Begin Again with Davina McCall - Penny Lancaster: The Menopause Nearly Broke Me, Why I Chose To Speak Out!

Episode Date: October 2, 2025

In this powerful episode of Begin Again, Penny Lancaster shares the story behind her extraordinary life, from international model to police officer, mother, and menopause campaigner. Opening up with raw honesty, Penny revisits the traumatic events that shaped her childhood, including a violent attack at age 12 and a devastating encounter at 17 that she buried for decades. She reflects on how those experiences shaped her confidence, her relationships, and her drive to protect others. Penny also discusses life in the spotlight, her modeling career, meeting and marrying Rod Stewart, and the unexpected twists that led her to retrain as a Special Constable at 50. With emotion and clarity, she describes the mental toll of perimenopause, her misdiagnosis with depression, and the moment everything finally made sense. In this moving conversation, Penny reveals what it means to reclaim your voice, how she found strength in vulnerability, and why speaking out was never just for her—it was for every woman still in the dark. 👉 Follow us on Instagram: @beginagain 🎥 Watch more on TikTok: @beginagainpod (00:00) Intro (00:01:27) Who Is Penny Lancaster? (00:03:03) Early Life & Struggles at School (00:07:53) Assault at 12: Surviving Childhood Trauma (00:15:43) Lessons Learned From Parents (00:19:31) Modelling at 17 & Assault by a Client (00:29:13) Life After Trauma: Navigating the Modeling Industry (00:35:46) Love, Relationships & Dating (00:38:35) The Night She Met Rod Stewart (00:45:27) First Date… Nine Months Later (00:47:54) How Rod Became Her Biggest Champion (00:51:22) Rod’s Support Through Menopause (00:52:33) Penny’s Perimenopause Journey: Symptoms & Support (01:04:38) Becoming a Special Constable at 50 (01:13:37) Reflections on Family and “Someone Like Me” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I get this phone call. Hi, it's Rod Stewart. Why don't we go for dinner? And I'm like, today I am sitting down with the brilliant Penny Lancaster. You might know her as a model, TV personality, but her story is really one of the amazing power of rediscovering who you are. I've only just found the confidence to be okay with not being perfect. Penny talked about the attacks that she went through as a young girl and the strength that's taken to keep moving forward through. even her darkest times. I was 12. He tried to pull my skirt up, a trauma there, and we'll stay with me forever.

She shares how she met Rod Stewart, one of the most iconic rock stars in the world, and the secret behind keeping their marriage strong for more than 20 years. This bolt of light came out of nowhere. Truly my night in shining armour. Penny opens up about her frightening experience of menopause and the unwavering support she found in Rod and of course her family. She serves as a special constable. She's amazing.

She's turned her pain into something powerful and good. I've really grown into my own, and it's only now that I feel that I can pass that knowledge on. This conversation is proof that there's always a way through, and it is never too late to begin again. In front of me is Penny Lancaster. What's been really nice is I've really got to know her quite well over the last few years.

We've come together over our menopause activism. But my God, what a life you've had. You were a model when it was quite something to be a model, and I can't wait to talk to you about that. You've been married to the Rock Ledge, Ros Stewart, who seemed untamable and you've done it. You have also become synonymous with loose women and TV and broadcasting, a huge advocate for women, an amazing mum and step-mom.

And, Mara, is it, let me please make sure I've got the right wording for it. Is it a special constable? Yeah? Yeah, you are a special police constable. With the city of London. With the city of London, which is like a... Where we are. Yes.

We're in your... In my manor in my... Yeah. My stomping ground, my foot patrol. Yeah, there's just so much... to ump it with you because the sort of whole premise of beginning again you have really done that, been there, got the T-shirt. Anyway, so, thank you.

Thank you for having me, thank you for having me. Yeah, it's funny. I like the way we've bonded. Yeah, I mean, we've seen each other out there and it's that kind of like, I know you across the room. Yeah, we're like that. Uh-huh, got you, yeah, yeah. And then I saw you at Glastonbury, laugh.

Oh, it was good, wasn't it? Oh, my God, wasn't he on? Oh, God, he was, look, goosebumps. I know, me, too. He was on fire. And I want to, I'd love to talk about this year a bit with you. But I want to start off because it's interesting. What year did you start modelling?

Oh, well, I was 17. So that I was born 71. 88. Okay, so I started working at Models 1. You were Booker, wasn't there? In 88. Wow. Oh gosh.

Yeah. And I was a model at Lorraine Ashton's. Yes. In 85. It was, they were more commercial and catwalk, right? I mean, I was like the most unsuccessful model ever known. Wrong agency, darling. What was really, do you remember Sarah Dukas who started Storm?

She left Lorraine Ashton as a booker and started Storm. And she very kindly said to me one day, she said, you know you can stop modelling if you want to. You don't have to do this. You don't have to make it work. Yeah. And I said, really, and started crying because I felt like I had been given an opportunity and I mustn't let go of it. Or how many girls would love to be a model. But I just wasn't making the cut.

And I was miserable. I was miserable a lot of the time. Yeah. I just didn't feel like there was any other pathway for me. So tell me a little bit about that because you were at school and it was actually a teacher that suggested to you that maybe this is what you should try. Because they didn't think I had anything else worth offering other than my looks. What does feel like? I mean, my dad got me an extrad tutor for English and that outside of school

and that tutor actually told my dad that you're wasting a time of money she'll never make anything of herself. These extra lessons aren't going to help her pass a test. You might as well just give up. And a teacher telling a parent later in life you discovered that you actually have dyslexia. Yeah.

I mean, look, look at my hands. Yeah. Look how wet they are? Yeah. That's hyperhydrosis. Oh, is that what that is? I thought you had oil on your hands. No.

It's from your hands. Yeah. It's a nervous system thing. Yes. But it happens not when I'm like just nervous. Yes. But it's when I get excited about anything. Or it can happen first thing in the morning when you've just woken up and there's, you know, those sort of floods of like what happened yesterday?

What God would have to do today? Sort of build up. Like stress hormone. Yeah. And they, yeah. It's triggered that. Well, it happened in my adolescence. And it's hard to know really what brought.

it on. But it was shortly after I was attacked on the way to school when I was 12. And then this sort of kicked in. So it was like the beginning of adolescence, the hormones being a teenager, being dyslexic, not understanding that and being told to sit at the back of class. You know, you're wasting my time, you know, just nobody giving me the help that I needed, but still wanting to go to school, still enjoying being part of that. learning process, feeling like a sponge. Like I've got something. I just didn't know what it was and I certainly didn't fit into that system. And so maybe it was a combination of the struggle at school and then the attack at 12 on the way to school that sort of rewired me. But I think any trauma that's happened to

a young child does alter the way they are forever because you're bringing. brain is still developing until you're the age of 21, hence why generally alcohol and drugs are advised to be avoided until that stage, because they're all substances that are designed to alter the state of your mind. But while your mind is still developing, it can cause permanent damage and all different ways. When I'm just trying to kind of paint a bit of a picture in my mind of you as a young girl, you sounded when you were talking about going to school, that you were full of hope. Wanting to learn.

