Begin Again with Davina McCall - Confidence Expert: This Is The Biggest Confidence Mistake! The Dark Side of Self Help. How To Be Confident. Susie Moore.

Episode Date: November 28, 2024

In this episode of Begin Again, Davina is joined by Susie Moore, a celebrated confidence expert, and author of the best-selling book Let It Be Easy. Known for her uplifting perspective on self-improvement, Susie and Davina dive into some transformative themes that serve as a guide to building confidence, reframing challenges, and finding the courage to take bold steps towards a life of fulfilment, joy and intention. Find Susie’s podcast here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/let-it-be-easy-with-susie-moore/id1614486542 Follow me here: www.instagram.com/beginagain https://www.tiktok.com/@beginagainpod  (00:00) Intro (02:41) Overcoming Childhood Trauma (03:52) Coping with Struggles (08:53) Is It Ever Too Late to Transform Your Life? (10:24) Preparing Kids for Life’s Challenges (12:07) How to Help Someone Let Go and Move Forward (14:31) Control in Relationships: How to Maintain Healthy Boundaries (19:29) The Power of Being Assertive and True to Yourself (21:01) Breaking Free from People-Pleasing Behaviors (24:38) How Susie Reinvented Her Career (27:35) Fiverr Ad (28:25) ZOE Ad (29:53) Life Coaching (32:53) Taking Risks in Midlife (35:49) Finding Inner Strength (39:52) Dating After Divorce (50:13) How Men Process Emotions (52:05) Spiritual Journeys (55:12) Conversation Takeaways Sponsored by: Fiverr - https://fvrr.co/davina  ZOE - https://zoe.com and use code DAVINA10 SetArtwork provided by Kimi Zoet. Enquiries: [e-mail] https://g2ul0.app.link/oQMAPbdSGNb Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Anyone who has known or loved an addict knows the roller coaster. Is it ever too late to make that change? If you've ever noticed anyone go through a very positive life shift, it starts with that. Wow. Our inner critic is your worst enemy. There's a problem, a struggle, anything to deal with. Three questions. Number one, how serious is this really?

Number two, what are my options? Number three. What about? if you've never really achieved what you feel you could achieve. Maybe you're scared to go for a new job, scared to online dates, scared to reinvent yourself a midlife. I can reason with myself and go, how risky is this? What's the worst that can happen?

Yes, the fear is there. We want to acknowledge it. We can let the fear ride in the car with us, but it's not driving. Yes. Confidence is this ingredient that really fuels everything. You can change the atmosphere in a room. You are your own best asset.

What is there to gain from not owning your strengths? What I've learned is that that is the most loving thing you can do for yourself. Maybe a question you can ask yourself in any situation is. Yeah, oh my God, this is so great. So, Susie, I've got to say it's so great to meet you. I mean, it's quite funny when you've been following somebody and then, like, you've watched everything that they do. And then I'm like, oh, so thank you very much for talking to me today.

There's so many things I want to get. at, but I think first off, I want to say, I love the way you call yourself a confidence coach and not a life coach. Tell me why that was. What I've noticed is that confidence is this ingredient that really fuels everything. There's an old quote that says, with confidence, you've won before you've even started. And I think that we have this misconception to Vina that people think confidence is fixed. Like, you've got brown eyes. You've got brown eyes. Yeah. I'm 5'02. I say I'm 5'5. Ha. Or, you know, he's tall. She's this. We think, oh, it's like this feature that some people are born with. It's something that, well, I guess I wasn't born under that lucky confidence star.

But what I've come to know is that confidence is simply a willingness to be uncomfortable. And actually, anybody can do that. This is very good news. Maybe you're scared to go for a new job, scared to online dates, scared to reinvent yourself a midlife. Really, yes, the fear is there. We want to acknowledge it, but we're in control of how willing we are to move through the uncomfortable emotions. And anyone can be willing to be uncomfortable.

That's such an interesting idea because I think people think that confidence is something that you are brave to do something you don't feel uncomfortable. Yes. I think they think that confidence is comfortable. Yes. Haven't you had that feeling?

You're like, gosh, I appear brave right now, very strong in front of a lot of people because look, you've got the audiences, you've had these stages, and are you wildly relaxed all the time? Do you just feel like, I've got this? No. But you still do it. You're still willing to put yourself in a position where, yeah, there's maybe a bit of nerves, a bit of anxiety, a bit of, I hope I'm good at this, but you still move forward. And I think that that's where a lot of people stop. And it costs us a lot. It costs us. It costs the world. It costs the collective because we are influenced by people who inspire us. And when we're out there doing things that maybe are different or do feel brave, it's not because there's some

huge absence of fear. It's because we can let the fear ride in the car with us, but it's not driving. It's just there. Yes. Yes, that's it. Passenger seat. Yes. You get in the passenger seat, fear. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I think it's the best news to be in it, but if anyone can be willing to be uncomfortable, anyone can be confident. Yeah, oh my God, this is so great. I want to talk to you about your childhood, because we've had a quick chat about childhood trauma, and you had quite a difficult childhood. Yes. And your father, in particular, could you just talk me through what you went through with him? Yes. So anyone who has known or loved an addict knows the rollercoaster. that that brings, especially when it's someone that you love. We're programmed to love our parents,

however imperfect they are, no matter what they do. And so my father, who was a drug and alcohol addict, he died when I was a teenager. We had a very unpredictable life as a result. We moved around a lot. We lived in a series of different domestic violence shelters. We always lived in government housing, you call it council housing here. The way that we grew up, we relied a lot on church donations. So like for toys, for school uniforms, food sometimes, we had to go to Sunday school. My mom's like, you can't just take all the donations. You have to go to Sunday school. We have to go to church.

