Begin Again with Davina McCall - The Cancer Warnings Signs I Ignored! I Wasn’t Healthy. The Dangerous Truth About Alcohol. Julia Bradbury.

Episode Date: January 2, 2025

In this episode of Begin Again, Davina is joined by Julia Bradbury, broadcaster and passionate advocate for health and wellness. Julia opens up about her breast cancer diagnosis, sharing how the experience reshaped her approach to life and health. Follow me here: www.instagram.com/beginagain https://www.tiktok.com/@beginagainpod  (00:00) Intro (01:28) Mind, Body, and Mindfulness (02:53) How Meditation Can Transform Your Life (08:26) Tips to Prevent Health Issues Before They Start (12:38) Julia's Breast Cancer Story (17:07) The Moment Julia Learned About Her Cancer (23:22) How Cancer Ended Up Saving Julia's Life (25:13) The Shocking Truth About Sugar and Your Health (30:17) Fiverr Ad (31:02) ZOE Ad (32:28) How to Tell Loved Ones About a Cancer Diagnosis (38:08) The Link Between Stress and Sugar: What You Need to Know (41:25) What Remission Really Feels Like (42:45) Does Cancer Take Over Your Entire Life? (44:05) Lifestyle Changes That Make a Difference (47:41) Julia's Journey With Alcohol (51:07) Is Everything Fun Really Bad for You? (52:39) Key Takeaways Sponsored by: Fiverr - https://fvrr.co/davina ZOE - https://zoe.com and use code DAVINA10 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Cancer saved my life. I mean, now I know every type of cancer is different. Every type of breast cancer is different. And I've now learned so much. And the only thing that I can say with certainty is, something happened. I found a lump. I ended up having a mammogram and an ultrasound.

And as he was doing the ultrasound, he looked at me and he went, there's something I don't like. It's the moment you feel the most vulnerable. And it's also the moment that you learn nothing. You know, I'm a journalist. I can find out answers. I can get to people.

But at that moment, You are lost. You're just, oh my God, I've got cancer. It's prevention, isn't it? It's like, don't let yourself get super sick before you make these changes. Tell me about stress and sugar. Your immune system doesn't understand this onslaught of refined foods. The immune system isn't working properly.

You're clogging up your liver and other bits of yourself. You're basically... What would you say to someone who goes, I really love the idea of meditation? but I just haven't got the time. There is never enough time to do everything. What you have to do is sacrifice something to make way for something else.

And when it comes to your health, if you do not make the time, you will... Julia, it's so special for me to be sat here with you talking to you because I feel like we've been together on our television journey. How much of a believer are you? Because I feel like you might be in what you've been. Believe to be true has an enormous impact on what is true of your body. I genuinely believe that what we tell ourselves and how we feed our brain with information is incredibly impactful.

I think it makes a massive difference. In the last few years, I've got into meditation and mindfulness and quietening myself, which I never did before. But I've always been into this positivity. And in fact, my mum gave me. me a set of 12 cassettes. Remember those? Yes. Not VHS is even, cassettes that you played.

And I've still got them. I keep them. And they are the 12 steps to positivity, to positive thinking. I was listening to those when I was 11. So I really do believe. And I think if people feel this is a bit woo-woo, what I would say to you is if you've ever been heartbroken or if you've ever looked at your baby for the first time,

or a baby or somebody's baby or fallen in love, you will get a feeling in your throat and you'll get a feeling in your tummy and you'll get a feeling in your heart. Sometimes it's heartbreak, sometimes it's just joy. That's real. That's happening to you.

So if you can create that, it's a physiological thing. If that can happen in your body, I believe you can generate it yourself. You just touched on meditation and I'm hearing more and more about how meditation can be connected to good health. What would you say to someone

a little bit like me, who goes, I've really loved the idea of meditation, but I just haven't got the time. Yeah, I mean, it's the age old response to any sort of self-care. I haven't got time. I'm a busy mum. I've got a career. I've got an abusive relationship to handle. I'm busy at work. I just haven't got time.

And I discussed this at length with Oliver Berkman, who's written a brilliant book called 4,000 weeks, which I recommend. Oh. I got the poster where you cross off each week. It's very sobering and rather brilliant. It is. And for people who aren't familiar with it, thank you. If we're lucky, if we're fortunate, we've got 4,000 weeks on planet Earth. If we live a healthy, full life.

And then when you start to mark that down, it's not very much. So, for example, as a way of getting that scale in perspective, my parents, as I've said, who I love very much, are in their 80s. They're not going to be here in 20 Christmases. No. There is never enough time to do everything. We will never clear the email inbox. We will never do the to-do list.

We will never in a given day get everything we wanted to get done. We won't. What you have to do is sacrifice something to make way for something else. There has to be a sacrifice to make way for it. And when it comes to your health, if you do not make the time to take care of your health, you will be forced to make the time to take care of illness. At some stage, it comes. And how much longer will that take?

Days off work, colleagues, family, recovery, going through operations, whatever it might be, that is expensive time. And you have to make the time for self-care. You have to make the time for your health. It's that old cliche of the oxygen mask coming down for, from the airplane and you're with your whole family. You've got to get it on yourself first. Otherwise, you can't take care of your family or your friends.

If you don't look after yourself, if you don't give yourself that time. So what I would say, and we round about it in a roundabout way, this is what Oliver and I came to the conclusion was. Give yourself five minutes. Don't tell me you haven't got five minutes. No, I've got five minutes. So give yourself that five minutes, first of all, and go, I can do five minutes. And set yourself that time.