Keen, you know, like, teach me. But there was this event that happened. Do you mind, you've talked about it. Is this, yeah. Hey, are you okay to talk about it? Yeah. Are you sure? Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Just a quick heads up. This part of our chat covers some sensitive topics, including descriptions of sexual assault. salt. If these subjects are tough for you, please take care while watching. A very supportive family, mum and dad. And I guess after the fact, after the incident where I was followed to school by a male predator who was, I assume was in his late 20s, I was 12. actually you'd think I would hate the colour brown

because this was pretty much the colour of my uniform I was going into school alone that morning because I'd been at choir practice the night before and we were allowed to go into school late so unlike the normal mornings where I'd be travelling in with my girlfriend who lived just down the road or with other children on their way into school

I was travelling walking alone and my dad had gone off to work and mummy was busy, of course, as mum's are. And so I walked as normal. And my parents wouldn't have thought anything of it. And I remember seeing this man on the corner of the road thinking it was odd because it was quite a busy jaw carriageway. And there was an underpass to get from my street to the school,

which was just on the other side. But you daren't make that rush and try and jump over the barrier in the middle of a dual carriageway. It was much safer to travel under the underpass. it wasn't, it was a bit grim of an underpass, like most are, you know, not lit very well and a bit smelly. And then there were these, you know, metal barriers where it would slow down a bicycle that was coming down. So I was making my way down, down the ramp and I thought I heard someone behind me. And I thought, well, maybe it's that man, you know. Why should that bother me?

and then I entered into the main section going under the road and where it got darker and then I heard the footsteps become louder and then so I sped up then the footsteps sped up anyway eventually he caught up with me grabbed me didn't use words but just sounds and laughter and tried to pull my skirt up and was yanking at my shirt I didn't know what was going on, what was happening. And nobody could come to my rescue.

I wasn't in control. And I just fought and kicked and punched. And I did scream. And he just laughed. And then he let go. Obviously he was enjoying whatever he was getting out of that moment of being out as a man, you know, an older man being stronger, in a place of power and control, taking that innocence away from that girl.

But I ran to school, ran straight to the headmaster's office. And then, they were amazing. they believe me. I am so pleased. Police were called. Helicopters went out. It wasn't for some weeks later that, from my description, that I realized then in fact there had been multiple attacks by this particular individual.

And it was a suspect they were desperate to get hold of. More to fact that I was the oldest out of all the girls that had described him. Oh, God. And so I was the best witness that could collaborate whether, in fact, the man that they thought it was, was the correct person. So I ended up in the back of a police car outside his house. In the early, early hours of one morning, it was a winter's morning and it was dark and the ice was on his windshield. And I watched him scrape the ice off and they were like just literally on the edge of their seat going, is it him? I'll say

I can't I don't think it is I just wasn't 100% sure and I just thought I can't just say yes for the sake of it yes because I mean the police never put me

under any pressure to do so but I could imagine what they must have been hoping for but I couldn't you know accuse someone that I wasn't 100% sure of So it just, it went.

And then that person got away with it. And I don't know how many other women he went on to attack girls. And so I just had to live with that, knowing that he's somewhere out there. You know, I guess thank you for sharing that with me. Because I know how hard it is to talk through something. And psychologically, on a mental health side of things, I never dealt with it when I was younger. Of course I had my mum and dad that were like super protective of me.

My dad would drive me to school every day after that. And I had the support of the police and my teachers and everything like that. So I thought, you know, it's fine. But everybody sort of really understood how mental health affects people and what that little bit of trauma there has triggered inside of me and will stay with me forever. So I will take the steps to have therapy. Did you?

I haven't. I haven't. But I did one session after the reveal of another attack by another male predator happened in that Me Too movement. And I did go and seek help. It was sort of compounded by other events in my life. But I did one session for three hours and ball my eyes out and I was exhausted. Yeah. I just thought, I was looking after too much else in my life at the time.

You know, I needed to be there for my husband who was going through prostate cancer. I was, you know, I was looking after my, I thought, I can't look after me at the moment. I've got other people I need to take care of. So I've sort of, I will get around to it. This book has been a huge amount of therapy for me. I bet it has. In fact, I'm going to hold this. Someone like me.

It's out now. It's a bit like a... It is an autobiography, but it's... I love this lessons, this idea of like... Everything is kind of done through the eyes of this is what I've learned. This is what I've been through. This is what I've been through. And there's someone like me out there.

Exactly. Someone else that's gone through some of the things that I've gone through. All on different levels, of course, and at different stages. But there will be people that will relate to it and understand it. And like it's helped me talking to people about it, it could help someone else. I mean, I can't tell you how much I admire you for talking about this. Because firstly, I'm thinking about 12-year-old you, going straight to the headmaster and sorting it and getting into it.

and getting in touch with the police. That's so overwhelming for a 12-year-old girl. But then it was just parked and I've got school to think about. And, you know, I was bullied when I was at school and then the learning difficulty thing and leaving... Why were you bullied? I think most of because of the way I looked. I was not only taller than every girl.

I was taller than all the boys. So I kind of looked odd, you know, gangling. My mom and dad always wanted me to look smart and be smart and they always explained that passing exams wasn't smart. That wasn't what makes you an intelligent person. So I knew I had something, but it just wasn't that. But they instilled to me a different type of confidence. And with the bullying, they would always say, like,

look at it from a different perspective. Put yourself in there, shows. try to. I know it's hard and it's okay to cry and it's okay to feel horrid about what's going on, but what are they going through? Why, what's drawn them to fill the need to have to project onto you? It must be something they're trying to alleviate, something they're trying to shed by putting it in your direction. They see you as the weaker one, but I just kept, had this invisible field in a sense and I would recognise the weaker people, the other that were getting bullied

and would stand up for them because I knew what it felt like but I was tougher than them and I thought I can get through this so it was a huge learning curve in a sense I'm kind of grateful that I was bullied because even

you know as adults we get bullied there's people in the industry there's people we come across in all of our walking lives that aren't necessarily going to be on our side they've got something to say about you but at the end of day they're saying something about themselves Yeah, totally. I was just thinking about, what that must have been like for your dad.