But one Sunday school teacher that I had, she said, and this really stuck with me, it's helped me so much. She said, everybody is equal. I thought, well, we're all equal. Then I can feel comfortable. Our lives might look different. but we're all, like, we are all equal human beings. But this is the interesting thing. Like, people find different ways of coping with trauma.

And I obviously turned to drugs. And drugs made me feel safe for the few minutes that I was high. And then I'd been looking for more. You needed relief? Yes, it was your relief. But I was lucky I got clean very young. And through going to Narcotics Anonymous, what I noticed was, the people that have the hardest time getting and staying clean

are the people that can't get out of victim. As a friend of somebody that you can see is stuck in that mode, I've wanted to be able to say something magical to somebody that will snap them out of it, and it's very hard sometimes. I mean, I fail most of the time. How do you get someone out of victim mode? So in coaching, we speak about a victim loop

and an accountability loop. But the biggest decision is someone has to stop wanting to be a victim. And not everybody wants to stop. It can actually be easier to say, oh, I'm going through this, which is why I need to have a beer in the morning,

which is why I can't do the laundry, which is why I can't be there for my kids, which is why not everyone actually wants to shift. It takes too much courage. It feels too risky. It feels too scary. So the decision to make a shift has to come from an individual. There is such peace in that, by the way, if you're like, I really want to help my

mom or I really want to help my sister, I really want to help. You have to lovingly, it's, I know it's very difficult, but there has to be a surrender and an acceptance to someone's path and someone's decision. But if someone really does want to make a change, they often listen to podcasts like this one, right, they'll be inspired. The materials there, 50 pence in a charity shop, right, the right things come when you're ready, then we slowly take steps. We realize, what are my options? Am I actually telling myself the truth? Right? So often we just, we don't, we, we, we lie to ourselves. We know it, right? We can feel it in our integrity. It's like a mini integrity breach. Every time we're like, well, that's just how it is. Well, that's just life. We know

that that's not true. We're powerful creators at our core. And if somebody feels stuck in any situation and they really want, they really want to break through, they want to make a shift, I would always lovingly sit with them and say, okay, fun times. What are our options right now? What are our options? Right? Because when we feel stuck, it just often means we've just stopped. We're in one place, there's a stagnation there. It feels heavy. It feels like there's no way out. But there are always lots of ways out that we can't see. But we have to be honest with ourselves because even the foundation of self-confidence is self-trust. Even the word confidence has a Latin origin confeder meaning to trust. So if you can't trust yourself, if you're like lying to

yourself or just going, well, yep, this is just, you know, how it is, not whatever, whatever, then your confidence can't emerge because you're not really coming from a place of honesty. So, you know, if you've ever noticed anyone go through a very positive life shift, it starts with the, I'm sick of this. I'm sick of myself. I'm sick of this result. I'm tired. And it has to come from that honest place. And then from a place of action when you're ready, really looking at your options. It's surprising how many options we have as human beings. Is it ever too late to make that change? Oh my gosh. My friend's dad is starting his like six business. He's 77. I'm like amazing. And also, you know, Davina, the research is very clear on this.

Investors, people who invest seed rounds, angel investors, they prefer older entrepreneurs. They're like they've lived. They've been around the block. They've suffered disappointments. They know how to bounce back. Young people, yes, have energy and they're connected to tech in different ways. But often, maybe if someone's, say, less experienced, they have a disappointment. They're like, well, I tried.

Or, yeah, well, I guess I'm not good enough. Someone with experience has so much to get. Like, speak about beginning again. Oh, my, you're never starting from scratch. So the more years you've lived, the more you've learned, the more you've suffered. even, the more you also even understand your capacity to overcome to try again. But oh my gosh, I always think, nothing. What is too late?

I was even reading about Louise Hay, the founder of Hay House. She took her ballroom dancing at age 88. And she was like, sorry, I'm going to be ballroom dancing. People are like, aren't you lying down? She's like, no, I'm dancing. And I'm like, but that's how powerful we are. We get to decide. And so that's someone.

She's an example of someone who sees options, who sees possibility. And I think that that's what a loving friend or a loving coach or a loving mentor in your life will help you do. Just open your eyes a bit more. Because when we're stuck, we have this tunnel vision. And it's not so true. There are lots of things we could do. I mean, you were talking about when something goes wrong

and as something happens and having a bit of life experience has shown you throughout life, you've got back up, you've started again, and something else has happened. Yes. But I think with kids, it's quite interesting. You were talking about speaking to people that have got kids if they haven't had any childhood trauma and their life has been brilliant and they've been told all through school like, oh my God, well done,

like everything's great, you're so good. How do you prepare them for the disappointment of life? Because life's tough. Yes, oh my. I do see this sometimes when children are, the parents are so quick to swoop it and solve the problems. I've got you. I'm stepping in for you.

Oh, you lost something? I'll find it. Oh, someone says something mean, I've done that. And understandably so, right? It comes from such, it comes from a loving place, but there's also some fear behind it, right? Is it going to be, are they going to be okay? Yes.

But then, like you said, you go out into the world. No one knows you. I mean, even if someone is known or from a good family, that's not going to be true everywhere. No one's going to be like, oh, are you the person? The world will treat you pretty equally based on just your own merit, how you're showing up, what your contribution is. So, I mean, in an ideal world, we allow children to make mistakes.

We allow people to, children, young people, anyone to course correct. And instead of going, okay, let's, okay, I'm jumping in. Say, hey, hmm, yeah. Yeah, that thing that happened, that, that was rough, you know, being with someone in it. I really hope you're enjoying this episode. And if you can, give us a follow. I feel like in the last two years started to learn the joy of letting go. Letting go is the most, to me, control has made me feel safe.

