Begin Again with Davina McCall - Ruby Wax on Interviewing The World's Most Dangerous Men & Grieving Alan Rickman

Episode Date: April 2, 2026

What if the place you’re meant to feel safest… never was? In this episode of Begin Again, Ruby Wax opens up about a life shaped by chaos, fear, and an unrelenting search for safety. Growing up in a home filled with instability and emotional unpredictability, Ruby shares how those early experiences have stayed with her, long after she left. She reflects on the strange reality that, even now, she often feels safest in the most dangerous situations and why home has never been the place that gives her comfort. From childhood trauma to a lifelong battle with depression, Ruby speaks candidly about what it really feels like to live inside a mind that can turn against you. She also revisits some of the most defining moments of her career, interviewing figures like Bill Cosby and Donald Trump, navigating the power dynamics and darkness she encountered along the way. These weren’t just interviews, they were experiences that shaped how she sees people, the world, and herself. At the heart of this conversation is Ruby’s journey toward understanding her mind. From studying neuroscience to exploring mindfulness and meditation, she shares how she’s learned to manage the noise, the fear, and the patterns that once controlled her. This is a story about survival, self-awareness, and what it takes to rebuild a sense of safety from the inside out. 🌟Follow Begin Again for more powerful conversations about resilience, growth, and starting over. Follow us here: 📸 www.instagram.com/beginagain 🎥 https://www.tiktok.com/@beginagainpod Ruby’s Tour “Absolutely Famous” https://www.rubywax.net/livetour ✨Sign up for the Begin Again newsletter for all your behind the scenes access, recommendations and much much more at: https://linkly.link/2g2xm (00:00) Intro (01:24) Ruby On Her Upcoming Tour “Absolutely Famous” (04:16) Why She Is Unable To Lie (05:13) Interviewing Bill Cosby And Donald Trump (07:54) Her Parents And Challenging Upbringing (10:33) Discovering The Truth About Her Family History And Generational Trauma (16:33) Safety And Insanity (18:43) Finding Safety In Dangerous Situations (20:13) Feeling Like An Outsider Growing Up (21:33) Ruby’s Experience Of Menopause (26:21) Airbnb Ad (27:28) Paramount+ Ad (28:44) Her Depression And Learning To Manage It (34:49) Ruby Reflects On Her Relationship With Husband Ed (37:40) Getting “Kicked Out Of TV” And Finding A New Purpose (39:20) Ruby’s Menopause (40:17) Friendship With Alan Rickman And Carrie Fisher (46:20) Becoming Ruby Wax And Asking Her Husband To Marry Her (49:11) I’m A Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here, Friendship With Angry Ginge (50:43) Discovering The Power Of Mindfulness (57:18) Relationship With Gelong Thubten And A Month-Long Silent Retreat (01:01:15) Being With Alan Rickman When He Died (01:05:20) A Letter From Alan Rickman’s Niece Airbnb - Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.co.uk/Host Paramount+ - Episodes 1-3 of The Madison are available to stream on Paramount+ now: https://www.paramountplus.com/gb/shows/the-madison/ Episodes 4-6 will be available to stream on 21 March. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Bill Cosby tried to choke me to death. 20 years later, he's a criminal. I could have told you on day one. I feel safe on a stage. Give me a group of people and their eyes are shining, but homes are really unsafe. I thought your dad beats up your mom. That's their idea of hi-hot.

Welcome home. The only reason I married my husband was because he doesn't have mental illness. I didn't really like him that much. He's quite a nice guy, though. Yeah, and he had length. Yes, Ruby! I don't really know if I wanted to know that about Ed. I'll never be able to talk.

He's tall. Oh, he's tall. Sorry, I thought you were talking about his penis. How did you feel interviewing all these people? I thought Donald Trump was hilarious. I mean, you laughed at him going, I'm going to be president one day. Like, I'm going to be vice president. And then Kerry Fisher was my best friend.

I would love to delve into you and Alan Rickman. Oh, yeah. Greatest pairing ever. How did that happen? I didn't know that. I was kicked out of TV and they said, oh, your shows don't sell anymore. Yeah, bullshit. Do you mind me asking you?

about your depression. No, do you mind me answering it? You try to pretend you are still who you are if somebody comes over and visits, but they can't tell you're imitating who you are. And then they leave the room and you're gone. I was trying to find meaning, but I ended up in a mental ward.

But then suddenly the sun is out. And you go, okay, I'm normal again. Have you done everything that you wanted to try before you died? I mean... I would like to start, actually, about your tour coming up. Okay. Because absolutely famous. starts at the end of March, I think, 25th.

Thank you, yeah. And what are we going to be seeing at this tour? Well, since nobody ever played my videos, my films that I did in the BBC about 30 years ago, I thought I'll just take them and tour them. So you get to see, you know, Donald Trump, the offcuts, where is he now? I mean, you laugh. at him going, I'm going to be president one day. I thought he was hilarious.

Like, I'm going to be vice president. I thought we were going to share a laugh. And he said, I want you out of here. And that's at a height of 33,000 feet. So he was an asshole. So you can actually show clips of some of those interviews that you did with. Yeah. And stuff that we didn't show.

Oh, really? And what really happened? And who got paid what? And what the deal was? Because it was a moment where this is a lot. long story, but somebody had a heart attack on a flight. We were going to interview Tammy Faye Baker. And months later, I found out, and they gave him defibrillation, because I was calling it defibulation, which is like something to do with female genitalia.

Defibulation has to do. Yes, look it up. And I've been saying it. Somebody look it up. It has to do with pulling apart your labia. And that's what I was saying. I have no, like I always think scatological means a scathing. I'm going to give you defibrillation. Yeah. Pulling them apart. You know, if they're sticking together. Because we all have that problem. Sticky veg.

And also I use scatological all the time because I think it means scatty. It's bowel movements. So sometimes my language doesn't help. But anyway, it's defibulation. I can't say that. It's defibrillation. Yeah. So they were in the same.

thing, and we were filming because you could go in the pilot's thing. So I told it, we found out the guy didn't have a heart attack. He was drunk. He was an old colonel who obviously thought it was okay to drink at 8 in the morning because his pills said, don't drink at all. He had an ulcer. But we found out that he was just drunk. So I said that to Richard Branson when I met him three months later, and he said, never say that again because they landed the plane and it cost millions. And then we flew free from then on, on Virgin, upper class, everybody, because he wanted me to keep my mouth shut. But not anymore. No, well, now I'm not. Come and get me, Richard. Come and get me, Donald. I was just wondering, would it be all right if you just subscribed? Thanks. I've got to say

that this is one of, we were all discussing you earlier. We had a big powwow. And you and Peter? Well, us and not all the girls here. But how much. We love you, but it's because you are fearlessly honest. I don't know that. I just know I can't bullshit. Yes. Because it shows on my face. I mean, if I didn't like you, I'd still be nice to, but you'd see the eyes were dead.

