Begin Again with Davina McCall - David Gandy Becoming The World's Highest Paid Male Model & The Truth About The Manosphere!

Episode Date: April 23, 2026

Are We Failing Young Men? In this episode of Begin Again, David Gandy opens up about masculinity, mentorship, and the reality behind becoming the world’s highest-paid male model. From feeling like he didn’t fit the mould to building one of the most iconic careers in fashion, David reflects on insecurity, identity, and what young men really need in a world that often sends them the wrong message. But this conversation goes far beyond modelling. David speaks candidly about shyness, insecurity, self-criticism, and the strange contradiction of becoming one of the most photographed men in the world while still hating having his picture taken. He shares how those early feelings shaped him, how he learned to channel them, and why confidence is often far more complicated than it looks from the outside. The episode also explores masculinity, mentorship, and why so many young men are struggling to find their place. David reflects on the role models that shaped him, the importance of guidance, and why he believes we need a more positive conversation around masculinity, respect, and responsibility. Rather than blaming or dividing, he argues for better examples, stronger values, and more honest conversations about what young men actually need. At its core, this is a conversation about identity, resilience, and what it means to stay in control of your life and career in a world that is always trying to define you. 🌟 Follow for more honest conversations about identity, growth, and beginning again. Follow us here: 📸 www.instagram.com/beginagain 🎥 https://www.tiktok.com/@beginagainpod Follow David: https://www.instagram.com/davidgandy_official/ ✨Sign up for the Begin Again newsletter for all your behind the scenes access, recommendations and much much more at: https://linkly.link/2g2xm (00:00) Intro (01:09) The Modelling Industry in the Early 2000s (02:55) A Message From David’s Agent and Mentor (09:38) David on Defying Expectations and Landing Dolce & Gabbana (13:51) David’s New Partnerships With M&S and Jaeger Menswear (18:40) David on His Parents and Upbringing (23:06) Balancing Relationships and Career (26:37) Saily Ad (27:33) Shopify Ad (28:34) Overcoming Shyness and Insecurities (34:38) How Modelling Shaped David Long-Term (37:01) Changing Body Standards in Modelling (39:04) David on His Daughters and Modern Parenting (42:27) David on His Relationship With His Dad (44:51) Supporting Young Men and Addressing Male Suicide (48:15) Toxic Masculinity and the Demonisation of Young Men (50:43) What’s Happening With the Manosphere? (53:08) The Need for Positive Role Models for Young Men Sponsored by: Saily - Download from the app store and use code DAVINA at the checkout for 15% off Shopify - https://www.shopify.com/uk for £1 a month trial Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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because I've seen so much of it. Like Times Square. 50 foot. It was enormous. I mean the poster, everybody, no laughing there, please. Yeah. Everyone used to say to me, if you're so am, So Ralph Laurent, and someone had told me, no, you're Dolkjian Gavana.

And that changed where I was in the industry. And so when Dolchig wanted this bigger, more muscular guy, that the actual pond to fish from at that point wasn't big because everyone had followed the train and gone skinnier. And I had gone the other way. I tell the story once. I shot the campaign with Scarlett, Your Hanson. I'll get a call from my agent.

And she went, yeah, the dropper to you're out. Do you know what I like in modeling? You're alone a lot of the time. I'd like to talk to you about love life. There was not anyone in the industry that I could almost trust and now with Manosver, the names of Andrew Tate. They are talking to young men. And young men are listening. And what you do is you need a lot of good people, mentors, positive people to rein that in.

But I think you need to be present for your children. And I've made that a purpose in my life. Because it's a very easy thing to say, I love you. It's harder to show it. So I am so happy to talk to you today. I'm happy to do you. It's quite weird how our paths have. been so similar for a while.

So I was at Models 1 as a booker on the men's desk from 86 to 92. The Golden Years, I think. It was just such a fun time in fashion. But when did you start modelling? So I started 20, nearly 25 years ago since that would have been 2001, 2002. Yeah, 2002, really.

What I kind of enjoyed about the fashion stream about that, there was a mystery kind of behind it. And I think that's been lost a little bit. Yeah. Well, that's the internet for you, isn't it? Well, I say now we need to campaign, and everyone already knows what it's going to look like before it's even out because we've had to do so much social and everything.

And, yeah, like combine it all. And then it's all out before the campaign. And, you know, the days before when that was the biggest release. and then you had to build up to that day in the big reveal. It doesn't really exist anymore because it's also dropped in sort of, you know, drops throughout months until that big reveal. Yeah, which I'm a little bit certain about it. I do have to say I love what I did love those days.

I mean, can I also just say like well done? I mean, 26 years. That is, no, that is incredible. I mean, it's long, yeah. Now you look back at it when you say 26 years, is a long time. Yeah. It's amazing.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I was just wondering, would it be all right if you just subscribed? Thanks. There's a couple of things I want to kick off with. Firstly, this normally, I think, is the height of rudeness. And I bet you were looking at it. And I saw you give your phone to someone.

And I thought, I wonder if he's checked my phone and gone, it's a bit rude. It's a bit rude. No, I didn't. I didn't. But I've got it here for a reason. Right. And that reason. is because I may have called somebody and said,

I'm interviewing somebody today. Do you want to say anything? Now, we both know this person. Right. And I haven't listened to this message because you were just walking into the room when I received it. So I'm really sorry if there's any Fee and Jeffing in here.

I don't know. I'm intrigued now. Yeah, so am I. But here we go. Are you ready? Come on. Hey, Davey, Ganty. How's it going? What can I say about Dave Gandhi that I love him?

Oh, God. He's loyal. He's professional. But above all, he's just such a nice guy. I mean, what you see is what you get. And he is nice, nice guy. Not like some of them toe rugs out there. No, I'm joking.

But at the end of the stage, all what counts is that he has been so... loyal to select over the years and he has been so nice to my staff all the clients that he works well everything he does he tries his hardest at doing it and i love him even if he wasn't at select i still love him big kiss oh that's my dadie oh bless tandy hendon you know that just for anybody that doesn't know that's your agent she's been at select forever when i was working there in the 80s, her and her sister started select. And I can't believe, you know, they are still going strong, still at the top of the Model Agency League.

