Bear Grease - Ep. 63: Bear Grease [Render] - The Bear Grease Hall of Fame and Streaks of Luck

Episode Date: July 20, 2022

On this episode of the Bear Grease Render, Clay opens the floor up so that Josh can finally spread the good news about Fly Fishing. Misty reminisces about the time Josh's mom saved Clay's life. Isaac tries out cowboy boots. Gary, dressed for golf, pontificates on his friend's streak of hole in ones. And you're not going to want to miss Clay's brand new song featuring Brent on the bear's femur & dutch oven. By the end, you might not know if you're lucky or deserving, but you sure will enjoy the show. Connect with Clay and MeatEater Clay on Instagram MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and Youtube Shop Bear Grease MerchSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. First Lights fieldware collection is made for the work that happens long before opening day and continues when the season ends. Products built for early mornings, full days in real use. Hard wearing where they need to be versatile where it matters. No shortcuts. Just gear designed for the work that earns the season.

Built to perform, built to last. Check out. First Light's new field. Worldware Gear at firstlight.com. My name is Clay Newcomb, and this is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual Bear Grease podcast. Presented by FHF Gear, American-made, purpose-built, hunting and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. I think fly fishing is real pretty to watch.

Fly fishing is captivating. It is. You guys are missing out. It is really pretty to watch. I feel like you're a liar. It's really, Nukum. Yeah, it's beautiful. Because I can't tell you how many times I've heard you say,

you know what I'm really drawn to is people who have a passion for something, have an identity. And I talk about fly fishing all the time on this show, and you just blow over it like is not even a thing. Right. Wrong passion. Apparently, you're attracted to people who have passion that you like. It's really cute when people like fly fishing.

fishing. I think it's really cute. Yeah, whatever. That's why people say they can't do it, Josh. No, no, no, no, Josh. No, I respect your passionate for fly fishing. Absolutely. Does that mean that I want to talk about it all the time? I should.

I want to hear you talk about it. I'll let you talk about fly fishing as much as you want. In my car, driving home from the render. What would you say about fly fishing? I would tell you all about it. Let's just say you had the floor. Yes. What would you say?

I would talk about, first of all, the places that fly fishing takes you is one of the things that I like the best about it. I like that. The beautiful locations, environments that you get to, okay. One of the things that I love about fly fishing is, especially trout fishing, is being in cold water. Yeah. When it's 100 degrees and you're standing in 48 degree water, it's like you are tasting the extremes at one time. You do it in a long sleep. It's amazing. I like the idea. It's amazing. And then watching, I mean, ideally, a nice dry fly cat. where it lands out there so delicately. Yeah.

And then seeing a monster brown trout just go up there and slurp that thing in there. And you react and set the hook. And that fish just goes crazy. But you're usually fighting that fish on a very fine tackle. So you know the fights on for at least 10 minutes. Oh, really? Can be with a big one. I mean, it's a thrilling feeling.

That was a thrilling, moving, compelling. Yeah. How much more time to have? You can have the whole podcast. Hey, welcome to the Bear Grease podcast. Welcome to the Bear Greas podcast. You just heard the poetic voice of Josh Lambridge Spillmaker. Never been accused of that.

Good to have you, Josh. Thank you for coming. Thank you. To my last, Brent Reeves. Always looking sharp. Those look like fresh overalls. Yeah, these are good. Pretty fresh.

And that new knife. Oh, he cut his paint. He cut them. Oh, man. With that new knife with that new meteor knife. Oh, did you really? Yeah, I think it is sharp. Mm.

Right there. Just barely touched it. Just like a thing. Like a scalpel? Like a dry fly. loading across the White River. If it would have hit it any harder, it would take half my leg on the thing short. I'll be darned.

To your left, Isaac Neal, producer, assistant producer of the Bear Gries podcast. Assistant to the regional producer. I commented on Isaac's attire when he walked in. I was really proud of him. He really looks like a redneck. I just got, I got so ashamed and embarrassed of... Your foot gear? No, the tattoos.

I had to cover them. I scheduled a laser tattoo removal. I forgot you didn't have to. tattoos. Just to paint a picture, I got some nice boot cut jeans on, a pair of cowboy boots. Yeah. And how would you describe your shirt? A camo hat.

This is like a... It's vague Hawaiian. It's kind of... Vague Hawaiian, that's good, Brin. It's kind of in the vein of like Willie Nelson, kind of redneck, kind of hippie. Yeah, yeah. And then Isaac's got hair down to his navel. To Isaac's left. You don't have to exaggerate.

To Isaac's left, my lovely wife, Misty Newcomb. Hello. Misty, thank you for joining us. Thanks so much, Clay. It's so great to be here.

It's really a big deal. I don't know if you all realize what a big deal is to have Misty. This is a very busy woman. I mean, she's like scheduling these things in, like negotiating with other people about this time. Do you have her people, your people call her people? I don't even talk to her. I talk to her people.

But it's like, what's great is we live in this like isolated world of social media where you're a big deal, right? And she's your wife, but like in the real world where things actually happen. You're Misty Newcomb's husband. Hey, we were trying to film a little short clip. Just depends on what context you're in.

Making gravy. And there's people knocking on the door and Clay's looking at the window. There's a delivery truck out here. I wonder what that is. They leave and we start filming again. And Isaac's like, here comes another truck. Another guy. There's a bigger delivery truck.

Clay says, we got to take a break. I got to find Misty. I don't know what's going on here. Turns out there was a wedding at her. There was a wedding. coming. So, Misty, thank you for taking time out of your schedule. And then Gary Newcomb, whose schedule is just wide open since about 2012.

Correct. And good to have you, Dad. Hey, thank you. Thanks for coming up. Yeah. Enjoy it. Gary Newcomb is the most preppy dressed of us all. Looks like he's going golfing.

I mean, it's, you know, a little embarrassing, but it's all right. That he's going golfing? Or that he's better dressed? All the above. All of the above. I'm kidding, Dad. He's a Renaissance man. He's a renaissance man. Yeah. So, great, man. And then, who else? That's us. That's all. All right. I got to go first. Because it's a fly fishing? Yeah, that was just like a little bonus deal. We're going to cut that out. So, I was it cut out. Circle back to Josh. And Josh. In case it gets cut out, Josh Landbridge. Hey, I was in the Pacific Northwest this last week, and people were, they started talking about the land bridge that people walked, like, you know, that.

They said, you know, they theorize it's the first. Anyway, and I was like, oh, I know all about the land bridge. My friend's mustache looks like. Do you know that I was born in the Pacific Northwest also? I knew you had some ties there. I actually was trying to figure that out. Seattle, Washington. I didn't know that.

Almost accidentally. You're raised in Michigan. Which more? So I assume you're of European descent, just based upon what I know about you. Did your family come over the land bridge? Just went backwards from most patterns of migration of Europeans? I actually had a shattering life moment a couple months ago. My mom got suckered into one of those 23 and me kind of things.

And I found out that my German heritage came in through Canada. Really? They immigrated to Canada and then moved into Michigan. Interesting. We've got some pretty fun family stories surrounding 23 and me. I mean, really, scandals. It's pretty fun. Hey, not to steal the vibe of having.

fun. Take it away. But Josh and I are really good friends and have been for decades. Josh, tell them a little bit about your dad. So my mom and dad got married in 19 and 75. And my dad was 19. My mom was 22. And just a couple months after my parents got married, they were very happily married. My dad had a framing crew. And he'd come home and he'd say, man, I'm really tired. And this was in Michigan. And he'd come home, fall asleep in the bathtub. I mean, just at 19, 20 years old. Well, he went to the doctor and found out... And your mom was like, what's... Yeah, what's going on?

