Begin Again with Davina McCall - Tom Davis on Sobriety, Fatherhood & the Anxiety That Took Him Off Stage

Episode Date: July 31, 2025

In this episode of Begin Again, actor, comedian, and writer Tom Davis opens up about the battles behind the laughter—and how sobriety and fatherhood helped him find himself again. Best known for Murder in Successville, King Gary, and his raw, relatable humour, Tom shares the quieter struggles that shaped his journey: crippling anxiety, imposter syndrome, and the fear that nearly stopped him from ever stepping on a stand-up stage again. In this intimate and revealing conversation, Tom explains how giving up alcohol brought him clarity, how becoming a father changed everything, and what it took to return to comedy after years of self-doubt. Alongside his partner Kathryn, he also speaks candidly about grief, IVF, and the strength it takes to support a loved one through illness. This is a powerful story of growth, vulnerability, and learning to show up for the people you love—especially yourself. Whether you're battling self-belief or just need a reminder that it’s never too late to begin again, Tom’s journey is funny, moving, and packed with perspective. 💬 Drop a comment: What’s your biggest takeaway from Tom’s journey? 👉 Follow us on Instagram: @beginagain 🎥 Watch more on TikTok: @beginagainpod (00:00) Intro (00:24) Overcoming Dyslexia: Tom’s School Struggles (00:59) Imposter Syndrome & Believing in Yourself (03:50) How Early Jobs Shape Identity (08:56) Finding Comedy (14:27) Anxiety and the Pressure to Succeed (19:16) Losing Yourself on the Path to Success (25:24) Ancient & Brave Ad (29:35) Airbnb Ad (31:02) Supporting a Partner Through Illness (32:47) Kathryn’s Fertility Journey (35:17) Coping with Grief: Tom Opens Up (41:02) Choosing a Surrogate & Quitting Alcohol (44:02) Gaining Perspective & Returning to Stand-Up (51:03) Fatherhood and Life with Daughter Grace (55:11) Lifestyle Changes and Getting Fit (57:28) Failing Forward: Being Kinder to Yourself (01:03:25) Tom’s Hero & a Message from Kathryn - Sponsored by: Ancient + Brave - https://ancientandbrave.earth/pages/planet Airbnb - https://www.airbnb.co.uk/host Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Amazon presents Laura versus Fruit Flies. Swarming your fruit and terrorizing your kitchen, these little freaks multiply at a rate that would make a rabbit say, yo. Chill. But Laura shopped on Amazon and saved on cleaning spray, countertop wipes, and fly traps. Hey, fruit flies, your baby boom ends here. Save the Everyday with Amazon. I was 24 Stone, I drank a lot, I went to his doctors and had like a liver of a 70-year-old alcoholic.

I drink before a gig, I drink after a gig. And what did that feel like? When I first started stand-up, I was fearless for like 10 minutes on stage. I'm able to do something that I enjoy. I then started piling pressure on every gig. The imposter syndrome never went away. Like somewhere along the line, I'd lost who I was on stage, lost a lot of self-worth.

I felt like, I've kind of let everyone down. Catherine, my wife, was like, This is making you so unhappy. I'd probably lose my relationship if I carry on. I don't know what I'd have done or without her. She'd been in for these tests. And she was in early stages of septic sort of shock. That's when we were sort of told, you know,

she wouldn't be able to carry children anymore. I feel so blessed to be becoming a dad. I never thought I'd have that. So I have to treat that with the respect it's deserved. I make all the wrong choices when I'm drunk and I'm over. I don't want any wasted mornings. I need to be healthier. I grew into myself.

I grew into what I am now. What has been the most useful for you in your life? Having knocks along the way and there's a resilience, I'm trying to tell people, don't be scared of failure. You don't really want to be lying on your deathbed. It's surrounded by the regrets of the things you didn't do. Tom Davis, hi. Hello.

It's so nice to have you here. We are connected by so many kind of mutual coincidences. Our paths have so nearly crossed. Ships in the night. Yeah, it's quite funny, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, it's a weird thing. Almost days or moments away from bumping into someone.

