Bear Grease - Ep 81: Bear Grease [Render] - Operation Redbud, Confronting Brent, and Elon Musk

Episode Date: November 23, 2022

On this episode of Bear Grease, the “OG” render crew reunites to discuss Operation Redbud, which at the time was the largest turkey poaching sting in US history. Clay grills Brent on his experiences as an under cover narcotics agent and whether or not he is presently running a sting operation on Clay. Josh ponders the psychological impacts of long term deep cover operations. Gary discusses his experiences growing up around future President Bill Clinton, as well as some audio production tips for Phil the en guy engineer. And stick around, because you’re not going to want to miss Misty’s advice for Elon Musk in his new role as owner of Twitter. Connect with Clay and MeatEater Clay on Instagram MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and Youtube Shop Bear Grease MerchSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. First Lights fieldware collection is made for the work that happens long before opening day and continues when the season ends. Products built for early mornings, full days and real use. Hard wearing where they need to be versatile where it matters. No shortcuts. Just gear designed for the work that earns the season.

Built to perform, built to last. Check out. First Light's new field. Worldware Gear at firstlight.com. My name is Clay Newcomb, and this is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called the Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual Bear Grease podcast. Presented by FHF Gear, American Made, Purpose Built, Hunting and Fishing Gear that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. It's been a long run since I've seen you guys on the Bear Grease Render.

It's true. You're welcome. This is a monumental day for us. We have the... Poor life decisions. The OG's. The OG original gangster Bear Grease Render crew here today. I have, to my left, my lovely wife, Misty Nukem.

Welcome back, Misty. Good to be here. Sporting her first light, parka. Actually, Clay's first light. When I'm really cold, I put on Clay's really, really big, puffy one. So you guys, the last time I saw you was before I went to Alaska in September. Because you guys did a render without me when I was in Alaska. And then the next time we did a render in Alaska, I believe.

No. Wasn't that? No, we did multiple renters and I've been traveling. And so you guys have been out of the picture for a little while. It's like our vacation time. You remember when I asked R.T. Stewart, if poachers are jealous, does the render crew get jealous?

No. Not me. Not Brent? Okay. I think it's envious. A little more envy? Jealousy is when you are concerned that someone's going to steal what you have, and envy is when you want what someone else has.

That is a good distinction. That is a good distinction. Gary and I were just talking about the render you had with all the folks from back home. Oh, yeah. That was a pretty good render. That was there with me. Yeah. That was a good render.

I got incredible feedback from the render with Scott, Andy, Steve Phillips, Randy Stepp, Coy House, Gary Newcomb. Yeah, that was a great one. That was a really good one. I really enjoyed the one with James Lawrence and those guys. And Gerald. Yes, that was one of my favorite. I would have Gerald Brewer on this podcast every week.

I have so many good Gerald Brewer's stories. We need to. He's got a head, hairy like a movie star. It's true. So Misty's to my left. And then Brent Reeves, who's, I've got, we've got a little dialogue to have together. Brent, welcome. Thank you.

To your left, Josh Lambridge, Spillmaker, Josh. Good to be back. Great to see you. Back in the saddle. Great to see you. To Josh's left, Isaac Neal. I'm just happy to be invited. Assistant to the producer of the Bear Grace podcast.

Got a nice mustache right now too. My wife said, why don't you shave your beard into a mustache? And I said, yes, ma'am. Did she mean a fu-manchu? Okay, so I had not shaved in... Because she might not have them. Just throwing that out there. That's a different thing.

Right. So I hadn't shaved in 11 years at all, like anything at all. And so I shaved. And as I was going, I was thinking just like, you know, the cop mustache, the dad mustache just top of the lip. And then I started shaving. I was like, well, I don't know. So I just kind of stopped. It wasn't even like bottom of the jaw, boo manchu.

It was just like, that's when it occurred to me. And I was like, well, I'll just find out. like she's getting home in an hour and so she came home and she's like yeah that's that's good that's acceptable okay okay we need to probably come back to talking about facial hair and okay we're gonna do that yeah after just after you introduce our last person yeah because we need to talk about your most recent meat eater video okay so and to isaac's left is gary believer newcom who your name came up on the podcast this week unannounced you heard that did i did i wasn't sure if you'd approve of that or not that that was that was that was

was okay okay i'm pretty notorious with that with my buddies over the years good well good i as i did it i i was like i think it'd be cool with this so uh brent reeves uh your career kind of is that a fork in the road i guess uh so is your freedom uh so how did you feel um now that your covers been busted Has it been officially busted? Well, I mean, I've called you out nonstop on this podcast for being an undercover agent trying to bust me. Man, you can say anything. You can say a rooster dip snuff, but if you don't see a snuff can under his wing, it still ain't true. Am I right?

I'm still piecing all that together in my brain. I think you are right. I feel like the big difference is Clay is saying I saw the snuff can. Yeah, yeah, saw the snuff can. well it remains to be seen okay okay

just keep doing right if that's what you're doing I never stopped okay that's an opinion I never started purposely doing wrong I mean everybody makes a mistake

every now and then yep well wait can I just can I just say did you check his hat for a wire yeah maybe Brit

I think you're the one wearing the wire take a shirt off yeah Now, was that on this podcast? I don't know. I think it was the last one. I want to say the full story of that one is on the next, because we're doing a full three episodes with RT.

I think that story is on the next one. But I think I told you all about those. Anyway, not important. Yeah, I don't remember that part. Okay. There's a story of RT being accused of wearing a wire. Okay. And he does a very wide.

moved in a script change. Humans have scripts of how they interact with one another. He does a script change. So you guys actually just let the Black Panther out of the bag. Hey, let me say something. I was about to challenge Brent to do the same thing to prove it, thinking that I heard it on the podcast, but I just heard you say it.

And next week when everyone hears what RT Stewart does, the script change, I think it'll be worthwhile to think Misty almost challenged Brent to do the same thing. And I think I'll make everybody laugh. Okay. Especially because Britt would have no idea what I'm talking about. And for me to just say that.

Great. So Brent, Brent used to work undercover. For, you know, people that have fallen along would know that. Quote, unquote, used to. Yeah. And I mean, what a great cover would it be to say, I used to work undercover but don't anymore. Yeah.

And then to stay this long inside of it. So you used to do undercover narcotics. Yeah. For how long a period of your life? About 16 years. 16 years. Mm-hmm. That's a long time.

It was a lot. a long time. Britt, how long did you, what was the longest you ever stayed undercover? Probably,

I'm going to guess about four or five months at a time. We usually could get it done in that length of time. Yeah, it was drug stuff. So. Yeah, you're not,

I mean, you're not, once you build a, once you build a case, you get two or three buys on somebody. It took longer to get in than it did to actually do it.

So, and what I should probably explain. It took longer. Like in the podcast, R.T. talked about developing the social stuff. Well, there wasn't any money exchanging hands when you're hunting illegal turkeys, but with the idea that somebody's going to get paid, if they get one sliver of, okay, I think I can trust this guy, dead presidents will get you into some place that you normally couldn't go. And, I mean, you know, money, you flash enough money.