It seems like, you know, you're in the prime of your life. They did some blood work and found out that he had some very, like, extremely low hemoglobin levels. Come to find out, he had a very rare disease called aplastic anemia. And the only cure was a bone marrow transplant, which was... There were two research centers in the United States that were doing research on bone marrow transplants, one of which was in Seattle. Okay. And so my parents actually, they called and said,

If you want a bone marrow transplant, be here on Monday. And it was a Friday. Really? So my parents literally packed up in two days and moved to Seattle. And my dad had experimental chemotherapy and a bone marrow transplant. His sister was a donor. And right after his, I was born while they were there, three weeks later, we left and went back to Michigan. And my dad got home, and one of the things he loved to do was water ski.

And he just begged my mom. He said, man, I feel really good. I really want to go water ski. And she said, I don't want you to do. So he's 20 years old. He decides to do it. Catches a cold. What a plastic anemia does is it destroys your, you can't produce white blood cells anymore. So you have a very compromised immune system. And he caught a cold. It turned in pneumonia. Ended up in the hospital. The doctor said the family needs to come down here and say your goodbyes. A couple days later, he's better. And he seemed to make a rebound there. A couple weeks later, he got sick, turned to pneumonia. same scenario. Come down, say your goodbyes. He's not going to make it. And my mom actually, I found some, going through some old stuff from my dad, I actually found a journal of my mom's. And my mom prayed and she said, Lord, by my anniversary, make me a widow or make me a wife. Either heal him or take him,

because this up and down is too much for me. And he actually passed away four days before their first anniversary. Wow. And so I was raised by a single mom until I was almost 12. And, but I tell you what, I have tremendous. We've talked about my mom on this podcast before. She's an incredible woman. She really is. Strong, determined, hardworking. I learned an incredible work ethic from my mom. The hostess with the mostest. And man, it's shaped who I am to this day. And I'm real grateful for what my mom invested in me as a child. Awesome. I've always loved that story. You know, I was really impacted and I don't want to jump ahead too fast, but I was really impacted by Mark Kenyon's story about his lucky streak. Oh, yeah. About how he, you know, killed the deer, got the job. and then met us and and got together with this wife yeah tell you what that's a pretty good

how does that connect to you this what you're talking about i'm just talking about the um having a having a godly woman in your life and a good strong woman man is a pretty awesome thing yeah those are the things that really matter yeah yeah well okay now we know a little bit more about Josh boy and i like the flyfish and he likes to flyfish it turns out this episode's all about Josh is it is it Appropriate to talk about the time Deb Summers saved your life? Oh, wow. Yeah. I mean, is that taking it too far off the rails? I guess we might as well. Did save your life. Yep. I get a call one time. She raised Josh and saved my life once. I don't even remember what happened, but we were at the spill maker, Josh and Christy and I were together. Clay was...

Well, do you want me to tell how I got there? I definitely wanted you to tell this story. Okay. That's why I started to tell the story. I was hoping he would take it away from me. I was going to the Jasper Elk Festival. I was going to the Jasper Elk Festival and probably like... Jasper, Arkansas. 2010 or something. And I was man in a booth for the Arkansas Black Bear Association, which was an organization that I ran and everything.

And man, I woke up real early. Had to be over there about like seven. It's like a two or three hour drive. And just woke up real early. Went over there. And on the way there, I remember where I was at. I could take you on the road there before you get to Jasper. When I looked out the window and could see this big vista

that I remember just thinking, I feel absolutely terrible. Like it was just like, I just was like, I feel like I'm about to die. But I committed to be here and I was just like, I'm going to go.

So I went. And I get to the Jasper Alk Festival and set up my little booth, get everything set up. The pop-up tent. Yeah, and just, and about, you know, 830 people start showing up.

I'm standing out in the middle of the road. They have the square blocked off. I'm standing out in the middle of the road, talking to some friends that I knew from Russellville, Arkansas. And they were a real sweet couple, and they hadn't seen me in a long time. I had just greeted him. Just like, hey, hadn't seen you guys a long time. I gave him a hug.

And I'm talking to him. And I just go, I feel absolutely terrible. And the next thing I know is nothing. Gravity. So pause. I went down. And so Connie calls me. Ambul.

And well, okay. And then. And I'm. with us. This is an important piece of the story. Connie calls me. I've never met Connie. And Connie calls me. She gets my phone and she says, what's your wife's name? Uh-huh. So I've never met her. She calls me, though. And I'm with Josh and Christy. And they said, hey, that's right over there by where, where Deb. But that story's not over yet. I know. I know. That's why I'm trying to tell it. Settle there.

And Clay, they want to take him to the hospital and he won't, he doesn't want to go. They're like wiping me down. And I go, I come to him. I go. I come to him. I'm okay, I'm okay. I just give me back to my booth. And so I stand up and they're like, whoa, whoa. And everybody's like grabbing to me. I'm like, I'm okay, I'm okay. Don't worry, it's okay.

And I say, I'm just going to walk back to the booth and sit down. And so I go to walking through this big crowd of people. And I mean, just next thing I know, I'm in an ambulance. I hit the ground again. And that is when Connie called you. So, okay, so that's when Connie calls me. Two times fell in the street. Two times passed out.

Josh and Christy are with me. They get on the phone while I'm on the phone with Deb. They call Deb, who is about 15 minutes away. I don't know how it happened, but in my, the way I remember it, I am on the phone with Clay. I'm the same interchange. Connie gets the phone to Clay, and I'm saying, Clay, let them take you to the hospital. I'm in an ambulance. He's in an ambulance and he won't go to the hospital.

And I don't know what's going on except for Clay just passed out two times. And all of a sudden, the crowd parts, like the Red Sea. And the crowd parts. And Deb Summers has figured out a way to get, this Josh's mom, has figured out a way to get her car in the no parking zone and has gotten the entire crowd moved. In my mind, Deb picked, I don't, I wasn't there, right? So I don't remember it. But in my mind, I can hear Deb picking up, like showing up. Like a baby bird.

In like 60 seconds, showing up, parting the crowd, getting her car parked illegally, picking clay up like a groom would pick up his bride. That's how I had to. Took him to his house. It was kind of like that. When I got to the house, he was like, how far away is it from this? It was probably 30 minutes. When I got to the house, Deb had, I mean, Clay was eating.

He was, he had like a feast in front of him and was laying velvet. All his favorite movies on VHS. It was hilarious. Popcicles. Yes, the whole nine yards. And that is classic Deb. And to this day. What she did is they took, they put me in an ambulance and they're like, sir,

we're going to take you the hospital. And I was like, I will not consent. to go to the hospital. I'm not going to the hospital. We didn't have health insurance. They're self-employed. Yeah. I was like, I'm not going to the hospital.

And they're like, sir, are you sure? And they made me sign this paper before I got out of the ambulance. So I got out of the ambulance and I was like, I'm going to walk to my booth. I get to my booth and sit down and everybody's like checking all me and stuff. And then Deb walks up and she doesn't even say hi. She just goes, Clay Newcomb, you get in my van right now. She stuck her figure out. That's what I remember her saying.

You said, Clay Newcomb, you get in my van right now. And I just said, yes, ma'am. And I went and got in. She opened up the side door of the minivan, and she had stuff in there, like cold cars and food and drinks. Therapy. She was like, lean that chair back, and you sit there. And so we went to her house and just had a great afternoon.

It turns out I had ehrlichiosis. Do you know what that is? It's the most common tick-borne illness in this part of Arkansas. Yeah, my dog's getting. Brought over by the working dogs from Vietnam. They got it in the jungles of Asia, Gary Nukkah. You may have brought it back. You may have mailed it over.

For all we know. Do you have any ticks on you when you came back from Vietnam? I had a few. So all the service dogs that came in from Vietnam, most of them were channeled through Fort Chaffee. And they brought these dogs back. and if you look at a heat map of ehrlichiosis, somebody will fact check me on this and they'll learn that I'm right.

