Bear Grease - Ep. 54: Genuine Outlaws - Rough Men, Part 2

Episode Date: May 18, 2022

On this episode of the Bear Grease Podcast, we’re going to continue building abiographical sketch of Louie Dale and Charley Edwards, two Southern characters known for being turkey hunting outlaws, but also beloved men in their community – by most. We’ll be diving into the moonshine incident and give some backing for why people said they were “rough men” – you’re going to hear about some fighting and gun play, so if you’re sensitive to such talk – be advised - but if you want a small picture into the American south, these guys deliver. These men were connected to the land and it shaped their identity. Host Clay Newcomb, having known them his whole life, Is unashamed by how much he liked these guys, but conflicted because he disagreed with some stuff they did. Life is a paradox and linear equations built for judgement don’t always add up. This episode is a sketch of two modern colorful characters. Their lives were just straight up entertaining and intriguing, we doubt you’re gunna want to miss it….Hey, and if you’ll stick around the very end…You’ll hear Clay and game warden Jimmy Martin relive a run in they had when Clay was 16 years old. Connect with Clay and MeatEater Clay on Instagram MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and Youtube Shop Bear Grease MerchSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Built to perform, built to last. Check out. First Light's new field. Worldware gear at firstlight.com. They run one vehicle up behind him and run another one up and parked in front of the car and open fire. Dad bailed out and he said, I just ran. He said, and I ran hard.

He said, there was two barbed wire fences. I don't remember jumping any one of them. On this episode of the Bear Grease podcast, we're going to continue building a biographical sketch of Louis Del and Charlie Edwards, two southern characters known for being turkey hunting outlaws, but also beloved men in their community by most. We'll be diving into the moonshine incident and giving some backing for why people said they were rough men. You're going to hear about some fighting and some gunplay. So if you're sensitive to such talk, be advised. But if you want a picture into the American South, these guys will deliver.

These men were connected to the land and it shaped their identity. Having known them my whole life, I'm unashamed by how much I like these guys, but conflicted by how much I disagree with some of the stuff they did. Life is a paradox and linear equations built for judgment don't always add up. This episode is a character sketch of two modern, colorful, characters. Their lives were just straight up entertaining and intriguing. I doubt you're going to want to miss this one. And hey, stick around to the very end and you'll hear me and game warden Jimmy Martin relive the run-in that I had with him when I was 16 years old. According to game laws,

they were poaching. According to our forefathers, they were doing what they were supposed to. They grew up with that mentality right here in this belly. And it still exists to a point. We're more civilized now. Yeah. Yeah. My name is Clay Newcomb and this is the Bear Grease podcast where we'll explore things forgotten but relevant.

Search for insight in unlikely places and where we'll tell the story of Americans who live their lives close to the land. Presented by FHF Gear. American made, purpose-built, hunting and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. In part one of our genuine outlaw series, we introduced you to two brothers by the name of Louisdale and Charlie Edwards from Big Fork, Arkansas, and the Western Washtals.

If you haven't listened to it, you've got to for all this to make sense. Charlie passed away in 2014 at the age of 73, and Louisdale in 2021 at the age of. of 76. I expressed my inner conflict in telling their story because there is a risk of glamorizing breaking the laws and outlawing. But being true to our mission, I love telling the stories of people who live their lives close to the land, especially in the South. And without a doubt, my whole life, I've been intrigued by these men. I think it's an apropos time to clarify the intent of telling this story. It is not to decide if breaking game laws is right or wrong. We all know

the answer to that. What it is is an intriguing look into human nature. Often we gravitate towards stories that are far outside of our personal experience. I've never been an intentional lawbreaker or fighter, but these boys were. They're real deal characters that shaped my view of rural Arkansas. You see, I grew up in the same community as Louis Dale and Charlie, and I was heavily influenced by my father, Gary Newcomb, a small town banker who would come home from work and tell me stories about people he'd met and done business with. At the time, he nor I would know how influential his storytelling would be in my life. It taught me to value people of all types. And he told me stories about Louis Dale and Charlie, but the knowledge of these stories

didn't push me to want to break game laws. It was clear he valued them for other reasons, and he still does. A window into their life gave me a broader picture of the reality of the world, a world that he knew I would have to live in. The intent of exploring this story is to help us evaluate our own biases, to search for hypocrisies, and to see the bigger story that most people have. Humans can't be described in totality by a single descriptor or label. Life is sometimes gray. We don't function well in those gray areas. Lastly, I hope this story fortifies a culture of putting the wildlife resource first by obeying science back to game laws. Being a poacher isn't complex. You either is one or you ain't one. But this story about Louisdale and Charlie

Their life is complex. And I'm not trying to decide whether I'm okay with people being outlaws. I'm trying to make sense of why people love them so much and in the same breath understand how they were such rough characters. A little backstory from episode one, we learned that the Edwards brothers came from a family of moonshiners and their uncle and his kundog were killed by police in a 1926 traffic stop gone bad.

These men were known for killing a lot of turkeys and evading the law with almost a supernatural ease, and they worked hard at everything they did, including outlawed. We learned they were generous and forthright, genuine. Even people used the descriptor of pure. But one thing is for sure.

You didn't want to cross them. Here's Stony Edwards, the son of Charlie. He'll get us going into a string of stories highlighting their rougher side. Get ready for a few rumbles. They were as nice as can be, either one of them. But they didn't have a whole lot of push to them. The fuse was about that long. And as long as everything was going good and you were treating them as well as they would treat you, then you're fine.

But then you get on the bad side and, They were rough fellers. I mean, they didn't believe in, I will call the law on you. They were going to take care of it themselves. Do you remember several years ago the, what was the guy's name? How big old boy are you? Do you remember what I'm talking about? R.D. Mercer.

R.D. Mercer. Well, you know Pete Hillard and Jackie Ryan, they got this great idea to call him Cluedale because they knew that that would stir him up. and I don't remember who they put on the phone. They were going to prank calling. Oh, they did. They got on the phone. Well, we lived over here at the Dillbeck Place at the time, and I was about 20, I guess. And here come Uncle Oudell sliding into the yard.

I mean, he said, y'all get in. We got shit to take care of. Now, you think I'm joking, but when we left the house, every one of us had a gun in her hand. This wasn't going to be no barroom brawl crowd. This was, well, we got down there, and it was Jackie in peace. So Louis Dale, I mean, Louis Dale was ready to, he was ready for a shootout. Whatever it was going to take. Him and Dad both were really hard people, or that's how they came off.

