Begin Again with Davina McCall - Malala: Finally Living The Childhood I Lost & Falling In Love

Episode Date: May 28, 2026

What happens when the world knows your story, but you’re still trying to understand it yourself? Malala Yousafzai has lived a life the world thinks it knows. But behind the headlines is a young woman who lost her childhood, was forced to grow up too fast, and then had to discover who she was beyond everyone else’s expectations. In this episode of Begin Again, Malala joins Davina for a deeply personal conversation about courage, identity, freedom and love. She reflects on growing up in Swat Valley, the father who taught her to use her voice, the Taliban’s ban on girls’ education, and the attack that changed the trajectory of her life at just 15. But this conversation also reveals a different side of Malala: feeling lonely at school in the UK, trying to make friends, searching for who she wanted to be at Oxford, and learning how to reclaim the childhood she never got to have. Davina and Malala also talk about love and marriage, including why Malala once believed she would never marry, and what changed when she met the person she couldn’t imagine life without. At its heart, this is a conversation about losing yourself, finding your voice, and beginning again on your own terms. 🌟 Follow for more honest conversations about identity, growth, and beginning again. Follow us here: 📸 www.instagram.com/beginagain 🎥 https://www.tiktok.com/@beginagainpod ✨Follow Malala: https://www.instagram.com/malala/?hl=en Finding my way available here:https://www.waterstones.com/book/finding-my-way/malala-yousafzai/9781399619349  ✨Sign up for the Begin Again newsletter for all your behind the scenes access, recommendations and much much more at: https://linkly.link/2g2xm (00:00) Intro (01:10) An Introduction To Malala’s Story (04:39) Growing Up In Pakistan With A Supportive Father (12:07) Watching Her Mother Sacrifice Her Own Dreams (20:01) Why Education Became So Powerful For Malala (23:25) Losing Her Childhood And Becoming A Voice For Children (30:50) The Day Everything Changed For Malala (35:21) Reclaiming Her Childhood In Her 20s (41:40) School In The UK And Meeting Alice (47:26) Studying At Oxford And Finding Freedom (54:19) Balancing Personal Life, Education, And Advocacy (57:50) Why Malala Wrote Her Memoir (58:46) Living With PTSD And Trauma (01:04:51) Getting Therapy And Asking For Help (01:07:12) Finding Love With Her Husband, Asser (01:16:30) Staying Focused On Her Mission (01:19:09) The Malala Fund And Its Mission Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I never thought that they would target a little girl for sharing her story. But that bullet changed the trajectory of my life. If you're born a girl, your life looks very different. The only reason that I could express myself was because my father never stopped me. But then this armed group peered out of nowhere and they're using terror and violence to punish people for simply having these rights. That's why we really need to question our leaders. You wrote in your book, everyone wanted to tell me who I was. An inspiration, a hero, an activist.

You know, I was 15 years old. So my 20s has been that true begin again face for me. I'm like looking up Selena Gomez casual outfits. I want you to be cool. Oh God, Malala, I can't love you anymore. I was also scared of marriage because I just did not want a life where I had no control. And that scared me more. What aspect of your life was troubling you the most?

When I share this with people, they're like so shocked. But my whole body just froze. And suddenly I felt that I was reliving the shooting. And I cannot figure out if I'm alive or not. But actually, being brave means doing what you believe in, even when you are scared. So I just want to welcome you, Malala. And I thought I would introduce you by reading the forward that you wrote in your book out loud. Because I feel like this is an amazing introduction to you because the...

way you have described yourself in this intro is exceptional. So would it be all right? Of course. I'll never know who I was supposed to be. Maybe everyone feels that way, curious about the invisible crossroads in their lives, the wrong turns and the chance encounters that change everything. But I am haunted by it. The gulf between how I imagined my life and what it became.

I can't escape the feeling that a giant hand plucked me out of one story and dropped me into an entirely new one. On a mild October afternoon, a bullet changed the trajectory of my life, cutting me off from my home, my friends and everything I loved, spinning me out into an unfamiliar world. At 15 years old, I hadn't had time to figure out who I wanted to be, when suddenly, everyone wanted to tell me who I was. An inspiration, a hero, an activist, but also a wallflower, a punchbag, a paycheck. To my parents, I was an obedient daughter. To my friends, a good listener. When I was alone, I unravelled because the hardest thing was to be myself.

My early 20s' retangle of anxiety and indecision, reckless nights, foggy mornings, friendship and first love. It was never going to be easy in this wonder-struck season of life. I love the way you worked! When the world feels full of possibility to find the path that was right for me, still I tried to shrug off other people's expectations and hear my own voice to reckon with what I had lost and who. who I might become. What I wanted more than anything was to make sense of my story.

I mean... Thank you. It's an honour that you read it. Oh, no. I mean, I've read it 50 times. I can't quite get over the way you are able to so beautifully describe what you've been through with words. I mean, I Am Malala was obviously... incredible but there's something about you as a grown adult as a woman coming into your own this journey finding my way yeah which is out in paperback very soon yes yes I'm very excited for that

yeah and look how nicely my glasses go with the color of the book exactly that's so nice um that there's something about your writing maturing um and your descriptive power that paints a picture so beautifully for us all. I'm going to get back to that final line in the introduction because I feel like that is the end of our story. But I would like to start at the beginning. I want you to paint a picture for us of 10-year-old you in SWAT with your family. What's life like then?

In Swad Valley, I always felt that I was a lucky girl because, firstly, I was living in the most beautiful place on earth, which was heaven to me. Beautiful, tall mountains. We had rivers. We had greenery. And we had amazing people around us. It was always the food, the music, the hospitality, everything I treasured. And most importantly, there was peace. Yes.

There was peace. And I also felt lucky that I was living in a house where I had supportive, where I had a supportive father. So I knew that this was not normal for a lot of girls. What was life like for like girls usually? So there were many cultural challenges. We very much lived in a patriarchal society. And the society was very segregated for women and girls. so it was not as common for girls to be allowed into school

or women to be allowed into work. But, you know, it was evolving. It was changing. And my father was part of that change because he saw his own five sisters, never went to school. So he realized that it is gender-based discrimination. If you're born a girl, your life looks very different. So when he became a father, when I was born,

he said that he would allow his daughter to be in school and allow her to be able to follow her dreams. That was quite different, wasn't it? It was truly like a privilege. It was brave. It was very feminist, you know, for our community. And, you know, I have stories when I share it with people. It makes no sense to people when I explained that my school best friend in Pakistan

wanted to participate in a speech competition. And her older brother told her that she could not go and speak in public. And the only reason that I could go and participate in speeches, I could express myself, was because my father never stopped me. So there's always something in society. There's these voices. There's patriarchy. And sometimes it's, you know, it's the men speaking those words,

or it's the mother in the house who is reimposing all of, that but it's it's just telling girls to it's just pulling girls back could i ask you about when your when your father would let you do these things and not just let you but would would it be fair to say he encouraged you as well yeah he he loved speaking in public himself so it's like like father like daughter so he always wanted his kids to express themselves and i remember whenever my dad would be hanging out with his older friends, his colleagues, he would just encourage the kids to be there as well, just to listen to the conversations. And whenever I wanted to share my opinion, even though I was like nine or ten years old, he would be like listening to me very

carefully. And sometimes like adults ignore kids because they don't think that the kids' point of view is important. But for my father, like if I asked a question, it was a very serious, thoughtful question and he would take time to respond to it. So I felt valued. Wow. Yeah. I mean, culturally, you know, we know the challenges that you were facing in Swat Valley. But even if we think about around the world in more permissive cultures, that is a rare thing to have a father who will listen to a nine or 10 year old's opinion and value it and make that child feel seed.

and heard. I mean, that's such a beautiful thing. Yeah, I wonder, like, why was my father so different than a lot of the other men in the community? And it's one of those questions that, you know, he has tried to answer as well himself. He sometimes say that he had to unlearn a lot before he had to learn. Wow. Because when you grew up in a patriarchy, you have to dismiss the privileges. You have to question why you get favors and others don't. And for him, it was simple, like why could his sisters, like why could he go to school while his sisters could not? It was as simple as that. And for him, you know, it was like, okay, how do I need to do things differently for my daughter?

