Beef And Dairy Network - Episode 95 - Dafydd, Part 2

Episode Date: March 27, 2023

It's MaxFunDrive! To support the show, go to maximumfun.org/joinMike Bubbins and Ed Gamble join in for the second part of this two-part saga. Eli Roberts. Chimps. Skullduggery.Stock media provided by Soundrangers/Pond5.comMusic credits courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com :Rune Dale / A Call From The WildSleeping Vines / I BelongTrevor Kowalski / Calm Above CloudsJojn Bjork / The Last Of Our KindLuella Gren / The Ghost Pirate ShipChristogger Moe Ditlevsen / Born SinisterStephan Rozier / DaughterGolden Anchor / Surrender To MadnessDream Cave / Choirs Of War

Hello, this episode is a part two, so if you've not listened to part one, which is the previous episode, Davith, part one, then listen to that one first. Also, it's week two of MaxFunDrive, which is the two-week period where shows on the Maximum Fun network, such as this one, ask their audiences whether they would consider supporting them. Your support keeps this show going and I want to say a huge thank you to everyone who already does this. If you're considering it, why not go to MaximumFun.org forward slash join. Thank you. Enjoy the show. The Beef and Dairy Network is sponsored by Zaproom Pro, the new million volt cattle brush from Mitchells. If it's not Mitchells, get back in the truck. Zaproom Pro isn't just perfect for grooming and disciplining your cattle.

Lash a headstrong and disruptive farm worker with Zaproom Pro isn't just perfect for grooming and disciplining your cattle. Lash a headstrong and disruptive farm worker with Zap Room Pro and watch their habitual disobedience simply spin away. This treatment will also leave their skin silky soft and red. For 10% off your first Zap Room Pro, simply use the code TUTTATUTTATOUCHME. had to touch me. Hello and welcome to the Beef and Dairy Network podcast, the number one podcast for those involved or just interested in the production of beef animals and dairy herds. The Beef and Dairy Network podcast is the podcast companion to the Beef and Dairy Network website, as well as the printed magazine, brought to you by Zaproom Pro. We've been enjoying the Zaproom Pro here in the office,

but it's worth knowing that if you plug it into a regular plug and turn it up all the way, it will cause a 24-hour blackout, reaching as far as Aylesbury. Aylesbury! Back in part one, we heard about how the Royal Society for the Protection of Animals took away Eli Roberts' security chimps, and also how Philip Seastrom had found happiness volunteering at a chimp sanctuary. I wonder what will happen next? I wonder what will happen next. So I'd been working in the chimp sanctuary for about a year or so.

And we found out one morning that the RSPCA were bringing in a whole new shipment of chimps. A chimpment, as Jan likes to say. How common is that? Like how many chimpments are you getting a year the the it tends to be more of a trickle you know because it's it's mainly these showbiz chimps so they tend to come from private donors or from the hollywood studios or from uh itv and we very rarely get a call from the rPCA saying they're bringing in actual chimps who have been through some sort of trauma, you know? You say actual chimps, they're all chimps, but these chimps are not showbiz chimps is what you're saying. They're civilian chimps. Civilian chimps is exactly what I mean, yeah.

That's a lovely way of putting it. Civilian chimps. We very rarely get, you know, your bog standard chimps. And I guess when you get that news that some normal chimps are coming in, you've got to prepare those more showbiz chimps to meet these kind of more unwashed chimps. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Is that something that's going to be a problem?

You do have to ease them in because we've had it before where a civilian chimp has turned up and seen the site that greets him, the performances, the juggling, Daniel Radcliffe. And they will feel so bad. They will have such an overwhelming lack of self-esteem that they will feel the need to get their own talent, even though that's not been their aim in life. They're just chimps. Right.

They'll start trying to sing the the celebrity chimps unfortunately at that point will form a sort of jury because we do have the simon cowell replacement chimp from american idol so he'll hitch his trousers up and he'll sit in the middle and he'll be he'll be the main so you end up with a kind of like britain's got talent style exactly exactly yeah so these poor chimps that that really have no have never been taught anything and have no prospect of being a professional and they'll just stand there trying to do this talent that's heartbreaking it really is and it's devastating and what will normally happen is of course they don't have a talent. They can't just pull one out of thin air. So, you know, they'll try and do impressions. They'll try and sing a song, like I say, they'll do a little dance. And then it will be three of the celebrity chimps' jobs to hold up bananas in crosses in the style of one of those shows to say, you know, you're out. those shows to say you know you're out and then the poor civilian chip will be devastated and then all the celebrity chimps will then just beat them to death wow okay so wow okay so you really do have