God. My dad, the protector. My dad, you know, he was, he was, he's a lawyer in the city of London. So a very intelligent, powerful position he held. And then he also was like our incredible Hulk, except he didn't go green. But he would have like a makeshift job. gym in the garage and he would like pump the iron and so he was strong mentally physically intellectually but he couldn't prevent that from happening so it must have driven him absolutely

crazy you know a father wanting to protect their daughter so he drove me to school and there was one morning where I kind of like and broke down just what what what and he turned around he went is that him and I said no it was just the idea that there was a man standing there that freak me up daddy it's not him because I knew he'd pull over and that would be it. He'd be the one in jail for trying to protect me and get his own back and be rid of this person and all of that, you know. So I felt I had a lot of support and a lot of strength. My mom being a very strong, independent woman.

So, yeah, I mean, I had the best upbringing imaginable. But when it came to the incident when I was 17, when I was 17, when I was. started modelling and it was a client. Was it quite close to the beginning of you modelling? Yes. You started modelling at 17. How did you get into modelling? After, well, towards the end of the school, not with much prospect as far as any exams to come out of school with.

Someone suggested, well, you know, you make a good model, you're tall, pretty, blah, blah, blah. You know, there's a few agencies you could go see. So, or there's a course at the London College of Fashion. It's a modelling course for a year. They teach you the business side of modelling. They teach you accountancy. You know, about the business, not just about makeup and walking and things. So I got onto that course.

And through there, I got introduced to different agencies, but I had a real professional head on me. You know, the whole thing, turn up, clean face, do your bits. No tam up. You know, like just really professional. And if you're on time, you're late, make sure that you're there. That's a good lesson early because people will notice, you know. So it was that sort of education of life, really, and how to show up.

So that's how I got into modelling. And it was fantastic. I got to travel the world, meet incredible people. And yeah, there's the other side of modelling where you're constantly. being stripped of confidence in one direction and being built up in another. I mean, my weight was always a yo-yo. At school I was too skinny. When I started modelling, I wasn't skinny enough and that kind of thing.

It was so tough. I just took advantage of the opportunity that I was being presented with and focusing on the good aspects of it and putting the work in. You found yourself with a predator who was, in fact, a client for work. And what I want to also thank you for, Penny, before we talk about this, because this is dark, but I am hard pushed to think of one girlfriend of mine that didn't go through some kind of discomfort ranging all the way up to rape. at the hands of a man, a friend,

a colleague of works at school, like anything. And it just was never spoken about. Well, it was a culture that seemed acceptable. Well, you're a girl. If you're going to put a short skirt on what you expect, if you're going to have a drink and not be aware of his surroundings, what do you expect? It was just like, well, they're just being lads

and they're just having a laugh or, oh, it's nothing. You know, it was just, but it was mad. Yeah. And what happened to you? You know, you, you were the professional. You turned up, you know, in the right outfits. You looked good. You were like, wanted to be early, you know, and you were with a client.

And trust, my problem was I trusted. Because I, you know, the upbringing I had, I had no reason to distrust. So it was a client. Yeah. I'm actually more matter of fact with this one. Mostly because I didn't, I wasn't conscious, wasn't aware of what was happening. The 12-year-old girl, it was a much terrifying. In a way, bigger deal, even though it wasn't, a crime wasn't as serious.

But it was a client and I'd worked for a few times before, through my agency. And one of the times I was working with him, he said, look, I've got this big charity event we'll go into. And if you come along with me, I can introduce you to lots of different people, networking. And of course, I was 17 eager to get on, and it was all about who you knew, connections. So I told my parents, and, yeah, I seemed all above board, you know, certified through the agency and all of that.

I'd met him previously, and what's the harm? On the way to the event, he said, oh, I need to stop by my apartment. I need to grab something. Run up with me, you know, safe sitting in the car. I was like, oh, why not? So up to the apartment. And he had like a little mini bar situation in the living room area.

And he said, yeah, pop myself up on the bar. I'll pour you a drink. I was just going, you know, I thought, oh yeah, because it's a little bit nervous, you know, to meet all these new people. So there I was. I had this drink. then the next thing I come around

I wouldn't say awake I come around finding myself face down in another room on his bed and he's on top of me I could feel him between my legs

but I don't know what happened and that seemed to feel like it was a while I don't know how long and then eventually he got off and I got off the bed and just pulled myself together. And still, I guess, under the influence of whatever it was that he'd given me.

And I think running through my head all the while was, well, I took the drink, I said yes to coming up to his apartment. But this is the thing that really upsets me. He's not claiming yourself. He never asked if I wanted this or that. Or would it be okay? Or are you all right with this? But as a 17-year-old girl, you just blamed yourself.

And that's so normal. Also, I wasn't even given the, I wasn't even given the chance to have a choice because that was taken from me. You didn't even know it was happening to you. Like you were, you were drugged. And then I just pull myself together and put on a brave face and just actually went still and went on to that event. which I don't remember much of, went home and then just felt sick to my stomach. And my parents asking me the next day,

how did it go? And then keeping it, that was like, this is going to be buried and go to my grave. I can't tell anyone about this. I wasn't thinking about it as a crime that I could go to the police about or I didn't want to bring any more pain to my parents after what they had to go through when I was 12, why would I want to hurt them again?

So I just buried it, moved on. And when I came to doing the police TV show, working with offices and working with CID, we were dealing with a particular case not too dissimilar, and I said, oh, something like that happened to me, and I just told him as a matter of factly. And he said, if you, the police are aware of this case, you've told, you've told people about this before. And I went, no.

So you haven't told a police? I said, no. He said, well, you just have. I said, yeah, but I was just telling. He went, no, this is a crime. You should, we should take a statement. You should report this. We should put it down, like, this is an official statement that you're making to me.

You're telling me about a crime that occurred. It doesn't matter. And that it's... When it was... Yeah. And I was like... No, no, no, no, I can't. And what...

Can I ask you something? Just for anybody that's watching, that is a woman that went through something similar that ended up feeling like it was her fault that she'd in some way asked for it. She'd put herself into a position and it's like, I can't really...

But it was a crime. Mm-hmm. Without any consent. This was before I was a police officer. And what... What's... What were the things that were holding you back? I don't want to do that.

Yes, I absolutely wanted him to pay for what he'd done. Right. But he was an really old man now. He was of no danger, I believed, to anybody else at this stage in his life. The people, the only people I felt that was going to suffer, going to be his wife, his kids, his grandkids, to know my dad? Granddad, I couldn't do that to them. You know, like, it could just stay with me.

Yeah. Why pass that pain on? It's so, it's so complicated and difficult, isn't it? It's like. But sharing it with other women, like you said, that have experienced it, you think, I'm not the only one. Oh, I mean. It wasn't me.

It happened to you and you. Yes. And you. Yes. So after that, because that's another massive trauma for you, where did you go from there and how long did you model for? I think after that I kind of said to myself, fuck it, you know, like, that's it. It's not going to happen to me again.