You'd see dead eyes. That's why I can't do a talk show. You know, all the people I interviewed when I didn't like him, it was a disaster, like Madonna. It was a disaster, but it's still good television. Yes. You got away with it, but I didn't feel very good. I felt kind of toxic because I don't like fawning. Yes.

You know where you have to be nice? Yes. And everything in your body says this isn't working. Well, you don't adapt yourself. You are you. I guess I am. And they get you. Because you're good at reading people.

Yeah, but if they don't like me, I've got no cards to play. No, because you won't fake. I could try it. I tried to be nice to Bill Cosby, but he still tried to choke me to death. That note, honestly, that actually frightened me. Yeah, well, I could have told... Can you just describe what happened to you that when you first met him? Because the greeting was so uncomfortable.

Yeah. You who, 20 years later, he's a criminal. I could have told you on day one. So he sees me. He's got death on his face and he puts his arm around my neck and drags me by my throat. Like literally, like... Across the room. Like that.

And then made me kneel at his feet for the whole interview, calling him Dr. Cosby and then kept making fake phone calls saying, I want her out of here. You know, it was a power play. I think the Bill Cosby one was so dark because in retrospect, we can, we now know who he is, but you didn't then. Yeah. I mean, what was even sadder, I think, for you was that Bill Cosby was still the sweet, loving kind. I mean, you yourself said he was so hot. Yeah, well, he'd done that I spy and then he did this family show, what was it called, the Huxstab, Ox to Bees? It wasn't the Cosby Show.

It was something like the Cosby Show, but he was, you know, he was the image of the great American father and they had something like 100 million viewers. I mean, unbelievable, right? Everybody loved him, but he was a killer. You know, we just didn't have the real hip, along with us for the interview. Everything you said to him or the way you spoke to him, like he just didn't get it. Well, he didn't smell a victim. Yeah.

I think he smells somebody who he can knock out. Yeah. And same with Trump. I wasn't an ovulating female that was hot for him. And they don't know what to do with women like me. Like at one point, I became quite butch with Trump in a scene you don't see. And he told me what he likes to do to women and how much he likes threesomes, didn't have the sound on. And I said, yeah, I like to.

Can you say fuck? Yeah. Okay. Well, I like what I like to do with women. So he felt safe because I could crude him out. And then he liked me. God. Yeah, I butched him out.

It's so mad, isn't it? Yeah. Once he knew my place, oh, she doesn't come on with me because she's into women. Yeah. Oh, I get it now. And you interviewed Melania? Yeah. She was so into Trump.

She thought he was the sexiest thing and sort of said what she likes about him, how good and Betty is. She was this innocent little, and we show her in the video. They were married then. weren't they? No. Oh, they weren't yet? They were just going out. She was just a piece of fluff. Wow. But she was adorable, innocent. And he turned her into whatever she is now. Wow. How did you feel interviewing all these people? Because some of them would have been quite a frightening interview. Were you always confident? I always wanted to interview those people. And I had Arafat lined up and Gaddafi and the BBC said, no, you're a comedian. You know, that would have been my idea of a career.

So then I thought I'm out of here. But they were more interesting because I never was interested in fame. It really bores me. It does like I like neuroscientists. If I'm so turned on, I will straddle them in a dinner table. You could grab in me straddle them or a surgeon. I love that. I was interested because you had an affliction that I had as well,

that you grew up thinking you weren't smart. Oh, yeah. Because your dad had told you basically that you weren't. Yeah, that I was a sad sack. I still believe it. I still think I'm getting away with it. Ruby. No, no, I really do. No, Ruby. Okay. Well, you might convince me in this moment, but then I'll go home and go, V-V-V-V-hoo. Why do you think that is? I think if you're told you're stupid and you get straight ease, it's a big clue. Something's not right in the state of Denmark. So, um, I would. I wasn't smart as a kid because I was so distracted because there was so much, you know, mayhem in paradise or not paradise.

It's too much mayhem, so I couldn't focus on reading because it was just, you know, screaming, which just screaming. So it's hard to focus. So I couldn't read. And when you talk about the screaming, you're talking about your home life. Yeah. So growing up with your parents was traumatic from the get-go, wasn't it? You were an only child.

Yeah, they were, I don't know what they were screaming about, but the voices were in hysteria mode. And they never come. I mean, they didn't have a normal voice. And so there was just shouting all the time. And I have nightmares about it too. I still keep thinking they're alive. And then I really panic. But they're not alive.

But their voices were like this. You know, I've stopped talking about it now because I think when people repeat and repeat, you kind of become, I started off my career using everything they ever said, which was like Alan Rickman said, use your parents. Yes. And so I got kind of well known because their dialogue was so brilliant. And now it sounds like, and then it's their fault. Yes. And you don't want to do that.

I don't want to do it anymore. You know, it's gotten itself by date. But you have a scar and the scar gets fainter and fainter. Yes. But it still lives. Yeah. I thought it was interesting that you did, who do you think you are? I did that as well.

Oh, which you find out. Just an amazing experience. Well, I found out that my great-grandfather was a witness for Alfred Dreyfus at the Dreyfus trial. Really? Yes. That's amazing. French policeman. He was the chief of French police, and I went to the Jewish Museum with the statue of Alfred Dreyfus in the courtyard,

and Alfred Dreyfus's great-granddaughter walks around in tears going your great-grandfather. Oh, my God. Anyway. But that was great to know. Yeah, I mean, like, amazing. But I just wanted to ask you about your who do you think you are. Did it help you understand your parents better? I didn't know I came from Austria, except their voices were a big clue.

And why would you talk like this? I thought you might be from a foreign country or another planet. So they never mentioned any relatives. I said, how come I don't have any relatives? I thought I dropped from another planet. And then they said, I don't know relatives. There were a couple Americans that got them out of Austria, which they weren't speaking to because they claimed my mother's foot coat wasn't fake,

was not real fur. You know what I mean? It's argument, the fur argument went on for 20 years. Of course this is real fur. Bertha, it's not real fur, it's fake. It's fuchs! Anyway, these people who got her out of Austria wouldn't speak to them because they claimed her coat was fake.

So I didn't know about any relatives. So they take me to Austria and then they show me my dad's prison. And he told me he was an aerobics teacher. Yes. Yeah. Meanwhile, he was the one who told everybody to jump, you know, to keep the noise up. In the prison camp. They could sneak things in and out.

Yeah, he did. And then the Nazis would come in and they'd say, jump like rabbits, you know, and humiliate them. But one of them really liked my dad. So when they were digging ditches, he stood in front of him so my dad could stretch his back. And then he sent covert notes between my dad and my mother. They were starting a business. And he got caught and he was shot. Shit.

And I have some of the postcards. They're speaking in code because they wanted to have a business. Anyway, then I had a relative called Max. My mother never mentioned because my son is called Max. Oh, wow. And she could have said, coincidental. And they were dentists, and they kept writing to my mother. I thought maybe they didn't say it because they felt guilty because they never got any relatives out.