to be careful then when you're introducing the the non-celebrity chimps in with the celebrity chimps yes you almost have to superficially strip the celebrity chimps of their talents you just have to make them look like normal chimps for some it's easier said than done we just have to hide daniel radcliffe because there's no getting away from the fact he really does look like the man right but for the rest of them you're taking away the straw boaters the bow ties gone spanker jackets yeah yeah penny farthing gone gone gone you can't even have a hint of that because these celebrity chimps really do like the limelight so they will try and perform at every opportunity so we just need to introduce the civilian chimps as if they are being introduced to a normal civilian chimp sanctuary so as you say this is normally a

trickle of new chimps that come in you can give proper time to a new chimp coming in you can prepare them you can prepare the rest of the chimps you can this wasn't the case this time though wasn't it because uh i believe it was almost 50 chimps it was a truck full yeah it was 50 chimps a truck full from from the rspca um they well they use hermes to transport them oh the um the the parcel company yes the parcel company hermes yeah um who i believe have since had to rename now to every yeah because of this oh okay it's the first time that they'd had to transport um any wildlife really i don't know why the rspca decided to use them but at least go for parcel force or dhl or there's loads of other people a bit more reliable someone a bit more reliable because when when the hermes as it was then driver arrived uh we've got him on the ring

doorbell he didn't even ring the bell he just threw all the chimps over the fence obviously when you do take that kind of delivery you can stipulate your safe space where things can be left if you're not there often you you might say, just leave it in my green bin. Yeah. Things like that. Had you said that? Did you say, I'll just throw them in? The directions were too long, I think, for the delivery driver

because there's so many chimps that you couldn't fit two maximum in the green bin. So we'd had to put two in the green bin, three in the big main bin, four under the hedge, five or six in the gas meter box at the front were you getting next door to take any in or next door is a is a butcher that we're not necessarily confident would look after the chimps properly let's just say okay understand yeah they they um i've been in there before to try and buy something for my tea um and they do just advertise everything as meat and have you ever asked them about the provenance of what they're selling yeah i say what what meat is that and they say and they shrug and they go meat

that kind of place yeah so i'm not i'm i'm not gonna have the hermes driver drop off any chimps there okay so in reality what happened driver drop off any chimps there. Okay, so in reality what happened was that all the chimps were then just dumped over the fence. Does that mean then they weren't able to go through that acclimatisation process, they were just in there? Yeah, it certainly cut it short. I've seen the CCTV footage and yeah, it makes for quite harrowing viewing. Yeah, it's pretty harrowing because obviously one of the only people working there that day was Jan.

Now, Jan was sat at the front desk, as she always is. And just to be clear, you weren't there that day. This was your day off. This was my day off. I take one day off a week. And Jan was sat at the front desk

awaiting the delivery from Hermes. I mean, can i just i just just before we go on i do have to address something that has come up in some of the reporting the suggestion that jan actually was listening to a true crime podcast called we wikipedia your murder that she'd become obsessed with and that was the reason that she missed the delivery and it was actually her fault just well that's been bubbling up online i think it's worth me airing that i mean if you look at the ring doorbell footage you'll you'll see that

the homies driver does not ring the bell yes there was some efforts from him to knock on the door he could see jan through the the big plate glass window and jan did have her big headphones on it's correct and she was utterly engrossed she loves a true crime podcasters jan or did so in a way some people are saying well she's very much the author of her own fate i think what's wonderful is you know we'll get on to what happens to jan briefly but i think what's wonderful is yes she when she perished she was listening to her favorite true crime podcast but do now bear in mind that she is an episode of that same true crime podcast and she would have liked that is that what you're saying

she would have loved that she would have been thinking i think as as it was happening to her i guess you'd be thinking like is this a murder well i think we felt like it was happening to her. I guess you'd be thinking like, is this a murder? Well, I think we felt like it was a murder as well. Did the chimps know truly what they were doing? Or did they think they were, you know, say, ripping a pumpkin out of the ground? Which they would do naturally in the rainforest. They would do naturally, you know, around, same as the rest of us, October time.