If you look at a heat map of erliciosis in the United States of America, there's like a sun spot about 100 miles in the direction from Fort Chaffey, Fort Smith, Arkansas. Really? Yeah, and that's what they say. That's what I was told by a veterinarian

who I believe was telling true. Public service announcement, if you have flu-like symptoms in the summer and you are outdoors a lot, You should, it took forever to get an accurate diagnosis of what was going on. And once we did, I mean, we were able to move forward. But that, that was a tough summer. Clay was, I mean, sick, sick, sick.

It was bad. I mean, like, couldn't stand up without passing out type of bad sickness. They gave you antibiotics. Yeah, it's just standard treatment. But pretty much Rocky Mountain spotted fever, Lyme's disease, or lyciosis, and now alpha, alpha-gal. Al-Mogal. It's the worst. They're big ones.

Yeah, it's bad news, man. Bad news. I had Rocky Mountain spotted fever. Okay. A guy walked in my office, and he, his friend of mine, he just started telling a story about getting a tick-related disease and how he felt. He just went on. One, two, three, four, five things happened.

Then I got up, got in my car, drove to the clinic, went in. They gave me this, this, and this. And so, I mean, like, three days later. one happens, two happens, three happens, I think, okay, I'm going to the clinic. Like not until after he told you about it? Yeah, I mean, it was just like luck, bad luck, which we're going to talk about that. Oh, nice segue, Gary. Was it good luck that he came into your office?

Yeah, yeah, because I might have laid a day or two thinking, you know. And 25 years ago, people didn't pay as much attention to tick-borne illness as they do now. I think there was a time period when doctors were just like letting people die for having tick-borne illness. Well, it's a specific, it's a specific test they got a test for. Because my brother had it. And when he was finally diagnosed, I came in from Missouri turkey hunting one year. He's like, man, I feel like terrible. You know, I feel like I've been eaten by a coyote and crapped off a cliff.

It's terrible. And he says, you get. Does the summers come by? He said, no, I wish you had. He said, you sound like you got it, man, you need to go. And they did that specific test. And sure enough, that's what I had was like what Gary had, Rocky Mountain spotted fever. and it was tetracycline for breakfast and suffer for a week or two,

and then it was gone. Clay got, we got an accurate diagnosis because someone he was with, and in the woods he was doing work with, and that guy got a diagnosis. And that's when we called the doctor and said, is it possible that this is what he's in with. And it was like game changer,

but for, I don't know how long he would have, I mean, it was really bad. Do you get cured with medicine, or is it just? I think it just kind of dies down. I think you... Well, I think it's different for some... You might test positive.

Because I hear about people with Lyme's disease, and that seems like a little... That longer term. Yeah. It was a much longer term than what you had. So, I think this is a good point to get into what I really wanted to talk about today, which is a pretty serious... It was a pretty unique time for the Bear Gris podcast

because we're going to institute a... We're going to institute something. that has been in my heart for a long time, and I believe that this will persist through time and be really important. We're going to institute the Bear Grease Hall of Fame. Oh. An official Bear Grease Hall of Fame.

And I'm going to get a plaque of some sort made. And like, you know how you can make plaques that have room for more little... Oh, yeah. And you put the tags. They have a name. Yeah. So you make you get a big plaque. You get a big plaque and it starts off with just small things.

So here's what, we've got some business, like actual business to take care of. And that is to talk about and basically I'm going to pronounce who is already in the Bear Grease Hall of Fame. And then we're going to vote. Oh, yeah. But then we're going to vote on someone. Okay. Are you all with me?

Yeah. So I think that it is a given of who would be. And I want to get your, your, so I'm going to make. make a list of people and basically I'm going to ask for your your yay or your nay and they will be officially put into the Berger's Hall of Fame. Agreed. What do you call it if you do something from before? Retroactive?

I think you're thinking. Grandfathered in. Postchumously. Put that lodge castor and skillet right here, if you don't mind. And by the way, it's called a perpetual plaque, not an everlasting plaque. Perpetual plaque. Okay. Thank you.

Okay, let me see that bone. That's a big bear. Okay, I would like to officially make the proposal to the group that we induct, number one. Is this an order of importance? Nope. Nope. Just what we've done before. So from here on out, if we have someone that's eligible, we'll induct them like right after, like right when we, it's apparent.

Got it. You see what I'm saying? So I would like to nominate for induction into the Bear Grays Hall of Fame, Daniel Boone Second Hold on We're going to do this in one group I always want to do that

Daniel Boone Yeah can I get a Can I get a second Another one? That'd be a third Okay Daniel Boone Warner Glenn We're doing them all at once

Roy Clark So it's all or none That's right This is a batch Roy Clark James Lawrence I'm in George McGeoff

Juncker. Yes. And Frederick Gerstocker. Whoa. Definitely. That's a big list. I'm on board. Okay, so Frederick Gerstocker would have been in.

You want to vote or what? All in favor say aye. Aye. All the nays say nay. It's official. So let it be written. Daniel Boone, Warner Glenn, Boyne Clark, James Lawrence, and Frederick

Gerstalker, and George McJunkin. Yep. Are now officially in. the Bear Greas Hall of Fame from here on out. How often will new inductees be made? There's no, there's no schedule. But what I want to do right now is I would like to nominate. So this is how we'll usually do it.

Okay. Point of clarification. Yes. Do the living inductees get a benefit like a gift certificate to Golden Corral or something? They should. Okay. We'll table it. Yeah.

Revis it at the next render. Great. Okay. Okay, I would like to nominate for the Bear Grease Hall of Fame, Orally Province. Oh. I feel like there's some, there's some, I feel like an inductee into the Bear Grease Hall of Fame has characteristics that would be evident and seen by all, but often intangible and indescribable. Because it's not one thing that these men did. It is connected to character.

It's connected to longevity. It's connected to connection to the land. It's connected to grit. It's connected to humility. You don't come banging on the lodge, cast iron skillet, asking to be in the Hall of Fame. These men didn't ask to be in Hall of Fame. That would be distasteful.

So I feel like... They have to embody the values of the Bear Grease podcast. I feel like Orly Province, I mean, just the guy, he's there. Are there any public commentary in support? Would anybody like to make a speech in support of this? Yeah, I think he embodies everything that a lot of people aspire to be. He did something great. And you'd never know it unless you ask.

Yeah. And then it was probably like pulling. teeth. You know, it wasn't like he went into some big, long, elaborate story about how he killed that deer. He'd just slip along the bluff looking down there and there he would. That's right. I second. Second from Brent Reeves. All right. All in favor. Say aye. Aye. All opposed. All opposed. Say nay. Nay. Just kidding. What just happened? Just kidding. You can recant that. Yep. Okay. O'Reley Province is now inducted into the Bear Greas Hall of Fame.

So now there's seven inductees. Here, here. So we'll just start from there. So we'll write that down. Yeah, we'll get it written down. So to dive into... Where are you going to put this plaque? There's no room in here.

Yeah. We're running low in wall space. Yeah, yeah. We're running low. We'll find a place. We'll find a place. Excellent. Well, I think that to start off our conversation about,

about this podcast called the unusual white-tail streak of Orly Province, we need to sing our song. So we, lucky for you guys, we have an original ballad written about Orally Province that I'd like to sing.

I'd like to ask Josh and Misty to accompany me on it. So I wrote this song just this week. I just felt inspired to write a song about Orii Province. because I like the guy so much. So this is what I came up with. Misty Newcomb on the banjo,

Josh on the guitar, Grant Reeves on the lodge cast iron skillet with a fair bone on the eve of the Great Depression in June of 1927 High on the mountain he was born Shuck and Cornishues were worn and his mama more

Became a man at age 16 when his daddy died the family cried and his brothers went to war Province was an Ozark man Fried dear meat in the cast iron pan Love the fiddle and Bill Monroe Skid and logs, October fall the thunder roll In 1946, got a good horse, no remorse, cutting cross ties. 35 cents apiece, we'll starve a man, callous his hands, but he loved the land. Working in the temper, he longed for the cold days of November.

