkeys. I mean, I realize there's a heck of a difference. But right is right and wrong is wrong. And you make a choice and you put yourself there. And they say, the old saying is if you play stupid games, you'll win stupid prizes. So that's about my take on it.

Yeah, yeah. No, that's good. I think it's a really strong point in what you said. And it's absolutely. apples to apples saying my dad didn't have a job and he moved to Michigan and worked at a forward line he didn't stay home and make moonshine and kill turkeys i mean that that's a that's a valid point you know so everything that's been said is right and that's exactly why i wanted to tell this story because it's it's an interesting human story and if nothing else it'll make us

have discussions like this which i think are valuable and it'll bring some you know there there there are there's value in looking back. I mean, like, if it was wrong to talk about bad stuff that happened, then we would have to shut down the entire century between 1800 and 1900 on every level of human life. Yeah. And we wouldn't talk about it. Well, that happens to be one of my favorite periods of American history.

I mean, you know, I mean, the market hunting and all the wild stuff that happened. And so we can look back in history and we can see stuff and we can learn from it. And this one, it's a simple learn. I mean, obviously, we're not condone and anybody go kill a bunch of turkeys. And if you do, you're stupid. Or pulling guns on. Yeah.

Anybody. Anybody. And it's not cool. If a guy did that today, I would, I mean, I would, I mean, outright just would be a selfish, egotistical jerk. I mean, like, there would be no place if a guy today. But, but, and again, this was. a long time ago and maybe that is

phariseical of me to say that but um and i'm not condone i'm not saying that it was good i'm just saying these guys had character traits that were valuable and that's what i'm interested in looking at because man you can look at a bunch of people that did a bunch of stuff right all the time and not have the tools that you need to be successful like we got to look at a whole bunch of stuff everybody messed up did stupid stuff you know what i mean Right. People are complex.

I mean, that's the, I think to me, that's the takeaway from the, people are complex. From the whole story is that, man, people are complex, and they pull out complex emotions out of us. I mean, I think about all the different people that, I mean, even think about your dad, like you probably have all sorts of complicated feelings about him. You know, I'm just calling your dad out because he's not in the room.

Right. But think about your, you know, like you probably have really positive feelings about him. and really, really negative ones as well. And you could say, my dad built this stuff in me, and that was really good, and my dad built this stuff in me that wasn't. And I think we've got a culture right now that says,

well, if there's anything bad, we're going to cancel the whole person. Yeah. And I don't like that. I don't like that. I think that's really unhealthy. And I think the value of what you did in this story, one of the things I appreciated about it,

is that you kind of showed this complex picture of these people. he'll pull a gun on someone and I don't feel like he told the best stories I've heard about him Oh man Wait till the second episode I'm talking about positive stories

I think there's some really Good stories about these guys That didn't get told Because they're kind of hard To trace back and tell You know And I think some of the reason That I find these men endearing

Is because some of those stories And those were the first stories I heard Yeah yeah And like I didn't hear about the turkey potion I just heard about this other stuff And those Some of those are going to come out

In the second podcast So just for those following along, there was a genuine outlaws part one. There's going to be a genuine outlaws part two, which is going to be another bio piece on Louis Dale and Charlie. So it's just going to be more stories. Except this one, it's less poaching and more just some kind of wild stories about these guys, which in some ways is just entertaining to hear. And it just paints a colorful picture.

and I think that it shows an image of this part of the world. And I just want to tell that story. The third podcast in Genuine Outlaws Part 3 is going to be foreshadowing. I don't want to say because I'm uncertain who I've got... What happens in part four? I've gotten three people that are willing to talk. And man, they're like high-level people. people that want to comment on this very particular thing.

Yeah, and I think that that's part of the interesting part about this, is that there are people who want to talk who are positioned to be against these people. Even Jimmy, I mean, the Game Mortons were... I was shocked at what Jimmy Martin said. And they will not talk to Clay unless they're like, well, we want to know that these are good people. We want to know the family is supportive of it. And it's just, it speaks to their character that people care about what they think.

You know one thing Jimmy said that I might have misunderstood it, and I didn't agree with it. I don't think Louis Dill and Charlie built this myth. They told facts. Yeah. I think it's like Bonnie and Clyde. Every bank robber that every bank that was robbed was done by Bonnie and Clyde, so the story got bigger than it really was. I'm hoping that's kind of what he meant because, well, Charlie for sure, he was kind of a humble guy that a little bit of. I knew about him.

I mean, he wasn't going to go in Lime Tree and brag about killing a bunch of turkeys out of well, I'm glad you said that because when I, as soon as the podcast came out, Neil Taylor texted me. And he said, Clay, they killed every turkey they ever claimed to have killed. He said, they like to talk about it. They like to brag a little bit. Probably talk about Louis Dill. He said, but they were not liars.