They go to a pumpkin farm and they pull out a big pumpkin for decoration. And it did, I mean, certainly some of the footage that you can see online, they do look like they're pulling a pumpkin out of the ground. Poking eye holes. Poking eye holes, drawing in a big smile. I don't know where they found that candle but they really do wrench they wrench like they're trying to get roots away did they did they think they were getting a pumpkin or did did they you know knowingly

commit a murder so as you say you know jan's lost her life um was that a result of the new was it the new chimps doing that or was that the celebrity chimps doing that we think it was the new chimps i mean it was but it was the whole environment they the the new chimps stormed in um absolutely livid about the way they'd been delivered they tried to stake their territory essentially you know and all of these celebrity chimps you must understand have been they've been raised with quite the lifestyle they're used to having a lot of yes chimps around them they're not used to these these angry rspca hermes chimps so i think they just cowered i think it was the it was it was the angry new chimps who very much decided to stake their claim by um well ripping jan's head off

scooping out the inside and sticking a candle in her mouth with jan fully pumpkin patched philip took on the leadership of the sanctuary and found himself with a turbulent situation to deal with it was absolute chaos there was obviously a lot of cleaning up to do we had two warring groups of chimps um the new the new lot would not integrate you know they really were and are some of the most violent and reactionary chimps i've ever seen in my life many people listening would um assume actually that just any chimp you'd get is is a pretty violent animal right pretty dangerous pretty violent but you're saying that these chimps are sort of that plus a bit they're kind of they're even worse

than the sort of the base level chimp way worse than the base level chimp these chimps not only are violent but seem to be ordered within themselves. They're a gang. I see. But there's nothing we can say or do to stop them acting out their horrible will. Aside from the unrelenting violence, the other unusual thing about the new chimpanzees was their diet. These new chimps would only eat meat. Only meat. So it would be regular trips to the mystery butcher next door to buy meat from him, and the chimps absolutely just loved that meat.

That would be the only time we could really keep them quiet or calm is when they were chowing down on a bucket of meat. Chimpanzees in the wild will eat some meat. I think they're omnivorous but they will they will supplement that with with fruit and vegetables and roots and these ones are just eating meat pure meat atkins chimps they would only only eat meat and i can't quite tell you how in shape these chimps are. Ripped chimps.

Ripped chimps. Six packs, the works. Some of them had quite distinctive tattoos as well. Teardrops, things like that. Just classic gang stuff, basically. Your classic gang stuff. So here we go. Keep the blindfold on for now.

And then we get in there. We can take it off. This is the war room. Here we go. Eli took me into his war room, a concrete bunker deep underground, which he built shortly after the RSPCA's army commandeered his chimpanzees. Wow. Gosh, can I take the blindfold off?

Yeah, take it off. There's six-foot-thick walls here. This is reinforced concrete. I've got an 800-g uh 800 gallon lead lined water tank uh i've got enough food here to last approximately three or four years so all of this is this because there's always that chance the rspca could come back is that what you're worried about they could come back and i'm always minded of things i think if he who uh fails to prepare prepares to fare in a siege situation which there's not beyond the rspca to to if they if they come across uh fortified uh opponents they will

uh often use siege tactics i thought it was important that i was able to weather out any sort of siege so this is it's it's two things it's a it's a It's a war room in as much as I can conduct operations here, but also it is a bunker where I can survive and outlive, you know, outfight and outlive my opponents is the idea. And so the first order of the day, I guess, was get those chimps back. And so am I to imagine that the plan was to take the RSPCA on much as they'd come to your house, it was time to go to their house?

Yeah, I mean, very much so. I'd been to the company's house and found out the register office of the RSPCA, their plan was originally to take my chimp army with me up to London and fight fire with fire, very much so. Oh, so you were going to get more chimps then to restock? I was going to almost, in the old days, of course, if you were going to repel raiders

on the way through villages, you would recruit locals to come and fight for you. And the plan was to make my way to London via various zoos. I see. So there's, of course, I was going to start in West Wales

at Anna Ryder Richardson's Welsh Zoo, of course, and then traveling through past the old Hawkins Centre in Barry. There's no longer a Cardiff Zoo, but there's various swans and things on various lakes in Cardiff. Wild animals, birds, basically an animal army. Of course, Bristol Zoo being one of the main staging posts on the way.

Bristol Zoo, and then ended up at the London Zoo, of course. And then me and my legion of animals and birds to descend upon RSPC headquarters and demand return of the chimps. And looking around in the war room here, it's clear that that's what you were doing because there's maps, there's every zoo in the UK is shown on this map up here.

Yeah. And you've got a list there of the kind of animals you want to recruit there. Yeah, well, it's like I said, it's all about strategy. I was determined and resolved to not be out-thought again. So when you're planning an army, of course, one is reminded of Hanover, back in the days of Carthage, of course, who used elephants,

who were very much the tank of the day, you know? Because, yeah, but next to me here, there's a thing saying hawk squadron. The thing about a hawk is they're very, very clever animals, very, very clever birds. They're very fast. They're very elusive. And they can carry small charges. You can attach explosives to a hawk on very much a sort of kamikaze run.

