Bedros Keuilian Podcast Show - How to Be a Master Salesman and Influence Decisions - 025

Episode Date: December 13, 2017

You may not realize this, but selling is a part of everyday life. You’re constantly selling yourself, an idea, your business, or even just selling people on a TV show. But if you’re word vomiting on people and not paying attention to their wants and needs, you’re going to lose the sale every time. In this episode, Craig and Bedros teach you how to close sales and influence decisions by being genuine in your approach, and identifying the problem so that you can offer the solution.   Here’s what you’ll discover:   3:13 - How Pete Vargas sold Bedros on his two day stage workshop through authenticity, referrals, and addressing the problem. 7:21 - How Bedros was unsold by a contractor who over-talked his way out of a $200,000 sale. 9:16 - Why transference of feelings is the biggest mistake people make when selling. 10:48 - How Craig uses social media to provide value and come into the sale warm. 14:22 - Why you need to listen to your prospect’s wants and make them feel understood in order to close the sale. The more talking you do, the more you talk people out of the deal. 16:23 - Why you need to share your struggles to build a rapport and trust with your prospects.

The biggest mistakes people make are transference of feelings. In other words, if you start feeling like, ooh, what I sell is expensive and I don't know if they can afford it. Yeah. You start almost talking yourself out of the sale subconsciously, right? Hey friend, let me tell you a fact of life. If you want to build an empire, you have to learn to sell. Is that right? That is right, my friend.

All right. So hi, I'm Craig Valentine. This is Vedros Kulian from the Empire podcast. And today, we're going to go back to a topic that is super important, which is selling, right? You've got to be selling, dude. Yeah, I mean, you've got to be selling in your business, in your personal relationships, your family. Everything is about sales and persuasion, right?

Yeah. In fact, you know, a lot of people, I think, feel that maybe selling is something that's slimy. It's not, it's not genuine. I think it is the most genuine thing we do. We sell people when we tell them, ask them, hi, how are you? And if you say, fine, thank you. I'm hoping that you're selling me on the idea that you're fine, right?

So selling happens at every level. But I think today we're going to break the myth, why selling is okay and it's not so bad as people think it is. Yeah, you know, even just, Before this, we were jiving around. We were talking about a TV show, and you were selling people on a TV show you like because you wanted them to check it out because it was in their best interest. Right, right.

Yeah, yeah. Curb Your Enthusiasm, in fact. I don't know if anybody out there watches Curb Your Enthus, but awesome show. Yeah, you're selling them on it right now. Uh-huh. Okay, so when was the last time you were sold something? You know, so the last time I was sold something, it was pretty recently, you introduced me to a guy named Pete Vargas.

Oh, yeah. And Pete Vargas has, you know, obviously, his mastermind is, you know, how to get more time on stages, right? So how to sell yourself to people who are having events to get on their stages. And so I sent two of my team members on it, and it cost of something like 12 grand for the two-day weekend to go. And the way Pete sold it to me made me want to buy. Okay.

And I love that process because I believe most people are buyers. We're all buyers. We're all consumers. I mean, otherwise we'd walk around with loinclods and bare feet, right? But we have cars and homes. So when I walk around? Well, that's normal. You're Canadian.

Everybody else. Got it. Yeah. Yeah. But right? So we have all these possessions and things and we do these experiences. So we are all buyers. The difference is the person's ability to buy versus their desire to buy.

So everyone's got the ability to buy. Yeah. Not everyone has the desire to buy. And what Pete did really well is he got me to desire the two-day workshop and he got me to pay for two people for my team to fly out to Colorado and sit with them for two days. And I was more than willing to because I saw tremendously. value in it and I saw the outcome that it would produce. And I think that's the easiest way to sell is deliver value and of course show the buyer the outcome they're going to get. So you got on the phone with Pete, which I think is a first step because it's a lot harder

to say no to somebody on the phone. It's even harder to say no in person compared to saying no on email. So why don't you walk us through without giving away too many Pete's secrets. It's okay, Pete. We're promoting you here. Don't worry. But tell us how the conversation went and what some of the lessons were in the selling. You know, I got to tell you, the conversation right off the bat, I remember feeling that, wow, this guy's authentic and genuine. Okay. That, like, popped right away.

Yeah. The other thing I recall is you and Shauna Kaminsky had referred him to me. Got it. Two trusted friends, right? And so where selling is concerned, especially of any kind of high ticket things, like if you're selling something high end, you don't want to come as a cold call. You want to come referred. And so Pete's referred by you and Shauna, well, these are two people I trust.

I'm going to talk to him. And already my resistance, my guard is down. Everybody enters a sales call, especially if you're the prospect with their guard up, right? We do. It's just our instinctive thing to protect ourselves, our wall up. But by feeling the authenticity and transparency on the other end and then knowing that this person comes well referred by two friends that I know like and trust, that wall is down. and I'm more receptive to his sales message. So those were the two big things right off the bat, right?

