Begin Again with Davina McCall - I Took In A Homeless Man At Christmas... I Didn't Expect This To Happen!

Episode Date: December 11, 2025

In this episode of Begin Again, author and speaker Rob Parsons shares the extraordinary true story of how one simple act of kindness at Christmas changed his life, and the life of a homeless man named Ronnie, forever. Rob recounts the moment Ronnie showed up at his door on Christmas Eve with nothing but a frozen chicken and a plastic bag. What began as a one-night offer of shelter turned into a 40-year journey of love, family, and redemption. Through tears, laughter, and deeply moving moments, Rob reflects on how Ronnie, once abandoned and overlooked, became a beloved member of their home, helping raise his children and leaving an unforgettable legacy in their community. This is a story about what happens when you open your heart and your home, and how giving someone a second chance can transform everyone involved. Whether you're looking for hope this holiday season, questioning how to make a difference, or simply drawn to stories that restore your faith in humanity, this episode will stay with you. Don’t forget to like 👍, comment 💬, and subscribe 🔔 for more stories. Click the bell icon to stay updated on new episodes! 🌱 Follow us here: 📸www.instagram.com/beginagain 🎥https://www.tiktok.com/@beginagainpod  Buy 'A Knock at The Door': https://www.amazon.co.uk/Knock-Door-astonishing-self-learning-unbelievable/dp/0008708665 (00:00) Intro (01:16) Rob and the Power of Starting Over (02:36) The Importance of Believing in Someone (06:27) The Christmas a Stranger Knocked at the Door (13:03) Building a Life with Ronnie (21:41) Diane’s Struggles and Ronnie’s Support (23:50) Ronnie’s Endless Generosity (27:34) Letting Ronnie Know He Was Loved (30:48) Ronnie’s Bond with Rob’s Kids and the Community (34:43) How We Can Build a Better Society (37:52) The Gaping Hole Ronnie Left Behind (40:31) Homelessness, Care Leavers, and Social Responsibility (44:20) Gratitude and Final Reflections on Ronnie Sponsored by:  Adobe - https://Adobe.Ly/OneBetter Auraframes - https://auraframes.co.uk  use code DAVINA for £35 off Carver Matt Frames Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Your baby boom ends here Save the everyday with Amazon. Two days for Christmas, he was a homeless man. He's on my front door. And I said, would you like to stay with this tonight? And he did stay that night. And the next night, and over Christmas. And he never left.

Wow. My wife says to me, what if he does something? But you know, Davina, and I don't understand this, there was never the slightest hint of fear of Ronnie. It was kind of you and Diane looking out for Ronnie. Yes, Diane, my vibrant wife, she was to say, Rob, I don't.

know sometimes whether I'm his sister, his mother is social worker, but she was very sick in the middle of our marriage, very ill, and she said, I don't think I can cope anymore. But a couple of nights later you say, we'll be together forever, won't we? And this question hung in the air for much too long. I got a phone call from Ronnie, and he said to me, I've fallen down, I can't get up. He'd had a stroke. And I saw him just before he died, and he looked up at me. The last three words I heard from him, and this is heartbreaking. He said to me, you are the ultimate begin again, because you've begun again, but you've also supported someone else to begin again. What would you say are maybe the top learnings that you've had that can really change someone's life that any of us can do?

Today I am blessed because I'm talking to Rob Parsons and he changed his own life, someone else's life, his whole family's life, His entire community's life for the better by doing lots of different things, but in particular one incredible thing, which was take somebody in to his family's life and change their life. And he's here to tell us the story. Oh, Possons. It's a great title. A lovely time. Begin again.

Do you know why I called it Begin Again? Because I had a brain tumour and I was going to start this podcast and nobody knew I had a brain tumour. I hadn't told any of this lot. And they were like, do you want to do it on midlife or menopause or something like, you know? And I was like, no, I'd like to do it. So I can help people start again, put themselves on some different tracks or try something new. So that on their deathbed, they can look at themselves and go, I really gave it my best shot. And I've had a great time. And I've, I've tried everything. And that's what this is about. So you, it's a bit of, epitomize that.

You know, when I was a kid, when I was 14, my mom could read and write, not much more than that. We didn't read books in our home. We didn't have an inside toilet. We were, the mom was a clean other. I got the grammar school. I didn't understand it. And when I was 14, I came 34th out of 34. And my teacher wrote in my report, he's making no use of what little ability he has.

