Bedros Keuilian Podcast Show - 189. The Power of Gut Instinct

Episode Date: May 18, 2021

Have you ever been told to "Go with your gut?" It's quite possibly one of the most common pieces of professional advice given. In fact, it's a superpower that a lot of successful entrepreneurs rely on when tough decisions need to be made. It's that small inner voice that helps to decide if you should trust someone, invest in a business, or even walk away from an opportunity if it sounds "too good to be true." However, it takes experience to build that trust with yourself. In today's Inside Look, Bedros does a deep dive with Howie Zales, an Emmy Award-winning camera operator who, over the last 35 years, has worked across a dozen Super Bowls, multiple Olympic Games, dozens of Wrestlemania PPVs, and 20 Kentucky Derby Horse Races. Howie shares his insight into building a well-paid freelance career, becoming an entrepreneur, the growth mindset it takes to evolve, developing multiple streams of income, why trusting your gut is a smart play, and so much more.  "Go with your gut. Every time I do it, it's the right decision."  -Howie Zales Here's what you don't want to miss: 2:00 Combining your passion with a lifelong career 10:10 Risking your life for what you love 13:36 From freelance camera operator to entrepreneur  16:20 The driving force behind success 20:16 The growth mindset it takes to evolve  23:48 How to create multiple revenue streams 27:36 Leveraging your career success to build social proof 30:00 Going through uncertain times and doing things differently 37:22 Scaling your ideas and how to think outside the box 42:45 How to manage multiple income streams  Connect with Howie Zales: http://hjzproductions.com/ https://www.instagram.com/hjzprod/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/howardzales/ https://www.viridityentertainment.com/ Connect with Bedros Keuilian:   Instagram https://www.instagram.com/bedroskeuilian/ Facebook https://www.facebook.com/bedroskeuilian/ Youtube https://www.youtube.com/user/KeuilianInc Twitter https://twitter.com/bedroskeuilian LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/bedroskeuilian/

Go with your gut. Why? Go with your gut. Why? Because every time I do it, it's the right decision that led to me meeting you. Yeah. It led to success in my first business. Then last time I went my gut feeling, I met Jamie and started my second big business.

So go with your gut. Hey, friends. Welcome to another Empire show. My name is Bedros Kulian, and this is an inside look. And today we've got someone really cool who's got a very different type of business. that we're going to do a deep dive in, and his name is Howie Zales. Now, Howie is a coaching client of mine and also a good friend. And if you've watched any kind of sports television broadcasts in years past,

you've probably seen Howie's work, or at least a work, of his camera operators. Howie? Welcome to the show. How you doing? Grateful to be here. Yeah, yeah. Grateful for having you here because, dude, so here we are in May of 2021. And, you know, you started off as a camera operator some 30 some odd years ago, right? Yeah.

And you don't look at day over 25. And, well, the year 2020 really put your business into a tailspin. And we'll get to that in a moment. And I just wanted to kind of leave that nugget out there for our audience. But tell folks how you got into the camera operator space, specifically in the sports world. Well, growing up, you know, my goal was a really professional baseball.

I did everything possible to make that happen. But I knew I needed a backup. And in high school, I think it was 11th or 12th grade, there was a, I needed one elective. I didn't love school. So this elective TV production sounded really cool. Yeah. Trip to NBC Studios and 30 Rock to get a tour

and to see a live show being videotaped. How bad could that be, right? Yeah. And I just fell in love with TV. TV production. And I knew I'd write that and there, sports and TV. Well, I'll tell you, here's what's nuts is how you, you're an Emmy Award winning camera operator. And, you know, to have that accolade and then move forward over the next several years in your career and then become an entrepreneur, you've obviously done a lot of things right. And so we'll get to that.

But you go to 30 Rock, you're sitting there and you're watching this and you're like, hey, that's what I want to do. Yeah. And combined with the course that we took, right, producing high school events and doing the camera work for the shows, the high school shows, the musicals that they did. I'm like, this is so cool. How do I combine this with sports? By love of sports, I need to combine this. I knew exactly what I wanted to do.

Gotcha. So really you're like, right, because I know I wanted to play professional baseball, but that may not pan out. So I do like this thing, which is operating a camera and really being able to get into production and broadcast, however, I want to combine it with sports. Yep. And were there, like, was that a big industry back then? Like, you know, sports camera operators?

You know, I went to college for, I only sought out colleges that had TV production programs, and I went to an awesome college, Plattsburgh State and upstate New York. And I got to touch the equipment from day one, and it was an awesome experience, but they never said how to get into it. Huh. They never talked about, they never used the word free.

freelancer is in the television business. 99% of people are freelancers. So there was no advice, no nothing on how to get into it. So I took a few jobs as a production assistant that had news job shooting news. How exciting was that shooting the news? It was good until one bad car accident that they wanted to see like the body. And you know what? I was just done.

