Begin Again with Davina McCall - Is Your Purpose Written in the Stars? How the Universe Can Guide You | Dame Maggie Aderin

Episode Date: February 12, 2026

One big dream could be all it takes to begin again. In this awe-inspiring episode, Dame Maggie Aderin shares how growing up as a dyslexic Black girl in 1970s London, at a time when racism was overt and dreams were small, sparked her wildest ambition: to reach for the stars, literally. A world-renowned space scientist, Maggie opens up about the personal journey behind the lab coat, from watching the moonlight with her father as a child, to falling in love with astronomy through cartoons, to dreaming of becoming the first woman named Maggie to walk on the moon. She explains how science gave her purpose, how curiosity became a lifeline, and why believing in something bigger than yourself, like the universe, can change your life on Earth. From working on some of the world’s most powerful telescopes to inspiring over 650,000 children through her talks, Dame Maggie shows us what purpose really looks like. Whether you're searching for meaning, battling self-doubt, or trying to find your place in the cosmos, this conversation will leave you inspired to dream bigger, and keep looking up. 💫 Like, comment, and subscribe for more fearless stories of growth and purpose. Tap the bell to stay connected. Follow Magge: https://www.instagram.com/scienceinnovationmea/ Pre Order “Starchild”: https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/468362/starchild-by-aderin-maggie/9781785949449 Follow us here:📸 www.instagram.com/beginagain🎥 https://www.tiktok.com/@beginagainpod 00:00 Intro 00:09 Who Is Dame Maggie Aderin and Why She Matters 00:46 What Sparked Maggie’s Passion for Science 02:04 How the Moon Secretly Shapes Our Lives 08:07 How Maggie Makes Complex Science Feel Simple 09:07 Why Having a Dream Can Change Everything 13:07 What Ikigai Teaches Us About Purpose and Balance 17:57 What Telescopes Reveal About the Universe—and Ourselves 22:04 Could Life Exist Beyond Earth? Here's the Scientific Take 23:12 Why the Future of Space Exploration Is Both Thrilling and Terrifying 26:06 How Far Can Humanity Really Go in Space? 29:27 What Breakthroughs Are Coming in the Next Decade of Space Discovery 32:57 Airbnb Ad 34:01 How Maggie’s Complicated Childhood Shaped Her Strength 42:07 Why Maggie Wrote 'Starchild'—And What It Means to Her 50:39 Maggie Opens Up About Facing Racism in the UK 54:44 What It’s Like to Find Purpose in the Public Eye 57:22 What It Meant to Be Made Into a BarbieSponsored by: Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.co.uk/Host  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Welcome aboard via rail. Please sit and enjoy. Please sit and sip. Play. Post. Taste. View and enjoy. Via Rail, love the way.

There's something else here now. Something new. From exclusively on Paramount Plus, it's the series Stephen King calls Scarious Hell. Everything here is impossible, but it's also real. Sci-Fi Vision.

because of the best show streaming right now. We're running out of time and we still don't know the rules. Don't miss what the movie blog calls something you need to watch. Saving those children is how we all go home. From Binge All Episodes exclusively on Paramount Plus. There are billions upon billions of galaxies. So why would life just occur here? We often build these telescopes and look into the heart of our galaxy.

Did you see? Bruce bumps. You're absolutely mind-blowing. Dane, Maggie, Adairn. You are a teacher of all things mysterious in the universe. You know, I'm a space scientist, but when I was growing up, we definitely saw the outside world is hostile, and almost they're out to get you. No blacks, no dogs, no Irish, publicly in wind days.

And also, you were the only black girl in your school and you wanted to do science. What was that like? That was my childhood. It was why I got the space bug. Really? It's funny. We first went into space because people were trying to bomb each other. Like, who owns space? What do you mean? Who owns space?

It's like an atom in my foot saying, I hone this body. We are on a tiny planet going around a fairly insignificant star. But we're looking up and trying to be part of this amazing cosmos. I think that's what's so exciting, the Great Unknown. The ultimate exploration. And also, as humans, we don't want to be alone. I want to talk to you about the likelihood of their being life out there.

Sometimes I get nervous. And I think, okay, am I nervous or am I excited? So I am here with Maggie Adarin and I am, let's just in fact say it properly, Dame Maggie Adairn. I can't wait to talk to you about what. Who is an incredible space scientist but also such a passionate educator and positive energy and promoter of science. It's for children and a teacher of space and all things mysterious in the universe. She's an absolute legend and an icon, and I'm very proud to be talking to her today. Maggie.

Hello. Hi. That was quite a build-up. I'm nervous now. Don't be nervous at all. It's you. You are it. So what inspired you to start looking at science?

Because it really wasn't, no, when I was growing up, we weren't kind of encouraged to do science as girls at school. No, no. And in fact, when I mentioned sort of science, people. They'd look at me. Also, sort of quite a chopped up education. So sort of all over the place and then undiagnosed dyslexia. And so when I said, oh, science,

you're sort of, what are you going to nursing? Because it's sort of, you know, it's sort of scientific, but you know, it's not so hard. That's the sort of level you should be aiming for. But I got the space bug before time I can remember. And how? I think

partly the moon landings. Because I was born in 1968. Moonlandings. happened in 69. Yeah. And so I was just brought up in that buzz of activity, you know. People telling me that taxi drivers are saying, yeah, we're going to do an EVA, an extra vehicle activity because, you know, when they're taking the detail, because it was just part of the psyche.

And so, and because I think I was brought up in that. And then my father loved the moon because it was his friend when he was in Nigeria because it helped him when he was cycling across the o'clock the savannah on unlit roads. Oh, wow. It lit the wave for him. Yes. Is that why he loved the moon? I think so, yes.

I love that. Yeah, but also growing up in London, because we were sort of growing up in inner city London, so you can't see many stars and that, but you see the moon shining through. Last night, just moved to a new house, and it was quite cloudy. But I just saw a sort of that was a patch of moonlight,

so I ran up and looked out at the window, and there is shining. And it just lifts my heart. And so, yeah, even if you can't see the stars, you can see the moon. And the idea that people had gone there as well. Yes. Oof.

Yes, it is mad, isn't it? The other night, there was a meteor shower. Ah, yeah. Wasn't there? And they said, look north. Oh, yeah. So outside of look north and you might be able to see it. And Michael and I went outside and we looked north.

We saw five shooting stars. Oh, it's five in an hour. Yes. It was unreal. We're out of town with no streetlights or anything. It was. Look, goosebumps. Absolutely mind-blowing.

