Begin Again with Davina McCall - Peter Crone: How to Free Your Mind and Finally Feel Enough

Episode Date: November 27, 2025

What if the stories you tell yourself are the only thing standing between you and freedom? In this episode, Davina sits down with The Mind Architect Peter Crone to explore how our subconscious blueprints shape everything, from our relationships and self-worth to the fears that silently control us. Peter reveals how to let go of old narratives, why your past doesn’t define you, and the surprising truth about feeling "not enough." If you’ve ever felt stuck, ashamed, or trapped by your own mind this conversation might change everything. Don’t forget to leave us 5 ⭐️ 's, comment 💬, & follow for more stories🌱 (00:00) Intro   (02:51) Introduction to The Mind Architect   (04:23) Masculinity, Control, and the Need for Safety   (08:55) Finding Love and Living Authentically   (14:50) Peter on His Parents and Self-Sufficiency   (18:46) Love Epiphany and Becoming The Mind Architect   (20:39) What It Means to Be Human   (30:07) Aura Frames ad (31:20) From Trauma to Love and Self-Acceptance   (36:36) The Stories We Tell Ourselves and How to Let Go   (44:32) Finding Freedom Through Shifting Perspectives   (53:05) Davina’s Personal Experience with Feeling Loneliness  Sponsored by : Auraframes - https://auraframes.co.uk & use code DAVINA for £45 off Carver Matt Frames Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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multiply at a rate that would make a rabbit say yo. Chill. But Laura shopped on Amazon and saved on cleaning spray, countertop wipes and fly traps. Hey, fruit flies, your baby boom ends here. Save the Every Day with Amazon. The Mind Architect, you've got this kind of magic gift of getting inside someone's head and seeing them very quickly. I need you to explain that. As I say, I don't solve problems, I dissolve them. You need to look into who could you be in the absence of your concerns.

I love that. How did you know you had that gift? My conditioning is courtesy, albeit tragically, of my parents' passing when I was young. So my mom died when I was seven. She'd been sick with cancer for a while, and my dad died on a boat that capsized. In a weird way, it sort of afforded me my own sovereignty. Actually, the soul is born into an invisible prison, and then the percentage of people going back to these prisons that we all have,

it's probably over 90%. Because I'm the one that's got to change. Not the country, not the friends, not the wife or the husband. It's me. Yes. What's interesting is how interlinked love and letting someone be their true selves are... Honestly, the most important part of love and connection and commitment is

to liberate yourself is the only purpose of being human. That's it. Not to get married, have kids and make money and have fame and more followers because you can't access true health and vitality if you don't free your mind first. So to find freedom, you have to... So, Peter Crone, I am so... I'm fangirling right now.

I love what you do online. You are changing the world, I feel like. You are injecting you've got this kind of magic gift, the mind architect. Yes. Of getting inside someone's head and seeing them very quickly it feels like. Mm-hmm. And then getting in there and making them get to a point where they solve something. Yes.

And watching that happen, I've got goosebumps like just even talking about it is quite magical. So I just want to say thank you for being here. Thank you, my dear. I can't wait to unpick life with you. That means the world to me. Really, really. I mean, your authenticity precedes you. I mean, outside coming to greet me from your genuine enthusiasm for the fact that I'm here.

And it means the world. So thank you for having me on. And I hope today's conversation touches not just the minds, but the hearts and souls of everybody listening. This is what I love is that I know that I can kind of unpick. almost any topic and you are you talk about blueprints quite a bit because I like I like the idea that this architect theme runs through your ideas and and these blueprints that we adopt as people that shape our entire lives and sometimes they can be quite damaging and it's about unpicking those but I quickly wanted to touch on something you've just said about men yes and

we were touching on a bit that it's quite hard to find good men and equally I think it's quite hard to find good women I think people are finding it hard to find good people for each other yeah and I know a big thing about that you're interested in it is control so let's start there maybe getting rid of control but yes and understanding really the difference between the distinction as you speak that comes to mind is the difference between force and power so control I think falls more into the bucket of force when people will become control freaks or they're perfectionists or they have OCD. It's really where we've been hurt sufficiently had failures, trials and tribulations. And now we're trying to control our environment

as a means of garnering security. So for you sharing about Michael, why it's so beautiful. And I reflected that you've got the right man because if he can hold space for someone as beautiful, dynamic, expressive, intelligent, creative as you, then that speaks volumes about him, right? because a lot of men, they crumble in the face of the feminine, especially bearing in mind the biology of cycles and hormones and the four stages of what it is to be a woman. You know, I joke with my friends, you have four different girlfriends every month, you know,

and if you don't understand the dynamics of what that is, you need to look into it. But it is a shame that a lot of, and it's both sides, there's no pointing fingers of my masculine brothers or women for being overly emasculating of their partners. But it is hard because most people are stuck in their own world of inadequacy, insecurity and scarcity. So it just manifests in different ways.

If a man feels inadequate, then he's more like a little boy and he might attract a woman who's very dominant or strong, which is her compensation for something else, right? And if a woman is weak or inadequate or feels insecure, she might play like a little girl and then attract a man who is overly dominant as well and controlling of her. So it works both ways. But I think sadly, as a man, I try to encourage men to step up a bit and recognize that, you know, women don't want to have another child that is in an adult body. So if, say, a man has had a childhood which has led to him being childish himself, how can he break that unhealthy blueprint? There's many layers to it. You know, obviously you see me in work or in process.

And so for a man, typically as stereotypes, men are in the realm of performance, right? So, you know, men want to be strong, fast, successful, wealthy, great in the bedroom. It's all in the realm of performance. For women, typically, it's all around appearance, right? So the industries that appeal to the feminine are cosmetics, clothing, hair, style, about our beauty. Yeah. So they're the stereotype. So for the masculine who struggles a bit, doesn't feel that he can hold space like your partner does for you,

or even in the workplace where he feels inadequate, embarrassed, has a little bit of social anxiety, doesn't know how to present, can't seem to get through the invisible ceiling in his own career. Typically, there's going to be something in the realm of not feeling enough about who he is. So it's in the value bucket of his own self-worth. And so as a generalization, everyone can relate to not feeling good enough at some stage of their life, maybe still now. And so I help people to investigate the validity of those narratives, right? And he can recall that his older brother was stronger, faster, smarter. And so as a little boy, maybe he felt he was less than, which appropriate for the kid, not appropriate for a 30, 40, 50, 50 year old man

anymore. So unfortunately, those narratives tend to stick with us. And as we go through life, we accumulate more and more evidence for them. So they become even, you know, heavier. So it's really whatever you're struggling with as a man is to look at, okay, what are the underlying stories that you've accumulated through life? Typically, not always, but it's usually the relationship with the dad, maybe the overly dominant himself, perhaps not very affectionate, wasn't making space for his own son to have feelings. It was very much more that disciplinarian sort of military approach of do this, don't do this. I know that's old school, especially in England. It's unfortunately still present. So a man might not know how to access his

feelings. So that's part of it. But then on the flip side, safety to me is like the primary need for everybody. I so agree with that. Right. To have the feeling of being safe. For the feminine, it does show up a little bit more practically as safe. Like you're walking around the streets of London late at night. You don't physically feel safe. Like what happens if I run into someone untoward and I get into a bit of a sticky situation? That's a physical safety. But the one I think that gets overlooked a little bit to also support men is women don't always know how to provide emotional safety for a man because of this sort of archetype of, well, you've got to be strong. Yes.