Yeah. Oh, that's weird. Yeah. I always wondered that about like the dude operating the camera, like for news, you know, anchors who are out there on the scene. It's like, that person, like, is seeing stuff at a very different way than the person who's standing in front of the scene and just reporting on it. Yeah. Yeah. So that was it. That was the thing that broke the cameras back. That was the thing that broke the cameras back. I had also worked with a really great reporter.

And we had a lot of fun doing, you know, like feature types. stories like good stories and then he left and I started freelancing in television sports so for those who don't know what is freelancing so freelancer basically is someone that is an independent contractor you don't have a full-time job you don't get paid every two weeks you get paid when you work got it and instead of a W-2 you get a 1099 from all the clients that you work so then but then you have to hustle and get your own gigs you have to hustle and get your own gigs, you need to set aside

like 30% of what you make from each check to cover your taxes. Right, right. That's a big thing. And then since income, at least in the beginning, until you're in high demand, until you win an Emmy Award, then you're in high demand. But until then, it's a feast or famine, I imagine.

Yeah, you're a salesperson, you're a camera operator, mostly a salesperson, and you're only as good as the last job you did. Ooh, yeah, yeah. So obviously you did pretty decent, considering all places that you've been and all the like amazing celebrities and world athletes that you have caught on camera like the man that owns the most gold medals in Olympics Michael Phelps yeah what was that like the first time you

were there so we were in Italy and you know everyone had heard of Michael Phelps because of the Olympic trials and everything and he was like the big star but no one knew he what he would become and I was the camera operator that kind of bent down and picked him out of the pool as he won his first gold medal as a picture of me in the USA today and it's just him and me I'm like literally down there on no kidding yeah yeah and you had no like no one knows who he was going to become no no that is insane yeah what olympics was that that was Italy I don't remember what number but summer Olympics of okay that was Italy and of course he went on to win 20 some odd gold medals yeah and then in the

sizzle reel that I just saw that you had produced and you were showing me for you all that don't know apparently the average human swims at about two miles per hour yeah and phelps uh swims at six miles per hour like that has freaking bananas man he's like a human torpedo yeah like that is just nuts and so you know like you name the sport you've done it pretty much yeah from like every major league sport out there. When you and I connected, I don't know, a couple of years ago, you were doing one particular sport on a regular basis, which was WWE wrestling, right? How is that experience compared to professional sports?

It was a great experience. I met the WWE people over 20 years ago doing the XFL, the original XFL. I was on the sidelines working for NBC. Is XFL the arena football? No, that was the XFL or extreme football, I guess it was called. It was eight teams. Did Vince McMahon start that? And at the time, Vincent McMahon and Dick Eversoll from NBC started it.

NBC had just lost football to, I think, CBS or Fox. So they were dying for football and they started this league together. And so that's how I met the wrestling people, was on the sideline. and they saw me running up and down the sideline because this was like the first big gig I got, you know, a big traveling job. Now, were you at that point a camera operator or at this point, are you now an entrepreneur

that have where you have your own camera guys under you? I'm more of a camera operator this time. I had my, the beginning, I had just started the beginnings of my first business, HJZ productions, but wasn't really doing much. It was more camera operator this time. Gotcha. So the bulk of your income was coming from,

being an actual operator. Yeah, and the thing that a camera or someone in the TV business wants is a steady gig, right? Sure. So 12 games of football, that's... How's it getting more steady than that? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so, okay, I got to ask, because I'm curious for myself, so I'm sure the audience is curious. During all the different sidelines that you've been on in all the different sports. Yeah. Like, I'm sure at least someone's run over you or collapsed into you.

What are the craziest things that have happened? For you, it's normal. There's some good stories. I've had three, maybe four concussions. Good Lord! Yeah, I was on the side that I didn't. And what led to the XFL was I did a horse race that aired on NBC, and I met the director from NBC.

And he was like, you know, we're starting this new football league, the XFL if you're interested, I'd love to have you on it. But why don't you come to Notre Dame, because NBC did Notre Dame for years, and we'll see your football experience. So I'm like, that's awesome. Sure. So I shot Notre Dame and I'm shooting a punt.

And the next thing I know I'm in the hospital. What happened was I went with the ball and the ball went to the other side of the field. But two guys were like grappling as they were running down the field for no reason at my side of the field because the ball was completely on the other side. They came out of bounds, hit me, knocked me down. And I only know this because I saw all 12 cameras. is replays. All the different angles.

They took me a DVD of all the replays of me getting knocked out. And I broke my tailbone and had a concussion. Holy smokes. All I kept complaining about was that my ass hurt because I got knocked on my... Yeah. You know, and I had a bad concussion. And then... Was that the first concussion?

That might have been the second. I had another one doing football. but the other one that probably should have killed me was I was doing baseball for the New York Mets at City Field. No, it's Shea Stating before City Field. So I'm doing low third, and this is obviously the camera

that's on the third base side. And at that time, it was kind of above the dugout, and I was doing low third. There was a runner on second, so my job was to shoot the runner on second, but watch the pitch, right? So you know, God forbid, if the ball comes your way, well, ball came my way. Oh, shoot.

