Begin Again with Davina McCall - Jamie Oliver: Changing The Way We Eat Didn't Make Me Popular!

Episode Date: September 18, 2025

In this episode of Begin Again, world-renowned chef and campaigner Jamie Oliver shares the real reason he has fought so hard to change the way we eat and live. Telling his life story in full, Jamie reflects on growing up in a pub kitchen, navigating school with dyslexia, and rising to fame as a young chef whose cookbooks would go on to sell millions of copies around the world. He opens up about the highs and lows of his career, from building his mentoring restaurant Fifteen to taking on the government with his school dinner campaigns. Jamie also speaks movingly about family life, his enduring relationship with wife Jools, fatherhood, and the emotional moments that have shaped him most. With honesty, insight, and passion, Jamie reveals how food became his purpose, how activism became his calling, and why creating change has always been personal. 👉 Follow us on Instagram: @beginagain 🎥 Watch more on TikTok: @beginagainpod (00:00) Intro (00:01:00) 30 Years of The Naked Chef (00:02:00) Forming a Relationship With Food (00:04:43) Jamie the Activist: How It All Began (00:07:16) Jamie’s School Years and Dyslexia (00:10:30) Where Jamie’s Confidence Comes From (00:11:55) Finding Value in Pain and Failure (00:14:58) From Public Figure to University: Studying Nutrition (00:17:24) Jamie on Choice, Food Culture, and Unlocking Potential (00:20:54) Fifteen: Jamie’s Mentorship-Driven Non-Profit Restaurant (00:33:36) Adobe Ad (00:34:45) Fifteen’s Legacy and the Power of Human Connection (00:44:08) Fame at 23: TV Stardom and Loneliness (00:47:40) School Dinner Activism and Jamie’s Support Team (00:54:38) Jamie on Jools and Family Life (00:59:01) A Memorable Moment at Fifteen (01:00:16) 25 Year Marriage (01:03:16) Surprise Letter From Jamie’s Daughter (01:06:19) Turning 50: Emotional Intelligence and Personal Growth (01:08:16) Jamie’s New Cookbook and TV Show: Eat Yourself Healthy Sponsored by: Airbnb - https://www.airbnb.co.uk/host Adobe - http://adobe.ly/Davina  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Okay, flights on Air Canada. Where'd you want to go? The Azores? For its hot springs and volcanoes? Hmm, speaking of volcanoes, what about Japan? Hmm, you know I love sushi. Not as much as I love tapas. Maybe, Majorca.

We could hit the beach, then go hiking. Hiking? Or how about a seaside stroll in Sicily? Ooh, I do love canolis. Wait, what do you think of... With a world of destinations to choose from. Good luck picking just one. Air Canada.

Nice travels. When the world turned against you, what kept you going? The truth is... If you say the word chef, we just all go, Jamie. I don't know how it's all happened, really. I mean, seeing you that first time at the River Cafe, you were actually standing in for someone. Yeah, I was never supposed to be there.

And then you fast forward to the 24-year-old that sold a million books and went really quickly from being very skin to being quite wealthy. I was really uncomfortable with it. Oh, wow. And I had money in the bank, and I just spent it all on. Everyone's looking at me going, he's either mad or genius. And I've had my fair share of failure. I think my average was probably 50-50.

You have taken a lot of flack for doing something so brilliant for us. I wanted to talk to you about school dinners. Yeah, it was 18 months of, frankly. But then the minute that all the naysayers saw that, everyone changed within 10 hours. Oh, wow. I'm very grateful for Jules. And our 25-year journey of marriage,

she's definitely there are. Life's a bit of a numbers game. And you've got to have a go. Otherwise, you never know. First of all, I want to say, I'm so excited to have you here. We, collectively as a team, I don't think we've ever loved a guest more like we are. Oh, really? Yeah, we're actually obsessed with you.

Because you've been, you're part of the furniture. Like, you are in our DNA. You've been part of our lives for so long helping us. I think it's nearly 30 years. I mean, it's. It's amazing. And not only that, but I think if you say the word chef, we just all go, Jamie, that's amazing. I don't know how it's all happened, really.

I do. Yeah, I do. Please tell me, because I'm trying to work it out. You're lovely. Oh, thank you so much. I think that's the bottom line. You're good at what you do, but you're a really great guy with a good soul. Thank you.

That's what I see in you. Thank you. I appreciate that. I mean, I think like using a trade or a hobby or something to try and be optimistic and shine a light on things that are joyful, I mean, food's great like that, really. Food means so many things and can mean so many things. Infinitely, really, isn't it? From the table to what happens around the table, to what you eat, to how you eat, to, you know, is it for fun? Is it for comfort?

Is it for, you know, medicine? is it, you know, like, it's just a powerful thing. And I just didn't realize how lucky I was when I grew up in the industry. You know, that was, when most kids kind of wake up in the morning and went downstairs to the front room, mine was a kitchen. Literally went down the stairs and you opened a little door and it was a kitchen. So that was my growing up in a pub restaurant, that was my childhood, really. I thought it was normal, but of course it's not normal.

It is interesting, I think. is that I do feel like understanding food is it is a gift and do you either have it or you haven't and it isn't necessarily something you can learn I think some people have the gift. I think there's definitely like a personality thing

where you have the confidence to own it and all it is is a selection of principles really and processes and it's not like one giant club. It's lots of little bubbles of information. Do you know what I mean? So if your kids have got the confidence to own that thing and then tweak it and play with it and then put it and die with it and have I got this much money or that much money, it doesn't matter. You know, have I got this or that? It doesn't matter. Swap it out. Put that in. It's hot. It's cold. So I think that having that confidence to own it is, I think, partly their

personality and mainly their personality. It says quite a lot about the way they look at life, probably, I'm guessing. Yeah. My sister's very similar. Is she? Yeah, very much so. She's a great cook and she just owns it. She makes it hers.

And of course it's the owning of it. Because, I mean, whether it's music or art or many things, like there's like there's a right and a wrong way, but then really that's kind of a bit subjective some of the times or most of the time. So really it's about how, you know, if you've got an artist that's very famous, that's technically doing something wrong, but owning whatever they call. Do you know, they own it? Yes.

So I think that's making for. food work for you is the Holy Grail. And you can teach that to kids really young. I mean, that's partly why I'm, I know I'm a bit of a broken record, but I'm going through a phase at the moment thinking that our kids deserve, all kids, British kids, well, they deserve, we need to reimagine home economics. Yes. And if you look at what's really stitching up Britain right now, it's diet-related disease

is really put in this country over the edge. It's really breaking the NHS. It's really making us not as happy and not as well, not as optimistic, mental health, all sorts of things it's connected to. So I just, I mean, I know I'm a broken record because I cook, but I just think what a gift to give every British kid. And I think with food, what I saw in lockdown when we did the lockdown show, which I shot on my mobile phone with my wife. We were all in it together. Yeah. I, like anyone else, could only buy 80 items from the supermarket.