And what will happen, because it's happened to me, I suspect we're quite similar. I find it very hard to calm the ship out. I'm rolling. You know, I'm like here now. I can feel your energy. Yeah. I'm there. It's so important to be able to steady yourself and calm yourself down.

And I never really understood the value of that to be able to. I now, I can do 20 minutes to be in the morning. Do you do it every morning? I do it every morning. And that's my promise to myself. Now, sometimes I don't have 20 minutes. So I will do five. But it's a habit that I will not not do.

It's my non-negotiable. What does it give you? It gives me calmness. From a physical point of view, it's reducing my cortisol levels. It is steadying me before the onslaught of the day's activity. I do something in the morning where I get the morning lighting my eyes. I open my window sill and I sit on my windowsill outside my bathroom. I can't fall down.

Come rain or shine. Come rain or shine. I've got one of those. dry rogue things if it's raining and I pull it up and I sit there. And I look at nature because we all need nature. That's how we've evolved. Every human being on planet Earth needs nature. We need daylight. We need that in our lives. We need to move. All of these things are essentials. I look at nature. I take in a few breaths. I just take the calmness in and then I start my breath work. And I get the daylight into my eyes. Like Julia, you're freaking me out now. So you've got sitting

outside. How long do you sit outside? 20 minutes if I can. So 20, but how early are you getting up if you're doing 20 minutes meditation? Depends what my day is. 20 minutes sitting on windowsill and breath work. I'm stacking. You can do it all in 20 minutes. So you can.

And then if you're lucky and you've got a bit of extra time, you go, I'm going to do an extra 10 minutes of breathwork. Okay. Or I'm going to. And your breathwork can be your meditation. What I would say to people of meditation is meditation takes many forms. And there are some people who, I've got family members who suffer from anxiety. there are certain types of meditation that wouldn't suit them because it's like a countdown and that could make you more anxious. So breathwork, mantras, five, four, three, two, one countdown where you look at five things and then you listen to four things and then you feel three things.

That's a good one. There are all sorts of different types of meditation. And what I do is by getting the morning light first thing, here's the sciencey bit. The morning light goes into your eyes and it talks to a problem. part of your brain called the S-E-N, which I think is the supercharismatic nuclei. And then that delivers signals to your whole body to say, it's time to wake up, guys, and let's get those hormones flowing, let's get the serotonin, melatonin. What are we doing with melatonin now?

Because we're awake, we're not asleep. It's incredible. This is a biological chemical process that happens. And that morning light sets everything off. And it even helps you sleep better at night because it's your, it's your, you're clocking in. It's like the timestamp. We touched on this earlier, but it's, it would be a shame. And I want to touch on everything to do with your breast cancer, if that's okay.

In a moment. But this idea of don't let that be the thing that makes you make these lifestyle changes, prevent, well, give yourself the best chances of not triggering something happening in your body by doing these quite. simple things for yourself. I mean, even just reading bits of your book and stuff, and I've decided to make some massive lifestyle changes of my own. Some of them I'm already doing, but some stop, well, we'll talk about sugar in a minute, but it's prevention, isn't it? It's like, don't let it be, don't let yourself get super sick before you make these changes. Yeah. And a lot of the changes are simple and our tweaks, and a lot of them are hard. And that's the tricky thing.

It is sometimes it's easier if somebody says, here's a pill, this is going to get your blood pressure down. Or here's a pill to help with your cancer or whatever it might be. Or a Zempick is a good example at the moment. Here's something that can help with your weight loss and it's a super quick way of doing it. And of course that in some instances is easy. And some people don't want to do the other things that you need because you do have to have a mindset that's ready for change. And you do have to want to do it. And there is the conundrum because the cancer is the thing that triggered it.

in me. That's when I went, oh my gosh, I want to be here for as long as possible for my children, for my partner, for me. And this thing's frightened me. So I'm going to do everything I can to reduce my risk of reoccurrence. If you don't think there's anything wrong with you, or, and if you're motoring along, you might be a little bit overweight and you might be fine with that. It might not be hindering your life in any way. You might have super high cholesterol. Your blood pressure might be really high. You might eat lots of sugar. And you're fine because you don't get fat. It doesn't do what it does to other people. You might think you're fine. But now there are things that you can check and it's pretty easy. There's something called metabolic health.

There are five markers of metabolic health. You can go to your GP tomorrow and you can say, can we find out if I'm metabolically healthy? And they will test your blood pressure and your triglycerides and HDL cholesterol. And they will look at your waist to hip measurement. And there's a fifth one that I can't remember. But there's pretty standard. And if two of those things are not in check, you're metabolically unhealthy. Yeah, I mean, I was thinking about the three walks a day, you know, would somebody find that difficult? But actually, if you've got like a commute anywhere,

you could always park up a way away from your office and do a 15, 20 minute walk into the office, at lunchtime, eat something, and then go for a walk with your lunch hour. And then at the end, you've got to walk back to your car. So, you know, you could kind of work in. You can build these things. Well, a friend and I were talking about this yesterday. She's a high-level exec at a television company.

And she says, I do what you say now. I move off to every time I've eaten. She even said, actually, it's helped me at night because I jump up to clear the dishes first because I'm thinking, I'm moving. So you can, I would say, if you said, Julia, what would your number one choice be? It would be a get up and walk.

Do it for 10 minutes if you can. If two minutes is all you can do, do it. If you can't get outside, I want you to be outside as much as possible every day. We spend more than 90% of our days inside. That's not I would build. What's the stat about kids and people in prison? Oh, um, uh,

Inmates spend more time outside than children these days. They have a required, their limit, you know, what they have to be outside for is they're spending more time outside than most of the younger generation, which is frightening. Yeah. And, I mean, kids and what we need to do to help them is a whole other book story because it's massive. But you can build these things into your life and you build it into your kids' lives. Yeah, by doing it. just like your parents did with you, all that kind of inspiration. Yeah, my dad was the outdoor. He gave me the outdoor stuff.

