Begin Again with Davina McCall - Liz Houghton: Losing My 20-Year-Old Son & How To Keep Living When Your World Ends

Episode Date: September 17, 2026

How can you really support someone you love when they’re going through unimaginable loss? In this moving episode of Begin Again, Mint Velvet co-founder Liz Houghton joins Davina McCall and shares the heartbreaking story of losing her 20-year-old son Will after a cycling accident, and the moment she learned his injuries were unsurvivable.  She opens up about those final weeks together, Will’s decision to become an organ donor, and why knowing his organs helped save 12 other lives has become such an important part of his legacy. Liz also explains what grieving families really need from the people around them, why saying their loved one’s name matters, why silence can hurt more than an imperfect attempt to reach out, and how she and her family learned to grieve differently while staying connected. Alongside her extraordinary personal story, Liz reflects on building Mint Velvet from her kitchen table after suddenly losing her 20-year career, balancing business with motherhood, and creating a company rooted in trust, friendship and purpose. 🌟Like, comment and subscribe for more honest conversations about purpose, resilience, love, loss and beginning again. Follow us here: 📸www.instagram.com/beginagain  🎥https://www.tiktok.com/@beginagainpod  ✨Sign up for the Begin Again newsletter for behind-the-scenes access, recommendations and much more: https://linkly.link/2g2xm  We'd love you to share your Get Busy Living stories with us at https://getbusyliving.beginagainshow.com/ (00:00) Intro (01:04) Davina's Gratitude For Mint Velvet And Liz (02:02) Working For Topshop (04:20) Leaving Her First Fashion Job After 20 Years (05:55) Starting Mint Velvet (10:36) Balancing Entrepreneurship And Motherhood (12:34) Garnier Ad (14:26) Monzo GBL Ad (21:36) Getting The Call About Her Son's Accident (29:15) Donating His Organs (32:43) How Her Son Lives On (36:49) Monzo 90 Days Ad (37:59) Check In On Those Who Are Grieving (39:30) What To Do And Say With Someone Who Is Grieving (45:01) Grieving As A Family (52:33) Reaching Out To Her Son's Organ Recipients (54:38) Fixing The Problems With Organ Donation (57:56) How Liz's Donor Initiative Lives On (01:02:51) A Letter To Liz (01:05:19) Her Son's Foundation Sponsored by: Download Monzo. Monzo Current Accounts are for 16+ and UK residents. Ts&Cs Apply. Join the 'Say Yes Club' and hear more about our events here - https://events.beginagainshow.com/  You could get back less than you invest. Monzo current account required. Monzo investments are for UK residents, 18+. Ts&Cs apply. Garnier Nutrisse: UK's NO1 hair dye, chosen by 2 million women. Davina is shade 5 Mocha Brown. Find yours: www.garnier.co.uk/our-brands/hair-colour/nutrisse-creme Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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This noise came out for me. And I just like literally crumbled. I have just had the most amazing conversation with the wonderful Liz Houghton. Never say no to an opportunity because life is too short. So when four of us set up mint velvet, I knew I had to take it on. It was just amazing. Like, pinch me. And then I get a call when I'm at work.

The police are coming to get you. Oh, Will's had a cycling accident. This perfect world that I had was just. taken in a second. My 20-year-old son wasn't going to live. But it's one message that comes through so clearly. Hold on to the people that you love. Tell them, show them, be there for each other. He donated every single organ that he had. He's gone, but he's not forgotten. We're never going to get Will back, but we're not going to forget him, and he's going to have an impact on others. Oh my goodness. Because life can literally change in a

heartbeat and sometimes it's that love that gives us the strength to begin again. This is howlton. I'm really excited to be sat in front of you today because you've made me feel amazing without even knowing it. Mint Velvet is one of my favorite brands. I have not been paid to say this. You are not sponsoring this show. I buy your clothes. You have a shop in my high street in my town. We love Tumbridge Wales. Yeah. So I just want to say thank you. I'm not. Thank you for making us feel so special. Well, I'm glad you feel like that, because to be honest, that is the whole point of when we set up mint velvet. It was actually not just about designing clothes, but it is actually what women feel like.

Yes. Because clothes are just so powerful, aren't they? Yes. Because if you feel good, you sort of feel like you can take on the world. And if you're out for it, sight, you're wrong. It's like, I don't know about you, but I sometimes just don't have that confidence. So I kind of think that's what we wanted to do. So the fact that you really feel that, that is a massive, massive compliment, thank you.

Now, Arcadia, I'm dying to ask you, and I don't know if you can speak of him, but like Philip Green, because that was like the Philip Green era. You know what? I left before he was there. Oh! I know, sorry. I can give you no dirt. Okay, God, I'm sorry. But you know what?

Wait, what I'm really missing, what I have missed so much was Topshop. Well, my first job, right? My first job was Top Shop. What were you doing? So my first, well, when I did my rotation, my buying rotation was in Topshop. So wait, was that when it was Burton Group? Yes. So did you know Ralph Halpin?

He was there for about, I think, maybe five months and then he left. Oh, okay. But what was really exciting is the weeks I was in Top Shop, it was above 214 in Oxford Street. Yes. And it was so exciting because you'd put something in the store and you'd get a read literally that day. And it was when Pepsi and Shirley, I don't know if you remember this. They did the puffball skirt.

Yes. And we bought, I think, something like 50 of a few different colours. We put them in 214, Oxford Street. They sold out in a day. And it was just so exciting. And then it was just this buzz of like, the suppliers running in. And honestly, it was just the best job. And I loved every minute.

And what was even better, it was on the same floor as Air Studios. Which was where Paul McCartney was coming up in the lift, Elton John. Yeah. And it was just a. Pinch me moment every day. I was like, I love this job. So basically, I knew I had to keep this job. So I knew I had to do so well. So I was that girl that was going around and saying, you know, what can I do? How can I be more helpful? So yeah, it was a brilliant time. How long were you there? Not at Topshop. So you get moved around a few different divisions.

But I was there in Arcadia when it was burnt to Arcadia, about nearly 20 years. But the group that I was with got bought and sold a few times. Right. So that is the only downside of when you're in that sort of corporate world is sometimes if you're part of a really great brand, that would be, you know, someone can see an opportunity and that brand gets sold off. So it was brilliant at times and I've had brilliant bosses and then I had some shocking bosses. So you learn so much about how to be a good manager and what not to do, you know, if you want to keep staff and motivate them. So what happened at the end of your relationship with our business? Well, it was actually not Arcade. It was another group that had bought. Yeah, had bought. And,

I just worked for a particularly tricky man. And it went into administration because what they'd done is the company that he worked for, it was basically a venture capitalist. And the Icelandic banks had backed them. And they kept putting debt in and taking equity out, which is what they do. But then in that 2008 crash, it all went under. And all of a sudden, that 20-year career just ended. There was no redundancy.