He was a teacher as well. And that makes a huge difference because teachers love to listen because they know that you can learn, you can comprehend things if you are allowed or given the space to question it, to process it, you know, at your own pace. So I think that teacher personality was also there. But I still, and I will stop banging on about it in a minute, and I still kind of feel that he is such a strong and independent man to be able to go against the tide of what was,

it's not even that it was socially acceptable, it was just the done thing. And in terms of also, it was, it was, it was benefiting him as a man, the patriarchy idea. But he was interested in hearing everybody's voice. The point that you mentioned about how men can have privileges in patriarchy, and a lot of men just love to continue that, even if they know it's wrong, even if they're aware of it. But I think what my father saw was the potential in having a more liberated society.

And he would always call my mom beautiful, but also wise. My mom never went to school. My mom never got to learn English and all of these languages and other subjects, like when she was in Pakistan. But my father was always appreciating her wisdom. And he knew that she was hardworking. She was looking after the kids. And he could see the same potential in his daughter as well. So, you know, when a man truly liberates himself, that's when he's able to see women as equal humans.

And I think that's, you know, that's the power he found out. And that's when he was able to break the patriarchal norms and do things differently. And it's finding his confidence in himself that he doesn't find empowering his wife doesn't make him feel insecure. It makes him feel better. And they just redefine what pride means and they defeat their ego. And they, you know, it's a form of liberation. It's hard to explain. But once you defeat, you know, or kill the ego, you feel, yeah, the world becomes a whole new place for you.

So I've got this picture of you. And did you feel even at that point before your life changed immeasurably when your land, your home was invaded? but did you already feel a little bit different because of the way your parents were bringing you up with this freedom? Yeah, 100%. I felt that our home was like a typical home where the father was always on my side. My mom was more on the brother's side. So I have two younger brothers. And she was growing up in a very different environment.

She never went to school. For her, the idea was that she needs to have sons. And boys are the ones who have more power. So if you have, you know, you just need to maintain the patriarchy. That's when you will receive the approval of the society. And she was very strict for me as well. She would always be like, you know, she would be less on my side. So I thought that my mom was like, so I was not that close to my mom.

growing up and I was always scared of my mom and I just thought like my dad would always you know be there to be on my side but as I got older like I realized that the price she had to pay for rebelling against the rules was so different than the price I have to pay or the price the next generation of women have to pay in her time it was honor killing it was forced marriages it was you know this this lack of opportunities around her. So I one day asked my mom, and it was in the recent years, when I myself was graduating from college and thinking about marriage.

And I asked my mom, what was your dream growing up? And she said, well, you know, I wanted to just find a husband who was supportive so I could get to live in the city and have, you know, food and comfort and all of these things. And I said, mom, that's like marriage. I mean, what was your dream when you were, up, there was no answer. And to this day, like, my mom does not have an answer to what she wanted to be when she was a child because they could just never imagine themselves in a profession, in a job,

earning for themselves, be out as active participants in the community or in public life because there were no role models, there were like no women who they could relate to. So for me, like, I could finally understand that, yes, like, my mom could just think like, okay, you know, like maybe, you know, how could it be different for my daughter? She, they could not see that pathway. Like, sure, my daughter is going into school now. Things are slowly changing, but how much could it be different? In the end, it might be just the same thing, marriage and having a slightly supportive

husband so you don't have to face the terrible things. And that's like the pathway that they see. But of course, like in my case, I was imagining everything very differently. I said, no, like, you know, I want to get my education. I want to get a job. I want to earn money. I want to stand on my own two feet. I just hated, like, the dependency that I was seeing of women on their husbands and on their male family members.

And just like, you're just stuck. You're just trapped there. And so for me, it was like, I don't ever want to be on that side. Can I be more like my dad? It's really fascinating. Like, even as a girl, you want to be like a man rather than a woman in the family. because you're like, you know, I just, I know how hard it is for my mom. So I want to be like my father, you know, it's out there expressing myself, being able to make decisions for myself.

But later on I realized she had gone through so much. And I started respecting my mom more and loving her mom. Yeah, her more, yeah. How is your relationship with her now? I think we're becoming friends, which is nice. That's so nice. Yeah. And I talk about my mom.

more in this book, and I don't talk about my dad as much. I think in the previous book I was talking a lot about my dad, and you can see the shift in these two books as well. Because, you know, I felt similar things that a lot of women feel as they get older when they reach this adulthood. They are making life choices, and I was nervous, nervous about marriage, what that would mean for me. What does it mean to start a whole new life when you are in these relationships

and there are societal expectations. Do I have to adapt to new roles or something? I was like thinking more, you know, traditionally like, oh, what would my in-laws think about, you know, about the work that I do? And, you know, like would I face more pressure? Do I have to constantly be like thinking about everything? So for me, I was like, I cannot take so much.

But I started thinking about everything that my mom had gone through how she was adjusting into a whole new life with the in-laws. It's a whole new life. You just start to trust a man and a whole new family. And, you know, as we know that in our culture, the daughter is sent to the husband's family and it's like a reset. This is a new life now. Yes.

I would just quickly want to finish off with your mum because I do think that's one of the gifts of getting older. I showed you a picture earlier of me and my step-mom and how we've fallen. fallen in love all over again because our relationship has got better as I've got older. Are you enjoying kind of getting older

and seeing her with a different pair of glasses? Yes. I think my mom is also changing. It's not just that I'm changing. I think for my mom like she's now seen me as this young woman rather than just

the little girl that I once was. I think there's still treat you that way. It's really hard. I was going to say it's quite hard for a mum to cross over because you can't. Yeah. So I, but, you know, I love that we, you know, we talk about clothes. She loves shopping. She wants me to like, you know, talk about her shoes and her bags and all of those things. So, so I love that. I think she spends more time shopping, you know, being being in these shopping malls than at home. She also is very much into fitness, which I love. Oh, that's great. And now I have got into fitness as well. So I was like, wow, you know, my mom was ahead in the game. And she has made a lot of friends now in Birmingham. She is becoming like so fluent in English, which is so impressive.

