Begin Again with Davina McCall - DJ Fat Tony: Surviving My Darkest Years & What Recovery Really Looks Like

Episode Date: March 12, 2026

No matter how far you fall, it’s never too late to rebuild your life… In this episode of Begin Again, DJ Fat Tony sits down for a raw and deeply honest conversation about survival, healing, and what recovery really looks like. Tony opens up about a childhood shaped by trauma, the chaotic world of London’s club scene, and the years he spent chasing escape in nightlife, fame, and excess. From discovering the dancefloor as a teenager to building a career surrounded by music, fashion, and iconic figures, Tony reflects on the highs that defined an era and the personal battles happening behind the scenes. With remarkable candour, he shares how unresolved pain, loss, and self-destruction eventually forced him to confront the life he was living. What follows is a powerful story of reckoning, resilience, and the long road to rebuilding a life with honesty and self-respect. This conversation is not just about the past, it’s about the courage it takes to change, the truth about recovery, and the possibility of beginning again no matter how far you’ve fallen. Join DJ Fat Tony as he reflects on the moments that nearly broke him, the lessons that saved him, and why transformation is always possible. 🌟 Like, comment, and subscribe for more powerful conversations about resilience, healing, and reinvention. Tap the bell to stay connected with new episodes of Begin Again. Follow us here:📸 www.instagram.com/beginagain🎥 https://www.tiktok.com/@beginagainpod  (00:00) Intro (01:29) Special Letter From His Therapist & Co-Author, Tara (11:07) Tony on Childhood Trauma and Relationship With His Father (21:34) Airbnb Ad (22:40) Bloom & Wild Ad (23:35) Finding Himself in the Club Scene (30:33) His Close Friendship With Boy George (33:16) Tony's Sex, Alcohol, and Drug Addictions (38:58) DJ Career and Breaking Into Music (50:10) Tony's Mother’s Hospitalisation and Rock Bottom (58:35) HIV Diagnosis (01:00:54) The Path to Recovery (01:03:48) The Steps of Sobriety and Supporting Others (01:05:33) Arrest and Imprisonment (01:11:30) Meeting His Love, Stavros, and Finding Himself (01:22:12) Tony's New Book, Recover Me Sponsored by: Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.co.uk/Host Bloom & Wild - use code DAVINA for 15% off at https://www.bloomandwild.com/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=begin_again Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I was 14. I wanted to be friends with Boy George. I remember saying, who does your hair? They're not dreadlocks, they're locked. To someone who's just about to become one of the biggest stars on the planet, because I'd rather you hate me than like me. All I knew was negative attention,

because I never ever wanted anyone to know the real me. You very nearly lost it all. I did lose it all. At what point did you find the club scene? I was dating the manager, and I would say, people leave and they don't like the music. He said, well, if you think you can do, Bell, why didn't you do it?

I was like, you know what, I will. And then the next minute I'm playing at Paladin in New York. I was so busy being caught up with the tonysms of life. I didn't know how to love myself. Over the years of lots of alcohol and certain drugs, I was in prison for about three months. My mum had had cancer at that point in time on top of that stuff. My house was being bugged.

My ex-partner had basically poor recording devices in every room in my house. When did it tip over the edge? My mum come over and found me unconscious and rushed me to hospital. And then that was the day that I was diagnosed. With HIV? Yeah, I was dying.

The journey's been made a lot easier because of people like yourself in my life. Stavvy. It came into my life. It makes me love myself. I'm going to read you something. It's not your will. No, no, it's not that. My head's just did all then?

That shut you out, didn't it? Yeah, didn't you? Just. Tony? Yes. Yay! Back together again. I know, right?

It's you and me. You know what? I used to watch this. I watched this podcast and the trailer's for it every time. And I think, she's a bitch. She's not had me on at all. You know what I mean? All the years I've known her and she's got these like people she's met once at dinner.

And that's it. Do you know what I mean? You're here. Yeah, I'm never. Hallelujah. You're good. I mean, you're my greatest like begin again, again, again, again. again again again ever um and yeah i'm good and i just want to start with something that i would normally

end the podcast with um because usually at the end i do a little like don't stop crying i can see your eyes i know i'm i'm fine i'm fine i usually at the end i do a little thing where i get something out for the person as a gift and i go here's a little something for you but actually i want to start um i'm going to start with this for you and i'm going to read you something. Oh. And this is a little message. Oh, it's not your will? No, it's not my... It's not my well. I'm not, everything's getting left to me.

No, no, it's not that. I was just wondering, would it be all right if you just subscribed? Thanks. Go on. It's from Tara. Oh, God. Wow. Okay, all my heads just stood on end. Go on. That shut you out, didn't it? Yeah, didn't you? Just.

Okay, you ready? Yeah, I'm ready. Okay, Tony. Tara here. Strap in because I'm about to expose you. When you first walked into my office, all six foot one, and a lot of you, full of bravado, ego and defence, and let's not forget the rage, I got the whole event, big presence, big personality,

and that very particular kind of armour people build, when life has taught them that being seen isn't always safe. But despite your best efforts, that isn't who I saw. Thankfully, you trusted me to let me walk alongside your process and help you heal the wounds that kept you stuck for so long. For those who haven't had the very great privilege of knowing you, because to truly know you is to love you. It's not because your power.

you're not, but because you're perfectly imperfect and real. You're funny, you're maddening, you're luminous, and you have a heart that's bigger than your performance. Here's what, in my humble opinion, people ought to know about you, what most people don't see because you don't broadcast it, is how incredibly kind and generous you are. The work you do in the shadows for other people, the checking. in, the showing up. Not for applause, but because you can't help but care.

You've redefined masculinity. Masculinity isn't about control. It's about capacity. I love that. It's amazing, isn't it? It's being able to feel something without having to perform, dominate, disappear or numb.

And the fact of the matter is, we need more men like you, Tony. men who stop performing strength and start practicing it. Men who can tell the truth, make repair and stay present when it would be easier to disappear. Tony, it's been an honour and a privilege to bear witness to your history and to the impact of your trauma. Not the details, that's not for here,

but what you've done with it, how you've stopped using it as fuel for self-destruction and started turning it into something that protects life, not harms it. This is very much your book. Your story to tell, your lived experience. My role was simply to hold a light up to what was happening underneath. The psychology, the nervous system, the recovery moves, so that readers can hopefully recognise themselves and not feel so alone.

And the best bit, there's a real joie de vivre in your story. Not chaos dressed up as fun, actual joy. The kind you can wake up with and still respect yourself. So yes, Tony exposed, six foot one and a lot, and quietly, one of the kindest men I know. I hope you're proud of the man you've become. I am extremely proud of the work you've done and of knowing you, Tara. Oh, that's beautiful. I know, right.

I last day, oh. She's got such a way with words. What she showed to me was she exposed me. for who I was and what I could be, which is a difference because I knew who I was deep down to a certain level of, you know, I knew what I was running from and what I was hiding from, but I had a lifetime of learned behavior. Yes. But when I went to see her, she exposed me for the person I could become.

Right. And that was kind of like the, that was the bit where I thought, oh no, I don't want to see this woman again. Why? Because I was so scared of that change. You know, it's like, you know, it's like renting a house all your life. And then suddenly you get the chance to buy it and you think, oh my God, I can't. That's a lot of money. Oh, no, I'll carry on renting and throwing my money.

You know, that kind of thing. And because it's about change and it's about moving forward. And I love to move forward. I'm forever moving forward. But it has to be at my pace. And my pace wasn't always, sometimes my pace would take an hour journey seven years. Do you know what I mean? Because that's what it does.

Sometimes, as I used to always say, you get there when you get there. But that's not always the case. Why did you go and see Tara? Like at that time of your life? Like what needed changing? I was 15 years sober. Completely insane. I was working meetings and other people's problems.

but not my own. I wasn't engaged within a program of self-love. It was everybody else's love because I didn't know how to love myself. I was at that point where, yeah, again, in recovery, everything had gone and pear-shaped. My relationship, I was in the most awfulest, trauma-filled, chaotic part of my life I'd ever been in.

