Beef And Dairy Network - Episode 57 - Introducing... Bimpsie!

Episode Date: March 22, 2020

Jason Mantzoukas, Natasha Hodgson, Jesse Thorn, Lucy Farrett and Tim Bick join in as we give the podcast a revamp and interview one of the most famous artists and futurists working today. By Benjamin Partridge, Jason Mantzoukas, Natasha Hodgson and Lucy Farrett. Thanks to Jesse Thorne and Tim Bick. Tim Bick’s voiceover webpage is here: https://timbickvoiceover.co.uk Stock media provided by Setuniman/Pond5.com and Soundrangers/Pond5.com

Hi, it's Jesse, the founder of MaxFun, coming to you from the microphone at my home office where I am socially segregating. So we promised you a MaxFun drive this week, but things haven't exactly gone how we expected. So given the pandemic, we're going to postpone this year's drive. Events are still fluid, so we're hesitant to give you specifics about new dates. Right now, we have late April penciled into our calendars. We'll keep you posted about that. As it stands, a lot of our drive machinery was already cranked up. So for one thing, you might hear a reference or two to the drive in our shows, which might have been recorded before we made this decision.

And here is some good news. There's a bunch of great bonus content available for all of our Max Fund members. If you're a member and you missed the email with instructions on how to listen, check your spam folder or log in at MaximumFund.org slash manage. Also at MaximumFun.org slash manage. You can change your membership if your circumstances have changed. We know this is a tough time for a lot of people and we understand. You can also go to MaximumFun.org slash join at any time if you'd like to become a member. During the next couple of weeks, what would have been the drive, we're going to do our best to be extra available to you. We've got some streaming events planned, some social media stuff. We know a lot of folks are isolated right now, and we want to help provide comfort in the best ways that we know how. You can follow us on social media and we'll let you know what's up. During this tough time, I have been feeling really grateful

for my community of colleagues here at MaxFun and for you, the folks who make our work possible. Goofy as that work may sometimes be. Stay safe out there. We're thinking of you. safe out there. We're thinking of you. Hello. Before the podcast episode starts properly, I just want to warn you that today's episode is going to be a little bit different from normal. This month, we have been working with a podcast consultant, Melanie Handcatch from Handcatch PR, and she has made a few changes to the format. Now, I know many of you have been listening for years and you're used to the familiarity of the various things we do on the show, but hopefully this will be for the best. I've got Melanie here with us. Hello, Melanie. Very excited. Yes, nice to be here. Maybe you could just, first of all, explain to us why it is that we brought you in.

Absolutely. Well, it won't be a surprise to learn that this show is in some considerable amount of debt. We've gone through the various records. You've managed to carve out some interesting debts. You've invested heavily in personal vinegars. There's some financial back and forth with actor Ted Danson that I'm struggling to understand. Yes, that's not actually debt. No?

I mean, we don't owe him money. We just owe him a lot of grain. Again, we don't know how this happened. I don't know if that counts as debt, though, if it's grain. I'm really not here to do the niceties of the grain transaction between you and actor ted danson i'm just saying it's an issue that at some point danson will have to be paid be that in grain in money and blood and i just want to make it clear it's not danson who sent you we've actually brought you in ourselves exactly and and you know i think that's a good move one of the only good

moves that's been made um in this podcast so far You seem to owe quite a lot of my 150 million to the Estonian government. Again, we're not sure how that happened. This is all down to our former accountant, Dominic Bumrun. Anyway, you're here. We're here. And the idea is you're going to try and make us a bit more profitable. Yes. So we've been doing a lot of a deep dive into the kind of people that listen to this podcast.

And we've constructed a sort of key user and it tends to be farming stock 40 to 50 wears sort of a single hat for any occasion and they're not you know this man is a good man but he doesn't bring money into the show and i think part of of that problem for you is that you know that does nothing to lessen your debt with ted anson or the australian government yeah and obviously the the nightmare scenario is if those two ever got together and you know if ted danson could harness the power of the estonian government and vice versa yeah i mean it doesn't bear thinking yes well it's not wouldn't be the first time and the consequences as we know have been global and absolutely disastrous do you not think though

that you know given what the podcast is it's the the Beef and Dairy Network, it's always going to skew towards people who do work in the industry? I think not necessarily. I think what you're doing here is a sort of disservice to the concept of beef. We've identified a number of key markets. What we did, we've started by trying to go in to who dislikes this podcast the most and see if we can just flip that around. So we found that, interestingly, young girls between the ages of six and nine, they're not interested. They don't get it. Sure. And I think it's about time we...