You know, I've had my three, you know, like comes in threes. You know, I was five when I was almost taken off the front driveway of my boat. I mean, abducted, right? But nearly abducted by some. Yeah, 12. and then 17. That's it. That's me done. So what does that look like? Did you become harder? A bit more feisty. I don't think I've ever been hard.

You know. What I'm thinking? But more confident. Yeah. Sassy. You know, and I thought, use your height. Yes. Use your strength. Use your power. You know, I trained as a fitness instructor. So I thought, you know, build those muscles, use your height.

I was a swimmer from a young age. So, you know, I had these broad shoulders. And I just like, use the aspects and the qualities and the skills that you have. Because I was always saying to myself, I'm not this and I don't have that and I'm not capable of doing this. So I'm always telling myself what I couldn't do. And then I started saying, I've got to look at what I can do. Can I ask you something? Did you learn that from somewhere?

because that is like an amazing gift, a switch up for someone to do. And I know so many people that just carried on saying, I can't do this, I can't do that. Well, I think possibly because I had those incidents happen to me as a young, vulnerable person, it made me something inside, you know, I can't really explain it. And it didn't just happen overnight. It was a case of, I kind of used what I had. I thought, okay, well, I see how it works. Yeah.

So I just got a bit more sassy, a bit more wiser, didn't allow people to kind of walk over me. I wasn't the kind of weak, shy. I started to kind of spread my wings a bit and almost use my femininity as my power, not my weakness. Yes. And, you know, this is another incredible skill that you would get to a place that was so difficult. and so painful but you don't let that break you you make it

make you stronger because it didn't stop me modelling no and what was it like modelling after that well it would be at castings and I did a lot of swimwear and lingerie so they you know they needed to see your skin your shoulders your midrift or whatever so it would be like a taking laser clothing off

you know because you need to be poloid and taking a photograph try this on and that kind of thing. So I was always watching for like safeguarding other people actually, the other girls. Because I thought, I've been there. I know what this is like. I'll stay in the room or I'll hold the door for you. Or I was attacked on the underground on occasion.

And from that point onwards, I was like, okay, so I'm going to avoid the underground. But I'm going to get to that casting. so I'm going to drive. So I got my A to Z out as it was, and I'd plan all my routes. And I'd drive and I would be taking a route that would go past a train station on the way to a casting. And I'd see, you know, you'd spot the models along the way.

And I'd be like, do you want to lift? Do you want to? And I would just pick up people on the way. I just, I was like, if we band together and we stick together, then, you know, I'm saving a potential risk. You know, I would spot a risk. But just looking out for others. It's not just a life that we pay for ourselves.

It's, you know, we're all on that journey together and like, you know, just take care of one another. Love. Yeah. Like, I always feel like we just need to be more loving to each other. Yeah. God. So, modelling, you kept modelling. I'll let you have a sip of tea and I'll just chat away to you.

I mean, I, I know when you met Rod, you were. were engaged to somebody else. How did that happen? How did you meet Rod? And was it like a coup de fudre? Like that's in French, that's like a lightning strike. Oh yeah. Was it?

Can I just, I've got to say something else as well to you, Penny. You're going to love this. But I am engaged. Woo-hoo! Congratulations. Thank you. It's just come out. I got leafed, so I'm just, I can say it out loud now.

That's great. But to a smaller man. And I've got to say, he's 5'5 foot 5. And it changed, it revolutionised everything I have ever thought. But for me, I'd never really gone out with anybody that was shorter than me. And he's the biggest man. Michael's like the biggest man I have ever met in terms of

courage, strength, brain, fun, sass, you know, brer. And it's just so interesting, isn't it? It's like... I want to know about you and Rod, sorry, sorry, I've gone off to Michael,

but before Rod came along, I had my short man. All right, okay, so you'd been there. I've been there. So you already knew It was a nine-year relationship Okay And it was my first serious relationship

I met him when I was 18 Okay That's quite a long one for 18 Very long one Yeah And I think My thoughts were I need to be the strong,

dominant one And maybe that's why I was gravitated To a particularly short person Five foot five and a half Because I thought I can overcome whatever situation may come along because I'm the dominant, I'm the taller. Possibly. Maybe that was one of the attractions, but yes, you're right.

Some sort of people, men, have that sort of Napoleon's complex and they have to almost make up for the thoughts that other people have of them. so they grow bigger in so many other aspects of their life. The personality, their humour, all of those things. So Michael, you say I'm a 5 foot 5, not only am I 5 foot 5, but I'm a hairdresser. And he said, I want to leave everywhere having, like, surprised people. And that's exactly what he does. It's amazing.

And he's kind of got these skills. Do you know what my ex used to say? Yeah, go on. on. When he used to... I love it. Honey, I feel like... We're surrounded by microphones

and you went with your hand like this and I was like... No one's listening, are they? Shh. Shh. So, yeah. He always got the look from other guys. Oh, right, yeah, yeah.

Or from anyone as if like, well, what are you doing with her? And you... How'd you pull her like you? You say, yeah, but I can fuck her and suck her tits at the same time. And... You know, and I, really? Wait, can I just say one thing the brilliant thing about that as I had to kind of visualise it?

I was like, hang on a minute. Don't you know what that's like? So that got us through, you know, I mean, I was horrified when I first heard him say that, but then when I got guys coming over to me, I'll go, guess what? Yeah. And it worked every time. Oh, God. Completely shrunk them to that.

Oh my God, that is so good. And as a teenager, I was, I was 18, he was four years older than me. So I kind of like, you know, he taught me a lot, ass, a lot of, like, street cred stuff. And he just, you know, he did help in so many ways. Oh, I mean, he's so great. He was amazing. And he, the funniest guy ever. Yeah.

But he never grew up. No. And he had some of his other personality. traits that just wasn't going to work for a relationship, for a marriage for kids. And it all came to sort of a grinding halt. We had a big split. I read The Road Less Travelled. Gave him a copy, which he never read.

Okay. It was melting. It was melting and tearing at the seams. And then this bolt of light came out of nowhere. and my, truly my night in shining armour. And it was never an intention of like, leave him be with me. Yeah. Because Rod had only just seconds come out of a nine-year relationship.

Yeah, himself. He knew. So we would be the same thing. Both in a very similar place. Where did you meet? We met at the Dorchester, the hotel in London. There was a nightclub in the basement. Obviously.

In a nightclub. Yeah. In a nightclub. It was a Christmas party. 1998. Wow. And it was on the circuit of the city traders, which my ex was. Yeah.

And he was off to one party and I was invited to another and it looked like we were going our own ways anyway. And as luck would have it, I was with a bunch of girls and I was always the one going like, Penny, you know, when I was younger, go out to the cinema, a box office. you buy all the tickets for the movie because they're going to believe you're old enough. So I was the one who was always pushed to the front. Go to the bar and get the drinks in because they're not going to ask you your age. Because my height always got away with it. So I owned this position, this responsibility of being the daredevil, the one that would defy all odds.