And I was sober. I didn't have the tools to deal with that. I wanted everyone to get to the point where everyone was like, oh, well done, you're the face of recovery, you're this and you're that. And I was doing everyone else's recovery for them. I was the one that everyone called whenever there was a problem with one of their friends or their sons or the... Well, I just...

Yeah, no, but that's fine. I did that. I'm in a place that I can capacitate that now, whereas before I wasn't. And I would... It would be a really, really good way for me, not to look at myself. And I got to the point where all hell was breaking loose. I'd just coming out of a relationship.

I'd just finished writing. I don't take requests. I felt that everything I'd put in that book I'd dealt with. I'd never dealt with any of it. I plow. I plow through life. Like literally, like this is me and every problem goes to the side. So therefore it's dealt with.

No. And what happens is it just builds up. And then suddenly there's an avalanche on top of you. drown within that drama. And I'd had a lifetime of drama and it all come to a head. And I was just coming out of that relationship, like pure chaos, scared about the future because, oh my God, I've exposed myself in that book, everything, warts and all.

And I just thought, I can't do this anymore. So I went to Tatar with really open arms and open eyes. and not so much open ears at that point in time that came later and what I was what the change was this woman would sit there and she wasn't one of those counsellors

that would be like let you talk and then be like okay see you next week she'd be like why are you doing that she would challenge me on everything and I'd be like and then she'd get me and be like leaving there thinking I'm paying this bitch

you know what I mean to terrorise me you'll be like what do you know No, because it's so nice for me because I know her a bit. I just, she's so perfect for you. She's so perfect because she's so perfect because she sees. She sees everything. And I learned that and I learned a very lot of things from.

How long did you see her for? Oh, until it was enough. I got to the point where I can't do with her anymore. As soon as she started, reaching the parts that was uncomfortable, I was like, I'm out of it. And then two weeks later, I'd be like back again. And then we went into lockdown. And I was like, I'm not doing Tara on Zoom,

which is a really good excuse not to see Tara. Right. Because I knew however uncomfortable it was, there was something far more uncomfortable out there. Because what happened was I wrote the, in the first book, The Don't Take Request, I got to a chapter about abuse, And just very quickly to explain to everybody, don't take request was your autobiography.

It was like your whole story. It was my life story. Yeah, it was very much a life story. And, you know, I kept putting off chapters that I really didn't want to talk about. And every day, Mikey would say, should we do this today? Oh, you know, let's do that.

I'm feeling really good today. Let's do that another day. And it got to the point when Mike said, we really need to do this chapter. and it was the abuse chapter about the guy that abused me when I was like 10 for four years. It wasn't like a one-off abuse thing it went on for four years.

And I really thought, because I'd never spoke about it at that point in time and I hadn't dealt, I felt I'd dealt with it because it didn't no longer have a holdover me or didn't make me feel less than, beyond anything. I had never looked at it, never dealt with it,

spoke about it twice in my life. but you know can I go back to that very quickly to just talk about it because you know what's we're a similar age and like for us I feel like our childhoods

were spent literally ducking abuse non-stop I mean sexual abuse but when I read I didn't realise but when I read about you at 10 years old

I mean, four years at 10, that is really too much to even bear thinking about. Well, he stole my youth. He stole my magic years. You know, I had no room to grow. I was still that 10-year-old that was vulnerable, but in my head, I wasn't vulnerable. I thought I could handle every situation. You know, I had a Rolex by the time I was 14. Where's that Rolex?

You know, what I didn't have was the right time. See what I mean? I had a brand new watch, but I couldn't tell you the time. It was because it was disjointed. And I just think... And you built an armour, like of self-protection, right? I became fat. I put on so much weight.

I built this world around me that no one could ever come into. because no one, I never wanted anyone to find me attractive. I never wanted anyone to, to approach me in that way, because I never trusted anyone. I never trusted anyone. And then therefore that went on to hating my own father, it went on to, because why isn't he helping? All of these different factors that came into play.

A son and his father's relationship is really important. But you had a particularly, tough time growing up, I think, really watching your dad. Your dad was a very hard man, strict, hard. Yeah. He hurt your mum. Yeah, every time he drank scotch whiskey every weekend. They'd go out on Friday night to the pub of Saturday.

And it always ended the same way with my mum at the bottom of the stairs or my mum going off in an ambulance. You know, which I always blamed him for. But, you know, it was definitely a two-way street in that sense. deserves to be here or no one deserves to be in a volatile abusive relationship. But as you, and you, and when you're 10 years old and that's going on and you've got this other drama going on. Yes.

You start, you start to blame. I mean, you would have had a sense that you were gay at 10. Oh, I sense. Han, I've always been gay. Yeah. There was that, you know, I remember my mum once saying to me, oh, we always knew you were gay. the doctor, the doctor diagnosed you when you were two. I was like, fucking diagnosed me.

Well, it's not chicken pox. Do you know what I mean? But it was funny because I, you know, and I actually remember the conversation because my doctor used to smoke a pipe. I mean, fucking mad, right? Yeah, sitting there. So funny.

Genius. Right? And my mum was like, it's going on about that. And I was just like, you know, I've always been out. Always. I've always been who I am. There's never a point where. You didn't have to cut.

You didn't have to come out to your family? No, I didn't. No. But did you rebuild your relationship with your dad? Oh, my God. Because you didn't die until you were 42. Well, you know, I ignored. I really, when my addiction was kind of at the worst place, but my dad, I remember one day I lived in their old house in Battersea.

Literally in 2002, I'd been diagnosed with HIV. And I was living in their house And I remember my dad coming over And by this point my addiction was so spiraled out Gone beyond everything You know, I'd had it, I'd moved to Ketamin dealer Into one room I'd moved to Coke dealer into the other

Like, you know, primarily it was a crack house But you know, it wasn't, you know what I mean? In my eyes, it was my house It's like convenience store, right? So anyway, You know what it's like. We moved these situations in. And my dad came over, and they were selling the house from underneath me and wanted me out.

And I was like, why are you doing this? And my dad was like, I'm taking the telly, I'm doing this, I'm doing that. And I was like, why? He said, you deserve everything you've got. And straight away, I went to that place of, oh, my God, you think I deserve to have HIV. And went to that place because there have been years and years and years of me looking for experience. excuses to hate on him because of what he did to my mum. I didn't know, right?

So we can jump forward 30 years, right? And then I had the situation happen where I was placed down at my mum and dad's house in Dungeoness. Have you ever been to Dungeoness in winter? Oh, I still think it's beautiful. Oh, it's the most stunning place on earth. It's so beautiful. But not when you're on tag and you're sitting in your mum and dad's living room. Do you know what I mean?

At 41, you know. freezing cold and the only thing you got to do is walk dogs, which is great, the jobs don't get me through, they got me through. But, you know, the thing was, I never ever realized and never ever took the time or wanted to, to know that he was 30 years sober. And, you know... Did he go to meetings?

Mm-hmm. I didn't ask. Wow. 30 years sober. Wow. Because it was the whiskey that made him one. Yeah, they made him that person. Yeah.

That chemical imbalance. And you know what? I was so busy being caught up in, within the toniisms of life. And I, you know, at that point in time, I was two years sober myself. And I kind of was like, you wouldn't understand. He went, what wouldn't I understand?

And I was like, what it's like to be in recovery? And he was like, recovery from what? And I was like, I had this conversation with him. And he went, I haven't had a drink for 30 years for your information. And I was like, what? Do you know what? I mean, I just never wanted to. to go there. It wasn't like, oh, I didn't know. I didn't want to know. It was far easier for me

to hate on him for everything that I was. Do you know what I mean? And it was easier to you, yeah, the reason I'm like this is because of that and you don't know what it's like. And then when I thought about it and I kind of thought, I did tell people he died six times. Do you know what I mean? Just like they would feel sorry for me because I put myself into that place of victim, that triangle, that drama triangle that we put ourselves on. I was the victim, the persecutor. I was all of those on every side of that triangle. And for me, that was the turning point.