He took me walking from at the age of six. And it stayed with me for the whole of my life. What a gift. Yeah. I really hope you're enjoying this episode. And if you can, give us a follow. So you did end up successfully getting pregnant, even though it was a lot of work, wasn't it? The second time with the IVF, but you've got three lovely kids.

Yes. But then something happened. And when did you first feel a lump? So I'm really bound with dates, but I think it was in, it was 2020. Is that when we hit it into lockdown? Yes. Yes, that was the first lockdown. So in 2020, I was away on a job in Costa Rica, one of my favorite places because it's nature's paradise.

And I was in a hotel and I was doing my breast checking, which I've always done very regularly. And I found a lump here, left breast, this bit. I was like, oh, okay, looked in the mirror, could see the lump when I pulled the skin. So went home and lockdown had just begun and this thing called COVID was happening. It was difficult to get an appointment. I have the best GP who's known me since I was 18. Oh, wow. So we did our first ever Zoom consultation together.

Oh, wow. And then he said to me, okay, I will do my best. It is possible. And because of what we're looking at here, I think I can get you something. And he did. He got me an appointment. And it was weird because it was wearing masks and disinfecting your hands before we touched the pen and feeling in. Anyway, I did get an appointment.

I ended up having a mammogram and an ultrasound. And the diagnosis was you've got benign microsome. But even with the mammogram and the ultrasound? Yep. Benign microsystem. How can that happen? Well, we can now talk about dense breasts. Yes.

I have dense breasts. I've seen your posts about dense breasts. Yeah. A lot of people don't know about dense breasts. If you're over 50, there's a 40 to 50% chance that you've got dense breasts. Dense breasts has nothing to do with your size, shape, how they move. Not even that big. It's the density of the flesh.

And as one doctor told me, if you've got dense breast and you have a mammogram, tumours are invisible. Wow. Because it's like looking for a snowball in a snowstorm. It's white on white. Your whole breast looks whiter because of the tissue. And tumours show up white as well on mammograms. But you had an ultrasound as well.

I had an ultrasound as well, but nothing was picked up. It was missed. So this was a benign microsyists, and my consultant said to me, if I were you, I'd keep an eye on it. And even if you have to pay for it, do another mammogram and ultrasound in a year's time. Let's see what's going on here because I don't think there is, but it's worth keeping an eye on. So I did exactly that. And I had another mammogram and an ultrasound. Had it grown?

And it hadn't grown, but it had become. it had become painful to touch. And on this second, the second pass, my consultant couldn't see me for the immediate consultation. So they didn't really want to give me the mammogram in the Oxfant because he couldn't see me on the same day. But I said, look, I'm going away on holiday. Let's just do it.

And then it's now painful. They went, okay, yes, we will. And then come and see your consultant when you come back. And in that situation, again, came back, no. Oh, we're looking good. nothing to worry about go off on your holiday come and see Mr.

your consultant when you come back but all doesn't doesn't look as if there's anything to worry about here came back saw my consultant wasn't going to see him

because I thought everything was fine and I'm convinced what's the point what's the point won't waste his time won't waste my time sitting there

he and I are talking we're talking about climbing mountains I'm just about to stand up he said I'll just give you an ultraltown before you go let's do one ultrasound before you go in his

in his area got his nursing because you need two people, gave me an ultrasound. And as he was doing the ultrasound, he looked at me and he went, and he took in this little sharp intake of breath. And he went, there's something I don't like. And I went, what do you mean? He said, can you see that?

I'm useless at screens. And also ultrasounds don't make any sense to me whatsoever. And it was a tiny, tiny, dark prick. He said that. I said, well, what do you think it is? He said, I don't know, but I don't like it. Let's get you. I need you to go and have another screening with our imaging.

team in case I've made a mistake here. And if it's what I think it is, we'll do a biopsy. And I had the biopsy. A few days later, I had the biopsy. And that was the first time I shed a tear because then I thought this is serious. And that was the beginning of my diagnosis. And three days later, I found out it was cancer. And then that was it. I was on the roller where were you when you found out? I was at home because I'd engineered it that way. Right. I was meant to be with your husband. No, he was on his way to work. And I said I'd phone him straight away. and I was meant to have been on location the Friday before

and I said I can't take the call when I'm on location I won't be able to handle whatever the news is and I'm with all these strange people I was up a tree one of my happiest places but it would have been a very unhappy call that day so I was outside in my garden and I had a note paper and pad and he phoned and he said I'm sorry to say it is cancer and he said it's a big tumour

I just remember these words cancer big tumour might be able to do a lumpectomy probably will be a mastectomy. And so all in a couple of minutes, it was like, wow, I'm going to lose a breast. It's a big tumour. Does this mean chemo and radio? Am I going to die?

What does all of this mean? So immediately I put the phone down and I phoned jerry and said, how far are you? And he said, I'm not very far. I said, come back. And I told him and we cried. And I said, I'll do whatever I have to do

to get through this. I will do whatever it is. If I have to lose a breast, if I have to lose my hair, if I have to go, I need to do, I'm going to do what I need to do to get through this. And I've never cried at this bit of the story before. But it's the moment you feel the most vulnerable. And it's also the moment that you know nothing. You know, I'm a journalist. I can find out answers. I can get to people.

I can work out what I'm going to do. But at that moment, you are lost. You're just, oh my God, I've got cancer. It's always the thing I think that we've, feared the most. But I think I do understand that for someone like you not to know anything to suddenly not be informed, you're always informed, you know, everything about a subject. And it's like, I know nothing. I know nothing. I mean, now I know every type of cancer is different.