I'm now hiding this out of, no, let me turn off the sound fast. Because otherwise my son's going to call him. I talk about Tandy. We can have to talk about a bit more later about mentors and the importance of males and young men having mentors. There wasn't anyone in the industry that I, I could almost trust and have a mentor. She was mine.

So how come Tandy was a mentor? There was nowhere really in the industry, where I wanted to be. And this was, and you would understand what others about almost the divide between where the girls could get to what they were being paid and where the guys were. And I used to have them and said, well, but why? Why can't we have the exclusive contracts? Why? you know why the girl so out of the industry known and we're not all supermoders? I always joke that you don't even need to say surnames.

You can say Kate and Cindy and Christy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They don't need to know who they are. That's phenomenal. So I went to Tandy at one point and just said, and she said, you're doing well, kid. Always called me kid. Or was it, you're doing well, kid? And I was not really what I want to do, Tand.

And I was always pushing, and I think she kind of loved it, pushing to do more. She said, what do you want to do? And I said, I gave him an example. So you remember like the Levi's commercials? The guys in the Levi's commercials. Yeah, Nick. Yeah, Nick. And Paul did it.

Yeah. I was just like that, that iconic commercial. And she said to me, she went, okay, if you're serious about this, she went, I probably think you're slightly mad because you're owning well, but you're doing. I was doing catalog and commercial work. Yeah. Nothing I really wanted to do. But they were big money payers.

The catalog and commercial were the kind of thing that lots of other guys that were doing all the editorial, because people probably. we don't know, but all the editorial for the fashion magazines, like the really good ones, Vogue were the ones that paid the least because it was the QDOS. I think it paid anything. Nothing, like 50 quid or something, like expensive. Like a nominal fee could be like a pound and you'd be on the cover. Yes.

Absolutely mad. But then often the guys that we had that were doing those kind of jobs would literally cut off their right arm for some commercial and some catalogue, but you were doing sort of too much of it. It wasn't doing too much of it. It was for the side of me, I just wanted to be, I suppose if I was in this industry and I could see the potential of where someone could be. Yes.

Someone who branded right, someone who created a brand. And, yeah, could see it. And Tandy could see it as well. Yes. And this is the interesting thing, is like everyone used to say to me, you're so Amarni, you have to go for the Amarly, or you're so Ralph Lauren or something like that. Okay, yeah, that makes sense.

We'd love to do anything. And Tandy went, no, you're Doctrine, Yibana. and she said it for just putting it out there into the in my minding her mining into the you know your duchin gabana you're getting dolce you're dulcher d'olchia is the one you're duching gabana but you know what we'd call that now well manifesting manifesting right you put it out into the universe and you make it happen I know what happened yeah so she was the one that believed me but we had to she said yeah I've got to give up it like give up everything we can't have you as a commercial model anymore if this is where you want to do

do it. And you've got to give up all that commercial work and you've got to be seen as complete different. So we've got to shoot an editorial, we've got to get you on a cover, we've got to do this. And I actually know Lawrence Thomas, her husband now, he shot me. So when people talk about the shots that changed where I was in the industry, it was actually, and it is Dolce, but if people talk about the first set of shots that really changed everything, it was those shots of Lawrence, like Tandy's husband. And then progressing to that, we then, um, and got the Dalton Cabana campaign, which led to the light blue campaign. Which was that iconic campaign where it was the white trunks.

I was making a joke before you arrived. I was like, I know David's body better than his wife because I've seen so much of it. You apologize by that too. But like Times Square, you know, what, 50 foot? Like it was enormous. It was enormous. Yeah, it was... I mean, how fantastic.

I mean, the poster, everybody. No, laughing there, please. A lot of crotch. I wasn't talking about that, though, David. I was meaning the scale of the advert. Thank you. But that... You know, what I really like about what I've just heard

is that you are somebody who didn't... I think the natural thing would be to just go with the flow with modelling. Like, you'd think, oh, well, I'm just quite lucky to be here. I'm just... But you wanted to take control. of your career. I wanted, I always said, you know, I didn't want the industry or anyone in control of me, including brands, I wanted to be in control of it.

I think you have to be. How would that manifest itself? Like, if you weren't happy on a shoot, what would happen? I don't think you do anything drastic on a shoot if you weren't happy. Do I mean, there's a difference. I mean, I don't get me wrong, it's not like I haven't politely walked off a shoot if things that were agreed were not agreed. and vice versa.

You know, I tell the story once of I shot a campaign with Scarlett or Hansen for Dolce and Caban. It was a makeup. I was very much just like in the background, or with Scarlet. And then we shot then. I flown out to LA and we were shooting an alcoholic band.

And Scarlet was there as well. So of course in the morning, she went, Dave, I didn't know you're on the shoot. It's so fun. Have you seen the shots? And we were talking about Dolce. and everything went a bit quiet and they went

and you just, you go downstairs for a while and I was left there for an hour no one talking to you. Oh no. No one's saying anything. So I, you know,

in the fashion industry when that happens, no one's got the balls to speak to you. So you're kind of left. And I was kind of waiting. I was like, okay,

I'll get a call from Heidi at the moment with my agent. And then she called me and she went, yeah, they dropped her out. What of the shit

that you were on? We were on. I said, just out of interest. And she went, they don't like it that you and Scarlet have shop before for Doctrine and Gabon on the mate,

but you can't do this together. Nothing, not same products, not same companies, not same anything. And this is where I kind of, young guys, if I'm mentoring, are they asked me? And I said, you could take that situation and be not devastated, but really angry, you could have a go, everyone.

And I went, Heidi, right, what's the legal term? She went, paid fully, you're there. They didn't, they should have, I said, fine, I went, if you need me. I will be in Carmel, rented a car, went to Carmel. Now I had a two-day holiday, which I never took out in Carmel, rented a car, got paid fully, came home. And I thought, great. And then I went to work for.