We've spent a lot of money on you doing this research. Thank you. I'm pretty sure i could have come to that conclusion myself we're not really aiming at the six to nine year old girl market yeah well that's very that's very clear from the output uh and i think you know if you were to try you could see some really interesting positive results really quickly because the thing about you know i've got three girls they love beef you know they're interested in it what they don't like is the way you're packaging the beef as it were currently the market's there it's just currently the content

is not matching the need and i think if we do some good work here today we can really turn that around for you because honestly those girls given half a chance they're meat crazy okay i mean at the end of the day you are a podcast consultant um yeah well yes this is well not this this specific industry i've been in quite recently but i have i've we were told that you're one of the world's leading podcast consultants yes well i that is true i am one of the world's leading not podcast consultants specifically but world's leading um theme park consultants and there's a lot of crossover there is a lot of crossover um because we were told that you yeah were behind the success of this american life um well no and you did the murder that started serial off

no both of those not that wasn't that wasn't one of mine, fortunately, murders. And I, you know, an American life, this American life, these are words we can throw around all the live long day. What I have done, I've proved myself endlessly in terms of theme park consultancy. You know, look at Merlin's Land in Doncaster. You know, look at Stickle Bricks in Kent. Before I came along, Alton Towers towers it was a bog with a flag in it these are things you can't teach and when sea world came to me and said we're up shit creek without a bloody seahorse what are we gonna do that was the first podcast i did i'd hold my

hands up that was the first one you did a sea world podcast yes we did we did a sea world podcast it's called krill kingdom and what they did did, those poor guys at SeaWorld, they were having a hell of a time because they had these pedantic people coming in being like, oh, you can't, you know, these whales are trying to escape and they're having to get the harpoons. You know, it's a nightmare for them. And the kiddies are, you know, having a good time. But the branding was off. So off so we thought change it around focus on the krill and we've done this podcast and it's been an absolute overnight success so here we are my 57th episode as host obviously thousands of episodes going back all the way back to the 1940s how is this episode going to feel different to what's come before well you know i don't want to give away all the little changes we've made, but you know, you can't put the helter before the skelter. So I think, let's just have a little look. I think you're going to be very pleasantly surprised.

Okay. So this is the script you've put together? Yeah, if you want to just read from that, just from the top. Just have faith in the process. Just have faith in it. Okay. This feels good. Okay.

From the team that brought you the smash hit podcast, This American Life and Serial, it's Krill Kingdom. Join me, journalist Bradley Justin Robinson, and my co-host, Billy the Krill. Hello. And learn about the fascinating life of these noble creatures. Whether it's floating aimlessly at the bottom of the sea or floating aimlessly near the surface,

every day is a thrill for a krill. And remember, unlike a dolphin or killer whale, you can't mistreat a krill because krill don't have a soul. And that's scientific fact.

Download Krill Kingdom today, the new podcast from SeaWorld. Hello, and welcome to the Beef and Dairy Network podcast, the number one podcast for those involved, or just interested, in the production of beef animals and dairy herds. The Beef and Dairy Network podcast is the podcast companion to the Beef and Dairy Network website and printed magazine. Now, Melanie, this next bit, I'm not sure about this. I think you should just keep reading it. And I'm joined today by my new co-host, Bimpsy.

Hello, Bimpsy. Bimpsy. Hello, Bimpsy. Bimpsy! Right, Melanie, I've got some questions. Are we stopping there? I've got some questions about Bimpsy. I assume this is to do with the kind of drive to get six to nine-year-old girls. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Bimpsy's tested extremely well with our target market, the six to nine-year-old girls. What is Bimpsypsy i think you should direct that question to your new best friend uh well i just feel like you should explain to the listeners you want this to be a success can you just have a conversation with with bimpsy please uh sure um hi hi bimpsy bimpsy. Bimpsy! Right. Okay. Do you want to get a dialogue going?

A bit of back and forth. Yeah. I just think it just... Yeah, sure. From a PR perspective, you need to feel like there's an energy, there's a friendship developing there because I feel like you're not giving it your... No, I will.

Hey, Bimpsy. Bimpsy! Nice day? Bimpsy. Bimpsy. Nice day. Bimpsy. What have you been doing today, Bimpsy? Bimpsy. That's going to go down an absolute storm. Okay, I'm just going to read the next bit of the script, I think.