But I did find out. They wrote and the people said, oh, please write us an affidavit so we can get out. Then my mom did, but they'd come and the Nazis would change their mind. Then she said three times, bad to write us another one. My mother did. They couldn't get out that time. My mother wrote a third one and they locked the doors. Max and them got exterminated.

Oh, God. Now, wouldn't you think she'd mention that? And then one relative after another, five generations on my mother's side were insane. I hate to use the word insane. They called it agitated. But they were locked up in institutions. One after the other, after the other. The fifth one, they said wasn't locked up, but she set the house on fire and the police were after her.

So madness, pure madness. And when I was eight years old, I took out a book from the library. called, this is mental illness, and I never gave it back, so I must owe 10 million by now. But I was always interested in mental, and I can see why. And did you take that out because the situation you were living in at home was just like... That was mad, but is a little kid you think that's normal. Yes. It's what you know, right?

Yeah. I thought that's how, you know, your dad beats up your mom. That's their idea of hi-honey, welcome home with the cocktail. He just laid in. But I thought that was normal. And me. But now I'm starting to think, did I, he also gave me a dollop of, did I make this up? Always showing off.

Always making it up. Because I would tell people. And finally my Aunt Harriet hamburger, they're all hamburgers on the American side, saw what was going on. And she said she's not making it up. But again, it's over. I just make sure I haven't passed the baton to my kids. I mean, it's interesting because you've just said, I want to draw a line under it and I don't massively want to go over it again or anymore because it's fueling the fire in a way.

But I guess there might have been a bit of your parents that were like, we can't talk about what happened in the war. Like, just we've got to leave it behind. I don't think they were that conscious. I don't think they were that conscious because you meet other people. I've talked to other survivors. You know, they weren't locked up. they escaped because Savvy wasn't in it. You know, they were really smart.

And they just weren't conscious. These were not evolved people. So I can't say they were so traumatized. They didn't know anything was going on. They just knew to get out of there. And I guess they were just running away from it mentally. Yeah, and then had a great life in America making sausage casings. But it didn't sound like a great life.

It sounded absolutely. Yeah, but it was a great life. They were so nuts that they thought that was, you know, it's not like my mom would suddenly, you know, break character. It was like that all the time. Had they been in Vienna, they'd be like that too. That's what people said. Madness is madness. When I was kind of digging in deeper to you, there's a word that kept coming up in my heart really was safety.

that I don't know how you felt safe or where you found safety. Did you feel unsafe? I still am unsafe. I very rarely, unless I have a small room that I can lock myself in, then I feel safe. So institutions, monks' rooms, I have a little nano house where I write. I can see everything. I can see the kitchen.

I can see where everything is. And I can lock the door. Then I'm safe. But in my house, there's too many hallways. there's too many I'm scared and of course that's a scar but you should see how far I've come yeah yeah I've come far but I don't feel completely safe at home are you still hoping to get there I feel safe on a stage do you yeah isn't that mad yeah what makes you feel safe because I'm being held by people who are going to understand me instead of just free falling through space with two people

who think I'm some foreign object. They used to think my films were about how crazy I was. You know, they rolled their eyes and go, she's a mother murderer, she's insane. Both of them claimed I was. And that's exactly how you pass it to your kid. Is that, you know, if one of them gives you dead face and they're really sick, the baby or the child thinks,

it must be me because these people are saving me. So it was classic. But I've really come far. Yeah. It sounds like I'm so fucked up, but I've come far. It was interesting that, because obviously you've gone deep into psychology, neuroscience, you love all things, mental health, but you did start a course at university in psychology,

but you gave that up after a year. What happened there? Because you got so interested in it later on in life. Well, you couldn't see a person's brain at work. only study a corpse and I, you know, I wanted to eat lunch again. So I didn't go into it. But I was, you know, I was stone most of the time and I was wild. You know, I'd go to private airports and hitchhike so I could get to San Francisco. Shut up. Yeah, I'd go to private airports. Did you really? Yeah. You're so bullse. I was balsy. I'd say, where are you guys going? And they'd say,

hop on. And then I'd hitchhike across America by myself. Nobody chopped me up. Where did that come from? Because we were just talking about. not feeling safe. I know. But you put yourself in the path of what I would see. I feel really safe and dangerous situations. Isn't that weird? When I did that, I'm a thingy.

Yeah. Yeah. I felt really safe. It was one of the safest places I, yeah. Wow. Yeah, but homes are really unsafe. Homes. Okay, so you, okay.

Yeah. I get it. Yeah. But give me a group of people and their eyes are shining and they hear me. Then I'm home. It doesn't matter where it. it is. It could be on an airplane. Wow. Just give me a group.

Yeah. And they all approve? That's all I need. So that was the attraction of drama school? Well, I thought I could be, I was an ugly kid, really ugly. So my dad would take me out with famous comedians. I don't know how he knew. Can I just say something as well? What? You're so tough on yourself, aren't you? I know, I am. But I know how good I am, too. Yeah, okay. Yeah. When I'm good, I'm good. I'm trying out my show tonight. It's, you know, until it's perfect, I don't really like myself much. But when it gets good. You know it's good. Oh, yeah. You can say. I can say now it's good. I did a good job. But it takes a while.

Because saying you were an ugly kid, that's quite a tough thing to say about yourself. Well, they said, you know, and I was, I was, you know, tusks and bullcut. No, I really was. You know, I can see. not blind it was an ugly child and kind of gormlets and teeth and wearing an alpenian what's that like a Swiss outfit my mom dressed me like a Swiss you know with the with the Lada hose

yeah love Lade Hose and love them I mean it's such a good look dresses yeah really good to send kids to go to high school dress like that they didn't a sheep a sheep herder yeah and I had no friends also I was only speaking German Yeah, so your parents brought you up speaking German.

Speaking German, yeah. So not a good first day. So you're completely bilingual? Kind of. Amazing. Yeah. But, you know, I thought the whole neighborhood were refugees, which was interesting, but all hysterical.

We're these people, it's already hysterical. You know, but they're funny too. That makes a great sense of humor. Is that what gave you your sense of humor? My dad was hilarious, but at the mercy of other people. people, vicious. So it kind of gave me my sense of humor. My mother had nothing. It was just dried and angry. You said the word dried. It's just made me remember absolutely fabulous. Oh, the menopause? Oh my God. Can I, I just, I don't think I missed that. And I really feel

like I always credit Mariela Frostrop and Kirsty Walt was starting the menopause conversation. I'm Sorry, you guys started it way before anybody else. Yeah, but we were very, you know, I was playing Beth to Woody. Yeah. But I'd never, like, you were talking about dry vaginas, testosterone implants. Like, I was like, oh my God, you guys were talking about it so early doors. Mm. And nobody was talking about it.