That's right. And I felt like there was some journalistic integrity in me putting that in, just because Jimmy Martin, that's what he thought. And he had a right to have an opinion of whether they really killed as many as they did. And the tendency would be for the story to grow. Even though when he said it, I was thinking, they killed every turkey they said. They did.

I really believed it. I really believed it. But I felt like I owed it to Jimmy to put it. that in there. He did such a great job. Yeah. You know, I mean, it was, he just made the story. But I think that one particular place, people like Andy and myself and other people would go, no, if they told you they killed 36 turkeys, they killed 36 turkeys. I mean, that was part of the beauty of these guys. Yeah. Yeah. I'm really glad you said that. Just for the listeners, can you guys tell us what the

lime tree is. And the Hall of Landmark restaurant in Maine Arkansas where everybody would

go and see the food restaurants used to be the Holland house Andy Brown

mentioned the Holland house he said they need to go down to the Holland house and say

yeah yeah so we're going to end this podcast on a high note

okay Gary Newcom hunted with Charlie Edwards one time when he first came

into me and I'll tee you up a little bit with a little drama

So dad was a banker, a young banker in a small town. Young handsome banker. With a bunch of little rug rat kids. And came into Mina. And, you know, he was, and he's got his reasons for why he went hunting with a guy. But you didn't know the full story of who this guy was. He was your customer. And he invited you turkey hunting.

And you were like, I'm going to go turkey hunting. No, don't get too carried away. Okay. I didn't invite you turkey hunting. I was hunting in early March. I invited myself. Okay. Well, tell the story.

Well, I turkey hunted for about 10 years, and I didn't, you know, I killed a few turkeys, but I just wasn't getting it, you know. And I didn't want anybody to call a bird. I just kind of wanted to do it on my own. And finally, I just told a friend of mine, I said, you know, I think I need to go out with a really good turkey hunter. And he said, well, I'm hunting with Charlie. I'm going to hunt in this group with Charlie Edwards Saturday if you want to come on.

And so anyway, I talked to Charlie and he said, yeah, come on. I'll take you hunting. Hey, do you mad him up at the time? Yeah, yeah, I knew him. I knew him, but I can't get all those details exactly right. But there was a third guy involved, a realtor. Okay. And so anyway, a friend of mine called me and said, man, you can't go hunt with these guys.

The game wardens, they're going to be thickest thieves out there after them. And I go, well, I'm not going to do anything wrong, which might have been stupid. I don't know. But I said, I'm not going to do anything wrong. So I'm going. And so I went. And we ended up killing three birds and one big bird gobbled, which I just thought about this on the way up here. One big bird gobbled and we didn't go after it.

And I thought, why aren't we going after that bird? I'm thinking he was saving it. So we go over here where there's a bunch of younger birds and he calls in a whole flock, you know. and end up killing three of them. He does. He did. He did. They were coming up on his side.

Actually, he killed two, and he was wanting me to kill him. And I go, you know, they're on your side. I can't get around, you know, blah, blah. And so he goes, okay, bam, bam, kills two. And then he goes, you may call them back in again? I go, yeah. And so we move about 10 or 15 yards on this knob. He calls again, here they come again.

again and they come up on his side and anyway he goes shoot I go man I can't I can't get a beat on on him and bam so he's got three birds killed three turkeys there's a three bird limit in Arkansas so you know I go you're going to tag those birds and he goes nah and so I didn't want to be accomplished to some major crime so I didn't say anything but we went to the which made you an accomplished yeah exactly yeah yeah So anyway, I mean, I just said, okay, you know, that's your choice. And we go to the store to check it in there at Big Fork. And he, he didn't sign them in, didn't have them tagged, had them in the back of the truck right in front of the store.

And a game warden pulls up right at the front door. I mean, I'm like, as much as I like Charlie, I'm like, I'm kind of for the game wardens, you know. I mean, I want, you know, I want some of these birds for myself. And so the guy comes in and Charlie just starts signing these birds in. Hey, how you doing here, Game Warden? And, you know, meet my best friend here, Gary Newcomb and this realtor. So you play it interference for his. And so, you know, we just got the talk and the guy never went out and looked at the back of that truck.

And, but it was just real fun. Charlie was real nice and polite and, you know, he could call like a crazy man. And, I mean, he had that big long, what, 32 inch barrel on that gun. Yeah, 30. I asked Stoney, it's 30, uh, 36 maybe. 36. I mean, it's, wow. He called it a long time.

Long time, yeah. I mean, that suck would be way out there. But the point of it, and the way I remember dad telling it so many times was that the game wardens could have caught him. The game warden didn't do his. And it wasn't Jimmy Martin. It wasn't Jimmy Martin. It wasn't Jimmy. It was a different Game Warden.