Back to the chorus. Everybody. Orie Province was an Ozark man. Fried deer meat in a cast iron pan. That's right. Love the fiddle and Bill Monroe. Skidding logs, oak timber fall, the thunder rolled. In 1965, the north wind blew, the storm clouds grew, and the beast hunkered again the bluffs.

That's right. Before he came a slip, when the shot rang out, a great buck went to tripping. He went and got Eugene They found 28 points That would hang a wedding ring That's a good line But that wouldn't be the last When not two weeks it passed

His muzzle sang another blast Back to the chorus everybody Ory Province was an Ozark man Come on Isaac Right dear meaning to cast our pan Love the fiddle and be Phil Monroe, skinn' logs of September fall, the thunder roll.

Last verse. Some would say it's luck, but I would say, well, Shucks, he's a bluff hunting man. He saw a drock-tine buck, shot nine times, blurred the lines, and the big buck fell. He carried 18 points, Acorn fed, limestone, fred, and an Ozark legend was more.

Oh, oh, all right. That was a gooder. All right. Yeah, that's good. Last spring, Clay Newcomb and I collaborated

with Jason Phelps at Phelps game calls in building each of our own favorite turkey diaphragms called Prime Cuts. Now, I'm going to tell you, I love mine because it's easy to use. I'm not going to go, I'm not going to win a turkey calling contest. It's just not going to happen.

But when I run this call, I get the sounds that gobblers are looking for. I have a great turkey hunting track record. If you go listen to real turkeys out in the woods, they're not going to win calling contests, right? That's who I listen to. I can make those sounds on my cut. I also hunt with Phelps's cut,

and I hunt with Clay's cut because they're all three great cuts. Check out Prime Cuts at Phelpsgamecalls.com. I think you'll be glad you did, and you'll find out that the Steve Rinell a cut is an easy to use cut for beginning callers who just want to start making good turkey noises and getting action.

Hey, just for the world to know, I recognize that I'm not a great singer, so, but I just, the passion's just too strong to keep it all there. Make a joyful noise. I just got to let her go. So, yeah, the ballad of an Ozark

man. There's some good lyrics in there, man. It tells the story. tells a story. It should tell a story. A word promise was an Ozark man. A good song. A good song should play a little movie in your head when you're listening to it. Yes, that should.

My favorite verse is he went and got Eugene. And they found 28 points that would hang a wedding ring. I like it. Because the deer actually only officially scored 26 points, 26 scoreable points. But by hanging a wedding ring on it, it'll score. it would score 28 because that's what Ori Province always said. He called it a 28 point buck.

Now the difference is Boone and Crockett recognizes anything over one inch. One inch. Well, but listen to this. Uh-huh, okay. This is where it gets deep and gets real and gets there quick. Is that I, and this is getting serious quick too. Uh-oh. The dream that I had in 2007 and the picture is right over on that wall.

Yeah. I'll put the picture on Instagram. I had a dream that I killed a 24. point buck with a bow. And that year, I killed a buck that by Boone and Crocket standards had 21 points. Yeah. But by hanging a ring, it has 24 points. And you just have to deal with that if you don't believe it.

Do you feel like God is not Boone and Crocket certified? Is that what you're saying? It's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying, these are the facts. These are the facts. What did y'all think of the Orly province? I love it. What'd you love about it, Misty? Well, I think that I love this story because I remember when it happened, you took Shep with you on that, on that trip. And I think from, I mean,

probably the reason I loved it is a little different than the reason all the hunters are, but it's, it's like a personal connection to the story and what that, that produced. How old was Shep when you took them? He was a little. He was squeaky boy's a little. He was 11. I think he was 11 years old. Was he only 11? I mean, it was in 2019. I mean, I know almost the exact date. It was March of 2019. He looks so little in that picture. Yeah, a lot happens from 11 to 14 though. Yeah. Well, he's he's I remember that year at school they were learning about World War II and they said something about about when it ended and Shep Brate knew

immediately he was like 45 I think and he and he was like I know it ended. He argued with someone about when it ended but he knew the story because of sitting in that room. He was just sitting in the room and to me I just thought this is a great way like what a wonderful tradition to hear oral history and that it made you know it really demonstrated the value of oral history and of having young people make connections with older people and hear their stories because it helps them piece together the world because like you said at the end time moves faster than you realize and that chef will have you know that history in his life and he'll be able to tell that history to a generation you know lord willan a generation

that is a lot has the same spread in terms of on the other end than him. And that's how we know our people. That's how we know our stories. That's how we know our history. I just think it's so valuable. And that was such a special experience for our family. Yeah. Yeah.

Right. Right. Yeah. Misty, I totally agree with you. There's something that I've always, since I was little, I was fortunate enough to know all my great grandparents on my mother's side. and one of my great-grandfathers emigrated from Europe, and he would tell me he was 17 in 1915,

and he would tell me stories of when he came to the U.S. through Ellis Island. Oh, I thought he came through the Lambridge. And I remember how impacting those stories were and listening to Mr. Ory, it had that same flavor, and it's like you latch onto those things, and, you know, the simplicity with which he lived his life. And, you know, I was thinking about, as he was talking in my mind, the phrase, simplicity is stability, you know, to think about, they had nothing. Yeah.

But they were stable, you know, and there's a stability that comes with a simple life that Mr. Ori was able to communicate. And, yeah, just a beautiful, it's a beautiful thing to listen to that oral history. Yeah. Yeah. My grandfather was born in 1913 on my mama's side. he told me the difference in the depression was that they didn't know they was in one until they everybody shouted hooray we're out of it and they're like well this is like last Wednesday so they were eating what they grew what they hunted you know what they raised and everything

and it just wasn't know the the bank was you know in a kitchen cabinet where they if they got money for selling something hides or furs or vegetables or whatever you know they They put it in a can in a coffee can in the cabinet. Yeah. Other than that, you know, they didn't know what was going on. And it's very similar to what I loved when he said, we had plenty to eat. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, everybody did. Yeah. I may have been, you know, in my grandfather's case, you know, they was catching possums and rendering them out. I mean, feeding them out and then eating them. Yeah. But it was also whatever. But he said, oh, we had plenty to eat. Yeah.

Like, that was silly. Yeah, yeah. It was almost like he was like, that's a dumb question. Yeah, it was a non-event. Dad, what did you think about it? Well, he reminded me of Roy. Was it Roy Clark from Tennessee? Yeah.

You know, I kept taking both of their lives and kind of like going, they're so similar, you know, and the way they talk. I mean, I just love that dialect. It's just, it's just beautiful to listen to. And, of course, he had a simple life, but to kill what he killed in basically a week or two, you know, it's just, it's just pretty phenomenal. Yeah. And so I spent my whole time thinking about luck.

What is luck? I mean, you know, so I kind of focused on what did you think? The underlying behind it. What do I think about? Yeah, take us into your thoughts on that. Well, I don't think it's luck, man. I mean, I think I've got a friend. I called him before I got up here.

I got a friend that's hit 13 hole in ones on a golf course. 13. Jimmy Sears, you know Jimmy. I called Jimmy. I said, Jimmy, was it nine? How many? He said, it's 13. And I said, did you have any streaks where you did two or three in a row?

He said, no, I never did more than one in a year. Of course, he's my age. at the same age. So he'd been playing golf a lot of years. And so I said, well, you play 220 times a year. There's usually an average of four par threes on an 18-hole course. I first said, Jimmy, you had 600 shots a year at a hole in one. With a par three?

