Begin Again with Davina McCall - Sophie Ellis-Bextor: The Moment I Said Yes to Saltburn & Why I'm Happier Than Ever at 46!

Episode Date: September 4, 2025

In this episode of Begin Again, British singer, disco icon, and mother of five Sophie Ellis-Bextor opens up about the unexpected resurgence sparked by Saltburn and how it reconnected her to the song that changed everything, Murder on the Dancefloor. From topping charts in the early 2000s to performing in her kitchen during lockdown, Sophie shares the real story behind her many reinventions. She talks candidly about the highs of her solo career, the heartbreak of a band breakup at 21, and the challenges of early motherhood, pre-eclampsia, and building a creative life around family. With signature humility and sharp insight, Sophie reflects on the strength she found through setbacks, and how saying “yes” to joy, and to herself, made her happier than ever at 46. 👉 Follow us on Instagram: @beginagain 🎥 Watch more on TikTok: @beginagainpod (01:13) Introduction to Sophie   (02:41) The ‘Saltburn’ Phenomenon & Recent Success   (09:37) Sophie's First Record Deal   (11:36) Losing Her Record Deal   (13:27) Almost Turning Down "Groovejet"   (18:12) The Joy of Aging & Falling in Love With Disco   (20:46) Parenting and Sophie’s Famous Parents   (31:02) Airbnb Ad   (32:05) Adobe Ad   (33:13) Motherhood, Lockdown & the Beginning of Kitchen Disco   (38:30) Meeting Richard at 22 and Getting Pregnant at 24   (42:29) Preeclampsia and the Miracle of Birth   (49:04) Protecting Our Children From the Public Eye   (53:44) Embarrassing Our Kids and Loving It   (55:35) Sophie & Richard's 20-Year Marriage   (01:01:01) Giving Advice & Guiding Our Children   (01:03:50) The Joys of Kitchen Disco   (01:06:02) Naming the New Album 'Perimenopop'   –  Sponsored by: Airbnb - https://www.airbnb.co.uk/host –  Sponsored by: Airbnb - https://www.airbnb.co.uk/host Adobe - http://adobe.ly/Davina Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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countertop wipes, and fly traps. Hey, fruit flies, your baby boom ends here. Save the everyday with Amazon. When the band split up, it was pretty devastating. It's over and I'm 20. But now I'm 46 and I could see saltburn sparking this whole resurgence of a murder on the dance floor. What does it feel like to suddenly become iconic again?

As soon as I did my first gig in that band, age 16, it was like all the dots joined up. We signed a record deal, front cover of Melody Maker, went straight from my A-Levels to be on the enemy Bratbust tour. I was like, here we go. But then all the wheels fell off. I genuinely just thought there's not going to be a comeback from this, that's that. And then this song came to me and I thought it'll give me back the thing I love doing.

Richard's an amazing support to you, isn't he? We just had our 20th wedding anniversaries. I mean, in today's day and age, it's a massive achievement. How have you done that? We've been dating for six weeks and then I realised I'm pregnant. I just didn't feel that great. I was getting headaches, went for a checkup and they said, you are being taken straight to a hospital that has a neonatal.

unit. Wow. When I was younger, I was much more inhibited. The final piece of the puzzle was getting older. Losing my inhibitions and worry about who I was and what I was supposed to have achieved, I could just be myself. I really love you. Sophie. This is so nice. I know. I've been really good before to it. It's happy to be doing this. So, first of all, I want to say congratulations on an amazing career. And, you know, five top ten singles in the UK. How many, is it six top ten albums? Something like that. I mean, like, amazing. I was just thinking, I don't actually know. So I was thinking, whatever you tell me, I'm not going to be able to contradict or correct. I've actually got no idea. I think that's why we all love you.

Because you don't know. Because I don't like to exaggerate. No, because that is really who you are. It's like you just really enjoy the ride, I think. I really enjoy the ride. And from the very first start of the whole thing, particularly my solo career, everything I do, I think if it is meters on the plank.

I've thought of myself, I'm on the ship. There's the plank. At one point the plank will finish. I will have to fall off into the sea. for every time things work well enough, I strap on another little plank because I'm on this very, very perilous, long, very fixed together with rope, plank. But it's still there. It's still there. Isn't that mega?

My balance is still there. We'll be wobbling around the end of the plank. I remember seeing you a couple of times after saltburn. Yes. And just us both going. Yeah. What? Yeah.

Like so mega. Yeah, mad. Exciting. What was that like? I want to go back to the beginning in a minute, but that was such a mega time in your life. It was. And actually, it's very, it's fitting place for us to start chatting in a lot of ways because so much what was special about it wouldn't have happened if I hadn't had all the bits that had gone before to inform.

Like, to deal with success. Because actually, I think when you do, you work in an industry. like ours, we're not very well informed on how to deal with things going right. Things going badly, very familiar. Yeah. Things going well can be really, can really spook you a bit or feel like something's run away with you and you're not really in ownership or in tandem with the energy that's being created or you're just not enjoying it that much. And for me, because I could see that what was happening with, you know, saltburn sparking this whole research.

of a really old friend, which is Merd on the Dance Floor, a song I've always happily sung and enjoyed performing, I could really enjoy what was happening in a very pure way without asking for more, without expecting anything else to happen, but just enjoying what that was all about and knowing it's a sort of lightning strike kind of a feeling, really. So yeah, it's good. I mean, I feel like, again, that is one of the things that we love about you is that it felt like you just really again enjoyed the ride. It was that sort of, this has happened to me. I'm going to take all the opportunities, really enjoy it,

but not kind of demand anything. I'm just going to realise that this is just magic. Exactly that. I'm not feel greedy about it, but also I'm lucky enough to involve a lot of people. So firstly, a lot of people that worked, murder was nice that it was that song that had that moment because that really did take me back to the beginning.

It was one of my first ever solo single. And happily for me, I'm still working with a lot of the same people. Oh, really? Yeah. So they're all these proud uncles and aunties of the song as well that was seeing what was happening with it and excited about it. And then with my work, I have my husband Richards in the band, my brother, Jack's on drums.

I would just involve people. So it meant that I wasn't suddenly finding myself on my own in a hotel somewhere thinking, well, this is great, but I actually wish I was at home. I was drinking all of that in as well. Some of it was taking the kids. places and just yeah that's one big lesson for me is like involving people i think i function a lot better and i get more out of it that way god well it when when a program a film or a drama decides to use your music how do they approach you how does that happen um it's a fairly dry process really

you get an email um so for me um because i'm one of the writers on the song you get an email which is just asking for clearance of the publishing and it provides a little form which will just give you of all the details, but it's a little synopsis. Is it a synopsis of the scene? Actually, it was. So it did. It doesn't sound that dry to me. It did jump out a little bit.

But I remember just being kind of amused because I thought, oh, naked dancing. That sounds like fun. That's something I've got to see. Yeah, sure. You know, I didn't really think twice. But also I could see it was Emerald Fennell directing and I thought, oh, she's brilliant. So I was happy. I felt very complimented.