Like a drone, like a drone, except rather than deliver a payload and then return to you, a hawk is the payload. Yeah. You know, I call them my kamikaze hawks and they were prepared to die in the course. So yeah, very, very reliable to hawk as well and easy to train, you know,

get a big glove and some meat and that's your hawk train, yeah. And of course, you know, I'm just thinking about it now, if you were to put together such an army, it's kind of the RSPCA's Achilles' heel, isn't it? Because they don't, as you said earlier, they don't want to kill animals. Very much. You've heard of the Operation Human Shield, of course.

This was very much Operation Animal Shield, where I, as a human being, would be surrounded by a phalanx of animals. At the front would be the big boys, you know, the elephants, the rhinoceros, hippopotamus, et cetera. The quicker animals on the flank, of course, I would employ greyhounds, cheetahs to take the flanks. And then

bringing up the rear would be my most trusted animals. So more chimps, of course, other members of the simian order, baboons, macaques. And of course, my own version of the micro drone, of course, the mosquitoes.

Take a few bin bags full of mosquitoes with me. Of course, a pelican as well, a very good mosquito delivery system. You know, if you load up a pelican's beak with mosquitoes, of course, your pelican will get about 400,000, 500,000 mosquitoes in the beak. Because they're very much,

the pelican is a long distance bird, not particularly adept at fighting, but what they can do is their delivery system. So just like where you would take maybe a larger, one of the larger aircraft of the Second World War, maybe a Lancaster, not a great fighting machine, but a great delivery machine, you know, with paratroops, whatever. So the pelican was very much a delivery system. so the pelicans would be loaded up with the mosquitoes of course uh the pelicans would uh would would lead the attack so that they would go in first

with the mosquitoes and then of course you bring in the hawks and the and the bigger animals then and of course behind all that you know several several uh lines of animals behind there would be me coordinating coordinating the attack so you'd very would be me coordinating the attack. So you'd very much be behind the lines kind of officer class? Behind the lines sat a strider zebra. And then this was a zebra in the sort of the more rural areas.

As we got into the high rise areas, as we got past the sort of M25 into the middle of London, of course, then I would dismount and that's when I would scale one of the giraffes. In the end, we had to separate the celebrities and the civilian chimps, although even to call them civilians,

they were terrorists. My main concern at that point was that there was not a lot of place for that anger that these civilian chimps actually had to go. They couldn't bully the celebrities. And I was quite concerned because there was a little baby chimp who'd arrived with them in the Hermes order. And they were just, they were neglecting him. They weren't looking after him.

It felt like they were trying to harden him up. the fact is no one no one was looking after him and we'd try and we'd try and feed him of course we'd you know leave out bowls of uh of ready etc and by the time the baby chimp got there the other chimps would have gobbled it down so what i decided to do was take the baby chimp home with me to live in my house with me the safest place for him so you'd you'd bring it up as your son as my as my chimp son yeah now in in these kind of cases of course there are ethical concerns can we say? Yeah. Whether a chimp should be brought up in a human household.

You know, there are old instances of this happening. You know, scientists in the 70s trying to teach them sign language and trying to teach them to speak and all this kind of thing. There was, of course, the scientist who had sex with a dolphin. So that's at the front of people's minds when these things happen. Well, I'd just like to say, I don't really know why you brought the dolphin up.

No, no, you're right. Yeah, that wasn't necessarily that fair of me. No, that's not really a similar situation. Yes, there were some ethical concerns that I shouldn't be bringing a baby chimp home to live with my son, especially as that's what I started telling people. I'm bringing this chimp home to live with my son. I think it's the live as my son bit, maybe, that people...

If you just said, oh, I'm looking after this chimp for a while in my house, people might say, oh, okay. Yeah, that's not what was happening. I was taking the baby chimp home to live as my son. I think the ethical issues really come when you're taking a chimp as a pet. That's always what I've thought. So what you were doing was more ethical? Much more ethical. I'm taking a chimp home to live as my equal, as my offspring, not as my pet.

I just really saw this as an opportunity. All of the horrible things that I've seen that have been perpetrated by Eli Roberts, I really started to be quite down on humanity. And just this opportunity to take a baby chimp and craft it into the purest expression of humanity that I could master was too difficult to pass up. This went on for about six months, and it was tricky.

