Begin Again with Davina McCall - How I Healed My Nervous System (and changed my life)

Episode Date: January 29, 2026

What if asking for help is the one thing you’ve been avoiding that could change everything? Reset Month 5: HAPPINESS This month, we dive deep into a powerful and often overlooked tool for healing: asking for help. In this episode of Reset Month, Nadia and Katia, renowned for their work on nervous system regulation and self-care, share how the simple act of vulnerability can be life-changing. Many of us are stuck in “fight or flight,” constantly feeling like we’re running on empty and unable to truly connect with ourselves or others. Nadia and Katia explain why you are not broken, you just need to learn how to reset your nervous system, and that starts by letting go of the need to do it all alone. Through personal stories, including their journey to self-awareness and the profound lessons learned from their own relationship dynamics, they reveal how co-regulation, the act of supporting and being supported by others, can bring us back to a place of safety, connection, and peace. In this episode, you’ll learn: - How to recognise the signs of an overwhelmed nervous system - Why asking for help is the first step to healing - The surprising benefits of co-regulation and how it transforms your relationships - How to embrace vulnerability without fear or guilt - The simple daily practices that reset your nervous system and bring you back to balance - How tiny moments can change your life Whether you’re dealing with stress, emotional overwhelm, or simply want to live a more connected and fulfilling life, this episode will guide you to a path of self-compassion and mutual support. Nadia and Katia’s insights are a must-watch for anyone wanting to break free from constant tension and start living with ease and love again. Like, comment, and subscribe for more Reset Month episodes. Tap the bell to stay updated! 💚 🎁 Don’t miss our RESET giveaway! Sign up for the Begin Again newsletter for exclusive tools and a chance to win over £750 in wellness prizes: http://beginagainshow.com?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=reset Follow us here: 📸 www.instagram.com/beginagain 🎥 https://www.tiktok.com/@beginagainpod   (00:00) INTRO(01:31) What is the Nervous System & Why It Matters(05:58) Signs of an Unregulated Nervous System(08:27) The Importance of Safety, Asking for Help, & Letting Go(20:20) Shared Experience & the Power of Co-Regulation(29:18) Lindt Chocolate (Ad)(30:27) AirBnB (Ad)(31:35) Ancient & Brave (Ad)(32:43) What Are Glimmers & How to Spot Them(41:39) Journaling & Self-Assessment(43:27) Navigating New Relationships & Understanding Love(46:53) How Your Nervous System Shapes Relationships(50:06) How Noticing Glimmers Transforms Your Life(53:44) Navigating Life Changes in Midlife(58:56) Nadia on Finding Love Later in Life(01:04:35) Embracing Aging with Self-Awareness(01:07:33) Setting Boundaries in Tough Relationships(01:09:57) Prioritising Yourself(01:14:56) Glimmer Check-In Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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At the moment is a terrible time for fear. This is a time where people can get very dark. What tips can you give to people who are thinking I feel a bit lost? If it's hysterical, it's historical. I've experienced anxiety. And I was so used to being made to feel small. But it made me look at it. Like, why am I like that?

But I realized. And literally, my whole body went into an orgasm just from letting go. It's completely changed my relationship with my kids and with my husband. And for me, I started my first loving relationship, you know, at 48. How do people get there? The nervous system is basically scanning the world asking, am I safe or am I in danger? What are the traits of someone with an unhealthy nervous system?

Wow. And then you have come together to author this book called Glimmers. Exactly. A Glimmer is the opposite of a trigger. It's about building capacities so you can be stressed and come back to ease. We're going to talk you through a Glimber check-in. It helps relationships, work colleagues. as a parent, not everyone can go to a therapist instead.

You can... I've got Nadia and Katya here and you two have spent your lives basically trying to help heal us all and through self-love and self-care in freedom and in lockdown. Also trying to kind of help us with our nervous systems which we now know are so imperative, not just to our well-being, but also our health. And our relationships, I mean, everything. Yeah. But you have come together to author this absolutely glorious book called Glimmers.

I mean, you had me at Glimbers. I just love that word and the kind of picture that it paints. But these are tiny moments to transform your life. And thank you so much for both coming here today. Thank you for having us. So I want to kick off with asking you both what is our nervous system. I think actually it's something that we don't, a lot of us don't really understand. When somebody says regulate your nervous system, yeah, well, but what is it?

So it's our internal surveillance system. And it's just, I mean, this is like a really simple version of it. It's very scientific and we're not scientists. So we're going to give you the really simple. Good. I'm not either. Yeah. So it's your internal surveillance system and it's basically scanning the world asking,

am I safe or am I in danger? And it creates these protecting defense mechanisms that keep us safe throughout our childhood. And even before we're born, so our nervous systems being built in our mothers and it's being transferred through their mother to our mother to us. And so if your mother has had a really hard time during birth, you're going to pick up some of that in your nervous system. Our mum lost a baby when her baby was 11 months old. And Nadia was conceived like a month later.

Or the month that she found out, the month that our sister died, she had conceived me. And so only through teaching pregnancy yoga and helping women with their babies did I understand that all that grief was in utero. So I was kind of growing in this womb of grief. And then I came into the world and just from the experience of other women, I started to see how they behaved with their babies. And imagine if you'd lost one right before you you're just in fear all the time you don't know whether to pick it up put it down and sometimes as an adult you kind of don't understand like where is this grief coming from because it's not mine yes you know and it's someone else's and then you start to explore your nervous system and it's a real

deep dive into who you are and where all of these patterns come from and the glimmer is this this this pause and this little moment of safety where you can pause and make a different decision. So when you're talking about the nervous system, if you are in, and I know the expression is fight or flight, and I think that's such a good explanation for it because you can almost feel when it feels, yeah, it feels tangible, you're ready. I think what's interesting as well as that as an adult, going to be, going to be a little, into work, you know, when I started working in a restaurant, fight or flight was great. It was like, go, go, go. Like, arrive, get on it. Like,

so, I felt like totally on the kind of, um, on top of everything. Um, but there was also a sense of burnout. Yeah, it's when you get stuck in it. So fight and, you know, that's the sympathetic nervous system. So you've got these branches of the nervous system. You have the sympathetic and the parasympathetic. And again, really basic. The sympathetic is your fight, flight, and the parasympathetic is your rest and digest. So when you're in your sympathetic and your fight and flight, if you can't come down, like the problem is getting stuck. So when we get stuck in it, and with the way that society is, resting isn't considered valued. It's like you don't, you're lazy, you're this, you're that if you rest and we don't do it.