But we talked about everything and you can in quotes and comedy. Yeah. But people think it's comedy. Yeah. So it's not the conversation. Not fully true. Yeah. Comedy is.

the most intelligent way of communicating. But it's still taken as something live weight. It's the serious thing and then you twist it into comedy. But I didn't realize we were, of course we were. It was a menopause workshop. It was really funny. I mean, looking back now, what we know now and how little anybody knew then. Yeah.

I didn't realize. Yeah. And guess what? Years later I was asked around that time and I was young, as to be the face of aginal dryness. Did you know that? And they said, we can offer you 3,000 to 5,000 pounds. And I wrote back and I said, please, just three.

It's the honor of doing it. And I said, but I demand when I go on radio shows I have sandpaper that I use before I enter. They realized I was taking the Fizz. But Jenny A. Claire ended up doing it. I think we'd have to look into that. The face of vaginal dryness. Yeah.

It's so funny how often my PR guy, like, who organises press and everything, it was a joke. Before I got menopausal, it was the big joke of like, try not to say the word vagina. I just like, almost in every interview I did, I would somewhere drop the word vagina in and he'd be like, oh, my God, she's done it again. God. And then the bigger, bigger joke was when I started working in the menopausephere, and it became totally normal for me to use the word.

not only vagina but with dry before it even better. Yeah. Well, that makes it funny. Oh, God. Not funny. But it is funny, you know. It is what happens. Until you have it.

And we all just have to kind of get on with it. But the other thing I couldn't believe was that you guys were talking about testosterone. And I only found out about that a few years ago that testosterone levels go down in women. And you were talking about it in that sketch. And that obviously women were taking it then. but it wasn't licensed, I don't think, or maybe it was licensed. No, we were so in the dark inches. Yeah, it was amazing.

And for depression, I take it. But I have like a beard on my stomach. Yeah, so do you rub it on your stomach? Well, now I do it on my legs. Yeah. Because I had to shave my stomach. Yeah, it's like you've got to change it around sometimes. Yeah.

Do you take it? Oh, yeah. I mean, I was on too much at the beginning. Uh-oh. So you were guerrilla-like? Well, I was just like frisky. Like, it was horrific. I felt like I knew what it felt like to be a young man.

Really? So when I was just like looking over there thinking and my mind went like blank like a computer does, my screensaver was sex. Right. When my mind went blank, the screensaver that came up was shagging. Wow. And then when you cut it down, it stopped?

Yes, that did. Like it wasn't a non-stop. But I was, I'd had, after four months I had a blood test and they said, okay, this is too much for you. We're going to halve it. And that was much better. I don't want to, I actually didn't like how it felt it was too much. Right. But even with half, I feel the benefits of it, which is being more on it. I can't quite explain it.

But being more able to walk into a room. like I used to and go, I know what I'm doing. This is the meeting. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Well, I can't tell because I've been on things so long. How long have you been on testosterone? Oh, I can't tell.

Because I took it for depression. Yes. I didn't take it for the regular menopause. No. Yeah. Maybe 30 years. This episode is brought to you by Airbnb. I am desperate to get to Greece.

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So all she has to do is make her place available for the dates that suit her. And off they go. The money that they make from hosting gets put into a pot for their next trip. So have you ever thought about hosting on Airbnb? I'll not give it a go. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much it's worth at Airbnb.com.uk slash host. Our sponsors, Paramount Plus, have sent me a peek at their new original series, The Madison.

Press play, Jeremy, I'm so excited. Go. You know, at night. Look at the scenery. The bull elk come down to the river and bugle. And it drives the lady elk. Oh my God, already, stop. Kurt Russell still got it.

Michelle Fiver looks epic. She looks so good. The worry is what you do next. I know you are hurting. Wait, stop. I'm going to cry. a lot, aren't I? I think it's going to be one of those ones. I'm going to be howling.

I have a very small window to feed this. Yes, that's how I feel. Yes, Michelle. You know one of those dramas where you just go, yes, at the television. It's going to be that. I can tell already. If you like

Begin Again, you're going to like this because there are life stories that we will all recognize and be able to relate I'm scrapping all my plans for tonight. I'm going to watch this non-stop because the Madison is streaming right now on Paramount Plus. Amazon presents Jeff versus Taco Truck Salsa,

whether it's Verde, Roja or the orange one. For Jeff, trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette with a flamethrower. Luckily, Jeff saved with Amazon and stocked up on antacids, ginger tea and milk. Habaniero, more like Habinier, yes. Save the Everyday with Amazon. Can I ask you about your depression?

So how did that manifest itself, or how did you realize that you had it at first? I think for people watching, there might be quite a few people who have symptoms but aren't entirely sure. It's when those normal little voices, you know, that say you're an idiot, that she doesn't really like you.

You know, the normal. Everybody has a track record going through them of negative usually. And I know why. I mean, that's why I studied the brain because I wanted to feel better about myself and realize this isn't everybody. And why? Evolutionary-wise, there's a reason for most things.

But our brains aren't equipped to deal with now. They're equipped to deal with back then. So instead of just the usual, you know, but I've learned how to deal with them, not that they go away. It's more like a scar that's fading. It becomes a hundred thousand of those voices that are coming so, that are just as if you're in jail and somebody's screaming at you or you're in hell more. Like I always say, if the devil had Tourette's, that's what it would sound like. It's just screaming so that you're limp now and helpless. If you lift

your hand, the voices are saying, you idiot, you lifted your hand, you idiot. You stupid idiot. Do you think you're lifting your hand for a reason? It's just screaming in a man's voice. And then eventually it's so loud, and your head feels like it's being filled with petrol, which is the cortisol. I can actually feel it.

And then it's dead. There's nothing. It's like in the beginning of that Beatle album where it goes, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, that noise. It's white noise now, and you're unable to move. And everything gets really, slow. And you try to pretend you are still who you are if somebody comes over and visits, but they can't tell you're imitating who you are. You're doing a rough approximation.

And then they leave the room and you're gone. So people think it's sad or people think it's mourning. You're dead. You might as well be dead. And people say, in my show, I always have the second half question and answer. And I've had people with cancer and depression stand up. Quite a few. always say which is worse, they always say the depression. Yeah. Because you get no sympathy. You know, if you could wear a headscarf or depression, well, we still might not get it because they think it's your imagination.

But it's as black and white as somebody, Luce Wilport said, what thoughts are to depression, a tumor is to cancer. Your thoughts are sick. Yes, okay. Yeah. Did you, have you ever said that you're bipolar? I'm not bipolar. You're not?

No. I know it says people say are you bipolar? No, I read somewhere, but I wanted to ask you if you thought you were because I... No, I've never gone. I've never set my hair on fire. But you have depression. Yeah. Yeah. It just goes down.

