Bear Grease - Ep. 7: Bear Grease [Render] - MeatEater South

Episode Date: June 23, 2021

On this episode, we introduce you to a new weekly podcast called Bear Grease [Render], where we dissect and distill the documentary-style Bear Grease Podcast. You’ll meet a cast of people, some of whom you’ll be familiar with if you listen to our podcast. This week, Clay is joined by Brent Reaves, Dr. Dan Rupp, Dr. Malachi Nichols, Josh Spielmaker and Gary Newcomb. These guys have an enlightening conversation about the Bear Grease Podcast.  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. First Lights fieldware collection is made for the work that happens long before opening day and continues when the season ends. Products built for early mornings, full days and real use. Hard wearing where they need to be versatile where it matters. No shortcuts. Just gear designed for the work that earns the season.

Built to perform, built to last. Check out. First Light's new field. Worldware gear at firstlight.com. My name is Clay Newcomb, and this is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual Bear Grease podcast. We're going weekly, guys, and I want to explain this very clearly. The Bear Grease podcast is a documentary-style podcast that we release every other week.

we are now going to start releasing on this same stream on the bear grease podcast, what we call the bear grease render. So every other week you will hear a conversation between me and my buddies where we do just what we said, render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual bear grease podcast. So you're going to be hearing from us weekly from now on. It's been years since I've worked on it. gotten pretty bad.

Did you have a decent Alhut? Years ago, I started to get it. Like, I started to get that, that, there's that certain

characteristic about it. But I've been working on it in my truck. Oh, oh, oh, okay. You got to get it.

Brent, let's hear your best out of it. Oh, that's pretty good. You got a little tremolo thing at the end. That's a frisky owl. I've been saving that.

Yeah, man. Very nice. Hey, this is the bear Grease Render podcast, okay? This is the bear grease render and the bear grease render.

If this is your first time listening to the podcast, the bear grease podcast is a documentary style podcast where we explore all kind of stuff, all kind of interesting stuff and have these documentary style podcasts. We do that, we release those every other week.

So by the time this comes out, there's going to be like six bear grease podcast out. This is a bear grease render, boys. And the bear grease render is every other week. So now the Bear Greas podcast is weekly because every other week we're going to meet and have like a informal conversation that reflects and dissects. Oh, that's good. We're going to use that.

Reflex and dissects the Bear Grease documentary style podcasts. Okay. We're boiling that cabbage down. That's right. We're boiling the cabbage. down, chewing the tobacco thin, as they say. So before we get started here, where we talk about what the render is, I want to introduce my guests, okay?

So we are at the global headquarters of Bear Hunting Magazine and Meat Eater South. Okay? How y'all like that? Yeah, that's nice. And I have, really, every single one of you is like, you wouldn't be here if you weren't like super important in my life. And most of you, well, all of you have been involved in some way in either the Bear Grease podcast or in one of the guy's cases, not the Bear Grays podcast, but my former

Barney Magazine podcast. We won't mention his name. To my direct left, to my left is my dear friend Brent Reeves. Yep. Who could, uh, Brent Reeves could teach a doctoral. level class. I'm reading this, okay. Brent Reeves could teach a doctoral class. He wrote this. He wrote this himself. Yeah, this is Brent's bio. No, this is my bio in Brent. Brent Reeves could teach a doctoral level class on folksy southern sains. And ironically, he has also seen two Arkansas

mountain lions. That is correct. Brent was also filming when in 2016, the big color phase bear in Saskatchewan that's hanging on the wall right over there. That's him. Touched my arrow. and sent, you know, Brent was the one like sitting right behind me. Yeah. So, Brent, good to have you here. Good to be here, man. To Brent's left is Dr. Daniel Rup, who now that makes two times I've called you doctor in your life.

And that'll be the last time. I'm going to do it one time. So Dan was on the Akron podcast, okay? Dan is, man, Dan's like, I'm not even going to get into really what he does, like neither with Brent. This is just when I think of you guys, this is what I think of. Dan has never combed his hair and has a beard like a Viking. That is true.

And ironically, he himself as well has seen an Arkansas mountain line. I have seen it. Which we'll want to get to you later. All right. I'm going to call that particular podcast not a, I'm going to call it a docudrama. Stirring up controversy. Me, you and Gary are going to get jackets made. Oh.

Yeah. Believers, Jack. Yeah. Believers. Okay. And interesting fact about Dan that you guys may not have known, Dan Roup, was the first guest on the Bear Honey magazine podcast. Did you know that, Dan? I didn't even know that.

I was there? You were actually, you didn't know we were recording that? No, for real. In British Columbia, me, you and Devin Jewell. Hey. That was the first one, Dan. It was a turning point in my life. Yeah.

I can tell us. So consciously, apparently. Okay, so that's Dan Rube. To his left is Dr. Malachi Nichols. Now, I call this guy a doctor sometimes. He just has the look. He didn't get his off the internet. No, okay.

Now, Dr. Maliki Nichols, here are his credentials. He was on the Berger's podcast, episode number two, the thing about Al Hooters. He was the guy that I interviewed about, the social science question of correlations and how they can be connected or not. But Dr. Malachi Nichols is a current Arkansas license holder.

That's true. Hunting License holder. He is a... Show us your hunting license, Malachi. There it is. He's pulling it out of his wallet just to prove it. Dr. Malachi Nichols is a one-time... I can confirm it's real. It's legit.

Oh, he's got the hard... He's also got an Arkansas concealed carry license. He's got a hard card. very nice and a duck stamp I've never seen one of those okay Dr. Malachi Nichols is also a one-time coon hunter yep one time yeah is that the only hunt you've ever been on though never got an invitation back no but here here here is what I think of what I think of Malika he is the only person that has given me the stiff arm on a legit outdoor related partnership venture request A hard no.

