Begin Again with Davina McCall - Dame Meera Syal: 12 Years Caring For My Parents & Surviving Divorce

Episode Date: October 1, 2026

What happens when both of your parents receive life-changing diagnoses within weeks of each other? In this episode of Begin Again, Davina McCall sits down with Dame Meera Syal. Meera shares the gruelling reality of caring for her mother after her cancer diagnosis while her father was living with Alzheimer’s, describing dementia as a “slow, long goodbye” and reflecting on how her family found strength, support and moments of connection through an incredibly difficult 12 years. She also opens up about growing up British Asian, feeling like a misfit, and nearly giving up on acting when she couldn’t see anyone like herself on screen.  From ‘Goodness Gracious Me’ and ‘The Kumars at No. 42’ to becoming a writer, actor and comedian, Meera explains why telling your truth can help others feel less alone. The conversation also explores divorce, co-parenting, the unexpected possibilities of an empty nest, surviving assault, and staying resilient throughout life’s ups and downs. 🌟Like, comment and subscribe for more honest conversations about purpose, resilience, love, loss and beginning again. Follow us here: 📸www.instagram.com/beginagain  🎥https://www.tiktok.com/@beginagainpod  ✨Sign up for the Begin Again newsletter for behind-the-scenes access, recommendations and much more: https://linkly.link/2g2xm  Follow Dame Meera Syal here: https://www.instagram.com/meera.syal  We'd love you to share your Get Busy Living stories with us at https://getbusyliving.beginagainshow.com/ (00:00) Intro (01:17) Getting Her Damehood (08:16) Meera As A Misfit Child (10:31) Studying At Manchester University (12:22) The Importance Of Gratitude (19:20) Monzo GBL Ad (20:51) British Heart Foundation Ad (22:02) The Play That Changed Her Life (26:32) Her New Book 'Vigilauntie' (34:04) Making 'Goodness Gracious Me' (38:22) Monzo 90 Days Ad (39:35) Garnier Ad (43:17) Married At 25 (45:57) Staying Friends After Divorce (50:41) Having Her Second Child In Her 40s (53:07) Her Marriage To Sanjeev (58:57) The Reality Of Caring For Two Sick Parents (01:06:29) Speaking Out About Sexual Assault Sponsored by: Results from the 2024 Lost Pensions Survey by the Pensions Policy Institute. The value of your pension could go up or down and you could get back less than you put in. You need a free Monzo current account to open a Monzo pension. Download Monzo. Monzo Current Accounts are for 18-70 years old only and UK residents. Ts&Cs Apply. Join the 'Say Yes Club' and hear more about our events here - https://events.beginagainshow.com/  British Heart Foundation: To help fund lifesaving research, visit https://bhf.org.uk/keepusbeating  to donate now and keep us beating. Garnier Nutrisse: UK's NO1 hair dye, chosen by 2 million women. Davina is shade 5 Mocha Brown. Find yours: www.garnier.co.uk/our-brands/hair-colour/nutrisse-creme Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This family is on the brink of Civil War. Mobland, the hit original series is now streaming on Paramount Plus. The other Harrogans don't know than yet? In Google us. From the underworld of Guy Ritchie. Do you want to step up the ladder? I want combat dead. Starring Tom Hardy, Pierce Brosnan and Helen Mirren.

Do I have to do everything myself? You want to want! I'll give you a... Moblad. New season is now streaming on Paramount Plus. I was homeless, sleeping on floors, and it would have been really easy to go, I can't do this. But I don't think I'm the piece of fucked up shit,

I thought I was, because your greatest revenge is to be happy. But we had no idea this is what was coming next. Today, I'm speaking to one of Britain's most celebrated actresses, Dame Mirosail. If you'd have told 10-year-old me, I'd be making a living out of the thing. I'd love to more than anything.

Would not have believed you, and here I am. But it's not easy. and I'd only been in the business about a year, year and a half. Money had run out. Luck had run out. But my parents didn't think being created was a waste of time.

And this director said, I've just seen your show. I'm about to do a nine-month tour and would you like to be in it? It was like the universe was saying, go and try. Make your parents proud. But then what happened next?

Both my parents got ill at the same time. My mom had cancer and my dad was diagnosed with Alzheimer's. It was probably the hardest phase of my life because all you can think about is this is the cruelest, But through it all, there's something incredibly inspiring about Mirror's story because no matter how your life has unfolded, you are always allowed to begin again.

Can I quickly just say Dame? Myr-Ros, Zael. I mean, that is good, isn't it? A Dameford. It's an odd one. It's, yes, amazing. What was that like getting that last year? It was a gorgeous day.

it was right in the middle of the heatwave in June but then we had one day which was sort of autumnal and a bit cloudy and it was like thank God because you know you got your finery on right exactly yeah exactly and it was at Windsor Castle which is of course feels very special yeah it felt I suppose it felt like a marker of some kind um because my parents were with me when I got my first one which was my MBA yeah my mum was with me when I got my CB and then And this one, they're both gone now. So it felt like, oh, they're not here for this one. But they would have loved it.

And it was weird because when I was offered the MBA, which was in 97, that was the first year. That was the year that I took my father back to the house that he'd fled in Lahore in 1947, 50 years on when he became a refugee with the partition of India. and I took him back with BBC Radio 4 to the house he'd fled and it was a very emotional journey and that was the year that the effects of empire

on my family and on millions of other people really came home and then that year I was offered a medal with empire on it wow yeah I know that was quite conflicting very of course it was Of course it was.

And I think it's something to do with the fact that empire is in the title. Because, for example, in France, they have the Lesion D'Honneur, you know, it's something about that word that made it difficult. But what changed my mind, I think, was the way that my parents reacted to this. Because my dad said, one generation on, the empire threw me out of the how am I loved. And here's my daughter being given an acknowledgement. of all the damage that was done, maybe. And for them, it was some kind of healing.

Yeah. So I think it was their reaction that persuaded me. That maybe it was a good thing to have. And I really do understand people's divided reactions towards it. But I think it's, you know, when you're younger, you just want to burn everything down. And then as you get older, you think, can I change things by being part of something

and speaking up and being a symbol of some kind of change. So I think in that spirit I thought it was a good thing to accept. And I know that the South Asian kind of culture had quite a strict ideal around marriage and mixing religions and things. And your parents were quite naughty really. Yeah, they know. So just please can you explain in which ways they were kind of bucking the. the norm. Well, Davina, I come from Rebel Stock.

Yeah, Rebel Stock. Probably not surprising. That's a perfect description, isn't it? It doesn't surprise me at all, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. No, they did. They fell in love at college. My dad was Hindu.

My mom was Sikh, which is not the most unusual combination, but my mum's family were fair traditional Sikhs. And they married in secret. And then my mom actually went back to college to finish her degree without telling them she got married. I mean, bearing in mind, I'm bearing in mind this is in the 50s. Yes, 58.

You know, this is crazy. Crazy, crazy. But that's how strong the love was. I just think it was a coup de fudre. It was one of those, yeah. Can I just wait? Hold my hand there. You said coup de fudre.