He brought up the fact that, oh, man, you know, we have Craig Ballantyne in common as friends, and oh, by the way, Shauna's come to my thing, and, yeah, I'm glad she introduced us. I didn't know that Shauna was one of your clients and your friends. And so he really nurtured that bond. Got it. And we're all connected to someone. I mean, if you think you're going to talk to someone and they're a cold call, I bet you're one, two, three degrees away from that person anyway.

Sure. Find the big connection, have them introduce you, right? make that referral, make that introduction. Oh yeah, you totally show up in a totally different way. Dude. Instead of just, you know, it's like instead of knocking on the door with, you know, trying to sell some pots and pans, you're already, you're getting the invite in first. Yes, yeah, and that's super important.

And then from there, obviously, he was like, look, what is it that you want to do from stages that you're unable to do now? I said, well, look, I'm writing this book called Man Up. And so, so really, he helped me, he forced me to identify my problem. Oh, okay. And then he said, look, here's a solution. Well, in between was this massive bridge that I needed to cross. And then he showed me how his event created the bridge.

So I'll walk you through it, right? I said, well, I'm writing this book called Man Up, and what I want to do is make it a New York Times bestseller. One of the ways that I want to do that is by doing bulk orders of sales. So rather than people paying my $12,000 speaking fee for an event, they would buy $12,000 worth of books for their audience, and then I would go and speak. And so the plan is when the book comes out in July of 2018,

I'm going to be speaking it on many stages and people are the the event is going to buy my books in bulk. He goes, okay, got it. Well, how many stages do you speak on now? I said, maybe one every six weeks. He goes, how would you like to speak on a couple per week? Whoa. Especially a couple that would buy more than 300 to 500 books at a time. I was like, Pete, tell me more.

He goes, well, you know, there's a process to this from the approach to the introduction to getting the reviews. at the end of that talk. And I, dude, I've spoken like maybe about 30, 40 stages, not in my own. And I've never once asked him for review or feedback. Testimonials that I can then take to a bigger stage and a bigger stage. So he also gave me some nuggets, right? And he showed me the what that I'm missing, but he didn't tell me how to get those reviews. So he made it very clear that this is where you are.

You need bulk orders of books sold. This is where you want to be. He showed me obvious things of what's missing. but he didn't tell me how to get it. And he said, but if you come out, I said, well, I don't have time to come out. I don't have the desire to come out. He goes, found a solution for me.

Do you have a team member who's trusted that can do this for you? I said, yeah, my director of PR. Great. Send her out. And so this is how that bridge was made. But honestly, the sale was made. If he just said, look, it's 12 grand for two people, and we're going to get you on more stages,

I would have said yes, because it already came referred from two people that I trust. the bridge that he made from my problem to his solution was the gravy on top. Awesome, awesome. And so that actually brings me the next question because, you know, he basically had to make sure he didn't talk himself out of a sale. Yeah. So when was the last time you were unsold by somebody? Oh, man.

I was actually unsold by a contractor. So you know my million dollar mistake building down the street? Yeah, yeah. Building the gym there now? Yes, yeah, I'm building a gym. And so we were talking to a contractor to figure out, you know, what walls were going to knock down. and how we're going to raise the ceiling up higher and how the flooring is going to look, et cetera.

And this guy came actually referred, yet another referral. Okay. Ironically, he talked me out of the sale when he kept making suggestions that I didn't want because he didn't listen to who I am. See, he thought I was just a regular guy who's not in the fitness industry, so he was making a gym for some entrepreneur.

So he started coming up, well, we'll have a whole bunch of treadmills there and stuff. And like, I can give two shits about a treadmill, right? I want weightlifting equipment. I want functional equipment. I want a big grass strip to flip tires. And so I kept saying, well, this is what I want, but he kept pushing me to almost like gyms that you find it, Bellagio, Aria, like the big hotel gyms. I'm like, that's not what I want.

And so rather than feeling like I have to keep, I was like, this is how the relationship is going to be with him. Right. Just I'm going to keep fighting him along the way. So he didn't take time to listen and instead he kept vomiting from the mouth of what he thought I should do, not realizing. that I live in the gym space. And so he talked himself out of a $200,000 gig.

Wow. Yeah. All right. So that is a huge common mistake, not listening as a salesperson. What are other some big mistakes that salespeople are making, whether they're selling fitness memberships or whether they're selling coaching programs or whether they're selling their books or whatever it is? Yeah.

Where are we screw it up? Yeah. I mean, like you said, it could be a $5,000 or $10,000 course. It could be something that Pete Vargas did, which is like a two-day, $12,000 weekend. It could be our $50,000 Empire Mastermind, right? I mean, there's so many big ticket sales. Joe Polish has his 25K group.