There was nothing. You didn't get redundancy. Didn't get anything. No. No. Oh my goodness. And the guy that told me that we were going to, as a management team and then I was going to have to tell everybody else that we were going to lose our job, et a sandwich as he told me.

I know. I just couldn't believe it. And it was almost like they were all fine because they knew it was going to happen. So callous. But the people that had been on like buying trips didn't get their expenses, suppliers didn't get paid. And these were suppliers that I had had a relationship. And Lisa, my business partner, she'd had a relationship with them in terms of they trusted us. And that was so hard. And literally we left, we went for a drink at a pub

around the corner and I said to Lisa, I'm never going to work for anyone else again. Because to me, trust is the most valuable thing you have in business. Yes. And if you can't have that, then what have you got? Yes. So, yeah, it was a bit of a light bulb moment. But at the same time, we were shocked. So I wasn't rushing off to do something, but I was like, I'm not going to work for anyone else again. But is that where the idea was born? Well, funny enough. As you've mentioned Lisa. Yes. Well, there was Lisa and Jane who worked on the design side and I'd worked with these girls for years and I absolutely rated them and a young man called Stuart Grant as well. And the sort of four of us, we got on really well. And I knew that I wanted to do something. But the

most important thing was working with people that I rated and liked because I was going to spend time with them. And so really, before I had the idea of what we were going to do, it's what sort of company were we going to have. Yeah. The feeling. Yeah, the feeling. And they were all, I mean, Stuart was already in another job by then. Lisa was going for jobs. Jane was going for jobs. But I just couldn't write a CV because I just thought, no one is going to give me what I actually want because I had three young children. I wanted flexibility. I wanted, I didn't want someone else to draw the framework. I wanted to sort of have my own values in this company. So I luckily had worked for some great people before.

And so I went to these people and I actually said to them, I've got an idea that I want to run my own company. Would you back me if I came up with a concept? And they said, absolutely, which was amazing because they'd been so inspirational. Who gets that? I know. Who gets that? I've had an idea that I might do something.

Would you back me? I know. Whatever you do, I'll back you. But that says a lot about you. Yeah. Yeah. And be the person that people want to back whatever you do. Well, you know what the other thing is. sort of mantra I live by, which is what my dad, talking about picture of your dad,

and I'm sure your dad gave you some of these, was nothing ventured, nothing gained. And that has always stayed with me. So what's the worst he could have said? No. Okay, fine. But he said yes. So we sat around my kitchen table coming up with, okay, we know we want to run a business that we like people that we work with, we're energized, we're not going to talk spreadsheets,

we're going to talk customer and we're going to talk product. Oh, God. So that's so interesting. So it wasn't like what business didn't want to do. It's the time. We knew it was fashion. It's the framework. We knew it was definitely fashion.

100% fashion because I absolutely loved the job. Yeah, I was going to say. So yeah, absolutely knew it was fashion. We knew we wanted to do something different. So Lisa and Jane, we sat around my kitchen table and we're like, you know, what are we going to do? And I think we all just had this light bulb moment where we said, where are we buying our clothes? And I was like, well, I'm completely lost. And, you know, Jane was like the cool designer.

and she wanted something different and Lisa's definitely a bit more dressy I was a bit more cash and we're like well we're sort of outgrown top shop now you know our bodies need a bit more quality we don't want jersey that you know sucks you in exactly but we weren't ready for those slightly more mature brands let's say

and there was this sort of code word yes bit mumsy bit mumsy yes the mature So I wanted something that had, you know, when you went into Topshop and did you remember coming down those escalators? And that literally that overwhelming feeling of like, oh my God, I just want everything in here. Yes. I wanted that but for me, you know, and it's like, where is that? And also I wanted a boutique that was a bit like, you know, go into a beautiful boutique and it's got a smell and it's got texture and it's not just a shopping centre shop that's just white and has no salt. So I wanted to have a sort of a bootie. that sort of gave you a bit of a hug as you walked in. So I was like, but why are they always so expensive? Why can't they be good prices?

So I want the feeling of Topshop with a quality, with a service that doesn't come at a ridiculous price. So we're like, yeah, that's what we're going to do. Let's have a mash-up of our styles, which were sort of relaxed, hint a glamour, a little bit of cool. And so we came up with relaxed glamour. And that was our sort of... Such a brilliant...

Yeah. That relaxed glamour. Yeah. Is that not what everyone wants? It looks effortless. Yes. Well, it's the effortlessness that actually takes time, doesn't it? Yes. And also, I don't, I remember your life must have been like this at the same time,

which, you know, dropping kids off at school, going to work, might have a meeting, but then might go out for a drink afterwards. So I needed clothes that went that whole spectrum. So that meant they had to be comfy because I couldn't be all day like that, trust up in something uncomfortable. they had to be that sort of polished but I didn't want uptight. Yeah. You know, so how did I get that through the day?

And we just knew when we started to tell people that, the reaction we got immediately was like, that's the hole that I have in my wardrobe. It is interesting that the demand was absolutely there. Oh my God. Because I think the way your business popped off. Yes. Is proof that there was a massive gaping chasm that mint velvet filled in an instance.

Yeah. It was actually really scary how quickly. Okay, so taught me through that because everybody goes, oh, but you must have been so happy and look at you. It's so easy for you. It just like it straight away. But actually, there is a place where it can expand too quickly. Yes, it absolutely did. I mean, when people say they work 24-7 when you do a startup, you absolutely do. Yes. It's your morning, noon and night.

I mean, and part of going into the business was having some control of your hours a little bit. So if you did want to go and watch your kids play hockey or rugby, you could, but you'd make up in the evening. You know, that was the whole idea. But when we started this business, because the other thing is, you know, I'd sort of left as a director. So I'd had a PA. You know, I hadn't done anything for myself for about 10 years. So I sort of did. How do you write again?

So what was brilliant was that the four of us had to go right back to the beginning. Basics. We had no office. We had nowhere to hang the clothes up. I mean, Oh my God. Lugger. It was the summer.

Yeah. So on the lawn in my back garden, we were like, okay, that's the top. That's the gene. I was running in, trying it on. It was the summer holidays. The kids were running in and out. And how old are your kids at this point? Will was 14.

Tom was 13. And I think Sophie was about eight. These are demanding ages. Yeah. You know, it's like I want to do this club. They watch to get involved with the girls. Could they draw as well? Which, as you know, you don't really want help us.