And like by the end of the week when we were filming, my stuff was looking tattie, just like yours. And there was that sort of look in our eyes about kind of like, what is going on in the world? What's it all about? And in a world where all our choices have been taken away and we weren't allowed out and all of that business, what we could do was choose what to cook. Yes. And I do think that food has the power to make a home feel like a home. I know it's cheesy, but I do think that, you know, yeah, when things aren't great,

cooking can really help, not just from a nourishment, nutritional point of view, but I think it centres the house. feels like a home. Makes it. I feel the home. I was just going to say that. When did, I'm so in awe of Jamie, the activist, and you keep kind of going, I'm sorry because I know I sound like a break of me.

You know, we as a nation, you have taken such a lot of flack for doing something so brilliant for us. And over time, I think now that we've, everybody's got used to, the wider kind of public have got used to, trying to think more about sugar

but you started that a very long time ago but got quite a lot of shit thrown at you for it nearly every time yeah yeah and and every time you explore a new thing that you feel you need to change so where do at what age does Jamie the activists start

like wanting to change the world or you knew that maybe you could make something better or that you saw something it's a really good question I mean I think like the the young my childhood was very standard I mean beautiful

like country BMXs go out all day in the summer holidays come back for dinner very kind of swallows and Amazon or kind of like the Goonies or stand by me it was like you know I really not in a sort of sad way

I mean I just wasn't great at school I was dyslexic so I couldn't really shine at school I loved school because my friends were there and it was a safe place, which is kind of the holy grail for learning. It's got to be safe first. But I think being in special needs and stuff like that, I just, I think I built up quite a resentment to the concept of school. Now as a 50-year-old, I see school as like one of the, you know,

the most incredible assets or weapons. You know, it's such an incredible thing to have. but, you know, it took me a while to sort of shake off, I guess, an amount of resentment about not being able to fit in. Can I ask you something about, because obviously that was at a time when dyslexia really wasn't... Yeah. Kind of respected. Hardly talked about.

Talked about at all. No concessions, really. You were made to feel stupid or, oh, God. Yeah, I mean, you just, yeah, you just, it was, I mean, again, I, it wasn't a sad thing for me. because I, my personality and I had enough confidence within myself, but I think for some of the kids, if not potentially the majority, being pulled out of class halfway through and being dragged up to the attic to be in special needs is a thing. And obviously, and picture that in a school of 800 boys. So like I say, it didn't feel bad for me, but I think it could have for others. And as I've

grown up and published and met many kids that have dyslexic and struggle at school, they've had terrible times. And since I did the documentary, you know, you learn the statistics, of course, by being dyslexic or neurodiverse anyway, but specifically on dyslexia, which is about 10 to 15% of every classroom in every school in the country, these kids get bullied more, they get kind of picked on more, they have to be defensive more, they get expelled more, they get in trouble more because they're more defensive more. They end up in prison more, 65% of people in prison that are dyslexic.

So what you see is, and it's not, they're not in prison directly because of their dyslexia, it's because around 6, 7, 8, 9 years old, they start this pattern of being defensive, being picked on. And it becomes a social pattern. And it leads to, you know,

when you follow the high amounts of dyslexic kids and your neurodiverse, of course, that get expelled and then what happens to most of those kids when they get expelled and where they spend their time and the trouble they get in. They're not meant to be in jail but they end up in large quantities in jail. So luckily cooking saved me from that. See, when I was 10, I started working at the weekends. And by the time I was 12, 13, I was doing the summer holidays too.

So I knew quite young that I didn't think I was going to be a chef, but I knew I wasn't worthless because I knew that I fit it into the kitchen and I could earn one pound 20 an hour times that by 10, you know, do the maths. It's like, you know, I always had a score in my pocket. So even from a young age, and I was independent. Can I ask you something about that? Because, you know, I was going to say to you, where did you get your confidence from?

Was there anything before kind of 10 years old, before you started working in the pub where you think, actually, do you know what, this really helped me feel good about myself? Or did it start at 10? I think confidence comes from a few places. I think I really believe. that confidence come, I've got good parents, solid parents, and they're like rocks. And I think in a way that just some of parenting is just existing and being there and being there if

you're needed, you're not always needed and they kids might not want you to fix everything. But like having great parents is without question like the foundation of your confidence. And then I think having great friends, which I did, I have beautiful friends from day one. I'm still friends with kids from primary school. I still see them regularly. I still friends with 80% of my school year at school. We've got a reunion just around the corner. Of course, experience does. And experience, I guess in some respects, is a little bit about what this is about, which is about, you know, being fully rounded, being fully or very rounded or very experienced can't just be about successes. It has to be also structured by or propped up by failure. And I've had my fair share

of failure. Like, I, you know, I think my average was 70, 30, like 10. years ago but it's probably 50-50 you know which is not great but I think it's real I think I think I think I think it is great yeah failure is so important yeah well I think like there's a certain degree of like life's a bit of a numbers game and you've got to have a go otherwise you never know so and I think failure is a has comes in various forms and shapes but it's an incredible educator I was just going to say have you learnt from your face yeah I think like you know because failure can mean different things to different people in different ways. I mean, it, you know, it could be as simple as a cut or a burn, or it could be losing something

that you've spent every ounce of your savings on and it's gone, like, you know, burnt like that. It could be letting people down. Yes. That you love. And so I think, like, failure can be very painful. And I also think that, like, as you get older, the concept of pain, pain's always seen as a negative thing. But really pain is an extraordinary gift

as a whole concept. You know what I mean? Like when you hit your foot, when you got a splinter, when you get a burn, like ow, it's negative, but it's like if you didn't have that, we'd have been dead 30 years ago. You know, so I think it's a real true gift and I think

I think trying to maybe it's me being philosophical and trying to protect myself. But I think that pain and failure is all part of of really shaping your, sort of your periphery vision and your senses and, you know, and I think like whatever is it you're trying to do, like, it might not have failed because it was all wrong.

Sometimes I failed because I was too early and people weren't ready. Sometimes I failed because I was too late. Sometimes, sometimes I failed and I got all the hard bits right and I got the basics wrong. because I spent a lifetime refusing to accept any responsibility around numbers and maths, which goes back to school. And, like, you know, like, that's, it's my issue, not the school's issue. Like, you know, I was in the worst group for maths. I didn't pass maths at school.