The elevator just goes down. How often does it come? Well, I thought it was coming a few days ago. So I have this thing called RTMS, which is repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation. It used to be ECT where they shot electrodes into. Now it's magnets, so it's not harmful. It looks like a 50s hair dryer. It kind of bangs against your head, but it's not too painful.

And it's to recalibrate the neurons. If they got stuck, it makes them dance again. Oh my God, that's amazing. And I took 20 sessions in a row the last time I really had it, and I could feel the sun coming up. Wow. You know when you're well. It's not like, you think this is well or not.

And it's slow. It builds. Yeah. So you can't tell. But then suddenly the sun is out. Yes. And you go, okay, I'm normal again. And when you go into it, it's so slow that you think, oh, I see, this is what aging is like.

Yeah. And you think, has somebody possessed me? But you can't talk to anybody. But you notice it coming now. I notice it coming. Yeah. And you can prevent it getting too far because you can stop it. A couple times, but it may catch me by surprise.

I mean, it is a beast. And how, like, in a year, how often would you get? get down. Oh, I could go, I used to go five years. Oh, wow. Okay. So you really thought it was your imagination. Now it's a little more often.

Why is that? I don't know. Your body gets weaker. I mean, it scares me because it's around the corner. But when I'm me, I'm me. You know, people say on stage, how are you? And you think I'd be sitting here. But if you have depression, you better get on it to depressants.

Because it's all we've got. And then they say it'll be mushrooms. Well, the thing about mushrooms is if you're on SSRIs, you can't take them. So what was the point of that? So you'd have to come off the SSRIs to take mushrooms? Yeah, and I tried to in my last book, and I ended up in a mental word. Really? Yeah.

I was doing in the last book, I was trying to find meaning, so it was a little tongue and cheek. I did these extreme things. But I ended up in a mental ward, and it looked like I was criticizing those things, whereas they're life changing. But if you come off your medication, you're back to square one. And how long can people stay on SSRIs for? Well, I've been on it over 30 years.

Oh, okay. Yeah, I don't know if I'll ever get off unless they improve those mushrooms. Yeah. I mean, that is quite interesting, the old psilocybin therapy, that people have had profound changes in their life from doing therapy where they are with a psychologist in a room and they go on a guided. Yeah. But this idea of coming off the SSRIs for someone like you has been on it for 30 years.

It's pretty scary, right? I don't know. Withdrawls from an SSRIs. Well, your brain can't take it. You know, me without those is somebody really, you know, and my dad's side, my mom's side was nuts. My dad's side, we're supposed to be having fun, is suicides. So I come from a legacy that's really dangerous.

So that's why I married my husband because he doesn't. have it. I checked the... Ed. Yeah, I checked it. So my kids don't have it. That's a miracle. So before you had kids, you made sure that Ed had no family. I checked it.

The only reason I married him was because he was clear. I didn't really like him that much. He's quite a nice guy, though. Yeah, and he had length. He had length. Yes, Ruby. I don't really know if I wanted to know that about Ed. No, tall.

He's tall. He's tall. Oh, he's tall. Sorry, I thought you were talking about his penis. No, no. I was like, I don't know if I'll ever be able to look at him again. I'm quite a lady. I wouldn't say that. No, he had long legs.

And so my children have long legs. Where did my mind go, really? You went, where it went? I think lower the testosterone. Lower the testosterone again. It's too high. It's too high. Oh, God.

I'm so embarrassed. Okay. Yes, okay. So, where are we? So you and Ed, are quite the thing because I read, and I feel like this about me and Michael, we'd spend a lot of time together and we're absolutely nuts about each other, but spending time apart is really good.

I'm mostly a part now. It makes me miss him. I'm always apart now. You know, we are really good friends. Yeah, separate lives. Because you grow, you get different interests. Yeah. How what's the chances of keeping the same interest?

So I went down into, you know, below the radar with meditation. And he's in the world of television. Whereas television is my allergy. Yes. Yeah. It's my allergy. If I get near that, the cortisol starts filling up. It was interesting because television was your savior.

Yeah. And now it's something else. What happened? I think you mature. Yeah. Your brain gets wiser. Like I'm lucky. There's a, I always said, there's an expression that says a certain point.

you can turn into wine or vinegar after about 50. Oh, I love that. Yeah, it's good, isn't it? And so I really got interested in meditation, mindfulness. And I think that means you're really interested in digging down. And that's really my interest. I don't want to have, I don't do small talk. I mean, you know, I'll be funny, you know, especially if I know that's called for.

But my real interest is when you speak below the radar. Yes. Yeah. And this podcast is called Begin Again and I'm always thinking about how can people change something in their life that will enable them to, on their deathbed, go, I really fucking had a go.

Yeah, I tried. I did everything I wanted to try. Exactly. I tried. And but you did. I mean, you are. What you're doing? Well, I did.

I mean, yeah. I was kicked out of TV. more or less, I could have kicked my way back in. So what do you mean by that? Well, after Ruby meets? Yeah, I was doing like, there was a great show, Boys with Toys, where we race to Russia. So that was my last show.

I wouldn't say that was a dud. And then Alan Yentob, who's dead, took over my slot. Well, my Sunday night slot. I can't fight that. And they said, oh, your shows don't sell anymore. Yeah, bullshit. But the point is I'm really grateful.

Because that means you have to find another cook. Yes. And boy, did I try a few things in my little skirt. I went around trying to sell bags that I designed, you know, the ultimate bag woman. I tried everything. You know, I tried to be a coach because I knew coaches made $500 instead of shrink. You know, and I had got my degree in being a shrink. Can we just talk about that?

Just tell us what degree you got. I got a degree in psychotherapy. Yeah. And I had to do from Regents. I had to do 400. hours. I did 200. Yeah. I did 200. So good. Well, it was interesting.

We need to be proud of that. What an achievement. And how old were you at this point when you did your degree? You become a shrink when you're about a good one. Yeah. Late 40s. Yeah. You were late 40s. No, I was in my 50s. Yeah. But they were, it starts then. Around menopause, people start getting interested in therapy, the wild shores of menopause. So, they were. they're interested in somebody else's mind because theirs has taken a holiday. How was the menopause for you? I thought I was, well, I took that medication, the squirting stuff.

I always do things early because I don't want to, like childbirth, I just didn't, I said cut me open. I don't want to have one contraction. I had one that was enough. So with menopause, I started using that stuff when I was suspicious. So I never really had it. God help me when I get off it. Are you ever going to get an outfit? I don't know.

They said you can only do it till 55. Well, 800 years later. You can do it for as long as you want. Yeah, so that my bones are really good. Yeah, and your brain. The brain is good. Yeah. I'm not saying that if you don't do it, it won't be.

No. Because I don't know. It's not my brain. No, any different. Yeah. I would love to delve in a little bit into you and Alan Rickman. Oh, yeah. The greatest pairing ever.