Letting go feels terrifying, but that's the thought of it. Actually doing it is the most joyful thing I have ever experienced. How can you help someone let go of the grip? What I've learned is that when you think you have control or you want to take control or being in control is your priority, you think you have this level of impact. But all you have is anxiety. All you have is what's happening. Let me check in. I mean, what do we think we can control exactly, apart from our own effort and our own behavior? You know, there is a difference between being in control and being in charge.

So in charge is I can show up on time. I can control my attitude. I can control the thoughts that I'm thinking. I can, I'm in charge of, there are things that we, you know, someone once said that if, if you look at life as 100%, you've got control of maybe 20%, but you can give 100 to your 20, right? You can't control who your parents are, what the traffic is, what the government is doing. I mean, there is so much that's just out of our hands, how our kids behave.

We can be in charge of what we are able to be in charge of, but we're never at. actually in control. And if you think you are, if you're seeking that, I would just ask you to how's that working? How is it working for you? How is it working for the person who's being controlled? Do you like being controlled? Do you like it? Do you like it? And you can't actually control someone and love them at the same time. Right? Once fear, one's love. They're the opposites. Like the opposite of love is fear. And so when you think, gosh, I've got to control my husband. I've got to control my kids. the relationship becomes less honest. You're stressed out, they're stressed out.

And you think, gosh, I'm doing all these things. And you're using all of your energy running around for, like, to what end? So I think just the understanding that control's an illusion. Like it's an illusion. And you think you gain something, but all you're really gaining is a lot of anxiety. You talked about control and a relationship there. Yes. I've definitely had that.

And, I mean, I've done it to someone. Me too. But is that around? Because I feel like sometimes people go out with someone and they try and change them into the person they think they could be. Oh, oh, yes. Women are excellent. That's like, no, actually, I don't quite like you like this.

Could you just go over that way and then it would be great? I always like to flip that. What do we do about that? Yeah. I always like to flip that. Imagine if, so just say you thought, and it could be something serious or it could be something less serious, right? So in relationships, it's like the three A's, right? It's like abuse, addiction, adultery.

They're the big red flags, right? Those are the things we can't accept for our own safety. But when it comes to other issues, right, so someone's always late, they're always messy. They're not creative enough. They're not curious enough. Whatever it is you want to shift, I would flip it and go, okay, imagine if I said to you, don't be bubbly. stop it, it's annoying, it's not how we work it around it. You'd be like, it's futile.

Can I tell you a funny story? Yes, please. So when I was 12, my sister was six years older than me. So she would have been 18. She had really cool friends. And she had this friend of hers called Jamel. And I thought he was the coolest guy I'd ever seen in my whole life. And they were French.

And he said, but Davina, you're too speed. Trispeed is like, you're so manic. Yes. And after that, for about, I used to sit on my. hands and go like that but I was like literally like how do that feel awful because it wasn't you yeah you're not being yeah no to me success is perfect self-expression being you be unabashedly being you but so if you are trying to control somebody you are with as a boyfriend or a partner or a husband or a wife um interestingly if you are trying to control them too much maybe you're in the wrong

relationship? Well, a couple of things. It could, if, sometimes it's just us, sometimes it's just our anxiety thinking, do this, make sure you're home at this time, and it's just because we're afraid. But if someone is, it's just not compatible with you and it's not meshing and you kind of maybe even marry someone's potential or you think, oh, I can stop him from, I would just marrying someone's potential, sorry to interrupt. I was just thinking you said that, marrying someone's potential, sometimes I think I've seen friends do that and you think, oh wow, you did bring out the greatest version of that person by loving them without control has helped them become who they could be.

That's the ideal, right? Yes, and that's not controlling, right? That's not controlling. It's support, I think the best way to love someone is to really encourage and allow them to be exactly, there's like a magic that happens to Vina. When you're with someone who completely allows you to be you, with your quarks, with your weirdness, with the lens with which you see the world,

there is like a magic that unlocks. Haven't you felt it when someone is just so accepting? And you're like, I just want to be around her. I just want to be around him because it's not like, do I need to impress her? Yes. Wait, no, no, no, they're a Republican. They don't like that. Yeah, well, she only say Jesus, don't sweat.

I want to go home. I want to put my pajamas on and just go home. But when someone just allows you to be free, I mean, freedom is like really, the basis of the best life experience, being yourself, being who you are. And so if you're controlling or being controlled, I would just kind of look at that and say, you know, where are we maybe lacking some integrity here, ourselves, by being the person who needs to dominate?

Or if someone's controlling us, are we loving ourselves enough to know that that's kind of not really okay? How do you broach that with someone? But I think you're controlling me a bit. Some people, you can't, if you're maybe in a narcissistic, There is no hope in some situations. It's going to be a waste of energy. But I believe that when we can communicate clearly from a place of,

help me understand why it's so important to you that I. Who knows? Maybe there can be a cool resolution. Maybe you'll even become closer. Yes, maybe it'll be a fear in that other person that something's going to happen that was from their childhood. Yes. Is it ever really about the thing?

You know, Eckart Tolle said he says, the thing that you're upset about is never the thing you're upset about. Like, you know, someone gets a parking ticket and they're like, oh, they're going back to a, I always mess up. My dad said I always met. I never get it right. You know, or someone will say something like, oh, interesting orange blazer. And it's like my mom always said I was fat.

And, you know, and they really mean interesting orange blazer, like different kind of. And so what the heck is going on here? I always like to think, what's the subtext beneath the text? If we can just take a second. Say somebody's starting a business or when people are afraid of telling their opinion because it might upset someone. What's that about and how can you stop doing that? How can you be more, I'm just going to say how I feel and how you deal with it is up to you. But it's easy to say that for me to say that.