I thought this is not diluting me to work for another alcohol brand. Find me another alcohol brand. Went to go and do Johnny Walker, Blue Label. I looked at all as a positive. So you can't look at that as a negative. So poor me, I got. Yes. I looked at all as great.

Okay. Someone's paying me not to work and I can go off and then progress with another brand. So that was all win-win. But that was the attitude. That's probably the attitude that Tandy instilled in me as well. And, yeah, there was no feeling sorry for yourself or you're not getting anything. She was like, go and make something happen. Get out to New York.

That was always her thing. Like Tandy, not really work. Get out to New York. Go and do some appointments. And that's what we would do. She also had a person in me, I think, to it, that would push her and push her, you know, my agents as much as they would push me as well. I certainly don't remember having any models like... I wasn't someone sitting there on their PlayStation or sitting at home not going out every evening and then coming back and going and waiting for a phone call.

I'd like telling you, what can we do to help this, to improve it? And that's why I did. I didn't, I tell people now, I didn't take holidays for... Until I sort of met Steph and really, you know, from like 10 years ago. And she was like, where do you holiday? I went, I don't. I take a few extra days here and there for like if I'm on a trip. Well, that's going to change.

Yes, and it did, and that was a nice idea. But, you know, my whole life was work and building what we, you know, finally the platform that we had with light blue, I thought finally, after six years, we got a platform to build. I said didn't sit on my laurels of, of, with Dolce and just think, okay, that's great. Because to me, that contract could have been a year, could be three years, could have been two years, you know, where it is. It's three-year contract, but two years rolling and they'll tell you if they want to use you again. If someone had told me it was going to be 18 years, I might have relaxed a bit. But at the same time, we're going to look at one. Yeah, but it's only 18 years because you didn't.

Because it didn't. And that was right, well, okay, Dolcey and Martin used me. So we keep on pushing with other brands. I'm loyal to them. So yeah. And quickly just want to talk to you about your new work with Marks and Spencers, with Yeager. Because I showed you a picture of my dad earlier, who's on the top shelf. And when I heard that you were doing this partnership with Yeager,

I wanted to bring you a picture of my dad from the mid-60s before I was born when he was modelling for Yeager. You're kidding. That's amazing. How great is that? And I still love the outfit. It's so good, right? It looks good now.

Hang on a minute. of your neck jump and a roll neck before. But rocking that one out tomorrow. I'm going to call my mum and go, guess what? Got the Yeager launch tomorrow. This is amazing. Isn't it lovely? I'm going to Yeager now, see.

Oh, look. See? That's, yeah. And it really... When was this 60? It must have been early 60s. I was born in 67 and it was before that. Yeah.

Fab. See, and that's why I actually love when Eminess approached me about Yeager. Is that history to the brand. Yeah. That longevity to it. British, the Britishness to it in MNS. Quality. And equality.

I mean, it's always seen as... Which was kind of the problem we had when we were working with M&S because my brand so David Gandy, Orchcraft was always sort of the higher end, the luxury brand, that's where we wanted to keep it. And when I first went to MNS, I remember I was doing Klexioni, which was a lovely Italian subbrand of MNES. And it was beautiful blazers from Puglia. and still I've still got them.

That's what the quality was. And I think then M&S were trying to, you then had lots of people going on like, you know, Cos and Primark and all these different companies. And the quality was going down. So where I was wearing this, by the guy I got to the end and I was an ambassador of tailoring and then they tried to sort of give me a 90-quid suit,

probably as a suit. And I was like, guys, this is not where we, Eminus were a very different place. So over those five years, I haven't been at M&S, looking at what, was happening and Stuart Mansion coming in and Mitch for their menswear and they showed me Yeager and Stuart, what do you think? I was like it's good. It's really, really good. I like this.

Yeah. So that's where and of course then part of that deal was I said, look, we had this very successful David Gandhi autograph brand. I've got David Gandhi Worldwear. It's what we were doing before. It's better. Stuart said, right, well, you come in for Yeager. Will you come full circle and bring worldware into M&S and we launched last, last Thursday, and it's gone, thank you. Gangbusters. Very, very well so far. I have to thank the MNS customer for, because you never know.

Well, to me, an M&S customer. Like, M&S is part of our DNA. This is not an advert, by the way. I'm not being paid by MNS, I just want to let you know, but I am just going to quickly mention that they are part of this nation's DNA. Like it can't ever shut down, like Eminus has got to last forever. And, but what's interesting is you going away and then coming out, I didn't, it's not that I didn't miss you, but I'm not a man, so I don't naturally go to men's clothing. But I didn't realize you'd gone.

So you coming back just feels right. Yeah, we didn't make it. That was part of it. It was something, when I were leaving a brand or saying, you're making statements or bitter about leaving brands or anything. You don't do that. No. You know, people are the same with Dolce, 18 years. You must be sad about leaving the brand.

I said, sad, I've had 18 years of Dolce and Gabana. Yeah. I thought maybe three. All I can ever say is thank you to that brand. And MNS was the same. But I always knew in my head that there was something sort of unfinished left with M&S. And the first day I went back. Did you? You knew?

I did. And I, from the first day, from the first day it was starting, the brand, I said one day this has got to be backing. This has got to be back in M&S. Yeah. And, but again, I don't often like to go. when I feel was backwards. Yeah.

Always walking forwards. So yeah. So there was a reservation of when I was outside the offices in Pallington. I must remember I stalled for a second and went, well, we, am I, am I doing here? And I walked in and I have to say the first lady that I knew from where she came in and showed, welcome back Mr. Gandhi. And literally I said, I said to her, you don't know how I needed that to hear that. And I went up and I saw, you know, so many people I knew and. Well, it's coming home.

Yeah, you kind of, what you felt, and I was like, okay, it is home. Which is lovely, which is, which is, which is good. And it's proved so far so good. You know, I'm getting a kind of taste of you and your work ethic and your style and how important that is to you. And how, and this isn't a criticism. It's a compliment that you are uncompromising. And, you know, not to a fault, but to your boundary to, you know, this is what I want to do. This is what I want to do.

that's quite a strong position to have. Where does that come from? Tell me a bit about your parents because I know that your dad. What stubbornness? What was it? Is my dad? Is it?