But then it doesn't allow a man to be vulnerable. So oftentimes you see men who suppress, repress their own feelings because they're not allowed to, you know, boys don't cry. And so that becomes over time dysfunctional too, where the folks. focus can be on the feminine as being bitchy or nagging or, which it can occur that way, but it's more that what the man feels is I can't just express myself without being reprimanded. And so for women out there listening, who I'm assuming are the bigger part of your audience, you know, it's also take responsibility on that side, right?

You don't need to molly cuddle and baby your man, boyfriend, husband. But are you a safe space for him to release whatever he's dealing with? I think what's interesting with that is how interlinked love and letting someone be their true selves are, because there is something extremely attractive about being with a man that can be his true self. But if there is something lacking in your relationship and then when a man is his true self, you get the ick,

then that is not your man. Yeah. Because I think if you, if you over, if you overall really have a blanket kind of real genuine care for someone, it doesn't really matter what they do, I mean, within reason. But it doesn't, you know, I often hear about women talking about people's clothing. And, oh, we went on a date, first date, you know, dating out, and he wore these kind of shoes. And I was like, ugh.

And I thought, do you know, when you see him for the 10th date and he's won you over with his mind and he's really funny and interesting and in touch you won't give a shit about his shoes no so it's it's frustrating isn't it when you think yeah oh don't go for the little because when you fall in love with someone's spirit yeah everything about them becomes super attractive even the way they cry and that is love you know love is all embracing and the person who's pointing out something as superficial as a pair of shoes really if they were to be fully aware of their own conditioning, they're not so concerned about that person's shoes, but their own sense of inner judgment.

Yes. Right. So you meet somebody at the level from which you, yourself, predominantly live. So if somebody's very preoccupied with their appearance, that's what they're going to see, because that's where they're attending to that level. If somebody's very conscious about their body, you know, maybe they're not in shape right now. So they might show up to a date focused on, oh, is that person thin, overweight, chubby, you know, whatever, because that's their narrative.

Right. Yeah. So it's also revealing not just if somebody's, you know, maybe this person does have great particular style and they're able to objectively, you know, create this picture of their date. But it's still, it's got nothing to do with the person. You know, there's a great book. I never read it, but intuitively I read it because a friend gave it. it to me and explained it.

Yes. But it was called blindness. And it's a society where everybody's blind. Yeah. Amazing. Right? Not that I wish that on upon people, and obviously there's many people out there who struggle with that quite literally, but what it pointed to, which I speak from and what you just alluded

to, is who are we in the absence of some sort of visual analysis? Like if we couldn't see people, we would be reliant on our own ability. to feel and interpret their kindness, their sensitivity, their ability to listen, you know, to what we're actually saying. We wouldn't be so preoccupied with whatever, hair, skin, shoes, right? And so there's something beautiful for anyone out there who's trying to find a relationship. You know, where do you have that same sensibility of self-acceptance? If you could almost be blind to your own imperfections, which is really a form of love, really integrate and accept all the things you don't like about yourself. That, to me, is the

raison d'être of self-love, right? It's not about baths and fluffy toys and blankets and, you know, manicures and going to the spa. That's wonderful. Real self-love is to what degree can I fully embrace all of me, including the part of me that doesn't feel lovable. That would be the greatest precursor to any date because then you're not going to see shoes and hair and bank accounts. You're going to feel the essence of somebody's authenticity. It's quite interesting where you talk about loving yourself and even the bits that you feel are unlovable because it's like I always think that that's what people

are thinking about when they talk about the 18-month bit. Okay. You know, when you fall in love at the beginning and it's all blissful and you're in honeymoon period and then everybody says by 18 months, it's like you've seen warts and all. Yes. And it's almost like you want to get it all out.

Yeah. Like get it out. Beginning. From the beginning. Yeah. This is me. Yeah. These are the good bits.

These are the bad bits. Right. You know, brace yourself. At least it's extended. I thought it was seven months. So there's some hope. I know. It was a seven month.

Only moon period. Maybe people aren't intelligent enough to get what they need to get. They're like, we need to add another 11 months. I don't think you need to have had a really big disagreement about something. Oh, for sure. You need to travel. Preferably live in the same place for a while. Yeah.

If you don't fully move in under the same roof for a couple of weeks. go through some, you know, hard knocks, not necessarily hoping, but maybe the passing of a loved one or a parent who has to go to hospice or, you know, how does the other person show up? You know, can you rely on them? Yeah, for sure. Relationships are fascinating, aren't they? They're just, I think the greatest conduit to self-realization, if you're willing to pay attention. Attention is everything. Otherwise, it becomes just an excuse to maintain your own limitations.

It's their fault, not mine. I mean, this is something that happens a lot, is blaming other people for issues that you might be having. I thought it was quite interesting. Sometimes when you're younger and the same thing keeps coming up, you're like, well, that's nothing to do with it. You know, you're blaming other, but everybody else. And at some point you go, in a minute. They go see a partner. Like, I feel like I'm, I'm recognizing.

something that I'm doing. What I think is interesting about you, Peter, and I'd quite like to unpick this a little bit, about you as a person, is, you know, I know you started in fitness and you were training people, elite athletes, Hollywood royalty, like you've worked a lot of really big people, but you saw something, and you thought,

hang on a minute, it's not just about training. There's something that I could do in partnership with this that could really change people's lives. Yeah. And I like this idea that you are a mind architect because having seen you work, I mean, I've seen you a lot on Instagram. I like Instagram as a social media platform.

And mind architect is such a great name for you because you literally unpick people in front, like in real time. Yes. But that's such a gift. Like how did you know you had that and where did that come from? It's like witchy woo watching you. Well, thank you. I can't state claim to the gift, the magic, the skill. I just know that by virtue of everything that we've all been through, my conditioning is my conditioning. And I know courtesy, albeit tragically, of my parents passing when I was young. I was... Could you just explain how old you were? Because that was very, very young, I think.

Yeah. So my mum died when I was seven. She'd been sick with cancer for a while. Do you remember that? Don't. No, I don't. I've been asked many times, you know, what was that like? It would be in there. I'm sure it's stored to some degree. Like all of us carry, you know, the body keeps score, right? So we can suppress as much as we think we can, but the body and the emotions are going to be tucked away somewhere. And of course, just by virtue of my commitment to my own work and my own sense of freedom, which is my main product, I have looked at things as best as I can.

and many things that may have not been revealed yet, I hope will come to the surface during the course of my life. But I do know that my mum was amazing and beautiful and adored me, you know, and that very much carried into my dad who probably now looking in hindsight, if I were to analyze, you know, he overcompensated. But for me as a kid from 17, which is when he died, he was in the Harold of Zabrigger disaster. you know, where the boat capsized and almost 200 people lost their lives.

