Begin Again with Davina McCall - Prue Leith: Leaving Bake Off & Falling In Love At 70

Episode Date: February 26, 2026

A life of bold choices, second chances, and refusing to fear getting older. In this episode of Begin Again, Prue Leith opens up about leaving The Great British Bake Off, falling in love again at 70, and why she believes ageing can be the most liberating chapter of all. After nearly a decade in the tent, Prue shares why she chose to step away from a job she has loved. She reveals the remarkable story of meeting her second husband in her seventies, following a 13-year secret relationship that changed her life. From growing up in apartheid South Africa to fighting sexism in professional kitchens, adopting her daughter from Cambodia, and campaigning for assisted dying after personal loss, Prue reflects on love, risk, reinvention and resilience. With sharp wit and hard-won wisdom, she explains why she refuses to fear getting older, why colour matters more than ever, and why she never looks back. Prue’s gratitude for the “lucky” life she’s lived is remarkable,  and as she so often shows, it’s truly never too late to begin again. 🌟 Follow us for more inspiring stories of strength, transformation, and growth Follow Prue: https://www.instagram.com/prueleith/?hl=en Buy “Being Old”: https://www.waterstones.com/book/being-old-and-learning-to-love-it/prue-leith//9781804193747?sv1=affiliate&sv_campaign_id=626889&awc=3787_1771942462_b8fa8f4e75d9660ba0d74489de17f8a3&utm_source=626889&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=adstrong  Follow us here: 📸 www.instagram.com/beginagain 🎥 https://www.tiktok.com/@beginagainpod (00:00) Intro (01:53) Leaving Bake Off After 9 Years (04:48) Falling in Love in Her 70's (15:36) Her New Book 'Being Old' (18:52) Growing Up in Apartheid South Africa (23:09) Moving To Paris And Falling in Love With Food (27:29) Being A Woman in the Culinary World (30:36) Airbnb Ad (31:41) Her 13 Year Affair with Her Mother’s Best Friend’s Husband (41:41) Adopting Her Daughter and Motherhood (48:29) Feeling Lucky, Inspiring Women, and Why She Wrote the Book (51:21) Why She's Campaigning for Assisted Dying (58:02) Prue on Her Colourful Style and Being Seen (01:00:43) A Special Letter From Alison Hammond Sponsored by: Airbnb: Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.co.uk/Host  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I have left Bake Off and I will miss it definitely. For nine years, I suddenly realised that... Pruillet, at 19, you went to France to learn French. My dad was really good because he waited for us to decide what he wanted to do. And I did get on with the French, but I also fell in love with food. But what was it like... I remember the head chef laughed. It said, women are not meant to be in the kitchen.

They're meant to be at home in the kitchen. That's where they belong. And I didn't want a husband. I was busy building my business. So, your wonderful husband. John, was it an instant attraction? Not for me because... Oh my God, that's insane, isn't it?

And you've had two husbands. I know you'd known Rain, your first husband, since you were a young girl. He was the husband of my mother's mother's friend. I can't justify any of this. What absolutely undid it was. And then my father died. It was horrible death in the sense that he had,

like my brother bone cancer. My brother was sometimes screaming because he wanted to die so badly. So I've been camping. for a long time for a sister dying. Help a dying person die a bit more peacefully. You've lived an incredibly varied life. How do you want to be remembered?

Well, probably if the newspapers they have anything to do, it would be that I'm a great cake baker, which is totally false because I'm a great set of taste buds, but I couldn't make one of those fancy wedding cakes, so welcome to begin again, Prue. Am I right in saying that this is your first interview, since you've announced leaving Bake Off. No, no, I've done a few because I've been doing all sorts of other stuff.

I did a Vinanomi show last night. Oh, yes, the fashion show. Fashion show. I have done quite a lot of interviews since I left Bacon. Mainly about why have you left Bacon. Yes. I mean, so it's a strange thing because I love Bake Off and I knew I could have stayed there happily. I love the crowd and I love the bakers.

And I mean, what's not to like? It's a great job. You paid a lot of money. So, heaven, why would I not go on? But nine years, I suddenly realized that I'd never get a holiday in the northern hemisphere. All my holidays had to be taken in winter. And which is great, you know, you go off to South Africa or somewhere. But I just thought I want a European holiday.

I used to go to the south of France a lot and I used to go to Spain and Italy. It is funny with the long-running show when it's filmed at the same time every year, how mad it is that you just never... Yeah, that chunk of your life just disappears. And it's many weeks. Yeah, well, months in Berk-Berkoff.

We were filming Bake-off from April to the end of August. Wow! So, well, there were a lot of them. because there's great British Bakeoff, there's the American Bake Off, which I might still do if it's recommissioned. Wait a minute, wait a minute, Prue. How come America gets you and we don't? Oh, no, it's not that. Hang on a minute.

It's all done by the same company. It's all done by the same company. And it's a question of what can be got around so that I can have a holiday? Yes. And the great British Bakeff has to be filmed in the summer. Right. Anyway, so, yeah, I have left Bakeoff and I will miss it, definitely. And, you know, Faw has become a friend and the people you get really closest to, which you'll understand, the makeup crowd.

I'm married my hairdresser. Well, exactly. And I adore Bambi, who has made me up for years. In fact, long before Bakeoff. Wow. So she came with me to bakew. And so she, but she's still a friend and I do this Prue Leith-Costford kitchen. Yes.

She's a morning show on ITV on Saturdays. And that's done in my house and she comes to my house. So it's rather like this. It's very friendly because it's something nice about filming in your space, isn't it? Yes. And John's in it sometimes, isn't he? Yes, it is. John is, I'm not just in.