Every type of breast cancer is different. You know, you'll have a friend who's gone through breast cancer. And she and I will sit down and have a story and will have had a different tumor in a different place and it will behave differently. Cancer is fiendishly clever and it's very complicated. And there's a reason why the war on cancer hasn't been won yet. You know, there are lots of things happening with cancer. I've now learned so much.

And I feel empowered and I feel informed. And I feel that I can share what I've learned as part of my experience with other people. And the only thing that I can say with certainty is, I don't believe there is one thing that will cure anybody's cancer. I don't think it's one drug. I don't think it's one treatment. I don't think it is one approach. I believe that cancer has to be treated holistically,

that it is to do with so many factors. And if you're not metabolically healthy, if you're not a healthy person, if you're not feeding yourself the right foods, if you're drinking lots of alcohol and you're eating lots of sugar, that's not the best environment to fight cancer. Because it's a metabolic disease

that's feeding off all sorts of things. It's not sugar. You know, people go, oh, it's all what sugar feeds on cancer. It's not that simple. Our brains need glucose. We need glucose. It's not that simple. I've learned that.

But what is the environment around the tumour? What is going on with you? And stress plays a role. And spending time outside plays a role. And your community and your social fitness plays a role. And what your eating plays a role. What your drinking plays a role. And your mindset, all of these things play a role.

And the first thing plays a role. future of cancer care will be all of these things. You'll have somebody to get you through your personal fitness. You'll have somebody to get you through your nutrition. You'll have a psychologist to help you with your mental, the mental side of things and dealing with stuff and how to handle stress because it all plays a role, I believe. After you, after you had that conversation, I mean, I've got older children and my my thoughts are whenever I've had. a scare was something I had a biopsy done. I was always like, at what point will they be okay if I die? Like, how old do they have to be? For me, I just want to see my children grow up.

Now, what is that age? I mean, your girls are in their 20s. Of course I want to see my children reach their 20s. Yes, I do. But I want to see them reach their 30s as well. I want to see them become capable, loving adults. I want to see where they go. I want to see how to see how they develop. So there is no cut off. You know, you can't say, well, I'll be fine if I die when they're 25 or I'll be fine. If they get to 15, it'll be okay. No time is okay. No. You know, I want to be here. I want to see them. Did that fight take over straight away? Straight away. Yeah. The, what can I do and how am I going to be here to be on planet Earth for as long as possible? Those two things were like, straight away. When did you, when did you

tell the kids. I told them after all of the diagnosis and when we were very clear what treatment I was going to have, how long it would take and what impact it would have on me. So it was several months, but I was scared to leave it much longer and I was also scared that it would come out somehow in the public, you know. And that would be terrible. And all the school gates or something like that. Just I wanted to control the narrative with them and I wanted to control the narrative with the public as well, which is why I did the first interview with a very trusted journalist friend of mine and I made a documentary about it. Didn't make the documentary about cancer for people to feel sorry for me.

I made it to talk about the new stuff that's happening out there and tests that we can do. And I also made it to show that it can happen to anybody and to show that I was shit scared and that anybody can be frightened and it's fine. And you can be and should be worried and tearful and not knowing. knowing, you know, not know what's coming on the other side. And that is all fine for everybody. And you even said in your book that, like, in some ways, the cancer for you has been a good thing,

a like a life-changing experience, but in a good way. Can you talk me through that? I have said, and I knew it would be a controversial line, but I really did mean it, cancer saved my life. I was living at breakneck speed Couldn't have children, IVF Wanted that job? Find a way, phone somebody

You know, talk to your age and hustle You know, we can't have that job Can you orchestrate this job? Can you if you can't, somebody won't commission that program Can you co-develop that series? Need to be in four different places? Yes, okay, we can do that We can get a car on standby

Then we can get on a plane And can do it You can do it all. I lived that life. Sugar. Loved it. Loved sugar. Breakfast, lunch, in between lunch, dinner, after dinner.

Sugary cereal, 11s is donut, brownie on the road, pasta, carbs, refined sugar. You would have called yourself healthy, though, right? I called myself healthy because I was slim and I exercised every now and again, and I didn't have a problem with weight. Now I know I was far from healthy. So I know that you've had an issue with sugar as well. And I cannot impress upon people the more experts you talk to about sugar and refined carbs.

So the pastas and the pizzas and the breads, those are refined carbs that turn to glucose very, very quickly. But is that white bread or brown, like, is bread fine? Refined bread. Sourdough, you might have, there's, sourdough is fermented. So there's a difference and it has benefits. And people talk about that. But it's not what you want to do every day. No.

So I have to tell you what sugar does to you. Sugar affects your immune system. Your immune system is present in every cell of your body. When you eat something refined, a refined sugar, a message comes through your gut. This is very simplified forms. I'm not a doctor. This is stuff that I've learned as well from a host of experts. It sends out a message.

And your immune system doesn't understand this onslaught of refined foods because that's not what we've evolved to eat. Whole foods, vegetables, nuts, seeds, meat, fish. I mean, there's a whole, you know, we could go vegan or not. There are all these debates you can go down. But whole foods, our bodies understands. Refined foods, sugars, sugary drinks, the immune system doesn't understand. So it has a choice.

It can either break up the cell, which causes inflammation. Or if it understands the food, the whole foods, it can replace and it can repair and replace. That's the good thing. No inflammation with that. Right. So it's inflammation that is causing the damage, and these foods cause long-term inflammation. And the only way I can describe it is sugar makes your blood sticky like Velcro, and then it doesn't work properly. And what you need to be doing is your immune system, we've all got thousands of cells, cancer cells, to deal with every day.