Right there. No kidding. You still have the knot. Not. And behind me, because we're field level, right? So behind me was a chain. I went up and over the chain into the Colorado Rockies dugout. And I was.

Like from the force of the ball. Yeah. And my camera was shooting the runner on second. And when I got hit and fell backwards, it kind of pan. my camera to the pitchers mound. And they use, and I only know this from other people. They used my camera three times because they were like tending to me in the

dugout and so the game had paused. So they used my camera three times. On the third time the pitcher's walking around the pitchers mound and walks off from the grass and I didn't pan with him. So they're yelling at me. I'm half dead, but they're yelling at me. By the time they realized that it was

me that got hurt, you know, kind of reached the TV truck at that point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Holy smoke. So I don't suppose you have, I don't know why I'm fascinated by something so weird like this, but how fast was that ball traveling? You've got to know. So it was an off-speed pitch. So it was like a slow, like a curveball I was told.

And Chuck McKeown, Joe McEwen from the New York Mets kind of like reached out and like told it. So I had to be going 100 miles an hour. Jam and at Christmas. And the doctor said like another inch over would have killed me instantly because as you get closer to the forehead, it gets tender, more tender. So it hit me like right in the right spot. Dude, you got lucky. Lucky. Everyone was like, oh my God, it's horrible, hard.

I'm like, no, I'm super lucky. I mean, not that we would have been talking about this kind of stuff in our coaching sessions or coaching calls, but holy crap. It's like I've known you for a while now. And it's like I had no clue. And I went up and over and fell six feet. But I felt like like a like a. As if that wasn't enough. Right.

Yeah. And they said like I still had the headsets on my head, you know. That's commitment. Yeah. That's good. Maine, y'all, y'all have no risk here. I mean, we got to start throwing stuff at Yagga. All right.

So, man, I don't know. I was fascinated by that. And so, you know, that was obviously in your death experiences. And so I imagine it's kind of standard practice for all camera operators that are on the sidelines. You're going to get hit, tackled, whatever, at some point. You just take that. And there's certain things you can do to try to avoid it. Sure.

But it's coming. It's coming. It's coming. Fair enough. And so at what point were you like, starting to kind of process this idea that maybe I want to be an entrepreneur and not just like a freelance camera operator the whole time like what makes you take that leap into the entrepreneurial space so a friend of mine that I went from elementary school through college with he he was

working at MSNBC at the time and I don't know if you remember I miss he did his radio show yeah yeah yeah once in a while and they broadcast his radio show from the studio once in a while they would take his show on the road so um he called me and say hey Howie you know they're doing, I miss a show from wherever it was. Can you shoot it? Help us shoot it. I'm like, sure, why not? I'm a freelancer, so job's a job.

And he goes, do you have any friends? And I was like, yeah, sure. So boom, my business started literally that day. Gotcha. I didn't take it seriously enough in terms of thinking that I was an entrepreneur for a few years. It was always a side thing. It was always there. It was always generating income for me.

but I never really thought that I was an entrepreneur until a good eight to ten years later. Why is that? Because I think I was living in upstate New York. Most of my jobs were in New York. I was kind of removed from it. We didn't do a lot of events, but we did enough that it was definitely providing me enough income.

Sure. And then, you know, I got divorced and I moved down to New York and then eventually remarried. I got to thinking, you know, I can't do this forever. And because I do a handheld camera, I don't do one of the big studio cameras. I can't be running up and down on the football field, sideline forever.

Yeah. I really need to. And how old were you at this point when you're having this thought process? 40. Okay. So it's only in the last like 10, 10 years. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And so at that point, you're like, wait a minute. They asked me if I have any friends. I kind of pimp out my friends to these guys and maybe you help negotiate what,

because your friends, you know, they don't probably know how this is going to work. So you're like, hey, you know what, I'll negotiate the terms, et cetera, and you pay me and I pay them. Is that kind of how it went? Yeah, and yes, exactly.

And then in like 2007, 2008, the union in New York really kind of came to fruition, where the rates were kind of standardized, and now I was kind of matched up against my competition. I couldn't charge really much more than my competition. Gotcha. So what really, and I didn't even realize until I met you, that I've been a sales,

salesperson salesman all along. Your whole life. Because I got to sell me. Yeah. Because the rates are the rates. If I charge more, they're going to use the person that's cheaper, right? So I got to sell me. And I never really realized that I was a salesperson. Isn't that funny that we go through life, not realizing that we're oftentimes selling? Because everyone's like, well, I don't know how to sell. It's like, look, if someone asks you, how are you? And you're like, fine, thank you. You're depending on the level of enthusiasm or conviction you use in your voice, that's you're trying to persuade someone that you're fine thank you. Like, I'm fine, thank you, leave me alone.

