Bedros Keuilian Podcast Show - Cindy Eckert: Women On Top - 125

Episode Date: November 19, 2019

Cindy isn’t in the tech industry, the fitness industry, or any industry that might seem normal to most people. Cindy is in the sexual medicine industry! Her unique business making "Female Viagra" brought her a billion dollar exit and now she's passionate about focusing on women's health and making a difference in people's lives. Cindy tells her story of how she was able to develop her purpose and take matters into her own hands. Listen to hear Cindy's amazing story and get inspired to make a difference!   “Success comes from having the courage to go for it.” “Get into sales and work your way up.” “I was on a path of learning.” - Cindy Eckert   Here’s what you’ll discover: 11:31 - How Cindy Eckert developed her purpose 13:22 - The cost of success 18:51 - Cindy’s transition into being an entrepreneur 26:26 - Be careful who you take money from 31:08 - Cindy sold her profitable company to pursue something risky 39:19 - The billion dollar exit   “Declare what you want.” “If I fail it’s on me, if I succeed it’s on me.”  - Bedros Keuilian   Follow us on Instagram: @bedroskeuilian / @cindypinkceo   Buy Man Up and get Bedros’s High Performance Leadership Course for FREE: https://manup.com/   Make sure to review us on iTunes: http://bit.ly/theempireshow   Youtube: https://youtu.be/7ATodCmCgso

What it's doing and women who respond to the drugs say like, oh, I had a fantasy. I can't remember the last time I just had a spontaneous fantasy. Welcome to another episode of The Empire Show. My name is Bedros Kulian and you're in for a special treat because this is an inside look into the life and business of another massively successful entrepreneur. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Cindy Eckert. Welcome. Hey, thanks for having me.

To the show. Yeah, great having you. Yes, thank you. Thank you. Now, you've actually exited out of two companies. I have. And they're not technology companies. They're not necessarily coaching companies.

They're not real estate. You're in a very weird, different, some people might... Complicated. Some people might even call it taboo. Space. Want to tell us what it is? Sex. Irish Catholic Girl.

That's got to be where I went. So I'm in the field of sexual medicine. Who knew that that was really a field? There's actually a sexual medicine society, of which I'm a card-carrying member, which makes me really popular at cocktail parties. I'm sure. I'm sure. You know, in truth, I'm in the health care arena, deeply passionate about women's health in particular, and have taken on subjects where everybody else has run away. Well, I'll tell you what, I'm very grateful, first of all, for having you here.

And the reason for that, Cindy, is because one thing I hear often is, Badois, you need more women on your show. Yeah. Guess who's the first to admit that? Me. The reality is there's a lot more male entrepreneurs. And so when we find awesome and amazing female entrepreneurs who are willing to come on the show and share with us or our annual event, the Empire Business Summit, who are willing to get up on stage and share, to me that's huge because, listen, I don't know a lot of male entrepreneurs who are beating their chest out there on social media doing a billion-dollar exit.

Thank you. Right? Yeah, that's right. So guys and gals, listen up. If you're watching this on YouTube or listening to this on the old iTunes there, just one of her exits was a billion dollar exit. So we've got a lot to learn here. So let's do the deep dive and get going.

A Catholic Irish girl turned. Of course I had to lead with that. My parents didn't have a great hook. Why are you doing that again? You hooked me. So just tell us about how you kind of started. You don't have to start where Catholic school or whatever, but you might want to start off on how do you even find this industry?

Well, I'll tell you, so I found the industry. because I've always loved what makes certain businesses more successful than others. And I think I was a student of that from a very young age. I had a business professor, undergrad, but as I was going through college, who I think really saw that in me. So she'd give me all these side projects, like I have to go read Fast Company or Inc or or whatever it may be. And in that process, I made a decision, I'm going to go work for Fortune's Most

Amher Company. That was it. Whoever it is, I'm going to go learn from the best. And at the time it happened to be Merck Pharmaceuticals. Like it could have been anyone. It could have been IBM. It could have been like, you know, back, whoever it could have been. So the intention wasn't in the industry.

The intention was to go learn from the best. And what happened I got there and I fell in love with what happened. I fell in love with the science and the real difference that you can make in people's lives. So this is interesting to me because I'm not a big believer that someone's path is pre-destined. Yeah. I'm a believer that you control your own path. Sure. there's carmic debt to be paid if you're an asshole in society, et cetera.

Like, you get to decide how your life unfolds. Right. Am I hearing you say that had the top company been in the technology space, that you might have gone that way? Absolutely. And it seems like you're a very creative person. You're designed to solve problems. I can tell that already about you.

You would have found a problem. Like, you could have been at Apple, and we would have had a different iPhone right now. Could be. Right? Hi, Steve. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that, yeah.

I think it was, it's, and I'll tell you, I think about that. I've thought a lot about, because now I'm asked, like, what is it? And you don't, you sort of go through it, and I don't know that I was quite so reflective. I was just jumping toward things that really pushed me, and I was inherently very curious. And I think that was cultivated from a very unusual upbringing, that now in hindsight, I realize was sort of wiring those traits in. So I started from upstate New York, like total blue collar town. Where? What part of... Rochester.