And then I met somebody who believed in me much later. I ended up, you know, I had a PhD and I got a lawyer and all that. But I believe. Who believed in you? Well, when I was about 15, I'm walking down the road. All I wanted to do is be a rock and mall singer, but I can't play the guitar very well. And I'm walking down the road. I've gone Elvis, Percy Stel hair, I got ice blue jeans, 10 embassy cigarettes in my back pocket.

Only 10? Very sensible of you there, Rob. Just 10. I'm about to drop out of school and coming towards Mrs. Older guy from a little church on the corner of our street. My parents didn't go to church. But we went there with kids in Sunday school. and I was about to drop out of that as well. And he said to me, Rob, next Wednesday in our home,

Margaret and I, his wife and he, were going to have a little discussion group. They couldn't have kids of their own. They didn't have any money. He lived in two rooms in his mother's house, but they work with kids. And he said, would you like to come? Well, all I want to is be a rock and wall singer,

but I said yes. Wait, can I ask you something? That's quite interesting. Yeah. What made you say yes? I mean, you know what it was? I think Arthur and Margaret made you feel as if you belonged.

He bought us fish and chips We played table tennis In this tiny room with the bats up against our chest And when I was about 16 He said, you know what? Do you ever put your hand up in class and do drama? I said, no, I don't do it with her He said, I think you've got a gift of public speaking

And I'm going to teach you He was the worst public speaker You've ever heard in your life And he taught me to teach stories To the kids in Sunday school No, but you know what is interesting, Rob? Like, there's something about you and the thing that the teacher saw that they tried to crush

is then turns into the thing that everybody's going, oh, hang on a minute, you've got something. Oh, hang on a minute, I believe in you. Or is it just that people with a big heart were like, I can see you are down, but did you feel that you had a little something, a fire in your belly? Do you know, honestly, DeVina, when I was 14, I didn't really.

I just thought I was rubbish. So there's other people believing in you that made the difference. They made the difference. They said, you could do this, you can do that. And you know, when you feel rubbish, low self-esteem, the tiniest compliment. Well done. Good job. Wow.

When somebody catches you doing something right and believes in you. Yes. You get the sense. There could be something else out there. And I think that's what happened. And so, I mean, you went through life with having thought that you were rubbish.

And this is such a massive begin again, I think, for anybody that's young, I was, I've always believed I was stupid, I did a memory test before I had my brain tumour operation and they told me I was smart. I'd spent, I was 57 I know. When I found out. I know.

And it changed my whole life. So believing in someone or find something can literally put them on a complete. You are the ultimate begin again because you've begun again. Yeah. But you've also supported someone else to begin again. Yeah. Which is such a beautiful thing. So talk me through how you first, first met Ronnie, because when you opened that door, Ronnie said to you, it's me.

Yeah. Yeah. You know me. Well, when we were kids, some of the kids in my street went to a little church Sunday school. And one day, Miss Williams

a Sunday school teacher said next week there's a new boy coming and you better be kind to him. He doesn't have a mum and dad like you lives in something called a care home and we're going to pick him up from the care home and bring him to Sunday school.

And when Ronnie arrived, he's a couple of years older than us and he was unusual. First thing he did was hide Miss Williams handbag. Second thing he did was put my friend Cecil in a headlock. He was a bit unusual. And then when he was 11, he disappeared.

We didn't see him for five years. When I was researching my book, I discovered he'd been sent to a home 200 miles away that the report described as disgracefully for subnormal boys. He was there for five years. And eventually that school was closed down because the carers had sexually abused the kids and they were imprisoned. But Ronnie comes back at 16 and occasionally he would drop into a youth club. I ran and then you wouldn't see him again.

But now it's two days for Christmas and he's on my front door. He's found out where I live. And he's got all his worldly possessions in the black plastic bag. And how old was he at this point? 29.30. Wow, so a fully grown man.

Oh, yeah, a fully grown man. And how long was it since you'd seen him? Oh, probably. Well, I used to see him around the best. You'd see him around, you know? So I'd probably seen him perhaps six months before or a year before.

It might have been a little sooner. But you'd see him around and he'd be occasionally drop. into the youth club where we were, but he was always distant and always different. But now he turned up at one of my kids' youth club's homes the night

before, and his father, the kid's father said, there's a tramp at the door. And the boy came down and told Ronnie to come up to me. And he was there. And in his other hand, he had a frozen chicken. I said, Ronnie was with a chicken. He said, somebody gave it to me of Christmas. A frozen chicken.

