Beef And Dairy Network - Ray Moss: No Stone Unturned

Episode Date: March 31, 2018

A taster of a new BBC podcast mini-series from Beef and Dairy Network creator Benjamin Partridge.   To listen to more Ray Moss, subscribe to BBC Radio 1's Kench podcast: https://podcasts.files.bbci.co.uk/p061rg3q.rss

Hello, Benjamin Partridge here. I make the Beef and Dairy Network podcast. Now, this isn't an episode of Beef and Dairy Network. The next one is going to be later this week and it's a good one. But this is something slightly different. I've actually made a new podcast miniseries with the BBC called Ray Moss, No Stone Unturned. And I thought it might be a good idea if I put the first episode of it on this feed, because I think the people who like beef and dairy will enjoy it. It's kind of similar in some ways. It uses a lot of the same collaborators, but it's different in other ways. So I thought you might like to hear it.

And then if you like it, you can sign up and subscribe to the podcast. The podcast you need to subscribe to if you like it is called KENCH, K-E-N-C-H. And that's a new podcast from BBC Radio 1, which is going to be putting out new comedy series. And for the next four weeks, that's going to be my series, Ray Moss, No Stone Unturned. Ray Moss, No Stone Unturned is about Ray Moss. He's a kind of wannabe detective, an investigative journalist, and he's doing his best. So I hope you enjoy it. Obviously, you know, you've subscribed to this to listen to Beef and Dairy

Network. So if you have no interest, just press stop and press delete. And there'll be a new Beef and Dairy episode out later this week. But I think if you like Beef and Dairy, hopefully you'll enjoy this too. So here you go. This is episode one of Ray Moss, No Stone Unturned. here you go. This is episode one of Ray Moss, No Stone Unturned. I'm Ray Moss, investigative journalist, podcast detective, and truth seeker. If you need to get to the bottom of something, I'm your man. As long as it doesn't involve international travel because I've put on a lot of face weight and those airport scanners don't work with my passport photo. Anyway, if you have a mystery, if something doesn't make sense, get in touch and leave a message after the beep.

Hello, you're through to the Ray Moss No Stone Unturned hotline. Leave a mystery. Hi, Ray. Last night I met this guy. He said he had a time machine and he took 40 quid off me. I'm still in 2018. What's that all about? Hi, Ray.

I can't remember when Christmas is. I think there's someone in the house. What should I do? Please, Ray, help. Hello, Mr Moss. It's Dr Renard from the hospital. It's about your anus. This week, someone called Kayleigh really stoked my mystery mojo. Hi, Ray. My name is Kayleigh, and I'm calling because I've got a bit of a problem that i was

hoping you'd be able to help me out with um so basically i have this really vague memory of being a child watching television and um seeing the weatherman take his top off on live television. And it's really troubling me because nobody I talk to seems to remember this happening. But it's really stuck with me all these years. I can't shake it out of my head. So, did it really happen? From BBC Radio 1 and Doze Fresh, this is Ray Moss, no stone unturned. If you've got a mystery, then like an old piece of bark in a damp forest, Moss is all over it.

Kayleigh was doubting her own memory, and that's never a nice feeling. Like when you wake up on the sofa at 4am covered in empty boxes of Bakewell slices, that you have no memory of eating. I Skyped Kayleigh to find out more. Hello? Hello, Kayleigh, it's Ray Moss here. Oh, oh my God, um, hi! Hi, Kayleigh.

Hi. I just heard your voicemail, and I have have to say I'm very interested in taking on your case. Brilliant. Wow. Thank you. Yeah. Now, could you just recap what exactly was it that you saw? It sounds really weird, but I just have this memory of being a child watching television and the weatherman took his top off halfway through the programme, and it's just really stayed with me. Right.

The thing is, what worries me is, if I've made that up, the weatherman taking his top off, what else have I made up? And it makes me question all my memories. What if none of it has happened, actually? Did I have breakfast this morning did i go to spain last year on holiday it's fundamental things like that that

it's making me question so kaylee did you go on holiday to spain last year yes i did yes right so that one's sorted oh sorry it's just you know it it's really worrying is there any other information you've got that can help me on my uh my path to finding out the truth not really i mean have you got a date can you can you tell me when it happened mid 90s is the best i can give you really right the only thing and i mean this sounds really weird as well, but I have this image of something. I think it must have been the programme beforehand where it was a vicar. Yeah, a vicar being killed by a crab.