I'm half French. Oh. And that's such a, it's one of my favorite expressions. It's it? I love it too. Like a thunderbolt, like, pshu. Yeah, I know. I know.

How lucky. So many people have that. Some few people have that, right? So that's what happened. But also how brave it was really at the time. Because I know the religion thing, it was a similar faith, but still for traditional Sikh, quite different. Yeah. And then running away and getting married and not having an arranged marriage.

I mean, what kind of percentage of people at the time were having arranged marriages? Majority. Really? I would say 90 to 95%. Wow. It was the norm. It was a norm. And it still is the norm in traditional places.

in the villages, certainly not in the cities. India's changed so much. But yeah, highly unusual. But I guess in a way, I think they both, you know, had quite hard times coming out of a newly independent India. And I guess when there's so much chaos around you, when you find something that's certain. Like I don't know much about what's going to happen to me. Life is in chaos. We haven't got much money.

We don't know what's coming next. This I know. I need to be with you. This I know. I know. You're that lovely. You know, and they came over here and that must have been tough

because your dad came first. Yeah, and then mum came a couple of months later, not long after. Yeah, it was a time where the signs dropped in the boarding houses, no Irish blacks or dogs. It was that kind of time. So they both ended up at the beginning doing jobs way below their qualifications

because that's just what happens when you're a newly arrived immigrant. But, you know, gradually they found their feet. They found they gravitated towards where the other Punjabis were, the North Indians that they knew. That their friends became like family. Because when you don't have your family, those early relationships for those newly arrived immigrants. And it's the same pattern in every country. Like if you go to New York and you see a little Italy in Chinatown, it's like, of course, every new community just gravitates towards other people because they're so lost.

And they just want to hear their language. eat their food, set up their language schools, just be like, you know, I'm far from home. Let me set up an alternative home here. And I suppose the danger is, is if you stay there, if that continues, because it means you're not going out and you're not actually embracing the new culture. Yes. But that's what my generation did. So we were the bridge.

I was just going to say that was quite interesting for your parents because you're British-born. Exactly. And for them, you are the bridge. Absolutely. What were they like with you? Because obviously they were rebels. But were they quite, did they try and be strict with you? And were you like, hang on a minute, you can't do this.

Hang on a minute. It's great ammunition, isn't it? Really? Really? You're going to put your foot down? They were amazing actually because I was a misfit. I was just a weird, weird kid. Why?

I just wasn't like any of the other little Indian girls around me who were all very well behaved and had long straight hair. I mean, I had this. Long straight hair, wore pretty dresses, liked maths, you know, or wanted to be doctors, oh my God. You know, wanted to be doctors or pharmacists

or sensible things, you know, knew all the prayers. And he was this weird tomboy, feral kid growing up in a little mining village on my bike all day. Loved books, loved reading, wanted to do English. What was your favorite book? When I was young Alice in Wonderland.

Was it? When I was a teenager Pride and Prejudice, I mean, quite classic choices. But in both cases, the weird girl in the middle was me. I was Alice going, oh, all the hell is going on here. But anyway, I'll have another swig, whatever is in this bottle, and I'll grow big and I'll go small and I'll go through that door. I don't know what's going on, but here's the adventure. And then, you know, obviously Elizabeth Bennett and Pride is too gobby.

Nobody wants to marry her. Not pretty enough. one of five girls, four girls, who's going to want her. So in both cases, these books, I was looking for myself, representation of the weirdness of myself everywhere, and I didn't find it. And you wrote poetry quite young, didn't you? Oh, yeah. Little when you started writing.

Four years old. Wow. Crap. But still, I mean, to want to write poetry at four is quite something, isn't it? Yeah, well, my dad was a wonderful singer where I was so. by music and he loved poetry to Urdu poetry. My mom was a primary school teacher surrounded by books. She taught me to read really early on.

So I guess that was encouraged. My imagination was encouraged. What was amazing about my parents is they didn't think being creative and imaginative was a waste of time, which is what a lot of South Asian parents did think that anything like that was a hobby. It wasn't how you made a living. It wasn't a job. It wasn't useful. But for some reason, both my one.

wonderful parents thought, no creativity is as important as maths. And I think, you know, obviously you had a gift, really, for English because you went on, didn't you? You went to university. To English and drama. Where did you go? Manchester. I mean, brilliant, right? Yeah, it was.

Was it brilliant then? Yeah. Oh, my God. It was. Because, I mean, my God, now it's like. Yeah. But it was, I mean, that was just when the. Hasienda was opening.

Yes. You know, it was just because, yeah, right. And my department was full of incredible people because the drama department then had a really interesting policy. Although it didn't, grades wasn't its first thing. They just went for people they thought were interesting. So there were people in my department that had got two E's. They may be in predicted three A's.

For some reason they flunked them, probably having too much fun. But the department still went, you're interesting. So I was surrounded by incredibly creative, interesting people. And that brought me out of my shell because I was a very young 18-year-old, right? I'd grown up in a little town. Hadn't had a gap year. I'd just turned 18.

And here I was in this what seemed to me incredibly sophisticated, a bunch of people who have done things like, you know, it's been studying puppetry in Poland from there. Oh, great. I've been wandering around the Mandah Center. I'm eating chips. Puppetry in Poland, I can just imagine.

It was a bit like that. Yeah, so funny. It's like, oh, I'm such a hick. I'm such a hick. So it took me a long time to feel like I found my feet, but the thing that saved me was being able to do the thing I laughed and I never thought I'd get to do. And I still wasn't thinking about it as a career.

It was just so grateful to be there. Yeah. And I got to act in loads of things and start writing my own stuff. And it just unlocked me, you know? Can we talk about gratitude for a bit? because it's so important. Yeah, and gratitude is, it saves a lot of people because if you can be in a dark moment

and find just even something tiny to be, but a lot of people find gratitude a problem, but you are literally, you've been blessed with it from the get-go. Where's that come from? I think if you come from a background where there's a great deal of intergenerational trauma, as I was on both sides of my family for all those reasons we've talked about

and their experiences, and my experiences, I suppose, growing up as a kid, it was tough sometimes, as being the only one and visible. There's one of two ways you can go. You can become scared and bitter and fearful, but you can rise to it and go, my parents survived that and they still are full of love, and they give that love to me, and they have optimism. Which way am I going to go here?

I'm going to go forward, frightened of what life is going to throw at me, or am I going to go, I survive that? That's great. I've got those parents, that's great. And honestly, it's something I've got better at, and I can't say I've always been good at it, but I think as you get older, you realize actually the way that life works better for you

is if you do that. Otherwise, you're just in a spiral of fear and pessimism and poor me. It's not the why me. The why not me is a much better outlook. It's like shit happens to people. Why shouldn't it happen to me? That's all right.

this is not all of my life this bit and it will get better and then it'll get bad again and then it'll be amazing so why not celebrate the amazing bits and just know you can get through the bad bits that's what's got me through them anyway I'm going to write that down after this

why me not why me why not me I love that but it's true though right that's so good and at any point in your life you can look around you and see a thousand people who are having a much worse time than you You can also decide to look at the 10,000 people who seem to have it all. Number one, they don't.

