Begin Again with Davina McCall - Deliciously Ella: Why Diets Feel Impossible & How To Enjoy Food Again (It’s not your willpower)

Episode Date: January 8, 2026

Reset Month Episode 2: NOURISH! @DeliciouslyElla In this episode of Begin Again, plant-based author and entrepreneur Deliciously Ella shares her personal journey of transforming her health through food and why nourishing your body doesn’t need to be complicated. As part of Reset Month, Ella opens up about how she went from feeling unwell and overwhelmed to finding a simpler, more joyful way of eating that supports both physical and mental wellbeing. She explains how wellness culture has made healthy living feel confusing and unattainable and how getting back to basic, whole foods can be a powerful antidote. Together, we explore easy, realistic steps to improve your diet, feel better in your body, and create lasting habits that work for you and your family. Ella also speaks to the urgent health challenges we’re facing as a society, and how small, sustainable changes can make a big difference for our own lives and the wider world. This is an inspiring, grounded conversation for anyone ready to reset their relationship with food and start living a healthier life, without the noise. Like , comment , and subscribe for more Reset Month episodes. Tap the bell to stay updated! ✨Don't miss out on our amazing RESET giveaway! Sign up for the Begin Again newsletter at beginagainshow.com?utm_source=megaphone&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=reset for your chance to win over £750 worth of incredible prizes. Stay updated on all things Begin Again and get exclusive insights, giveaways, and more!💚 Follow us here: www.instagram.com/beginagain https://www.tiktok.com/@beginagainpod (00:00) Intro (01:20) How Deliciously Ella Started (02:02) Ella's Health Struggles and the Power of Diet (13:57) Searching for Community and Connection (16:53) The Birth of the Deliciously Ella Brand (18:23) How to Create Habits That Stick (23:26) Lindt Chocolate ad (24:33) Ancient + Brave ad (25:40) The Dangers of Ultra-Processed Food (29:03) Ella’s Healing Journey and Finding Purpose (32:43) From Bestselling Cookbook to Meeting Her Husband (38:40) From Small Café to Scaling the Business (42:44) Ella’s Food Philosophy Explained (48:41) Inside Ella’s New Cookbook: *Quick Wins* (52:58) The Evolution of Ella’s Food Manifesto (54:36) Managing Stress and the 4 Pillars of Health (58:20) Building Strong Foundations and Keeping It Simple (01:02:15) Why Listening to Your Body Matters (01:05:50) Behind the Mic: Ella’s Podcast *The Wellness Scoop* Sponsored by: Discover Lindt Excellence… Expect Delicious. Adobe - https://Adobe.Ly/Davina Ancient + Brave - https://ancientandbrave.earth/pages/planet and use code BEGINAGAIN for 20% off your order Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Amazon presents Laura versus Fruitflies. Swarming your fruit and terrorizing your kitchen, these little freaks multiply at a rate that would make a rabbit say yo. Chill. But Laura shopped on Amazon and saved on cleaning spray, countertop wipes, and fly traps. Hey, fruit flies, your baby boom ends here. Save the Everyday with Amazon. We are in a kind of national health crisis where our health is the worst it's ever been.

Our diets get worse by the year. People think it's expensive and then it feels time consuming because you've got so many steps. I think we just set ourselves up for failure. And you don't want to feel like a failure in January. No. Since your illness, you've built an enormous empire just trying to help people be more well. What was your diet like then? If you had asked me at the time and I would have said, that's quite good.

And then really out of nowhere, I got really, really ill. I had gone from completely normal university student, living my best life. And then I was in hospital having MRIs, ultrasounds, swallowing cameras, you name it. The doctor, as I said, like, you just don't have anything else to try anymore. The kind of fear of that really woke me up.

What kept you going? One of the biggest markers of longevity and health span is I felt able to kind of live a normal life again. But then the world of wellness has exploded, that it's almost become a kind of marketing gimmick. all these kind of gadgets and gizmos. You don't need to buy any of those things. I didn't particularly like fruits and vegetables.

And I swear to you, if I can do it, you can do it. I got to my perfect weight when I stopped dieting. Yeah, I bet you did because I'm taking control of my narrative and my life. What are your top tips? Yeah, I think the first thing is. Eleanor Mills, also deliciously, Ella. Hi! Hi!

So nice to have you here. I mean, what haven't you done really? You know, the blog. the podcast, the empire, plant-based empire, helping us to all be, I kind of want to say more well, because it's such a holistic view that you take that I really like. But welcome to the podcast. Thank you. And thanks for coming on.

Thank you for having me. I knew you, obviously, and probably mostly through your brand when your brand came out, my daughter who's a dietitian. Oh, okay. She loves, loves your podcast. And so she used to talk to me about that quite a bit. Then I kind of looked into you a bit more and realized that actually, since your illness, you've really kind of built an enormous empire just trying to help people through food.

And it had such an enormous impact on your health. health in when was it, 2012? Yeah, that's right. That's when it all started. Yeah. So can I ask, first of all, what happened to you and how did you get ill? Yeah. Gosh, it's such a long story.

Yeah. So then the year before that, so 2011, I was at university. I was studying history of art, nothing to do with food. I really wasn't interested in food. It just didn't play a big role in my life. What was your diet like then? Well, it's really interesting because I think if you had asked me at the time, I'd mean like, yeah, it's normal.

Like, you know, I don't get a sandwich and buy some cereal and just order what a fancy. Like, I just didn't give it much airtime. And I would have said, like, yeah, it's quite good. And I think now with the lens that I have, but we all collectively have in terms of starting to think about ultra-process foods and realizing like some sandwiches have 38 ingredients. That's mad, isn't it? Insane. And, you know, same with like cereal.

there's a health claim on the front and then you turn over the back of pack and you're like, oh, okay, there's nothing in here nutritious whatsoever and most of it's like food like substances, not actually food. And so actually I think if I look at what my diet was, it was heavily ultra-processed, actually like massively lacking in fresh fruit and veg and whole grains and whole foods. But it wasn't like I lived in McDonald's and only ate pick a mix kind of thing. Like I wouldn't have thought it was unhealthy, but actually if you look at it, I think it was that prime example of why food so hard to navigate, because actually there was little nutrition in most of what I was eating. This is the problem really, and I know we're going to really

deep into this today, but it's just so frustrating. I was exactly the same. I thought I was doing well, and now I look back and realize I was being fed a lie, literally. Yeah, it's one of the biggest frustrations that I have in terms of the food industry is I just think there's so much misleading information out there. And no one looks at a packet of harrybow or like lint chocolate truffles and thinks, oh, those are a health food. They're not. We all know that. So I don't actually feel like that's a fundamental issue. The challenge is obviously just the scale of these things, but it's so much more on the fact that like something will say, like a very sugary cereal says on the front, supporting your family's health. But actually it has a sprinkle of multivitamin or

vitamin D on it and that allows you to make a health claim. And actually when you look on the back a pack, there's zero nutrition, like literally zero nutrition. And that's the normal breakfast. And it just doesn't set us up. And it's not about demonizing ever eating these things, but it's just the balance that we have in terms of kind of one in five people managing to get their five a day. The majority of calories coming from ultra-processed food, it's just the wrong way around. Ultimately, it's opposed to kind of being the vast majority of our calories coming from natural, like, whole food ingredients with a little bit of X, Y, and Z added on is great. And we're we just need to switch the balance around essentially.