I find it incredibly hard to be strongly assertive against an idea or say something that I mean to say that might hurt someone's. feelings without, I don't know. So I have an opinion, you disagree, I'm scared to tell you because you won't like it, essentially. When we hold back, sometimes we lie, right? Sometimes we just completely abandon ourselves, right, in pursuit of just the peace of this relationship. Sometimes we actually even will abandon an idea or we won't go for it because this person

won't like it or this person says that's bad. You see people do this in like in so many different ways. when we behave or think or speak a certain way to keep the peace or because I don't want to disappoint that person, we're actually not treating that person with any respect because we're thinking you're weak. You can't handle it. I'm strong, so I'll just do what I have to do because I can't trust you to be okay. We can let people be disappointed. We can let people not like our decisions.

And that is actually an equal relationship. relationship the same way they can do it to us. And what happens if, say, because I know a couple of people who also get very, they hate the idea that someone won't like them. Well, what is that, right? Like, think about it. So, okay, number one, this is so, it's so funny. Imagine if you go and you speak in front of a thousand people, there are a thousand opinions

of you, right? There is. Something like, you're the best ever. Someone else is like, that was so boring. Same with a movie. Same with a restaurant. someone's like best and I'm like total crap. So number one, this is back to controlling. Like you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't, no matter how much you play up to them back and take a while to learn in life.

But if I'm just super sweet, but if I'm extra smart, but if I'm funnier, oh, but if I'm thinner, oh, you can't make anybody love you. And if your focus is, will she like me, will he like me, whether it's an intimate relationship or social media or maybe you have a certain level of influence in the one. world, oh boy, I mean, it's almost funny that we think that there is any modicum of control that we have over someone's response or someone's warmth towards us or the opposite. So when we are in our integrity, and I use this word a lot because, I mean, it sounds like formal and legal almost, like it's not ethics. It's really the origin of the world of the word integrity just means to be whole. your inside and your outside, it's to be, really just to be whole, to be the real you,

then when you know that you're just doing that, peacefully not proving anything, I think the need to be like just kind of diminishes on its own. Your intentions are good, you're living your life your way. I mean, look at it. How many ways can you live your life? Think about all the places you can live, the careers you can. There's never going to, people, I mean, in some parts of the world, if you're homosexual, you'll be killed. I mean, the world isn't this place where this is the way to be liked.

Yes. It doesn't even make any sense. So I think if I'm trying to make someone like me in a particular moment, I think that I just need a bit more self-love that day, or I need to speak more kindly to myself, or I need a good old dose of perspective. Yeah, so what you're saying is self-love because if you are trying to make someone like you, you're not going to be yourself, and then you're not going to like yourself because you're not being true to your... Yeah, congratulations. You're all these girls like you. you now and it's not really you. Yeah, they like someone else.

Exactly. And then that's you for the rest of your relationship with, yeah, awesome. Enjoy, enjoy yourselves. Yeah, you know, it's, and I think that when we pause and think about it, but most people, we don't pause and think about it. We just think, oh, this is the way to survive or this is the way to be cool or this is the way to make money. There are plenty.

There are lots of paths. And when we abandon ourselves, even if it looks good on the outside, like, you know, it's choosing between almost authenticity or belonging. I mean, this is a brilliant one for school. Yes. You know, at school when you're just trying to be in with the cool kids. Oh, yes. You know, you change everything about yourself, but you end up thinking, who am I?

Like, I don't know what's going on. But you belong. Yeah. Or maybe you belong. Yeah, but for how long? Yeah. And being who and wearing what and saying what and laughing at jokes. It's exhausting, do you?

I mean, who can keep it up for long? So when you can choose this authenticity, I think, slowly. It can happen one, like, degree at a time. One small, it's not like, today I'm going to be myself. It's just small, it's saying no and you mean now, lovingly, you know, saying yes to the things that really ignite some curiosity in you. Something else I really wanted to talk to you about. I'd love you to tell me about your transition where you had a massive career shift.

Because I think, like so many people will go through this, so many times in their life. But yours really was mega. you went from doing a job that you like, but to following your dream. How did you do that? I was working in the tech sector in Silicon Valley in New York for a decade. And I was making half a million dollars a year at age 30

and I don't have a college education. So I'm not even qualified. You know, a friend of mine, Jamie, she says, God doesn't call the qualified. God qualifies the cause. Yes. Meaning you take, you take, and again, use God in any way.

God does you understand it. Yes, yes. But I just believed in myself. The equal thing, the magic of thinking being, like what possibilities exist. So I started a side hustle right now. I mean, I love talking about side hustle. So did you know what the plan was? Did you think I want to, okay.

So side hustle. So I always loved helping people solve their problems, find a new way, achieve what they want to achieve. I always say, look, I'm obsessed with results. That's it. My obsession, if you work, like, if you come across my work and you want something, that's, I'm like, I joke, I've got a PhD in results, right? Come, let's go, we can do it, right? We can do it.

And I've got the faith for everybody and we've got, let's look at your options, let's go, let's go, let's go. Love it. And I started my side hustle and I announced it overnight. I'm a life coach. I like what you say on your website, you know, that confidence is key and get yourself out there. And you said something like, there are three million life coaches. Yes, right? And you're reading my page.

Yes. It's like, I've won. Yes. And I thought, oh, God, she's so right. Like, make the noise, be out there, make yourself seen, be visible. Yes, but that comes with confidence and being authentic. I mean, there are so many things at play. Yes.

I also know it's not everyone's job to like or follow me, and I don't want them to. Like, whenever you have any level of success in a traditional sense, because success is very subjective, right? For some people, it's being a great mother. For some people, it's going to church. For some people, it's really keeping a great help. Whatever it is, great, right? It's your definition.