Yeah. And he said, no. You're saying only a par three. Yeah, I mean, you're not going to get a hole in one on a par four or par five. Gotcha. He said, no, there's like four. he said, I had about 400, 800 shots a year to make those. And his good buddy, who's also a good buddy in mine, is not that good of a golfer.

And he said, he's had one or two just blind luck, you know. He's not a good golfer. And he's still because he played a lot. But Jimmy plays 220 times a year. So, I mean, if he wasn't good, he probably would have had three or four holding ones. But he's one of the top senior golfers in state of Arkansas. Yeah. In my opinion.

I remember. So, related to, relate it to Ori. So, so, Ory, he's in the woods a lot. He's good with his gun. Holy cow, shooting a running bub. You've got to be kidding me. Nine times. He must have had an AR-15.

I mean, I would have a rifle back then was shooting, had nine rounds on them. I don't know how he loaded. That's just what he told me. You know, I would have never probably shot at the deer. and going, wow, what a buck, you know, I mean, so he had the, where with Alda? I mean, back in the day you had to shoot it because you couldn't take a picture of it with your iPhone. So where Jimmy's really good with a club and a ball, you know, or he's good with a gun, he knows how to hunt, he's in the woods a lot, he's doing all this stuff. He created his own look.

Now, once that, that opportunity, that's the key thing, is opportunity. He had, he saw an opportunity. He took advantage of the opportunity, and he was skilled and ready. I mean, he, I would never have hit the deer. I would have been in a panic. I wouldn't have even had time to, I mean, you know what I'm saying? There's an old saying in golf, and I've seen it attributed to 15 different people. But the more you practice, the luckier you'll get.

Yeah, yeah, I know you've heard that. Which means the more you do something, I mean, just the better chance. You put yourself in the right spot. So to me, you know, what I came up with, And a lot of this, I don't know, it's not original thinking probably, but, you know, luck is kind of like the definition. You, I heard you say the definition of luck. It's almost like a little story I read where a guy said he was in New York City, and he was 60 years old, he had a business, he wanted to sell it.

And he heard a guy say, Mr. Buffett. And this guy goes, Ching, Ching, Ching. Buffett, New York City. And he said, I walked over, and I said, are you Warren Buffett? And the guy said, yeah. He said, I've got a business I'm trying to sell. I think you'd like to hear the deal. Eventually, he sells, he sells the guy, Warren Buffett, this business.

I mean, so that was luck. He heard the name. He just happened to be the, there was no skill involved in him being standing that. He had the wherewithal to say, here's an opportunity. I'll never have it again. And he took advantage of it. And the capacity to pitch something. Yeah.

And he had the building. And he had a product, you know, that was really, really good, you know. So there was a little luck that that deer came by. I mean, no question, but still, he was there. He was equipped. He was ready. He took advantage of it. No doubt.

I'm going to play devil's advocate. Okay. I'm going to completely disagree with Kerry because I think that could be said if Ori Province had killed those deer when he was 60. But according to when he said he was born, he was 28 years old. He was 38. 38 years old. How many years have you hunted?

Well, you know. I mean, you're in the woods. You're in the woods a lot. You're in the woods a lot, right? How many 180? I mean, I'm 42. How many 180 inch deer have you? And, I mean, you're hunting the same territory, and our deer numbers are greater than what they were back then.

Right. So there had to be something, because, I mean, there are skilled hunters that we know who hunt hard, who won't ever even see a deer that big. That was the only part of it that if you were making a case to an unbiased jury not from this planet that didn't understand luck or anything. As you would say, this man was very prepared. He was very diligent. He was very skilled. He'd put in his time. But the size of these deer was wild,

especially when you understand age structures of white tails. Because let's just say those were six and a half year old deer, five and a half year old deer, which is the old deer. The chance of, that could have translated into just like a nice eight point. I mean, I think one of the oldest deer ever killed is about a hundred. 115 inch 8 point over there with big old heavy bases and he was just a brute and just I felt like he was an old deer but he just had like a little little scrubby set of horns and the fact that twice he killed an older age class deer that carried that kind of stuff what that's what

was wild now if he'd just because I tried to make this analogy inside the podcast was that that year he may killed two five and a half year old deer that were 135 inch eight points which would have been more common gary i agree with what josh is saying except for one thing or he was looking for a deer yeah you know the guy that sold his business to warn buffett just heard the name buffett i mean you know if he had just been walking around with his gun just looking and go oh there's a big deer you He was looking for deer. So I more agree with you than some of the stuff I'm saying. But the fact was he was looking for that deer.

I would ask the guy if his name was Jimmy. I think the question isn't. That would be your response to you. Are you Jimmy? I think the question isn't, was it luck? I think the greater question is what is luck. Right. You know what I mean?

Because clearly there was some kind of favor there. The question, I used to. the term luck. Isaac and I talked about this before. I use the, I don't really, I might use the term luck just so people understand what I'm talking about. I really don't believe in luck. I mean, I use that term because

we all can identify. When I say luck, you're like, oh, I know what you're talking about. But that was my, the whole point of my thing is what is luck. And is there, because I tried to make it clear, is that there's, when you root it down, to the very foundational position,

there's a split in the road when you start to define luck in its origin. And one is this naturalistic approach that it's just chance, and then the other one would be a supernatural why in the road of there's something outside of this place orchestrating things to happen to people that are beyond their control for a specific reason.

I mean, that is by definition providence. Okay. That's the difference between Providence and luck. Really? Okay. Do you have the definition of Providence? I wouldn't even really have caught that. I take Isaac so much more serious with this outfit on.

Well, that's a tattoo. Jim shorts and the protective care of a God or of nature as a spiritual power, God or nature is providing protective or spiritual care, timely preparation for future eventualities. Okay. Providence. Yeah. So, okay, so really, that's what I was. That's what we were talking about.

It was luck or providence. Yeah. Not province. And his last name was... But also, you're introducing... That's why the title works. Now, Clay gets it. Province or Providence.

Now he wishes he would have gone with it and paid attention. Well, I didn't text it back until like 7 p.m., which is after the deadline anyway. Isaac always has like really deep, catchy titles for stuff that I don't get for like a minute or two. And then it's after the deadline? Well, it's after I immediately respond back, I don't get it. And then I realize it's really good. There's two styles. It's either that or just like empirically bad.

And you go like, not that, but that inspired the actual type. I'm not a median guy. I'm like one extreme or the other. But I think you're talking, you kind of actually got three things. You don't just have luck and providence. You've also got this real strong. And Gary's bringing that in. and several of your, the guys who talked are bringing that in.

Also, merit. Merit. That this is just, there's luck. Totally strikes me as a false dichotomy. Yeah, there's three different things that you're really examining here. Was this luck? Was this the- You don't think we should go back and just erase the podcast? No, but it's under.

It's okay. We could make it look like an accident. Where's episode 62? Our account got hacked. I'm kidding. Go ahead. Luck, providence. or is this a result of hard work?

Total justification. Because of his hard work, he was there. And so it was merit. And I think that that is the narrative that fits best inside of the American psyche. That's kind of more how we think about the world. Like he paid his dues and so he had this one coming. Because of his hard work, this happened.

That's our rugged individualistic value system. Is that people get what they reap what they sow. and he did good things and he's reaping the benefit of it. And so that's this third thing over here. And I think what you're talking about with like that buck right there, the biggest one you ever killed, you know, that was not merit. There was something way more to it than that.

And so you're seeing it through that lens. And I think there's other cultures who would definitely not ever think that they would never put merit. in there as a piece of the this is why this happened. They would always see it as prominence. But I think D, all of the above.