Right. Was this a news story? No, no, it was a drama or a programme. And that was the end. It was a vicar being killed by a crab. Okay. Well, that gives me something to go off. Thank you very much, Kayleigh. Thank you.

And don't you worry, because I'm going to get to the bottom of this for you. Don't you worry. Great. Thank you so much. Thank you, Ray. We live in a world of information. Emails, texts, phones, magazines, talking, train announcements, the ingredients on a packet of crisps, post-it notes, things written on the side of a van, hen do t-shirts, leaflets, tan criers, shampoo adverts,

and more recently, the internet. Surely if a weatherman had partially nudered himself live on television, a clip of it would be on the internet somewhere. I knew I was going to have to log on, and fast. I hightailed it to the library, where the local librarian, Sue, let me into the computer zone. She was up to date with all things tech, and within a quarter of an hour, I had a guest ID,

I was booted up, logged on, and was, and I believe this is the lingo, information surfing. But there was nothing. Not even a mention of it. Very strange. Then I thought about what Kayleigh had told me about the vicar being killed by a crab. A vicar being killed by a crab.

Crab. Crab. A bit more info-surfing turned up that it was a major storyline in Crab Beach, the short-lived soap opera about a small Australian town where the attractive residents struggle with life, love and thousands of dangerous crabs. One of the best-known episodes was one in which Brad, the dreamy beach vicar, was fatally attacked by a crab. Ah, you really got me. You did me right in the face, you little bugger.

I wish I'd never moved to Crab Beach in the first place. Why'd you make crabs, God? Huh? Why? Why? It was shown in the UK at 5.30pm on the 3rd of November 1995. As they say in Vegas, bingo. That's when the Weatherman incident must have happened.

I found a number of the archive department of the BBC, who keep tapes of every weather report ever broadcast. With this date, I could track down the tape and clear this up for good. I called the BBC, and just like any high-level investigative detective would do, I went undercover. Hello, BBC archives. Hello, Brian McSimmons here. I'm making a documentary and I would like to see... Sorry, are you putting on a Scottish accent? Yes. Right. Are you really making a

documentary? No. What are you doing? I'm making an investigative journalism podcast for the BBC. Right. Well, just say that then. Right, I'll call back. Hello, BBC Archives. Hello, my name is Ray Moss. Yep. The guy from before, right? Yep, yep.

OK, I'm looking for a specific weather report. It's from 3rd November 1995 on BBC One. Have you got those in the archive? Yeah, I'm just going to put you on hold. I'll look through the logbook. Hello, hi. Hello. Yeah, I've got the logbook here.

It says it was signed out 10 years ago and never returned. Right, so it's not in the archive. It's not in the archive, no. Okay. Do you have any records that would say who was presenting the weather on that day? That would be really helpful. I can get you that information. However, it does take six weeks for them to get back to us. Ah, OK. However, we have had a software change recently, which means I can get you that information immediately.

Oh, great. Good. However, we have had a server problem and the virus has caught our computers, so all our information has been destroyed. Right. So you can't get that information from me. So I can't get that information from you. That's correct. Right. Well, thanks for being so helpful so far. Hang on. Is there a name on the logbook that says who signed out the video 10 years ago? Can you tell me that? I can have a look. Just give me a second. Hello? Hello? Oh.

I tried calling back, but the line was dead. Curiouser and curiouser, thought Ray. That's me, Ray Moss. I was going to have to switch up my tactics. Like everyone, I find all of history incredibly boring, apart from World War II, which was basically a real-life action film. Also, the only sequel that's better than the first one. But just because it's boring doesn't mean it isn't useful from time to time. But just because it's boring doesn't mean it isn't useful from time to time. Hello, my name is Thomas Frenton and I'm a television historian. I spoke to Thomas in the hope that he might know something about the topless weatherman.

Thank you for coming in, Thomas. Pleasure. I didn't even know that there was such a thing as a television historian and then I looked it up and here you are. So, very pleased. There is such a thing. I'm a historian of television. Television is my specialist subject. Yeah, I was worried that you might have been not a historian of television, more like a historian on television.

Ah, I see. You mean those people that do history on the television. No, no, no. No, there's a separate thing. I'm a proper historian. I study the history of television. I'm not someone who just waffles on on your box, just talking nonsense.

