Begin Again with Davina McCall - Jamie Theakston: How a Cancer Diagnosis Made Me Live Life to the Fullest

Episode Date: May 22, 2025

In this episode of Begin Again, Davina McCall sits down with broadcaster Jamie Theakston to discuss his deeply personal cancer journey. Jamie opens up about the difficult moment he shared his diagnosis with his wife and sons and reflects on the impact of losing his mother and his father’s Alzheimer’s diagnosis. Through this honest conversation, Jamie reveals how these life challenges prompted him to embrace each day with greater purpose and presence. With courage and vulnerability, he shares the strength he’s found in family, love, and facing adversity head-on. 🎙️ Drop a comment: What part of Jamie’s story moved you the most? www.instagram.com/beginagain https://www.tiktok.com/@beginagainpod 00:00 Intro (00:01:09) Growing Up and Overcoming Shyness (00:04:32) Becoming a Presenter: Jamie Theakston’s Journey (00:17:07) Working with Zoe Ball and Live and Kicking Days (00:20:56) Landing the Heart Breakfast Show (00:21:59) Jamie on Meeting His Wife and Marriage (00:25:48) Facing a Cancer Diagnosis: Jamie’s Story (00:36:50) Surgery, Survival Rates, and Cancer Screenings (00:41:32) Jamie on the Possibility of Losing His Voice (00:44:47) Recovery and Planning for the Future (00:55:40) How Cancer Changed Jamie’s Appreciation for Life (00:59:47) Jamie on Losing His Mum (01:05:34) Jamie on Family and His Dad’s Dementia (01:16:10) The Future and Shifting Perspective (01:22:47) Radio Wife Amanda Holden (01:25:10) Davina's Takeaways Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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It was a lot of crying, but I was so unbelievably happy to see you. So I went to go and see a specialist, and they said, you've got cancer. We're now dangerously close to you not being able to talk. It came as such a huge shock to me. I then had to go home and tell my wife and kids. It was really hard. Early detection is so important. Our cancer outcomes at stage one are really good.

I'm a living example of that. Yes. I got a call from my sister told me that my mum had died of cancer and then my dad was left on his own with Alzheimer's. I struggled to get through it. I do want my kids to see me crying. What are you looking forward to? Just the rest of my life.

These difficult times are what is making us appreciate the future so much. I hope it'll make me be a better parent, a better broadcaster. It certainly feels like it makes me a better person. Well, Jamie, I love you. I love you. too. Jamie. Devena. For the purposes of the recording, Devena's clutching my ankle. I am, I just, it's so nice to have you here with me. And I know that you're actually quite a private person. I know you don't talk to that many people. And I sort of was wondering, like, why you said yes?

Like why do you want to do it now? What made you say yes? I'm here because I love you. And when you ask me to do anything, I'll just say yes without even thinking about it. So that's why I'm here. I listened to several episodes of your podcast on the plane yesterday. and I realized how far I am out of my comfort zone. I really feel like you've chosen the wrong person.

Are you aware of how difficult this, the next two hours might be? I listened to Patrick's episode. I listened to Andy's episode. And I was thinking, and as I was listening, I was thinking, you've, this is a bit like I've been chosen to, I've been picked to play for Man United and you haven't actually ever seen me play football. I feel like, do you remember there's that story about that guy who was George Weyer, who's a famous footballer, rang up the Southampton manager and said,

oh, I've got this, my cousin's a really good footballer, you should sign him. And they signed him and he played for them without anyone realizing he couldn't play football. No. And he lasted 20 minutes. And then someone said, who's this guy? He's hopeless. So I feel a bit like that guy at the moment. I want to ask you, why?

Because I'm just, I've never been someone who feels very confident talking about themselves and about their feelings and about their emotions. I've never had, I've never been, I've never done therapy or I've never sat down like we are talking about those kind of things. And I've always been one of those people who's felt far more comfortable, not ignoring them, but just being able to get by without necessarily having to confront them, I think. So, yeah, hold on tight, folks. The thing that I think is interesting about you is first off, this sort of, these two images of Jamie that people have.

Well, there's one image of Jamie that people have really, and this is outgoing, funny, gregarious, on the radio, great at interviewing, great with people, and they don't know much about you. Yeah. And then I was so surprised to read that you were a shy kid. Yeah, very shy. I was like, really, was he? Because I don't remember you like that. I knew you before we were famous. Yeah.

And I never thought of you as. shy. How? Yeah, so we, just on that how long we've known each other because I've never quite, we've tried to work out when we first met before. And my, I might have got this wrong, but my understanding was that I think I was, I was involved in this close show model competition. I think it was about In 1987, like that. Models 1. Yeah. And I was asked to go to, on the back of that, to go down to models 1 and meet the guys on the men's desk at Omega House.

Yes. Yes. On the Kings Road. Oh my God. Good memory. Well, I remember it really very clearly. And I think that was when we first met. Yeah.

So if that was 87, that means we're, that's just shy of 40 years ago. That's amazing. And I think that might have been the first time. That's amazing. Otherwise, we would see each other out and about. I mean, lots of social gatherings. Lots of friends in common. Yes.

Lots of friends. Subterranean. Yeah. My God, that was such a good club. When you were working, I think. Yeah. So I used to run that with Graham Ball. Yeah.

Jeremy Healy. And Jeremy Healy used to DJ. Yeah. I'm a saint, I'm a son, I'm a ma psa. That's all. Yeah, amazing. Anyway, so that, so I think we've known each other a long time. And so, and that was before, before we were famous.

Or before fame cast its fickle, finger of fate in our direction. So in 87, you would have been, what, 17? 17. Yeah. Wow. And you, I think, are probably 90. 20. So we've known, what's interesting, I guess, about our relationship is that we have known each other before we were because then obviously we were cast into quite similar careers

at the time you were doing MTV and I was doing music I was doing show that the ozone and then other music shows at the time kids TV that kind of thing did you start on radio I started in yeah I started doing the radio at um GLR where I was a sports reporter I mean that's quite a mega job actually no that's not true I started in doing it doing travel news. Oh, right. Okay. So I was, I used to, I lived in Labrote Grove and I was the manager that we played in the

Sunday League football team. And one of our players, his girlfriend at the time was the secretary in the department and they were struck down with illness and they didn't have anyone to read the travel news. And they said, well, you've done like acting and stuff in the past. Why don't you come and read the travel? I love that. I love that. I love that kind of connection.

you've done acting like just speak yeah so that's so you're right so that's how the radio started and then I wanted to be a sports reporter because I was a big sports fan so I was just knocking on doors and I managed to do I was doing work experience at the local radio um football commentary football you know when they go around the grounds yes and they can go we can now go to Jamie at wherever I was. Two-neill here, Blackburn. It's like your dream job? Yeah, absolutely.