Yeah, it's fundamentally both because if you had that dream but you had never shot a bow Right. Like that's nothing, right? Pause, would he have had the dream if he never shot a bow? Oh, no. Oh, God. We got a real, um,

dead gummet. We got a real Schrodinger's buck over here. Oh, man, Isaac. know what that means. Hold on there, cowboy boots. I put on my cowboy boots and all of a sudden I've got a million-dollar words. No, but seriously, like a great example is like if Ori Province was born 20 years earlier,

like what stuck at what, like neon words when you were interviewing, he's like, I walk 20, 25 miles a day. You guys, you ever walk 20 or 25 miles a day regularly? Like, I can do that, but it is brutal. And so it's like he fundamentally put in some work, right? Yeah. But if he was born 20 years earlier, it wouldn't have mattered if he walked 20 or 25 miles a day because there were no deer.

Literally no deer. It wouldn't have mattered to lick. And so, like, I cannot separate the two. I think that there's providence. Yeah, I don't subscribe to the idea of blind luck. But I wouldn't, that's not a mountain I'd die on. I think there's providence, and then I think there's merit. And I think that he had both of those things going.

And that's kind of what I was saying when I said, sometimes people want to just grab hold of one thing or the other. Yeah. Just like, yeah. It's all chance. Yeah.

It's all chance. There's nothing but chance in the universe. Yeah. Or someone say the other side of it, which would be like every minuscule thing. The Brent's chair just squeaked because, you know. X, Y, and C. Yeah, yeah. So it's like, have every deer that I've killed have I felt like it was like life-changing,

monumental? It wasn't much of it. That was Brent's chair. No. Did that deer? change of my life? Yeah. There's no one on this earth

that will ever convince me otherwise. It really did. Yeah. And so was that deer important? Was that deer did something from another place? Yeah.

I think we need to talk about that deer a little bit more. Sure. I think we need to talk about, especially if you're going to put the picture on Instagram, there's some side text on the picture. Yeah, there's a note on there. That we probably need to explain.

And I will say, when you brought that deer back, Ava, Josh's youngest daughter was here. Oh yeah, Josh's daughter was here. She would have been a little. They were tiny babies. They were big old fat cheek babies.

And we've got pictures of both of those two. Bear and Ava standing over it. They were in their PJs. And their little fat cheeks are just sitting there smiling at it, not having any idea. 2007. What it represented. All right, give us the story.

Wait a minute. On the deer. He kind of told you on that. You were going to say. Well, I was just saying, I mean, I think that that, you know, you're kind of bringing that in. And I thought the way you brought that in at the end was sort of underwhelming. It was kind of a big, huge deal. I thought, I mean, maybe it's because of the impact it's had on us, but I thought it was a little bit.

Like I didn't do a good job? I'm not saying you didn't do a good job. I didn't want to make it into the Clay Newcomb story. I didn't want to make, but I wanted to throw it out there like, this is a job that happens to people. And you drew it out. And you put a note on there. In July, I think it says July 2007, I'll look at it. And I saw the buck and I woke up and I drew pictures of it.

And the buck that I drew has really long curved brow tines. It's got a bur point and it's got kickers. And if you look at that buck and look at the buck I killed, they look a lot of like. And I wrote a note on the sketch. I said, do not throw away Misty. Was there a comma there? Well, there is no comma, so he is talking. She's the direct object.

I knew what would happen is I drew it, and then I didn't really have a place to put the sketch or at the time I didn't. And so I just knew it was just going to be like laying around like on my bedstand. Clay would write down incredibly important phone numbers, our confirmation numbers, and just set them down and then be like, why did you throw that away? And it's like, it was literally on this piece of torn up. Yeah. And so, anyway, I framed the sketch.

and then there's a cut out, there's a picture of the deer in this little frame. And writing about that is one of the things that jump started your... Oh, it's the only thing. I never even thought about writing an article or going into the outdoor industry at all. It's killed a big deer. And I was like, man, it'd be pretty cool to write a story about it. Because there was an angle that I had on the story from a tactical sense. I actually really used a lot.

I mean, I hunted the deer 15 mornings. the time i could only hunt in the morning and so i hunted i hunted mornings the only time the only days i didn't hunt was i went down to your deer camp dad so i killed the deer on october the 18th i spent three mornings at your deer camp so fifth basically 15 straight mornings i hunted for that deer and uh and killed him on the 18th and this was before we had trail cameras and stuff so i had i had seen the deer with my own eyes one time yeah spot and ended up hunting there and i i rattled him in on a balmy, windy, like, 72-degree morning on October 18th. But you had the dream when?

July of 2007, killed it in October in 2007. And the thing is, it's like, you know, like, you can say, I'm not trying to make the dichotomy here, but like, to illustrate the point that it's both is like you hundred fifteen straight mornings. Right. You know what I mean? Like, you didn't go out October 1st and like plug it and go. Yeah. Yeah, no, that was some work involved. Dad.

Did you, I know, I think I know the answer to this, but did you ever see that deer or, you know. Yeah, at the time I had. Could that have related to your dream at all? Oh, well, I videoed the deer in late August. But you didn't see it in July. Before the dream. No, no, no, no. No, no.

The dream. I never knew the deer was alive until two months after the dream. The antlers wouldn't have looked like that in July of 2007. Well, you're right. And the next thing is... The first time I saw the deer was... Actually, the first time I saw that deer was like September the 8th or 9th of 2007.

So let's get the timeline. I think it's helpful for listeners. July, you have the dream. August. I remember waking up and it was a big right morning and I was going out to get hot. That's all I remember. I was going to work.

Yeah. August. So that's not helpful for the timeline. I'm just relating to what I see in my mind. I remember waking up. Just a little color commentary. We just need yes or no, sir. Just bare details just for the listeners to have a clear.

Deer details. All right. So, yeah. All right, so July you have the dream. See these two hands? I used to work with these two hands. July you have the dream. Now I write songs.

August, you see the deer. Does the deer look like the deer you saw in the dream in August? Oh, I never made the connection. Okay. you kill the deer I never made the connection until like long after I even killed the deer Like it wasn't like I was like That's impressive in other ways

It wasn't I don't think that's a compliment I'm just kidding I mean I don't remember how long Yeah But I mean it wasn't like I shot the deer and I was like There's the deer in the dream Like it was sometime after I was like

Man I drew a picture Yeah I mean it was that You know like I almost didn't draw the picture. It wasn't like I was like, I'm going to kill a deer this year. Yeah. It was just like I had a dream.

It was really clear, vivid, impacting. You felt like it was significant when you woke up. Yeah, yeah. I remember more about the dream I could tell. I remember more about the dream, do. Yeah. Because I remember you talking to me about it. Because I was like, watch this.

Misty, don't throw away. But. Don't throw away Misty. So it was sometime after that I realized it. But I think that's your next song title. Don't throw away Misty. Don't throw away Misty. I'd like to hear that.

That's a good ballad right there. The ballad of the... I call that book Dagger. Yeah. Hey, I got something to say about what Mo Shepard was saying, about getting loaded up and going over to see it. Like, I'm not here to say, like, technology is the downfall of human civilization or whatever,

but, like, it made me, like, it immediately took me to the float and tote in El Dorado Springs, Missouri, where we'd go check in our deer. And everybody'd go post up there. Floating tote. The floating tote. You'd pull in in your truck and... All of a sudden, everybody'd come over, start looking over the bed.

You just couldn't, if you got anything halfway decent, you couldn't wait to get down there. And just talk about it and see what everybody had going on. So you were saying Mo's dad would have just looked on Facebook. Yeah. Rather than Gonda, or Rory's house. Yeah. Ori would have texted him and said, hey, killed a big deer. Congrats.

There's just something magical about, like, being there in person, like, that community connection of, like, going over and seeing it. and feeling proud about it. Yeah. Isaac's describing social capital. Social capital is what I was describing. I mean, what he's talking about is the networks that people form and how those create identity. They create resources. When economists look at the world and they look at human capital, they look at economic resources to evaluate nations, to evaluate communities.