It's tricky raising a chimp baby. You know, I almost thought that maybe the way chimps age, perhaps we were going through some tricky teenage times when I got him. He's quite petulant, a petulant little chimp baby. But it just starts to get more and more violent. You know, I'd be reading him a bedtime story need tear a chunk of my hair out that sort of thing right and obviously your whole goal is to create this kind of pure human that

that is full of love really more than anything else and not violence yeah but it's beginning to act up does that make you think actually is impossible, what I've tried to do? I didn't think that for a long time. I thought, all I need to do is love bomb this chimp. So every time, I would do something loving in return. He pulls out a chunk of your hair. Another parent might scold the child, might say, what are you doing?

Don't do that again, and tell them off. You're not doing that. No. Kiss on the head the head someone say you're rewarding that behavior then no what i'm doing there is i'm showing him the loving version of what he just did so he's ripped a chunk of my hair out i'm kissing him on the head okay he's punched me in the face while i'm in the bath i stroke his little face he shits in my mouth while I'm in the bath. I stroke his little face. He shits in my mouth while I'm asleep. I make him an omelette. Okay.

But this strategy doesn't begin to bear fruit. No, not at all. If anything, I think it was winding him up. So the violence just escalated further and further and further to the point where it almost seemed like he was becoming one of the chimps I'd worked so hard to take him away from. So I decided to do some investigating because we didn't really know where these chimps had come from. We knew they'd come from the RSPCA, but when I requested some more details from the RSPCA after my son became quite violent towards me, they said no. They said it was the chimp's privacy.

We couldn't request those records about where they'd come from. So I had to dig a little deeper to find out where they'd come from. The chimps had some interesting tattoos, like I say, and so a little bit of Google image reverse searching on those tattoos did lead me to a culprit. They'd come from the compound of Eli Roberts. Where they'd been working as security guards? Yeah.

And what brilliant security guards? Yeah. And what brilliant security guards they must have been. Frankly. Absolutely ruthless. And when you found that out, did everything begin to make sense? All of their behaviour began to make sense. Their attitude

began to make sense. Just the way they held themselves. And it begins to answer some questions about your son yeah the way my son was behaving the way this training had kicked in he'd clearly been trained from very early on in life but it's almost like a sort of slow release training program where they hit a certain age and then everything kicks in you know and they don't even know what they're doing a bit like the born identity but with them a chimp and i thought right well that's that's it i've just got to get i've i've got to get this chimp out of my house i've made a horrible mistake

philip made the discovery that the chimps were from eli roberts compound whilst doing research at the library section of his local beef information centre Upon learning that his chimp son had originally been reared by Eli Roberts he rushed back to his home I got back and it was too late He'd absolutely torn the place apart The house was barely standing. I know a lot of my neighbours thought it was some sort of gas explosion

but it was just a slow deconstruction at the hands of the chimp. And I don't know how he did this but he'd gone to the local cemetery and dug up Jan's body and popped her on a little footstool that I have in my front room.

No head. I don't know what happened to the head, but the candle was just sticking out of the neck. She looked like a birthday cake. Well, so the chimp had propped up her corpse in your house? Yeah, in my house

on the footstool, sat there with a candle sticking out of her. I don't know how the chimp knew where Jan was buried. I'm assuming that's some sort of sense of smell thing, but it really was. I mean, I was angry about the house, but to find the decaying body of Jan in my front room really was the final straw. So at this point, while I was staring at Jan's body, I heard a noise.

And I turned around and my son was stood in the doorway holding a pizza cutter and had a look in his eyes that I'd not seen in his eyes before. And I thought, I think he's going to try and chop my head off with that pizza cutter. And I couldn't really think of the loving thing I could do in response to that. More after this. More after this.

Hello, me again. So it's MaxFunDrive. What's that then? So the Maximum Fun Network, which this podcast is part of and has been part of now since 2016? Incredibly, I've been making a podcast about beef for that long. And the reason I've been able to do that is because the show and all shows on the network

are supported by the listener. And yes, we run one ad an episode. I'm slash beef. But I'll never be more than that. The idea really is that we don't have to run loads of ads. The vast majority of our funding comes from you, the listener.

People who like the show enough to kick in a few bucks as i believe an american might say i did already talk about this of course in last week's show so i will keep this brief but maybe you know last week you know i was telling you about max fun drive and you were thinking yeah maybe i should sign up and support the podcast but you know i've listened to it for a few years i really like it i look forward to it coming out maybe i should maybe I should sign up and support the podcast. You know, I've listened to it for a few years. I really like it. I look forward to it coming out. Maybe I should. Maybe I should throw Beef and Dairy Network some money, you know? But then you didn't because, you know, the doorbell went

and there was a package for next door and they said, will you take it in? And you said, yeah, okay. But then you thought, oh, no, but actually I'm actually away now tomorrow. So their parcel's essentially going to be kidnapped in your house for a week because you're um going away on a camping trip to a wooded area and then when you get back a week later they say hang on why have you waited this long to give me my parcel and you're like well i've been away in a wooded area with my family and friends, sleeping under canvas. As regards to this