Like, you know, like, within, conceptually within that, yeah, I'm thick. You know, like that, I have a negative view of myself when it comes to maths. So, like, you know, when I lost my, my restaurants, you know, all the hard stuff we got right. all the stuff that most people struggle getting right, we got right. Like, we were really good at the hard stuff. And, like, it was really the basics. But, and through my inability,

and it sounds like I'm being hard on myself, but I recognize it now through, you know, my inability to exercise the demons of, like, actually, like, maybe you're not shit at that. And actually, you can retrain that. And actually, as I've got older, some of the things that have really uplifted me is, like, even,

writing this book, for instance. Like, I went, I went, I went to university like seven, eight years ago, like, every Friday I'd go to uni. And what were you doing? What were you doing? Well, I was studying nutrition. Can I ask you, why did you do that? Because, like, because my relationship with the public through publishing, so if I kind of

rewind, like, you know me pretty well now, and also, like, through the dyslexia in the school thing. Like from that Jamie and then you fast forward to the 24 year old that sold a million books and went really quickly from being very skint to being, you know, quite wealthy. Like it kind of wasn't real and I, so I

and for all the right reasons and I think partly because I grew up in a pub. Like dad brought me up to sort of like the pub serves a community in the pub. The pub's the most democratic place on earth bar none. Everyone's welcome. Rich, poor, welcome. You know, my best friends were local

travelers and cockneys, you know, there were aristocrats and business people in there, the bowl club, the tennis club. So this idea of a community and being in the centre of the community. So when the public chose to make me the person that I am today, which was, you know, essentially buying a book is like a vote, isn't it? If you look at it, if you think about it. And unlike the, if you think about how things are judged these days, and I'm trying to keep up with social media and stuff.

So it's all about likes and views and comments. And it's like, yeah, but they're all free. like when you've like when out of nowhere you've done a million books because the public have been moved by some sort of energy and like so and obviously it took me a while to work out well why why has this happened

and you could say also it's luck but when it happens again and again and again and you're 10 years in and you've done 10 million books it's like okay so it was very clear to me that I worked for the public so that's why I had to go to uni and learn the truth but also that kind of did kind of key also into my campaign side because I'd already been like 10 years into campaigning

for child health, public health, you know, a lot of the reasons that Britain is as unhealthy as it is and dies younger than it should and isn't as optimal for the last 20 years in their own mind or their own feelings or their own body or their own work is because the environment we live in is very abysogenic. It's very easy to get it wrong. It's really hard to get it right. So I think studying the nutrition,

being passionate about people and choices and the concept of choices, like the choice isn't a crap choice and the crap choice. The choice is good and bad. So I've never been about like, you know, sometimes like if the press want to like make something look a certain way,

they'll use the word ban. Like we're going to ban something. And so it's never really, although something should be banned it's always about fighting for choice and choices between, you know, red amber green or, you know, lardy

every day and healthy. Like we, you know, and even if it was a vending machine, we wouldn't want to take away like all the chocolates and the crisps because people want that. But if you're at three in the morning and you work in a corset, now you might want something that's called food.

So, you know, you know what I mean? So I kind of, I think the idea of giving people choice is right. Your mind is amazing. Like, it's brilliant to watch. I can literally see you thinking. Yeah. And it's, I mean, I keep thinking about Jules.

And I wonder about when you first got together, if she'd just sit there and go like, wow, I just love listening to you talk because you, your ideas, man. You should interview Jules. I mean, I would love to interview Jules, not joking. I mean, she's amazing. But about her as well, because you two have built, you've built an amazing life.

You've built what Trevor and Sally have done for you, you know. But beside that, I wanted to just say you, it's interesting, isn't it, how these messages that we send ourselves as kids, I was, the most frightening place for me in a room would be with clever people. I would always think I can't keep up with you. I don't know what to, in my head I was like, I am not as smart as you. And I flunked out of an A level. I took a couple of A levels.

I didn't do very well. I was on drugs. I was a mess at the time. I'm a different person to that person now. And it's like unfinished business. I'm going to go back and take one of my... Yeah, no. I think your story is a story that's very inspiring to people

because what I can resonate with you in a different way is that when you think this is it, this is me, this is what I got to give. the world is completely untrue. You're an unfinished story. And the man that sits here now is completely different to the 17 and the 10 year old that was then. I was never, I didn't grow up political or as an activist. I didn't fly any flags or sort of like chant or march. No way. I think, but I think like weirdly the sort of the concept of the pub and the community burnt deeply into my sense of right and wrong. And in the creation of 15,

I got to learn about kids like me from school. So nearly all the kids had an experience like me at school. But that was it because I was white. And at that point in my life, I came from a working class family, but we became classically British middle class. And, you know, I had kids from inner city, London, you know, abusive parents or, you know,

drugs everywhere and dealers everywhere and death threats everywhere and like 15 was real like it was proper I mean I could tell stories of all kinds of scenarios about where the young people came from

Before we go any further about that I would really like for anybody watching I mean I would say most of us will know 15 and Jamie's Kitchen but for anybody that's maybe abroad and that doesn't know you could you explain your idea behind 15 and that idea happened

and what brought you there I mean, it's really simple. Like, when I, when the public decided to buy my cookbooks, I was grateful for not worrying about the red minus number in my bank account. And I was somewhat shocked by the zeros that were in there. But I think the way I was brought up, I felt like I hadn't earned an honest pound. Really? Yeah, I was really, I kind of was really uncomfortable with it. Oh, wow.

And of course, journalists would never believe me because that are bullshit, you know, but it was really true. And so I spent all of it, like all of it, on building 15. And not only all of it, but I think for three weeks I was like a couple of hundred grand in debt. Because like the builders were fighting with the designers and it was kind of going over and I didn't understand business. And thankfully, another royalty check from Penguin. Thank you. Save the day. And we built 15 and we launched it.

but essentially it was called 15 because we took 15 kids who were unemployed out of education between 16 and 22 at the time. And I'd say like 60% of those kids came from troubled backgrounds. Now that could be life of crime, fresh from prison, it could be homeless. And then the other sort of half 40% were just regular kids that were a bit lost. And there lied the genius, by the way. Like if I'd have just got all kids that were rough, it wouldn't have worked. I never realized because when you get any group of people, 10 to 100 to 1,000, if you have children or young people that are not on the right track that are together

on an environment of change, a journey of change and transformation, if they're all from the same background, the same hood and the same chaos, they're all ebbing and flowing at the same time, right? Now, obviously, I wasn't a school or a college. It was just my world. But to them, there was a handful of adults. I know I wasn't that old, but I put counselors and people that were team leaders of the young people, the students, and I put a chef next to a student. So that was the genius. We took a professional chef and put one-on-one, 15 chefs, 15 students. And that's how we could mentor them. So we'd give them like five years training in one year. Now, even with that infrastructure, it still looked like an institutional, which it kind of is. It's like a kitchen

structure is a French regiment or kitchen, right? So it looked a bit like school. It looked a bit like college. The person that care looked like the councillor that cared at school. So although that was deeply important, the ebbing and flowing required this. Yes. And this happens from kids from all backgrounds, from all ethnic backgrounds. So clever. From, from, we had middle class kids. We had a rich kid. Like the most needy kid of the first year was a city boy millionaire's son that had spent his life bouncing from city, country, you know, Hong Kong to here to here. And every time he made a group of friends, like something would go wrong because his dad was a bit tasty. And then they just like next day they were gone. It was like chaos. So like, but he came from a wealthy background. And so

like having, you know, but most of our kids came from sort of inner city classic council estates and trouble and drugs. But it's having having the urban flow of backgrounds allowed them to self-police themselves. And that was the genius. Did you know to do that? I felt to do that. Yeah. This is, is this what you're talking about when you're like, we get things right. Yeah. That other people don't get right. Because that's actually an extraordinary thing. Because three years in, yeah, three years later, I, I, I employed like a professional person that runs social businesses. And he, he did a logical thing of getting all kids from the same background and we had so much trouble and outcomes are so much worse so it you know i had to then change things and pull back what

the best bits of what we started off with from the heart so um you know before i we'd have like a thousand kids in the early days go for 15 places so we kind of get it down in various forms to 500 to to to to a hundred and then we do taste tests with 100 just live and it didn't matter if They were food, foodie or not foodie. What were you looking for then? Because I was a sort of special needs kid, it wasn't like, and actually I had dinner with a student just two nights ago. And he was like, you know, he's from Ireland and he was like,