Sorry, I feel like I've hit a nerve there for you. Well, sorry, it's a little bit sensitive for me because... OK, long story short, I did a course called How to Be a Television Historian and I thought I was going to be learning about how to be a TV historian in the mould of the big three. Sharma, Starkey, Beard. But it turned out it was a course in how to be a historian of television itself.

So a bit disappointing, but I'd already paid £148 deposit, so I just stuck with it. So hopefully you can tell me, I've got you here, because I wanted to ask you about the weatherman taking his top off on the BBC. Ah, yes. Now, you know what I'm talking about, which is a good sign. I wanted to ask you about the weatherman taking his top off on the BBC. Ah, yes. Now, you know what I'm talking about, which is a good sign. Did that actually happen?

Well, there have been a number of embarrassing episodes for the BBC over the years. The elephant pooing on the set of Blue Peter, Peter Sissons vomiting on the news, the match of the day where there was an autocue cock-up and Gary Lineker read a recipe for paella. Luckily, it was in between two nil-nil draws, so it pretty much went under the radar. But the Weatherman story is different. It didn't actually happen. It's a false memory, what I call a mass delusion.

Thomas told me that even though many people had seen A Topless Weatherman, that didn't mean it actually happened. In fact, throughout the history of television, there have been a number of similar mass delusions. For example, on the night of the millennium, when about half the population thought they saw Sue Barker, the presenter of Question of Sport, Sue Barker's head floating above Buckingham Palace.

Right, but she wasn't actually floating above Buckingham Palace. We don't believe so. No, we believe it was a mass delusion. What the people of Britain needed at that moment of high tension, remember, it was the Millennium Eve, people were very anxious about the Millennium Bug and the end of the world and so on. And what people needed to believe in was that Sue Barker's head was watching over them and winking.

It was an extraordinary moment. But it didn't happen. Didn't happen. So what does that teach us about the weatherman taking his top off? It tells us that, for whatever reason, the people of Britain that night needed to believe that a weatherman could take his top off on television. What exactly that's about, I couldn't tell you.

You'd have to speak to an expert in mass delusions. Thomas, thank you for coming in. Not at all. Had Kayleigh really seen a topless weatherman? Or had she simply been part of a mass delusion? It was time to engage with something even more boring than history. Science. No one likes science, not even scientists.

That's why they do sick things like sew together human body parts and put shampoo in rabbits' eyes. But sometimes it can be a useful tool for an investigator. I spoke to full-time boffin psychologist Dr Eve Treneman and asked her about the existence of mass delusions. In the industry, we tend to refer to them as false memories. And in actual fact, most of us will have a significant proportion of false memories, up to 10%. So 10% of your and my memories will be completely false? Of yours, certainly. Give me a fond memory of yours.

Sure, OK. So when I was five or six, I think, I remember my grandfather came round, as he used to most Sundays. It was different this time, though, because he'd made me a little wooden boat that he'd handmade, and it was really nice, and he'd painted it all blue and white, and on the side he'd painted Will's best grandson. Oh.

And that's something I think about quite a lot. Probably didn't happen. Right. But I have got the boat at home still, so... Yeah, you probably made that boat. Yeah. Yeah, I did make the boat. Memory is a funny thing.

A good example, actually, of what you termed mass delusion was many people thought that they saw Sue Barker floating above Buckingham Palace on the night of the millennium, when in reality she was in a sauna with Des Lynam and the rest of the BBC Sport team, as they do every New Year's Eve. Well, I've got a client. The reason I've got you in really is I've got this client and she remembers when she was very young, watching the television, watching a news report, and then the weather came on, and the weatherman took his top off. It's a cloudy memory,

and she's not sure whether it really happened or not, and I'm just trying to look into whether this could be a false memory. It's unlikely, because false memories tend to be very specific, not cloudy. Right. And also, on a personal level, I can confirm that it's not a false memory,

because I remember it too. You saw the weatherman taking his top off? Yes, I did. And I have not stopped thinking about it since. Could it not be that you've just fallen victim to the same mass delusion as my client, that this could also be a false memory in your own head? With all due respect, I am a professional

and I think I can tell the difference. And in this case, no, it was so real and he was so upset, he was so agitated and he whipped his shirt off and his stomach cascading

over his trousers like a fatty waterfall and atop that his soft pillowy tits. He was utterly revolting. Why would anybody do that? A professional man at the height of his career. Why did he do it? Why did he do it?