And I adored it. And I travelled all around the country on the train with my Rothman's football yearbook and an old plug-in telephone. And it was, I thought this is, I've absolutely made it. And I was paid £30 again to do, not including my train fare.

So quite often I was out of pocket. And then I remember I was then, used to do games with Garth Crooks at Gila, who was their main football correspondent. and that was just heaven for me. I mean, you mentioned earlier acting. Yeah. You went to the National Youth Theatre.

Yeah. Was that the first time you ever tried anything like that? Yeah. So I was probably about 14. I always loved doing school plays and helping out. And I had a drama teacher. And it was he who said, you could be better than this. you should go and audition for the National Youth Theatre.

What did that feel like to a shy boy who? Well, I guess it was, being on stage at the time and being able to express myself on stage felt very liberating. So I think for someone who was as shy as I was, doing that really felt very thrilling for me because it allowed me to, I felt like, wow, look, I can be on stage and do shows. It just felt, you know, exhilarating. It's quite interesting.

I wonder out why somebody who, some people who are gregarious and outgoing, it would be their worst nightmare. Going out there and being kind of judged in a way on your, but for you, you found it. I found it liberating as a child. I mean, it probably just meant, you know, realistically, it probably, meant that I didn't have to go to lessons and I could meet girls. That was probably the reality behind it. Because since then,

I then went on to do plays in like the West End and stuff. And I was terrified, properly terrified. Well, that's kind of you'd say that. But the learning lines I found difficult and press nights just were, I was, had crippling anxiety.

But I think it felt like very liberating as a kid, to be able to do that. So I went to audition for the National Youth Theatre and unbelievably got in and I spent a few years there and doing nothing, doing nothing significant, but being able to see other people

who are really good at it. Daniel Craig, for instance, was in my year. Amazing. And if you know, he went on to be Bond. I never felt like I was particularly, I felt I struggled a little bit. I didn't feel as good as everyone else around. me. Everyone else was going on to drama school and I had a bit of a crisis of confidence

and thought, I'm not, this is, I can't do this. This is not for me. Why? I just wasn't sure that I would be able to make a living out of it. Right. And I mean, that is, but in, personally, you went into entertainment, radio, TV. You'd think lots of people say the same thing about that. Yeah, I guess I sort of went back to it because then I, after that sort of slight. confidence crisis. I then went and did, I worked for Christy's the auctione. I mean, I did all sorts of other things that were completely unrelated. And it was only, I guess, sort of, I came back to it just on that opportune moment

when someone happened to be sick and someone said, well, will you come and fill in? And there's been quite a few of those kind of serendipitous moments in my life where you look back at it and go, I could quite easily have said no. And I said, oh, I don't think I'd be too nervous to do that. Or I'm not sure I would have been good enough to do that. And yet for some ridiculous reason, I said yes. But you grew on radio, right, quite a lot like people loved you. You went from travel quite quickly to reporting for sport, which was what your dream was.

Yeah, yeah. But how did telly happen? So I didn't see a clear sort of career path for me. I guess, doing the sports report. I wasn't sure really where I had needed to go with that. But one of the things that doing, working at Radio 5, doing the travel, GLR, what it gave me was a BBC pass. And that was like a golden ticket for anyone that was interested in broadcasting. So I remember going to, I could go into television centre and knock on people's doors and say hi.

I'm available on cheap. Did you? I did. And that's what took me to children, Sally. I mean, that's kind of an amazing thing to do. You know, I'm still trying to marry up shy Jamie with the guy that will walk around the BBC and knock on people he doesn't know his doors.

Yeah, because that big. But that felt like, that felt like I needed to do that for, you know, work, that felt like work rather than a sort of personality trait, if that means. Were you, were you, obviously you were ambitious and you wanted to get somewhere. Yeah. I always think it's quite funny how ambitious is labelled as like an insult to people sometimes. Oh, that's so ambitious. I always think it's a great thing.

Yeah, I think it's certainly important to have an ambition. I was still unclear where that ambition was going to take me so I didn't really have any clear defined goals at all I mean I really genuinely didn't I wasn't sure necessarily what I was necessarily what I was good at what I was capable of doing and then I was asked whether I would do if I was interested in doing a screen test for this

for a music show and that's kind of really where that where it started. It was only through doing that show and being kind of a feature within that department was I then asked to audition for live and kicking, which I guess in many ways was my kind of big, that Saturday morning.

So good. Show was what sort of did it for me, I guess. That was so much. It was mega. Tell me about that time. It was so far. How old were you then? I must have been about 22 maybe.

I mean, what a great age to just... Yeah, really exciting. And live television was just was terrifying and exciting. Yeah. I mean, you know what it's like. There's nothing quite like it. But what was interesting was that no one knew who I was and I was doing it with Zoe Ball,

who at that time had just come from the Big Breakfast. So she'd been very used to doing live TV and it was like, She was just, it was a complete natural. Like for her, it just made perfect sense. But I was very different because I didn't feel like I had that natural innate ability to do it. So I would spend my time talking to the sound guide or the lighting guys to understand what they were doing. Because I'd never really done that kind of TV before, never been in a studio before.

And what did you want to hear from them? I guess I wanted to feel, if I felt like if I knew, how everything worked and what was going on, then I might become better at it if I could understand the craft of it, I guess. Whereas though it was completely obvious, she would literally turn up like five minutes beforehand

and she'd go, as you go, do you want to look at the running, glance at a running order and go, yeah, yeah, got it, no problem, let's go. And I was like, my, I'd spend like hours the night before pouring over the running order. And yet she just could do it like that. It was extraordinary.

to watch. And what I would do afterwards, we would do the show. And then I would go up to the next door to us, Noel Edmonds would be doing house party. And so I would watch him, I would sit at the back and watch him just to see how he did it through the rehearsal process. And he was just unbelievable. I mean, he didn't have no auto cue, no running, no scripts, nothing. And he would do a whole hour, he was absolutely the master for me. And I just wanted to copy what he did. Because he was, for me, I just, my goodness, that's extraordinary. You put so much effort and work into your craft. Only because I thought without it, I would really be exposed to say, well, what's this guy doing?

Actually, the thing I loved was your relationship with Zoe. Yeah. Was that easy to, did it happen? Yeah. Just completely. Yeah. I mean, there was, it's funny how doing, I mean, I've had that quite often.

