Beef And Dairy Network - Episode 38 - Rev Hillary Block

Episode Date: August 19, 2018

Matthew Crosby, Gemma Arrowsmith and Tom Crowley join in for this episode in which we talk to a priest whose views about the life of Jesus threaten to turn Christianity on its head. We also hear about the seemingly unstoppable progress of the Church Of Eli. By Benjamin Partridge, Matthew Crosby, Gemma Arrowsmith and Tom Crowley. Stock media provided by Setuniman/Pond5.com and Soundrangers/Pond5.com. MERCHANDISE LINK: http://www.beefanddairynetwork.com/merch

The Beef and Dairy Network podcast is sponsored by Bove Shield Plunge, the new antimicrobial cattle dip from Mitchell's. If it's not Mitchell's, get back in the truck. While Bove Shield was originally formulated to disinfect cattle, it's also perfect for getting bloodstains off a briefcase full of banknotes. Just mix with your panic tears and scrub. For 10% off your next delivery, use the code I didn't mean to. Hello and welcome to the Beef and Dairy Network podcast, the number one podcast for those involved or just interested in the production of beef animals and dairy herds. The Beef and Dairy Network podcast is the podcast companion

to the Beef and Dairy Network website and a printed magazine, brought to you by Bovshield Plunge. Later, we'll take our own plunge into the Beef and Dairy Network postbag. But first, this month I spoke to Reverend Hilary Block, a priest whose revolutionary teachings about the life of Jesus threaten to turn Christianity on its head. He has been preaching his controversial message for a couple of years now, both from the pulpit at his church St Catherine's in Bromley

and on his YouTube channel, where he also rails against the mainstream media and unboxes kitchen gadgets. But an appearance last week on BBC Television's religious affairs programme Songs of Praise went viral and brought him to the world's attention. I won't attempt to describe his beliefs myself because they are complex, nuanced, and it's better for you to hear it from the man himself. But be warned, they may change the way you think about everything. Hello, my name is Father Hilary Block,

and I am the parish priest at St Catherine's. I began by asking Reverend Hilary to explain the new theological framework that he has introduced at his church, St Catherine's, and how it differs from the more traditional Catholic doctrine. Well, I mean, I'm loathe to say it differs. I think it's actually a progression. It's an evolution. It is a step forwards.

Well, the long and the short of it is I believe that Jesus, our Lord, our Saviour, the Son of God, was a cow. Just a normal... Well, not a normal cow. No, obviously not. A cow that was also the son of God. Right. But a cow nevertheless. Obviously, from popular depictions of Jesus throughout the history of art, for example,

he is depicted as a white man with a hipster beard. Looks like the kind of man you might see working in a coffee shop that also fixes bikes. Absolutely, yes. That kind of guy. You're saying that a coffee shop that also fixes bikes. Absolutely, yes. That kind of guy. You're saying that that's not true, that's not what he was. That's absolutely not what he was. That is very much a construct. If you look at the Bible, then you'll know that, well, firstly, the Bible you're reading is written in English.

Right. Was it written originally in English? I assume not. It was not written in English. It was written in a variety of languages. I mean, I assume at some stage it has been written in German. I've not...

It wasn't originally written in German. No, it wasn't originally written in German. Sorry. Sorry, yes. No, no, no. I don't know where I got that idea from. No, no. A variety of Aramaic, Hebrew,

probably a bit of Esperanto thrown in for good measure. But it's been written in a variety of languages. It has been translated according to the whims of monarchs, according to the whims of powerful people. Now, what do powerful people look like? Men with beards. So doesn't it make a lot of sense that somewhere along the way they would retranslate the bible to suggest that jesus was just a common or garden man with a lovely beard didn't it make a lot more sense to go back to the original source material and to look at what some of those words might actually have meant

and is that what you've done no but it's something that I have a very strong feeling that one day I will do. I would like to first build up my faith because the man who can believe but not see, that is the true Christian. And I haven't seen a cow that looks like Jesus. I have got no evidence that Jesus was a cow apart from my unflappable faith and belief. There are obviously cattle in the Bible. Yes. They haven't been erased from the Bible. No.