I was like, wow, I meant to be. You know when you suddenly have this. And that was in your 40s? Yes. And you had this epiphany and you think, whatever is going on in my life right now, which was probably the worst time of my life, something really magical came out of it.

I got to know my dad. Whatever was going on. There was nowhere on earth I would have ever been in that situation sitting in the living room with a tag on my ankle but like being in that situation in recovery and just thinking wow and then I got to know my father I got to know him and then he passed away in front of me and I was there when he passed very soon wasn't it after yeah he saw me go to court win this court case and he saw me get clean he saw me stay clean but I remember when I went to see him when I first got there and I turned up with my bags hi uh I'm almost

bail at your house. You know, I remember him saying to me, I said to him, I really want to apologise to you for everything that I've done. You said that. Yeah, trying to make amends, you know, even on step two or whatever I was like. You know what it's like. Well, we want to change the world. I might become, I might become a psychiatrist. Anyway, yeah, that one. And I remember sitting there and I said, I'm really sorry for you're going to have done this. What are you apologising for? I said, just for being me and just like being the addicts and everything. He was like, can I tell you something? I said, yeah, go on.

He looked to me and he went, why don't you do me a favour and fuck off and come back when you're six years sober and when you know what you're apologising for? And of course, I was like, well, that's ungrateful. And that kind of just spiraled me out. But you know what? It's so bizarre because six years later, right? I literally got to this point in my life where I had asked for help again because my behaviours had gone so out of control. That was the moment where I literally surrendered to the fact that my life needed to change.

This episode is brought to you by Airbnb. Now, I don't know if you remember, but I told you about my friend Kat, who was heading off to Thailand with her partner to celebrate their 10-year anniversary. And she just got back last week. They spent a day exploring the markets. They went to Bangkok. And the real highlight for Kat, she said, was when they visited this ethical animal sanctuary in Chiang Mai.

I mean, can I just tell you something? I've actually never been to Thailand. I'm so jealous. But the reason I'm telling you all of this is before Kat went away, she found a local co-host through Airbnb's co-host network. And they helped her host her home and manage all the kind of admin-y bits. like welcoming guests and responding to messages. And for Kat, that meant that she could just switch off

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or the day they're feeling a bit wobbly about becoming an empty nester? That's basically me right now. These are actually the days when showing up really means the most. And when you want to show up but you can't physically be there, sending something that says, I'm thinking about you today, really does go a long way. Our sponsor Bloom and Wild delivers gorgeous blooms like this one. All their flowers are sent in bud, so they arrive really fresh.

You can choose from a bouquet that can go through their letterbox or a hand-tied bouquet like this one. And if flowers aren't quite right, they've also got loads of gifts and hampers too. Letterbox brownies. So whoever deserves a gift care wildly with Bloom and Wilde. And I've got a code people, Devina for 15% off your next gift. I wondered what at what point did you find the club scene and drugs? Like how old were you when that all started? So the first club I ever went to was the embassy.

And I was dating without getting in prison. I was dating the manager. He's dead anyway now so we can talk about it. But he was the manager and I met him at a bus stop. And how old were you? I was 14. Fuck. You know, but 14.

14 going on 21. Vulnerable. Yeah, well, no. By this point, I wasn't. Yeah, but you weren't, but you were. Yeah, of course I was. But to me, I was the game changer. I was a game player.

No one ever's going to treat me like that again. I was the most, yeah, everything that I, I, I, you'd already built a shell. 100%. I'd kind of had armour. I had layers and layers of armour on them. That no one could, could, thingy, I was in control. Yeah.

I could manipulate. men I could manipulate. Anyway, I met Roy, his name was. I met him at a bus stop. So romantic. Yeah, totally. And then he said, oh, come and meet me from work if you want. And I was like, where'd you work? And he was like a nightclub. And I was up. And at this point of time, I was still, I just started working in the Great Gear Market. Oh, yeah. In Kings Road. I've been kicked out of school for having sex with a drama teacher and blah, blah, blah. All of that scenario was going on. And still pretending. to go to school so my dad didn't know

leaving the house every day in school uniform and my mum, me and my mum pretending I was at school. So your mum knew? Yeah, she knew, but of course she was the one who had to go to the school to talk about it in the first place. Right. Because the school, you know, once the drama sex with the drama teacher happened.

It was like, we don't want Tony here anymore. Yeah, because I was, you know, why would anyone want me there? The amount of that... But you were abused. Yeah, by screaming up at that attention. Yeah. But you know what?

Without saying it, because my ego wouldn't allow me to tell anyone what was going on. Yes. Because I, seriously, when these people do what they do, right, it's not like, oh, I happened to, I was walking past that in Tesco's and that looked like something I'd like to buy. You know, I'll try that. It's manipulated. They, the most, everything that they do is they're predators. Yeah.

And the predator knows your, every move, it watches. you and it waits for the most vulnerable moment to take to make a kill. Advantage. Yeah. And, you know, it's all premeditated. So with me, it was like, I kind of just like, I'm not having this again in my life. And, you know, I was groomed to such an extent that my thinking was so offset. Yes.

So when I met Roy, when I went to the embassy, I thought, I remember sitting in the embassy club and thinking, and it was empty. It was like, you know, literally it was a quiet night. And I was waiting for him to finish work, sitting there in my little puma jumper and jeans. And I was thinking, I never ever want to leave here. I was just drawn to that light, music, the vibrations. Isn't it funny when you get somewhere and you go, oh, wow. I've arrived.

I've arrived. Yeah. It's like, it's home. I think I felt the same way. I think the first club I went to was MFI. Yeah. Oh, Burlington. Was it?

Like Thursday night. used to go out and I was like 14 15 Neville, Spike Carl Adams Bless them all like

and I had the same thing I never want to leave It was like coming home At that time The club scene What was it that you loved about it? The chaos The chaos

The chaos The laughter The real laughter. I mean, like, serious laughter. It's just like, I'd go out and I would laugh all night and just like, like, you know, for me, it was a stage. I found this arena

that people liked me in. Right. You know what I mean? You fit. I thought, yeah, it really was. And they liked me because I was funny. I used all of my traits, all of my performance. I found a place that I could do it.

They had value. Yeah, totally. And it was suddenly like this new family that I never had. People that were like, didn't give a fuck. Do you know what I mean? About my sexuality. Didn't give a fuck about anything. You know what I mean?

They were having fun. And it's really what I needed in life. And I just thought, oh my God, I found my arena. And it wasn't long before I found my group of friends, do you know, my inner circle, like the Paul Lonergan's, of Richard Havillies and all of these people that went on to be great people and stuff.

And, you know, I truly believe that that era of night clubbing, just everybody from it, yourself, Edward, so I could go on. Yes. Are the network of what, of creatives. Yes. That keep this world running. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah. Whether they went on to be supermodels or whether they went on to be editors of magazines or they went on to be TV producers or TV presenters. All of these things, they come from that creative time. And that creative time was because we had to create something to be seen. Do you know what I mean? I was the loudest person in every room because that was, at the time, that's all I had,

was to be the bitchiest, funniest, evilist. I want you to be notorious. I want you to be, you know. You really were. Yeah, no. I mean, you were, I remember when I first met you, I was absolutely. terrified because I'd never met anybody as honest. I was like, oh my God, he literally just says what he's

thinking all the time. It was so liberating being around you. And I think the other thing that I realized quite quickly was that you were very kind as well. You were honest, but I'm funny, but there was a really soft street to you. But also that you, I did feel a vulnerability. Like I, I guess maybe because I was. Yeah. I could sense something in you, but you were, fuck me, you were so funny. Oh my God.

But the few words, I never wanted anyone to come close. So I would be that loud. I'd be like, oh, look at a state there. Look at what the fuck are you wearing? You know, all of that stuff. So that you got within a meter, you didn't come. You couldn't get any closer.