I'm not sure this was a wise decision because he's become so bloody popular. Hang on a minute. Don't come in and steal my thunder. I know. I would say, look, I'm supposed to be the telly star around here. What are you doing, Musting? But the fact is, I invited him in because I know he's funny and he'd be good. And also mainly because since we were filming in our own house,

I felt he'd get quite cheesed off. You know, if you film for three weeks, you get, you know, There's kit everywhere, lights and sound stuff and computers and just wires everywhere. You can't open your own fridge door to get a glass of milk. So I thought I'd better invite him in. And of course, he's become so popular and he got lots of fan mail and people tell him. And the other day we were in the co-op and doing the shopping. And I'm filling the trolley and he's going to do the paying, which is the right.

way around, don't you think? And he's, so he sticks out, his credit card. And the woman looks to him and said, you're that, you're that guy off the telly. You're John Playa Fair. You're from the Bruce Cotswow kitchen. She said, I love you. In fact, I'm in love with you. And she's blah, blah, blah, blah, right in her face.

Hello? Yes. No, exactly. Not a glance my way. Not a glance my way. So I thought, hmm, made a mistake there. Definitely. Sorry, I'm just wondering if you could quickly press subscribe.

I mean, it's free. I think it's funny because I also believe that people slightly fall in love with your relationship. I think there is something so wholesome but also inspirational about seeing two people just get on. Yeah, it is nice, isn't it? And there are so few people, if we're honest, in couples that really do. I'm really nice because he is good fun. We do get on well. And it's very interesting.

One of the moments when I thought really I could spend my life with the sky was we went to an exhibition, modern art. And he goes, if we go into a gallery or an exhibition, he walks all the way around very quickly and looks at everything. sort of scans everything, and then he goes back and looks at what he wants to. I started the first one, I read the information, and I'm very slow and methodical, and so I'm miles behind him. And at the end of it, he said, was there anything here you would take home? And I said, absolutely, I'd take home that backpagnating and that thing, and he said, snap. And we've been doing it ever since.

we've never not agreed with which was the best painting in it. Wow. Or maybe two paintings, but we always know what we hate. And, you know, often that sort of taste or art taste grows over years together. Yes. You know, I was 70 when I met John and he was 64. Very set in our ways. He did a life in fashion and designing clothes and things.

How did you meet? We met in a friend's house. And it was quite funny because the woman who I, a friend and I were taking, was sharing a cab to get back from Halifax to go to, for her to go to this party and for me to go home. And I said, let's drop me first because I'm on the way. And she said, no, I'm in such a hurry because I've got, it's such an important dinner party. and my sister and I are giving it and I'm, it's me and her giving it, so I have to be there and she was panicking and, you know, very jumpy about this dinner party.

And so I said, all right, so we dropped her, and she said, come in for a drink. And I went in. And this dinner party was a table for four with candles and champagne and beautiful lighting and all flowers. And, I mean, it was an obvious setup for four people. Right. these were two sisters who were giving the party. And John was one of the...

So he was being matchmade with one of the sisters. Yes, he was definitely to be... He was designed for one of them. And was either of either, I think. Was it an instant attraction? I am not for me. I was so, felt such a gooseberry that I just wanted to get out. You got that conversation when you know you shouldn't be there.

And so I wasn't concentrating at all and I didn't listen to anything he said. But apparently I told him that I was going to Canada, which I was on a book tour. And so the next day, this guy arrives on what I, I'm so unobservant that I thought he was driving a quad. You know, it was a big machine. Yes. I thought it was a sort of farmer's quad. Yeah. And he said, oh, I brought you a letter.

I thought you'd gone to Canada. So I said, I'm the guy from last night. the guy from last night. So wait, he saw you. He thought you'd gone to Canada. He wrote you a letter. Yeah. And came to your house to deliver it.

Yes. To say. Wow. Heen. Yeah. I think he and said, the letter said, I know you're in Canada, but I just wanted to tell you where I live and also suggest we have a walk with our dogs. Because he talked about our dogs when I come back.

So I said, well, let's go now. In fact, I met him because just as I walked out at the front door with my secretary, my PA, we walked out together, we were going to walk the dog around the field. So I said, well, we're going to walk the dog around the field, why don't you come to? Which I don't think was what he had blood. But when he said, let's walk the dog together, he wasn't quite meaning with someone else. And with my PA. Anyhow, the three of us walked around the field.

And Francisco, my PA, very quickly got them. the message that she was the good screen now. So she went out when we, he came in for a drink and she went off. And you know that thing when you fall in love and you just talk all night? Yes, yes. It's just so exciting. And he was chattering away. I realize now he was quite nervous because I know him well enough.

But he seemed to me totally confident. And he was just talking about history. I mean, I remember him walking up and down. I was sitting on the sofa and he was walking about. And he was talking to me about traveling and why. And he loved it. He does love it and so do I. And then we went out to dinner.

And then I went, then he said, would you come to my house and I'll cook you dinner? And I thought, oh, he could cook. Wow. When I got there, he cooked me Haggis. And you know, Haggis, nobody has to cook haggis. comes and ready made. Yes. It must be in the first ready meal

because nobody would want to actually cook haggis. So you just heat it up in the microwave. So it haggis and bash deeps because he's a scot. Right. And of course I love that and it was absolutely delicious. So he always said, well, it worked because she stayed for breakfast. And unfortunately it was the last thing he cooked for me. Oh.