Rochester. Really cold. Like, the kid bundled up at the bus stop. And my dad came home one day and he said, hey, do you want to go to Fiji? Now, I want everybody to know this is before, like, Fiji water and fancy resorts. Like, nobody know what Fiji was. How old were you at the time?

I was in the fourth grade. So nine years old. Okay. And I can remember, like, I went to the globe in the living room, was looking for Fiji, never heard other side of the world, came in and was like, that'd be fun. And he goes great because we're moving there. And I moved from Rochester, New York to the Fiji Islands when I was nine years old, and

you want to talk about major shock. Holy smokes. And a totally different eye-opening experience. I went from there, and every year from the fourth grade through my senior year of high school I moved, which started to not only expose me to totally different perspectives all the time, helping my ability to adapt, but I think it got me really comfortable with uncomfortable. I think that's why I've taken on things that other people have run away from.

Was this a job move for your dad? Total adventurer, but yes. So he is, you know, it was professional. I mean, that's a big move. Yeah, no doubt. State Department, went to the Fiji Islands, like, just fascinating. And so good for me. Fiji didn't have television until the 1990s.

So just imagine, I'm a little girl. I come back to the U.S. I haven't seen TV for like two and a half years on the complete misfit. Sure. It dropped on the island and then, plucked back. And that was my next question. So it was a two and a half year stay there. Two and a half a year sent there, yeah. So just as you're probably acclimating, oh yeah, getting like known, making friends,

sure. Hey, now we're going back to Rochester? Yes, yeah. Really? We moved back to Rochester, then moved to D.C., moved to Italy, like we bounced all over the place. Yeah, so here's something interesting about upstate New York that I know. Does the Buffalo count as upstate New York? Okay, all right, so here are... I went to Bill's games and I was little. Okay, so I'm originally from the Soviet Union, Armenia, six years old when we escaped and came here, decided that I want to lift weights and get big because I was tired of being a fat kid. I'll tell you why this is all important. I started off as a personal trainer in this LA fitness in Huntington Beach, California, probably 21, 22 years old.

And I meet this guy, and it was the first time I'd heard a kind of an upstate New York accent, which is different than like Manhattan, New York accent. Of course. Yeah. And I meet, and he was just such a jacked big guy. And I was like, holy smokes. His name is Michelangelo Botticelli. That's great.

He was my neighbor. I'm sure. I'm sure. And, you know, we meet. And I'm like, holy cow, do you look at all the muscles you have? And I'm a personal trainer here. He goes, well, so am I, because he was working out. So he didn't have the personal trainer polo shirt on.

But anyway, so we hit it off. And the first joke he told me, because he was just always cracking jokes. He goes, he was Pedro. There's a time change between here in California and Buffalo, New York. And I was like, you know, in my head, I'm, yeah, New York. three hours. He goes, do you want to know what? And he looked at his watch and he goes, it's 1130 here and it's 1987 in Buffalo. And that's, that's all I knew about Buffalo, New York. And he would tell me how everything's just kind of old and archaic and people are just working in factories.

Interestingly enough, the wife and I took the kids to, what's that big? The waterfalls there. Niagara Falls. Yeah, sure. Niagara Falls. And we went through Buffalo. I mean, it was a couple years ago. Yeah. Beautiful place. But anyway, so that's the only connection I had for so many years when people would say upstate New York and I would just think like it's 1987 So funny. Yeah, so that was the time change. Truly, like the town that I was in was like your parents worked in the factory and it you know went from being this incredible bastion of technology once upon a time to a really depressed economy But such a great like and beautiful part of the country never mind like you grew up and you knew like every family on the street and it had that sort of small town, you know wonderful foundation in childhood.

So you've got this professor who sees something in you. Yeah. And she starts kind of giving you this additional tasks. Yeah. Read this. It just felt like extra work at the time, but now I know what her master, like her master plan was. Do you happen to keep in touch with her? She's passed away. Oh, yeah.

I'm so sad because I love for her to see the work that I do today in the pink ceiling and other female entrepreneurs and getting them there. It's funny how you have those people are such instrumental. you know. So I recently, two weeks ago, I interviewed my mentor, Jim Franco. He's 76 years old now. And I had modeled, so I was his personal trainer. And so when you're working with a personal trainer in between sets while he's resting, I would ask questions because I would see that he was well to do. And so he mentored me throughout the years. He loaned me money for my first little personal training studio that I opened. And today, ironically, like my company makes a lot more than his. And he's one of the

handful of guys that I know who's not jealous. He's like, just so proud of me. And so it was so neat. And I talked about them in my book and on the podcast. So it was neat to have Jim here. And we took a walk down memory. Lance, I was just wondering if your professor, man, imagine how proud she would be, right?

Yeah. Yeah. So she kind of says, hey, you know, do this and read that. And you decide you make the decision that I'm going to work for one of the top companies at the time, which was Merck Pharmaceutical. Yes. And you get in there and you do what kind of work? Sales.

Sales. Why sales? Are you good at it? Or that's what you do? That's where you start. That's where you start. So that was like getting to sales and work your way up. And I'd say that to everyone that I mentor today, right? Like if you want to do something, go sell something. Can I ask you a question real quick? We're going to deviate, but the audience knows where I'm going with this and you'll see in a moment. Are you living your purpose right now? Yes. You are? Yes. Like you didn't even hesitate. You said yes. Great. When you got into Merck, was there a little bit of doubt and trepidation? Like I don't know if I believe. along here, if I'm going to be good in sales.