I've had partnerships or I've done shows with other people. And it's like I find it very relying on that, or not relying on that other person, but worth dovetailing with that other person. I found really comforting. And she really sort of held my hand. Certainly in that, the first series, I think we did maybe three years.

years of that show. Certainly for the first series, she was, you know, I was kind of holding on to her. Yeah. But the co-presenter thing is sometimes it works. There are times it doesn't, it rarely happens oddly. I mean, I can't, I could probably, there's been a couple of times we just haven't really clicked. Often they get spotted in a sort of during a pilot or something and then they might try

and change you out. I think it's really funny when people are, I often get asked to do doubleheaders and my heart slightly sinks when I get asked because people, it's a bit like going to a dating agency or something and people are going, oh, these two will get on really well. And then I sometimes, I meet them and I think, oh, there's, it's not that you don't like them. It's that the chemistry's not there. And the chemistry is magic. There's something, as we all know in relationships,

it's so hard to meet somebody. You have that. Being in a relationship, yeah, because you have to understand. I mean, we got to the stage where I just knew what she was going to say. Yeah. And then you just, you know, when you see twins being interviewed, it's that, but you're right about that. You never really know.

And it is like, it can be a bit like, you know, putting two giant pandas and trying to hope they mate. Yes. You know, and everyone's watching them. Go on, guys. And sometimes it just doesn't happen. Yeah. You can't make it happen.

Yeah, it's quite interesting in that. And then, so you did television, and we loved you on that, the Priory. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God, I love the Priory. I think, thanks to you, I think I met Matthew McConaughey on the Priory. And I just want to thank you for that. He's lovely. Yeah.

He's amazing. But your green room was epic. Yeah. It was a brilliant show. How long did you do that? up for? I think again, I think we only did it for three years. That's interesting. They burn quite brightly some of those shows. They do. And you sort of remember, interestingly, so that show, I wasn't meant to be Zoe's co-host on that show. Really?

And I got switched in pretty late on in the development stage of that show. But again, that again goes back to what we were talking about earlier about that kind of. And I think it might well have been Zoe saying, well, just get Jamie to do it. So, and that was this, and all that was, really, was a sort of, I mean, I'm loads to say more grown up show than live and kicking, because a lot of the things we did. Similar. Really grown up in it. Yeah. But that was what was fun about it.

I guess we sort of took our audience through into their, but that was pretty good. That was a fun show. Do you know what, I have no memory of that show at all. So good. I loved it. I mean, what I thought was interesting, you had a hugely successful TV career and then pivoted to radio. And I was like, what? What's he doing?

Because that was like a, when you, did you go straight from TV to heart? No, I was at Radio One for a bit. Radio One, of course you were. Of course you were. But I think the radio one, when I was at Radio One, that was probably overlapping with TV anyway. Yes, at the same time. Yeah. So I think there was at the time

I was sort of shuddle in me to do it and it didn't it felt entirely natural. Yes. And I can't really remember when that switch then happened to heart. It was a big one that. Yeah, it was quite big. And I had quite, I had a lot of reservations at the time but I wasn't sure about whether it was the kind of thing I wanted to do.

Why? Such a big job. Yeah, I just felt like I just wasn't convinced that I was a good fit for that show at the time. And then I think I did, I think I was meant to do three years. And I think that's certainly what I'd signed up for originally. And then I never left. Yeah.

Well, were you married to Sophie then? No. So that was 20 years ago. How long have you been married to Sophie? We've been married. 17 years. Wow. And I know that because my eldest son just turned 17.

Was he in her tummy? He was, yeah. It was quite a special moment because we had, when we were married, just not long before we'd found out that Tofi was pregnant and no one knew. Literally no one knew. And I think it was about the day before. the wedding was the three months. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so... It was an absolute gift for my wedding speech. Oh. Because right at the end, I could say, and there's one final person I want to say to talk about, and that was... A secret guest. That was a secret guest, yeah.

And everyone went, what? And I said, yeah, he's here with us, but he doesn't, he won't arrive. for another six months. And everyone went, and there was this sort of moment, everyone went quiet and then the sort of penny drops about people going,

what? And then they looked over and then, she hasn't been drinking at all in the way. And then that was it. And it was just a wonderful end to her speech because then everyone just got up and went bananas. They couldn't believe it. Well,

I'd like to talk about Sophie. How did you meet her? So we, met in, I was doing the Oscars coverage for Sky at the time. So we would go out and do a big live show around the Oscars itself. And at Elton John's party, in fact, we built a studio outside Elton John's party and I would do that. We did it for about two or three years. And I think it was the second year, there was a Soho House pop-up in LA. in this amazing big house up in the hills.

Amazing. And they ran it for like four weeks over the Oscars. And the first year, and she was running it. And so I'd met her in the first year. And I had a girlfriend. She, I think, was about to get married. Well, certainly had a proper boyfriend. And so we just kind of, you know,

we were sort of passing ships in the night, really. And then the next year, I saw her again. I went, oh, how did you get married? She went, no. She goes, how did your girlfriend? I said, well, we split up. And then that was it. And we sat down for dinner in L.A., in the hills.

And I remember it quite clearly because Jamie Oliver was cooking. Wow. And Madonna on one side of me. And I turned my back on Madonna and spoke to Sophie all night. And that was how we met. Yeah. So that was pretty special. 17 years married is a long time.

Yeah. And, you know, obviously I know it's hard work to have been in a long relationship. You've got to put a lot of effort in and then you get the rewards back, you know. But I know that you two have really, really been on a job. and especially in the last year or so with your illness and everything. Yeah. Yeah. How's it been for you these last few months and navigating your relationship, her, the kids?

So when I got my cancer diagnosis, it was, it came as such a huge. huge shock to me because it was so surprising. Like there was no, it just came as such as broadside because I, so I had had this sore throat for a while and we were about to go on holiday. We were going to, we're off to Japan.

In fact, I think we were meant to be flying to Japan the day. And my wife said, you should go and see someone before we go just to get some antibiotic so that you can, you know, clear up your throat. And was it true that listeners on Heart Radio had said, two listeners had called. Yeah, yeah. People had mentioned the fact that my voice had sounded wasn't sounding right.

And I knew it wasn't sounding right myself. But I just thought, well, you know, you have a sore throat and you go, you know, your voice can get weak and you go through it. And you use it a lot. Yeah, yeah. And so people said, but you should go and have it looked at. And I hadn't really taken much. notice of that, but because we were going away and I wasn't getting a chance to do it.

And also at work, they were saying, we might have to take you off for a bit. We'll see you'll go away for, I said, I'm away for two weeks. It'll be absolutely fine when I get back. So I went to go and see my doctor. My doctor said, when anyone has a sore throat for more than two weeks, we suggest you get it looked at properly. And I hadn't even, and I just thought, well, that's, maybe you get a really bad sore throat. So I went to go and see a specialist and who was a lovely man,

literally the worst bedside manner of any doctor you will ever meet. So he looked at my throat and he said, oh yeah, that's probably cancer. And I went and I said, what do you mean? And he said, yeah, you know, I've seen, I've looked at the like an ulceration on your vocal chord and I've seen that many times and nine times out of ten is cancer and we need to get you scanned and I said well I'm on a I'm off to Japan in like six hours anyway we need to get you scan now you need to go and get we you need to have at least an MRI scan a cat scan was and all of a sudden there was this rush to get it to get the scans done um and and

We got the scans done. He then said, look, obviously it might not be cancer. And in which case he gave me some pills to take with me when I went away. And I went on holiday with this in the back of my mind. You didn't have the results. Didn't have anything. So by that, what we were going to do, we would see if there was going to be any change, any development. And then we would make a decision when we got back what we were going to do with it.