She has learned a whole new language. She's learning how to use a computer and learning a bit of math as well. And she has become a student, you know, in her 50s. So when I see that, it just is so rewarding because, you know, I started advocating for girls' education because at age 11, girls' education was banned in my hometown by the Taliban. That's how I became an activist. But I thought, you know, the change is out, out there in the world, we want to make a difference for the next generation of girls. But then to see that there was a student at home who had missed on that opportunity and she wanted to learn. And so it's so fulfilling, so rewarding.

Yeah. I mean, helping a younger generation of girls is also inspiring their mothers. Yes. But maybe I can learn as well. Like it's helping everybody. Yeah. You mentioned there about your life really changing beyond imagination at 11 years old when the Taliban came and invaded your home town and indeed the entire area.

and how everything just flipped in a moment. Could you describe to me, did you know it was coming? Did you have warnings? And what was it like when it happened for you? I think the group claimed that they are the Taliban around end of 2007. And initially their restrictions were on things like they would not allow like music, they would not allow any form of art. And then they were encouraging girls to drop out of schools

and said that if you go to school, you are going to go to hell. And if you drop out of school, you are going to go to heaven. They were targeting artists and activists as well. And then eventually, like around 2009 at the start of it, they banned girls' education. They said that, you know, no girl can go to school. And if a girl is seen daring to step outside her home and enter school, they will know the consequences.

They will be punished. And they said that women belong inside the house and girls should not be learning or working. These are, you know, according to them un-Islamic, which is completely wrong. And they were bombing schools. They were targeting people. Like the part that a lot of people don't understand.

Like it's not just those cultural, conservative sort of things that are already there. It's like an armed group that has appeared out of nowhere that is now using violence to impose these restrictions. And that's a whole different story. It is terrorism. They're using terror and violence to punish people for simply having these rights. And as a young girl who'd grown up with relative freedom, rather than doing what most people would do, which is cower and fear and do everything they were saying because you were afraid. it kind of lit a fire in your belly.

Can you talk me through what happened to you? And why were you different, do you think, from other children? I had seen the power of education that I just could not imagine a life without it. Yes. And I could also imagine a much freer future for myself through education, that I knew that if I am not able to go to school, I would have such a dark future. I had seen that so many girls who could not go to school were married off.

And they had children before they were 20 years old. And I just did not want a life where I had no choice and no control of what I want to do with my life. And that scared me more. I know people say that, you should have been scared of the Taliban, but I said, I am actually more scared of a life that is trapped that has no freedom. I mean, that isn't a life. That isn't a life. So I saw no choice, honestly, and that's why I had to speak out.

And then I was also, yeah, following the footsteps of my father. Yes, of course. He was also an activist. But also, let's remember, you were 11 when they invaded. I mean, when I think back to myself as an 11-year-old, I was just such a little girl. playing like a not even hitting puberty just so such a child still but I've heard people talk about you and say that you were like an adult you were very grown up when you were little girl yeah um yeah with grown up thoughts you know yes I was the oldest daughter in the house so

you do become you know the wise one in the family the more mature and I think I became well aware what was happening in our community. I was well aware of the the fact that life was different for girls than it was for boys. I mean, I had two younger brothers. I knew the privileges they could enjoy and what I couldn't have.

And I also knew that education was something that I could not take for granted. And, yeah, and, you know, and my father always made me feel valued. So that adds to it. Yeah, so I was acting very like grown-up mature when I was a kid. And then later on in college, I was like, can I be a child again? I mean, you missed out on so much.

Yes. Can I be silly? Can I jump around and laugh with friends? Yeah. I mean, that my heart slightly breaks for you in that way because you had a topsy-turvy childhood. Yes. You were having to be incredibly adult at 11 years old and deal with. terrifying situations and changes happening.

And changes that, well, it was a life that you had no control over. You had no control over your own destiny. Yeah. Which would have been terrifying for most, but you decided that you would take a leaf out of your father's book and become an activist yourself. How did that manifest itself? So when people ask me about my activism, you know, they feel like it was all like, you know, thought through and planned.

It didn't go anything like that. At the time, there were like a few journalists who wanted to cover the story of what was happening in Swad Valley because, you know, these are the things that you might see, you know, on TV or in newspapers saying something like terrorists have taken over this area or just say there was a suicide attack in this place. This many people were killed. and you just hear nothing about what is happening to children, what is happening to women, what are like the personal stories. So the journalists were coming into our schools before the Taliban ban and they were saying,

like, how are these girls feeling about the fact that they would not be able to continue their education? So I stepped forward and I spoke to the local media channels, the national and international media platforms like CNN and BBC and the New York Times. I was volunteering. I was stepping forward. I was participating in peace protests. And I had no training of what it's like to be an activist or any of that. I just was telling my story, which was simple.

Like, I deserve to be in school. Our school should not be bombed. Our school should not be banned. I want leaders to do something about it. We cannot live under this terrorism and violence forever. Because, you know, we had peace before. This is not the life that we should be living under. But, you know, these are the things that we are seeing around the world right now.

We hear about Gaza. We hear about Sudan. We hear about Afghanistan and different parts of the world. And like, people are not talking about the life of a girl, the life of a child in those places. They have dreams just like any child in the world. They want to play. They want to be able to read and write and have fun time at school. They have a future.

They want to have a future. They have dreams just like everyone. But the violence, the wars, the injustices are denying them, that opportunity. That's actually very thought-provoking. Thank you. And let's not forget the children and what they're going through right now, everywhere around the world where there's war. It's very easy.

You're so right, actually, about that idea of reading something in a paper, and it's a long way away. And you forget, and that is why you talking, And that your father not only had given you a voice, but he had taught you how to use words in an order. Yeah. To put them in an order in a way that you write or speak that makes people listen. And that was not just a gift for you,

but it was a gift for the world, you know, and all girls around the world. Yeah. Like, like, I've never felt that my story is in any way important. And for that reason, it should be heard by people. The fact that I wanted to tell my story was because I wanted to tell people that it is a common story of so many girls out there, so many children out there in the world. And it's not a story of the past. This is happening right now. So many children are denied their right to be in school.

In Afghanistan, the Taliban for the past five years, have banned girls from going to school. Like, you know, that's, that's, if you read, I'm Malala, if you read, you know, like finding my way these books, this is this, this is the story of Afghan girls as well. This is the story of, you know, all the children in Gaza who have been displaced constantly, their schools have been bombed. Like, you know, the literacy rate was like nearly like 99% or plus literacy rate was so high there. And all of a sudden, like, every school in. university has been decimated and destroyed. So, you know, I, like, I want people to know that this is about what is happening right now.

And this is impacting millions of children. So we really need to question our leaders. We really need to question ourselves. What kind of future are we giving to children? What kind of world are we creating for them? And, and, you know, like, sometimes, like, have you, like, you know, whenever there's like a little baby in the house or you know we see a cute baby with our friends like all the disagreements the unease the anger the frustration sort of disappear and everybody starts smiling

because when we think about children we know that they're innocent and they deserve more happiness and joy and peace around them and they deserve to live in a better place like we should address the injustices and we should make the world a better place for them so that is the state the world right now. Like we should we should look at children with more empathy. We should see all children equal and we we should all agree on this principle that they deserve a fairer, a peaceful and a more prosperous world. I'm going to go back now to you and talking to CNN and the BBC and talking to journalists. And you at this point did this under a pseudonym or an alibi.