That was it. I built castles. George used to always say to me, for me to get to have a conversation with you, you. I have to go through six people and up nine flights of stairs. Can I quickly ask you? Because you've just mentioned George, but we're talking about Boy George obviously. Boy George is like a historic, great, great friend of yours. You've both been through thick and thin together, never lost each other or the love for each other. How did you meet

him? How old were you? What happened? I was 14, 14 in the great gear market. He used to come, walk up and down King's Road to get photographed, you know, and he used to come in the Great Gear Market, which was an indoor market at the time on Kings Road. There were lots of new romantic stores in there that sold, you know, like Melissa Kaplan, all these really great people from that era. Rusty Egan had his record cage, and I worked behind it. And George used to come in every Saturday and always I'd have to be really bitchy because I wanted to be his friend. So my way of being friends with someone

was to be as horrible as I could be to them. I'll tell you what it is though. I think what I've realised is that you can only be really rude to somebody that you like a lot or know very well. 100%.

And I think that's clever, right? So you at 14 had understood you'd found a strategy that meant that you could get really close to somebody very quickly by being extremely rude. For me, I, I, I, love and hate, that thin line. I'd rather you hate me than like me.

Then I've got the upper hand. Because then I can say whatever I fucking won. And that was the way it was. And with Georgia, I was like, who does your hair? It's shit. They're not dreadlocks, they're shitlocks. I remember saying it to him. And he was like, look to me, he's like, you're vile.

I said, yeah, you're fat. And that was it. Kind of just was like, and then every week it would be that battle. And he'd come back in to see you. Yeah, and Richard at the time, who's one of my greatest friends and always will be. I was my best man at my wedding. He lived with George in this flat in Alma Square.

He was his flatmate. So it was kind of like we were all into Triangle already. And then George just come in and said, oh, she's vile. And I'd be like, oh, shut up. No one cares. Do you know what I mean? But I mean, you know, when you're telling this story, this is a 14-year-old boy.

Like, this is balzy. Yeah, totally. Yeah. to someone who's just about to become one of the biggest megastars on the planet because I don't think people realise how big he became at that point. Oh my God. Literally like just insane. And through him, you know, you start going to more clubs.

Yeah. A wider kind of, you started broadening your horizons in terms of clubbing. By that point, I discovered alcohol. So is that your first drug of choice? No, sex was definitely my first drug. Right. Looking back on it, 100%. That was the one that kind of was the problem.

But I used alcohol. People don't realize that sex addiction is really, really hard. I think when they read this new book, they will. It's the one that we don't see as a problem because we hear it a certain age. I've still got it on the man. All of that stuff. It buys into so many things. So that was my first.

even though I thought I was having the time of my life because I was introduced sex. I was sexualised at the age of 10. In such a way, I wasn't at home reading dirty magazines and pleasure of myself. I was thrown in the deep end. And so I, sex always suddenly become this thing that meant I could control, well, I thought I could control people, meant I could control situations. it become a bargaining tool. It become currency.

Sex become currency. At 12. I mean, come on. Like, what? And when you think about it now, it's very sad, isn't it? It's extremely sad. You know, that someone, someone can do that to someone and not care.

But also, it's extremely sad that that 12-year-old is thrown into that arena, and abused. And it was totally and utterly violated on every level. Trust, everything, especially when what was going on at home. Yes. You know, with my mum are having cancer at that point in time. My dad going through what he was going through, you know, it was awful.

It was an awful time. But, you know. But it was like for you then sex became something that you used to escape. 100%. So that was the primary elus. And then it suddenly alcohol came into play. When you're talking about alcohol, what kind of, like, how bad was it? Oh, so it always started off with a snake bite and black hole and Chelsea Potter on Kings Road after work. And then I'd be the last one in the pub. And then when I started going out clubbing every weekend, it'd become problematic. I would always go into blackout. I'd always be the last one drunk

and always not waking up in places that I shouldn't have been and situations. So you were unmanageably drinking very quickly. Oh, very, very quickly. There was never a long enough button. No, there was never kind of, you know. Oh, I need to stop that. Yeah.

Oh, no, I was reveling in that fact. Right. That, you know, I got drunk and said and did really stupid things. You know, there was a building, I'd be the one jumping off of it, you know, all of that stuff for attention. because that's all I knew was negative attention. I didn't know what positive, love, you know, earning attention for the right reasons. I wanted attention, look at me, I'm a circus, you know,

because it kind of counteracted the fact of what was really going on underneath. Yes. Yeah, I didn't have the tools to deal with what was really going on. So was it clubs that introduced you to other drugs then, Coke and? No, it's point. Lonnigan, a friend of mine. Basically, what happened was where I kept blacking, getting to drunk, drunk, it was suggested to me one Saturday night at the Lyceum.

I was probably there. Yeah, you probably were. At the Lyceum, it's like, why don't you have a line of coke, it'll sober you up? Oh, God, so it was used as a kind of, to offset the alcohol. Yeah, you need to do this, just do this, it'll sober you up. because and I'll be like, I don't need that, it's horrible. And I did it, of course. And I hated the feeling.

I hated that feeling. I was like, oh, God, I hate this feeling. And, of course, then didn't do it for like a week. And then, of course, next Saturday. I was like, oh, let me do that. And then it's Saturday becomes Sunday. And there you go. Then suddenly I was like, I don't know, you know, I'm not buying it.

People are giving me it to get in the club because I was on the door. All of that. that scenario. And you get drawn in hook, line and sinker. And at that point in time, as my career was growing, you know, I was no longer suddenly so-and-so's best friend, or that's Tony, he's best friends with this person. You were a person in your own right. 100%.

But I was always, I always had imposter syndrome, so I always felt that. Did you? Yeah, big time. Did you? God, isn't it? funny because when I looked at you I was like, I was so in awe of you. Thank you. It's quite funny, isn't it?

Because when you talk about your, you know, your career was taking off, you're talking about DJing. You know, you'd manage to kind of hustle your way into DJing. Hustulate the word. Yeah, but like amazing. And look what you did. Yeah. Look what you've done. You're still DJing. Now, how many people can say that? That they've managed to make a career out of something that they love and that you very nearly lost it all.

Yeah. Well, you did lose it all. At one point, you've had to rebuild your whole life. I mean, I want to go back to sort of you beginning to DJ and everything. I mean, that was a that was like a golden time when

you know, you were on the up and up, you were ascending. I mean, your star was rising. I'd gone, you know, I'd got, walked into this job that I never ever wanted to do. I never wanted to be a DJ. That was the last thing I wanted you to be. I kind of like...

What did you want to be? I don't know. I didn't have goals. I had that kind of life taken away from me. My goals were never... I kind of just... God, I want... That's really sad.

It is really sad, yeah. Like, no goals. No goals. No game plan, no goals. I was really happy listening to thumping music and disco-lite. So that was kind of an escapism from what was really going on because in my head, that was, that noise was there.

Like the drug. The noise of the club and the sound system took away the noise that was going on in my head. And I never had goals. I never had this idea of like, in two years' time, I want to be here. Well, no, in two years' time, I want to be drinking in a nightclub. Because no one needed to know anything other than that. Do you know what I mean? It was escapism.

Yeah, it really was. And suddenly I. I was working on the door of the Lyceum, which I blagged my way on to, I'd said to Rusty and Rusty Egan and Steve's strange. Yeah, the playground. They were opening that club at the Lyceum, which was like the biggest club in London. It was mega.

And I remember going to see Rusty, and I was like, why are you opening a night on that night? I'm opening a club that night. Rusty would, well, why don't you just stop, don't do that? And I'd come and work for us on the door. And I was like, all right, then I'll do that. blagged that job I just say well done

yeah thank you really good one and then I'd basically let the whole of London in for nothing and and literally I used to sign my name on the back of the invite and they're getting free and I used to have to at the end of the night hide the invites out of many people getting for free

and every week I would say to Rusty he'd be like how has it been tonight people are leaving they don't like the music just for something to say right literally for something so that I could just say, it's something to say. And Rusty was like one week said to me, well, why do you always slag off the music? I said, because it's not great.

And you were like, well, if you think you can do, Bell, why didn't you do it? I was like, you know what, I will? And the next week, I turned up with four records. Bangers. Four records. Natalie Cole, Pink Cadillac, an ABC record. Which one? I'm not sure which one it was.