And then I said two words, and I've often thought about doing that, I said, come in. But those two words changed all our lives. And I, yeah. And he did. Diane made him a meal.

And so it started with a meal? Started with a meal. As the meal was finishing, Diane, I should be into another room. We hadn't been married long. We didn't have kids then. So, wait, how long had you been married? Oh, four years, three years.

So that's really not a very long time at all. You've got no kids. No, we've got no kids. And you invite this man in for dinner, and then she ushers you into the kitchen, and she says, what are we going to do? And I said, what are you going to do? What are we going to do?

We said, this Christmas. He's got nowhere to stay. She'd look, I'll clear the guest room. I'd ask him if you'd like to stay with us tonight. And I went back in, and I think by then we'd move Ronnie into another room and settle them in front of Coronation Street. And he hated taking his eyes off the rover's return. Because I said, Ronnie, and he turned around eventually. And I said, would you like to stay with this tonight?

And Ronnie Lockhart said, fine. And he did stay that night and the next night and over Christmas. And he never left. And so when just, I know that like Ronnie, you'd known him for a very long time and he'd been a bit awkward and he was a bit difficult. But now we know he was neurodivergent. and had struggled a bit with communicating with people. So you invited him in, but was he like easy to talk to?

Was he easy to get on? No, he was agony, divina. We were around the dinner table and we were having a meal with him. And it was like dragging out syllable after syllable. And so I would say to him, well, Dan said, him, where you were sleeping tonight, Ronnie? And he'd say, nowhere tonight. Where do you normally sleep?

Well, here and there. And it was agony drawing every little, every little thing out. And before he went to bed, Diane said to him, Would you like a shower before you go? No, thanks. And she looked to me for support, and I shrug my shoulders, and he went up to bed. I think, you know, the thing is, I suppose,

with someone like him, if the story about the care home was true, and that he'd potentially been a victim of abuse there. You know, something like a shower could be terrifying. Yeah. You know, like... Yeah, all of that. He was living on the streets or not having anywhere, no fixed abode.

You'd be in constant danger. You'd be on high alert all the time. Do you know, Davina, you're absolutely right, and I've never thought about that, the shower thing. Oh, really? No, you're right. Of course you're right. That, that, that, that, that, that, that must have been, that, that must have been part of it, mustn't it?

And he was always saying phrases like, have I done a bad thing or, or, or, have I offended, have I offended you? And always phrases like that would come out. So he goes to, he goes, he's in the room next to us and down and I'm in bed. And Diane says to me, is we're going to sleep. sleep. What if he does something? I said, what did you have in mind? If it don't be funny, we hardly know him. I said, what do you want me to do? She put a chair into the door. So I go downstairs, I come up with his darling, and shall I stick this chair under the door? And Diane's practically asleep by then. But you know, Davina, and I don't understand this, that chair won under

the door for long. The previous evenings, Ronnie, there was never the slightest hint of fear of Ronnie not with our kids, not with any of the else. He was the loveliest man. But I mean, even when I first read your story, the idea of taking, even though you did know him a bit, basically a stranger, you don't know him very well into your home. And I can understand why Diane would do that. It's a very brave thing.

Of course. But then he stayed. Did you ever have a conversation like, okay, how long is this going to go on for? Or did you both think, look, we can't, it was Christmas. I mean, that in itself is a big deal, right? First of all, I'm not recommending what we did. It kind of went on from day to day.

What happened is after Christmas, we talked to some people that run a homeless center attached to our church. And they said, well, to get a job, he needs an address, to get an address, he needs a job. That's the catch-22 that many homeless people are in. So we decided he would stay with us for a couple of months. And then you got a job as a dustman. We got him a job as a dustman.

I was a lawyer. And Dan said to me, I want you to take him very strong sometimes. I wanted to take him to work. Make sure he gets it on time. So I used to get up early, drop him off the dust job, go to the law practice.

And I get home at night and he'd be in a chair, smiling. And I remember one night, I said, Ronnie, what amuses you so much? You always giggling when I get home at night. Robbie said, When you take me to work in the mornings, the other men say,

Who's that brings you to work in the fancy car? And I say, oh, that's my solicitor. Isn't that nice? In that house? That, it's great. They must be like, what? I know, yeah, that's my solicitor, yeah. And, but you know what?