You own it. But when it comes to success in the traditional cultural money, fame, if that matters to you, then it's going to come with a shadow. It always says you can't just get all the blessings, right? That's not how life is. So it's also really okay with me when people criticize me. And I've had my fair share, and I know that that will continue forever more. and I don't resist it.

What do you do with that? Nothing. Okay. Absolutely. So I'm allowed to create and show up, just like you, just like anybody, and people are allowed to respond. Again, there's the equality piece again. You're also allowed to show up.

I might not like it. That's okay. We're taking a quick break to talk about today's sponsor Fiverr. Have you experienced the immediate panic when you're asked to create something on the computer, but you have absolutely no idea how to do it. For me, it's social media. But I have really. realise that I can rely on Fiverr. It's an online marketplace. It's got talented freelancers who

specialised in different areas from social media and graphic design to marketing, website building and coding. I don't know what I mean. But with Fiverr, I can leave it to the experts and focus on the stuff I do best. So if you want to give Fiverr a try and I think you should, search fiver.com or click the link in the description and use the code Davina at the checkout for 10% off your first order. That's f-I-V-E-R-R-com. And don't forget, the second art. Let's talk about the sponsors of this podcast. Zoe membership, a personalised nutrition program.

I always get asked why I look after my body, and the answer, I want to look good naked. Joke. Don't worry, that's not it. I do it because I know what my health is worth and I want to have the best life ever. I mean, every decade has looked very different from the last, but with age comes wisdom, enough to recognise that the more I invest in my body, the more it pays me back.

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Oh, and by the way, as you clearly like podcasts, you should go and check out their new show, Zoe's Science and Nutrition. it's so good. I am a massive fan. I love how they do all of this research and they give it all away for free. So I want to go back to your side hustle. Oh yes, yes, yes, yes. Sorry, I got so...

Oh my God, we can... This is so much fun this conversation. But I left my... Well, so I was side hustling as a life coach. That's how I started out for 18 months, evenings and weekends, right? Working for 100 bucks an hour. Yeah.

I loved it so much. I was high on life. And I said to my husband, I said, look, I want to give this a full... swing of the back. Give me a year. Like I want, and he was like, do it. He's always really believed in me. And I went, it's terrifying to leave a job. You know, when, in the US has health insurance. I mean, there are so, it's, it's, it felt like a big risk. But then I thought about it. This is where we're different from other animals, right? We get to reason, right? A dog isn't like,

oh, that's just the Amazon guy. I don't need to bark. But that's how I feel like I act sometimes. I'm like, something happens and I'm like, ah, you know. So I can reason with myself and go, okay, so how risky is this? So I'm making great money. Yes, it's true. What's the worst that can happen? Really? It's a great exercise. And then you keep asking, and then what? And then what? And then what? So I'm like, okay, I don't get any clients. I use my savings. I'm depressed. All my friends who I work co-workers, they're like, yeah, what a loser? Right. And then what? Okay. And then we'll get even, a smaller apartment, that, okay, you plan it all out. You look at it.

Is it worth it? Like, is it, like, number one, what's the likelihood, really? If you've gone for it in your life and you've even had success in a career, you're pretty likely to have that spillover into any endeavor, because it's who you are, right? We attract who we are, right? It's not just what we think about or what we want. It's who we are.

And I thought, really, when I got to the bottom of, like, what the worst case is, I'd get another job. just like the job I was already in. Yeah. So I'm like, I'm actually living my worst case scenario. Like the worst case scenario is that I suffer for a year. I hate it and I go back to being a director of sales in a tech company. In this country, I feel like people think that talking themselves up is cocky.

But it's not. It's confident. Exaggerating aspects of yourself. is cocky. Do you know what I mean? It's not bragging if it's true, right? Like if you think about it. Yeah, it's not bragging if it's true, exactly.

Just say the bestselling book, you'd say I'm a bestselling author that would be on your bio. It's not, I'm better than you. It's, I'm a bestselling author. That's just... The truth. Yeah, that's just the truth.

And what is there to gain from not owning your strengths? There's no medal. No one's going to go, oh, she never bothered anyone. She never, you know, she never took up any space. Like, that's not why we're here.

Our temporary precious lifetime is not to bother anybody, not to take this, not to take it's to be you. I love the fact that you said our temporary precious space because I think when you do hit kind of 40, 50, you do start thinking, oh, actually now I haven't got all the time in the world. It is precious and it is temporary. What about if you've never really achieved what you feel you could achieve? You've been in jobs that were safe, that they weren't going to sack you from, that you feel comfortable in, that they really appreciate you in, but you feel like you can do more. That's scary in their life. Yes. How can you overcome that and be who you should be?

Don't discount who you are. I mean, so I remember I walk with this woman and she had a baby and she was trying to get back into the workforce, which can be a challenge, I understand. And she was working as a secretary for a construction company. And she was like, I don't know if I can get back into that. I don't know, I don't know. And I was like, okay, so tell me, what were you like in that job? Like, what? Like, I'd like brag on you.

What did you bring? Yeah. She's like, well, I'm like pulling teeth, you know? I'm like, oh, well, you know, I'm on time. Okay. I'm like, okay, I'm sick a little bigger, you know. Well, you know, my boss, he was like not that organized. And so if, you know, schedules were running behind, I'd just, you know,

you know, I'd make sure everything would still happen in the day. So he, and I was like, you anticipate news in advance. You're really proactive. Oh, wow. Gosh, that's really, it's an awesome person to have around. Like, what? Who got a support team? Like, you're, and then she's like, oh, yeah, and then one time.

Oh, and then she's like, I know. And then it's like, and do you know what he said? He said this other guy in the team. He was like, wow, she should, she could even be in construction. She knows all the lingo. And I'm like, you seem to me, Linda, like a total star. I'm like, I'd hire you. I'm like, what's going?