Your immune system needs to be working on those. It's busy with all the other stuff that you're doing, the toxins, the sugar. You're making your blood sticky. The immune system isn't working properly. You're clogging up your liver and other bits of yourself. You're basically jamming everything. By the way, also has an impact on your brain health. They're talking about diabetes three being Alzheimer's.

Big sugar. And if you're constantly full of sugar, if your blood levels are very high with glucose because you're snacking the way I did, and it's always a refined carb or sugar. Then you're also feeding your brain. Your brain needs glucose. Refined carb, yes.

And they're fried. And they're fried. It's a processed food. It's not great. I mean, I hardly eat crisps anymore, but I was just thinking that's also. Yeah. It also affects your brain.

So not at the same level, but what you've got is this inflammation going on everywhere. And that is when disease makes its way into your life. Diabetes, type 2 diabetes is on the rise. It's going up and up and up. It costs about £3,000 a year to take care of somebody with type 2 diabetes. And at the moment, you've got people as young as 30

who are being diagnosed with type 2 diabetes and their life cost. You can go blind. It affects every organ in the liver. I think that's the thing that people are like, well, it's, you know, you can treat diabetes. You can kind of take something for it. But actually, there's a lot that goes on other complications from diabetes.

You're at a much higher risk of cancer if you've got type 2 diabetes. So I went, okay, I'm not going to snack anymore. So I'm not going to eat in between meals. because I don't want that sugary roller coaster and I don't want that constant flat line of sugar. So I stopped snacking, which I found easy to do after three weeks. It was hell for the first three weeks.

So when you feel the pan, go for a walk or do something else. Yes. Jump up, do star jumps, phone a friend. It's sort of like an addiction, isn't it? It's like distract yourself a little bit. Do something else, but don't succumb to the snacking. Snacking helps really moderate your spikes. So that's good.

And change your breakfast. I do a double breakfast. I have eggs. I have avocado. I'll have a bit of protein for the night before, maybe some leftover chicken, a free-range chicken

or some sustainably caught fish or a little bit of that. And I'll put that on my plate with my veggies. I drizzle my olive oil because it's good for my cancer. Polyphenols, high in polyphenols, squeeze of lemon, great for the veggies,

mixed of greens. Big plate, love it. Then my pudding is blueberries. Yes. And my yogurt. I do. I had to coconut yogurt and nuts and seeds. But I love it.

And I used to about 11 and people go, where do you put it? But they've always said to me, you eat so much. But I love that. That carries me through till the evening. Amazing. And I don't get sugary cravings. It took about four weeks for that to become a habit. Yes.

And for that to make sense. Now when I have a sugary craving, I only eat the dark chocolate after I've eaten my main meal. Yes. And I will use dark chocolate and blueberries. And there are some really good. keto things out there that are low carb. And they are naughty and they have got sugar in them, but they've got honey maybe or

maple syrup. And I'm not saying they're healthy. But if you do want that sugary thing, they're so much better than zero cocoa milk bars, which have got all this crap and emulsifiers and texturizers and all that in it. There are options out there, but you have to change your life. Yeah, I mean, it's... I'll hook you up with. with a very good shop that you will be...

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It's so good. I am a massive fan. I love how they do all of this research and they give it all away for free. I was really thinking about, you know, how do you tell young children that you're not well? What was that like for you? There's a brilliant charity called the Fruit Fly Collective, which is set up by volunteers, their nurses and doctors.

And it does exactly that. It helps you talk to your family about cancer. And you go to meetings and you take the kids with you. And they do demonstrations about this is what cancer is and they do it with puppets. And then they have all these great props around the room. So they've got a toothpaste tube which is full of lead. And you pick up the toothpaste tube. your children pick up the toothpaste tube and it's really heavy.

And they go, that's what it's like with chemo. You're so tired after chemo that every day stuff is hard. They have boxing gloves to try and get you to tie up your shoe laces with boxing gloves because you can lose sensitivity and feeling and your skin with chemo as well and get the kids to it and go, that's why I can't do your laces up anymore because I can't feel the laces. And they have a radiation gun. My son loved that.

And the radiation is like, this is how they zap you. and this is the, they sort of make you like a video game. And then they talk about the psychology of it all and trying to sort of explain it. And you talk to other parents and other family members. And I spoke to some amazing parents and the stuff they're going through and secondary cancers, they're going to die.

And how do they have that conversation with their kids? And I came away feeling very grateful that my cancer was caught early, that I'm doing everything I can to manage risk. I've done genetic testing, so I know what my risk of recurrence is. There is a risk, but I know what it is. And I could manage that. We could talk about alcohol in a moment.

But it was so helpful. And those resources are out there. And there are lots of great charities. Macmillan do similar things and Maggie's do brilliant things where you go and say, how do I tell my family? How do I tell my best friend? How do I tell people what I need from them with cancer? Yes.

I mean, how do you do that? You just have to be honest with your friend. and when they say, what can I do, you say, please don't ask me how I am all the time. Right. So you even say, like, this is what I need from you. Yeah. I don't want you to fan the flames. I need you to.

And I can't. And I couldn't tell, you know, all of my friends every day how I am, because you just don't got that energy. It's like, well, I'm shit, thanks. Yeah. Or I'm really pain. It's really painful today. Or I'm really frightened about the operation.

So I had a WhatsApp group and we were all on it. It was called my left hit. And I. My sister gave updates and I gave updates and everybody, we sort of talked together through that. And that's a really good way of doing it. But telling your children is heartbreaking. I mean, my girls were six and my son was nine. They were little.