Tell me about your parents. What was it like growing up? It was a very normal upbringing to them. Normal when I was brought up in Billyrick in Essex. Went to Billy Rookie Comprehensive. And yeah, we, normal things that every normal family do. And my dad who came back, he grew up in a very impoverished background, built businesses.

My mum built businesses with him. So that's, I think, from a perspective of a child, subconsciously, you're seeing how hard it is. My mum and dad didn't go to work at 8 o'clock and come back at, you know, sort of 5 o'clock in the hour, 6 o'clock in the afternoon. is they were working until 11, 12. My dad was dealing with America a lot. So we all sat down at dinners by I said, but for probably 10 years, dad was sat down at a dinner.

We'd have to get up twice to answer the phone. Back in the days before mobiles and everything else. And building businesses. And mum was the same. But it was still around home. So first of all, they were at home and then they built their offices. I love the story about you answering the phone

sometimes for your dad. Oh, it has to. They went out. I didn't have to tell my dad. Any messages? And I'd be like, yeah, took a person I said, Dad. And then I took over because he needed someone. He was all to do with property and travel and America.

So lots of property and brochures. Again, this was all before websites and everything else. So you used to print the brochure out of the villa and used to post it off. And then after a while, because I was doing graphics and IT at school, I would do all the layouts for him. And then I would do all the printouts for him. He would pay me to do all the printouts and logos and brochures and work. I call the IT out for him.

And so I was kind of part of it. But yeah, so I saw that work ethic. And it's my dad obviously was kind of an unprotioning entrepreneur, never had a boss. My cousin doesn't. My sister and her husband don't. I don't. That interesting.

Yeah. So we're all. You just grew up in that environment. Yeah. The idea of actually going to work in an office was just not. No, no. It's not going to happen. And you control everything yourself,

which probably might sound more romantic than actually is, but the pressures of doing it. So starting your own, I mean, even when I did World War, I was very reluctant because there's a difference of starting a brand with Eminess and having the M&S power behind you. Yes. But doing it by yourself and having investments and also starting. And it has been the toughest thing.

It really, really has. So my dad used to work over in Kent when we grew up in Essex. So my mum... Whereabouts? He was swanly I remember just over I'm a Tamerjwell's girl He always used to make the joke of

He watched about There were many years He worked to the company He'd be like in the cues For the Dartford tunnel Which were terrible Yeah And he watched the dart for bridge being made

And on the day he literally drove over it He quit the job and started his own company So he Yeah I mean So they used to, Dad used to drive from Swannily Mum used to drive us With the dog

In the up to London They used to live in barking So we did that every Friday. And I always used a joke on the way home. My sister went, my dad and I went to my mum, and they had, of slightly race home. And my mum would have her mixed tapes of soul and yacht rock in the night. That's why I still, that's my...

Yot Rock? What's that? Hall of notes. Stop it. You know what Yacht Rock is? No. It's my favourite. Playlist immediately.

Michael McDonald. Yeah. Love Yot Rock. Yeah. Yot Rock Radio. Who knew? What, there's not a rock, yock, lot. I think there is now.

If you're on, like, one of the digital internet ones, yeah, there is. It's just fab. I want that. Absolutely fab. That's my, those are my favourite people's. Doobie brothers? Of course. I mean, my name is Steph, my wife just looks at me like I'm, I'm saying, what is this?

Is she younger than you? Yeah, six years younger. Oh, my husband's six years younger than me. Yeah. We won, right? It's amazing. I'd like to talk to you about meeting Steph and what she's done for you because what was your, I don't need to go into love life or anything. But, you know, did you have lots of different girlfriends?

Did you have a couple of big, serious girlfriends? Or was Steph like the one almost immediately? I mean, I won't go into it. I very much say that my world was work and the brand and what I wanted to build. It was quite, I wasn't horrible. I wasn't selfish. I think of the relationships I'm always quite giving. But with that is I would probably adapt my life around that person.

You couldn't actually do that. It had to be solidly. This is what I'm doing. This is what I'm going. I'm on 90 flights a year. I'm not around. 90 flights a year. We don't go on holiday.

You know, it was, that was at the Christmases I was so exhausted that, you know, even with my own family, my parents would go to Spain and see my sister. And I'm like, I can't travel anymore. I would just, I would be on a house my own. A couple of Christmases. A Christmas. But it wasn't, you know, it was actually quite lovely. Like, I had the dog, we'll go for walks. And there was no one around, you know, it's like modeling it.

When you're in an industry as well is, yes, you're alone a lot of the time, but you're virtually going. to a different job with different people and entertaining every one of those 90 flights is some different. And you're exhausted by the end of it. And also I would imagine on a flight, everybody wants to talk to you because by that point you're famous, right?

Yeah, I mean, sometimes, yes, but it was... What are you smiling about, David? No, I was just thinking... No, it was always the... Because I was flying so much, I got to know so many of the... Because I'd been on the same flights as cabin crew. And they were like, are you on again?

You're flying more than us. And they were to like get to know me and they'd even know what I'd blow the label. Like Shabbly, I was like, thank so much. Or we're out of Shabbly. Stop drinking Shabbly. I'm sorry. Funny.

Yeah, I always love from, I was laughing there about people recognizing because I was once behind Brad Pitt and it was making me laugh because Brad Pitt was watching his own film and I was watching the film together but Brad Pitt was in front of me on a flight. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,

Brad Pitt was watching a Brad Pitt movie. He was watching a Brad Pitt movie. maybe never seen it, which may be kind of laugh. I didn't speak to him. Can I just say something, though? I quite love him for that. I know, absolutely. Did you talk about?

No, I would have. I love that, I mean, I would have liked to play the bad pit on the flight. Brad? Yeah. Shabbly. You film shoo-bush. God, you two together? I wouldn't say, oh.