Sometimes it's even just the word cereal, but for cereal, cereal sounds healthy, doesn't it? It's like a kind of... Totally. And some of it is, and that's why it's such a minefield. It's such a minefield. But I'd never given any of this, like two seconds of thought all the way back in 2011. And then really out of nowhere, I was 20, 20, 21, I got really, really ill. And it happened pretty suddenly within the space of, say, two or three months I had gone from,

completely normal university student, living my best life. And then I was in hospital having MRIs, ultrasounds, endoscopies, conoscopies, swallowing cameras, you know, like you name it. What were your symptoms? Literally everything, which is really unhelpful. And it created a lot of confusion, which took a long time to therefore get a diagnosis because I saw neurologist, gastroenterologist, you know, endocrinologists, like just so many different specialists. in a very colloquial way, it looks a lot like long COVID, in the sense of nothing's really working in so many different ways and no one's exactly sure why and what to do about it. So I had really bad chronic fatigue. I would sleep kind of up to 18 hours a day. I mean, we could be all here together doing something and I would literally just be like, I can't do this anymore.

And I would honestly just lie down. You could just guys could be having such a loud conversation. I would just pass out for like two or three hours next to you. I used to do it in the car. and then mom would get out the car, lock the car, and go and do like a full shop for food and come back in. I hadn't even realized. So really crippling chronic fatigue.

Like a tiredness where the idea of kind of like moving your arm is too difficult. Really bad brain fog, pain, just kind of full body pain. I had really bad infections. I was on antibiotics with I think the longest break being 48 hours, almost three years. Wow. Because I made, many years. Couldn't get a hold of any infections, basically.

I had really, really bad stomach problems, kind of, I say bloating, but I was more, like more pregnant then than I did when I was like seven, seven and a half months pregnant with my daughter. And then one of the defining characteristics of the condition I had was that I couldn't control my heart rate. So I'd sit down, my heart rate would be completely normal. And then as soon as I stood up, it'd be 180, 190. Yeah, within a second or so. Which feels terrified too, doesn't it?

It's so fine. The palpitations that you get. It just, again, it's the sense of your body's kind of completely. out of your control and you then also feel so dizzy. It's like your head's disconnected from your body, basically. And then just weird symptoms, like terrible pins and needles everywhere all the time, and just because circulation was so poor. So it was this really crazy kind of full body, hey, you are.

It's like the best way to explain it. So I was prescribed a whole series of different medications, like steroids, beta blockers, kind of, I think on like the peak, I was on almost 25 different medications a day. But they're all repurposed from other conditions. So no one promise that they would work. But I had completely gone into it with this sense of like,

someone else will fix my problem. I'll take anything. I'll take anything. Yeah. Whatever it takes. And then I'll just revert back to my life as it was. I'll see this as a pause. And after about, I don't know,

it's kind of about eight months or so. after diagnosis, I had then cycled through all the various possible medications at this point that I could take and nothing had really changed. What did they say it was in the end? It was a collection of different things, but the main thing was something called postural tachycardia syndrome and that's this heart rate problem.

But then I had something called mass cell activation disorder as well and a few other challenges. And no one's sure why it happened or anything in, you know, I had, I tested positive, but it was for glandular fever, but I'd never had any symptoms. I'd had a really, really bad food poisoning very shortly beforehand, so who knows what kicked it off, but obviously something did. And I just remember so clearly, I kind of had, I had this conversation with the doctor, as I said, it was sort of six, eight months into this cycling through the different medications, and he said, like, we just don't have anything else

to try anymore. And it was just the moment that it, like, sunk in that this was my life. and I couldn't really live, you know, isn't I, there was nothing, I couldn't live any semblance of a normal life. And I had completely taken for granted that as something that I would do. You know, I could get a job and live independently and choose if I wanted to get married or have children. And I didn't have this like set plan for my life. I wasn't someone who'd grown up being like, I've always dreamed of doing X, Y, or Z, I've always dreamed this will be my life. I really didn't know what I wanted from life. And I feel like it could have gone in so many different directions. but I had taken for granted that sense of an independent life with possibility.

And also I think you were at university, you'd just made loads of friends, you'd started going out and having a social life and you just start living at that age, don't you? It's like suddenly the whole world opens up, but yours just shut down. And it was such a strange age as well, I think, to be ill in that sense, because everyone is living this life as infinite possibility. You know, I look at, I feel like I'm in that stage now where lots of my friends are very, very busy, with work or small children or various different responsibilities and everyone's lives

are quite small at the moment. Whereas I think that age in your early 20s, everyone's lives feel huge and people are travelling and they're having all these great experiences and I was watching them by refreshing Facebook and just kind of seeing other people's lives unfold. It was just really sad. Just this idea of you refreshing Facebook and seeing everybody else living the life you should be living. God. But it was a really interesting. one because I couldn't, for that period, I couldn't take any level of personal responsibility.

And not that it was my fault, but I couldn't, I was in such a state of kind of apathy at this point that that was the only thing I could do. I couldn't really grasp a sense of like, what else can I do? How could I also try and help myself? I think I so wanted someone else to have the answer. And I felt so reliant on that. And I remember my dad saying to me, like, I think, or depressed, you know, I think you need to talk to someone. And I just had this sense of, no, I can't, I can't do that because I can't have something else, quote, unquote, wrong with me. Like, I just couldn't. Wow. So even though, mentally it was too much, you couldn't even go and talk about it because that's too much. Yeah, exactly. It was like nothing. If someone else tells

me I have something else wrong, essentially, with me, I can't take it. I'm like, so I'm just going to, it was a kind of state of apathetic denial, essentially. that there was something wrong and there was something very seriously wrong. I was in a very kind of dark place but I just couldn't I couldn't bring myself to sort of recognise that openly

and I still completely disappeared completely disappeared and I'm sure it didn't help the situation because I think from a mental perspective I was so checked out I didn't have a kind of will and a want to get better

I think if I'm kind of completely honest with retrospect I had completely given up and who she didn't care. I know that New Year can feel really overwhelming and there is so much pressure on everybody to change your entire life overnight and often no one to help you do it but this year is going to be different

because here at Begin Again we are launching Reset Month as part of Reset Month we're also going to launch the Begin Again newsletter Yay! So when you sign up you're going to unlock exclusive bonus content and tools that you can only get through the newsletter and you're going to get some behind the scenes moments.

And this is so good as a little extra. Everyone who signs up is also going to be in with the chance of winning a £500 wellness package packed with prizes from some of our favourite partners to help you reset in the new year. So all you need to do is click on the link in the description. and pop in your email and join the Begin Again newsletter. Join our gang. Let's get ready for the new year together.