And I've even, I think I told the tale on here one time I had an informant. that went up knocked on the door and it's all recorded and the guy comes out and he says his name wasn't bob but i'll say he'll say bob i know you working for the police but you get that money in your hand so i'm going to sell to you so a lot of the motivation for that does the money man but i mean it's like what good does money do you when you're in jail well i mean he said i know when he said i know he was just he was gambling oh he was gambling and he wasn't but he wanted him to know that, you know, I know in the past you have been an informant, but this person also had a drug problem, and this guy knew it. So up until the time he was working for us,

he was probably buying from this guy. Okay, I understand. I was thinking it was you, you went to the door trying to buy. It was an informant working for you. That particular time was, was an informant that did it. Yeah. But, you know, you move into a play, a lot of the techniques and stuff that he was using, I did the same thing. You move into a place and you work there and you hang out in the places where those places those folks are and you know you develop a rapport with them now it was it was easy because i never once had any inclination of like or affection for any of the folks i was dealing with and it's it's easy to see how because you're just that perfect well he they they they wouldn't killing turkeys you know they were that's right

this is a little different yeah they were spreading cocaine and methamphamphamphos Phatamine and heroin, you know, whatever it was that we were targeting. That's what they were putting in the community. So it was, I got a lot of satisfaction from getting them off the street. Yeah. So you never had that, like they talked in this podcast about that phenomenon where you actually, you know, develop closeness to. No. You never had that.

And RT did some undercover narcotic work. This wasn't on the podcast. And he said he hated it just because it was so rough. Like buying drugs, you know, there's, it was just rough people all the way around. And in the poaching rings he was in, it was a lot of rough people. But it was a different crowd of people. Oh, 100%. And he was involved in something that he was passionate about.

So it's not like a narcotics guy is going to be passionate about, hopefully not passionate about narcotics, wanting to get the illegal sale of them off the ground. You see what I'm saying. Yeah. I understood. It was just a different, it was a different world. Well, I don't, you know, I don't, that's kind of not true. It was absolutely my goal every day I went to work to get as much as I could off the street.

Right, right. I remember one year in particular, we got an award from then Governor Huckabee. For every $1 of money that we spent out of our budget, we got $300 worth of drugs for a year off the street. At the end of the year, when we tallied up what we spent, Really? From super efficient. Yeah, absolutely. Well, and I wasn't saying that you guys didn't like doing what you're doing.

I was just saying you weren't like, R.T.'s passionate about turkey hunting. Oh, yeah. So he stopped and turkey poachers. You guys won't, that was my point. I understand what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah, it was interesting. It was, it was hard.

It was scary at times. It was probably the best part of my career and the worst part for my home life. but it was it was eventful can you tell us the story of when your life was threatened or you were scared or there was something like your cover was busted anything entertain us did you ever have your cover busted no um I didn't and we were really careful about that we worked and we tried that's reason I moved you know different places was once you get known in the area once the bust out comes when you make all the cases that you can make in an area and you arrest everybody, it's just like RT.

Then you got to go to court for the ones that don't want to plead guilty, you know, and make a deal. And I don't want anybody to think that I'm making a deal. You know, if you're selling methamphetamine or cocaine or anything like that to schedule, the drugs that fall in the category of what they call a class Y, which in Arkansas is punishable. from 10 to 40 to life in prison. They wasn't taking,

we wasn't getting somebody that was selling, you know, ounces and pounds of methamphetamine and giving them five years in the penitentiary and, you know, probation. They were pleading to, you know, 25 years, 30 years in prison to even go on the court. You know, there was one guy in particular down in South Arkansas in Union County, and I had bought from him hand-to-hand, I don't know, five or six times.

And that was one that it took about, about three months to do I guess and I finally got to deal with him direct and he was going they were going to do the discredit the officer thing you know what RT was saying and that's that's what they that's really their only game when they got you know photo and video evidence and a hand to hand by from a police officer and they offered him the prosecutor offered him 25 years uh in the penitentiary to plead guilty he's like no he said nope I'll take him and I'm going to court. And he went to court, and they charged him with two counts, and he got 45 years on each one of them. Oh, wow. Ouch. So that pretty...

Did he serve the whole time? Yeah, he's in prison now. Really? Yeah. I wonder if he listens to this podcast. I hope so. Hey, Robert. He did.

That's wild. What do you think of that, Dad? It's pretty interesting, man. I just can't believe that you can do that, live. Yeah. And I would think that somebody would be after you today, you know. You know, it was more or less, and we put a lot of folks in prison.

But a lot of them had the mindset that their job was to sell drugs and our job was to catch them. If they got away with it, we lost. And if we called them, we won. And they pretty well let it go with that. You know, there's been a few threats, but nothing was ever carried out, nothing that, we even took serious. And we went to great lengths to keep our home addresses and our families out of the other deal,

out of the reports, anything that could be, you know, found under discovery laws. And this is also before Facebook. Yeah. You know, that's a challenge.

I wanted to say, I had a couple people mentioned to me. They said, hey, how can you tell all this stuff and it not be hurting law enforcement? operations may be going on right now. And to be honest with you, I don't have a real good answer for that. Well, I can answer that.

Okay. The technology is well beyond anything that was talked about. They're not sending in people like that? Sure. But the old poach coach with the VCRs and all of that. Yeah. No. Don't need it anymore.

Don't need it. There's other ways. And I mean, I won't get specifics about it. But no, there's other ways to do it. Have anything to do with? hiding cameras and overalls. Could be. You never know. And pocket watches.

Pocket watches? It reminds me. Look at that pocket. Brent's pulling out of a pocket watch. That looks good. Oh, wow. It's got a clear top on it. Beautiful pocket watch.

Well, that is what, so the, what God has started on all this was when I did the series on Luedale and Charlie Edwards. And just as the story unfolded, like it was like real journalism. I really don't think of myself as a journalist, but that's what that was, Misty. Real journalism. Thanks for telling me.

And as the story unfolded, a man came to me and said, hey, I know, a law enforcement guy came to me and said, I know the guy. And how to contact him of who worked undercover to try to get Lou Del and Charlie. And so I go and talk to Russ Arthur. And that's kind of when this whole undercover interest popped up. And so Isaac and I were interviewing Chip Gross in Ohio for the Lewis Wetzel podcast, which was requested by Steve Ronella. Louis Wetzel is a serial killer. And Chris and Gail Gross and the Louis Dale and Charlie Edwards stuff had just come out.

And I say, hey, we just did a big thing about these turkey poaching outlaws in Arkansas. Chip Gross says, well, guess what? I'm a former Ohio game warden. And I wrote a book about R.T. Stewart, who's still alive, retired. and that's how all this started. Wow. And so, and I drove up to Ohio on like the 24th of October, drove there by myself and met with RT and talked with him for like three hours.

And it was, it was really interesting. Just RT's an interesting guy. You know, you only get so, you're getting the cherry-picked parts of these, of these interviews, you know. Right. It was, I mean, you know, and you guys have heard the whole story, but I've had some people say that they don't like this dark stuff. But America is fascinated with crime.

The number one podcast in the world is a crime junkie. Did you know that, Isaac? You're the assistant to the producer of Bear Grays podcast. I just listened to it. Crime junkie? The story that we were talking about earlier. That was the one my dad sent me. Yeah.

I am not fascinated. That's what you listened to. That was the podcast I listened to earlier. What were you going to say, Misty? I'm not fascinated with it. I'm not, I don't judge people who are. I'm just saying, for me personally, I can't. I remember reading crime and punishment.

Okay. And not being able to sleep, having not, like I actually had to stop reading the book. I was pregnant with bear. And it could have, I don't know, had something to do with that. But I remember reading, just, I just can't handle that, delving into the dark parts of peoples like that level. You know what I told a guy on Instagram the other day? No.

I said the only way we really appreciate the light is to understand the darkness. Yeah, that was pretty good. And I said something like that, but there's a touch of that that's really true. It sounds like a funny cover, but to me it's interesting in this country of law and order that we live in, like in our society obeying laws. The rule of law. The rule of law is deeply insubly. side of all of us.