So at that stage, I didn't have, I didn't have cancer. as far as I was concerned, he said it might be cancer. So we went away on a holiday. I had a fantastic time, but obviously this is the back amount. I didn't want to tell him. Did you tell Sophie? No, I didn't tell Sophie. No.

And then when I got back... Can I just quickly interrupt there? That's quite a lot to carry on your own on a two-week holiday with your family. At that stage, I thought, well, it might not be cancer. So there's no point really in saying... You didn't want to share the... burden. That's a burden on you. Yeah, I guess I just tried to suppress it and I didn't want to

think about it. And I, all I could think, well, look, it's probably not. And we'll get it, when I was getting back, we have to remove the ulceration anyway. It has to be removed. And then they'll biopsy it and then we'll see what it is. So went back. The scans came back And they said, well, if it is cancerous, the good news is we don't, we can't see any spread. But you do need, we do need to have it removed. Had it removed, biopsy came back and they said, you've got cancer. And I then had to go home and tell my wife and she was distraught. And I said, look, I know it sounds bad and, but.

We're pretty confident at this stage that, you know, it's going to be fine. It's really early stages. But I don't want you to worry about it and everything will be fine. And so the results came back. It looks fortunate for me, early stage, stage one, but it was quite an aggressive. The cancer cells were pretty aggressive. And so we had the surgery done, told Sophie had to explain to the kids what was happening. Because that's a...

What was that like? Yeah, it was really hard because I had to... What I wanted to explain to them that I was going to be fine. But they didn't... They were too young to understand when you say you've got cancer to a 14-year-old. well, you're going to die. And so they go, well, are you going to be okay? And I said, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm going to be fine.

But my mum had died of cancer about a year before. And so my youngest son, it was with me when I was told my mum had died from cancer, knew you how that you could die. and so I told him that it was going to be fine and that he had nothing to worry about and that was the hardest part and then

so we had the surgery and we went back and the results came back and they said the surgery was successful but because they were worried about removing too much tissue from the vocal core because obviously it's quite for what I do. I mean, the irony of getting cancer in your vocal cords. And they were worried that, so they didn't

want to remove, they wanted to leave as much tissue as they could to make sure that the voice wasn't going to be impaired. And they came back and they said, well, we're worried actually that there might still be cancer around the periphery of where they've removed the can't. They can't be 100% short. So we're going to have to go again. So we remove more tissue. issue. So that set my, set my recovery back considerably because I would only expect you to be off work for a month or two. What was the time difference between the first up and the second? I think it was probably about four weeks, five weeks maybe. So you kind of were thinking, oh, this is good, I'm recovering now. And during that time, I remember Amanda had given an interview

where she had said, yeah, because by that stage I had to sort of make the announcement, because obviously I wasn't on air and I needed to explain why. And Amanda had said, oh, I'd read an interview where she said, yeah, we're obviously we're all rooting for Jamie and we're hoping you'll be back by Christmas. And this was like in September or something. I was like, well, I'm going to be way back before Christmas. So we had to do the second operation which set me back. And then we did the second operation.

When we then looked at how that had gone during the healing process, it transpired that there was some tissue that was part of the healing process was overlapping onto my vocal cord, which meant that my voice was, I was still struggling with my voice. And we'd have to remove that. In another operation? In a third surgery. Wow, God.

Now, at this stage, we're now getting dangerously close to removing so much of the vocal chord that I wouldn't be able to talk again. And so that had now gone from being, I've got cancer, but I should be able to live to a situation where they're gone, well, we're now dangerously close to you not being able to talk.

Which is a new... I was like, wow, I didn't really factor that into the whole equation. But anyway, we, fortunately, that third surgery was successful. And, yeah, we're kind of here where we are today. I really want to talk to you about that third surgery. I think it's fascinating talking to people who have been through something potentially life-changing. And everybody's experience is different but similar, I think. and where you have to go with your mind to get through something like that,

because I've never had thought processes like I had before my operation. And I was, some people were like, oh, you know, God, you were quite extreme because I was like, I need to make sure that everybody's okay if I die. like will let us you know what you did that you did that yeah but you told me when you told me you said that you were that it was that you were going to be absolutely fine yeah i mean i literally was telling everybody that but i did you like you lied to me it says you mr mr i'm gonna Hope with everything could be completely fine. But being on an operating table is a risk.

Yeah. I mean, when I'd found... At our age. Yeah. I'd said to my doctor, I said, well, what are the chances of me dying? I actually said, what are the chances of me surviving? And he said, you've got 90% survival rate. And I was like, I'll take that.

That's fine. That's like, pick a number one between one and 10. And I'm pretty confident. I'll be fine. So I'd always, I've always analyzed the probability of risk. I'm not a gambler. Never have been because I don't, I always analyze the probability. And I don't, well, it's point, why would you, you know, that seems pointless. I've never been driven by the adrenaline of gambling. And so I thought, well, 90% I'll take. But what's really extraordinary for me was that was because I got mine, it was stage one.

And I always had so many people get in touch with me. You know, when we go to stage two, and then that drops to 60%, and then stage three, when you're in around the sort of 30, 40%, 40%. And so, and I was having people getting in touch with me at stage three saying, you've got this. And I'm thinking, that's, I felt, I never, ever felt I was going to die. And then I was thinking if I would put those people with stage three how tough that must be. You know, what I was thinking about you was I had one operation and then I knew I was okay. But each operation at our age carries a risk and you had three.

Yeah, I'd never really thought about it in that. All I wanted to, all I wanted to do was I kept thinking to myself, I'll do that and I'll be better. Right. But you weren't. But then I'd had that, what I'd termed, scansiety. Yeah. When, I mean, how many scans have we had? I mean, I never have another scan. Do you know what I mean?

Tell me what that's like. Well, it's, it's, you're just, each time you have a scan, you're thinking, God, God, it's just the results. It's okay, it hasn't spread. One of the things that's quite, I mean, well, it's quite, good a odd word but one of the things you have about vocal core cancer is it's very difficult for it to spread because of the no not a real expert but it's a difficult one to spread and also it presents itself very early on because you literally lose your voice and we're like oh that doesn't

sound right you know if you've got prostate cancer or it doesn't it's a power that hides in the shadows you know and no and you just don't know and when you do know often it's too late So thankfully for me that wasn't the case. I mean, I'm always gobsmacked that there are people who can get to stage three vocal core cancer without doing anything about it. And then I became quite evangelical and have been to this day about getting checked and making sure that because actual our cancer outcomes at stage one are really good. You know, I'm a living example of that. once you get to stage three beyond, it's really not good. And it doesn't have to be like that.