Famously, there was an ox in the stable when Jesus was born. That's right. Yes. It's all there. So when you say it's all there, you're saying that that's somehow connected to the idea that Jesus was. Was Jesus that ox? Is that what you're saying? I'm not saying Jesus was an ox. That's ludicrous. Jesus was a cow. But let's face it, in a human hospital, when humans are being born, what are they surrounded by? Other humans. If a cow is being born, chances are there are other cows around. So it's a bit of a coincidence, and I appreciate it was a manger, it was a stable. It's not a traditional birth, but it's weird's weird isn't it that there's a cow there i mean was there a cow at your birth

there was but um but i will admit that that's unusual okay that's a bad that's a bad example there um but i wasn't born in a stable i was. I was born in a normal hospital. All right, that's it. You're doing brilliantly, darling. You're doing brilliantly, okay? Keep it up. Just keep breathing. Think about your breathing exercises, okay?

Okay. Oh, God. You're doing brilliantly, all right? It's going to be over soon. You can do this. You can do this. Well done. Why is there a cow in here? That's to bring you comfort, all right?

Get that fucking cow out of here now! Alright, okay, we can just think about your breathing. Can we do something about the cow? Sorry. What is wrong with you? What? Obviously people in the modern world are quite keen on evidence and you've put forward some things that you've found in the Bible that you think, if you think of Jesus as a cow,

sort of start making more sense. This is right. Now, there are certain moments in the Bible that I think don't make a lot of sense if you think of Jesus as a human man with a beard. Let's start with the Sermon on the Mount. Why would a man be up a mount? It doesn't make a lot of sense. If I'm driving through the countryside, which I love to do, and I look out the window of the Corsa and I see a mount, the chances are I might see sheep on the mount. I might see goats on the mount. I might see some cattle on a mount. Am I really going to see a man standing there in a robe with a beard, waving his arms around, telling people to love their neighbour as thyself or blessed are the peacemakers.

Of course I'm not. So already it feels a lot more logical that there was a cow that had stood up on its hind legs and started talking and that's where a crowd appeared. I mean, if a man stood on a mountain and started talking, he would be shouting into the wind. But if a cow started talking, now we've got a party. Right. Yeah, well, I mean, you should convince me.

Great. That's fantastic. Well, mission accomplished. I'll see you on Sunday. In your YouTube video, one of the more popular ones is the one where you talk about the loaves and fishes and the feeding of the 5,000. Absolutely. Or as I call it, nose-to-tail dining. Because if a cow gave of himself, how many people could eat one cow? I mean, it's got to be close to 5,000, hasn't it? So you're saying that Jesus dismembered himself and spread himself around a crowd of 5,000 people? Yes.

and spread himself around a crowd of 5,000 people? Yes, I think what Jesus did was he literally stood up on his back hooves, started pulling off his ribs and handing them around to people. They would eat them, and then they'd look down to the bone, gobbling away on it and go, hang on a sec, I thought I'd finished this. Looks like there's still meat on it. Because what did Jesus do on the third day? He day he rose again he was dead and he came back to life if we follow that logic it means that anybody could have taken a bite out of jesus at any time

and he would have you know over a course of maybe two to three days grown back a a hoof or grown back a flank or so basically that this is the reason he was able to feed so many people the idea of it being loaves and fishes is a pure hogwash so he was a self-replenishing meat machine basically absolutely he was a one-stop shop i've taken what you said so far in face value and i haven't wanted to challenge you too much because you've you know over the past couple of weeks had to um endure quite a lot of people who are taking issue with what you have to say. Yeah. I saw your interview on Songs of Praise. Obviously, Jesus said all are welcome in this place, but I really do regret

opening my doors to the Songs of Praise crew. I'm not going to lie to you. The reason I wanted them to come into the church was numbers have been falling. I wanted those ears, those eyes to see this message. But then, of course, it was a complete hatchet job and a puff piece. And they made me look like some sort of gibbering lunatic. And of course, some of that was they show up with a plastic cow mask and ask me to put it on and preach. And you get whisked away with the showbiz, the razzmatazz of it all. The fake udders.