It was their new one because it had just been reinvented. Okay. It was Luther Vandross. Amazing. Which one? Never too much. Obviously. Obviously. And a divine record.

Oh, brilliant. Yeah. And literally that was kind of it. I played both sides. And of course, I managed to get everyone to come. So, of course, I brought in a load more people. And then that was it. Suddenly, two weeks later, I had my own night of the wag.

on Tuesday night with Stephen Leonard called Total Fashion Victim. Three weeks into that, four weeks into that, Andy Warhol turned up. It was in London. Steve Rebell.

And then the next minute, I'm playing at Paladin in New York. Like, literally, that's how it went. That's how it went. It was like just my way. But, you know, it also happened to have the biggest pop stars on the planet as my best friends.

So they wanted that as well. as they wanted me. So it kind of went hand in hand. You go what I mean? I used all of those attributes to the best of my ability. And how long could you keep it under control? What, the drugs or the drink? Like all of it, like, because this was a time.

This was like amazing. It was all going brilliantly for you. When did it tip over the edge? Oh, so, you know, I mean, there were always little signs. Always little signs. I like, you know, like turning up for work and not being able to do anything because I was so off my nut on knee or, you know, all of those little things.

But they were fun. Then I kept it going for roughly about a good 15, 16 years of taking cocaine, flying around the world, doing all of that stuff before it suddenly got to the point where I no longer turn up to the airport. Because I think you and I, that was probably, because I stopped using at 24. That's right, yeah. That was probably that whole period for me, like 10. 10 years, you were in that, in my life this whole time.

All of that time. And then I remember hearing or seeing you at some point and I was clean and being like, oh my God, I am really worried that you are going to break, like something was going to give. Yeah, my mental health and my health on every level was completely, the end uply shot and I went from Hero to Zero over the course of bouncing years and then of course what happened was I'd get record deals and I'd get loads more money and buy a new house and blah blah blah and I mean these record deals were kind of amazing right you did you'd like

released singles yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I'd like literally was I had a massive deal with big life records with jazz summers and jazz was managing and me and it's like what all of this drama was going on and of course then I would be Tony and Tony and I would Tony the Tonyisms were coming to play I'd be like I don't need you I don't need it and

you know at that point in time my my drug addiction was far greater than I was far greater than I was and what sort of things were you doing at that point at that point I was just but like doing like an eight for Coke a day and stuff like that and when you say an eighth is that an eight like three and a half grams of Coke a day

and like like I you know I had like all of us had like when we're in that situation we have a list of dealers that ones at the top who's always got the best and you'd go down and and you know it was like it was like boring paying peter to pay to pay poor and getting it i was like caught in that world and and the and the people that i was hanging with weren't great people do you know what i mean yes well what do you as i always explained it as i was on that spiral going down and all the good things in your life get thrown out at the walls. Oh my God, that's a really good visual.

Yeah, literally, like a centrifugal and all the good people leave. Literally, it's like a Damon Hurst splatter painting. Literally, on that wheel, the colour's gone out. Yeah. And then you're left at the bottom in this murky browns muck that is my life. These are my friends. Yeah. And I remember one time a friend of mine said to me,

who are these people you're with? And I was like, they're my friends why? And he was like, you wouldn't piss on these people if they were on fire. What the fuck is going on with you? And I was just like, oh, you're better, ain't you? He was so right. It was so right. And it was kind of like my life had, it wasn't a life.

It was a survival. It had gone from traveling the world to traveling in a triangle from the dealer's house to the club to the dealer's house. and that was it. As I used to say it was like alcohol, coke, cock, that was my life. That was, it was the triangle of addiction.

Whatever way I looked at it, whatever way I tried to make it sound funny, that was it. I was in that, that was my life. And, you know, I stopped caring about myself. I stopped caring about

everything. I used to, you know. And also I think like, um, you had your appearance you know you'd put on weight when you were younger

and you were like this is like a this is a barrier here a wall and but then when you started using meth like you got so thin you went down to like seven stone

eventually completely and utterly emaciated like on every level like malnourished I also didn't drink water I used to think I don't need to drink water. Jack Daniels is made with distilled spring water. There you go.

But that was my thinking. I know, I'm not. Oh, it's fine. It's got spring water in it. But I really believed it. Like, really, really believed it. I was so dehydrated. They were actually malnourished.

Like that, like, so bad. And I aged. Let's talk about your teeth. Yeah. But I literally, so basically, you know, over the years of lots of alcohol and Jack Daniels and Coca-Cola and sugar addiction and all of that, you know, I've always bit my nose. I've always chewed my nose and I was always be in my mouth. And what I would do is the more out of it, I'd get a feel like it. And basically, over the course of smoking certain drugs like meth and stuff like that, I got this thing called MethMouth when my mouth is septic.

And all my teeth were loose. My gums had receded so far back from the cocaine use and being dehydrated. Gum infection. I would sit digging at my gums. And then that wasn't enough. So I'd get bits of stick and like toothpicks and do get them. And then it would move on to whatever I could find and put in my mouth. And I worked on my teeth loose and broke them.

My teeth were like rotting from the inside out. I was malnourished. Of course my teeth were going to rock. I would break them off. And yeah, in the end, I had no teeth, apart from one at the bottom. I mean, what's crazy is, like, I remember looking at you and thinking, where, when is Tony's rock bottom? Like, what is going to, but even losing your teeth wasn't a rock bottom for you.

No, because I made the people that I had around me accepted that. Yeah. Well, you made sure that you had people around you that would accept it. that word just as bad. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Because, you know, you kind of see groups of homeless people these days. Like where I live in Pimdicoe, we have like all down on the market in Victoria.

You have herds of drug addicts waiting for the dealer to come and they all walk off in a herd. And it's very sad. But I've been there. I've been in that herd. Do you what I mean? You know, it's like it's we find, we get comfortable with people where that find out. comfortable, do you know? Yeah.

And your mum rescued you, right? Well, yeah, on many an occasion. On many, many occasion. You know, my mum always was, my mum never judged ever, never judged. She'd say to me, I can't cope with what you're doing. And I'd be like, I'll shout at mum, give you some money. But, you know, it was like literally. And then one day, I just was, it got to the point,

where my life was so, I'd gone to this point around, so I got clean in 2007. And before that, I was at my house in Batsy, this is before I'm like, my mum came over, unannounced, no one ever come on Tuesday because it was come down Tuesday, you know, the one day the week where I was resting as such, and she came over and I was like, I, I, I, I, I,

I kept passing out, I kept fitting. I was having all these fits and I kept putting it down to drinking drugs. And my mum come over and found me unconscious in the kitchen, in the house, and rushed me to hospital. And then that was the day that I was diagnosed in 2002 and it was like, okay. With HIV? Yeah. Yeah.

But I, you know, it was, it's gone into my brain and I had to have lumber punches every in hospital for a very long time they took it i took it to the extremes of where i'd left myself so badly and so open that i kind of i was i was dying i was dying not any from drug addiction could you feel it yeah i could yeah i could i i i i i i i i the thing was i didn't want to feel so the more i didn't want to feel anything was the more the drugs went up and you know where i was a like obliterated in the corner of the house or locked in a room because that's what addiction does to us. That's where it wants us. You know, and my mum took me to hospital. I was in hospital for a very long time and I came out. How long were you in for? At that point in time, for about

three months, I think. I mean, that's a really long time. Yeah. And I remember one night being outside the hospital waiting with a drip in my arm in a gown, waiting for a dealer to arrive. I mean, so mad. Yeah, it is. But it is, but it isn't. Do you know what I mean? Because it's kind of what we do, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay. So I was standing there and a member, I talked about it in the book, I saw Julie, one of my party friends coming along the road. She was down the end of the road in a group. Can I just say something here? When I heard this, I was like, if that's not the fucking universe, I'm swearing a lot. My head is still.

I just want to apologize. to everybody. I'm with Tony. I'm swearing a lot. I don't normally swear this much. I just want to apologise. No, but I just think like if that's who you were sent, your HP, higher power, whatever you want to call it. It was. It was my first contact. Unbelievable that you saw a party friend of yours, but she's not partying anymore. No, she was sober and I was like, I was standing outside, you know, praying through God of of misunderstanding. Yeah, the dealer arrived quicker.