Always. There was, right? Yeah, of course. But you did it anyway. I still have that every day. Like, when I started something new, right? A little bit of doubt, a little bit of trepidation. Yeah.

Like, I don't, I think if you actually woke up tomorrow and thought you knew everything, it would be the most boring day in the world, right? Life is not supposed to be predictable. Absolutely not. Here's why. Everywhere I go and speak, or after almost every podcast, we'll get 10 or 15 messages on this one thing. Yeah. But Baitros, I don't know how to find my purpose.

Right. And I always tell them, it's not lost. It's something that you're going to find. It's something you're going to develop. That's right. Here you were. You just made the decisions that. I'm going to go find whatever.

It was a Fortune 100 company, the top company, and worked there. And you did. Clearly had no sales background coming out of college. But that's where everybody starts at Merck. And that's where you started. And I asked you, are you living your purpose? You said yes, because in that time you developed your purpose versus spending a decade or two like most people do, wandering around looking for their purpose like it's lost.

I got to tell you, so my thought of that, and I get that all the time from people as well, like they look and they go, well, it seems so obvious to you. It absolutely was not obvious to me. The only thing that was obvious to me was that I was on a path of learning, and I wanted to learn from the best. And learning from the best inform the next step or the next step. And I think that, you know, if the ultimate destination is success, however you may define that, success doesn't come from having all the answers up front. you will never have that. It comes from having the courage to go for it.

And again, I think that's the difference is we wait. And if you wait in anticipation of the perfect plan or this lightning strikes from somewhere, you're going to be sitting on the sidelines your whole life. So much truth to that. So you start off in sales then. Yes. How long before you make that next move within Merck? Four years. Four years. And my move was out of Mark. Oh, really? Yeah. So it was sales the whole time? Sales the whole time. And I, the aha moment in there was I love this industry for what it could do.

I didn't necessarily love how they got it done. And in that sense, it was just like, I didn't fit in big. Nobody was listening to me. I have two big brothers. They will tell you, that is a problem if nobody's going to listen to my idea. Are you the baby of the family? I am. You are.

And I was like, I'm going somewhere where I'm going to be heard. Never mind. I'm going to go somewhere where I have skin. in the game. So I have a big brother at the time. He's in a dot-com startup. I'm watching what he's doing. He's constantly pushed to try new things.

What year are we in now? We're in, what year are we in right now, early 90s. Okay. So, and it's right there in that boom, and they're going to IPO. And he's telling me like, I'm like, what does that mean, right? Like you're going to go public. And there was a friends and family round where I could invest. Well, I had no money.

So I ate rice every day, like for a year. a buck a day and I would like put everything aside and like this tiny little bit I could I invested when they went out I made money and I was like buy by by corporate that's what I'm going to do I'm going to go to startups I'm going to have skin in the game for the value that I create so I went from Merck to a very small sort of innovative company and chased innovation from that point forward till I started it for my own but you invested money that you saved up for how long about a year about a year eating rice yeah yeah right right I mean, you found the cheapest food because we watch Survivor.

My family and I watch Survivor, and everyone gets about eight ounces of rice once a week, and that's it because it's cheap and you could live off of it. Yeah, for sure. So, guys, I want to, again, I'm highlighting the points here for you because I want you to see the cost of success. And the cost of success is you do whatever you need to, eat rice for a year and quit a sales job where you were probably making good commission. Were we close to six figures maybe in commission? Yeah. Right? And so in that time, hey, not bad at all.

Oh, no, I thought, my name is living large. I had a car allowance. I was like, whoa. Right? You know, and I was young, absolutely. But still, there's something bigger I was doing. So you make the sacrifice by saying, I'm going to save every penny I can. I'm going to eat rice for a whole year.

You take the risk by quitting a secure job. Merck's still around. They weren't going anywhere. No, absolutely not. And you go, I'm going to take this risk where my big brother is. And he says we're doing this friends and family round. And most IPOs tank. Right, for sure.

So it's not like the odds were in your favor. Yeah, that's right. No question. Yeah. But it was the go for it, right? You've got to go for it. And when I went from Merck, I went to this other, this small company, and I can remember the first day I got on the job, Merck was having a big meeting.

You know, they put on these incredible, like, lavish meetings. All the salespeople were there. And I'm sitting out in California at this small startup, and I'm looking around and all my friends are calling me like, where'd you go? Because they felt like, you know, they were the elitist. They were in the best company. And I did have this moment like, what did I do? And the truth is I showed up the next day, they were my kind of people,

and I knew I had found the right home in a smaller environment, and I never looked back. It was best thing to ever. Good for you. So it's an environment of innovation. Yes. One thing you know about yourself from the get-go is your innovative person. I'm guessing you just organically look at things, and how can I make it better, different?

What's missing? Is there a vacuum to be filled? I think I'm just a builder. Like, I want to find, to roll up my sleeves and do that, and I'm a learner. Like, I want to be pushed. I'm competitive, like, go make me play against my personal best. I've never done that before I want to try it. So I think that's really what was happening to the smaller environment.