So was it your dad then that gave you the kind of moon bug? I think so. So my dad was sort of mentioning this, like me. And also, because I'm an insomniac, sort of growing up. Yeah, you're wandering around the house when everybody else is asleep and you open the curtain and the moonlight shines in. So it's his friend, it was my friend. And so my father always calls himself a self-certified lunatic.

Yes, it did me do that because when it said, I was reading about you and it said that you were a lunatic and I was like, well, that's a bit rude. And then I, and then it came to me. I was like, oh, lunar. Yes, under the lunar cycle. Because he always said, you know, the self-certified is very important. So I'm not just a lunatic. I'm a self-certified lunatic. So I've bought this upon myself. And I think it was similar for him.

He just loved the moon. And growing up, I used to go to the top of the flats and look out across London. and you could see London lit up by the sort of moonlight and it's beautiful. So yes, and I always say it's hereditary because my father passed it on to me and I've passed it on to my daughter. And so we go outside.

We moved into the new house recently and I said, oh no, look, there's the moon. Oh, he said, stop that mother. The old neighbours used to hear me howling at the moon. No, okay, yeah, I'm 16 now. We're not howling at the moon anymore. All right, come on. Always howl at the moon.

Come on. I know. I think it's necessary. And it is so wonderful. It's liberating and cathartic. And you're so... I got slightly obsessed with these super moons. And I've never really...

Never really got into astrology or the moon. But I did know from having three babies that babies often deliver on a full moon. Every midwife I met. told me that if the due date was near a full moon I would probably you know go into labour on a full moon and then they also told me

that the police brace themselves is that true? Yes one of the things I was exploring I wrote a book about the moon and it was my love letter to the moon and it was celebrating and it was looking at sort of lunacy and the fact that you know and some police forces do actually put extra

cops on the beat when there's a full moon. And it's quite interesting because it's cause and effect. And we try and do it scientifically because you can say we're working in a hospital and something interesting happens on the, and it happens to be a full moon, you remember that. But if something interesting happens and it's not a full moon, you might not remember it. So it's trying to look at sort of the evidence and the sort of, yes, but I do like the idea. But also a friend of mine that was a social worker, she also said that they used to have more call-up. for disruptions in the home on a full moon.

They would all brace themselves for that. Oh, the phone's ringing more. Yeah, no. And I thought that's fascinating because we are made of water. Yes. And am I right in saying, does the moon affect tides? It affect tide. And so large masses of water.

Yeah. Well, actually, the thing is, the way gravity works, it affects everything. So, for instance, when I jump up, I fall down because the Earth's gravity is pulling on me. Yes. But also, my gravity is pulling on the earth. Now, my gravity compared with the Earth's gravity, it's insignificant, yes. But people do say if everybody jumped up at the same time, I still don't think we'll have much difference,

but it's a large mass moving. And so, yes, then it could have, you might see a noticeable effect. But yes, and so there is this interaction, the gravitational force, but it does, yeah, sort of, you know, pull the water, because the water is fluid. When you have sort of the moon on one side and the sun on the other, for instance, then the water gets all elongated

and you get high tides. And there's lots of things that spawn when there's a full moon. So yes, it does have an influence. So they spawn at full moon? Yes, quite a few creatures. So that makes sense about having a baby at full moon. Well, yes. But you try to work out why they spawn at a full moon.

And I think it is a sort of, it's almost like timing. It's quite interesting. If you look back in time, people often use the moon as a calendar because it's sort of, you know, of the order of a month. And so it's a nice cycle. And there are all sorts of things like menstruation and things like that. We sink together. So, yes.

So, yes. And the thing is, it's nice to sort analyze it and get an understanding of it. But yes, I find it fascinating. There's something very satisfying about this synchronicity in the world that when you start looking for it, it's everywhere. Yes. And we are, as humans, we're akin to patterns. We pick them up and we want to home in on them. Yeah. We like, we like that. Well, it's order. Yes. In the chaos. Yes. There's some kind of order in a pattern that makes you feel safe. Yes. Yes. I went to see Brian Cox the other day. Yes. And the first half, I was like, oh my God, I'm trying to remember all of this. I thought I should have taken a notebook and pen. But then the second half, he put it into practice. Yes. What it all meant?

and what it did and why. Yeah. And I thought, God, this is it. This is so interesting. And that's what you do. I think, this is what you explain. You explain things to us in a way that makes us think, oh, okay, I understand. Oh, that's the premise.

Yes. Yes. As a science communicator. Yes. For kids, all of these brilliant, brilliant books that you've done. For kids, they are amazing, Maggie. No, it's such a gift. It's a legacy this.

Because the thing is, I have to write it, because I'm dyslexic. Yes. I have to write it as I would speak to someone. about it. And I think I want to find those hooks and, okay, I've found this hard. So let's put it this way. Or there's a nice analogy and trying to make it accessible because it is glorious and it's horrible that people are missing out on it. Yes. What was like made you go, no, this is my passion. Yes. I think there's another things. One of my, I always say to everybody I speak to have a crazy dream. The crazier the dream, the better. And my crazy. And my crazy,

dream has been literally reaching for the stars. I want to get out there, both physically and metaphorically. But explain to people what your dream is because I love this so much. So all my life, it started with the clangers and I fell in love with the clangers. And I just touch you again, Maggie, the clangers. What was the noise they made like? Yes, they speak a whistle, but I don't understand. We knew exactly what they were saying.

Totally. Yeah, because it's a swanny whistle. And I think it's the intonation or something. But they're speaking a different language and I understood it perfect. And so as a child, I wanted to go and visit the clangers. And then next thing I wanted to do was I'm a lunatic. So I thought, yeah, next stop the moon. But also, yeah, I wanted Yurig Garan, the first person to speak.

Yes. Who I share a birthday with, both born on the night of March. He died the year I was born on my daughter's birthday. It was really, so, you know, we're talking about coincidences and links. So it's all very weird. But, yes, and so he went into first person to go into space. See the curvature of the earth. That was my dream.

Visit the moon. visit the clang is. Not was. It's why it was. Is. Is it? No, no, no. It's true.

I still want to get out there. You could still do that. Oh, no, no. I haven't given up at all. Yeah, yeah, good. It's more of like a retirement plan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, with the world, the way that it's going,

and we can go back to this. But it could happen, right, in your lifetime, that you will be a space tourist. Yes. Or that someone, and we should just put a message out there. If anybody does know anybody at NASA, obviously Maggie has been our first. has been asking for quite a long time if she could go to the moon.