Because the next time, also that first couple of weeks, we were talking about beef, what was the best beef and he, and he, I was so impressed because he bought some Dexter steaks and Dexter are a wonderful breed of, they're a bit like Aberde and Angus, but they're much smaller. Right. And they're very flavorful, but they're quite small. And anyhow, they had two fillet steaks, Dexter fillet steaks. I mean, nobody buys filet steaks.

fillet steaks anymore. They cost an arm and a leg. So I was really impressed that he had walked two fillet, but dexter steaks. And he put the frying pan on the heat, and he put a blob of butter in it, and it was just beginning to melt. And then he put the stakes in, and I just jumped it. I mean, there's only one rule about steaks. You get the hat. First of all, it's not a good idea to use butter straight away because it burns. You need to get a little a bit of oil and put it, get it so hot that the pan is absolutely smoking so that you get that lovely seared. Yes.

And the juice doesn't run on the stakes. And then you could put some butter it. Anyway, I was just so anxious. I mean, I wasn't thinking about him. I was just thinking about that the best steaks in the world and you're ruining them. But I pushed him out of the way and I... Sorted it. And I cooked the...

Sorted it. So I've been cooking up since. No! That was the last thing. You've made a rod for your own back? Yeah, but I don't care. Actually, I love cooking. And if you asked him what he lives on, he'd say leftovers.

I do remind him that, you know, the only reason there are leftovers because I must have done some prime cooking at some point. Leftovers from what? Yes, exactly. How long have you two been together now, 16? Yeah, 15 years? Something like that. I mean, you know what's really nice, Prue?

What? Is that when you talk about him, it's like you're talking about a new love. You look happy and excited. He's a lovely guy. And I'm very lucky. I mean, not many people have one happy marriage, never mind two. Yes. And I had a really, my first marriage was really happy.

To rain. Rain. He was a lot older than me. And so I always knew he'd died before me because he was 20 years older than me. But he was wonderful man and I'm so lucky to have had him for 25 years. And then I had eight years. I didn't like widowhood. That's not my life.

No. I thought I'd got to really like it because I'm quite chirpia anyway and so on. And I... You're not, are you? You know, you know I am. I know. Can I just tell you something? I'm just going to quickly blow smoke up your ass

is that honestly every single woman that I talk to I was going I'm interviewing for relief they'd all be like oh my god she makes like and I hope you don't mind me using the freight like getting older okay

like you are flying the flag I look at you and I go oh it's it's going to be okay absolutely I want to I just let me just read the dedication we've got a lot of grandchildren between us John and me. So it's to, for our grandchildren,

Hugo, Harry, Malachi, Scarlet, Gabriel, Grace, Roman, Max, Alexander, Teddy and Bertie. Yep. And the most importance is who need to know that getting old is not as gross

as they think? You know, children think that old people are so gross. Yes, but you are giving not just children, but everybody hope for the future. And this is, I mean, I may as well just reference this now

because this is what this book actually is all about. It's like, how do you do it? Being old and learning to love it. I didn't write it as a manual. I didn't write it to, I didn't set out to say, you know, this is the best way to get old or the only way to get old or something. But I just wrote about various aspects of age.

There are lots of rants in it, but my main thing is the joys of old age and the hilarity. You know, things like, you know, I suppose it's a bit, a lot of people will think that I shouldn't laugh at people who are senile. But my mum was senile for 20 years. And to be honest, senility is fine for the person who's crackers. They're away with the fairies. They're as happy as Larry. It's the carers who have the whole time. And I mean, we had hilarious moments with my mother.

For example, she was vegetarian. She'd been vegetarian all her life, a long time since I was a child. And when she turned 80, my brothers and I took her out to lunch, to a restaurant we'd often been to because it had a separate vegetarian menu. But I also had steak and stuff because my brothers are great carnivores. So I asked for the vegetarian menu, and I gave it to a vegetarian menu. and I gave it to my mum. And she looked at it and she said, this is all vegetarian.

So I said, yeah, mum, you're vegetarian. She said, oh, greenie, sandal, a lot. I have nothing to do with them. Terrible people, I don't want. She'd forgotten she was vegetarian. Completely forgotten. She was vegetarian. Just overnight she'd forgotten.

She'd be eating veg the day before. And so I said, you have been a vegetarian for 40 years. She said, absolute nonsense. Give me a steak. So she had a steak and enjoyed it. Wow, it's not so funny. It's hilarious. I'd like to talk a little bit about your upbringing

because actually your parents were marvellously sort of liberal in South Africa. At a time, apartheid was still happening in South Africa, but you grew up in a very... Well, could you just tell me a little bit about your upbringing. I grew up in a liberal English-speaking family. And so we were all taught. that apartheid was wrong. But we all went along with it.

I mean, it was the law. You couldn't not go along with it. Barry a long, marry a black man or go to, you know, invite. I mean, you couldn't even have, you couldn't have any physical contact, social contact or anything with black people. The only thing is you could employ them to dig your garden. And of course I had a wonderful nanny who is black. called Susan and she, and another one called Emma, and they were so loving and so fantastic.

And when I realized how appalling apartheid was, of course I'd always been told it was wrong. But what made me realize how wrong it was, that with one Christmas, I said to Emma, you know, what are you giving your children for Christmas or something? And she said, well, I won't see my children at Christmas because I'm here with you. And she was fine about it. And then I said to mum, when does she get to go home? So she said, well, she gets, I mean, basically, she got two weeks off a year and traveled a thousand miles to see her children. So she didn't see her children all year.