So we are always selling. But it's interesting that so many people I come across go, you know, I didn't realize I've been selling for all these years. Because as a freelancer, someone does want to know. Like, look, price is the same. Right. Why should I use you? So, like, do you happen to remember any of your pitch or any of your, like, did you ever

stumble upon? Like, if I, when I say this line, my closing percentage goes up or I get the job, anything like that? A funny story. I called, I had just started freelancing, and it was before I left my news job. So I called ESPN and said, hey, I'm Howie. I've been doing this, and I listed off the events that I've done. And she said, well, how long have I been doing this?

And I said, you know, maybe a year. And she goes, call me back at five. Damn. So I put it in my calendar and I called Donna back at ESPN five years later, tell her what I've done. And she's like, wow, I said that. Yeah. But yeah. Did you end up working with her?

I did a few events for them, yeah. Okay. You know what? There's a great lesson there, guys. I want you to pay attention to this that success is not found in one year. It may be found in 5, 10, 15, 20, 35 years, right? And you literally put it in your calendar. Were you pissed off when she said that?

She said, called me in 5? Yeah, that's what drove me. That was one of the driving forces to get better. And so you're like, I'm going to put it in my calendar. And in that time, I'm going to get better. I'm going to show her and end up doing something with them. Yeah, and never stopped asking questions, learning. Yeah, good for you. Good for you. That driving force. What was your driving force? Because as I

got to know you, I saw that how he has a bit of a good chip on his shoulder. There's definitely a bad chip on someone's shoulder where they're like, they're angry, they drink heavily, whatever. And there's a chip on their shoulder. We're like, you know what? I'm going to go prove to the world that I'm good at my craft. I'm always going to get better and I can be the top one percent. Where? What drives you? What drove you? What drove me was So one of the biggest things, I was living in upstate New York where there was no sports. I was driving to New York in Boston to work local sports in New York. So I'm like, I can't keep driving 250 miles to do one day or two days.

I got to improve and get on like a tour, like 12 weeks, 16 weeks of football. So that was one driving force. Driving force to make money. I didn't want to make $20,000. a year shooting news. And, you know, money, like you said, money's a tool. It is.

Get what you want. And it solves the problem of not having money, right? Yeah. So now as we fast forward, 2007, 2008, you're kind of realizing, all right, you know, this side gig of a business that I have is making me money.

Before the camera started rolling, you told me something interesting. You're like, hey, you know, it wasn't until like maybe a year and a half two years. years ago that I started to think of myself as an entrepreneur. Yeah. And so you said your wife tells you something or, you know, like, kind of corrected you. So when people would ask you, hey, what do you do for a living, even like a couple years

ago, what would you say? I'd say I work for WWE and NBC Sports. I'm a camera operator. I'm a camera operator. Yet you have all these like people working for you, you've got a payroll company. And I didn't even know if I realized that I had a two to three million dollar business going. And my wife, Jenny, said, she said, you're an entrepreneur, you're a business owner.

Yeah. You do the camera stuff on the side. Yeah. Because you were probably doing more entrepreneurial stuff, less camera stuff at this point. Yeah, and... I mean, you don't... Because no camera operators making $2 to $3 million a year in a business. No, and I was...

I didn't need, and it took a lot of proving to me. Yeah. Because, you know, as a freelancer, it's a scary lifestyle, right? You only get paid when you work. Right. So she had been trying to get me to give up the camera work for a while and focus on the business. And it took almost the pandemic to make me believe that I can get by without it. Huh, ain't that something.

So let's kind of shift gears there because as you and I meet, you know, there's, and this is so neat. Guys, if you guys are watching this or listening to this, you've got to understand in whatever line of business you're in, the fixed mindset says this is how I make my money. The growth mindset or the open mindset says, you know what? Yeah, okay, I used to be a camera operator. Now I have a business where I kind of have camera operators that I essentially lease out to sports events that are happening. And that's how you started making your money. But then you were like, hey, I think I'd like to do something different.

I think I'd like to create a course for people who want to become camera operators, right? And it's that open-mindedness, that ability to think out of the box, which we talked about upstairs when we were doing your half-day coaching there, that we're like, all right, man, well, this is going to be another income stream for you. And we kind of came out the gate in our coaching program working together. So where did you get this idea of like, hey, I want to create a course where I can teach people to, I guess, you know, whatever, young men and women who want to operate a camera to do this. and then fast track into the industry. Where did that idea come from? Mostly, you help me open up my head to think that I can even think about doing something like that.

I never, you know, my mother's a teacher, I never would have thought that I was going to be a teacher or even have it in me. But I knew that I knew I had a big network of people and that I could offer a lot to young people getting into the business. I knew my struggles of how difficult it is to get into the business, and it is difficult because there's no training ground. Years and years ago, the training ground was you would work for the networks, and then they'd put you on events. Well, that doesn't exist

anymore because everyone's freelancing. There's no training ground. So I got, and I went to a few conventions, and I kept listening to people say how old the freelancers are, who's going to replace the current group of camera people and audio people and replay people where what are we going to do there's no so i was like that's cemented into my mind and you help me open up my brain that i could do that yeah and uh i never thought i would write a book to go along with let alone to go along to go along with it yeah what what a great experience right and this goes for any industry like find the problem that you were having because you were having a when you're young and unproven and a freelancer No one taught you how to sell yourself.