I've thought he never had a mum taking for a day of school, did he? But can I, this is something I love about you as well, is you understand. And I think it's because, I think it's because of what your dad was like with you. The little things means so much that, you know, I mean, your dad was great, but like, it wasn't hugely demonstrative or anything, but you taking him to work every day. And it might have started as like, I want to get you there on time. Yeah. But it ended up being a beautiful. It's more than that.

It's much more than that, right? When I dropped them off the first day, I watched him walk up the drive towards this. Because on the first morning, we took him out the day before to buy him clothes. And we went in the shop and we buy him an overcoat. And we're like proud parents. And, you know, kids' first day of school. And we buy him this, we buy him that. And we're in the queue.

And Dan whispers to me, what about underwear? Is he got underwear? So I say, Ronnie, have you got underwear? He said, I don't wear any. I said, he doesn't wear any. And I heard Diane hiss to him, a grown man with no knickers go. And we were both sent off to buy boxes or anything that would calm Diane down and we come back. And so he's dressed on the morning when he's going to be a dustman first day and he's got all this stuff and he says, I'm not going.

I said, Ronnie, why not? I don't want to go. And Dan said, that would make me sad, Ronnie. He was frightened, wouldn't he? And he said, okay, I'll go. And I remember him walking up the drive towards the dusyard and the other men were there laughing and he looked back at me. And I'd given him a key to our house. I said Ronnie, this is yours

And no No, do you know what? I ran up the drive and said Ronnie, Ronnie and he turned up and I said This is yours Ronnie And he put the key in his pocket Is that the first time? Yes, I was the first time he had a key

I wanted it in front of the men This is yours And he looked back at me And as I drove off to the Lord I was crying And his tears streaming down my face But you asked me about him leaving When he was

You know Ronnie was a dustman For 29 years So you take this guy Who would have I think died He wouldn't have I don't think he'd have lived alone I mean was he that poorly Yeah he was oh yeah

I mean He was he was just in the heck of a state really And he was a dustman for 29 years He paid his taxes He helped other people But after he'd been with us a while About 10 years I suppose Dan said to me one day

Darling We've got a big house But we've only got one bathroom and Katie's growing up now to be a young woman I think it may be time for Ronnie to leave us and I said he's been abandoned all his life and she said don't give me a hard time

it's not easy for me either I said I know but and then we talked about it one night I said you're right and I went up to his room to tell him it's one Sunday night I knocked on his door and he turned around from the television

and he said to me have I done a bad thing and I said no honey you haven't done a bad thing it's just that Dan and I were one and suddenly Diane burst into the room and she said to me have you and I said no and she said Ronnie could I borrow Rob for a moment she dragged me downstairs into the kitchen she fell into a chair burst into tears she said we can't do it I can't do it and I don't know whether he'd overheard us talking about the possibility of his leaving or when you've been pushed from

pull to post as a kid you'd develop a six sense but a couple of nights later you say can I talk to you both and he came in. I said, sit down. He said, I haven't done a bad thing. I said, that's all Ronnie. What is it? He said, we three are firm friends, aren't we? And I said, yes, Ronnie, we three are firm friends. And we'll be together forever, won't we? And his question hung in the air for much too long. And finally, Dan nodded at me. And I said, yes, Ronnie. We'll be together forever. And we would? He still makes me quashed. Yeah, but that is a beautiful thing.

I'll tell you why, because I know as a mother of daughters, and I'd like to talk to you about when your kids were born and Ronnie and everything, but how protective you feel towards them and how, you know, that's a completely normal maternal feeling that you'd be worried about having one bathroom and someone who isn't blood. Yes. Or that you, you know, even though you'd known him for a very long time at that point, it's still a thing.

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Because I can see what Ronnie gave to you. But what do you think he gave to Diane? Like, why? Dvina Dan has been remarkable with Ronnie. She was very sick in the middle of our marriage, Ray Y'all. Can we talk about that in front? Sure. Because it was after she'd had...

Had Lloyd. Yeah, Lloyd. She'd had a bad run. She'd had a gallbladder out. She'd had a miscarriage. We foolishly moved house at the same time as Lord is being born. And one day, after Lloyd had been born, she'd walk up and she said, They'd dwell in.

I don't think I can cope anymore. Wow. And those words are shuddin years, really, of darkness for Dye and I. Dye was eventually diagnosed with Emmy. I know that's a good. controversial illness, but whatever it was, my vibrant wife was gone. Yeah. And the incredible thing was, Davina, Ronnie came into his own.