Great. This month, while Bimpsy was getting settled in and all warm and snugly in her new treehouse home here at beef and dairy hq i went to speak to artist greg plackett actually sorry this is something else i wanted to talk to you about this interview with greg plackett it was an absolute disaster what do you mean so you set up this interview for me i went and did it yeah he's he is he's hot right now we we struggled for weeks to get him to talk to you he didn't know who you he didn't wasn't interested but we paid a lot of money so we need this to have i mean he's obviously a very famous artist yeah so i can understand why people might be excited to speak

to him but get his name you know if he could endorse i don't think he's going to because this interview didn't go so well that's what i'm saying how about you know he likes meets that's your area no but he doesn't when we set up the interview we we were very clear that it was it was going to be like a friendly back and forth that you were going to agree on a lot of maybe just listen to this and then see what you think i'll just do the script this month i went to speak to artist greg you think. I'll just do the script. This month, I went to speak to artist Greg Plackett, whose latest exhibition at the Tate Modern, Chain, experiments with a future based on so-called plant-based meat.

Greg started by telling me about what drew him to the subject. Bimsy! I grew up on a dairy farm. But, like a lot of young people, I rebelled. And, you know, I still, I don't talk to my father, I don't talk to my mother, I don't talk to really anybody in my family because they continue to participate in something that I think is kind of a irresponsible industry. You know, I know it's something that you are dedicated to, but it is an irresponsible industry in a way that is truly detrimental to the planet. And there was-

Now, before we, sorry, before we go on, I think in order for this interview to take place, we're just going to have to, at this stage, agree to disagree on that point. I would hope at this stage we can, but I would hope at the end of this, I have convinced you otherwise. Why save the planet if it's a planet without any cows on it? Because for me, that isn't the Earth. That's something else.

What if I could give you a planet that technically still had cows? And yes, I'm putting that word in quotes, but they are nonetheless cows. That's the question that my art seeks to ask. Is the cow just this living animal, right, that produces milk, that we can slaughter and we can bring meat from it and feed people? These now, these hormone-filled, miserable animals.

filled, miserable animals. What if I could give you so many of those same experiences, but without the cows? Now, let me just rewind a bit. There's a couple of things for me to address there. Sure. You describe hormone filled cows. Let me ask you, are there any hormones in your body? Oh, of course. The hormones that my body produces. But would you agree that having hormones is good for you? I would agree that the hormones that your body produces. But would you agree that having hormones is good for you? I would agree that the hormones that your body produces are great for you. They are the necessary elements. More of those hormones to be even better. Well, I think that those are not naturally occurring.

And that's, I think, the horror of these kind of Frankenstein animals that we're creating. Okay, I'm going to cut you off there. Sure. Because we are going to have to agree to disagree about this. I agree. Personally, I think climate change is a myth, like the moon landings, like Bernie Sanders. Bernie Sanders is a myth. He doesn't exist or everything he stands for is a myth.

He doesn't exist. Oh, sure. I'm not big on politics. So whether or not that's true it might be so i i don't know but you know i think that climate change is unquestionably uh where do you fall on the flat earth do you believe the earth is flat of course huh that's really well good for you So you're a kind of ball guy. Well, yeah. For me, I believe. Okay. If it's a ball. Sure.

Why couldn't it be a cube? Oh, well, I mean, because it's not. Or an octagon. It's just, it is neither of those. It's not a ball because we think it's a ball. It's a ball because we know it to be a ball. We can see the shape of the Earth's surface. We can see from outer space. we've seen pictures of Earth.

There are two sides on the science for that, aren't there? There genuinely are not. There is just people who think correctly and understand through scientific proof, and then there are, well, wow, this is really, wow. Sorry, are you a scientist or an artist? I forgot. No, sorry, I'm an artist.

Okay, well, then maybe you'll stay in your lane. My understanding is you're not a scientist either. I mean. Well, I'm not a scientist. In terms of? The science of journalism. Oh, okay. Then I'm a scientist of the arts.

Okay, I just want to, there's a bit of tension in here now. And, you know, I didn't think it would go this way, Greg. I think we're going to have to find a way to move on in this interview somehow and talk about your work. Yeah, I would love to. Now, I want to say, before you describe the work, I just want to say, some people accuse this program of being anti-vegetarian, of being anti-vegan.

Sure. I just want to say that isn't the case at all. In fact, I respect vegans. They are some of the few people you can trust not to be eating lamb. Okay, yeah. We have a number of vegan listeners, you know, many of whom want to support the beef and dairy industry but feel they can't ethically. That's their own decision. And some of them I know do still support the industry by buying a lot of milk, a lot of meat, and then simply discarding it and throwing it away.

You know a lot of people who buy milk and meat and throw it away. Yes. Now that's interesting. They want to help the industry, but they don't feel like they can consume those things. Oh, sure. But I would say those people are monsters. Because why not, if you're going to buy the milk and meat, why not? I mean, I'm wandering around your city. You know what I see?