He, you know, worship is a strong word, and most parents could probably, you know, relate to that. But I really felt he did worship me in the way that he would do anything for me. And I was such a sweet, it's kind of comical now to look at how comfortable I am on stage and doing things like this. But I was horrifically shy as a kid, you know, very quintessentially British, sort of hold onto my dad's trouser leg. type boy. Anyway, points is that my dad just adored, you know, the ground that I walked on. And so it was challenging, but nonetheless, I've often said, you know, how many of my friends whose fathers are still alive after 60, 70 years got the same amount of love as I got in 17.

And I don't know many. So very impactful in the way that I was taught what love looked like. So I think that's part of my gift is that I was really given, you know, the foundation of unconditionality. I was never hit. Of course, reprimanded is even a strong word. You know, I remember once I stole a sleeve of golf balls as a young, you know, 13-year-old kid or whatever trying to impress my friends at a golf tournament. That was about it. And my dad just, you know, he sat me down and he said, you know what's right and wrong.

Like, and if you need golf balls, just tell me, you know. And it was just, there was such a grace about the way that he raised me. So I think much of that. And then I think just energetically in ways that I couldn't obviously comprehend at the time, being as my product, my main product is freedom. I think much of the genesis of me as a man and my career was also because I didn't have to deal with family in a weird way. Right. Yeah.

Right. So I would love nothing more than my mom and dad's walk around the corner and to surprise me. and I have no doubt that they're beyond proud in their own way, wherever they're looking from. But I think the fact that as an only child, no parents, it afforded me, albeit to begin with, terrifying, but my own world. Yes. And so, like, friends of mine now who are dealing with ailing parents, sick parents, the tussle with siblings of, well, who's taking mum to hospital this week? You know, it creates a bit of aggravation and trauma. So whilst it's not something I wish upon anyway, anyone in a weird way, it sort of afforded

me my own sovereignty. Yes. So that's part of it. And then the rest, if you're into astrology, I've got Mercury and Jupiter in the first house, which means I'm a teacher, a communicator and a guru. So if some great astrologer was looking at my chart, yeah, didn't know who the hell Peter Chrome was, they could probably say, oh, this guy's probably good with language and he teaches people. So it was

calmic. But something that I'm incredibly grateful for because there's not, was we're discussing off air. You know, even walking around London, I certainly get it all around the States. I was in a cave in Ibiza of all places, remote. And there were three people in there doing some ceremony. I walk in, they're like,

Peter Crone. Really? So great. It was beautiful, though, you know, of all the places. So it has afforded me a beautiful life, so I'm very grateful. I really would attribute a new level of hearing my subconscious from really probably 50, interestingly, very much tied in with menopause. You know, you were talking about women's hormones and going out with a woman

and you get four versions of your woman. That was so true of me. You know, I was that woman on a wave, you know, constant wave. Yeah. And there was something really heavy. about getting to menopause and being kind of like this, a really gentle, undulating person where I was kind of, I knew where I was going to be every, it was just like where was my mood at. It wasn't, I'm returning. I was, because I don't want to, it's not flatlining. It's definitely not that. No.

It's undulating. Yeah. It's graceful versus like the roll of those. It feels good. But what I'm trying to say is that what I can do now is I can hear messages from my subconscious or something saying to me, that feels good, follow that, don't listen to this, go here. But it feels to me like you had a massive epiphany quite young, really. It's amazing.

And then once you'd had one, did that mean you had this fine-tuned hearing for other lessons to be learned? Yeah, both for myself and others. I think that, you know, on Chris Evans show this morning, we're talking about communication and what's the most important part of communication to me is listening. Yes. Even though we're under the oppression, to communicate even implies that we're saying something, and of course I say a lot, but it's invariably because people are asking and they want to listen. So in any relationship, professional, familial, romantic or, you know, personal, like your greatest gift to a wonderful relationship is to learn how to listen. So that did, you know, sort of open the floodgates of awareness for me.

So not only to my own shortcomings and my own fears and narratives of limitation, but then I suddenly saw The Matrix and, you know, I'm writing my book right now. I'm finishing it hopefully by the end of this year because a lot of people out there who are quite upset at me for having been talking about it for over a decade. I'm working on it, I promise. And so it's the best marketing campaign ever. I've been talking about it for 15 years of marketing.

What's going to be called? Do you know? Finding freedom. Oh, great. Yes, of course. You're proud. Yeah. So I delineate these 10 prisons that we all have as part of our subconscious, you know, that is intrinsic to being human. Like we're all born with these constraints.

And life will, as you may have heard my quote, present you a people and circumstances to reveal where you're not free. Yes. And so when I saw, that wasn't the moment that I saw the whole archetype of what it is to be human. That got refined over the coming years. But it did allow me to see, wow, just the nature of what it is to be human, a soul, limitless, boundless, but confined within the narratives of limitation of inadequacy, insecurity and scarcity, that delta, that conflict and that the way that the soul is born into an invisible prison is to me the raison d'etre of what it is to be human to liberate ourselves.

So wait, Peter. I need you to explain that in simpler terms. Okay. So a soul, you're talking about a soul being born inside a person and it is a raw, like beautiful thing. Yes.

But then what happens? So I think to go back a little bit even further. Yes. So a being, soul, spirit, whatever way you want, or pure consciousness, is the essence of who we are. And I would assert what we're looking for. So the space we look from is the space we look for, right?

So meaning I say the seeker is the sort. What does that mean? The seeker who we're looking is the sort, meaning you're what you're looking for. Oh, okay, yes, okay. Right? So that's how this is such a great game because it's so hard to see that. Because if you look at even... How other people can see it sometimes and you can't?

Yes. Because if you understand the machinery of what it is to be human and the brain and our senses, everything's exogenousously facing. Like I look to you, I hear things, I smell things. It's all outside of me. So therefore it makes sense if so fact that my experience is because of everything I'm experiencing out there. So if what I experience hurts, well then I'm going to do everything I can to avoid out there or control out there.

And if everything feels good, I'm going to do everything I can to replicate or chase that. Yes. Right? So that's the world from the human perspective. So what I'm saying is, yes, just Peter Cronin's perspective, born, immaculate souls, timeless, boundless, limitless, the sole characteristics contain all the qualities we as humans are looking for. Love, self-worth, power, freedom.

They're all intrinsic parts of our essence. However, we're in this dimension of planet Earth because it's a perfect container because souls we're still currently misidentified with limitations. So we're souls that have still got the sheath of some sort of fear or narrative. And planet Earth is a perfect place to figure that shit out because you're going to get triggered. So the soul with the conversations and the constraints with which we arrive is the way I look at it. You think we arrive with those constraints?

you don't think they happen to us. No. Because if it were the latter, if it was really because your dad was a drunk and he never gave you love and he beat you, which again don't want to make sort of seem blazze. But if it's really because of that that you feel that nobody loves you,

now what you're saying is all my power is over there with that human being. I call dad. You can't do anything about it. You're a victim. Right. And that's a horrific way to go through life. Yes.

If you're a soul who's come into this particular paradigm to liberate yourself, which to me is the only purpose of being human. That's the real game of first. Liberate yourself. That's it. That's it. Not to get married, have kids and make money and have fame and more followers. And that's fun.