How hasn't he been with you at that point? He'd been with us then, probably, well, 1980, been with us but 15 years. Right. 15 years, yeah. 13 and 14 years. And he would just make bottles for the baby. You used to look after Katie, watching play school while I push Lloyd around the block. used to make beans on toast.

It was as if when he joined us, he was a lodger. Then he became a friend. Now he was the brother I never had. Somebody we both loved was ill, and we were trying to get her through it. So he was amazing. You know, that's the lovely thing. Yeah. Some of you both love.

Diane used to say to me sometimes, she used to say, Rob, I don't know sometimes whether I'm his sister, his mother is social worker. You know, almost at the very end. she used to say to have you got the open down almost at the very end I think I think it's this idea of the

it was kind of you and Diane looking out for Ronnie and it's this idea of you and Ronnie looking out for Diane it's like the shift there

but what it must have meant to him. To give. Yes. To give. In the book is a picture and I think myself and Ronnie and my son Lloyd are at a dining. And Ronnie's got his arm around Lloyd. You see, to give.

Do you know, our church has a homeless centre and almost as soon as Ronnie joined our family. He used to come along and he used to help put the chairs out and he became the chair Supremo. I've seen many a visitor told off because they moved Ronnie one of what his shares, I'll tell you. And then he used to take the collection bags around and then he used to work in the homeless centre every Sunday night.

And just for Ronnie died, that little church, which is on a vast housing estate in Wales, managed to get money from the Welsh government to build a well-being centre and they called it the Lockwood Centre after Ronnie. You can drive past it now. It's a big sign. It was Ronnie Lockwood, the

Lockwood Centre. And Mark Drafford was the first minister of Wales and he came to open it and I had about two minutes to say why we'd called it the Lockwood Centre and I think he brushed away a tear and then he said this I think what changed Ronnie's life

was not charity none of us wants to be the recipients of charity all our life in this place he had the chance to give and he did to give used to run the football team you know I mean it was just And when he died, there were hundreds of letters of cards.

University professors, politicians, everybody knew Ronnie. He was loved. I mean, I think one of the really beautiful things is that when it started, I think I read one of your stories where you were talking about a pair of shoes. Yeah. And that he'd gifted some shoes. He came home from the homeless centre one night. And I said, Ronnie, where are your new shoes?

He had train this on with Holson. He said, I gave them there's a man at the centre. And the thought of a homeless man literally walking around in Ronnie Lockwood shoes, it's too ironic to imagine. And after he died, a woman, an elderly lady from down the road, knocked on our door. She said, I'm sorry to hear about Ronnie. I brought you a few flowers. Do you know every Thursday used to come and help me put my bins out since my husband died?

Did you know that? Sorry? Did you know that? No, not till afterwards. No, and she said he used to go up the co-op from me and bring me things from the co-op. What are you doing to me? I know. It's as a disaster, Rob.

Ha, ha. I mean, he did that. No, I know, he did it without telling us. Oh, I found loads of stuff about money. Sorry. I think the thing that I love about that is that you'd brought up a man. I know he was a grown-up when he came to you. Yeah.

You helped develop a man. Yeah. who did something kind for someone else. Not to show off. No. To you. Not as a kind of look at what a good person I am, but just because he wanted to help someone.

And that came from you. It's a big one this one. Well, what's amazing is that you are so kind. You've led a great life which in you've begun again and done amazing things and wanted to give so much. And then by giving to someone else, you received. And then by him giving to someone else, he learnt the value of receiving.

I mean, it's amazing. Yeah. And the smallest things, Davina. Do you know, when he'd been with us a while, I said to die. The other end I don't think he'd ever had anyone tell him they love him. A guy called Lem Sissy wrote a fascinating book called My Name Is Why

And he was in care all his life And he said people used to say to me I love working with kids But nobody said they loved me And I understand that I understand that it's hard But he said no And I said I don't think anybody's ever told only

They love him I'm going to, you know when he goes to bed at night He always pops his head on a door I'm going to say I love you only Can I ask you something very quickly How soon were you having this discussion How long has he been with you? Oh, do you know what?

He'd been with us for too long. I wish it'd been when he'd been first with us. But he'd been with us a long time, Davina. And you suddenly thought, like, I think actually this would be... I'd never said a... Yeah. But your dad didn't really say it to you today, so it's not something you were... No, it was easy.