The biggest mistakes people make are transference of feelings. In other words, if you start feeling like, ooh, what I sell is expensive and I don't know if they can afford it. You start almost talking yourself out of the sale subconsciously, right? Or you think you know what they want better than what they tell you what they want, like the contractor guy. He kept thinking, I want a Las Vegas hotel type of gym where I want like a meathead type of gym, right? And he talked himself out of the sale.

So transference of feelings, whether it's negative feelings or just misdirected feelings or thoughts or misinterpreting what the person wants, is the worst thing you can do because you're assuming you're making assumptions without validation of those assumptions and you end up losing the sale. Yeah, I think that's one of the biggest ones is the first part of that, where you talked about people are, oh man, how can I ask for $500 for this or $5,000 for this? So most people are too afraid to ask for the sale. And even if they do ask for the sale, they ask for it improperly, they pull their punches, that sort of thing. So what are some of the tips that you've given people over the years to like go and become better salesperson? You've taught me to ask for a $25,000 sale, and I've made it. And now you're like, you've got to ask for more than that because I know that I could have gotten. more than that from a lot of people. Well, actually, before we even go into that, I mean, both of your

$25,000 workshops, and I was one of the ones who paid you for that, and your $9,000 want perfect life workshops. I mean, you're routinely on the phone now making those sales. Yeah. And what's really neat that I've seen with you, and hopefully you can go into it, you start the sale on social media. Yeah. I always notice either started on social media or through a personal introduction where you come in warm and not cold. So why don't you kind of explain how your sales process works since you sell high-end stuff? Right, exactly.

So that's what, you know, goes back to what you were saying before with Pete. You know, he was referred to you. It's easier. Okay, now we're friends. We're just having a conversation. If I'm going to start it on social media, those people are already following me, which means they're holding me in high esteem,

which therefore I have a position of strength in the relationship, in the conversation that, hey, listen, I know what's right for you. easier for me to take that voice, that character approach to it because they're the ones who started it by liking or loving something that I did. Then I go, hey, listen, I got great value for you, just like Pete came to you and said, listen, we got great friends in common. They've all come to my stuff. They're referring me. I got you. I'm going to take care of you. And that's what I do for the people that contact me. I'm going to take care of you. You see

the value. You see all these people coming to my workshops. You see them loving it, them posting, comments. You know, Shauna Kaminsky recently just posted a picture of us on Instagram, and it was a huge thing about how I was her coach and how everyone needs a coach and how my coaching has helped her. And that just makes it so easy for me to go in and have the conversation and then say, you know, I posted that today. I reposted it. And now all these people are liking it. Well, I can say, well, if you've helped Shauna, when can I be your coach? And then now we can start that conversation because they'll come back and either say, well, tell me more, or, you know, I'm kind of struggling here. I'll add value like Pete added value to you to give them results in advance, as Frank Kernan

used to say. And away we go. We just start that conversation and keep the conversation going. Never let it die. Yeah. And so without Shana ever introducing you just by you reposting what she posted about you being her coach in the value she got from you, really ones up happening is it's almost like a referral by proxy. Sure. Right? Because you post that up there. You probably tag Shana. Some of her friends see it and they start liking it or commenting. It opens up the conversation to, hey, I was her coach. Where can I be your coach? Yeah, absolutely.

And so then you go into the conversation you had with Pete. We bridge the gap. Like, okay, where are you right now? We understand that. Okay, here's where you'd probably like to be, right? Yes, absolutely. Well, what are the obstacles in the way? That's another thing that I like to have the conversation with and ask that question.

And then what I find is people talk themselves into a sale. So if I don't have to talk myself or talk a sale into them, they can talk themselves into a sale and I just say, well, can I help you with that? They say yes, and away we go. And to that point, let's go down that list of kind of best practices, right? And so obviously we talked about that you want to come referred. You want to come in lukewarm or warm, hot, ideally, versus being a cold call. Yes, absolutely. Number one. You want to come in authentic and trusted and obviously someone who is being transparent with them. You have to come off likable. Because we all have these reptilian minds still and our radar is always up. I mean,

I mean, why is it that you can meet someone and you go, man, I could be best friends with this guy. Within 10 minutes of talking to him. And then you meet the next guy. Within 10 minutes, you're like, something on the back is causing me the hair on the back of my neck to stand. That happened in Vegas to us recently. Remember, after we left the dinner one night and you were like, mm-mm, and I was like, yep. It was because it was kind of because they reminded us of somebody else we've had a bad experience with, but also they didn't stop talking about themselves. Yeah, exactly.

And so you got to be so self-aware. The more talking you do, believe it or not, you're talking people out of a sale. Most people are under the impression that if I keep doing a lot of talking, I'm going to eventually say something that's going to resonate with you and you're going to go, I'll buy it. It's not the case. Really, our job as the closer is simply to ask enough open-ended questions to talk them into the sale.