We feel guilty to rest. And so we're on this like low level threat all the time in our nervous systems. And that also comes from, it's like what we were talking about in the car today. Like needing to pee and you don't go. You hold it in. Oh, I see. You hold it in. Yeah, you hold it in.

And that's sending your system like, oh, why are you going? Or you're hungry, but you decide that, oh, I'll eat later. Again, you're not listening to your system. So it keeps you in this low level threat. And then over time, it builds, it builds, it builds, and we get stuck. So what are the kind of personality traits that someone would, say, start adopting if they were living with or have an unhealthy nervous system? If they were in the sympathetic state? Well, you have, you know, I mean, just in my relationship.

which is really lovely, I think I probably wanted to get on a plane, literally flight and fly away a thousand times every time I got scared. I'd be like, I'm leaving, I'm going back to London. Is that what they call an avoidant? It's not so much that it's an avoidant. It was just that I was so afraid of my life changed completely to be in this love story. to let go of all the things that I had very well placed to keep me safe. I had really good career. I was making my own money. I owned my own flat. I was in control. Everything had its place. I knew how to keep myself safe. Then you throw in like a person that lives in another part of the world. And I had to let go of some of those things. And I'd be like, you've made me give up everything. and he'd be like, but what about everything you've gained? You know, so I was just in this constant flight state of wanting to leave.

And it took his nervous system, calm, steady, to be like, okay, you can go home anytime you want, but I love you, I'm here, you know, to show me that there's another way. Then there's numbing, which we were talking about in the car on the way here. So I think a lot of us live in this state of functional freeze. So real freeze. So it's when like your sympathetic nervous system, fight, flight, didn't work. Like, this isn't working for me. I couldn't fight and I couldn't run.

Freeze. And sorry, when something terrible happens to a woman. Freeze. Yeah. And she often blames herself that I couldn't fight. But actually it's her body protecting her. And I think that shift as well in trauma. work when women hear that, like, oh, actually my system didn't fail me. It totally protected me.

It's really healing. When I was reading and listening and, you know, doing my research and looking at your Instagram account, which is amazing. Everybody should go and follow it. It is that the wording that you use made me very emotional a lot. And you use the word safety. And you use the word safety. and I mean safety is at the core of everything you do right it's how we I mean we were saying this about you just how safe you you it's like you emanate it to the people that are on your show you want us to feel safe yeah you do and that's co-regulation yeah like working can you explain when I read about this co-regulation it absolutely blew my mind.

I saw it on your page. I saw you liked that. Honestly, it really, really, because I had always kind of thought I'd been taught slightly that they could, you know, I'd learned it as codependency is unhealthy. Like to, and I still sort of agree with that, to depend on somebody and be needy.

But this co-regulation, it was something I'd never heard of before. Could you just explain what it is? Can I just say first of all is that we do need each other. And being needy is different to needing. And we all need each other. And as women, we're kind of taught, don't need someone.

You can do this on your own. And you become hyper independent. That's not so good either. And somebody said to me, you were only being needy because your needs weren't being. met. Yeah. And that I thought was quite an interesting way. And I think also in a healthy relationship, sometimes we do need more than the other person does and sometimes they need more than we do. And we've got a really funny story. We went on a magic mushroom retreat. I wanted to try and break this

habit of being the big sister that always feels like I've got to take care of my sister. Not that she makes me. It's just my desire to take care of her. And so we go on this retreat and I said Katian, you know, you're going to have to do this on your own. And she's like, well, you're not going to sit behind me like you did in labour and breathe. And I'm like, no, I'm paying for the retreat as well. I want to do my bit and you do your bit and we'll talk to them and they'll take care of you if they need you if you need them. And so we get there. Did I need them? Did you ever done psilocybin or not any kind of? I had. I hadn't. No, well, I'd played in my youth. Oh, in my youth lot. Yeah. Yeah. We played in our youth, but we actually haven't

drunk or taking drugs since we were 23. And I'd read a book and I was like, something in me needs to kind of rewire. Anyway, read the book, came back, researched, went on a retreat and really felt like that was kind of amazing. And also in a very spiritual way. So it didn't feel like I was getting high or anything like that. It's very different to when you're doing it and you're young because it's like four days. You're integrating.

Yeah. What does that mean? Well, you're doing all, what, integrated. Yeah. Integrating is when you're bringing the experience into your body. So you're integrating the outside. What you've learned from the psilocybin, but you're also doing, you're talking in pairs, you've got questions, you've got facilitated. So you're understanding, everything that you've learned on the psilocybin, you are then unpicking with something else together.

Exactly. What did it mean to you? Yeah. But even before they're prepping you and they're opening you. So you're doing all of these. exercises together as a group that is starting to open up and make you more vulnerable and like question and answers and so we went on this retreat i did it in april and then in september i thought for my birthday every year instead of this idea of getting older and closing down yes i wanted to

expand so i'm like i'm just going to do this for my birthday every year from here on out and cartier was like noticing some changes in me and she's like, I might come with it. And I'm going to wait, wait, you noticed after all. Oh, yeah. My kids noticed it like that in me. Really? Yeah.

And it was for me, I think I'd become so numb, just being a mum and just the everyday mundane activities that you do as a mother and working. And just, I was so overwhelmed and numb. And I was, I remember writing in my intention. I literally, want to burst my heart open, whether that's like feeling everything, the bad, the good. I want to feel everything again.

And I felt like I'd lost that. And so that was my intention on it. And if one felt, did you? Did you? We were on this retreat and we'd said to the facilitators like, okay, I'm the big sister. We're not playing that role here. You take care of if there's any problem. They're like, yeah, Nadia, we've got you.

They know me. we've got her. So they even set us up so we couldn't see each other. Right. I was like over there a few dead. And they know me. They know I've got this, you know.