And I remember Diane saying to me, gosh, he said, I think I'd feel a bit awkward saying. And I said, well, I understand, but I'm going to say it. And four, you went to bed at night, I'd say, I love you, Ronnie. I love you. And in the middle of COVID, I was in my study downstairs, and I got a phone call from Ronnie. He had a mobile, and he said to me, I've fallen down, I can't get up.

He had a stroke. And because of COVID, we couldn't go in the ambulance with him. And DeVina, it was heartbreaking. As the ambulance doors closed, he looked lost, and I shouted, I love you, Ronnie, and he shut it back, and I love you. And we were with him when he died. and we went into the, it was a little side room, was dark, and I hugged in, and I said, I love you.

And Diane got up from her chair, and she sat, lay next to her, put her head next to his, and she began singing a little song that the Sunday school teacher used to sing us when we were kids. Jesus loves me this, I know. And she sang it over and over and over, and finally he was gone. But he knew he was loved, although there was one dreadful moment in the hospital

because we could only visit him he was never registered with a disability he'd live with us all his life and because of that we had no there was no special privileges of visiting him and I saw him just for he died and he looked up at me the last three words I heard of him and this is heartbreaking

he said to me take me back I don't think he understood where he was or you know take me back but he knew he was loved and he did and after the funeral

Dan and I were for a moment outside on our own it was a bright blue September sky and she said to me do you remember that question

he asked us all those years ago we'll be together forever won't we and I said yes did you remember what you said I said yes we'll be together forever she will you were right

and he was loved all his life and our kids loved him and they loved it, and he loved them. So let me talk to you about your kids, because those again, you know, you took him in when you didn't have any children. And then you went on to have Katie and Lloyd. And it's one thing to be looking after somebody in a house where it's just the two of you, and you can kind of manage that and actually you did brilliantly. But actually bringing children into that changes the dynamic.

You talked a little bit about Diane struggling with their means. and then actually Ronnie coming into his own and helping out but how did all of that happen? What was he like when the kids came along? Did he feel funny or displaced at all? Because it would make sense maybe for him to feel worried. I remember the day we brought Katie home to the hospital. Diane was in the hall with him and Ronnie was in the kitchen

and I showed him, we've got a visitor for you Ronnie and he said, I know who this is going to be and she went to him and she said, would you like to hold her? And he said, I don't think that's a good idea. and she said, you'll be fine, money, and I realized he'd never held a baby, never held a baby. And so she said, sit down and open your arms.

And he opened his arms wide enough to have a small hippopotamus. She said, no, no, bring them in a bit. And she put Katie in his arms. And Katie looked as though she had to do her part of this. And she looked as though she could have been there forever. And finally, when Diane said hand her back, he looked very reluctant to let her go. And then he said this.

I'm good with babies, I am. I'm good with babies I am. But again, it's like nobody's trusted him with anything. Like they've basically said you're not good at anything. And you've shown him he's good at working. Yes. He's good at helping. He's good at holding babies.

Everything that you gave him. All of that. Do you know, you are right, good at work. used to come home and say, now the bin bags in this street, you have to collect them in this way. And we knew all about the bin bags in all the streets, yes? And our, I used to look after our rubbish. And where's our neighbours? People around us, we had a lovely home at one stage. Some people had gardeners and cooks. Nobody had their own dust man. And our neighbours, if they put out the wrong thing, they wouldn't take them. We could put anything outside our house because it was Ronnie.

It was Ronnie. And he looked after that. And then in the church, She had responsibilities, the chairs and the homeless centre. And at home, he'd help look after the kids. So suddenly, Ronnie was the one thing he'd never been in life. Needed. He was needed. And that changed everything. Yeah.

And so you brought Katie home. Yeah. And he held her. Yeah, he held her. And, you know, when we launched my book, they interviewed Katie and Lloyd, because they're grown with kids that are they all now. Yeah. They were there. Ronnie was there before they came and he was there after they'd gone with, even with children, their own grown-up.