And we took them into the garden, walking in a green space and just said, Mommy's not very well. And she's got this thing called cancer. And the first thing one of my little girls said, which I've spoken about a lot, is being in lots of the papers. She said, Mommy, can I still hug you? And I was like, of course you could still hug me. I'm going to need more hugs than ever. And I explained about, I knew quite early on that I wouldn't have to go through chemotherapy

because of the type of cancer I had. And it was unlikely that I'd need radiation as well. So I was so fortunate in so many ways. I could have immediate reconstruction. Some women are still flat to this day, not because they want to be, but because there's a waiting list or because of the type of cancer they had.

You know, it's so horrible and complicated and unfair in every way. You know, some women are told it's stage four, there's nothing we can do for you. You know, it's so I had to count my blessings. And I told my children that the prognosis was good, that mummy was otherwise healthy and that I was going to do everything I could to stay healthy and get healthier. And they see me exercising and they see what I eat. And they see how I am and they see me meditating. My son did the most beautiful thesis for his religious studies class.

school, which we only found out about when we went to parents' evening. And they said he made us all cry because he was talking about why religion is important. Now, I'm not religious. We're not religious. But he put meditation and spirituality in the same category as religion. And he said meditation and spirituality, my mum found that through her cancer and it saved her. And that was his debate. And that was his way of handling it and understanding it. I was so impressed with him that that was the way he'd digest it, but also just gladdened in the heart that he'd seen it this way. They see me doing everything I can. Yes. What I hear, though, is you helped them a lot with the way that you approached it, that you enabled them to. You enabled them to,

go and talk to their class about it and not feel like it was something they needed to hide or I think that's also a real gift and I think that's hard for some people I've got people who've gone through breastcant who still haven't told anybody they've told their closest the nearest end areas but they haven't told the wider community they don't want to they don't want the pressure they don't want the judgment they don't know they don't want the drama yeah you know people it creates like yeah a drama and that again gets back to that. You have to find a way to centre yourself and you have to find a way to calm your soul and your stress. And stress and sugar, they go hand to the end. Tell me about stress and

sugar. Well, cortisol is driven by stress. And if you've got an inflamed body environment, that's going to drive the cortisol as well. So stress is something that isn't spoken about enough when it comes to health. One of my close friends who was diagnosed with breast cancer, her very old school oncologist who's not into the nutrition and the genetics and all the stuff I care about, but he said to her, stress, handle your stress, don't be stressed. I wonder if you're a bit like me in that we're very busy,

you've got lots of things, hustle, hustle, I don't think I'm stressed. But you are? I don't know, am I stressed? Yes, we are stressed. we are. Yes, you are. We are because of our lives. Show me somebody in today's world that isn't stressed.

If you've got social media, you're stressed. If you've got emails are stressed. If you've got a career, you're stressed. If you've got a family to look after, you're stressed. If you're not sitting around, I mean, our tribal ancestors were stressed. Any moment, there would be an attack or they have to get up and move

because another tribe is coming to take their territory. They might be not eating for days and they don't know where the next bit of food is coming. Stress is a part of life, but it's that resilience and it's that handling it, but also accepting it and trying to find a way of dealing with it. So our tribal ancestors walked all the time. They were outside most of the time. They ate a very healthy diet which had no refined carbs, no sugar, you know, apart from the fruit.

They were counteracting their stress with this outdoor moving lifestyle. We don't do that. We stay inside. We look at blue screens. We don't move as much. I know exercise is incredibly important to you. But is there a certain types of exercise? Are you more stressed?

And get your heart rate going. Do you do the other non-stressy exercises? Do you do the yogas? Do you do the walking? Do you... I have sort of an exercise jigsaw now. I do weight training twice a week. Really important.

Muscles, as you know, are not just to look the way that they do. They actually, they now know that muscles pump proteins, healthy proteins into your blood. The muscles have been redefined as an endocrine system, part of your hormonal buildup. We need muscles not just to look the way that we do. So really important to stay strong. Signs of longevity, strong legs, grip strength.

And can you do the farmers carry? Can you carry more than half your body weight in both hands? Well, I didn't know that. Can you hold that for more than a minute? Sign of longevity. Oh, wow. Getting up off the floor. Can you get up off the floor without using your hands?

sign of longevity. All of these things, people go, oh, I can't, I'm 60. Why not? But also, I think if you can't and you're 60, you can learn. You can learn and you can do it. And it's never too late. I'm 54 and I've changed my life. And I've got off sugar and I have prescription exercise.

I do my weights. I do my yoga. I do my stretching. I do my meditation. I do my breath work. That is my life. It's part of what I do. And I work and I look after my children.

But I have to have those things in my life. You are in remission. I hate that phrase. Yeah, because it feels temporary. It does. And I know that those five years, you know, you are probably stuck in this kind of no man's land. What's it like for you? So the five-year thing I don't like either because I think the five-year thing is used as a

tool to show how the drugs work. Because basically, for the drugs that are often used in cancer treatment, the sign of success is whether or not you live for five years after they started administering the drugs and the treatment. So I'm not on any drugs. Did you choose not to be on them? Well, that's a big long story. I could have gone on some drugs. I couldn't have gone on to moxifen because I was postmenopausal. I've subsequently done some genetic testing, which has indicated, A, it wouldn't have been very good for me anyway, probably wouldn't have done anything, might have caused harm, and then I would have had all of those side effects. So I'm not saying to people, do not go on Tamoxifen.