Sweet, but no. Please, but no. Yeah. How long's it been going for, mint velvet, now? I actually hate saying this because it makes me realise how old I am, but it is going to be 17 years in October.

And I still think with a new kid on the block, and it's so, you know, when you go somewhere, you think, oh, you know, we just started off. It's like that's 17 years. This segment was sponsored by Garnier. Oh, lady over there. Hi. What's your name?

Shoshana. Shoshana. We've got a colleague at work, Emma, who wants to have. her hair coloured. I'm trying to find somebody to come with me to come and colour her hair with some Garnier Nutris at work. Yeah, why not? Would you really? Follow me, follow me. So this is the Begin Again studio and this is Emma! Shoshana seemed really confident she has coloured her friend's hair and stuff before.

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That's amazing, are you pleased with it? Do you like it? Love, love, love, love, love. How confident are you now out of 10? Oh, 10 out of 10. That was a lot simpler than I thought I'm so pleased. We did a thing. Thank you.

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I wanted to know what that thing was for you. So let's have a look and see who we've got. Okay, so this one's from Dom, and Dom is finally learning steel drums. I've always loved the steel pan instrument. For years, I've wanted to know how to play, but I've always put it off. But I met someone from Trinidad,

and he encouraged that everyone should have a go and get involved. So I did. And there I was, stood in a group lesson at the tender age of 37 learning twinkle twinkle little star. And I loved it. It's also really satisfying to pick up something new in your 30s. I think too easy just to settle for the things that you know and not put yourself out of your comfort zone. So trying that really gave me a taste for more. That was so amazing because I think when you said to get out of your comfort zone at 37,

I think this is the thing that stops us doing the things we want to do. It's a fear of looking foolish, which I think gets greater as we get older. And I think the brilliant thing when something makes you feel that good, you know, when you've had your first lesson, then you're like, I want more of that. So let's do this. Let's say yes more. In fact, I'm going to make it happen right now. I'm calling it the say yes club.

We're going to take one thing we've always wanted to do and we are actually going to do it. So I'm going to put a link in the description for you to come and join us because that's exactly the thing that Monzo is here to help with. They put our money to work in the background, sorted, saved, sent where it needs to go, so our energy is free to say yes to more things in life. Monzo Current accounts are for UK residents, age 16 plus Tis and C's Apply. I also quite quickly want to talk to you because I think this programme is a lot about like beginning again in terms of constantly shifting the goalpost and where you're at and what you're doing.

And you were talking about people saying, well, you know, obviously you've sold a chunk of the business. You could retire. Yeah. Like, why do you want to keep working? Can you just explain to me what you get from, because you could conceivably, you know, hang up your togs, your clothes, your stilettos. And retire and go and travel the world or do whatever you want with your husband. But you choose to stay plugged in. Yeah.

Like what would you advise people to do? Yeah, I think I'm very lucky because I do try and have a blend, so I still do want to do. Because again, that whole other mantra my dad had, along with the other one, which I can't remember what it was now, is life's not rehearsal. And so I do want to travel as well. So I'm a bit of a, I have to do everything.

So I would say I'm in the fortunate position of having a blended life in that I still very much run the business, but I do, I never say no to an opportunity because I know only too well, life is too short. So because I have my dad's like life's not a rehearsal, I try and do everything, which makes me a very busy person. But work to me is literally part of my DNA. And it's because of the people I work with.

It's because of the brand that we've created together, which really is quite special. And it is the fact that, you know, I was talking to these two managers on this Zoom court, and one was in Truro, and then we've got one in Aberdeen. And they both talk about this brand as if it's, their brand. And to have that connection with people that far away, you just think, you know, I've got to keep making sure I'm protecting this for you. But also I think, you know, I'm excited

about the future. Like it's such an exciting business to be part of. And I wish more people thought about retail. It is such a fun business to go into. It's interesting with this whole talk at the moment about longevity and everybody is looking at how many hours they're sleeping and what pills they're popping but I feel like you're just doing brilliantly just being happy yes you are living a happy life yes doing something you love doing yeah you're fit I can see that arms are yeah so much the rest well you you look not panning down oh I just say you look incredible thank you so do you look absolutely knock out when I came in you were my inspiration my divina in 15 putting the cassettes in fit in 15 but I think you

You got that because by doing it in those days, 15, 20, the seven-minute fitness, you were talking to me because I am the person. We were both busy, right? Well, I want it all. And another one is, you know, have your cake and eat it. Why not? You know, I want to be fit. I want to be a good mother. I want to enjoy my job.

You know, I want to be there. I mean, my kids might say sometimes, you know, I'm not always there and like once I get onto an email. But I try and do it all. And I think if you are organised and you're focused and you're focused and you're. and you have a good team. And that's the most important thing. I couldn't do this without a great husband, you know, a great team around me.

And if you've got that, then yeah, you can do it all, I think. You just talked about your kids, and my kids take the piss out of me when I'm walking and I quickly, I feel a ping. Something comes back and it is something I do kind of need to look at, but I can't walk and text and something at the tech. get pissed ripped out of me. Yes.

But I then also think, what am I doing? Yeah. Put it away. Yes. I know. I talk to myself because I can't. I'm exactly the same. I'm like, don't bring it to the table.

Put it in the bag. And I'm like, it's in the bag. It's in the bag. It's not in the table. It's talking to you. So, yes, it is. But how did you, how, for any, like, working parents out there, how did you find a balance? I actually think the phone gave me the balance, funny enough, because it meant I could take

the office to the sports field. So I actually think modern technology help women more than they would ever know. Because if I did have to like shoot off a few hours here, I could do something in the evening. You know, I could do something on the way to work. So all of a sudden, I was fitting things in. And I think if you can do that, then you're a really efficient person. So I always, I've never seen technology as a bad thing. But I do get it now that it's now without me knowing it.

probably have done a little bit, you know, maybe I've gone into that world too deep. And sometimes I think, you know, could I do a whole day without it? I'm not actually ever trying, but I probably ought to. Do you know what, Ruby Wax came on this podcast and she blew my mind talking about silent retreats? I know. I've heard about those. I'd be very scared. I mean, I am terrified. Yes, I am terrified. It feels so challenging to me. Does it feel like that too? Well, not talking to anybody, not talking to yourself, not having inspiration or, and also like, I think we just said, the connectivity. So yeah, it scares me beyond that. And also, I don't know if I want to be just in my own head.