You know, we should have, I know there's a lot of talk at the moment about a national screening program for prostate cancer, as in the same way that women have for breast cancer. No-brainer. Should absolutely have. You know, PSA test is not a particularly strong, you know, the failure level of PSA is quite high. We should be having screening.

We should be screening all the time. I know it's expensive. It's a big money, I think, in the long run, wouldn't it? You'd have thought so, yeah. So early detection is just so important. And I think you had quite a big impact on people screening for. Well, I hope so. I mean, it was interesting.

I didn't know. I mean, the cancer that I had is really rare. it's a it's a it's a you know laryngeal cancer is a very unique not many people get it my there's a lot of the doctors I spoke to had never even seen a case of it throat and neck cancers are far more common but laryngeal cancer is a very rare cancer um and as I said it because it presents itself through your voice we're quite lucky because you can diagnose it early um And that's why I'm still here.

And as far as that third surgery went, I think for me, I don't know about you, but if somebody said to me, there is a chance of you not being able to speak, that would have a massive impact on me. Yeah, I mean, it was, excuse the pun, it was unspoken at the time. because I hadn't really, I was still thinking about if I don't, I need to be able to survive this. I hadn't really thought about the possibility that there might be, I might be losing my voice. I hadn't really considered that because often that you hear about those cases where they go,

good news, you're going to live. But unfortunately, this is, you know, you're going to, you see people at accent. in car accidents, I'm, you know, I've got great news. You're going to live, but unfortunately you're going to lose a leg. And you just think, oh, it's amazing, I'm going to live. But you don't think of the sort of what the other ramifications of what might not happen. So I'd never really factored in losing my voice entirely. And it is a muscle and it will, and it's improving.

even now it's not as strong as it should be. I find that if I've, because I've been away for the last couple of weeks, I haven't been doing my radio show. And so I did my radio show this morning and now I can hear my voice is quite weak. But that's fine because I'm on the mend and it's all good

and I have to get checked every month. I've got one tomorrow where I have to have a laryngoscopy. Does that make you nervous? not anymore because I've sort of feel like we're on a we're on a journey out of it now you know it'll be a year in what is it probably about eight months now so I've monthly checks and I feel like now the likelihood of return I've probably I think we're out of the woods I mean it's a you're never out of the woods when it comes to cancer it's a nasty business

but I don't feel as anxious as I used to. And the voice is getting stronger. And I feel in a much better place, not only physically, but also mentally, because I've learnt so much about myself and about how strong you can be. I've learnt about other people, about friends and family, about how important they can be.

In what way? Supporting, being there, not taking them for granted. Has that been nice? Yeah, it's been a real gift. Often when bad things happen to us, we can get in the aftermath of that. there are good things to be to take from it. And I think that I really do feel that I am a better person because of what I've been through than what I was before.

In what way? Well, I can look back and about what things are important and I'm much more relaxed about work and about life. And I see now when, if you're in that position, when you tell your children you've got cancer. and what that might mean to then telling your children that you don't have cancer anymore and what that might mean and all of a sudden you see your future ahead of you and it's like that's pretty cool

one of the things that I'd done and if you were the same when I came when I got through it I became an all I did was plan ahead months, years in ahead, because I've got my future. So all I wanted to do was plan. So I would often, before I got cancer, I was very analogue and I had a file of

facts and everyone would take the piss out of me because I still had a file of facts. And I never embraced a digital, because it just didn't make any sense to me. Now I love it. And in actual fact, when I'm on my phone now, I'm not on Instagram or I'm not, I don't know. calendars. I'm on calendar, putting stuff in. And so people will go, I'll go, hey, should we go away on a golf weekend in 2027? And they're going, what?

I don't even know what I'm doing next week. I'll go, yeah, if you've got to get it in, I can put it in my calendar. It's great. And so I'm planning, if I were to show you my calendar, it's just packed for weeks and weeks ahead. Because I can, and I can put fun things in. and I'll arrange, you know, dinners with friends for like two months time. They're like, when have you ever planned two weeks ahead, normally ring up on the morning? Go, should we go and have lunch?

Yay! And now I think, you know, I can plan it. It's great. And there's a feeling of privilege in that, isn't there? When you've had a frightening time in your life, there is a feeling of, I had a sensation. I was on the chew. and I had the joys of life. And I was sat on the tube and I was looking at everybody.

This was post-operation. Yeah. And everybody looked a bit, you know, me. And I was like, that's what I wanted to do. I know. But I just, I thought like, God, I am weird, but I thought it would be great if everybody could have the joys of life. or would that be really irritating? But you've always been like that.

You've always had this extraordinary, extraordinarily rosy outlook ever since I've known you. You've always been one of those people who you want to be near because you're hoping that some of that might rub off on you. And being with you is such a life-enriching experience. Oh, Jamie. And you've always been. been like that, more so since you've had the operation, when you've become really annoying.

Golden Retriever. Really annoying. Calm down. For goodness sake. I was traumatised the last time I saw you. Sorry. I came into heart and I, I, that I'm really sorry about that. What are you talking about?

I felt like it was a lot of crying and, um, And emotion, but I was so unbelievably happy to see you. Like, well, God, just like, I thought about you so much. Yeah, it was amazing. Well, we'd both been told that we might not have tomorrow. Mm. Mm. And so.

And I, and I, I know this is ridiculous, but I had thought I'd hurt you that day when I'd Got you on that death-like grit. Okay. Just so we're really clear on this. Yes. Okay. Yes. So basically.

Anybody to know that. DeVina had come on and very kindly agreed to co-host on my show, which you're amazing, by the way. And during that period, you had given me one of your big hugs, which was great. Anyway, during that hug, I know that. That sort of throat throttle. And I'm going to think, oh God, that was painful. But you then had decided, after then, obviously it was discovered that when I had cancer. And your first thought was that you were somehow responsible.

I mean, that wasn't quite, that wasn't quite it. I had spent all the time between the throttle and the cancer feeling like I'd injured you in some way. Like, I really felt bad about that. And then when I heard you had cancer, I was like, God, maybe I, like, made it worse or something, you know, that he was vulnerable there. And I was thinking, anyway, so knowing that you'd got help and everything and then you were okay was like.

But if you, what that had, what you did was alerted me to the fact there might be something rock. So it actually, in fact, rather than you thinking, oh, I've done something bad, it's the opposite that you actually were part of the process that enabled me to get better. Because in hospital, I thought about you a lot. I think about you as well. You know, it's funny, isn't it? I mean, we were messaging and stuff, but I, I don't know. It was, it was a, so. We were playing cancer top Trump.