So, you know, Katie Perry went into space. It's like, come on. She's not a dame. Actually, I do know the head of science at NASA because we studied at university together. We were both in the same year. But, and actually, NASA said, because we had the Apollo missions,

which sent people to the moon, and it was, you know, 12 white guys from America. But see, now with Artemis, so Artemis was the sister of Apollo. Yes, let's explain what Artemis is. is because this is really exciting. Yes, I'm very... It's beggar.

Isn't it? It is because we're going back to the moon. Now, there's some sort of... How long is it since we've done that? Actually, because the last time people landed on the moon was 1972. I mean... So it has, yes. And it's been so long.

And so they're sending people back to the moon with the Artemis program. So we had Artemis 1 where they actually sent an uncrewed vehicle into space. It orbited the moon and came back. The only passenger on board was Sean the sheep. where I'm very jealous of. How come he gets to go? Sean! I met him.

The actual sheep... Did you actually? Get off short. Okay, I was a little jealous. I think I behaved relatively well. But Artemis II is virtually happening almost as we speak. I mean, it's what, in the next few days, isn't it?

Potentially. So they have a few launch windows. Yes. And the next one is in the next few days. Now there's a cold weather sound. I was looking it on the way. here. There's a cold weather snap. So it was the 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th.

And the 6th and the 7th have gone. So the next 8th of February or the 9th of February. But then there's another sort of four days in March. And so these are the launch windows. Okay. And yes. And so because Apollo missions, there's 12 white guys,

Americans to the moon, Artemis is saying that they want to mix it up. So get the first woman to the moon, the first person of a different ethnicity, the first non-American, first person called Maggie, I'm just saying. Oh, Maggie. But see crazy dreams.

Yeah. And why not? I love the fact that you've said that crazy dreams are what have got you here. Yeah. Because I've loved listening to you to talk about that. And you know what was funny when I saw you had looked at Ikigai for inspiration and purpose and reason and, you know, that you're, you were aiming for that

kind of balance. Yes. Altogether. I bought this book from home and I put it up there. And I was like, oh, got to get this down to show Maggie. Can you explain what Ikegai is? It's a Japanese kind of philosophy, isn't it? It is, yes.

The Japanese philosophy for life fulfillment. And it's a diagram. And it's made up of four circles. Yes. And I'm almost going, so it's what the world needs, what you can get paid for. what you're good at and what you love, those represent the four circles.

And when you bring all those four circles together, if you can combine all those four different things, right in the centre, in the overlap, that is Iki-guy, where you have life fulfillment. Because you do what you love, you're good at it, you can get paid for it, and the world needs it. And it's up with you, whoa! That is the goal.

You're there. Oh, aren't you? The world needs it, you're happy, you can make money from it. Like, it's incredible that, Maggie, that you've done it. I'm trying to move closer to the centre. But yes, I do. I feel like you're there. Actually, but amazing.

But I feel, it's funny, I used to say I feel lucky. But someone's saying, but yes, it's not about luck. Because we effectively make our own luck. Yes. By looking for opportunities by driving. But I think it is having the vision that, okay, this is possible. Because I think, especially when I was younger, I get, oh, no, well, that can't happen. But, you know, what if, why not?

I think that's more of the attitude, especially as women. One of the things that I love is that you are very inspiring as a woman to be doing everything that you're doing, which I think, you know, we've really not had that many women in space science and being, watching them deliver or inform us or educate us or, and the way that you teach, and I think this is to do with being dyslexic, is you do try and drill it down to the simplest possible explanation. So it isn't something that is only accessible to extremely intelligent, nerdy scientists

for everyday people like me. It means that it is accessible and I can understand it and get what you're talking about and get on board. That's so inspiring. but you are that person for other people now. You know how lovely is that? Yeah, but it's mind-boggling. But it's big.

It's big what you've achieved. It's like a massive... So this Icky guy thing is like, you know, you see something and you have a crazy dream, but your crazy dream has done so much for, others, you know, like it's done a lot for you, but it's done a lot for other people too. Gosh, thank you.

And it's funny because, yeah, I see it as that sort of, you know, the tenuous, shiny thing in the sky, which I'm trying to sort of reach. But if it opens up sort of something for other people, then that's just it just feels like magic. But it's funny sometimes, look, actually, one of the things I realise, I think

I'm more determined than I I was aware of. And sort of a drive. What's made you realize that? Partly writing the book and realizing because one of the things I love public speaking and I go out to schools a lot and I do corporate stuff as well which is lovely because it pays for the other stuff. But I was assuming 650,000 people in the last 21 years. I read that.

Yeah. No, but that is like insane. I'm naked. It's mega. But the thing is it just clocked. I'm really lucky I do something called GCSE Science Live. And so last, actually this Monday, I was in the Brighton Dome. Speaking to probably 1,500 kids.

And the things you know, and speaking to kids is great. Because if you, you know, if you sort of wander off or if you don't keep it fresh or engaging, then the phones come out, the noise levels. And you just get sort of swanked with a level of noise. They are. And so what works for kids can work for anyone. And so I love doing that. But I love getting out there and speaking to people.

And so, yeah, the fact it makes a difference, just is the icing on the cake. How did you get involved with the telescopes? Oh, the big telescopes. Oh, yeah. Oh. In terms of telescopes, there were some glorious telescopes out there. So we have different types of telescopes. So there are Earth-based telescopes, so telescopes that sit on the ground.

And they're usually, you can do radio, but I've been mainly working on very, visible telescope telescope. So stuff we see with our eyes, this is the light that these telescopes pick up. And the sort of great telescopes with great names like the VLT, the very large telescope. We're so boring. We can't come up with any. The VLT. Is that a thing? The very large telescope. Oh my God, that is actually hilarious. That's what we call it. Oh my God, that is brilliant. But see, now we've got the next generation. So we've had the VLT about 25 years, But now we're building the ELT, the extremely... No, shut up.

That's got to be a joke. Is that not a joke? That's true. That's true. That's what we call it. Oh my God, I love this. What's the next one going to be? See, we do have a concept telescope, which we haven't built.

And I hope to see it in my lifetime. But we call that the owl. And that stands for the overwhelmingly large telescope. So you have to keep us like, we're not making this up. This is real. I mean, I don't know if we just lack in Naviginatia, we've just got a real good sense of humour. Oh my God. I thought it was going to be like the JLT, jolly large telescope.

Yes. We do have things like that. So those are ground-based telescopes. And they usually build them in sort of a, in the southern hemisphere. Because of the orientation of the earth, you're looking to the heart of our Milky Way galaxy. So our Milky Galaxy, hundreds of billions of stars, each star, a southern hemisphere. like our sun. And so now we're finding planets going around those stars. And in the southern hemisphere, you look into the heart of our galaxy, so you see many more stars in the night sky.