No one taught you the business side of it. No one taught you how to pitch yourself. And so you're like, man, I don't want people who are going to just now develop the skill to have to suffer like I did. So whatever that sucked for you, be the solution to that. And then whatever new problems exist, because as the industry kind of got more mature, freelancers were getting a little longer in the tooth, right? And everyone's like, hey, who's going to replace them? And you're like, wait a minute, there's a problem in my industry.

And where everyone else focuses on the problem, you're like, you know what, man, hey, B, I think we have a potential opportunity for a solution in the form of a course where you can teach people. So what, as we built out your course, obviously I know what it is, what does your course teach this young, you know, camera operators who are maybe going to college to learn broadcast or TV production to help them fast track? So great question. Our course teaches how to go back getting clients, how to talk to possible clients on the phone, what to say, how to sell yourself. Yeah. Right. And we give them the clients. We tell them who to call.

We came up with basically a written script of what to say. A pitch. And then in the class, we make sure everyone go around the room, make sure everyone, gets their turn on doing it. We bring in equipment, the real equipment that they would use on site and teach them how to coil cable, teach them how to use the cameras.

So the first time they see a camera on site, it's not going to be the first time that they've seen it. And we wrote a book and telling them how to act on the job, what to do from the second they get there to the location, to the second they leave, what their responsibilities are in each position. and how to shoot from every camera angle,

baseball, basketball, soccer, hockey, and boxing. I mean, every director has his own style, but these are the basic rules to follow. Yeah, which you would have killed to get access to that information. Yeah, it took me... What an advantage it would have given you, and they would have said, hey, Howie, we'll take you over this new guy. Yeah, I mean, football is...

Every sport is difficult to shoot, but, I mean, there's a hundred different scenarios in football, and we outlined it all. Yeah, I was going to ask you. So is football the hardest to shoot? Football and baseball. Football and baseball. Because it all depends on baseball.

If there's a right-y-barter-up, your responsibilities are different. And if it's one-two-outs, your responsibilities are different. Oh, wow. Football is, where is the ball in the field and which way is it going? Yeah. Because your responsibilities are different if the ball is between the 30-yard line and the goal or between the 30 and the 30. and if it's going the opposite direction, it's completely different.

Ain't that something? Yeah. It's all a formula. Here, it's all formula. And here are the rest of us sitting at home with our guacamole watching. Yeah. Not even, just, I mean, listen, whether I only watch one sporting event a year, which is a Super Bowl, and that's because Jason Frugia invites me to his house, and he feeds me guacamole and lots of beer.

And that's a great reason to go. But then whenever I've gone to sporting events, I see camera people down there. I didn't know there was all that formalic thing. I just thought, aimed the goddamn camera towards the guy with the ball and then just follow the ball. Yeah, that's what we teach, and we teach people how to get prepared for the show. You know, you can't just show up to the game. You've got to know what are the storylines. Who's important?

Who are the announcers going to be talking about? And we teach them how to listen to the director in one year and listen to the announcers in the other, so you know who to shoot based on what the announcers are talking. Holy smokes, there's a lot going on. So that's a pretty cool thing. So, of course, we created the course and you went off selling it. You know, I was remiss and I didn't ask you, how did you get your Emmy Award?

How do you win an Emmy Award? That's pretty dope. Thank you. Our camera work for the Beijing Olympics. The Beijing Olympics? Yeah, we did gymnastics. Okay, that's another very high-speed moving bodies that you got to keep track of, right?

It was amazing. I was with the U.S. women when they won their gold medal. No kidding. Again, this is a novice asking, but I'm asking for our audience. Was there like a specific shot that someone, like who gives you that? Like obviously. It was our overall camera work. Okay. Yeah.

That is pretty neat. So I was one of, I think was there maybe eight of us. Okay. I think eight of us. And at that point you were a freelancer? Yes. Okay. Yeah.

So you're a freelancer at the Beijing Olympics. And how does it feel when they're like, hey, man, you all just got the Emmy for the quality of work you did? Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah. But did that change how you got hired or how you got paid? I never even, and I have the Emmy sitting in my house I see it every single day. I never refer to myself as an Emmy Award camera operator until I think you were the one that told me, you're doing this course about camera work and you don't tell them that you're an Emmy Award? Right?

Yeah. Yeah. It's so funny. When I get clients who are doctors and, you know, they just introduce themselves as whoever, Dr. Amy, Dr. Bob. But they don't say doctor. They say Amy or Bob. And I'm like, aren't you a doctor? Yes.