Her children were brought up by her mother. And that was the norm. People, because of the Poetate, especially once the Group Areas Act came into being, which meant that anybody of, they divided people by so-called tribal division. So if you were in Zulu, you had to go and live in Quazulu, which is Natal. And if you were, as she was, Corsa, had to go live in the Eastern Cape, which was a thousand miles away from where we lived. Wow.

were in Johannesburg. I mean, it was unbelievably wicked. But it took, and then when I went to university, I started to do. Where did you go to university? Cape Town. In Cape Town. And so I joined the sort of protest movements for anti-apartheid. And I remember being...

But that was amazing. Yes, well, it was. But, you know, we were all also having a good time. You know, you think it's all... That's what I mean. There's something like... There's, when you're coming together for a fight for something, it's a band of brothers.

Yes, it's a very powerful connection to have. Yes, it is. But there's also sort of social prestige and being with people who are the real protesters who are doing the real hard work and risking their lives. Lives, yeah. And anyhow, one day after a student parade where we'd had a sort of sub-faction of complaint going on. A lot of us were arrested.

And I was rather pleased for this. I thought it would do my street cred a lot of good if I could spend a night in the jail because then I'd be socially more acceptable in the protestant society. Yeah, like you'd go up a rung. I'd go out of a rung. But the policeman interviewed me,

honestly, he could tell him two seconds that I was just a hanger on that I hadn't know. Damn it. But you're not going to arrest me? So he did, yeah, so he didn't arrest me. So I got pushed out into the street again. And I, really, of course, if I had known what South African jails are like,

I'd probably would have been very grateful. Yeah. I mean, unbelievable. Unbelievable. But what I, what I'm, where did you get your, um, independent spirit from? because then at, was it 19, you went off to France to go and learn French. I mean, that's a long way from South Africa. Well, I think I was driven by what I was interested in,

and I had already had a go at trying to be. My mum was an actress, and I had a very good one, and she had a theatre company. Wow. It's very successful. So I thought, oh, well, I'll do what my mum does, because I love the theatre. But I turned out to be not really good at acting.

and also I didn't enjoy it much. So I talked to art school because I thought, well, then I'll be able to work in the theatre, which I loved because I can be set designer. Yeah. And then the head of the art school stood behind me, Cape Town University, and said, what are you doing in my art school?

And I said, I'm trying to learn to draw. He said, I would give it up now if I was you. He said, you have no talent. Which of course, you can't say to children now. No. I was quite grateful, really, because I'd have spent two years having a good time. And then I went and tried to do a philosophy and logic and French degree. And the only bit I really enjoyed was the French.

So then I said to my father, I think I should go to France where I could learn French from French people rather than from Afrikaans people. who didn't speak it very well. And, yeah, I was about 18, I suppose. But I was longing to get out of South Africa. You know, all my heroes were, you know, Europeans or Americans, mostly pop, you know, Elvis Presley and stuff like that. I was sure the bright lights were all in Rome or Paris or Athens or London,

but they certainly weren't in Johannesburg or Cape Town. I thought we were in the sticks. And he thought, and I think my parents would be good for me to go to France and I would learn French. And also, my dad was really good because although he was getting a little bit fed up with the fact that I kept leaving courses and not finishing anything, he was sort of waiting. And he was good with all of us like this. He waited for us to grow up and decide what we wanted to do rather than just expect children. to know on day one that they're going to be an architect or they're going to be a lawyer or how can kids possibly know?

They have no experience. So I went to Paris and, of course, while I was in France, I did get on with the French, but I also fell in love with food. I thought, you can't. Is that way you fell in love with food? You can't. You can't. You can't not, right?

No, you can't live in France for two years and not notice that they are obsessed. with food and the food. And it's really important to everybody. It doesn't matter if you're a factory worker or captain of industry. When I was a student in Paris, I was queuing up at the self, the cafeteria, self-service cafeteria. And they had these encounters with refrigerated starters, all on plates, little plates like that. And I walked along and I was behind a French guy.

And I saw that there was a plate of three radishes, which were those French breakfast ones, which have white ends. Yes. And the leaves are still on. Yeah. So there were pretty fresh, three fresh relishes. And there was a little screw of salt in a bit of paper and a blob of butter. I said to the boy in front of me, that's not food.

I thought it was sort of decoration you might use on something. So he said, it's delicious, just try it. And I said, no. And he said, buy one. So I got one and we sat together and he picked up my radish by the leaves, scraped it through the butter, dipped it in the salt and shoved it in my mouth. And I thought, God, that's delicious. And I thought that it really made me realize that food doesn't have to be complicated,

It doesn't even have to be cooked. Yes. It just has to be beautifully combined and very fresh. I wanted to ask you about, you know, the business side. Back in those days, it was at a time when women were having a moment. You know, we were having a moment of, hang on a minute, equal rights, let's go out to the workplace. It was a really exciting time to be a woman. But what was it like as a woman becoming a woman.

becoming an entrepreneur and a chef? Well, you know, I'm often asked this, but the truth is because I always work for myself, I never had to deal with what young women, still sometimes, but less, obviously less, have to deal with in kitchens, which is that a lot of our top chefs after the war were French or German chefs,

And all the language of a kitchen is very military. You know, you talk about a brigade. Yes, chef. Yeah, they're kind of, yeah. And you know, and what the boss says goes and all of that is really important in a kitchen. It has to be a hierarchy. Yeah. And there has to be instant obedience.