I mean, I mean, okay, Malachi and I, we've talked about this before publicly, and we've worked it out together privately. So there's no, this is not like an offense that I need to like go to my brother about. Is that what today is about? No, no, no, we've already done it. But I just know. Okay. Like, there's just things that you remember about people that you never forget. No, me and Malachi, we fried fish a couple times together for our wives and families.

And we just had a great time. And I was like, man, Malachi I love. to fry fish. And, you know, we talked about fishing a little bit here and there. And then I was like, likes to fry fish, likes to fish. He's my friend. How about we go in partners on a boat, Malachi? That was my question.

Hard no. I mean, just like. He went from like 25 miles per hour to like 75 interstate real quick. He skipped some stuff, didn't they? Yeah, it was like, I want to get fishing poles first. I want to take small steps. Do you want to keep it at his house? for your convenience.

Oh, maybe so. There we go. You're not the first one he's offered this deal to you. And then, so to his left is Josh Spillmaker. Sands Doctor. Sands Dr. Spilmaker.

Okay, true story. I bet none of you know this. True story. Ten years ago, Josh Spillmaker's mustache inspired me to read a book on the Bering Land Bridge. This is not a joke.

Ten years ago, Josh Spillmaker's mustache inspired me to read a book on the Bering Land Bridge, which got me interested in early human history and anthropology. And he is a legendary adult onset fly fisherman. No, let me tell you the story. One day, me and Josh were standing there. And, I mean, you got to admit, the guy's got a great beard. Oh, my goodness. But the mustache, the way that it, it was like it was connecting two continents.

That's what it felt like. I said, Josh, you got an awesome mustache. And I was like, that reminds me the Bering Land Bridge. That night I went home on Amazon and ordered a book that's right up there. And it was all about the Bering Land Bridge. I read the book, was fascinated, and I think about it all the time. And look at you now. And now I've got to, I've tried to emulate your mustache.

You're welcome, America. You're welcome, Misty. Okay. Josh and then our guest of honor boom wow he's got the chair my father Gary Newcomb man so dad you've been on by the time this comes out you've been you will have been on the Berger's podcast a couple of times okay so this is a way this is what I think of when I think of Gary Newcomb once while in Vietnam this is a this a war story true story once while in Vietnam

he reported to his commanding officer wearing only a bath towel after he was summoned to report to the officer while he was in the shower. Okay? I think that's fair. That's part one. We're going to need a little bit of explanation. Number two. I don't know if I want to know. Gary Newcomb is single-handedly credited with keeping the myth of the Black Panther alive in North Carolina.

Single-handedly. Believe it. Dad, give us just a short. short version of the, when you reported to your officer and your bath towel. Well, it, you know, Vietnam, you're always looking for something to keep your sanity. This little clerk came in and he was like, this is serious. You got to go see the captain. So I just walked out naked with my towel over my shoulder. Oh, you didn't even start heading towards his office. Of course, by the time I got there, I covered myself up. But to respect. Anyway, so you, Tarzan reporting is the order. You were

What you were trying to say was, bro, let me at least get out of the shower. Is that that important? That was kind of like the... It had to be so important. It didn't matter. I was going. So, anyway, it was kind of funny. At the time.

Great, great. Well, okay, now that we've done proper introductions, let's get down to business here, boys. So the Bear Gries render is the short version of the Bear Gries podcast where we talk about. it. Man, I've had the time of my life building the, when this comes out, there will be six Bear Grays podcasts out. And the podcast is formatted in such a way that it's, it's hard for me to, like, when I get done making one of these, I want to call one of you guys and talk about it. Like, and there's so much more that can be said, because we're trying to make it an efficient

listen. And so, you know, it's fairly scripted, you know, scripted in the sense that everything is thought out. But it's also, you know, there are sections of, of informal interviews. But for instance, you will hear interviews on the Bear Gries podcast with experts, with whoever, like Dan Rupp, that we talked for probably an hour, Dan, and I whittled it down to like 17 minutes. He cut a whole lot of that. That was a lot of. That was a lot of. He told me it was pretty There's a lot of fluff in it. So, like, this is going to give kind of me and outlet to, like, say some other stuff to make corrections. There's a couple of corrections.

Man, when you're spouting off this much information, boys, you know, sometimes you get it wrong. Tall tails. Tall tails. But it also gives you guys a chance to, like, talk to me about any perceptions that you had. As the end user. As the end user of this podcast. Anything I could have done better. and so I know all you guys have something to say

we're at a little bit of a disadvantage on the first bearerese render because we've already had six podcasts come out okay and so as we get on the weekly schedule there's going to be like one podcast that's going to come out and so it'll be a little bit more focused but so on this one we're just going to kind of hit and miss over the different six podcasts that have come out but what I haven't had a chance to do on the bear grease podcast is talk about

the name bear grease do you all know why it's bear grease do you all understand the metaphor is the marketing strong enough that you understand the metaphor this is an open question this is the first time do you think no what are you talking about do you have a podcast

you don't understand no good okay so you don't understand no listen bear grease is literally I'm holding a jar in my hand right now is literally the rendered fat of a black bear. Okay. Now put on your deep philosophical thinking caps, okay?

At one time, bear grease was a medium of currency, and it was a staple of life on the American frontier. Bear grease stayed good longer than pork lard. So, like, if you were, if you homesteaded in Arkansas or Tennessee or Kentucky or wherever, you would render down this fat and it would be extremely valuable to you. It was a form of currency. Did you know that an eel of bear grease, that is an archaic unit of measure for bear grease,

was the tanned neck hide of a deer sewn together, bear grease poured into it, and then it was sealed up, and an eel of bear grease was like a unit of currency. It is just perchance, boys, that the U.S. dollar isn't nickname an eel. okay like it but it's nicknamed a buck because a buck skin was worth about one US dollar

you follow me wow I actually I don't know that either I'm making that up that bear eel was almost how much of this are you making up so okay philosophical thinking caps

this at one time was highly important and everyone would have known about it this would have been like normal like you'd have it in your house you'd have it in your house you'd have it in your house what about old trough Arkansas.