And I'm lying there and it's kind of kicking in. And I just was like, you know, I'd really just like to put my hand up and have someone come to me. And they're like rushing around and everyone's crying and they're having. You know, they're having a thing. They're busy.

They're too busy. And they're like, yeah, got you. You're fine. And I'm like, but I couldn't really put my hand up it was just a little bit up just a little bit seamy something something was like stopping you

from really going I need help because I would never ask for help ever from anyone unless I was paying my therapist there's no way I would ask anybody for help and I never took help since I was 15 years so I know how to do it well on my own and I look over at Katia

and I said to one of the facilitators I was like can I just go out to Katia and she went, no, we've got her. We've got her. And I went, I want to. And she went, all right then. And I went over and I'd go up to Katia and I can just see her going, one of the facilities. She's going, what time is this?

We're only 15 minutes in. When is this going to end? She's like, you've got about eight hours to go. And I get into bed with her. And she's like, no, you don't need to look after me. You said you did. And I was like, I think. I need a bit of looking after.

I need you to look after me. And I didn't really need looking after, but I was like, how would that feel for me? And let someone, and she was like, yes. He's like, come on it. Come here, come on in.

And I just got onto this little mattress with her, and she put her arms around me. And I was like, oh, I just asked for help, and this is what it feels. And we had this total, like we were in this, Little sibling bubble, which we've never really been able to be that vulnerable with each other.

And I was like, it's like, hey, someone needs to love you soon. You ask for help. You deserve love. I love it. And we were like having this moment. It's like the amazing eight hours. But every now and again she would get into her mind and she's like, when is this going to be over? Am I going to come back from my kids?

I'm like, you're going to be fine. But you know what's funny? From that, I hear. Like, you know. needed her to just tell you it was going to be okay and you had the language. You totally found what...

Oh, because I know her and I know where she's stuck. You know her, right? And you knew that she knows you. Yeah. And she'd know what to say. Yeah. And then when you had your little moments, you were like, she's helped me so much. Like, this isn't leaning on me. This is just I'd love to help you because

you've just been with me for the last hour, sorting out. It makes me too. Just thinking about the moment. Because it was so, and I think from that was, what was that, September, September 2019. No, no. Yeah, 2019, it was the year before. And then September 2020 was when I started a relationship. And it's really my first loving relationship, you know, at 48. Yeah.

So it definitely feel just those little moments of getting out of. this hyper independence and I've got this and I've got not just me I've got everybody kind of thing that vulnerability and that letting myself feel like oh if I ask for a little bit help do you think someone will come and help me and it really just changed everything for me and for me it was like this I have this control at home and I couldn't be in control of this trip there was was no way it was going to let me control it. And so, and that's like what Nadi was saying is it was when I was trying to that the freak out would happen and when I just let go.

I mean, I did have a whole life orgasm. She was like, shit, I was like, oh my God. But it is. Wait, can you just explain to me what on earth is a whole life orgasm? Like, I literally, my whole body went into an orgasm just from this experience of letting go of the control. And I remember coming home and they were like, my kids were just like, Mom. Hang on a minute, Mom. Like, you're so much more chilled, you know.

And they were so used to me like, totally. Yeah. And they saw me come back from other retreats where. You know, I might be chilled for a week and then, you know, back into that. But I must say, it's completely changed my relationship with them, with my husband, and just made me a much more relaxed person. What you guys are talking about here is the kind of plague that hits midlifers of realizing that, well, I'm saying midlifers,

because it sounds like your boyfriend is not one of these people. but I have had my hands so tightly on the steering wheel of life that literally my fists hurt like I am ensured. Sadly, it takes something big that makes you go, that's not working anymore. I mean, we touched on this before this chat, but I did feel like getting breast cancer was like the universe punched me in the face and went, you haven't learned.

chill the fuck out. Or even what you're learning from the experience and being able to ask for help and having people take care of you, all those things that you've probably done for everyone and you let it in. We weren't very close. I left home at 15 and so we weren't really super close.

I just tried to get away from anything that had to do with my family. but when our dad was dying, he's Indian and he was dying in India and we both had to go to India for six weeks. That was 20 years ago this year. But it was from being there with him that brought us, we've been inseparable since. We just had to stick together.

We were on our own. Our dad was dying and we just became so close to each other. So was there a feeling of like, Oh, my God, we've had this here all the time for each other and where have you been? I've missed you. No. No. No.

We weren't sort of, the way we were brought up, it was in a kind of our parents played us against. Yeah, sorry, I couldn't get the words. I played us against each other. And so there was always a bit of between us. There was love, you know, but there was. this and um i think it just took a long time and us getting to know each other away from family yeah and as adults and yeah and as adults that brought us closer i think also like when you ask that question what made you close i think being together in that six weeks and maybe starting to talk

about everything that had happened to our eyes Had you not really done that before? You'd left early, so young. Yeah, she left early. I was in the States. Then when I went back to Hong Kong, you were here. Yeah. Right.

So geographically, you were in different countries. And then, like, being together in the UK and in India, it's being witnessed and knowing, like, because sometimes we would think. It's the witnessing. Yeah, think like, oh my God. God, did that really happen? Am I making this up?

Because obviously, you know, mom can be in a bit of denial or say, oh, you know, exaggerate or oversensitive. Oversensitive. You know, whatever it is. And, like, Dad was dying, but he was also an alcoholic and a drug addict. And, you know, just like having these conversations,

like, did that actually happen? Yeah, it did. I remember that. And you're like, holy shit. And I was making this all up. Yeah, hold on to that. Yeah. And it does make us definitely feel when one of us behaves in a certain way,

our nervous system, doing the thing that it does, which is to protect us, then having this witness who also understands the work of the nervous system, which is really such a blessing. Blassing is that when something happens, I can phone her and she can be like, okay, so that's your nervous system doing that, but that might be his nervous system doing this. And I can say, I mean, even she got this beautiful necklace as a Christmas present, a birthday present.