How did that happen? I saw him in Edinburgh and I was so over-excited. But I'm sexually really backward because my dad was weird about it. About sex? Yeah, about the whole thing. Did he shame you about it? Yeah, really badly and kind of suggested things. What do you mean by that sort?

Well, kind of mentioned how juicy I looked at a certain point. Creepy and made me sleep in bed with him. He didn't do anything, I don't think, unless I have a fault. go on Oprah and have a false... But it was weird. You know, they always... Unhealthy. Unhealthy.

So I'm really moronic with men. I never came on to them, and so they didn't come on to me. It was kind of late in the day, and I was married to two homosexuals. Yeah, so you married two men who... Well, they were for work permits. Right. But one of them, I really tried, but, you know, we had the same taste in genitalia I found out. Because I found all this.

male porn under the, anyway. Oh, that's tough as well. It's tough for you. And I loved him. But, and I was safe. Wasn't safe with heterosexuals. So at the RSC, I met Rickman and I, well, first I met him not at the RSC and I swore I'd be best friends with this guy. Like I did that with Carrie Fisher too.

There's a moment where I'm driven. Wait! Sorry, you were best friends with Carrie Fisher? Yeah, for 35 years. Shut the front door. I didn't know that. Yeah, well, there you. ago she didn't research that one. Yeah, she was my best friend. Oh. Yeah. That's mega. She was a mega woman.

She was a mega. Wow. Wow. You two together. Oh, it was a great. And we were going to be old lesbians together. We had our house design. We had rocking chairs. We were holding shotguns. Amazing. In case anybody came in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were angry. That's a film. That's a film. Yeah, but we, you know, if you to sleep together in bed. Yeah, brilliant. I mean, we loved each other. Oh! Unless she was too timing me, maybe she had another best friend.

No, no, no. But I interviewed her and in the show that I'm going to do, you see the moment where we fall in love. There's a moment where she clicks and says, let's go shopping and everything in my body switched on. Like I tapped dance mentally. So same for Rickman. I saw him and I said, that one's mine.

He wasn't famous. Then we both got into the World Shakespeare Company. I played some seawater and he played Jaquies. But then I did get jobs as wenches. I was a great wench. So there's wenches and as you like it and in Love's Labor's Lost. Anywhere there's a wench, I was a wench. He absolutely loved you as well.

He loved me. He just thought you... Well, he said right the way you talk. So he made me right. And he just... And then he'd do it for me and he's much funnier than I am. So he trained me for 35 years. How amazing.

And now I'm bereft. I have no replacement. Yeah. I have no, he was my, like everything. Have you ever done that for someone else? I was never that clever. He was clever. No, I mean, who would I take under my wing?

My children won't take any notes from me. I tell them if you. They don't need to. They are hilarious. Really? Yeah, your girls are so funny. Yeah, but in a different way. Yeah, but this is what's so lovely.

They've got their own flavor. I'll say simple. Yes, siblings. Siblings. Siblings. Ruby's daughters are amazing. They've got a comedy duo called Siblings. Thank you, I've said it.

They are absolutely hilarious. Like carnage, chaotic. Chaotic. Chaotic. And different from you, but there is the same sort of rebelliousness. Yeah, they tear up the... Yeah, they tear up the rulebook. But they do, they're English.

They speak English. And then they do characters, which I could never do because I don't have a good ear, clearly, because I'm still talking like this. But you do do some characters. Oh, in my show, but they're so grotesque. Yeah. They're funny. I do the English.

Yeah, they're very good. Thank you. Yes, pleasure. Okay, guys, I need you in my Begin Again gang. Listen, it's the most funnest, most awesome club in the whole world, and I want you to be part of it. So when you sign up to our newsletter, you get all the bits that I don't share anywhere else. Things that I'm loving, what I'm reading, my favourite outfits,

some of the most gorgeous Begin Again stories that you've sent in. I actually really love reading those. It's one of my favourite parts of the week. And the really fun bit is I will also share some Begin Again secrets like what guests we've got coming up and you'll know before anyone else does. Shh, don't tell everyone. So come and join the best gang ever.

The links right below. and it just takes five seconds and it's free. Oh, I've got something to show you, actually. We printed this out. Oh, my God. Do you remember that? Yes. Here, look, have a look.

Movie wax, for me, definitive, an irrepressible jacquinnetta, never simply a bit of routine peasantry. How good is that? Yep. I'm keeping that. That's getting really blood up. Yeah, take it. Stratford Actra's definitive.

Well, that's, where's my picture? There's no picture. See, it's never good enough. All right, I'm keeping this. But isn't that great? I was a good wench. Yeah. And I had, I look good in a corset.

Yeah. Those breasts were out there. Perky. Working it. Working it. But then after a while, you were like, I want to try something else. How did you get to become Ruby Wax? How did that happen?

It was easier in those days because I think they put me with French and Saunders and then I was supposed to write for them, but we came up with girls on top because they had the young ones and we thought, well, we'll do the female version. So we wrote for two years laughing like maniacs and just eating all the time. Never thought it would go on TV and then there it was. And my husband directed it. And I was late in the day I had two eggs left. So I said, would you please fertilize me?

And that's pretty much my story. You asked him to marry you, didn't you? What? Did you ask him to marry you? Yes. Men didn't really go for me. Gay men fall for me. But straight guys didn't really go.

So you were like, you had to ask. I had to ask, yeah. And he was going out with somebody, but Dawn went up to the girl and went scram. And then waited outside the door until we consummated. and wouldn't open the door until he consummated with me. Is that serious? In Nottingham, yeah.

Oh my God, that's amazing. What was she like? Did she cheer or something after she'd heard that it had been consummated? She just got rid of the girlfriend at the last night party. Walk off. And she scramed and then locked us in a room and said, you're not coming on until you consummate. She knew how to take care of me.

But you and Ed, even though you are leading separate lives, you are good friends. Yeah, we're good friends. He lets me do what I want. I think that's hitting bull's eye. And there's deep love there? I guess. Yeah. Yeah. I guess if you let somebody be completely free. Yes. I mean, months go by. And I'm in different countries because I like the new. Some people could call it running, but I love the new. You know, where the environment switches, switches and you have to make new friends. And then that becomes my people say, I have three kids and I go, you know, you have. three kids and then my girlfriend said, so do you. I forgot. I forgot. You're married. You've got three kids, but you still love being alone going on adventures. I don't like being alone, but I like forming communities. When I go, I'll make a community because I can for some reason.

And that's my reality. So I just was in Costa Rica teaching mindfulness with John Cabinzinn and Jack Hornfield. These are the big boys. would, that's who those are my rock stars. And Bessel van der Kolk, who wrote Body Keeps, Escort, Esther Perel, they all go to Costa Rica to teach. So I was teaching too. Now I know that's landing from another planet into something that's unbelievable. And so I made friends there.