I mean, I didn't exactly cover myself in glory, but... That bit at the end where you were squirting milk out of the rubber udders into the camera lens. Yeah, well, I'll tell you, that was actually a compromise. They wanted me to squirt holy water onto the head of an infant and i refused and i think quite justifiably i said that for me and for my parishioners milk is holy water it's the holiest of waters in fact i i have filled the baptismal font with milk before but again it turns so quickly. You fill it at 7am, the baptism is at 10, by that point it's virtually cheese. So I said, here's my compromise,

I'll fill the others with milk and I will squirt them directly onto the camera lens. Obviously, they put a sheet of glass because the camera turns out very expensive. So I squirted it onto them and I regret every second of it because I watched it back and it didn't look good. But yes, I've had a lot of abuse. Yes, I've had a lot of people leaving the church who were already parishioners. But for every 10 people I've lost, I've probably gained one or two people who have come from far afield because they love the message. Who are the kind of people that are attracted by your message? So we've got a lot of people who just really like milk. And yes, I don't want to use the term perverts because we're all God's children, but I have to use the term perverts because we're all God's children,

but I have to use the term perverts. They're all perverts? Not every single one of my parishioners is, but a lot of the new influx. We appeared on a human cow fetish website where human beings are linked up to machines to stimulate their... Anyway, I don't need to go into the details of that. All I need to say is that my segment from Songs of Praise, where I was squirting the camera with milk,

was absolute catnip to those guys. And so I do get a lot of people showing up now in rubber cow outfits who want to roll around in the baptismal font, you know, just churning it up until it's basically like butter wrestling. So when you were squeezing that milk out of the udders onto the camera, you could say that that was a red rag to a pervert dressed as a bull? dressed as a bull? Very much so, yes. It was the bat signal for weirdos. My long game, as I see it, is that I'm going to eventually turn these people around. It's just a shame that the very thing that I am promoting as the secret to life, the secret to eternal life, is the very thing that turns them on so much. After the appearance on Songs of Praise went viral,

there was an ensuing media storm where the tabloid press attempted to discredit him by digging into his history and finding links with a satanic punk band. When I brought this up, Reverend Hillary was actually very open with me and seemed pleased to be able to explain his past, claiming that throughout his time in the band, he was trying to promote Christianity and not Satanism. I've lived a few lives prior to becoming a vicar. I played in a series of punk rock bands,

sort of punk rock slash new wave of British heavy metal, that sort of... I was in a band called Oven, had a really, really wonderful time touring around with the lads. Increasingly, I think my Christian message that I tried to put across in our music was at odds with their sort of satanic message. The other members had the satanic messages. It became increasingly clear.

And I think it was pushback on their part, that the more Christian I became, the more satanic they became. So I would suggest that we sang a song about praising the Lord, and they would suggest that we sang a song about the sex magic rituals of Alistair Crowley. It sounds like an oven gig was quite a confusing prospect. It really was. It really, really was. Not least that we were all drummers. an oven gig was quite a confusing prospect it really was it really really was um not least that we were all drummers uh i remember one gig at uh it was a fox and firkin in lee we had a big

bust up before we got to even the first song as to who was going to click the sticks together and go one two three four which if you're a drummer, that's your bread and butter. That's how you sort of stamp your mark on the song before the song's even begun. But with seven of us all drumming, it became a problem. Oven never released any records, but a bootlegged recording of an early Oven gig obtained by us at the network shows how Oven were a band with a big schism down the middle right from the start. This is one of their songs, I Love Satan. So when did you know it was time to put down your drumsticks and become a vicar?