50th birthday from her husband. And I have a similar necklace that she is like, oh, you're not wearing that necklace anymore. Do you want to give it to me? I was like, yeah, sure, I'll give it to you. And then in the post arrives the necklace that she'd been saying she wanted and a husband had secretly bought it for her. And it arrives and she phones me and she's like, he pulled me the fucking necklace

and I went that's amazing and she went no we can't afford it and it's cost and that's how much it costs and that's my nervous system's reaction to like this insecurity

of finance and like our dad had lost all his money when I was in college and I got this phone call like can't pay for you to go to school anymore I got the phone call can you pay for some of the school

but anyway So I had to just explain to her that this was an old nervous system response and that this necklace meant so much more that he had secretly gone and bought it and that when she was 70, she wasn't going to think about how much the necklace cost. She's going to be looking down in it going, oh yeah, Casey bought that. And so we had to do this whole practice of me like holding the necklace

and going, I receive this, I'm so thankful, I deserve it, I receive it, I'm like crying and crying on the phone. And because I got it before he'd come home and I tore the box open. So then when he came home and I could go to him and be like, oh my God, thank you so much. Rather than like, why did you do that? Can I just say this conversation is so important. The way that you are talking about things is making me realize that. Everybody is responding via their nervous system all the time.

The time. In something, all they need is for someone to go, it's not what you think. Look at it like this, blah, blah, blah, blah. Which is what you two are basically giving everyone. It's a different way of perceiving what you're thinking or going through. And even like with the book, yes, glimmers, there are these tiny moments that make us feel safe. but the book is really a deep dive into who you are, you know, and you have to be pretty brave to go there.

You have to be willing to look at why. And your nervous system probably put that reaction in place so that you felt safe at the time. But it's like an outdated computer system. And we have to keep updating. But if we're not willing to look at ourselves, then it's hard to update it. I mean, self-awareness and always feeling like there's more to learn is so important.

But I think why do you think people don't look deeper or don't look at themselves? Because it's hard. It's not easy to be honest. Yeah. It's not easy to look at your shadows. And, you know, I was a very reactive parent. I was not used to mum. you know, being a mom, having a husband.

Like, I wasn't brought up in a family with two parents, you know, we could make a mess. We could kick a ball around the house. We could make noise. It was an absolute no. And we didn't feel safe being, you know, like I couldn't say, oh, shut up, mom or whatever. Like, have my emotions. And got these two boys, this husband, all they do is make a mess. all they do is mean noise.

All they do is scream and shout. And it's like total chaos. And my nervous system is like, danger, danger, danger. And I'm screaming and shouting. And he would, you know, like, they'd be play fighting. I'd be like, can you stop? I can't stand the noise? And he's like, oh my gosh, such a fun sucking Hoover.

But it made me look at it. Like, why am I like that? What is it with me? And it was through my trauma training. and my teacher said to me, it's your nervous system not feeling safe in that because it doesn't know that.

So every time you come in the house and you feel that, like the shoes are everywhere, I'm literally about to start screaming and losing my shit, you have to have that moment to go, look around, I'm safe. No one is going to get me in trouble.

No one's in trouble. I'm safe. I'm safe. The more you do that, the more you start creating a different pattern. And I remember mum saying at a dinner table she sat at the dinner table, you know, and the kids her kids are very

outspoken, they're heard at the dinner table, everyone's debating and having conversations, we were seen and not heard. We were not allowed to talk. I mean, my dad always said I had verbal diarrhea if I talked at the dinner table. But our mum was at dinner and

she said, oh, I've got a friend and she's got two little boys and they're so good. They don't say a word. And they sit at dinner. Like that was a really good thing. Freeze. You know, and Katia was like, yeah, I don't want kids like that. I want my kids to speak.

And then weirdly, I ended up in a partnership with also two boys. Wow. They kick the football in the house and there's fucking mess everywhere. And I'm like phoning her having my nervous system responses. But as the, you know, step-parent new partner, you feel you have even less right to react to that. So I can phone her and she's like, I'm going through the exact same thing, don't worry about it. And we're both like, okay, take a breath. We're all okay. That, ladies and gentlemen, is the sound of our new sponsor. No, it's not a chiropractor business.

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So I wanted to ask you, you sort of touched on what the term glimmer means, but could you just tell me what a glimmer is? Because I want to ask you after that, how do you set up your garden for a glimmer to grow? Okay. So a glimmer is the opposite of a trigger. I love that, right?

You've got me right there. And we're going to talk you through. This is so good. Yeah, yeah, great. Talk you through a glimmer check-in. Okay, great. But. So a trigger is sending signals of danger and a glimmer is sending your body signals of safety.

And so there are these tiny moments. It could be a smile from someone. It could be a warm mug in your hand or a hot woolspottle or your pet, whatever it is. Yeah, that's interesting. Okay. Then bring your body safety. And this is the key part. So it's not just like thinking about.

them because safety doesn't come from cognitive thinking. It's a felt experience. So when you think about, for me, a lot of the time, it's my little dog and I have him really close to me. Suddenly I feel my shoulders drop. So the nervous system speaks to us through sensations. So you need to feel it and you need to be comfortable with it. So it's about feeling it. and then getting comfortable with those feelings of ease in your body. And then you start, like, once your nervous system is like, oh, yeah, I'm really comfortable with this feeling of ease, then it's going to look for more ease and it's going to look for more ease.

And then it's not about getting rid of the triggers because they're always kind of going to be there and something's going to stress you out. It's about building capacities so you can be stressed and come back to ease. Be stress. Ease. Oh, so ease is your set level and the stress might come in and interview with that for a minute. But rather than being in a constant state of fight or flight, it's the other way.

We want to be able to know the difference and the nervous system is kind of wired for threat and to kind of find that stuff. And so by learning how to notice the glimmers and feel the glimmers and start to really experience. that feeling and understand it, then we start looking for that more. So if you come from a lot of drama, which I did in my childhood, lots of shouting, lots of punishing, lots of, just not joyful, I just looked for that in relationship. The more drama, the more excitement, the more, oh, he loves me because there's so much drama. It took a really long time to go, So that doesn't really feel very good. And this that I'm in now, it's not boring.

It's really safe. It's really fun. It's really loving. And I deserve it. And that's a really big thing for me. And, you know, Katia and she's had kids, so you hug a lot more. I wasn't a very big hug. Oh, you couldn't hug her.