But there does not have to be bullying and awful things. And I had really no idea about how awful it was. because I'd never worked in a restaurant. And when I had a cookery school, and I wanted, by then I was getting to know lots of chefs and stuff, and I would ask them to give my students' work experience or to employ them when they were qualified. And at first they just laughed at so we don't have women in the kitchen, you know. I remember Trompetto, the head chef of the Savoy, saying he'd never ever have a woman in the kitchen. Wow.

I said, why? Why not? What if she was the best ship in the world? And he said, no, I would have a woman kitchen. She said, they won't stay because they'll get married and, you know, so there's no point in hiring them because they. And anyhow, they distract the men and then they wouldn't get good work out of him. But I said, honestly, that's nonsense. He said, well, anyhow, the main, or they can't pick up a stockpot, you know.

Nobody can pick up a full stock pot. You need two people to do. But he actually said, no, no, it's quite simple. Women are not meant to be in the kitchen. They're meant to be at home in the kitchen. That's where they belong. In France, he said the mushroom growers won't let women into the mushroom sheds because they prevent the spores germinating.

If they're having their period, they mustn't go in because they'll prevent spirits. So I said, it's nothing. So he said, he said, I won't have a woman in my kitchen because at a certain time of Zemans, she will curdle the mayonnaise. Oh my God, that's insane, isn't it? I mean, don't forget, I've lived a very long time,

so we're talking about 60 years ago. Yes, but it was difficult. It was difficult for women in children. actually believe women would curdle the mayonnaise when they had their periods. I mean, that's witchcraft. That is utter witchcraft. This episode is brought to you by Airbnb. I know it's only the second month of this year,

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That's how we're making banking more simple, more seamless, and more intuitive. But most importantly, that's how TD is making banking more human. What I was going to ask you now is about you meeting or, I mean, I know you'd known Rain, your first husband since you were a young girl. But obviously he was the husband of my mother's best friend. When did you realize that you, did he have feelings for you and make it clear for you or was it the other way around? Well, you know, we spent so much time together because he was, I was living in his,

I mean, this whole thing would sound so revolting to anybody with any sense and any moral backbone and all the rest of it. So I can't justify any of this because he was my mother's best friend and my mother's best friend was in loco parenta. She was my mother in England and the whole family had welcomed me in and her daughter was my best friend and we shared a bedroom together. So we were, and we had shared a bedroom when we were seven at one point when we lived in England.

Of course we came backwards and forwards from South Africa. And so the families were as close as anything, but my parents had known each other since they were very young. And so for me, he was like a godfather and a surrogate father and all the rest of it. And then my father died. He was 54 and I was 21. As young, isn't it? And I went and stayed with my mother back in South Africa until my dad died.

and then for about six months afterwards. So when I came back to England, I came back to live with the Kruger's again, Raines family, and then, and shared a bedroom with Angela again. And I don't know, my mother always said it was because I was missing my father so much that I was honing in on rain. And maybe there was something of that, because he always was my mental, mentor and it was the chairman of my company and he helped me with all the business side, which I didn't know.

And he taught me an awful lot about business. So there was all that. So that was already happening. You were working together. Yes. So I absolutely adored him. And respected him. We played tennis together and Nan didn't play tennis and I did.

And she was at the theatre most evenings and I wasn't. And so I don't know how it happened, really. I don't know at what point he must have thought, oh, my God, this is not good. I'm falling in love with her or whatever. Was it mutual? Like you both felt, yeah, you were carrying towards each other. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I do remember we were listening to some music and he just came over and kissed me.

And, you know, I was 21 then. Anyway, so for 13 years, because frankly, I loved that family and his wife and all of them. And I didn't want to hurt him or anybody. And I didn't want a husband. I was busy, busy building my business. I wanted to. And it worked fine. I mean, we just didn't tell anybody.

And if I was ever seen out with him, you know, having lunch or anything, it wouldn't have been surprising because we were friends anyway. And working together. He was my chairman. I need help design my first house and my first kitchen and first little restaurant. And he was my landlord when I opened my restaurant. So there was lots of reason to be together anyway. So what absolutely undid it has always happens in these stories.

We had 13 years together in secret and I think we could have gone on forever. I had built up, I mean a lot of people thought I was gay because I just didn't ever have a boyfriend or frigid or something while. And I didn't mind. I thought, well, whatever they think is fine. And it was back in the time when women just didn't even. generally got married at 22, 23, wasn't it? And there was like 35, 35, 34, something, 34, not married.

But when I turned 34, I suddenly, this hit me like a roller coaster. I thought, I want a baby. I wanted a baby. So I said to it, Ren, look, I really want a baby, but let's just have a baby. And I will just never tell anybody whose it is. it'll be a baby out of wedlock and never mind but there were a few women now who were single women with children

and we'll have a baby but we'll keep the baby secret and he said that's not fair on the baby he said he she needs to know who her father is and so so he said I think this is the moment we tell nan and so he did and so it was really horribly difficult at first because of course she was

She devastated. Of course she was disgusting. She felt betrayed and all the rest of it. And she was an amazing woman, you know. Was she? Finally, she said, she made me come and see her. Let's have lunch together and talk about this. This can be the worst, worst date of my life with lunch with.

But I went to see her and she said, she was amazing. She was amazing. She said, you know, when I met Rayne, she met Rain, she was 20 years older than him. So he had married a woman 20 years younger than him, older than him, and then he married a woman 20 years younger. You always used to say the third time, I'll get it right. But anyway, he never got a chance at a third time. But so she said to me, when I first met Rain,

I, she was working, she and my house, she and Rain were both working for my mother's theatre company because she and Nan was an actress too and Rain was playing Henry Higgins and she was playing Eliza. Well she was 20 years older than playing some. My Fair Lady. Yeah. Her lady was also crazy because Henry Higgins should have been, you know, the age should have been reversed.