And so we often build these telescopes in the southern hemisphere, but on sort of mountains, like in Atacama Desert, it's driest place on earth, up in the mountains, and the sky's there. Have you been there? Oh, I spent quite a bit of time down there. Did you see? Oh, well, first of all, yeah. So you, they build these telescopes on beautiful locations. So you're up on a mountain, driest place on earth, so very little atmosphere. And so you look up and you just see the Milky Way. And it does look like a sort of a band of milk across the sky. And you can see all the in the southern hemisphere, you see the small and large Magellanic cloud, which are companion galaxies to us. And just so many stars. Wait, wait,

just to explain that. Oh, the cloud. Oh yeah. Full of planets. Full of stars. Stars. Yeah. So it's like a small galaxy clusters. And you can see them from the southern hemisphere. And it's just over, there's things you can see from the northern hemisphere, like the Andromeda Galaxy. And we are, our Milky Way and the Andromeda Galaxy are on a collision course.

What? They will, well. Billions are years time. Oh, billions of millions. Yeah. Everything's on an astronomical scale. Yeah. But yeah, they will collide together and form a super galaxy.

and things when this happens you think when you think of colliding you think of crashing and things like that but because stars are so well spaced so our star the sun and the next door neighbour star is a proxma centauri 40 trillion kilometres between them right so when galaxies collide there's a few collisions

but most of all it's like a wonderful dance the gravity pulls them together and they swirl around each other forming a new galaxy how many times does that happen or is it happening all the time because the thing is, I mentioned, okay, our sun is a local star, about 200 billion stars in our galaxy, each one like our sun with planets going round. One of the things that the Hubble Space Teles taught us is in the whole of the universe, there are hundreds of billions of galaxies.

So it's a billion. And so, yeah, these collisions and things like that, we can see what's happening in our galaxy by looking out there and seeing what's happening to other galaxies. I mean, I know you've had a chat with someone much, much more famous than me about this, and I'd love to hear about that, but I want to talk to you about the likelihood of there being life out there. Look, there's hundreds of billions. Yes. There must be life.

I mean... And one things I love is how much hubris we have as humans. Because, oh, yes, I was writing an article saying, yeah, who owns space. I was like, who owns space? We are, I was saying, it's like an atom in my foot saying, oh, I'm sentient and I own this body. We are so insignificant.

So insignificant. And so, but yeah, as you say, it's a numbers game. We are finding planets going around most of the stars we see. And there are billions upon billions, billions in our galaxy and billions of galaxies. So why would life just occur here? I think the probability is high that there's like that. Although the distances between our star and the next door neighbor star

and all the other stars in our galaxy, let alone other galaxies, are vast. I mean, I think traveling. The idea of being able to travel. Yes, from ours to someone else. So 40 trillion kilometres to the next door neighbor star. And using current technology, that would take 76,000 years. But is quantum travel, I think. Yes.

So there's something called quantum entanglement. Yes. where you can sort of have a particle and they are sort of synced together and then you can separate them and anything that happens to this particle also happens to that particle but when you separate them

you could separate them yeah 40 trillion kilometres for instance so send one of them to our next door neighbour star system and yet what happens to that one we will pick up here so it's like a receiver almost and things in quite but you're in good company

Einstein said he didn't understand quantum mechanics because in the macro world, the world we live in, things, you push that, you know, something happens. In the quantum world, it's all about probability where you're going to find things. And we are using that in computing and AI and it's just opening up a whole heap of possibilities. And I find it exciting.

Slightly terrifying, but exciting at the same time. What do you find terrifying about it? So, hmm, when we're talking about, The thing I find terrifying is the human element because we have a habit of taking things, amazing things and utilising them. The wrong thing. Yes.

We first went into space because people were trying to bomb each other. Yes. Space came out of a really dark time. It was only that we discovered, oh my God, we can go into space and we can do things out here. And so it opened up a different opportunity. But yes, generally speaking, we are not always driven by the best motivation. No.

But it scares me because we are taking our first. footfalls into space. We're going back to the moon. And we're talking about using the moon to go to Mars and so maybe asteroid mining. But the thing is we have to get it right. Because there's so many times where we've, you know, we're starting that journey. And if we don't do it sustainably, if we don't do it for all of humanity, if we don't think about the bigger picture, we will go off on the wrong foot and we'll continue on that trend. So it's incredibly there's so much happening. And it's so exciting. But yes, let's get it right. it right. Yes. And we've

not done a brilliant job at getting these huge discoveries or right in the past. I think we owe it to humanity after everything we've been through in the past I don't know, for 80 years or you know, it's important and it's all going to happen really fast. It is. Yes. And it's like a runaway train. When we go

off on the wrong track, we keep on going. But this is a moment to me to think and say, okay, let's get this right. Let's get the legislation. in place so it's yes it's good for everybody yes that was always the hope um so with with like space travel um how far are we do you think from like being able to do something like go to a planet trillions of miles away i mean is that going to happen in our lifetime oh i hope so i think it might right i'm definitely the glass half full sort of place right yes yes i can see that

I mean, quite apparent. But the thing is, it's challenging. And there is a wonderful project called Breakthrough Star Shot. And I mentioned that, so you know, to the next door neighbor star, out of the 300 billion in our galaxy, using current technology will take 76,000 years. Yes, which is a bit of a downer. But with Breakthrough Star Shot,

they're using something called a solar sail. And you can actually shine laser lights. So laser light is light photons. And you can accelerate it in space. to about a fifth of the speed of light. Wow. For any trekkies. But yeah, you can accelerate it

and it will just take 20 years to get there. And so... Wow. But the thing you send out there, it has to be incredibly light. So it weigh about one gram. Okay. One gram.

It's about... What on earth would weigh one gram? Well, a very small chip. Chip. Yeah. Yes. And that will be at the heart and it will sort of send the solar sail

to the next door neighbor star system. And then you can actually see. And things we might be able to get the answer is, is their life out there? But the thing is, because it's sending something so small, I know. It's funny. I think it's too many thoughts. As humans, we don't want to be alone. We want to find life.

There's lots of research that has been done. What's so funny? Because we're cup half full people. We're assuming that we find life and they're lovely. I know. And they're going to go, hey, come over. Come a cup of tea. Have some of our technology, yes.