Did you know that you needed to do that to stay safe? So I didn't do all the interviews. So I did one blog for the BBC, and that was under the pseudonym. And I actually didn't want to do it under a pseudonym. The BBC decided to do that because they said they could not take any risk. But everything else, like, you know,

I was stepping forward as Malala and showing my face. And for me, it was important for people to hear my story. Like for me, it wasn't even like a thought that, you know, something could happen to me. Honestly, I thought that the Taliban might target my father because they were targeting these activists, these men campaigners. I never thought that they would target, you know, like a little girl. A little girl, a teenager simply for sharing her story. Yeah.

But, you know, didn't turn out to be the case. No. Yeah. So, I mean, there was that fateful day. You were, you were 15. Were you on your way to school? For home. Yeah. Coming home, yes. It's coming home from school. Yes. And could you just talk me through what happened? Are you okay talking about? Yeah, yeah. Okay. The good thing is that I don't remember the incident. Right. I have flashbacks, I have these different visuals, but I can never prove or never be so sure that I actually saw everything that day.

These are the stories that I have heard from my friends who were with me on the school bus. And they said that two gunmen stopped the school bus. One was distracting the driver at the front. And this other boy sort of comes to the back of the van and he asks who's Malala and then fires bullets. And, you know, that bullet, you know, changed the trajectory of my life because I was short at point-blank range. I was 15 years old. Point-blank range, God.

And after that, I, you know, I just, I don't know what happened. But I was told that, you know, as soon as the driver realized that there had been the shooting, he drove the bus straight to a local hospital. I was moved from that hospital then to another city hospital and then another city hospital. You know, the initial main surgeries were done in Pakistan. And when they shot you, they shot you straight at the head. Yes. On the left side of my forehead.

Through your head. Yes. So it was like, yeah. Into your shoulder? So yeah, it went through like the left side of my forehead and then sort of went through the neck into the back. Into the back. I was also told, like, the doctors for like hours could not find where the bullet had gone. And that's where like it was, I think, like, many hours later that they found, they realized like the bullet was actually in the back.

Oh, my God. Yeah. It's, you know, it's really like a miracle, truly a miracle. Like, if it was just like millimeters away from the brain. So I feel very lucky, very, very lucky. Can I tell you something? Yes. We all feel really lucky to you.

We're really glad you're still here. Yeah. Thank you. What a life you've lived since then. And I, you know, it's funny in a way. I feel sad that you lost your childhood that day. Like that really, well, really you lost it when you were 11 when they invaded. But you know, I'm reclaiming that.

And my childhood continues. I can't wait. I want to hear it. about that actually as we go on. But you ended up going from hospital to hospital, but you actually ended up coming to the UK because it was a military hospital in Birmingham. Yes.

That actually could help you a bit more. Can you just talk to me? Because I also want to unpick a little bit because it really shapes who you are and what you've become. I mean, this obviously, this podcast is called Begin Again. Yeah. I don't know if you know why I called it begin again. No.

Well, I called it begin again because I had brain surgery. Okay. And before I had my brain tumor removed, I wanted to let go of whether I lived or died. But, you know, I'm 58. So I'm at a different stage. I'm not as young as you. So I was like, okay, we need to talk about your skin care later. But, yes.

Make up, make up. Yes. But I was like, what do I need to make it okay for me to die? And the big thing was my kid, are my kids okay? And they are. Yeah. They're great kids. They don't want me to die, but they're great.

Yeah. But I thought, oh, the big thing is that I have changed, shifted different tracks all through my life. I've had a go at everything. I had a go. And I'm really proud of that. that. Yeah. And I've had a good life. And I thought, I want everyone to get there. Yeah. So beginning again, it's like what do you need? Yes. To start your life over. Yeah. The way you want to go.

Like you're just telling me, yes. I'm a child again. Yes. I'm really living to my childhood. And I'm doing it now. You're beginning again. Yes. And but you've had to begin, you've had to begin. You were forced to begin again many times. Yes. But I want people to have a choice sometimes to make those really difficult changes in their life where they think, I'm not happy here. I want to do something else. And hearing stories like yours. And what you've been through is so inspiring for people to think, oh, that thing I want to do, if she can do all of this, I can do that. You know, like that's why this isn't just about a young woman, an activist changing the world for other women, which is in itself extraordinary.

Yeah. It's about inspiring other people to be brave. I love this concept. And when I think back and just try to reflect on how it has been like for me, I would say that, you know, for me it was this begin again. But I was not making those changes myself. Yes. They were being forced upon you. It's all external.

It's nothing in your control. you are trying to adapt to it. You are trying to figure out how you fit in to that. The Taliban taking over, I was 11 years old. The Taliban attacking me, I was 15 years old. I'm winning the Nobel Peace Prize. I'm becoming this activist. I have to advocacy, all of these things.

I'm just 17. And the moment when I felt that I could actually begin again, but with my rules, with my preferences, was when I started college. That's when I realized, I don't have my family here. There's no parental, you know, watch. I don't have anyone, you know, like the team or anybody around me. I'm just here on my own, like every other student.

How would I like to live this life if, let's assume there are, there's nobody watching and there are no expectations? And that's when you can begin again and reset the rules. So yes, my 20s has been reliving my childhood. And that has been that true begin again phase for me. Can you tell me what reliving your childhood has looked like? What are some of the things that you've done? There were phases to this process.

I think the first thing that I was deciding was, what do I wear? because my whole life I had only worn traditional Pakistani clothes, you know, chalwar, camis, and I love them. They're beautiful, colorful. But at college, I saw that everybody is wearing slightly different clothes. Like, it's more Western, it's jeans and tops, and it's dull, and it's like, you know, it's just gray and, but it's fine because that's what students are supposed to wear. So I was like, I want to blend in.

I don't want to stand out. I don't want anyone to sort of see me in this traditional outfit and then see me as like the Malala they have. seen in the news, I just want them to see me as a fellow student because I'm just so desperate to like go in and blend in and make friends. Never done that? Yes. And I go on Google and I'm like looking up these outfits and then I search Selena Gomez casual

outfits. Wait, wait, wait. Wait, that's so random. Wait, you search Selena Gomez casual outfits. Yes. Why Selena Gomez? because I want you to be cool. Oh God, Malala, I just, I can't, I can't love you anymore.

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What is trending? What would make me look cool? Does Selena Gomez know this? Yeah, I actually met her. Shut up. Last year, I met her in LA and I told her it was amazing. Did she love it? She loved it.

Oh, God. So when you looked her up, yes. What was she wearing? Skinny jeans. Okay. Cardigan. Okay. Pink, blue, bright tops.

Good colors. And a lot of, you know, necklaces and jewelry. bracelets and leather jackets, denim jackets, and like boots, like black leather boots. And I was like, there it is. So yeah, I was like, I was, you know, I'm wearing a bomber jacket. I'm wearing jeans. I'm wearing these, you know, tops. And it's still like modest.