I'm not saying, don't listen to your oncologist. What I'm saying is there are tests out there now that in America, they're doing this to Moxswain test. So they see, is it good for me? Does it work for me? Has it completely fucking taken over your life? Is it like, does it take up too much? headspace? Or how do you view that? I look upon it now as a work project. So I've written books

and I've got two other books in the pipeline. So for me, anything, any work project that I'm doing, I'm a bit like you. I do my research. I'm in it. Am I obsessive? I don't think so because now this is habit for me. Do my friends and family, my kids. I mean, they know they roll their eyes and, you know, with breakfast. Breakfast has changed for them. They do not have sugary cereals. You know, they have to eat their vegetables every day. It's a non-negotiable and they know why. Do they silly pizza? Yes, they do. Do they have it every day? Even every week? No, they don't. Are they allowed ice cream? Of course they are. Some ice creams are worse than other ice creams. I show them an app. Yes. And I go, that's a five. That's really bad for you. Can we go for a scoop of this instead?

Yes, Mommy, as long as it's ice cream. You know, there are workarounds for all of this. It's become a way of life and I find it fascinating. And what I find really interesting is a lot of it is very accessible information. It might not be easy for you to do, but it's there. And I think my feeling is if people know about it, they can do something about it. I mean, sometimes it's just habits that we've grown up with. And so it's become just part of our DNA, you know, what we eat, the way we behave, how we sleep. you know, if you've never exercised,

it's just the way that you've grown up. And making the change, I hate change. Making a change is hard. But once you start it, you think, oh, God, I'm loving this. This makes me feel amazing. Why didn't I do this before? I know meditation would do that for me.

And I know that if you do the five minutes, finding the bit that works for you, you will pretty soon be on to your 20 minutes because you'll love that time and you will get so much from. it. And that's why I talk about walking so much, because for people who don't like exercise, walking is the gateway exercise. Walking is exercise. It is exercise. I don't say it's my only thing. I've told you all the other things I do. But walking every day for me, mental,

it's so good for your mental health. I mean, the ancient Greeks had walking schools. That's where a lot of the sort of foundation of philosophy came from. They were walking and talking. Einstein went for three-hour walks every day. And then he sat there. I think he lay in the bath as well. And he thought, when do we do that? All these great... Well, we're always listening to music, podcasts, Mars. We're always listening to something.

Listen to nature. Never thinking about anything. Yeah. Listen to nature. Think about stuff. Find quiet time. I was an ideas person when I was younger. And I now purposefully try and spend time walking without anything in no music.

Because I used to love the music, you know, make me walk fast or whatever. Now I really try and hear the nature and connect with that. that in a better way, yeah. And the rhythm of how you're... That's meditative. It is meditative. And that is a really great way of getting yourself into that. I would be so interested to speak to you in a month's time and go,

how's the sitting still and thinking about stuff going or not thinking about stuff? I think people are frightened in meditation because I think you're not, you're meant to clear your mind. And that's not meditation. It's handling the thought. It's letting the thoughts come in and then pushing them away. That's what meditation is. try and try and then the longer you sort of build up that muscle it becomes easier and it makes you

better at other stuff as well if you can do that you can do so many other things because you can apply yourself i do a cold shower three times a week i hate it i'm greek i'm mediterranean i love the warmth i've become very adapted to cold cold or to swimming i do every day and again the cold shower thing really builds my reserve cold. I do everything warm and then I turn cold over my shoulders. How long? How long?

Two and a half minutes. And I do, I've got a meditative chant that I do and I do that to pass time. Non-my-ho-ringi-kio. That's Buddhism, right? Yeah. And I do that and I get out of that shower and I feel amazing. And it's building a resilience.

It's brilliant. When he comes out, it's like that. Yeah. Wow. And these little stresses are good for us. To do these little stresses, hermetic stress, it's called. These are sort of nudging our body to understand the stress, but then you pull off the break. Basically, you're building it up, you're getting it used to it.

So when you do have a really stressful work call or your late, you can deal with it better. And it goes right back to our early conversation. Life's going to go wrong. Stuff's going to happen. How do you deal with it? I'd like to talk to you about alcohol. We've touched on it a little bit. Alcohol is very much part of our culture.

It's fun. It's part of all sporting events. Any kind of happy, big event in the country that we all come together for. But like Thursday night, it's the new Friday night, Friday night, Saturday night, Saturday. It's habitual. It's part of our social gatherings. I, when I stopped drinking, was regularly shamed for not having a drink when people didn't quite know my history. Do you drink?

And how did you stop if you don't? Like, tell me everything. Yeah. Alcohol has obviously come up quite a bit in my research. Alcohol drives estrogen. So if you've got any estrogen-driven diseases like endometriosis or breast cancer, it increases your risk. And I was told to cut back on alcohol. Oh, Sweden.

I was told to cut back on alcohol after my diagnosis. And I was given a very scary stat by one doctor, Professor Gareth Evans, who said, if you drink more than six units a week, your risk of recurrence goes up by 28%. And I was like, what? It's like, yeah, that's your stat. And otherwise, if you're under that, it's like between six and ten percent. And I just won't. I mean, that's just, no.

You know, if you're doing it by science and charts and what works, what doesn't it? It was like, okay, I'm not drinking anymore. That's really. And was that an overnight thing? How hard was that? That was difficult for people. It is really difficult. And that's where I don't know if.

I was an alcoholic because I was drinking regularly and I was definitely, I mean, they would say that, oh, she can drink anybody under the table. It was a badge of honour. Yeah. You know, the Braddus is still there. Yeah. Going, you know, you know, back to those clubbing days.