When you grow up like they did, though, it was, you got to have that shell out there. That was their protection. And then when they left here and went to the city, they were dumb people. hillbillies, according to the city people, but they had that shell. Well, everything with them to was a fight. They didn't believe in all the talking stuff. You just got wapped. I mean, I've heard stories of a lot of bar fights. Yeah. If only that phone call could have been recorded. Whatever they said pushed Louis Dell to the edge. These brothers had a stark and temperamental sense of justice. They didn't do well with a lot of talking. Here's Neil Taylor, a good friend of the

brothers. You know, old Louis, there's a lot of people that didn't want to make Louis mad. Hmm. I'm going to tell you what. And you could make him mad pretty easy. Charlie, it was hard to make mad. But Charlie is the one he wanted to watch if he got mad. Why's that? Because he was tougher and meaner than Louis. Everyone I spoke with said the same thing about Charlie. He was tough. Here's Stony. And for a little info, the candlelight is a bar on the edge of Oklahoma.

I was probably six, and he had been over at the candlelight. They were shooting pool, which my dad loved to shoot pool. And he'd won a few games, and he always wore a great big old black leather cowboy hat. I mean, I remember him wearing one until the brim on it was just nubs. And he had sewed it back together himself two or three times. He was over there that night, and a man stood up and said, I bet I can knock that some shit's hat off and he won't do a thing about it. Well, he made about two steps across the floor before Dad hit him with the Q-stick.

And he went down. He was done. A couple of weeks later, they cornered Dad to go, you know, beer to go. and went shooting at him. Well, dad bailed out of the car and off out across the field. These are guys retaliating for what had happened. Well, they run one vehicle up behind him and run another one up and parked in front of the car and opened fire.

Really? Trying to kill him. Yeah. He dad bailed out and he said, I just ran. He said, and I ran hard. He said a couple hours later he was coming back wanting to get back to the car, you know. and he said there was two barbed wire fences. I don't remember jumping either one of them.

Dad got into more of that stuff than Uncle Odell did. Uncle O'Dell was a little, he was just as rough, but he was a little more settled about it. But as far as their heart went, they'd do anything for a friend or for somebody that needed them, but they didn't want everybody to know about it because that would affect that shell that they would, wouldn't be tough guys anymore.

Interesting analysis from Stoney about them developing a hardened shell. It seems the catalyst of this hardness worked both ways. It made them deeply loyal and devoted to friends, and it made them dangerous if you cross them. You all remember Andy Brown. Here he is recalling a story of a bar fight in Texas. If you remember, these brothers worked out of state a fair bit in the city. old Louis Delt tells the story about when they were down there in Dallas at Fort Worth.

He said, got out there one night, said, went to a bar. And he said, we walked in. He said, I ain't been that bar 10 minutes. He said, he said, oh, brooklose back there in the dang pool room. He said, I looked right now. I said, where's Charlie? And he said, he said, he went back there and he said, his old Charlie. He said, man, he's finding a big old boy.

he said. And he said, that old boy had him whooped, he said. And he said about that time, he said, that old boy went to screaming and take it on. And he said, he finally looked. He said, old Charlie was just taking biting plugs out of his side like that, trying to get away from him. Oh, little, I said, yeah, had he walked. He said, he went to biting their plugs out of him. Wow.

I can imagine a few people got surprised by these outwardly unassuming hillbillies. You remember Stoney mentioning Jackie Ryan prank calling Louisdale? Well, this is Jackie telling a story about the brothers. I was doing a job in Dallas, and they went down to a club, and Charlie playing pool, and he got in fat. I mean, they get, you know, it's over money. I'm sure they were probably having a bet. And Charlie, both of them was good pool shooters. But he gets in the fight in there, and there was other people around.

And Louie got out there truck and got his pistol, and I think the fight had moved outside or got outside, and there was people around him. Well, he had that pistol out, and then he was keeping everybody off of them while they was fighting, you know, and making sure nobody got involved, you know. and I think Charlie had used to cue stick on the guy, you know, and there was another part of it where he chomped down on his ear.

I know he did, but Charlie had false taste, and he bit a chunk of the guy's ear. That's what he did. These guys weren't afraid to pull a gun or to bite you. They played by their own rules. Like Andy said, that's just the way it happens. happened. Here's Andy with another one. They were Dallas or Fort Worth putting in drop ceilings for Walmart store.

And anyway, everything was kind of open and anyway, they had some old boys come in there and kind of put in on them. And it was Charlie and Lue Delle and Vernon Rind. Vernon was working with him. This guy was Yianne with Lleud. He was up on a scissor lift. And Vernon said the whole time he's yin, yin and telling Lerner, Louisdale what he's going to do to him. He said Charlie is slipping up on that guy. He said he's got a claw hammer. He said he's got it in his hand. And Vernon, of course, Vernon says he's watching all this and watching Charlie. And he said Charlie walks up behind that guy. He said with a claw

in and he draws back. And Vernon said, I went, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, like that. You know, and that guy saw him. But he said Charlie was fixing him and knock him in the head with that claw hammer. said him but anyway the guy kept telling old louisdell i'm gonna go get get my bunch and i'll be back and louisdell said that's exactly what you guys need to do and he said when that guy walked off louisdell got down off his cissor lift went to his truck and i don't know clay if you've ever heard about the trusty 2535 in these stories he had a rifle that's all he ever deer hunted with and anyway he went and got the 2535 put it on the scissor lift and got back up in the deal it just kept working it just kept working but louisdell

was a great shot. I mean, when you run, when you run deer with dogs, you've got to be. And then boys, they wouldn't do what happened if they'd come back. They never came back. No, they never come back. Thank God. You know, Verna's scared to death. They're going to come back. Yeah, man. Sounds like you wouldn't want to cross these boys. And I'll tell you another thing that would not be advisable would be messing with their dogs. This is a longtime friend of the Edwards brothers, Jerry Dean Pickett. Well, it was deer season, and we had been running the dogs. There's a gap in there.

Dogs went over the gap. We didn't kill the deer, but anyway, the dog, we was checking the dog. He had them old tracking collars on them, and we come around there catching the dogs. And he said, one of my dogs right up here on the, right up here, and we drove up this fellow's house. He got out, and he said, well, my dog's around here, right here close. He said, yeah, you collar over here on my wood pile. he said i killed your dog up there and a yep louis ain't never threatened him he ain't never said

nothing but he just kept walking to him and when he got in hands of him he spadding him and bounced him across him rocks and there's a fellow from texas hunting with this other fellow i don't forget his name and uh louis went working on him and i was standing beating the tar out of him i'm telling you're you're working on him you're here you're watching that i'm standing standing right there and that other fellow standing over here because I knew what was fitting to happen when he said he killed that dog. And I figured the other fella would get in it, but he didn't. Finally, he hollered, oh, holy, he didn't kill your dog. So he stopped.