Yeah. Who had the worst? I didn't have cancer. That was the amazing thing for me. I was very, I was, you know, we talk about lucky, you, you feel you were stage one, you caught it early enough. I, I was like, you know, benign isn't always fine and mine carried risks of death, but in a different way, that when mine was done, when mine was out, excuse me. And gone, you know, I knew I was done. Your, your, the danger for you was your procedure.

But also it carried. The cyst, if it grew at all, would give me hydrocephalus, which can put you in a coma and cause death. And we never knew if it was going to grow or it might never grow and it might grow on a plane. It could grow anytime, anywhere. So was there ever a time when you thought you might not get the surgery done? I asked, yes, I asked lots of people. I got opinions. And then you had to weigh up the risk benefit factor.

It's very hard to get that properly from a brain surgeon because of litigation. So if they operate on you and they've told you you're fine and it's not fine. So you can't get a kind of, so I actually paid a brain surgeon with the actual promise that you will never operate on me, but I need a really honest opinion. And they were in America. That's a good way of doing. Or you could have asked me. I could have asked you. For my expert opinion.

Yes, for your expert opinion. And you'd have said, you're fine. You're going to be fine. Do you know what I'd have said? You want you need? An early night. Impossible. A couple of aspirin and a good night's sleep to what you need.

I mean, the other thing that was annoying about it was that it had a chance of spontaneous death. And that was like a horrible idea. What does that even mean? So there's a 1% chance of you spontaneously dying, so you don't wake up. But what's the difference between spontaneous dying and just dying? Well, dying generally happens for a reason. Like your heart stops, you have a, you know, there's a heart attack. Yeah, but the reason is someone in your brain?

Yes, I guess so. But it's not that it's done anything. to your body. Your body shuts down and they can't... And it's like literally on the operating table and they suddenly go... Yeah. And you level and they go...

Yeah. Shit, what the fuck. Yeah. And then... But not even on an operating table. It could be in bed. It could be standing on the... OAP.

So, it's not during the procedure. No, it's just every day. Yeah, that's not quite. So I think that's why I just thought, I can't live with the doubt. But that's why I feel very lucky. A bit like you've... feel very lucky. It's quite mad that.

But my luck was, your luck was because your, you had a fantastic surgeon. And it was accessible. And it was accessible. My luck came from the fact that I was diagnosed early. Early. Because in actual fact, the procedure, apart from the possible damage to the vocal cords, is a relatively straightforward one. I mean, it's a weird, so it's like a robot laser.

I mean, I, because obviously we're not aware of what they're doing we wake up and go we've got a bit of a sore throat what happened um but there's very the chances of anything going wrong in that procedure are quite low but like as you say you say that to your doctor they're going oh good happen and you're like come on guys can we just lighten up a bit and they have to give you the risks before the operation you're like so you know you might not make it and you're going has anyone got any fucking good news do you know can we not get someone in who can just lighten the mood a bit You know, in children's wards, we don't have clowns come around.

Yes, you need some of that. The adult world, right? Yeah. Put a smile on our face. But I think there are other things that happen when you go through an experience like this. And we talked about it earlier about you talking about the synchronicity of things that happened, like how weird it is and how. And I've been talking to a couple of other people about. and brain surgeries and them looking back after the surgery and going, wow,

when you look at the sliding doors moments in your life when things could have gone a certain way, do you think that because of what you've been through, you are more aware of those moments? I wouldn't say that. I mean, I tend to have quite a scientific approach to these things. So for me, it's coincidence isn't odd. It doesn't seem weird to me. And it never felt weird to you? No, not really. So I don't have that. When a coincidence happens, it's not like, oh, that's kind of some higher process that's

happening. For me, it's just going, well, if you were to wear it up and look at your chances, all that might happen anyway, so it's not a significant, it doesn't seem to be statistically significant. But then what that, of course, ignores is a lot of the emotion that can be involved in those things anyway. And I don't, you know, I don't, I see the world as being an unbelievably, beautiful, extraordinary place anyway without feeling that there is something else going on

because it is. I mean, it really is. I mean, I think that, you know, we, one of the things that when I've just got back from Southeast Asia yesterday, and it. It's been a, what I love to be able to do is to be able to show my kids, travel for me is the most important thing you can ever do in terms of having a greater understanding of where we, our place on this planet, politically, environmentally,

and have it being lucky enough to be able to explore the world and to be able to take my, for me, is the greatest education you can ever give your kids. And they're now interested in, other places and other people and they want to become more adventurous. And I think what that does is it just expands your

worldview on things. Like our parents were, our parents and your parents, maybe your mum were slightly different. We didn't, they never, my parents didn't travel. They didn't go anywhere.

They certainly didn't go long haul. No, mine didn't. So it just was, it just wasn't a, it was a thing that we were the sort of first generation that really had that ability where it became cheap enough for us to be able to explore the world. And what that did for me, my desire to travel was ignited

at around about when I left school, 19, I think I went to Thailand, and it just blew my mind. And I just, all I wanted to do was explore the world. And I think, you know, that for me has given me so much, you know, culturally and, as I say, politically and, And that's, it's been great to be that. I've been able to do that with my kids and able to share my enthusiasm and hopefully pass it on to them.

And also, you know, that's, since my cancer, it's only fired that more. Like I now want to do really, I want to cross the Arctic or I want to do things that I've never done before, adventurous things, because we can. Because we have a tomorrow. And that's really exciting for me. Anyway, I can't make a while I go on to that chain of thought. That's a change. Like to do the really big things.

Yeah. Because you know. That you can. We can. And, you know, it might seem sort of before I got ill, it was quite trite to think of it in that way. But in actual fact, you know, Being able to do those things and have an opportunity to do those things is such a gift.

And when you realize that, it makes today a much better place than what yesterday was. Because for many people, they have a today, but they might not have a tomorrow. And the fact that we, both of us have gone through what we've been through and to have a tomorrow is the greatest gift of all. because and just on that I think I sort of mentioned this earlier when my my mum died of cancer and so I first had when I got told I had cancer

all I could think about was my mum and I was so pleased that she had died before I got cancer because I would hate for her to have learned that I had cancer because I'm not sure what that would have done to her because she's, she was a survive,

she'd lived with cancer for years. I got the all clear, came back. She had several different forms of cancer that in the end just took, she couldn't, wasn't strong enough to deal with. And I can't, I don't think, I'm not even sure I could have ever have told her because I don't know what that would have done to her.