I see a lot of homeless. I see a lot of people, hungry people in need. Why don't those people who are buying milk and meat hand them off to those people in need, donate them? Because those people think it's unethical for a human being to eat meat or milk. They're just trying to support the industry yeah they will often help the homeless by giving them small amounts of money to help them dispose of the meat oh so they use the homeless as their as the people to to just do their to their just to drag the black bags oh so they're buying quite a bit of milk and meat

trash bags big like bin size bags yeah oh wow okay because they respect this great industry that Oh, so they're buying quite a bit of milk and meat. Trash bags. Big, like, bin-sized bags. Yeah. Oh, wow. Okay. Because they respect this great industry that we're all part of. Sure, but it's... And that's something that's... It's an untenable industry. You know, like, it is...

Show me an industry that is tenable. Solar power. Fair enough. Ah, there we go. There we go there we go are you really a flat earther? I don't know it's just like a heat the argument thing

you don't know? what do you mean you don't know? I don't know what do you think happens to let's not go over this argument again sorry see it went terribly and there's more of that to come

I actually think that could that could play well for us I mean what does should we ask what go over this argument again. Sorry, I just... See, it went terribly and there's more of that to come later on. I actually think that could play well for us. I mean, what does... Should we ask what Bimpsy thinks? Bimpsy! Just a positive attitude,

that's all it takes. Greg Plackett is literally anti-beef. Well, you know, you have to accept all different sort of philosophies and walks of life. You're a flat earther,

for goodness sake. I'm not a flat... Don't call me a flat earther. I'm just someone who happens to believe in a flat earth. You're a flat Earth, for goodness sake. I'm not a flat... Don't call me a flat Earth. I'm just someone who happens to believe in a flat Earth. There's a difference, isn't there? Because a flat Earth makes it sound like that's part of my identity as a person. I don't introduce myself that way.

Just if you ask me about what shape I think the Earth is, I'll just say a disc. Oh, Bimsy. Can you just get back to the script, please? We'll just get on with this. Sure. More from that interview later. But now it's time for a new monthly section called Bimpsy's Dream.

Sorry. Yeah. What is this? Well, this is the thing. According to the research, little girls, they love sort of whimsy. They like sort of excitement sparkles you know rainbows in the air it's not all a bit sexist like to assume that a six-year-old girl is interested in a pink whatever that is i think

bimpsey is more than capable of deciding what bimpsey enjoys i don't think bimpsey i think i think bimpsey does not need a man with a mouth and an opinion to tell her what she can and cannot enjoy. Bimpsey! If Bimpsey loves rainbows and... Bimpsey! Then Bimpsey will love rainbows.

Bimpsey! And your oppression is just yet another example of the endless tirade that women and whatever Bimpsey happens to be faces every day okay what what is bimpsy's dream bimpsy's dream is just a little fun adventure that we think is going to resonate really well with the beef loving girls that are going to tune into this podcast and you don't think it's going to alienate my traditional listener base who are mainly listening to this while they plow a field we have calibrated very carefully that it's gonna sit perfectly in the midpoint it will delight the old

listeners it will entrance the new listeners i honestly think it'll fit seamlessly into what this show always has been it's just an elevated sort of version okay give it a just give it a give it a chance okay pimpsy's dream Pimpsy! Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep Oh, Grr! Bimsy! Bimsy! Bimsy! Bimsy! Last year alone, 45 people were bitten by dogs on British farmland. Who will be next?

Will it be you? Or maybe it will be someone you love. Or someone you merely like who definitely doesn't deserve to be bitten by a dog. Dogs, you've got to watch out. They're mainly nice, but sometimes they go a bit loopy. But don't we all? Also watch out for snakes and sharp bits of metal. Bimpsy!

Who is that appealing to? Well, it's interesting you should say, because we knew going in that Bimpsy's dream was going to absolutely be a smash with the six to nine year olds. They love it, they can't get enough, they want the t-shirts, they want the paraphernalia. with the six to nine year olds they love it they can't get enough they want the t-shirts yeah sure yeah but what about you know i'm a little bit worried about my traditional base you're talking you know hard-bitten farmers in their late 50s and 60s working on the hillsides of northern england what are those guys i mean have you tested with them if anything they love it more it has been an absolute revelation you played them that honestly we have got a farmer in yorkshire he has now painted bimpsey on the side of his tractor and he won't get out.

He pretends he's Bimpsey. It's a beautiful, beautiful thing to see. His wife has left him. Unfortunately, she thinks it's very weird. But apart from that, it's honestly, it's going to touch a lot of hearts. Right. Why don't you just, why don't we ask Bimpsey what Bimpsey thinks of it? Bimpsey, what did you think of Bimpsey's dream?