parcel, I thought I was being a good neighbour by taking it in, but I just didn't think, and now actually your parcel's... Oh, what? It needs refrigeration. It's drugs. You need to stay alive. You've died. You've died. Oh, God. So how are you able to speak to me now that you're dead? Oh, you're talking to me from beyond the grave gosh well at least you've got that haven't you you can chat to your wife or whatever oh you can only haunt me because i'm the cause okay uh okay well i'm i'm a busy guy i'm not going to want to chat that often i'm going to say so no i don't no no i don't feel a responsibility actually to chat to you no i no i don't think it is my fault well i'd be taking it up with the post office for a start anyway look listen i'm in the middle of sorry no i think you're a prick

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Eli spent months planning his assault on RSPB headquarters with his army of zoo animals. However, the plan was never carried out. I asked Eli why he abandoned that tactic. Well, very simply put, it looked great on paper. You know, I was very, very up for doing it, and I was very keen, and the animals, I think, would have been keen as well. All comes down to the sheer logistics of it,

not least of which, of course, is the sheer time it would take to train the animals to perform correctly. You're talking about sort of, for the brighter animals, like the cheetahs, probably two or three years. For the thicker animals, for instance pelicans, for five years. So, you know the old saying that revenge is a dish best served cold, of course.

That isn't true, right? Revenge is a dish best served piping hot. I wanted instant gratification. You know, I think it was very, very important to strike while the iron was hot. I didn't have time to spend five years training animals. Well, you'd have lost

five years of Davids. Well, exactly. By the time I got Davids out, you know, he would have been sort of like in his late teens in chimp years.

You know, and then you'd have had a girlfriend and he'd be wanting a life of his own. He might have started smoking already. Exactly.

So I didn't want to miss those key moments. So it was very important that I acted quickly. So I sat back, what would those key moments. So it was very important I acted quickly. So I sat back, what would Oli like doing now? What's the best thing to do? And of course, like so many things in life,

it comes down often to an individual level. So mano a mano, as it were. And in this case, mano a womano. The head of the RSPCA, was a woman called Jane Palm. I looked her up, company's house, all the information

was freely available, found out her home address, and I took much more direct measures. Despite being the commander in chief of the world's ninth biggest standing army, Jane Palm was living totally unprotected on a residential street in Wimbledon. So when I got to the house where Jane lives, and I turned up at the house and Jane came to the door, of course, I looked terrified because I think she realised immediately who she was dealing with.

So she knew who you were? Well, yeah, she was aware of me, of course, from her planet. And she saw the face and she knew who she was dealing with. And it's amazing what you can achieve with a can-do attitude, which I mentioned before. And I think the scariest person in the room always is the one who thinks he's got nothing to lose. I lost david of

course i'd lost my chimps i'd lost my cock and balls and a man in that situation is a desperate man and she realized this so i use that on my advantage i mean i knew that i knew that in addition to uh to having a phd in in military operations that she was actually an undergraduate in in persian history uh oxford university very very intelligent woman and you think is that where a PhD in military operations, that she was actually an undergraduate in Persian history. Oxford University, very intelligent woman. And you think, is that where she learned about war tactics? I think you could see the way that they would attack was very much grounded in ancient tactics.

I noticed some of the techniques of the Carthaginians. I noticed some of the Romans, some Greek in origin, some Turkish, Mesopotamian um i knew for a fact she had a soft spot for the persian empire and i thought i could use that to my advantage i'm a well i'm a well-read man i always have been uh people see they see all eli and think that i can be two-dimensional this uh they they think that at their peril because i'm i learner, I'm not just an educator I am always learning my ears are open, my eyes are open

I'm a sponge and I thought, I know, let's fight fire with fire so I told Jane that unless David of course and the rest of the Chimp Army were returned to me forthwith that she would be a victim of scaphism scaphism.

Scaphism? Scaphism, yeah. Right, and is that... I'm sorry, I don't know... Well, scaphism is an ancient... and Jane knew this straight away because she could see the fear in her eyes, and she knew I wasn't joking. Scaphism, of course, the torture of the boats would be where you would take two rowing boats.

I suppose in these days it would be the sort of thing you'd find on a public pond or lake. You'd lay the person in the bottom boat. Of course, you put the top boat on top of them. You're exposing just their limbs and their heads. And then you would cover the face with honey and the limbs with honey as well. And you'd pour honey inside the boat. And then you'd leave them there, of course, and you make sure they're always facing the sun.