Okay, tell. And then see, nothing changed on the outside. Wow. Inside. It was focus, attention, right? Wherever you give your attention, it's going to expand. Can people ask themselves these questions? Yes, yes, and don't hold back, right?

Okay, what are the best parts of me? What are my strengths? Also, if you think about it, the most, again, traditional, like the way culture defines success, they do one thing or two things, right? So Tom Brady isn't also playing basketball. Like Tiger Woods isn't also a TV host. They lean into one thing. They probably don't really know much else about much else when it comes to professional.

Maybe they enjoy it or whatever. And everyone has many dimensions, I know. But we often think, oh, but I'm not like her or him. They're not like them either. Like they're, we can own the parts of us that are powerful and fun. And typically the things that we are good at we enjoy. That's not an accident. The universe is kind.

So why can't we just, Americans say a lot, own it, own it. But like, actually own it. I mean, culturally it's so interesting, isn't it, the way that different cultures feel. And I'm still thinking about the Brits kind of going, well, what are you good at? And asking yourself that question and going, well, I'm quite good at making tea. You know, I do it really strong and I let it sit for a couple of minutes and then put milk in after. But it's almost like, you know, I said earlier, when my partner said to me, you know everything. It's all inside you.

If I'm trying to find the answer to something, I sit on the edge of the bed and I ask my sister, but really I know I'm asking myself that I know what the answer is. And I hear the answer. And sometimes it's not the answer I want. Like sometimes I'm listening to, I think sometimes if somebody can find a place where they can go and sit and literally talk to themselves,

so what am I think? And then you say something and you go, no, be honest. And you know when you're not being honest. Or come on, think harder. you can actually have an argument with yourself where you will get to the bottom of it. What's interesting, if you've read the book, Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill.

I mean, yeah, I love this book. Who hasn't? I don't. But you know how he says of the book, have an imaginary group of mentors? So he said, I mean, dead people, right? I'd be like, okay, I'm going to ask Einstein about this. I'm going to bring my problem or bring my question.

Okay, so I'm like, okay, so I've got Einstein. I've got Oprah Winfrey. Oprah's a good one. You have them all around your little brown table. And you say, you know, I want to go for this thing that feels scary. I'm going to have you. Yeah. I'm taking you with me today.

You too. But when do you think about it, Napoleon Hill even says, he said, they're not giving you. They're not saying, well, on Thursday, you know, at three o'clock, they're saying, hmm, you can do that. This has been achieved before. You know how something's impossible until it's not? It's that very, it's told so many times with a story about the person who ran the mile and however many seconds. I can't even remember the statistic. But then everyone can now run that, not everyone, but a lot of people can reach a mile in this short of that.

Because they know it's been done before. Yes. And then people with disabilities climbing around Everest. I mean, someone needs to, maybe you're fast. And maybe you're fast in your family, whatever it is. But when you even speak to your imaginary group of mentors, they're actually only encouraging. I bet your sister's encouraging. Always.

I bet she's like, don't hold back. Go big. Yeah, she's never told me not to do something. She's not like, well, I don't know if you're smart enough for that. Or like, wait, have you looked in the mirror, you're not cute. I mean, what? No. Like, and yes, it's, but I think it's like this collective intelligence we get to tap into that's within us.

But often that door is just closed. We're like, what have I got to do today? What's he going to say? Oh, you know, two weeks ago, I made a mistake and I'm still reliving it. And I was weird at that party. That joke wasn't fun. Come on. Come on home, baby.

Like, let's. relax into like the truth and reality of who we are. And there is nothing to, nothing to gain from not being on your own side, nothing. And it doesn't mean you won't mess up. It doesn't mean you're some perfect angel who's flawless, but it means that you've got yourself, right? I mean you talked about it doesn't mean you won't mess up.

And, you know, you mentioned about applying for this job. I know lots of kids at the moment that are coming out of uni or leaving school because it's that time. Yes. July, August, and applying for jobs. And so many of them are like, God, I've applied for five jobs and they all said no. And I'm like, only five? Success is volume.

Right, volume is victory. Right, exactly. Only five? It's like, because people will say, oh, I've been just nonstop. And I'll say, how many actually? Oh, you know, a woman said to you recently, she's like, I've tried online dating. It's exhausting. There's no one.

I'm like, how many dates? She's like, two. I'm like, I haven't done all. I've been married pre-oblishing. online dating, but I'm like, come on, that could be in one night, two and one night, you could do back-to-backs, the same the next night, come on, you know, like, let's have some fun with this. But we give up really early, don't we? Can we talk about dating?

Yeah. So obviously, you know, like divorce is hard and sometimes for men and for women to pick yourself up after a divorce, I do feel like women, I do a dating show here called My Mum, Your dad, which is like midlife dating. And what we've noticed is that finding women to take part in the show is quite easy because women often, if they're bringing up children, in particular, will stay single for years and years, not even having sex, nothing, like no intimacy with anybody. But sometimes a man either will find somebody before they leave or they will leave and go

straight to somebody. Yes. But men don't stay single for very long. That's not a criticism. That is just what I've seen. Because it's harder to get male people to be single to be on the retreat. So what should you do as a woman say, you know, when there doesn't feel like there's a big call of people. Yes.

How do you find love second time round or third time round? Like, no judgment here. I always believe those love. I'm a romantic. I believe that... Me too. And there are a story... Okay, this is one thing that I love to do.