But these social scientists came up with this other term in the mid-the-late 90s called social capital. and it's how people are connected to each other. And they, I mean, it actually came up earlier than that, but it got popularized in the mid-90s. But that those connections actually provide a resource to that community that is as valuable as the economic connections. And they look at this in terms of marriage. They look at this in terms of voting patterns, the way they evaluate, whether there's social capital in a community. And it's been in pretty much steady decline since the middle part. Okay. I mean, that's fascinating. That nails it with what Isaac's saying.

Social capital is like having gold coins. Social media is like using credit cards. No, no, social media is like those chocolate gold coins. Exactly. Well, okay, there's something there. A little hit a dopamine. I never saw Ori Province without a pair of overalls on that didn't make it in the song. I tried to find overalls. Oh, that didn't happen. I felt it.

You felt his overalls? Yeah, I felt like this man was. Yeah, for real. Like, I don't know that he was like Brent. What kind of footwear did he wear? I bet it wouldn't crocs. That's a good question. Tivas, he was a Tiva man.

He was more of a Chaco's guy. You know, I saw him just wear kind of like just brown leather lace-up boots. Yeah. I couldn't tell you the brand. Here's another question on the front of social media. I feel like because today it's so prevalent, I had this like incongruence. in my mind of like only wanting to shoot big deer because I want to post them on social media so I can get validation in that way right and so like shooting big deer is tied to my self-worth

and so like feeling weird inside to grow your hair out I'm looking for social validation or external validation in any way but like this idea like when I listened to it it didn't sound like there was some disappointment that he peaked early as a hunter or something like that It's like the end goal was not like killing the biggest deer, but it was just going and killing deer and enjoying being in the woods and enjoying hunting. And like when I listen to that, I go like, man, that's really cool to have like killed two arguably world-class deer in the span of two weeks early on in your hunting career. Yeah. And not to like carry resentment or a grudge about like.

Yeah, they didn't. They were meat hunting. They liked killing big deer. Sure. But like he would have killed a basket rack eight point just as fast as he would have killed one of those other deer. And I think that would have been really common back in that period of time. James Lawrence killed his biggest deer in the 60s, wasn't it? Yeah, the first deer he ever killed.

So, you know, you look at that and there weren't as many hunters. Yep. those big deer were out there because they weren't getting hunted as much. Yep. And, you know, Larson's family, they were hunting over here where the deer sign was. And James was going where the uneducated guy would go. Yeah. He was doing stupid stuff.

He kills this huge buck. And a lot of times you'll see stories where a little kid, this 12-year-old kids killed a hundred and 90-point buck, you know, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the reason that happened is because his uncles said, hey, little kid don't know what he's doing. Put him down there where old junior used to sit for years and never saw a deer.

Let's get the good stands for us guys that know how to kill them. Well, they send him down there. Guess what? Yeah. He kills the big buck because the big bucks don't run where I hunt. I guarantee you, I know they don't. I don't want to kill a big buck. You got to sit.

It's too hard. I mean, I want to sit where a bunch of activities going on. Well, like, tying right into that, like, they just, and tying into luck, they just had, what was the guy's name, Dustin Huff? Was that his name on the Meteor podcast? Yeah. And they got down a rabbit hole of talking about how many people killed Big Deer the first time they sit somewhere. He killed the record for, is it America?

United States. It's the United States. Biggest typical. And it was the first time he'd sat in that stand. And it was just like, oh, I guess that makes sense. that educated buck is going to get wise to that. The second step to that that you never hear is that no one else is sitting that stand either in a long time. Yeah.

So that buck is there because if you're smart, you don't hunt there. You're going to hunt a scrape or rub over here. And that buck is smart and says, I know where the people go. I'm going to be over here. Well, hey, I talked with the whitetail deer biologist for the state of Arkansas to get some of the data on that reintroduction of deer. And I spoke with him. And he said the same thing.

He said in the 1960s, there were actually more deer in the 1960s than probably I thought there would have been. 30 deer per square miles is actually a decent amount of deer. And in some places, there were 30 deer per square mile, maybe not that deep in the mountains where or he was at because it's just rough, full canopy stuff. But he said the same thing.

He said, there just weren't a lot of people out there hunting. And so there were bucks that were getting old. And so, yeah, there's something to be said there. And I guarantee you, and I haven't looked at the weathering patterns during that time, but I have followed the Mountain Man Big Buck contest for about 20 plus years. And on years like this year, I guarantee you probably. I guarantee you probably.

It's possible. Highly likely. 100% guarantee you that the deer are going to be of less quality on a really dry drought a year because the nutrition of these animals coming into the summer. The nutrition they have. But antler growth is also connected to how they did last fall. there's a lot of things connected to antler growth. Connected to the mom's nutrition

when the deer was in the womb. Yeah, it's connected to a lot of stuff. But it is seasonal. Like on a dry year, usually a mountain man, usually there's like one deer that might net Boone and Crocket. And that's a four-county area

in northwest Arkansas, maybe one, two-deer net Boon & Crocket. The year that I killed my Big Buck in 2007, proud of you. There were, Thank you. There were two deer that netted Boone and Crocket.

Yeah. That hung on the wall because I took my buck to the Mountain Man Big Buck contest. Yeah, you did. Of course I did. Absolutely. Yeah. In 1960, those deer weren't near as smart as they are now. Right, not as much pressure.

I mean, you know, these deer just said, okay, I'm going to walk below this buff, bluff. You know, this is a cool way to walk. Well, they're not going to do that today. And if you go to those same mountains. That's the way deer talked. You know, if you go to the same area, you're probably not going to find that big a buck in there. Right. That deer would have gotten, if he were living in the last 10 years.

He got killed when he was two. Yeah, he got killed when he was about three or four years old, you know what I mean? So there's a lot of people that hunting that part of the world now, for sure. Yeah. So luck, you know, I still don't really understand the luck part, but he was a little lucky. Well, and he was good. Mo Shepherd, who is today one of the best deer hunters I know for that part of the world, just big woods, deep, public land hunting.

And Mo's never killed 170, 180-inch deer. And he's killed a lot of deer and a lot of old deer. And that is just luck of the draw on, like, Mo is hunting as big and old a deer as there are out there and killing them. and they usually have about 130, 140 inch racks. You know, the odd one's going to be up in the 150s. And that's just pretty standard. And there are these outliers that do happen. And, yeah, that's pretty unique.

Pretty unique. But I think what I was getting at is that our understanding of how the world works influences our decisions. You know, but I do believe that we, We bank on street, whatever you want to call it, I'm going to call it luck just because we bank on unmerited favor coming to us. We do. I mean, and actually, the human, I thought about this since the podcast, let's erase this podcast and do it again, Isaac.

I think it's a good podcast. Listen, the human metabolism is built upon the potential for fortuitary. it is streaks of luck. We literally are designed to gorge ourselves at times and our body store fat for when the next day

and the day after that and the day after that we can't find a fruit tree full of fruit or we don't make a kill. And that's the reason that the majority of Americans are obese is because we get lucky every day when it comes to food in 2020. Good streak of luck.

Do you see what I'm saying? I know exactly what you're saying. Sometimes it's like, how do we, how do we, we're just not designed to have a gourmet meal every single meal of every single day of our life. We're built to have some good fortune at times and some lean times at times. It all kind of evens out in the end. Here's another interesting thing that I thought of while Tony Peterson was talking about is this idea of placebos. Because he was talking about psyching yourself up. Yeah, that was a good point. fundamentally. A placebo has a measurable effect, which is crazy for everybody who doesn't know a

placebo is like a, man, those cowboy boots just changed his life. He's like the smartest guy in the room. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. They changed your lives. I've been the same guy the whole time. The leg tattoo guy I knew before. I've been the same guy the whole time. You just were casting aspersions on me because of my appearance. I don't even know where this is. A placebo is, is a placebo is, like a I don't know how to define it. It's a control.