And insects and various creatures will begin to avail themselves of the honey. You force-feed the person who's being tortured. And, of course, the human body being what it is, you know, once they've been fed, you need to use the toilet, of course, but you're stuck in a boat, so what can you do? So you end up having to

basically defecate and urinate inside the boat, you know, and you leave the body there for a week or two or three or four or five or six or seven, and eventually you're lying in your own filth and various vermin and parasites, and you're essentially eating from the inside out, you know, just lining your own filth. By parasites and insects? Yeah, yeah, parasites, insects, rodents, whatever really, whatever's passing.

But, I mean, it works. Just the thought of it worked, you know, because I could see the look on Jane's face. And she said, you're scoffing at me. I said, yeah, oh, yeah, believe me, it works. Just the thought of it worked, you know, because I could see the look on Jane's face, and she said, Scafism? No, I said, yeah, oh, yeah, believe me, yeah, no problem. Before I could say Mithridates, of course, who was the original sufferer of Scafism, thanks to, I believe it was Atasurges, I think,

the second, as far as I remember. I think he was taking revenge for Mithridates killing his brother, of course, Silas the Younger. There's no motivator as strong in this world as fear. So when she was threatened with the Scarfism, of course, she couldn't wait to give me the coordinates of where they were. And lo and behold, it was a chimp sanctuary. They were actually being kept against their wills in a chip sanctuary. So he's quite close to me now with the pizza cutter.

He's nodding and laughing and pointing at poor Jan the birthday cake. And then I just heard a gigantic crash to the side of us, and there's barely any of the wall of the house left, but what there is left is absolutely obliterated, and I turn my head, and there is Daniel Radcliffe. Now, when you say Daniel Radcliffe, do you mean Daniel Radcliffe the chimp or Daniel Radcliffe the actor? It's such a blur that I'm not quite sure.

All I know is that one of the Daniel Radclifes has stood there with a look in his eyes that I've never seen him have before. And he's a good actor, but this was for real. Right. And he came hurtling towards us. And at that point I'm panicking. I'm thinking, is it all chimps for themselves? Has he come to join in with you all it has he come to join in with your has he come to join in exactly as you hear that there's a halloween pumpkin head happening and he wants a bit of it you know yeah he's spent a lot of his

life living in quite a sheltered way maybe finally he's realized the way of the chimp and he he wants to pull my head off like a big pumpkin but it became clear pretty rapidly that he was there to back me up. So I thought, here comes Radcliffe. Is he going to be able to handle this? Because he's not really known for his action roles. I don't think he's done an action film, not that I can think of. No, I don't think many people would consider Harry Potter

an action film towards the end, I suppose. Woman in Black is obviously, there's peril involved, but it's not that kind of thing. So I was slightly worried. He didn't look hugely intimidating. He looked determined, but he didn't look intimidating. And did your son look intimidated by the presence of Daniel Radcliffe?

Oh, my son was not bothered at all. You know, I don't think these civilian chimps, when they were being trained by Eli, ever saw films, so he wasn't even starstruck. He just didn't seem bothered. At this point, I thought Daniel Radcliffe was going to come over and physically aid me, but he lifted a whistle to his lips that he was keeping in the pocket of his cloak

and blew the whistle and almost instantaneously Rupert Grint came crashing through the roof straight onto the shoulders and back of my son. I heard a sharp crack and it was all over.

Rupert Grint had completely spatchcocked him. Just in one fluid movement. Done. He'd butterflied your son. Completely butterflied my son. Splat and crack is the only way I can describe it. Mixed emotions, I imagine, for you. Very mixed emotions.

Experiment was over. Officially. very mixed emotions um experiment was over officially um i definitely made some emotional connection to my son but if i look back on it i absolutely hated him so there were no good memories really that you were going back to all of my memories were things like having my hair ripped out or you know being slapped in the mouth or waking up and immediately having to brush my teeth. You know, there was nothing that really sung out as a fantastic memory. So when Rupert Grint landed on my son's spine, it really did cheer up my day. Philip reburied Jan and waved goodbye to Rupert Grint as he returned to the forest. Then, it was time to go

back to the sanctuary. By the time I arrived back, I was dreading what I was going to see. All of the security guard chimps had gone. They'd all gone from the sanctuary. Clearly, Eli Roberts has been

and taken his security guards back so you arrive at the sanctuary were there any you know humans running yeah you know you know you've seen the type of course uh do good as a column right you know uh they always look very similar uh fleeces on with the name of the sanctuary embroidered on the chest. A sort of pasty look to the face. So I parked up. Got the one fella there, I think his name was Stephen. I said, give me the keys.