And during the month, if you said, where did I live? I'd say, here. Just like in the jungle, I said, this is where I live. These are my friends. My God, there's so much I want to talk to you about. You've just mentioned the jungle. What was that like? Were you surprised at how much you kind of enjoyed it?

No. I thought I would. I thought I didn't really see the show before, so I kept saying to Ginge, are we live? And he'd go, we're always live. Let's just talk about you and Ginge. Right. So cute. Were we cute?

Oh, my God. Yeah. Like such good friends. Unexpected friendship. I think for him in particular, he was like, oh my God, I love this woman. Yeah, I think they felt, do you think this is amusing that I said, why do you like me so much, like, because I'm cool?

Or like, because I'm really attractive. And he said, no, you remind me of my nan. Now, I'm sorry, that was really upsetting because I thought they'd say, you're the coolest person we've ever met. That's when somebody comes up to me and goes, oh, my mom loves you. Oh, yeah, I get my grandmother. Yeah. Yeah, before.

But it's lovely, I think, when you meet a whole new bunch of people that really almost don't know anything about you. They've got no history with you or, you know, way back when. They don't know who I am. No. No, he had no idea. He thought I was like, I just walked off the street. Yeah. So he, first of all, I told him to get out of my light and everybody went, oh, how can she talk to somebody like that?

And he loved the abuse. Some men just, because to me, that's flirting. It's the only way I know you just, like with him. and over and over getting treated like shit. And they love it. You know, listening to your life and what you've been through and the beginnings of it and the sort of chaos and the moving around, and then how did you come to be fascinated by mindfulness?

Like what made you think, oh, this is something I'd like to experiment with. Who did you meet? I was in the institution and I already was a psychotherapist and they told me to leave because I missed too many because I was in that, uh, that state of not being able to move. And they said, oh, you'll have to start over again. This is after I got my degree. But I was going for a master's.

So I thought, okay, I panicked. So I said, Ed, take me to mindfulness because I knew it was free. Once you learn it, you don't have to pay for a shrink. And that was my only stipulation. And I was curious. So he took me from the institution. I was in my pajamas. When you say institutions, do you mean like a treatment center?

Nightingale, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, clinic. What do you call it? Mental clinic? A clinic. A clinic. Yeah.

Well, I wasn't having my nails done. Clinic. Le clinic. Le mental asylum. Lehm. So. So, and did they tell you about that there, mindfulness? No, I just heard about it.

So Ed picked me up. I was in my pajamas. I went to a course. And I said, this is really interesting, but I want to know what happens neurologically. because I don't have time for this. You know, I'm not sitting and breathing. And if you teach it wrong, that's what it looks like. Another woo-woo thing.

Yeah. So I said, who invented this or who brought it from the East? And they said, Mark Williams. So he was teaching at Oxford. So in my pajamas with a coat over it, I got on a bus and went to Oxford. You went on a bus? A bus. In your pajamas?

In my pajamas. With a coat over it. That's how I traveled because I was in there for five months at that time. God. What a life. All the people in the institution in Le Clinique said, God, you're so brave because I put my lipstick on. I thought near my mouth around my eye. It's close.

So I got, I was, you know, pajamas, they look like clothes, but I just couldn't get dressed. But I could get on that bus. And I found Mark Williams. And I said, what goes on in the brain, I went to where he was working. And he said, he said, I'll teach you how to do mindfulness. He took mercy on me. And so he taught me mindfulness, sometimes coming to my closet in London. I don't know why he did that.

But he saw something in you. He must have done. And then he said, you have to get into Oxford. And so, boy, did I give an interview. Boy, did I interview. And I said, if you don't let me in, I'm going, I'm studying this anyway. And that's to do your master's. To do my master's and study neuroscience.

I said, you guys don't matter. And that is like getting a man. You guys don't matter. So I was in. And then it was, that's where I thought mindfulness is interesting because you could see what happens in a brain scanner, exactly what you're exercising. And it has the same results for medication.

And I mean, I know this sounds a bit of a stupid question, but I'd be really interested to hear your take on exactly what mindfulness is. You know, people think, oh, it's, you sit down and you don't think of anything. But like, what is it? Well, it's, you know, when you go to the gym and you lift a weight and you get a bicep. So this is it for the mind.

But you have to understand that when you are, there's certain parts like the alarm, the amygdala is aroused. And we live in a continual state of arousal. Continuous. We have no way of coming down. Yes. So that part is activated. There's another part when you send focus into your body called the insula.

I'm making it easy. When you sense something or you feel your ass on the chair or you feel your feet on the ground or you, You're doing Pilates or something, and you're in your body instead of just competing with the next person. You're in it, and you can feel it. When you're in that state of sensing inside, another part gets activated. The amygdala can't be activated at the same time. Right.

So the other part, like you can't hear something, like when you really listen. Yes. And think at the same time. So you're tricking your brain. So you get used to kind of going into the body. The thoughts will take over. They have to. People go, I can't stop thinking.

You're supposed to. But you bring the focus back to that sense, like breathing. The thoughts come, you bring it back. And every time you do that, you need the thoughts. It's like lifting a barbell. So that insulin and other areas in the brain gets sicker and thicker. Like you can say it's muscle, but it's neurons. It's neural growth.

And when you have growth in those areas, it means you're more proficient at doing certain things like focusing your attention. Like bringing you down your cortisol, even there's a shift. storm around you. Because people say, oh, I jog or I play golf. Well, if somebody's giving you hell or your kids are screaming, are you going to start jogging? So when I'm in this situation, I can pull down my cortisol,

only because I exercise certain parts. And it's going back and forth, thoughts back to the sense, thoughts back. Even two minutes a day, those parts will get, if you do five sit-ups a day, it'll take longer to get a six-pack. But eventually, you'll have it. So people say, how long does it take? We'll do three minutes a day. But it's a specific exercise.

It isn't just sitting there breathing. You're training your body like you would a wild animal, like you would a child having a hissie fit, you're training it, you're giving it an anchor. Otherwise, your thoughts will think about thoughts, they'll think about thoughts. When we ruminate, that's what wipes us out. That's what frazzled means. Frazzled doesn't mean stress. It means stress about stress, and that's a new disease.

that I go, oh shit, I shouldn't be like this. Nobody else is. DeVina has everything going. I don't. And the story will never end. It'll never end. But I think if you're a little more, I hate the word mindfulness, but if you're a little more conscious or aware,

you'd think, let me calm my cortisol down, look at her in the eyes and think we're both human. But I can only see you like or see what you see if I'm cool. Yes. If my mind is gambling too much, we're just talking. talking superficially. Yes. You did a book with Geelong, didn't you? Thubton. Gilong. Gelong. Yeah. I call him, oh my God, I call him Geylon. Really? Yeah, Geylon. He'll answer to anything. What a guy. What a guy. I love that man. Yeah. He lives in my house for five years.