I can't, yeah. We were, would you could say stablemates? Yeah, definitely. I would say that. Stablemates. Exactly. No. No.

You know, I was really enamored by hearing your beginnings at school because my middle daughter is a very dyslexic. Yeah. And really struggled because she had. had a non-dyslexic older sister. And it was really difficult for her at school. And I think your story is so inspiring for anyone who struggled. So what was that like for you going through school? I think school is a, it's a strange thing, isn't it?

Because I don't think you don't really realise when you're in it quite how. Yeah, it's really till years and years later. To be quite clear, I was, I never, I don't. I think I knew the limitations, and I often talk about the fact that hope was kind of stripped away. I don't know about your daughter, but I was sort of almost, I think, given up on a very young age. I think times have changed slightly. Actually, you've got a niece now who's dyslexic, and she's going through this at the moment, and you go, oh, maybe we're a bit more, you know, knowledgeable about all this now,

and then you hear stories, and you go, well, maybe we're not. I think for me it was, I remember the first memories of school were either, I remember like the thing of not knowing things or not quite understanding how things that were getting told or, you know, with ADHD, what that is now and struggling to understand sometimes what's going on, struggling, like knowing the answers or knowing the things that I wanted to do

and not but knowing, then also limitations when coming to like being dyslexic. And then quite quickly humor, even at a very young age, became a way of, you know, sort of masking how I really felt. So I remember like messing around in class. I remember a teacher hit me. around the back of the head and like,

and it grabbing me and just sort of shouting at me because she was so annoyed and I sat at the front of the class and I didn't even go home. The weird thing my mom said, I didn't ever went home and told me my. There was another kid told his mum and chief of mine and my mum was forever going up the school and saying that, you know, he understands, but there's something happening here

and she wanted those checks done and no one would do them. So they never tested you. No, no, later on in life, I've had that. Wow. And I think the thing for me was, I remember a teacher really, really vividly bringing me in another girl up to the front of the class. And I was as a bottom student, she was the top.

And her doing this whole, who do you think is going to get further out of life? I couldn't believe that. Yeah. And it's, so you think that's probably, you know, it's your informative year. How old would you have been when that happened? I'd have probably been 10 or 11.

From what, she was quite a interesting character. I think I'll put it to her name, Mrs. Craven or Miss Craven. And she was a sort of like, I guess in a way like a bit of a hippie and sort of but she you know I think what it's such an insane thing to say

looking back but I could tell that teachers never kind of like to warn they see it as messing around and being silly I think and but maybe then also thought he clearly understands and he's just pissing about and I remember just being in the class and

being called up and that being to the front of the class and for and and with another girl Yeah, who was, you know, a nice girl. Top of the class. Top of the class, very academic. Very academic. Not too sure what she's doing now.

I've never really looked into it. What's interesting is that she chose, she didn't choose. No. Well, wait, hang on. I mean, I was almost about to excuse her behalf. No, no, no. To do that, to ask the class to choose who's going to be more successful in the future. And I think that's the thing that school is, and I don't know about your daughter.

I think that thing is like the academic process, process and you speak to parents now and one of the things that I'm really, really we're working with the King's Trust now and we do a whole scheme with youngsters who haven't necessarily performed very well at school. My thing is what we do for a living

and creative, I write for a living now without being at all arrogant and I write to a pretty high level. But for a long time you've got to think it took me till 32 to start. It actually took me longer in that really to believe in myself even now. Romish and me talk a lot about this and Romish is a very deep thinking sort of guy and the

imposter syndrome that never really goes your formative years that's always going to be there. So all the success that I've been blessed to have later on in life and all the things that have happened to me, a lot of time you can still feel like that kid's down in front of the class in front of your peers all looking at you knowing that you know they think you're lesser than someone else and that can happen I think quite a lot and that's your go-to at any given time. And I think that's the sort of stigma that you try and really to change. Do you, is there any part of you that can see that that built resilience in you? Like, did it, did it make you think I'm going to show them? Not at that time.

