Bear Grease - Ep. 91: Bear Grease [Render] - Mud and Foggy Newcomb, Elvis and Tecumseh

Episode Date: February 1, 2023

This week on the Bear Grease Render, a very special crew braves the elements to meet up to talk about the famed orator and Shawnee leader of the pan-indian confederacy, Tecumseh. Misty, Clay and Josh are joined this week by first time guests Jessica Jessica Lewallen and Kristie Speilmaker, as well as returning favorite Terrell Spencer. Topics discussed include an AI generated biographic article that struggles with the Newcomb's first names, the APPA rooster calling championship, and the importance of language. I really doubt you're gonna want to miss this one... Connect with Clay and MeatEater Clay on Instagram MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and Youtube Shop Bear Grease MerchSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. First Lights fieldware collection is made for the work that happens long before opening day and continues when the season ends. Products built for early mornings, full days and real use. Hard wearing where they need to be versatile where it matters. No shortcuts. Just gear designed for the work that earns the season.

Built to perform, built to last. Check out. First Light's new field. Worldware Gear at firstlight.com. My name is Clay Newcomb, and this is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called the Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual Bear Grease podcast. Presented by FHF Gear, American Made, Purpose Built, Hunting and Fishing Gear that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. I'm like, is there some big announcement?

I don't know about. Welcome to the Bear Grease podcast. I think it would be appropriate to describe our external environment today. Okay. Before we start. Well, when I walked, when I took the long trek from our house to the world headquarters, or also known as Meteor South, it was slick. There was active sleet ice falling.

And for Arkansas, you know, it takes about, well, none of that for us to cancel. Today we cancel school bright and early because, yeah, because it was misty outside. And I thought it was a good call. It's misty in here. It's misty in here. Oh. I think you need dim and foggy. Yes.

And so it was, it's just really, really crazy. Yeah, we got really bad, bad, icy weather. I just came back from Mexico last week. And when I got home from Mexico on the way home, there was like six. inches of snow. Clay was down in Cabo sunning at the beach. Yeah. We were at 6,000 feet elevation in Mexico.

Freezing cold. I bet it was. Luckily, Clay read like a part of the memo and brought a jacket. It was almost one of those deals where it's like, ah, I don't need that much clothing. But I did. Very cold. So I came home to bad weather. Kind of a life mission statement for Clay.

Six, seven, eight days later, it's like very icy right now. We got snow last week. I've been a lot of places with the Newcoms where some member of their family didn't have a coat or a jacket. In the dead of winter. Yeah, it's a problem. Or a pillow. Yeah. We won't say.

That explains partly why we have such an eclectic group of people. You've heard a few voices that you wouldn't have recognized. And you've not heard some voices that are typically here. Gary, the believer, Newcomb, it's about a three-hour drive, two and a half hour drive for him to get here. Arkansas shut down. The state of Arkansas show. We told him not to come. Brent Reeves.

We told him not to come. And so we have some very new folks. Misty Newcomb's here. Josh Lambridge, Spillmaker's here. Josh, introduce your guest. So a very special guest that I'm honored to introduce and honored to have been married to for almost 25 years, Mrs. Christy Spilmaker. Well, hello. Christy.

So great to have you, Christy. Thank you. This is a long time dream of mine to have Christy's spillmaker on the bear grease render podcast. We've tried a lot to get her on here. Yeah, you wouldn't know it, but we've tried a lot. So very, we're so happy you're here, Christy. I'm so happy to be here. Yes, yes.

And we've known the spillmakers for decades. Decades. So we've raised our kids side by side with the spillmakers. Traveled. And so I can't wait to hear what you have to say about Tacomsa. I'm very, I'm ready. For those, it's possible that people are new to our. podcast. The Bear Grays podcast, we are a documentary style history, anthropology, hillbilly,

hunting, conservation, musical, playing, podcast. But every other week we have a group of people that comes together for the Bear Grish Render, which is what you're listening to, where we talk about the last week's episodes. We're going to talk about Tacomsa Part 2. So, Great Tabi Christy, my guest, well, I have two guests here. Misty and I have two guests here. Our first guest is Jessica Llewellyn. Our dear friend of many decades as well, right, Jessica? Yeah, yeah.

Hey, I came, I stayed the night at Jessica's house for the first time when I, my 16th birthday. I think so. 17th birthday. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 17th birthday. That was my first time to ever meet. In Fayville, when you came up. Yes, Lou. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. I still remember sitting in the basement living room, chit-chat. Yes. I'm like, ah, I love this gal. And I love this gal, too. Really, she's been, our kids that were born in the hospital, she was there at the hospital for our daughter's births and was here very shortly after at our house when our sons were born. Jessica, tell the world what you do for a living? Oh, I'm an architect.

Yeah. What kind of stuff do you work on? Commercial. I don't do a lot of houses. But, yeah, I've gotten the, over my 20-plus year career. I've gotten to do a lot of different stuff, but right now I work for a firm that does a lot of commercial development. So right now I've got some projects with universities around the state. Locally, I've gotten to do a really cool movie theater and some offices and restaurants and things like that.

And yeah, I really enjoy my job. It changes a lot day to day. You know, some days I am, you know, boots and hard hat, and some days I'm on a computer. Some days I'm on phone and meetings. Some days I get to color. I mean, like... Like literally color. I was about to ask you if you've ever...

Do you ever draw stuff like on a napkin like you see in movies? Barely. Architects usually have paper and pins these days. I do have a purse. I have an advantage over those guys. A purse. You carry paper. I usually have paper.

I'm kind of an architect myself. Jessica, as you know. Do you carry a purse? Do you remember when we built this office? I said that this was going to be a celebration of architecture. Oh. Do you remember that? It's coming back.

Okay. This wasn't just going to be a building. It was going to be a celebration of architecture. But so funny story about Jessica that I heard her telling yesterday was that when she was in college, is okay if I tell this story? Sure. When she was in college, at her house, they hosted a band that came and played a concert in her house. And the dude set his symbols on fire in her house. Do I know that, dude?

This was that same living room. that I first hung out with Misty. This house was legendary in Fayetteville at the time, by the way. And it was not once that we had a bandplay. It was like frequently. It was like, this was the days before cell phones and smartphones. And in those days, you would chalk the sidewalk. You'd write stuff on the sidewalk if you want people to show up with chalk.

Like outside your house? Well, on campus. On campus. And you would tell them what the address. We could, you didn't even have to say the address. People knew this house. Wow. It was nicknamed the Slacker House.

When I lived there, we were not slackers. People that lived there before but the house is known as the slacker house. So we could literally, but on the sidewalk, slacker house, Friday night, 8 p.m. and the band name, and people would show up and watch bands. Wow.

So fun. So how did they light their symbols on fire in your living room? Oh, gosh. Like, right of the lighter fluid. There's some kind of this gel that you put on it, if I remember right, that you kind of smear on it and then you can light it on fire. Some stern up.