But I realized, like, I was not the only one from Pakistan or, you know, or a Muslim who was wearing those outfits. There were like so many Muslim and Pakistani and South Asian students who were wearing Western clothing and, you know, everybody was dressing up differently and you just see the diversity of it and I loved it. So that was like for me like the first start. Then the second one was like making friends. I was like, okay, I don't want this to be the same way as it was for me at school in the UK. Can we just talk back to going to Birmingham because that was very, you were 15 when you went to school in Birmingham. Yes. And that is a very, very, and that is a very very, very tough time to join a secondary school because everyone's made friends.

I know. So what was that experience like? You know, you can see those groups. Yeah. And you can't, you can't fit in. You can't go in. Yeah. So I felt like an outsider. I also thought that I was just being too serious because even I just had forgotten how to be young and how to be a child. Oh, wait, let's just think about that. Yeah. You know, you're like meeting the presidents and prime ministers of the world and you are like attending these. things and you just have no idea how to be a child again. But that's so sad. And I want it to be, but you need friends to be able to be yourself because they just give

you that comfort zone. Yes. And I missed my school friends from Pakistan. I would always call my friends from Pakistan on the phone and ask them like, you know, like what's happening with that friend and what's happening with that teacher and like, what's the school environment? And I would just picture myself back in my school in Pakistan. But you couldn't go back.

It was really challenging. I mean, it took me like five or something years to go back to Pakistan and meet everyone. But I go now, but yeah, at the time it was very difficult. You know, it is safe, of course. The cities are safe. But it's hard to, like, move back. Easier to go and travel and visit friends, but a lot harder to move back. So how did you work it at secondary school?

because you were trying to learn skills that maybe you would use at university. Yeah. How, I mean, the other thing that I think, the other challenge for you a little bit was that, well, you were shot by your first test results when you got to secondary school, but then you turned into like, right, I'm going to ace my GCSEs. Yes. Was, were people annoyed with you for being so clever? Um.

Or were they proud? You know, I felt really interesting. invisible at school. I didn't even know if anybody was even thinking of me or noticing me because I thought I was not in the cool friends groups. So at high school, I would just highlight two things. One was the day when I felt like people sort of noticed me was when they found out that I had won the Nobel Peace Prize because I was on the day of the announcement in my chemistry class. I had no phone or anything. And, you know, the Nobel Peace Prize Committee usually calls the recipient. Because they're like all older people. There has never been a 17-year-old school student. You were the youngest ever, right? And the school deputy teacher walks into the class, and she calls me outside.

And I'm like, am I in trouble? What have I done? And then she says, Malala, you have won the Nobel Peace Prize. And I was in shock. I was like, what? I'm like, who gets to be called outside? That class. A slas and just told anyway.

So that day I felt like, you know, I could see more friends looking at me and more people saying hi to me or congratulations to me. You feel just being more seen. But, you know, it just like dies down the next day. And so, you know, and then the second thing was that by the end of my high school, I had only made one friend. Oh, but you'd made one? Just one friend. I'm still bestie with her. Like we're besties forever.

And let's please talk about her. It was Alice. Yes. So let's just talk. Let's just pay homage to Alice please for a moment because. I'm going to be her bridesmaid. Yes. She's getting married in August.

And this is going to be like my first time being a bridesmaid. I've never been a bridesma. Which is crazy. I don't even know the rules or what am I supposed to do and all of that. She'll tell you. Alice will tell you. I know, I know. So can I, how did you and Alice,

find each other and what was it that brought you together? Yeah. The reason Alice and I became friends was firstly, Alice was sort of encouraging me to speak with her and to sit down with her. So I remember like, you know, in the dining hall, she would sort of offer me to sit down with her and I'd be like, no, no, I'm okay and she would insist.

She'd be like, no, you know, we are sitting together and she'd be like, we are getting that ice cream. You know, we are going to the gardens. We are going to do this. And I just like, you know, I would just follow her. I was like, yes, ma'am, you know, like follow her command. And that's what I love because, you know, there's like somebody who tells you like, they want to be friends with you.

Yes. Because I never wanted to be a burden on anyone. I never wanted them to feel like they have to be with me. You know, I was like, because, you know, friendship is like it's such a genuine commitment. You can never fake it. Yes. You know, when it comes to true friendships,

it's a commitment. It's being there for each other, caring for each other. And, you know, in her company, I realized that, okay, she wants to be friends with me. I'm not like a burden on her. So that's how I became friends with Alice.

But I wanted more friends in college. I was like, I can't, university time can't be the same is my school time. I don't want to be just like this lonely, quiet student, stuck in the library, who ends up making just like one friend. I was like, no, I do not want that. I want lots of friends.

Between school and university, it was like, okay, I'm changing. Yes. This is all changing. Yeah. Selena, Gomez. Yes. You made an active decision. Yes.

to take control of your life and who you wanted to be before you went to university. How are your parents when you got into Oxford? I was telling my parents like, I'm off. Stay out of my business. So my, yeah, I mean, my parents would call me, you know, any time in the day and I'll be like, Dad, I'm busy, mom. I have a class, mom, like I'm busy with friends. So I kind of was like really enjoying my time without my family.

Yes. It was a lot of fun. And I was really like, you know, of course I was like in college it became one of my like, in college I became my goal that I would, I want to make friends. I want to get that exposure. And I want people to like to get to know me. Yes. More than that, I just wanted to like get to know myself. Like, you know, if I have no constraints and if there's like no.

pressure or expectations that I'm setting, who am I? And I was like, you know, I'll be able to know if I actually get out of my comfort zone. So I knew that I will, I'll have to meet a lot of people and make a lot of friends. And for that, I actually signed up for so many clubs and societies. I had no clue if I was capable of any of those things and if I had any talent. But I was signing up for rowing. You know, I was, I signed up for. the Christian society, Hindu society, Muslim society. I was like, I just want to meet everybody. But that must have been fascinated.

You were fascinated, weren't you, by different cultures and religions and stuff. But I love the sporty stuff. The rowing. I mean, rowing is challenging. Yeah, I know. I know. You know now. I know now, yeah.

It's very challenging. You have to get up early. It's so risky. You know how, you should know how to swim. I couldn't swim. You went rowing and you couldn't swim. Yeah. Oh my God. But that was like my first and last attempt rowing.

I never went back. No. Cricket? Yeah, but it's just so hard. Like you have to keep learning. And the rules in cricket. But I love it. I love it.

You love that. What was your favorite club you joined? My favorite club was the South Asian society and like the Pakistan society. I really loved being a part of the South Asian community because it made me feel closer to home. Yes. We could speak the same language. We could share the same food. We could dance to the same music.

We could enjoy the same poetry. And I loved all of that. And I felt like I was back with my old friends from Pakistan. I mean, you were talking about you wanted to make friends and have a new collection of friends. And often I think when people, you know, when you move area, when you divorce, when you, like whenever kind of you have a big life change, you have to venture out and make friends. And that is kind of weird and difficult. It's like sort of please like me. I like you.

Do you like me? It's such a funny thing. But I think you were talking about letting people get to know you. And there is something about revealing something about yourself and in turn something then revealing something about themselves. I mean, obviously you'd been. through so much, what was that journey like for you letting people in and were people like, wow, you know? Honestly, like, I don't know it from their perspective because, you know, now that we you're just you. Now we have been friends for more than seven, eight years.