If you went to hug her, she'd all mad. She'd just turned into like this stiff block. Until when? Until my relationship. Until the mushroom. Mushroom trip first. And then my relationship. But really joking apart.

Like, did the mushroom trip help with you? Well, I snuggled with her for like eight hours. And she did hug me. But was that something you'd never really expect? No. Wow. That's amazing. But we were never, you know, I look at when her kids are ill, they go to her bed.

You know, they come and knock on the door and they want to be with. We didn't really have that. experience and so it was first the mushroom trip and then in my relationship and now I'm like when I'm having a hard time I ask for a hug and it does make me feel better but that had never been the case before so I mean prepping yourself for glimmers is a very important part of being able to receive them otherwise your garden is arid and there's no way they're going to You need to slow down. Like, I mean, that's the simple version is you have to slow down to notice them.

If you're busy all the time, you're just rushing. rushing through life and you're not taking any of it in. I mean, it's like, I was thinking about it the other day. If you, you go on holiday, you kind of turn your phone off, you're not, you put a boundary with how much you're going to respond to people in the off hours. and everything slows down. So you notice the sunset, you notice the wind in your hair. It's not funny.

Yeah, everything. But then we come back to life and we're like on call 24 hours a day and just like so busy that you don't notice all the things that you probably experience on holiday at home. You still have beautiful sunsets and warmth on our face sometimes.

And even in the cold, you know, it's that sometimes that cold, rain on my face feels so fresh and good or just going for a really nice walk in nature. And when we're on phones and computers all the time, it's our bodies in such a posture and position of like focus, fight, flight,

that kind of system is prime to attack. You know, and when we look up and we look at the horizon and we take in everything that's going on around us. I mean, the story, I think one of the early stories in the book was just sitting on the bus and I'm on my phone. There's a baby just in front of me and it happens all the time on a plane, on a train. And the baby's really trying to interact and it brings me so much joy to interact with a baby or a dog.

Anywhere. Like, oh, hello, you're so cute and walk on. And the owner's like, oh, my God, I hope she doesn't stop and talk to me as well. You know, I don't want you. You just want the dog. And it's one of those things where it's happening all the time around us. And if we start to pay attention and really get that feeling in our body, we want more of it. It feels good.

A clinician Deb Dana coined the word glimmers. And she works with a lot of trauma. trauma survivors and saying things like safety or having too big of a feeling was too much for them. Right. So she wanted to make it so small that it was achievable for everybody. Not too fine. One of her words actually that she uses is okayness. Yeah.

And I love that because it's like forget a safety connected. Just are you okay right now? You've got your feet on the ground. Are you warm? Yes, check. Okay. Are you hungry? No, okay, that's good.

Do I need to pee? No, no. Okay. Right now, I'm okay. It's quite interesting to wonder how many people in the world are walking around not feeling okay. I think most of us are. And then we're react. It's like this reaction, we're all reacting to life rather than responding to it.

Yes. Exactly. And if reacting. And if we, part of the nervous system work when I started to learn about it, I started to look at people differently. And it wasn't like, they're bad, but like they're dysregulated. They're acting from this place. You end up having a lot more compassion for sound. And then the co-regulation comes in when it's like, if my nervous system can be steady, then you're nervous.

Then that will translate into your nervous system. it's also, you know, in labour, it's a big thing. As soon as someone walks into the room in labour with adrenaline and freaking out, the mother's labour's going to stop. When there's someone next to her that's really calm and like, you know, go, you've got this. Just take a breath. The other nice thing about this book, I think, is the written work that there are bits, yeah, the prompts and stuff that you can do to fill in. How important is it do you think for people, You know, we're talking about self-assessment to write something down. It's a big thing for me.

I'm a big journal keeper and what's been really helpful for the last few years, especially being in a new, whole new situation in my life is that I can watch myself grow from reading back some of these journals. I really love it. And I also have a lot of journals where I keep gratitude and things that I feel like, oh, I really grew through this or I handled this differently and I can write it all down and see how much I've changed. And not everyone can go to a therapist or wants to go to a therapist. And just by having some of these prompts we've got in the book and writing just what's in your head down on a piece of paper can get it out. and when I got involved in my relationship, when I was really, really angry, at least I knew this much.

Do not just vomit it out on him. Take a moment, maybe I went for a walk. Sometimes I would just write it all down, pages and pages of what was going on inside me. And as I wrote, I would just start to breathe and feel like, okay, I'm grounding. I'm settling. It's not a threat. This is going to be okay. And it was a very, very helpful practice for me. And it is a very helpful practice for me.

How can people go from? Because I am speaking to somebody at the moment who's entering into a new relationship and they are reactive to the fact that this person is good for them. They really like them a lot. And my friend really likes them a lot. But they are worried that they don't like them as much.

Do you know what I mean? They're doing sort of their thinking for them, but they don't want to seem too needy. And what they need to do is just relax into themselves. They've gone into, it feels like panic mode. And it's you too, and I like to feel in some way I have got much better. I'm not quite at the Zen. No, all the way.

No, but I feel like, speak to our partners and talk about how you. I think what I hear from you is you're not reactive. Oh, no, that's not true. That's not true. Yeah. We are reacting. My son said to me the other day, Mom, go read your book again.

And I was like, No, we are reactive. Do you write those books? Do you go read it again? And it's not about not being reactive, but noticing when I am reactive, so it's like rather than just... Yes, okay.

Yeah? Noticing it and then being able to go back and repair. But I think in a brand new relationship, it's easy to do that when you're married with someone, you've got kids with someone, you're in a long-time relationship, you're both in love. But if you're in the beginning,

Okay. It was a deal scary. What did you do? I had a really good therapist. Okay. And I did have her, like, I didn't make any move without speaking to her. And she's been with me for, okay, that's helpful. I've been with her for 18 years, you know, so she knows all the relationships I've been in.

She knew when I'd completely handed in the towel with relationship, like every other part of my life is good. I'm not waiting for this bit to happen. So I was able to talk to her and, you know, just little things like I'd been with him for a couple of months. Like, he hasn't told me that he loves me yet. I'm like, I don't know how much longer I can just hang around and wait for this. You know, like I've kind of walked out of my life a bit here. And she went, okay, does he do anything for you? And I'm like, well, yeah, he makes my coffee and he really takes care with how he makes my coffee exactly like.