So how long do you last there in that small technology company? So I lasted there for a few years, and then I made a move where they actually got bought. Actually, my sort of career-defining moment there, they were acquired, this company, and then they put all these different companies together, and I got to be part of the integration team that decided, like these are the products we're going to keep, these are the products we're going to get rid of, and it was like the lesson of how do you build it from scratch. So I got that, and then once I did that, I'm like,

I can do that for myself now. Okay, I'm going to stop you there again. You just keep coming up with more lessons, and so we have to highlight every lesson you come up with. You kind of brushed over, and I got to be part of this team, this integration team. I'm guessing there was a lot of people they could have chose from. Sure. But you were chosen.

Sure. And I've got a big company upstairs. We've got a lot of people. Sure. There's only a small handful that I look at who can be integrators and actually move the needle. The rest are just kind of worker ants who unfortunately, because of their doing, could be replaced simply. And there are others who simply cannot or would cost us a lot to replace them. You were one of those people.

What made you stand out to the person who decided, as things are merging, that we're going to select you as to be on this integration team? No question the commitment, right, to be part of it. and the constant raising of my hand. Like, I'm the one who's going, pick me, I'll do it, I'll try it, give it to me. Extra work, sure, got it. And I think that's really it is asking for it. I can remember my first day in sales, and I talk to kids that graduate about this today. They're like, what do you do?

You know, I think when you come out of school, you've probably never been in a corporate environment, and you go in and you sort of sit quietly and watch. Like, you're just learning it. And as opposed to doing that, the first day I walked in and I said, I want to be number one. Will you help me be number one? Tell me what I need to do. I didn't know what I needed to do.

It's my first day. But I think declaring it is really what always got me the opportunity. Like that was what I wanted to do. When I said that's what I wanted to do, well, then people would help me get there. Sure. You had another great lesson. Declare what you want. Declar it out loud.

People around you are willing to help. That's right. Number two, you constantly took the risk and raised your hand. You got off the bleachers and got on the field. For sure. How many people right now, no matter where you're at, If you're at a Starbucks and you're listening to this, or you're mid-level management, your C-level management, you want to get to upper leadership, you're sitting on the sidelines

watching instead of raising your hand, volunteering because you're afraid to have the spotlight on you, but get on the fucking field and play, folks. That's right. Good for you. Wow, I'm so excited. Okay, let's keep going. So there you are. At some point, you end up thinking that maybe I'm just meant to be an entrepreneur.

Yes. So you're integrating companies and together, but at some point something clicks. Well, you know what? I was going through this path. I was learning and I thought, and I was very privileged. Like I was around really smart people, hardworking people. But then you get to a point and you go, well, they're not smarter than I am. And I'll work equally as hard, if not harder than them.

So what hell am I not doing it for myself? And that was really the moment, right? It's enough exposure to say, I got this. And like if I make a mess, my own damn mess, I've got to go clean it up. Sure. But there is a pride in doing that, and that was the ultimate leap. I call my first company Slate. And it was truly clean slate.

I'm doing it on my own terms. Here what the principals are. Is that why you named Slate? It is. It is. Totally. Clean Slate. My terms.

If I fail, it's on me? If I succeed, it's on me. Absolutely. I love that. Absolutely. And that was such a, that was so fun. Like, of course, I had to have, like, you know, principles on a paper towel. It has to be a napkin or a paper towel, right?

If you're a founder. and it was the hypothesis that there are a lot of other people like me who've been successful in these environments, but they're uninspired. They're not really completely controlling their own destiny. Sure, I had equity, that mattered, but really was I running it. And I was in environments that were getting increasingly bigger, and once you do that, you homogenize, say, this is our way, do it by this process. And yes, there have to be some processes for companies to function.

But the risk is do you beat the individuality out of people that make you remarkably successful? So I'll challenge that. How do you write that fine line as a CEO? For me? Yeah. It's really honest to God, like one of the choices that we make culturally is we choose to be quirky. And like that sounds so ridiculous, right? Like if I hire you, choose to be quirky.

Sure. But what I'm really saying is be you. And I'm giving you permission to come to the table with your ideas. And yes, we have certain standards, but we have like a flexibility to, I think, hear those points of view, knowing that that's really our secret weapon is all the individuality of thought. And we are irreverent as hell, in a constructive way, behind closed doors, but we walk out locked arms against the world. And I think that's been really the secret. Powerful statement.

We walk out locked arms against the world. That is a secret that you have a vision so clear, a mission so specific, core values that everyone believes in, that you will lock arms, even if you had, you went to, got in disagreements behind closed doors. Oh, yeah, we do every day. Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure. So at some point, you're like, okay, the clean slate and slate was produced.

What was Slate going to be? So Slate had the only FDA-approved long-acting testosterone for men. So we had this unique product. We were the one of its kind, not that there wasn't a very competitive landscape, but different modalities. Prescription or with the counter? Prescription. Prescription.

And what it was going to be was this hypothesis of like getting together all of these highly successful people, uninspired in their current environment, giving them permission and let's see what we can do. And in four years, we built the second most prescribed brand among specialists. In four years. Four years. And the other company that was out there that beat us had been out for like, you know, it was the market leader, had been out for 20 years.