So what was the turning point? It was I think it was, it was a realisation which I had completely hid away from of actually kind of the severity of the situation and the realisation through a conversation with my mum that I would never be able to

if I continued like this live a normal life and I think in that, the kind of fear of that really woke me up and like, what will I do? How will I live? And so it was in that and I, it's so, I feel like nowadays it's the first thing you would do, but I don't know, the world of the internet was a little bit different, so this is kind of spring 2012. But I did, I just went about looking for other people's stories

and I wanted to know of other people. I couldn't find many people who had the same condition but I wanted people who'd also done unconventional things to help themselves and it... Where did you look? I don't know exactly know where I started on Google and I ended up on all sorts of kind of weird and wonderful blogs and random tiny books

and all sorts of things because nowadays if you start looking for like the connection between your lifestyle and your diet and your stress and all the rest of it and your health there's so many places to turn and there's so many resources out there and you'd feel kind of immediately part of a community and be able

to kind of find support but at this point trying to say that your diet was connected to your health felt left field which again just find extraordinary like we're not it's not very long ago well 2012 actually in terms of the internet it's a very long time ago you know there wasn't much around

and we were all just learning how to use it weren't we exactly and but I found stories of people all over the world who had used facets of diet and lifestyle and nutrition to change their lives. And I just felt, well, look, if it's work for them, then it might work for me. And I have nothing to lose at this point, like literally nothing. But I couldn't cook. And as I said, I wasn't really interested in food. And I didn't like particularly like fruits and vegetables, which were kind of major obstacles for turning your whole diet around and focusing on a natural plant-based approach. I can't believe that of you.

Like you, so you went from somebody. I'm telling you why I'm amazed by this, because I think people watching or listening will be quite pleased to hear that you've not always been like this. Not at all. We can, if we were like, if we are like how you were, we can be like how you are.

And I remember that was, no, I do. I remember that was really important to me And I remember writing that on the blog when I started it being like, I don't know what I'm doing. If I can do it, you can do it. This isn't complicated. This is like simple home-cooked food. And I swear to you, if I can do it, you can do it because I can't cook. And I've never cooked before.

And I don't know what I'm doing. And this is all a humongous experiment. And so, and I've always felt that. I think cooking is almost like too much for a generalist term because you've got like beautiful Michelin Star. Yes. Chef's an amazing patisserie. And that is a skill and an art and a craft that I don't think everyone can do. Goodness me, no.

But good, just simple home cooking, great tray bates and roast and stir fries and like nutritious pastas and salads. We can all nail that. I really do believe that. Yeah. It can be simple and delicious and nutritious. And I think that's something that's for everyone. And that was really important to me anyway. But I didn't, so I thought, okay, well, look, I can't cook.

I need to find a way to love fruits or vegetables. and I'm such an all-or-nothing person. Like, I got to commit fully, or I have no interest. My husband's, like, always telling me off. He's like, at least feign a tiny bit of interest, like, humor people. Because I'm either, like, obsessed and so passionate or just like, whatever. Which is, it's not great. Although I think it served me well in my career because you kind of do.

It really does, all in. But anyway, but I went so all in. And I was like, right, I'm going to change my whole diet overnight. And to keep myself accountable, I will do it as a blog. And this was the moment, as you say, the internet was just kind of changing and evolving. And people started to look at blogs. And that slight sense of, as you were saying, like, if I can do it, you can do it. That home approach, be it DIY or makeup or food, whatever it was.

It was this sense of like, let's all do it together as opposed to the kind of more elevated approach that I think where you watch something on TV and feel like what's a bit different from me. And again, my Instagram was really new. And I remember a girlfriend saying to me, oh, there's this thing called Instagram. it might be really helpful. So I started a channel and it was called Deliciousiella just because the aim was always to make it delicious. I knew this wasn't like a six-week plan. This wasn't a, you know, like a bikini body situation.

This was I really need to change my diet for the long haul. And I knew that that was never going to be possible. If you always felt you were compromising or depriving yourself, it was never going to work. Yes. It's got to be something where you're like, yes, this is something I really look forward to and I'm excited about. And I think the other thing that,

it is amazing, is that you made it so simple. A hundred percent. And I think that's the most important approach. Like it's so easy with diet and lifestyle. And I think particularly the beginning of year where people start getting the sense, I've got to overhaul everything. I'm never going to do this again. I'm going to go to 5 o'clock and run a marathon single morning.

And have a 92-step routine. It will be the new me. And ultimately, it's just life is so demanding of everybody. And it comes with all sorts of ebbs and flows and trials and tribulations. And the reality is with most of those commitments, it's not that you don't have the willpower. I think that's such a myth. It's just that life will come at you as it does for everyone on different days and it will become overwhelming. And the reality is, I think, then executing those, like, huge grand plans become so difficult.

Whereas if what you say is, I'm going to just make these small tweaks, these little changes, I'm going to add this in. And you'll ask yourself really honestly, like, is this a habit that I could do daily-ish, weekly-ish for the next decade? Yes. If the answer is yes, like get going with it. And if the answer is no, I would look at a different habit because it's so much more empowering to feel like, yes, I'm doing it. I'm looking after myself.

I feel empowered in my health and in my well-being. Then it is to be like, oh, I've just failed again. There's no point. And especially around food. I mean, the other thing I think that the barriers, I think, are things like people think that it's too expensive. people think that it is too time consuming that cooking, I mean this is the other real problem

with ultra-processed foods and I would like to get onto this in a minute but these are the barriers I think it takes too long it costs too much money and... I think taste comes in. Yes, I guess so because like fat and sugar. Yeah, it's ultimately it's this nervousness like it's broccoli and lentil is really going to be a delicious supper. It's a valid question because I think these aren't foods we've like heralded as the most delicious items under the sun.

And equally, I think we've had this weird change. And I'm sure you've seen this very, very much as well where, as we were just saying, kind of 15 years ago, the wellness world as it is today didn't really exist. It was a niche corner of the internet. And now, depending who stats you take, it's a multi-trillion dollar industry. Yes. You know, it's enormous. And I think that people now associate wellness with having to buy. very expensive gadgets and gizmos and powders and all of these things. And ultimately, like,

you don't need to do any of those things. Like where all of the research really sits is in really simple things. Like connection with other people. One of the biggest markers of longevity and health span is being connected and feeling part of a community and feeling socialised with other people that mean something to you. And it's movement. And at the time of the most studied movement, walking. Like going for a 20 minute walk on your lunch break with a friend. That will do one for your health. And that's something we could probably all with a little motivation do more days than we don't. Same with our diet. It's about adding in and it's for, you know, a Mediterranean-style diet, very plant-rich. It's like a tin of chickpeas here, an extra bit of roasted broccoli there.

Like it's really simple things that are fundamentally the foundation of our health. And I think that's been one of the really interesting dichotomies for me over the last 15 years is seeing how the world of wellness has exploded, that it's almost become a kind of marketing gimmick. And at the same time, our health's worse than it's ever been less vegetables than any time the last 50 years. So it's like the world doesn't make sense, does it? So complete failure, as I see it. And I just think it's become a kind of marketing ploy in so many ways. And it's like, you must buy this and you must buy that.

You don't need to. You can. You don't need to buy any of those things. Because that's what makes everybody think everything's expensive. They think it's expensive. And then it feels time consuming because you've got so many steps and there's this whole routine and you see online and people are doing a morning shed where they're taking off like, 4,000 things and then they're standing on a vibration plate with a red light mask and then they're like drinking a green powder and you know it's a lot and it's it's a lot and you can do all of it but you don't need to you can prep some overnight oats and take them on the train like that would be excellent i mean it god it's so funny because you just sound like my daughter so good that ladies and gentlemen is the sound of our new sponsor no it's not a chiropractor business It's Lint Excellence Dark Chocolate, expertly crafted by the Lintmaster Chocolatier.