It's why we stop at stoplights at 2 in the morning. And you pop out and don't know it, but you're born into a society that is fixated on laws. I mean, even when you think about the politics of the country, politics is all about, you know, this much government or that much government. It's all about rule of law. If you look at traffic in this country versus traffic in other countries, you see the rule of law. You see, like, if you travel to, that's where I've seen the rule of law. is just watching how people obey stoplights when no one's watching, when there's no police around,

when it's past, you know, time. And then you go to other countries in the midst of rush hour, and people are like, there's just no regard for the law whatsoever. Yeah. And that is uniquely. Right. And so when we look at the North American model of wildlife conservation, and we see it as the most successful animal husbandry effort of humans ever,

it has been based upon a group of people that were, for the most part, willing to obey the law, which is so wild because there was no law until the turn of the 20th century in the 1900s. There was market hunting. So the Europeans that came over here, unregulated hunting, no rules, no law. The market dictated, like, how many deer you could kill, how many. many this you could kill. And then wildlife populations plummeted. Roosevelt, Boone and Crocket Club, all these guys came in and said, hey, we got to manage these things. We got to put laws in. All these state game agencies started popping up out of nowhere around the 1900. They instituted

game laws. There was a generation of people that despised it because they were like, what? This is just like Europe. Because the mentality was they'd come from Europe where the peasants, normal people, non-rich people, didn't have access to wildlife. Then we come over here and they're like, hey, this is going to become just like Europe. And Roosevelt was like, nah, just trust me.

This is all going to be good. And then we just like worked through this journey to get to like, let's just say this is arbitrary time. But like about the time dad started bow hunting and deer populations started rising, turkey populations started rising. it was like, hey, we all pretty much need to obey the law.

And from that, some didn't, but for the most part, people obey the law, and that's such a critical thing. So to me, that's why it's interesting. It's not just like crime. But I also think it's interesting to me because I have spent the better part of my life really trying to follow the rules. So when I see someone that just absolutely doesn't follow the rules, I'm just like, who is this guy? And I got that from Gary Newcomb. Really? You said you always just kind of enjoyed just looking at people who were a little bit crazy.

Yeah, yeah. Would you describe it like that? Yeah, absolutely. It was entertaining. I mean, I didn't like it, but it was so opposite of the way I was raised. It was like entertainment to see how crazy some of these people were. What did you think about this series so far? You know, I think it's excellent.

I enjoy crime and punishment, you know. I'm attracted to it, and I think a lot of it just has to do the way I was raised up. Did you just say that you're attracted to crime? Well, you know, I like to watch what's going on out there. And this is no exception. It's very good. Yeah. Very good.

I do have one complaint, though. Okay, let's hear it. You know, I mean, you got a pretty good gig going here, but the music, when you start this podcast, it sounds like it's on a, record where the needles going back and forth. On the render. On the render. I mean, no, I don't know where it is.

We don't deserve the crisp music. Yeah. That's for the polish. That's for the ballics. What you're referring to is the is the music for the render. On the render it goes

and then it it comes in full. You don't like that. I don't like that. But you're saying that's intentional. Yeah. 100% Oh,

you guys are full of it, man. You got to be kidding. I'm not even joking at all. What's good about it? I don't know. Phil Taylor did it. Tell Phil to fix it. Phil?

Phil. Do you know what I'm talking? You know what I'm talking? It's a good effect. It's an effect. It's just a little spice of life. Yeah, because it catches you off guard. It's like a script change.

You think you're going to come in and hear this. But then you're like, wait a minute. It sounds something's wrong with this. It's symbolic. It kicks in. Well, see, the smart people figure that out. But when you've got an IQ of around 60, you're like, going, what? That's the only good.

And a lot of your audience is right there with me. Gary, is this the first time you caught that? I mean, you know. Are you saying Clay's audience has a low IQ? Well, like me. Like me, yeah. I mean, some of it. Any audience does.

Sure. So, anyway, I'd like Taylor to, is it Taylor? Phil Taylor. get that fix man he'll keep it what stood out to you was there any part of it that you just you liked I mean

to me the stories of you know the individual stories some of them I just really enjoyed you know I listened to that three times and I just liked every bit of it period but on the way up here I thought

you know I'm going to come up with something it's my favorite thing and you know what I'm going to say and I it's pretty close to the truth when you said, boys, get to popcorn out. You know, the jury. When they were going to watch the VHS tapes. Yeah. The judge and jury is going to watch the tape,

get to popcorn out. I enjoyed it. You know, just all of it. I mean, the whole thing, and it was just really intriguing to me, and I think it was one of my favorite overall. Really? I mean, it doesn't probably stack up with Daniel Boone or some of the others.

It's historically, you know, you get into some really cool stuff. But entertainment-wise, it was up there pretty high for me. Yeah. Josh, what was your favorite part of what you've heard so far? I think I'm just fascinated with the psychology of being an undercover agent. Yeah. And just having to, like, constantly live a lie in such a way that your lie becomes your reality. And I think that's, I can't quite wrap my mind around that, how that affects.

the way you think and the way that you see life, how you connect with people that you genuinely have a relationship with, and then just the fact of building relationships with people that you're going to have to arrest. You know what I mean? It's got to throw you into turmoil. It takes a very unique individual to be able to do that. Yeah. You know, I think the average person couldn't couldn't do that. And so just listening to him talk and even how he would talk to you and just kind of be like, is that the truth? Did I tell you the truth? You know what I mean? It was just like, it's like, wow, I can't, I can't imagine what that's like just having that dichotomy inside so long that the dichotomy disappears. And I wonder sometimes like, do you, do you, are you able to

differentiate between what's reality and what's not? It's pretty fascinating. And, But I also like hearing him say, you know, I recognize what this has done to my family. And, you know, it put a lot of strain on my relationships. And, you know, I regret that. You know, I think the work that I did was good, but I regret the, you know, what it did to my family. I think, I think that takes a, it takes an honest, it takes a self-evaluative person to be able to look at that and admit that with humility. And so I think that, you know, I don't know what his life is like now, but I think he probably, you know, spends a lot more time investing in things that are valuable in his life. On Blood Trails, the stories don't end when the hunt is over.

They just get darker. I've seen something in the road. I instantly thought it was a sleeping bag. And there was a full of blood. Oh, my God, he doesn't have a hit. Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors, where the, the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce, and the truth gets buried under brush and silence. Indications were he should be right there, but he wasn't.

This season, we're going deeper, from cold case files to whispered suspicions, from remote mountains to frozen backwoods. Each story begins in the wilderness and ends in darkness. Because out here, there are no witnesses, no cameras, just fragments and the people left behind. trying to piece them back together. He's not an honest person. He's incapable of being honest. Somebody somewhere knows something. I'm Jordan Sillers.

Season 2 of Blood Trails premieres April 16th. Follow now on Apple, IHeart, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, I think that idea of an undercover agent getting close to somebody is something that you typically wouldn't think about. And the main reason I thought about it was because of Lou Dale and Charlie.

typically we have a really easy easy time like just talking about a criminal just very derogatively just like criminals of course anybody would you know go in undercover and would be thrilled to turn these guys in which is

a true story but it's a little more nuanced than that and that's the whole thing about Louis Dill and Charlie that was the whole story the whole part of that series that was so interesting is that these were actually to many people really likable people, but also these outlaws. And so I think that's, and then, you know, R.T's just a random agent that kind of picked out of the hat. And I go to him and I say, hey, were you ever really close to somebody that you had respect for? And he's, you know, yep, sure was.