So one of my girlfriend says, Rod Stewart's over in a call her, please, I'm too nervous. Can you go over? I'll go over, you know, trotted over. And then I say, hi. A girlfriend of mine would really love your autograph. Would you mind? Sorry to disturb you and all the polite kind of, you know, charming, flattering eyes and all that. And he said, yeah, okay, come and sit here.

What's her name? You know, how do you spell that? And got the autograph and he said, well, tell me about you. Why was it you that came over? So I was like, well, I'm Penny. and I'm studying photography and just out for fun with my girlfriends. And he went, can you dance? Oh, I said, I didn't want to be boastful and say, yes, you know,

because I'd had some dance classes before, you know, and I love dancing. So I just said, well, I enjoy dancing. And he went, I'm going to come and watch you. Can I just say, that's also very sexy. Very sexy. What? What? So now I'm like, oh, you want to watch my moves.

You know, there is that sense as if you're a good mover on the dance for a good in bed, but that's not necessarily, the truth. No, no. Anyway, put that aside. Yeah. So I went back towards the dance floor with all the girlfriends looking to see if I've come back with this. My God, but how long were you gone for? Because, like, you've sat down and had a proper convo with Rod.

Probably 15 minutes. Wow, and they're like, where's she gone? She's disappeared. Yeah. Oh, she's, you know. But no, I came back. And he was surrounded with his band members, all the guys. And so he was following behind.

So they're going, oh, there's Penny. And then, Rod's slightly shorter than me. And then going, oh, my God, he's right behind her. I come directly to the dance floor. He goes off to the bar in the corner and sits by himself and watches. Oh, my God. And you knew. And I knew he was watching every move.

And did you pull out the dance? I pulled out. Yeah, yeah. All the best. In fact, I think I cleared the dance lot. one had a chance out there. It was strictly come dancing before strictly. So proud.

So proud. So proud. So proud. So proud. And then they were like, Penny, he's calling you over. So I think if he had the palettes, it would have been 10, 10, 10. Going on. So I went over and he said, let me buy you a drink.

It looked like thirsty work. So he bought me a drink. And then we just got chatting. Tell me more about yourself kind of thing. And he said, but before you begin. I have to just put this out there that tomorrow in the newspapers you'll see some headlines

my wife and I have split our marriage is over but we're staying together this Christmas for the kids I was like whoa I wasn't expecting that one right

but it was his honesty and openness and almost vulnerability as well so he was hurting right So it was never a kind of like, you know, a typical man coming on to you scenario in the nightclub, you know, how you'd expect.

It was very honest. Yeah. Mature. He'd been there before. And this was my first time around, in a sense. So he said, the only of all awkward thing is my wife's here. What in the club? Yeah.

Yeah. And then I kind of got scared. And I said, okay. I'm going to go and see my friends I just go back to my friends now but it was lovely meeting you he said well you give your number to my bass player

and I'll get you a pass you can come and take photographs at the show because I want you to have an opportunity you're studying for trophy and that's what he's like he would just like see an opportunity see someone that could just need that little edge up that little

foot in the door can I help you and I'm a can I help you you know so we kind of go round helping. So I went back to dance floor and then I did clock the X as it was. And I just thought, oh, I'm going to stay way away from that. That's like, that's a lot.

But I did go with a girlfriend a few nights later to Rod's last show at, where was it now? I can't remember where it was. Went to see the show, took photographs with my little camera with all these big lens. and everything, went backstage afterwards, but Rodd had already fled. Yeah. You know, he needed to get out there because it was, yeah, the bombs had dropped, sort of thing. And, of course, about his, yeah, all the news are broke. Oh, my God.

Right. And, but he left me a program that the bass player, Carmine had given me. And he said, look, he's sorry he couldn't see you. But, you know, I've got your number. He signed this book for you. And it just said, be good. And I thought, be good. Oh, yeah, okay.

And I don't think I've ever seen him right be good on anything. It's always like best wishes, you know, whatever. But, and that was it. I didn't hear anything from him for almost nine months. Oh, wow. Nothing. And my life carried on. I was finishing my, well, I was still in the middle of my photography course.

Mickey and I just tethered together, very thin string. That was your partner at the time. Yeah. Yeah. And then I get this phone call on my answer phone. Hi. Nine months later. Yeah. Hi, it's Rod Stewart. I'm back in England. Why don't we go for dinner? Let's catch up.

And I'm like, someone's joking with me. The friend's having a good old wind up. And my mum said, Don't answer it for at least 24 hours. I was like, what? I had to take my mum's advice. She'd been right all along with everything else. And?

So I waited, a waited, awaited. I did all my little delving and trying to find out who would put in her. Yeah. So I was like, it must be him. So I called back. And it was. I mean, it's very distinctive voice. Yes, it is.

Very distinct. Singing or speaking. Quite difficult fake Rod's voice, I think. And he said, let's have dinner. are you available tomorrow night? I was very, you know, and I'm not around for very long. And I said, yeah, sure. He said, well, look, there's a great, great friends of ours, a couple, Debbie and Allen,

local Italian restaurant, high street, you know, so it wasn't flash, flash, flash. Lovely. So he said, I'll pick you up without be all right. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I told my then partner, Rod Stewart, you remember I got the opportunity to take his picture. He wants to see my photographs. And he said, well, yeah, sure, go. And that's, you know, all the tau-tow signs that this relationship was done.

Was done. Yeah. I mean, who lets their... No one. No. No. Yeah. So there I was on this wonderful date with this other couple.

So it was sort of semi-professional, wants to see my photographs and there's friends here. So it's not official date, but there's obviously there's some igniting of energy going on. And you can both feel it, right? Both feel it. I was dressed up to here. I didn't want to give any wrong impressions. I had trousers on which he hates. He always wants to see me in a skirt.

Trousers, you know, like no giving the wrong impression. Yeah. I'd learn my lesson. I'm like, like, only when I'm ready. Yes. And good girl. So then that night was over, but then it was just, do you want to come over? Do you want to come for a cup of tea?

Do you want to come and do, da, da, da. And I said, well, one day it happened to be my my granddad's birthday. And anyway, the relationship. started to grow very slowly. And I told him about my ex and everything where I'd gone through with him. And he said, you're just going to keep going back, aren't you? You're never going to walk away.

And then he said, I'm not saying leave him for me. Leave him for you. That's so good. Oh my God, that's so brilliant. You don't need him. No. Oh, my God. He's not right for you.