Jamie, like, I didn't know anything about food. And like, you gave me the food and I vomited it up in front of you. Like, but you chose me. Why did you do that? I said, because it wasn't about you, like, we were challenging you with textures and flavors and it didn't matter if you liked it or did like it or didn't like it. What I was interested in is what did you taste. why did you hate it? What made you throw up? But I'm really curious. Was it the texture? Was it the way it went down the back of your throat? So then when you say, well, what do you like? And, you know, kind of a shepherd's pie, you know, okay, well, what do you like about it? Well, it's nice. But really, what do you like about it? Well, what's the bit? Well, what's the bit? And then finally, like, I would just go mining for them saying, I like the bit where the gravy kind of goes around the corner and sort of blips up and kind of you get that crispy bit. And like the potato is different there than it is there. And it is there.

like, yeah. You know, so, okay. So, like, now we're tuning into that. So you're in, like, you know, so it was. Oh, my God. Yeah, it was like. It must be so exciting when you see someone, you go, yeah, they've got the thing.

Well, then I had like 50 of those. But then because we were working with quite, some of them were like lively and from lively backgrounds, we take them to Wales for two days. And I just needed to make sure, like if they were too physically violent or bullies, like I knew that was beyond my funding because I was the only one funding me. At that point it was 25 grand per student. By the time we finished 17 years later

it was 40 grand per student. The government gave me nothing. So the only money to pay for that came from the profit we made on the plates of food that we sold. So, you know, it was an interesting one. So two days we'd taken away like team building, building bridges.

It didn't matter what it was. They just thought we were testing them on that. It was nothing to do with that. We were just watching from the fire going, that's the second time an hour that he's threatened to smack someone that's not going to work. Okay. You know, and I mean, we had

young people that came from very famous gangs, drug gangs. And it was such an education. And it was so interesting because like what I was trying to do was create a place of safety second and third and fourth chances. And although we had extraordinary,

I mean, my life is generally surrounded by extraordinarily women and largely extraordinary women, but it was very key that the men that were there were really great men and really beautiful men and men that had the right relationship with masculinity and vulnerability. And the reason that was is because the pattern of young people that we were with came from largely fatherless families, which probably isn't surprising. But like, this is something. So, you know, you're trying to, you're trying to create that and yeah and then like for some of them um i i it was an education for me because i didn't realize in into family jealousy i'd never seen it in my life oh wow it wasn't the concept that i

knew existed so when you have a child a teenager that has been in chaos and trouble and very quickly they're being because we've a with let's let's say it's probably a wrong way we're a young person that's on the wrong track it's i can promise you it's very easy to fix them. With some consistency in a bit of time and second and third chances and lots of safety and inspiration, like they change very, very consistently quickly. But sometimes the biggest danger to them was their family. It's very hard.

I don't think I could legally say that. Sometimes for a proportion of our young people, my biggest objective was to keep them away from their parents. Yeah. Or their uncles, all their brothers or sisters. or their neighbours. Because if I could... Yeah, and so it was really interesting.

So this sounds like slave labour, but like there's a theory to this. So I used to push them about... We used to do about 65 to 70 hours a week of good learning and hard work. And so the long weeks gave me a few things. The long weeks gave me the ability to... Their teaching and learning progression was really fast. So they could learn twice as fast. as everyone else because they were doing twice the hours as everyone else.

At the same time, we could kind of like indoctrinate them in a different way of thinking, which was a loving, positive way and community. And like, oh, like, it's not like, I thought that was normal, but this is much more normal. Oh, and it's consistently normal. And then also, when they went home, they were knackered. If they went home with energy, they'd get in trouble again, certainly in the first five months. So, yeah, learning that parents were jealous of their kids, that was a massive shock to me. So that was 15, best thing I've ever done.

What was life like for you at home? Because I'm imagining that 15, yeah, 15 took up a lot of your brain and your heart. Yeah, it was an interesting one. I mean, I probably should talk to Jules more about it really. But because I lived it, we just did it. Yeah, got on with it, yeah. Setting up 15, doing. So, like, lots of people can have good ideas.

But, and I kind of cheated the system because I had the money, right? So I always, why did you do it? I always said, I'll say something very quickly. Sorry, got to interrupt you there. I feel like that's not cheating the system. That's just doing something absolutely heroic. Yeah, well. You used your own money to do something extraordinary for so many.

No, that is true. But the reason I use the word cheating in the system is, and it's something that I've learned, looking at me now, best bits and worse and sort of then best bits and worse different people like we were talking about like when they said well why did you do it? I said I wanted to

I could and I did. What do you mean? Why did you do it? I wanted to I could and I did. So I want to so I think there's a lot of young people with great ideas and like oh my god the beautiful thing about young people is like they're even if they're green like it's just their raw ideas

And you know what I love? Full of hope. Not smashed by kind of like balance sheets and conservatism and sort of like realism. It's like, no, no, we're going to create a new realism and that's what 15 was that. And then, so then normally those young people can't do those things because they couldn't. I could. Like I had money in the bank and I just spent it all on doing it. I didn't give a shit what anyone said.

It was going to tell me what to do. I'm doing it. And everyone's looking at me going, he's really doing it. So then of course, all the people. that helped me open it, like the genius sommeliers and chefs. Like we started drawing like magnet, all the best people going, he's either mad or genius. It's like, so it was a really interesting. It was almost like creating a new type of music.

Yeah. It was like, wow. And then of course we didn't have profit. We had the young people. Yeah. So it was like, for me personally, it was like nearly everything I've ever done, if not everything, there's some sort of, what's the word? there's some there's a currency and there's a kind of exchange you know and at 15 it was there's nothing it was just like I have nothing you know this institution is here just for you

you are the profit I don't take a wage I'm not conflicted but I'm completely out of confliction so I'm just and then what that did was when when you've done that then the people that wanted to come and help for free and for love this is like this avalanche of people that also feel the same way. And when that sort of happens, you get something very beautiful happen. And that was 15. You are never too old to learn something new. I used to be so terrified of tech, but I started using Adobe Express, which is the quick and easy, create anything app. And it's one of our sponsors too. And I use it to tell my story my way. It's about impact. Havina? Yes. Did you mean to export this poster of Michael to such a large size?