Open all the cages. Put the chimps in the back of the transit van. And there was no resistance from Stephen or the other volunteers to you? Stephen actually soiled himself on the spot, at the back of the transit man and there's no resistance from from steven or the other volunteers to you steven actually soiled himself on the spot was it was the was the thing um which i respected yeah he handed over the keys uh very quickly uh i opened up the cages he was on the floor whimpering at the time and then i said where's dav? My boy, David, where is he? So we're back here in Llancaig in Wales. Obviously the chimps are in their barn. Yeah.

They're patrolling with the crossbows and that kind of thing, and they're back at work. Am I right in saying that David isn't here? I haven't. Pardon me for a second. I love that boy, you know. I love him so deeply that I... I literally cannot describe to you

how much I hate whoever's taken him. And I cannot and I will not be responsible for my actions if I find the fucker who's taken him away because I've seen a bit you know I've been around a place, I've lived in demilitarised zones I've tortured, I've killed

but I've always done that from a place of love but if I find out who's got David it'll be from a place of hate and I don't know I don't know what I'll do, what I'm capable of doing. Which thrills me, in equal parts.

Terrifies me. I've never been scared of myself before. I've never seen you be this vulnerable before. There's no shame in that. I mean, I remember when I was in school, I got very upset once when I had a pet hamster called Dave and he got stood on

and he died. And I was very upset and my friend Mark said to me, oh, look at you crying over a silly little hamster, you know. And I actually made Mark eat the hamster.

As I said, I've lived a good life. I've done things the way they should be done and I've lived a life without consequence, really. But David, it's a bridge too far for me. I don't know. Do you believe that David is still alive? I can't believe otherwise When I go to sleep at night I can hear his voice

I can hear him say Which of course means I'm your dad I'm your Eli Well Eli, listen which of course means I'm your dad, I'm your Eli. Well, Eli, listen, you've got a public platform here. Yeah. You could make an appeal and maybe give a message to whoever it is that does have David, you know?

Okay. Okay. Okay. If you've got Davith, please return him to Llanquig, care of Eli Roberts, as soon as possible. And if you do that,

you have my word of honour that I will fucking kill you horribly. But if you fucking don't do it, I fucking shit you not, I will fucking torture you and all your relatives for seven generations, you fucking evil fuckers. So bring it back now

and I'll just kill you quickly. But if you bring it back after, all I gotta find to myself, I will fucking kill you and everyone who's ever met you thank you philip every time we've spoken to you in the past your interactions with eli have forced you to move on into a new chapter of your life. And each one really has been characterized by you wanting to get away from Eli and his impact on your life and the way he manages to somehow inveigle himself into almost

every experience you have on this earth. It's almost sort of uncanny how he's able to do that. Yeah. So what's next for you? and can you realistically forge a life that won't be affected by this man i don't i don't know what i'm going to do obviously the fact he's got these security chimps back does worry me a little bit the fact that he's still operating and he's out there but you've you've got to you've got to look at the numbers and chance. So far in my life, Eli Roberts has ruined my career as a food standards agent. I then moved on to animal welfare and I raided Mosquito Mayhem, which was the mosquito-only zoo that Eli Roberts ran.

So I thought, well,'s my the end of my relationship with eli roberts uh then went to the exercise classes and they turned out to be a death game run by eli roberts and now he's sent his security chimps to a sanctuary that i was working in i think the chances of me encountering him again are very, very low. Just on a purely mathematical basis, it seems like it must be vanishingly small. It seems unlikely. And so then do you feel positive about your future? Yeah, I think so. I think I need to find my next thing. I think, you know, mentally I've burnt a lot of bridges with food standards and animal welfare and chimps and the like.

You've left the sanctuary behind? I've left the sanctuary in safe hands of a chimp. I think finally it's time for the chimps to rule the roost. And of course the only person for the job was Daniel Radcliffe. Daniel Radcliffe is now running

the sanctuary for chimps. He understands chimps, he understands celebrities. He's the best chimp for the job. Or man. So he's happy, I'm happy, and I don't know what the future holds for me, but I think it'll be Eli Roberts free. David, come back. Come back to daddy, Dav Dav if you run away I forgive you and I'll kill you

when you come back but I give you a hug first David so are you saying you'll kill David yes of course I will

you've got to learn you've got to learn David I've I've given up my cock and balls for you. Come back here. Come back. And let me...

Let me see you one more time. Let me kill you with my own hands, please. David! David! David! Damn it! Damn it! Oh! over to the website now, where you can find all the usual stuff, as well as our off-topic section,

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