It was a rocket ship right. Now I want you to know that rocket ship did not. go like this. All right, everyone's picturing that. Until it went like this. Was there a couple times where it was nose down and you thought it's going to fucking crash and burn? I'll tell you, the worst is I got to a place and I really didn't have enough money to grow

my salespeople. Like the top tier of physicians in this world loved it. And they were at every medical conference talking about it. And my phone kept ringing with people saying, why haven't you sent a salesperson by? And I'm like, because I don't have one. I don't have one in that area. So I needed capital. to build out the sales force.

And I got money from the wrong person. And it was brutal. Like it was a year of the company is going to go under. The ink was not even dry on the contract before our philosophies went this way. They had a very different philosophy on how they treated people, how they compensated people,

incentivized them, and it was just the cultural mismatch nightmare. And I had to live with it for a year because I had a contract. Mama Mia. Cindy, we're going to dive deep into that because you really piqued my interest. One thing I talk about on here, that it's pretty rare that you and a business partner are going to work out. Like there's a better chance of you and a spouse working out, even with a 50% divorce rate.

And I still believe of that half that stay together, half of them want out. They just don't have the courage to get out. Where business partners are concerned, like it's the kiss of death. Having said that, I've got one business partner in one of my companies. And everyone goes, well, what about Craig? He's a unique unicorn. He'd probably say the same about me. So that said, do you mind if we dive deep into this?

So you're like, holy hell, the company's growing. It started in 2007, right? The four-year sprint of growth was until 2011 when you sold. That's right. But now you're in this phase of everybody wants my product. Yes. I don't have enough sales reps to go all these doctors. That's right.

I need to borrow money. Yes. Instead of going to a bank or private equity, you went to an individual. Is that what I'm hearing? It was a company who was going to build a sales force around it. Got it. Yes. I was going to get to control.

the marketing, the education of them, and everything else, but they were actually putting the capital up front of it. And would they get equity in the company? They had a seat on my board and equity. They had a seat. Guys, listen to this. They took equity and they had a seat on the board and they injected capital money into your business to grow.

And then they created Salesforce who had all the wrong incentives. They treated terribly. I love salespeople. I started as a salesperson. Like if no one's selling anything, there's no business. And that's got to be the core of it, and that really just wasn't their heart. And it was just such a painful year for me, but I waited.

And the minute I could break the contract, I had eight salespeople when we started. Like that was all I could afford. Sure. My eight people were selling their 50, four to one. Oh, wow. Four to one. And they had 50. They had 50.

Four to one ratio. Obviously, your eight are incentivized. They believe in the leader. That's right. Just totally different. And so the minute I could cut the contract, I, like, did a massive fax, doctors offices still use faxes, faxed to, like every prescriber in the country and said, we're it, if you have any questions, call us, and I just started to build.

And I got somebody to come in and buy them out, but boy, that was painful. I was going to say, there's always a cost to an action. What was the cost of this parting of ways? Oh. Because we know what the cost was when you started the partnership, like headaches, like, oh, my God, the sales numbers are falling. Sure. Well, the cost was paying. I bought them back out. This is my kind of fun. So bought them back. I had to buy them back out exactly what they put in. If had they stayed in, they would have made 40x their money. Yo.

So I like to, I always think about putting a billboard in their town like, hi, thanks. Remember me? From the investor who came in and really saved my ass. But, you know, that moment of trying to find them was really, that was terrifying. because the business was going to go under. Sure. Wow. They were wrapping me up with legal bills.

Oh, I'm sure. Trying to choke the life out of you in this. For sure. All right. So at some point, you know, 2009, 10, 11. Can I tell a lesson there? Please. This is a lesson for entrepreneurs in that. I think when you're in that moment and you really need that capital to scale,

you cannot forget that you're choosing to. And we forget it. Explain that further. You are picking. this is going to be a marriage, they are going to have a say. You better be really thoughtful, and we approach it like, oh, please, please, write me a check. Please, please write me a check.

And actually, you should be thinking, like, do I want to take your check? Because here's who I am, and I want to make sure that fits. What a completely different way to look at it. Because when we're broke, we're desperate. We're desperate. Yeah, right? And it's easy to find someone to give a shelter, but then to be abusive. Kind of aligning it to a relationship because it might be easier for more people at

picture when in reality, be careful if you were picking. No question. You're making that decision. That's a great lesson, powerful lesson. So, you know, the testosterone, is it a cream? I'm imagine it's a cream or injectable? No, it was a pellet. A pellet.

It goes just under the surface of the skin delivers levels for three to four months. Like under the butt? Yeah, in the hip. Oh, ash over there behind the camera would love that. Look, I had two big brothers. Like, we could go to the beach. Primo's not here. Even, like, rub sun-tent.

So the cream, like, creams and gels were the market leader. And like, I grew up with two big brothers. Like, they would never, like, even put sun tan lotion on. Sure, let alone, yeah. And I'm like, wait a minute. So this is a product where they can show up a few times a year, set it and forget it. This product was paid for men. The whole Ron Popil said it and forget it.

I like that. She's a close there. All right. And for the record, guys, Primo's not here. He's in New York eating at the Farest Pizza, one of our videographers. I always pick on Busta's balls. So in his absence, Ash, the Irish must pick up, must pick up the slack. So that said, all right, so the pellet, the doctors are prescribing this.

What kind of numbers in sales in revenue are we talking about? Hundreds of millions. Hundreds of millions in sales. And are you just like, mamma Mia, this is a rocket ship and I'm barely holding on, or do like, I got this. I'm buckled in, I'm good. I think I was having so much fun when I got out of the period of pain. And so here was my next ridiculous and radical move.