Yeah. You know, I'm kind of big into, like, sensational ways to get attention. I mean, I'm thinking about burning, like, going on a squirrel hunt and, like, lighten my saddle on fire. Or flaming arrows. Flaming arrows. That's what I'm talking about. Okay, I'll see what I can find out. Yes.

So. You could also just order fajitas at the Mexican restaurant. Wush. Have fajitas delivered to your meal. So our final guest and certainly not least guest who's been here before. Yeah, true story. But our dear neighbor, also friend for decades, our favorite pastured poultry farmer, Terrell Spencer. Yeah.

Good to have you, man. Yeah, it's like being on the practice squad and everybody gets the flu so you get to play. Yeah. It's true. We need to say, like, say, like, Terrell Spencer is a direct replacement of Gary Schenkel. So you need to be thinking about Gary would say and try to, like, fill his spot. Christy, you got to replace Sprint Reefs. Well, those are big shoes to fill.

They're actually not. It's like a size 8 and a half or 9. You got that small feet, big beard and big overalls. But no, Terrell. So you're, I just called you Terrell. I never call you Terrell. Spence is your name. We're close enough you can use first name basis.

I remember when my kids found out that Spence's last name was Spence. Yeah. And they looked at me and they said his mom named him Spence. Spence. Hey, tell me about what you're wearing around your neck. This old thing? I forgot I had it on. Whatever, dude.

Yeah, it's a grand champion rooster call medal. I won a couple weeks ago in Dallas. Wow. At the American Pastured Poultry Producers Association. APPA. Yep. They had a big conference, about 350 farmers. And I took the gold.

I took the gold. I mean, you got to let's hear your rooster. Man, I would blow out every microphone on this. Oh, it's okay. Do it? You could even move it if you wanted to. No. No, okay.

Don't do it. Full force. Yeah, turn it up just a little bit. Turn it up just a little bit. My voice is a little force. He's got to stand up to get this out. Okay. Oh, oh, oh, oh.

Excuse me. Well, okay. We're filming now. I was doing it earlier on top of the holler with my dog scaring vultures. Okay. And he really likes that. So my voice is a little blown out. Okay.

Wow. That wasn't any. Wow. I'm assuming they liked loudness over, over like technical nuance. There's a fella, Christian Alexander. Hey, turn your mic down just a little bit there. There's a fella Christian Alexander. He's a farmer in North California.

And he came out and he called and everybody sat down. And what I did, I couldn't compete with that, but there were multiple, you could do multiple calls. So I just did a barrage of mediocre calls and got my score up. So I did like a turkey hen, a gobble. Okay. Like the little. That turkeys did. You know, I did a poultry predator, an owl, and a crow.

There you go. And I got my score up to take them down. Okay. So our sons play basketball together. Spence and I. True story. And when either of the boys score, I will alhout from the stand

and Spence will crow call and it's our goal that one day when the boys score on their team the whole stadium al-hoots I mean that's my goal anyway it happened and we were in a really rural school district if you remember

and we were making our calls and someone from the other side called back answered it responded I'm just saying like I love it It's wonderful. One of the things that we are playing for a new team this year. And I'm a little concerned that they're embarrassed of us.

Guess what? You get what you pay for. Not the kids. You got some kids from down here. Their dads are probably going to crow come. It is what it is. Misty, why don't you read... Okay, so I get, you know, like updates.

if someone in our family hits the papers. Like I have this setting where it'll send me... The interwebs. The interwebs. It's a setting on Google. Yeah, it's a setting on Google. So if someone's in the news or something, I'll get an alert so I can see pictures and stuff like that.

Well, I've got Clay's name on there. And so I got an update that Clay Newcomb and Misty Newcomb were in the papers. Or the... Papers. What was that? 99. I'll have it. Did you cut it out?

No. It was on the internet. And I quickly realized that what I was looking at was an AI product, artificial intelligence. And so for people who don't know, there are these newly created robots, recently created robots, who go around, and it's clear what they do is they pull articles from all over the internet and they make like summarizations of those articles. but they don't want to plagiarize, and so to not plagiarize, even though someone say this is still plagiarizing, they just swap out some of the keywords for synonymous. So basically it's a full article that has like a 500-word article

that was a bio about me and Misty. Mainly about play. And go ahead and read it. And it starts with, and it starts with Mud Nukram. Grew up and. was launched up inside the Wachita Mountains as a seventh interval, Arkansas. And so already I'm like, where on Earth through this article stem from? What translation? He's a tracker, donkey skinner, naturalist, and provincial social spectator.

Provincial. Okay, let's stop right there. In my bio at Meat Eater, it says that I'm a seventh generation Arkansas born and raised in Arkansas. So it said, it was launched up in Arkansas. And then in At bio, I said I am a, I'm a contasseur of rural culture. So what did they say? They said he's a tracker, a donkey skinner, naturalist, and provincial social spectator. Provincial social spectator. Was a connoisseur of rural culture.

Is there a tea in that word? Connoisseur. We don't talk about Clay's pronunciation. Fantastic, Christy. You nailed it. There's a lot of words that I don't say right. He is an essayist, movie producer, and this might be one of my favorites, the host of the bear oil webcast. Fair oil webcast.

And then Donkey Skinner. Yeah. Meal Skinner. Yeah. All right. Are you offended that they thought that donkey would be a synonym for a mule? Yeah. I mean, come on, AI bot.

Dirt Nukum has been hitched. dirt, pitch. So they've switched now. So it was clay, Earth, dirt, nukeum has been hitched to

his greater half cloudy nukems. For virtually 10 years, which that is wrong, 22 years. Earth Newcomb's important,

completely different, has been joyfully hitched to him. Mud and foggy like investing. Mud and foggy. That needs to be on a license plate

I'm a friday. Airbrushed, mud and foggy. Mud and foggy. You see what it's to it. So it thinks my name is Newcomb. Yeah. And it thinks clay is just a word that can be, you can use synonyms of. And misty as well.

Foggy. Mud and foggy like investing energy with their family inside the Ozark Heaps. Ozark Mountains. Heaps. Okay. I'm not going to go too much more, but they do at one point call me foggy Newcomb again. And by the end of this, my name has changed to

Dimm D. D. D. D. D. Dene has four children. I kind of love a good nickname.

Robies are kind of Muggy. I wish my name was Mudd Noggy. Mud Nucum. That should be your new band name. It should be Mud and Foggy. Yeah. It's a great band name.

Mud and Foggy. Dirt Nukum would be great. But our friend, Dirt. We have a friend. Garrett Smith. Already has that one taken. Yeah.

Meteor cameraman. Great go. Wonderful. So he's already dirt, so we're already past that. If you ever race like three-wheelers, your name needs to be dirt, nuke them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, three-wheeler's.