No. What did it feel like then? Can you describe? If I'm going to be really honest, Davina, I thought, no, she will do a lot better at me out of life. I thought, like, my limitations of what, like, and I say this really, like, when people say, oh, did you always want to be a comedian? or do you always want to be an actor? And quite honestly, like,

it was never something that, obviously I'd have dreamt of it. You know, sitting at home watching fools and horses or whatever, you know, you'd be watching with your dad and your mum and your family. You go, of course you want to, you know, be trigger. Do you know what I mean? A big guy who plays trigger.

But that felt like a million, million miles away. And as a kid, I wouldn't, you know, I wanted for a long time to be a bin man. I thought, that looks like a laugh. That looks like something I'd actually be. okay at, you know, they all seem like have fun. And work on a building site, you know, be a labour or whatever. They were the things, you know, I was a chef for a little bit.

I tried things. The resilience that was built in me from a very young age was, I was never scared of failing. I was never, because I was... Did that come from failing? Yeah, all the time. I was awful at most sports, I try it. My dad jokes now. I was like, I remember going home to my dad and saying, I've joined chess club.

He went, you don't know how to play chess. And I was like, yeah, but I'll just give it a try. And then I entered in a chess tournament and lost every game and I got a best sportsmanship badge at the end. But I was never really that. I just thought it would be quite fun to try. And it's a really weird thing now where I look at life and I look at young people, like every bit of that sort of the carbon fire

where I guess in what makes you become the human being, you are a lot of, you know, a lot of that failing and a lot of that, oh, that's not, but also the work ethic of having to get up and go to a building site. I think there is and I hate the sort of way that we talk about it because young people are going for a lot we've got a lot of had to go you know but also

there is an element of like I think generationally things have changed massively I think there's been a shift I don't think people want to work on building sites anymore I don't think people want to go and labour I don't think people want to do what they deem as jobs that aren't as flat as yeah I think

you know we didn't have social media like there was such a sort of distance it always felt from being that person on television to being like you know and for a lot of my life it felt like that. And the only people that you really saw were the people on television or the people on the

street doing the jobs. Yeah. And so you didn't have that thing of social media where everybody seems to be doing a job better than you. Yeah and we all fall into this place. Social media is a really dangerous thing as a father now I look at it and look I'm like you right we work in an industry

where there's a certain element of what we do where we have to go right. You know, I try and be as earnest as honest as I can be in, and, you know, as to how my life is and as transparent, but you are aware that, you know, the growth of the social media star, even in the time I've been in this industry, I'm like, wow, it's changed, the dynamics changed. There was like, I think Facebook was there,

Twitter was just really sort of gaining. But there wasn't what you call social media stars. There were people who were television stars. And there's still a difference, I think, in what those two things are I think I can't want to have to subject here. No, but I mean, you know, I do think when in terms of life,

you're right about what you're seeking in life is very different now for young kids. Yeah. And it's interesting that people don't want to do the jobs like, I worked in a restaurant for two years. Yeah, yeah. And it was the best learning curve I've ever done.

It taught me so much. customer care is everything but you can see that in you as a performer I know it sounds but you can see the fabric yeah yeah but you can see that you the thing that I think oozes from you is as a people person right

it's the thing I remember talking to Greg James years ago about this actually like you think of like that I suppose our generation of presenter and like so many of the sort of grounding of that was restaurant work you know it wasn't social you know it was learning how to be around people and I learned about

difficult people and how to manage somebody who's a bit arcy and I learned how to be polite when somebody was off their head drunk you know I learned I learned how to calm the chef because somebody'd asked for their lamb to get well cooked and he was like I'm not doing that and he's like getting all angry about that and you know it's these are all skills that I still use now but but they're and they're great skill it's a really interesting thing of like I look at the years spent you know like I worked in I spent a lot

long time working on building sites I then was like oh actually I might go and train and try and be a chef and then so I did that to work building sites I love them yeah the social aspect the social aspects the work ethic that you get to put as a learning ground I found it as it's a really like there's a fallacy