Why? Why would anybody do it? That's what I'm here to find out. Back to the investigation after this week's quick solves. Hi, Ray. I think I've lost my keys. Are they on the hook? Yeah, there they are. Thanks Ray. That's a quick solve. Hi Ray, I'm lying down on my front and I've got a really warm back. Have you got a cat on it? Yes, I do. Case closed. Well, thanks, Ray. That's a quick solve. And as ever, my quick solves are brought to you in association with Doze Fresh.

With Doze Fresh, you pay a simple monthly payment and every week you will receive all the ingredients you need for a healthy and delicious meal, packaged inside a premium memory foam mattress. Sign up this month and get a free tiramisu delivered inside a duck feather pillow. Now, back to the case. If what Dr Trenneman had said was right, Hayley's memory was genuine. But how to prove it? I thought back to my call with the BBC Archive. Why had someone taken out the tape 10 years ago and not

brought it back? Why had the line suddenly gone dead? And why didn't he buy my flawless Scottish accent? I felt like I was going around in circles, but not in a good Lewis Hamilton way. When you get stuck looking under a stone, sometimes you need your rock. And my rock is a woman. A she-rock.

My matrimonial boulder. My wife, Penny. Pang, can I talk to you about the case? What? Oh. You know the weatherman thing? Yeah. Yeah. So it's pretty exciting, actually. So I've got to the stage now where... Is it? Yep. Yeah, it is. Because I've worked out the date, the exact date when that must have

happened. If it happened. Right? So I spoke to the BBC archive... How long did that take? Well, I was on the weekend. Is that why we couldn't go to my sister's? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So then I spoke to them, the BBC archive, and asked for the tape.

So I could see whether it was real or not. But, and this is the kickerer someone took it out years ago and never brought it back now isn't that suspicious well i mean no it's not not suspicious no it's a bit odd it's not suspicious like an abandoned bag at a train station might be suspicious no or it's a conspiracy that i've uncovered oh my god because uncovered because I'm a truth seeker and I'm finding the truth out and I'm onto something. It's like the moon landings. Yeah, it is like the moon landings, actually.

I mean, just you being an investigative reporter, it's just delusional. It's like Sue Barker in the sky at the Millennium all over again. It's a waste of time, Ray. I had a hot Ribena and flicked the telly on. The weather. This case wasn't going to let me rest. I looked out of the window at the sky in desperation, but all I saw was more weather.

On the television, a smartly dressed young man with perfect teeth told me that the weather tomorrow would be changeable. If only he could tell me what would make him take his top off. My old mum used to say to me, sleep on your problems, son. I have to sleep with mine. I never really understood what she meant, but in later life, I realised she was talking about shagging my dad. But the advice remains useful.

I went to bed feeling no closer to an answer. But the next morning, I was met with a message on the answer machine that would blow the case right open. Hello, hi, Ray. This is the guy from BBC Archives. You know, the one you put on the Scottish accent for. Listen, look, I think there's something going on here. It's a bit suspicious because tapes never go missing. I've been thinking about it.

I think there's a cover-up. I know why you want the footage. It's the guy, the weatherman, isn't it? The one who takes his top off. Well, listen, look, I probably shouldn't be doing this, but his name, the guy who signed out the tape 10 years ago is Charles Bilton. Okay. Charles Bilton. Listen, they can't know I'm telling you this. No, no, I was just... No, I'm... No, I'm sorry, no! Charles Bilton. Back at the library, I looked up Charles Bilton

and there are only two in the UK. Luckily, I know one of them and he wouldn't be involved in something like this. He's a squash coach who keeps himself to himself, although he does come out of his shell on the court. After a bit of digging, I came up with the phone number for the other Charles Bilton and got through to a Mrs Bilton who told me that Charles had moved out of their home many years ago. Luckily, she could tell me where he is currently

living, in the back of a van in the basement of a multi-storey car park. The multi-storey wasn't hard to find. A great big concrete bitch ruining the cityscape like a turd in a souffle. In the basement, I found the van. A battered old transit, its once white exterior covered in the obscene scrawlings of local youths who had mastered the depiction of only one body part. To be fair, they'd nailed it. Using the old investigator's trick of pretending to deliver a pizza, I tried to talk to Charles Bilton. Pizza! Hello? Hello. I've got a pizza delivery for Mr Charles Bilton. What did you say? I've got a pizza delivery for Charles Bilton. I've got Hawaiian.