I can picture Airbrust T-shirts, too. Yeah. With mud and foggy. Characres. Christy, can you tell us what you do? Yeah. I am in supply chain, global supply chain. So I work with a supply chain company mainly in the retail sales.

mainly in the retail sector doing import type work. And an avid hunter. A fisher woman. So for years, I kind of still think you're in trucking. Right, right, yeah. I did that for about 13 months, but it's stuck. Well, no, no, well, and you really weren't a trucker for 13 months. But you work with truckers and a major retailer in the country.

That's right. Yes. Now, Christy's very important. She's extremely important. Christy, you have such a great story because you went to college when you were older. I was 30. 30 years old. We had three kids.

Three kids. Yep. Two foster kids. We had two foster kids during part of that time. When did you graduate college? 2012. How old were you? I was 34.

And then now you're like running planet. earth. Yeah, right, exactly. She's a big wing. She is a big week. For real. I mean, she is. She's a big shot. And there was a time when she worked for a local retailer that some have heard of. She doesn't anymore. Can I say their name? She used to work for Walmart and every time

I would go into Walmart and they wouldn't have something that I wanted, I'd send her a picture so she could fix it. I would get that. I also, we have a very close friend who would call me and be like, I bought this fan and I love it and I have ten of them and I bought them all ten years ago and I can't find them anymore. Can you figure out what happens.

I know for sure. I cannot figure out what happens. No idea. But don't forget that Christy Spielmaker is also quite the fly fisher woman. I am.

So it's nice to have the presence of another fly fisher in the room. I'm here to support you. Mm-hmm. Where do you all? And y'all like to go over in central Arkansas. Mm-hmm.

Don't tell us your spot. And north of here. North of here is pretty good. Jessica. Now, your connections to hunting? Well, I should probably confess I've never hunted. I fished a little bit when I was a kid, but I hooked my brother one time and then no more hunting after that. Right.

But I very much enjoy, I grew up in family that hunts and fishes. Your dad's a big hunter. Yeah, dad and brothers. And I reap the benefits of having family and friends that are hunter. Like I was telling some friends at work this morning that in my freezer right now I have moose meat. I have buffalo meat. I have deer meat. I have chicken.

I have all these things that people supply, and I'm very grateful. Yeah, and I love being outdoors. The coolest story, or a cool story that Jessica's dad has, who I've hunted with your dad. Yeah. Is that he knew Elvis Presley. Yeah. Can you tell us about that?

I hope I'm getting these right. Dad, I hope I'm getting these right. It's close enough. Yeah, yeah. So I grew up in Central Arkansas. There was a guy who was a singer in the 70s in Central Arkansas, and my dad was learning to do tile, like for bathroom. and kitchens, and he was working on that guy's house, and Elvis came to hang out, and Elvis would

like just go sit, like, on the toilet with the lid closed, and chat with my dad. Who knew that would be his final... Elvis lived in Memphis, and your dad was just a few hours away. Like an hour and a half from where your dad was at in Arkansas. Uh-huh. And so then, you know, apparently, this was when my dad was young, probably still in high school, and Elvis and this other guy were probably in their 30s. and my dad was always in the cool cars.

He had a cool car then, and they convinced my dad to take him cruising downtown so they could drink and wave at girls from the back seat. There you go. Elvis. Yeah. And then later on, my dad was racing boats at a lake in central Arkansas. He did this regularly, and it was kind of a big deal back then.

And Elvis would be the MC or special guest or whatever. And before it started, he'd find my dad and say hi. And then he'd be like, I've got to get out of here. There's too many people. And go back to the, you know, where the cool kids go. Elvis Presley. I'm big into Elvis now, Josh. Oh, really?

I've heard about this. When did this happen? About two or three weeks. Is there going to be a podcast about Elvis? Is that going to be the next series? Was Elvis a hunter? There's actually a great quote by Ted Nugent about Elvis Presley. And?

He said, if Elvis had just been bloody up to the elbows about once a year, he'd still be alive. Oh. Remember that? Yep. Because he wouldn't have needed all the drugs. He killed him. He'd have got a natural high, Jessica. I believe it.

Elvis. You should hear Clay's Elvis call. Oh, man. Last spring, Clay Newcomb and I collaborated with Jason Phelps at Phelps game calls in building each of our own favorite turkey diaphragms called prime cuts. Now, I'm going to tell you, I love mine because it's easy to use. I'm not going to win a turkey calling contest. It's just not going to happen.

But when I run this call, I get the sounds that gobblers are looking for. I have a great turkey hunting track record. If you go listen to real turkeys out in the woods, they're not going to win calling contests, right? That's who I listen to. I can make those sounds on my cut. I also hunt with Phelps's cut, and I hunt with Clay's cut because they're all three great cuts. Check out prime cuts at Felps. Game Calls.com.

I think you'll be glad you did. And you'll find out that the Steve Ronella cut is an easy-to-use cut for beginning callers who just want to start making good turkey noises and getting action. Christy. Oh, I just want to give a shout out because I was on a business trip last week, last week or the week before. And I was in the Dallas-Fort Worth Airport. and I saw a bear grease hat. Nice.

From across the way. We call that a bear grease hat in the wild. It was a siding. Yep. Siding in the wild. And I just thought, well, I'm going to talk to this gentleman and just see if he'll talk to me. And I was like, sweet hat. And he's like, he's like, thanks.

So where did you get it? And he was like, mediator website. Like, kind of. Like I'm an idiot. Like, where else am I going to get one? I was like, oh, okay, cool. Do you listen to the podcast? And he just looked at me.

He goes religiously. And I said, oh, you listen to the render? Yeah. And I said, well, sir, my husband is Josh Landbridge Spielmaker. And I just was like, it was exactly. Exactly. And he was like, what? And then he wanted to be my best friend.

And so that was Dr. Blake on his way. He's going to be a doctor at the children's hospital here. And he's about to move. And so I just wanted to give a shout out to Dr. Blake and rep in the bare grace. We salute you, Dr. Blake. We salute you, Dr. Blake. That's right. Yeah.

I had multiple farmers at the APA conference come up to me, and they'd listen to the soil podcast. Yeah, the soil episode. I don't remember any other names, but you know who you are. I think that we should start a new section where we just call out people's names. Like that's how every Arkansas event, like all the, that's how all the Arkansas, like, social events, you go to an education conference, and they stand up and they just kind of point out all the people in the room they know. Right.

Building that loyalty. Stop it. Anyway, I think we should do that on the Barryreys podcast. I got an email this week about a guy and oh, forgive me, brother, for not having your name in front of me. But this guy was at a fur trading. He was at a fur sale in Idaho. This is a thing. Fur sales.

Yeah, yeah. They were selling and buying furs. And he was wearing a bear grease hat in the size. seller, he was wanting to buy some furs. In fact, remember right. And the seller saw his bearer's hat and was like, bro, love the podcast and gave him a discount on the fur. I thought you were going to tell me he was going to use it as currency. Yeah. Oh, that would be awesome.