Yeah, what's in their heads. Lots of time they're pretending, right? And number two, don't do that to yourself. I'm not anti-social media at all. I think there are lots of really good things about it. But that's one of the things that's a problem when people believe what they see. You can't trust anything you see. It's all curated.

It's all curated. Yes, it is. I'd love to talk to you a bit more about your, what you produced at university and some of the work you did there. Is it, did you produce something towards the end where you played a lot of different parts? Can you talk me through that particular? That is the project that literally changed the course of my entire life. So how did you come to do this project and who were you working with and Simon?

So it was a one woman show called One of Us and I approached my friend, Jackie Shapiro, dear friend, who was a fellow student, who was a writer, and I said, you know, I've never written anything. Well, not the play. I'd written prose. I want to do something about what I'm feeling. But there is no one else to work with. If there was another brown person in the entire arts department,

I would find that I was the anyone. Were you really? Well, well done you, because you literally paved the way. One black guy. Wow. And me. That was it. Wait.

Yeah. First off, I just want to ask you, because I know that that was also the case at school, right? Yeah. One of three. Because I've never experienced that. Yes, I know. What is that like? What do you feel like?

Defended. You wear armour. Yeah, okay. All the time. You're ready. You're ready. You're alert for who's going to accept you, who isn't. Am I going to fit in?

Do I shape shift into this group? Right. You become fantastic at code switching. Reading as well, rooms. Absolutely. You find humour because humour opens doors and humour stops people from hitting you in the face. You can make them laugh. Oh my God, it's so...

Yeah. You become very like that bunch of boys walking down the street seems like maybe I should cross the road here. Wow. And you can have a vibe, right? All the time. Your radar's always on. And the funny thing is, Davini, you don't realise it's on until you go to a place where it's not. So like the first time I went to India, I want my shoulder just went, and I thought, oh my God, I'm walking down the street and everybody looks like me.

I don't know what that feels. This is what it feels like. I'm breathing different. It's so weird. It's an unconscious thing. So yeah, you become very adept. And probably one of the reasons I became a creative because that's a great sort of code switching and mask changing. and reading people, all the things you need to be an actor and a writer.

And all of these times in your childhood where you were basically the only one. How much racism did you experience? I mean, and even casual racism, like, where people don't even know. Yeah. Is it like all the shades and unexpected times? I guess in the 70s it was really out there. Yeah, it was, yeah. Yeah.

So, you know, NF painted on the house and stuff like that. Wow. Yeah, that kind of thing. kids coming into the park that weren't from the area that didn't know me that you kind of got you got used to it but what I found very heartening is that that my community and the black community really rose to it you know there were so many so many amazing movements the anti-Nazi league and all those rock against racism all of those things that the many the Southall uprisings that was when the whole South Asian

community rose up and through the National Front up and of South or where they were marching. And it made me realize that if you're going to combat this kind of fascism, you've got to do it together. You've got to be united. You've got to find your tribe. It's no good sitting in your house crying. Do something about it, but do it in numbers. Find your like-minded people.

And they are everywhere. But they're often silent. But they're there. We're worried about climate change. We're all worried about AI. That's on top of everything else that's happening. Very easy to scapegoat people. you're frightened.

It's happened in every, every point in history where the world is uncertain. Who can we blame? Who can we blame? Who can we blame? Instead of thinking, how can we fix it? And how can we fix it together? And at the times that history has changed, it has been mass movements, the women's movement, the civil rights movement, the anti-fascist movement, of all been times where people have

just collectively stood up. The worst thing is feeling like you can't do anything. Yes, powerless. Yeah, absolutely. Monzo sponsoring begin again to help us win back some time so we can do more of what we love. I wanted to know what that thing was for you. So let's have a look and see who we've got.

Mandy has a secret dream. Even her family doesn't know what it is yet. So there's something that I've always wanted to do. I don't even think my kids know about it, but I used to live in Singapore. And every year I'd watch the fighter games. jets come over and practice for National Day. I would sit with my nose pressed against the window going, oh.

I wish I could fly in a fighter jet. So that's my secret desire to fly and fight a jet. Oh my God, Mandy, this is amazing. I can't stop thinking about the feeling that will give you when you do it. It's like an unstoppable thing now, this desire. You've said it out loud. Can't take it back now. It's going to happen.

So let's do this. Let's say yes more. In fact, I'm going to make it happen right now. I'm calling it the say yes club. We're going to take one thing we've always wanted to do and we are actually going to do it. So I'm going to put a link in the description for you to come and join us because that's exactly the thing that Monzo is here to help with. They put our money to work in the background, sorted, saved, sent where it needs to go. So our energy is free to say yes to more things in life. Monzo Current accounts are for UK residents age 16 plus T's and Cs apply. Right, I need women to listen to this sponsored message from British Heart Foundation

because we are finally talking more about what happens to us during menopause. The sleep, the brain fog, the hormones, all of it. But we still don't talk nearly enough about our hearts. Cardiovascular disease is the biggest killer of women over 45 worldwide. And after menopause, the risk increases significantly. Now, please don't hear that and panic. I'm telling you this because I think women deserve to know about this. And because there are brilliant people working every day to do something about it.

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on that. And that's me. Welcome to Ice Cove. Where are the penguins? That's Antarctica. We're the other one. North of North. Stream all episodes available on CBCJJM. In communities across Canada, hourly Amazon employees earn an average of over $26 an hour. Employees also have the opportunity to grow their skills and their paycheck by enrolling in free skills training programs for Indiesonement. demand fields like software development and information technology. Learn more at aboutamazon.ca. Sorry, I've massively digress here because I'd like to go back to your one woman play that you wrote with your lovely friend, Jackie.

Yeah. Well, it was like primal scream therapy, Dina, frankly. All the stuff I was feeling about being different, about being lost, about not having role models, about where I was going to fit in, about wanting to act so desperately and knowing I would never do it. But how many different parts did you play? About 15? I mean, that's the best show reel you could ever do, right?

I want to act, I'm going to play 15 people. Yeah. I mean, amazing, right? You would ask you to do. There was no one else to act with. Yeah. I literally had to improvise with myself. It was completely mad.

Just kind of jumping into different characters. And I would improvise and Jackie would write it down and then shape it into a narrative. Oh, that's a good way. Yeah, it was a great way of working. And she did an amazing job. And that play is still being done in pockets. Is it? Yeah.

Amazingly. Isn't that amazing? It is amazing. And it started off as a little student show at Manchester in our little studio where we could do a show every month. Monday night was studio night. Put it on there. Didn't think anything of it. Have this amazing reaction of friends coming up going, we didn't know how you felt.