And if nothing more had happened. And other than that little reacher, I was very satisfied. It was one of the most iconic moments in television I have seen in years. I mean, Barry was the perfect person to do that because he brought it a gravitas, but also a dark celebration. Exactly that. It's twisted. It's twisted. But the song is so, like, perfect for that moment.

It was where music met TV drama at its very, very best. Well, that's what was so incredible about it, I thought. And I think there might be something in the song that lends itself to a little bit of that because the video, the music video I did for murder, way back with my friend Sophie Miller, who director I still work with. I'm proud auntie. I was devious in that too. I'm an evil dance competition contestant who cheats her way to winning and gets to be celebratory at the end.

It's a similar thing, actually. So it was perfect. So the song must have something. Yes. It's soundtracks very well. Getting what you want by ill-advised means. And do you mind me asking how old you are? I'm 46.

So at 46, what does it feel like? to just suddenly become iconic again. Like, not that you weren't always iconic, but to a whole new audience. I think that's a beautiful thing. It's a bit like, I guess, in television, you know, I meet an 18-year-old now. They don't, no idea who I am.

Everybody knows who you are. I don't know about that. But also, I would say, firstly, I don't mind you asked, I'm really happy to talk about my age because I like getting older. Unexpected pleasure. Yes, since we are kindred spirits in this way. I like it a lot. I like having more experience. I like the deep roots I have of, you know, people around me in my life. But also with, I don't know if I think of myself in a third person perspective in terms of like how people perceive me in the public.

I think if I was doing that, I would have probably gone loopy a long time ago. But when you ask about the sort of, you know, the people engaging with it, I think that was the thing that I really could recognise. and feel very, is really special. Because especially if you make pop music, disco, dance music, this sort of genre I'm in, it's all about dialogue because you put music out hoping that someone engages with it back, you know, a shimmy, because it's often a little dance with me. But that's what you're hoping for.

And so to see people involving my music into their world and to see people, yeah, younger people engaging it, is really special. Yes. That's not something I take lightly, but I also can really see where I am at in the food chain. It's all about their experience and I just happen to be the song that accompanies them. And I think that's the beauty of doing what I do really. It's special.

I think what's interesting you were talking about, well, when you're talking about I can see where I am in the food chain. And the kind of word that just popped into my mind with you is humility. and how nice that is to see in someone that's had such a fantastic successful career. And I know that you'd be like, well, it was quite successful. But it has been, and it's ongoing. You know, you're still making that plank longer. I've literally just got goosebumps talking about it because I'm so proud of you. And don't forget we are friends in the making here.

This is like I am really, and Michael, I talked about you at length of Michael last day. Yeah, we were like both talking about you as a person and why you are genuinely so likable and it's that humility. And you talk about a moment when you joined your first band and about how after three years the record deal didn't work out and how, thank God for that. Yeah, really. Why?

Firstly, I think I would have been a nightmare if everything had kept going well. So what was it about that? You would have hated, I would have hated me. I would have been so annoying. I mean, yes, I was, I think it was all a little bit. I mean, I loved it, but it was all going so smoothly until it really, all the wheels fell off. So yeah, my first band was a band called The Audience, and I was passionate about my music. And as soon as I did my first gig in that band, age 16, I was like, I found.

the thing I love. It was like all the dots joined up and I just, no looking back. So that was significant. But also we signed a record deal and a big flurry, front cover of Melody Maker, went straight from my A-levels to be on the enemy Bratbos tour. I was like, here we go. This is so great. It all unfolds. So when the band split up, firstly, yeah, it was pretty devastating. All my girlfriends had gone off to uni. I was left, it was like 20 dropped. I was thinking, oh my gosh, I'm going to be this terrible person of the rest of my life dines out on this bit of my life already

and it's over and I'm 20. We're like, I had a record deal once, like, I felt so sad and so broken, and, you know, kind of sort of embarrassed and I felt like I could see, like, oh, no, I've already screwed this up. But also, even though it was a hard time to go through, to go through, I was very fortunate that it taught me a big lesson. Firstly, that if you really want to do the thing you do, you're going to want to do it, come rain or shine, and you won't be a fair weather singer. You'll do it no matter what. So I was like, well, I guess that's that

then. Here I go. Unfortunately, I wasn't in that situation for very long because Groovejet came along and swirled me around and took me to what ended up being my solo career. But, but, you know, when you're in a moment where everything's gone wrong, you could, it doesn't matter if you, you know, hindsight proves it wasn't very long. It gave me, it gave me all the lessons I needed to learn, even though it was probably only about 18 months. Well, 18 months, I think at that time of your life, it's a long time. It feels, it feels like, um, I, I remember, you know, I've said to my kids, it's a year left, you know, of school or something or, or, you know, You've only got a year with your GCSEs and then you're done.

But I can see for them it feels like forever. Yeah, and it's also I genuinely just thought there's not going to be a comeback from this. That's that. That was my one experience of success doing the thing that made sense to me. How did Groovejet find you? Well, that was just bizarre in a way because when I was in my band, I'd signed a publishing deal even though I didn't write any songs. and I didn't understand that's what the deal was.

So I just sort of have a similar attitude to contracts now, quite frankly, it's probably fine. Yeah, is this okay? Sure. Okay. So I'd signed this deal and then when Griev Jett was looking for a top line. So it was a hit in the clubs already, but I was unaware of this because I wasn't a club kid in that way, indie kid over here, wasn't listening to House and Dance. So this song came to me as this instrument.

and they said they're looking for someone to sing the top line and maybe do some writing and they thought of you and I was actually a little bit insulted because I was like, I'm an indie singer. So why am I being sent this song? Stop playing it. A couple of weeks later was doing the unusual behavior of tidying up my flat and found this CD and put it on and I thought, actually, you know what, there's something in this I quite like. And so I said, yeah, I'll have a go.

and the song just absolutely snowballed. But I remember thinking no one will even know I did this, but for me, it will give me something. It'll give me back the thing I love doing. I mean, that song set me on fire. Yay. I've got such, I mean, it changed my life. I've got a big soft spot for that song forever.

And interestingly, as a die-hard clubber, your voice just lent something amazing to that backtrack. just thought it was really, really good. Like it was, yeah, it was an absolute brilliant co-lab between the two of you. Was it, did you end up going to loads of clubs to perform it? Yeah. I mean, quite mad, isn't it, when you're not really a clubby person? No.

And suddenly you're in this environment. What's that like? Well, firstly, I was so naive about it that when I was being interviewed about the song, I would say, I don't like house music. And the PR for the song Can you stop then? Yeah, to take me into one's signs that you have to stop saying that now.

I've just been really honest. Secondly, when the song actually charted, I wasn't signed to the label, so I had no label, and my manager had also party raised me that week. He said, I wish you all the best, but I don't really understand this world.