So, you know how I got my good job with no college degree? I would spend hours just listening and reading stories about people who are college dropouts. High school, like Richard Brownson, people who have all sorts of limitations as society would tell you. And it meant nothing. It meant absolutely nothing. People go, oh, yeah, but you need, oh, yeah, but you need... Do you? I mean, I would, if I were a woman now looking for love, I would focus on all the women over 40 who are bliss, who are in the most blissful relationship of their life. I would find the proof and evidence which exists, right? There's proof and evidence for everything, right? If you look at data and statistics, I wouldn't get out of bed in the morning ever. It's a doomsday out there, right? Yes. But the proof and evidence of, oh my gosh, I was just reading about this couple who got married at a nursing home. And they were in their 90s. And they were like holding hands and they were mentioning their late wives and husband's names

who said their blessing. I mean, okay, first, I would start there. I would go, okay, so let's see, right? People, it's not some wildly uncommon thing for people to be married a second time, a third time. And then when we, oh, yeah. So I was just thinking, I met a friend last week, in fact, who's in her 40s. And she was like, I don't feel like there's anyone. out there for me. I've been on my own for eight years. And what's interesting, she has another

career and she looks, she's a DJ, and she looks amazing. On the stage, she is this exotic, fantastic, but she said, you know, guys see me like that on the stage and then I'm not that person at the stage, I just don't feel confident anymore. And I was like, that is you on the stage. You are the same person. Yes. But then I thought, oh, look, when you're not on the stage, you don't, I'm not saying to people they have to get dressed up or put makeup on every day, but be the most beautiful version of you every day for yourself. Yes. Don't, you know, when you wake up, don't just put on your most sloppy clothing and your holy grey underwear.

And don't, don't brush your hair because what's the point? You're the point. You know, actually, you know, Devina, during lockdown, there were a couple of weeks there where I didn't put on makeup. And I didn't, I always liked to have perfume, all that just usual things. And I started to feel like old, like, I don't know. It was just nothing, invisible. Yes, I just didn't feel like me.

And I thought to myself, huh, one day I just, I'm like, I got dressed up as if I was going to work or something. Yeah. I was completely different. You know, when we, when we actually, this is, you know, people speak about manifesting a lot. It's only just embodiment. It's like showing up as being the person who is. And it is her, like she is the...

She's the sexy DJ. Yeah, exactly. And yes, she might have some granny knickers at home, who cares? But I think to myself, how do I want to feel? Find some sexy granny knickers. You can still wear big pants. Just make them really sexy. Come on.

But do what makes you feel... Because, you know, it's all about the feeling, right? That's all we actually ever want to, the feeling. We think we want money. Right. We think we want a man. We think we want a boat. We think we want some status.

We just want to feel good. And we can create that. And it's going to be a bit different for everybody, what makes you feel good. But why wouldn't she set herself up to just to focus on pleasure, to buy herself some flowers? Yes. To sit and sip her coffee.

And then you're kind of... They're tuned into something else. And you feel attractive. And I'm not talking about... Physicality. Physicality. I'm talking about a sensuous sort of. of something because you love yourself.

You are being loving to yourself. Yes. You create a thing where somebody wants to get a piece of that. Oh, like you're talking about you can change the atmosphere in a room. You can. So you're putting that out to men or women. Yes. And why not make it a practice where you feel good?

You have a nice bed. Like, you know, I remember years ago I was coaching a woman who was trying to manifest this dream house and she didn't have the money yet, right? So I said, okay, what's one piece of that perfect house you can have now? And she got herself the highest thread count sheets. She got herself the best two champagne flutes that she could afford. And she got like something else, like some antique mirror. And so like she was living in her dream.

Like there's always, and the feeling, like creating that feeling, because whatever we create, whatever we focus on expands. And so if we want to create something, we don't have to have everything perfectly figured out now. don't need the man right next to us who is just this Adonis, but we can start to feel like loved and we can love ourselves and we can take actions that are aligned with that in this energy of expectation and expectations are powerful force. And when we can get ourselves into that place of feeling good, feeling confident, even like what do we say? Most people wake up, I didn't get enough

sleep. Yes. I don't like my boss. You set yourself up for the day then, haven't you? I know. I know. I always think today's a very good day. Today's a very good day. Today's a very good day. Today's a very good day. Today's a very good day. Like, what, three sentences before you even put your feet on the ground, right? You can have little triggers in your home. Every time you shut your car door, take a breath. Gosh, what a beautiful life I have.

Hmm, I'm pretty cute. Like, come on, like, let's have some fun. When did we all get so serious? These are positive affirmations, aren't they? Little things that you can say to yourself every day. Because our inner critic is just your worst enemy. And I think, again, culturally the British, we are embarrassed to self-affirm.

Yes, which is why we need to do more of it. There has to be more examples of people who do it with no shame. Like, truly, what is the benefit? What is the payoff? I mean, if I'm sitting here criticizing myself, thinking I'm not good enough, how is that generous? Like, who's it helping? You know, it's almost like, okay, I don't want to take up. Say I think I don't want to take up space.

That's like a very common. Women actually, I even see, you know, and, you know, yeah. Okay, so me not taking up space. Okay, who's that helping? Truly. Like, does that mean someone else has a bit more space? No, because imagine if I said to you, you know what, I've been healthy my whole life. I'm going to be sick now so that someone else can be healthy.

You know, I'm going to pass that baton because I, you know, I've been healthy. So it's like, okay, I'm not going to take up space so you can have it. I know. It doesn't make any sense. And we are inspired and encouraged by people who are going for it. When you think about who's inspired you in your life, I'm sure it was women who've had similar kind of roles or who've taken similar strides or who've gone through things

that you haven't survived and have lived to tell all the stories. Haven't they helped you? And isn't it because they've taken up a little bit of space? Yeah. It's not like, I'll just be over here with my little meagre. Well, I think when you see somebody doing something, you think, oh, that looks good. And we're equal.