We've known you for four years and we had no idea this is what was going on in your head. And I thought, that's why it's important to make stories. Because how do people know? They don't mind readers. How do they know? Your show was so good. You got invited to go to Edinburgh, right? Yes, went to the Nassau Student Drama Festival and got picked for Edinburgh.

I mean, amazing. Won some prizes there. And literally two weeks before I was due to go and take up an MA place and do, you know, go into academia and... Wait, wait, can we just blow your horn for a minute? Right. And just say, what did you get in your degree? Everybody. Listen to this.

Listen to this. I'm proud of her. All right. You're like my mom. I got a double first. She's got a double first. In English and drama. Just in English and drama.

Right, right. Not that. Has anyone ever asked me that before? Well, I am so proud of you. Double first? What? I didn't go to uni. I'm like, I think you're the most amazing person ever.

Well, that's probably because I should have been doing more sex and drugs than rock and roll. I did that for you. There you go. Thank you. But what I was going to say was there's something about your story. I think the reason why I love it so much that you got a double first was that your parents were like, go do what you want to do.

You don't have to become a doctor or a dentist which is what South Asian parents were wanting other children to do and you knew that. And you were so grateful that they let you do what you wanted to do. I wanted to be really good at it. You're so right.

I wanted to repay that. But not what you did. Yeah. And they must have been literally beside themselves. Yes, and relieved because in their head was like at least you've got a good degree

so if the acting doesn't work out you can go and do something else and I was about to go and do something else. Yeah, you had two weeks right? Yeah, you were just saying. Because the thing is I looked at the profession out there and I didn't see anyone like me or if I did they're in tiny little

parts in sitcoms these tiny little cliched stereotype roles and I thought oh am I kidding I might have done everything here at uni but this is uni that's real life. There's no one that looks like me. There's no scripts that tell stories about me who's going to employ me? This is crazy

So I literally had my life plan for two years. At Edinburgh, this director called Carol Heyman walks into the venue. He said, I've just seen your show. I'm about to do a play at the Royal Court with joint stock theatre and then a nine-month tour. And would you like to be in it? And he's a job with an equity card. I know. I know.

I mean, it was one of those higher power like... I know. What? And it was like someone. the universe was saying, we know you how much you want this. What a shame if you don't even try. Go and try. Go and try.

And it kicks me out of that sort of immigrant mindset that I had. Of course I did, which was security, safety. You know, get the job with the pension. Do that make your parents proud. Do it. It was like the universe was going, no, no, no, no, no. Try this first. Just try this.

You know, if you get to 35 and it's still not happen, fair enough, go and do the other thing, but don't regret it. Yes. And because I've been surrounded, and this is why the memoir's called Vigilante, because I've been surrounded by aunties, it'd never feel their potential. So this is, well, I mean, I probably should have done this at the beginning, if I'm honest, you know. But anyway, Mira is an artist. She's a comedian. She's a writer. She is also a novelist, but she is also just written a memoir.

called a vigilante a memoir and I like this in it and vigilante we were talking about this earlier because I was like that is a very clever play on words and who came up with that

My daughter Millie came up with that yeah well done genius because she said mum that sums you up you know the ante bit of you which is wear your vest have you eaten

who you're going out with and then the vigilante bit of you which is that you bust all these things open and you're trying to, you know, be the best of the aunties and avoid the worst bits of the aunties. So I thought it was a brilliant title. I mean, that is actually very clever, isn't it?

It's very clever. And an auntie is kind of like a woman, and it doesn't have to be, she's not necessarily even part of the family. She could be a friend, but she's a woman with experience in life who through that has a right to kind of tell you what to do if you're younger than her. Totally. that you've somebody out of Beverly

and you know what a lot of my friends have had them my friends up north Welsh friends Irish friends yeah Greek friends you say auntie and a girl yeah African friends

it's like it's part of lots of older cultures and older communities and in my case it was my mom and dad's friends you know all the other Punjabis that arrived

and because as I said before when you don't have your real family these friends become family and auntie and uncle were just respectful terms that we were told to use for any elder, any man or woman, mom and dad's friends. I like it. You would never think of going, all right, Jitinda, you get a cuff around the year.

It's like, that's uncle to you. You don't call him by his name, right? So it's a term of respect, really, isn't it? Absolutely. But you're quite right, because we were brought up communally. And I don't think the nuclear family works anyway. I think it's a good way to be brought up communally. Or when you say that, is it like it takes a village, like everybody takes care?

of everybody. Yes. I love that. We need to do that more. Totally. Totally. Totally. Too much pressure on two parents to think, you need your mentors. You need, so these aunties were very instrumental because they, they for me, with my mom are my examples of womanhood. How do I grow into a woman? Here you are. Here's a whole bunch of you. But the thing is, some of them are really bloody scary and repressive. Yes. And they enjoy the scary, right? Right. Just. Tirearchy thing of it. Totally. So there were those aunties that went, you will do maths, you will marry this person. Don't sit with your legs apart. Don't laugh too loudly. You can only get fat after you're married. That's one of the titles in that these are the things that were said to me. All about squishing young women. Squish, squish, squish. And then there were some other amazing aunties that really inspired me. But a lot of them were unfulfilled. A lot of them didn't get the chances. And it's only when I became an auntie myself. that I began to realize that a lot of that fear and the controlling behavior

came from their own disappointment and their own missed opportunities and their own... the fact that they didn't get to spread their wings and they were trying to protect me but also were mourning their own lost opportunities. There's a little bit of like almost not wanting you to get what they could,

couldn't have. Yes. Like, well, I didn't have it and you can't have it. Exactly. Not in a mean way, I mean, but just, or imagine if you go for it and you don't get it. So I just don't try avoid the disappointment type of. Avoid the disappointment. There's a lot of wrapped up in that.

A lot wrapped up. And this whole thing as well, like the family honour is sort of always the crown on a young girl's head. It doesn't matter what the men do. It's your responsibility to keep the family. honor. So all of that fear, well, it's all about patriarchy in the end, of course it is. I know a lot of these rules are just to keep women in their place. And I had to really pick through all of that. That was part of becoming a vigilante, I suppose, and deciding what are the bits of these amazing women that I want to preserve and keep? Their compassion, their strength,

their fearlessness, their huge shoulders of steel, hold up the whole family. the language, the humor, the food. There's so much of my culture. I love, love, love, love and want to keep in history. And then picking out those bits that were like, I don't think this is about culture. Yes. Beating your wife is not a tradition.

Making your wife walk 10 paces behind you isn't tradition. Squashing your wife down when she has an opinion or wants to laugh loudly. Did you see that a lot? That's not culture. Sometimes. Not from all. Not at all. Some of my auntsies would, you know, try that and they'd kick you across the room.

But no, there were. There were. And a lot of it was sold as culture and tradition. And I had to suddenly take a step back and go, that isn't. That really isn't. That's about controlling women. I mean, I think because you're famous, you're like an auntie to lots of women, not just of your culture. I mean, I think we as famous women are aunties.