That's a place to go. And this is what I wanted to talk to you about next, because I know that you went through an unthinkable trauma. Yeah. You lost one of your children. And I just feel like sometimes that is when you're thinking, I can't, I shouldn't be alone too much because I just can't, can't go there. It was Will, your oldest son. Could you explain what happened? Well, I sometimes really sort of play those sort of end of 2025, 2015, sorry, years in my head, because that is when we first sold the first stake in Mintville.

of it. And so can you imagine it's like all of that work came and I took the three kids and my husband and we all went to New York in December and we just had the best time and Sophie my daughter her birthday is the same day as mine and we had it out there and we just had the best time. It was just amazing and I was like pinch me. This is like amazing. And then seven weeks after that I get a call when I'm at work and it's my husband and he said Will's had a cycling accident. And I was like, oh, okay. He was just at university on a training ride. And he often fed off his bike because he was obsessed with cycling. So we'd been used to this. You know, we'd been used to the grazes and all those sorts of things. It's a road bike. It's a road bike.

Yeah, yeah. And I was like, okay. And he said, so the police are coming to get you. And I was like, oh, so this is another level. He's like, yeah, they're going to come and they're, he was in London. And your husband hadn't any information either. He just thought that it was a bad accident. Yes. Well, he knew when he was telling me I was thinking it was lighter, but he knew that the police were coming. So they picked him up in London and they picked me up in our offices or in High Wycom. And he picked me up. And I just remember being like all of a bit of a, you know, a wobble.

And I was in the office with the girls and thinking, you know, oh, I'm sure it's fine. They've come to get us. So I knew it must be urgent. So I was thinking it's serious. But I wasn't thinking, you know, it was going to be terminal as it were. and when they arrive and they put me in the back of the police cart they then basically is it blued and to do whatever you call it all the way down and he was in Portsmouth University and so that is a on a good day

that's a you know an hour and 15 hour and 20 minute journey I mean we were it felt like we were there in half an hour all the way down the motorway and I was phoning my brother who was a doctor and I was sort of saying and he was actually on a conference I think in Europe at the time and I was you know going through all these thoughts and I was like okay, so if he's disabled, he'd be really good at the Paralympics because he's so driven, so that's going to be fine. And, you know, we're going to do this and we're going to do this.

And then in the back of my head, I kept thinking, if it is the worst, I'm going to revolutionise how cycling is on road. So basically, why are cyclists and motorists on the same piece of tarmac? Shouldn't happen. You know, why, as a civilised country, can we not have cycle paths away from road? you know so I was going through literally because I am sort of a project manager of any kind of stress so I was going through all these things we get to Southampton Hospital and I get out of the car and I can't stand literally I can't stand and I was like oh I didn't realize that I sort of go through all these things and I just couldn't stand so these lovely two police officers sort of held me up

and took me into the hospital and I got ushered into a small room and, you know, this sort of size. And the nurse came and she said, oh, you know, sit down, make a cup of tea. And, you know, the doctor would be with you in a minute. So we were sitting there and he came in and he said, and it was quite a young guy. And I remember thinking, gosh, you're really young. You know what you say about policeman? And this young doctor came in, but he was a consultant.

And he said, so what have you heard? And I said, well, I know we've had a very serious cycling accident. And he said, well, I've got to tell you, it's unsurvivable. And he just said that. And honestly, you know when you see things on the TV where you see somebody let out a noise when you hear something, like terrible grief, I thought that that was just theatre. I didn't think that that existed.

But this noise came out of me. And I just like literally crumbled. Because unsurvivable, it's not even a, well, we're unsure, he's in a coma. So I knew he was still breathing. But he's not going to live. It's not even that he might have some sort of damage. He's not going to live. And then he just left the room.

And I was left with these nurses. And it's just like, you know, this perfect world that I had was just literally in, you know, a second just taken. So it was just unbelievable. But what I had done on the way down, I'd called my second son, Tom, who's only 13 months younger than Will, who was at the same university. So Tom had already got there and unspurnown to me had already been told this news on his own. Can you imagine? So when my husband got there and I was already in with Will at this stage, when my husband got there, Tom made sure that he told my husband rather than us having that experience because he knew that he had to soften it. It's on my husband. And then we went through and we sat with Will who looked perfect. He looked, he told me that he'd had a

his hair cut the night before and that I'd absolutely hate him because he always had it too short at the sides. And there he was with his really short hair, but he just looked so perfect and he was breathing. And I just couldn't get over how my really handsome 20-year-old son was just lying in this hospital vet and he wasn't going to live. So it was, it was just so hard. And we had two or three days with him. The rest of the family came down and I'm one of four. So my wonderful brothers and sister came down, sisters came down, some really close friends, Will's girlfriend, and everybody came to say there, goodbyes to Will. And unbeknownst to me at the time, the transplant unit were with us the whole time. Because when we started towards them, I was like, I want

to save, or my husband thought the same thing, we want to save every part of Will's body because he was so fit. He had avocado all the time. He never drunk, he didn't smoke, he He wanted to be a professional cyclist. He was so unbelievably fit. So I said, you know, that boy's organs are just perfect. And I didn't realize I was actually talking to a transplant nurse at the time. And they did it so beautifully because they never asked me, but they were there when I needed them. And it was just, it was so well done.

It was for an awful situation. and we had that time to say goodbye to Will and my daughter was brought down by my mum was still alive at that time who was 85 who just couldn't believe it and we all were together and we all said our goodbyes to Will and then he went off and had

I think something like 12 he donated every single organ that he had because he had had a blow to the head an old lady in her 60s just didn't see him and she just mowed into the back of him and he'd hit his head so he'd just had a very

intense blow to the skull but the rest of his body was absolutely fine when you talk about the transplant nurse being there will had actually opted in could you just explain to people

at the time it was a different time to now yeah you definitely He had to have a card. And the funny thing about, well, is he did like talking about mortality and the meaning of life. He was such a deep, intense kind of guy, but lovely in light at the same time. So he had had a guy that had had a heart attack that he'd cycled with that was 45. And I remember him coming in to see me in the kitchen, him saying, Mum, can you believe so-and-so?

He's died on his bike. And isn't that awful? And what about what will he do with his body? and he was just really sort of attuned to those sorts of things. And it was then that he got an organ donating card. And we actually talked about it. So he was so into that type of thing. You know, he always was a very giving kind of boy.

So I knew that that's what he wanted. But some parents, even though they have got a card, some parents do not want to give the permission because I think the NHS are so aware that the loved one has gone and so it's really the living that have to live with that pain so if that's something they don't want

they are actually very respectful so even now even though it is opt-in parents can still say no it's quite difficult that it is it's really hard and to be honest I didn't even know what I thought beforehand like I hadn't really gone there

so I didn't know that I would be so passionate about it and I was like you've got to save this I couldn't have anything wasted of will and I because number one I knew that's what he wanted but secondly he was perfect you know he had but he had amazing lungs so I knew nothing could go can I can I ask you something I'm not sure we've said how old he was because he was very young he's had all of this conversation with you about something quite major at such an early age he was 20 And the other thing, I've just thought of it.