So once we have, once we come trusted, once we come with rapport and likability and all that stuff, it's really three specific things. Where are you right now in your life? Where do you want to go between now and a given period of time, 90 days a year? what are the pains and frustrations that's stopping you from getting there. And by asking those three questions, and maybe each one has a couple of other supporting questions, like, if you go, where are you right now, oh, man, my life sucks. Well, okay, before you can sell them, your $25,000 private coaching program,

tell me exactly how your life sucks. Can you give me three or four examples, right? And so you're kind of stirring the pot more, and you're letting me go, well, my life sucks because of this, and they might go into health and relationship and finance. You go, you know what, I understand. And so part of that first phase is people need to feel understood. If you go, yeah, I know, I had a couple other clients feel the same way. Well, that, okay, what did you do?

But if you say, you know what, dude, I understand. I felt the same way before. I've had other clients feel that way. Yeah, and can I interrupt you on that? That's the power of social media today and telling your story. So I have had so many clients come to me because I grew up on a farm. So many clients come to me because I've talked about quitting drinking. You know, some guys come into one of my workshops.

He's like struggling with alcohol right now. I was able to send him a YouTube video, is able to send him a podcast that I've done, talking about all that stuff. And so if you only show the best parts of you on social media and you don't ever talk about anything you struggled with, then you're actually taking that lukewarm referral and you're making yourself colder by being perfect.

Perfect equals cold and vulnerable equals warm in social media world selling today. Do you know why Superman is Superman? Because he's Clark Kent. That's one reason. because there's also crypticine. There's kryptonite. Right. Right.

Superman would not be Superman if there was no kryptonite. And so oftentimes we do want to show our super side, never showing people the chink in our armor of, you know, anxiety, of trauma, of drinking, of financial woes. And when you show that, people start finding little, what I call golden threads to grab onto you. Oh, he's like me there. Oh, my God, he's like me there. You know what? We have a lot in common. And instantly, a bond is made because here's what happens.

When if I have a drinking problem and I hear you and you go, I had a drinking problem, right? And you're honest about it and you say you openly explain the challenges it gave you in your life. I'm like, you know what? I can respect that. I have those challenges that he's gone through before. And then I grab onto that golden thread. The funny thing is right now you and I just have that one thing in common. The human mind then goes, well, if we have those two in common, he also must be like this, that, and the other.

And we always start filling in the gaps of what we don't know by going, he also must be a good guy like I am. He also must be a hardworking family man. And so we start building on top of that golden thread and literally start manufacturing more rapport. Right? And so, again, going back to that first question, you know, what is your life like now? Or what is your business like if you're selling business coaching or if you're selling clothes, custom suits, you know, what is your wardrobe like?

What does it say about you? Right. And then you go to the next question. What do you want your life to be like? What do you want your business to be like? What do you want your wardrobe to be like and say about you? And people go, well, I want to be successful. Tell me more.

Give me three examples of what success looks like to you. You know, freedom with my family, not having to worry when I'm traveling. You know, not missing my kids when I'm at work. Oh, yeah, you know what? I understand. Again, making people feel understood. I understand how you feel. I felt that same way before.

Some of my best clients have felt that some way. In fact, let me give you an example of one who reminds me of you, right? Again, you're giving them that golden thread. Our job is just to stir the pot with questions and then give them golden threads for them to grab onto. Oh, I like that. That's such a great analogy. And then connecting the dots. And then connect the dots.

And finally, you go, well, then so you created the where you are and where do you want to go. Now the last question is, well, what's stopping you? And they're going to say, well, this is what's stopping my drinking problem. Or I constantly seem to self-sabotage or I just don't feel I deserve high-end clothes. Now it's your job to then bridge the gap with giving them the what. but not the how and then saying so if we can start working together 12 months from now, you'll have that outcome. And they organically come to the conclusion of,

then what is it take to work with you, Coach? Got it. And they make it happen. They make it happen. Yeah. So they talk themselves into the sale. You're not the salesman. You're just the assistant buyer.

Your job is to help them come to that conclusion. That's fantastic. I love it. I love it. And it goes all the way back to what you had, the conversation you had with Pete. So Pete was teaching, well, Pete was selling you and teaching you how to then go out and sell to get on stages. Getting those specific social proofs, those comments and feedback. And he was just doing everything that you just taught us to do to sell better.

Yes, indeed. Beautiful. So that's how you build your empire, whether you're selling personal relationships, whether you're selling to get on stages, selling books, selling coaching, selling franchises. It all starts with listening and then making the sale. Yes, sir. Thanks for listening to the Empire Podcast Show. Remember to subscribe on iTunes, share it with your friends, and give us a rating.

We'd really appreciate that. And make sure to go to Empirepodcastshow.com to watch the videos as they come out.