Oh. I was like, please let him come soon. Please let him come soon. And so when you saw your friend, and I saw her coming up to her road, and I was like, oh my God, thank you God. And I was like, Julie, oh my God, you don't understand out.

And she looked at me, she went, Tony. I was like, hi, you, Julie. How are you? You're right. I don't suppose she got anything on you, have you? And she was like, what? I don't suppose you've got like anything on you, have you? She went, I don't do anything

I'm sober and I was like, what? You must have something, right? And she was like, literally wouldn't take that. She was like, no. And then she opened her bag and started rummaging for her bag. And I thought, thank you God, yes. Even if it's vodka or whatever. And she goes like this and she puts it.

I thought she was put a wrap in my hand. She went like that. You're like that? Yeah. And I went, it was a white plastic key ring. And it was like, I really want you to fuck. to go to a meeting, you really need this, Tony.

So explain to anybody that doesn't know what the keywings are. So white plastic keyring is the moment of where we surrender to the fact that we have problems. It's like going to your first AA or NA meeting. And what they do is they give you this key ring or surrender. And it's a welcome to. It's like, okay, this is your white one. And then as you go to progress, so you get three months, 30 days,

30 days, 30 days, 60 days, 90 days. And then you move on to six months. nine months a year. Like the year one I love because it's glow in the dark. Yeah. And then you get, then you progress onto a grey one, which is 18 months,

which is always a great area. The dodgy time. Yeah, between one and two. It's so cliche, but it actually is really true. And, you know,

so we get those key rings. And every year you get a black key ring, which means that you're certain amount of years clean. And so this was the key ring. And I was like, oh, fuck off, bitch. Do you what I mean? And literally I took it and went in,

I didn't get, a dealer didn't come, I went back in. I went to bed, back to my room. And that was the first call of recovery. What, but you were like, oh, fuck off, your er, went inside. But did something change? Well, it didn't change. I just couldn't get over my head around how good Julie looked. Oh, right.

Okay, so she looked. She looked well. Beautiful clothes, everything. I mean, this is the girl that me and her would go to people's houses and stay for free. days. Do you know what I mean? After the club. Me and her like were like and I was just like this was like someone I was like wow what the you know and then there were many other instances like you know I would be towards the end right towards the end I'd be in after hours clubs and people would come in and people go oh there's someone I want you to meet and I'd be like oh god here come the Mormons and they

were like people from recovery and they go oh listen man let's take you to a meet And I would be like, I don't need that in my life. Isn't it funny, though, how when you are close to the end, these things start happening to you. It really too. That it really was your time and everything was telling you that. Yeah, it was, you know, the sad thing is you need to, if you're not listening, someone can say something to you a million times

and you don't take it in. But you know what? It's that million and one for time that actually works. You go what I mean? It's suddenly, you know, I always say to people, don't ever give up on anyone. Just support them in what they're doing. If they're taking them, you go, I can't be a part of that. Be a part of it.

Don't condone it. And don't be like, oh, let me get it for you. But be a part of it in the sense of there will come a time when they need you. Yeah. But if you shut them out, they're not going to come to you. I mean, just for anybody that's watching that might know somebody, that has a drug or alcohol problem. When are people ready?

How do you know? There's the gift of desperation, right, that they have within them, that they will do anything so they don't have to feel the way they feel. So it's a reverse psychology, so they get to this point where they'll do anything to get their fix, right?

Because they're so scared of that change. I used to say my life is so shit, but it's my shit. and I'm comfortable within that shit you know I got to the point where what other options did I have apart from dying

that was it that was all I had to look forward to and it always sounds really dramatic but that was it because you got to the point where I would plan my own funeral every day I'd be like ah I want Womack and Womack people into teardrops

make everyone cry that was that was it that was the final curtain as such. Even Mary Jay Blige, no more drama was going to be playing as I got cremated.

You know, literally I had it all planned. And at this point, at this point, you had HIV. Yeah. And can we just talk about what that was like

for you at the time? Because obviously, we, you and I lost so many friends. I'd already lost all my pig years before that.

In the 80s. Like, it was 85 to 95. It was terrifying how many people we lost you know obviously I worked at models one yeah like so many fashion

or everyone literally every great person that that gave us the blueprint to be who we are now that went through that and passed away and you know what for why did they die

why did they pass away in such a respectful way do you know what I mean People just shun them and kicked it to the curb. And we lost so many incredible people. Because your partner had the time Tom. Tom had HIV. And in fact, when he found out his life ended very quickly.

Yeah, very, very, very quickly. He found out in 92 and he was dead by 95. And I, you know, I still lived with him. We hadn't been together since 91, but I still lived in the house with him. because it was in Soir, I wasn't going to move out. You know, I lived on a old Contra Street. We're not going nowhere. But I, yeah, and I supported him through that,

and then as much as I could, and then I moved out of there and moved into the house next door. And, yeah, he passed away in front of us. It was such a harrowing situation at the time. I remember I had alopecia. I'd lost, like, so it literally was, I used to think, oh, it didn't really affect me.

Just going through that, losing. I've already lost so many friends. So many friends. Right. And to lose Tom was kind of like a turning point where I just thought, this is, I can't, this is just, this is awful. Do you know what I mean? Because being there just, because everyone was there one day and the next day they were gone.

Yeah. They'd go into hospital. They'd catch a cold and that was here. That was it. I think what was quite interesting about you, I think this is such a valuable thing to hear for people is that you got to a point where you were like, right, that's it. I've got to get clean.

But then the problem started. And you think, oh, well, getting clean, that's the thing. You fixed the problem. But that's not fixing the problem. You know, when you put down drinking drugs, right, or whatever it is that you're using, whether it be work, whether it be sex, whether it be shopping, all of these things come into play.

when we're dealing with different levels of addiction and where we're at. When we put down that stuff, we think we conquered it. Suddenly I've become the face of recovery. I was taking every meeting that I ever went to. I was, you know, had my own chat show every Thursday in Soho,

which was meant to be an NA meeting. I used to come to that quite a lot. It was great. Because I turned it into a comedy act. But, you know, that was me doing everyone else's recovery. And you put down the drink and the drugs, you still left, right? When you take the alcohol,

out fruit cake, Christmas cake. What are you left with? Fruitcake, right? I was bat shit crazy. No one could tell me anything. When did you realise? Well, the six-year get-out clause of like, suddenly I found myself homeless again at six years in recovery. I found myself literally, this is when we, we, when I literally found you and all of that stuff that was going on with, We've had the other, you know, like in Barry St. Edmonds and all of those things. Yeah. We were like helping other people do and sit for our own recovery. We were helping other people to get into services that they couldn't get into.

I was going totally insane. Sex addiction had taken over. Right. I'd lost everything in recovery. I found myself in a really lonely place because I hadn't changed my behaviours. Right. My learnt behaviours, my lying, everything that I used to. get through life that worked for me no longer worked. They no longer served that purpose.

So what I did was... That's a little bit like when they say the drugs don't work anymore. Exactly that. It's like all those behaviours have just stopped. Yeah, they don't work. You know, I got to a place in recovery where I just was like, what is going on here? You know, so I went and found a new sponsor, got on my knees and asked for help and surrendered to the fact that my life needed to...

to change. And it did. I started doing the work. I started working on myself to the level of, okay, I look good today, I feel good today, I don't need to do anything else. That, you know, that learnt behaviour was still there again. Do you know what I mean? Oh, I'm not in pain today, so we'll talk about that another day. And it wasn't until I got to the point where I wrote that book. Your memoir? Yeah, the memoir. And literally, two and a half years you took. Do you know

your memoir, I guess, is a bit like a step four. A hundred percent. Yeah. I've done many step fours and never once been honest. So just, just... So step four. There are 12 steps. Yeah, there's 12 steps. We start with one, where we admit that we have a problem. Two, is we come to believe in something far greater than ourselves. Three

is that higher power. It's about, you can look at it as, people look, this is a step that kind of normally drives people away because they think it's a religious step. It's not, it's about spirituality, about believing in energy that's greater than you. Well, can I just say something? Step three is you standing outside the hospital. 100%. And your friend walking past with an NA key ring in her back. Yeah, that is it. That is step three in everything. That is higher power. That's not, that's not a coincidence. No. And it's also you six years in going something's got a change.

something helps you like all the signs are there and you saw them you were in a place where you could see them and then I helped get a friend of mine clean and I moved into his house with him as in George, boy George and I was with George

and I helped him get clean and so many of my friends because I wanted the world to have what I had I wanted people to be to feel that that greatness of being sober and being in control of my own life and my own being. I've found that word responsibility, which I'd never had responsibility before for anything. Can I quickly talk to you about something?