You also give me the hat. That would be good. That would be good. Hey, where are we on our Coonskin hats, Josh? I've been working diligently on them. I've got I've got four left to make. They're about one-third made. Okay.

So I just need to finish them up. Okay. We need, yeah, at some point we're going to sell these coonskin, genuine, genuine Ozark, dog-tree hats. By next render, I will have a completion date for you. Okay. And they might even be done. You never know.

Yeah, we just got to forget what we're going to do with them. Hey, kind of as an announcement, too, just to remind everybody. March 4th in northwest Arkansas, Bentonville is the Black Bear Bonanza. It's going to be big, man. There will be a Coonskin hat. There will be one of Josh's Coonskin hats.

Anyone with a good Al-Hoot could win. It's going to be the prize for the Al-Hooten contest. I'll be one of the judges. There's going to be a live Bear Greas Render podcast recorded there. Potentially going to be some live music. Oh.

By mud and foggy. Mud and foggy. Mud and foggy. guests. Maybe, maybe, maybe. But it really is going to be a great day, man. Those guys have done a great job of putting together a really fun event. It's all day.

I'll be there all day. Misty Fogg will be there all day. Misty Fogg's funny every time. Who? James Lawrence. I'm looking forward to seeing James Lawrence. He messaged me the other day. And when I get a text message from James Lawrence, I feel like he shouldn't be text messaging.

Does he have a flip phone? He literally, well, he's got a real phone now. He's got a good one now. But when he comes into town, he can message. And he messaged me and said, hey, I heard you having some kind of event. And I said, yeah. And he said, me and he's coming. All right.

That's awesome. I'm looking forward to that. So, Tacoma, man, this, so as everybody knows, I said it on the last render. I've never taken such a long period of time to build. oldest series. It took me over a year, maybe even a year and a half, to just put all the pieces together and get the right. It mainly had to do with my guests, just like lining them all up, and then I've got them. And rarely do I have this many, like, great guests on a single podcast. A lot of really quality guests. Chief Ben Barnes of the Shawnee. Yeah, that's big.

Robert Morgan, New York Times best of another, Robert Warren, who I have. joke about and if I am ever on the New York Times bestsellers list I would like for all of you my dear friends to when you introduce me introduced me as New York Times bestselling author and my friend Clay Newcomb you mean my name I've got to write a book first though and then Peter Cozenes who is a fantastic author and historian and who am I missing Dallas yeah Dr. Dave Edmonds, who has spent his whole career. Dave Edmonds is in his 80s, and it's just a really fun, a lot of energy, just so much knowledge. They're like, oh, slow down, slow down. Like when I put the headset on, he just took off.

And he would be like four steps ahead of me, and I'd have to stop him and then be like, hey, let me ask you this little bitty question. He was great. He was such so great. So rarely do you have that much time to invest into one episode, but it's such a complex topic. I am quite certain that when this is done, there will be people on both sides of this topic that would think that I did it a disservice. Oh, really? I think so.

Because it, man, I said it at the end of maybe the first episode or the second episode, I was kind of just, I kind of, at the very end, kind of made a plea for empathy to the listeners to just be like, hey, there's no way that I could get this totally right. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, I am telling this story through the veil of my understanding, which is dim. And... Not to be confused. Not to be a misty. Foggy.

Foggy view of this. Because it is very, sensitive stuff because we're talking about we're talking about American history we're talking about a people that were where a lot of injustice was done to them but you're also talking about a people who the Europeans who in many ways are overlooked for the stresses that they were dealing with as they were trying to move into this land that they would have viewed as almost unoccupied And so it's not a justification for that, but that's just the truth. I mean, you know, poverty and all these factors were pushing these people.

And it's, so there's like all these different sides of it. And you're also, I think the other aspect of this that's challenging is that you don't have history necessarily. The history books were written not by the Shawnee. And so one of the big challenges that you have is you're talking a lot about a different worldview and a different paradigm that they approached the, and we don't have, we don't have that worldview clearly documented, like we do, the Westerners, even people who are trying to present it from the Shawnee perspective, still, that's not their, you know, that's not their native language. That's not their native worldview. And so, so it's, it's just, it's tricky. Well, there's a bias in every,

every angle. And it really would be this way in any part of history. There's always a bias in the way the story is told from any angle. And especially when you're going back into a time period when there was very little documentation of anything. I mean, even about Tecumse's life, you know, I got this book that's, you know, two inches thick about Tecumse that's got like every possible thing that was ever known about him.

And much of it is even the stuff I reported on about Tecumse's birth and all these things. Man, we're going off of like a thread. Yeah. Like, for instance, Tecumse's birth and, like, him being born under a comet that struck, like went across the sky in Ohio. Two people told that story.

Now, those two people were close to Tecumse. It's really, for that deep of history, it's like pretty solid evidence. His grandson, Thomas Wildcat Alfred, told that story to somebody. He said, my grandfather was born under a comet. and his name means this. But closer to Thumseh was his brother, essentially his functional brother, who was a white kid that was kidnapped

and brought into the Chenees, raised as his brother that knew English. This is stuff we didn't really even get to get into. Stephen Riddell, who lived with the Chonies for 17 years and then went back into the white world. He is a big source of information about Ticumsa, because Ticumstah died when he was 45.

in 1813. And so, I don't know how long Stephen Riddell lived, but presumably longer than Ticumsa. And so when he died, people started asking about him. And Riddell was like,

I was his brother. And I could speak English. And Riddell told that story. But it's not like there was a video of it. Or Facebook posts. Exactly. Yeah. Even at that,

you know, one man's, you're going off of one man's memory. Right. True. Yeah. I mean, I can't tell you. how many times I've told the story

and Chrissy's like, that's not how it happened. Yeah. And Josh is a compulsive lie. I'm just kidding. Before we move further, I think I just want to log that I wish we would have named a kid Wildcat. I wish we'd named a kid mud, dirt, wildcat.

A lot of great. Our youngest daughter names out there. Had she been a boy, she was going to be Wolfgang. I remember and I was grateful. I was grateful she was a girl. Because you guys had a bear and we were going to have a wolf. That would have been so good.

Baron and a wolf, we definitely would have. I'm still holding out for you guys for another kid. Yeah, thanks for that. If we do, I'm going to bury an antler with the umbilical cord. That's all I know. Yes. So we'll start off the discussion. So we're talking about part two,

but if you want to reference part one, that's okay as well. So part two was basically, DeCumns his life from about 1795 to 1812. Okay? It was kind of after he was established. The first podcast established his birth, the context of his birth, and kind of, there were no official wars going on to speak of until the war of 1812. That's like the first big American war that were like, yes, they were fighting.

But his whole life was filled with warfare, skirmishes, tribal warfare. You know, that's something that we didn't get into that my dear friend Steve Ronella called me today and talked to me about. was how much how much intertribal warfare there was like they were a warring people like I don't want it to sound like they were surprised by they didn't understand warfare

in this second one Robert Morgan talked about how the Native Americans viewed warfare differently than the Europeans and it was more ritualistic and you know you can paint this romantic picture of like these people in the way they live, but they were, they were, they were, they were very brutal at times to themselves. And a lot of fighting, just fighting was part of it.