There was this one guy. So, and then I talked to Matthew Sharps, Dr. Matthew Sharps, who says this is really common. So that's an interesting thing. And that's where you can't take the human out of the equation. And human beings being susceptible to relationship, susceptible to liking someone, susceptible to seeing something good in someone, even if there's some bad stuff. So, I mean, I think that's a good thing. I was honestly surprised the other way.

I felt like I was a little bit surprised that he only had a close relationship with one person. Like, I feel like when you're around people, and this probably speaks to the character of the people that he was around and that we're making a career out of poaching. But just like, I feel like I can start to empathize with or, you know, have a person-to-person relationship with just about anybody if I'm given enough time around them. But I think that's kind of remarkable that there was really only one that he was like, man, I feel bad for this guy. The rest of them? No feelings whatsoever. I took out part of what he said because it was so hard at one point when I said, what about these other guys?

And he just said, they're despicable people. I mean, like, strongly language than that. Yeah. And, I mean, just like when he, they asked the defense lawyer, asked him if he smoked dope with a guy, and he said, yeah, I did. I believed RT when he said they were despicable people. Because he also was like, target number two was actually a pretty good guy. Yeah.

Just caught up in a bad part of his life. And, oh, man, I can't spill the beans too much because there are no beans, Josh. There's no beans. But I would love to talk to Target number two. I know who he is. Oh, really? Know where he lives. Really?

Oh. I mean, I don't know, like, the address of his house. Is he one of our relatives? I know where the guy's at. And I think he actually, I think that he's actually a really good, good guy now. I would suspicion that he would talk to you. I bet you he's one of these guys that says, hey, man, I got kind of trapped up. And, man, I regret it.

And I got a wonderful family. And I got a great job. And I look back on that period. And, you know, I mean, who knows? That's my instinct, too. And I'm actually trying to reach out to the guy right now. That would be awesome if you could. Hey,

Hey, one thing that I'd like to comment on what Josh said, I know Misty has a comment on that too, but, you know, to be a law enforcement guy, you got to have a certain makeup, you know,

I mean, you got to want to want to do it. It's like his little kids, you know, I want to be a cowboy, I want to be a policeman, I want to be there. You know,

I mean, it's like, and a lot of these guys end up doing it, you know, so our society's kind of geared to where we can fill all spaces, you know, so, but to be a cop,

I don't know what it is, but to be an undercover guy, it'd be real interesting to see what the makeup is of these undercover guys. I would think adrenaline junkie. You know, I mean, you're stepping into a high every day. Every day when you wake up, you're just going, ah! You know, I can die today. You know, I mean, so somehow you kind of like that. I don't know. I'd say that's right.

I would have to absolutely say that that's right. And to the point that you sacrifice everything else because of it. Would it be addictive? Yeah, very much so. And it was all encompassing. I missed funerals. I missed visitations because somebody called and I had to go when I didn't have to, but I wanted to. And I didn't want to go because I didn't want to be with my family.

wanted to go because there was somebody else to catch and I needed, and I thought that I needed to go do that. And it all, it all came full circle to me one morning. It was on a Saturday. And I had taken my son to eat breakfast. We'd gone to eat breakfast at a little cafe. And we were sitting there eating. And he was, you know, during this time, my brother and I, we still had the guide service

going and we had Labrador's at home. This is all going to make sense in a minute. Okay. And we were sitting at the table, eating breakfast, and I was facing the door, obviously, and my son was back was to the door. He's five or six years old. And a truck goes by that had a yellow lab and a black lab in it. And I said, Hunter, there goes a truck with two labs in it. And without turning around, he looked up with me and said, meth labs? Oh, and that was the That was a pretty hard thing

But that was his first thought And we had Labradors at home And his first thought Because that's all he heard me talk about You know And you know Where's Daddy at? He's working a meth lab

You know At that time there was only Four or five of us south Little Rock that were Meth Labs certified To take down Meth Labs And you had to have this DEA

training. Now we went to Quantico and had all this training to be able to dismantle them because they were so hazardous. Yeah. And we were averaging, you know, sometimes five or six a month. Wow. And we were going everywhere. And it was just a real time-consuming thing. And it was at the height of the methamphetamine plague and, you know, in Arkansas in this part of the country. So, I mean, that was he should that should never been his first thought and that was his first thought so it came pretty well full circle there and yet i still did it for another six or seven years before i could you know transfer your drive to be successful at what you were doing was it sounds like it might be more than the adrenaline high the addiction you know i got a i had a i enjoyed testifying in court

I enjoyed a challenge. I loved it when they wouldn't. I loved going to court because I wanted people to know what we were doing and what these folks were doing. And it was a challenge to me. I never, you know, there were a lot of officers that didn't like defense attorneys. I absolutely loved it. And I, like, man, do your job.

If you can beat me, beat me. I never lost because I put so much into it. And I wasn't by myself, our whole crew. We never lost a case that went to court. because we knew the challenges and stuff that they were looking for. And that was, it was vital, important to me to go beyond what we needed to do to ensure that when we laid it out there on a piece of paper, if they had any sense, they would say, look, there's no, yeah, we're not going to go to court.

Yeah. Another reason I like testifying in court, it was the only time that I knew in a room that I was sitting in that when I was talking, everybody was listening to me. Oh, me. A lot of similarities there between you undercover guys and war heroes. I mean, you know, you've got a family at home, but you want to go back to Afghanistan. I mean, you want to be a sniver. You know, you got this, you're focused.

So, you know, a lot of kutos of these guys. I mean, it's just, it's pretty cool what they're doing and the sacrifices and the benefit that comes from it for our society. Yeah. Yeah. Brent, what stood out to you as a favorite part being knowing that game? Like, was there a part, just that you enjoyed? I knew what he was going to say when you asked him, was it worth it? Because it wasn't worth it to me either. At the time it was.

But when you ask him and he said, no, it wasn't. But that's what stood out the most to me. There was a lot of similarities. He was telling stories and all. the stuff that he talked about gathering the cases and making the case and being with those folks and having to be in the places that he was, you know, the thing stood out about the cover almost being blown. That was crazy.

Yeah, that happened. That happened. We had been invited by a law enforcement or a sheriff of a county in South Arkansas that was suspect to us to begin with. but he had invited us to come work on a problem, a methamphetamine ring down there in that area, and we went down there, but we didn't tell him we were coming,

and we went in this bar that, uh, and we were, there was three of us in there working, and of course he had no clue that we were down there. Sure. Correct, and who do we see, walking the door where there an hour and a half walks in, walks in, walks behind the bar,

fixes itself a drink, and then walks back out. And everybody in there was in the methamphetamine tray. So you think he was on the inside of it? Oh, I didn't say that. He's no longer alive. He was no longer a sheriff shortly after that. Really?

Yeah. But we'll call him target number three. All he had to do was to look where he was at because he knew all of us. All he had to done was looked at where we were set. And because we, I mean, we were all looking at each other like, what's going on? What's going on? You know, because there's no windows in that place. And I was looking to crawl out one because that could have ruined a whole bunch of stuff.