And he told me, he said, asked him a question. He said, why did you tell me you kill my dog? He never would tell him. So he got his collar. He got off fellow. And he told him, he said, I'm going back to my house. My dog don't come home. I'm coming back over here and finish when I started.

And that's all Louis said. Went on to the house. Sure enough, the dog did come home. So the guy was just messing with Louis Dale. Well, I guess. But Louis Dale wasn't the type that you could mess with. He wasn't going to argue with you. It was just him and Charlie both.

You know, they didn't mind falling down the dirt with you if that's what you want to do. Now, that's the part of them and still trying to put together the pieces. Because they were such. Like you get this one feeling that they were just the nicest guys in the world, which they were. I want to hear how you connect the nicest guy in the world to a guy that'll just fight you in a second. How does that work? Have you ever been in there before people go to arguing and, you know, carrying on? Well, they just wasn't that type.

Charlie wasn't nobody to tangle with. So Charlie was the real tough guy. And Louis was bad. But Charlie got more scrap than Louis did If you're in the beer joint or anywhere And you got to want to argue with him It was just on Well, at 73 years old

He was still laying block Charlie was or Louie down? Really? He was still laying block at 73 years old Yeah, that boy could He was strong How big were they? You know, I knew him when I was a kid It was hard for me.

Louis was about my size Charlie was Five-10 Okay Charlie was a little bit taller than Louis, and they were both solid. Yeah. Their old hands. Now, their own.

Now, their own hands was big. Both of them had big hands. When you shook hands with them, you could feel their power. I find it a healthy practice to peer into a world foreign to your own. I've never been a fighter, nor would I condone violence as a productive means of solving disputes. But I do admire their certainty. To continue on in our study of these brothers, I'm going to read from a newspaper clipping from the 1990 edition of the Mina Star. The headline of this newspaper says, Big Forkman arrested in charge with illegal whiskey steel operation.

A Big Forkman has been released on a $10,000 property bond after being charged with the operation of illegal whiskey steel near the Polk Pike County line. Louis D. Edwards, 40, will be arraigned, most of the time. in Polk County Circuit Court, according to Polk County Sheriff Fred Niblock. Niblock said it is the first steel confiscated in Polk County in approximately 11 years. Officers also confiscated 305 pounds of what is believed to be deer meat, 50 to 75 pounds of what is believed to be turkey meat, along with 52 turkey beards at the house, according to the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission enforcement officers.

Officers found an operational whiskey steel, 165 gallons of fermenting mash and partially filled wooden barrel containing approximately 20 gallons of whiskey at Edwards residence in Big Fork, according to Niblock. Also found were several gallon and half-gallon jars of whiskey. The officers seized a loaded shotgun and several cartons of rifle and shotgun ammunition at the site, along with a 1984 Chevrolet four-wheel drive pickup containing a bottle of what the officers believed to be a legal, whiskey. Also confiscated were sugar, yeast, corn, starter mash, and utensils believed to have been used in the illegal production of whiskey. He had a really nice setup. Do you remember that as a kid?

I wasn't a kid. I was in the United States Army when that happened. Oh, what year was that? 1990. Here's Neil Taylor with what happened in the moonshine raid. There was a guy come over to buy some fish. You know, Louis used to raise cat. fish. Louis had a little steel there in the fish room, and he was just making it for himself and mainly a few of the friends out there, you know. He gave us old boy some. Well, he got drunk and got caught and told him where he got it, you know. So they sent the sheriff from Montgomery County over a pair of camouflage and talking about turkey hunting, Louis, you know, and on the

know if they knew when he place had some well louis gave him a court he gave him short that's good said can i buy some lois and i said i ain't going to sell it to you but he said i'll give you a court of it oh fred neblich he was sheriff in it was re-election and he thought that that would get him re-elected so oh it was kind of a political move well to some extent it was yeah and they were just after louisdell and that you know the game mordons eight was all in it you know oh looly he was there at the house one morning and he's camo overalls and barefooted and all of a sudden the law car started pulling up in the front yard old lew loo went out there and old fred he stepped out and he said what the h's going on fred and uh they was they was kind of afraid going out there you know what

what he might do and he said well look you know we heard you had some uh well that you was making whiskey out here And they said, so? He said, well, are you? They smiled and said, the best whiskey you ever tasted. And so they come in there, and, of course, the game wardens, they had to do their spirit. They'd been after him all his life. And they come in there, and they took meat out of the freezers, and they got turkey beards. He kept through the years.

I don't know. they had him for about $20,000 worth of game violations. They had him to jail. I took him to jail, of course. They came in and they said, they said, we've got you for this, this, this. Now, if you'll plead guilty to this here, we'll drop it down 10,000.

And he says, boys, he said, I'm not going to plead guilty to a thing. And it wound up, but they didn't. I think it cost him about 10 grand on whiskey making. For the record, the idea that the raid was a political move by the sheriff isn't really known for sure, but it was the speculation of many. The moonshine raid also included a game and fish raid. However, all the wildlife violations were dropped. It's unclear to me if it was because of faulty procedure in the raid making the evidence unusable in court, or if they just couldn't prove that all the wildlife was taken illegally.

According to the family, the game and fish had to bring back all the meat and return it to the Edwards freezer. So, according to the law, Louis Dale was innocent of the wildlife violations. On a completely irrelevant and tragic side note, Sheriff Fred Niblock would later become the mayor of Cove, Arkansas. And in 1995, he was murdered by a disgruntled 78-year-old man. upset about an $18 water bill. The story made national news because the murderer had ridden his lawnmower to the city hall and also used it as a getaway vehicle. David Letterman made a joke about the incident on his late night show,

bringing Arkansas into the national spotlight for the eccentric murder. I bet you weren't expecting that. Here's some more of the backstory on Louis Dells' moonshining from Jerry Dean Pickett, that paints a little different light on it. For some info, Mr. Mack was Louis Dell's father who only had one hand. Mr. Mack, he had done his grandpa and his daddy and him all made whiskey, and Mr. Mack had a recipe, and Louis Dale told me all along. He said, you know, I ain't never made no whiskey, but I'd like to make it one time just see if I can.