And, you know, it's like we feel like we're like sisters. Like we have known each other our whole lives. But I think for them it was more like, you know, they also want. wanted to make friends. And you have to like tell each other that let's, you know, set these things that we have heard about each other before aside and let's get to know each other, you know, like as just new friends, like, you know, it's completely new people. Almost on a more shallow level.

Yes. Yes. So that's kind of how it starts. And, you know, for for me, it was also just like trusting my friends and what they were planning to do and like being willing to do. join anything. So we were like punting and going out for dinners together, staying up late, gossiping, talking about boys, talking about astrology. And then I heard about this, you know, this group of students who would climb up the rooftop onto the bell tower of the college.

And it was a very risky journey. It was like, I was like, I don't know. Like, what if I get into trouble or like what if the college finds out and I'm like kicked out of college and But I was like, you know what? If this is what the cool students do, I'm going to do it. And I even climbed the college rooftop. Yeah. Well done. Yeah.

It felt like a bit of a rebellion, but it's like it's worth it. It's worth it. I was enjoying a bit of that disobedience. And, you know, it became more symbolic to me because, you know, your whole life were sort of constantly meeting the And you feel like you have a role to fulfill because that's what everybody thinks you should be doing. And then in college, I'm like, should I climb the roof? Why not? And then when I go up there, I'm like, am I defeating something bigger?

It's that sense of liberation that you feel when you make it to the top. And I was like, it is, it is helping me a lot more in life as well. It's making me think about, you know, what are the things that I'm just accepting because I think that that's what, people want me to do what people expect me to do. And in college I found a way to sort of be able to question things more and then make sure that I do it my way. Yeah. Isn't it funny how most people go to college just to learn more information and to have a bit

of fun, make some friends, but most learn, and you're learning how to break free from what has been an expectation of you to break. free from that expectation and liberate yourself, how much kind of more you got from it than was expected, really. Yes. At the same time as you being at university, most other kids are just at university, you know, they're just learning, they're having fun. But can you talk me through the pressures that were on you to deliver on all the other

fronts that you've been working on throughout your life? because there was a lot going on on top of university. Yeah, so like in this book I actually share about this journey for me, how, you know, like as much as I'm trying to be a student and to be like every other student, I also have these other roles that I have to fulfill. So I remember like in one week or so in college time, I traveled to three countries. I was doing advocacy at the World Economic Forum.

I was in Lebanon with the Apple CEO, Tim Cook, to raise awareness about girls' education and get their support. And then I have a meeting with my senior tutor and she is really concerned that I am actually really behind in my essays, in my performance. And that's when I was realizing that actually even if I think I'm,

going to like do my best and like you know like work you know even when I'm traveling but it's it's like impossible to manage all of these things all together so in the end I realize like I have to stay no to things as well to ensure that I am giving more time to my studies and to my college life in general and you know eventually I um I also started like getting more academic support as well. Because in the beginning, I was just so worried that if I, like, you know, if I'm struggling with the studies and everything, that, you know, it's so like, it's my fault. And I don't deserve to be here. So, you know, by the end of my first year, I performed really poorly in my exams.

I nearly failed my exams. And I was like, this is a disaster. Like, I am an education activist. I can't fail my exams. I hadn't thought about that. That is so, that's so hard. to feel like that about yourself. It's so much pressure.

It was a choice between like, do I want to be stuck in the library and be sad and have no friends? Or, you know, do I sort of socialize and have fun and like do everything that I want to do but still be a student but also not fail my exams. Yes. Like make it to the end. It's a lot, isn't it? To juggle. Yes. And then I found out about this academic support at school.

And I was like, wait, there's like a counselor and they can help you with your studies. and took me a bit of time, but I eventually received that support. And, you know, that's something I talk about in this book because I wonder, like, how many students feel hesitant because, you know, we all have that imposter syndrome. And I was hoping that, you know, like, students who feel that way, I want them to know that we, you know, I have felt that. Like, many of us have felt that. And it's okay if we have moments of doubt, but we should not hesitate in asking for help. I think that's such a strong message and I think that actually stands for anybody at any age

to write about it and say it's all right for you to go do this it's such a beautiful thing so thank you for sharing your vulnerability yeah part of the reason why I wanted to write this book was because I was thinking there might be someone out there who has gone through what I went through struggling to make friends

doubting themselves struggling with mental health, hesitant to ask for help and support. I want them to know that it is okay if you have moments of doubt. It's actually not a sign of weakness to get help and support. It's actually a strength because you are navigating your way yourself. And I'm so grateful that I found my way through all of those obstacles and challenges. and I hope that this book can be a guidance for them. And if even like one person, like one girl who is struggling in any way,

find some hope through this book, I would be like, I have done my job. You were saying that you were struggling with your mental health. What aspect of your life was troubling you the most? So when I share this with people, they're like so shocked. But I never got therapy. after the Taliban attack. Never received any mental health support. I was offered, but I said, oh, no, like, you know, this, like, I'm supposed to be brave and courageous.

I know, I have overcome all of this. Like, I don't need mental health support. So I took it as a sign of weakness. Fast forward seven years later, out of nowhere in the middle of my college time, you know, like friends were trying to bong for the first, you know, like, bong and I saw it for the first time, and I'm like, I don't know what this is, but they were like, give it a try. I was like, okay, I was like, I don't even know what the effects are. So I was like, what's the worst that could happen? And like I cough a bit and then on the second attempt, I felt like just my whole body just like

absorbed it. And that's the moment, like, I froze. And everything changed after that. because suddenly I felt that I was reliving the Taliban shooting. Like it's midnight, it's past 12. And I'm in this friend, but I feel, I'm with these friends, but I feel like it's like I'm just frozen, I can't move. And the shooting is happening. And time has slowed. And I feel like that I'm, you know, I cannot figure out if I'm alive or not.

And that night just turned out to be a terrible night. I felt sick. I could not go to sleep. I was shaking. My heart rate was so high. And I was so scared to even go to sleep because I thought, if I close my eyes, I would never be able to open them again. Wow. It's like you feel that trauma of life.

Yeah. I mean, it triggered the whole trauma all over again, right? Closer to that moment again. So after that, like, you know, the next day I was like, I wanted to like reset everything and take myself back to yesterday. I was like, you know, the old life, the happy life. I'm laughing, I'm giggling, just could never do it. The next day, the next day, just could never do it. And then I realized, like, I'm stuck.

I'm stuck. I'm not that brave and courageous person anymore who can get herself out of these challenges. And, you know, my friends started noticing that I wasn't being myself and I needed some help. And I'm so grateful and feel so lucky. that it was a friend of mine who said that I should get therapy. I was like, therapist was like they have no, I was like they have no clue what I have been through. Because we all feel that our circumstances are so exceptional.

And it took me a few months, but I finally booked an appointment with the therapist. I was so scared. They were like moments I was like, I should walk back. I'm not going. I'm not going. I don't want them to know anything about me. And then I have my first session and I start talking. and then I'm talking and talking and talking

and then I don't stop and I'm like, you know, you're just like you know, opening up all of these things that you have been sort of suppressing and you let it all out. You just let it all out. And that's when I realized, oh my goodness, I should have received this treatment

a lot earlier. Oh, were you sad for your little self? Because I was like, you know, this, I had to unlearn and relearn so many things. firstly that it's actually not a sign of weakness to get help. It's actually not a sign of weakness to like to feel sort of scared and then like help yourself through it because you know I was just constantly told that like being brave means you just have no fear at all.