He was obsessed with red nose days. Oh my God, there's so many links here. When we used to watch red nose days, he used to get so upset. And he was always saying to me, Mom, he donated. You have donated, haven't you? Like, you've got to donate, you know. Look at these kids. And if he saw, like, little kids in Africa, you know, that didn't have a family or whatever.

And for his 13th birthday, he said, could he actually not have any presents, but just have? adopt, because I think there was some sort of scheme going at the time. So we adopt it, not literally. A young lad in Africa. And we still, to this day, donate to that same organisation. I think that guy is now 30. So it's now transferred to other children. But that is the sort of guy he was.

He was so aware. So even when he was 13, he kind of got it. And he just knew that Will would have achieved so much. So that's why I couldn't have his history just ending there. So I wanted his organs to go on and have another life because that's what he would have wanted. And, you know, that's what he did. As a parent to anybody that is experiencing a child at the end of their lives

and you are struggling with this idea about your child being taken apart but that was the child's wish. Yes. How did you not think about it like that? Because I love the way you think about it. He lives on. Yes. His legacy lives on.

It's funny because actually, even though Will was alive when we got there and he was alive in the bed, he was clinically dead. They were keeping him alive. Right. So I knew my will wasn't in there. Yeah, he'd gone.

So my will had left. But he's a little. organs were there. And it's funny because I'm actually not religious, but I do really feel Will's spirit with me always. So it is, it is, you know, and that's why I did bonus I can never really be with my head on my own, because there is so many conflicting thoughts. So the Will I knew wasn't there. So I was happy that his body was going to go through that process because Will wasn't there. But Will has subsequently, you know, he's in my heart and he's in my head, the time. Like he would completely lose his shit that I'm talking to you.

Hello. That red nose, it'd be like, that's the one for a red nose. You know, so he would, and he would sort of love it, because I think he always thought he might be a famous cyclist. So, to be honest, the fact that we're talking about will, he would love. Well, I mean, you wouldn't want to be in these circumstances, but he would love that. So I hear him all the time. He's having a lot of conversations with me.

I talk sometimes about trusting our gut. Oh my God, I'm such a good feeling. And Michael's always said to me, Michael, my husband has always said to me, but before you trust your gut, you've got to make sure your gut's in good shape. And I feel like your gut is in amazing shape. But what I used to do is I used to sit on the edge of my bed and ask my sister a question. And she would answer. And partially, I think that was my heart.

my God. But partially, I think it was like, I know what she'd say to me. You've had to almost have a little bit of her in you because she's not here. So you're taking her thoughts. And you? Yeah, and I'm doing the same. And I had our drive done shortly after who died. And he would have absolutely hated it because it went from tarmac that he could, you know, cycle on easily to these old cobbled like stones.

And they go really slippy in the winter. And I just knew I could him say, mum. And I said, yeah, but you're not actually on that bike anymore. So I thought I could. But I could, I could have an argument with myself because, and I'm sure it's the same, you know, because we didn't always agree. You know, like. Or haircut. Yeah.

You know, and were you saying that about seeing his hair when he was lying there was very touching? I think it's that little connection. Yeah. I think also I was very lucky. I had seven weeks to say goodbye to my sister. They were the greatest seven weeks in my life. Yes. We said a lot of unfinished business.

You know, we finished drew a line under a lot of things. I had the same thing with my father. My father died the day before my 21st birthday. And he had stomach cancer. And they said he'd lived for six months, three months. And he actually lived for six. And honestly, I got to know my father on a whole other level. And to your point, like, I see that as such a precious time.

and even though he again he died far too young I had experienced what that was like so I already had a slight understanding of what that was going to feel like and I think you had the same before your sister didn't you as well so you sort of in some ways you know what you sort of need to do in order to survive I think

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Find out more at Cadillac Canada.ca. Luxury sales claim based on S&P Global Mobility, Canadian New Vehicle Total Registrations for calendar year 2025 for the Cadillac definition of luxury. I think anybody listening to your story is that, thanks to you, I called my daughter's boyfriend's mum, whose husband died very suddenly in his sleep at a conference. Oh, Mike.

Oh. Because it reminded me. to keep calling. Yes, yes. Because it never goes away. That is so true. And that whole, well, I think there's a couple of things, like never have any regrets. Like Will and I didn't fall out. You know, we taught the night before. Like never, ever. You know, that whole don't go to bed on an argument because you don't know what's around the corner. How important is that, please? Yes. Yeah. You know, you'd have a great relationship with your son and how grateful are you for that now. 100% but also to always check in with people particularly like I always say I am a little bit of a crap friend being a busy person I'm not always like you know I'm not always sort of like oh we must go for coffee again but I'm always there if somebody needs me and when someone is going through something tricky I like to think that I am there for them because you know that just that little message that says thinking about you or I absolutely love it when somebody sees a cyclist even now and says saw a cyclist today made me think of world.

Or, oh my God, I went on a sunset and saw this Or someone does a ride for his foundation or something You know, all those little precious moments And you think it is those checking-ins that are so important Another thing that people have sometimes said that they love When somebody suddenly lost someone And I don't know if this was the same for you Was when somebody sends you a photograph that you've never seen before

Oh, my God. Of your son and you're like, oh, yeah, I've been gifted. Yes, yes. over again. We've got a lovely friend called Dave who seems to have taken more pictures than I ever realised, who I would say easily every six months, he sends me a picture. And I'm like, where did that come from? And another friend of mine, Sue, she sent me one the other day of Will playing tennis

when he was about four. And I was like, I just love those. And I, you know, it's the pictures and it's just someone saying his name. Yeah. Just somebody in a text. You know, like, you know, there's things like, you know, you can imagine now, a lot of his friends, they're going through their 30s, they're getting married, having children. You know, they're all tricky times when your chart's not doing those things.

And it's just people, like, we had some friends that got married and they, their whole, they said they didn't want a wedding list and everybody's to give a donation to Wales Foundation. And it's things like that, little things, or even just somebody mentioning his name and his speech. And it's like, he's gone, but he's not forgotten. And that is just so important, whereas so many people think, oh, I won't, I won't mention Will because it'll upset her. And it's like, no, not mentioning it will upset to me. Let's just touch on that because people don't know. No, then they don't. What to say?

They don't know how to react. Yeah. And it's so interesting, some people literally will cross the street. Oh, my God, I've had those. Richard E. Grant talked about that. I've had those. To just avoid the conversation. Yes, yes.