Bimpsey? More after this. Hey, I'm Ineke. And I'm James. And together we are the self-proclaimed wonder twins of podcasting and host Minority Corner. We tackle subjects like LGBTQ topics, pop culture. We tackle subjects like LGBTQ topics, pop culture, and untold histories of American POCs, like the true story of escaped slave-turned-pirate-turned-Navy-man-in-the-Civil-War-turned-Congressman Robert Smalls,

plus current events from our perspective, deep-dive movie and TV reviews. You'll also get awesome book recommendations from their neighborhood-friendly librarian. Don't forget my award-winning Jennifer Hudson impressions. Andson impressions and i'm telling you while never taking ourselves too seriously minority corner because together we're the majority every friday here on maximum fun right here on the script it says we're going to hear more from the interview with greg plackett i'm not sure we have to no i think in terms of the contract we've made with him and how much um profile he has we can we can we have some more of that interview, please? Okay. I asked Greg to explain the thinking behind his exhibition that is currently at London's Tate Modern Gallery.

Here's the thing. What a lot of people I find are realizing as we kind of enter this new era of plant-based meats, Enter this new era of plant-based meats. All of these companies now that are producing very good, very tasty facsimiles that are now being widely used in everything from high-end restaurants all the way down to your fast food, your Burger Kings, your McDonald's. They're all giving you these opportunities and options. I walk around and I see placards outside of businesses that say plant-based burgers here, blah, blah, blah. Everybody's into it. But what I'm hearing anecdotally from people on the street is, I don't like not knowing where that comes from. I don't like not knowing what that is. When I bite into a burger, I'm picturing that cow getting fattened up and then put on a

truck and brought to a facility and a slaughterhouse takes it apart, chops it up. People have now spent so much of their lives imagining that series of events every time they bite into a burger. Part of the unconscious, the Carl Jung's collective unconscious, the Jungian belief that everything we do is participating in a knowledge because we've all been doing it for generations. This idea that when we eat that meat, we are picturing all the steps of how we got from a living being to this meat on our plate. Now. So are you saying when someone takes a bite of a burger, they are consciously thinking

through those steps or that's an unconscious? I think it's an unconscious. I mean, some people probably are conscious because some people are evolved and understand who they are and are able to tap into the collective unconscious. But for most people, it is a faint echo in their mind. For some people, eating meat is an opportunity to feel as though you've conquered an animal. It gives us that frontier existence that we're all still searching for when we were hunter-gatherers. Now, listen, for me, that's fine.

You want to go out. I watch these Alaska shows, Alaska, The Last Frontier, Life Below Zero. All those shows are fetishizing frontier life. This actually reminds me of something that some of the vegans I've been speaking to, many of whom buy the meat and milk and throw it away, they will go to Alaska because they feel like that there's something missing in their life. And they will get a guy to dress up like a bear or a moose. Sure.

And he will run away from them and they'll be firing a Nerf gun at him. And then suddenly they just feel like, oh, I am a humanose. Sure. And he will run away from them, and they'll be firing a Nerf gun at him. Uh-huh. And then suddenly they just feel like, oh, I am a human being. Yeah. And so they're able to fill that hole that was previously filled by eating meat which had been slaughtered. One of those trips,

I don't know if you saw this recently in the news, but one of those trips, while that was happening, they were attacked by a bear. And that is the irony, because a Nerf gun will do very very little against um very little yeah and it was a it was it was really kind of unfortunate for it was like a it was a young vegan family from brooklyn who wanted their kids to experience a little bit

of like their past history and they were all pretty well mauled well let's just say that the the bear had no compunction about eating meat. No, of course not, because keep in mind this, the bear needs to eat as much meat as possible because it's got to go to sleep for five months. You know, and you know when you eat a big meat meal, you really get sleepy, you know? So boom, you got to go get back to your den

and go straight down, put it down. Five months later, you come out, all that fat store, all that stuff, that's kept you alive. Get rid of that fecal plug that's been created in your back passage. Sure. And get on with your life. Absolutely. I mean, we have a lot in common with bears.