We'd love to meet you. Yeah, like, what are you? Although, you know, nobody knows. No. But this is, I think that's what's so exciting, the Great Unknown. And, you know, the universe is that. Yes. Oh, yes. The ultimate exploration.

How much do we know about the universe? Oh, okay. One of my favorite examples is that we only know what 6% of the universe is actually made of. So we see stars. 6%. I know. 94% we have absolutely no idea. And I love to tell this to the kids

because I say, you know, we need help. Come and help us because we do know what it is. And the thing is, we know it's there because its gravity has an effect. And so we can see the movement of galaxies, for instance, and they seem to have more mass in them than we can actually visualize or we can actually interact with.

So we know it's there, but we don't know what it's made of. So we call it, you know, dark energy or dark matter. Dark matter, yeah. Dark matter is just euphemism because we have no idea what it is. It's a guess. Yeah, it's just dark matter. Yeah, it's out there. We don't know what it is.

It's dark stuff. And so I love that fact. BBC. Yes. And so the fact that we don't know what 96% of the universe is made of shows. And the thing is it, but it's not surprising. We are on a tiny planet going around a fairly insignificant star. And so, and we're looking, but we're doing that, but we're looking up and trying to understand

and trying to be part of this amazing cosmos. And to me, that's just exhilarating. What do you think is going to happen and what would you like to happen over the next 10 years in terms of discovery? Realistically. Okay. Yes. Okay. Oh, see, 10 years is quite tight.

But I would love to get confirmation of, so sometimes we call, say we have biosignatures. So, and we look at these exoplanets going around the distant stars we see in the night sky. And we can, they're very hard to detect. because they don't give out light. And so we can see the effect they have on their local star. So sometimes if they go in front of the star, they'll dim the light from the star. If they're quite massive,

as they go around the star, the star will wobble and we can see the star. Oh, wow. But what's really clever is sometimes, if it goes in front of the star and it has an atmosphere, a tiny fraction of the starlight will pass through the atmosphere

and we can work out what's in the atmosphere. Yes. And by doing that, sometimes we see what we think is a biomarker. an indication of life, life as we know it. Right. But it's an indication that there is some process happening on the planet, which might be biological.

And so we are finding one or two exoplanets out there with these biomarkers. And with things like Breakthrough StarShort, if you could fly past, we might get an indication that there might be, it could be a whole civilization. I mean what's... And also, when there is that many planets and that many galaxies, like it just would stand a reason that we are. are not alone. And so it would be nice to get confirmation or sort of firmer confirmation of that in the next few years. Yeah. And I'd just chip away at some of these, you know, sort of, you know,

this dark matter, dark energy stuff where we've swept under the carpet because we don't know. Try to get an indication of what that is. But then you were talking about quantum. I mean, quantum's so exciting. It is. And the possibilities. And yeah, these entanglements and things like that. And then there's dimensions. We live in three dimensions and time. So up, down, left, right, two-throw. Yes. throughout this and time. But there's some theories that imply that there are other dimensions. What do you mean by that?

That our senses are limited to a certain understanding. Oh, we can only handle what we can see and that there might be other things in this room, but our eyes aren't letting us see it because it's too much. Well, they're in another dimension. It's like there's a wonderful book called Flatland, and it's about people who just live in two dimensions. Everybody go and get pen and paper, write that down,

now, Flatland. Yes. And so these guys live in, so they live on, let's say a sheet of paper. And yet if they come across each other, they have to sort of go around that way. And then one day a sphere visits Flatland

and it starts us off as a sort of a pinprick. It grows into a circle and then disappears. What was that? Because it's a three-dimensional object in a two-dimensional space. Oh my God, that's just fried my brain. We could be three, we live in three dimensions with time.

But maybe there's four. dimensions and find beings that are amongst us but living in other dimensions. And if we could tap into those dimensions, maybe we could transcend time. There's all sorts of things, sorry. I don't know how you even function. No wonder you're an insomnia. I'm not surprised you're not bloody sleeping. I'm not going to go to sleep tonight because of you. I'm going to be like squinting trying to see like another dimension. This episode, is brought to you by Airbnb. Now, a few weeks ago,

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Level up your business with FedEx, the new Power Move. Okay, when I sell my business, I want the best of you. tax and investment advice. I want to help my kids and I want to give back to the community. Ooh, then it's the vacation of a lifetime. I wonder if my out of office has a forever setting. An IG Private Wealth Advisor creates the clarity you need with plans that harmonize your business, your family, and your dreams. Get financial advice that puts you at the center. Find your advisor at IG Private Wealth.com. I think actually your family. family story and your beginnings were quite unique in themselves in that there were four sisters.

Yes. And you were born in the UK. Yes. But your parents were from Nigeria. And when you were four, I think it was, your family split up. Yes. And how did that end up splitting the sisters up? Can you talk me through that?

Yes. And so I have two older sisters and then there's myself and my younger sister, Grace. seat and Sue and Hal, the two elder sisters, when the split happened, this is sort of the 1970s, early 1970s. And usually I think the custody would have probably gone to my mum, but I think my mum wasn't keen on having all of us, I think four kids. And so there was decided that my two elder sisters would say with my dad and me and my younger sister, my younger sister was probably about maybe a few months old. Yeah, would sort of go with my mum. And so, yes, the split happened.

It was quite interesting because I was asked at that age, so I was four years old. Didn't really know what was going on. I mean, imagine that kind of asking a four-year-old. Yes. It's such a difficult decision. Yeah, and although I was young, I knew that whatever I said, I was going to hurt someone.

Someone, yeah. But my mum was moving into a sweet shop, and I think that did sort of entice me a little. I can't honestly, it is embarrassing to say, but it was sort of the idea of you, or a sort of sweets on tap. I think I would be exactly the same. I'd have done exactly the same thing.

Oh, that is so funny, isn't it? This idea of hurting someone is very difficult. Yes. And interestingly, my mum didn't get custody of me when my parents split up. And it was about early 70s. And it was very rare. Yeah.

And quite shocking, I think, wasn't it? Yes. Were you aware that you and your sisters had been split up? Was that a painful separation for you at the time, or were you not really conscious of it? I think I was aware. And I was, I think we were quite a close-knit family. The age of four, and that's writing the book, it's all a bit nebulous.