And so he ended up getting a still, he was making whiskey. He started making it out there and buying his house in that little garage, I call it. He wasn't making it to sell or make a living. He's just making it to see if he could make him and Charlie. I think he'd run about 10 gallons at a time. Did that bother him that he got, that they busts him for that? No. Really, he just, I mean, he had to pay a lot of money, though, didn't he?

Well, he had to get a lawyer up there, Mena, and they had to go to court and all that. But it didn't bother him. He wasn't mad about that. I mean, but Louis never, I never heard him say a harsh word against none of them. He called him. Really? No. So he just was kind of okay with it?

Yeah, he got a. Was he embarrassed about it, you think? Nope. Just kind of like, just another day on Edwards farm. He wanted to see if he could make it, but they wasn't making it to make money. They just, Louis wanted to just, he wanted to see if he could make it. And I've tried several times to get him to give me Max recipe and his, say, oh, Jerry, you don't need daddy's recipe.

It just gets you in trouble. That's all he'd ever be. He wouldn't give you the rest. Until the day he died, he never gave me that recipe. Everybody agrees that Louis Delt never made moonshine again. Last spring, Clay Newcomb and I collaborated with Jason Phelps at Phelps game calls in building each of our own favorite turkey diaphragms called prime cuts. Now, I'm going to tell you, I love mine because it's easy to use.

I'm not going to go, I'm not going to win a turkey calling contest. It's just not going to happen. But when I run this call, I get the sounds that gobblers are looking for. I have a great turkey hunting track record. If you go listen to real turkeys out in the woods, they're not going to win calling contests, right? That's who I listen to. I can make those sounds on my cut. I also hunt with Phelps's cut, and I hunt with Clay's cut because they're all three great cuts.

Check out Prime Cuts at Phelps Game Calls.com. I think you'll be glad you did, and you'll find out that the Steve Ronella cut is an easy-to-use cut for beginning callers who just want to start making good turkey noises and getting action. If you remember on the first episode,

the game warden Jimmy Martin made some statements about how he never caught Louis Delle and Charlie, which was correct, because during his career, nobody ever caught him. However, before Jimmy Martin became a game warden, they were caught for illegal turkey. when they were young. Here's Neil Taylor telling about the brothers getting caught.

Let me go back, let me go back before we was at just a minute ago. I said that Louis never got caught in Charlie. They did get caught one time. When they first started, really, I guess they turkey hunted all their life off and on, but when they really took off serious about it, Louie had no toy yoder, and he'd take that thing where a billy goat couldn't go. you could look at the bodywork on it and tell it but they'd went up this old skid trail

on top of a mountain and they'd go out turkey hunting and they'd kill one but anyhow they caught they had parked down there and walked up the mountain was hid in the brush around a little truck him and Charlie come out and they put the bird under the hood and stuff started getting the truck

and they'd come out and arrested them you know and old Charlie they could nobody tell it like Charlie did He said, after they rode us a ticket, he said, the dumb SOVs ask us for a ride back down the mountain. Louis said, well, sure you give you ride, just crawling the back there. Oh, Charlie, he'd get tickled telling him. He said, Louis started up and backed up and turned around. He said, he looked over at me and he said, Charlie, you better hang on.

he said louis floored that thing and he said we went off of that dad gum mountain on that skid trail and hitting them washed out place and he said you'd look back there in the back and the back and he said they'd all be with her hands and hair stuck up in the air on their back one time he said next time they'd be coming down on her hands and he said he said it's a wonder he and killed him. He said, you know, when they stopped at the bottom, he said, they are so ungrateful. They didn't even think this for giving them right. So they did get caught. And I don't want to take lightly these guys disregard for the law or putting someone in danger. But that doesn't erase for me how interesting this story is. If there was a movie about these guys, which there probably

should be, this would probably be your favorite scene. I'm just trying to figure all this out. Because I don't think any of us would condone such behavior or do it ourselves, but it's no doubt intriguing. Author Mark Bowden in his book, Killing Pablo, gave some insight into the irony of our intrigue with outlaws. Here's a quote from the book, quote, The Ones Immortalized by Hollywood, Al Capone, Bonnie and Clyde, Jesse James, large numbers of average people rooted for them and followed their bloody exploits with some measure of delight. Their acts, however selfish or senseless, were invested with social meaning.

Their crimes and violence were blows struck against distant, oppressive power. Their stealth and cunning in avoiding soldiers and police were celebrated, these being the time-honored tactics of the powerless. Man, that sounds familiar. Endearment to an outlaw is the time-honored tactic of the powerless. We'll hear a lot more about this in later episodes. Here's Tony with some more interesting intel. They got caught again.

So they did get caught. That was the one time they got caught. Oh, Dad got caught another time. He'd been hunting down here. There used to be an old man lived down here named Fred Ferguson. And Dad had went in behind his house that morning, and he killed a good gobbler. And when he come back out, which Fred was about 75 or 80 years old then, he stopped at Fred's and cleaned it and gave Fred the bird.

Well, then Dad went home. Well, I guess the gaming fish had heard him shoot or seen him leave Fred's, and they went in and searched and found that turkey. And told Fred, called Charlie and tell him to come over here and take his ticket, or we're going to take you to jail. And dad got in his truck and drove back over there and got his ticket. Dad told me, he said, that was $345. That average out to less than 30 cents a bird.

Today, if you get caught, the law confiscates vehicles, guns, and all kind of stuff, along with fines that can cripple a man, which we all believe is a good thing. Again, I think Charlie's sentiment clearly shows this was a different era. back then it was just a ticket and a $345 fine. I'll let you do the math on how many turkeys Charlie claimed to kill. This also gives us a one-time glimpse into what these guys did with some of the meat. In this case, Charlie gave it to the elderly landowner. If you remember, the Game Warden didn't think they killed as many turkeys as people believed

because of the unsolved issue about what was done with all the meat. However, one thing every single person agreed on is that they would never waste any meat. Here's Neil giving us some insight on some of what they did with it. You know, I know that a lot of old people, old ladies and stuff, and even if some of the old men, they got too old to get out, Louis would take them deer meat, he'd take them turkey breast. When he gave somebody like that, and to me or you, he might give us a shot. over a set of ribs too.

Yeah. But them old people like that, he took the best cuts to them. He'd take them, if he took them tender on, some of them a woman, he took them a young tenderloin. Or he'd give them a breast.