And she goes, okay, that's love. And I went, oh, okay. And then I started to see it differently. Everywhere. It wasn't just these words. You know, it was like, it was action. We're going to take that to my friend. Yeah.

And it really took time for me to feel, you know, I always had this thing where I'm like, what if he just finds out that I'm not as cool as he thinks I am, you know, or I'm not as calm as he thinks I am, or I'm not as, anything you know i kept thinking i was going to get found out even waking up in the morning as myself with just you know not that i wear much makeup anyway but i don't know it was quite exposing for me to really have someone looking at me first thing in the morning and it just took practice and awareness and catching myself writing in journals going for walks and i just just kept noticing this person was still there, wasn't going anywhere.

These hangups, or they're like relationship hangovers from parents, from loved ones, where you could be in a relationship for a very long time and you've developed a strategy to cope with a behaviour, fear around noise dropping or being told off about something or somebody being rationally angry with you or not being helped at all how interesting those hangovers can be when you come into a new relationship and someone is quite helpful

and you keep going, no, no, don't help me and it's like, but I'm just trying to do something I want to help you but you're so not used to being helped at all that's why those like I think one of your questions is why do those big moments Yes. I can't remember what the question was. A glimmer isn't a big moment.

Yeah, that's why because, yes, it's amazing if you have a new relationship. Yes, it's amazing if you have a new house or a new job. But if the nervous system is coming with you into the situation. And you haven't healed that. And once the novelty of that thing wears off, you're still left with you. I went into this new relationship. Everything that I could have wanted. And I was absolutely petrified.

Petrified. And because it was everything you ever wanted? Because my nervous system had never had that feeling of safety with another person. So I didn't totally trust it. And we kind of grew up with us, you know, our mum was very independent, had to earn her own money. And she taught us very clearly, earn your own money, never trust a man, make sure you own your own flat or house and this is how you do it. So suddenly I walk out of my life and into this person's life and I'm like, oh no, hang on, I'm not supposed to. As a woman, I'm not.

Have I just given everything up for a mat? Is it? No, this isn't right. So thank goodness I did have a therapist that I could reflect all this stuff back to. She's like, no, this is old and it doesn't belong to you and you're not having that experience. This is your experience. and it took me a while to go actually even if this doesn't work out I'm all right and it doesn't mean that she's always all right there's lots of wobbles and none of us

have to all right there's also no no no but like what's nice is that that's good to say to everybody yeah none of us have to be all right all the time I often get a phone call going did I make the right decision yeah did I just give up my whole life should I not come home and actually work and did it and I'm like no yeah you're okay. So it's like this you know, it doesn't mean like once you figure out your nervous system and you know what the problem is, it's all

sailing from there. It's like constant, here it is again. Here it is again. And being able to like find that safety and come back to yourself. And I just wanted to share that story when you know, looking for this big thing whether it is a relationship

or whatever it is. But I remember lying on the sofa one day with Jonah and Hux her kids and we were just all cuddled up watching a film and I went oh this is love I've been looking for that but it's right here and in that moment I got it and then it was everywhere do you know what I mean and this was before the relationship it was suddenly I was like oh this is love and this is love and this is love and it's happening to me all the time I don't actually need that.

Wait, this has been a bit of an epiphany for me. So listen, you see things, you see the glimmers, but this is, I, this is, this is, this now sounds like a massive advert, it's not. But like, but, but, but, but basically what we're saying is, is that it only takes you to see the glimmer once, but then you will see it everywhere. Well, I, that was a big one. It changes, uh, an outlook. It definitely changes your outlook.

I'm not saying. But you have to feel it. Yes. I mean, I think in order for you to see it in more places, you won't see it in more places unless you felt it. It's an awareness. Once you have the awareness of it, it's like, oh, there it is. There it is.

There it is. Hmm. And another quite nice thought is like be the glimmer. I sometimes smile at people. and I think I wonder if like you need this you know what I mean my husband's like that he literally talks to everyone and he will constantly he goes takes a dog for a walk and he's always hi how are you good morning hi how are you good morning and all he wants to do

is just radiate love you know and and people know him everyone and we talk about that in the book it's the small all the weak ties, the weak ties that you start creating and then they become a community. And every little street, if everyone kind of helped each other out on the street, like they did in COVID. I was just going to say, they did in COVID and they did in the 30s and 40s wartime, you know, whenever there's. Yeah, but that was such a beautiful thing in COVID that we were all getting groceries for someone else that needed it and we were checking on this neighbour. and that neighbor and it was such a beautiful building of community.

And the other thing with glimmers that I think, especially right now, it is everyone's in so much fear and I sort of like fend for myself, very divisive. And a glimmer is connection. And it is, it makes you want to take care of each other. And I love that feeling of it. You know, it's like, I feel so. safe enough to take care of you and to take care of anybody else, but from a real genuine place on the, not because I need you to like me or not because I'm being codependent, I need to take care

of everyone. But just this sort of, when you feel safe and there's connection, it feels like we all belong and it doesn't feel like we have to be separate. And I think that if we can all do this in a tiny, simple way, it just starts to spread and that can only be a good thing, especially at the moment. Let's talk about the kind of midlifers. You know, often we know that it is a time when for men it's particularly difficult. I mean, people often laugh about the midlife crisis, but the good end of a midlife crisis is a sports car, but the bad end is suicide. You know, it's a time when you are realizing that you're nearly halfway through your life, if that, you know, like 45 is you'd be lucky to get, you'll be lucky to get to 90. And, you know, you're looking at what, what have you

done that you wanted to do? What did you, what have you done that you set out to achieve? This is a time when people can get very dark. What tips would you have for men and women? Because for women, it's perimenopause, which for lots of women is fine. I mean, for me, personally my menopause journey has meant getting to the happiest place I've ever been in my life. But I had to go through the change and I had to make some changes and let go of an opinion that I had of myself. How I looked or was perceived by society. It's really interesting like shift. But I am free.