That would be what a reckoning that would be, get off the plane, like David Gandy and Brad Pitt together. Oh! But I was thinking. though it was the difference it was like I was I had gold card and I was travelling so much I had gold cards

on verging and BA and everything like it was just mad what was that film not with George Clooney yes yes that was basically in my life literally you were kind of

able to totally hustle every airport and you would look and you'd go Avis preferred not getting on that queue but that's the one there it was perfect

I love travelling die I mean I absolutely adore it and that still seems the normal to me I mean after we've had children. It did change and it perfectly changed so I could be around. But if I'm on a flight again and I'm back in, that's where I feel like myself again. I'm like, okay, back to back to the normal. Do you know what an ESIM is? Be honest. It does the same job as a physical SIM,

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And for a cheeky 15% off your first purchase, you can use the code Devina at checkout. That's Devina for 15% off. You know when you've got that little idea in the back of your mind, something that you think, you know what, I might do that one day. And then life gets kind of busy and it just sort of stays there. Well, I was thinking about how sometimes overwhelming it can feel when you actually try to start something. Design, writing, photography, payments, text. all of it, it's a lot. Well, Shopify, whose sponsors begin again, sort of takes that chaos

and it makes it feel achievable, because it gives you a place to build your shop without needing to be an expert. It's got templates, it's got tools that help you write product descriptions and nudge you along a bit when you get stuck. It means that you can just start. If you've been sitting on an idea, or you could just maybe have a look, try it out. Go to Shopify.com.uk. If you want to, you can sign up for one pound per month trial and you could actually start selling right away. Learning a little bit about you, I was kind of interested to hear that you were shy really as a kid.

Like you weren't... Just to them. Are you? So you would consider yourself an introvert? Yeah, I mean... What was the... There's always reading something the other day. day that, you know, there's no such thing, introvert, all those different things anymore.

And there was one in between. There's a middle ground. Yeah, I heard about that. You can go to a party and you can be the life of the party and have to be that life party. But then you have to have two days by yourself. Yeah. So you, when you need to be, you can be. But actually, yeah.

Were you when you were a kid? Or were you just shy? No, I was shy. So you've learned. I hate you having my photo taken. That sounds the weirdest thing in the world. What, still? If someone comes up to me then and says,

can we have a photo or can we do a photo? And I'm still, like, literally like that. Oh my gosh. And it's the weirdest thing. You've been in the industry for 25 years. That's different. When you're on a set, that's sort of butt having your photo taken as a, I barely have anything, any photos of me around the house or anything.

Like, it's quite a weird thing. Do you find it hard to look at photos of yourself? I criticize them a lot. Do you? I just absolutely, I just absolutely, going to have to rip them to pieces. Because also especially when I'm on the creative side of it now. So you're, you know, I'm taken a shot over here with the team and the crew. But I've, you know, come up with a crave somewhere.

I'm checking it to go, no, that's not right. Let's move. Let's do this. Well, that's great. So I'm just having to put. So I don't see it. I think the same way. I know a good picture.

I don't even see me. Yes. I just see the whole thing. I said, yep, the clothes look amazing. It looks amazing. That background. Yeah. As a whole of, I think.

still believe in incredible creative and shots. Yes. And so that's different. And, but yeah, so I, yeah, I just criticize what I see somewhere and trying to improve it. You know, that, I mean, after 25 years, I would recognize on set that I would know where a shot should be. But you can't ever tell a photographer, you go, just by the way, I think I know where this should be. You're never going to do that. But you do.

But what I used to do, if there was a problem, we can't get this shot, this is a problem, I'd be like, and it's over there. So I would just go, one's gonna sit over here. So I'd go and sit in the position like. And then they'd see the light and they go, oh my God. I'm a genius, this is amazing. This is, let's do a shot here.

I just say, well, so that's why I'd be like, yeah, it's great. I, because I'm quite interested in you as a kid, because as a parent, you are in a wonderful time of parenting now. What, your girls are four and seven. Yeah. And my youngest has just turned 19. And I keep thinking, if I could go back and do it all again, I would tomorrow. Yeah.

Because I would be so much more relaxed. And what I'm hearing now, if there's anybody watching with young kids, you know, you were shy. But look at you now. Like, don't stress about it because it would make it worse. talking to two good friends of Matilda's their twins. One of them is a great friend. I was talking to the dad

the other day. And we were saying that how the twins, the girls, were completely different. One loves her own space, will do her homework. The other one can't get to their own. It needs to be around people. And that is a bit like, also it's a bit like me and Steph, Steph gets energy from people, from parties,

from, and it takes, it saps my energy. So I need to, I'll just go off on my own. This was very hard thing to explain to stuff when first started dating. This is very, very like me and my husband. I totally get that. Yeah. I also heard that you go to the cinema on your own.

When you're travelling so much, you don't often have people to go and do something with. Or you've been around so many people. I just kind of want to go to the cinema. You don't speak to anyone on the cinema. That was always my logical explanation. You don't sit there and talk. I tell you, it is quite scary. If you ever go to cinema and no one else is in there.

No one else turns up for the movie. Once I did that and sort of, you know, like a really big. cinema and I was sort of looking around going, okay, now it's turned into a bit creepy. That was a bit scary. No, I would just to be on my, on the, on my own, it wasn't, it doesn't bother me has never bothered me when I was a kid. I mean, I used to venture as well. Like I think that, I think my mum thought I was a runner or something at points there was,

I used to go off and I needed stuff done and needed things needed to be done. And you go off on your own and do it. I would go off and the freedom they realized that I needed that. I think that's when I got to, I saw very much follow the trend and went to university and felt entrapped. I mean, I was felt entrapped at school, but uni, I'd be like, hang on, how many hours have we got? We're 10 hours a week, but we're here a week. I would just take the car. I'd be driving to go and see other people, going and do whatever I needed to do.

It felt very restrictive to me. Okay, guys, I need you in my. my Begin Again gang. Listen, it's the most funnest, most awesome club in the whole world and I want you to be part of it. So when you sign up to our newsletter, you get all the bits that I don't share anywhere else. Things that I'm loving, what I'm reading, my favourite outfits, some of the most gorgeous Begin Again stories that you've sent in. I actually really love reading those. It's one of my favourite parts of the week. And the really fun bit is I will also share some begin again secrets like what guests we've got coming up and you'll know before anyone else does.