I feel like that to women who are going to be menopausal. That's like what I've chosen to do. Yes, yes, yes. And it's like I owe it to you to show you that it's going to be okay. That's what you're doing. That's a really nice way of putting it. I mean, I suppose I do worry about being held up as the representative because you're so aware, aren't you, that you can't possibly speak for everyone.

And there will be lots of people that disagree with me or what I do. You and me do something really naughty. then all of a sudden everything we represent is timeless. Absolutely. But the problem is when you speak out or when you're the only one, you become representative whether you want to be. Whether you want it or not. Yeah.

Because there's so few of you, right? If there was a million versions of women like me, I'd just be one more. So it's a pressure. There's a lot. Yes. So you have to curate that very, very carefully. You do, even if you don't want the responsibility, in a way you have to take it on.

and go, I have to be really careful about what I put out there, what I say, and always to put it under the umbrella of, this is just my truth. Yes. It might not be yours. Please come forward and speak yours, because the point is to come forward, right? Everyone's story is valid. I love what somebody said once. There's three versions of the truth.

There's my truth, your truth and the truth. Yeah. No, right. And everybody sees things in a different way. So as many different voices as we can all have in the world, expressing how their feeling is good. But I realise that must be a great pressure for you. And I think we're talking a lot about you need more people to step forward.

So when did you find the team that you went on to go and make goodness gracious me with? Like how did that happen? Oh, that happens sort of quite organically, I suppose. I'd been working on a show called The Real McCoy, which was amazing. Britain's first black sketch show. Yes, it was so good. Yeah, so I was just a guest on that and a writer. And Anil Gupta was a script editor.

And of course, you know, like an auntie at a wedding. I spot the other brown person in the room and go, hello, or you. Come talk to me. And we became friends. and he's hugely talented, it still is. And I said, you know, this show's amazing. But of course, what about our version? Don't you think there could be a world in which we could do a British Asian sketch show?

And he went to the BBC. They said, we don't know what that is. Wow. Our Asians funny was the subtext. And we said, well, we don't know. Our Asian's funny. But you have to realize that in the eyes of the world, we weren't. We were invisible at that point.

It's mad, isn't it, really, when you think about it? Yeah, what was people's impressions of us? We weren't comedians. We weren't cool. We weren't even that visible, really, on television. So, yeah, so we were very well aware that whatever we were suggesting was completely unknown in anyone's sort of experience about, no, you guys don't do that. Do you? And we said, well, I don't know.

we'll just do the stuff that makes us laugh then. No expectation. Nothing. We're not going to try and fit an algorithm here. We're just going to do the stuff that we have been doing, actually for a long time that nobody's noticed. We'd all been doing comedy stuff and there were, you know, South Asian comedy nights going on, but it was like a subculture.

The rest of the world didn't know about it. Our community did. And so Anil gathered this team of me and Clavinda, who'd been on the Real McCoy as well, Sanjeeve and Nissen Soreni who were a duo A comedy duo And the night that Anil went to see them

Nina was supporting them Oh really? So that's so suddenly he went Yeah That was the crew And then took a long time To get from there to our first TV pilot We had to do a radio show first

Lots and lots and lots of hoops Proof lots of proving ourselves We are funny Where we got there It will work Yeah And it really did work Yeah

It did work I mean it was mega Yeah. But it was a shock, I think, to everybody that it didn't go on for longer. Yes. Was it a shock for you? Yes. Yeah. We couldn't really understand it.

We think we did three series. Yeah. We've actually done more specials that we did series. That's mad. I didn't know that. That's mad. How many specials have you done then? I think four.

Oh, yeah. Okay. Maybe in five. I mean, in India special as well. I mean, mad. Do you know what TV's like, Davina? I do. It doesn't necessarily.

necessarily follow any sort of rule. Sometimes it's a change of regime. Yeah. Sometimes it's a weird political decision. I mean, I don't know. I think the BBC clearly regretted it, otherwise it wouldn't have continually invited us back to do the specials. But I guess, you know, be grateful we did it because it changed the landscape.

Maybe be grateful we went out on an absolute high. I mean, you really did. We didn't stay and flog it over eight series that it just got worse and worse and worse. And people still watch it. People still quote it. It's out there on YouTube. New generations are finding it. So whatever the vagaries of that decision was, I'm really glad it happened.

I'm profoundly grateful to have been part of it because it's really humbling when people come up and go, that show, and then quote it back at you. It's just amazing. Isn't that great? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was a sit-up and pay attention program because it felt like so fresh and new and funny. Because we were ourselves and the authenticity of that.

And that was a real lesson for everything else I chose to go on and do. It was like, remember this. Remember, even when people don't think it's the thing they want, you know in your gut that this is the thing you want to do. This is your voice. That's really important. There is an estimated 31.1 billion sitting in lost pension pots in the UK. 31.1 billion.

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I'm trying to find somebody to come with me to come and colour her hair with some Garnier Nutris at work. Yeah, why not? Would you really? Yeah. Follow me, follow me. So this is the Begin Again studio. And this is Emma! Shoshana seemed really confident. She has coloured her friend's hair and stuff before. We've got to put this one into here and shape to activate.

shake to activate the colour. Shake it like a Polaroid picture. It's already the colour's lovely. The shade that we are doing on Emma is Mokka Brown which is my shade. Mine. I own this. I don't. There are actually 35 shades to choose from. It's got fruit oils in it. They are what nourishes it. Emma you're very lucky you have no grey hairs but Garnier Nutris the permanent colour's got 100% grey coverage. I can vouch for that. That is it. Oh wow.

Okay. Easier to do it yourself. Do you see what you mean? It's that easier than you thought? Very easy. Just like putting like hair oil in. Yeah. It's like so easy.

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That's amazing. Are you pleased with it? Do you like it? Love, love, love, love, love. How confident are you now? Out of 10. Oh, 10 out of 10. That was a lot simpler than I thought to.

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How far would you go when someone threatens everyone you love? Who can you trust? From Academy Award winner Ben Affleck, Animal stars Affleck, Carrie Washington, Jillian Anderson, and Stephen Young. When a Los Angeles mayoral candidate's son is kidnapped, he and his wife are pulled into a web of deception, forced to make choices that could tear their world apart.

Watch animals only on Netflix on October 9th, rated R. I mean, what's been amazing is you've done every single kind of different type of acting. You've done theatre. You've done TV. You've done film. Like, what's your favorite, would you say? Oh, well, I'm doing a play at the moment called The Children at the Lyric Hamas, which is an amazing, amazing play, three-hander. And it's two years since I did my last play.

And, I mean, there is something magical about theatre. The lyrics are great. The lyrics are great. The lyrics are such an intimate, like brilliant space, isn't it? Brilliant space. Amazing team. Amazing roles. All three roles.

It's three-hander, 90 minutes for people in the 60s. I mean, who writes plays like that, right? Proper, chunky roles. And it is that connection with the audience night after night. It's the fact that every show is different. It's the fact that it's a live connection. You can hear when they're listening. You can hear when they laugh.