And then other people who you least expect from check-in. Yeah. What advice can you give people who just don't know how to broach it? What did you need and how would, how should they go about asking their friends? I do agree. And to be honest, I think before Will, you know, I don't know. I mean, lucky, well, not lucky, but, you know, obviously I'd gone through this before with my father. So I did sort of know.

But I totally understand that people don't. I think the most important thing is people will tell you. what they want on the whole. Could you do that? So I'd say first off, if somebody's lost somebody, please acknowledge it. That is the most important thing.

And then if some people, if you do start talking about it, and I have got a friend who lost their son by a different way, and they don't want people to talk to them about it. And that happened soon after Will's accident, actually. And I completely respected that.

But I would say the majority of people, and I have read literally every book there is on, like literally after Will's, I think for maybe three years, I just got every book on bereavement. Because I just wanted to read other people's stories and like, is there a way to like fathom this, understand it? And people are so good at sharing their, I don't know, the way they articulate how they feel, because it's very hard to articulate how you feel. But I mention Will's name all the time. And I think when people see that I'm mentioning his name, they feel more comfortable mentioning his name. But I will.

would always say, never, ever ignore it. And somebody said to me, I didn't want to bring up because I didn't want to upset you. And I was like, okay, the biggest thing has happened already. I'm already upset. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anything you say cannot upset me. What really upsets me is ignoring it. And I met somebody, and I think it was about three or four weeks after Will died,

and I met him and his wife in a store. And he said nothing, and he knew. And we just talked about the weather. We moved on. and I went round the corner and I literally wept because it was the most painful thing like he knew what I'd gone through

and he didn't say anything you know and to be honest it could have just been a squeeze it could have just been a squeeze or a arm squeeze or I know and I don't know you don't have to you know because what you don't want is you don't want over sympathises either

you know I don't want that's like a grief thief yes I'm going to be grieving almost more than you and now it makes it difficult And you know what? I didn't have any of those, but I've heard of those. Yes. And I think they are just as bad. I didn't have those.

But, you know, I think they call it grief competitiveness, don't they? And I didn't have those, luckily enough. But I think just don't ignore it because that is the worst thing. And I just love it. You know, there was a friend of Wales, who's now a really good friend, Tom's, had a birthday book. And everybody was right and how wonderful this boy George was. And it wasn't called Boy George. He's a boy called George.

George was for his 30th. And there was two mentions of Will in there. And I was reading this book all about how wonderful George was. But there were two little words of Will in there because I thought Will's never going to have the 30th. And it was really small and probably nobody else noticed. But I was like, do you know what? A little... Part of it.

Yeah, there was a little hands clapping in my heart. I was like, oh. Because, you know, I want people to be talking about him when he should have been, you know, he would have been 31 now. but when he's 41, when he's 51, you know, and I don't want him ever not to be part of the conversation because Will always wanted to be part of the conversation. Because he was one of those quisitive, you know, we talked before about kids that are curious, quizzative.

He was all of those in abundance. I'd really like to ask you a bit of advice on a family situation when one very important, well, every member of a family is important. But when somebody dies, you know, Will had Sophie and Tom he had his mum and dad but you are all collectively grieving but sometimes in slightly different ways

I mean what's the stat on relationships surviving the child the death of child Well I didn't know this at a time but somebody put me in touch with a vicar which was weak because I wasn't I'm not really religious I went to see this and I don't know why

but I think partly you've lost all your bearings I mean can I just tell you something when something like that happens I think I just fucking chuck everything that's it You know, I don't go anywhere. My husband and I were sitting there and we were both a bit like, what?

Why are we here? We did have a nice cup of tea. Yeah, it was nice. But in some ways, she put it in a very blunt way. But what it did do, it was a wake-up call because what she actually said was 75% of couples don't stay together after the death of a child. Which I thought was actually at the time, you're leading in with a, you know, you've not gone, you've gone tea and then you've gone straight into that. We're going some. but it actually was the wake-up call we needed

because the bizarrest of things had happened maybe two months before that I wanted to make sure that Mint Velvet had had some charities that we supported so I know this is going to a bit left field but it does connect so we came up with a women's charity we came up with an environmental charity

we came up with a young people's charity and we wanted a local charity and the local charity I chose was child bereavement UK because they were around the corner they had a head office and I just thought I can't imagine losing a child and my very first day of what should have been fundraising

with the chief executive turned into our first day of counselling after we lost will because after the vicar said that I thought we're going to need help then yeah and so again weird that I'd had chosen that charity and that was the first time I came across child bereavement but I think it was a wake-up call, realizing that, you know, I could, I knew how I felt as losing as the mum,

but my husband grieved incredibly differently. Sophie had lost her big brother. You know, Tom had lost, really, what was his twin? I mean, they were 13 months apart. They were at the same university. So close an age, weren't they? You know, it was like, it was all going to be different. And as much as we were a really close family,

how were we going to deal with this? I struggled with my mum at the beginning because she was 85. She was still here and Will wasn't. And I adored my mum. She was like the perfect person. So all of these things, I didn't quite know how I was going to navigate them. And I've got to say, child bereavement, who was set up by Julia Samuels, was an absolute lifeline. And to this day, Rich and I are patrons of their charity.

They do wonderful work. And I would say to anybody that has lost a child, you need them. You might not think you need them, but you need them. Because for some strange reason, sitting in a room with the husband that you know so well or a partner you know so well. But hearing his thoughts said to a third person that had knowledge of what other people in that situation had gone through, I listened in a way that I wouldn't listen. You know that whole husband and wife listening where you don't. Yes. And I did proper listening.

It is really important. It is. With helping you deal with that. And how annoying it is when you're like, but don't you understand? Why are you doing that? Why are you cleaning the carpet? Or just stuff that you're thinking, I can't. How can you do that?

I can't. Well, that was our main rub because at one stage she said to me, Liz, I think you might be project managing grief. Because I was like setting up a foundation. I was going to, you know, the NHS. I was, I'm like, okay, I've got to do things. Yeah. And my husband's like, I want to go and smash someone in the face.

Because I'm so cross. I'm so angry. And, you know, so we just took it so differently, even though he did have those times as well. But initially, you know, we were just very different people. And it was really hard because also you were so nice. numb. Yes. You know, and like we were just going through the motions.

You know, we were just making the dinner. The kid, Sophie was going to school. Tom was doing this. You know, just people came around. I cooked them dinner. We went off to, I went back to work. Can I just say something? I think the idea that as somebody grieving, that anybody would come around and let you cook dinner.