Other way around, yeah. It was wartime. So, you know, you had to make do. You had to make good. So they fell in love when they were. And he was 24. And she had three little children. And she had just lost her husband who was killed in the war.

And so she had, he, he, 24-year-old, fell in love with a beautiful actress, quite a bit older than him, with three tiny children. Wow. And he just fell in love with the whole package. And so they married. And my mother tried to talk her out of it. She said, you know, Nan, it can't last. He, you know, when you are 70, he will still be a young man and you will be, you know, he'll leave you.

He will. Men don't stay with women 20 years younger than. And she said, Peggy, I don't care if I only have five years with him. it would be worth it. Wow. And so she repeated the story to me, she said, I know what you, I know what it feels like. And anyhow, she became very good friends again. She used to come stay with us in the country and my children, when they were little, were

very confused. They, because I bet, because they grew up. Yes, they grew up with my mother. Yeah. And then, but they, it was all fine. And I remember one of my kids. Kids, I can't now remember one which she said, because I've, I always wore two wedding rings because I had, I had a curtain ring. When I married Ray and I didn't have any ring.

But I was very pregnant when I married him. So I married him two days before Danny was born. Wow! And so, so I, I, we just went in to the jewel and bought a second hand ring. And then it got, it was much too tight because I think when you're, funnily enough, when you're pregnant, your fingers get thin. So then I couldn't wear it. And so at any end, we had to get a change.

But meanwhile, I put a curtain ring on to fill it. So I had two rings. And so, and I remember one of my children saying, it was one of the rings Nance. If you marry somebody, do you get the ring? No, you don't. Quite good question, though, isn't it? A good, logical thought. You get the husband and the ring.

But he was a big love. He was. He was. He was amazing, man. I'd love to talk a little bit about you and Rayne, and you had decided that you wanted to have children, but at the same time you both decided to adopt. Yeah, yes, we did.

Rain didn't want any more children because he brought up three of nans. and he felt he'd done children. But he did see that I wanted the kids. It was obvious that I was going to have a baby. And so we decided we'd have one for me. And we both thought we shouldn't have an only child. So we thought we'd have two. And we'd adopt the other.

And he had written a book about Thailand and a history of China. So he was very familiar with the Far East. And he knew there were millions of Far Eastern children who needed adopting. And at the time, there really were lots and lots. And Leda was one of the refugees from the Khmer Rouge killing fields. Wow. Genocide.

And she was only a few months old when she was, or a few weeks old when she was flown out. By the time we got her, she was 16 months old because she had a rather checkered Western life because people keep wanting to adopt her and things would go wrong. They couldn't and so. But you know the interesting thing is she is such a balanced and happy girl woman. She's 52 now. Can you believe that? She's 52.

But I think it's because what, this is a very home philosophy, but I really think it's true. People worry so much about attachment and so on. Yes, attachment's tremendously important, but little things babies want to attach. The only thing that will prevent them putting their arms around anyone or stretching out to anyone is if they've been frightened or hurt. And if they've never been anything but loved and all the various people who wanted to have leader, her own mother, the foster carer who looked after her was very good, the woman who then wanted to adopt her, would have adopted her, but she died of little pneumonia.

And the fifth woman who wanted to have her was a French woman whose marriage fell apart and she had a little child at the same age. And her husband was blaming her for bringing a new baby into a rocky marriage. And he was claiming custody of the children on the grounds that she was irresponsible because she was imported a new baby into a marriage which was rocky. And it looked like he would win his case. So she needed to get rid of Lida quickly. But she loved her. I mean, all the time, my point is that Lida was never loved.

She was loved. She was loved. She was loved. And then we picked her up and we had all. And were you warned because obviously, you know, services, they don't want Lida to go to another family that's not going to be

able to cope or have to change circumstances if she's been through so much already. Did they... No, because Lida had not done any of this in England. The first time she came to England was when she was going to be adopted by the woman who died. And I don't know how

they got through. It was a private adoption, so it would have been right. She was in Paris staying with this other woman who was friends of his first wife who died. Right. The wife who died. When we heard about her and she wanted to get rid of her because there was danger of losing her own children.

Not. But I do think social service, there is a massive job to be done on the adoption system in England. It is absolutely horrific. I mean, crazy. Leda, my daughter, has herself adopted two children. Has she? She's a good testament to the fact that she can't have thought of it. Yes, that's so lovely.

Isn't that the ultimate compliment? Yeah, it is. It's the ultimate validation of adoption works or can work. And so you had two children quite close together, but they got on well because your point was you didn't want to have one child alone Yes, yes Yes so Lida actually is a few months older than Daniel

So she arrived when she was 16 months And he was just a year Wow So they were very like twins And it was very funny because I used to dress them with the same baby grows Or you know, whatever And

They're the same shorts and t-shirts and we just had one box of clothes and anything went on. And then, but my mother had given Lida some very pretty little white, grippier lace dresses. Very sweet, you look. One day I dressed her up in this and Danny was absolutely furious because why couldn't he have a dress? And I thought, well, why can't he? He wants a dress. So I put one of them on him and one of them.