I think it was probably our last gig. I mean, I didn't know at the time that it was going to be our last gig. We were about to launch into a song about Anton LaVey, obviously a practitioner of satanic magic. The chorus was Anton LaVey, yay, yay, yay. I was, of course, trying as loud as I could to sing nay nay nay to put my Christian message forward and uh just as I'm hitting the third nay of the nay nay nay I feel a drumstick clock me on the back of the head I turn around to see who's thrown it and it's it's Gary and Gary Gary's the drummer Gary is yes he's the he's the drummer exactly and he's uh stood next to Ian the drummer. Gary is, yes, he's the drummer, exactly. And he's stood next to Ian, the drummer. And Ian has got both drumsticks up his nostrils.

He's brought his head back and smashed himself down on a tom, forcing the drumsticks up into his brain. Now, it didn't kill him, but it gave him a hell of a migraine. And what was Ian up to then i think i think he was trying to take his own life as a sort of sacrificial offering to the dark lord after the drumsticks up the nose incident with ian the band's dissolved and it was this that was the springboard to hillary becoming priest. I wanted a fresh start. I wanted a big reset button for my life.

And that came in the form of a sign. I was walking home and I was saying, God, if you're there, I'd like to hear a noise, some sort of noise. And that came in the form of uh of silence and i think that's sort of been the ethos for my faith throughout my life it's almost like jazz it's the miracles he's not performing it's the gaps between the miracles it's the gaps between the miracles. It's the gaps between the miracles. And so far, my life has been full of wonderful, glorious gaps. So in a way, your lack of any kind of positive experience coming from God is his way of showing you that he's there.

I know he's constantly there because of the silence. You know how a couple who are truly connected can just enjoy the silence between each other? That's what I have with God. So you and God are basically sitting on a beach with a book in hand, not having to say anything. It's not having to speak to each other. I mean, actually, that's not entirely true

because obviously prayer, I speak to him all the time. But the fact that he doesn't respond, I take great comfort from that. More after this. Hiring is challenging. But there's one place you can go where hiring is simple, fast and smart. That place is ZipRecruiter. ZipRecruiter sends your job to over 100 of the web's leading job boards.

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I love you, Glenderman. ZipRecruiter.com slash beef. Back to our interview with Reverend Hillary in a moment. But first, some important news for network members. We were contacted earlier this month by Cultwatch Worldwide, a body set up to monitor sect and cult activity across the globe. The reason that they contacted us here at the network was that in their recent annual report, the so-called religion run by former Beef and Dairy interview subject Eli Roberts, the Church of Eli, has been listed as the world's fastest-growing cult.

Since its foundation in early 2017, it has already grown to a scale that Cultwatch Worldwide call worthy of a Netflix documentary. Aside from its headquarters in the Welsh valley town of Llancaig, there are now regional Church of Eli centres on every continent, including Antarctica. And a few weeks ago, Eli himself, who many had assumed to be dead, was photographed opening a new 40,000-seat Church of Eli megachurch in South Korea. Members of the church, who worship a bull called Malcolm and call themselves the Persuasion, have been deluging the Beef and Dairy Network online message boards and sending us thousands of emails every day. So, on to not read it out. We stand against the Church of Eli. You are not welcome.

So, on to this month's letters. The first one is from Glenda in York. She writes, Dear Beef and Dairy Network, I'm not a member of the Church of Eli. That's a good start. I'm just a normal woman without any cultish beliefs. That's music to my ears.

I'd love to meet you someday. Maybe you could meet me at the 40,000 seat megachurch that I attend in South Korea. Hang on. Okay. Next letter. Hello, my name is Albert and I'm a farmer from the west of Scotland. Good. Okay. I have had increasing trouble finding quality stud bulls in recent months. Their semen is of a low quality, the sort of thing you get from a runty, barely pubescent bullock with tiny, tiddly bollocks like a pair of sad grapes. If only Malcolm and the bull were still alive. OK, yep.