Yeah. I think that's even speaks to how much more difficult it probably was for, to come to say to bring together all the different tribes, you know? Yeah. Like it could be easy to think, oh, it's just gathering up people that are all very similar or whatever, but there's a lot of difference between those different tribes. Exactly. there was incredible difference

and a lot of the tribes hated each other just for the sake of hating each other and we're taking land from each other even though like as you talked about it there's like this hegemon that we've all been exposed to of like what we think a Native American is and it's like in the plains with the big feather bonnet you know and that you don't think about

like in the east in the woods and like marching with the British. And, you know, like, when you see Ticumza, it's like nothing like what I, as a boy growing up in the 80s, or watching Westerns, what you think. You know, so it's like that thing has to even get moved before you can even start looking at and thinking about him. That's what I found myself like, I really don't know anything about this. Yeah.

You know, like it's so foreign to me. Yeah. And it's such a huge part of our history that's just, we're ignorant. enough, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the way we'll do this, I'm going to go to each one of you and ask you what stood out to you. And so maybe by the time we're done, we'll have like talked about lots of different parts

of it. Is that okay? Yeah. Yeah. Christy, can I start out with you? Yeah, you sure. What stood out to you in this pocket? Okay.

So I think there were probably two parts that stood out to me. The description of the movement of people, like being in one location. and then spreading out all the way across the earth. And then so coupled that with then in the first episode when it was, I can't remember who it was, but described that like Tacomsa would have approached people and things from what is similar, not what's different. Yeah.

And so then you start, you kind of like start putting it all together and you're like this whole movement of people from like one central kind of location out across the earth. over many, many years, obviously produce different mindsets and thought processes and worldviews. And it just makes me sit back and wonder, like, does the worldview always have to conflict? Or could there have been, you know, when I think about this, could the Western worldview and the Native American worldview have come together to produce something better than what we even have today, right?

Instead, it was conflict and one had to, you know, quote unquote, win out or whatever. Yeah. And I sit back and I think about that because in my world, like, it's all about like, I've got to go build relationships and build rapport and go find common ground. And it's like, what if I just approach people and thought, hey, there just is common ground? Like, you know what I mean? Even in my daily life, just thinking about how does that apply? So I was impacted by that. I thought that was pretty wild.

And just interesting to think about. But then even, even just what you just described, I mean, Ticumse had to go and talk to people who also tribes, you had different world. view, I don't know about worldviews, but different views, and try to go find common ground. Yeah. So, you know, it's, it was an interesting kind of like, how does it practically play out? So I was impacted by that. And then, can I say something to that? And then you'll get to go again.

Okay. Because I'm very glad you brought that up. Okay. Because if that, that was such a, the idea, like, taking it all the way back to the human diaspora out of where we started. I was afraid to try to pronounce that. Yeah. Well, I'm sure I pronounced it wrong.

I sure I pronounced it wrong. Clay, I think you nailed that one, actually. You nailed it in diaspora. Well, it's such a wild thought to think that we are the same species. We're the same. And two people left in separate, and it's a very simplified version of the human diaspora. Yes. Two people left in different directions.

They didn't know they were on a round planet. No. And time separated them for so long that when they met on the American frontier, they were vastly their thought of what it meant to be a human was vastly different. Yeah. Yeah. And then there was this conflict. And yeah, to me, like I could just sit and just think about that and just be like, wow, wild.

And then, you know, I talked about the Tower of Babel and the Bible, where language was the way that God basically stripped people of being able to collaborate together. Right. And how today that is so, I mean, language is everything. But Jessica? I was just going to say that the part where you guys talked about language and the way is the language influenced thought and thought influenced language was really striking to me. Y'all know I'm a big movie watcher and so many things take me back to movies. But yeah, there's a movie called Arrival that was about like aliens landing and this woman trying to communicate. and communicate with aliens.

And that's one of the big ideas in that movie is like how communication shapes thought and thought shapes communication and back and forth. And I thought that the way that was described was really interesting and captured that idea. And it's true. Like the way we talk is a reflection of what we think, but it also influences the way we think. And back and forth, it's a cyclical thing. And so just being aware, just in a practical life.

Was this going to be one of your favorite topics for this? Yeah, this is one of the things I wanted to run off. Okay. Hold that because I want to talk about language. Okay. I've got more about it. I've got a couple things to say as well. We've got to go back to Christy though. Okay. Okay. My second one.

My second one was Logan's lament. Oh, man. Yes. Yeah. I just thought that was pretty. I mean, I thought it was beautiful, but like so sad. Yeah. And just just that thought of like, man, he really treated people one way and was horribly, you know, unjustly treated by that same group of people.

And I just, yeah. So I was in, I, I liked how Ben Barnes said, he said, your soul can't help but be moved after you read that. Right. He said something really striking about how. Agree. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting.

Jessica. Ladies first. Oh, absolutely. Okay. Impacting, impacting thoughts. Yeah. And I was thinking a lot about how language influences thought and thought influences language and how that's the same for everybody. That's a life principle, you know?

It's like you got to be conscious of how you talk because it does influence how you think. And you also, you can tell a lot about how someone thinks, by the way they talk. And, yeah, I just thought it was really interesting here. Or the decrease from 6,000 languages to 250? Was that the statistic? In what time frame? By 2100, like in the next 75 years. Unbelievable.

He said every week there is a language crossed off the list that dies. Hmm. Like in, and we'll talk about this more, I think, in the next episode. But he, you know, I mean, there are around 250 people on planet Earth that speak Shawnee. Right. And what he said to me that really got my gears turning was he said, that monolingual speakers have a hard time understanding why speaking multiple languages is important. And he said that languages allow us to view the world in a different way.

And when you really practically think about what that means, this would be an example, as I've thought about it. Imagine that you're walking down a country road, and there's a creek gurgling off to the right hand side, and you're just kind of, it's pears. peaceful, there's birds, and you're just having like a nice walk, a contemplative walk, and you're thinking about important stuff in your life. And I don't know, how would you describe that in English? I'm not really asking for an answer, but I'm saying you would probably have to like make a lot of different thoughts and say a lot of different stuff and take a lot of time to like describe like kind of a complex thing that's happening. Because a creek doesn't really affect like my family, but maybe I'm thinking about my family.

Perhaps there is a word in another language that you could say, I went and X, X, X, X, X, X. And that, and you would be like, oh, you were walking down the road and there was a creek babbling beside you, and you were thinking about your life and contemplating and yada y'all. Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah. Maybe there's like, like, there's words that describe stuff that we don't have words. We've always heard that French is the language of love. And which Spence is shaking as it.