Well, that's, that is a, that is a city artifact of what I'm talking about. Yeah. Because it was a city in northern Arkansas that had a processing plant for barrel oil, and they shipped that barrel oil down the White River. It's like the Fed Reserve. That's right. Ford, I got you. Yeah.

Clay, you know, the first time I indirectly met you was through a jar of bear groceries. Is that right? Your daughter came into my class. I was teaching, teaching school. And your daughter came into my class. She had a, she had a tanned foxhide on her left shoulder. This is river. This is a true story.

Tanned foxhide on her left shoulder and a jar of bear grease. And she just walks into my classroom like nothing's happening. Was it show and tell? Well, it was just a regular day. It was Tuesday. It was Tuesday. She walked in, you know, with this foxhide and this jar of bear grease. And she said, my dad sent this with me.

I'm going to put it on the window. It's supposed to tell us what the weather is going to be like. So I want to know if it's going to rain before we go outside. And she sat down. And it's like, I had been in Arkansas like a year. And I'm thinking, like, where am I at right now? And that is the first time I indirectly met Clay Newcomb. I never met him before.

And met him through his daughter with a jar of berries. A jar of berries. A jar of bargaries. That is awesome. So I've forgotten about that story. Who in here didn't know that was river? Nobody. Exactly. It was river.

And that's why this jar is where it is. This is my weather forecasting jar bearers. You see this chart right here? I'll send you boys home with one of these one day. This is a chart made by Gordon Wimpsat out in New Mexico that you can read the weather. Is it close? it's man that bear grease changes all the time it really does every single day it looks different um okay so now we've all come together to this point of that bear grease was like this valuable thing and then now it's

not it's erased from people's memory i mean like erased like you go and like poll the 330 million people in the united states i mean like 0 0 0 0 0 1% would like kind of know what it was yeah the Bear Greer's podcast is we are exploring things that are forgotten but relevant, searching for insight in unlikely places. Like telling the weather off a jar of bergeries. You know where that came from, Malachi? No idea. Channel 7.

Channel 7. Is that where you get your weather? Yeah. No, Native Americans in the southwestern U.S., they would take the dried and scraped bladder of a deer, pour bear grease in it, and when it drivetting. it became almost translucent, and you could see through it like a glass jar. And they forecasted the weather based upon the bear grease in that jar. Things forgotten but relative, insight and unlikely places.

And our tagline is we're going to tell the story of Americans who live their lives close to the land. And so bear grease is a metaphor, something that's forgotten. And man, bear grease, we use it for all kind of stuff. We use it for frying. We use it for pastries. We use it for oil and conditioning leather. We use it for rubbing down gun barrels. We use it for forecasting the weather.

You see this bar of soap right here? You can go to the Meteor.com and see me and Colby Moorhead making this bar of soap out of bare fat. It's animal tallow lye fat soap. Incredible stuff. If I had more of it, I'd give y'all some, but I don't. And I got to stay clean somehow. But that, I'm telling you, that, that lie soap is incredible. Is it in your shower?

You bet you it is. Really? I've actually got some of it. I'll send you some home if you want. Yeah, I'd like to have some. You feel incredible. I mean, I'd like to have something for my time. You want to bring something up.

Oh, man. We're not getting paid. This is actually a multi-level marketing. Wow. We're all going to be selling this bear soap. So, guys, that's why I brought you here. You can get on, you get it on the ground floor. This is going to be in my downline.

You were right. Yeah. I actually have some of it in my shower. Colby gave me. Oh, yeah. It's great. It's great. It's great.

So, good for your skin. Good soap. So you see the metaphor. So, like, we're, like, basically that gives us this broad window to explore all these different things. And for instance, the insight, like, inside the Mountain Line podcast. Like, that was like a, like, the first podcast was called the Myth of the Southern Mountain Line, which was a really fun podcast where I interviewed people, a few people that have seen mountain lines, claimed to have anyway.

Saul's seen mountain line. Yeah, yeah. And I interviewed a biologist, and I interviewed a psychologist about how people, cognitive bias, like if you're, it's a wonder I've not seen a mountain line because my dad believes in Black Panthers. Do you see what the cognitive bias means if your dad told you there was something there, even if it wasn't? I'm going to give you a chance to defend yourself, dad.

Do you believe in oxygen? I do. Oh, can you see it? No. I saw a mountain line. Gary, did you see one? I saw a Black Panther. Brent Reeves, did you question, after you listened to that podcast, did you question yourself?

I question my friends. I circle of friends and the people that I call. Re-evaluated your relationships. The dynamic of that relationship. I thought, who is this psychologist? What's he going to be cognitive? What was it again? Cognitive bias.

And the problem is, is no one ever told me there wasn't mountain lines in Arkansas. no one ever told me there was. And so you're saying you're totally unbiased and the one you saw was just like, for real. Yes. Are you convinced you saw it? 100%. What was it behind bars or on a chain or not outside of a restaurant or what? It was wearing a pink tutu.

No, I have witnesses. I told you in the podcast. It wasn't like I was by myself. Same here. My wife was with me. Well, there you go. Hey, you don't have to defend yourself. I'm just kidding.

the point is, well, I don't believe you, but the insight, though, like, so I'm trying to describe, like, the Bear Greece podcast, because somebody could be listening to this and never even heard the Bear Grie's podcast. The insight came inside of, like, we explored this thing. Like, there's this artifact, and I like that word, of from when lions were actually here. Because indisputably, there are a lot of people that claim that see Mountain Lions that didn't. And I absolutely 100% believe every one of you. I said it on the podcast, too. I said I'd punch somebody in the teeth if they didn't believe Gary Newcomb or Brent Reeves. They'd quit listening by then.