Shh, don't tell everyone. So come and join the best gang ever. The links right below and it just takes five seconds and it's free. And the other really big thing I think I'd like to talk to you about is the fact that you, you were a bit sporty, but you weren't. jock, you know, you weren't the kind of team captain, but you, but you, you were a bit overweight when you were a kid and then you grew. So again, for parents, don't stress about it. Help them eat healthily, get them active. What, were your parents ever worried about that? Did they try and talk to you about it or did they just let you go? No, because there's nothing I wasn't sitting around on video games and I was, I mean, I never sit still. I drive so stuff around, you

around the bend. Last week, you know, she would wake up and go, she had these nine, ten hours of sleep. And I'm there, like, in the morning, working up. And she goes into a room, she went, have you built perhaps this new bit? I'm like, yeah, couldn't sleep last bored. I started at midnight and finished at half-past four,

and I built the bed. How many hours do you sleep a night? I mean, I can, like, probably six, but I can live on four. I don't even think about it. But again, traveling in the, industry for 25 years. You live on a nap. You live on a couple of hours on a plane. There's no, there's no these days going, oh, my aura ringed only told me, I've had six

hours of bad sleep. I'm like, so? That's my, and I'm praying an old school, I'm like, get on with it. But it's one of these things when people, because I won't be up early in the morning. I'm not a morning person. So when people say to me, and I often look, when I say, well, I got up at four o'clock or five, four in a night, and I go, what are you? doing. And I know it might be training or something else. But my idea is that because we're still working with the American market and sometimes we are still having to deal with, you know, L.A. time and be on the phone at 11 o'clock

is the equivalent of the afternoon. So that's always going to work. Yeah, it's quite hard. But when everyone's in bed and will sleep, that's when I get so much done. Michael, my partner, often gets people asking him about me. And they go, yeah, but she's addicted to exes. size, isn't she? She's addicted to it. And he's like, and the thing that's wrong with that is... About about that, yeah. And I just wondered what people's perception of you was, because I think it's quite interesting about modelling that modelling went from. When I started, it was all about the body, the David Donald, you know, you had to be a 40 regular, but buff as anything, like absolutely rock solid everywhere.

Yeah. And then it suddenly changed and everybody needed to be skinny men. And that's what I came into. Yeah, so tell me what that was like for you because it's quite, you know, women, we all go, they asked you to lose weight, but actually male models get that too. Yeah, I mean, I didn't, but I mean, there was a, I wasn't fitting anything. I wasn't, I'm not what I would call a big size. I was a 40, you know, 40 regular.

and and um but yeah it was a stage of going to castings and i would never i wouldn't be able to get the trousers past my thighs i was only like the big or the big guys coming in and i wasn't big especially at that stage i got bigger and there was kind of sight to me that went and i needed i knew what i wanted to be um and what made me feel gooding myself and confident and that to me was being fit and being healthy and training and and and and and learning like i couldn't play sports anymore because we were traveling. I was traveling so much. And so it was the gym.

And so I actually would say that when Dolce came up with this creative, they wanted this bigger, more classic-looking Mediterranean, more muscular guy that the actual pond to fish from at that point wasn't big because everyone had followed the training and gone skinnier. And I had gone the other way. When did you start training? I always did some at school because I was playing a lot of sport. Oh, you did do a lot of sports then?

Oh, yeah, I played everything. I could be outside the classroom. Yeah, absolutely everything. Football, rugby, anything, athletics. I did it all, as I said, to get out of the classroom. Actually, what more men need, if I'm what more boys need is more and more sport, more and more competitive sport. Get them out of the classroom and get them. Men are still the same way.

So the same thing with, I've got two girls. I can see boys. I see men as, you know, exhaust them, feed them. They're happy in many ways and make sure they're appreciative and we're appreciative of them. And we're fairly simple creatures sometimes. But my goals are the same. We're biking. We're in the, you know, we're in Richmond Park.

We're hunting for toads. We're climbing. Where we're currently, you know, just learn always like to cycle. So on the bikes. And that's kind of my idea of, I'm so against, you know, kids just sitting around on, on, on, don't be wrong. on laptops and didn't mind films but just trying to get them off the screen

so I'm constantly like my kids choose it they're like daddy where are you going and they can be indoors and we say look have an hour just chill either on a pad or watching a film

and they're like where you going? I'm like going outside to do some garden there can we come and they get their gardening gloves on and come and help me destroy the garden

and they think that's more fun what you've done really because your parents really loved you but they weren't massively present. They were working. They were working, yeah. All hours of the day and night.

But what you are, it sounds like, is very present. You've changed. Well, I think we have to be, I mean, I think we are the first. I say we are the first generation of dabs to have to be more present in every way, whether that's schooling, whether it's cooking, whether it's shopping, whether it's those, the roles have not changed. They've just evolved a little bit. And why is that same?

important. Whether it is important or whether it's not, everyone's different. I'm not saying that's a good thing. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm not saying it works for some couples. It doesn't work for others. It's just completely whatever works for you. Adapt it, but don't try and...

I think people are, well, if a husband doesn't do that, he's a bad person, that's what works in that relationship and vice versa. But everyone is trying to pigeonholed people on how something should be. But I think being present for your children, and I've made that a purpose in my life for the first six, seven years for me to be around and be involved and not to have to leave it to Steph.

And Steph's working. She's a barrister as well. So we do have to juggle those roles and be a proper partnership to our children. If Luke Christian, I don't think me and stuff have got a balance right between we haven't had that much time because we don't have...

You and Steph together. This is Steph together. Can I say something? As an elder stateswoman, I'm ahead of you and our children, our youngest of our five blended kids, is 19. We've now got time. And that starts a bit earlier, you know, it starts when you can go out for a night

or maybe away for a night and all the kids look after it. It's mega. But it's under different people with circumstances, it's some people who have parents nearby and they're going to say, we've never had that. The closest are two hours away. Other parents are five hours away. So it's harder. We've never had that luxury.