Yes or no. We felt like Ozark is the language of love. But point being, there's ways that they say, they capture parts of life that the English language just doesn't have the ability to capture. And so I thought about that. Because that's what I try to do as a storyteller, as a writer, It's like you're trying to describe this really complex life we live.

And there are words and other languages that say stuff that we don't know how to say. I think there's a, up in Alaska, there's a. Co-U-Con. I don't know who it is, but they have like 27 words for snow. Yes, I've heard that. We've got the one. I think about one of the lessons that we go through with our kids at school. in one of the classes I teach.

Hardy, he gave her a hearty welcome. What do you picture? Like a loud welcome. Okay, what kind of people? I don't know. Who's given the hearty welcome? Who do you picture giving that? Like what's a man?

Friends and family. Okay. What's he wearing? Santa Claus suit. Really? Interesting. Plad, okay. And you would be amazing, how many people say plaid?

Or flannel. You would be, I mean, like almost 90% of people say that. he gave her a cordial greeting. Oh, he's wearing his suit. Yeah. Bowtie. Okay. One of those words,

Hardy Welcome, when you trace that phrase, when you take specifically Hardy, when you trace that back to its origins, that is a, the origins, I think it's a Nordic language that was spoken by peasants.

Cordial welcome, I believe, stems from French. Like if you go into that. And so you end up with generations beyond where, I can't even, and I teach this, I haven't in my notes. But, you know, we don't know where the origin of those words came from,

but we still infer the same things. Yeah, we don't consciously know that it came from that, but we know that Josh Spillmaker would give a hearty welcome. It puts an image in your head. Because he's a peasant. Yeah, and he wears a flannel. But you get those images in your head centuries after those. Wow.

So language carries a lot of stuff with it that maybe you don't even. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And so I think, I thought that was a super interesting thing. And if, back to your point about, about, you know, you're trying to give this perspective, this is a language that is dying or greatly is like an endangered language. And so we don't know the history because we don't understand what they were saying. We don't understand what was being communicated. And that's, yeah, that's a real valuable part of the bias to inspect and to understand. And you know, I alluded to this in the podcast, but it's, and I think it's a hard judgment to say that

Tacomso would have been the greatest orator in American history. Like, that's probably a stretch. We've had some real winners. Because we don't have any recording of them. Right. It's hard to know. But what I think historians are trying to do is throw the guy a bone and say the way that he organized people, like the evidence of strong oration was there so strongly that we can

assume in the way people talked about it. Right. But the Shawnee language carried him. And now he would have been speaking some of his stuff in English, but most of his stuff, for him to inspire his people, it would have been, he would have been speaking Shawnee, most likely. Right. And in other tribes, he probably would have spoken some of their language.

But, you know, just kind of like this language carried this incredible orator. So, you know, like what was inside of it? Mm-hmm. But interesting. Jessica, second thing. Okay. I liked when you guys were talking about change. You know?

In my profession, I'm an architect. I interact with tons of people at different scales of development, you know, city planners and things like that. And change is a big topic, especially in a region like where we live, where we are on a trajectory of growth. And it's not going to stop. And yeah, so one thing that's talked about a lot in design and city planning and architecture is like, things are going to change. They're going to grow or they're going to go downhill.

And so the point is we've got to grow in the right way. So I was just thinking about like there are ways to keep what's good and still adjust because change is going to happen. Like, yeah. And I would say change is good. But also, like, we've got to be anchored by things that don't change. And it's really, as I was listening to this, I was listening to, was it? Dave Edmonds is the one who brought that up a lot. And as y'all were talking about it, I was thinking, like, you know, going back to my grandparents,

there are things that they believe in that they thought that were not good, not good for them, not good for others. They were restrictions, mindsets that restricted them as individuals. and restricted their scope of experience and that we could, I mean, going back even further, think about the change that having, like, heat has brought us and the change that good, solid medicine has improved, you know, yeah, and there's some things that I'm not going to go without. No, exactly. That I'm a big fan of, and I don't want to go without.

And I think that we can romanticize the old ways or the traditional ways, personally. Like, I think I am very much so in the camp. of people that could easily do that. And so it was an interesting take as I was listening to the two of you talk on the podcast. That was a big thought going through my mind is like, well, change is good, but also there's some things that shouldn't change. And there's some things that you don't want to change. And there is just this constant tension.

And I think like in our home, we would say migration is a value, something that we value, like the ability to migrate to higher perspectives and things like that. And that's actually like a declared value system of our home. At the same time, we're very much so deeply anchored to ancient principles and ancient value systems that we tell our kids, this isn't going to change. This is what you. And so I just think it's an interesting tension there. Like it's not something. And you can see why wars are fought over it.

Let me do a little cleanup on that section because that section was one that potentially somebody could have a hard time with. because what Dave Edgman was doing was he was trying to help, he was trying to help us in modern times here in America understand at a very small level what was happening to Tacomsa. He was not, because he talked about coal miners losing their way of life and rural America losing their way of life. And the problem with that argument is you could say, wait a minute, you're saying coal miners not being able to dig coal anymore.

is like, you know, the genocide of the people. Yeah. Do you see? Yeah. That's not what we're saying. That's not what he was saying. He was trying, he did a good job, I thought. I thought so good.

Of bringing it down to something that we could sort of identify with. Right. He wasn't saying, this is just like that. And, you know, somebody that was just looking for a reason to be mad at us for this podcast could, Mike could say that. Well, I just want to clean that up because what, what it did so. powerfully for me hearing that is to be like yeah de comso it wasn't like he was fighting for a way of life like he loved his people his land

just like we would love our people in our yeah he was a man and it hurts when that stuff is taken away and uh and it so i just wanted to say that i think that brings me back to what christie was saying earlier um like it doesn't have to be what we have is that one side one over the other side. But there's probably a beautiful connection there somewhere that was missed that both groups of people could have survived and had healthy balance of holding on to the old and growing with the new at the same time. It's hard to picture, right?

Because we've grown up in this world that's defined by that, especially in North America. And yeah. But I think it does survive, though. Like some of those Native American tendencies, I see it in my farming. You know, I'm working with nature. You know, I see it in hunting and conservation. Like, you know, like, because that Western way was, you know, we kill all the passenger pigeons or carry perjure, whatever. You know, like, we extinction, extinction, but yet you see like this model of hunting that's arisen.

And I'm not a hunter, but I love them. You know, and it's like, you see this model that's arisen of preservation. and I could kill more, but that would hurt. Right. You know, like, so, and I see that in my farming. I think there's other, you see, like, some of the rural community stuff of neighborness and taking care of your neighbors, even though it may not benefit you directly at that moment. Like, I feel like some of that may, I don't know, I feel like it is in there, you know,

it's probably subtle, especially, like, Ozark culture, because, I mean, like, that's where it butted up, We're right next to Oklahoma, you know? Yeah. For real, this part of the world, there was a lot of overlap of Native American and poor white farmers. A lot of overlap. And that goes back to what I talked about in the first one. I think what makes us American. Because if it had been all these Europeans that came over here, it would have, like, why are we so different than them today?