You're trying to remember and it's always many about feelings and gut reactions. But I think we were quite close. And I remember you Sue and Howe and I play along. And so I was aware of the split and aware not, not being in contact us regularly. and so there was a wrench there but yes but yes there was the enticements of sweets

I was with Gracie and I was closest to Gracie and so the fact that we made a sort of little unit often with four I think there's a two and a two you know you you end up closer to one sibling

and then surprisingly then you did end up living with your dad all four of you what was that like and how did that happen? Yes. It was a sort of bit of dynamics. My father didn't feel that we should be split. He felt that he had four daughters and four daughters should stay together. And so when mum was given custody of Gracie and I, he wasn't really happy with that. And he wanted to get us

all back together. And so, and also my mum had a new bow in her life. And this was a vicar. I suppose you were supposed to be quite a young vicar at that stage. Grownats always look at us. Isn't that funny? It's so funny. You see pictures you think also you think houses were enormous.

And it's tiny. Like go back and go, what? And so Barry was in the picture and mum was going out with Barry and I think sometimes I think they used to do this in the 70s but she'd go out and she'd leave Gracie and I

so my younger sister and I, at home. Alone, yeah. How old would you have been then? See, four, five, so that sort of age. And I think in the 70s people did that sort of thing. And also, I think one of the problems is I'm an insomniac. And so I just don't sleep. And so usually, you know, you put the kids to bed and they'd sleep

and then your parents might go out. Yes. But not me. And so I'm wandering around the house. And so my dad was saying, well, you know, this isn't right. and yeah if you're wandering around the house then we need to do something about this and so he said he'd sort of try and get us custody and he did this by staging a runaway and so um so i was four years old and i still remember being outside you wearing my wumble

slippers and being in my pajamas did you have wumble slippers too it's so nice it's so good i love this so much Honestly, thank you. Oh, no, thank you. Yeah, Womble slippers. You get that. And also, the state in the runaway.

It's so funny. I ran away, like, probably in Wombleslippers as well to the gate. It's a feature. If you're going to run away, wear your Womble slippers. Yeah. God. So what happened? So my dad sort of planned it that next time my mum goes out

and I'm at home alone with Gracie, that I should give him a call. And I felt we had very grown up. I was going to use the phone. I'm four years old. I can use the phone because I'm sophisticated. And so I called him up. And then soon and how are we going to come around and say, oh, mum's not in.

I'm going to take Gracie and Maggie back to my dad's place. But my dad was waiting around the corner in the car. And so we started doing this. But mum came home early. And so somehow I was outside, you know, hiding behind a bush with the wumble slippers with Gracie. And pretending, you know, sh, quiet, Gracie. And it's all like a big game. But then, but then, yeah, so soon a Hal came out after speaking to mum,

and we were whisked to Dad's place, and that was it. Custody chain. And never again living with your mum after that moment. No. So when I was older, we moved to Hastings and lived with her there with Barry the Vicar. But yes, that was years later. So you've had a lot of, I mean, what I think is interesting, and I know you're going to get this because you and I are the same general.

that what we now know to be a life of instability and unsettled, it was quite common for people to have completely chaotic lives and be pulled from Pulitzer Post because I don't think anybody thought about the impact on children. No, it's funny, no, no. It's like they'll be fine. Yeah. And it's funny, to a certain extent, I think, as kids, we are, yeah, yeah, yeah, because this is our norm. Yes.

And it's funny because writing the book, I suddenly thought, Hold it, this really was a bit weird. Yeah. But I'd never really sort of, you know, coddened on to that. Yes. It just seems, oh, that was my childhood. It was different from other people's childhood. But looking back, you think, you know, people wouldn't do that now.

No, and it's funny because my heart's slightly breaking for you. But at the same time, I can see that you are great. But look at you. Yeah. Isn't it funny? And I think it makes us stronger. Yes. And so I don't regret it.

if I had my time again I like this path and the way that life is like a marble going down and run and it takes you up different paths it's been weird and chaotic but I like where I've ended up so it's been worth it

well look at you you know it's made you you right like yes and you you yes but yes I didn't realise that you had a sort of word I like to call it a tumultuous path this way it was just a very interesting toddler but I don't I also don't think I would change a thing because I like me now.

Yes. And I might not like me now if I didn't have the childhood that I had. Yes. I just quickly want to say, because you've mentioned it a couple of times, that this book is out and Star-Chad My Life Under the Night Sky, but this is actually, you've written lots of books helping people to learn and educational pieces, but this is the story of your life. You know, we were talking about it.

being a time when you've really gone back in your memory and looked at things and how it was slightly hazy at times and you couldn't quite like you were only four you know when this was happening but how nice was it to deep dive into your life rather than the night sky like it felt so different yeah it's funny because as a child I liked to sort of a I felt I was very empathetic and I still am and very emotional. And I try to keep sort of your sort of keep it under wraps. Yes. Keep it under control.

And I think I've lived quite a bit of my life that way. Sort of, okay, keep it under control. You know, sort of get a grip. And diving into the past, you realize, oh my goodness. And there were emotions sort of welling up and almost overwhelming me. and it was a nice experience, a cathartic experience and to know that they were there and almost to take the lid off and sort of peer inside, whoa.

And so, yes, I think it was, but also very, very painful. And sometimes I'd go through something and I'd think, oh, is that right? And feelings of guilt and not so much regret, but some sometimes. Maybe I could have handled things better in various stages. of my life. But that's also nice to look at and to be able to

takes a strong person to say, actually, do you know what I could have handled that better? You know, it's not just I'm a victim, this all happened to me, it's like, oh, I, hang on a minute. Did you do anything like make amends to anybody or from writing it or kind of think, oh, do you know what,

I want to get in contact with this person and look at something again. I think mainly my mum, because I ran away from home twice and both going from my mum to my father and I wanted her to really know that I truly loved her and I love her now

that that meant a lot yeah I think so and we had a sort of few moments where we'd sort of share things and also so I ran away the first time then lived with her in Hastings then sort of ran away again and that's the time I think I could have handled things better

I have a habit of you covering my ears and going la la la la oh my gosh and just thinking about the road ahead. I think we all do that a bit sometimes. Yes. But also I think sometimes it's looking back and thinking at the time, this was probably the best decision out of a...

It's handling it. Yes. But yes, and so I think we've reconnected, and I like that. And also sometimes I thought I was totally out of contact with her. And she found some letters I had written to her. Are they too? No, no, they are so nerdy. Dearest mother.

I do hope you're looking after you or something. Oh, my. goodness. But you know, wasn't that lovely we'd write letters? Yes. And something that your mum could keep in a bedside table reference and look at. Yes, because if it was an email or something like that or WhatsApp, I don't think. Wouldn't it?