Yeah. Turkey. When I mentioned to somebody about their ethic around meat, they said, Turkey poachers only take the breasts. Well, I wanted to get to the bottom of this. Here's Jerry Dean.

I've heard it said that he had a really strong ethic. for not wasting meat? He would not hunt nothing, anything, that he didn't eat. They didn't waste nothing. I mean, a lot of these people take the breast out of a turkey and throw the rest of it away. No, no, we take all the dark meat. Really?

So even if he was illegally killed a turkey and was sneaking it out in his pants pockets, he was taking the drumsticks and the thighs and everything? You didn't leave nothing but the gobble. I had another person off the record confirmed to me that they always took the entire turkey and never just breasted it out. I got a question for you. Have you ever breasted out a turkey and not used the thighs and drumsticks? Be honest, because I sure have.

With today's wild game movement, most people are now keeping and using the dark meat on a turkey. Back in the day, I'm telling you they didn't do that. But these boys were doing this long before it was cool. Again, I'm not saying it made poaching right. That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm just saying it's an interesting point. Here's Stony with some more details. We ate everything.

I've had a lot of friends that would go hunting with us and they would sit there and bone out of deer. Well, most of them don't take ribs and they don't take nags. And there's not a lot of meat on ribs or nacks, either one. But when we get home, what we don't eat, eat our dogs do because we've got a cook pot that's as big as this table we'll take ribs we take coon carcasses possum carcasses we don't skin coons in the woods we bring them home skin them out carcass goes in the freezer when we've got enough in there we fill the pot up that pot will feed dogs for about two weeks when they were growing up that's all the dogs ate was there was

farm at town and get dog food stuff. When I was a kid, that pot cooking in the front yard, they'd just build a big pine knot fire under that pot. So they had a really strong thing about not wasting meat. None of it goes to waste. As long as they knew you were taking it to eat, they did not have a problem with it. Here's Stoney talking about the only time they turned somebody else in to the game and fish.

They came from a different era and just had. a mentality about taking more game than they were allotted. Like, why did, why do you think they thought they could do that? Would they have been mad at somebody else if somebody else had been like that? Like if there had been another, another guy, a couple mountains over, that was just as big a big of outlaws them? I seen them turn one person in in my whole life. They called, they went, drove out and called Jim Fish on them.

Really? That was for wasting meat. We were hunting down on South Boundary. Mm-hmm. That was the only year we'd camp down there, and there were some people camped down just below us, and they had four carcasses laying there, and they hadn't even skinned them.

They'd cut the back straps out of them, and the whole rest of the deer, all four deer were laying there. And my uncle drove by that, and he said, that ain't going to fly. And he drove from there to Langley and called Game Fish, and got them up there, and they got rope ticked. interesting stuff these next two stories are just straight up entertaining that continued to paint a picture of who these characters were here's andy brown i don't know he just i'm missing i miss him every day you know i think about everybody's got a louisdell story and you know i've one of the funniest stories of all time probably this if i had this on tape i would i would have been a millionaire because uh back one of the funniest stories of all time probably this if if i had this on tape i would i would have been a millionaire because uh back

I first went to work for the company I worked for, I had insured a house that Louisdale owned over between Big Fork and Oakle. Charlie lived in it with his wife. And so when I insured it, we had a field man, Charles Glewell, he's one of the greatest guys I ever met in my life. And so we pulled up over at Charlies and got out and they had a rock waller dog that you could erode. I mean, he was a monster step on the porch, you know. But I mean, you know, we get by the Rot Waller dog and we go in and I said, Charlie, I said, I said, we need to look at your breaker box. And he, I can't remember what his wife's name was, but she would really nice.

He said, take them in there and show him where the breaker box is. So we walk in this, we walk in this bedroom. And there's this big old cage, I mean a big cage. And the breaker box is over on the wall. anyway, Charlie goes over and looks at it and takes a picture of it. And about that time, this fox squirrel comes running out on this, they've got this tree for the limbs cut. This fox squirrel comes running out there.

And I said, I said, oh, you've got a pet squirrel. And she says, oh, yeah. She says, this thing thinks I'm its mama. And she just reaches over and opens up the cage. That squirrel just hops up on her shoulder. It's sitting there popping his tail like that. And Charlie is standing there. standing about about 18 inches from her.

And Charlie's dressed nice. He's got his tie on and his white shirt and his knit pants. And about that time, Charlie goes, oh, that's a nice squirrel. And about that time, that thing just hops over on Charlie. Oh, man. Oh, Charlie. He just froze. He just stiffened up.

And when she, when she reached to get that squirrel, that squirrel called, Clay, just reined him like a dead snack. And he had those knit pants up. And what it did, he just stiffed up

like that he went he screamed like a wild cat. Anyway, she finally got to squirrel off him of course him knit pants implaus and he like that.

I was out of control. I couldn't even catch my breath. But anyway, that's a funny story. That's a funny story. That's hilarious. So they had a pet fox growing. They had a pet fox.

Oh. He screamed like a wildcat. I'll never in my life forget Andy Belly laughing about this 30 years after it happened. Here's another interesting story about Louis Dale's appreciation of rattlesnakes and the Edwards' brother's choice of footwear. This is Jackie Ryan, the guy that nearly got shot when he prank called Louisdale. We was turkey out one morning coming off the mountain, and I mean, we stepped right. I mean, just we went airborne at all the same time, but a huge rattler, and they rattled right there, and we scattered.

Well, I mean, he said, leave it, be it, don't mess with it. He said he could have been either one of us, you know, and he's told me stories here just not three or four years ago, or five maybe, about one. he was over a turkey out one morning and at daylight and he heard some rustling in the leaves and he said they was a monster one come right up between his legs to him sitting there against a tree is that right that he had sat out on it it was just cold that morning you know it was early spring I'll be done and uh he just didn't never believe in killing rattlesnakes I've seen him a catch one we'd been over fishing on the cost of it and he was out there barefoot

at dark it was just after dark and got him a stick a little forked stick and he caught that thing and got it by the back of the head and put it in the back of the truck and carried it back of where with him or where it bailock i mean i never did know he even killed one so he turned it loose over there yeah yeah yeah after he's so he liked rattlesnakes i like rattlesnakes i like that i like rattlesnakes and he wore tennis shoes i mean when he went to hunting most every time he went he wore tennis shoes Did he really? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

He didn't wear hunting boots? No. Did he not? No, he'd wear tennis shoes all the time. He did about any kind of hunting. He did. He wore tennis shoes. This is new news to me.