I absolutely love it. And when I want something delicious that isn't so sweet that I feel like I've face-planted a cake, this is what I reach for. Lint Excellence Dark Chocolate is made using the finest quality ingredients so you get a richer, smoother and more flavourful dark chocolate experience. I literally cannot get enough of their 70% cocoa bar, which only has four pure ingredients. It's so good.

So look, if you want to discover the simply iconic Lint Excellence dark chocolate, and I highly recommend that you do, you will find the range in supermarkets nationwide as well as in Lint Retail stores and also in their e-shop. Discover Lint Excellence. Expect delicious. I'm glad you've joined me for today's lecture. Today I'm going to tell you how to age disgracefully. Tell naughty jokes. Dress outrageously.

Flirt outrageously. And take your collagen. So when I say take your collagen every day, I don't mean putting a little bit of cream on at night. I mean taking true collagen by our sponsors, ancient and brave. They did a trial where 60 women were involved and all of them noticed a difference. They had an improvement in their skin, elasticity, and a reduction in their fine lines and wrinkles. Win!

So what really, really sets Ancient and Brave apart isn't just their award-winning products. It is their absolute commitment to sustainability. They're a B-Corp and proud members of 1% for the planet. So that means that 1% of their profits, which, in fact, they've just up to 2% goes to helping environmental causes. So if you want to give them a try, head to ancient and brave. Dot earth slash planet. And if you want 20% off your order, use code, begin again. Need a vehicle that isn't afraid to make a splash?

That's the Volkswagen Tauce. Capable and confident, the Volkswagen Touse is fit for everyday life. Nimble in traffic, agile and tight spots, and still spacious enough for weekend getaways. While available 4-motion all-wheel drive gives confidence in rain and snow, The capable taos, you deserve more confidence. Visit vw.ca to learn more. Suvw, German engineered for all.

But this idea, like you were saying, the simple things, but how come we're so unfit? And I am going to start talking about ultra-processed food. We can't wait any longer. Because there was something like 55% of the general population, no, that 55% of their diet is ultra-processed food. Yeah, for one in five people, it's 80%. One in five people, 80%.

I mean, what is going on? I know. And yet here we are in the world of wellness and wearable tech and all of this. And it's still such a massive problem. I know, it is. And it's just this, I think it's, I mean, there's so many facets to it. They really are. But I think it is this, and there's not one simple answer or solution or kind of place to blame.

But I do think because we live in this clickbait society where everything is like hot to gather eyeballs really quickly, I think that has pushed wellness into the kind of slightly like weird, wacky and sometimes ridiculous fear because ultimately like a video saying the five things will kill you tomorrow is going to get more. Yes. So annoying. and it doesn't create this kind of huge, like, media-friendly clickbait conversation to be like, here are nine things you could do with a tin of lentils. But that is a shortcut to health in the way that, yeah, all these kind of gadgets and gizmos aren't. And it's not to knock you if they help you and you like them, that's fine, but it's removing people's need to buy them to feel like that's what wellness is, because that's not what wellness is. Wellness is trying to get your five

day. And I think the world, it's really interesting with ultra-processed food, because when I did change my diet, and I remember talking about it and being like, look, we didn't call it that then, when I was like, we need to eat more whole foods, less additives, preservatives, stabilises, flavourings. Yeah, I mean, you were, just thinking about it now, you were one of the first, earliest adopters of being anti-much. Much, like, flack for it. Did you? Oh my gosh, I was, like, absolutely torn apart for it. And I don't think it helping a young woman saying it. Like I don't think that, I don't think people necessarily loved that. But I really got like a quite a public lashing for it and kind of was a total. How old were you then?

21? So no, I would have probably been about 25 at that point. It's a few years. That's quite young. It was so young. It was really, really tough. I mean, it was really tough. And I think, but I would have now approach it so differently because I feel like I would approach it now. the confidence and an ability to say like, so sorry, this is like a misogynistic because every single person that's being criticised as a woman and the men who work in this industry have not been criticised once in any of this kind of media frenzy criticizing healthy eating, which was kind of a fun part of sort of 2016 to 2017. I've never spoken about weight loss.

This is all about health and wellness and, you know, lots of people do. And again, they're not included in this. It was very misogynistic, first of all. But second of all, it was also the sense of like, this is absurd. We are in a kind of national health crisis where our health is the worst it's ever been. Like we are in this, you know, headlines a few weeks ago, kind of pandemic of chronic diseases caused by ultra-processed foods. Our diets get worse by the year. Like, we've got to learn to love broccoli and lentils.

Like, we've got to change our diets. You don't have to never eat a Marsbah or a Snickers ever again, but you've got to base the majority of what you're, you've got to base the majority of what you. you eat now in proper food. And we have to be honest about that. And I know it's not easy to hear. And I know it's not easy to do. And when life feels tough and overwhelming, that's really difficult. And equally, there is a section of the British population where actually also healthy

food is too expensive. And that is absolutely wrong on every single level. So there's so many facets to it. But it is also wrong to demonise healthy food. Like this is so wrong. We can't do it. And I always felt if what I had done is like make double, triple chocolate cakes, no one would have ever criticised it, which I just find really odd.

But I just didn't have the confidence then to stand up and be like, hang on a sec, this is absurd. I mean, I want to go back to you starting to cook for yourself and using whole foods and beginning to like whole fruit and whole foods and going on that journey. How quickly did you notice a difference in your health? did you stop taking the medication? No. So you carried on with the medication better.

Exactly. Carried on completely with the medication. It took me just over two years to kind of slowly come off there. How did you know you could do that? I had just got to a point where my health had got better and better and better and better. And I did it with the doctors and, you know, nothing kind of like rash in that sense. And it was all very gradual and, you know, tapered off and everything. I did an exercise program that my doctor was doing as a study, which, you know, I still remember

it was like two minutes literally on a reclined rower to start with, and I would sleep for two hours afterwards. And over about six months, they built up to being able to do, I think it was like 20 minutes on the cross trainer, which was unbelievable for me. And I started to really focus on stress. They started to do meditation and mindfulness and breathwork, and I completely overhauled my diet. I went to a kind of fully, fully natural diet. And it was really slow at first. Like it wasn't like I woke up the next day and was like, I'm healed. It wasn't some kind of miracle in that sense.

It was over two or three years. And there would be like one step forwards, three steps backwards, four steps forward. You know, it was a dance. And it was not a linear trajectory in any shape or form. And my mum was such an amazing support throughout. And she used to always say, like, because I'd get really disheartened. I was like, I'm trying so hard. I am doing everything I can do.

But I'm back in. dead today. And she was like, I know, but your bad day today is so much better than your bad day was six months ago where you would be in bed for five days unable to do anything but like and stare at the ceiling. She was like, now you're kind of having a rest day. It's quite different. And she was so helpful with that kind of sense of perspective. But yeah, after about kind of two, two and a half years, I felt able to kind of live a normal life again, which was just absolutely extraordinary. I feel like community is the greatest gift that the internet has given us, you know, that if ever anybody feels different or alone, you can go and find your tribe

if you look, and that's what you have gifted other people. Yeah. But that sense of shared experience is no powerful. And like, I'm sure you felt that when, you know, because life does throw you really hard things like that is life and I think that sense of like but I'm not alone in it is so powerful and I certainly felt so alone and I think once I opened up and I remember writing down because my friend who helped me kind of get started with the whole thing she was like what you're doing is a bit weird isn't it like cooking this kind of thing it's a bit weird so it's good to say why you're doing it and so I wrote the about page and I was like I'm Ella I've been ill I'm going to see if like changing my lifestyle

and changing the way that I cook it helps my help. These are my experiments. If I can do it you can do it too essentially. And I wrote that whole thing and I you know what happened and my illness and it was so empowering. It was like I'm taking control of my narrative and my life and I had just felt that I had completely lost control of it

for the go so long and I think there is something so powerful about when you feel in the driver's seat even if life's going against you. It's the sense of like no I'm holding on to this, this is mine. I think I want to talk to you about your cafe. So how did that come about, the first one? And why did you, why did you start a cafe? It feels like somewhere to gather.