He's not good for you. Yeah. don't think where you're going to go next, just go. Yeah. And I was like, and he kicked going, that there was a reverse psychology that parents do with their kids. He's like, go on then, you're just going to go right back to him, aren't you? You're going to go right back. And I was like, no, I'm not.

No, I'm not. And I didn't. That was it. And I remember going back to our house when he was at work. Getting all my staff. Wow. And then closing that door thinking, this is the last time I'm going to close his door. Wow.

and then I stayed at my parents' house. Wow. Yeah. And then he was back in America. I started my next term at the photography college and I carried on doing that course. I was independent. I think that's what he liked.

I was going to say. I didn't drop everything. Because if you would understand, like, whist off by Rod Stewart. Of course. But I think this is, this is... He saw a strength in me. Well, and it's...

Very appealing that you have a desire to be independent. Yeah. Because it shows a strength in you. It's not just about the money and making money and being, but it's... I was finding my self-sustaining. Yeah. I was finding my own identity. And how could you create really and truly your own identity under a legend like Rod Stewart?

Yeah. How would you be able to rise? But he was the one that helped me. Yeah. And just like you, he's somebody that wants to encourage. Every time I said, I can't do that. Yes, you can. But I wouldn't be able to do that. And I'm not good at that. Yes, you are. Yes, you can. Constantly. You know, you hear from your parents and you think, because I never heard it from my teachers. But you hear from your parents and you think, well, they're my parents. They're going to love me no matter what, aren't they?

But did you ever have a partner before, Rod, that cheerleaded you in the way that he has? No. Well, I'd only had one. One. Because really, Penny, I look at you and I see a very sorted, confident, very beautiful woman. And it's hard to find a man that can handle that without feeling threatened or trying to put you down a bit so you don't get too confident because otherwise you're going to fly away. It would take someone really confident. Very experienced.

Yeah. And to feel comfortable boosting your confidence in the knowledge that... I mean, the first moment we saw each other, he offered me an opportunity in the photography. Yeah. You know, that was the first... Can I tell you the time I fell in love with him, with regards to you, though, in, I fell in love with him because of how he is with you. Aw. Was around the menopause.

I was like It is a time often when men are a bit like her indoors She's gone like old sweaty mess angry Throwing things I don't know what to do And it's a bit of a joke When I saw Rod With you talking about the menopause

I was like Yes Rod Well done It was so What was that like for you that experience Because you know you wouldn't I don't mean to be rude or anything But he's a rock legend

you wouldn't kind of expect him to be that guy? Well, I always knew he was that guy. Yeah. But, you know, he's always stood up for and being the champion for the underdog. Yeah. For the person that can't stand up for themselves, doesn't have a voice for themselves.

So whether he was talking about encouraging men, finger up the bum, no arm done, when it comes to looking at the potential of prostate cancer. You know, don't fear it, men. Get out there and do it. And for a rock star. Yes. To talk about being vulnerable again,

talking about those insecurities, those taboo subjects. And seeing how I'd been manipulated and taken advantage of by men, or whether it's by men, by the system, by society. And this was just one of those other. scenarios where women are trying to forge their way. They're trying to come together. They're trying to speak out. They're trying to be heard.

If I can help them. And at the end of the day, although 50% of society going through menopause, the other 50% are going through it with us. Whether it's the husband or the brother or the, you know, they're all going through it. Absolutely. So like, I remember when we talked to. in front of parliament. And I said, I know Boris Johnson's wife's not at that age, but

he will forever regret the day he never gave HRT to women for free, because he'll soon find out exactly what it is all about, and it's not just his wife that will be going through it. He will be, the men go through it too.

So, it's a full circle, isn't that? Can I ask you about when you found out you a perimenopausal because there'll be many listeners here at that stage of their life or they will know someone a bit like you were saying they'll either be a partner of or a work colleague of because it was really interesting your journey

because it was misdiagnosed. Could you just tell us what happened? It was compounded by quite a few different factors. I mean, we all know that when we go into the hormone journey, that's at our adolescence when we're teenagers. So my son was a teenager It's classic, isn't it? I was coming out the other side

Yeah Losing my hormones He was gaining them and I was losing them We were on We were two trains on a track Heading towards each other It was like Just blowing up

But then we'd be like crying and hugging and making up And Rodby like What is going on with you two? Like screaming and shouting And then you're all cuddling and making up like you said. Oh, I mean, yeah, I loved doing all the apologies and hugs afterwards.

But the fights were awful. That's a lot, right? I remember, I mean, I had the same thing, the rage. Yeah. To 60, really terrifying. But then to compound that as well, we were in lockdown. Oh, God, of course, yeah. So then you go, you can't go anywhere.

He's a teenager, that's why we're fighting. We're in lockdown. That's why I'm going mad. And then when lockdown first happened, there were no tests, were there? But one of the symptoms was high temperature. Sweating, right. I mean, I've got my hyperhidrosis. I've always had that.

Yeah. But this is next level though. This was this furnace. It was like I was in a quadrant. And I kind of like look at it like in the old days when there were witches. And they would burn them at the stake. and there was these crazy, crazy women that were absolute lunatics

but I think they were menopausal. I think they were menopausal. They were all locked up and killed and hung and they were just menopausal going absolutely crazy. But that heat would just burn all the way up and you would feel it rising like mercury. And you can't do anything about it. Nothing.

And you just think, and it was hotter, hot. And you're thinking, I'm going to combust. How much hotter can I possibly get? And then suddenly goes, oh and then it would start down and it would be like my son my oh he was he's 14 now but he was much

Aidan yeah and he would open doors and windows go get him mummy quick the breeze is coming he's coming and like and waft every you know here go mommy like this they'd all come round and waft me down once I've

once we realised that it was this symptom of women of a certain age we still didn't really know what it was so that was my first symptoms. But I thought initially I was, I had COVID. But then when I got on top of the covers in the middle of the night, then I turned into an ice block and it was freezing cold. I'm like, well, that's not the symptom, hot and cold. I sound like I've got the flu or, but anyway, there was much more important things happening because people are dying and then, you know, and all this.

So you just park. So it was just like, come on, just be strong, carry on kind of thing. And then it was one day we were in England, all hunkered down together. And it was, you know, that convey about of like breakfast and lunch and dinner and da-da-da-da-da-da-da-d-da. You know, like it was like ground hold day. And the kids were doing homeschooling and, you know, it was like that was another level. So I got the dinner ready. And I'm like, boys, boys, calling, calling, going, nothing. I'm thinking, it's getting cold now.

I'm thinking, you know, just getting wound up. And I'm thinking, why am I getting wound up about dinner? You know, like it's just not in my character. Not you? Yeah. It's, there's your dinner if it's cold, you know, and I was getting aggravated and the anxiety was building over the most silliest things. Finally, they come into the kitchen and they're rowing and then suddenly I fuse blue. We can all relate to this penny.