No, to be fair, people did do a lot of, I had great friends. I had left at the door. But even so, you know, we'd have. you still You want to be normal, right? 100%. And I remember one day I was walking along

in London going to meet a friend and I had to just stop myself and hold on to a I think it was some railings or something and I thought, hold a minute my son has just died and I'm going about living. I can't actually make sense of it

and I kept thinking to myself how do you make sense of this? Like I was literally talking to him and now he's not here It's like that is not possible. How is that possible? And I've realised you will never make sense of it. You can never make sense of it.

And don't even try. So you have to go on a whole other road. Yeah. Which is the road that we are on. I mean, he did this amazing gift, benevolent gift of giving himself to others to carry on living. Yeah. Could you just talk me through this amazing experience of people, getting in contact with you who received part of Will.

Yeah. And how do people do that? Yeah. How did they find you? But what did it feel like for you? I feel like there probably is a sort of a, it's probably a documentary in here actually, which is the nursing staff when we lost Will were brilliant.

And I had this lovely lady, a transplant nurse called Nikki, and she was just wonderful. So they sort of hold your hands through it all and afterwards. They keep in touch with you. And then they sent us this lovely letter, maybe a month later to say, you know, a little boy, two's got part of his, his liver was so healthy that it went to two people. It went to a little boy who was two. It went to a girl who was about 20, I think, as well. His heart had gone to a guy who was 50. So you know where

it goes. Yeah. And they would, and they would tell you things like, you know, this father of three girls has never been on holiday. He's never been able to do this. You know, he's got this. and I think it was about 12 people one didn't work quite early on which obviously is sometimes the way I think his lungs went to two different people as well so he helped so many people 12 people

even his corneas skin some of his cells went to like to you know not experiments research I asked my words

and so it's fantastic I was like great and then nothing never hear anything again I was like so every few months I was like hi Nikki I was like

has anybody said like thank you or like I don't want to get in touch I don't want to meet them can I just clarify there yeah it's not that you want thanks it's that

oh yeah you want to know the difference like I can now have a life yeah yeah anyway two years down the line, not a word. And then I had, so what they are very good at doing is they still send

you this quite anonymacy type of letter that says, now the man with the heart, he's now gone on holiday. He's now having a lovely time. I'm like, but no, thank you. And I thought, well, to be fair, he probably thinks he's going to upset me. I think that would make sense. I'll write to him. So I wrote to everybody. I don't know the addresses, it all goes into, because everything has to be anonymous. So you write your letters. Does it get sent to them? Yeah, got sent to them. So I sent the letters off. I then had one letter. I had no, had two letters back. One was from a mother. Honestly, it was the best letter ever. And it was like her two-year-old boy who had been so ill and so yellow and could never thought he'd go to school. Now had this wonderful, and she sent me these

lovely pictures in running around. Every night, they do a little prayer. And she said, we always thanked our donor but he never had a name and now we thank Will we do a prayer every night for Will and I was like do you know what that's the best thing because I said you know you can't upset me I want to know you're having the best life

and then another gentleman whose father couldn't speak English and he said when we left the hospital we thanked all the medical scarf but we didn't know how to thank the donor and the donor family and he said so thank you

so much for writing. And he said, my father and I just constantly, constantly say a thanks to Will. And I'm so happy to know that he would have approved of this. And so I thought, okay, we've got a problem here. They didn't know. They didn't know what to do. So I got in touch with NHS blood and transfusion, who were our lovely support system. And the CEO at the time said, do you know what, this is a problem we've got. 95% of families want to know. or even live donors want to know, and only 11% ever here. Wait, is that true? Yeah.

What? Yeah. So the disconnect. What? So the difference that it would make to the donor families. Yeah. Oh my God, 11%. I know.

So I said to her, well, could you take me on the journey? Like where is the business heading me? Where in this organisation is this falling down? because we've got people, you know, because if I can tell everybody about that little boy, that when another parent thinks twice about he's saying yes to an organ, when they hear my story, they'll say, actually, that helped her in a grieving process. Yes. That's going to help that whole circle.

So she said, do you want to come on board? You know, we would love to actually sort this problem out. And I said, absolutely. So I went out, had a few meetings with them. And I've got to say they were the loveliest people. But, you know, they are the NHS. And that's a different world. And I can say my brother being in the NHS was like, you know,

this is not going to be like setting mint velvet up list. No one's going to listen to what you say and do it straight away. But they were so lovely. But what I realised is that you have this one organisation that does all the donation and keeps it all sort of the coordination of who needs what, who's on what list, who comes available, all of those sorts of things. But then the recipient centres where these are the big hospitals that do like the hairfield,

they do all the big organisation of the, obviously the transplant. They are 32 individual hospitals. They have no connection. No connection. They are run in their own way. Self-contained. Yeah. So what we tried to do, and we met some wonderful nurses.

There was a lovely lady called Laura, I remember particularly. And she would come on board and she would say, well, you know, I give them a leaflet and I do this, and she said, but I don't think it's good enough. So we looked at the leaflet, we looked at the website. And the first thing in the leaflet was like, if you want to write and you don't have to, this is what you shouldn't say.

I was like, okay, we're starting from the wrong place. Yeah. We've got to start of 95% of people want to know. Yes. Okay? Yes. So we want to hear. And we're going to help you write that letter if you struggle.

Yes. So I did a video. which was awful. When I look at it now, I was like, no one should cry to video. But it was all about... Yeah, and it was all about why it was important to write. And that it's this virtuous circle.

If I can go around saying to people, did you know Will's heart's gone off around here? Did you know he achieved this? Did you know he went and did that? It'd be like, that is amazing. More people should donate because it makes you feel better in grief. How many people donate?

You know, that's a good parent, I don't know. Yeah. We need to find that out. I want to talk to you about someone. Yes. Andy Prigg. Oh, Andy Prigg. Can you tell me about Andy?

Yeah. Oh, sorry. Because I've only just met Andy. Yeah, he's an absolutely extraordinary young guy. So, Laura, who was talking about this wonderful nurse from the recipient site, sent me an email about two months ago and said, I've got this guy called Andy. And he's just had a liver and kidney transplant.

But he's training to be a doctor. And he wants to be a transplant surgeon. And I was like, oh, great. And she said, he saw your video about Will. And so he's written to his family and he's got an amazing story. I mean, just amazing doing medicine and having a liver and kidney transplant blew my mind. and she said he would like to get in contact with you because he knew about your, because we gave this whole way of trying to get in communication better,

get communication better. We called it Don't Forget the donor as an initiative. And she said, because we went for about three years of doing this. And we took it to as far as we could, I thought, without it becoming a negative thing. So I thought, you know, we've done our bit. We've taken it as far as we can. And he was like, I want to take it on. And I was like, I love that.