You didn't say anything about Dan. Well, Dan's wasn't on there. Okay. But the insight came in just looking at how we want to believe our brother. Like, do you remember at the end? Like, I came to the conclusion. And I didn't fabricate that. Like, after I talked to all these people, like, it was like the redeeming factor of it all,

was that like the way we've survived and it's natural for me I trust Brent Reeves if he tells me sees a mountain line then by golly he saw a mountain line and I'm just giving you guys a hard time so basically what you're saying is that you can love your friends even when they're delusional even if they're liars and okay the deeper thought is is that what has made human successful in the earth is that we want to trust our brother yeah I agree we it's like a mechanism like because if I can't, it's a mechanism of trust. Like, I want to believe you. And then I think that has produced a lot of false mountain line, you know, sightings from people who maybe had some, you know, thought they saw one. Hadn't been vaccinated like. Hadn't been vaccinated against Lyme. Correct. Very good, Brent.

Yeah, yeah. Now, Dad, okay, I've, I've credited you with keeping the myth of the Black Panther alive. How do you feel about that? I think it's wonderful. I mean, it's nice that you. you put out the truth. I mean, it's against science, but I mean, who you're going to trust? Do you believe it because you saw one? Well, I mean, I don't think that's any of your business. Can neither confirm nor deny.

You know, when I go down to Aunt Ollie's, she lives in a dog trot house with trees over the road, and at night we are awakened by a screaming black panther. I mean, who you're going to trust? trust. Yep. And Ollie. Tell us what a dog truck house is.

It's got a porch right down the middle. One side's your kitchen, living room, one side's your bedroom. Big trees out. I mean, it was an amazing place. It's the architectural style that they used to use before air conditioning. Keeps it cool. Yeah, so you would cook on one side and then you would sleep on one side. Yeah, and the little community was almost as neat as the house.

It was Buck snort. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Fortis. Yeah. Yeah, buck snort. yeah no real word's that I wonder where that name

a lot of panthers there a lot of hey listen it's panther country yeah panther country panther country hey listen though no I I went 100%

like there are a legitimate mountain line I mean the biologist even confirmed it I mean like if you listen to the whole why are we even talking about this I'm just giving you a hard time the man confirmed it yeah there are mountain lines here

Now, Black Panthers. Now, that is where I draw the hard line. And neither of these guys have claimed to have seen a Black Panther. I've just heard him. And you just could tell by the sound that it was black? Absolutely. So the, but you would be shocked, shocked at the number of grown men who, after listening to that whole podcast and listening to Myron Means saying, from the position of science, there has never been.

been documented a melanistic mountain lion ever by science. Did you get some documentation in the mail, in the email? You wouldn't believe the grown men that message me. Some of them friends of mine. And they're like, Clay, I listen to the podcast. It was awesome. I believe every word of it. I've seen a Black Panther, though.

I mean, like it like rocked people's boats, man. I mean, like, I think it like splits families. Like this idea of the Black Panther. When Myron Means got off of that interview, was he like, there's really Black Panthers. He was like, he reached over, turned the tape recorder off. He was like, cut it, Clay. It was like, I killed one last year. No.

No, I had two different people claim that their fathers. Well, one of them claimed that their father had shot at a Black Panther. One of them claimed that their father killed. day Black Panther. Killed it with a bow. I'm telling you, this guy's like, I know this guy, and I'm like,

send me a picture. And if he's listening now, I hope he'll send me a picture. I want to believe you. I want to believe him. I had a guy bringing up a good point that there is a cat-like critter

down in South Texas called a Jagarundi, which is a cat-like critter that lives in Deep South Texas and they can be melanistic. Okay? So like, could a Jagarundi walk 900 miles to Arkansas, or 500, possibly.

I had another guy say that he thinks Black Panther sightings are big otters, river otters, because a river otter is black and you don't see them very much, and they have big long tails. What do you think of that, Jagarundi? All the guys are, like, looking at their phones. Yeah, I mean, you could absolutely. I don't know about that. I mean, think about that at dark. Yeah, I can see that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially a dark. Dust. That's like a crazy looking in. Okay, I believe in black. It looks like a mountain lion with a house cat's head. Yeah. I never even heard of that until you just said it.

See if that's what Gary heard. Does that look like what you heard? That's not black. Well, but see, the thing. No, no, that's the thing. Sides has documented. Yeah, what I heard was a black panther. So that could have been melanistic.

Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. But the whole point of it was that jaguars and leopards can't have been documented as melanistic. The American mountain line has never been documented as melanistic. And so to see a Black Panther, it would just be like, well, they're not here. So anyway, super fun. And guess what? I am the biggest proponent of Black Panther in North America. When those guys send me that stuff, I'm like, heck yeah, brother.

Keep this thing alive. Yeah, keep it alive. Long live, the Black Panther, right? I love it. On Blood Trails, the stories don't end when the hunt is over. They just get darker. I've seen something in the road. I instantly thought it was a sleeping bed and there was a full of blood.

Oh, my God, he doesn't have a hit. Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors, where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce, and the truth gets buried under brush and silence. Indications were he should be right there, but he wasn't. This season, we're going deeper, from cold case files to whispered suspicions,

from remote mountains to frozen backwoods. Each story begins in the wilderness and ends in darkness. Because out here, are no witnesses, no cameras, just fragments and the people left behind trying to piece them back together. He's not an honest person. He's incapable of being honest. Somebody somewhere knows something. I'm Jordan Sillers. Season 2 of Blood Trails premieres April 16th. Follow now on Apple, Iheart, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Any further comments on episode number one? That was, I can tell you from a, from like a creative, stand, standpoint, just kind of like behind the scenes of that podcast, that was the first pod. I built that podcast like in January or something, you know, it just came out like in April. And I had all these interviews and had no idea how they would stitch together to tell a story. And when Phil Taylor at Mediator did it all, put it all together, and I had edited all the little sections and put it together, man, I was so excited when I heard it. I was just driving down the road and just listened to it. And I was like, yes, that is what I want to do with Bear grease. You know, like tell these interesting stories about rural culture.