So that's something we've had, we have decided to sacrifice for our children. And to honestly, we love experiencing everything with our children. And that's something my mum and dad talked to me is like travel-wise, we had a very normal upbringing. We didn't when it came to travel because my dad thinks is David Attenborough the 2nd. So he literally would, and we would just be in these incredible holidays, we just don't really appreciate it. But we're in the Amazon rainforest, Catching Parano. We're in Brooks Falls with the brown bears clapping our hands so they know you're here. We're in every part of Africa, desert elephants, trekking gorilla in, trekking gorilla.

Borneo, we've been in the orangutans. We've been everywhere around the world. So my dad in some way, my mom and dad, because they, in some ways with education guiding us into probably careers or universities, they never did it. They couldn't do it. But dad was just like, I knew how much we could be taught through travel. through different cultures. How form it was that for you? You don't realize it at the time at all.

But I did once meet David Attenborough. What? What? How? We were, at an event, I went to go and support for him. He lives in Richmond. He says Richmond is one of his favorite, I have all the places been in Richmond,

one of his favorite places in the world. I met him, and I'm probably, I think I was moving to Richmond. I said, we're moving to Richmond. And then I started to talk about, because, you know, his famous trip with the guerrillas being around guerrillas, I said I came about like a few years ago when I tracked for gorillas. I called Puran and we were talking about that like no one in the room could. And I called dad and just said, yeah, yeah.

I was like, I've never, you know, sort of mentioned it. But I also said to him once when I was about 1718 and I had a very crappy 10-year-old Ford Fiesta. And I said to my dad once, I said, dad, we're off. I go into Alaska, I think. And I said, could I, instead of a very expensive, but I could probably do the new car. So could I not have the money towards, you know, the holiday, we have a new car? My dad, I don't think you can probably look to me from his desk and you just went, well, you don't have to come on a holiday, David, but you're not getting any money for a new car. So I did

decide, are you staying here for somewhere or are you coming with us? I think I might come with you. You're a good decision. Get out in my office. And it was, but again, listen, that's mentoring. That's, they don't need a flash car. That's not about it. What you're going to learn from is, you know, watching glacier and going kayaking by a glacial. sure in Alaska. And you're like, yeah, you look upon that now and go, yeah, you're right. And that's having someone a mentor in your life or having someone to guide you, not mental, but, you know, a guidance in that part of your life.

I mean, I'd like to talk to you about your work around men and masculinity and how important that is to you and how lost a whole generation of young men are. Because I think, and I'm so excited to hear you talk about it. as a man because it's women have had this great opportunity to start working and have a great career and we bear the children but we are in a partnership and and men are just trying to find their way into how do I fit in you know to the family if I'm not fully the provider anymore and what how does it work and it is difficult for men to find their feet. Can you just talk to me a bit about how it was that you realised that? And I quickly

want to just discuss about the kind of generation of your father and mother. They were not the generation to be effusive with I love you's. And I'm so proud of you, not like us. So, you know, it's all good and well for us to go, but they never told us they were proud. They just didn't do it. But they were. Right? Like what was it that made you kind of look? look at men and think, actually, do you know what, we're struggling, or young men are struggling to find their place? Well, first of my parents never needed to tell me. They loved me because they were there when I needed them.

They were present, when I need them to be present. No, I mean, from the lost boys campaign, which is one I'm working on with the Center for Social Justice, the CSJ. Could you just tell everyone about that? Because this is important, really important. Well, this was, I've been talking about male suicide for a long time, really opening up about any dark periods I've had about how I've got over them. I think hopefully talking to experts, how you can,

there isn't any one, what I have to sort of put problem solving behind it or any solutions to it. But I always feel like it's nice to feel that other people are going, through it or whatever and and we are talking we're the same needs we could do a whole podcast on it you know it's kind of changing men yes men do need to talk and I believe in that but biologically men don't and this is a thing you have to understand it's not it's not natural to you like it is to women no no no no no it's not and I think hopefully men are getting better

but it's a very easy thing to say men could talk because they they simply don't and a lot all the time, there's a lot of people that don't want to listen to them or listen to what they have to say. And anyway, if they do in this world, they'll probably criticize them because I'll say something that they don't like. And then that's end of conversation. So I think it's a very difficult thing. So I've been saying it for a while.

It's the biggest killer. It was the biggest killer of men under 40. It was the biggest killer of men under 45. It's now the biggest killer of men under 50, so I believe. So it isn't getting better. No. It's getting worse. And so the CSJ approached me and said about this, lost every year.

We talked about the lost generation of boys between 16 and 24 that have pretty much been demonized and told that they are a massive problem. Toxic masculinity has been brought into such a conversation now, which wasn't probably 10 years ago, 15 wasn't even heard of. But it's been brought around by social media. So I've got into this toxic masculinity. and can I can I say one thing what sometimes when I hear that phrase I think what would it feel like if somebody attached the word toxic to femininity and it's it's like poisoning the essence of you like it's I understand what people mean by it and it's it's a mindset of a certain people who are frightened and don't know what to do or where to go. And it feels unhelpful, I think, that phrase in some way. It is very unhelpful.

And we are, we're talking about in a sense that when you're talking about, so if you're talking maybe on a sports field, you're talking about the competitiveness, the competitiveness of a man on a sports field. And they'll go, he's so competitive. He's dominance of this team, the dominance of that character, the hard work, all those different things on a football field. Now, that is male biological traits.