So I got over 30 ulcers on my tongue when it chatted and I was really stressed out. Oh, God. He said to me, can I give you one bit of advice? don't go and sing in all the clubs because you might find yourself that's all you do well I was broke and excited

and given opportunities and I sang in all of the clubs that invited me and then some I would head out and I was just so overjoyed to be back singing and excited with the momentum what's having the song but yeah I'm afraid I did completely ignore that advice

but why would he say that and what did it I mean I'm sure it was a benefit to you to do that and to get a audience and sing in front of people that might know. I think it's different now because everything is so crossed, cross culture. We don't have these lanes in the same way. But back then, you know, this was literally the year 2000.

So it was very much different lanes of traffic in terms of music and where that would take you. And so I think that, yes, me jumping from doing an indie record to doing the house track now doesn't maybe seem that bigger jump. but then it felt quite pronounced. Yeah. And he just said, I don't really get this well, but I think probably you don't want to get stuck in the clubs

because that's, you'll just be there singing in clubs for you the rest of your life, which, be honest, I would have been happy with it. Yeah. But yeah, I do take some advice, but I didn't take that one, that bit of advice. And because, like, it feels like you fell in love with dance music a bit then at that point. Yeah. Well, I traced it back because I had this amazing tour manager called JP and we would, He played me Larry Levan mixes of the Paradise Garage

So taking me right back to the days of disco Oh my god, so he was literally like teaching you Yes, he'd be playing that way driving in between these many clubs That I was apparently not supposed to be doing And track two on one of the CDs was the Cher version, the original Take Me Home, this seven minute, glorious version And so when I signed to Polador I said This is the song I want to do a cover of because I'm so in love with it

So yeah, that was me I only really discovered disco in my 20s, but wow, I fell very hard and fast for it. Because for me, that was the root of the side of house music I liked. It always comes back to storytelling and the voices and the lyrics and I just got so involved in that world. And also a lot of disco has older women's voices, cautionary tales, you know, Young Hearts Run Free is not told from a young woman's perspective. It's sad. It's sad. It's really sad.

Saying, you know, look, what's going to happen to is you're going to end up high and dry. you'll be brokenhearted. Don't do what I did. Don't fall in love. But I love that it was an older perspective, the older wisdom. And I thought for me that was really lovely because pop music can be so rooted in youth. But disco can support all those, all that heartbreak as well. I mean, it makes me think about all the brilliant elder stateswomen we've got in music.

Yes. I mean, Dolly. Oh, I mean, where do we even start? Just in love with her, basically. Yeah. It's just like, but I love that you've brought that to music, like to brought wisdom. Oh, yeah. I've definitely been so inspired.

Yes. There's so many women that I'm very aware that there's nothing I do that is groundbreaking. There have been so many incredible women that have gone before me and beaten all the paths. Yes. So that I can twirl along them too. And yeah, I'm just, it's a nice feeling. I enjoy that. It makes me feel lifted and part of something and makes me braver,

which I think is a nice thing to inhabit. Courage. Yeah. Yeah, being a bit bold. That was one thing I didn't think I would find out about myself as I got older when I was younger. I was much more inhibited then, way more. I mean, I haven't watched anything recently,

but I know when I did Groovejet performances, I would stand completely still. I was like, I'm not going to dance. What happens if I look stupid dancing and I'm doing a dance trip? Now I'm like, I am aware of how I look dancing and I don't care. Don't care. But isn't that? The beauty of getting older.

Yes. So good. Yeah. It's so good. In all the ways. Yeah, absolutely. I love that very much. And I've taken a lot from conversation as well.

like speaking to you you're so supportive and generous with that it builds other people up it's a lovely way to interact with the planet and with the people you happen to be sharing it with so I think I take a lot of stock from that I'm one of those people

that feels the best I can be when I'm surrounded by good people yeah I mean everybody does to a certain extent but what I mean is I can't do things in a void I need connection food yes That's what it is, isn't it? Yeah, yeah.

I want to, I'm fascinated by, obviously I'd love to talk to you about you and Richard and your boys, but something that fascinates me personally is that you were the child of famous parents. I mean, your father, perhaps people might not have known him. No, yeah, he wasn't in the public. No, but he was famous within his own world. He was well known in his own world. your mom was mega to famous, to like everybody. I remember your mum so clearly on the television.

She was weekly, you know, she was in our living rooms weekly on Blue Peter, Janet, mega woman. And then you have gone on to become a famous parent yourself. That is such a unique situation. There aren't that many women, I don't think, that have done that. And I'd be very, because it's been a real worry for me as a famous mother. on how will this affect my children? How can I keep them safe?

How can I not... I mean, I spend a lot of time when I was younger trying not to embarrass them. I don't care anymore. No, me neither. But... Sorry, kids. Sorry, yes.

Sorry about that. But I would love to hear your tape because that's so unique. I mean, Janet has a mum. What was life like being the child of a famous mother? Right. Well, firstly, I'd say, you know, objectively, us worrying is a bit pointless because whatever family are born into,

the family dynamic affects who you are. So it doesn't matter. Yes. You don't get away with not being affected by your family damage. Oh, that's, yes. Okay. So don't worry. It's like just how it works, isn't it?

Sorry. That's actually kind of brilliant. Like if I was famous or not, the family down. Be free from that, worry. Because your family dynamic is 100% what affects you. You know when you sit like you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, Like, God, oh my God, that is literally the first time I've thought about that. Oh.

That is mega. Yes. God, thank you. Well, no, not at all. And it doesn't matter whether you're famous or not or who you are. No. Your family dynamic will be affected. Yes.

Oh, God. Okay. Yeah. Wow. I'm going to be thinking about that tonight. Oh. That's brilliant. Thank you.

Wow. Okay. Yes. Yes. And also, I realized as soon as soon as you started talking about my parents, I started smiling a lot. because very close to my parents. And with my mum, geographically, we live about 10 minutes away from each other.

The dream is, because I really hope someone my kids do that with me, please. They will. They definitely. Or I'm going to them. No, and I reckon you have a similar vibe to with your kids. I bet there's my mum had with me, which is like the same way I'm going to do it, by the way, strong matriarch vibes of just like, stay close, get in touch, keep communicating with each other, check in. It's so important. So yes, I see my mum.

Sometimes I'll be walking the kids to school and the bit of park we walk through. I'll see my mum walking her dog. So it's all pretty wholesome. We see bump into Grandma quite a lot. Oh, that's so nice. Yes, I love it. Yes, oh yeah.

Yeah, so I love that. And I think with my, look, I mean, it would be, I can see that there must be some seeds that were sown from what my mum did that somehow worked into what I was going to do, for sure. What sort of seeds? One of them is really embarrassing. But this is really not going to put me good life.

I'm sorry. No, go on, tell me. Well, I would love to say it was all to do with work ethic. But I just remember when I was, I think it must have been my seventh birthday. And we went to Madden Two Swords. And because my mom was on Blue Peter, we got to go straight in the front. And I think I was a bit like, that's pretty cool. And I do appreciate it does not pick, I was seven.

That is like, that's like high currency when you're small. So that's probably a little seed there, isn't it? But I also, speaking to the front of the Madam Two Swords. Oh my goodness. How does this work? What? Sorry, how does that work?