As I was saying, it's never been easier to bring your ideas to life. Yes. Just checking these stickers that say ready to write, they're also for you too? Yes, those are for me. Merchandising is an important revenue stream. I work with Stephen Bartlett. You know, I'm an entrepreneur. Look, whatever your business, side hustle or random,

oh, I've got an idea a moment is, Adobe Express gives you everything that you need to design it, share it and make it real. So head to adobe.ly slash divina to get started. Did she really use the generative AI, did you and bigettes? She loves Adobe. Out of the people that went through 15 and, I mean,

you were talking about having dinner with one the other night, like, could you tell me a story like that you were just absolutely thrilled by or somebody that you've stayed in touch with and you think, wow. On a weekly basis, my life is enriched by young people that I could bond with them on a level that was very rare because I was able to unconditionally give them what they needed. And it's the best medicine to all the shit that I have for making other failures. When I'm at my lowest, that top. I mean, I'll show you. I'll probably start crying.

I'm just thinking about it. It makes me have to go into Instagram. So that's what he posted two days ago. Oh, yeah. I think you can read that. That's fine. So he's a really talented chef. He's come a long way.

He's come from like a life of crime. And now he's sort of like doing great things in food and running his own business, got his life in order. And, um. Amazon presents Jeff versus Taco Truck Salsa, whether it's Verde, Roja, or the orange one. For Jeff, trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette with a flame thrower. Luckily, Jeff saved with Amazon and stocked up on antacids, ginger tea, and milk. Habaniero?

More like habanier, yes. Save the everyday with Amazon. I mean, you can read that out. Can I read it? Well, if it's useful to you, you can read. It is. Yeah, yeah. All of this happened because Jamie Oliver saw something in me that I never recognised.

Writing this makes me feel emotional and very happy. Nothing will be possible without this man here as I celebrate another great achievement. I owe this man everything for the investing he made in me. I came off the roads and became something to be proud of. Oh, while being a private chef, I mentor kids. who have similar backgrounds to mine, carries on. Pass it on. It has been an incredible summer for my cooking business

and I'm thrilled with all the achievements that mark the beautiful end of this year. Oh, that's so good. You can tell from the rest of the dialogue that the concept of being a mentor, also you can be a mentor-e. Yes. So like the idea of like giving unconditionally

to people, do you know what I mean? So the thing is, so like, who's the medicine and what's the antidote? Do you know what I mean? So the thing is, it's like, obviously that kid, and there's many of them, 480 of those young people, and I interact with hundreds of them regularly. So obviously, I gave them a lot, but you can kind of see, like, you know, I don't really have that many people to talk to either. So it kind of goes back the other way.

So it's a beautiful, it's a beautiful thing that you can kind of earn, I guess, isn't it? It's sort of earning people's trust. And, you know, and I think especially if you're in the public eye, it's very hard. I mean, God, I mean, God thank the fact that I knew Jules before I got famous. Because I never would have known if she actually really loved me. Do you know what I mean? Like, so it's, or certainly, I would imagine it's tougher to find true love if you're well known or people have a presumption of something. I think, you know, but ultimately on a human level, it's about, it's about this, isn't it? It's about

connection. And obviously that connection is through 15, through teaching and mentoring and transformation from one place, which is really rough. You know, when you talk to these young, these young people, a lot of them represented the very worst of what we read in the newspapers. And then you can take them into a place where, you know, a handful of them have got Michelin stars. And as you can tell from that young person, they have a car, they have a house, they have consistency, they have a stable family, you know, they might not have had the life when they grew up but they've learned that you can create this, you know, what good looks like. But also it comes back.

And I guess even down to sort of like the cookbooks or the programs, it's trying to create excuses for human interaction, especially now in a life of digital madness. And brilliant as well. But you know what I mean? Like bringing people together. So I think that's what we're trying to tune into really is like, and as cheesy as it sounds like the act of cooking, you can be healthier.

You can save money. It kind of makes a home a home. Like, you know, but it does. But even the concept of a table. I'm coming together. Yeah. I'm bringing people together for a meal to actually sit down. It's everything so fractious.

It's so easy to, for somebody to eat upstairs, somebody else to eat in another room, but the joy of eating together. I mean, I'm half French. So my half of my life was in a place where it was, it wasn't an option. You had three meals a day around a table and everybody sat down together and of, you know, TV dinners were not, I think. Yeah, and the French were interesting because if you look at them as a country, not as an area or, I mean, I've spent years going around the blue zones where people live the longest. But if you look at France as a country, they do much.

better than most as a country. And they suffer from way less like sort of peaks of like diet related disease, cardiovascular, literally. They kind of buck quite a few things and it's unusual. But if you look at them culturally, not through law or legislation or banning anything, culturally, they protect an hour and a half lunch. Pretty like religiously. Like free courses in schools, factories, like posh working places, not posh working places. Like it's lunch. So that I did. And, you know, even just yesterday I was working with a scientist. And they've proven that taking time with your food means you absorb more of the nutrients. You know, it's healthier.

Your body, the food releases itself to you. So that's putting time over eating is better for you. Yeah. Rushing lunch is not healthy. Yeah. Rushing lunch will help you get fatter. rushing lunch will only help, you know, create scenarios that are, they're not healthy for you, more inflammatory. So being together is anti-inflammatory, you know, be like taking your time, chewing the foul.

And what's brilliant about the blue zones where people live the longest is science can't really work out exactly why these areas where people are a lot more old people that live, flexible, productive, joyful, life. older, like, what is it? Is it the food? Of course it's the food. It's the balance and bits, but it's also, they've got more, they've got more best friends. They have, they have more time to chat. They have a faith, not the same faith. So, you know, it's, yeah, I kind of like, I like the beauty that it's not just the food or the flavour, but it's also how it makes you feel, how you take the time to eat it. You know, that, that makes the world of food even more magical and the possibility is more endless. You were talking about how much it meant to you

not just to give but when you receive, you know, you get us. Yeah, I mean I receive quite reluctantly, but I, but also I kind of... But I think there's something... But also I get vulnerable to, I get lonely too and there's lots of... I was going to just say that, that loneliness. Yeah. I mean, what I thought was interesting was seeing you that first time at the River Cafe,

bless Ruthie Rogers. Love her. And you, I mean, talk about a sliding doors moment because you were actually standing in for someone. Yeah. You weren't supposed to be there that day. I was never supposed to be there that day. But the camera points at you and I'm just like, you are on.

I mean, it feels like you'd been in your bedroom practicing, cooking, talking to a fake camera fit years. Had you ever done that? No, no, no, no. You were so good. The TV camera were annoying and they were in my way and it was a really tight kitchen and I'm like, oh, for the love of God. But what I had done is I've been cooking since I was 10.

So a lot of people at the time were like, oh my God, like the close-ups of your hands making that thing was like an old man's hands making it. And then it palmed up to you in a sort of like, it's like a set of lips and sort of like some mad like indie Britpop haircut. It's like, but of course I was very young. I was like, I was very young at that. How old were you? 23, I think then.