Like I feel free and it's great. But I went on a journey to get here. I think what I'm hearing from you guys a little bit is that nothing good comes without the journey. You can't just kind of transport, teleport yourself into a great feeling of well-being. You've got to kind of work at it to get there. But what tips can you give the men and women watching who are hitting this time of life and thinking, wow, I feel a bit lost and I don't know how to change?

Well, I think, you know, like what you said, the good could be a sports car and the bad could be a lot worse. And asking for help is really important. And, you know, we do talk about that in the book. Yes. How to ask for help and learning how to be vulnerable because you can't do it alone. And we need community. And so whether that's help, you know, with a therapist, or joining a community or a group or something,

there's something for everyone, you know, and just go and get help. And there's tips on how to do that in this book anyway already, yeah. Yeah, and I think also at Midlife, there's lots of things that were working for you that maybe don't work for you anymore. And whether that's drinking or, you know, it could be anything. And that you're not, like, it's not working for a lot,

lot of us at midlife. Yes. And so you're not alone and I think that's where finding a community of people can be really helpful. But I think that the thing that I've been struggling with a lot and, you know, midlife is this idea that I am more than just what I do. I'm a person in the world and I'm of value and worth regardless of my career or how much money I make or how big my flat is or my house here. Like I have value as a person. I think this is a thing. That's a huge thing.

And I think it's a really, really big part because, you know, I've been really struggling with it because there's so much that I do want to do. And in order to make time, for those things, I have to begin again and start all over again. And I have to let go of an identity that has kept me very safe for a long time. I knew who I was doing that thing that I was really good at. And yeah, I like the idea of discovering who you really are as a person and how you can contribute to other people's lives with value, regardless of what you do. Can I just say, I almost want to applaud that.

I just like, I'm just like about to like, I just was like about to start clapping there. Because I think you just talked about letting, that idea of letting go and safety and beginning again is like, for somebody who is sort of stuck in that, like, mode of and that they aren't they are always like that you know we we said fight or flight can save your life but if you're always there you just saying letting go of feeling safe in order to begin again and do the thing you want that is your dream it all seems so overwhelming to someone I took a plane in the middle of COVID with a tiny little suitcase to sort of try something out.

I'm all quite sure. How did you meet your partner? We've been friends for many, many, many years. So you knew him. So I knew him as a friend and I knew, you know, his ex-wife and, you know, knew everything. But we were friends. And then it was really interesting. We had a dinner about eight years ago.

He came to London. We went for dinner as friends. And at this point, I totally signed off on relationships. I'm not interested. That's sick. You know, done it. I've done it. I've done it. I don't want anymore. I've done it and I don't choose very well and I accept that about myself. It's okay. You know and I wasn't going to parties anymore feeling like oh God I'm the

only one. I'm like I'm cool. This is okay but we went to dinner and we were talking as friends and I just remember being really myself just really open and just feeling really myself which I never felt with men because I had a dad that told me I had verbal diarrhea if I spoke too much or you don't know anything or whatever it was. And I remember going to therapy that week and going, yeah, I know I said I've signed off on relationships and I have, but what I did notice is at this dinner, no, not not buts with him, but I did notice at this dinner that I really liked how myself I felt. Yes. I could just say what I want. I wasn't trying to impress anyone. I just, I like that feeling. So, if I was ever to be in relationship, which I won't be, but if that's how I want to feel.

I want to feel myself, like how I feel with my sister, with my girlfriends. And so, again, that was the glimmer. It was a feeling that I recognized it felt good. It felt good to be me. And I didn't have to pretend or do a show or, you know, as kids, it was like, oh, please love me. Here's a show for you. you know, if I just did that enough, you'll love me more. But it is, it is a way to get love when you're young.

And so anyway, I remembered the feeling and I thought, oh, if I was ever to be in a relationship, that's how I would like to feel. And then it cut to you a few years later. And, you know, it's been five years. Wow, congratulations. Thank you. And it's a, it's a funny one because it's one of those things where I didn't want to talk about it a lot in the book and I didn't want people to be like, well, it's all right

for you kind of thing. But no one knew that it was really hard for a really long time. And there were lots of Christmases and New Year's and birthdays that I was totally on my own. I mean, with friends and whatever, but I didn't have a person when everyone else was having kids and doing all that stuff. And so I kind of, I mean, maybe this is just for us, but I feel like if I can do it, anyone can do it. I don't, I mean, if you don't mind, I would love to put that in the podcast because that's a very strong message.

And it was, you know, it did happen late and I'm really glad it did because I feel like I was very reactionary when I was young and I was insecure and I didn't understand what love was when I was young. know, and so I did need a lot more in a needy kind of a way. And now it just, I felt like I got to a place where I was like, I'm good. But it, I mean, that's what you've, you did that to yourself, right? Yeah. Well, with a lot of help from. Yeah, but this is what you're kind of trying to help people get to, where you're trying to help people get to here.

Yeah. Yeah. And the other thing, I think, is that you then, because you'd changed, you suddenly were attracting a type of man that you had never attracted before. I think that I attracted men that weren't right for me because I wasn't right in myself. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, he often said to me, like, you can't really handle the love that I give you. And I'm like, no, I can't. I mean, now, you know, I can. You can totally handle it now. Totally handle it now. In fact, not quite enough today. But it was like, you know, it took me a minute to really...

I think that also comes with that the difference between trying to heal and trying to, and changing that wording of I'm not broken, there's nothing to fix. And it's just old patterns in us. So when you realize you're not a broken person because of everything that's happened to you, there's nothing to fix anymore and then your nervous system can go out of this protection mode and soften into the safety and that's where all the yeah i mean i think one of the questions you know all the yoga the meditation the breath work that all these things are amazing things but the way we do them now is totally different and not looking for the magic wand that if i just

did that hard enough or strong enough or when that someone would love me. It's like, oh, I'm good. And these are ancient practices that are brilliant for you if they're done right. But I think this is the interesting thing about Mother Nature and getting older. It gifts you a piece that we don't necessarily have available to us when we're younger. I mean, there's that saying, if I knew then, what I knew now. I know, I know. And I always laugh because as a woman, I love getting older. Every birthday, I'm like, I'm 53.

Yes. You know, it's so great. Why? How have you got there? Because I know lots of women that don't. Because I love the way I feel. Yes. And I, you know, complain about things that are changing.