I haven't ordered a pizza in nearly 18 years. Just open the door and I'll show you the pizza. The wine, you say? Tell me, do you know anything about a weatherman who took his top off on the television? Okay. I knew this day would come. You better come in. Take your shoes off. Of course, I didn't have a pizza at all.

I just used it as a ruse to get him talking. Classic Ray Moss. Take a seat. Somewhere. He welcomed me into the back of his van and I was met with a smell like an old horse had shat itself to death. I wouldn't sit on that. If anything moves, just whack it.

Charles Bilton busied himself, moving old boxes and bits of what looked like rubbish, but what I quickly realised was old meteorological equipment, a windsock, an old barometer, a signed photograph of Michael Fish. My name is Charles Bilton, formerly Jonathan Emery, the weatherman after the incident.

I changed my name and started a new life here in this van. And I knew one day someone would track me down. Charles Billton wasn't just the man who'd taken out the tape of the weatherman. He was the weatherman. I'd hit the jackpot. It didn't take him long to start reminiscing about the good old days. Oh, halcyon days. I was riding high, you know, predicting the weather

every night. People tuned in, people knew they were going to get the weather, they were going to get it straight, they were going to get it with a bit of flair, you know, and talked about fog, wind, you know, different kinds of rain. I had so many adjectives back then for rain. I've lost a lot of them now. You don't use them, you lose them, right? And people love me. And I was very happy, yeah.

I had a pocket full of dough and the other pocket full of dreams that I was living. So I was living in my pocket, but I was striding around in some big trousers. What went wrong? Well, I'd say what went wrong was what went right. What went wrong was a sense of moral obligation. A sense of philanthropy. So this guy, this man about town, going about

turning heads, living the high life, decided he needed to put something back. Something he loved was under threat. Something other people loved was under threat. And that dandy, that loved showman of typhoons and hail, he became the Mother Teresa of bodies of water. Charles explained that the reason he took his top off was as a protest against the destruction of a local beauty spot,

Cumberland Reservoir. The Cumberland Reservoir, absolutely beautiful spot, was going to be taken over by developers. So they found some legal loophole back then. There was a lot of it going on. People had worked out that you could technically classify a reservoir as rising damp. So up and down the country, reservoirs were being bought up

for cheapest chips and developed into quasars, bowling alleys, anything you like, no problem. The same for Cumberland Reservoir, which was a very, very precious place to me. And what is it about Cumberland Reservoir that is so important to you that you would take your top off and show your midriff on television? It's a deeply, deeply powerful place to me. It's where I first learnt to windsurf. It's where I first proposed to my wife that we should get a dog, and she said yes.

Very happy times. And you were willing to put your career on the line for it? I was willing to put everything on the line for it. Nothing had ever happened like that on television anywhere in the world. It was going to be an incredible event. The term water cooler moment hadn't even been invented back then. They were going to have to invent water coolers and put them in offices in Britain to talk about this moment.

It was going to be huge. Charles had planned to write Save Cumberland Reservoir on his chest to bring attention to his cause. However, in the excitement and anticipation that afternoon before the broadcast, he forgot to write it on. It had been for nothing. And now, here he was, living in complete squalor. OK, let's have a look.

Oh, sorry, bend the knees. That's better. Charles, can I just say, looking around the back of your van, the biggest glaring omission, shall we say, is there's no toilet. Right. That bucket, that metal bucket you made us a bit of tea in. Yeah. I wouldn't dwell on the provenance of the bucket or what the bucket has been used for in the past.

I will say, you know, living in a multi-storey car park, it's not so bad. Honestly, that kind of thing. If I need a shit, just do it in the bottom of the lift. You know, or up an exhaust pipe. If you need a piss, there's a vending machine around the corner. Bob's your uncle, OK? By which you mean you piss into the vending machine? I don't have any coins to use the vending machine,

so, yeah, I just piss in the vending machine. In the coin slot? I have pissed in the coin slot, sure. I mean, I used to use the tray where the confectionery comes out, but I had an injury where the flap came down too hard at one point. So, lesson learned. I had won his trust. It was time to bring up the tape. Did he still

have it? I've spoken to the BBC, Charles, and that's how I came to find you, because your name is written in the logbook for taking out the VHS copy of the archive of that weather report. So I assume you... Do you still have it?