and it's like a thing that really annoys me whenever I get a part or you know early on you get a part cent as a builder and it would always be like wolf whistling and and it's such a small minority of people are like that most people aren't looking out on the street ready to wolf whistle do I mean it's most people are grafting knocking their pipe out and but also the different cultures of people you've met at different people I think there's this again a misconception that it's just a entirely white sort of working class meeting and that's not true you'd meet people from all different backgrounds all from different places around the world I think

you know some of the different you know cultures that you can't across were great but I think the big thing was that work ethic of going you got to show up if you don't get paid I think I remember you know looking now where we are as a you know recession-wise and where we are economically I remember you know I've lived for a recession I've been in that situation where you might work four days or a week get to a Friday and go oh shit I don't know if I've got work on Monday have to go to a pub on a Friday evening and a Saturday trying to ask if anyone's got any work you know I never had a job interview until I was until I got into this really you know it was like meeting someone hopefully again like you say you

know your character would if you seem like a person everyone would get on with and you're a nice guy people go yeah you know you get you wouldn't sometimes have to work as hard if you're uh if you could be a bit of a laugh but it was it was a great grounding and when i came into this industry it that's been the that i think that above anything else was a difference that i knew i knew i I wasn't coming from, I wasn't very well connected. I wasn't, you know, I hadn't been, I hadn't had the necessary training when it came to sort of write in English, university, whatever.

I think, I knew, like, the one thing that I had in my back pocket was I was ready to work as hard as not, yeah. And like, that, get your nut down and graft. That was the thing where I'm like, like, that's going to be the thing. How much do you think, Michael and I often talk about male hierarchy and how that works, that women don't, do this really when they walk into a room.

They kind of assess women, but there is a like, in a room, Michael always says there's a hierarchy of men and there's like the alpha male. You can kind of, you're like assessing everybody. But like being tall,

that must have fooled you. No, you've got a target on your back. There's an Ilka person that you look at and go, they're probably very good at sport at school. They've always had that alpha sort of vibe. They've always sort of commanded some sort of respect.

Yeah, the job. And I never felt into that camp and never fell into sort of what you'd say was probably like a boffin or a nerd. I sort of, you know, but I was very acutely aware and a number of times when I was younger

that like being tall, being big and standing out. Like it's a weird thing where you look now and go like, you know, I remember being with Jack White or Virgin like V festival years ago. And Jack, but that had just popped.

and the wicked mates Jack and he, I remember him saying like at some point it'll pop for you but your trouble's going to be where are you going to hide he had a cat down and no one knew his cat and he was like you won't and that is and that's the thing of like

when you're six foot seven you walk into a room straight away people are going to clock you and there's no way around that so you have to there go right okay like and it's again it's one of those things became invaluable as a stand up in a sense because I never wanted to be someone where, number one, you don't want to be, you don't people thinking you're coming in

and you're a big alpha. That's not who I am. It's never been in my makeup. It's isn't how I conduct myself. And people feel like if they can have one over on the tall guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, you know. I remember selling T-shirts and back in the day,

and I remember being at, oh, it's like, it was in Stratford. It was like a dance festival. And I remember just minding my business and chatting some people. when this guy just came over and he just ripped his shirt off and he just started pushing me and I was like, what are you doing? He was off his head, but I was like, what are you fucking, you're nuts? What's going on?

And he's like, come on, big man, you want it? I was like, no. I really don't. What part of this looks like I want this? I was just standing here. But then you're also acutely aware that you kind of have to, and that's what I think, like, diffuse a situation very quickly without, you have to, you can't just be like, you know, you've got a.

that where comedy comes in? Oh, yeah. My dad's thing to me was like, you're not going to be that person who goes in and you're not going to, you don't want to be a bully. But, so you need to be the funny guy.