Yeah, it's a control. And so, like, it has a measurable effect. So you can be given a non-medication

and it makes you better potentially. Given a sugar pill instead of actual medication. And what's even... And you get better. And you get better still.

And what's crazier than that is, it is also a measurable effect if you know it's a placebo. Even if you know. Mind boggling. I don't know what the degree it is, but it's just like the human brain has, or the human body

or the human spirit or whatever. whatever it is has an amazing ability to impact real outcomes. That's good. It's good, Isaac. One day you may run this podcast. I did it this year. I did it this year. I posted on social media, felt cute, might kill a big deer later.

What did I do? Kill the big one. 30 minutes later, I killed a gross 161. That's a big, point. One day they may do a story about your street. One day they may induct me into the bear green. Barger's Hall of Fame. Yeah.

Wait, is Clay getting inducted? He's got a lot of years of proven character to. I thought it was interesting. Like, when I go, like, hunting or if I go fishing and I, like, there's this sense of catching a big fish. I always try to think, well, I'm not going to catch big fish today. Oh, yes. Or I'm not going to kill a deer today. Managing expectations.

Yeah, there's almost this sense of if I do, it's this bonus. Yeah. I'm going to have a good time. If I don't, I won't be disappointed. Yeah, man, I never stepped to the plate. I don't think I ain't fissing it out of the park. Really? Really?

Every time. I'm very much more. Just one crash of expectation after another. I'm always hitting homeless, Jack. High expectations and high results. Yeah, I'm definitely in the Josh Spielmaker camp of mitigating expectations. You've heard of the Casey Shreve says that my epit, what is it called on your gravestone? Epitaph.

We'll be managed expectations. Wow. Excellent. Well, I really enjoyed this podcast. And for people that would have been following along on the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast, they would have heard the full interview. So actually, it would be like a bonus episode

if you wanted to hear the unedited, full version. I talked to Mr. Ori for an hour and a half. Yeah. So on this podcast, there was 21 minutes. So there's actually a lot more. And it's good, too. It's just, it's totally unedited. So it's us like talking about the weather, us, you know, kind of doing stuff.

But it was good. There was a lot on it. His wife came on and talked and told how she puts up corn and how she cooks deer meat. And she told about her grandchildren. You know, my favorite parts of these podcasts, my favorite part of that whole episode was the very beginning, well, close to the beginning when you hear the screen door open yeah and mr ori goes hey clay how are you doing and i talked to him and then his wife comes in and she says oh excuse the house i just was going to vacuum yeah i didn't want to do it and then you could add a sandwich off the floor yeah well it just it just

it just kind of i don't know if you've been there you just know those people yeah and it uh it kind of tells the story and uh it uh it kind of tells the story and uh he was a relic of a man. And I continue to be amazing, and tried to make the point on the podcast that every generation has a touch point with a much older generation that they think are like the real deal.

Yeah. When I look at Ori Province and Louan Nukem, my grandfather, and guys that aren't here anymore, I'm like, man, they were the real old-timers. Like when I look at Dad, like, Dad's not an old-timer. I mean, like, you know, to me, you're 75. And it's, but it's because we're 74.

Come on, okay. Because we're pretty close in age. Give them the year. But to my kids, they'll talk about their granddad and be like, golly, he was born in like 1773, you know. But the, uh, my point is, is that everybody, I actually talked to Brooks Blevins about this one time. The Ozark historian, academic guy, Dr. Brooks Blevins, and he said every single generation has for a period of time the oldest possible people that they could interact with, and those guys

always have something very different in a very different life experience than you, and so they're really intriguing. But there was a time when Ori Province was like on the pop culture cutting edge of time when he was 18 years old. And the old timers to him were born in the 1830s. That was my point inside of that. It's kind of mind-boggling. And Daniel Boone, Daniel Boone would have one time just been like the dude driving down the road, driving a, you know,

2019 Chevy Silverado four-wheel drive with a couple mules in the back, you know. He just would have been like a normal guy. Yeah. And he would have interacted with people. Normal people don't have... Normally people carry around mules in the back. With a stock trailer in the back, no trailer, that's where I'm headed. Point being, you can't imagine Daniel Boone looking back in history of going, man, the old timers.

But he was just like us. Yeah. Just like us. Daniel Boone was like two people back, three people back. I mean, he's not that far. Lincoln is not that far back from us, really. Right. You know, you go back to Jesus Christ.

20 people. I mean, I figured it before. When you were a kid, we probably talked about it. Yeah. You know, you just go back. I had an old buddy that was in his 90s, and I'm thinking, okay, he's born here. You know, if he knew somebody back, you know, and you just start tumbling that back. And, I mean, it's really Lincoln and I are about the same age, you know?

Yeah. You get the thinking about it. In a big picture. Yeah. For real. The last widow of a Civil War veteran died in 2020. What? What?

Yeah. At 101, she got married when she was young and he was old, and then she lived to 101. Wow. But then you pipe and smoke it. Isaac's one day going to run Bear Greas. They know because she was still drawing his pension, which was like $7 or something like that. Wow. Confederate dollars?

Man, I hope not. I'm just trying to figure. It was a crypto. I don't. I don't buy it. You don't buy one. Come on, Isaac. Yep.

Don't doubt Isaac, Neil. So what year did they get married? No, I read that. She at age 17 married 93-year-old widower James Boland. Pause. Oh, she was digging for that money.

She married him not during the Civil War. She married him. She was a Civil War veteran. We call her a gold digger. That's fascinating. We need to do a podcast. In 2020? 2020. December 16th.

Wow. Marshfield, Missouri. Are you serious? That's where my horse's from. No way. That's right by Springfield. That's unfortunate that there weren't some conversations there. Look. Wow.

That was a great place to end. There's a new tattoo right there. Queen of Marshfield. Would you be interested in getting a back tattoo of the Bear Grays Hall of Fame members? Oh. There's our perpetual plaque. You have to come in here shirtless Yeah, I'll take it under consideration

Every time Every time we add someone to it He has to be a tattoo What have you got the tattoos And I was like, man, Isaac, You're fired Yeah, we might be a longer contract Would you have to have something removed

To put it on there? No, no, no, no, I got plenty of real estate I think he should maybe legs You know They're full, Misty Well, I mean, he could remove stuff Back to the legs You know, just keep

That way you can just keep added up Like one list? Yeah. One list. It could be small. You could have it drawn like a scroll. Yeah. That would be awesome.

And I could be holding it like this. Yeah. Full size. You should get a life-size tattoo. Okay, guys. Fantastic. I love, there's some podcasts that just hit home for me. This one did.

I liked it. Aside from all the whitetel tactic stuff we talked about, which I mean, the main part that really hit home was the Ori stuff. But having Mark Kenyon and Tony Peterson, those guys are good, man. They really are. They're colleagues in mine at Meteor hunted with them. They're really good. And I did mention that this fall, you'll get to see me and Mark Kenyon hunting public land in Arkansas,

big mountain country on a backcountry mule-type hunt, which is pretty cool. Because that's kind of the way, I mean, it's, you know, same part of the world, or he was in. And so, yeah, you can check that out. Cool. Dad, closing thoughts? It just very interesting. Enjoyed it. I'm still looking for some luck to come my way.

Still waiting on that street. Well, that's all. Keep the wild place is wild. First Lights Fieldware collection is made for the work that happens long before opening day and continues when the season ends. Products built for early mornings, full days in real use. Hard wearing where they need. to be versatile where it matters. No shortcuts. Just gear designed for the work that earns the season.

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