And they're not always going to be about hunting. Like that podcast didn't have anything at all. I mean, it was good because it, you know, it gave a lot of depth to everything. It wasn't just, I saw this when I was 19. It was a whole lot of buildup and bases to all of the claims. You know, and eyewitness reports and then, you know, somebody to set back an unbiased view and look at all of it and say, you know, you may have seen something. But the possibilities of it being, you know, this particular color or that particular animal, you know, it's, you know, while not impossible, you know, highly improbable. Yeah.

You just give, you know, food for thought. Yeah. And if by unbiased, you mean Myron's section, I can support it. Clay is far from unbiased stuff. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I really liked about it was, it kind of made me, and this is probably one of the most naive things I'll say, but it just seems like when we weren't so detached from the land and from wild places that it might have been easier to trust one another. When you talk about trusting your brother and trusting your fellow man, when the biggest, you know, argument or polarizing, you know, one of them is, are there Black Panthers or not?

or are their mountain lines. Yeah. You know, whereas there's so many things today in our current age that just, it just seems like it inhibits that so much more. Well, that was 30 years ago, man, almost. And, you know, I've never had an outlet to even, you know, tell that story where in any setting that was...

When you saw your mountain lines just 30 years ago. Almost 30 years ago. Allegedly. And your old friend Clay was the only one who cared. He's the only one that listened. And then he tried to sell you. some soap. Hey, so right

here on the, you guys, this is a surprise. Y'all don't know what this is. That's a episode number three of the Bear Grease podcast was the Shedhorn Buck of 1962. Oh, that's... Are those James?

With my dear, dear friend, James Lawrence. That's his sheds? This is... The deer sheds. This is the buck. He gave those to you? Okay, I refused to allow him to give them to me.

Does he know you have those? That's what we should be asking. Man, I was at James's house, and this is before he'd even heard the podcast, and he just said, take those home with you. And he also allowed me turn around and look up here. So on the ceiling of my office, there's a picture of my dad, Gary Newcomb, with his first buck. There's a picture of Steve Schultz, who's my father-in-law, and there's a picture of James Lawrence back in the mountains of Arkansas with a buck.

And that buck that's hanging on the wall is a buck that James Lawrence killed on one of his big solo hunts back in the 70s. No, he killed that one in the 60s. He was like 21 years old when he killed it. Those three guys are my heroes. That's why they're there. And those, there's like 16 by 20 frame pictures. And what's so cool is they were all about.

the same age in that picture so dad how old were you that's dad's first buck oh 26 27 something like that so you were you were older than that when you he was 1978 i'm just glad you have more than a towel on you're 30 years old yeah yeah i'm glad he's wearing clothes well no maybe 70 7 77 29 yeah born 48 yeah yeah i wouldn't like most of these listeners i didn't start hunting until real late in life because my dad was so much like clay you didn't want to hang around him man he'd kill you hunting yeah i mean you'd go with him and it's like come on dad it's time to go home and we just getting started yeah yeah so yeah so dad started bow hunting when he was in his late 20s but you grew up bird hunting and stuff with your dad oh he kind of burned you out yeah yeah i had to lay rules down

when i got a little older that hey we're only going for four hours So there's dad's picture. And then Steve Schultz, my father-in-law, he was a falconer. And that picture was taken in the late 70s in Florida. And Steve's had an incredible influence on my life. And then James, who in his own unique way has had a significant impact on his life. But this is the Shedhorn Buck that he picked up these sheds. Those actual sheds are from the 60s?

Man, those look great. He picked up these sheds in the early 1960s. And actually, he told me that he made a sense. of rattling horns out of one pair because he's got three sets of sheds, but he can only find two. And this is actually two different year's sheds.

I'm holding a left antler and a right antler. So this was the buck the year before. If you really dissected and held it, you could see a difference in mass. Oh, yeah. And time length. This was the buck at his prime.

Okay? This is a left antler, a five-point side. People can go to my Instagram and see a picture of James and me with these deer. Okay, I scored this buck this side as a shed 10, 12 years ago. And I just remembered that it scored around 170. And that's what I said on the podcast.

I kind of got to not doubting myself, but I was just like, man, I wonder if that thing. I mean, I just kind of was like, I ought to rescore that thing just to make sure. You know, I'm interested in the facts, boys. Why did you invite us? Just a fact. Yeah, yeah. I scored this right before you. you guys came and that shed has 80 inches of antler on it. Wow. Really? Which 80 inches would be 80 times

two, which would be 160 plus the spread. Yeah. So this would have been a mid-170s white tail. Right. It's deceptive though. It's got a 22-inch main beam, 11 inches, 10 and a half, 7 and a half, five and a half plus two kickers plus, you know, four-inch mass all the way out. ends up being 80 inches. So like, but this is, that's the horn. Here. That's pretty sporty. So to a non-hunter, this is like a prized, if you were to kill this, this buck, this

would be a prize. None of us in this room have ever killed a deer that big. Much less how many years ago in Arkansas. That's right. I mean, that's the, that's one of the big things about it is the ecosystem in Arkansas that many decades ago. Yeah. This was a unicorn.

That is an absolute anomaly. Yeah. That set of antlers might as well. have been grown out right in the middle. It was had like a white-tailed unicorn. That's right. For real. In James, after 60 years of hunting, they called you the unicorn or the white-tailed unicorn?