Because before we go, I want to finish on this last chapter and make it all happy and lovely. Yeah, of course. And there's one thing that we haven't talked about, and that is probably the worst time. of your life when and it's to do with rage in a way because somebody hurt your dog yeah and you fucking kicked off about it and then

they accused you of something yeah we just talk about that so what happened was I was like my walking my dog was pregnant Taylor she was pregnant and bless her heart and I was just come back from the vets thinking she was having a phantom pregnancy up angel and I was walking through the shopping centre they are having

some kind of festival and they'd laid turf on the ground. Anyway, this kid threw a lump of turf at my dog and I went over and said, what the fuck do you think you're doing? Anyway, lost the plot because my pregnant dog, smacked him around the head and called him names and walked off. Later that day, the same kid came up to me with his friends and started shouting abuse at me, kicked me in the shin. Anyway, that was it. That was it. I then, the next day went with you to Barry St. Edmonds to visit someone. Yes. Right?

I remember. Yes. On the Sunday. Anyway, on the Monday, I was walking through Angels to go to a meeting and I got jumped on by about 10 police. Held down on the floor. It was like what the hell is going on? Anyway, I was accused. This guy, this kid accused me of touching him.

Blah, blah, blah. And it was like, what? And I pleaded not good. But where I was just coming to recovery, right? I was two years soon. I was working a program of honesty, and I said to the police, I don't need a lawyer,

because I kept thinking, I'm not done anything wrong. The lawyer, why do I need a lawyer? They're going to come in the minute and say, oh, sorry, wrong person, you can go. So I did this interview, and in the interview, I'd said that I'd been abused as a child.

I cruised as a gay man. I gave them everything they wanted that they could possibly think. And you just told the truth? I just told the truth. And the next minute, I'm in Pendantville prison. Wow. How long were you there for?

I was in prison for about three, three months. No, two and a half months. And then I went to court. Awful. Was it? Awful. I went into prison and they said, okay, we're going to put you on a special wing.

I was like, what? No, you're not. No way on earth am I going there. It's my worst fear of being around people that did what they did to me years ago I was not going to be in that red. So I said, no, no, no. So anyway, I went into A-wing, which is the remand wing. And then, of course, I was up on the, I called it the five on top floor.

It was awful because I found myself. But the funny thing about it, right, there is a funny thing. And you always maintained your innocence. You never like, you were like, look, I didn't do it. And did you ever get a lawyer? Yeah, I got the best lawyer in there. the world, a guy called Simon, who I'd known from clubbing from years before. Oh, wow.

And I bumped into him and in angel and I said, I really, yeah, there you go, right? And he took on the case and he knew from day one that I was. And then what happened was, as all the evidence came back and my DNA wasn't there, my fingerprints weren't there, nothing was there. It was, you know, they did a locating, nothing came back. I wasn't that person. and, you know, I had to go through the whole rigmarole of it. And, I mean, how long did you wait for your court case?

A year. Almost a year. And I was saying, like, through that time, there were stories in the paper. People are selling stories. You know, I was, I had to, I was persecuted, spat out in the street, all of those things that go with being accused of that most heinous of crimes. Anyway, I had my trial. within the trial it was made apparent that the person said

that they had made certain bits of it up to get me in trouble you know yet again my mouth had got me into a lot of trouble from calling someone and stupid names and yeah obviously vindicated of all charges and everything and you know it was I thought and I stood my ground

I was like I'm not going down for something I'm not that person. And, you know. So, so, you know, and because we were talking about your raging, that you're not an angry person, you rage. Rage. And the trouble that that used to get you into was extreme. Yeah, totally.

It was always, always rage. I'd end up fighting, you know, from rage. Always went to that point. there was never like okay I'm angry I want to leave oh no I'm not going nowhere until you lot are all being like hit with a pork gear or that was it do you know what I mean it was like this pented up insanity

and afterwards how did you feel oh my god hated myself because it did the trick made me wanted to kill myself rage always afterwards that come down from rage thinking what the fuck have you just done why did you do that why did you say it's drugs 100% it is

the drug. Rage takes you to it's it takes you out of yourself and turns you into this monster like all drugs and alcohol do and you know and I I by going to Tara and working on on that stuff and seeing that it's all right to be angry it's anger anger is an emotion then stabby came into my life and I remember going to Tara and saying I've met someone How did you meet him? How did you meet him? So I met, so basically I'd met, when I was in middle of sex addiction the first time, not the first time, but I was living at George's house. This is at the six year mark, right? Yes.

When I lost everything to sex addiction. My then partner threw me out, blah, blah, blah, even though I wasn't meant to be living with him anyway. I went to live with George with my dogs. George went, come and stay with me. I was like, oh, thanks. I was only meant to be for a week it was like five years later I was still there

you know it's what friends are for right as I kept reminding him so I got to this point of like complete and that's a sex addiction again and lost in it to such extremities

anyway I'd been chatting at one point I had seven boyfriends at the same time right that's how insane I was and a farmer I'd butcher Oh, you name it. I had them all where it was like, I was chatting to Stavvy, Stavros, as he was called. And he was at university, and he was at uni, not university, he was at uni.

And I was chatting to him, and I remember him coming to meet me in Hampstead, and I said, okay, I meet you at the Tuesday station. Now, the rule was when I lived at George's house, was no boys were allowed in the house, right? that was the rule. But I only heard it as no boys were allowed in the house when George is there, right? So the rest of the time, it suddenly was like Sainsbury's, you know, one in, one out, and it was, you know, with any addiction, one is too many and a thousand's never enough.

And so Stavia came, and I remember him saying, okay, I'll meet you at the tube station. I was like, yeah, great. And as I was leaving to go and meet Stavi at the tube station, George arrived home. And I was like, oh hi. Oh God, so I went to meet Stabian. I said, I'm really sorry, but you can't come to the house.

And we went, I said, but I know really good bush on the heath. So I took him to Hampstead Heath because we were living in Hampstead. Anyway, he always swears it was bonfire night because there were fireworks going up. But I always say it was middle of June and the sex was so good. Do you imagine fireworks? still argue the fact to this day. So then I asked him

the next day to go on a date with me. I said, we'd like to go out to dinner? He said, no. Wow. No, I don't want to. And I was like, why? And he was like, because I just don't want to. And he never gave me a real explanation.

So I remember telling him to fuck off. I didn't see him for 10 years. Wow. 10 years. And then as I was coming out of that, bad time with my ex and the house and everything and the book handing the book in and thinking oh my god the world's going to hate me because of the truth in that book um literally he came into my life like this shining light and then something really bad happened in the sense that

my house was being bugged there were like recording devices in my every room in my house yeah from my ex-partner had basically put recording devices in my house, had keys cut, and was going in and out of my house and getting these recording devices, and was selling stories on all my friends, which I don't really talk about much, but yeah, so I started falling out with friends, and they were like, well, where would that story come from me? Yeah. He was taping my phone messages. And then one afternoon, so I, Stabby was just a shag partner at the time, right? Come over, keep the cabway in, go off, It was very romantic.

And one night he came over and he had a jacket with number six written on the back. And I went, see you later, number six, as he went up the stairs. The next day, my ex-partner said something and then he said to me, oh, but tell number six that. And I was like, what? And it just dawned on me. I thought, how would he know that? How would he know that? I went home and I walked down my corridor in my hallway.