Oh, absolutely. But you seem to think that actually our lives are sort of different to bears and that we should be, as we say, using a facsimile of this feeling rather than the real feeling. Let's talk about what it is that your work is doing. My exhibit is called The Chain, right? Because it is that chain of our food consumption that we still feel a connection to and that I find is what people are most uncomfortable with, with these plant-based meats. They just can't picture it. So what I do is I take all of the components that go into plant-based meats, right? Dextrose, soy protein, zinc glutenate, all of the stuff that goes into these delicious

plant-based meats. And I take them in mass volumes and I sculpt cows. Now, when you say cow, you mean a kind of sculpture of a cow? I mean a sculpture of a cow. So it doesn't move or moo or... At this point, it does not move. That is where I'm going. You know, that's a little bit of like where I'm going. Does it have that same thing where you look into a cow's eyes

and you instantly feel really calm? Yeah. Oh, it does have that. Yeah. So I've sculpted these cows and you interact with them the way you would interact with cows at a farm. They're in, you know, a big wide pen with grass. And and if you touch the cow, it seems to react. There's haptic sensors in all the cows. And then you get to follow the cow from where it is into a slaughterhouse. where it is, into a slaughterhouse. And then as you walk through,

it's kind of like going and walking along as your car is getting a car wash, you know? You walk through and you enter into a room where the pieces of your cow are brought out and then cooked right in front of you. And you have the most delicious burger that you've ever had. Now you have rewired your brain to believe that this plant-based burger

has been part of the same exact process that all of your other burgers. It's the same. And you've got Fleetwood Mac on board. They're playing their song, The Chain, throughout. Yes, they are playing their song live for the entirety of... And they're old people now.

I mean, that's hard for them. They're quite old. And, you know, they've recently removed Lindsey Buckingham from the band. I mean, this was a key reason for why he wasn't involved. Yes. He wouldn't do this. Because he was strictly against this specific choice. But for them, think about it this way.

They're old, and it's a lot easier to play a consistent date in one location than go all over the world. So you're saying, in a way, playing for for what, 16 hours a day is actually easier than- Than touring, than being on buses and planes and all that. Mick Fleetwood pulled me aside and he said, listen to me, you've done something amazing here and thank you, you've rescued me from myself. Wow. Yeah. He said, if I had to do this tour, I would have died.

Wow. And thank God I'm here. And they're literally just playing that one song, The Chain, over and over again? It's just The Chain over and over and over again. Christine McVie has lost her mind. I will say that. But I'm not sure she wasn't half crazy to begin with. Sure. And they never attempted just to do, I don't know, a bit of rumors or...

Oh, no. Contractually, they're not allowed to. Right. I am paying them to only play the chain. Right. Yeah. No, no. They tried to play Rhiannon once as we were closing down. And I had to have a very stern conversation with them that was, to be honest, uncomfortable. I imagine Stevie Nicks is the troublemaker in that. Oh, no, she's so sweet. You know, she's got that real witchy energy, you know?

And she's one of those people that really is tapped into the collective unconscious, you know? And she's also, best as I can tell, like, sleepwalking through life. What about the people

who've called you a pervert? Let me be very clear. The cows that I'm sculpting are not alive. So anything that you may have done after hours? Or during hours or anything. What I'm saying is... In front of a school group? Listen, I'm an artist.

I'm an artist first and foremost, right? I'm an educator. Some'm an artist first and foremost, right? I'm an educator. Some have called me a genius. Some have called me a futurist. Listen, understand this. It's people like me, Elon Musk, futurists, people who are looking ahead in time where we're going to be now. In order to do that, we might need to be pushing society's limits, seeing what's happening. And I only mention Elon because he and I were having a conversation at one of his masked parties, let's say. Right, okay. Where he was, I was telling him... Where do those take place, by the way?

Where? International waters. Yeah. So we were talking about my exhibit, and he'd seen it, and it was, he said it was, you know, truly mind-blowing, and reminded him so much of the original bodies exhibit. You know, the skinless... Gunter von Hagen's.

Thank you. Yeah. And he said that he'd had such a mind-expanding experience seeing that, and I had felt the same, but had also felt so turned on by it. You know, for me, that exhibit was... Intellectually turned on?

Sexually turned on? Yes, all of it. So you went to see the Gunter von Hagen's Bodies exhibition, which was lots of preserved corpses, essentially. Correct. But they were sort of cut open

and you could see different parts of the bodies. Yep. And you went to that with Elon Musk. No, no. He and I were just talking about it. You'd both been. We'd seen it at different times. You'd been turned on by it.