I think a lot of it had to do with Native Americans. So that culture Yeah, I agree. It's hard to put your finger on it. Spence, Impact, favorite part of it. Yeah, I think there's a couple like just the language.

There was a point in my life where I was almost bilingual, you know, like, and like this caused me to go back and look at that and just realize, you know, like it was Latin, like if I wanted to eat

I had to speak in Latin you know like it was pretty hardcore and just even going back and like I still read my Bible in Latin and it feels different like things are transmitted different and so it's I don't know it was sad to hear about the languages

like when you we're in northwest Arkansas you can drive to Talaqua and I think that's a Cherokee homeland right and you see all the like just letters I didn't even know existed. Yeah, you know, it's really cool as there, those are, and it, but it's that struggle, you know,

to preserve that heritage. And you just think of like, when you hear about all the languages being lost, it's like, man, those are like facets of humanity that are growing dim. You know, like we lose something every time one of those goes out. And I don't know, that, that part struggling. It's such a functional problem, though, because, you know, it's like, when you hear about the Shawnee's, you're like, well, I could learn Shawnee's. And then it's like, you're probably not, really.

I mean, would it be possible? It's almost like that language is a way of thinking. Yeah. You know, you have to change the way you think to be able to communicate in the Shawnee language. I think, too, like, one thing that I was able to identify with is I've got property on both sides of a river. And I love rivers. Like, I did grad school work. I really value Ozark Rivers.

They're incredibly unique. They're just. so underestimated and just how spectacular they are. There's more species of fish in Arkansas than most countries. Yeah, you know, like it's... Take that world. Yeah. It's more like the entire Western... Put that in your fish, but yeah. The entire Western U.S., you know, like an order of magnitude. And like I've, in one of my properties, like we have, there's a neighbor who just kind of like just goes and just digs up in the river and, and we have a really good section on our part. And it affects it. And like, I feel helpless sometimes because I value what they're doing. What they're

doing. Upstream. Yeah. And honestly, in Ozark streams, what happens downriver affects it too. Yep. And I, but he has a right to do it and I can't stop it. And, you know, I'm not even going to talk to them because I don't think it would be there. And it, you know, like, it's just there's a little bit of helplessness that you feel there seeing something that you value being destroyed callously. you know just so someone can play around or or do the things they want and and so i wonder like what must that have been like you know for the native americans like even like it wasn't during tecumse's time but like when the extermination of the buffalo like like that you're bison herds across you know like and just being powerless you know i don't know it's just kind of like

it's just something that spoke to me yeah yeah yeah well Wasn't there a quote in the first podcast about like an insatiable hunger for more, like, whether it was land or, I just think about what is that. You know, I talk to people sometimes today and I think, man, you have a, you have a fantastic life. You have good kids and, you know, they work really hard and you ask them and they're like, wow, I'm just trying to give my kids better. And I think, what's wrong with your life? Like, what? Yeah. Better what?

You know? And I think, I think Tecumps is, like, maybe I'm over romanticizing this, but, like, he's trying to preserve a way of life. Also, a mentality that says we don't have to go grab up. Like, what does that in the long term look like if his kids and his kids' kids' kids and their kids are always trying to feel of this need to grab, grab, grab. And that is, like, that is sad to me, you know? Like, when's enough enough?

Yeah. You know, that really is a dramatic difference. We didn't talk about it in this one. Robert Morgan covers it and I read it in his book on Boone but he talked about how the there's accounts of different tribes

believing that the white men were insane for trying to find gold like just like what are you after? Tell me again what you're looking for like why you came across the ocean and in this idea of wealth

like storing up wealth accumulating of wealth was just like, what? That's bizarre, man. You know, we've got what we need right here, you know. And that can be over-romanticized, too. And there was a scale of influence of the cultures, too. Like, later in the time period, there was probably some of the tribes that were very

influenced by money. I mean, and Dave Edmunds talked about it. They were getting money from the government. They were getting supplies. They were settling down and farming. Yeah, there were more people. And this is what you've got to say and understand. And again, it's so complex.

We're talking about Tecumsa because he was actually an outlier. Like a lot of the tribes wanted to assimilate. They were getting money from the government. They had a good land deal. They, you know, a lot of the tribes wanted to assimilate. An oversimplification of it would be all the Native Americans were fighting against America.

There were actually a lot of tribes fighting with America against the French and other Indians. And that's why in a two-hour podcast, you just can't cover the whole thing. I told somebody the other day I said, I'm for sure going to get it wrong in some places. But what I want people that listen to this podcast to take home is that when they think about this place that we live

and think about the Native Americans is that it is wildly more complex than you could ever imagine. Yeah, absolutely. You know, when you think about the language and you think about some of these tribes getting money from the government and then you have this guy like Tacoma that is standing against the trend. And in some ways probably knew,

You know, I wonder if he really thought he could win. I often wonder about that. If he knew he was going to be a martyr. Those guys, those guys had something inside of them. And this was very real. That to die was like noble. Like his brother, Chisaquo, that said, I'd rather have the fowls of the air, pick my bones.

Than dying camp. Yeah. And that's something that was deep inside of them. And so I wonder if to come so. I wonder if he really thought he could win. I think he probably did. I think he probably did. On Blood Trails, the stories don't end when the hunt is over.

They just get darker. I've seen something in the road. I instantly thought it was a sleeping bag. And there was a full of blood. Oh, my God. He doesn't have a hit. Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors. Where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce, and the truth gets buried.

under brush and silence. Indications were he should be right there, but he wasn't. This season, we're going deeper. From cold case files to whispered suspicions, from remote mountains to frozen backwoods. Each story begins in the wilderness and ends in darkness. Because out here, there are no witnesses, no cameras, just fragments and the people left behind trying to piece them back together.

He's not an honest person. He's incapable of being honest. Somebody somewhere knows something. I'm Jordan Sillers. Season 2 of Blood Trails premieres April 16th. Follow now on Apple, I Heart, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Josh, favorite part. So I was also very, very impacted by the discussion online with with Chief Ben Barnes.

But I do want to say the other thing that is, you know, adjacent to Tacumsa, to Comsa's history is I I was real fascinated by how they talked about the the aspect of community and how, you know, as a Shawnee, he would have had many fathers and many mothers and many brothers. And I thought, what an amazing, beautiful thing that really, you know, I don't think that Tecumse could have been who he was without that. Yeah. And recognizing the fact of the fingerprint of so many people and so many interactions and relationships that produced who he was and gave him the ability to see a united Native American front. Yeah. And so I just, you know, in short, I think that really impacted me.

And, you know, it makes me think about our lives, Christy and I with our kids and how we have, we have really, you know, raised our family together closely with friends, you know, with you guys and our kids and with other people that we know and care for dearly and have shared life and shared community together. And it's produced these young people who are competent and responsible and have really themselves gone against the trend of the age. I just, that, that really impacted me seeing that, seeing that thing inside of him. I love that. And also the identity, right?