But luckily, he never looked at us. He didn't see us. Never knew we were there. So I can, I empathize with that. I know how that feels. I also know how it feels. It wouldn't. I'm very proud of the stuff that I did, but I wouldn't do it again.

and even though I miss it I wouldn't do it not anymore you're safe yeah dad what do you say that I think it's real high

I think if we could I think what we ought to do is have him stripped no I don't want him to do that please don't that's what I'm saying has Clay talked about that yet no

that's on the third after I just told you all about that. Ms. Newcomb, what stood out to you? What was your favorite part? Well, I thought, I mean, it really is, I do, I don't like getting in on the dark side of people's inner conscious, but I do enjoy, like, crime and law and order and shows, you know, I enjoy, I don't enjoy, you know, criminal activity, but, but, like Josh was saying the psychology of what he was doing, I don't think I could do it.

I don't think I, I really don't think, we were talking to one of our daughters last night. I was telling her a story about a situation that I got in where someone was asking me questions and I knew to answer them would actually reveal some information about a different person that would diminish their reputation in the eyes of the person I was talking to. So I didn't answer fully. I answered honestly, but I didn't answer fully. I didn't tell the whole story. And I said when I walked away, I kind of felt sick because I felt like I was.

I had lied to them, even though I didn't lie. I was, like, really careful to tell the truth. But I think I would be a hot mess in a situation where I was every single day having to portray myself differently than, like, who I, I would just be so incredibly difficult. I thought it was crazy all the close calls he came to. Like when he was talking about the people overhearing from the other room, the guys, I mean, that's, that is crazy. Yeah.

See, that's just the ones that he knew about. Oh, and that's just the ones on this case. Yeah, I mean. This was a small part of its full career. Who knows, you know, how many times I walked around a corner and somebody walked out of a store or something, you know, that, hey, I know that guy. Yeah. Well, I was just thinking about, like, the idea of the poach coach, like, I'm a pretty curious person,

and I can't imagine sitting in the back of the van and not just, like, looking around. You know, it's a cool thing, and you're just like, well. What's his VCR? Yeah, like, I feel like there are so much. You looked in my glove box while I went in the truck. Be honest. Have you ever looked at my console and looked at all that stuff? There's more stuff in my console.

You could live for six years. Well, I mean, like, if you died, like in 10,000 years, if they find your truck console, they can piece together your whole life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Isaac's been going through it while I was in the gas station. Go ahead. I'm formulating an anthropological sort of theory. This must have been a religious ceremony here.

No. But just like his turkey vest, he had a full on recorder in that. All it takes is one buddy to be like, what are you carrying there? Boom, over. Well, and that's what the third episode a lot is about. Because, so I told these stories,

like I told the whole story of Operation Redbud in Part 2. The first episode was kind of an overview of just undercover work in general. But there was so many small stories that were still left. that were just intriguing all on their own, that the third episode is going to be a lot of just like real, unique,

you know, clipped out stories of when wild stuff happened and he got out of stuff. Because that's what's so interesting to me. And he was just, it takes a lot of confidence. And Artie said that. And after I interviewed him and after I've done, spent so much time on this,

I see what he means. You can't hesitate. When someone does something, you just have to react. And most people will bow to confidence. I mean, unfortunately or fortunately, I don't know. But like if you say, you're RT Stewart, I know you, you were my archery coach back at that college. He's just like, you got me mixed up with somebody.

He was that guy good looking and rich. And he's like, well, he was good looking. he wasn't rich. Well, it wasn't me because I'm good looking and rich. I mean, just not miss a beat. Just like, this is who I am. Yeah. All the good narks I ever worked with all had senses of humor.

And we're just in the gift of gab. Yeah. You just go with the flow. Talk away through anything. Kind of like Brett Reed. That would be, though, that to constantly deceive people, I think, would be such a difficult, a difficult thing, like to go back to your family. and to have a habit of deceiving people all day long

and then have to go back to your family and be... Try to be normal. Yeah, that'd be so hard. Yeah. Have you ever done this? I'll often pick up a word or phrase in my vocabulary ironically. Like I heard somebody call somebody guy one time, and I felt like it was the most disingenuous thing I've ever heard.

Like, yeah, no problem, guy. And I'm like, that sounds weird. So I started... It's like someone guy with Fumann, she would say. Well, it is now because I started saying it, ironically, and then at some point in time, I just woke up and realized that it had crept into my lexicon, and now I say a guy. And I think in the same way... He called me guy last night. In the same way, you have these guys who like creep into this lifestyle, and then they wake up

someday, and they're like, am I, Bob? Am I? You know, like, I don't know, that would be a weird experience because it's not a, there's not like a turning point. It's just a series of decisions and a series of experiences. And then all of a sudden, you're like, man, I'm in pretty deep. I've been doing this for 15 months. Yeah. Am I into poaching now? Yeah. Am I a poacher now?

I want to come clean about an actual fear I have. Oh, okay. I have a fear that I'll be... I also want to hear what you think Elon Musk should do about Twitter. Go ahead. We'll talk about that at the end. That's a spoiler alert. Misty has some great advice for Elon Musk.

I don't know that it's that great. I'm pretty sure he listens to Bear Grease. So he'll hear it. I have a major fear that one day I will be called on to do undercover work. this is like actually has come up in my my thought life a lot like what if I'm called on to do undercover work and I have to break the law to do it like if the U.S. government flies a chopper in here and lands it in the dark exactly knocks on our door that's just how it happens and they tell me it's like Rambo what if they have what if they

have like an activation word like like pineapple and like all of a sudden you turn into someone you're a different person yeah okay carry on my concern is and every time I hear Brent talk about his undercover work, I'm always concerned that this is going to happen to him as well, that I will be asked to do illegal things, but never tell anyone. And there's only one person that knows. Exactly. And there's only one person that knows. And that person is either dirty or gets killed. And so no one knows that I'm actually innocent, but I'm just following orders. This is a really specific fear. It is. It is. It's because I, I, I think I've seen too many.

Yeah, sure. Can we talk about this? So, there's a movie about this. We talked about it. We talked about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's a very specific fear. And it has shown up in movies.

And what happens if that person, like, their family's like, wait, you've lived this double life? And you're like, no, actually, I didn't live this double life. When I was with you, I was honest. And when it's just interesting. I mean, like what happens. Yeah. Well, RT, RT, and this wasn't on the podcast. there's just too much, but one time RT was with the guys in Ohio,

and they planned to spur the moment trip, like way deep into West Virginia, and he wasn't supposed to cross state lines, or that wasn't a part of the plan, because you're going into another jurisdiction and all this, and he calls his boss, and it's like, hey, they want to go to West Virginia, and I kind of, like, have to go with them.

And he was like, okay. And so, only the boss was in RT were the only ones who knew he was over there. And he said it was kind of a, it was more to the story, but it was a unnerving thing for him to be in West Virginia. And he didn't even know where he was. This is the exact scenario that I would be afraid of. And if his boss is dirty or dies, he's in trouble. He's in big trouble.

Yes, if he gets arrested in West Virginia. Well, I mean, in all fairness, there are any number of ways that he could be in trouble. not just those two. I actually was surprised at how much he said that he was concerned about the legal ramifications of what he was doing. Oh, the murder plot?

Well, yeah, the murder plot, but just in general, like he was constantly walking the line of him going, him getting in trouble for what he was doing. Like he, like, has it been on the podcast yet

about when they robbed the gas station? Yeah. And he needed to video that and declared that he didn't know that that was going to happen. Because if it went to court, they might say, this guy's crooked. Put him in jail. So like, I asked him, I said, is there legal ramifications for you? And he said, oh, every day. He said, I had to really watch myself everything I did to make sure. So, you know, there's a lot at risk.