You can hear when they're crying. You can hear when they're with you. You can feel when they're pulling away. I mean, God, how magic is that? It's so magical. And I think it's where you learn all the skills you need as an actor is actually in the theatre. So it teaches you everything you need to know about listening.

He must learn a lot about real life though as well, being in theatre, right? Yes, because of the feedback. And when we want to chat after. And I mean, listening actually is such a huge thing. I increasingly think that's the secret to being a good actor. You so focus up on my performance of my lines. The acting actually comes naturally when you're listening properly. I mean, you're aware that you're as a team telling a story together.

It's teamwork theatre as well. It's none of this. I'll come out for my trailer when I'm ready for my close-up, you know. Bug of that. It's like 7.30 you're on with everybody else. Go on with it. You know, tell the story. I know you've been married twice.

Yeah. And I would love to talk to you a little bit about navigating that because so many of our listeners, obviously I am newly married. Congratulations. Who I was just really best friends with for decades. And I know that you had that experience. But you also, you were married before and you had a daughter, Millie. But what state in your career did you meet your first husband? Like where were you at?

Oh my gosh. Were you very young? Very. I was 25. Right. So right at the beginning. I barely started. Yeah.

And to be honest, because he had a proper job, it was like me, I wouldn't have survived those early, difficult, hungry years without him and his support. So I owe him a lot, you know, and the fact that he really thought what I did was cool. I mean, I suspect, I think we were way too young, both of us, and that's probably in the end why we couldn't make it work. Did you meet him out of love? It wasn't an arranged marriage? No.

No. No, although weirdly, I had gone along to have a sort of arranged look at someone. I was in the West End. This is so typical of my dual existence, you know. In the West End, on the stage, Monday to Saturday, Sunday, off to the Hindu temple in Peckham to meet this boy that my uncle wanted me to meet. It's on the tube. So bizarre. What a bizarre schizophrenic life.

That is just very typical. I've always been juggling. But you know what is brilliant. So it's just came to my... You know, that's what makes you you. Yeah, that I didn't... These crazy things in your life, like a little bit of this, little bit of that, that's.

You can't put you anywhere. You are you. Uniquely because of your brilliant, unique life. Very true. And also because I don't believe in sort of writing things of if you haven't sort of given them a chance. Yeah. And so I knew plenty of people that had met through family who, you know, it's not really, I mean,

assisted marriage is what they call it now. It's like blind dating. Well, yes. You meet somebody. I mean, you know, it's a good way. It's what loads of communities do instead do. It's like, oh, your auntie so-and-so knows a nice boy. Go and have a coffee with him.

I mean, it was like that. I mean, it might be great. Exactly, right? Who knows? And the fact that your auntie knows the family means that they're all right. We've checked out, right? Nothing wrong with that. Better than a dating app.

Better. Oh, wait. Oh, my God. It's like ordering a pizza, isn't it? Extra topping. No. No, no. I mean, terrible.

Really terrible. I think people are swinging away from that, though, thank God. I think so, too. Yeah. So what I wanted to talk to you about was how you managed to get divorced but still stay friends. Yeah. Now, how did you do that? Because I think that would be very helpful for anybody watching that lots of people are going,

It's really doing that. It's not easy. It's a big begin again, that. It's a big begin again, and it's not easy, and you have to say, and have to know that in advance, unless you're one of the very lucky 1%. I think whenever you've got children, it's always going to be more complicated.

There's no doubt about that. But you sort of have to take a big swallow of pride. You really do. You have to stop the point scoring. You kind of have to let things go, even if they've really hurt you. By the way, I'm making a big deal. distinction now between, if you've been in a full-on abusive, very different set of rules, right?

There are some women that just can't go near their ex for love no money. Right, okay. Very, very important to say that. But for a majority of people, when it's a sad decline, I think that you stop with the point scoring, don't slag off your partner in front of your kids, whatever you think of them, and just take the bigger picture, which is we made this child or children. They didn't ask to be born. this is our responsibility now and we are the grown-ups

and however much it hurts to be nice to the ex or their partner and for me it wasn't difficult because it was very civilised but that's what you have to keep in mind how can we make this and remember the friendship

and the love we had before because that's what our child wants to see and that in the end is what is going to help them come through it as undamaged as possible I really want to say congratulations on doing that. It makes a difference.

It makes a huge difference. Yeah. And actually, it's remembering that. It's remembering the friendship and what brought you together is really important. And then I, you know, obviously you and Sanjeev

had worked together for a long time and you had done the kumas. We were doing the kumas. So can I just quickly say something that really made me laugh? I went back and looked at our episode. I was in an episode with Graham Norton. Yeah, it was fantastic.

So that would have been, I was pregnant with Holly, my first born. Right. Who is 25 next week. Oh my God. What? What? Yeah. So firstly, what I think is interesting, you've been on television forever, you know, like since like 30 years or something.

Yeah, yeah. And do you look at yourself and go, I don't even recognise. you, like you are you. But I guess because you're acting, it's slightly different. Oh, but you act as actors, you're confronted with your age and process. Oh, okay. All the time. Interesting.

Of course you are. Because there's clips of you when you were a baby and people bring them up and you go, oh, my God, look. I just was like, for me it was more a confidence thing. Yeah. Oh, I feel way more confident now. Just a different part. Like I looked at myself and I was like, oh, you're scared. You don't know how to just be.

Isn't that, I know. And I was like, oh, I wanted to kind of get in the telly and give myself a hug. I was like, who are you? Yeah. Do you feel like a different person, do you? Do you feel better? Oh, my God. Yeah.

Like 50 onwards. It's great, right? It's bloody marvellous. It really is. People who say you get to know yourself in your 30s, no. No. Not for me. I was getting divorced at around 40, so the 40s were time of exploration and discovery.

But honestly, I don't think it was until I got into my late 40s, early 50s that I went, I think I'm all right. I don't think I'm the piece of fucked up shit I thought I was for the... But isn't that mad? And thank God we get that moment. Yes, I know. And I wish it could happen earlier. And I suppose that is a message you want to give to younger women and go, if only you knew what was coming. If only you could reach this degree of acceptance now.

I know. But maybe it just does come with age and experience. I don't know. Maybe you can't fast track that. I feel a lot like that around being a parent. Yes, that too. I wish I could go back and do it all again now. You're just doing in a blind panic.

Yes. You're so tired, panicking. I know. Are you going to be okay? I know. I know. Why was I worrying? This is where the aunties are actually very useful.

Right? Yeah. I was also interested to see that you had a son quite late. Yes. And what a gift that must have been. Talk me through that experience of having a child in your 40s. Yeah. It's quite a shocker.

It's tiring, right? Yeah. Oh, my God. And working as much as. I really had to stop work for a couple of years. I couldn't hack it. And also, my darling son decided he didn't really want to sleep. No, okay.

It's one of those. Loved a bit, but yeah, I had a daughter that I couldn't wake up and then a son who wouldn't go to sleep. That's what just the universe does, isn't it? So, yeah, I just had to step back because honestly, it was a shocker to the system. I got 12 years between my kids and I'd forgotten everything. Like even basic things like, when do they eat and what?