It was exactly. Yeah. So kind of fast forward a little bit. So the site had had lots of hits. There was clearly something there. And I wanted to write my, I wanted to write a book. So I think I then started to feel pretty evangelical, to be honest. Were you with Matthew at this point?

No, so that's about to happen. Okay, okay. It's all very exciting. I can't want. No, so I went out and I found some people, spoke to literary agents. I was like, I want to write this book, wrote this book, came out in January 2015. And that was the most one called. It's just called Deliciousiella. It's super simple. And the book kind of took off in a way that nobody was expecting it to. And it became this fastest selling debut book ever. It was Amazon's best selling book that year. And suddenly like, it was a big community online. But it was niche. where suddenly it was like picked up by all the press and the media and I was 23 and I was kind of doing all this, yeah, all these interviews everywhere and it was, I mean, I was such a deer in headlines. But I did an interview in The Times and Matthew, who's my now husband, a business partner, he read this interview and he had been working with a friend who had this farming business in Sierra Leone and various other parts of West Africa. I mean, this is so, so random. They had been really badly hit by Ebola and they were looking at different. things they could do. And he was like, well, we have so much produce. Maybe we could create a

snack. Maybe we could do it with Ella because his mom and my dad had worked together. We'd never met. We'd led these like parallel lives. That's so random. So random. It's just like one of those moments where like all these bizarre things line up. And so yeah, we'd live like 15 minutes away from each other. Our parents had worked together for a decade or so. But he's, I always say eight years, he says seven and a half years old than I am. So we hadn't ever met but kind of knew, had just had very kind of like very, very

similar lives. And so he said, okay, well, I'll see if I can get in touch with her. This could be super interesting to create a product together. So he emailed my dad. My dad put us in touch and he was like, he's interested in your work, but like Piaz, he's

super, super handsome. So like you should definitely meet him. Good old dad. Yeah, it's like really not what I was expecting in my life. And so when people were like, how'd you met? It's like, literally, it's an arranged marriage. So anyway, so we met and so there's a whole irony as we then ended up building essentially like a snacking company together, but we met to.

How long did it take for you to fancy? Okay. Well, no, immediately. But then after three days, I was like three times of meeting for work. I was like, and then the next day he asked me out. And so we've worked together. We'd never not work together, essentially. But after about weeks,

so we moved in together after a week. Wow. This is, my first book had come out. It was everywhere. It was kind of having this moment. I'd now met him. I had moved in with him. And so the speed at which my life had changed was absolutely enormous.

Mm. And how quickly did, I mean, did he go straight into working with you? Essentially, because I was working and I was running, I had the book. I had an app. I was doing cooking classes, supper clubs, lots of workshops. But I was then getting approached to do lots of things

and people saying, would you license the brand for food products? And I felt so strongly like, no. Because I felt, as we were saying, this, like really deep commitment to the community that had created, had kind of transformed my life in every sense. And I knew at this point,

like no one wanted to make food without additives and preservatives and ultra-processed food. And I was like, so I just don't trust that that would ever happen. And so the more opportunities came in, the more he also hated his job and was so bored and was one of those people that was like desperate to do their own thing. And so we, you know, we would just end up every evening talking about it and looking at it. And then I was like, what are we doing? Like, why don't you just like, quit your job?

Let's do this together. We're so different. We're so similar in one way and so different in the other. Like for me, it was always about the food and the community and that part of the and he is so sensible and brilliant and clever and kind of loves finance and operations and like the real crux that he built the business and if I built the brand. It was two very, very different things. And the kind of collective would never be possible without both sides.

So it was really, so yeah, so he quit his job. We started working together. I mean, can I just say this is kind of amazing because for a couple to get involved that deeply so quickly and then work together and then have two kids. The pressure between the two of you, but you have a very healthy respect and love for each other, right? Oh my gosh. I mean, I think it's been, I know it's not for everyone. People like, I'd kill my partner if I worked with it with them and I totally, I can, I can see that. But for us, it's like created this level of depth that's kind of just what we do. Like we're so together and probably frustrated,

Signally so does that. Are you nauseating? No, I just think we're such a team. Like we're such a kind of, yeah, we've sort of only ever done everything together. Yes. That I don't really know another way to be. Yes. But it was just so, you know, you don't get opportunities in life very often.

And it was so obvious. Like, Deliciousiello was having a moment. People had started to think about food and what was in our food. Yeah. And we weren't going to have that opportunity again. Like it was a kind of now or never moment. And so we started two things in tandem. Yeah.

One was, because it was never clear which way the business would go. One was food products because, as we talked about, I started turning over backs of packs when I changed my diet and was like, why isn't this flavored with food? Why is this flavored with flavoring? It's like, why are we using these products? There's got to be a different way to do it. So we started looking at retail. And then we wanted a space to bring community together. And so we also opened a cafe.

And we opened a tiny, tiny space near Edgeware Road in London. had 16 seats. Like it was absolutely tiny. And it was a way of really testing the water. The rent was very low. And it was a sense of like we can completely service the rent through the app and the cookbooks and other things we're doing. So if this doesn't work, we'll be okay. Like we can make it work until we can pass the lease on.

But we need to test the water. Like because moving a community from online to offline, like will people really buy goods and services or do they just really like reading the blog? two really different things. And it was important to us to kind of test the water and see, is us, yeah, well, people really come in, like, actually spend that hard and money with us in real life. So we opened it. This is the end of 2015 now.

We opened on the 12th of December. And it was this sense of, okay, let's test it out. It's before Christmas. No one cares about healthy food before Christmas. So we'll have a few weeks to kind of get up and running. We had a really lovely manager starting in January. She couldn't start till then. We were like,

problem. There won't be anyone here over Christmas. We're not even going to tell people it's open. Then after three days, we had like 100 yard queues for our 16 seats and this like beautiful brand experience was just like a sweaty scrum for sweet potatoes. But it proved the concept. Yes. In a, in a fantastic way. And it was so amazing. It was this sense of like, okay, this is something and like we should go all in. And what did that look like going all in? So then we started developing the food products and talking to Starbucks and Waitrose and Tescos and Sainsbury's and all the kind of first retailers that we had and started to find manufacturers and most manufacturers did not want to work with us. Yes, I mean that's such an interesting concept that they don't have the way of making the ingredients that need to go into your products. No, they were just like it's not efficient enough.

Yeah. It's not going to work a smoothie. It's not cost efficient enough. Like we just don't see the point. Like no one cares. I mean, that's terrible. No, honestly, it's... We don't see the point.

Essentially, because it's like, it's more expensive and it's more difficult to make things without emulsifiers, for example. So why bother? Like, it's cheaper and more efficient to use those ingredients. So, like, we don't want to work with you, essentially. And then we found this tiny, tiny place that did. Like, it was absolutely many, this amazing guy that owned it, super entrepreneurial. And he was like, I'll take a chance on you guys.