I think was cool. What would your kids think was cool about you now? What have you done for them where they'd go, oh, this is ACE. Oh. It's quite an interesting. I'm trying to think of anything that I've done for my kids, which they would think was mega, because I don't take them to anything. Right.

So I would think at some point. It's been quite good. Trips? Yeah. Abroad, like when you're doing gigs? Yes. So last year, I got invited to sing for Mardi Gras and Bondi Beach in Sydney. Like, brilliant.

And I'd been away a little bit already by that point in the year, February, and I took Jesse, who was then eight. And we were only there for four days, and they flew us there, business class. And so Jesse gets on the plane before we've been taken off, and he was pressing all the buttons. And he went, hold on a minute, was this expensive, these tickets? And I said, yes, Jesse, very. And he went, it's worth it. I was like, oh, no.

How is he going to? This is a long way down, isn't it, from like a business class flight to Australia? He was so happy. He was a great travelling companion. He was like Tom Hanks and big when he's pressing all the buttons in the car. Like, woo-hoo! Isn't it special when you've got five kids? You've got five boys and you can go away with one.

I love it. Isn't that amazing? Yeah. There's not enough time in the year, really, to take them all away. But I think as you get older and you aren't working non-stop, I took one of my kids away on their own for a week last. This year. Yeah, this year, in April, Holly, my oldest.

Yeah. And it was a joy. That is really nice. I actually think, because my kids are still quite little, that is actually one of the biggest privileges of having such amazing support because I've got brilliant support with people who help me look after the kids when I'm working. But it also means I can sign as do things with them one-on-one. And I actually think that is, that's invaluable, being able to do that if you've got, you know, lots of children.

What are you talking about? So, yes. So, yeah, the other seeds. I mean, yeah, my mom absolutely loves what she did. So she adored presenting Blue Peter. And Blue Peter was, it's very strange for me to even talk about it now because it's almost, I think of it like a sibling, which sounds really odd and maybe a little sad.

No, you shared your life with it. I did, but particularly that bit of my childhood because my mum was presenting the show while she was a single mother. So I would spend most of my time with her. I'd go to my dad every other weekend. And she finished the show when she was having my brother. So this chapter, it was like my, yeah, the sibling I had during that time when it was a lot of the time just me and her. And I think, yeah, I could see how much they love what they did.

I like the fact that it opened my eyes to having a job that wasn't a traditional job. So when the opportunity came to go on tour with my band, my parents, even though it was a slightly different world to theirs in music, that suited me too because it felt like my thing. But I also didn't have any sort of... dreamy world around it. I could see the sort of nuts and bolts of what I do. The reality of it. Reality, exactly. And I think that's a privilege too, because it had been around me so I could think in those terms. And I am aware that, you know, it's funny because when you're young and starting out, you don't want to think anything's been easier for you because it's hard

for everybody when you've got out. But looking back, I'm like, wow, I had so many aces in my pack in terms of, you know, growing up in London, a time when people from record companies, would go out and actually go and watch gigs and suddenly all these privileges are on my dogstep. Yeah, absolutely. And the fact that my, this is actually probably the biggest one, because my parents worked in a similar field, they never, and my family haven't, they never became my fans, which sounds like a really odd statement. No, that's interesting. But it can really shift things.

And they never were starstruck by any element of anything I got up to, which meant I had such a solid home base, such a grounding. Yes. They didn't, it was lovely if I'd enjoyed the things I was going up to, but really they always wanted to check in how was I feeling about emotionally, how was what was going on at home, how was my relationship at the time, was everything in order for, you know, could I pay my rent, all those sorts of things that was quite practical and emotionally led and not, you sold how many units you're going to this country?

That was at the end of the conversation. So that was a benefit too. It's so interesting because I had never thought about that that if you become famous, your parents sort of become fans and how nice it would be to have somebody, yes. Or at least bit starstruck the whole thing. Yeah. Or it's unfamiliar, you know.

They might not know what they're entitled to, they're entitled to help you. So those things can, those things help me for sure. And all the kind of things that I was saying about you at the beginning about being just down. to earth and normal I see you as kind of a humble, a humble superstar. Wow. No, but that's how I see you.

Like, you are really well known. Everybody knows who you are, but you are, you've got your feet on the ground. And now that makes real sense you say in that. I can completely understand that they would know exactly what you needed. Yeah, absolutely. Janet would know this is what I could have done with. Yeah. I'm going to let me give it to Sophie.

Yeah. And she's still in that role now. Is she? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm lucky. I do have a lot of people that give me lots of support. So nothing I do is happening on its own, really, as the support of my redirection, including Richard, of course. You are never too old to learn something new.

I used to be so terrified of tech, but I started using Adobe Express, which is the quick and easy, create anything app. And it's one of our sponsors, too. and I use it to tell my story my way. It's about impact. Havina? Yes. Did you mean to export this poster of Michael to such a large size? As I was saying, it's never been easier to bring your ideas to life.

Yes. She's checking these stickers that say ready to write, they're also for you two? Yes, those are for me. Merchandising is an important revenue stream. I work with Stephen Bartlett. You know, I'm an entrepreneur. Look, whatever your business side hustle or random, oh, I've got an idea moment is,

Adobe Express gives you everything that you need to design it, share it and make it real. So head to adobe.ly slash divina to get started. Did she really use the generative AI, did you and bigots and digits? She loves Adobe. I want to stay on being a mother because, you know, you then went on to become a mother and you were famous.

And then funnily enough, in 2021, you know, with Kitchen Disco, that happened again. I mean, you begin again and begin again and begin again. Well, I've often made. If Sophie, Ellis and Bexter had been three different people, we would have split up so long ago. We'd be on our like fourth, fifth reunion tour by now. Like Crosby, Stills and that. Sophie, Ellis and Bexter. Yeah.

I have had no opportunity to split up. No. For where I go. But it's amazing. I thought in lockdown, the really interesting thing was that the nation became broadcasters. Quite a few people were just starting their own thing. I remember thinking, wow, like no telly, what's going to happen? What are we going to do?

And Michael and I were split. So we weren't living together. And so he went off to live up in Hertfordshire and I was living in. Sussex. In fact, at that point, I was in Kent. So we were a long way from each other. But he obviously is a hair stylist and he did lives every day

telling people what to do with their hair. How to cut their hair, how to cut their children's hair. How do you colour your hair? How do you look after it? Giving people tips and hints because they couldn't get to the hairdresser. And you did something similar, like let off some steam.

Yeah. Do this with your kids. Yeah. Let's have a party together. But it was also a really wonderful insight into you and your relationship with your kids, your home. Like it was, there was so many things to get out there, but it was one of my favorite things about lockdown was you. Oh, dancing. Like it was just amazing.

But you didn't, I bet you didn't think that when you started it. No. Well, I actually finished the first one saying, I think that's. the end of my career. Really? Yes. Like literally. Oh, God, that's so funny.

Because I felt like maybe, I wasn't sure if we were reading the room, right? I knew what I felt like I needed. But, yes, I see what you're saying. I didn't know if, yeah. Are people really struggling and are they going to think how frivolous, you know? Oh, what? But it was the opposite. Yeah.