Because that's quite, fain is quite isolating. There probably weren't that many 23-year-old famous chefs at the time. There's jealousy. There's professional jealousy. You saw with your kids at 15, like family,

I mean, obviously not in your family, but there can be friends' jealousy. It's like it's a lonely place. Is that something, because I've always called myself an island. I feel like I'm an island. It's okay, I'm not complaining, but it's sometimes I need to build bridges to places. Quite a nice island, though, I'd say, you know, I call me and Michael are islands.

Yeah. And I call him Ibitha and I'm Formantera. And we've formed an archipelago. Yeah. And we've built a bridge. Yeah. But we're the same sort of person, and I feel like you are similar in that the way that you were was quite isolating in a funny kind of way. Yeah, it didn't feel like that in the beginning.

because it was so exciting and such a shock. And also that time, which was amazing for me then, was also amazing for you then. Like I was watching you doing the dating show around. Streetmate. Yeah. Amazing. And also groundbreaking in its own way, like running around.

Yeah. Brilliant. I love that. I got to bring it back. And but yeah, I think it was like, Call Britannia was the era. And like there was so much happening in music and gig venues and art and the modeling.

industry in the fashion industry. So really I was sort of the last bit sort of sprinkled over the top of that and food or young people and men and food were kind of getting brought into the equation. But I think after like a couple of years of just the shock of it all, I think

then you become more like an island and you sort of think, oh God like who do your trust and bits and pieces and you kind of forget that you're you but of course the light, you know, if I walk into a cab or a room like you can get all sorts of reactions. And also you're quite an open person,

which is a brilliant, lovely thing, but it's also quite dangerous because you end up talking to somebody and saying something back in those days when it was, you know, scandals and papers non-stop, it was quite a hard time. I wanted to talk to you about, you know, your foray into activism around school dinners.

and the kind of, you know, you were doing something brilliant then and I think it's easy with hindsight now, everybody can see that, but actually you got a lot of flack. Yeah. What made you want to do that and what kept you going when the world seemed to turn against you and you were doing something so brilliant? Yeah, I think, I guess what I was learning quite young,

and thank God I was quite young, because I was just stupid enough to do it. Like there's a couple of things I was getting right. Like first of all, I was following my instincts. Like that's not right. This is wrong. We should try and do something about it. And I had this new vehicle called the TV or a documentary or something like that

to be able to tell stories. And it's obviously a massive gift and a brilliant place to tell stories and try and empower the public to see things differently and maybe go on a bit of a journey with you. At the same time, I'd started gathering. We were talking earlier about, oh, you're surrounding yourself by some amazing women. And I surround myself always did from day one. As soon as I could afford it, like just amazing, generally women, 96% women.

Don't know why. It's not really intentional. But I think it's partly because I work really well with women, but also because I think in our core, we're a very maternal business. And like everything good I've ever done has been powered by women. and together we come up with these ideas and these campaigns and bits and pieces. And when you're doing those campaigns, it is really easy to give up. As soon as you start getting three or four papers giving you a whooping for like weeks,

then it's definitely easy to tap out. How did you cope with that? Because I had great people around me going, no, no, you ain't tapping out. We're going to do that. So like, you know, I've got quite a large amount of people that would take bullets for me. I think I'm one of those people. I'll bless you. I feel like I would.

Well, you've helped me very much in the past with various things that I've done. And it really helps. So I guess what I'm trying to say is like I'm not, I'm as fallible as anyone else. I have good days and bad days. Like generally I'm a glass half full. Generally I'm very positive. Generally I've got very good energy. But also sometimes I get like down and low and I just.

want to tap out. So you have to surround yourself by people that can comfort, support, protect, and allow you not to tap out because it's not the right thing to do. So I, you know, I kind of, yeah, I think good people, shared values. Like, I know I employ lots of people that could probably do better working for other people, but probably earn more working for other, I mean, I pay well, but like, like, they could be doing all kinds of wonderful. things but I think generally speaking most of the people that work for me do, it's a

nice job, it's a lovely place to work but we together all get to do things that make a bit of difference and change the world and make a bit of a difference and I think that matters to certain people a lot and so I've been very lucky for that but the

campaigns are tough I mean I must say we did school dinners was 18 months of my life I was still quite well-known at that point and we were in multiple schools across Greenwich and most people were most people were not helpful and that's parents grandparents kids and large enough proportion of of teachers and surprisingly probably more head teachers than less like yeah because yeah yeah and I'd give you an example, and this is not me

complaining, this is just the reality. The concept of change anywhere, but specifically in a school, but anywhere, the concept of change is really tough for people. They hate it. And it's like, no, I can't do that. We're going to do this. We're going to take this, I'm going to move it over there, and if we do that, we can change the flow

of students and we get more students through, and then we can feed more students, and then they don't have to do. We're trying to come up with solutions, operational solutions to feeding 16 under kids in 45 minutes, right? Right. So, no, no, no, no, no. mess.

And then you go down the road to a less equipped school with a head teacher that's like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And so it's really amazing for me to sort of see clearly two great head teachers, but one that was can do and one that was calm. Yes. And it was amazing because it literally came to one moment when I think it was the son wrote a piece or the Daily Mail, one of the two. And they'd just seen the first documentary and they were all in.

They were like, they loved it. It was like, really? They loved it. And it was like this big double page spread. And the minute that all the naysayers saw that double page spread in black and white, everyone changed within 10 hours. Oh, wow. After 18 months of shit, frankly.

Like, like awkward, reticent, annoying, unhelpful. So, I mean, I guess the lesson there was like, oh my God. I mean, I know it's obvious, but the power of the press. Yes. And look, it's not that me and you were going to winge about the negative. Of course, everything has a negative. Yes. But actually, the press is really useful.

It's really powerful. I've always said that. And the press aren't always going to love you and they're not going to always believe in you. But I think, like, if I've tried to not lie to them ever, and even if they don't like me, it doesn't matter. Because even if they don't like me, they can still trust me. Yes. Or believe me. So important.

So I think I really learned a lesson about like how powerful the press were to then allow me because we couldn't get anything with government. But as soon as that story ran, the teachers changed, the heads changed, the parents changed. The kids didn't change. But we could get into government in three weeks. But you know, I feel like it has changed the whole landscape of food and schools. It really has. And you know, the big thing, I was looking at dates and stuff with you.

And you did that TED talk in what, 2010? Yeah. And, you know, you were talking about ultra-processed foods. You're the OG guy. Like, you know, and look at us now. It's like become... So thank you. I do want to, I'm going to wrap up slowly here

because I want to talk about... In your own time. You and Jules. Oh my God. George is amazing. So, but you are just the most extraordinary. beautiful success story and now I've heard a bit about Trevor and Sally and how much that meant to you I can understand um how important like your whole family are you know you've got five

beautiful kids um I love Jules quite in the background and she's done that well she's the rock right yeah she's definitely the rock and she's like she's got incredible instinct she's incredibly kind very funny um but um and I and I know it's been very funny I love her to bits but you know she's also like you know she's I don't really I can't really talk about it forward

but she has neurodiversities that make her life really interesting and really challenging and of course there's positives but there's loads of things that like you know she makes us the way that we are and I'm very grateful for Jules can we just talk about how young you were when you met

18 oh my God Yeah, 18 years old And So what was it Just taught me through Meeting Jules Like what made you

What gave you The Couda Foudre Oh my goodness Well she was just Very Beautiful and pure And just gorgeous And sort of like

Natural And just like I don't know Just quite quirky Um Quite clumsy And a cute Yeah very cute

Very cute And she was like She was always like the odd dresser. She, like, she wore really cool clothes, like bonkers stuff that really our part of Essex wasn't really ready for it. Like, she'd always have the piss taken out of her. Then, like, literally about four to six months later, they'd all be wearing it.