This one's from Paul in Norfolk. All hail Eli. No, OK. Hang on. Okay. This next one is from Ursula in Benfleet. Dear Beef and Dairy Network, I've been a member of the network for 10 years now. I first joined when I became a butcher, but now I've moved on to illegal backstreet calf racing. Sounds exciting. You've been with me every step of the way and so i would like to invite you to my wedding to fellow calf racer tonely the service will be at 3 p.m at the 40 000 seats oh for pity's sake

back to our big interview with the reverend hillary blog why in your view was jesus crucified and secondly is it even possible to nail a cow which they can you know weigh several tons to a wooden cross well i'll take those questions one by one. Let's start with the second question. It's definitely possible to nail a cow to a cross, as we proved at our Harvest Festival. But why would they crucify him is a much bigger question. And it's the same reason that I am being harassed and harangued by people on Twitter. Fear. They thought his message was dangerous. They thought the method of delivering the message was dangerous. Let's face it, if you want to prove that you are a miracle worker, well, miracle one, I'm a talking cow. So it means that the water into wine i mean that's

just gravy on i should say as well that of course water into wine was water into milk that's what a cow does so he turns up at the wedding guzzles what litres and litres of water they all wait around and then he starts expressing it absolutely and uh And all the wedding guests at Cana had a really wonderful time. And also, it's a talking piece, isn't it? Because everyone who gets married wants that one thing. You know, whether it's the photo booth where you can wear a hat and hold up an inflatable... Chocolate fountain. Chocolate fountain, exactly.

One of those things, you know, we're not having a cake. We're actually having a big pile of cheese, something like that. If you can drink milk out of a cow's udders. It's kind of, you know, did you hear what happened at Jehoshaphat's wedding? Absolutely. They had a cow there and you could just help yourself. Absolutely. And also the cow spoke and has a wonderful message about peace, love and not coveting their neighbour's oxen. That makes a lot more sense. peace, love and not coveting their neighbour's oxen.

That makes a lot more sense. Why would you even bring oxen into it if it wasn't a cow delivering this message? Talking cow. I just the more I say it the more I believe it, the more passionate I feel about it. Talking cow.

The Pope called you this week and I, a silly bastard. Is that fair? That was, and I'm not going to mince words, that was a real kick in the jaffas. Because as a Catholic priest, you look up to the Pope. And also, he's got that sneaky little infallibility clause, papal infallibility, which means if he says a thing, it's true. So it leaves me in a bit of a...

So you are a silly bastard. I mean, I don't, I'm not getting business cards printed. That's all I'm going to say. And it was infuriating that in a few of the local news reports, when they came to this very room and chatted to me, that little strapline at the bottom, it didn't say parish priest. It didn't say a true believer. It said silly bastard.

And it wasn't even in quote marks when they put it down the bottom of the screen. And I think that seems irresponsible. Oh, he's so beautiful. Is he okay? He's perfect. Is the cow back in here? Is the cow licking the baby? Licking him clean.

Stop the cow from licking our son! I can't stop him now. He's stuck right in there. I can't. Surely this isn't hygienic? Is this even allowed? It's natural. It's all been cleared. I haven't even held him yet! Well, you will soon, once he's clean. The Pope's use of the phrase silly bastard came as part of a wider speech given on the balcony at the Vatican,

officially excommunicating Reverend Hillary and his church, St Catherine's, from the Catholic Church. St Cat's is now independent, yes. Did I jump? Was I pushed? is a question that we could debate all day. And the answer is I was pushed. I was told in no uncertain terms that if I continued to preach that Jesus was a cow, they would take my parish away. And so what I did was I basically...

Hostage situation is a strong term. There were no weapons. strong term. There were no weapons. During one of my sermons, I got one of the bigger altar boys to go outside the church and lock the doors from the outside. And here we are today. We're 12, 13 people strong, not including the perverts. And some good has come out of this. Some good has come out of this. A lot of good has come out of this. Some good has come out of this. A lot of good has come out of this. I've actually reunited with some of my bandmates from Oven. Ian, he's still... He was the guy who put the sticks up his nose.