My daughter reads the blog. She loves it. I'll take a chance on her. So, and we then, we then, a year later, to bought that factory and make our products all there now. So it's a kind of all well, that ends well story, but they really took a chance on us. And we started manufacturing the products.

And, you know, it was this sense of, like a giant science experiment. You know, can you actually scale something that is genuinely natural and it is only kitchen cupboard ingredients? And to start with, again, like we were there and we were so passionate, like, this is so important. The food industry is so broken. Like, there's got to be a way of doing it differently. Like generally, people didn't really care.

They kind of, either they'd be like, what a waste of money to put that into it? Or, like, no point. Like, no one looks at back of pack. Like, it doesn't matter what's in it. But kind of little by little, we kept going and we kept going. And, you know, learning to make genuinely natural products meant a lot of trial and error, some big successes, some huge failures. But last year we were the fastest growing snack brand in the UK.

We sold 150 million products like we outsell the very large conglomerates. It's amazing and it's not being straightforward in any shape or form, but it was this sense of like there's got to be a better way of doing it. And I really believe there is. And I feel like the food industry should be held to account in that sense because it is possible to make products differently. It's just more expensive and it's more time consuming. Do you know, I feel like you're very good at kind of manifestos and I did love you had something written in your first cafe.

Yes. On a blackboard and it was there for everybody to see. It was kind of like. It kind of felt like a 10 commandments. I remember it exactly right. It was like right behind the counter. I had the first thing you see. Have you?

Yeah. Oh my gosh. Let me see it. I was just wondering. It's like don't eat food that your great grandmother didn't eat. Yeah. A sense of like back to real food again. Exactly.

So, the May philosophy. I love it. Okay. Oh my gosh. Okay. Number one, eat real food. I think that's very important. Two, enjoy every mouthful.

Yes. I really feel so strongly about this. Yes. Like food is joyful. We never find full about eating. No, and it's joyful and it's part of our kind of social fabric. It's such an important part of our life. in this sense that like healthy food needs to be the sad, miserable existence.

Or people will say like, what's your guilty pleasure? And it's like, no, no, no, no, no. If it's making you feel guilty, it's not a pleasure. Like sit down with your chocolate cake and enjoy it. Go out for margaritas and pizza with your gals and like enjoy it. Like, does it need, it's not about being perfect. It's just about having the right balance where you're rooted in like nourishing food, but then enjoy everything else.

If you feel guilty, what do a waste of time? Like, enjoy it. Food should be enjoyed. And if you stop for a moment, and really feel the food you're eating, it tastes so much better. And you're also going to do things that are good for you, like, chew a little bit longer or savour a flavour, eat slower. I was literally, food was a way for me to get back to, it was like a barrier to me playing.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. You know. And I've had to grow out of the habit of eating too quickly. Yeah, it's been terrible. Yeah. Okay, buy food with thought, eat it with care. focus mostly on plants.

That's always been really important to me in this sense of, you know, it's not all on a thing. Like I've never, I remember to start with, I didn't say it quite so eloquently. But like, it's not about becoming vegan or vegetarian

or plant-based. Like, it's just about eating more plants. Like, we just all need, you know, 30 plants a week. Okay, eat organic. Can I say something about that? Yeah. Because I think sometimes people hear 30 plants a week

and they're like, like, oh? Like, how? how on earth do you do that? But just to explain how you can do it in easy ways. Yeah. Okay, so eating 30 plants a week in a nutshell is really like just an easy way to think about looking after your gut health.

Yeah. You know, it's feeding your gut bugs, everything that they need for a delicious life. And you need that diversity of plants. And but it's so many things count like every different nut or seed count. So if you buy from boots or Honabar Barra or a supermarket, you know, one of the mixed bags of nuts and seeds. Yeah, and they have like six. Six or eight in there.

So that's six done. Done. Sprinkle up on salads, on soups, you know, whatever it is. Easy peasy. Same, you know, make some granola. You can get seven plant points with the random packs of things at the backs of your cupboard.

So easy. Every herb counts. So, you know, have pesto. You've got basil in there like you're winning. Yeah. Obviously your fruits and vegetables count. But don't forget, like garlic counts, chili counts in that.

And do. different colours of the same things. So like if you do a pepper, red, green, yellow, orange, you know, all the different colours of peppers, all of them are different. Coffee's giving you a point. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I know. Everyone loves to hear that. Dark chocolate. So when you start to kind of wait. Now, this is an issue. Right. How dark? Kind of 70-ish percent. Not like 90. Yeah. Is that okay? 70? Yeah. It's a good day. I thought it was like... No, you don't need night.

But again, this comes back to like enjoy it, right? Yes. Don't eat it all day. No. It's pretty intense. It's so intense. Yeah. So...

Thanks, Ella. I'm here to help. I'm really happy with that. So actually, and if you start making like, you know, a veggie stew or a bean chili or something like that, you'll find you can get 10. 12. Exactly. That would be four or five, depending how many are in it. Okay.

So actually, and then you've got... Onion, you've got garlic, you've got tomato in there, you've maybe got some chopped up spinach, you've got some various different herbs and spices. If you go different coloured tomatoes. Totally. You're suddenly at like 12 or 13 in a single meal. You get your mixed nuts and seeds. You sprinkle them on another meal.

Suddenly you can see how you get out to 30. Buy like, you know, berries, a mixed bag of berries, frozen bags. You get, you've probably got blackberries, strawberries, blueberries, etc. In there, again, like quite easy to do. I'm just going to quickly talk about this. Yes, quick wins. Because it came out last year. Yeah.

And this is full of really brilliant, very simple recipes. That's the thing about it. 100%. And quick and easy to make. Exactly. And full of all of these plants that we... Yeah, so there's eight weeks of meal. And really nice pictures.

Thank you. I feel it's really important. So pretty. With your eyes. Yes. Is that good. I mean, it's just so important. But what I also started to realize was the mental load for people was so big. So it wasn't necessarily

that you didn't have 20 minutes to make supper. Yes. But that when you've been making decisions all day and you're so overwhelmed and addressed, the like mental load of doing it is so big. So I've done eight weeks of meal plans, basically focused on dinners. It's not like every single thing you're going to eat over that eight weeks. But then you've got your shopping list, you've got all your suppers for the week mapped out. So then you get home from work and you're like, right, I'm going to make this super easy supper. I have everything that I need in the fridge. It's going to take me 15 minutes. I'm ready to go because as I said,

it's not necessarily, you don't have 20 minutes to do an easy tray bake or something like that. It's just the like mental load at the end of the third. It's like one more decision, which is a bit much. You are so right. People are just so tired, aren't they? Yeah, and it's that sense of like,

just tell me what to do. Yeah, you've got us covered. You got it covered. Thanks. Which I think really helps. And then the other thing that I did, which has been a win for me, is I love batch cooking.

I just find it really helps when you then get home from a long day and you've got everything sorted and ready to go. But if you've got two ways to use it, I used to find I'd have like reheat the leftovers and my family would be like, we had this the other day. Oh, yes. And so with the leftovers, I've given you a different way to use them. So it will feel like genuinely different meals.