When did the teeth come out? I mean, honestly. And then, of course, random child-rearing advice changes. I mean, I can't find that. Solid at three months. It's at six months. No, no, three. No, go back to six.

All of that. And that's when... That's where the anxiety comes in, I think, as a parent. Yes. And I was, I did, I made a mistake the second time. The first time round, I went on instinct. And it was a breeze, honestly, in so many ways. And aunties and mum.

So much amazing advice. And you go, who do you ask? The child rearing expert who's never had a baby or this bunch of women that have had 28 babies between them. between them. I know a few things. I think I might ask them. And the second time, I decided to follow this,

you know, the Gina Ford method. Oh. Works for some people. I abandoned it after about three weeks. It's just so restrictive, wasn't it? Wasn't it? Listen to your baby. It was like your baby will listen to you.

Your baby is a robot. Yeah? I mean. No, I know. I know. I know it works for some people. Great. Whatever works for you is whatever works for you.

It didn't work for me. You do you. Absolutely do you. The most important thing is, is it aligning with York? Yes. gut. And when I went back to anti-instinct and gut, it all got a lot easier. But yes, it's a bit of a shocker, having a late baby. The advantage is you're more solvent and you can pay for help, which I wasn't

able to do so much my first, but then I was so much younger. So there are wins and losers. The big one is, it's a baby. It's a baby. I really want to talk to you actually about being a well-known woman and how trick it is dating. Oh. When you're a well-known woman, it's like, who are you ever going to go out with? Because what I really know about you and Sanjeev

is that he and you are each other's champions. And there's no competition or jealousy about what you do or the success that you have because you're just both equally happy for each other. Yeah, for sure. What does that feel like? I honestly think increasingly the key to all that is your friendship again. Because we were friends long, long, before we ever thought about each other romantically.

And in a way, that's when you really get to know someone because they haven't got their game face on. Yeah, and they're not trying to impress you or anything. So you get the whole truth. You get the unfiltered. Do you still get that? Yeah. Oh, good. Me too.

It's so good. And that actually is the best basis. So important. It's so important. Because you always, you know, when I was younger, I'd think, why can't I find a fella that I can relax with like I do with my girlfriends? Oh no, that never happens. Of course that doesn't happen because that's a different kind of thing. It shouldn't be.

No. The ease that you feel with your girlfriends, that the ability to be you should be exactly what you feel with a partner. It should feel like coming home. This is where you kick off your slippers and go, I don't have to pretend, you know, all my bad bits. Because you've been together a long time now. How long have you been together? Oh my gosh. Is it 21 years?

I mean, that's a long time. Yeah. And how is it? It's all right. We're still there. But it's that's amazing, right? Yeah. I mean, it's just, I don't know it's sort of a quiet.

You still love each other. Yeah. But in a very sort of quiet, undramatic way. It's like furniture. Part of the furniture, like. in a good way in a very good way but like

ease that's what it is I think it is that I think coming home is the best way to describe it that's how it feels

sort of walk in the house and the shoulders go like that all the stress is fall away and you go oh good you're the person

I just want to talk to about my day every day and I will bore you silly with it and you're going to have to sit there and that make me a too

and I bet He does, and I bet he does the same for you, and you do the same for him, you know, it's like. Totally. It is you and the other person against the world. It's got to be. Well, and if it isn't, you need to rethink or have a big talk about that. Yeah. I think the big thing as well, and I know you've gone through it and I'm going through it, is the empty nest.

And I've always been a great believer of, I want to give my children wings so they fly away and never look back. but then when that comes to happening you're like but look back once or twice please I know and they're actually all brilliant and they're going

but then you are left with that person that you are going to spend the rest of your life with and it's just the two of you so you've got to work on that before they go and keep it good because you know

but it can be an amazing reinvention for couples exactly because you suddenly go now I'm not thinking about GCSEs and football lessons, whatever. Now, I mean, children take up so much of your time. Here we are, across the breakfast. What do you want?

Hello again. Hi. It can be actually one. Can't say shag. Yeah, exactly. Well, it can be wonderful. Not with my bat, love. What time is it?

Oh, no. It's what I've got to see. I can't see. I also think that like Michael said to me last year he said what do you want you know what what do you want because he's got like so many wants he wants to go and learn about this

and he wants to do this and he wants to go and help mental health and he was like God you've got so many things he said what do you want and I was like and you had to really think about that I don't know A good to ask a question, right?

Brilliant Jenny. What do you want? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What do I want now? Do you know, I'm living the wants in a lot of ways. Oh, Mira, that's so good. I mean, if you'd have told, you know, the 10-year-old chubby brown girl from Wolverhampton that at my age, I'd be making a living out of the thing I never thought I'd get anywhere close to achieving.

The thing I loved more than anything would not have believed you. And here I am. So to be doing that, which was such a pipe dream, is what more could I have asked for? That is just wondrous to me that I'm still able to do that. That, you know, thank you. I have a wonderful partner, wonderful friends, wonderful children. I have enough to eat, have a roof over my head. I mean, tick, tick, there's so many things that couldn't be there.

there are still so many things that might happen and go wrong, but right now, I'm so grateful. I think it's also historically quite a tricky time for women. I mean, when they go through kind of midlife, like maybe late 40s onwards, where you've got teenage kids and parents who are unwell and caring and everything. and I know that, you know, you looking after your dad, especially when he had dementia and Alzheimer's, that was like a, that was exhausting. And I had the same thing with my dad,

but my stepmom was around, but she cared for him a lot and through COVID and everything. That was really dreadful. How was it for you when your parents went? Because I know you were very close. What was that like that experience? That thing was probably the hardest phase of my life, and it lasted a good 12 years.

Yeah, God. And you start saying goodbye from the minute they get diagnosed, right? Yeah. It's a slow, long goodbye. Both my parents got ill at the same time, unfortunately. So my mum had cancer and my dad was diagnosed without time. It was within weeks. Oh, my God, that is so.

And they were living in the Midlands, and we both suddenly had to move them both down. So it was very emergency, it was like an emergency situation. We had to react very quickly. When you're working, you've got kids. Yeah, and then I had a young child and a teenager. daughter and this. Honestly, it was a very grueling period and we all had to pull together. And yeah.

And, you know, I write in the book, you know, this whole chapter about my dad's Alzheimer's and how it affected us of family and how we cope with it. And I do say in there, I know how many people are going through this, how you are the filling in this horrible sandwich. And you never think it's going to end. And I just sort of want to do that to everyone because it's like it's the hardest phase of life. And it happens to a lot of us. And we really did have to reach up for a lot of support. The Alzheimer's Society were amazing, I have to say. You're an ambassador for them, aren't you?

That's why I became an ambassador because they really held us up. Because you're in this foreign land. You're like, yesterday, my life was different. My life has turned overnight. I'm in a new land with new vocabulary, a disease I know nothing about. I've got to think about care. What's my financial position? What's my legal position? What? What? What? I've got a million questions. And not enough hours in the day. Not enough hours in the day to cope with it. So it profoundly affected us on every level.