And it was easy with my dad, in a way because my dad's been left behind, he, he's, you know, he struggles a bit with his memory and he's not, he doesn't have that much clarity in the way that my mum did. And so in a way, I could just tell him I was unwell. And I'm not sure how much he knew or does know now about how unwell I was. But I feel, I don't mind that because I don't want to burden him with it. I often think that Alzheimer's in many ways

is a it's a it's a very cruel disease but in many ways it means they don't have to really be fully aware of some of the difficult things that they might have to face at that age so I did it didn't

it wasn't difficult it was easier broaching it with him but I think it would have been very difficult to tell my mum. And as I touched upon earlier, my kids were really effective when my mum died. I mean, I got a call from my sister. We'd been on one of our adventures

and we'd been up to see the northern lights up in northern Finland. I didn't want to go too far because I knew my mum was pretty ill and I didn't want to go too far. I wanted to make sure I was back by Christmas to Zia. And it was my birthday on the 21st of December. And on the 22nd, as I was getting on the plane to come home,

my sister rang me and told me that my mum had died. And I sat next to my youngest son on the plane, and I had to explain to him. And he cried. And I told him it was fine. And so that was when I had to tell him that I had cancer. I didn't want him to think that I was going to die. And then the funerals are just a word, I can't, I hate funerals.

Hate funerals. Why do you hate funerals? I just find them. Just difficult and uncomfortable. And I had to, I knew that I had to give a, had to do her, took, took eulogy at my mum's funeral and it was really one of the hardest things I've had to do. I struggled to get through it. I do want my kids to see me cry. Why not?

Just because I don't want them to... I wanted them to know that I was strong enough to be able to deal with those things. I don't like a funeral. I want to tell you that in my opinion when a man cries, it's being strong. Yeah. It's being honest.

Yeah. Being honest is difficult, but your kids seeing you go through something or feeling feelings and not denying those feelings. Yeah, but do they understand that when they're young? I don't know. Not that young? No, you weren't.

I mean, they weren't then. No. They're old enough to have those kind of feelings. Yeah. Well, I'm happy that they didn't have to go through it. I'm too. Do you mind talking about your dad a bit? Sure.

Can I talk to you about that? I feel like this podcast is about begin again, and lots of people that watch this might be going through a phase of their life where life changes quite a lot, I think, when you're an adult and you're beginning to look after your parents. Yeah. And it always seems to happen at a time in our lives when there's a load of other stuff going on as well.

We might have teenagers who are struggling. or we might have illness or and then parents. And, you know, having had like the golden years of 30s, 40s, you know, career and marriage and... Yeah, little kids. Little kids. It's like the glory years. And then we hit a pretty hard time. Yeah.

How to navigate that. And you were saying your mum, who sounded like she was a driving force in your family. Completely. that you get a lot of your fire. Yeah, she was an extraordinary woman and I know she was very proud of me. She was. She loved her grandchildren

and she loved being able to see them and find out what they've been doing. And it's a sort of, there is a, you're right, there is that, there's a very blissful time in our lives when our parents are still playing quite an action. active part in our lives. Very useful when it comes to childcare.

But also, it's a sort of great support mecas knowing that they're still there. And there's also something wonderful about seeing that sort of, there is a sort of brief fleeting moment when a family as a whole, as a whole, grandparents, you, kids, all together. And everyone is young enough or old enough, whichever side of the, spectrum we're at to be able to appreciate that and it's a really blissful time um and then the kids get older and and bring all the fun that teenage years can bring and then the thing and then your parents die and that's like no one's you'll be awake on what's that no one's really prepared us for

that part of our lives and so that can actually be a time of upheaval, I think, for anyone to have to be able to get to grips with when your children don't need you in the same way that they used to. And that happens in a blink of an eye. And then as parents, we're struggling to, the parenting becomes very difficult then because your children can start thinking for themselves and making their own decisions. And then you kind of have to adjust to that, go, well, where do I, where do I impose myself and where have to sit off and just allow them to get on with it. So whilst you're dealing with that, you know, dropping the clutch and changing gear on that,

you've also got on the other side your parents suddenly getting ill or dying. And so my mum dying wasn't a great shock because she'd been unwell for some time. And then my dad was left on his own. Were they close? Yeah, they were. They did everything together. I mean, so hard to have that many years together and then one of you go.

Even though he knew she was ill, she'd lived with it for a long time. He's never been, you know, he's never been a very expressive, kind of emotional kind of guy. He's from a sort of different era really. And seeing him have to sort of struggle on his own is really difficult. Did he have signs of dementia before she died? Yeah, I think so. A lot of those signs that we hadn't really, some of them, it manifests itself in strange ways.

Irrational jealousies, which you think, that's odd. Paranoia. Paranoia. Can I tell you a weird thing? I understand a bit about that because I woke up with no short-term memory and it's come back very, very slowly over three months. and I struggled with all of those feelings when I was just out of hospital. And so, and they are akin to a sort of a...

It's short-term memory loss. It's like... Like an out-time as... Yeah, it was... I got paranoid. I got, like, insecure. Yeah. I didn't trust people that I love and trust.

Yeah. It was horrible, but I could feel it coming back rather than losing it. It gave me a new, well, obviously, you know my dad died of Alzheimer's. It gave me a new appreciation for what he'd been through and for what your dad is going through now. And what it really feels like, it's extraordinary. It's a particularly cruel disease. And being unaware that you are doing it or that it's weird,

you don't realize that it is strange. You think that it's absolutely. like a normal feeling to have, but you aren't remembering everything. Yeah. But you don't realise it. Yeah, it's losing someone and yet they're still in the same body.

It's a very weird thing. Did you start grieving your dad the minute that started happening? Yeah, because I felt like I'd lost the person that I always knew. Yes. And I think it was very difficult for my mum in her you know, with her being very ill, but also as he became increasing the unwell,

she found it very difficult to deal with. And it is difficult because all the things that you always used to do together, you can't do anymore. And you struggle to find points of reference that you can share. And you miss the man who he wants was. So there is a sort of grieving process that you know also you're going to have to go through again. So in a way when you have a parent who suffers from dementia, you know you've got to do it.

You grieve that person that you've lost and then you know you're going to have to go through it again when they eventually do die. it's a very difficult time because it's difficult when they're still feel that they still want to be able to make the decisions that they think are in their best interest when you know they're not and knowing how to deal with that is tricky what kind of a relationship did you have with your dad when you were growing up what kind of a dad was he to you I always had a lot of, I love my dad. He, I was, he wasn't, as I say, before, he wasn't necessarily the most emotionally mature person, I guess. But he came from a different time. Did I find it hard to show his feeling? Yeah, very much so.

Oh, God. But you knew how he felt. Yeah. But he'd never say, oh, I love you. He'd never hug me or the things that I do to my boys, which. make them go, ugh, get off. Dad, stop being so embarrassing. But I was always very proud of him and what he did.

And he was quite entrepreneurial. He'd set up his own business, work for himself. He was his own boss. I'd also had a lot of happy memories playing sport with him. He was a keen sportsman. So we'd play cricket together, play golf together, play football together. And so they're the memories I have for him of particularly fond memories. Yeah, but, you know, we don't, we don't share, we struggle to be able to share those things anymore, which is sad.