Like, do you know, like, it's those early, yeah, super early, yeah. I mean, I remember going on dates with her and we'd go past, like, building estates and there'd be all the geysers out of the scaffolding. And they just look at her and they go, oh, yeah. And they've got these long legs and these big boobs. and they're like, and all they could say was fashion, fashion. It's like, is that the best you can do?

It's like they just didn't know. She just bath, because she had kind of like, have been working in Japan and she was like in some mad outfit. She looked brilliant. But yeah, she's very cool. And an amazing mum. I mean, honestly, I don't really know Jules that well, but I know a tiny bit about like your family

and I've heard you talk about and I've been to your house and everything. And five kids in itself is, but your kids, I feel like, are a team. And, you know, when you were talking about inter-sibling rivalry, for me that would be the most painful thing. Well, I think that kind of carnage and that chaos just happened from not a stable, safe family. And it doesn't take much really for us to revert back to animals. Do you know what I mean? It's sort of like, so I think I, when you come from a loving family that's secure,

you don't realize that you don't know that there's a whole set of emotions and scenarios that actually exists and is actually normal to a certain proportion of people around that sort of interfamily jealousy and, and just like, and you, I, and obviously, I guess I can call myself an expert because I did it with, you know, hundreds of young people. you are. But I saw the same patterns happening every year. Yeah. So, you know, obviously from, you know, we had like a duty of care to our young people, but sometimes you have to sort of say, you've got load of time to love your mum, right?

We need to keep you as focus on home and it's far away from family for six months. If you get over the next six months, you'll be in a different place and you'll be able to cope with this stuff that's going on. And so that was a real fascinating, you know, and it did. And it was able to work. And I have to say, like, I'm very proud, like, going back to 15, obviously. We were graduating 80, 85% of all our students. And, like, six years later when we did a check, the same proportion was still in the industry.

And although we trained them all the same, they all went into different parts of the industry. Some Michelin, some delis, some pizzerias, some posh restaurants, some on boats, some in other countries. I mean like, I remember like when I took a couple of students over to L.A. They didn't even have passports because Jennifer Anderson phone up and wanted me to go and Brad Pitt was a fan of Naked Chef. And I was his 40th birthday present. So Jen phones up, the restaurant, keep putting the phone down on her because we didn't believe it was her. So obviously eventually through agents and stuff. but she asked if I could cook his 40th birthday

and I'm like, yeah. So I took two students with me. Can you imagine? Never flown in their life. Virgin upper class. In the pajamas before they've even taken off at the bar for the whole journey. Cooking in L.A. for like, you know,

all the people you would imagine around the table. Amazing. Oh my God. How brilliant. Yeah, it's a good time. And we had it for 17 years. 17 years we had it. It's a good go, good innings.

I really want to finish on the idea. I want to just big up Jules as well because there is something like very confident. You've got to be a confident woman to be married to a man who's so hugely successful and that you also big her up. Well, I probably haven't got as many opportunities to big her up really. This is a really nice one. Yeah, good. And she deserve to be big stuff.

Yes, because it's tough. Yeah. No, I mean, I think like living. And it's probably not tough at home, but the public perception. you know, but you are a partnership. You are a team. Yeah, no, no, totally. And I think like, and look, as happy as we are,

I think on our 25-year journey of marriage, like there's still loads more we can get right, you know. And I think there's always stuff to know right. And I think being 50 this may kind of like creating more opportunities for these kind of moments and those kind of moments. And obviously when you're in the woods with five kids, you know, whether it's nappies or sort of teenage years or sort of GCSEs How old river?

Rivers nine. So we're kind of getting pockets of freedom. Yeah, pockets of freedom, yeah. God, I bet that's nice. Yeah, it's really nice. But, like, you know, also I do feel like that I'm still getting to know Jules. That's nice. You know, I think there's, there's, I still feel I'm getting to know stuff I didn't know about her.

Yeah. How is that possible? But you're both growing. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Together. And I think, like, you know, I'm excited. to create more opportunities for nice moments and travel and little, you know, we're finding these little places where we love and we're so happy.

It's like, cool, let's do it again. Yeah. So I think life's a bit like that. And time on your own is really funny, isn't it? Because like, you get in the car and the plane or whatever and you're like, oh my God, the change is so sort of the dynamic. Suddenly is like hot and bassy and. Yeah.

So for instance, like Jules is like mad into Elvis. right, it's like, it's pretty well recorded. Like she's like, it's not a healthy relationship. So we got, we got married like all those years ago. We on a, we, then we got married again on the first like posh holiday we had. Yeah, yeah. Which was in the Maldives. And it was like, oh, that's nice.

24 years it was supposed to. And then on 25 years, we went on a road trip in L.A. to Las Vegas and then to Palm Springs. And she, she set up getting married in Elvis's the place where Elvis got married. So like three marriages. That's good. It's cool, though. To get married it, where Elvis got home. It's like, I think everyone thinks we've got a disease of marriage.

And, of course, every time you get marriage, everyone kind of goes on the news or social. It's like, yeah, that means they're getting divorced. It's like, but it's like, really? It's like your Elvis married us again. Oh, my God, that's so good. Now, listen, Jamie, I've got a little surprise for you. So, we contacted Poppy. What?

And we said, could you just like kind of just, Give us a little note to read out to your dad. Okay. She's done something kind of extraordinary, actually. All right. But I'm going to read it to you. She's quite a good writer. She's an extremely good writer.

Okay. Don't, are you going to get me in bits? I don't know. But this is, this is beautifully. Hi, Dad. Hi. When I was asked to write about the impact you've had on our lives, so many things came to my mind.

It's funny when you're, younger, it's hard to fully appreciate everything your parents do for you. But as I've grown up and started to become my own person, I've come to realize just how much of an influence you've had on me and my siblings. To put it lightly, your impact has been profound. I've always felt lucky to have your steady, unwavering support as a dad. There was never a time I doubted that I could pick up the phone and ask for your help. You've taught us to be ambitious to push our confidence, still a working process for all of us, but no one has encouraged it more than you,

to value hard work and to always stay humble. Growing up in a family as wonderfully mad and unique as ours could have gone a very different way. But the way you and mum raised us, kindness is at the heart of everything. It's shaped who we are. I know the younger ones will grow up feeling inspired by all you've done. but right now I know for certain that Daisy and I already are.