And actually it was Richard's idea to do the first one. He said, oh, because I was feeling really restless. discombobulated, missing people, missing music, performing. It was such a heavy time. And he said, why don't we live stream, like you do it, singing a party set? And I said, that is a crazy idea, but I haven't got anything else I'm doing. So yes, so we did the first one, and I sort of waited, you know, to see what the reaction was like that. Like, yeah, like, oh no, everybody's going to say, what are you doing?

But then all these lovely, lovely messages were coming. And I thought, oh, this is actually okay. It's okay. And it's funny because obviously I do sing for a living. But the kitchen disco was very much about my relationship with music and people. It wasn't really about the day job at all. It was about needing to invite people over, as you say, that catharsis, a little bit of escape. Just change the tone just for a minute, just 20 minutes, half.

an hour of being a bit silly, getting together. I would have, you know, my friends and family I knew were watching so they could see the kids. You know, my youngest was a baby, it was one. So the grandparents could all see the grandbabies and what they were up to that week. And see them happy. See them happy. See us being silly. And it really worked.

I liken it to, it was like having a non-alcoholic drink when that bit where your brain reads it as giving you a bit of an upper. even though really we hadn't seen anyone, we hadn't gone anywhere, there had been no party, there had been no gig. I would tidy up the house afterwards and I'd half expect to find remnants of people. Yes. Yeah, it was a very strange time, but it was so pure. I would cry all the time as well. Like if I sang a song that was a bit more sad, I would cry because all my emotions were so close to the surface all the time.

Like everybody. Very just felt quite sort of unarmored, I think. Do you know for me it's quite nice to hear you say that because I've met quite a lot of people who loved lockdown Yeah me too And who loved the isolation and the I cried all the time Yeah I found it really tough

I found it cruel I found the cruelty of thinking Seeing people you love might mean They get very very sick and they might die That was so heavy to me But you know Everybody had their own stories of what was happening and some people have experienced extraordinary pain as well.

So whilst I did lose my stepdad during that time, which was awful, at least we were allowed to have a funeral together when we did. And we're all, none of us were travelling, we were all together, we could support one another. So I'm actually grateful to us having that time together as well. But yeah, you know, if people found out good aspects, I'm really happy about that. And of course, we found some good aspects too. I loved being with the kids all that time. Yes. But I haven't lost sight.

I didn't need a global pandemic to teach me what mattered to me. I already knew that. So it's just a matter of us getting through it, really. Richard's an amazing support to you, isn't it? He's like, yeah, he really is incredible. We just had our 20th wedding anniversary. So I guess now we can start talking about it and a bit more of a like, we have been married like a properly long time.

That is a properly like. No. Can I just tell us, how old were you when you met? I think I was just 22, because when we first met, he was auditioning to be in my band. So I walked into a rehearsal room and met him there. And the first thing I said to him was nice amp, which I find baffling to this day. I never complimented an amp in my life. Did you say it and go? So nice about it.

What was I saying? Well, no, because I didn't remember. But we were both in relationships at the time. Right. It was just, oh, this is Richard. And I just went, nice sound. I don't know. It must have been a nice colour or something.

I'm that superficial. But, yeah, he has a neon sign of it in his studio now. What, nice sound? Nice am. Oh, I love that. But, um, so wait. So you were both going out with other people. Um, he auditioned for your band.

Did he get in? He did get in. Yes. Yes. So that's why we end up spending more time together. And I have to say, I was, always quite cynical when people talked about being friends with someone they later became involved with romantically. I was like, how can that happen? But without something

happening because you were, I just understand that. I would just meet them and it'd be like, I was the same. Really? Yes, but I was friends with Michael for 20 years. I didn't realize that long. Yeah. That's extraordinary. I totally get that. Yes. I think it's very helpful to be friends with somebody. Me too. It sets up a really healthy dynamic. And it means you like each other. Yes. You actually really like each other because, as you know, with, you know, busy life and work, life, family life, there's lots of time when you're just getting by. And it's not about the big, broad, romantic gestures.

It's just working alongside someone on a lot of things and logistics and quick forms a day. And if you actually have got a good foundation of that sort of, yeah, mutual, like and respect and boundaries that you don't cross within that. I think it sets you up really well for a much more happy relationship, I think. I mean, 22 and then to go on to have a 20-year relationship, it is an incredibly young age to stay in a relationship that both of you have worked at and kept healthy. When did you know that, okay, this is serious? Well, you're going to find this really funny,

but I think it's when we found it we were having a baby probably. Was that a shock to both of you? Yes, but in a happy way. So we started going out. Actually, you know what, that's not quite true. I think probably from the time we had our first date. Or maybe even from when we were really good friends and I realized, oh, if I've got something I want to share,

it's rich that I want to share it with you. And so when we went on our first date, we kept it really secret from our friends and family. Because even though by then we were both out of our relationships, we had been working together and we didn't want people thinking, oh, you know, comments. Anyway, so we kept it quiet, had a date. It was really lovely. And then, yeah, we'd been going out. I think we probably had a couple more dates. Been going out about six weeks and then I realized I'm pregnant. Wait, hold my hand again.

That's quite mega, isn't it? It's quite, yes, it is. Well, especially because Sonny, our oldest boy, he's just turned 20. was born two months early. So by the time he was born, we'd been dating for eight months, which is almost mathematically improper. Absolutely mad, isn't it? I mean, there was so much drama.

There was so much going on all the time. Because I was born of a mother who had preeclampsia, and it's a very frightening prospect when that happens. Can you just talk me through what that was like for you? Yeah. I was 24 when I was pregnant and everything was going along fairly textbook at that point and I just didn't feel that great in myself actually. I started to feel like I didn't look quite right. I didn't want to see people. I was getting all the things people, you know,

swollen ankles, but I was like, this doesn't write headaches. And I thought, oh no, I'm just really bad at being pregnant. I've always wanted a baby. I'd love the idea of being a mum and I'm really bad pregnant person. Do you know what's quite frightening as well as, as a 24-year-old, you would probably extremely fit and, well, extremely kind of youthful, your body was youthful and ready for anything. So you probably would have let that go for a bit longer than somebody else normally would have done.

Definitely. I didn't, we also got no comparison. And as I was very low risk. So as a midwife-led pregnancy, I'd just pop in every once in a while, had my 20-week scan. I'm like, okay, we'll probably see you towards the end kind of thing. And I hadn't been feeling great. Went for a checkup.

And the midwife said, oh, your blood pressure is a bit high. This was on a Friday. She said, come back on Monday. We'll just check it again. Take these pills over the weekend. And that weekend, I went out actually to her friends, her baby's christening. And her mother-in-law said, you don't look well. And I wanted to hug her.

I was like, finally, someone has said, I know you're right. And the night before I went back for the check-up, I was reading. book all about pregnancy and I got to this bit and it had a small bit about preeclampsia and I can remember Richard was rehearsing a gig next to the next to room and I read it and I started crying and I was like that is more difficult. So I popped in the next day and they said you're not going anywhere, you're not going home, you're not packing a bag, you are being taken straight to a hospital that has a neonatal unit because you'll be having your baby in days, not weeks.