Listen, you're Amy or Bob to me. But to the rest of the world, you're a doctor, right? It's so important to use that point of differentiation. And clearly an Emmy Award differentiates you from other camera operators. And so that's a pretty cool thing, man. Holy smokes. I thought you were going to say like, oh, I caught, you know, Hulk, doing a

doing off the top ropes or something at the WWE with a Beijing Olympics gymnastics yeah that's that's neat I'm super grateful for the experience did any way

I don't know I'm just picturing like some kid just smashing into one of you guys did anything anything weird happen like that at the Olympics where someone just eats it

in terms of like a camera camera operator no because there's so many rules and you got to be super careful yeah no that I haven't seen nothing weird like that

no good no concussions, baseball is coming at you. That would be an international incident. Yeah, right. You're like, I had an international concussion. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, so, and then, you know, now here you are running a, you know, two to three million dollar business, and then you start coaching with me,

and now we're creating this new leg of your business, which is the course and the education piece, which is going to be another revenue stream for you, and it's going to solve a problem, a glaring problem in your industry. And we're kicking ass, we're taking names, we built the funnel, you put a, You put several people through it. And then bang, coronavirus. Yes. And March 11.

Right? March 11. And then part of the course was that, hey, when you go through the course, I'm going to give you hands-on experience. Like, you're going to take them to all these events that they could literally be interns. Interns. Now there's no fucking event for them to go to because it's Corona time. What does that do to your business, the seven-figure business? Like, is it like a light switch overnight?

Literally. First of all, with the course, we had the whole idea of, you know, like you said, the people would come on to the job and they would get on-the-job training. Yeah. This is a difficult industry. There's no training ground like we've talked about. And this is going to be a perfect way to do it. Yeah.

And now you've got 35 years of industry reputation where you can pretty much take these young, young, talented operators, all these operators are going to become talented. and introduce them and get them on the floor like you never had the opportunity to. Right. I had mentors and all along my career. So that's what I was wanting to be. It was these people's mentor.

And I had people signed on to work with me to be the on-site mentor also. And we were gonna pay them to be a part of it. And then coronavirus hit. And so not only, Did that, we had to pivot that and change that. All of our events that we were, our hiring events, just overnight like everyone else, just went away. Poof goes away.

What amount of panic takes place at home? Because I can tell you that, you know, in my home, it wasn't so much. There was certainly uncertainty. I wouldn't say like I wasn't running around with my hair on fire because I had gone through the housing market crash earlier than that, you know, in 2008. So I knew uncertainty, but this was the first time that I was like, holy crap, we just shut down all of our gyms. I just announced to all of our franchise owners to shut down our gyms for a two-week period to flatten the curb.

And in the back of my mind, I'm like, two to four weeks, we'll be back. But then behind the back of that mind, I was like, if we don't come back fast enough, we're not going to live to be a franchise. And it was scary. What was the kind of vibe at your house with you and your wife and, you know, who's your business partner in this as well, right? Yeah, it was my nature is kind of even keeled. Yeah. And that's how I got the name for my second company.

I'll talk about that in a minute. But it wasn't horrible at the beginning because I knew that as a sort of a payroll business, that's what we do. Yeah. We had a lot of money still outstanding to come in. Right. So I knew right away that we had a good amount of money that was going to come in. Yeah. So that gave you some peace of mind. It gave me some peace of mind. There's no future work right now, but there's at least money scheduled to come in.

And our union contracts say we need to pay within two weeks. Sometimes it takes months to get paid. So fortunately, we had a lot of money still to come in. Got it. Did all that come in? All that came in. Okay. That's a good thing. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good thing. And so now that you know that, you're like, okay, obviously things aren't going back to normal in two weeks like we thought. Right. And so it's now, you know, spent two months, three months, four months.

And we start this interesting rebirth of your business. Yeah. Why don't you share that with everyone? So it all started with the West Point graduation. Yeah. We were hired by West Point to produce their graduation because they weren't allowing any parents. Just the cadets were going to be allowed to attend. And they had never done anything like this before.

So it was going to be a virtual event. Virtual event. All the cadets were going to be there. They were going to bring them in two weeks prior, have them quarantine. So they knew that all the cadets would be, you know, wouldn't be sick. So they brought us in and we hired the entire crew from the director on down. And all the people that we hired were super grateful because they haven't worked in, this is June, right? So like three months.

And the person that sits next to the director in the TV truck is called the technical director. A lot of directors want their person. You know, they travel with this person all the time. They're used to how the capons and work. They know what the technical director knows what the director wants. Yeah. So, you know, I was fighting with Patrick. I'm like, no, but my guys have been, you know, I haven't worked in three months.

He's like, I got to have my guy. Jamie, I got to have Jamie. I'm like, something in my brain and my gut said, you know what, don't put up a fight. Go with it. Yeah, yeah. How did that unfold for you? It's a great story because Jamie's become one of like my best friends. Yeah.