I think that's a huge reason why we've chosen jobs that reflect the values you've instilled in us. Thank you for letting us be so open, for accepting all our differences and for championing the quirks that make us who we are. Thank you for believing we're capable of more than we think ourselves and for doing everything in your power to make us the best version of ourselves. above all, I think what's had the biggest impact on me is watching your relationship with mum. Growing up with you both as a teen

has shaped how I carry myself in my own relationships. You've shown us that nothing is ever completely smooth sailing, but you both seem to weather whatever life throws your way and through all the tough times have come out stronger on the other side with lots of laughs in between. we all love you lots and are so proud of everything you're doing, Poppy. Oh, bless her. That's so beautiful.

Isn't that so lovely? What a nice surprise. And she's been ghosting me this week as well. I've messaged her three times and she hasn't replied. That's probably why. But you know, that idea of inspiring your kids with the relationship that you have is really special. Yeah. Yeah, we're very, very blessed.

But they are too. Yeah, like, I mean, it's, I think being a parent's really hard, isn't it? Yeah. And what is good and what does good look like? And I think, and then life is also really hard. And I think once you get to 40, like, you start to see and sniff a few things and you get to 50. How hard it was 50 for you? Well, I was quite excited about 50 because it feels like, I think 40 was quite hard.

because in my 30s I went to a lot of weddings and in my 40s I went to a lot of funerals and then I got used to lots of funerals and I didn't like that but I also think like if there is a good way to look at that negative more and more life becomes about different ways

of seeing or visualising or appreciating gratitude do you know what I mean and seizing the moment and also that you know even if you're just trying to make as many nice things you know like I'm pretty good but I'm not I'm I still don't you know there's things I want to do better in lots of ways and like so the little things that you do the little things you say to people is it's like having enough clarity of mind to

notice I still my my George is really good at noticing other people and their feelings and their little body languages I'm I'm okay Jamie um you're actually pretty pretty pretty good at fucking good. Yeah. I've got to tell you. I'm sorry for swearing, but you are very, you are a very emotionally intelligent man. Yeah, thank you. And I always feel like there's more to learn for all of us, but you, I mean, you've led an incredible life and you've made such a huge impact on so many people in every single way. And I just want to thank you, basically. I was laughing because I was telling somebody earlier, I think I've got 28 of your 30 books.

I honestly feel like I don't have any other books. And I'm quickly going to finish by saying congratulations on this. I think today is publication day. And this is very exciting. Yeah. So actually believe it is a really good one. Yeah. And I, you know, this is what we all want to be.

We want to be healthier and eat better. And you've made that easy for us. So thank you. from the bottom of all of our hearts. I wanted to, I want, the program and the book, I wanted to be something that, like, even if you missed it on telly, like, please, like, do the thing when they watch it on 4 or whatever,

catch that, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, because there's some really great tools to, I think if you say to a lot of people, are you all right? It's funny, we started the show, it's really unconvention. It's like, how are you? Are you all right? But no, are you really all right? Yeah.

It's like, actually, if you say it's the right person, it's like really. And I think a lot of people don't feel 100%. They don't feel 80% or 70%. Like there's a lot of people that feel very lost. And dare I say it, because culturally Britain is in its unique, brilliant but also place where unlike the French, we haven't got cooking in our genetics, as we used to have because of certain things, like the Industrial Revolution, blah, blah, blah.

But because we don't teach it at school, because cooking is this thing that feels like it's far away from us. So the cooking is hope. The cooking is choices. The cooking is this ability to control some things in your life where maybe you can't control lots of things in your life. So I really hope that people tune into the show. And I think from the book's point of view, I've tried to break down complex things into really simple ways for regular normal people to smash it from the supermarket. market. And so I really, I really like, I really like that. I mean, I think for the first time ever actually in there, there's a like, there's like a two week reboot. I think they call it

something else. They call it a Kickstarter. Kickstarter. Yeah, it's like, and I, and it sounds like a sales pitch, which it is. I'd love you to buy the book. But the, but, but, uh, I think, um, if you don't feel great if you think you can be better honestly truly um i genuinely if you can do lunch and dinner there's breakfast in there as well but i would say do lunch and dinner for a few weeks right just get a little bit of a fasting do lunch and dinner that i've they're not just nice recipes there's there's some surprises and there's some comfort things in there and stuff that you'll know but the behind the recipe and the food is chemistry yes and the chemistry is diversity and it's giving you the things that your extraordinary body needs.

And I can pretty much guarantee you if you don't feel 100%. It's because like most other people in Britain, you're only averaging two to three portions of fruit and veg a day. Yeah, a lot more. Everyone's saying eat five. All shit. It's seven to ten. Yeah, I love it.

And you'll smash that if you follow the plan. Great. And if you can do two weeks, because essentially what you're doing is. And somebody, are you saying that if they can do two weeks, they will feel a difference. Look, it's science. The chances are, right, so I, in that two-week plan, the Kickstarter, right, the diversity of proteins, carbohydrates, fibres, fruit, veg, nuts, seeds, herbs, right?

It's going to be much cheaper than getting like an app takeaway thing, whatever you want to call it. It's going to be a fraction of the price of that, okay? So you can do it, you should do it. If you can do it religiously for two weeks, I will be amazed if you don't feel invigorated. I will be amazed if you don't feel, I mean, you've got, if you want calorie deficit and you want to lose weight, fine. I don't, I don't write diet books like that. And this is not a diet book. This is, this is very nutritious food. But you've got deficit to play with. So if that's

one of your objectives, use it. Use the benefits of fasting and your body's ability to heal better and let it do and concentrate on healing better. Give your body those two meals where you're nourishing, like vitamins, nutrients, fibre, hydrating yourself. And much better to hydrate through fruit and veg than just gulloping loads of water. Do you know what I mean? I've drunk loads of water and I'm on the toilet all day. He's like, yeah, you're drinking loads of water. Like hydrate more so through fruit and veggies and food that contains 80, 90% water.

But I think if you can follow that, it will be very empowering to people. the proportion of people walking into the NHS and doctors around the country because of diet-related disease is phanom. Phenom. It's phanom. Like Britain's really unique. Like my passion is public health globally. Yes.

Right? I've been to all but one of the blue zones of the world, right? I've been up mountains. I've been on islands. I've been on peninsulas and basically where fast food hasn't got. No. And that's embodied in that book. but Britain's really uniquely bad.

Yes, I know. We're getting more aware, but it's been a slow learning. What you have to do is have control. And to have control, you need to learn a few skills. To learn a few skills, you've got to kind of follow things and have consistency. But really what you have to do is create a blue zone in your own home because you can't do your street. You can't do your town.

You can't do your workplace. No. That's a lovely idea. Blue Zone your own home. Yeah. And it rhymes. Damn it. It just flowed like that.

Yeah. Look at us. We've done a thing, Jamie, you and I. Yeah. I would like to thank you from the bottom of my heart for coming here today. Well, it's so comfortable. I love seeing you. No, blessed.

Thank you. And give the kids a hug. I will. And Jules an uncomfortably long one from me. Yeah, especially Poppy. Not especially. All of them get the same. But thanks again, Jamie.

Thank you. I appreciate it. Jamie. Happy birthday.