I do it all. But it's the cart before the horse if you're doing that to try and find freedom. It's like I spoke of this health optimization summit. And I said, you can't access true health and vitality if you don't free your mind first. Yes. by the cryogenic chamber, buy hyperbaric, do all the peptides, you know, you've got the best shaman and body worker and whatever it is, that's great. But it's going to be, as I like to phrase it, the way that you become the best version of your limited self.

And if people really get that, it's quite revelatory, right? It's like, wow, if you live in this space here, which is, say, 600 square feet, I've functioned in feet now that I'm in America. But whatever it is, you know, then we could, you've done a great job here. but someone who's an interior designer wants to make this a little bedroom. They come in put beautiful piquet wood floors from Paris and have gorgeous sink and, you know, all the best appliances and they could transform the space, but what hasn't changed is the size of it.

Yes. And that's how most people function as humans is that they do this interior design of their own limitations to make them prettier. What I'm doing is shattering limitations and exposing you to another world of your own true essence. So soul arrives, constrained in limitations, the opportunity that it is to be human is through self-reflection and sadly but that's the way we get there

triggers and adversity the broken hearts the job that you got fired from the parent that died whatever is that you have to go through is to reveal oh hang on a minute i might already have everything i'm looking for and that to me is the journey of what it is to be human and triggers and adversity are good they're the gift yeah right i get poetic with my quotes where i say your fears are the beacons that light the path to freedom. Most people try to get away from their fears, escape their fears, numb their fears, no, go into them. It's like run forwards. Yeah. Run into them. Head on. Understand them, disseminate them, you know, unpack them, talk to a loved one about it. And that's the hard thing is going back to our conversation earlier

about relationships, people sometimes struggle to find someone who's a safe enough space to speak into vulnerably enough to be able to really understand where did that, where did that fear get born. It's not because of dad or mum. They might have been the catalyst to turn on like epigenetics. You know, like if we have diet and lifestyle and we're predisposed genetically to a weakness in our heart or in our nervous system with Parkinson's, then yes, diet and lifestyle epi above genetics. To me, this is like epi-emotional genetics, right? Whatever triggers you emotionally is also going to turn on whatever constraints you've yet to transcend. That's the gift. That's the opportunity. until eventually you get to, you know, the navana of what it is to be a human is maybe to

realize that you're okay no matter what. I'm not a victim of circumstance anymore. I can be with whatever's happening. Not easy, but very powerful. And that goes back to what I said earlier, the difference between being forceful, trying to control the environment versus being powerful, I'm okay in any environment. Very different worlds. Come sit.

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Saving those children is how we all go home. From Binge All Episodes exclusively on Paramount Plus. It's amazing to think that you didn't know what your mom was like. But you know she loved you. Mm-hmm. But you didn't have long enough with her to understand what character traits you've got from her. You know, we talk about genetics. I ended up estranged from my mom.

She lived in Paris, which was quite handy for me. It's like the UK became my safe space. Yeah. But he said to me, all my favourite bits about you probably came from your mum. Right. You know, the kind of like I love dancing. I love going out. Like I play.

Yeah. And I thought, oh, you know, we did have a really difficult relationship. But I have a lot to be thankful for from her. And there was something about owning, owning a piece of her inside me and allowing her to be there. Yeah. And not feel angry about it. It's really nice.

But it also speaks volumes about Michael again, you know, like the fact that he's as a man sensitive enough to feel that, know that, know that, say it. You know, also speaks volumes about your relationship with him and who you are for him, you know. But it is because the gift that I just, not to, you know, drag out that moment, but it's so beautiful that he shared with you because in the way that you encapsulated it for yourself, that you made space for the part of her that otherwise could be associated with anger. Yes.

It's the dissipation of that suffering and constraint and judgment which was within you. Yes. Which really, what I said was actually, as you made space for your mum or the residual part of her in you, what actually got turned on and activated was a deeper sense of your own. love. Yes. That's exactly what happened. Isn't that amazing? Yeah. And that's so beautiful. Because at that moment, he, albeit the instigator, created intimacy. Yes. Because a part of you that he's probably been aware of, just in the way you speak or your energy that may have, you know, without being too harsh, judge your mom in whatever way, that's the antithesis of love, right? And there's a much

hard of quote of mind for people to swallow by say anything that's not love is abuse. Well, that's interesting. And that's a hard one, right? Because there's obviously a gradient of abuse, you know, people who are at the far end as like child trafficking, horrific, tragic, abhorrent. But I would still say for a kid who's at a dining table, asked to leave without any kind of interaction or told to go to the room, it's a form of abuse.

They're not being hit, you know, but in the absence of love, there's abuse. So really there was a form of, you know, your own self-abuse, through the judgment, rightly so, that was still in you, which is a dis-ease, the absence of ease, that he just helped through love and connection and commitment to you. And I hope people really get, you know, through you as an inspiration. And again, I'm of course not saying that we should welcome the people that have been literally abusive in our lives back in.

No. You know, there's abhorrent things that happen out there. You know, you don't want to have those people around for Christmas. But nonetheless, we want to, at best we can, to expand our own capacity to love, to incorporate and at least understand why or who they are and for some reason, maybe in ways we don't comprehend, they're a part of our life and for that reason teaches. You know, I'm not particularly religious, but I pull tenants

from different religions and, you know, I'm always reminded of when Jesus said, forgive them, Lord, they know not what they do. I mean, here's a guy being nailed to a cross and he still comes from love. I mean, I don't have that strength. You know, I'd be fighting like hell to get out of there. But, you know, I'd like to at least try and embody Christ's consciousness in my work to go to your question of like what do I do I think what Michael did for you as a partner obviously a much more appropriate container for that but I feel I bring that to strangers you know that I don't judge them I love them I let them be who they are and that might be for a lot of people the first time they've ever felt that yes it looks like that sometimes yeah as a viewer yeah and so for me it's a

gift to know that I'm able to afford someone perhaps the first glimpse of self-acceptance it's okay. It's okay. Whatever you feel about yourself, whatever you went through. And a lot of the stories I hear are very tragic. They're hard for people to hear when there's sexual abuse, especially for women and stuff, and they've been through it. But nonetheless, that's what I'm doing, first of all, is having unconditional love as a space, as a container. So somebody feels safe enough to express. That's more than maternal. You know, I think the feminine represents unconditional. and then I'll come in at the appropriate time with the masculine form of love, which is more analytical. So you could say feminine is more unconditional, gushy nurturing love. Masculine is more

like tough love, but it's love, right? I'm a stand for your excellence. I'm a stand for you being responsible and being powerful. So I hold the space, gives people the opportunity to feel unjust and that they're okay to be them and to share. And then I will help through whatever they share them to understand why they look at life that way. Where did that start? Where did you think that you're not wanted? Who was the sibling in your family that was the rebel or the outspoken one that made you think you have to be the good girl not to add extra onus on your parents? You know, who within your neighborhood was the one that was the perfect child and you felt less than because of that, you know? So I'm then able to hear in the way they tell their story like my live event last week,

you know, lovely girl from Poland got on the stage 26, adorable, and she's all excited to run up. And she's, you know, I said, so what can I help you with? And she said, I just, it's really hard for me to get work. It's how she started. Nothing crazy about that, but I immediately get her world. Right. I immediately hear how much she see herself. There's some lack of self-worth. The fact that she's from Poland immediately points to as a generalization, maybe a family of poverty. So she's not used to what abundance looks like. So energetically. she's not going to attract it. And so my way I'm then questioning is to get to some of these deeper, you know, stories that she's assimilated. So of course, she gets to, well, my mom was, you know,

quite hard on us and would make us work and say that we wouldn't necessarily amount to anything. And I got jobs that were really labor intensive. And so she said, yes, now as a woman, as a, as a professional, I tend to for some reason attract labor intensive jobs, you know, because that was the environment she was accustomed to. grew up in poverty, all of the things. And so to undo all of that and help her see, that's no longer a truth today. That might have been your history, but what does that have to do with today? Nothing.