Is that what this is about? You wanted to talk about my high school days? Yeah, this is you. Now, yeah, so Malika, that would be like just a really nice white-tail deer. And now, what did you guys think of that podcast? It was great. I listened to it again yesterday. Did you really?

I did. You know what? I thought how wonderful was it for him to have that story and that. You know, talk about, I mean, same with the, are there Panthers or not. You want to be trusted. You want to trust your fellow man. Basically, none of his family trusted him. Right.

You know, but then for you to do that podcast and have all these conversations with them, I mean, that had to really, had to be healing for him as kind of what I was taken away from. You know, what struck me about it was that, he was not a mainstream hunter. He did something different than everybody else. All the hunters that knew how to hunt had all the experience were out running dogs. And James is sitting there going, now I saw a deer out here. Right.

And I mean, he pursued his own thing. And in a way, if, you know, I don't hunt bucks like that. I mean, it's just too boring for me. So I'm not going to kill a deer like this unless it's an axe then. They're also really heavy to carry out of the woods. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. You've been with me when I picked the little dough instead of the big dough at you.

Yeah, yeah. But anyway, I've had a chance of killing a deer close to that, but it didn't work. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, that's a great point. And see, the whole point of that podcast to me was that James took something that was negative and turned it into something positive. Going back to insight in unlikely places. Like, that would have crushed most people. And did James.

It was a little bit tricky for me Because James trusts me so much I feel like He would just Tell me whatever asked him to tell And wouldn't question what I was going to do with that information If you told him you'd seen a mountain line, he'd believe him He would believe me He's never seen one

James Lawrence has never seen a mountain line Off to off subject But there was some pretty deep stuff there And I was drawing conclusions about like him, like that impacted him in a negative way. But he didn't get bitter about it. He, and I said this before, he is the guy that you want with you when you're successful. So like he didn't go and oppress people even more like he was oppressed.

Like he just instinctively was just like, man, I'm not going to ever let that happen to one of my friends. You know one thing too. You take Malachi that's not hunted much. and you kill a big buck. He didn't even know it. Right. I mean, those guys might have come at that a little more honest than what we think.

I see. It might not have been, I'm kind of jealous of James for killing it. It could have been they just thought, man, we're out here for the meat. We're trying to survive. Yeah, yeah. You know, forget the horns. I'm worried about my belly.

You know, I can see that. I think that makes sense if you've got a group of guys who are not hunting for sport and there's a socially accepted way to obtain sustenance and he's going against the grain. In the quickest way possible. In the quickest way possible.

I didn't feel like at all in the podcast that his family were like demonized or anything, but it makes a little more sense as to why. I couldn't figure out, why are they so unkind to this kid? You know, why does some of the men in his life come and be like, man, that's awesome. What's you're doing is great. That's where it was a little bit touchy and I had to be careful. and I actually asked a few people before. I said, do you think that would hurt?

Do you think, I mean, I didn't want to disclose more than, but James is the one that said it, you know, I mean, like, he just told the story, and he was kind of, he was kind of discounted. And that is also pretty normal, too. I mean, like, to kind of discount a kid when they're saying something. And James has the utmost respect for his family, too.

And you could tell that at the first of the podcast, when we was talking about his grandmother and grandfather, how much he respected them, and how they never said anything negative about anybody. Man, that's James. But if we're talking about the Bear Grays podcast and kind of forecast and where this thing's going to go, these first six episodes, I think, are all very diverse.

You think about it. Like, we explore this folklore of the myth of the Southern Mountain Lion. Every podcast I have an expert, like a biologist, or an academic guy, or just someone who's a subject matter expert. And then the idea is also that we're interviewing in the field people that have information about the topic, like Brent and Dad seeing Mountain Lions. And then Daniel's like waving his hand. He's like, well, I wouldn't know. And Daniel?

And every podcast is going to have kind of this similar structure, but all going to be very different. like this folklore about mountain lion and a biology lesson. And then the next one, we're talking about the correlation between being a good Al Hooter and a turkey hunter and talking about calling turkeys. Horrible. Horrible. You did good, man. Nail.

I did my best. Yeah. Well, you're getting there. And then the third podcast was the Shedhorn Buck in 1962, which was just this guy's story. And then the fourth podcast was Death of a Bear Hunter, which was. Fantastic. Man. Man.

Okay, that one was a historically based podcast about a guy in a book and one single story out of the book, but we painted the context of the whole scene. You listen to that podcast. You understand what's going on in the 1830s in Arkansas. You understand who Gerstocker was. You understand a little bit about Native Americans that he was hunting with. And like, what did y'all think of that one? I got a bone to pick with you on that.

Okay. Hold this deer horn. while you're doing it. This is a weapon. Okay, pass the deer horn if you want to talk. Three years ago, three years ago, you said, Brent, have you ever seen this book? Wild Sports in the Far West by Frederick Gerstead. Yeah, that one.

Never heard of it. He said, you got to read it. He said, and this is why I want you to read it. Now, this is three years ago. He says, I want you to read this book, and when you get done, you and I are going to do a podcast on this. I heard him say it. I was there. so I buy this book and I read this thing from cover to cover.

I can speak German. And it's 400 pages, right? Yeah. And then the next thing I know when the podcast comes out, I'm like, I don't hear myself on there. That doesn't even sound like that. So basically I gave you an assignment to do a book report and then there was no book report dude.

I never got a grade. It was absolutely, it was incredible though, man. And that book, I sent that book to my brother and both of my nephews, I think, have read it now. It's an incredible book. Yeah. I passed the horn. Hey, well, you read it too, Dan. Yeah, I did.