There's a psychological study where they basically told. people to do something mean? I mean, this is the real short version of it. Oh, yeah. You know what I'm talking about? And they found that people were willing to go very far doing terrible things. Yeah. As long as someone in charge told them to do it. Wow. The study was that they had, they were told they were being paid to do a study. They thought they were not the subject. They thought they were just participating in it. And the subject was answering questions. And every time they got a question wrong, they had to administer a shock. Every time they got it wrong,

it would go up. And to the point where... That's what they were told. That's what they were told. To the point where the fake subject is complaining of like heart pain or like, please stop, I don't want to do this anymore. And the administrator of the test. They just kept doing it.

Yeah. Kept nailing it. And they found that people were as long as they felt authorized. Yeah. That they were willing to go a lot. further than what you would be comfortable with. Hey, I'd like to read to you guys a email that I got, and I'm not going to say the name, so it's going to be fine.

But I got this email. I shared this with RT, and he was really thrilled about this. But this guy says, I was recently listening to episode 78 of the Bear Grease podcast, Secret Agent Man, and found myself overwhelmed with emotion and even moved to tears. My father is a retired undercover narcotics agent for nearly the first half of my life, I hardly saw him and certainly didn't know him.

I grew up feeling fatherless all the while my father was home most nights. They even took me to school in the morning, but that was the extent of our relationship. I knew of his career and idolized him for it, making up that he was a superhero and his duty was more important than my life. Coming of age, I soon began to resent and neglect,

resent his neglect and lack of relationship. And when he retired, he came home. pretended as if he'd always been home, and my resentment grew. You with me? Almost two decades later, after years of therapy, I've learned to accept him and know he did the best he could with no malice despite the abandonment I felt. Coming back to Clay's interview with RT,

I found myself in tears listening to RT's interpersonal struggle with coming to terms with his double life, even lamenting if given the choice he wouldn't make the same decision. This prompted me to ask my own father about his experience, something that's borderline taboo in my family. And he shares when he wants to, but we don't ask questions unprompted. Asking him if he struggled with coming home after being an undercover agent took an immense amount of courage.

His response was similar to RT's, and we were able to have the most honest conversation we've ever had. For the first time, he accepted his life was his work, and not us, and he wasn't around for me and my siblings. He accepted how difficult he was to live with and how hard. hard it was to live a double life similar to RT's experience mentioned in an interview at the end of the conversation I was able to tell him with all honesty how proud I was to be his son something I've never expressed nor felt until very recent I never expected a hunting podcast would mend

a lifelong wound I've carried for over 30 years wow man that's a big deal yeah I thought so Really, really great, great feedback. Yeah. Interesting. You know, sometimes, sometimes people have a calling that's so important, you know, that the bad that it creates, you know, they've offset it, you know. So, you know, where would we be without these undercover guys? you know, it's pretty important that we've got people that have the courage to do that. So, anyway, sacrifice to the family at times.

Yeah. Yeah. Everything does come with the cost. I mean, but, you know, the thing about it is is that you could have any kind of job and, you know, neglect. Same thing. It happens all the time. You know, if you're a work of a hundred. The workaholic, same thing.

But the motive is different. You know, the undercover guys helping our society. The workaholics helping his checking account. Last spring, Clay Newcomb and I collaborated with Jason Phelps at Phelps game calls and building each of our own favorite turkey diaphragms called prime cuts. Now, I'm going to tell you, I love mine because it's easy to use. I'm not going to go, I'm not going to win a turkey calling contest. It's just not going to happen.

but when I run this call, I get the sounds that gobblers are looking for. I have a great turkey hunting track record. If you go listen to real turkeys out in the woods, they're not going to win calling contests, right? That's who I listen to. I can make those sounds on my cut. I also hunt with Phelps's cut,

and I hunt with Clay's cut because they're all three great cuts. Check out Prime Cuts at Phelpsgamecalls.com. I think you'll be glad you do. did and you'll find out that the Steve Ronella cut is an easy to use cut for beginning callers who just want to start making good turkey noises and getting

action. Isaac, did you have a favorite part? I didn't specifically ask you yet. What stood out to you? Man, I think I said the big things, the idea of like just the happenstance of how many times he could have been found

out and wasn't. Yeah. And then the idea of just morphing into someone else, that's, I think, kind of an insidious and scary concept. And then, like, what does it look like to detox from that? Like, when you're done, like, how do you, like, remember the old RT? I think that's pretty fascinating. I was struck in this by how cavalier and quick to trust the targets were. Yeah.

I just feel like I would be really cagey if I was like operating in this large criminal activity and then like you meet a new guy and you're like, what are you doing Thursday? Yeah. I can see how that would seem that way. I think there's a way to think about it though that these guys probably didn't think what they were doing

was that bad. Yeah, that's probably fair. That's what we learned when we talked about Louis Del and Charlie from everybody is like it just in there in that part of the world and that time it was just like this really wasn't that big of a deal that's what they thought and then

at that time there weren't undercover agents yeah I mean that in Ohio so like this was like what years was it 95 and 96 okay is when all this went down Misty do you uh so everybody knows that Elon Musk has bought Twitter.

Misty, what advice would you have for him? Listen. Misty, how many people do you think you've hired in your lifetime? How many people have I hired? Yeah. 100? Oh, yeah. 200?

I mean, right now I have 50-something people working. Misty knows what it's like to run a big company and hire a fire. It's a global company. Yeah. Elon Misty. No, the problem here is that Clay and I are driving to Shep's basketball game. And just the two of us in the car, I just started spouting out what I feel like Elon Musk is doing. And I have a little mercy towards them because he reminds me a lot of some of my students.

I was a principal for nine years. Our school had at that time 70% male population. That's big, practically a boys' school. And it wasn't designed to be that way, but that's what we got. And the way Elon Musk is behaving right now reminds me a little bit of a lot of boys' kids. who've been sent to my office. And I was just telling, Clay, like I kind of, I have the same feeling for Elon Musk that I have for the boys that get sent to my office.

Like, you know, you see 90% of his income, of Twitter's income is dependent on advertising dollars. And he's kind of self-destructing right now where all of that money is being pulled. And there's this part of Elon Musk that's like, hey, guys don't leave. You could trust me. He writes this letter to all that donor saying, give me a chance, let me prove to you. But then the other part of Elon Musk is like, has this crowd of people cheering for him.

Yep. And he's like, I kind of like that attention. Yeah. And so he like impulsively does things to respond to that crowd. And it's just total self-destruction. So what I want to tell him is Elon, lock yourself in a room. Yeah. Get a couple advisors that you really trust.

Let's slow this down a little bit. Yeah. And they're losing $4 million a day. I know. That's what he said. Yeah. It's like, don't say the company's going bankrupt. Don't just maybe don't be a, don't get on Twitter right now.

I don't have really deep. I don't have deep things. It's just, just kind of a general feeling of like, ah, buddy. Yeah, just come on, guy, you got this. Because, like, you see, he kind of wants to be. So, yeah. When I acquired Bear Honey magazine in the midsummer of 2013, I'll never forget. You did the same thing.

I was advised. to not change a thing for at least a year. Like, don't even let people know that it's changed hands. Yes, Clay Newcomb. Did you keep it that way for a year? Pretty much. He did. I had an editor that was working that stayed on the magazine for two years.

He was doing a job that I actually did his job, but he was getting the credit for, just like I kept his face in the magazine. I pretty much kept things the same. That's what I would, if Elon were here, which he might be on the Bear Greas render one day. Bill Clinton, too. I want Bill Clinton, Elon Musk, Gary Newcomb.