You turn like a stew into a kind of minstroni type thing or you've got different ingredients all very easy. You have, you know, or you're doing like a pulled-ooboom, ragu one day stud, you pass her, and then next day you're going to pop it in tortillas. And so all you've really done is, like, warmed up some tortillas. Repurposed. But you're repurposing it, but in a way that feels like a genuinely different meal. That's another win.

That's a quick win. What, a quick win? Like the name of this book coming out. Do you know what? For me, it's all like that empowerment. We need those quick wins. Like, it needs to be like, yes, I've done it. This feels great.

Yes. I mean, I just love the plan. I just think that's so good. I think it's that mental load, as I said, for people. It's not that we don't have 20 minutes. It's just that at the end of the day, toast feels like an easier answer. Yes, I know. That's terrible.

Yeah. Please can I, actually, can I just say toast isn't terrible? Toast is not terrible. But you just want to kind of add in something that is. 100%. Toast is not actually, I think toast is a brilliant thing. Because what you pop on top of it means actually a quick win. Yeah.

But ultimately, like plain toast every day is not going to give you that diversity. No. But if what you do is, you do is, you. make like one of my favorite recipes is the fancy beans on toast and you literally just saute loads of garlic with chili flakes, cherry tomatoes. Once that's soft, you stir in some butter beans, a bit of lemon, bit of yogurt, stir it all up, lots of salt and pepper, pop that on your toast. So yummy. Ten minutes. All you've done is chop some tomatoes. Like it's so easy. One pan to wash up. You know, it's so straightforward. But you've got, and you've had a nourishing meal with no effort

whatsoever. Yeah, great. Or I'll do some, like, quick whipped greens. I'll literally just get, like, my frozen peas and edamar, and you'll mix them up again with, like, garlic and lemon. It's a really nice dip. Frozen. You just said frozen peas.

I know that frozen, for most of us, is a very easy thing to have in the freezer. It is good, isn't it? Frozen is amazing. Yeah. Such a misconception, which lots of other countries don't have, like a lot of Europe sees frozen in a much more positive light. We seem to see frozen in a negative light. Frozen is amazing because often you have mourned.

nutrition in there because things are frozen immediately. So you kind of lock in all the nutrition of the fresh fruit badge. Pop in your freezer, but it also means it's so sad. Like you get home, you're like, ooh, what have I got to cook? And you're like, oh, great, I've got X, Y and Z in a freezer ready for action. So good. Right. Continue. Okay. The next one, do you know what? The next one I would actually say is the only one I would sort of slightly renege on, which was eat organic when possible. I think that... Well, this is interesting. Yeah. Okay, because I've just had cancer and I feel like, oh, I'm going to go organic everything. Am I, is that silly?

It's not silly. It's just there's not huge evidence. Okay. To say that it's necessarily... So I shouldn't get up tight about it. No, and look, I think there's, you know, if you can and it's available, like great, but it's not a prerequisite. So I think I would actually...

And for lots of people, it is a bit more expensive. It's a lot more expensive. Yeah, so I think... A lot more expensive. It would be a big ask. I would scrap it. Okay, scrap that. Because I think that if you feel you've got to do all of that,

that comes back to making it just be like, it's not going to happen. So I would scrap that one. Okay. The next one I think is really important is don't waste, share or keep for later. Wait, I was interested in that. Share, what did you mean by that? Like, give it to, you know, I'm obsessed with making bread at the moment. And it's like, give it to a neighbour, give it to a friend.

Like, you've got too much of something. Oh, I see. Don't waste. And then it says share, but I was reading it. it like don't waste, share, don't share. Like, there's that point. Like, if you more stuff than you need, like, give it away. Give it away.

That's lovely. Yeah, or keep it for later. Leftovers. And nice, your community, people will love you. Give them some food. Great. Next one I would say is absolutely essential. Find balance, don't diet.

I think that's probably like one of the most important ones. I got to my perfect weight when I stopped dieting. Yeah, I bet you did. Isn't that interesting? I mean, ultimately diets don't work. And they don't work because they kind of take over alive and they're too restrictive and ultimately life gets in the way and then you fall off the bandwagon and you feel you have no willpower. Yeah.

Whereas if what you're saying is like, I'm just going to look after myself. Yeah. You know, I'm just going to try and cook a little bit more. I'm going to try and add in more fruit and veg when I can. I'm going to get that sprinkling of mixed nuts and seeds in my life. Like I'm just going to do little things. I'm going to try and go for a walk on my lunch break. I'm going to try and, you know, do something that I know manages my stress.

Like these little things are brilliant in terms of long-term health. Whereas I think when you focus on like a diet, it's just, it's too restrictive. It just doesn't last. You've got to have flexibility in your life. And that will look different to all of us. But you've got to find the flexibility that works for you. I think it's quite interesting that, you know, it's all about trying to just find something that works, like something that can, you can fit into your life.

That's so important. I think it's got to fit into your life. And I guess... And you were talking about the wins earlier. Yeah. You've got to feel great. And maybe the win is like, I'm going to get up 15 minutes before the rest of my house. And I'm going to do five minutes of something that makes me feel really calm.

I'm going to sit and drink a cup of tea or coffee in silence and just have a moment apiece. That's a great win. Like, that's so good for you. It doesn't need, you don't need to get up two hours beforehand. But it's just these little, yeah, it is your quick wins and what you can fit into your life in a reasonable manner. manageable way. I like the way that you talk about wellness, not just being about food and looking good. I just don't think it lasts. Like ultimately, like, that's not, right, maybe you're getting married and you want to, like, look your best and feel your best on your wedding day. Fine. For most people,

on a day-to-day basis, like, I just don't think it's a motivation, enough of a motivation to shift your life. Whereas I think what's much more motivating is, like, I want to live as long as I can. Like, I want the best health span I can have where I still feel great at my 70s and my 80s and I can play with my grandchildren. Like it's about these, I want more energy so I can get more from my day. Like I want to improve my like general mood. You know, that motivation will wake up in the morning. Like these, because these have real world repercussions. It's like so I have a better relationship so I'm like more present with my kids. Like I think for most of us that why means so much more than like so I can fit a different pair of jeans. I just don't think that's motivating enough as a long term. pillar. I loved you just saying 15 minutes earlier. I mean, what's interesting is that sometimes

I will do that for exercise, but I would never do it for peace. Yeah. And actually, you've inspired me there because I think having 15, 20 minutes on my own in silence would actually be kind of magical. I'd never even, I'd never even thought about that. I always feel like I have to just be on, on, on, all the time, you know, what am I going to do with this? bare piece of 10 minutes that I've got, I've got to go do something. And actually, when do I ever sit and do nothing? Exactly. And I just, I'm not saying like, quit life, but I just think there's something in stress, you know, I think if you look at the four pillars of health, it's diet and nutrition, it's exercise movement, it's sleep and it's stress management. And I think stress management

is that it's much less tangible than the others. It's like, right, I'm going to run, go on a walk, do a YouTube, whatever it is, exercise class, diet, right, I'm going to make a veggie, staff, right tonight, easy, whatever, you know, sleep. Okay, I'll go to bed a bit earlier. Stress management, I think we all get to and we're like, hmm, it's stressful. But what's interesting about stress, and I'm really looking at that at the moment, is that I have always perceived stress as being one of my superpowers, that I enjoy feeling that adrenaline

and I feel like it drives me to get more in my day. And actually now I'm realizing that if I take moments to try and be calm or do nothing throughout the day, which is really hard, my productive moments are better. Yeah, but it's so difficult to do. but they like really, really recognize that. You know, I feel like we should have another, well, actually, why don't we have another one of these from your manifesto?