And somebody said to Katie, what was it like when your friends came to the house? And she said, well, sometimes it was a little strange, but pretty soon they got to know him. And in truth, she said, it was just Ronnie. It was just Ronnie. Somebody said, well, was he an uncle? Well, no, he was just Ronnie. And he was. I think you're just talking about Katie bringing friends back has made me think about

how much it's not just Katie learning, but all of her friends are learning as well about life and about kindness and about patience and understanding. What a gift. You know, you taking in someone for all of that time was a gift for society, for your road, like for the church, for,

the community for the dustman that he worked with because he really got into it, you know, the lady down the road who's been he sorted for her all those years. You know, I'm like you doing that one thing, the tentacles, the ripple effect that that had on your entire community and your kids' friends. And it is incredible. I think. No, I was just going to say it wasn't until after he died And we began to talk about it People said, oh, we've never heard anything like this before

Yes I think we were just about to kind of have a bit of a discussion about it Before we started filming and I thought, no, don't start talking about this now Because I really want to I want to unpick it with you And that was about the hole That is left when you've been carrying for someone when my sister died. I cared for my sister 24-7 when she came home from

hospital with cancer and it was very quick. It was seven weeks but it was very intense. And when she died and you take all the meds back to the pharmacy and you know, like all the hospital bed goes and everything and you're just kind of left. You're left with an enormous aping hole. So when Ronnie died, you know, how was that? Like it was just... It was. And particularly because he had so many rituals that we missed.

Do you know, almost on the second day he joined us, he tidied the kitchen. And I went in and he said, I've got a surprise for you. And he opened the dishwasher and he'd emptied the dishwasher. And on the second day, he said, I've got a surprise for you. And I said, you've emptied the dishwasher. But he didn't like that. He liked me to say, oh, you've done this and done that. And he'd go, there we are, surprised you.

But, Doreena, we did that for 45 years. And it's really hard to look surprised on Wednesday when he did it on the Monday. But we had lots of those. He'd say good night before he went to bed. And so we missed him. But, you know, Diane and I have sat down since he's gone. And two things, we've said, would we do it again? And yes, we would.

It was very hard. and particularly for diet, but we would do it again. But secondly, it was like she said, he was almost like a visitor from another world. He loved to give more than receive. Christmas presents, he always gave Marks and Spencer's vouchers, right? But we had to guess what was in them. And so we'd have to say, oh, I'm like, oh, that amazing Ronnie, you know.

And every Christmas he would, but he loved, he loved to give much more than receive. Much more than I see. I mean, I think what you've done with what, I guess, like psychologists would call a social experiment, is unpicked or created like a blueprint of how to kind of fix society. By just taking in one person for that amount of time, you have learned what is wrong with the whole of society. and how we can build a more loving, inclusive place for people. It's like, what, I mean, what would you say are maybe the top learnings that you've had that can really change someone's life that any of us can do? Well, of course, I'm no expert on homelessness as such or that, but something's going on,

25% of people who are homeless have got a background in care. Yes, I mean, I teach creative writing in a prison, 25% of roughly the same proportion of adult men, have got a background in care. So although social workers and others do incredible jobs, something is going on. And a report came out some time ago of what could be changed and it said what is needed is not just systems,

but relationships. Relationships. So more and more now, local authorities are trying to put kids in care. There's something called supported lodgings where a child will go and perhaps live with a family or organizations such as safe families or home for good with fostering.

The truth is it's relationships. Yes. We all need relationships. We need that more than breath almost. So if we can give that, that changes everything. And even when we're buying a copy of big issue, not just to buy it, but to actually look in somebody's eye and ask a few questions and a little bit of dignity.

You know, I was on a subway in New York many years ago and a guy came on pitching for money and we all had our heads down reading and a woman gave him a dollar bill. And then just before it came to the next station, he moved towards the doors and he turned round and he said, in a very clear voice. He's a young guy and his features were pinched with the cold.

And he said, ladies and gentlemen, I haven't always been like this. And you should all know that anything can happen to anybody. And now when he's gone, there's a silence in the carriage because we know a philosopher's been on the train. And he's right. Yes. We spoke to one of the guys in our homeless center the other day. He's a homeless man. He said, I lost my family and my kids in a house fire.

And I never got over. I never, none of us know. And the really scary thing is we think we're a million miles away from that kind of life, but not necessarily. Not necessarily. We need each other. And that's the tragedy today

is we have more communication than ever digitally, but more loneliness. And so there'll be people in our street. Look, I don't recommend what we did, but we can take a bunch of flowers around. We can say, how you're doing? We could, the tiniest thing can make a difference. Yeah, so let's, I mean, obviously we're coming up to Christmas.

And it's probably quite a big time of year for you, right, emotionally. Yeah, it is. It always is. Yeah, best. Yeah. Wow, because it was what, the 23rd? Yes, 23rd, yeah. Wow.