And he just pulled right up in front, right close to Louis Dells or Charlie's truck and walked in and Charlie saw him. And if the game warden had just walked over to the back of the truck, he just would have seen untagged birds. Right. Not signed in. Because back then you had put a tag on it and sign it in. And so just the way it worked, like it was just no big deal. And it was kind of a fumble. it felt like if they're trying to catch them.

That's the way I interpreted. That's the way it appeared to me. So in all the years, they never got busted. Well, wait until episode two. Foreshadowing. Wait till episode two. Not for turkey hunting, I don't think. Maybe earlier.

Well, I will foreshadow. They have been, they did get busted with illegal turkey hunting early on when they were young. Why did you just, that's not foreshadowing? That's like, that's like jumping at a punchline. It's straight up shadowing. You're like just shining a light on something. Yeah, that's shining a light. Well, I mean, I pretty much said it.

He did. In the podcast, didn't it? Yep. Yeah, I think it's good. Or Isaac could just beep that whole thing out. Like three minutes at the beginning. Like he went on a cousin Terry. Everybody always got a big kick out of that story,

and they still do and mean that today that Gary Newcomb went hunting with Charlie Edwards. And Charlie killed three turkeys. Outlaw, Gary Newcomb. Let me tell you, we'll end right here. The one interaction that I had with Charlie Edwards, like, face to face, like where we were talking. The only time I remember talking to him, I must have been a teenager, and I was at Big Fork,

and I cannot remember who I was hunting with, but I was hunting with somebody. We pull up to the Big Fork store, and we're in our camo, and it's turkey season, and, well, there's Charlie Edwards, and we just kind of meet him, and he's like, I assume, I do not remember, remember this I assume he said well y'all do any good and we talk about turkey hunting and he has the

long tom in his truck which is this giant gun it's spray painted green when I when I saw it it was spray painted like a like a like a spring green and he pulls the gun out and he says look at this and he hands me the long tom and I'm holding it in the parking lot and he goes look down the barrel of that thing, Clay. And the phraseology of it and my young, non-abstract thinking childhood mind thought that was an odd way. Like I said, look down the barrel. And he said, yeah.

And I said, is it loaded? And he said, yeah, don't pull the trigger. He first real said that. The gun was loaded, which would have been illegal, the driver out. But he said, and what he wanted me to do was just shoulder the gun. and look down the barrel. Yeah. Well, I put the butt of the shotgun on the ground and look down the barrel.

And he's like, this kid. He's like, what are you doing? He never said anything, but he had to have been just like, what is this kid doing? That guy's an idiot. But I remember really questioning, I said, look down the, yeah, just look down the barrel. Safety first, Charlie. Is it loaded? Yeah, it's loaded.

Don't pull a trigger. There's psychological studies that have been done on this phenomenon where you do something you know you shouldn't do just because someone says to do it with confidence. If he would have been like, jump off the cliff, I'd have been like, really? I mean, I was probably 16. But leave my gun.

Don't take my gun with you. So that was, I have a look down the barrel of all the top, like many a gobbler's down. You may be the only thing with a beard that live through that. Oh, hey, while we're closing, Um, bear grease merch is all over. Bear grease hats are like for real in right now. You can order real bear grease hats.

I can stop getting them from China now. Yeah. Somebody ordered one of those knockoffs and it was pretty rough. Um, there's also the Akron Beargree shirt, which is my favorite. There's also an owl. That looks a whole lot like a Landbridge mustache.

Yeah, it is, I think. I'd say so. I say that. It's an, if you haven't seen this shirt, It says Acorn A-K- I was going to talk about it. It says A-K-E-R-N as in

Akron, the way that 20% of the country pronounces it. And there's a big, beautiful Akron that's the shape of a man's head. A-Kron has a beard and giant mustache that says bear grease. This is an epic t-shirt design. I love it.

So you can get that. And then there's another cool t-shirt design. I believe I saw that t-shirt design scribbled on the legal pad at one point. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, this is, I designed this. Do me a favor. Go buy one. Wear it proudly. Then there's a, there's another shirt of a barred owl, a beautiful rendition of a barred owl, full eagle, spread eagle, spread owl. And it says like a quote, and it says bard owl. You know, like, someone said something and you put their name. Phonetically. Quote.

Yeah, and it says, it pronounces it phonetically. And then there's another beautiful shirt of a jar of bear grease that says bear grease and that lists all the different uses of bear grease underneath it. So it's pretty cool shirts. Nice. So, and then there's the Gary Newcomb Believer hats.

Dad's name is actually on the website. He's got a sign. No, I haven't. Yeah. Is it really? It says inspired by Gary Newcomb, the Believer hat. They sold out of those in like a day. Wow.

But I think they're getting them back. So, hey, great conversation. Thank you all so much. You're welcome. First Lights Fieldwear collection is made for the work that happens long before opening day and continues when the season ends. Products built for early mornings, full days and real use. Hard wearing where they need to be versatile where it matters.

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