Other than the degree, I said, you're speaking in front of 500 plus people, and you just told all of us it's hard to get work. That's a reflection of your history, not your future, and I'm going to change that. At the end of the conversation, she was so giddy. She was like, I can feel how many opportunities in coming my way right now. Wait, so, but what did you say? To help her see the lies that she's living in. Yes. She's not safe, was one of them.

So again, if you're not safe, you play small, that there was a feeling about her, that it was all up to her, that she had to do everything. There's no contribution from the outside world. God forbid there's any sort of good fortune that is unexpected. And this feeling that fundamentally being her wasn't enough, you know. And so I investigate all of these stories and help people see fundamentally. They're not true.

It's all made up. Like, where are you going to find not good enough in you? Tuck behind your kidneys? You know, it's like it's a story. So when people really get it and unfortunately the older get, the more evidence we have, you know, it's like, well, you know, da-da-da-da-da. It just feels more truthful, but it's not. It's a story.

And so that's what I help, you know, as I say, I don't solve problems, I dissolve them. And what I'm doing is dissolving. That was a moment. You love that? Yes. Feel free to use it. Sol problems. I dissolve them.

Yes. So every problem everybody has is just an extension of the constraints that they're still stuck in that they're oblivious to. And then they're trying to solve problems, not realizing that's perpetuating the very underlying narrative that is from your childhood. So then that's why, you know, if you comment earlier, you realize, wait, I'm the consistent theme in all of my woes. Right? Funny. Notice wherever you go, here you are. I always thought that was quite funny in the anonymous fellowships.

I shouldn't talk about it too much because the whole point is is that it's anonymous and it deserves respect. But there's a brilliant kind of slang saying in the anonymous fellowships like AA and alcoholics. Where people talk about people doing a geographical. Okay. And a geographical is always quite funny because you move countries literally

to get away from the problem of drinking or drugs. And you get to this new country and you're like, I've done it. I've escaped the problem. And then you start again, you go, God damn it, the problem's here as well. You go and do another geographical to another city. And you go, no, I'm drinking again. And then it's like, oh, it's me.

I'm the one that's got to change. Not the country, not the friends, not the wife or the husband or the education or whatever. It's me. Yes, it's your story, the identity. I remember years ago as in America and somebody wanted me to maybe do a show, a TV show and that's still in the works now, reborn because of what's going on for me, which is fun.

But it was a producer from the biggest loser. Oh, yeah. You know, I was curious because I look at the things psychologically and emotionally, and I said, you know, what are the percentages of your attendees, contestants, whatever you call them, going back to where they started?

And she said, honestly, it's embarrassingly high. It's probably over 90%. might take a few years. And I said, yeah, that's because they haven't changed their identity. They haven't changed their story about themselves. You put them in, locked them in this container with trainers and lack of food and all sorts of pressure to perform. But when they go back to the comfort of their own home, they're still living in their own story of inadequacy. So for me, that is, that's the only access to true freedom is that until you change what's going on inside and the way that you relate to yourself,

everything else is sort of just ways that you placate yourself or try to numb your, you know, I love the geographical, but you're trying to escape from the very story of yourself. I remember when I first started my group, many years ago, I was speaking in a very small yoga studio and all of about 12, 13 people showed up, half of whom probably thought there was a yoga class and disappointed, here's this clown. But anyway, they gracefully stayed. But this woman came up at the end, and I could tell there was a little bit of chemistry. and, you know, I'm the teacher.

It's that old stereotype, right? Oh, who's this guy? He's in, so she came with her conditioning of being the good girl and impressing and telling me she was going to India, you know, next week or something. And I'm like, oh, okay, well, good luck with that. And she said, well, what do you mean? I said, well, you're going to be there. Didn't go down too well.

But she got the point. I said, no, go. You'll get way more hours than if you stay at home. But the happiness is still available here, right? Yes. But geography, again, I don't want. Sorry, that's quite an interesting. idea because so many people do go abroad to these places and retreats and stuff, but actually

you can find recovery or self-improvement anyway, you just got a hook in with the right people. Yes. And environment can be inspirational, nature. Like, you know, I love to travel. I've obviously taken a little bit of a hiatus because I'm working on my things and people kindly come to me now, but I've been in all sorts of places around the world that have in their own way informed and inspired me to see things differently. So no knock on travel. I think, you know, it's one of the greatest forms of education and to be able to go to different places if time and money affords it can be the catalyst for epiphanies. But ultimately, the real spiritual work of waking up to your true essence, yes, can be found around the corner or in the comfort of your own kitchen, especially if you

have someone good to talk to who can really hold space from that kind of loving, unconditional acceptance of you. And it's okay. I can understand. that you feel like you're a loser because of what it transpired. I can understand why you think you never get married because they're not truths, but I can have compassion. And then I often, I was on a show and they said, if there was a journal and you were to put a question in the journal for everybody to answer, what would it be?

One question. And I said, who could you be in the absence of your concerns? And it's an invitation. Oh, God, okay, that's amazing. I just going to enjoy that for a second. Who could you be in the absence? absence of your concerns. If you had no concerns, no worries, whether they'd be about yourself or your circumstances, what becomes available. And for most people, a similar reaction, it's sort of

in the realm of, well, first of all, I'd feel just so apiece. I'd feel light. I'd feel free. Well, do you see that is available? Yes. It's there beneath the surface. Your circumstances didn't change. So that's the first pointer to maybe it's not out there. And could you perhaps, not easily, carry that sense of freedom and ease with you no matter what's happening. If we're talking about beginning again, you know, if somebody's out there and they're thinking I'm a bit stuck and I don't want to be here. I kind of sometimes see it a little bit like a living bucket list because my sister had a bucket list.

And then she died seven weeks later and I thought, why did we wait until now? Right. Like we've been, we lived together on and off for all our lives. Yeah. Why will we wait until now to do this bucket list together? Yeah. Do it now. So beginning again is a little bit about that.

Like do the stuff you want to do now. Like what are you waiting for? But how do you do it? So what holds people back? Reasons. People are very reasonable. Yeah. And that's the superficial level.