But I tucked his into his. into his romper in the knickers and put his shorts on love it and off we went to the park walking with my friend

and then he wet his pants and so I had to take his nappy off in the middle of the Ravens Court pal and I popped this frilly dress I remember my friend said what are you doing to them

I mean God that boy I mean you'll grow up I'm so confused. Do you know what? I think that most boys that have grown up with sisters have done that at some point. My son spent his whole life in the dress-up box and he had two big sisters. So it was all princess outfits from, you know, God knows what. And I think like everybody does that.

That's so interesting. It's always about what your friends admire. Honestly, these kind of little moments of your kids' lives are just so... You've lived an incredibly varied life. You know, you've done... You've had two husbands and you loved both of them. It wasn't like you fell out of love in a divorce or anything like that. And you've experienced great love twice in your life, which is extraordinary.

And then... Lucky. I mean, how many people get... No, not many. Not many. have one, you know, it's really something else. And two children who've brought you such joy and then such an incredible career. And I was... I often think, De We know, it's, I just do think that I deserve the sort of Damocles to knock me on. I mean, I should... It's not fair that

I've had so much luck. I mean, it's... Can I say something though, Prue? I don't believe you've had luck. You've been brave. You've taken risks. That's not luck. That's bravery. It's luck that I've got. I don't think that you're, I think your spirit and your nature you're born with. And obviously encouraged by encouraging parents, I think encouraging parents.

That's a lot as well. Very important. I mean, parents who keep putting you down and telling you to know your place and not do anything. They're almost as dangerous as parents who tell their children that they are nothing. Perfect. Yeah. All the time. I mean, I'm sure you know this and lots of women tell you, tell you,

but you're very inspiring because you are living your best life and we can all see it. Well, you know, poor things. It's thrust upon them because I've never. But thank God, we need you. You know, we need you to. Well, I mean, as I keep saying, I enjoy the attention. So I'm, and of course I'm glad to be out there because it might sell a few more. But the truth is that I wrote this book for the, not, I just, you know if you're a writer,

and you know this, you can't not be writing something. I mean, I often say, well, that's the last thing I'll ever write. And the next second I'm writing a little article for the Odie or the Spectator or something because something about. And on Bake-off, you'd be writing all the time, right? And all the time that I was sitting in the Winnebago I would be writing. Because I think writers cannot write. It's kind of itch.

It's a disease. Writing is a disease. And I think I'll do writing until I drop. So I needed something to write. I hadn't got anything in the pipeline. And I just thought, well, where am I? And I didn't want to write another sort of memoir, which it is in a way, but I didn't want to be confined to it being a memoir or an account of something.

I thought, I'll just write about anything I like as if they were essays for pieces of journalism for a magazine. Having heard your story, your passion for assisted dying is understandable. I think as we all get older, we all have a deeper understanding of it because we have a lot more friends who are going through awful situations. Yes, and you think, God, is this? Is this the best way to do it? Yes. But I know that your son has a different view and you did a documentary with him, didn't you, on Channel 4?

And that slightly his opinion kind of slightly changed. He did understand your point of view a little bit more, didn't he really? Yes, I think we both shifted a bit. I mean, I think it was very, I think it was good of him to have come to do that program because, you know, the overwhelming majority of the public want to have a sister dying. And so he, you know, he had a higher mountain to climb if he was trying to convert people than I did. But I think he understood his attitude now, which he was much, I think he was much more dogmatic before, But his attitude now is that he's no objection to doctors, you know, the so-called Liverpool Pathway, they call the Liverpool Pathway, but it's basically when doctor gives you a lot of morphine.

Oh, my sister had this, a syringe driver, a machine that keeps you sedated. She can take much more than she likes, which means she's not likely to kill herself because she would fall asleep. before she squeezes the bulb again. But she can manage her pain, which my brother couldn't. He was just crying and weeping and sometimes screaming and begging to be killed because he wanted to die so badly. He had bone cancer. And he was in an NHS hospital and the doctors never came around except when they'd just

been given their morphine and they were all... Right, and they were all kind of calm. Yeah. Doctor, I'm fine. So that's what got me on it. But Daniel's attitude now is that if a compassionate doctor is giving morphine in order to steal the pain, and it happens to kill them or they die, that's not too bad because at least he's not opposed to that, to that because he said, you know, they're under the care of a good professional.

The intention is not to kill them. It is to relieve pain. That's fine. But, of course, a lot of people, 50 years ago, that's how they went. My father had a perfectly, it was horrible death in the sense that he had, like my brother, bone cancer. and he had to wait till it got into his lungs to kill him. And nobody would deliberately kill him, but he just had increasing doses of morphine

and then in the end he fell asleep. And my younger brother as well, he died like that too. So at the moment, why we need a sister dying is because in the end, it's so horrible for the carers that they are relieved when somebody dies. My sister-in-law, my brother's wife, for a month, she couldn't stop thinking about the fact that she feeling really guilty that she had sat by her husband's bed with him, you know, unable to breathe, dying of pneumonia. By then he had pneumonia. Flemm everywhere.

And she was just saying, David, please, just die. Just die. Just die. That's a terrible thing to happen. Anyway, to have men on a jolly note. Okay, and let's end on a jolly note. I can tell you a quick story. Yes.

I was cooking a woman's dinner when I was in my cook-for-hire stage quite young. And there was a hatch between me and the kitchen. and I could hear the guests talking and I heard this guy saying this dinner is delicious can I have the number of the cook because I want her to cook my director's lunches. And she said, oh no, no, she said, I'm the cook. She said, I wouldn't dream of having a cook. I cook everything myself. And she said, she's just there to do the washing up.