Mom moved in with us. Dad had to go into care because he didn't, he had Capgras syndrome, so he didn't recognize Mom and they couldn't live in the same house. My brother and I shared care with my mom and my dad. So whole absolute shift of life we had to move house. Everything. Everything changed. Everything.

I'm talking about gratitude, I think that's one of the reasons why now it's like... We got through it. You did it. We got through it. But also the journey, I think it's very hard when you're in the middle of this journey to think of anything positive because all you can think about is this is the cruelest disease and why and awful and how. But when my, when your loved one enters the phase where they really are, in their own world. Yes.

In a way, you think maybe you're happier there than you were in this one. And my job is to go into that world with you. And be happy in that. And if you want to think that I am mum 50 years ago, I am mum 50 years ago. And I will be that for this hour I'm with you today. Of course I'll be that. And I'm not going to go, no, dad, you don't, no, just the wrong thing to do. and somewhere you think spiritually your soul

is just going on another little journey here and I can't come with you this time but my God I will do everything in my power to make sure wherever you're going next is good so yeah you know that one and I'm sorry your dad suffered too yeah I mean but you're right I think about people going somewhere

and they're happy, it's just you're still there watching and how painful that is. You mentioned your dad earlier and what he'd been through and you taking him back to his home that he had before he was forced to leave. Could you just talk to me about because I knew that India had been colonised, but actually I knew a woeful amount about what happened during that time and how hard it was, and how many people died actually. So could you just talk to me about what life was like? like for your parents in India at that time?

Okay. So India, obviously the British sort of started off as traders and then became colonizers. And that was a slow process over 250 years. And they were the first multinational, really. You can think of them like that. And my father grew up. India was one big undivided country. My father grew up in Lahore, which was known as the Paris of the East,

one of the most beautiful, vibrant artistic cities, and he loved it. And in 1947, when the British finally left, having used all of India's resources to fund the Industrial Revolution, so all the colonised wealth made Britain, what it was, a world power, all of that wealth went there. And in 1947, India was divided into three. So, and if you lived in a majority Muslim area, that became Pakistan, East Pakistan and West Pakistan.

If you think of the shape of India like an elephant, two big ears like that, then basically the ears were cut off either side. And the border was drawn up by a lawyer in London who'd never been to India. I mean, that's mad, isn't it, when you think about that? It's mad. But people's whole lives. On the stroke of a pen. Yeah.

With very little notice. And without kind of any understanding. Yeah. And the, you know, real people, your parents sort of in the Cogmire. Absolutely. And it was 1947. Yeah. And then your parents left a bit later.

Yeah, in 1959. And the reason that he came to Britain is that there was no prospects for him in India. The economy was destroyed. GDP in India was in the, you know, 40%, 40%. It was a massively wealthy country before it's colonised and it was one or two percent when British left. So when people go, why, go back to where you come from, why are you here? You go, if you knew a bit more about history, you'd know we are here because you were there. I don't think my mom and dad, who chooses to leave their homeland, their family, their roots?

Who wants to do that unless you have to, right? because you have no prospects. I think you leave half your heart there. Of course you do. But that's in the end why they came here. And I used to ask them quite often, do you ever regret it? And not once did they say we regret it? Never.

They honestly felt that Britain gave them the choices and more importantly their children, the choices and the prospects they would have never have had. And I'm really grateful I grew up because I got the British sense of humour. I got this amazing legacy and the arts and the creativity of this incredible artistic heritage here. So that was amazing for me to grow up with that.

Before we end, and I will try and finish on a happier note at the end of this bit, I really want to talk to you about your sexual assault. Sorry, was that the happy note we're ending? Yeah, I'm going to end on a happy note at the end of this. Okay, just so people know. Talk about your book after this, but I just quickly wanted to say,

because that really spoke to me. Because you correctly said, like, 90% of your friends from our era, 60s, 70s, have suffered a or numerous sexual assaults of some sort. It was a gropey era. Yeah. And more than that as well. And normalised. And normalised, completely normalised.

That you have a spoken nurse about it. And when you speak to other people, it's like, oh, yeah, that happened to me. I've never spoken about it. This is what shocked me. Right. When I sat in a room, I really thought hard about including it because I knew, obviously, once it's out there, it's out there and people will ask about it. And the last thing you want to do is to be prurient or sensationalist. Yeah, it'll become like a spokesperson.

Right. It's actually two pages in the whole book. That's all it is. But of course, people have asked me about it. But do you know why? Because I think it does help women. Yeah. It was like when Giselle Pelico

When, no, I am talking about it. Exactly that. It was like, oh, thank you. Yeah. Because we don't. Yeah, we don't. And what convinced me is when I tested this out with a bunch of girlfriends

and I said, look, this happened. I don't know whether to put it in the book. And then one by one, the hands went up around the room and I went, you're kidding me. And a lot of them had never, never said anything. That's how normalised it was. And also because it happened at the time in my life

It would have been really easy to give up You know, I wasn't working I was very young I'd only been in the business About a year, year and a half Money had run out Luck had run out I was homeless

Sleeping on floors And it would have been really easy to go And I knew it did go I can't do this If this is what it's going to be like Can't do this And then it led me To find a writer's group

And a bunch of aunties and a bunch of incredible women that absolutely changed the course of my life I became politicised I became angry I wanted to write useful I thought this writer's group

maybe wanted to create characters that were braver than me and roared and then through that group I met someone that said you're homeless I'm in a housing association flat I'll help you fill in the fore

I found a place to live I found a whole bunch of friends actually it was a big turning plan to my life. And if I had given up and blamed myself and shrunk and taken on the shame like we all do, that wouldn't have happened. And I thought for that reason, it's quite important to go, this does not have to define you. Your greatest revenge is to be happy. Yes. I mean, I think what I love about you and this book is that everyone, but especially, especially, women will get a lot from this book.

I hope so. Yeah. There is a lot of your gratitude, a lot of your hope, love your light as such a beautiful woman. Mira, I love you. No, honestly, you are an absolute gem and a real torchbearer, I think, for women. And I'm very grateful to you for that.

Thank you. And so do you. Well, everybody. Vigilante is a brilliant book. You must go and get it. I love, don't sit with your legs apart. You can only get fat after you're married.

These are all the things you said earlier. An Asian comedy sketch show. Or Asian's funny. God, it is mad, isn't it? It's mad. The other thing I keep thinking, this is the one happy night to end on, is that you and Sanji've got together,

but you played his grandma. That's quite mad, isn't it? I've talked to my therapist about that. I bet you have. I love that. Hang on a minute. I know. At least he knows what I'm going to look like.

It's 20 years time. There are absolutely no surprises there. I told you, I warned you. You saw this coming. Don't complain. Thank you so much. I'm so grateful. So welcome.

Thank you for having me. Thanks for being so open and wise. So just in case you missed this episode here, if you love this episode, I know you're going to going to love that.