I'm riding the rocket ship. We're doing great. And I get a beat on this science for women. And I'm looking around, and my product was one of 26 FDA-approved drugs for men for male sexual issues. There's not a single one for women, not one, despite the fact that we had the science. And like I told you, I was at the Sexual Medicine Society meeting. So I'm watching all of this research. Did you see me there?

And I went out, and I went to my board, and I said, we need to sell this company off because I'm going to take that on. And they were like, what? But wait, like the company is doing so great. Are you kidding? Wait, how quickly was that decision made? Like, literally, you went to this meeting, you came back and you're like, hey, this is what we're doing? So I went to the meeting where the company that had innovated the science was going to walk away from it. Why?

Not on the basis of science, on the basis of a societal narrative, which was so clear to me. The path was going to be longer. The hurdle was going to be higher. When you talk about women in sex, people can lose their mind. But holes puckered. Lose their mind. And I thought, this is ridiculous. Like, I'm actually looking at brain scan imaging

that shows that for 10% of women, something goes off in terms of the balance we need to respond to sexual cues. It's black and white. And yet, what are we doing for women? We're saying, oh, have a bubble bath. Go on vacation. So dismissive when we know there's a biological basis.

26 times we said men have the right to have a choice. We readily accept that it could be biology, but we're dismissing that for women. It made no sense. What do you think that is? Oh, I think that's just, I really do think that if something goes wrong for a guy,

we think biology. If something goes wrong from women, we're like, oh, psychology. And the reality is we're actually doing a disservice to both of us because, you know, we're complicated human beings. We bring all of those things into the bedroom with us. The injustice here was

when something was going wrong biologically for women, we were patting her on the shoulder. Hmm. There you go. That'll make you feel bad. That is not right. And I spent a year listening to women. Inside of my company, Slate, I spent a year, I talked to women who were struggling with this. I was lucky that they shared their most personal stories with me. And I thought, by God, like if I'm listening to them, then so too is everybody else going to. Like, we're making a value judgment on whether or not they deserve to have this. And that makes no sense.

And so I made a radical decision sold off my profitable business and men to take this on. So you sold off scale. Yeah. And you took on what was going to be called. Slate and Sprout. I literally, like, I literally got the asset in under Slate. I sprouted out of Slate one day before I sold it, went back to work on Sprout the next day. You are nuts.

You are nuts. I love this. I love to work. Hey, by the way, if you ever think like you're weird, you're strange, you're nuts, you're unreasonable in your expectations, there are plenty of us. around, you just have to find us. Because I think I'm weird. I think I'm nuts. I'm unreasonable in my expectation.

I'll create four other businesses and find the capital, create the capital. Good for you. So did you buy the signs from this company, these people who didn't want to really do anything with it? So remarkably, I went over, they were a German company, and I think because the reputation I built in this field, I'm a little bit on pharma.

We looked a little different, how we showed up, the way I cared about this issue, that a lot of the biggest researchers in the world, vouch for me. They said if anyone can do it, she'll do it. And they gave it to me. Good for you. And they gave it to me with a promise of payoff. It's got to be win-win. So if I got it done, they got a piece of it. So they had a royalty basically on the sales, ultimately. And I think honestly they were like, sure. Good luck. She's never going to get it done. So this is around 2011, 2012? That was 2011. What is the first step when someone's going to take

science and make it into a prescription? Yeah. I'm guessing this one's a pill. It's something. It's not a pellet. It's a daily pill. That you take orally. Absolutely. Little pink pill. Okay. And by the way, explain to me how it works.

What does it do to me or if I was a woman? Yeah. So, you know, desire is in the brain and we need this balance. So when we have sex, we're actually quite animalistic. We sort of shut the brain down to enjoy the moment. And for, again, a good number of women, something goes off kilter in that. And like, these are the women that say, I'm lying in bed and I'm just still doing my to-do list. doing my to-do list. And I'm thinking about they don't actually shut down the part of their

brain. What percentage of women is that? 10% reported, and I'm going to tell you, I think it's much higher than that. Okay, I was going to ask you, that's, 10% report it's. Anecdotally, you think it's higher. I do. But by all the studies, I mean, I think at 10%, it's huge. This issue for women has the same incidence as ED does for men. Sure. Think about that. That's a $6 billion global category, and we are just getting started talking about this for women. Wow. So. Yeah.

So what do I do? I take it on. So it works on dopamine and serotonin. Okay. So excitement and inhibition. And it works on those two kind of key chemicals in that balance for sexual cues. But in what way? Does it accelerate or give you more dopamine hit?

So positive on dopamine, so positive for excitement. And then this transient negative on serotonin, which is what inhibits you. Think about how many people are on antidepressants or anti-anxiety meds. What's the number one side effect? It kills your sex. sex drive. And it's because of the way that it's working, it's actually causing more inhibition. So this has the opposite.

It's totally safe to use with those products. We did those studies, but it has a very different pro-sexual effect. And would, like, you know, Viagra, you're supposed to take an hour or so or two before, anecdotally, I've heard Ash, that you're supposed to take before, like you can't take it that morning or I suppose you can have sex at night. Do you take this before sex? You take it daily. Daily.