He always did. What about crossing creeks and getting wet and all that? He didn't care about that. He weighed right out in and it didn't matter. And just wear wet tennis shoes. And I'm sure cotton socks. He probably didn't. Yeah, I don't remember exactly what socks he wore,

but I know he wore them tennis shoes all time. He did out in Colorado, too. Did he really? Yeah, he'd wear tennis shoes. I don't remember him wearing many boots. He did back years ago. Did he work in boots? I don't think he'd done a whole lot in boots, really.

Really? He didn't even work in leather boots. He wore tennis shoes most of the time. Oh, my, okay. Jackie, you don't know what you've done because this wrecks my philosophy. I have a really strong philosophy on footwear, and you are well inside the bounds. You're wearing a beautiful pair of probably red, wing boots. I don't know if they're red wings. Okay, okay. I got my shnaise on. I don't like to go anywhere

where I don't have a good leather boot on. Me either. Was Louie down wore tibus shoes? Was he ever bit by a snake that you know? Not I know of. I heard Charlie was one time a squirrel hunt and they said he'd squirrel hunt barefooted, you know, because if we could slip around and got bit by a copperhead. But I mean, that's just what they Charlie hunted squirrels barefoot. Oh, yeah. I believe it. And I think they had competitions.

I mean, you know, they was competitive with each other. Yeah. You know, and I think Louis always thought Charlie was better squirrel hunter than he was. Now, maybe not on anything else, but squirrels, I think, you know, he thought Charlie was better squirrel hunter. I wouldn't have been a squirrel in the woods and right near to them. He's the one of them. Louis Dale. a woodsman in the truest sense of the word. He knew the woods like the back of his hand and how to

gain resource from it. He spent more time in the woods in a year than most people would in a lifetime. To hear that he wore tennis shoes kind of puts all our fancy gear into perspective. I had a question for Stoney about some of the deer's uncle and dad killed. Honestly, I was hoping to see some of the racks. I was very surprised at what he said. Did, uh, did you, uh, did you your dad or Louisdale ever kill any i mean i know they did real big bucks oh yeah have you got some of their horns still no you don't have any of their horns uncle odel's got two deer hanging on his wall about four years ago we had been running all morning and we got back to his house and uh i heard two of my dogs three of my dogs they'd been running five hours and i heard them come across the

mountain up there and uncle odal run to the truck and got his gun and uh He said they'll come out at the corral down there. And I said, all right. Well, it's Kraus' 300 yards. Well, we looked up, and here come this buck across the field. And he's coming right straight at us. Well, he got out there and turned broadside. Uncle Hill said, shoot him.

I said, I can't. He's 150, 160 yards that he's out of mine. He's got a 6 millimeter in his hand. I said, you shoot him. And he, boom. He turned a circle there and fell over. And he's a nice, nice 11 point. And I told Uncle Ed, I said, we need to go get that one mounted.

Well, we sat down right there before we even went to the deer because you can still hear the dogs. They was a mile behind him. Oh, my goodness. He can still hear dogs running. I said, they'll be out here in a minute. Let them find him, you know. And directly here you see all three of them coming across the field right up there and circling that deer. And we went ahead and drove out there then.

and I don't know if he was more proud of the deer or the dogs because he sat there petting on them and feeding him liver and you need to put that deer in this gas station Uncle Liddell's got three sets of horns that he's kept his entire life one does bo-kill elk five-by-five elk that buck there and then year before last he killed a nice nine point did they not saw off horns and just keep them in a barn or something yeah but they gave them way over the years

Just gave him away. Yeah. Dad killed a 13 point that had a 23-inch inside spread. And my nephew came from Tulsa and Dad gave him the horns. Wow. And they killed a lot of nice ones over the years. The horns just didn't mean much to them. Didn't mean anything.

They give them away. They give away their deer horns. They just, when we're at deer camp during that week, it's all important. Them big bucks, who killed the biggest buck? When we go home that night, last night of camp, none of it matters anymore. In fact, when we're packing up camp, all you can have them horned if you want them. That was surprising to me that they didn't care about the horns. It doesn't fit the stereotypical ideas we have about, quote, poachers.

But it does fit the character of Louis-Dell and Charlie. I'd sooner give away my truck than a set of whitetail antlers. Does that make me a trophy hunter? Louis Del and Charlie were serious deer hunters, and the only way they cared about killing one is if it was in front of a dog. And for the purpose of the expansion of our worldview, I'll mention this. Dog deer hunters have often been known to think that still hunters, tree stand hunters, guys that hunt over cornpiles and food plots, aren't real sportsmen. They believe it takes more skill and dedication to craft to kill to kill a deer. in front of a dog.

And when you hear their side, it's hard to argue with. The purpose of this is not to incite an argument or debate of whether the doctrine is right or wrong, because there isn't an answer. I've always talked about supporting all legal methods of hunting. Stuff like this teaches me the world is much bigger than my small window into it and my personal preferences in my style of hunting. And I respect the way a man wants to hunt. as long as it's within the boundaries of the law.

What Stoney is about to say is controversial, but he's speaking for his own father and uncle who can no longer speak for themselves, and I think he's got the right to express the mechanics of their mentality. For anybody to hang a poacher stigma on them, I believe it's wrong. According to game laws, they were poaching.

according to our forefathers, they were doing what they were supposed to. I mean, and that's the way they looked at it. If I come into your house and tell you how to eat your corn, you know, you have to have this much butter on it, and you can only have 10 pieces, you're going to tell me to go to hell. When they come into our home, which I'm sorry, these mountains are their home, all of them, not just the land they own, all these mountains are their home. When you come into their home and say, well, here's all these deer, you can only kill this one or this one, but leave all these alone.

They're going to tell you to go to . If you go back far enough, our country is founded on that very principle. Those guys got tired of England telling them what they could and could not have. Well, the people that moved in here weren't very far removed from those people that told England to go to . . . . . so they grew up with that mentality right here in this valley. and it still exists to a point we're more civilized now yeah the need isn't there now

I asked Neil Taylor a question about how the community dealt with these guys killing more than their share how did people perceive that because everybody knew that these were turkeys that you know they were taking way more than their share what was your perception of the way people

in the community handled that? Well, I mean, not everybody knew it. You know, people's way of thinking change from time to time. From when you was a kid, you already see a huge difference in how people thinks and takes different things. Yeah. It's totally different. There was still enough of the old-timers back then that they didn't care.