Who else could be in there? I have advice for all these people. Please include me on this room. I mean, I would need all of you. We'd have to get three more mics. Two more mics. Can you work that out? Be wild on Mike.

Yeah, I'll set it. I'll just sit out. You know, I have... You just take pictures. I have real strong feelings about Elon, and I would say, let the guy do whatever he thinks is right. I mean, look at his net worth.

Have you ever looked at his net worth? Do you see how much it's declined in the last couple weeks? Hey, he's taking that risk. In the end, he'll get it back. Misty said that he has... And maybe other people have said, I just heard Misty said, I get most of my information from life from Misty.

It's true. I think I told him not to change anything about B.H.N. Elon has a, like Alex Honnold, who climb, free climbs, and he has this incredible ability to deal with danger, like an unusual amount, lack of ability to have fear. Risk averse. No, no, no, it's the opposite. Elon Musk appears to just be like, hey, if I, if this goes south,

it's no big deal. It's really like a phenomenon among teenage boys where they have risk taking behavior that they don't have the ability to, they don't have a fully developed prefrontal cortex. And so they, and not just teenage boys. How do you think Brent is developing? It should be good by 21, but I don't know, he might have done some things. You know, the brain is a dynamic thing.

And so people take, they take risk without calculating the cost. It's why a lot of people end up just aging out of crime and drug use. because they get that prefrontal cortex. It's an amazing thing. It helps you kind of calculate risk. So I just think his, and that's been successful for him. Like that has been a massive point of success for him. So he takes bigger and bigger risk.

The problem is at some point, and gosh, I hope everything's okay with Alex Honnold, too, because I kind of like him. At some point. We'll put out of Clinton, Alex Honnold, Elon Musk. Alex Honnold's going to die from climbing. It makes me so nervous that one day he's going to take a risk. that he can't, it's like he's going to take the one just too far. Yeah, but I think the people like that, and this may pour it over to Elon Musk as well,

it's like, I can't not. Yeah. Like there is something inside of me that drives me to do this. But when you look at all, and it's, it's to be nitpicky, it's free soloing. Yeah, what did I say? Free climbing. Free climbing is like, there's aid climbing, which was like traditional alpinism where you're using all the gear to get up.

Free climbing. Free climbing is when you just climb. No, you can use. safety gear, but you use your body to get up the rock and then free soloing is no safety gear. Just climbing. Yep. Just climbing. I just think that it's like a risk.

Like these guys who take these big risks can be very successful. And that risk-taking behavior, it's, we had a separate conversation that I won't quote here, but where I was saying like sometimes, sometimes life rewards those risk takers huge. Oh, yeah. And he has been rewarded hugely. And it's clear he's, there's no way. he could do what he's doing, he really very much reminds me of some students I've had

in my office who are brilliant, who have a very sharp mines. Who's dad owned an emerald mine in South Africa. Reminds me a lot of when I bought Izzy off Craigslist. It was a big gamble. Fired half the stuff. Paid off big. Took everything I had.

Cut the meals. He said I was crazy. But paid off big. And look at you now. Yeah, look at me now. Hey, dad, tell us about, I meant to do this right at the beginning. This is the most exciting thing. So you were a little bit younger than Bill Clinton.

Yeah. How much younger? Two years. So I was a sophomore when he was a senior. And you went to Hot Springs High. Right. My sister graduated with him. Sandy.

She was in the class with him. Right. Over the years, has gone to high school reunions, even when he was. Right. Right. He would invite his high school senior class to the governor's mansion, then to D.C. When he had a big event, he invited his senior class to come. Yeah. So what do you remember about Clinton in high school? Well, in high school, it's really interesting to me to look at high school because it's all like peer groups.

Everybody's developing inside and you're looking at the cool guys, the hoods. you know, different groups of people. And he had the hoodlums. If you're my age, we had hoodlums. And hoods, we call them hoods. Yeah. Today is probably the- And Brown used that term when he was talking about Louisdale up on the sky lift.

He said, a couple of hoodlums coming up. I mean, yeah, these guys smoked, you know, in my, you know. So anyway, Bill was, I didn't know Bill. I mean, you know, we would speak maybe. in the hallway. Hello. You weren't like his friend. No, no, no, not even close.

Yeah. He wasn't my kind of guy, man. He was too smart. I mean, he played in the band. He was just a neat guy. He dressed neat. Everybody liked him. He went to church.

You know, he was just, he wasn't in the elite group of your high school, but, you know, he was just kind of a neat guy to be so smart, you know. And you would have, you really think you would have recognized that, even if he hadn't become president? Oh, yeah, yeah. If you just said, how you remember Bill Clinton? What did you think about him? You probably figured he'd be a successful state farm agent.

I never thought much about the guy, really. I mean. Sure. When did he start coming into Arkansas politics and you're like, hey, I went to high school that guy? Yeah, Lieutenant Governor, probably. In the 70s? Yeah.

So when did you graduate high school? 66. So 10 years later, you're like, Bill Clinton. Yeah, yeah. You know, which wasn't surprising. It didn't surprise me. Governor didn't surprise me. Yeah.

President, surprise me. Hey, do you know, I remember when he was running, so I would have been like 12 or 13 years old, and I remember walking out of the house with you, you were taking us to school, and you were dressed up and your suit and tie going to the bank. And I just remember the moment when you laughed, and you said, you said, oh, Bill Clinton's probably going to be president. I could just tell you were, you were like excited and kind of surprised. And I'll never forget that for some reason because I was like,

huh, Bill Clinton's going to be president. I guess that's a big deal. Slick, slick willy. Is that what? Yeah, yeah. Slick Willie. Slick Willie. Did you ever see him not in hell?

No, no. But you know what? I don't doubt that. It probably isn't true. But, I mean, you know, it could have gone either way. Well, if I, something happens to me in the next couple weeks. It's either target number one or two that heard this podcast or it's the Clintons. Yep.

But your handler was a nice guy in high school. Yeah. Very nice guy, very intelligent. Everybody liked him. But what I said about you staying clean and sober, true story. True story. Unless you want to come out now. No, I'm not coming out.

I mean, I was a good dad and tried. That was all a lie, man. No, no, no. It is kind of unusual, too, because when I moved to this small town that I live in now, a lot of the guys my age didn't drink and do crazy stuff in high school. And I thought, what? I mean, in Hot Springs, it was just like, you know, it was, you know, it was different. It was very different in Hot Springs.

And that would have been, in our world, a big city. Yeah. Yeah. Hot Springs. Yeah. Yeah. Which would have been a town of like 30,000. Yeah.

To us was like a metropolis. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway. Billy Boy. Billy Boy was a nice guy. And then your mother knew his mother. And we're kind of lifelong acquaintances in the town in Hot Springs.

Is that about right? Probably. I mean, she knew. She knew. I don't know how close they were. Yeah. She didn't talk about it. I remember.

I remember Emily. saying that she I mean I remember her telling stories of seeing Miss Clinton like in town and them talking and like you know and probably she was highlighting that because at the time you know he was president so

but yeah interesting and my sister she's pretty good looking girl I would I'd call her before she'd take off to DC be careful while you're up there Oh my goodness. You can cut that out.

Of all the things, that's the first thing he says. It's true story. It's a true story. Well, you never know. You never know. We were in Washington, D.C. yesterday. We were. Misty and I were in Washington, D.C. yesterday.