And I was like 31 weeks pregnant and I thought, oh, I think I was a bit in denial to be honest. I remember taking, taking around the unit, seeing where our baby would be and thinking, they're saying all this, but it's not really going to be the case. And yeah, I had Sunny on Friday that week. Wow. Yeah. And how were you after? Because that's...

I was just, I think I was just really besotted with Sunny. I don't remember, I don't remember feeling bad. I think I was just immediately, yeah, obsessed with him, really. That's all I can really remember. Was it Kit next? Yes. So were you nervous when you... got pregnant with Kit.

No, I don't know. It's quite a long time later, wasn't it? It was nearly five years. I felt much better in myself. Good. I was a bit healthier, I think. But I had him even earlier, and he was even smaller. So, Sonny had weighed £3.8.

And Kit was born nine weeks early, weighing £2.6. He was a very tiny baby. So what's happened with his... I got pre-peramps again, but it just presented. I started doing really. So I didn't have the swelling. But my blood pressure was, yeah, again, I was supposed to go for a gig abroad and my consultant said, come and see me,

you'll need a letter from me and then you can fly. And I went to get to the letter. She checked me and she said, no way. You're not flying anywhere. So I had him, yeah, that Saturday, I think. So you had preeclampsia twice. Yeah. Yeah. And I go back and I'm like, it's quite a while that I just went, okay, next time. Yeah. Well, that's exactly what I was going to say to you. Turnal optimist over here. So you weren't nervous the third time you got pregnant? I don't know why not, but though I wasn't really, I think I just said, is this likely to happen again? And it was, no, it's still, you know, just because it's happened twice, you actually are not expected to have it again.

So I thought that's good enough odds for me. And actually I did have my third full term, yeah, Ray or chubby. How is that? How much did he weigh? Nearly eight pounds, more than the other two put together. and I just couldn't believe I could have him straight away in my arms because the other two I couldn't even hold them. Oh, wow, was that amazing.

It was amazing. And I mean, you know, we'd been through a lot by then, a lot of medical things. Sonia had had meningitis when he was four months. Kit had had collapsed lungs and was on a ventilator for a week. There were loads of things. So to have this baby that didn't need any intervention that was just chubby, made of circles, slept the first night with me, took him home. I was like, this is amazing.

I do think I do get quite a high from when I've had a baby. Oh, I feel like I've done something so clever. You have. So that's why five times in, I was like, but you have. Give me the happy hormones. I mean, this is, I've always said after each of my babies, I wanted to go and Lion King in the garden. You know, like stand, barefoot in the grass, Earth Mother,

you know, hold the baby up and go, look. Yeah. And then you look around, you're like, is this what all people who have babies have done? This is amazing. But I think it is, I always, I always feel a bit sad for guys that they don't get to experience that. But it's such a gift we're given. Yeah. Like, I had three fairly straightforward births, so I think for me it was a gift.

Because you went through labour at birth, right? have had as you had. I've never had labour. I've had to have all of my babies, Zerian. So that's something that I think for a little minute I felt quite weird about. I just worried. It's like missing punctuation. It's like, well, I was supposed to, something's supposed to happen between. Yeah, I guess like what I mean is creating a life, not necessarily the thing of birth. It's making. I know. A living, breathing. Yes. Being. And when they're about in your belly. Four or five months and all they've had is, you know, if you're feeding them, all you've had is, you've fed, You've made every bit of them.

It feels incredible, doesn't it? Yeah, it's, it's miraculous. It is miraculous. And the other thing, I know this is obvious to everybody else, but is that they are half you and half their dad. Yes. And what a magical thing that is. I know.

That they are made of both of you. I know. And yet they are their own person. And each of them are different. Each of them are different. You've had five. Yeah. And I bet they're all completely different with their own personalities.

Of course. Which is also incredible. I always think I've got three children from the same two parents. They're so different. I know. How funny is that? And their perception of family will be different. Yeah.

Their relationship with you is different. Yeah. It is crazy. I mean, birth order definitely plays a part, doesn't it, in people as well. I'm often asking people, where are you in the running order? Because I'm fascinated by all of that. I heard something about. amazing the other day when somebody said, you know, middle child syndrome, first child syndrome,

but whoever is born in whatever order in the family, they will think that they've got it the hardest because of their position in the family. And it's a bit like you saying famous or not famous, you know, there'll be something down the line somewhere that you'll have to, a bridge you'll have to cross in order to get to where you want to get to. And yeah, I love that idea. of everybody has problems. Life isn't perfect. Happiness is something to learn, strive for, learn from your mistakes, get to.

It's a journey, not a given. And I would say, and I'm sure this is the same in your house. When you mentioned, you know, the public eye element, that doesn't really have a seat at the table when we're at home. No. It's not a conversation we're having. So it's sort of in the peripheral, really. But it's not like a, you know, I'm not like,

K kids Who did the most Googling of Mommy today? Can you imagine? Have you all done your Instagram likes for my post today? Great.

Which of your school friends What songs on my new album Do your friends like? Do you remember I ask you to tell me? Can you get them to do those TikTok dances for me? Here's a little goody bag of all the new

of the new album for everybody. Have you got your baseball cap on? No, no. Wear your lanyard on top of your school uniform. Actually, And I'm thinking I'm missing a trick. There are five little sandwich boards out there walking around. Oh my God.

Sandwich boards, yes. Different sizes, obviously. Six year old can have a small one. There's so much I want to unpick with you. But I think there's a couple of things that I think straight away from us just having that conversation. The first one is slightly protecting your children from the public eye. So from the press. Yes.

How did you do that? Still ongoing, isn't it? Because... keeping them private or safe? Yes. And look, it is hard because even if we, they're growing up in a different time, so having an online presence, inviting,

you don't know who's looking at things as part of their world too anyway, regardless. But yes, everybody's, look, it's incredibly bespoke. I don't make any judgment about what people feel and they want to share. It's a completely your own thing. Some people have already shared more than they would ever want to and vice versa.

but I think from my point of view, I sort of go in my gut. Yes. And I think when my eldest was sort of hitting teenagers, I thought, oh, you know, how do you feel about being on things? He said, it's fine. And actually now I've kind of gone back on that. And I probably feature them less than I ever did, actually. Because, yeah, I do feel very protective. And also, they don't know who they're going to be here or what is people.

Yes. Yes. Yes. And all of mine are different. I don't know about if yours are like that but my middle one was like I'm going public with my Instagram this minute I can

and then my oldest and my youngest don't. My youngest is like don't post anything of me ever which I totally respect so I would never do that anyway and my eldest I would always ask

so it sounds a bit like what you do really it's like a kind of tailor made to each Definitely. And also my person, I've only got yours are young fair as well. Yeah. There's 18 marks. So yeah. There's like 21, 16, 13, 9 and 6. So. And you learn as you go.