But then I was like no actually being brave means doing what you believe in even when you are scared. Like this fear that I have now, this anxiousness, this. This anxiety, you know, like, I'm, yes, like, you know, I faced this trauma of the Taliban attack. I saw terrorism growing up and all of those things. Like, yes, those images, those flashbacks are there. And I know that I'm so lucky that I survived and I'm living in a comfortable place. But, like, it's still there.

And it's okay to have that fear because it's not that I'm just scared for myself, but I'm actually scared for so many girls. there. Even girls in Afghanistan right now. You carry that. Who still have to live under the Taliban rule, their extreme gender bias and they the Taliban have imposed a like a system of gender apartheid. That's what Afghan women activists are calling it. So just to know that they're a very good name for it isn't it? Because it's systemic. It's deliberate. Yeah. It is a system of segregation that is deliberate and it punishes women for daring to learn, work, step outside their homes, be in public spaces. So it's really heartbreaking. And like, you know, I really look up to the courage and resilience of Afghan women.

And I know that they're scared and terrified. But I really look up to them. So, you know, when I was, you know, thinking back about the trauma that I had faced, I like, I just could think about other girls who just like me, 11 years old, 12 years old, had gone through so much. But therapy really helped me think differently. And I was hoping that, you know, by sharing that story in this book, I can help a lot of people from my own community especially to know that it's okay. It's okay to ask for help to get more professional help as well. Yeah.

Could I ask you something very quickly about that culturally, then, is it harder in your community? Do you think for women to step forward and ask for help? I think it depends. I would frame it differently. I think it's the more professional like psychiatrist's help that is very difficult to get. To access. To access. And also like the availability of it as well.

And then the awareness about it as well. And I know that mental health is also. like a very new conversation globally. Yes. It has only come up in the recent years. So I know it will take some time, but I think this, you know, it's good to tell your story now and sooner because I hope that, you know, so many people will be able to, like, relate to it. I loved what you said about your friend saying, you're not okay.

Yeah. You need to go get some help. Yes. And be that friend. You know, if someone's watching and they know someone's watching and they know someone. who's struggling, they might need that little push. Do you know for like a long time, I like I had seen this like word like, you know, post-trauma and PTSD and all of these things.

And I would always just feel like, ugh, like, yeah, like that was like, I was like not me, not me. I was like, yeah, I wonder why people talk about it because I faced a trauma and I'm completely fine. Look, I'm strong. I'm focused. And I'm happier. And, you know, the therapy sessions helped me find out that actually I had PTSD.

And I had flashbacks. And so it's just coming to an agreement. Like, it's coming to agreement with the fact that, you know, these things are happening in your life. And you embrace them, you accept them. And then you, you know, you start to sort of live with them. So, of course, I could never take my life back to what it was before. But just like finding strength in a new way is sort of the way forward. Living with it.

Yes. Not against it. Exactly. Yeah. But when you left university, what did your life look like? What does your life look like for the last few years? And where are you at now? Well, immediately after I finished college, I graduated in a pandemic.

So I was the class of 2020. And I hated it. I was like, I'm supposed to like go and travel and like explore things and get out of the house. Why am I just like back to where I was? Why am I back in Birmingham with my family, with my siblings? And I just like was so desperate to get out of it. But, you know, we all were stuck in that pandemic time. But I had found somebody in these college years who I really, really loved, Aser, is this guy who I had just met.

And he was tall and handsome and good looking and completely my type. And I was very scared of love. How did you actually meet? We met through friends. And it was just, you know, pure chance that we got to meet. and I thought he was funny and hilarious and he was laughing at my jokes as well which I loved You are hilarious, I know.

And he used to work in cricket so I was like, oh, he's maybe like a cricketer as well, who knows? So I was like, that makes him even more sexy. And we became friends, we became friends. It was long distance, he was based in Pakistan, but we got to know each other over the years. He would visit in the summer and we would visit in the summer and we would go for dinner and just like spend some time together.

And I was like, there is that connection there. Like I am happier when I'm in his company. And I, you know, and we love so many things, you know, together. We love sports. And he's just like so cool. But I was also scared of marriage because I had seen growing up how girls have lost their future because they were forced into marriage. So it just. could not like come to an agreement between these two things like, I, you know, like I want to live

with this guy. That's something like I want. I can't imagine my life without him. But then I was like growing up like the, you know, I said that I will never get married because I was like I hate marriage and everything and like it's just always more compromises and it's less, you know, like the opportunities get limited for women. So then eventually I came to this agreement that yes, like, you know, he is an exceptional person. We both see marriage in the same way. It's like when two people are aligned and it's a different thing. But, you know, my concerns about marriage have not gone anywhere. I think empowering women is important. Educating girls is very important. But I'm very lucky that I found the right person. How was it with your parents and your father when you met Assa?

initially my parents were really worried they were like oh my goodness what's happening my dad could immediately tell that you know there was like something you know like because I introduced Aser to my family like early on and as a friend as a friend and even like at the time I did not I didn't know if I had feelings. But my dad was suspicious. And I'm like, I know. It was like, hang on a minute.

I know. And I was just more worried about my mom because even though Aser is from Pakistan and my family is also from Pakistan, we speak different languages. So our mother tongue is different. Asar's family speaks Punjabi and Urdu language and my family speaks Pashto language, especially my mom. She struggles with Urdu a lot. So my mom was like No, this guy How am I going to communicate with him?

He doesn't speak our language and all of that But I was like, Mom, like, I'm getting married, not you You know So and then my mom became friends with him as well And my mom I think Aser knows how to impress everyone Yes So he knew that my mom loves shopping

So whenever my mom is wearing like, you know, a dress and she's like, who's going to be the first one to talk about it and, you know, her shoes or something. So Asa's like, wow, you know, you're looking gorgeous. And then my mom is so happy. Yeah. But every day, they love him. He's like their favorite person. Yeah.

They're always in like, as you got closer to the marriage time, like, I remember like one time my dad just sat him down and said, are you sure you want to marry my daughter? Because, you know, it's like, it's not an easy task. And I'm like, dad. I know. That? Yeah. Yeah. They're like, you know, she can be a lot.

She's a handful. It's kind of true. I was going to say they weren't wrong. They weren't wrong. It's a lot. They weren't wrong. I think this was something that I found quite interesting because I always think about famous women. Any famous woman, it is incredibly hard for a man to date.

Yes. a celebrity because you have to be really confident. Not just a celebrity. In yourself. Any accomplished woman. Any accomplished woman. And a high achieving woman. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, simply, like that woman knows her value and her worth. Yes. Yes. Because you've got to be super confident in yourself. Yes. So not feel intimidated by that. Yes.

Yeah. And I think my parents' marriage was actually a great blueprint. for you. Because I saw, like I talk about my dad being an amazing dad. That's true. But I also saw my dad being an amazing husband. Yes. And we always learn from what they do, not just what they say.

