Begin Again with Davina McCall - Begin Again Moments: Heal Your Inner Child

Episode Date: April 5, 2026

In this deeply personal episode, Ms. Jo Malone CBE opens up about her childhood and the emotional scars that shaped her, from the chaos of her family dynamic to the survival tactics she adopted at a young age. Jo shares her journey of healing, emphasising the importance of reconnecting with your inner child and embracing vulnerability. Renowned philosopher Alain de Botton joins the conversation to provide expert insights on how to heal your inner child. Drawing on his wisdom, Alain explores how early childhood experiences shape our sense of self and our relationships, offering practical advice on how to confront and nurture our emotional wounds. This episode is a journey into the heart of healing, teaching us how to better understand our past to foster peace and emotional growth in our present. Full Episode with Ms. Jo Malone CBE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j6JX6GkD_8 Full Episode with Alain De Botton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PXHx275Oa8&t=1928s Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Oh, I had a really happy childhood and I grew up on a council estate. It's so funny when I go around talking now, when I say the word of state, everyone imagines downtown abbey. And it's like, it was far from downtown abbey. And it was a little two-up, two-down, council estate. My dad worked for Alcan, the double-glazing company, and my mum worked for Revlon. And they always had sort of quite an angry relationship. There was always a route.

And I would walk into the house. And if my father said to me, tell your mother, I thought, and all you want as a child is happiness, don't you? Wonderful, safe and secure. And I was the adult in that house from 11. I really was. So my father was an absolute brilliant man. He was an artist.

He was a magician, but he was a huge gambler as well. So he would paint pictures, and at the weekends, I would go with him to the market. I was probably seven or eight, and we would get to either Craford, Dartford, Blackheath, Tombridge Wells, we'd set up our stall. And I would send my dad off to go and get breakfast. And I knew within that 30 minutes, I had to sell a painting. because I knew that we didn't have any money to eat back home and my mum would say if you don't sell anything today

there is nothing to eat. So I would sell that first painting, put the money in my pocket and I would hold on to it. Oh, you wouldn't give it to your dad? I wouldn't give it to my dad because I knew what he would do on Sunday with it. Right. But he was, I loved everything about my father.

He was kind, gentle, loved animals. I mean, I'm so similar to him. and then he had... Sorry, I just want to unpick a little bit of that because that is so interesting because in a sense, I can hear the love you had for your dad. But at the same time, he would kind of put your whole... Like you weren't sure whether you're going to be able to eat or not,

but that didn't affect how you felt about your dad. No, because I thought everybody lived like that. I had no idea that... I mean, you wouldn't, would you? You just think that's our life. And, you know, we lived on a... where there were people worse off than us as well. But I think my father's sense of entertainment,

I just wanted to be with him the whole time. So I was trained to be the magician's assistant. I was the Debbie McGee. And when he would go and do magic shows to earn some money, I knew how people were sawn in half. I had a pet dove called Sukki, and she would appear from a pan of fire. Oh, I loved her. She used to sit on my shoulder and coo in my ear.

So I knew all the tricks and I would help him. And then, of course, the money he would earn, he would then take me to the poker game. And that's where it all went wrong every time. And I... Did you notice then, oh, this is what he does and it's going wrong? Yes. Oh, yeah. How old were you then? I was at 7, 8.

Wow. It's so young, really, when you think about it. But he trained me to read marked cards and I had really long hair. So I was sitting in the corner, I'd watch them all playing and I would twiddle my hair to let my dad know what was in everyone's hand because he had poor eyesight. But I could read marked cards and I think about it now, it was so dangerous. Yeah. You know, to, and in my life I've never gambled, never.

Never had an overdraft of my own. I've never gambled. and because of that memory of what it can do to a family. And I look at it now, Davina, and I think, my poor mum, that's probably why she was so angry and so she found me a threat always. And I think it was probably because she was really insecure and really unhappy. It is quite a gift getting older and being able to see, with hindsight, reasons. for things. Has that helped you, do you think?

I think I don't want to feel bitter, actually. That's what I don't want in my life. And, you know, because of some of the other health challenges I faced, I was angry as a teenager for a long time. Understandably, you know, I left school with no qualifications. So I felt for a long time, I was like a little old lady in a young body. That's where I had, it was up to me to make sure there was always three, meals in the fridge and it always involved a tin of baked beans, eggs, you know, the kind of thing.

But how old were you when you were organising that? I'm not surprised. I mean, you were 11. I was 11 years old. Of course it was going to be baked beans, right? It was, no, I was quite, I could kind of, like, I was quite good. But we had incredible neighbours and community, like Auntie Maureen, Auntie Sheila, Auntie May, and they would knock on the door because I looked after my sister, I'd pick her up from

school, take her back home, cook dinner for her, then I'd have to clean the house, and then my mum would arrive back at about 10 o'clock at night, and I'd have to have the twin tub ready to go with all the sheets. And at 10 o'clock at night, I was doing a full wash so that my mum had clinic sheets for the next day. You know, when I think back on it, 11 years old. Yeah. And your sister was five. She was quite young. She was like a little, a little girl for you to look after. She was. But again, our neighbours were. would knock on the door and Auntie Maureen would say, oh, I picked up some lamb chops.