So we had a coffee together about three weeks ago and I did wonder if he might be a bit of a nerd actually I did tell him this because he's so clever. Can you imagine like being that ill and doing medicine? Yeah. Like how do you do that? And he'd done these transplant games and he'd won a gold medal cycling.

And I think... Cycling. I know. And he came in and he gave me his gold medal. Oh my God. And I was just literally like... blown away and honestly we got on so well and he was his gorgeous gorgeous like so overachieving individual like you know he's got a gold medal in cycling in the Transmunt Games the Olympic

Transmunt Games and he's doing this and then he wants to do research and then he's got this special play and he's like he is going to change this because the difference with him as opposed to myself is he is in the NHS he knows how to make that organisation work because there is a will but the simple scale of the NHS and just how life operates but he can get under the bonnet and he will be able to do this and not only will he be able to do it

because he knows it he's been on that side he knows what it's like and he's written to his family and funny enough he hasn't heard on the way back from the family from the family but he's fine with that

because he knows that they've got the letter from him and he writes every single year And so we said we'd keep in touch. And in fact, he texted me the other day with his pictures because he won the gold medal again, literally in Sheffield, like last week or two weeks again, two weeks ago. So, yeah, he is amazing.

And I can't believe you know that. Interesting is about this concept of, I always call it keeping your side of the street clean, that when he made contact, it's that he knew that that was the right thing to do. But how they tell whether he is up to them. Yes. But he knows that he's done the right thing.

He's helped them out. He's let them know how he is. Also, what happens sometimes in Long Lost Family, which is a TV show that I do where we contact people who may have had an incredibly difficult time and sometimes have left a foundling, you know, somebody where they didn't register their birth or anything. Yeah, yeah.

There's so much Shane attached to that. And we never know the feelings around someone, but sometimes if you let someone sit with something for long enough, something will happen six months, a year, two years, three years or four years down the line, and they'll go, I'm ready. And actually, that was the other thing we said in the Don't Forget the donor, which is even if it's been years, it's never too late because I'd never heard for many more than those two.

And, you know, it doesn't matter if it's, like I say, I would just love to know of the life that these people went on to have. And like I say, I don't want to meet them because they'll never meet my expectations because Will was perfect in my eyes. So they're not going to be like Will. But I just want to know that he made a difference to their lives. And that would make a difference to yours.

Yeah, so the fact that Andy wants to take that forward. And like I say, he is a man to watch because is that his handwriting as well. Oh. He sent us something and we've printed it out. Oh. And we put it in here. Oh, my goodness. And we'd love you to read it to us.

You know I'm a dyslexic. Can you not read it? Shall I read it to you? Okay. Okay. Andy Prigg. Yes. Oh my goodness.

Are you ready? Yes. Dealies, I've been lucky enough to meet a fair few inspiring people in my life. But you stand out. Straight off. This is why I couldn't read it. Every time I'm in the theatre or on the starting line at the transplant games, I'm there because somebody gave me the gift of a second chance.

Meeting you made that real to me in a way nothing else has. What that gift actually costs and what it looks like to carry it with such grace. What inspires me the most is watching you get on with each day with a smile after everything you and your family have been through and clearly with better taste than me. Running mint velvet, you've got a style I could only dream of. I'm lucky if I've matched my socks before a race. What's I say, a lot, Pete?

Isn't he adorable? He's so adorable. The work you've built, through the Will Houghton Foundation is part of that same grace, turning something unimaginable into something that keeps giving to other families. So here it is, as simply and as genuinely as I know how. Thank you. Oh my goodness.

That's a perfect letter as well, isn't it? And that's all thanks of that little girl. An amazing gift with words. Yeah. Wow. And the good that he will do. Oh, my God. with his life. He is going to be someone. I can just sense it in my bones. He's already talking about

looking at the drugs and researching the drugs that stop the body rejecting organs and the longevity of the transplant. You know, he's someone that will not stop till he has made a difference in life. And I just love that he, to your point, he has just gone over and above, isn't he, in terms of delivering that in all aspects. I wonder, I know someone else like that. You? Can we talk about the Will Houghton Foundation because he talks about that letter?

Just how did that start and what do you do? Well, to point it's actually a very personal thing to the family really and I think it's because Will did want to be this cyclist. And I don't think he wanted to be famous but I think he wanted to be something in the world. and he loved his kit always matching and he did like

it I mean he did quite like clothes and so part of it started off is I sort of wanted a website to Will at the same time I wanted to do a little bit like the red nose you know I wanted to give back to other people so we start off just saying whatever we would have spent on Will

we'll just do in the foundation I didn't want to run a charity because running a charity is a very very particular skill and lots of charities come and go, particularly when you are so emotionally driven to do something and you think I'll do that, but then keeping that up forever or changing what you might do and I knew that I didn't have that skill set. So we set the foundation up and people were absolutely brilliant.

So what they did for us, they started to do runs and work organised, a walk for Will was the first one. So we do this lovely. How lovely. So now we do everything. We've had zip wire for Will. We have ride for Will. We have marathon for Will.

You know, we've done them all for Will. And the charities we choose are either, they're all for young people and children who really could change their life through sport and education. And the one that particularly always comes out for us that we cannot leave as carelevers. Because Will's big thing was,

if you don't have a family like I've got, how an earth do you navigate this world? So we, our patrons have become, which is a fantastic nationwide charity. And so we do all these things like that. So really it's friends and families, raise money, we give money, and then we support other charities that support young people. But what it means is like we all wear these lovely sweatshirts with, you know,

Wilhelm Foundation. We do a different t-shirt for every walk. Sophie, my daughter designs a different t-shirt for every walk. And when I go to anybody's house, nine times out of ten, The husband's are wearing the walk-for-will t-shirt. So I'm seeing Walk for Will, I'm seeing Will Hound Foundation, like in all our friends and family. And it's so nice.

And I know Will would approve because it's so nicely designed. And so he is just ever-present. But what he would love is it's doing good as well. So again, it's this, and I'm such a believer in, like, you can make things better. And we're never going to get Will back, but we're not going to forget him, and he's going to have an impact on others. thanks to you and to him

and to him Liz I want to thank you for so many things firstly for sharing your experience and your strength so obviously a terrifying and terrible experience

but you have helped so many people going through the same thing today in particular as well and everything that you've said thank you for making me feel such a boss bitch in my clothes and I'm going to thank you on behalf of all the other people that have loved wearing mint velvet

so thanks for that and you've been really inspiring so it's been really lovely having you here today I'm going to give you this from Andy yes oh thank you so much that's a framer oh my god it is isn't it yeah that is just so beautiful

but thank you like I said you brace yourself I'm going to give you a massively embarrassingly long hub thank you oh thank you So just in case you missed this episode here, if you love this episode, I know you're going to love that.