I do have that tape. I did take that tape. I've never quite been able to bring myself to destroy it or bury it or... Do you ever watch it, Charles? No, I've never watched it. I can't. Watch it with me now, Charles. I don't. I don't even know if this VHS player works. It's had an under siege in it for the last 20 years. I don't know if I can even take it out.

He pulled the tape from an old stained pillowcase and slid it into the ancient machine. As it whirred into life, his face appeared on the screen, 20 years younger, happier and without any visible rat bites. I'm going to bring a brolly with you because it's going to be wet. In eastern parts it will be unsettled. No. I'm sorry. I've got to make a stand.

Read my chest. No, no, back off. Back off. Hey, hey, get off. I've got to... Pull. Get a little bit... Not the nipples.

Not the nipples. Hey! Get off me. I'll hand me, man. The video was viscerally disturbing. His soft pink torso glistening in the unforgiving lights, his facial expression of triumph immediately turns to panic, then outrage, then shame. Seconds after he takes off his shirt, a monstrous cameraman rugby tackles him to the ground and then the producers pile in.

He never had a chance. You don't know human frailty until you've seen a man's nipples, crushed, under the jackboot of the institution he'd given everything to. How did it feel seeing that? It's humiliating. It's much worse than I imagined, honestly. I mean, I've pictured the moment in my head many times. And, you know, I mean, you know how your voice sounds different

when you hear it recorded? It also looks different when you take your top off on live television. And it looks different to how you imagined it at the time. Same sort of thing. I thought I was in better shape. Shall we watch a bit of Under Siege? Yeah, I'd love that. After watching the opening 20 minutes of the 90s Steven Seagal action classic Under Siege, my arse started to hurt from sitting on an old biscuit tin, and so Charles asked me if I'd like to see Cumberland

Reservoir. Well, here we are. Sorry, what do you mean? This is it. This is the site of the former Cumberland Reservoir. You've walked me five steps from your van. This is where they drained it, filled it in, and put this goliath of a multi-storey car park in. A brutalist architecture, I gather, appropriately. I'm at the end of a long investigation. You're at the end of your own story.

How do you feel? I've been at the end of my own story for quite a long time now, Ray, to be honest. And I survive. Here I am. I have everything I need. Even here, you know, getting work has been difficult. But you'd be surprised what people drop in a multi-storey car park, really, and you'd be surprised what you can live off if you really show a bit of grit.

I left Charles eating an old piece of ham he found on the floor and Skyped Kayleigh. Hello? Hi, Kayleigh, it's Ray Moss here. Hi, Ray. Hi. Good news. Uh-huh? I've got to the bottom of it.

Oh, my God. Yeah. I'm editing. I've got to the bottom of it. Oh, my God. Yeah. Amazing. Are you ready? Yes. So, you weren't imagining it at all. It really did happen. Wow.

The weatherman did take his top off, and I've spoken to him. He is now destitute and lives in the back of a transit van. And, I mean, that's by the by. You can stop questioning every memory you've ever had. It was real. Oh, right. To be honest, I thought it would be more of a feeling of closure or something, but I feel nothing, basically. Sorry, what do you mean?

Well, I just, I don't feel anything. Yet. Give her a couple of days and it'll sink in. I think in her own way, what Kayleigh was trying to say was, thanks, Ray, you've changed my life and blown my mind. No problem, Kayleigh. And I have to say, this is a bittersweet one for me. Yes, I could help Kayleigh, but nothing changes the fact that

my friend, and yes I do now count him as a friend, Charles Bilton, formerly Jonathan Emery weatherman, did nothing more than try to save his local reservoir, and as a result now lives in a van and relieves himself into the coin slot of a vending machine. But at least now he does have a friend, and sometimes when you're pissing in a vending machine, you just need someone to hold the flap open for you. I also want to let you know that in solidarity with Charles Bilton, I'm making these closing comments with my top off. I admit, on a podcast it feels like an empty gesture, but there you go. So, until next time, remember, if you see a stone turn it over you never know what you'll find under there thanks for listening to that uh if you enjoyed it remember please subscribe to the

podcast it's called kench k-e-n-c-h you can find it on itunes subscribe to the podcast. It's called Kench, K-E-N-C-H. You can find it on iTunes and all the other places you can get podcasts from. That's Kench, K-E-N-C-H. Subscribe and then, yeah, there'll be three more episodes of Ramos coming over the coming weeks. Great. And there'll be more Beef and Dairy Network later this week. Thanks.