I picked up these plates and I just went just threw them across the room because my screams and my cries and my weakness. Nothing was being seen. Nothing's working. Nothing was working. So the smashing of the plates, they all were just like, and Rob, right, boys, in the other room, quickly, quickly. And then I just slid down the side and in this heap in the corner of the kitchen, just going, crying. Because I think what happens, so many women say to me, I don't recognise myself anymore. And these things, I think rage for me and for so many other women was the most, frightening and disruptive

because rage firstly isn't really accepted in women full stop but when it happens and you're actually quite a pacifist which I know you are it's so overwhelmingly frightening what am I turning into

yes who am I it's a loss of identity yeah isn't it yeah so Rod as Rod is comforted me like he didn't know what it was so he couldn't help me or fix me He's like, we've got to get to the bottom of this.

You know, you can't carry on like this. We can't carry on like this. I mean, how many marriages break down? At this time, yeah. Because women would just push the men as way and you don't understand, leave me alone and all that kind of thing. And it's like, I needed help and I wanted help. So I went to a doctor. And he, man, that wouldn't have gone through it.

Maybe he had not seen anyone around him. But if he had, I'm sure lots of women had a similar conclusion. planes, didn't recognize it. And as we know, when you're training to be a doctor, it's not compulsory, wasn't compulsory, to learn about menopause. It was like a, oh, we'd like to.

Yeah, we've got a little module over here. You could do if you want. Yeah. So I just had like it crying all the time and everything's overwhelming. Let's put you on some antidepressants. And I was like, take anything. I didn't care.

You're a doctor, you're a professional. You know what you're doing. Just whatever you think. just like, oh, let's just experiment, just help me. So I started taking them. I felt like it got worse. Yeah. It numbed me so I couldn't be happy and when at least I had some happiness when I was okay.

But I didn't get really low and angry either. I was just like numb. See, that's a frightening place to be, I think, for a perimenopausal women because you're taking the thing that's supposed to make you better. And they end up increasing it a little bit because, oh, well, maybe. Maybe we haven't got the dose right. It's not working properly. And then that still doesn't work. And then you think you're mad.

I really am mad. So how did you find out? Loose women, ladies. Yeah. Other ladies. Yeah. Been gone through it having... Isn't it amazing?

Talked about it. Of women talking. Yeah. And they were like, Penny, it's not depression. It's menopause. Yeah. But I'm not... I was like, I'm not old enough.

I'm too young. Don't be silly. Don't be silly. It was meant to be like, you know, walking cane. Like, I don't even remember my mum or, you know, never having heard of the word or I recognised the symptoms or I had a thing as well where I didn't want to admit that this was happening because I didn't, I felt like it was meaning that I had to let go of my sexiness and youth.

Yeah, and it felt of who you are. Yes, who I was. Yeah, yeah. And actually I did have to. but I mean look at you it's the birth of a new absolutely a new confidence and sexiness

that is better than before a more confident what do you find absolutely the way I see it is like the beginning of a life where you have a caterpillar and they go into the chrysalis and then the caterpillar falls away

and the butterfly is revealed. Yes. So I feel that I've become the butterfly. Yes. And I believe the chrysalis is what all women are born with. That's our protective layer. Yes. That's our barrier.

That's our invisible shield. Yes. It's the hormones. It's the progesterone, estrogen testosterone. That cacombone. That's our protective. layer. So we can take care of everyone.

We're kind of held, protected behind our hormones. Nothing can touch us so that we can go and take care of everyone, whether it's the house, whether it's our partners, our children, and we can do all of that seamlessly. You know, rising above all the bumps in the road and we can just take care. Suddenly, that chrysalis, that barrier, those hormones start. crumbling away. And to start with,

you're on the edge of that cliff and you're just trying to clamber back and hold back and hold on to what was. But in fact, if you find the help that you need, you can take off and go, I'm here.

It is amazing, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, I really love you being on this podcast in particular, I think, because obviously this concept of begin again, you've lived and breathed it all your life and getting to know you a bit

and you as a young woman, a very young woman, and feeling this sense of right and wrong and fairness and justice that you've always felt and then seeing all the activism that we've done and I've been so proud to stand next to you. Hasn't it been amazing? Like really beautiful. I fucking love you, mum. Being next to you for that has been such an honour, but you being a special constable,

but like really took the, like, I was, I was just like, she's done what? I love that. We'll talk about turning for it. Oh, it's so good. At 50. Yes. Menopausal.

How did that how? Going, well, it was the TV show. Yeah, amazing. Experiencing, working alongside regular police officers and special constables and them actually saying the reason they do what they do where they feel they can make a difference. That's you. I'm like, I've been trying to and if this is a more tactile, more, I don't know, tangible way

because we can all do our charity work and ring the bell and donate and forge and raise awareness. But this is frontline. immediate as it happens in the moment, even if it's helping just that one single person. I've seen footage of you with somebody that's been a victim of crime and it's very moving. From the TV show?

It's really like... Well, the thing is, I think a woman of our age, what we've gone through, the experience age we've had, the empathy, that is such a key to be a police officer, is having empathy, having understanding, So it's not sympathising. No, it's actual proper empathy. I know what this.

I can imagine I'm, you know, being a mother, talking to kids, making those mistakes they do. God, it's invaluable actually. Now, you saying all of that, that's really amazing. I mean, motherhood should be on a CV. Yeah. It's, you know, I can't put my A levels down. But I'm, I've lived and I've experienced and I've experienced and I've seen. scene and I've got something to offer.

So at 50, after I came out of this TV show, I was like, I think I can train. Over a period of eight months, it was evenings and every other weekend. And I did go, how is this going to affect my family? It was 200 hours a year. And in the first few years, I did over that this year, Amanda, because I spent a lot of time my husband out on tour with the kids. So I've got to catch up. But it's foot patrol on a Thursday evening, January,

around the streets, the city of London. And I mean, I could see the difference that they were having on the streets in Cambridgeshire. And I was sort of torn between, do I join the Met, do I join the city? And I love city. I love London. My father was a lawyer in the city of London.

and I love architecture. I just felt this is where I need to be. You know it. To look after the city that I love. And the community and the people. And of course they come from all over the world. So it's a real mixed bag of lots of different cultures and you've got the city people,

but then you've got all the visitors that come. And we look after the square mile and all the bridges. So sadly, when I first started on the street, It was lockdown and people would take themselves to the bridges. So that was always, and it still is a very daunting task when you get a call that someone is heading. You know, someone's threatened to take their life. But we have a great support system in the city. We have a triage nurse that's on duty.