There was plenty of turkeys for them and everybody else, too. There wasn't there that many turkey hunters back then. Right. I could go out and go hunting and never see a vehicle hardly. Now you go out there and there's four or five vehicles where you've been scouting out on opening morning, you know. A lot of people started coming in from the cities, you know. And there was a few people that didn't like it at all, I mean, you know. You know, what you said about how people's mentalities change over time,

that's a very real thing that's hard to calibrate. Like I think today, I feel like today, even though certainly there's still people that break the law, it's much more common for people to pretty much obey the law. And there's a lot of reasons for that, you know. People are more educated about the science of game management. Well, even if they're ones that back then, to call a game warden you had to go to the house. Now they need, they can take a picture of you and your tags right there. Yeah.

And call right there and follow you, you know. Right. Okay, so yeah, technology has made enforcement easier, which has made people be more apt to obey the law. But I don't think that that's as much as what some people thinks it is. I think it's the mentality of thinking. What Neil's tapping into is 100% true. We have too many examples throughout history of a shifting value system, and it doesn't make what happened before necessarily right. It just helps us make sense of how some stuff happened.

I wanted to ask Stony something, and I had no idea what he would say. What are the things that you would pound the table for your kids or grandkids in terms of the values that they had that you would want them to have? I want my kids to be law-abiding. In this day and time, you go buy a car. Well, if you mess up, the game fish can take that car. Back in their prime when this was going on, game fish didn't have that power.

I mean, you get a fine. All right, we'll pay it and go on. I want my kids to pound the table for their guns, and my boys believe in their guns. And I want them to pound the table for their right to hunt and to hunt the way they want to, be it bows and arrows or guns or black powder or spear checking.

I mean, but I also want them to pound the table for conservation. There's a touch of that bare grease redemption that we've all been looking for inside of that. It's pretty powerful to hear Stony, Charlie's son, say that about conservation. It took this family a little bit longer to get there, but I think the Edwards have shifted their positions in a lot of ways. Here's Jerry Dean.

They may have been some game warden that could have caught him when he was young, but I'd like to seen them because they'd have been tough. They probably some of them sit out there the last 15 years of the life, trying to catch him and he was home eating breakfast. Undoubtedly, the last 15 years of their lives, Louis Dell and Charlie slowed down on violating game loss. Many people said this. It would be a cute bow tie in this story to say,

that they had a change of heart, that they could look back and say that they'd done stuff wrong. But I don't really know if that's true. Perhaps they just simply slowed down physically, or maybe the penalties for game violations increased to the point that they couldn't risk losing at all. We'll never really know. Would it change the way that you feel about them at the end of this story if they'd realize the error of their ways and changed? I guess the game and fish will always know women's outlaw.

Well, I guess a lot of other people have outlaws, too. But the world would be a whole lot better if everybody was like old Louis. That's all I can say about the guy. If I was falling on a rope somewhere, he'd be the one I wanted on the other end of the rope. I want anything. Here's Neil with a very interesting take on Louisdale and Charlie. Well, a lot of people that laugh at this. I find it kind of comical, but it's the truth.

They was kind of modern-day robin-hoods. Tell me what you mean by that. Well, you know, I mean, Robin Hood, he was an outlaw by the government. He would kill the King's game, and he robbed from the rich. I, Louis didn't rob, but in a way he did rob some games, some people might think. But he gave a lot of meat away. Like I said, the old people on fixed-in. comes like that, you know.

And you could always count on him to help you. Yeah. Their kind will never be again. He was pretty much the last of a type of people. And I miss them. Oh, Louie, you know, he was quick to get mad, but he was quick to laugh too, you know. Quick to forgive. Why won't there be other people like them?

Well, it just, it takes the times that they live through will never be again. You know, that's what develops a person, what they are, what they've lived through. Like I said, the mentality and the thoughts of the people that raised them and they grew up around are them. Then people are no more. Man, I don't know what to say. I've had a lot of people that I trust question why I highlighted these men. but I've also had a lot of people that I trust thank me for it. As we come to the close of this biography section of this series,

I'm still conflicted. But I have noted one thing. People that knew these men were much more apt to extend mercy to them. And I'm not saying that mercy means condoning illegal activity. It just means they weren't ready to lock them up. People that never knew these men were much more likely to want justice. I envision some other podcasts

are making a series on some outlaws that I didn't know. Maybe some hillbillies from Alabama that just wore the turkeys out. I have a feeling I might be like how the heck could these guys use their platform to highlight those heathen criminals?

These guys are the biggest threat to the North American model of wildlife conservation I've ever seen. Lock them up. Honestly, I might say that. But I think we're all full of paradoxes. And I think that face-to-face human relationship with other people means all the difference and a whole bunch of stuff. And that's what makes life interesting. One thing is for sure.

We're entertained and intrigued by outlaws for better or worse. And after exploring the fullness of these guys' story, I am still proud to have known these men and I think their story is of great value. Man, thanks so much for listening to Bear Grease. On the next episode, we're going to find out why we love Outlaws. And I don't want to leave you with a nondescript cliffhanger, but I really doubt you're going to want to miss the next episode. Please leave us a review on iTunes and share this podcast with a friend.

We've got our famous Bear Grease hats back in stock at the Meat Eater.com. So check that out too. But hey, now I want to give you some of that bonus material. This is some interesting stuff that I couldn't fit into the main podcast. You guys remember the game warden Jimmy Martin from the first episode who spent his whole career chasing, Louis Del and Charlie. Well, after our interview, I asked him if he remembered the time that he stopped me. He said he had zero recollection of it. so I proceeded to tell him the story.

I do want to tell you about our run-in that you don't remember. Listen to this. I've never told this story publicly. I was 16 years old. Right. And it was a Friday night. Oh, no. And I had a blue-tick cune hound named Thunder, and he got loose.

I heard him way off somewhere, treed, long, like I'll just as far as I can, here somehow I knew he was tree down in this hollow and it was uh it wasn't coon season i want to say it was this summer and i had my coon light that had my pistol attached to the belt all in one deal and and when i i i had to go get the dog and i grabbed my coon belt and i had my pistol on there and my light and i jumped on a four-wheeler and now this is where the story gets interesting I had decided that if there was a coon in the tree, I was going to shoot it. It was a young dog and he's treeed down there.

Right. And it's just like, it's in my heart. I was like, I'm going to shoot this coon. But I wasn't coon hunting. Well, I jump on my dad's four-wheeler and it didn't have lights. No lights on the four-wheeler. So I'm running with a headlamp, my coon lamp, shining, riding a four-wheeler.