Definitely. And also, you know, our social relationship with online as chef did too. So I think if I've done things that now I wouldn't, I'm quite forgiving of myself because you always, I do trust that. Well, you've got to learn, right? Yes, exactly. Yeah. And the other thing that I think is quite funny is that far from it being online or through being famous, I am much more embarrassing just as myself in daily life than I am in any other way. What's it like having you as a mother for your boys and how embarrassing are you?

Well, yeah, it's definitely a muscle I like to flex. Let's put it that way. But it's just so fun. It is so good, isn't it? And especially with boys. Yeah. Boys are like, boys are like even more embarrassed.

I didn't know, though. My 21-year-old if he was here, Sonny, he'd be like, he'd be going. Yeah, whatever. And he'd be like, you really don't. Now he is. He doesn't even, he finds it annoying when people even ask if I embarrass him because he's like,

you really don't embarrass me. And actually. Okay, can I just do something very quickly? Yeah. Sorry, Sonny. Carry on. How embarrassing are you yet, tell me. Everything.

And actually I will ask him if I'm about to do something like, is this okay sometimes? But... Like what, though? Well, like with the album title, Peri Manor Pop, I was like, is that okay with you if I'm calling my album that? Oh, yes. Okay. So I have asked Chester and the girls if things I've done are okay. Yeah.

I had a coil fitted on television. Did you? For a pill documentary. Okay. To try and show women that it wasn't as bad as they thought it. Well, actually, I think... I'm a big believe in. Context is everything.

Yeah. And, I mean, my first thought when you said it was actually probably where the camera wasn't. It was a step too far. I was probably thinking the camera was probably talking to you. Yeah. Well, a move ahead straight on my face. Yeah, exactly. And then from behind me, focusing on Guy Ney with two knees like that on either side with a little thing over.

How's it going? You know. But Richard, I want to go back. Yeah. Richard, because you were talking about how brilliantly supportive he is. Yes. So you got pregnant quite quickly Very quickly

And you were saying You know kind of as a joke But you did know him before You got pregnant I knew he was a good man as well I didn't know that I really did That's still early doors to get pregnant

And you and you were quite young How did you feel in that moment Well I spoke to my mum of course And she gave advice to me that actually worked for Richard as well. She said it might not be the right time and it might not be the right man

but it's the right baby. And that allowed us to acknowledge we were going to be parents to whoever was coming but also give ourselves space to still be dating. He didn't move in until two weeks before Sunny was born. Can I just say that is so wise of Janet.

She is really wise. Honestly there's loads of good stuff. What an amazing thing to say to let You guys. Yes, permission. Yes. Permission is so important when things are going like this. There's loads of good advice.

Sometimes when I'm in a quandary, she'll say you are working away towards making a decision and sooner or later you'll know what it is. Just things like that that just take the pressure off because, yeah, I think from the way I'm wired, being able to give myself patience is something I have to be quite conscious about. Some people are so good at that, but that's not my skill set. I can be a bit like, a bit flappy. So yeah, that was really helpful. And so we did.

And actually, by the time we got to Christmas of that year, so, you know, been going out, say, three months, I think it was, three or four months. I was already, I knew I was in it, really. I was like, this is a good relationship. But it was the first time I'd gone out with someone kind. It's such an underrated quality, just someone who's nice to you and supportive. And if I made a mistake, wouldn't tell me off about it. it or make me feel stupid.

Yes. You know, I think I hadn't really had a lot of that. Isn't that amazing? And I mean, how lucky for you to meet somebody at 23, 24 who is that person? Exactly. Just what's the best, you know, I think, you know, wants to lift you up and celebrate. A cheerleader. We're always talking about that, aren't you?

Yes, absolutely. And I've got so many amazing girlfriends and I'm like, they deserve that, you know? someone just going, oh, she's amazing, you know. I think it's interesting how many men find friends like yours or, you know, successful or strong women intimidating. Yeah, yes, for sure. And I definitely had experience of relationships like that where it was about keeping you quite small and in a little space, kept little little. But Richard was successful in his own right. Yeah, and also worked really hard.

You know, he was, yes, so that time, he was in my band as a session musician, but also working on lots of other projects and actually gave me a CD with the feelings first. Did he? Again, when we, I think before we've been going out a month. And I remember getting the CD and putting it in the CD player, younger people have to understand what they is. And I thought, oh, God, it's going to be awful, isn't it probably? Because I was like, you know what I mean? People say they're in a band.

No, it is. Oh, no. It's really difficult, isn't it? When you're with somebody and you love them and you think, please, please, let me like this. Yeah, please. I mean, the feeling, brilliant, brilliant. Yes, and that had on its own and the world and love it when you call, all these songs. I was like, oh, I love this.

So that album particularly became the soundtrack of like the beginning of our dating and sunny being born and everything. Wow. Yeah, really sweet. And, I mean, let's talk about you being together for 20 years because that is something to celebrate. I mean, in today's day and age, it's a massive achievement. How have you done that? Well, wary of sounding smug, because, you know, still who wants to listen to that. But I do think we support each other well.

Would you say you're a team? Yeah, we are. I mean, I don't use that word necessarily. Why not? Sounds a bit sporty. What would I say? I've probably got some weird visual analogy like that. But actually I was talking to one of my kids about it last night

because he's 16 and talking about what he wants to do when he's older and he's quite quitely ambitious for himself, which is nice. And he's saying, oh, I'm good at these things, but I'm really not good at these things. And I said, you don't need to worry. Part of finding, getting yourself into a good space is about understanding with your strengths and also knowing where you need the support. And then finding really brilliant people where that's where they fly. I said, look at Daddy and I.

There's things we do. I'll do this thing. He's better at that. And we actually are quite yin'yang in lots of aspects. And I think that has really given us a lot. And actually I actually want to acknowledge that. Can I just say something? Your mum would be so proud of that bit of advice.

That sounded so like something your mum would have said to you. That's really sweet. No, I was just thinking, wow. your mom's going to watch that and go, I did that. Oh, that's amazing. I'd love to be good at giving advice like that. You just did. That's what I talked about.

Like you are that. Sophie, you are that person. Oh, that's lovely. She's given that to you. There is no better compliment. Oh my God, that is such a beautiful thing to say to your son. Wow. Thank you.

That's nice. I like parenting as they get older as well. Oh, do you? I think I'm better at it than the little kid years. I love, I mean, my youngest is six, he's an amazing company. But I think when they're really small, there's aspects of it where you feel like you lose your personality a little bit. Yes. But when they get older and you can navigate things and explore things together and talk things through.

I love all that. I teach you so much. I like that. Not, not, I can't sleep. Okay, come and sit on the bed. What's bothering you? Like, let's talk it through. I like all of that.