Obviously there's deeper levels of fear. really, as I said, you know, I delineate these two worlds, is what my book's about. We live in a current operating system that to me is dysfunctional. What it is to be human now is based in some sort of limitations in the subconscious that give rise to the overarching sense of fear, as we said, which then gives, you know, the general feeling of suffering. Whatever, suffering is a blanket statement for woe, which then creates dis-ease and that manifests in your body's disease and in relationship dysfunction in the world of material, you know, finances and career, some sense of scarcity and lack. That's the system we have. And then you just go out there and you fight and you try and

overcome it and you do the best you can. You hit your head against a wall, go home, sleep and do it again, you know. And for me, what I'm revealing is the world that's actually available beneath that. Yes. In the absence of limitation, you experience freedom. When you're in a state of freedom, instead of living from fear, you tap into love. Instead of coming from fear and then suffering, you go into love and a sense of joy. You don't see worst-case scenarios. You see pure possibility. I've often said, the uncertain world, which is the future, to the ego, creates fear.

But uncertainty to the soul is pure possibility. Yes. Two very different worlds. And then it's the same arena. Yes, the same. Yes, but completely different. Based on perspective. And that's why I said you're not victims of circumstance.

You're victims of your own perspective. Yeah. We don't look through our eyes. We look through our view of the world. Yeah. And that's what's confining people. So that's what stops people. Because that view has them believe, not as a truth, that things aren't possible or they can't or they shouldn't.

I can't. Oh, I could never do that. You know, one of the things I love, it's a tiny thing. But when a woman says to me, I've decided, Peter, that I am going to grow old disgracefully. I think it's one of the massive benefits. of getting older. I've noticed it with Miriam Margulies. Okay.

She effs and blinds. Like, I've never seen. She talks about the reason. She's literally so brilliant to be in her presence. Like when she's doing an interview or something like that. Because no shits are given. Like she literally says or does whatever she wants. So I was like, I want to dress inappropriately, generally, for a woman my age.

I mean, you've got quite a conservative version of me to. day. I'm sorry about that. I'm sorry about that. Don't worry. We'll meet again and I will wear something amazing. Totally inappropriate. But I, I, sometimes a woman will say to me, oh, I love what you're wearing, you know,

didn't it? And then they'll say, I could never wear that. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, says who? Yeah. What are like, you are literally creating, like, no one is saying that except for you. And I tell you what is so funny when you do wear the things So I remember in my parenting like phase

I was like I'm never wearing a mini skirt again I'm never wearing short shorts again I would never wear it God forbid a mini skirt and a heel at the same time Oh my God's just atrocious I would never you know ankle socks and loafers never do that Like it's like trying to be a little I don't give I literally don't give to-hoos. I will wear whatever I want whenever I want.

And the first time I started doing that, I've never felt so alive. It's so funny. Getting the tube, I remember getting the tube in a sort of kind of like an ice skating dress. Yeah. And white ankle socks and loafers. It was literally getting this like,

like up and down, up and down. It was like, yeah, you feast your eyes on things. on this mutton and proud you know because there's something number one being naughty yeah fun my mum absolutely yeah um that I enjoy I quite enjoy annoying people like there's something

yeah but I also love when somebody goes oh my God I want to me and I go do it do it like fucking just wear the thing the colour the dress the hair the lipstick be seen yes and um I love that

like aspect of freedom you're talking about freedom so it's all the weather keeps coming to mind as you speak you're just being free yeah it's such a nice nice thing that and it's underneath the illusion which you obviously transcended so beautifully is that people will say I'm worried what other people will think about me But I only transcended that.

Again, I keep talking about being in my 50s. I dreaded being in my 50s. Yeah. But this will help to reinforce it, not that you need any support. You're obviously doing great. But nobody's worried what other people think about them. They're worried what they think other people think about them.

Yeah. Which is still you with you. So you get over that. Like, who gives a crap? They're not worried. They're not thinking about me. They're thinking about themselves and what I think about them, which is still them with them.

You know, you can walk outside. And go on the streets and say, points to strangers, thanks for looking great for me today. Yes. And they're like, I don't even know you. No, but you spent time in the mirror, you checked it. Thanks for making an effort. No, but Peter, I actually do that. I actually go up to strangers sometimes on my own with no camera crew and not for social media or anything and just go, you look great.

I really appreciate that. Thank you. Thanks, Bernard. I will say that today. Yeah. Well, because I often think that when you do. put in an effort and someone enjoys or appreciates it, it's nice to tell them. No, of course.

That's a beautiful iconisha. I'm being obviously a little flippant with my version. I know. And if someone ever says anything nice about the way I look, I love it. I'm like, God, thanks, you've made my day. That's mega. It's a compliment even if it's not. Because somebody's taking energy out of their time and their day to like say something.

So even if it comes across as a criticism, if it could be triggering, then that's definitely a gift. something for you to look at where you're not okay with you because some people just say something. So a criticism if you're triggered by it is an opportunity for learning. It's still a gift. It's still a gift. Either way, it's life showing you.

Don't make it about the person, your boss, your spouse, your mum. It's life just showed you where you're not okay with something. What a gift. Because that's the access to more freedom. Right? Versus I'm not going to invite them to my birthday party, do you know, or whatever. So no. that's where life will present you with people and circumstances to reveal where you're not free.

That's what life is doing. So next time I get like a negative comment. Yeah. And it triggers something in me. I'm going to say thank you. Yeah, thank you. Because you clearly revealed something that I'm still not okay with. Yeah, thank you.

And my commitment is to freedom. Love that. Yeah, powerful. Yeah. Thanks for watching the episode with Peter. At the end, I slightly hijacked him because I needed some help with an issue. And I thought if anybody would be able to sort it, it would be him. Because after my operation, I had a problem in that I just couldn't stop crying.

It was here all the time. And it was that I'd experienced some kind of trauma at that time. and it wasn't just when I was talking about the operation. It was like five times a day. I would cry, but it would be inappropriate crying. It would frighten people. It was that. But not only that, it was frightening me, and it was exhausting,

and it was affecting my life. And I wanted to move on. It had been 10 months since the operation, and I just needed to move on. But I normally can fix all of this stuff myself. I'm really good at appraising what's wrong with me and then sorting it, but I couldn't sort this. And so he helped me. The reason why I'm telling you all of this is because it's quite a tough watch.

Ironically, I'm wearing a jumper that says never too much. But even this, for me, was a lot to watch. But he shows me something that is such a mic drop moment. I kind of collapse for a moment and cry and laugh and cry and laugh because I'm so overjoyed at the fact that I get it and I get what happened to me and it's gone and it's really gone like I haven't quite traumatically since then he's properly healed me

and I kind of wanted to show you the whites of my eyes to show you that I'm okay I'm not just okay. I'm a gazillion times better. And I want you to know as well that this chat that we had was before I had breast cancer, before I had my breast cancer diagnosis. So none of that is wrapped up in my emotion.

It was just a really big hangover from my life, from my childhood. And I feel amazing. So mad. So anyway, I hope it's not too triggering for people. And I hope you get something from it or it might help you in some way. But it's certainly been transformational for me. Peter, before we end. Yes.

So sad to even contemplate. Yeah, don't worry. It's not empty from it. Can I ask you to help me with something? Of course. You need to move furniture? No. It's in my head.

and my heart. Yes. And I'm going to start crying because like it's here every time I start talking about it. That's okay. I'm here for it. And I'm really grateful that you wanted to spring it up. I want to take advantage of you. Yeah, please. Use and abuse me.

I'm here for it. Let's go. What do you got? What are the skeletons that are about to be exposed? New. Okay. So when I had my, I had an operation last November. Okay.