Is he still living independently? Yeah, he is. And that's a source of anxiety for me because you're always worried about, you know, is he going to be okay? Is he doing the right? Is he eating? Okay. Is he looking after himself? And he'd always said, you know, he never wants to go into any care or any, into a home. He said, I'm not going, I'm not ever doing that. And they become hard making those decisions for people who aren't maybe capable of making them themselves. And he's on his own.

in a house where we, you know, we had so many sort of happy times, all of us together, it's now just him. Is he in the country? Yeah. So he's quite a long way away from you. Yeah. Which is a bit stressful, right? Yeah, it's difficult. So, yeah.

And I feel for anyone who's got going through that themselves, it's tough. It is. And you know it's going to be a difficult journey. That's the thing. you know, it's not. Well, yeah, you know, it's a book where you know the ending. And it being able to, it's not like you can, it's difficult to have enjoyed the time that you do have left.

Looking forwards to your very, very busy diary and busy life. I'm amazed I squeezed you in by the way. What? What are you? you most looking forward to in life so much i'm looking forward to um i'm looking forward to um i'm looking forward to how my kids going to university and how exciting that's going to be for them because i know they're going to love it um i'm looking forward to seeing the young men that they are growing into that gives me great pleasure um

And I'm looking forward to just the rest of my life is, I think what I really want to do, there's so much more that I want to do, so many places I want to go, so many more things I want to do. And the world's a huge place and there's so many adventures to have. And I just can't wait for that. It's a great time of life. Finn, I know that we've kind of dwelt on some of the more difficult times that we have at this period of our lives. But equally, there's so much more to be able to look forward to.

Equally, I also think that these difficult times are what is making us appreciate the future so much. You know, this is why I always said, If I make it through this operation, it's definitely going to be one of the best things that's ever happened to me. I can feel it already. And I've got a friend of mine who's going through an illness at the moment. We went out for dinner and this is quite a difficult illness that's got like years. He's still got years to live, but it's a difficult illness he's having to deal with. It's not cancer.

It's something else. but we had dinner and he said it's the greatest thing that's ever happened to me. I've fallen in love with my wife all over again. That's amazing. He just can't believe how amazing she is. And hearing that, you know, you think, oh God, how can somebody, how can that happen? But actually, I now realize that it's through extreme hardship. Yeah.

That these amazing things can happen. Amazing things can happen. Yeah. And I was thinking, you know, You know, your boy is going to university. That's you and Sophie. Yeah. Beginning again, right?

Yeah. And I think it's so important to be able to have that mindset. I met a guy recently who has, he has got a particularly aggressive form of cancer. And he's in the, I mean, he doesn't really have that much longer to live. And I said, what, he said, oh, the medication, a lot of the medication stuff. He said, chiefly the medication that he relies on is antidepressants. And I said, because I just find it makes me so fucking sad. And I'm being, oh my God.

And just that felt so tragic to me. But also, and I felt guilty sharing my cancer journey with him when he's had such a bleak, have such a bleak, bleak ending. I mean, I don't want to end our chat on a downer. No, but these are all... That felt like that felt really difficult. And I wasn't sure, and I didn't know what to say to him.

Because you can't say, well, you know, cheer up. You might be... No. It just felt particularly bleak. But I guess you just have to enjoy the moments that you do have left on this earth, I guess. And I think it's appreciation and we forget to appreciate sometimes. We take life and people and love and family and kids for granted sometimes or sometimes it's exhausting.

And it's like, oh, God, I can't get up this morning. But what's ridiculous is it takes a cancer diagnosis for you to realise that. I mean, you know, it's embarrassing, isn't it, that we get to 50, I've got to 54 and now I'm learning that. I think lots of people. get to that age and come up for air and kind of go, I think this is, this is a good, you know, it's a good thing. It's not embarrassing. It's great. Yeah. I'm quite liking this sort of new, like, I wouldn't say you're sensitive. I wouldn't want to put that on you because

that, yeah, let's not get too much. But it's, it's a warmer. like it's a there's something really nice that's shifted in you yeah like it's a it's a good thing yeah and I hope it's I hope it'll make me be a better parent maybe it might make me better broadcaster certainly feels like it makes me a better person I for sure feel that your empathy with listeners as well you are different yeah a bit yeah yeah yeah I can feel that that just from listening. Well, yeah, because, you know, at the end of the day, what we do is we are, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're talking, you know, there'll be, people will be, we're listening to this, we're talking to people, we're communicating with people. It's not about you, it's about them and about that

connection. I've always been amazed at how resilient this sort of audio, whether it's podcast or radio, about how resilient as a medium it is. because you kind of think wow people are still listening but then it's important to listen and it's important to talk and that's essentially all it is that's all we're doing communicating and that is the most important thing on earth and this has helped you communicate yeah I think so I think it may be a better listener

better talker and I just quickly I think someone deserves a mention obviously Sophie Yeah, VIP with Parker there But your radio wife Amanda Holden She's an extraordinary woman

She was so good to me When I was poorly She literally Checked in on me nonstop People get a bit nervous I don't know how you found it People don't know what to say Yeah completely

How can we And you really clock the people Who step up Yeah Was she there For you like that. Absolutely. I mean, she's incredible.

She's a force of nature that one. And no, she's been incredible. She's been very supportive. You know, I had to, you know, I was, I was off for, I don't know, was it, four months or something. She's got a long time to be away. And she was brilliant. She was amazing with me. She was amazing.

She kept a show going, did a brilliant job. and she's been really supportive and she's certainly made the whole process so much easier for me well Jamie I love you I love you too and thank you

has it been all right oh Jamie it's been lovely I'm so happy to see you here well and yeah it's been more than all right yeah it's been lovely and it's been lovely getting to know you a bit and feeling like you're letting us into your life which i know you're

very private about and i understand that oh i appreciate being up and it's been lovely being able to talk to you about it all yeah good and you arrived on a bike it's so cool like they said it's coming on a bike and i think everybody thought it was a line bike the motorbike well yeah it won't no it won't spit that out i can't believe i said that yeah shh It was very cool anyway, but thank you. Are we, how have we been talking? Oh, stop here. How long have we been talking for?

Oh, I do. Oh, thank you, darling. So it was lovely talking to Jamie, and I think the interesting thing for me is that I have known him for a very long time. But he is someone who, who is very in control of his life, very pragmatic, practical, sensible, a really good, solid friend. But I knew very little about him, really, or his feelings around things.

And this was a really nice chat because I felt like I got to scratch the surface a bit and get to know him a lot better. and I like the feeling version of Jamie. It was nice. And he arrived on a bike. I mean, what else can I say? It was amazing.