Yeah. I feel like with children, the best thing that you can do is give them wings to fly away. Oh, yeah. At the same time when they fly away, they're like, please fly back. But they do. Please keep coming back. I mean, look, I'm literally going on holiday this summer with my brother, my sister, her husband, my mom, my sister's new baby, Albert. All of our kids and friends with the kids, like, we all, we do flock together.

don't worry I do I really believe in that if you give people the freedom to go and explore they want to come back because they're not being held there and also I think that means you keep in step with your kids it's very easy isn't it when you don't do that to kind of crystallize them like oh when you were little or when you were that age I mean that's tough a whole round place yeah yeah because you evolve but you've got to keep seeing them and where they're at now and And I think that's the same. Actually, probably goes back to my relationship with Richard as well. We've always been good at sometimes making us the priority as well and having time together

to playing, to have fun. Because otherwise, you're resting on hoping that when the time comes, you have time together, it's all still fine, thank you. Whereas if we keep in tandem, we're kind of living in the present tense all the time. But I think that's really important. What, I mean, what was fascinating, I think, about lockdown that you just did kitchen discos to keep yourself sane and us. It helped us.

You thought, I don't know if it's going to help, but I just, I'm doing this for us. But then out of that came, wonderful things for you. So many wonderful things. Yeah. What were those things? Well, I think the biggest thing, really, was probably, I felt as in love as ever with music and with what I do. I think it gave me a better understanding of that as well, the industry that goes along with it.

I now can see that every time I book a gig, all the people that are working with me, you know, there's economy, there's people coming out and doing their thing and being engaged in something. I love that feeling. I'll use the word team there. And yeah, singing to people again and the actual appreciation of everyone that leaves wherever they were coming. from to come and spend an evening with me. If they're coming to the gigs, I don't take any of it for granted anyway, but it's even more precious now.

I can understand that relationship better. Why don't it even more precious now? I think just because when it all stopped, I realized that sometimes when you're in the doing, you know, you're just caught up with everybody else is doing things as well. So you feel like, well, of course, you know, they might be playing my gig or they're another gig. Whereas now it's like, now I can see that they've made a decision to come to see my show. So I wanted to be the best, they wanted to want them to leave feeling they made the right decision.

Because I felt like I've always loved most performers that are degenerate. They want you to feel what they feel. And that for me is what the discos, the kitchen discos gave me. Yeah. It was the final piece of the puzzle in losing my inhibitions and worry about who I was and what I was supposed to look like. I thought I was a pop star or if I was a performer or what I was supposed to have achieved. I could just be myself. And the safety in that means that you're free to be so generous in that space.

And that is a privilege. People have their guard up, maybe haven't been given as much kindness. You don't do it on your own. You do it because of people around you give you that nurture. And so because of that, when I'm on stage, I want everybody to freak. I want to rake everybody in. I feel like it's almost like a maternal feeling, actually. But I've been fortunate because I've been, that's been encouraged by the good people around me.

Like, it sounds like a weird comment, but I know my funeral is going to be awesome. I've got so many good people in my life. Honestly, you're going to want to get yourself there. It's going to be incredible. So many lovely people. I'm really hoping that I die before you. You don't want to miss it. But I'll try and stick around.

Just wait a little bit. I'll try and stick around now. What a peri menopopop. I want to talk about that. I love that title so much. That is, thank you. Well, I sent you a text when I, just before I named it, saying thank you, because I felt like the conversations we'd had had helped me roadmap a little bit better

for this part of my life. And, you know, when you have a project and you don't really know why you're doing it until you get a bit further in. And so for me, there's the podcast, was that, so the conversations I was having for that, I was like, what is the motivation? And I think a lot of it is getting this wisdom and this reassurance from other women about how we can all be feeling a lot, you know, that watch which unites us rather than that which divides.

You know, that a feeling of solidarity. And that was making me feel more comfortable, more accepting myself, bolder. And so, yeah, with Perriamana Pop, I was like, I thought, I think Davina might think this is okay. So I sent you a text saying, thank you. Yeah. I mean, I really extra, extra think it's okay. Because I think it's so, well, first of all, it's funny. Yes.

And I think at this phase of our lives, it is one of those hilarious things my granny always used to say was, if you don't laugh, you cry. Yes. So it's important. It is funny things happen. Yeah, for sure. And so I like the name of it because it's slightly kind of brightens and makes it less. Something might be a bit gloomy or shrouded in mystery. Yes.

Yes, exactly that. And how, I mean, I think I can see and feel how you're finding it, but how are you finding this phase of your life? And what's the flavour of this album? So the album is where it all started because I don't name albums and take it. until they're nearly done because I need to sort of chip away a little bit. What am I working on here? Well, how's it coming together? And I was making this record.

I always knew I was going to make a disco dance record again for this album. And so with what happened with Modering on the Dance for last year, I just gave this big gust of wind and the sails of, you know, the little boat that is albumate. That's such a lovely visual. You see me now? There's walking the plank. There's a boat. Yeah, no. It's really nice.

permanently the little sailor. Visuals to go with a feeling are so important. Well, that's what lyrics have to do, isn't it? Yeah. They sort of create little pictures. Yeah. So I was feeling almost giddy, I think, last year. Because it was so exciting.

It was like this adrenaline. I was running on adrenaline a lot of the year. So when I was in the studio, I was working with some familiar faces, people I loved that I worked with back in my first few albums. and then a lovely introduction to lots of new people who are really excellent within pop world and amazing producers and songwriters. So I was just taking that giddiness and pouring it into songs.

So it's very positive record. It's very pop. It felt like it felt like very me, the little world I was creating with it. And then I thought one of my girlfriend, Hannah, is a songwriter with me and a couple of the things. And I said to her, we've worked together a long time. And I said, I kind of want a title for the album that really sums up. The age I'm at and being sort of not afraid to bring it into the equation. I'm not trying to look to anyone.

I'm not, you know, going back to that time. It's taking that but bringing it to where I am now. And she, I think, said, oh, Perryman and Popper is a joke. And it sort of stayed in my head for a while and I was like, I wonder if I could just do it. And I got to this year and I was, the pressure was coming to name it. And I just was like, it's that. It's always been that. I just want to say I'm going to kind of finish, I think, on this note.

But I was just sitting there clutching my invisible pearls. Thinking, I really fucking love you. Like, I have enjoyed this so much. You've taught me a lot. I've got to know you better and I like you. even more, which I wasn't sure that would be possible. And I can't wait for Peri Menopop. Yay.

I am really... You'll get one of the first, hot off the press. Yes. Hot off the press. Yeah. How can I play it? The vinyl's burning my fingers. Get the needle on it. I'm really excited.

What's your favourite track on the album just before we go? One. Just one. Just one. Yeah. Actually, there's one called Layers, which is about a relationship. with all the, I'm a bit obsessed with layers.

I like, I mean, I talk about storytelling. So, yeah. Visuals. It's that nice feeling when you've, you've got, you've wrecked up experience. So, yeah, that's some guy, I think. Oh, that's you, right? Yes, exactly. Yes.

And I love it so much. Yeah. And actually, I first met you when I was 16 doing work experience at MTV. So we have layers too, many layers. You're with your dog. God. And I was like, so. Rosie.

Yes, Rosie. Oh, I loved Rosie. Yeah, good dog. Yeah, Varro's like, oh my God, that's just blown my mind. Let's talk groceries, specifically your groceries. With Instacart, you want your groceries just the way you like them, right? Well, the Instacard app lets you do just that. They have a new preference picker that lets you pick how ripe or unripe you want your bananas.

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