And I had a health check gifted to me in August 2024. Okay. And I didn't really want it because I'm health lady. I'm Davina the exercise girl, 15 workout DVDs to my name. Yeah. I eat well. But they found a brain tumour. It was a benign brain tumour.

And I spent many months. Yeah. Well, at the first I had the word benign and I thought, well, I'm fine. I don't need to worry about that. And then four months later, they said, we think you should do a follow-up. I found that it was quite a rare thing. It was called a colloid cyst.

It was in the middle of my brain. Yeah. And it was big. And if it grew any more, it could give me hydrocephilis and I would go into a coma and die if it wasn't taken out. Okay. And I said, yeah, but how like,

how quick would that happen? And they said, look, if you were on a long haul flight, do you take long haul flights? And I was like, yes, I'd go to Australia, go and see my daughter. And they said, well, it would be emergency landing operation in wherever, whatever country you were in. What was going to? I was thinking, I think I need to get the taken out.

Yeah. Like, before that happens, I don't want it in there anymore. And I got a couple of other opinions. And I spoke to three neurosurgeons, two who potentially were going to operate on me. And one is a, I'm paying you to have an opinion. You will never operate on me. What do I do? And they said, definitely get it taken out.

It's big. I'm amazed you're not symptomatic now. You need to do this. So that was last April. Okay. And then I was like, okay, I need to get it taken out. And last November, on November the 15th, so nearly a year ago, it was removed by a brilliant brain surgeon called Kevin O'Neill.

And he saved my life. And I came to. and what happens when the colloid sister is in the third ventricle, so it's in the area of memory. Okay. So I woke up in no short-term memory at all. I was in a minute loop. Okay.

Like Dory. Yeah. And I, that was very, very difficult on me and Michael, particularly, I think. Okay. So good. This is beautiful. I appreciate you sharing. Michael said it. Michael said to me, if we ever lose each other,

again, just stay where you, I'll come find you. Mm-hmm. But I feel so lonely. But what? Lonely. Yeah. Yeah. And what's happened since the operation is that I can't stop.

I mean, I'm crying about it because I'm talking about it. So this makes sense to me that I'm crying because I'm telling you. But if I talk about anything, like four or five times a day, and I love crying. Yeah. But I feel like it's traumatic crying and I want to let go. I want to stop. It's okay.

Well, you're in a safe space and this is the right time I have this conversation. conversation. Oh my goodness. It's okay. It's okay. No, no, nothing to apologize about. It's beautiful. It's okay.

Take it tall. Take a towel. It's okay. Just breathe. Disbreatve. It's okay. It's okay. It's okay.

It's so you. It's okay. Nothing wrong at all. It's okay. Okay. Sorry. You've got a strong grip, by the way. Training work.

It's okay. It's beautiful. Just take a couple of breaths. Bit like an exorcism, isn't it? Yeah, well, I haven't done that for a while, that big. Yeah. Yeah. What would you say in everything that you shared, which I tracked,

what would you say is the thing that, felt the most impactful. Is it when you said that you just feel so alone? That felt like that was, yeah. Yeah. How often do you remember feeling that when you were young, especially with a mum like, yeah. It's okay.

Just let it, your body's just letting go, stuff. It's okay. It can be uncontrollable at times. It's okay. Take your time. is it okay so when this stuff is stored as I was saying earlier the older we get

you know and be both of us are a little long in the tooth now these conditioned patterns are that much deeper so it just just needs a bit of time and patience for it all to come to the surface it's okay but you know it's so

I am so in tune with myself yeah clearly I can see that how your body responds. I never put those two things together. That is so funny. I'm normally like Mrs. Oh, I feel like that because of this. Do you know I can almost even now

because I now know that to be a thing. Yeah. Oh man, this has just helped me so much. That's the weirdest thing. Mm-hmm. I felt so alone. I was on a WhatsApp group. Michael made these amazing WhatsApp groups to keep everybody posted.

Yeah. And I was on these WhatsApp groups and all this love was pouring out for me and for Michael. And I just couldn't bear to read it. Yeah. Because I felt I was in the hospital and I was on my own. Yeah. And I had no short-term memories. I wasn't fully aware of what was happening to me.

but I just, all I could, I was lonely. I was like literally crying out. I was so lonely. Yeah. But I didn't know why. Yeah. Felt irrational. I could see it all coming through on the WhatsApp,

but I just couldn't get to anywhere where I felt comfort. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, but you also had that experience so much. Oh, behavior, right? It's not even the behavior experience. So you think about that little girl in the presence of a mind, mother who isn't present, you're a mother.

Imagine what it would be like for a kid in the presence of a parent who's not there. What is that experience going to be like for a kid? Completely lonely. And you've done such a great job and we could really overanalyze everything in terms of your career, who you've become super gregarious, super playful. No, I did it all for my mum. No, I know that. It looked like it.

And when you don't understand it, you didn't do it for your mom. You did it for your own survival. Yeah, that's exactly it. And what's happening now is you're going through a death, it's a bit, you know, heavy or overly, you know, profound of a word to use. But that's what I heard when you were describing your menopause and you went from the peaks and the troughs of a normal cycle to this sort of more gracious undulation.

It's a death. And what I'm working with, I actually have, you know, parameters to give someone that I work with about egoic surgery and how to treat yourself afterwards. because if you had surgery, which you did, you go home and they tell you to conduct yourself and you got to rest and hydrate and drink and, you know, da-da-da. But this is a form of death that you're going through. But it's the most beautiful expression of life.

I say if you're going to stay alive, then you have to constantly die to the old iterations of yourself. This is just really, really old. This is a girl who was in a very, very scary environment, felt completely isolated, no different than you being in a bed. Yes. With all of the world around you that seems to be a good, you know, well, that is my mom and that is my parents and that everything seems to be okay. But I, my experience of life is complete isolation, which is for a girl scary as hell, right? And so much of what your body is letting go of, it's like a gazelle that gets chased by a lion in a state of being terrified.

The shudders and everything that you're experiencing now is where your tissues are releasing all of that. old trauma of a little girl who was so powerless, so scared, just wanted like any child to be loved and accepted, and didn't know how to access it until you garnered all of your skills and show plays and whatever you had to do to show and tell to try and get love and acceptance. It's like you were there. Yeah. Yeah. And it's exhausting. Do you know what? and you don't have to do that anymore. It's actually, and I want you to listen to this very carefully and look at me,

it's impossible to be alone. It's impossible. The only experience we can have of loneliness is when we're misidentified with the part of us that doesn't feel seen, heard and held. But the opportunity is for us to hold that part. You had a sole contract with your mum for her to not be fully present so that you could experience this right now and realize the extent of your capacity to hold yourself, to love yourself, and fundamentally to know that you're safe. Because for a little girl in that environment, one of the main prisons that you're going to be born into is that you're not safe. And I can't imagine, I can imagine how that showed up in relationships, where you conducted yourself.

the kind of boys you attracted when you're younger? I mean, like you know me, right? Yeah. Or are you deeper than most people right now? Yeah, you see me, right? Yeah. Yeah. I have spent like a few years gathering lost bits of myself from various corners of my life

and reintegrating them into my heart. Yeah. But I feel like I've just done a really good one today. Yeah. I was blaming a lot of other things around me for the way that I felt. Yeah. But it's just because I couldn't find it in myself. Yeah.