You're joking. No. And I picked him up at a conference and I said, I'm begging you to come live with me. And I said, because you match my sofa. And I used to put him on my red sofa and we just see his head floating there. It was hours of fun. And then I got, you know, he's like having a smudge stick living at my house. And we laugh. Nobody's as outrageous as him. No one. He's wild. But I like him because he has all that amazing energy and sense of self and calmness. But he's also a normal person. Yeah. But hilarious. But funny? Like you wouldn't expect that of a, Well, he's disciplined, you know, if I did one month of silence, which already is a killer, he did five.

You've done a month of silence? Yeah. Have you? Yeah. In a silent retreat. Oh, my God. You're doing 13 hours of meditation. Yeah, that's a goal for me for the future.

It's hardcore. But your mind in the beginning is an aunt. It's going to savage you. And if you left during that point, good luck. It's savaging you. But it gets louder and louder and louder. but because you're anchoring yourself with the mindfulness, it doesn't slip into depression.

It keeps coming back, but it's hell. Keeps coming back to the anchor. Mind, hell, hell, hell, everything. And about a week in, it finally gets exhausted. And then you start to taste food for the first time. I had an affair with a digestive. I had an affair with a digestive. I couldn't believe what...

Because you're not talking to anybody anymore. You're not going, what do you do for a living? Or, you know, you're sitting at the table. You're completely present because now you're tuned in. The thoughts are still there, but they're more, boy, are you a jerk. They're like firecrackers that can't go off. Just vaguely. Just really silent.

Still trying to get you, but you can't hear the end of the sentence. And then they give you a digestive. I took a bite and my head was flung backwards. What's flung, I couldn't believe the taste. And I saved it in my shoe. It took me a week to eat it. And then I ran into the kitchen once. I lost my silence.

This is the three weeks in and I said, how did you make this egg? And they went with an egg. But you'd watch spiders making spider webs going, oh my God, because everything becomes fascinating. In the beginning. But that's present, being present, right? Like in the most amazing way.

Mindfulness is something that I think would benefit most people. not everybody. No. Why not? I just think we're all different fingerprints, you know, so what's good for me, you know, isn't good for the next person. And if you really hate it, don't do it, because the ultimate, ultimate thing is to be, the reason you're bringing your focus back to the sense, back to the sense,

is you've got to do it with kindness, because otherwise you're just exasperating the mind and it'll go, you come back, you idiot, you just went off. But you're supposed to go to thinking. But if you do it like gently with a dog that's wild, it'll sit in your lap. So you learn to be nice. I used to say to Mark Williams, I can't say the C word. Compassionate. It's like a little greeting card.

Oh, compassionate being the C word. Yeah. I love that. Yeah, I can't say it. Now I can say it. But he said the fact that you can sit and do mindfulness, even for three minutes, he said that that's compassion. The fact that you do that to your body.

But, you know, people are so, you know, I was saying that people in this country, when I first got here, weren't even brushing their teeth. And now everybody's in the gym trying to get, you know, breasts under their arms. Well, that'll get you a hotter date. But the brain exercise makes you live longer. Have you done everything that you wanted to try? Have you kept your side of the street clean? Who do you need to make amends to? I mean, I know I have dirt in the corners that I need to sweep out or get out, you know, and I'm not there.

But I've done everything I wanted to do and sort of gone everywhere. So I don't feel frustrated in that and tried everything. I mean, there's a bit of me that's really decadent, not sexually. I see that. Yeah, decadent, yeah. And I'm very loose morally. that's not my that's not I'm not saying that's the dirt no but do you find that's getting worse because I find that I'm getting like

more Miriam Margolis by the minute like I'm like I don't give a shit anymore about what people think of me which is not how I felt my 20s or my 30s no that's lessening but I have FOMO and I only have FOMO when I'm in London that's why I like being out of here There's a bit of me that my heart breaks when somebody does better than me. I can't go on social media. I pay somebody because I'm competitive and that disgusts me. But I hope before I die, I can go, I had, you know, it doesn't bother me.

I mean, I've done so much more than people who just didn't show business. And yet I think there's a resentment that I've been kicked out. Right. But if you gave me. By the BBC. Yeah. Yeah. On the other hand, if I was still there, I'd be kicked out by now anyway.

Or what would I be doing? But look in a funny kind of way when something like a big organization that you've worked with for decades let you go or that you leave, I mean it was a kind of two-way thing, wasn't it really? But that you look what you went off and did. No, I know.

Your whole mindfulness. Oh yeah, no, no. When I think of it as somebody else, I think, wow, how do you do that? But I don't like that I have photo. And I don't like that, I'm loose morally. And any other things that you want to sort out before you die?

FOMO, loose morally, and being able to feel safe where I'm standing. How is that going to happen? Well, I'll work on it. That's my next job. If I can do that, then I can die. I also volunteer to be a, I work at a hospice so that I can be near it. I can be near death. Oh, can I just say something?

What? That's so weird. When I retire, I'd like to be a death doler. I went on a course. You didn't? Yeah. Did you really? I did.

Oh my God, how funny is that? In the last few months. No. Yeah. What an honour to be with someone and to be able to help them. What an honor. Yeah. What an honor?

Yeah. No, I did it. Have you been with people when they've died? I was with... Rickman. Oh, were you? That's so beautiful. That's such a hole. I mean, I'll never get over that one. When did he die? It's 10 years ago. Yeah, it's really tough. I'll never get him. Yeah. And Carrie? Yes. Well, top those acts. So I feel privileged to be around people who are dying. So I've, I worked in the Marston a long time ago and they let me take people out.

you know, to take them to get drinks and things because they're dying. And now it's at St. George's. Yes. But because of my tour and stuff, I can't get there a lot. But when they do let me, yeah, that's my, I wouldn't say my happy place, but I feel like I can give them some life. But anyway, that's what I do. And if I didn't tour so much, I'd do it more.

So listen, before we finish, I just wanted to, Is there another? Yeah, there's another little thing here. A little card. A little card. I want you to read it out loud. Please. Okay.

From Alan's niece, Sarah. No one could make Alan laugh the way that Ruby did. He marveled, adored, and hugely admired her. His death was devastating for so many, but despite dealing with her own unfathomable grief, she was still there for Rima, caring for her in the aftermath, like only she could. Ruby was Alan's best friend, and I'm grateful for the deep friendship she still has with Rima. It is a beautiful thing. If I could cry, I'd cry.

I can't cry. Thank you. That's really beautiful. Ruby, I have such profound respect for you. Thank you. You're an amazing woman. What a role model. To keep reinventing yourself and to never stand still.

I know that like you can't help here it's impossible for you to stand still with or loose morals yeah but I really I look up to you it's very nice to have someone to look up to thank you

yeah and thank you for living such a brilliant life and sharing it with us today thank you let's hope I can be alone I'm coming over to hug you while you're sitting okay yeah let's give a round of applause everybody thank you

So just in case you missed this episode here, if you love this episode, I know you're going to love that.