So we did find balance, don't diet. It's so important. Eat a rainbow every day. I like that as well. Just as a simple, we don't need rules and you don't need to be on this diet or that diet. But I think having like gentle principles or like guidelines is helpful. And I think if you were thinking about gentle guidelines, It is this sense of like eat real food for the most part,

as in like proper whole food as opposed to ultra-processed food. Try and get your rainbow in in terms of like loads different colourful fruits and veg and plants because that will, you know, naturally help get your 30 a week and feed your gut microbiome and all the rest of it. It doesn't have to be kind of strict, but I think getting a sense like, I'm just going to eat a few more plants today. Easy. It might be banana and your porridge.

Can I ask you about fruit? Yeah. So for so many people, sugar is the enemy. but fruit, whole fruit, it's not the enemy because actually we do need some, our brain needs sugar. It does. And I think, I think for me, this is part of the general frustration with the world of health and wellness, which is like, as we said,

one in five of us managed to get our five a day. Yeah. And like four percent, four percent of Brits eat enough fiber. Four percent, ninety-six percent of us don't eat enough fiber. And fibre is like the most essential thing for our gut health, which is so critical to our collective health. And so, you know, I just don't think that making people feel nervous of anything kind of whole food related helps. Because ultimately, like, we desperately need those foundations. If after that you want to get more personal, more prescriptive, like, go for it.

But as a general rule, I feel like we just all need to eat more fruits and vegetables. more fiber, more plants, more whole brains, etc. So I think there has to be kind of a simplicity of message. Yes. With that, then add on. Keep it simple. Like if you want to take yourself down a specific route, like crack on. But I think for a kind of collective, it's we've got to keep it simple.

Like eat mostly real food, cook at home as much as you can, eat lots more plants. Easy. Not easy to do, but it easier to be general principle. I think the idea, keep it simple. Keep it simple. Just don't overthink it. Don't overstress yourself. No.

And when it comes to like what to cook, like ultimately just anything you cook at home is going to be one of the healthier things you can do. Nothing matter what it is. I love your recipe where you say in a bolognese put lentils in. Yeah. Because I mean, I don't know anybody that doesn't like a bolognaise. Exactly. And you can just do 80% meat, 20% lentils. But you don't know the lentils are there.

No, it's just another win or like, you know, chop up a leak and add it in as well. Like, you know, just these little wins, as we said, like it's not about got to change everything. It must be a vegetarian bolognese. Like you can make a delicious veggie, like lentil-based or mushroom-based bolognais. But if your family don't want to do that,

what about just like bringing some lentils into it? It doesn't need to be the whole thing. That is still such a win. Like, that's an extra boost of fibre. Brilliant. Where are we at? Where are we at now? We are at number nine, so we're nearly that.

Okay. Okay, I'll give you the last two together. Don't eat anything your great-grandmother wouldn't recognize as food. I think probably don't eat is a bit strong as opposed to like, don't eat too much, you know, because it's not... I love that because literally my great-grandmother, when you think about going around a supermarket, I grew up with my grandma. Yeah. And until I would say the mid-70s, all I got was just the best home-cooked food you'll ever eat in your life. And then I started getting tinned food because it was just so exciting having something that you didn't have.

The novelty. The novelty of it. And we just talked about sugar, right? Like people used to make puddings all the time. Yeah. Just I think it's that sense of like reduce ultra-processed food, cook from scratch more. Yeah. And number 10, great place to end.

Listen to your body. You always know best. And I think that's, I think that is really important because ultimately, as we said, like, there is no one size fits all. There's no like, this is what wellness is. or one simple definition. Like it's got to work in your life. And, you know, your life changes. Like, at one point, you might have a bit more time

to commit to going to the gym or cooking for more or whatever it is. And other times, you won't. You'll have hardly any time at all. And so it's like, okay, you know, let it up and flow. Like, only you know what will work for you. But how do you, because you say listen to your body, but I think we're getting messages all the time

from our conscience, from our body. but largely I have spent most of my life ignoring them. How do you hear them and what do they sound like? It is hard and I do agree with that and again like everyone's life is so busy. I think it's just like understanding what feels good in the most simple terms for me. Like what's even possible for me? You know, watching this person do this on the internet. I can't do that.

Fine, don't do that. Yeah. Do something that suits you and your lifestyle and that feels manageable and plausible. And then you're going to feel that sense of empowerment. Like I did it. I did this thing for my health. This is great. I feel positive about it.

Makes you feel good, right? Exactly. And that's a really lovely cycle to be in. I think we just set ourselves up for failure so often, particularly at the beginning of the year. Yeah. I'm going to do all these big grand things. And life will get in the way.

Yeah. And you don't want to feel like a failure in January. No. It's going to set you up for a bad year. No, I completely agree. Yeah. The thing about that, that feels good. Yeah.

As opposed to just like little. you go. Thank you. As opposed to just like little, little things, little shifts. Be gentle on yourself. We're pretty rough on ourselves, I think, as a general role. Like, we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to, like, do things perfectly. And like, there is no perfect way to do anything in life.

Can we quickly, before we end, I do want to just mention your podcast because your podcast is another really great way of accessing you. Yeah. And you do it with your great mate. Yeah. Rianan is an amazing nutritionist. And it's so fun. I think what we started to see was just this, like, the noise of the world of wellness was just too much.

And I think as we were saying, like, people just want to know, like, what does this mean for me? Like, what should I be doing? Like, all these headlines, like, does this matter? I'm terrified about this now that I've read about it. So do we just go through and like, this is what everyone's talking about in wellness? This is what matters. This is what doesn't. Like, you know, these are the easy wins in your life.

and like these are the trends you can completely ignore and just try and bring some like personal and fun and simple, actionable kind of magic to it as opposed to the like level of overwhelm. I think you start to feel sometimes when you engage in this world and you think do I have to buy all of these things and do all of these things. And also it's quite contradictory often to each other.

Yeah. Just trying to find that like easy middle ground if you just want to make small changes that feel really manageable. And you're on Instagram, aren't you? On Instagram as well, yeah. And the podcast is called the, wellness scoop. Yes, wellness scoop.

Ella, it's been a real pleasure. Thank you. I've loved it. I've loved it. I've just learned so much. I think it's the little things that you add in that make a difference. I think that's super helpful. The recipes in quick wins, I know I'm not trying to do a hard sell, I promise you, but it is a really, really, really good book.

Yeah, if you want to eat more, if you're me, if you're someone like me, and you feel like you haven't got time and you don't know how to do it. You make it very easy for us. So thank you. Well, thank you. But one of my big revelations was, I'm going to get up 15 minutes earlier.

Just try it. And I'm going to sit in silence. Yeah, I find it completely life-changing. Like, it doesn't happen every day because often the kids will get in the bed in the middle of the night and all the rest of it, which is so yummy. Can I just say something else to you?

Yeah. Enjoy that. I know. You know, like mine don't do it anymore except from Christmas Day. Yeah. And I really miss it. Yeah, I can see that completely.

Like it's... I love you. Oh, that was amazing. That was so nice. Thank you so much. Thank you.