He was the guy with the sticks up his nose and he's still alive and kicking. Actually, he's back now and he found me coincidentally through the fetish website because that's been his thing ever since he lost his faith in Satan and was looking for something else. And for some reason, the rubber fetish dressing as a cow was only taking him so far.

And I think the final piece of the puzzle has clicked into place with him. So he's now one of your congregations? He's now one of the merry band. And could we see the beginnings of an oven reunion? Well, I'm not averse to taking the church in a more evangelical direction. I think it'd be great if he brought along possibly some of his tablas or even just a snare and sort of drummed along with some of my more bombastic sermons. I'd be very happy for that to... Obviously, I think we want to play down his associations with cults and sex magic. Well, this brings me on to the last

thing I want to ask you about, which is you'll be aware of the rising popularity of the Church of Eli, which is, you know, now becoming well known. It's spreading across the world. How do you respond to the rumours that your church has aligned itself with the Church of Eli? And that is why you left the Catholic Church. You're going to have to refresh my memory, because I only have a vague memory of... I mean, obviously, I've met Eli a few times. There's photographic evidence that's been used against me many times. But, you know, Elvis met Nixon. Does that make Elvis a bad person? No.

No, but there are also photographs of you giving a sermon in the 40,000-seater Church of Eli Maga church that's in South Korea. Firstly, yes, there are photographs. You don't hear what I'm saying in those photographs. Obviously, that's the nature of photographs. I'm actually attempting to save 40,000 sinners and to bring them back to St. Catherine's in Bromley and to tell them there is actually a way, a different way. You know, I don't like it. Well, so hang on, you hope that all 40,000 of those largely South Korean Church of Eli congregation members would move to Bromley in Southeast London?

It was a punt. And not an unsuccessful punt. We didn't get all 40,000, but I've had some very, very encouraging emails from eight or nine of them. You know, as soon as they can cobble the funds together, which is obviously difficult because... 90% of their money is going to Eli. As soon as they can cobble those funds together,

they're going to get the next flight over. And hopefully I'll be able to greet them with open arms and they can bathe in the fount of milk. I really cannot stress enough that that was a mission. I was very much like the... But do you see... Yes, go on. Do you see when people think about what you're saying theologically, that Jesus was a cow, that that is somewhat similar to the Church of Eli's central belief, which is that they worship

Malcolm the Bull, of course, who was a bull who wouldn't die and had to be killed 12 times. There's a real similarity there, isn't there, between the two figures you're looking up to. And you could imagine a world where those two things begin to merge. No, I can't imagine that world. I look at Malcolm as a sort of Rasputin figure, the mad monk who refused to die. I don't see Rasputin and Jesus as being similar. In the same way that if I went to a Boney M concert, I wouldn't think of that as going to church. I wouldn't think of that as going to church.

So I look at Eli's followers, the persuasion, and I see them as lost calves. I see them as so close to the word of God, but yet so far. In many ways, like the members of Oven, they needed to worship. They wanted to worship. They just picked the wrong God. Final question. Yes. If Jesus is a cow, what is God?

Well, God is beef. And the one who lives in beef lives in God, and God lives in him. Put it this way. You can't spell belief without beef. Reverend Henry Block, thank you very much. It's been an absolute pleasure. A big thanks to Reverend Hilary Block for that interview. If you'd like to attend a service at St Catherine's, the weekly Sunday service takes place at 10am. And he told me that if you take your own mug, you can drink as much milk as you like from the baptismal font. If it isn't chock full of perverts in rubber cow suits, that is.

So, that's all we've got time for this month. But if you're after more beef and dairy news, get over to the website now, where you'll find all the usual stuff, as well as our off-topic section, where this month we go to France to find out how heavy-handed a security guard will be if you throw a pine cone at the Mona Lisa.

So, until next time, beef out. Thanks to Matthew Crosby, Gemma Arrowsmith and Tom Crowley. And to you, thanks for listening. I've got some fun news. I just want to let you know that for the first time, there is such a thing as Beef and Dairy Network merchandise available for you to buy. Over the years, we've had lots of you getting in touch,

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