That looks fun. Oh, I think maybe I could do that. Maybe I'd feel better. So I think you're right. It's example, isn't it? Yes. Find examples of who you want to be. I love Sarah Blakely, for example, the founder of Spanx. And she failed law school, like her exam. I interviewed her also from Marie Claire. And she said, you know, you are your own best asset. Like, you are just your own best asset. And you can't expect anyone to be responsible for what happens. It's the magic of thinking big all over again. And I'm just so happy that she exists. I'm happy that she even exists to be an example of what is possible. And if you can be a real-life role model for someone in any way, you don't have to be a billionaire founder, but if you're kind,

if you're willing to be creative, if you're willing to be wrong by standing up for someone who maybe can't sign up for themselves, you are a real-life example of what's possible. And there is generosity and that. You know, I've coached a lot of people around shyness, or what we call situational shyness. Because often we are... Would that be what somebody would call social?

anxiety nowadays. It can be, yes. I mean, the terms can be slightly interchangeable, depending, but some people will say I'm shy or they'll confuse it with introversion. They're not the same thing. Right. How are they different? So introversion just means you need to be alone to gather your energy. Right. Like you're fueled from being alone. That's, you can be an introvert who's not shy. Absolutely. Right. So I'm introverted, but I'm not shy. Right. And you can also be. Oh, okay. So I feel, look, I don't always feel wildly confident, but overall I'm not shy. I'm happy to talk, you know, say my view, whatever it is.

But when it comes to what I refer to as situational shyness, it's like, oh, I'm just going to stand here and, you know, we're actually just afraid to be criticized. I've heard men talk about this. They assess all the other men in the room. Who's the alpha male? Where am I in the pecking order? what, you know, how do I fit in and, how do men deal with that in a room? I actually think that men don't get enough airtime sometimes

when it comes to mental health conversations. And if you look at the research, there's a lot of suicide rates among men. And especially in midlife. Yes. And women, it's okay for us to cry, right? Yes. I mean, we still might feel embarrassed or shame

or do it privately or in the shower. but I think that men, they're not encouraged. My partner and his best friend from childhood from when he was three, they were together this weekend. And they're both from up north from Leyland. And they were both talking about how much they love crying. And I was like, it was the greatest conversation ever. I was like, wow.

This is so good. I know. So I think you're absolutely right. They can't express themselves. enough, which leads to a hierarchy of the strongest. I think men don't feel like they have the same permission, which is why we need to hear things like this. You know, when I say to my husband sometimes, because he's stoic,

I'm like, you're okay, you're okay. It's taken now nearly 15 years, yeah, nearly 15 years of marriage. Congratulations. Yeah, thank you. He's like, you know what, I just, I don't feel quite right. I don't feel quite like myself. And there is a bit of, there's still a bit of pulling out, but when there's no judgment, right?

Or when we, no matter who's doing it, who's showing up and being vulnerable and being available. I think really ideally young you can have these conversations. But we've skipped that, like that. Now this is happening more. I was talking earlier about looking at kind of thinking about the end of your life. What does your last chapter want to look like? I'm hoping my last chapter will be decades. But who do I want to be?

What do I want to do? and I see more and more friends of mine embarking on spiritual journeys. How do you do that? What is a spiritual journey? How can it help you? We were talking about faith. Yes. What does it look like?

Oh my gosh. I believe that the best ride you can never have in your life is really being yourself, having what I refer to as perfect self-expression, but also allowing it to be easy. Right. No one's going to tell you anything is easy, right? Being married's hard, being single is hard. Having a job's hard, not having a job is harder.

Having kids is hard, not having kids. Oh, that must be so hard. We're taught that it's a struggle, it's strife, it's hustle, it's, oh. And what if it's not? Like, what if, even think about... You've just absolutely blown my mind there. But think about it. The best things in your life, I mean, even intimacy, you know...

Fell into place. Is that what you mean? Yeah. Or even just like the day to day. Think about, imagine if I said, fall asleep right now. Do it right now. That's not how we fall asleep. We fall asleep when we're calm, right?

Think about even some opportunities or people in your life that you've attracted. Have you been, I need a man right now. I need a job right now. It's like, huh, right, ships come in over a calm sea. Right. When we can create that calm sea, because we create our inner condition, right, as within, so without. then what if it's easier, don't we think? What if, like, my motto, right, let it be easy.

Like, what if, what if, I mean, you know what, and you know what, the relaxed woman? Think about how we speak about women. Oh, she's fearless. Oh, she's a boss. Oh, she's a powerhouse. Oh, great. What about, she's so relaxed.

That I haven't heard of this movement, but I would like to lead it. You know, like, the relaxed woman. What if that? It's actually a great question when there's a problem. Three questions. There's a problem, a struggle, anything to deal with. Number one, how serious is this really? It feels like do or die. That's how our primitive brain is set up. Number two, what are my options? Really? I don't just think there's one or two. There are at least three solutions to every problem.

And then number three, how can I let it be easy? Wow. Ease. What if it's been easier all along? And we realize it late. I mean, what I'm seeing here is simplifying. We make life very complicated. Simplifying your life. Especially high achieving women. Yes, a lot of overcomplication.

A lot of, there are a thousand steps. Even someone said to me recently, oh, I want to start a podcast. I'm like, great, you've got a microphone start today. Yeah. Oh. No, I've got, I need a six months. I don't know, do you? We start with four or five episodes.

Yep. Yep, here's a tech platform. Go. It's free. start today. So, I love you. I love you. Just want to say that.

And we've covered a lot of topics today. Yes. But if somebody was listening, watching, and they were going to take home one thing that you said, what would you like that to be? I would say, beginning again, being a fan of Davina, being listening to this, maybe a question you can ask yourself,

in any situation is how can I let it be easier? And that is the most loving thing you can do for yourself. Oh my gosh, bring it in. Oh, Davina! I absolutely love you. You too. I mean, oh my God, so good. So good.

Thank you.