Like, he tells that story about Boone. And just like, I think we're a society that doesn't have that. Like, you're a man now, like a lot of cultures have, like, you're a man now because you go through this. And, like how Boone went through the purification, I think you said. And now you belong to the tribe. And there's no question. Yeah.

You know, and there's very few, I think, instant. institutions, like I think maybe baptism would be one, like in Christianity, but where you actually, where you have that clear demarcation of identity. And that was powerful to me. Yeah. Yeah. Misty, have you gone yet? Not really. I've just commented on others. I think, you know, I just, I think the whole, I love hearing what everybody else has said. I could comment really on what Spence and Josh said, but I know we're kind of running low on time. I think to me, as I look at this, as I look at the whole podcast, and it kind of goes back to what you said a few minutes ago, it does, and I hope at least it does this for people, it makes you see things to the best of your

ability to extract this information and to extract an accurate history from Tecumse's perspective. And I think, you know, there's kind of a couple of different schools of thought are camps. I grew up hearing one exclusive camp, which was, you know, that drive that the Americans have, that was very much idealized in the world and in the places I grew up. The pioneer. Yeah, the pioneer. And I'm telling you, I think there's some really good stuff in it. Like there's some stuff in that that has been really meaningful, even inside my life as an adult, just to metaphorically.

So, I mean, there's some good stuff in that. it's also when I hear these stories and I do feel some of the influence of of those things still on our culture and you realize man that's also some really good stuff and I want to understand that guy's perspective as well and he, Ticumsa is a hero and it doesn't mean Ticumsa is perfect and it doesn't mean the Native Americans were perfect or like I think that you can have these conversations without and I think you did a good job on that like I actually think that you did present that. Yucks.

Yeah. I think you did a good job on that. Like as I was listening to it, I thought, yeah, this helps people see. Because it is a different mindset. Like it is, we don't speak that language. We don't have those words, those symbols, those rights of passages like you just described. And so we need people to help interpret that for us. But I thought what Dave Edmonds did with comparing it not, and like you said, it's not,

not the atrocities that were committed, but just people fighting for their way of life. I thought, as I listened to that section, I thought, yep, I can see exactly what he wanted. I'm sympathetic to it, and I see how he is just as much a hero for fighting for his way as anyone I know. And so I thought it was, you did a great job for that.

And I don't know, like, when you're thinking about solutions, okay, well, how do you resolve all this? How do you? And that's where I think it gets really complicated. And, but I think, I think as far as the value of understanding someone's perspective and understanding what he was trying to do, I got all sorts of respect for him.

Yeah. All sorts of respect for him. Yeah. You know, it's real interesting for me inside these series with these guys. I, you know, these actors that do this, what's the type of acting when they, like. Pantamine. When they, like, become the person.

Oh, method acting. Method acting. Okay. I do not do that in a podcast. I do really feel, like, connected to these guys. Yeah. Uh-huh. I really do.

And it, like, I'm all, like, when we ended the Boone series, like, I really was sad. Like, I don't know if you could hear it in my voice at the end of the Boone series, but, like, I was almost in tears. For real, in this office by myself. It's a true story. It's the same way with the Kums. Like, I'm already... like wishing that it was longer because right now

in this six week period like I just I'm thinking about him a lot like the other day I was driving in my truck and again the biggest challenge with with time and history is that you hear about somebody from that died in 1813 and they they aren't real to you

and Tecumse was a human he was not a he was not a comic book character. He had major flaws. He had some major good stuff. And I just envisioned like literally Tacoma right into my truck with me.

Just like and being able to communicate with him. And just like the little sliver of thought just like this is a real person. And it was yeah, I say all that to say. I really feel like I kind of dive into.

these guys and wish it was longer. Yeah, that's what makes you a great storyteller, Clay. Well, man, two compliments. Two compliments. The love flying around in this room right now. And if you could get to Kumsa, an interview for the podcast, that would be great.

Oh, man. That would be killer. Hey, I'm not going to try to foreshadow any, but we will be having an induction. I'm not going to say who, but we will be having some inductions into the Bear Gris Hall of Fame. Very soon.

It's probably me and Christy, right? Whoa, whoa, whoa. The rooster call wasn't that, dude. There will be two new members of the Bear Greas Hall of Fame, which we don't throw that around lightly. No, that is serious. After this series. Can we also, I just think, adopt from this podcast series, the whole, what is it,

aero flights, like distance-wise, if Josh is like, hey, Christy, where are you? And I'm, like, four aeroflights from the house. Yes. I feel like that should become a part of. I am so bad with time, space, estimating the number of people who were at things, the size that, I mean, that would be very hard for me. I just make it up.

But if you went out and shot a couple arrows, an arrow flight's pretty low. I would say it's about 200 yards. Okay. And 200 yards would be about 600 feet. 200 yards would be less than a quarter of a mile. About eight to 900 yards and a half mile. So a quarter mile would be like 450 yards.

What are we eight aeroplanes to Spence his house? Well, not that far. Probably like three. Three aeroflights. I think it was a quarter mile south of the town. I just thought that was kind of epic. Yeah, I thought it was too. I thought it was too.

Well, thank you all so much for coming. Jessica, what an honor to have you here. Thanks. Yes. Christy, what an honor to have you here. I was happy to be here. Terrell Spencer, what an honor to have here. Back to the practice squad.

And here we are. Chop lever over here. You guys are the best. Foggy and Josh. And he didn't even mention the part where he talked about the land bridge. Yeah, you said to talk about the Bering Land Bridge. It probably heard him that Josh wasn't interviewed on that. Josh was always wanted to be in an interview.

Another opportunity wasted that on the podcast. One day, Josh. One day. One day. All right, guys. Thank you so much, and there will be one final Tecumse episode titled Tecumse's death. Oh, man. Way to bring it down.

Are you going to make us cry? I don't know. He might make himself cry. If he does a good job. Alone in his office. Is there a flaming arrow somewhere? I hope so. Yeah.

There should be. There should be. Last spring, Clay Newcomb and I collaborated with Jason Phelps at Phelps game calls in building each of our own favorite turkey diaphragms called Prime Cut. Now I'm going to tell you, I love mine because it's easy to use. I'm not going to go, I'm not going to win a turkey calling contest. It's just not going to happen. But when I run this call, I get the sounds that gobblers are looking for.

I have a great turkey hunting track record. If you go listen to real turkeys out in the woods, they're not going to win calling contests, right? That's who I listen to. I can make those sounds on my cut. I also hunt with Phelps's cut, and I hunt with Clay's cut because they're all three great cuts. Check out Prime Cuts at Phelps Game Calls.com. I think you'll be glad you did. And you'll find out that the Steve Rinella cut is an easy-to-use cut for beginning callers

who just want to start making good turkey noises and getting action. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.