And that, but that was, yeah, and it was how to, to sort of, like, so people want to spend time you was all, like,

I suppose in a sense of my people, please, but I was always, it was very, very, like, dawn at a very young age that this is going to be the thing. Like,

never, an idea of doing what I'm doing, but in any given situation, try and just just, I've always loved making it, like even when I look back at school, and I was never picked it for any plays. I remember like, being in a, no, no,

I remember like being a background, I think it was a tree or something. And, and, yeah, just at the back. And then I remember just seeing like a bit of the thing and like a bit of the set and thinking, God, it's so boring, standing and leaning on it, and the whole set fell down.

and everyone just starts laughing and pointing it, yeah. And you're like, oh, well, that feels kind of nice. And that feeling of, like, joking and I think when you're on a site, they're long days. And I think if you can be the person who's doing impersonations of people or telling jokes and having a bit of crack, I think that's a really, like, important thing. I think, I think it's, you know,

I just did a film with Guy Ritchie, and I was like, chatted to Guy a lot and I adore guy. He's like someone I, if I'm very, very inspiring, I find an amazing person to be around. And we started talking about the grounding of a pub and how important pubs, not just for alcohol and drinking, because that's not saying I do anymore,

but like how important that as a place of education about every part of like, you know, like the matriarch who runs everything, sort of respect, you know, it's like to someone behind a, like behind a jump, is like everything, do you know what I mean? She can control these, you know, these in alphas or whatever, like for someone no reason,

that sort of portrayal of Peggy Mitchell, which was so bang on when you come from that environment. But actually the sort of camaraderie, the laughing, a joking, the sort of, like, I used to drink in a place, like, a butter churn in Sutton. And it used to be one of those sort of, I used to love a, most nights if I was DeVina. I mean, that's a problem. I used to drink too much. But I used to love that Friday, like, finishing work at, like, one, two o'clock and getting to the pub. And it being, like, the different characters are different. That's had such an imprint and everything I've done subsequently.

The thought of being around people and making people laugh, that was the thing. And you can fall away from that every now and again. You sort of, it's not always cool and it's not always sexy to be that person. You realize quite a lot of the time you're friends owned or big sister-in. Yeah, yeah. I'm quite interested in this idea. I mean, obviously, I've always thought that funny people are very clever. You can't be funny without being clever.

When did you realize that actually being funny is a form of intelligence? I think I still sometimes... Doubt that. Yeah. It's very strange, like, because coming from my way into this industry, like, there's a real funny thing. I don't know if you ever have this, that I always feel that people, I was so thought that I was sort of just a bit of a wally, that everyone kind of just assumes that they could do what I've done.

And, like, you talk, the amount of times I bump in someone I went to school with I used to work with them. They're going, oh yeah, I'm what, try stand up because it feels like you've done a while. Anyone could sort of do it. And you're like... I mean, isn't that's... But somewhere in you, you must have known, no, it's harder than that. Yeah, no, but also you know how much of this is luck.

I could never do stand up. Yeah, it's... I really, I just couldn't do it. But I regret, I stopped for six years and it was like when we talk about, like now, it's a really interesting thing when I look and we, this open conversation and especially in the male space about mental health and where we sit and how we look into, you know, you know, you talk about the dyslexia with something that,

like, if I'm honest with you, and it says, I never, like, got, don't notice as a kid because once I left school and I worked as a labor, I was like,

I'm never going to need to write again. It's just like, you know, and I did weirdly, I'd write poetry, I'd write like skits or I'd write things. But even now, like,

you know, if I'm on stage, a lot of my actors comes from in the moment. It comes. That's it? Yeah. So it's not written. I'll write bits down, but it's all about instinct and about, is this thing going to work?

Is this thing going to, and that's so much the time when I write stuff, I go, oh, this is going to be the thing that kills. And I go on stage and I go, oh, shit, that's not worked as well. And if you're free in the moment and you go like, oh, I can go here with this or can go there. And then you just learn it in almost like when you listen to a song on the radio, you almost, it's like, okay, you know the beats of the song. So you're effectively freestyling. Yeah, I mean, it's sometimes, yeah, I mean, once you know the act, the act's there, but the best thing in the world is when it breaks out and you think about, I mean, the worst thing in the world is when you've recorded your special and it's done.

And then on the sort of second tonight, last night, you go, oh shit, that's what I said. You come up with a bit. But it should always be evolving. I think everything we do, I think if you're locked down and you're confined into the place of, like, oh, this is what it is. And that's where I was stripped to that for like six years where like the anxiety and the the mental anguish of...