That's a lot of them are. And what you're trying to say is you can't have them. Outside of maybe the football field, you're saying, if there's elements of that, that it's toxic and that's rubbish, and that's the difference of it. So your other young men being told they're toxic. And a lot of young women are being taught that they are toxic. This was part of the CSJ's report saying,

Actually, a large percentage of six-formers are being, or schools are being told that men are toxic and they are a problem. It's clearly being said this on social media. I think that's what it being fed. And then you've got the statistic. There's something about 60% of young women are frightened of young men. And so when these stats started coming in, and I was like, well, this is, and it was actually from schools. Schools approached the CSJ to say, there is a. problem here with our men. They're not confident. They don't know what to do. They're falling

behind on education. They're falling behind on all levels of communication. And then you're seeing what I was then talking about and I did a lot of research on was a Manosphere. And what Louis Thruers has done a brilliant documentary on. But actually, I had to do my research before going to the House of Parliament talking about what I was talking about, the Lost Boys. I didn't really understand what that was. Obviously, we know the names of Andrew Tate, but, and so CSJ gave me a number of links, a number of people to look at, and I did a bit of a deep dive into it and couldn't quite

believe. Yeah. It's not that I couldn't quite believe it, because I look at a lot of social media and think, what a load of crap or what are people watching? So we've got to understand that it's part of social media, and what they are spewing is, is immature, immature insecurities of what. what they are saying, but what came out of the Luther through documentation, what came out of that is like, yeah, to me, that, if you're unregulatory on social media and you can make

money from saying it and people following you, you're going to say it because they're making vast amounts of money from it. You're going to do it. You have to, what you have to understand is you have to educate those guys to say, so their, their content is crap, but their, how can you put it, their way that they are, talking to young men, you have to admire because they are talking to young men. And young men are listening. And no one else is.

So why are young men to do it? What you do is you need a lot of good people, mentors, positive peoples, to rein that in. And so I say, look, you have to realize that this is crap. Or you do a very simple thing. When I'm all against is you take under 16-year-olds off of social media altogether and you ban it. Did you just say you're against it? No, I'm for it. Oh, you're for it.

I was going to say it. I've been for it. I'm against social media. Somebody described it the other day as you can see your kids changing. You can shut them in the house. You can shut the doors. Keep them safe.

But there's one door you can't open. Once they go into their bedroom, there's another door inside their bedroom and you can't get to that one because they're in their bedroom. Everything you are trying to protect your children from and this outside, when we close their door. You're literally handing them that time's one other. Yeah.

On that screen time. Okay, so David, let's just talk about what people can do. So women, men, people need to speak out and be mentors and be positive around young men. What, like, give us talk. Well, the CSJ suggested there's not enough role models in men. Men, men, Robbins. There's a lot of young men grown up without a stable family, without a father in their life. I will argue against that slightly of it just relying on being men because my mentor, as we've gone back to, was Tandy Anderson. So I think this is something that mums and dads and uncle and aunts and everyone can get involved in helping them.

And, you know, maybe you can ask us, are we actually talking about anything positive about masculinity at the moment? There are so many positives of masculinity, so many. And I'm coming from this to be. You'd probably think if you were listening to me that I've got two sons and I'm worried about it, I've got two daughters. But I'm worried the fact that the way my daughters will be taught, like I think a lot of, we're looking at social media, which hopefully they will never, under my watch,

taught about men and how to, it's about treating people. It's about having respect for both of us, about men and women. So I've never wanted to make this a they and them situation. It's all of it involved to talk about masculinity in a positive way like we do with women and guys and not have this. Yes, there are toxic men, not denying that whatsoever. They're also toxic women. But we're just focusing on this small demographic and people making monies from it. And they're very insecure, little men that are trying to take the, the inner.

which you are at a younger age and the insecurity of those men and manipulate them into many ways. And you are so vulnerable at that stage that it takes someone good to go, no, no, hang on, this is not the way you treat people. This is not the way you speak about women. This is not the way you speak about people. Become a gentleman. Become a certain traits that we need to instill into young men again. What was becoming peculiar to me was situations like this for interviews. wanting me to define masculinity.

That's why I thought was very strange and everyone's, the narrative was defined masculinity. What's masculinity? And I wasn't going to define it. I don't know. I'm always so not sure if I really can define it. There are traits of good people and that's the most important thing. But it's a very complicated subject.

It's guidance. I think you said it earlier. You said about Tandy being, you know, your mentors. A lot of people don't have it. that's the difference. So I can't say... We owe it to kids to be guides online and there aren't enough. You just said that.

You're so right. More people have got to just go out with kind of just advice and tips and hints. The thing is, I think, just stop demonise and beating down on young men and they won't look for that outlet. I think that is a massive, like, it's a problem. Stop telling them they are toxic and they are the problem and talk about the positives. of it. As I say, I have two young daughters. Now, all our books are about what women have achieved in life and the brilliant women in the world and what can be. And of course I want to teach my daughters that. We also need to teach about what people have done, what men have done, what we've all achieved together, not making it and us and them and his and help, but we live in a very polar-ed world. So that's what I'm trying to get across to people. It's got to be equal. Yeah. Let's look at everybody.

Well, that's what equality is. everybody. Absolutely. What I'd like to do is tell you a little bit of a funny story. So I was reading about how you growing up sort of decided that you wanted to look nice. And I really appreciate that in you. Am I right and saying it makes you feel good about yourself? It's your confidence.

Yes, it gives you confidence. It gives you a little bit of a pep in your step. Do you know what I mean? Absolutely. And I got to the lift today to come to work. And I had my back with me. and I was just waiting for the lift and I looked down at my shoes

and I was like I had to go back into the flat and polish my shoes for you because you said that you enjoy polishing your shoes with your girls I don't think these are

that is so cute well they just yeah I have a little shy a friend bought me a shining kit and once I was sitting down I was polishing my shoes because I was taught you polish your shoes you look after your your

it's not about you go and go It's self-care. Yeah, you have shiny. My dad did and my dad did. Because, I know this is going to sound like a stupid catchphrase, but because you're worth it. Do you know what I mean?

Like, you, it's not for anybody else. No. It's not because you want to press anybody else. It's for you. Yeah. Well, it is. There's a satisfaction about doing it and having shiny shoes. Good.

It's good. David. I love you. Thank you. I do. Thank you. That's very kind. I really, really do.

This was absolutely great. You are very inspiring, and this is going to be amazing for a lot of people. You've helped a lot of people. So thank you. Well, thank you. Thanks. So just in case you missed this episode here, if you love this episode, I know you're going to love that.