So it's like multivitamins. You just pop it daily. You take it daily. Mm-hmm. And you're really just, again, like you're resetting to that level. And as women take it, like, it's actually a dis, it's sort of a misnomer that it's called female Viagra by the media because it doesn't work any way the same. Right.

And I think it sets up an expectation that's totally wrong for women in terms of desire isn't on demand. And in fact, like, what it's doing and women who respond to the drugs say, like, oh, I had a fantasy. I haven't, I can't remember the last time I just had a spontaneous fan. And it's some of those things that remind us we are wired biologically to have drive and want sex. And that's what has sort of gone dormant for them. That's fascinating. And so I'm just going to ask because I'm curious, and if I'm curious, I know the audience is always curious,

if we're pumping out dopamine. Yeah. Is this work, are those receptor sites getting desensitized over time? Like if I take Adderall every day, I'm going to have to take more atterol. Yeah. got the ADD issue, right? So as a kid, they gave me rid of lind, then they switch Mount Adderall.

Sure. So, you know, we've done all sorts of studies. What happens if you go off, do the symptoms come back? Like all of those are looking at it, what is the optimal dose? It's one dose, it's 100 milligrams a day. And I think the reality of this is I think women will come on and off of it, depending on sort of life status, relationship status, and they will withdraw back to symptoms if they come off of it.

Yeah, I hope that answered your question. It does. I will say one thing. I knew what I was thinking. I just like to be fully transparent, which is why I'm asking. One of the things that I'm really proud of is that we studied this medication in 13,000 women. I'm going to give you context. The average new drug approval in the United States is 760 patients.

We studied this in 13,000. If you compared it to the parallel of Viagra, the blue pill versus the pink pill, we had three times as many patients' worth of data. And here's where the story got twisted. So Viagra was deemed as having met such an important unmet medical need. It got fast-tracked for approval back in 1998. It went through the FDA in six months so that men could have it. What's how long it took me? Oh, shoot.

Good to ask. Two years? Six years. Holy smokes. Six years, three times as many patients' worth of data. You cannot tell me that we don't have a double standard in medicine. There's an absolute double standard. And a double standard in terms of how much we think sex matters, if you will, to men.

versus women. That double standard, and I'm just going to kind of go off for a moment, that double standard, blue versus pink, let's just call it that, shows up at the workplace. It does. Shows up in many places, not just at the FDA with drug approval. How do you feel about that? As someone who's like dominated in business and you do it on your terms. Yeah. There's a reason I wear pink all the time. And pink for me, I like pink. I've always liked pink. and pink, for me, represents the shift from underestimated to unapologetic. And I think you've got to own who you are.

I talk to female founders about this all the time, and actually along the way, in a totally male-dominated industry, taking on these crazy taboo. Can you imagine me the first time I went in front of a room full of blue and gray suits to pitch this in my blazing hot pink and talk about female Viagra? You know what? I actually anticipated being underestimated. And once I got to a place where I'm like, this is going to happen, it became this invitation to surprise people.

I was no longer frustrated or like swirling in self-doubt because they weren't so sure when I walked in the room. You knew that was going to happen. I was having so much fun once I was killing them with confidence. Good for you. Good for you. All right. So if it takes six years, I'm doing the math. I mean, this, talking about skyrocketing, this thing was a, I think, maybe a faster rocket ship than Slate.

Slate, about the same timeline. So the German company had eaten up a little bit of that. When I got the product, I sat down with the FDA. That's what you do. You get a new product. You say, okay, like, what do I need to do? These are double blind. Is it a full-on bullshit process going through the FDA?

Can you say that, or were they, like, take it off the market? Yeah, I think they probably wouldn't be happy. This is what I think in terms of the process. It's slow. It's bureaucratic, of course, because it's government. And I think the real risk we have is that we all want. We don't want the FDA to protect public safety. We want them if there are absolute watchouts to say no.

But we don't want them to make judgments about whether or not patients can have it. It is absolutely my responsibility to inform the benefits and the risks, but then I believe it is our responsibility once those are characterized to turn the decision over to patients and providers. Copy that. So how do you exit out of this company? How does that exit come about? I mean, I'm guessing they're just knocking on your door and saying, hey, we

want to buy you out? Oh God, nobody thought I was going to do it. So first I get turned down by the FDA, then I have to fight them, which by the way I call that the road less travel to take on the government, but I had 13,000 women worth the data. Then they hold this big public meeting and they get doctors to weigh in on our data whether or not they would approve it and they voted overwhelmingly yes to approve it. Good for you. And when they did, they made that recommendation of the FDA but I wasn't yet approved. All of a sudden all the big companies were like, oh my God, she's going to do it. And so this is suitors started coming to the doorstep.

Okay. And so we had three suitors, one, one, and two days after we got the official approval of the drug, we announced that we sold the company for a billion dollars up front. Billion dollars up front. Up front. How did you feel in that moment? Because I'm guessing the slate exit wasn't a billion, or was it? Maybe, I don't know.