Yes. And I knew that, you know, like no matter what, but, you know, like the husband has to, you know, be respectful and kind and loving and caring. And they need to make your life better and in no way any harder and more difficult and frustrating. And bring out the best in you. Yes. And like the way he has just like loved my mom and appreciated her. And he's just like so impressed by her wisdom and everything. Like he just always is like she's so wise. And I'm like, okay.

You know, like it's like very uncommon like to hear it from like their generation. So I was like, my expectation was. I think it's uncommon to hear it from this generation. It's uncommon. Yeah. It's such a, you talking about the way that your father appreciates your mother and respects her. Yes. It's such a beautiful and powerful message.

Yeah. Yeah. And I can see. So the fathers also have to be good husbands, I think. Yes. Yeah. I mean, this is so important. Any man, as an example to other men needs to be a good husband.

Yes. And it will bring out the best in their wife. Yeah. You know? Yes. But I look at your face when you talk about Asa. I know. And I can see how you feel.

Yeah. You know, we really enjoy our time together. He's funny. He's really entertaining. He has actually introduced me to so many things in life now that I just never thought I would be doing. Like, you know, three, four years ago, if you had asked me what my favorite activity was, I would have just said sitting. Honestly, sitting. I just want to relax.

and not move around. Well, you had a pretty hectic life. Yeah. Yeah. But he's the guy who's always standing and walking around and he's always finding like something to do. So he has introduced me to like pickleball and paddle tennis now and skiing. I could not imagine myself skiing.

It's hard but I'm like learning now and golf and I'm taking cricket lessons sometimes. It's just like random but I'm like I just love it. And I go to the gym now. and I'm like running. I mean, I couldn't even walk. I'm running now. I know. And weightlifting.

Oh, great. I do weight lifting. I have like, you know, good muscles now, bicep, triceps, quarts, whatever, all of those things. And I love it. I love it when I lift heavier weights heavier than him sometimes when it's leg day. And I'm, you know, he has to like then sort of, you know, hear me chat about, oh, I'm doing so well and I'm doing better than you, but he can tolerate me. It's fine. But yeah, he has really changed my life. I mean, I can see he brings out the best in you.

And I can see you like yourself with him. Yes, which is a great example of love. And it is, I would say to my kids, do you like who you are with this person? Yeah. That's the most important. I love that. And do you do? Yes. So when you look back at your life, I guess I have two questions. Okay. One is any regrets? I don't look back. I honestly don't.

It's not that I don't have any regrets. I'm sure there's a long list. But I feel like I have just more time to think about regrets in life. I call it lessons. I call it takeaways. and I try to move on quickly because time is so precious and you have to live more in the moment and think about how you can do better the next day. So I try to look forward. For me, like if I think about my priorities going ahead, it's always about how can we make this world

a better place for the next generation of girls. And my goal is to help them get access to education, help them get access to sports opportunities. I want to see things change for Afghan girls. I don't want them to live under the Taliban rule where they don't have the right to go to school. I'm like, I'm dreaming of the day when they can re-enter their classrooms. But I'm like, yeah, we'll keep doing our best to provide them education through these alternative platforms now like underground schools and secret schools and radio programs. But, you know, it's, but more than anything, like when I think about the resilience and bravery of these girls from all around the world, from Pakistan to Nigeria, to Afghanistan, to Brazil,

and how committed they are to accessing education, they fight for it. And they are finding their way to a better future. So I'm like, I'm just here as an ally and I will do all I can to make sure that, you know, you have access to every opportunity and you can choose your own future. And I do feel like it is our duty every single woman in the world to, Amplify your message because we owe it to other women. And I do feel like women have an allyship with each other that is natural and real that we can empathize with every woman in the world.

We understand and we owe it to each other to look out for each other. So, you know, my message is read your books. like amplify your message. Don't forget, remember what people are going through. But I quickly just want to talk about your foundation as well. Yes, of course. Because when did you start the Malala Foundation? How old were you?

I think it was when I was like 15. This is like, this is so, such a huge thing to create. But you were talking about accessing with underground schools and education. but the Malala Foundation is a lot to do with that, isn't it? Can you tell us exactly what you do and how people can support it? Yeah, so, you know, I started this foundation with the mission to ensure that every girl can have access to education. And through this organization, I give grants to local education activists who just like me and my father are working on the ground to help girls get into schools. They are like working on policy changes.

They're working in the most deprived and marginal. marginalized communities. They're working in the difficult parts of like the countries, like, you know, from Balochistan and Pakistan to the north of Nigeria to helping the Afro-Rasilian communities and the indigenous communities in Brazil. And they are like helping girls in Afghanistan to keep learning and they're advocating for their rights. So these activists are incredible people who themselves like, you know, have been girls who were facing struggles in access to education. So a lot them are girls and young women themselves who are the activists and so far we have supported more than 400 organizations and like reached 26 million girls and now

like my goal is that we keep expanding this work and I'm and then there's like one project that I love talking about that I have supported through Manala Fund and that is a school in my parents village up in the north of Pakistan it's in the mountains And there was no high school at the time when we started. Yes. I remember anything about this. And when I won the Nobel Peace Prize, it came with a cash price. So I said, I'm going to donate all of this money to start a school.

And since then, I have been doing all of this fundraising to support the building of this school. And we launched it around 2018. And the first class of girls graduated last year. It was like the first group of girls who could, you know, who were graduating from the 12th grade, year 13. And I met them. I met them in person last year. I went to Pakistan.

And this is something I talk about in the last chapter of this book. Like that chapter is so close to me because the book begins with my journey of joining college, you know, making it in Oxford. And then by the end of this book, I am sitting with these girls who are about to join college. Wow. And, you know, I'm like, I'm talking to them about what their dreams are and, you know, what they're hoping for themselves and they're like talking about the amazing things they have received at the school from sports facilities to mental health support to counseling. And I was so happy. I was like a school in like the mountains of the, you know, of Pakistan and they're getting like mental health support. It's like, you know, the best sort of a state of the art school there, which is like incredible.

And then, you know, I just wanted the girls to know that it's okay. okay, not to have all the answers right now. And I want you to have a fun time as well in college. You know, they don't want you to face any pressure or like don't feel like you have to just meet some expectations. Like, you can set your own rules. And I know that you have an amazing journey ahead. But I just wanted to like sort of tell them that I know what college life can be like. And I just want you to know that you're not alone and it's going to be okay. That's such a strong message. And honestly, all of those girls that you help around the world will want naturally to want to go and help other girls.

And it will just keep growing. You know, you are changing the world. And not many people can say that. You are doing that. We would all like to help you. So thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you for talking to us today. I just want to just reiterate this book is out on paperback. I think next week, so after this goes out, we'll be coming out next week in paperback. But actually, I would say buy it in a hardback. It's very nice. The cover is very nice.

The colours are absolutely, this is your colour. Yes. And you can see the mountains in the background. That's my home. It's absolutely beautiful. But I would just like to thank you from the bottom of my heart for this interview today and your honesty and your courage. Thank you.

And I just admire and respect you so much. Thank you. And I think a lot of people that watching and listening will get so much from this. So we are so grateful for you coming on again. Thank you. Yeah. Round of applause from Malta, please. So wonderful meeting you as well. Thank you.

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