Correct. Both intellectually and... And erotically. And erotically, sure. Are you not turned on by the human form? Some, some of them. And in one, I mean, there was a skinless man riding a skinless horse. I mean, this is eroticism at its height. How about this? Let me put it to you this way. When you see an attractive person that you are attracted to, out on the street or something like that, what is your first thought? I'd like

to see that person without their clothes on. Okay. Right? Now, what if you saw a person that you were attracted to without their clothes on? Doesn't it naturally follow I'd like to see this person without their skin on is that really appropriate for an eight-year-old girl a middle-aged pervert talking about being

turned on by a flayed corpse honestly first of all yes and second of all i don't know why you keep addressing questions to me i'm not i'm not your co-host ask your questions to to to bimpsy she's just gonna say bimpsy though isn't she that's all she can say it's not necessarily true bimpsy what did you think bimpsy okay this time around she did yeah yeah bimpsy but and to be honest even if she could speak english which i don't think i really care what she thinks to be honest because she's just a made-up character, like a pink whatever she is. There's nothing wrong with... You don't need to be threatened by Bimpsy. She's here to help you.

Oh, God. Bimpsy! Why am I even calling her Bim... What I'm looking at is an actor in a suit. And why are you even wearing a suit? This is an audio medium. Why are you even dressed as Bimpsy? What's your name?

Bimpsy! You inside the suit, what's your actual name? I don't have you even dressed as Bimpsy? No, what's your name? Bimpsy. No, no, no, no. What's your... You inside the suit. Bimpsy. What's your actual name? I don't have to answer that, Bimpsy. What is your actual name?

Carol. Carol. That's better. For goodness sake. Was this your dream when you decided to become an actor, Carol? To be dressed as whatever you are? No. I...

I don't know.'m honestly it's pathetic how old are you carol 41 would you say acting's working out for you this is a great role this is the best role you've had this could be the role i was once in an advert for a pill that claimed to suppress burps, but I don't actually think it worked very well, because it didn't work on me. Very gassy. I saw you in that, it was very good. Oh, thank you very much.

Don't smile, Carol, as if you're being successful. When you went to drama school, is this what you dreamed of? No, no. All I ever wanted was to play Juliet in Romeo and Juliet. Oh, God. For the Royal Shakespeare Company. Every young actress. Of course, not this, no.

No, I wanted to... Oh, Romeo, Romeo, wherefore art thou, Romeo? Deny thy father and refuse thy name. Sorry, with respect, Carol, no one cares about you doing any of that. So just deny your father, refuse your name. Your name is Bimpsey. All right? All right.

Just don't break character again or I will dock your pay, alright? Yes. What is your name? Juliet. No, it's not... Juliet. You know what your name is. Look at your horns.

Bimpsy. Exactly. Your name is Bimpsy. See what you've... See what I've've done You question the integrity of the character I don't think that's what she's upset about Just give her a pat or something It's her absolute waste of a life Just grab a horn and give her a cuddle

Okay I'm sorry Bimpsy Bimpsy It's good just do more Say nice things about her You smell so, Bimpsy. Bimpsy! It's good, just do more. Say nice things about her. You smell so nice, Bimpsy. Bimpsy! Say something nice about her wings or something.

Oh, your wings! They're like a lovely silver bat. Bimpsy! I don't think this is working. It is working. She's getting louder. I think she's getting happier. Bimpsy! Bimpsy! Bimpsy! Bimpsy! Bimsy! Bimsy! Bimsy! Bimsy! Bimsy! Bimsy! Can't you just be sweet?

Bimsy? Bimsy? Bimsy? Would you like a spoonful of mince? Bimsy! She doesn't want a spoonful of mince. Carol's a vegetarian. Why on earth did you... Carol is so ill-suited for this job. Carol is the best that we can do, all right?

We tried other people. Of course we did. We got in touch with Ted Danson. He said, talk to me when you've got the grain. Carol, pull yourself together, all right? Samson! Simpsons! Thanks to your love, 45 people will be as high as

in British film land. Bloody hell, Carol. Sorry. Right. Back to our big interview with the artist Greg Plackett. I put it to Greg that if his ideas were to become popular, it would spell the end of the beef and dairy industries. Listen, I'm not here to say that beef and dairy is going away, right? It's not. It's not going to go away forever. It can't.

It just can't. We won't be able to do that. But do I think it needs to be pulled back? Yes. But do I want those farmers, those slaughterhouses, those slaughterhouse workers, those people who are in every piece of that chain of production to lose their jobs? Categorically not. So why not have farms of plant-based cows? have farms of plant-based cows, bring them to slaughterhouses, functioning slaughterhouses that are just retrofitted slightly, that can have all of these same modes of production. Everybody gets to keep their job, but what's coming out is plant-based meat. So I'm not trying to destroy an industry. I'm just trying to say, what if the industry remained as big as it is, but it was less about meat and like what I call quote unquote living

cows and instead had, let's say 50%, let's say 70% plant cows. And these plant cows, can they be milked? Oh, of course. Here's the thing. So many charitable organizations in this world are buy a cow for a family in need, right? But why not buy your family a cow? Why not say to your children, oh, hey, little Davey and little Tilly.