To support myself at that time. Yeah. When you said you couldn't find it in yourself to take care of yourself. Yeah. I was looking for external. That really helped because I didn't need external. I was there and I had my own back, you know. I couldn't feel it.

And beyond that, life's got your back. See, for a woman as a mother, oftentimes if you were to envisage love as a symbol, it's kind of like you embrace, right? you've done that how many times to love ones to kids. But what I'm pointing to is there's a set of arms that go around you too. Oh, right. Yes, okay. You're never alone. Okay, I see what you mean now. That's life. Yes. Life. For some people, it's God. It's Allah. It's Jesus. It's Buddha. It's Buddha. It doesn't matter what you call it.

Because of the universe. Life, the universe has got your back. And that little girl who felt so isolated, there's other components to it that I see that I'm not going to leave you hanging with. But that was the big one, right? Is it your job. just completely alone. And when you're alone, you have to feel hurt and scared. And then you'll compensate however you have to. It's a horrible place to be. That was my experience. When my dad died, I can remember standing inside of my bedroom literally alone. Not the mental, emotional experience that everybody listening has as a feeling of isolation because they're an ego in the eye. That is separation. So that, I think to go back to one of your questions earlier, why did I develop this? Because I felt how just horrific. and tragic it is to think that you're alone is I think it's the worst feeling.

And so for many kids like you who are brought up in an environment where there's hostility, abuse, alcoholism, the absence of love, that kid is so scared and so isolated, they don't know where to go, often walking around on eggshells. But for you, what I see is some other bedfellows to that is it was all up to you. Right, mum wasn't there. She was incapacitated. So why you've become so successful, why you become such a leader, a role, model for women is because part of your genuine nature is to be somebody who's dynamic and powerful. But much of it was built on this dysfunction, maladaptive, thinking that it's all up to you to make it. Because who else got... I'm really so grateful for that, though. That's what's so

funny about it. Exactly. It's a beauty, like for me too, right, I became fiercely independent because I had to be. Yeah. That could have become an obstacle in certain relationships when I was younger because I didn't really need anyone. That's also a barrier to companionship and love. It made me very powerful and nothing really fazed me. But what I hear in you is there's a subtle, if it's up to you, there's way too much pressure. It doesn't really allow for contribution, which is why I love moments where Michael puts his hand on your heart. He gives, he allows you to integrate those parts of you that perhaps are still dysfunctional.

But the last thing, because you gave me in a tell as you spoke about the tumor, where you preempted it. If you listened to this recording, you kind of gave a quick snapshot of your resume, right, with all the CDs and the DVDs and all the things you've done in this world of fitness. So just consider as an invitation. I'm not saying it's a truth. There's a part of you as a proud woman, as a smart woman, as a successful woman, there could be a little bit of shame there too or confusion. How can I, of all people, with the fitness and the thing that I've done to get a brainching? That's what I feel subtly.

It's not as big as what you just went through. You know what was interesting though? Interesting me, because I did do that whole thing when I got it. I said, I don't understand what have I done. Yeah. So I did that already. But what was really fascinating about it is that I got it in utero. Okay.

It was with me in my mother's womb. Yeah. And it's just grown very slowly over time. Okay. So I could part that. Yeah. But I did exactly that. Yeah.

It was quite funny that you should say that. Because I feel it's a remnant. It's residual. It's not as strong as the feeling of being alone as an illusion. But really the guilt and shame of, you know, either self-judgment. How could I? Or what did I do wrong? You know, the energy of fault, which a kid could take on with a parent that's not absent or is absent, not present.

Not present. The kid often will think, it's my fault. What have I done? which again exacerbates the loneliness but also the guilt and shame. The other thing that's interesting about us pinpointing loneliness, God, this is just so amazing. Is that Michael and I often talk about slightly feeling like islands. Yeah.

You know, we've got big families and everything, but we're a bit different. Yeah. And not in a bad way, we're not isolated by anybody, but we just feel a bit different. I'm a freak of nature, so you're taken to the choir. And so an island, I think, is another way of saying you're a bit lonely, you know. Yeah. But we've said that we've built a little archipelago. Yeah.

So we're two islands. We've come together and we've built a bridge. I love that. And we can still be on our own. Absolutely. But we're right next to each other. Yeah. And I've found, you know, you're talking about feeling safe.

Yeah. I've found safety in that feeling like that. Like I'm not, I don't have to merge with someone, but I can just be right next door. And I'm going to expand that beautiful image for you. There's another bridge that goes off both of your islands, which is part of the whole, which is life itself. Yes. Yeah. And that's true belonging, that you're not separate to life.

You can't not be in the gang of the universe. Yeah. And so no matter what it does is it doesn't put any. pressure then on your relationship as though, oh, he's my only safe haven, he's my only one that understands me, because that would then be a dysfunctional way to be coincided. Yeah, it's not us against the world. Yeah, which also can create superiority complexes and maybe energetically people might feel that they can't get close to you. Can't get close, yeah. Well, that's definitely not the case with us for sure. No, no, and I can see that. I mean, I would not want that to be. No, and that's

That's a really nice visual. Is that you can't not be part of the whole. Everything. Everything. And what it does is that image of the arms around you, you're both held. And whilst you create this beautiful little Oki ecosystem of your own love and your own joy and your own preferences for life and where you go and what you do, but that's part of the whole, just like every cell in our body has its own little function and its own little arena in a thigh cell

in an eye cell and a lung cell and a kidney cell. But collectively it creates this beautiful organism called a human being. And that's the universe of which we're all apart. And you play your role. But as long as you think you're separate, that's dysfunction. That is actually cancer. A cancerous cell has lost its connection to intelligence. Yes.

It's in a hostile environment. And so it's like, I got to take care of myself. And so what we just did there is bring to the surface one of the hostile conversations you were living in, which is you're alone. That's a very hostile space to live in. It makes sense that under that pressure, thinking it's up to you, that you would create some sort of physiological anomaly. But now you can see it's all BS. It's a lie. And in the absence of that concern, you get to be what we just witness, which is liberated, free, totally at peace, and completely a part of the whole.

Loud for the people in the back. Thank you, my dear. You're such a sweetheart. I had no idea that was going to happen, but that's what we spoke about earlier. Do you know what? It's quite funny. I've been thinking all day, like, I wonder if Peter, I often kind of see you talking to people about their childhood stuff. So I thought, oh, I'm sorted in that arena. My thing's more recent, like it's about my op. I can't stop crying and I don't know why.

And it went right back to my childhood. You kept trimming the weeds on the surface, And I was like, no, no, that route goes down quite away. Yeah, nothing to do with the tumor. The tumor was symbolic, symptomatic. Well, it's, it was a gift. Yeah, it was. To get me here.

Yeah. To reunite with a gang that you were never, not a part of it. Yes. Isn't that cool? That's fucking mind-blowing. Yeah. Peter. Yes.

Is there anything I can do for you? Getting a bit peckish. I'll get you some food. I'm good. Thank you, love. Love that.