So I wanted to open the doors, you know, open the hatch. And I thought, that's not really clever. But I remembered that I had a whole lot of newly printed little cards, and I had hung up all their coats. So I put a card into every pocket I could find in the Coke room. And I wrote on the top of them, your dinner was cooked by. And it worked because the next day that guy rang me up. And he hired me. Yes.

And for his directors to unches. And then he said to me, you know, I did love your food. You know, you're a very good cook. He said, but I was much more impressed with your market. skills. Right. And that's the point. So many artists think all the great thing is to be able to do fantastic painting.

But they've got to get a gallery. They've got to get a agent. They've got to sell it. They've got to go out and sell it. Even if they've been selling it on the railings of Hyde Park. Yes. So they, so, you know, you've got to hustle. Yes.

And I think you have, I mean, I've been very lucky with a positive attitude. If things have gone wrong, my attitude is always either. Damn it all, that was a good idea. It's worth another crack, but I'll have to do it slightly differently. Or, well, that didn't work. Move on to something else. I mean, I don't spend hours looking backwards. No, always moving forwards.

I love that. Always forwards. That's another brilliant life lesson, I think. Don't look backwards. Just walk towards a new goal. But I wanted to know about your clothing because I feel like in midlife, when we hit menopause, I can't tell you, having been an extreme show off my entire life, I hit menopause and I felt invisible. I literally felt like no one could see me anymore. I'd gone just.

I didn't. But I disappeared. I felt like I'd just disappeared. And so many women say that. And it's so crazy. And they say things like, you know, I used to wear red. I loved you red. but I mean, you know, I've turned 50 or 60 or something, and I wouldn't dream of it.

Actually, older women need color more than girls. Young girls are so bloody beautiful anyway. They don't need to put any makeup on. They don't need to try. They're just delicious. They're lovely. So, you know, we need a bit of help. And I think, I was in Paddington Station the other day,

and there must have been 300 people on the concourse, black clothes, everyone, had a black. It was a lousy day, but everybody was in black, everyone. And then a woman walked in, a single woman, and she had a bright green coat on. And, you know, suddenly it looked like a picture, you know, like constable, always has a bit of red in the corner or something. It just suddenly looked better for that little. And, you know, okay, black is a great color. It makes you look slim and elegant and all this. How about a big red rose on your shoulder or great, great color? coloured scarf. Black shows up things. I mean, I've got to say you just made me smile.

And also, what was really funny, when I came to greet you outside, you were miles away. And I was like, there's Prue. I mean, I could see you. It was so brilliant. I was like, there she is. It's definitely her. I can run towards her like a maniac.

Well, you were wearing a most wonderful picture. Yes, well, I wore that for you. Right. But you took it up. I bought it for you. Yes. Well, I just thought it looked like I was trying. trying to leave or something. I didn't want to kind of look like I was done. And Prue, can I just say a

huge thank you for coming to talk to me today? You are our pin-up. I used to have posters of Starsky in my bedroom, but now it's you. Thank you for being so inspiring. Honestly. To be an hour I'd have come miles to do this. Well, we're so grateful. But I'll tell you what, this has got to be, this is the price, there's a price. Yes. You have to come and cook for me on the Cotsworth. I'd love to.

Really? Yeah. Gosh, are you going to. Yeah. Brace yourself. Oh, I love it. I'm terrible. Prue, I've also got a little thing that I wanted to read for you.

We've got a quick letter as a sign-off. We got a little letter for you from Alison Hammond. Oh, I adore Hannah. I adore Alison as well. It's quite funny because we're connected. worked with her and she was on Big Brother and I was the presenter. So, my darling Prue, I've been sitting here trying to find the right words and for once in my life I'm nearly speechless, which you know is rare. From the moment I joined Bake Off, you welcomed me with open arms, not just politely, not just

professionally, but properly, warmly, generously. You made me feel like I belonged there like I'd always been part of the tent. That kind of welcome stays with a person. What touched me most was how genuinely interested you were in me. You didn't just ask me surface questions. You read my book, you asked about my life, you spoke about my mum in a way that meant so much to me. I know in my heart you and my mum would have absolutely adored each other. The thoughts of you two together chatting away makes me smile more than you'll ever know. And coming to your home, what a special memory that is. You letting me through your earrings, letting me go through

your earrings and jewels like a child discovering treasure. It wasn't about the sparkle, although we both love a bit of sparkle, it was about your generosity, your openness and the way you made me feel completely at ease. That's a gift. I have to say too, watching you with your wonderful

husband has been such a lesson for me. The way he looks at you, the way he lives for you, supports you, adores you, The two of you together have shown me what love should look like. Respectful, joyful, solid. You've quietly set a standard and I've taken notes. Professionally, you're simply extraordinary. On Bake Off, you carry yourself with such grace and authority. You're sharp, witty, impeccably prepared and utterly fair. You bring warmth without ever losing

your standards. It's a master class every time. I've learnt so much just by watching you work. Although I've only known you a few years, you've enriched my life in ways you may never fully realise. You've inspired me, supported me and reminded me that elegance and kindness go hand in hand. This is an amazing letter. I feel incredibly lucky to call you not just a colleague, but a friend. Thank you for welcoming me. Thank you for seeing me. And thank you for being so beautifully unapologetically you.

With all my love, Alison. Isn't that absolutely wonderful? I think you should get that framed actually. Pru? Put it in your kitchen. It's so flattering as you. It's almost too flattering to be able. All right, you can put it in a loo.

It's always very nice things about you. Just put it in the loo. But you know, she's a wonderful woman, Alison. Well, she thinks the same of you.