Yeah. Still going strong at four o'clock when everyone's falling. You're like, yeah, but I'm still standing and give me another vodka restaurant or yeah, whatever. I probably was. I was addicted to alcohol, should we say. The good bits of it. The partying, the atmosphere.

all the stuff that you've mentioned, the socialising. I liked all of that. And I was kind of like the centre of that bit as well. So it's a bit of an ego boost. But it wasn't hard for me because of the cancer and because of my children and because of that stat that sticks in my head. It's a bit like eating all that sugar

turns your blood to Velcro. It was like 28%. 28%. So now I allow myself one glass of bubbles on my birthday every year. And it's the best I can afford, whatever that might be. any given year, depending our work has gone.

It's as dry as it can be, because the drier, the alcohol, the better. But I am under no illusion that it's healthy, that it's good for me. There is no form of alcohol, by the way, that's good for you. No, I know. You know, people go, oh, but I drink clean tequila or I drink, it doesn't matter. It's the alcohol that is the toxic substance that is driving disease. It's not the colour or the shape or the flavour that it's in. It's the actual alcohol.

I feel like I can't do anything. I feel like I'm going to have to like, you know, narcotic synonymous, like just complete abstinence from all chocolate and sugar because I feel like the one square of dark chocolate would lead me to a bar of milk. I would say, give yourself two weeks, set yourself a goal of two weeks. You be my sponsor. I'll be your sponsor.

Go wrong, berries, you breeze, and dark chocolate. We can put you on 75%. That's low. And you can work your way up to 85%. And see how you do. And try the stuff I've said. Stop snacking. And always have it at the end of a meal.

And in those weaker moments, go for a walk. Or, you know, you can even, in the studio where we are here, you could go for a walk. You can run upstairs. My friend, the TV exec, she runs up and downstairs if she can't get outside. Yes, okay. distract yourself.

And think about the benefit. It's. Think about inflammation. And also, you can look at yourself in the mirror. And I look at myself in the mirror. And I'm all wonky now. I've got, you know, one wonky boob and I've got a bunion that I hate and, you know, I've got cellulite and all of that. I go, I'm still here. But look at that body. It's thin. It's all of this. But you still, there was still something unhealthy about you. But you looked much better than you do now, but you were still unhealthy. Yes. So what are you going to do to keep this as healthy as possible? I'm sort of give myself a bit of a talking to. If I was going to ask you, out of everything you've said to me today, what is the most important thing you've told me? What would you say? The self-care line that you have to be able to make the time,

understand the importance of the self-care, because it's all important. That's what I've learned about treatment for cancer. Every bit of your treatment is important. So if you're going through cancer, chemotherapy, you want your nutrition to be as good as possible because you want to be your cells to be as functioning as they possibly can be. So yeah, don't drink any alcohol and no, don't have lots of sugar. But which one of those is more important? It's the whole health

puzzle. The bit that's important is looking at your life and realizing there is no one thing. It's everything. It's the whole thing. It is your relationship. It's It is the way you eat. It is the way you breathe. Breathwork we haven't spoken about, but breathwork has been life-changing for me. And I think breathwork will be really life-changing for you because that would be your door into meditation. I have done a bit and it blew my mind. It's a really, it blew my mind.

There are two things you can do with breathwork. You can get high as a kite. So that's, you know, you and I like that. We like the energy and we like that burst. We like highs. Yeah. So you can do that with an hour-long, you know, breathwork, breath of fire. You can literally go out and your head's exploding.

You're like, wow, it's like a drug or, you know, a shot. But the other thing you can do is you can cut through and get calm and peaceful and serene. And it's magic. I mean, there are tribes where they close the mouths of children, babies when they're sleeping at night. Most babies sleep with their mouths closed. But if they don't, there's a tribe where they close the mouth so that they're only nasal breath. Nasal breathing is life-chater. You know I've got great noses.

Nasal breathing filters the air, creates nitric oxide. The hairs are there for a reason because that's part of the filtration, puts healthier oxygen into your lungs and slows down your breathing. You don't need to breathe through your mouth.

You can breathe through your mouth. Keep trying to do it while I'm running. Yeah, it's really hard. Really hard. I've got some great nasal dilators that will help. Oh, they don't look great, but they do the job. Yeah.

You put in these nasal dilators. and practice, and then you put a little bit of tape on your mouth and try that. Start with walking, running. I see how you go. I can walk with my mouth shut. That's good. It's a builder. I just running when I start really feeling out of breath.

Yeah. When you're doing really hard exercise, it's tough. And actually, there is a point where you do have to start my breathing. But you can delay it and you can get up to quite a high level of exercise before you need to do it. And then when you're, when you're, I kind of, I find it helpful to go, when I'm, when I start using my mouth, the really tough bit of exercise, I still breathe through my nose, but I do. Exhale to your mouth.

I exhale, but tight little lips. That's controlling it. It's thinking the people of Tumbra Twelfth. They are going to be nasal dilated. I'm dilated, I'm taped. Yeah. I'll be in the forest. Yeah.

Hugging your trees. They're going to go there. There she goes again. Good. Very good for you. Very good for a bit of free hugging. Julia, thank you. I thank you for being so honest about your story and everything. It's going to help a lot of people who might be going through something or if they listen, you know, if they go through something in the future. I mean, one in two of us, we know. We'll get cancer. One in seven will get breast cancer, women. What I would say to people is we've spoken about a lot and it's probably quite overwhelming. And it's taken me two and a half years to get to this stage. Don't think that you have to do everything all at once. And it's much better to do one thing, a small one thing, than nothing at all. Yeah, if you're going to make one change, just make that one change and see how you feel.

But there is that great expression, day one or one day? Just do it today. Well, no, it's not going to hug you. Oxytocin. I love you. Oh, I love you too. And wishing you all the best with your pod, which is going to be huge.