About that. You're a badass, so maybe it was... About half, yeah. Okay. So that one was fun with a royalty stream on that, too. So that one came and went. Like, nobody knew as a private company, never talked about it. But I got to tell you, when it's female Viagra and you take on the government, nightline

comes to your doorstep. And then we sold it for a billion dollars. It became a huge, the day we were approved, we were the biggest news story in the world. And here's this little company in Raleigh, North Carolina. I had 35 people working for me. And part of my goal was how do I create the most value per person in this organization? And it was, the truth is, in that moment, I felt. like I had done right by all the women who were counting on me.

Sure. That I hadn't given up because there were plenty of moments along the way when I would have liked to pull the covers over my head and give up. And I would go back to my inbox and I would read the letter from a woman who wrote me and said, thank you for letting me know I'm not alone. Thank you for taking this on. Wow. Those reminders and affirmations to keep fighting.

For sure. You got a greater cause. Mm-hmm. Greater cause. And then I just went to work the next day. Again. I had more zeros in my bank account, but like I still showed up for work. I tease that I have a guy that I work with manages my money, and he showed up for a meeting

with me not that long ago, and he said, okay, so you drive the same car, you live in the same house, and he looked at me, and he's like, and I'm pretty sure you were wearing that the last time I saw you, so our meeting is done. You know, money doesn't change at the core who you are. I hope not. And I think that it just becomes this conduit to do real good. I mean, that was the fun of that moment, is the choice now of what was I going to do with it. So I always say that money is a vehicle to freedom and money is a vehicle to impact.

So where freedom is concerned, Slate was probably the vehicle to freedom that you've gotten, right? And then how have you done good? How have you had impact? So I started the pink ceiling after my exit from Sprout, and the pink ceiling is all about, reaching my hand back and getting other women there faster than I got there myself. My mission, really simple, I'm going to make women really fucking rich. Good for you. And I say it unapologetically, because I know when I get them there, they're going to not

only get to invest in the things they want to see in this world, but they're going to help other women get there. And look, like head down, building these businesses a decade, I look up and actually the situation hasn't improved in terms of access to capital. Two percent of all venture capital goes to female founders. You can't look at that number and not know there's something wrong with that equation. And there's really a lack of access to mentors. This shouldn't be a lonely club for women who've gotten to billion-dollar exits.

And so I'm working my hardest to get other women there. And that's what the pink ceiling does. Yep, and the pink-ubator. I have a pink-ubator. Pink-u-bator. How cute is that? I like that. And what is women on top right there on your shirt?

Women on top is what I'm all about. And it is absolutely in both ways, not only from an adi female Viagra person. perspective, but also, you know, just about like that real work to put women on top and that they have this right to desire being in the C-suite, C-suite, running their own business, whatever it is, and helping them really put power in their hands to go do it. So let's go back to pink ceiling real quick. How does that, is it a mentorship, advice? How does that work? So it's my money where my mouth is. So I make early bets on women. I give them money, and they get

access to my business team to help get them to launch. And we pick pretty deliberately, like those things that we think we can really move the needle. And we're picking things that are not only like breakthrough firsts, but I think they're often catalyst and important conversations we need to have. When it's a taboo, I run in. I've got at this point, like I've taken on sex and I'm now taking on money. So all I got next is politics. Amen to that.

But I may stay away from it. We'll be rooting on you. Here we go. So we're one of the few. Maybe if not the only show that I know that talks about business and entrepreneurship, where we have almost a 50-50 split of male and female listeners. Awesome. And I love that.

And because of that, I know, I can almost even think of the names because, you know, they DM me. I know women are going to be reaching out to and going, hey, what about my company? So why don't you give us a company or two or three that you've invested in? You don't have to maybe say their names if you don't want to. Yeah, no, happy to. But what does that ideal company look like, that ideal female entrepreneur look like that you're willing to invest in and put your arms around? Yeah. Well, look, I'll tell you, if it's the next cupcake shop, don't come to.

the pinkiebator. And I don't mean that to take away. If you want to go start a business, I am cheering you on. Women are starting more businesses than men these days. But we really do kind of stick to this. The people who are overlooked by the system that are going to need large infusions of cash, so we've got a flushable pregnancy test coming out by the end of the year. I think only a woman would have thought of it. It's awesome. It's biodegradable. Why should 80% of a pregnancy test be plastic? It's crazy. Never mind the discretion conversation. We have a great woman. That's called Leah Diagnostics.

I have two women that developed a technology called Fathom. It's artificial intelligence. You wear a tiny little almost sticker in the depression of your ankle. It starts to learn how you train. When you start to deviate in movement, it signals you that you may be on the path to injury. And she is like a college scholarship athlete who injured, and it ruined her potential professional career. She's solving the problem. She's all the problem for her younger self.

She's incredible. That has just come onto the market. So we look for these very sort of cutting-edge technologies, but I will tell all the women listening, I do answer my DMs. I do know all the women around the country that are looking at this, and I'm happy to help direct them,

even if it's not the right idea for us. Cindy, will allow me to tell you here publicly that anything I can do to help you, your mission, your tribe, count me in. Thank you. Absolutely count me in. And number two, if somebody wants to connect with you, reach out to you. How do they find you?

So find me on social at Cindy Pink CEO. And you can go to the pinkceiling.com, and you can go through our pitch process right off of the website there. Wonderful. Well, listen, thank you so much for spending time with us. Guys and gals, thank you so much for watching and listening to The Empire Show. If you got a lot of value from the show, and I know you did, please do me a favor. Leave us a five-star review. Leave a comment.

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