Wouldn't it be? Wouldn't have been there now? And so, yeah, and I wasn't even aware of them. But then, you know, the hating, oh, yeah, I remember doing these. So how did you go about, because I know that you, there was a choice for you. you quite young actually to stay in the UK and go into boarding school education or to go back to Nigeria and Gracey went back to Nigeria. She did, yes. So what made you choose here and what made you choose to go to boarding school? Because how old were you then? That's six. Six to seven.

Maggie. Like it's the kind of thing as a mother that would seem so hard. Yeah. So to to to to let your kid go, but you wanted to go because it meant you could stay here? Yeah, and also, but my sisters had gone before me. So Hal was the pioneer. Okay. And she was the next one up. And the sister, I sort of...

How much older was you? So Hal is probably four, four, five years older than me. Oh, okay. So quite like a big girl. Oh, yes, that's it. It's far more sophisticated. Okay. I loved reading.

And I used to emulate her, including her writing. Which, as a dyslexic, was terrible. it threw in all sorts of errors in mind. But yes, because Hal was sharp, sophisticated, clever. And so I wanted to be like her. And she got a scholarship to go to a boarding school. So I thought, oh.

And then Sue followed and went to boarding school too. And I was next in line. And so I was quite young. So Sue and Hal both went into secondary school. But because I was younger, I could go at sort of primary level. And it just seemed like an adventure. although I knew I was going to miss my family especially my dad

because we were so close were you? Oh yeah one day he said that he said I said daddy are there any pictures of you when you were a child

he said oh yes I've got one upstairs come upstairs so we both ran up the stairs and he sat me in front of the mirror and said that's what I look like just like you and I cried and I was so proud

I was so proud It got embarrassing. I started sort of shaving my hair to try and look like him. Like it. I know. Daughter, Daddy. Yes.

Yes. Also, what a great dad to do that. I know. It was magical. Oh, my God. That is so magical. What a sensitive and beautiful way. Yes.

Wait, show you that. And how much he knew it would mean to you? Yes, yes. Wow, you're talking about empathy. Yes. He sounds incredibly empathetic. And I think I learned that empathy from him. Yes.

And it's funny, because being neurodiverse, I think it can give to heightened empathy. And I think he was too. I think he never knew, but he was probably dyslexic and all of that. But yes, and so he was empathetic. And so we were like kindred spirit. Oh. And when you were talking about your sisters getting places in this school and it being difficult to go, or one of them got a scholarship, yes. And you were, you were dyslexic, so you were struggling with the academia side of it, but you were clever. How did you get into this boarding school? Like, was there an exam or something that you had to pass?

Fortunately not. We went and did a series of interviews and so my father would take me to a lot different school. And I bet you perform. brilliant. Actually, you see, yeah, in those sort of one-to-one talking. Yeah, I mean, oh my God, mega, you blow my mind. I'd be like that. She's in, she's in. Well, actually, there wasn't a few moments,

because I used to love really hot tea with sort of tiny amounts of milk and lots of sugar. Hot teachers. I'll be like that. Steady on, Maggie. Jeez. It's been a while. Yeah.

You're hot teachers. In primary school. but yeah. Hot tea. Yeah, hot tea. Tea, yes. And so I used to put, you know, a heap about five teaspoons of sugar in.

Me too. And then sort of say, yeah, my teeth are a testament to that. But then stir and drink it. And one day, I did this at an interview. And my father sort of looked on and they put, you know, five teaspoons, stirred it, lick the spoon and then just banged it on the table.

And my father's at least said, Maggie, next time you go to a school, maybe, yeah, not five sugars and don't lick the spoon. I wasn't wasting a trot. It's so cute, isn't it, when you think back? I mean, you were six, you know, like you were so little. Like, how are you supposed to know? It's such a sweet picture that you're painting,

and your dad just watching you just going, you're going to have a word with her about that. Oh, Maggie. But yeah, not angry, not sort of a, not fierce about it. Maybe don't lick the spoon then. So what was it like? I did want to ask you about you being born in the UK to Nigerian parents in the late 60s. What was that like as a young black woman growing up in an area?

And did you experience racism like on a daily basis? And what was school like for you in the end in terms of that? It's quite interesting because a home, my father, I think, definitely saw the UK as hostile. because when he came over, I suppose, sort of late 50s, we came along later, he felt, you know, no blacks, no dogs, no Irish, publicly in windows. And there's legislation against things like that now, but that's what was the norm back then, yes, yes.

And things, yeah, I find it hard to envisage living with that sort of confrontation. And so when we were at home, it was sort of, you know, be careful, yeah, because the outside world is hostile. and almost they're out to get you. And so at school, people, we know, you say, yeah, why don't you go back home? And it took me a long time to realize it would be a home. I am home.

Yes, this is the only home I know. Could I ask you something? Just because I don't know much about Nigeria. I know a bit more about the West Indies. In the West Indies, they were kind of taught as a British colony that, like, Britain is waiting for you. It's welcoming. We love you.

Come over. Windrush. Like, everybody come over. it's going to be great. Was there something similar happening in Nigeria? Yes. And if you look at the Nigerian education system, it was very much based on sort of the colonial views. And so I think people sent, you know, Christmas cards with snow on it.

No one had seen snow in Nigeria. That's so mad, isn't it? Yes. And so it's sort of, you know, superimposing a culture on another culture. And the other culture is sort of thriving underneath. But it's sort of, you know, this is the norm. This is the way. Yes, God.

It's so confusing that for a kid. Yes. And so, but when my father came over, I think he was expecting, you know, to be embraced. Yes. And because, you know, we were colonies and there were people coming over. They were inviting people over. But when people got here, it was, oh, you're here. What are you doing here? You're taking our jobs. And so that hostility. And so he felt that greatly. Also, the cold. He had to buy a coat. And so he brought us up feeling under the impression that, you know, out there, they don't like you. They don't want you. So you have to have. to be, I don't know, not super, but just be wary of it because almost they're out to get you really. Did it frighten you? Yes, I think to a certain extent, it felt that, and it's funny, even today I'm driving around a place and I'm looking at, not many black people here. I'd better be on my best behaviour.

You would notice now, right? Yes. There aren't many places that aren't. No. It's a pretty multi-cultural, like integrated. Yes. So it's quite a thing when you go somewhere and you think, oh, like I notice it.

I think everybody notices it now because it's like, oh, this is quite weird. Yeah, it's not the norm. No. But that's transformative. Yes. Back then. Yes.

You were the only, was there a time when you were the only black girl somewhere? Oh, yeah. So boarding school. Yeah. So the only black girl in the school. And the school were lovely about it. And they were saying, you know, if there was any sort of racism or things like that, let us know straight away and we will deal with it.