How do you know their names? I do Tilly. How do you know their names? I do my research. How do you know my children's names? I've never... I'm just saying. I've never said that publicly. Here's what I'm saying. I would like to gift to you and Davey and Tilly and your wife, Margaret, a plant-based cow.

You get to introduce them to that cow. You get to let them get to know that cow. You can milk it if you want. It's your cow. You can do whatever you want to it. Right. When you said whatever you want, you raised your eyebrows there in a kind of saucy kind of way. No, I mean, if I did, it was unintentional. But what all I mean to say is

for this cow, the cow that I'm giving to you, just so you get to experience the whole of it, right? Come to the exhibit, follow your cow, let Tilly give it a name. You and Margaret can talk about what you're going to make. Please stop using their names in that way. Don't worry about it. You can, and, but you can also, you can decide what do i want to do with this cow now that's pretty interesting again i want to reiterate this and i can't be more clear it is not a living thing i am gifting you one of my cows i really wouldn't like one of those so well you can don't worry about that too. It's already been delivered to your house. I had it delivered while we were here in the booth because I knew you wouldn't be there.

How do you know where my house is? Oh, it's okay. Margaret, I'm certain, is there to pick it up. I saw a notice on my phone that says Margaret picked it up. So I bet if you check your phone, you've got some message of some sort. Oh, God. She sent a photograph. Oh, God. Oh, a photograph. Oh, God.

Oh, look at that. The kids love it. Look at it. Tilly's arms are around the cow's neck. Davey is sucking from its... That's disgusting. This is already going even better than I can imagine. They already are so attached to this thing.

Yes, perfect. Perfect. This is exactly what I want, right? So, please, spend the weekend with the cow. Do whatever you want to. Don't do the eye thing when you say whatever you want. Then on Monday, a truck is going to come. It's going to pick the cow up.

It's going to pick your family up. And you're all going to drive to the Tate Modern. And it's going to go through the slaughter process, right? Right. And then Davey and Tilly, sorry, my children. Yep. Are going to watch their beloved pet get... You're a sick...

I encourage you to let them name it. I encourage you to let them name it, and I encourage you to also remind them in the months to come, when you're having burgers, when you're having steaks, when you're having beef stew, whatever it is you make with this plant-based meat, I encourage you to remind them that this came from their cow. Now that, that's art.

All right. Greg Plackett, your exhibition runs in the Tate until the middle of June. Yep. Thank you again for having me. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I was going to say thank you, but... Thank you.

You're welcome. You're welcome for the cow. You're welcome for the experience. You're welcome. And please send my love to Margaret and Tilly and Davy. Sure, you don't... By the way, you don't... Do you know my name?

Get the hell out of here. You're a monster. Get the hell out of here. You're a monster. Greg's exhibition, The Chain, runs at the Tate Modern until June. Is Carol okay? Just wrap this up.

We need to talk to Bimpsy. Just get Bimpsy back on. Okay. Hey, Bimpsy. Bimpsy. Hey, did you enjoy that interview with the artist, Greg Blackett? Oh, Bimpsy. Yeah, okay, great.

And are you going to go and see the exhibition in the Tate Modern? Oh, Bimsy, Bimsy. Pizza! It's really hard to do. I find this very hard. I don't think Carol's very good. Is there any chance we can re-record this with Ted Danson? Look, we've talked to Danson.

He will not be in the same room as you. Unless that room contains tons and tons of grain. I'll start with Carol then. Thanks, Carol. Great job. Thanks for the opportunity. Shut up, Carol. So, that's all we've got time for this month.

But if you're after more beef and dairy news, get over to our website now, where you can read all the usual stuff, as well as our off-topic section, where Bimpsy describes the best ways to secure your home against intruders. Bimpsy! So, until next time, be found!

Thanks to Natasha Hodgson, Jesse Thorne, Lucy Farratt, Jason Mantzoukas, and Tim Bick. Hello, this is Amy Mann. And I'm Ted Leo. And we have a podcast called The Art of Process. We've been lucky enough over the past year to talk to some of our friends and acquaintances from across the creative spectrum to find out how they actually work. So I have to write material that makes sense and makes people laugh. I also have to think about what I'm saying to people.

If I kick your ass, I'll make you famous. The fight to get LGBTQ representation in the show. We weirdly don't know as many musicians as you would expect. I really just became a political speechwriter by accident. Realizing that I have accidentally pulled my pants down. Listen and subscribe at MaximumFun.org or wherever you get your podcast. It's like if the guinea pig was complicit in helping the scientist.