But also, like, I wouldn't have had the beginnings of my business without him. he's offered such technical, I mean, what he's offered me and through his technical knowledge and as a director himself has been, you know, huge for you. And so, but I think even before that, there was like a little spark of this whole virtual thing that that took place at your temple. Yes. So, like June, July, I was talking to the rabbi at my temple, who's also a. a good friend of mine, I'm like, man, we're not going to be able to do the services in September the way, you know, you normally done it. And he's like, what do you mean? And I said, you have to, like, live stream this. And I said, it's going to be completely different. And I said, if we're going to do

different, let's really do different. And he said, what do you mean? And I said, so you're pitching the rabbi. I'm pitching the rabbi. I love it. And we're doing gigs for God, pitching the rabbi. Gigs for God. I love this. So I said, we're going to have to do things different. I said, why don't you go out in the community? You can do some videos. I'll help you. And he had a drone and I shot him with a drone doing an opening of it. And so we did in the two different holidays, maybe 10 different live streams from the temple. It was just me, him and the canter and the person playing the organ. And we streamed to over like a thousand devices. Holy smokes. So I got to thinking, you know, there's got to be a way to monetize this.

Now, let me ask you something. I mean, I don't know how big the temple is, but would have a thousand people had come to? No way. Never, right? Because people were in Florida, people were here, you know, wherever they were. Yeah. Yeah.

They were going to, they were going to temple on their pajamas. Yeah, on their devices. They loved it. Yeah, yeah. What could be more convenient. And so, and so previous to that, like, you didn't know much about the live stream world. I mean, you're a camera on the shoulder.

Yeah. On the sports field. Watch out for the concussion kind of guy. Yeah. I'm in the middle. I'm in the thick of the action. And now you're doing this like virtual thing and you're like, what the hell? What do you mean?

You can do this from home? So where does a spark come where I could do this for bigger corporations? How does that land? So I got a call from a friend at the time and he's like telling me his company needs to do this project and where the interviewer can't leave her house. And we're going to interview nine different MLB players around the country. Okay. How does that go? And I'm like, we can do that.

And now, let me ask you, when you said, we can do that with a smile like this, did you know what you were going to do? No way. No way. What you took the gig? Yeah. I had an idea, but not to what it. Yeah.

Because it's way different than what you did at the temple. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Broadcasting one thing to, psh, versus like you have nine different players in probably nine different places. Yeah. Yeah. So how does that unfold?

You say yes, so then you try and figure it out. So Jamie and I together and a lot of Jamie, we devise these computer kits with cameras and microphones and Ethernet cables. And we call them our remote capture kits and we send them out to the people that are in our live streams. And all they need to do is turn the computer on and hook it up to the Internet. Got it. Does it come with instructions? It comes with instructions. We have a QR code that they just scan with their phone.

Perfect. Yeah. And in some cases we even send a tech out so they don't have to touch it. Got it. So if someone's a dummy like me and this case shows up with like gear and I don't know what to do, technician comes out, boom. Sets everything up. And we go over it with the technician prior to to make sure nothing got damaged in shipping.

And then they're there just in case something happens in the middle. And this kit's pretty robust. I mean, it comes with ring lights. It comes with a computer. It comes with like all the high speed stuff you need and you guys can log in remotely. Yep. And what did you say? Color correct or whatever. We can log in remotely once it's hooked up to the internet. And we can color crack the camera. We can zoom, focus.

So it almost seems like there's someone there with them. Yeah. Wow. And then we have, you know, the microphones hooked up. And then we have an IFB. What is that? So they can hear. Okay. Either like the IFB, like the newscast is rare or a headset.

And through a program on the computer, they can hear anyone else in this live stream that's going on or they can hear our director talk to them saying, you know, okay, five, four, three, you know, counting down. Brilliant. And so how did that first event go? It actually went pretty smooth. And we've had some of cups down the road along the way, but we've kind of perfected our workflow. Sure. And we use everything is done in a cloud. So, and we have, we've built in a lot of redundancy. So, and this has happened if I lose power in my house

because I'm technically in charge if I lose power in my house the other person could take control and since it's in the cloud it's the stream continues so no interruption there'll be an interruption in what you're doing but not necessarily the experience

of the people, viewers like me and so since then you've kind of created this new business and you're doing giant virtual shows yeah right so how does that look Why don't you explain what your new business model is

and how it looks and kind of profit margins versus having actual humans that you would send to places to film? Yeah, so we, Veridity Entertainment Services is our business. Varidity is, and this is a thing that Steve had done, one of the masterminds that I was here. He talked about when you're in the state of anger,

you're in the state of, you're in red, right? Yeah. When you get happy over something very quickly, you're in blue. If you're kind of even keeled, you're in the state of being green. So Jenny and my wife and I looked up different words for green because we didn't want it to be money related. And we came up with the word veridity, which is the state of being green. The state of being green. That's awesome. Because we're kind of even keel.

I like that. I like that you close that loop. Yeah. Yeah. So our live stream business was born. and, you know, we sent out these camera kits, and we do these big productions for our clients. I mean, some of the clients are pretty big. I mean, Capital One.