Was there? No. The girls were lovely. And also it was quite an international mix because it was a boarding school. Girls coming from Bahrain and from sort of Trinidad all over the place. And so yes, I think it was a really lovely environment. And lots of people from different cultures.

I'd imagine if parents are working in like embassies or something like that and they can't. Yes. You know, they can't have the kids at home or something. like that. Yeah, or we're travelling with work. And so many kids sort of flew abroad. They were schooled in the UK but flew abroad during the holidays.

So, you were a girl, you were the only black girl in your school and you wanted to do science. You're going to be standing out here. Yeah, when you put it that way. But was it quite,

because I can see, you're a very confident person. Was it quite nice standing out. It's funny. It's because I think when I'm not standing out, I think, oh, oh, dear, how about me? I'm here. Hey, it's Maggie, guys. And so I think there's that part of me, but I think it's sort of a theatrical part, a performing part. And so, and so, yes, I do, I think I don't mind being in the limelight.

Yes. And I think to a certain extent I do crave it, which explains quite a bit of my career, actually. And so and I say that to people. If you're going to stick out, just make it sure you stick out for something good. And so, and utilise it to your advantage. It doesn't have to be a negative. Oh, I'm the only. Yeah, I'm the only.

A, they need me because I'm the only, so I'm bringing a different perspective. And B, it means that actually whatever I do, they're going to notice. Which is great. Yeah. I think I have a tendency to flip things. If I see a negative, how can I see it as a positive? Like, I love public speaking. As you can see, I love chatting.

And sometimes I get nervous. And I think, okay, am I nervous or am I excited? Because if I'm excited, I can lean into it. I say that all the time because it feels the same. It is. It's the same as adrenaline, the rush and everything else. But it's a different mindset. Yeah, I'm excited.

and they're not going to go and do this. Rather, oh, I'm nervous and then you're on the back foot. So I think, yeah, we can flip things so often. And now I'm trying to use it more and more in my everyday life. It's like, oh, I don't like this, but why don't I like this? And maybe I can like it. Is that not just one of the brilliant benefits of getting older? Yes, yes.

Changing a perspective on life and how we look at it. Yes, and knowing that you can do that. And it's acceptable. And it's not about compromise. It's just about a viewpoint. And it's a viewpoint that makes it better for me. And hopefully other people as well. But yes, it's a win-win.

Yeah, what's interesting is what's better for you is better for other people in ways, isn't it? In society, like you're better. You can spread it, spread that love. Yes, and connect better. Yeah. I just quickly would like to finish on talking about your Barbie. Oh, yes. Because this is really special.

And I want to ask you how it happened. And yeah, just tell me the story behind that. And then also your other barbie, because I love this story of the two. Yes. So it was 2023, which was the year of the Barbie movie. And I was contacted by Mattel. Yeah.

And I thought, oh, I've never worked with them before. But they said that every year they take six women from across the world who they see as role models. And they will make a sort of a customized Barbie often. Like even just that makes you want to cry. Didn't that make you want to cry? A role model, six women from across the world. No, but Maggie, like that is mega.

And the thing is, but it's almost hard to comprehend. Because in all of these situations, I think, have they ever heard of me? Exactly. Well, yes, I'm just the one that goes around blubbing about science. And so, but suddenly you think, my impact is bigger than I realize. It's like having a bigger footprint than I realize. And so it was just magical.

And so they said, okay, well, if you're happy, too right, I'm happy. What, do I want a Barbie made of me? Let me think about it. I'm a bit busy at the moment. And they said, okay, we need photographs of you. And so I got my daughter. And she said, yeah, Laurie.

She's the light of my life. And she said, wear your favorite outfit. And what we'll do is we'll take photographs. and then we'll send them to sort of a Mattel headquarters and we will make you into a Barbie. I want to show this camera. I'm going to show this camera. So yeah, it's my favourite space dress.

This is a dress that's covered in moons and stars. I love the fact that they've got your purple hair. Yes, and it's in twists as well. And in twists as well. Oh my God, that's so good. The attention to detail was amazing. It's amazing. I'm wearing trainers because that's my comfy footwear.

Love it. Love it. And also your jewellries. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. So what was that like when you received that?

So I was quite nervous. Yeah. Because they sort of talked up the images and sort of went away. And then I was thinking, you know, what if it doesn't look like me? What if I don't like it? And you were going to sort of do a big reveal in front of their press. And so I was there with the cameras. Oh, my God, of course.

Oh, no, that's awful. Imagine if you didn't like it. Oh, yeah, lovely. I always think it's like getting socks for Christmas. Yeah. Oh, great. But worse, because you've got to go in front of the world's press and pretend you like it.

Yeah. Because they've gone to all that trouble. Yes, and I think it was so much. But they did live here. And I think, I thought, she's gorgeous. I know. And I always say, she looks like me, but me on a really good day. And I love it.

I know. It's obviously. The me, I aspire to be. When the makeup and everything is just working beautifully. Great. Great. But yeah, it was just such a moment. magical thing to get. And it's lovely because I go out to schools and say, you know, I'm a space scientist, but I have my own Barbie.

I mean, I bet kids are like, wow. I do you know, I'm getting round of applause. I didn't really do anything, but thank you. You did. You did what you do to get here. You know what I love. It's icky guy. I'm just, you know. But tell me about Laurie as well, because I love this. And so, because I have my own Barbie and I sort of keep her at home. Yeah. But I thought she'd get lonely. Because my empathy sometimes runs over overdrive. And so I thought I don't want her to getting lonely. So one of the things Laurie and I used to do is we used to try and find Barbies that look like us.

Now Barbie, the Barbie dolls out there are so much more varied now. When I was growing up, they were very stupid. Yes. They were just a very stereotypical view. And so we found this Barbie doll, which has sort of similar hair to Laurie. And so they sit in a box together at home. because it's not keeping each other as well. It's symbolic, isn't it? It's really cute.

But I never told Mattel I decapitate their tolls because I don't know how that would go down. Between you and me. I won't tell it. Listen, I have had like too much fun. I mean, I'm sure working isn't supposed to be like this, but I have found I've found Ikego. Yes.

I've found Ikego. But I just want to tell everybody, if you want to be inspired or you want to read a book about a really fascinating life a life lived in full that's not over yet part two coming

please go get this book Star Child My Life Under the Night Sky by Maggie Aderan it's really an amazing read and I love, can I just say love the photos as well absolutely brilliant it's so so amazing Maggie, please can I hug you?

Oh no, please. Stay, stay there. I'm coming to you. I love you. I love you. Thank you. With such kindred spirits.