I'm not immune. I'm not looking in the mirror and going, oh, you're doing amazing today. But I love the way I feel. And my 20s and 30s were really fucking hard. And I didn't love the way I felt. I didn't love the way I felt when I walked into a room.

I didn't love the way I felt when I was in relationship. And now I'm like, oh, I'm good. And that only comes with age. And wisdom and acceptance. I think. But and, you know, self-assessment. I think you guys have talked before about not doing, but being.

Like, there's a difference between kind of being all busy, but like being in yourself and happy with yourself. But aid helps with that. But it also comes with work. Some kind of self-like reflection. Reflection. Yeah. And self-awareness. And the amazing thing about, I think, when we wrote self-care for the real world and we had to put the dedication at the beginning of the book, and we kind of chose to do it for our mum and dad. And in a way, it was because we wouldn't be where we are now without the story that we had.

And so it wasn't easy. It was really hard. But it also brought us to all this awareness. And that is a gift, you know, even though it. It was challenging at times. Can I ask you just for anybody watching because there are lots of people who have had challenging relationships with their parents. And for you to do that with your first book, you know, that is a big journey you've been on

through having a difficult relationship with somebody to dedicating a book to them. How do people get there? Well, I think for us what's made it easier is having really clear boundaries. And put through what a boundary is, really. I think sometimes when people think about boundaries, they think it's like, no. Yeah. And it doesn't have to be. It could be like, oh, I'm so sorry, that's just not going to work for me today.

Maybe I'll do it tomorrow. You know, it can be kind. There's an exercise in the book that leads you through great exercise. Because it's just asking you, okay, what's being asked of you, how much energy do you have to do it? How is it going to make you feel if you do it? And you can just go through those questions to even say, oh, you know what, that, no, that doesn't. I can't do that. I don't have, my cup's not full enough to give you that right now. And it, you can do it nicely. It doesn't have to be this hard no. I was reading a book and

she called it. Instead of boundaries, she calls it a membrane. which I quite like. Oh, I like that. The idea of like a membrane is a bit softer and it's not like a wall. Yeah, and there's also a great quote and if I can remember it, it would be great. It's like a boundary is the distance at which I can love you and myself simultaneously. Oh, sorry, I had to just go out that. You have to think about it.

It's the distance of which I love you and myself simultaneously. I'm going to have to go watch this back and write that down. We'll give it to you, but then we have to get the name. We'll put it underneath. Yeah, but I really like that. I think when we think about boundaries, we take ourselves out for the occasion and we take care of the other person. And there are times that we do have to do that.

you know like Christmas is the perfect flame where you're like oh god how many of these do I have to do or maybe all right you know what is one day and we've got to invite so and so to lunch and we can all do it because that's just what our Christmas what is about. If you do have to do that like if you have to go against yourself and we talk about this in the book as well is have something for yourself after so if I've had to like I don't know help a friend just making things up, move house or something. And I really don't have the energy. I need to then when I get home, create a space for myself where I'm replenishing myself.

Yes. So it's like we're just constantly taking care of ourselves. Yeah. It was a really hard one for me because I had a career where it was, I was fine, more than fine, you know. And everybody wanted me and I was big. and then I moved my life and I had to let go a little bit and I had to ask for help and have some I mean I had savings so I was kind of okay but support in some ways but this other feeling started to arise which got really uncomfortable for me too which was like oh I really like

making the dinner with my partner I'd never made the dinner before you know I was like humus and crackers and kind of like at nine o'clock at night after I'd been teaching all day and I remember the first Christmas and I was like

is this what people do just sit around and eat an open presents and oh my God and he's like yeah babe this is Christmas you used to just run away from Christmas all the time and these sort of things that as a woman if you had kids and you you, you know, made you, you know, and you did those things. I just never did them, but I started to really quite enjoy this feeling of sitting.

I'm like, everyone's sitting around the table for like 45 minutes. Like, it doesn't know. Oh, God, God, isn't that funny? You know, so you've never done that. I've never done it because I've just been working all the time. And so then it was really interesting because I started to enjoy that feeling and feeling sort of a bit no but I should be working

like I should be really spent a lot of guilt around it and you know like even for the two of us now we're just learning a little bit to let ourselves have a little bit of time that's

I mean I think that again is a brilliant message everybody and it's hard to do and there's going to be you know, a lot of people that can't do it because everyone has a different job and different things going on. But I've met so many people where they've got their local choir that they go to on a Wednesday. I'm like, what a hobby? Like, you just do it for fun.

There was something interesting that happened in a therapy session with my husband and I. So I've gone on this huge processing thing and I got back and he was like, I want to do it. and he got on the next flight and went and did the same thing. And then our, wait, what do you mean? A therapy. It's like a, I call it like open heart surgery with no pain. Emotional open heart surgery. Yeah.

And so we did this processing thing. And the facilitator, the therapist, was doing some couples work with us. And I was communicating how overwhelmed and, you know, feeling like he's not, taking his part in the relationship or taking some of the load off me. And he couldn't really hear it. And what she said to him, which was so interesting, is, isn't it funny, Casey, that on the processing, when you heard other women say those things, you cried and you felt so much for them.

But when your wife is saying it to you right now, you can't feel her. And it was like a moment where we both went like, yeah. Oh, yeah. He doesn't see me because all he hears is the nagging. And then he was like, oh, yeah, okay. And so then, you know, I had to say it again and he had to feel it and feel it. And ever since that, I feel like he gives me, he encourages me like, why don't you go and exercise or why don't you go and go for a walk?

you're going to feel so much better if you do that, you know. And so he's able to see what I need now. And sometimes we get so stuck in stuff that we can't see each other anymore. I just want to say thank you so much for, you're going to change people's lives. This book is a game changer. And it's digestible. It's easy to read. The font is a really good size.

Well done. No, no, no, no, seriously, that's a big deal. It is. Right. To be able to be digestible. There's work that you can do inside the book. And it's brilliant. So well done.

Thank you so much. Thank you for having us. It's a key pleasure. And just also want to say thank you for letting me hug you. This episode is brought to you by Nespresso. Hear that. That's your next obsession. Every coffee, a new world.

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