Well, to get to the dog, I had to jump out on the high. highway and I was riding it's after dark and I'm riding in the ditch of the highway going down to get to my neighbor's land and he would have known you know it's been a good friend of mine right and I was going to drive down to his driveway and then go into the woods and get the dog well as soon as I get out onto the highway there's one truck coming and it's you oh no and so you see this coon lot coming down the road and you're like what's going on Anyway, I see you turn around, you put on your lights, and I just go, oh, no. And you come over to me and you say, son, what are you doing? And I was, I honestly was just like honest to a fault. I said, sir, I'm coon hunting. And I didn't even have, I mean, I was 16, so I just didn't have the wherewithal to, like, really give you the whole story of what was happening. And I just told you I was coon hunting.

And you said, is it coon season? and I said, I don't think so. And you pulled out your book and you looked through, and you knew it wasn't Coon season, but you looked through and you said, look here, well, it turns out it's not. And you said, well, take off your gun and your light belt and give it to me. And so I gave you my gun on my light belt. Oh, no. There you are with no light.

That's right. And I didn't tell you that. And you said, meet me at the courthouse tomorrow at noon. And so you get in the truck with my light and drive off. And then I've got a four wheel of no lights. And I drive all the way home with no lights. Oh, my goodness. And then I have.

What a jerk. So the next day, I mean, you treated me with complete respect. The next day, I show up at the courthouse and I'm scared to death, you know. And I really didn't break the law on purpose. I mean, I've always been, even since a kid, straight-laced. I mean, I broke laws on accident. And some on purpose that, you know, it's happened. So I meet you at the courthouse and you probably got a little more of the story for me.

And you said, Clay, I was on my way last night to break up a party out at ink at the river down there somewhere. And he said, and here you are, minding your own business, coon hunting. And he said, and you reached in and grabbed the belt and gave it to me and said, just said, go on your way. So you didn't give me a ticket. That's good. So you have no recollection of that. Man, it happened just like that. Oh, man, I was a nervous wreck that night.

Lucky for me, Jimmy showed me mercy. I had another question for Jimmy about Louis Dell and Charlie. Were they the most notorious guys you ever? were chased, I guess, in your time? They would have been in Polk County, but there were lots of others in other counties. Of course, my district was six counties that we worked. So we worked some good ones out of Scott County and Yale County. We had Louis-Dills, but they were in other counties.

The other ones that I ran into and I had to help work on weren't as likable as Charlie and Louis-Dill, if that's a good way to put it. Yeah. The others were just out for what they could get. and if they weren't making money well they just didn't enjoy what they were doing they were just doing it to get even I guess

in these other counties they were getting as much as they could get but Louie down Charlie may have been getting as much as they can get but they you liked them for it you guys remember Uncle Andy from the first podcast he was the 10 year old brother of Carl Edwards that was killed by police he was involved in that shootout here's Jerry Dean So you knew Andy Edwards.

Oh, yeah. Uncle Andy? Yeah. Yeah. Did he have part of his ear shot off? Yes, sir. What part of his ear was shot off? It was a top part of his ear.

I'll be darned. Yeah, me and Andy. He was Uncle Andy's. That's what we called him. Yeah, that's what you call him. Yeah, that's what you call it. Andy and Aunt Ruby. Here's another interesting clip from Jerry Dean about Louis Dell's character.

Charlie was a fine fellow, but he wasn't worried about material things. Louis had the best business mind of, and he'd done well with his job. And he treated everybody that worked for the way he wanted to be treated. I mean, you wasn't out nothing when he worked for Louis Edward, and he paid good money. He took care of his workers. He took care of everybody. Yeah, Louis was a fine fellow, and most people thought he's an outlaw. But if you ever had anybody you wanted as your friend, he'd be the man to pick.

I had heart surgery 10 years ago. Louis told me, and most people don't know it, but he told me, he said, don't worry about nothing. You need anything? You know, I pay for it. I'm here, and he offered to pay my bills. Really? Yeah, he was that tight.

But let me tell you something. Money didn't mean nothing to him. That's why he could be so generous, you feel like, because money didn't. Well, he wasn't a multimillionaire, but I guess you'd say he made money. Money didn't make him. You understand?

Yeah. He's really something everybody ought to met, him and my daddy. Finest two fellas I ever met. Here's Jerry on Louisdale as a dog man. Louie Dale would have been just an all-around woodsman. Correct. Tell me about the kind of dogs he had. Oh, man.

Like what types of dogs? He had squirrel dogs. He had squirrel dogs, deer dog, coon dog. I mad. Hog dogs. Hog dogs. Louis probably had, at one time, he probably had 20 dogs. He still had good squirrel dog when he passed away.

He kept dogs all his life. He's a dog man. Here's Jerry on Louis Dale's willingness to take people hunting. We'll probably learn on a later episode how willing he was to even entertain undercover officers, too. No doubt Louis Dell and Charlie shared their passion for turkey hunting with anyone that wanted to go. Some of the turkey hunters wouldn't even tell you where they're going to go turkey hunting if they heard of turkey. Louis would tell you say go right over or there's one there. He'd tell anybody where the turkeys are there.

You know, he wasn't no type to be stingy about anything. He'd take them. People that never had even turkey hunting, he'd take them, put them out there and let them kill one. Yeah. And most turkey owners ain't that way. Yeah, exactly. And that's another thing about Louis. There's a lot of young boys like John now

that Louis L. has taught how to turkey hunt. And it just wasn't his family. You know, he was anybody that wanted to come. He'd teach you what he could. Thanks so much for listening, guys. We'll check in with you next week on the Bear Grease Render. On blood trails, the stories don't end when the hunt is over. They just get darker.

I've seen something in the road. I instantly thought it was a sleeping bag. And there was a full of blood. Oh my God, he doesn't have a hit. Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors. Where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce, and the truth gets buried under brush and silence. Indications were he should be right there. But he wasn't.

This season, we're going deeper. from cold case files to whispered suspicions, from remote mountains to frozen backwards. Each story begins in the wilderness and ends in darkness. Because out here, there are no witnesses, no cameras, just fragments and the people left behind trying to piece them back together. He's not an honest person. He's incapable of being honest. Somebody somewhere knows something. I'm Jordan Sillers. Season two of Blood Trails premieres April 16th.

Follow now on Apple, Iheart, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.