Now, you read it years ago when I just told you the story. Well, we were on a bear hunt together and something had reminded you of the story and you, Clay retold the story. And the way that I remembered it was you got to kind of the climax of the story and this gentleman gets knocked out everything goes black, wakes up his hunting buddies I mean it's just like just this amazing story I went and got the book and read it

and it was just fantastic. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that story has been on my mind for years. I mean, that's the reason I told it. But we're going to replicate that into other podcasts with historical stories. And I've already got some ideas that I cannot share.

I'll share with you guys. after this. You got a few books you want Brent to read. Yeah. Yeah. I'll get some better writing. Yeah. What, Josh, your thoughts on that one?

Well, I listened to that one a couple of times. I loved the, I mean, when you're reading that story, you are transported into the, what is happening. And Gerstocker does such a great job. Josh is German. describe it does such a great job describing the scene yeah it's like who needs Netflix when you got that yeah you know you mentioned this i think maybe on the podcast but a lot of the places that he talked about in that book i've been you know it's it's it's between here and where i live

in central arkansas yeah up and down the little red river well you know it's i was serious when i said on the podcast i was offended at people that i didn't know that i didn't know that that story till I was 30 years old. I'm serious. I'll tell you where I was at. Did Moe know about it? I was not in this country. I was in another country reading a book in a hotel room. And I had no idea that, well, this college professor had said, hey, there's some stories about Arkansas bear hunting there. It's all I said, terrible marketing. Like the first half of the book, the guy's not even in Arkansas. So I'm just kind of like, oh, this is cool. I mean, you know, it's cool, but I wanted Arkansas stuff. And when I get to that,

story. I'm not kidding. I remember where I was sitting when I read that story. And I was just like, holy cow. So you didn't know he was eventually coming to Arkansas? I didn't know that he was, well, no, no, I knew, all I knew was that there's some Arkansas bear stories. I had no idea that it was just right down the road. And I'm like, why don't we know that? Yeah. Why don't they teach this in Arkansas public schools? Why? And like, just, it's just, and the truth is, is there's stuff like that littered all across history. Like wherever the people that are listening to this live, stuff happened right where they live.

Yeah, history is made every day. That is substantial. Made every day. This guy, hand him the horn. Yeah, Gary the horn. Golly. No, and, okay, going back to the insight, like Bear Grease can give you insight beyond what you would have thought it would, is that I really have had the question of why does

that story impact me so much? Like, why? And that was my exploration inside of that podcast is, why do stories impact this? Because that story has no consequence on my life in a rational sense. Like, a guy got killed by a bear out here with dogs. But that guy's story has shaped my family. And it's just, you know, and then the conclusion was, humans are massively impacted by stories. Whether you want to or not.

and so you got a choice of what stories you let impact you Netflix tells stories that's what Netflix is in the business of telling stories you know Amazon Prime absolutely and so like and you know you could say well Clay why are you letting a story about a

English guy you didn't know getting killed by a bear you know like impact your family like that's kind of aside from the point in that it's like we we get the we get to choose what impacts us and how it impacts us. You know, and I was, like, if Gerstocker had just been a dirtball, that story, like, if he had just been known as like an outlaw and like a scrupulous character, like, I wouldn't have had respect.

I respected the guy. He did love people. Like I said on the podcast, when he left Conwell's house, like these are people that he had just met. He couldn't even speak their same language that well. And he cried when he left. Conwell's house. He said Conwell had hair as white as snow and he loved his family. And he went into how he stayed with them and they begged him to stay. And it's just like, I like it. I like that guy.

And then just his insightfulness. And he wasn't like a conservation hero. Like I wasn't trying to paint Gerstocker as a conservation hero. But he did have insight that the market hunting of the times of which he participated in was unsustainable. And like, so that then becomes like a stamp on that story. And like, when I think of that, I think of, man, we'll never do that again. He was hunting bears in February in dens. Right. And it's like, man, that was really cool.

We ain't doing that no more. You ought to quit. I mean, there are stories in that book of them crawling into dens, crawling in caves with lit torches, they call them torches, but pine kindlers, pine kindling split, climbing into caves, killing a sow bear, and then smacking cubs up against the rock

to kill them. I mean, like, they were in the business of killing stuff. And it's like, that did happen. That's not good.

It's not going to happen again because it happened then. Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah. It's like me, like talking about conservation-based bear hunting where we're highly selective

and we're trying to target these older mature males. That happened because Gerstocker, who didn't know any better, was clubbing, you know, baby bears over the head. I mean, for lack of a better term. You probably went to Alaska Club Baby Seals too.

You're next. Listen, we have the right as humans to correct our paths and learn from our past. It's like James Lawrence, redemption inside of something that was negative. Well, you recognize that that is obsolete, and you have to be able to recognize the obsolescence of that thing and move on and say, this worked for the time. it's no longer relevant. Yeah. Yeah.

And we'd still be doing that today if we hadn't. Well, we wouldn't because the bears would be gone. And they were for a long time. They were in Arkansas. Okay. Closing comments here, Dan. I'm going to throw this horn to you. And then you'll get to speak.

Just what do you think? I'm going to say overall, the podcast is solidly mediocre. No. No, no, no, no. I think what, as I've been listening to them and really enjoying them, I think, you know, when you think about podcasts and stories, a lot of today's kind of stories and podcasts either are really critiquing a part of life in usually not a very beneficial way, or it's trying to kind of escape life, you know, as it is. And I feel like what I really like about what you're doing is I leave having listened to one

of your podcasts and I'm thinking about how I see things and how I relate with people and choices that I make. To me, it helps me feel more connected. It's your insight. You know, you're giving insight from unlikely places. And I feel like that is what I walk away with. Yeah. I like it.