You heard it here first. He's about to announce his candidacy for office. CB. Play, baby. He's wearing a tie today. I have wearing a tie. Somebody that saw that GQ video that I did, people wouldn't know it as a GQ video,

but the breakdown, the breakdown videos that you've been seen on Meteeter, media's Instagram is a spoof off of GQ doing a breakdown of movies and stuff. And somebody said when they saw me with a, like a suit on that they thought I was running for governor, or, you know, they thought I was running for political office. Yeah.

And so, but no, that's not true. I have one other thought before you close this thing down. I didn't like it under your, under Louisdale and Charlie, and I can't remember how it worked in, but I didn't like it that the guy couldn't kill a turkey. I mean, you're like going, okay, I'm going to send you out to where you can possibly get killed, but you can't kill a turkey.

They can kill you, but you can't kill a turkey. And I'm going, I think there's something wrong with that. I mean, you wouldn't want to just say go kill all the birds in the world, but I mean, you know, shoot the bird. Well, I don't like that. I think he had, they had the liberty to be able to do that, but I think just the better part of discretion and for building a case, like if they showed up in the court and they said,

target number one killed 50 and I killed 49. You know, that's an exaggeration. No, no, no. And I'm the undercover agent. Yeah, yeah. So I think they felt the freedom too, but they just tried not to. Is that true, Brent? That's correct.

Okay. You know, that was one of the biggest challenges. You always think about the challenge is having an alternative, you know, identity and life and everything. They didn't have any rules, and we did. Right. That was the hard part. Yeah, I mean, him shooting a 22, so he could miss.

I'm like going, hey, man, you got the wrong guy. Go get Misty to go undercover. I'm not doing this. So anyway, very good. Yep. Is that because I can't shoot a 22? I love it. Hey, another thing, I was real curious about the sentences.

I mean, that intrigues me. You know, okay, this guy got six months, this guy got six years. They didn't go to jail. If you want to hear about that, good luck, because there is nothing about this on the internet. I looked it up. And you know what I found was Bear Grease Render? I mean, the Bear Grease podcast was like, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. About Operation Redbud and stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. I spent an hour looking for it. Yeah. I finally found one listing on eBay. of a 1996 September issue of Turkey Call. It was just a title and it had every article listed. And one of the article titles was Operation Redbud.

And there was no photos. There was nothing online. And I was like, I've got a buddy who is big into the history of the NWTF, Nathaniel Maddox. Yeah. I was like, hey, man, do you have the September issue of the 1996 turkey call? And he's like, yeah, I got the whole year. Right here on the back of my toilet. So he went down to his office.

yesterday or the next day and took pictures of the one article so in the bus they called the editor for the turkey call up to ohio that day of flew up there because the nwtf had provided a ton of money to the ohio tip line which is how this whole thing got started so the nwtf was helping to fund the tip line that was like hey so-and-so's killing whatever and then they get a reward from the in WTF. So the editor was actually there at the busts and wrote an article on it. Interesting. None of this is online.

Yeah. Yeah. So I tasked Isaac because what I wanted to do at the end of the podcast was to go, Target number one spent, you know, so much time in jail and had to do this and lost this and sadly, I'm afraid we'd be a little disappointed if we knew what happened of those guys. I think that's the reason why, or partially. Yeah.

I bet they got off. I don't know. There's a lot. I've heard, I have heard people, like, off the record, and I can't even remember exactly who told me this, but when you're a judge and you hear a wildlife case, sometimes it doesn't translate to as significant a crime.

Almost like, yeah, but that's not a real crime. And I'm not saying it's a judge's fault, but I'm just saying the system is not geared to just fry people. for wildlife crimes. And, you know, to those of us on this side of it, that love wildlife, like are playing this game, this conservation game, like, we see how serious it is. But when the next guy is a guy that murdered somebody, it's like, it's a little bit. You know, I kind of agree with that.

But, you know, you need your law strong enough to stop other people from participating. And where is that? It's like, how do you price your... your product. We'll price it as high as you can until it quit selling and you can back off a little bit. Yeah. So when Louisdale and Charlie and Stony Edwards, Charlie's son told me this, when Louis Dale, or he's the one that brought it to my attention.

When Louis Dale and Charlie were doing what they were doing back in the 80s and 90s, literally it was like a misdemeanor ticket. Like if you killed a turkey, got caught killing a turkey, which they did a couple times, pay a $325 fine, go to the courthouse. pay the money, go back and kill another one. You know, Charlie said, well, it's cost me about 40 cents a bird because he got caught one time, but all the ones he killed, he divided

the amount of birds he'd killed to the ticket. And so it literally was like a game. It wasn't the punishment. Today, it's not like that. They are taking vehicles. And RT did say that one of the guys had his vehicle taken away, put a lien on his house until the fines were paid.

You know, there was some significant stuff. But yeah, that's the... Yeah, because it's basically he risked his life. Yeah. I mean, that's a good perspective. That he risked his life for a pretty low-key. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, in the end, you know, what I want to say is that, you know, we're all massively supportive of law enforcement, what these guys are doing, the sacrifice that they're given. to protect our wildlife and our right to hunt and basically the integrity of the whole system. So when you go out and don't commit a crime and have a good hunt and take an animal,

that is as much a part of the whole system as RT going undercover and busting these guys. To me, it's like one big thing. We've got to have it. Thanks, Brent. Yeah. For being after clay all these years. Yeah.

Got him. Busted. Well, it's great to have the render crew back together. Pleasure to speak with you. All of you. Hey, Meteor Black Friday sales is almost done. Hey, we haven't addressed that it's almost Thanksgiving.

Oh my gosh. If people are listening to this on the day it comes out, tomorrow's Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving. Enjoy your family. Be thankful. Be thankful. Kill a deer.

Andy Brown says Thanksgiving Day is a great day to hunt. Always. It's the opener for the day. the South Sona Ducks in Missouri. Say that again. It's the opener for the South Sona Ducks in Missouri. Okay. Yesterday afternoon would have been a good day to hunt.

I saw more deer driving from the highway. Let me tell you. To my house. I had deer everywhere. It was a good day to hunt. I mean, not. He killed one yesterday. Yeah.

Killed a buck yesterday. And one of my good friends from Lurrock, I visited with him this week. And he's a great hunter. And he said, he talked. talked about you. He said, yeah, I'd like to meet Clay sometime. And he said, by the way, Monday, I forget what day this was. He said, is the red moon. He said, that should be the best day of the whole year to hunt. The red moon. Monday or Tuesday of this. Last week, right? There was a blood moon. Yeah. Yeah. Boy, it was pretty, too. It was pretty. It was pretty

amazing. The kids and I went out and looked at it, and we had a really good view of it, and it was, it was beautiful. And y'all had snow. We've had snow twice. They're talking about the snow tomorrow, maybe. All right, guys. Yeah, tonight. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to the Berger's podcast.

Last spring, Clay Newcomb and I collaborated with Jason Phelps at Phelps game calls and building each of our own favorite turkey diaphragms called prime cuts. Now, I'm going to tell you, I love mine because it's easy to use. I'm not going to go, I'm not going to win a turkey calling contest. It's just not going to happen. But when I run this call, I get the sounds. that gobblers are looking for. I have a great turkey hunting track record.

If you go listen to real turkeys out in the woods, they're not going to win calling contests, right? That's who I listen to. I can make those sounds on my cut. I also hunt with Phelps' cut and I hunt with Clay's cut because they're all three great cuts. Check out

prime cuts at Phelpsgamecalls.com. I think you'll be glad you did and you'll find out that the Steve Rinella cut is an easy-to-use cut for beginning callers who just want to start making good turkey noises and getting action. This is an I-Heart podcast, guaranteed human.