And for some of the known reason, right, higher power stuff, I went to the radiator and I put my hand behind the radiator. And there was strapped an iPhone to the back of the radiator recording. So basically he'd be coming in and out of the house every time I went out of the house. Because he'd had these, like, security keys cut. And then I called the police. The police came. They then got some of this company to come and swipe the house. There was like three different recording devices in my living room everywhere.

Going to the eye cloud, yeah. So anyway, we went for all of that. So that's how it kind of all been. So then we went into another lockdown, semi-lockdown this time. And I was flying away to Ibiza. And me and Stabby had just been like shag buddies. You know, that was it. There was number of all.

I couldn't, I could not bring him in. my world. Yeah, you were, you were trying to... There was too much going on. I had to save him, but I also had to save myself. Yes. And there was so much going on and I did not want it at the time it was right for him. But little did I know. Can I say something? Yeah. I mean, that's progress, right?

Yeah, 100%. Yeah. You were not that guy. No. And suddenly you're thinking, hang on a minute. I can't, yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's amazing. But little did I know that at that point in time, the X was sending letters and emails to his mum to Stav's mom.

No. Oh, babe, you don't understand. Completely and utterly telling her this and that and all of this stuff. And Stabby was like, this is his mom who's son's, son's dating somebody who's twice his age. Yeah, that's not okay. Like her prodigal son. And it was like, wow.

So they already had this picture of me of this person, you know, being painted. And I just couldn't bring Stabbe into that. And I just was like, no, it's unfair. It would be unfair to do it to anywhere. So then I was going away to Ibiza. And it was just still in lockdown, like just until end of it. And I said, I'm going to Ibiza at the weekend. Do you want to come with me?

And those words came out of my mouth, I want to cry. Those words came out of my mouth, do you want to come with me? And he was like, yeah, because we'd never even shed a bed, right? You know, we'd never like... For the whole night. No, for the whole night. Oh, wow. No, it was shagging.

on the sofa. Wow, yeah. Got rid of that sofa now. Anyway, but like we, and I said, would you like to come with me? And I didn't think it'd say yes. And he said, yeah, I'd love to.

So he came, because I, it was that point where I thought, do I give this a go? Does he snore? Is he messy? Does he smell? His feet smell? All of those things.

Yeah, petrified. Absolutely petrified. Is he going to like me? Is he going to see me for who I am? Because I still was at that point where I didn't know. who I was in recovery because I still had all the behaviours of a lifetime with me and all that trauma that I was

like raw and being dealt with slowly surely and he came and he unpacked his little suitcase and we stayed we were the only people staying in the W hotel and my other friends were there in another place and so we'd all got to and I was like please don't take pictures of stavey because at that point he was still a secret because I didn't want anyone else being brought into it to annihilate it. And wait, from the minute you got to Abitha, just tell me, did you, did you, after the first

night, did you just go? I know. Did you? Yeah. It was, listen, there was so many times in my life where I'd meet a stranger and they'd be the one. Everyone was always the one. Oh, this is going to be the one.

But, yeah, you know that. Come on. Oh, someone asked me, direct, oh, he's the one. Do you know what I mean? something like, would you like a cup of color? Oh, he's the one. Yeah. But with stabs, it was like he wasn't the one.

He was the 100. And I just, I really just thought, is there anything this boy can't do that I don't find endearing and loving? And, you know, he, it wasn't like any relationship I'd ever been in. He brings out the best of me. The best of me.

He completes me. He makes me, the man that I'm, meant to be. And he makes you like yourself. No, he doesn't make me like myself. You like yourself. He makes me love myself. I went through life wanting people to like me because I never ever wanted anyone to know the real me. And I want everyone to know the real me because of Stavi. Stavi brings that out in me. It's amazing me be all right with who I am.

And I don't, as I said before, I don't ever think, oh, my imposter syndrome sometimes seeps in, like, seeps in, but then it gets pushed back out. Whereas before it would seep in and I would be swimming in it. Yes. And now I don't, I don't ever feel that I have, I'm an imposter. I feel that I'm a very content, happy, take it as it is kind of man. And I really am, you know, we talked about masculinity at the beginning of this. You know, I think the most masculine thing anyone can ever be. is honest. Yes. Yes, Tony.

And I'm really, that's, that's, the Tara's, the recovery, the 12-step program. Everything has got me to that point where I am really happy to be honest. Do you get what I mean? Yes. Lying doesn't work for me. No. You know, it doesn't. It's like there's a point in my life where, what is the point in that?

It's so, no, let's just get straight to the point. And I will be honest. And it's like, you know, I got to this point. point where I'm so happy just being me and being we. What, what, because after your first book, like this obviously is written with Tara. Yeah. So I wrote that separately and then I gave it to Tara to read. And who are you writing this for?

Who's it for? This is a self-help book in the sense I want people to read it and take things from it and learn from my mistakes. Because there's a lot of mistakes in there. It's not the normal type of self-help but where you read it. Okay, you know, look, that belongs in a doctor surgery. This doesn't. This belongs on your bookshelf.

This belongs next side of your bed. And it's not just for drug addicts. It's like for anybody. You know, I didn't want to, you know, the publishers were like, can we put the word addiction on the cover? I said absolutely not. I'm not an addiction. This is about overcoming that.

It's about overcoming the insanity. So I've called it a user's guide to overcoming insanity. Because whatever we're using, whether we'd be drinking, drugs, sex, food, shopping. And if people are honest, lots of people use things that, you know, are acceptable to society. We use trauma to get through trauma. We create scenario. And it's all in that book because I've done it all. And there's, you know, it's, and then I wanted Tara to break down those chapters and tell the world how insane I am on certain points of it.

I'd also give tools. She gets a really practical, brilliant, you know, tools and advising here. His chapter is a therapy session. And I kind of wanted to do it in a way that wasn't clinical. Do you know what I mean? And it's very easy to access because Tara's bits are in the dark grey, which is really good because you can kind of, you know which bits her and which bits you.

It's very easy to. It's called Recovery Me because we're all going to recovery at some point in our lives for trauma, whether it be brain tumours, breast cancer, we're always recovering, right? And there's a point of us where we come off, self-medicating, whatever it is, and we get to this point where we're left with ourselves. And normally what we will do is when we will use those learnt behaviours as crutches. So when we're born, right, very briefly,

we learn to make noise to be picked up, to be fed, to be held. That noise suddenly becomes speech and it becomes, I want, I need. then those that's I want I need learned oh I don't feel well can I have some of that medicine and and so it begins and those all become learned behaviors then we find ourselves in situations where it's easier to lie and we get away with lying we're going to lie forever because that's another learned behavior and then trauma comes in or addiction or whatever goes on in life the breakup of our parents. So we learn coping mechanisms and we take them on. So we take all of

these learned behaviours to every relationship, every form of relationship. And by the time you get to 50, you have so many new learn and old behaviours that you do not know who you are or what you want in life. And I was that man. I was that man. I would find more drama to overcount the other drama, so I didn't have to think about that other drama. And that was it. And

this book is about recovering me. Finding me. Not Tony, not like Fat Tony or any of those DJ Fat Tony. None of those things. She's about finding, recovering me, the lost parts of my life that I never let anyone into. Even bud. You know what I mean? I never even planted those seeds. And that book, this book's about that. It's about letting that personal growth happen. Because we all want to, we all want to change. But change sometimes is uncomfortable. I mean, this is the whole point, I think, of this podcast. This is why you are like such a perfect guest because it is about living a life

where you are, you can die happy. And I think when you get to, yeah, and I think you can. And you've, you know, you planned your funeral and you planned all the tracks and everything, but you weren't in the right, like, but now you are in a place where you are living a life you love. You know yourself. Yeah, I do know myself. And it's taken a lifetime to get there. And you love yourself.

I love myself. But not in an egotistical way. No, I know. Ego comes from a place of fear. And I fear very little in this world because I've overcome that fear. Yeah. My God, I mean, I'm going to end on that. Like, that is mega.

Tony, can we just give Tony a round of applause, please? Oh my God, Tony. That was so fucking good.