You know, it was such kindness and it wasn't done, it was just done out of love and kindness and community. It wasn't patronising in any way. It was like literally just, you're a mate, you'd do this for me. Yep, yeah. No judgment either, no judgment. And so I look at it, but I look at the little Joe. I still feel the little Joe actually.

And still to this day, I have to have three meals in the fridge, even now. you never know. But that keeps your feet on the ground. And it keeps you, and to forget your past in that way and not allow that story to be shared. And often when I share these kind of stories, people go, I can't imagine you like that.

And, you know, I'm probably never going to have to worry about another meal in the rest of my life. But it keeps me appreciative of what I do have as well. but I laughed a lot it was a happy childhood always dogs around so I love dogs I love animals so we always had dogs around

but not a lot of money that little Joe I always think it's quite a useful and brilliant thing to remember yourself as this little person but with love because she is in you

she is she is you Yeah. And she is why you are you now. And that's such a gift. And nothing's wasted. Yeah. You know something, I truly believe that in my life. It's like what, if I looked again at my life, would I change anything? I wouldn't. I really wouldn't. Welcome aboard via rail. Please sit and enjoy. Please sit and sip. Play. Post. Taste. View and enjoy. Via. There's a real. There's something else here now. Something new.

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From, binge all episodes exclusively on. Paramount Plus. I think a massive part of the journey to accepting death is finding out who you are and you're just saying, you know, be who you are. But I think I got to like menopause and what I have been learning and I'm still not there yet of who am I really. And I think part of that is what do I want? What do I want?

It's always been for my kids or providing for the family. And I feel like I'm on a bit of a journey of what do I want, which in turn will show me who I am. But I would quite like to find out if you've got any practical tips for people who. were maybe a bit younger than me because I am quite old and I kind of wish I'd started this journey 20 years ago. How can you start this journey? By the way, this is a big theme, saving people time because why on earth do these life lessons sink in so late on?

Couldn't we just, you know, we're trying to save people time. It's like I took 20 years to learn this. Please don't take 20 years to learn this. Please, you know, I'm all the time saying this to people and I'm sure you are too. So, okay, so how do we learn to, I mean, look, childhood is a very difficult period. And I think we all need to understand that children are born into the world, utterly dependent on those around them, the few people around them who are randomly chosen and who will be suffering from various distortions of their own minds. I mean, it's very rare that you are born into a sane family. Most of us are born into, you know, it's a lopsided sort of proposition.

So we had to understand that this is the way we're born. how long are we going to let that lopsided entry into the world determine our lives? Ideally, a minimal amount of time. What you need to do is to realise the nature of the lopsidedness, accept the lopsidness, and start to correct it as early as possible. How do we find out what our lopsidedness is? Is it that we sit and ask ourselves questions? I mean, you know, it depends in which area, love and work,

the two great areas of life. this is Freud said, you know, happiness means getting love and work right. And most of us get love and work dramatically wrong with things that are probably related to early childhood. Or, you know, we pick up, what happens in childhood is that we don't only learn language and social skills. We learn a whole emotional vocabulary about who we are, how we function, what's expected of us, what it takes to be good, you know, what it means to be a boy, a girl, gender, roles, etc. All of this is encoded in us. unconsciously. And we need to understand the language we've learned in order to become self-aware and question, because bits of it are going to be barmy, really, really strange, really distorted. There will be an excessive focus on some areas and not on others. And ultimately, the goal of adulthood is to become your own arbiter of your own value and of your own mission and of your own joys, etc. It used to belong in other people. A child looks up at its parent and goes, who am I? What am I worth? And the answer comes back from the parents' face. And that answer is

loaded with prejudice and bizarre stuff, right? And after a certain age, you think that happened to me in the past. I can't let that continue. At some point, I've got to become. And by the way, we do this in love. I mean, in love, you know, most of us spend a good portion of our lives thinking I'm not complete until I meet somebody else who's able to mirror for me a good picture. of who I am. I won't tolerate myself until someone else can say, you're okay. And until then, I'm not okay. Can I quickly ask you something about that? So, because I think what you're saying is, I want to find somebody where I like myself. Okay, so you're showing me a version of I become a nice person when I'm with you. I give you power of attorney over my worth. I give you,

I give you the power to decide whether I'm a good person or a bad person. Think about lonely. But shouldn't we know if we're a good person or a lot? Of course. But of course, that's not the history. So let's get passionate towards the history. Because we've come from a place where we take our school grades to our parents and go, what am I worth? Am I a good person?

And maybe there are good evolutionary reasons why that's the case. But the point is, how long do we want to let that continue? At some point, we have to seize the reins and go, now I'm an adult. And part of adulthood means not surrendering my power to decide my worth always to random external authorities. I mean, you know, again, in relation. relationships, people get into terrible trouble because they stick around people who beam back a terribly negative image of them. And they go, I've got to spend another decade persuading this person that I'm a worthwhile human being. And you think, no, you don't. If you are not getting back an image that you like and that broadly, you know, agrees with your sensible reasons for your own assessment and sense of worth, get out. Don't be around such a situation. We do so much of giving up to others, something that should be self-generated. And we get into terrible trouble because of that.