I think about where this all started with me and you. And we were in Oklahoma on a bear bait. and I was running the camera. And we'd been sitting there for that one day for a week, it seemed like, and hadn't seen a bear. And you turned away from me, and I was looking off back to the left. I was sitting on the left to the left of clay. And when I turned back around, you had taken mud, and I assumed water,

and covered your face in mud, and I thought, how did I get here? I've carried 40 pounds. of camera equipment on the side of this mountain in the Wachita Mountains. And this guy, he's just put mud all over his face. Are you sure it wasn't feces? No, I don't know what it was. But I thought this is, this guy'll never go anywhere.

But look what you've done, buddy. I'm very proud of you for what it, what it's turned into. And the drive, you know, I say that facetiously, about knowing you weren't going to go anywhere. The drive you had has been out. It's inspired me to do a lot of stuff too. And I just appreciate you letting me come along for the ride. Right on, man.

Yeah, as the non-hunter in the group, I think hearing the podcast and watching you tell people's stories, I think it's a very powerful tool to continue the legacy and culture and give people who haven't had that exposure a correct way of seeing things. I think hunting, I think the southern culture, I think Arkansas has, you know, nationally not a good rep. Yeah. And hearing the stories and seeing how you hunt and it's being driven by principles and patterns and the way that you, you share, the way that you've been influenced by your dad, the way that you influence your kids. I think it's a powerful medium and tool to give people a cleaner, more pristine, more correct picture of hunting, of Arkansas, of the south, of relationships, of everything that is built inside

of a commodity that was once, you know, valuable that is, but is lost. And so bringing that back and giving people a better picture of that, I think, is awesome. Yeah. it's good well i think that i've really enjoyed the podcast and i think just having known you for a lot of years i appreciate um first of all like malich i said i appreciate the relational aspect of of the podcast i think it i think when it all boils down to it it's relationship that makes us rich and so to be able to connect with people and to to draw stories from people i think storytelling and the ability to draw stories out of people that that thing has been lost in a sense that shows the depth of what's been built in people over a long journey.

And so I think to be able to hear that from you who have a passion to mine that out, I think it's valuable for people to be able to hear. And so I'm really looking forward to the future podcasts and the things that I'm I get to learn by listening. And, yeah, man, I think it's great. And you eagerly await being on the Bear Greas podcast. Eagerly render. And I might become so popular on the render that I don't need to be on the Greek podcast.

Oh, I see. That's a great point. Hey, this is good for this. Josh, we're passing the deer horn. Dad, what do you think, Ben? Well, I hate to burst your stinking bubble, but. These guys are obviously on the payroll. And I am really disappointed in you, Daniel.

I think you sort of have a spiritual, religious background. It's obvious again that you hadn't been vaccinated against Lyme. That's Brist's deal. I just loved it on the podcast when he's talking about Coon Hunters. But, you know, when I listen to it, I look at it from a deadly standpoint. That's a new word. Dadly. Dadley.

We'll take it. You know, it's just like when you're, you're a kid, you know, your brain's not totally formed. I mean, you miss about half the good stuff. It's like on the deal with the dogs. I mean, nowhere did you mention that the dog is your best friend, but why is he your best friend? It's because he loved you first.

He's the only animal that loves you more than him. And, I mean, you didn't even cover that. I mean, I was embarrassed. I'd be honest with it. It was embarrassing that you went in all that rhetoric and didn't mention the love that dog has for you. And if you look at life, in a way I'm serious about the love, I think you can detect that.

But I only love people that love me. And if they have the ability to show me that they love me first, you know, they expose themselves. It's like I'm open. Vulnerable. Vulnerable, it's the word. Yeah, there you go. So, I mean, that's a powerful tool.

is love and people that are have enough confidence to expose themselves to hate and a dog does it immediately yeah yeah how that came from a wolf to domesticated dog but it's really powerful but no really all these podcasts they're different than a lot that I've heard where you have a lot of meat a lot of science a lot of humor, all of it mixed up into a recipe that is pretty entertaining and educational. Yeah. So obviously, I need a tune out of your mother instead of your daddy. There you go, Clay. Pretty entertaining.

It's a solid six. It's a solid. Gary Newcomb gives a Bear Grie's podcast two stars. I'm reading. There's room for growth. Okay. Hey, I need people to leave iTunes reviews on the Berger's podcast. Like, so this is my un-ashamed solicitation for all our listeners to go to iTunes.

And apparently that drives the needle on these podcasts with the higher-ups, you know. So I'm asking everybody out there, do me a favor and just, you know, you can do as little as just giving it like, stars, but the best thing to do would be to leave a comment. Just say what you think. That would help us. And I thank my guests so much for being here. Really, you guys mean the world to me, all of you, so that's why you're here. Check out Brent's podcast, Nightlife Nation. Brent's got a Coon Hunt podcast. Check out Josh on Instagram, Kiki and the Beard. Nobody else has any, like, big social platforms. I have Twitter. Yeah, but it's all education stuff. You're on the Twitter. But again, if you hadn't been paying attention,

we're going to do this every other week. So the Bear Grease podcast will come out every other week. The Bear Greas Render, which is us just shooting the bull. It'll be a different, you know, it might be different people, might be the same people. Y'all may never want to come back. Brent drove three hours to be here. Did y'all know that?

Gary drove two. Yeah. Two and a half. Two and a half. He'll never get those two and a half back. No, thank you guys so much. And yeah, I can't wait for the next episode. Keep the wild places wild, because that's where the bears live,

and that's where you get bear grease. You know what? When Malachi left the house this morning, he thought he had the coolest socks on. Oh, he was wrong socks. Those are coon dog, buddy. Those are coondock socks. Oh, me. How crazy.

First Lights Fieldwear collection is made for the work that happens long. before opening day and continues when the season ends. Products built for early mornings, full days and real use. Hard wearing where they need to be versatile where it matters. No shortcuts. Just gear designed for the work that earns the season. Built to perform, built to last. Check out.

FirstLight's new fieldwear gear at firstlight.com. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.