We have the Samaritans. And there were many different agencies that work together. And as far as safety for women, There is an operation called Operation Reframe, and we have a welfare tent that is set up at Liverpool Street Station. Oh, yeah. And there's St. John ambulances, Samaritans, there's police officers, police officers from different forces as well, all coming together, where anybody can walk up. Male or female, adult child, whatever, can walk up to this safe place. Maybe not as confident to go into a police station, but this is a welfare tent.

Oh, my God. That's amazing. Yeah. And it's because the police station sometimes is a bit daunting. And it's like, I'm going to have to make a statement, whereas this is just you can come and speak. You know, in complete confidence. And but also for someone that feels vulnerable at night, maybe they've had too much a drink and they're scared about getting on the train in the evening.

Maybe I had a group of girls come over with their friend and they thought that she'd been spiked because she'd only packed, according to them only had one drink and she was all over the place and being ill. and there could be someone that says I'm often concerned making my journey from my workplace to the station it's I've got this very dark street that I go down

well if that's brought to our attention we could do something about the safety of that street when it comes to lighting and then of course there's the ask for Angela we do a lot of so amazing a lot of our duties are to do premises checks

licensed premises checks so we go in and we make sure They've got all the correct certificates and all the toilets are how they should be and they've got all the signs up for safety and that all the staff members are aware of us for Angela. So in any predicament where any member of public feels unsafe maybe on a first date or a blind date or whatever situation

if they feel that they're trapped, they can go and ask for Angela and the bar staff will understand that means I need help and can call the police. So it's, you know, the police force are trying to understand the needs of the public and putting those safeguardings in place. I really feel like special councillors have made an enormous difference to how the nation feels in terms of safety and safeguarding.

I quickly just wanted to ask you about what being a special constable has given you because I feel it is something where you are giving to, society, but what's it giving to you? You've hit it on the now, actually, because I often get asked, why policing, why policing? And writing this book has helped me really hit the nail on the head. It's because of what I went through when I was younger, the suspects never got found. Justice was never had. And I've been searching for ways to help others and protect others.

And hello, policing just. came my way, like the two of us found one another, but I really thought that it was just another avenue for me to give back, but what it's given me in return is more than I could have ever expected. I mean, it was kind of like, is this really me in this uniform? You know, the Mr. Ben. Can I just say, I think you look so good. I'm like, oh, Penny, look, it's such a boss in that.

It's so good. But it's a serious out. I mean, it's not a sexy outfit at all. I don't know. You are a boss woman in that. The thing is, though, the members of public, you know, the police are the public and the public are the police. Yeah. We only police with the consent of the public.

But half the problem is the trust. It's weakened so much a lot of the time by what's projected in the media. And there's not enough I try to project the positive face of policing. Yes. And a lot of the public do just see a uniform. They don't see a penny, a mum, a sister, or the guy that's a brother and an uncle and a father. I don't see we're all just like you.

We're all the same. We just put the uniform on. But I mean, the police must be so grateful for you because you're such a... I'm champion. Yeah, and you're such a good role. Volunteering, how important it is to be able to volunteer if you can. I'm thinking for so many viewers who are at...

life where they might have a bit of time where they could do some volunteering and how... Penny can do it. Anyone can do it. Because I thought, genuinely thought, you have to be a certain type to be a police officer. But well, you are that type. But they need, they need all types. All types, yes. Because we're all types. So we need to ask force, needs to reflect society. Yeah, it needs a bit of everybody. That's what's great about the specials, because they come from all sorts of walks of life. They don't come from police families necessarily. There can be everybody and anybody. And I think that feeling of knowing right from wrong

is at the core of everybody that wants to. And everyone has a story. Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone starts somewhere. And sometimes we just need to have that little bit of guidance. I was thinking about how nice this book is for your kids. Why have you written this now? Do you think?

Someone like me. By the way, everybody. Someone like me, because there are many people like me. And I think when people are going through a difficult time, a trauma, you do feel alone. You think I'm the only one going through this. But in fact, we're all going through our own ups and downs in our lives. And I've only sort of realized who I am as a person and found the confidence to be okay with my,

to be okay with not being perfect, you know, the sort of person I tried to strive to be. And it's all right to not be your best all of the time and that whatever you bring to the table is the best I can give and that's enough. And therefore I've really grown into my own and it's only now that I feel that I can pass that knowledge on to people that kind of feel lost, whether it's women or men or teaching my boys

about menopause, you know, when their teachers are a bit grumpy, just how your, the kids in your class, they're going through all their hormone changes and you're learning about that school, but this is, the women, your teachers are going through it on the other side. And so it's really just bringing everybody in. We don't want to talk to you about your boys actually, because you just. You just brought them up there and teaching them about menopause. But, you know, as a woman who has suffered at the hands of some just bad men, bringing up good boys in today's society, how important has that been to you?

Extremely important. But Rod is the best shining example of what, a gentleman, how you should treat women. I mean, some might say it's old-fashioned bad. But I think they're cause. It's lovely. You know, just this standing up at the table when a lady leaves the table, you know, opening a door for someone. There might be someone going, I'm strong enough. I don't need a man.

I can open my own door. That's fair enough. Yeah. That's how you want to be. That's fair enough. But I think it's supporting you. I think it's politeness. Yeah.

Yeah. Open the door for the guy that's standing there. It doesn't have to be a woman, but it's just having manners and consideration for other people. people. It's not, you know, we're all in a rush to get somewhere, but there's other people standing beside you, behind you, like just look out for everybody around you. And Rod and I, of course, like any couple, will have our disagreements. And sometimes he might say, says things to me that he might regret or thinks, oh, I could have chosen a better way of putting my message across. And I remember there was one time we were in a lot of,

in the car and we were taking the boys at school. And it was just all rushing around like you do in the morning and we're in the car off the way. And we were disagreeing about something. The boys were in the back. And then Roger said, stop the car. I said, stop the car. And he's

turned around to the boys in the back and he said, you need to listen to this. He said, mommy, I'm sorry. He said, I shouldn't have spoke to your mother like that. He said, he So we can have disagreements and we can say things that we don't really mean, but we never want to hurt that person really.

Oh, how good is that? So you always say sorry. Oh, so great. And that makes you the best man you can be. Yes. So their parenting like that from the same page is so important. I'm so pleased you've got each other. Me too.

Honestly. I'm pleased at you guys. Oh my God. Try it. And this book really is an amazing, it's like being held. And I think it's something that your kids will love, but I think lots and lots of people, men and women actually, I feel like we'll get a lot from this. Thank you to be. And thank you from the bottom of my heart for being so honest.

It's hard. It's hard to flush it out, but I think it was important. It's important. Yeah. Yeah. And I can't tell you how much love and respect I've got for you. You're kind of like a new friend for me, but just for all the work that you've done for other women. And I really admire you.

And thanks for being part of my life and everyone else's now. Thank you, darling. I love you.