Capital One, T-Mobile, GCI, which is a health company, and we do these live shows for them. We did one show for T-Mobile. It was a home-run derby contest award show for Little League Baseballs and Little League softball players where we had 10 boys and a Major League Baseball player and then two nights later we had 10 girls and a professional softball player

and we had 10 of our 20 of our devices out, 10 at the boys and 10 at the girls and we're able to put a show together. That is awesome, man. That is bananas. And so now you've got this new business going and let's assume that as the world goes back to normal you'll continue to do the virtual events. It's just a no-brainer.

You'll, I mean, being your business coach, I kind of know this. They're like, hey, you can't speak for him. Well, I kind of can because we talked about what you're going to do. Right. So now you've got this new income stream that you're going to keep. You're going to bring back your course and your education course. You're going to go back to running your business actual, like, you know, on the sidelines, having camera operators.

And then you've got your payroll business that you do, which is again kind of outsourcing operators on a consistent basis at different places. So now you got these like four income streams. Did you ever think, like that guy who was whatever 30 years ago pitching himself, you know, as a freelancer and a feaster family, did you ever think that you would be where you are now as an Emmy Award winner, four income streams, multimillion dollar business, and you know, a multi-million dollar business, all from just having a camera on your shoulder? No, honestly, all I wanted was a paycheck and to get a bunch of replays in the show.

That's it. If I did a show and I got, you know, a bunch of replays because I had a good camera shot and the check cashed, I was happy. So was that kind of a thing amongst camera guys? Yeah, it's, because it's, if your shot's getting replays, then you're the badass. Yeah, and it's an ego, a bit of an ego thing, right? And I had a great relationship with the director that I worked with at NBC. And it's to the point where I'd be like, take 14 because that was my cat, seven or 14.

I don't know how I always about that. But I'd be like, and he'd like blindly take it because he knew that I wouldn't say that unless. You really had it. Unless I had the shot. God, it got his off. That was a relationship we had. Because over time you build a rapport and you got that relationship. And so, I mean, as we now we're May and May of 20.

2021, hopefully as the world opens up this summer and big live events, et cetera. But interestingly enough, you hadn't had a camera on your shoulder for some while, right? And, well, just a couple weeks ago was a Kentucky Derby. Yes. And because you're the man and everybody wants the man shooting, you found yourself at the Kentucky Derby. Still hurting. With a camera on your shoulder. How did that go?

Because I asked you, I'm like, oh, man, that must have been fun, huh? And you're like, no, I'm in pain. I have a appointment to get an epidural injection Wednesday. What happened, man? You know, I hadn't had a camera on my shoulders since September. Yeah. And I used to have a knot on my shoulder right here from the camera being there so often. And that was just like this callus that the camera sat on or something?

Yeah, and that's gone. Yeah. And you know, I got this fresh baby skin under there now that's weak. Exactly. And I was supposed to be literally flying from here to the preakness, but I literally was in so much the pain went like down to my foot. Holy crap, man. Yeah. Yeah.

So that kind of tells you something. I think that's a sign from the powers above to like, hey, exactly. Lush cameras on your shoulder and more calling shots as the entrepreneur, right? Exactly. That is awesome, man. That is great. If people want to connect with you, if they want to learn maybe how to operate a camera, they want to just maybe take your course or just learn more about the world that you're in,

where's the best place for people to connect with you. I'm on Instagram at Howie Zales, our website, Vibidity Entertainment.com. I'm glad you made it easy to spell. Veridity Entertainment.com. V-I-R-I-D-I-T-Y-E-E-E-E-R-I-E-E-E-Latertom. Gotcha. And, of course, you could always find Howie on Instagram at Howie Zales.

Yep, and LinkedIn as well. And LinkedIn as well. Howard Zales. Yeah, that is awesome. Hey, thanks for sharing all this, you know, this journey of 35 years because we have so many different levels of entrepreneurs who listen.

We've got the young startup entrepreneurs who are just kind of maybe doing that as a side hustle. And then we've got seasoned entrepreneurs who were making the Millies and then 2020 happens and they're like, man, I had to pivot and I love hearing how others have to pivot, how others had to reinvent. And so it was pretty neat, and I appreciate your vulnerability on this. If there was a lesson, one lesson before we leave, if there was one lesson that you could give the viewers and the listeners in terms of how to how to live their life as an entrepreneur or just how to live their life in general of someone

who consistently takes on these new adventures that you have taken on. What's that lesson? Go with your gut. Why? Go with your gut. Why? Because every time I do it, it's the right decision that led to me meeting you. It led to the success in my first business.

Every time I hired someone, because I was scared to let go of the control of the money, of the payroll of right, and every time I hired someone, it always, we always grew. Yeah. Right. And then last time I went with my gut feeling, I met Jamie and started my second big business. So go with your gut. Amen to that. I'm definitely a big believer in that.

Guys and gals, thank you for watching and listening to this episode. Remember to follow Howie at Instagram, Howie Sales. And, of course, when you're watching this and if you get value from watching this or listening to this, do us a favor. And leave us a five-star review on the old iTunes. and make sure to subscribe and follow us on YouTube. And of course, don't forget to tell your mama. We'll see you later.