Of December that he came to your door. Yeah. I've just said, wow, that's like, it's a big deal, right? It's like you must really think of him so much. We think of him all the time. And I think that it is a time when we all are grateful for what we have and lots of people come together and families come together and meet. And you yourself has said, look, it was hard.

And I'm not necessarily recommending that everybody just takes someone in a stranger. He wasn't a stranger to you, but from the street. But what are the things? that we can do to really try and make a difference to someone's life this Christmas. I mean, you talked about talking to someone, not just walking by someone on the street

or the big issue seller, connect on some way, even, albeit brief or whatever. Yeah. Well, I think that are big things we can do. So, so example, local authorities are crying out for people to say, we could help with the child as in care.

We could spend a bit of time with them or we could consider fostering or even adoption. So local authorities are crying out for people to do that. And then way down from that are the kind of things you've talked about. Just treating people with dignity and who are homeless. And then just people in our street, sometimes next door neighbors practically, never mind a mile away, just an act of just an act of. of of kindness.

And you know, we're embarrassed. We think we'll be rejected. Well, better to be rejected. Yes. Better to be rejected. And just, it didn't cost anything. Yeah. But it's our lifeblood.

And I'm getting on a bit now. And I'm telling you, when you get older, you look back. And it's those things that really matter. Many of the things we chased, the successful things we chased, to, you know, whether it's career or what, we look back and think relationships matter. They're the big things. I mean, I think you've mentioned a lot,

connections and connecting with people, and just an eye to eye, hello or seeing someone, or helping somebody feel seen or heard, you know, how important that is. Well, Rob, thank you. No, thank you. So much.

Honestly, I think, you know, you, not I think, you make the world a better place. Like, if we can follow or live by example or copy anything that you do, you know, it's about showing someone kindness. But not just that. What I loved about your story was that by doing that, it was a gift to you, that you got so much from it. and then the person you gifted with the kindness gives somebody else. Yeah. It goes on and on and on. Ronnie changed our lives forever and our kids' lives forever.

And we're grateful to him for that. Sorry, just before we finish, I just wanted to quickly talk because you talked about your kids' lives. And Lloyd and Katie, like, how has he changed their lives, do you think? Well, I think they had the, they had, they had, they were privileged kids. By then I was in the law practice who had a lovely home and we had lovely holidays and so forth. And yet this dustbin, Laurie, used to turn up outside our door. Do you know, one day we lived in a nice house at one stage when I was in law and the next door was a sir, somebody,

and opposite was a high court judge. And when we moved in, the woman across the road came across and she had blue rinse hair. she was middle 60s and she introduced herself as the chairman of the Residents Association and as she was going down to her, she said, do you mind me asking your question? So I said, no. She said, well, every day at about four o'clock, a dustbin lorry turns up outside your house and a man walks up and who is that? I said, all that's Ronnie. He lives with us.

He lives with you. Yes. Well, will he be with you for long? Well, this is Ronnie's home. Well, will he be with you forever? Well, I don't know, but this is his home. when she said, how sweet. But we never heard from her again. She'd be like that. Yeah, yeah. I said the kids,

Kuella DeVille. But, you know, I saw our kids had a very privileged life. But I watch them now with people who are disadvantaged and they're brilliant. Because Ronnie, it's like, this is Ronnie, you know.

So we changed them as well. And I think you probably changed the lady who was a bit. You know what I mean? It's like she would have gone, God, you'll never guess what. And it starts you thinking in a slightly different way. Well, we're all in categories, aren't we?

Do you know, near us we have a beautiful lake. And there used to be, it's full of ducks and swans. And some years ago, a very unusual coloured duck was on there. But it didn't last long because the others killed it. Because it was different. And we do that to each other. We're afraid of those We're slightly different

Or so on and so But actually we're all trying to get by as rest we can We're all trying to get through We all need each other And there's so much more in Almost everybody than we think possible Well I really just want to say Thank you so much

It's been an absolute pleasure Talking to you And I think you've given us all food for thought you know and I appreciate this idea of look it's not easy I'm not telling you all to go and take somebody in but there are a lot of lessons that you've learned from your experience that are all in here this book by the way which you've got to read and have some tissues next to you while you do it how we can all do better not in a judgy way but if we do better we receive I think that's what I've learnt from you

like giving is receiving in the most spectacular way thank you oh thank you it's be lovely to talk oh my god I've loved every second thank you so much love you I bless you, love you thank you so much

you're still aren't you hope you're so happy with Michael bless you yeah bless you that.