Can I say something very quickly? Do you mind me saying this? No, no. You don't know what I'm going to say. No, I don't know. So you don't know if you're like that I'm going to say it. Yeah, but I was going to say to you that you were just saying to me about the anxiety. But I would like to say about you and I think people say the same about me.

They just can't imagine us being anxious. Yeah. At first, I was fearless, right? So when I first started stand up, I was like, this is just, this should be another thing I could, I might fail at. And I was very,

I worked hard at it, I grafted, I was very much like, this is something that I love doing. And all of a sudden, from having what felt like a very limited life, felt like, you know,

all of a sudden I was doing something actually, this is quite creative, and this feels more like, you know, and a lot of people were still being, like, oh yeah, what are you going to do? You're not going to make a living out of it. And I never needed that. I was like, yeah, but you know what?

For like 10 minutes on stage, I'm able to do something that I enjoy, was for me. And then you get a little bit of success and you start. And then I had like external people around me. And what was, what now feels like, like there was like an ilk then of like, this is what a comedian almost looked like. And I wasn't that thing. And I was like getting sort of, and I was kind of, like, you know, Lee Francis, he's one of our really close friends.

He's like, Lee had seen me and stuff through James Defond, who was like a childhood friend. And Lee had seen me and stuff. And Lee saw something. James, obviously, you know, I wouldn't be here about James de Frond. And it's probably only only a few people I get very choked up when I talk about. But I wouldn't have a career. And he saw that. And way before I ever did.

I get more emotional talking about James than anything else, actually. No, but as a male friendship goes, but he always had that belief and it was unwavered. And we've been through a hell of a lot together as friends and as colleagues, but that side of him was like, you know, he, and he, you know, he came to every gig for like years. I mean, oh my God, it was amazing. Amazing. It's like incredible to have someone like that.

Support. Yeah, like that's what you need from a friend. But I think then other external voices came in and you sort of, you know, this. So tell me what the voice is. sounded like to you. Like every gig was like, I'll prep, I'll prep, I'll prep. So when I first started, I didn't know what a standout. Like my only, I wasn't like, you didn't have a formula. No, and I hadn't trained to, so, and I hadn't also, I wasn't like someone who, you know, Eddie Murphy Roar or Bernie Matt, like I loved a lot of Def Jam and that sort of stuff.

But I wasn't going to like, it wasn't, the comedy felt at times quite middle class. It was weirdly seeing Mickey Flanagan at the, like, I went to see him at his backyard club. He is so funny. He's so brilliant. And Mickey was the guy that I saw doing stand-up and I thought, oh, actually, wow, this is like, not like, because it sounds disrespectful to say, but I thought, fuck, he's talking about stuff that I talk about down the pub

and we laugh about it on the building site. He felt, so. Yes. You know exactly what you mean. So once we got into, so once I started, you know, I'd write stuff and I'd learn stuff and whatever, but I'd enjoy it. And then all of a sudden it became more serious than that.

and people were like, and you need to write your material. And, you know, I don't know how, like, but when you're then trying out to do spots on television, they want to read your act, and I'd never written it down because, you know. Right, because you're freestiming. Yeah, and also being dyslexic, like, you know, so I then started, like, piling pressure on every gig. Like, you're talking about there.

Every gig was like, and it didn't matter if it was, like, in front of seven people in a pub or a tryout for something. And what did that pressure feel like? Can you explain physical? Like not being able to eat that day. Like literally. And just like. Heart rate.

Yeah. Heart rate up. Anxiety. But also just constantly like I can't remember there's a term for it. But thinking I'm going to die. I'm going to be the worst gig ever. Like I'm going to absolutely. This is a moment that I'm going to get found out.

This is the moment that when people. That's a bit imposter syndrome. Yeah. Yeah. But this is a moment. I am a complete fake. Yeah. Everybody's going to realize today.

Yeah. And there'll be someone at the gig. who just goes, you know what, yeah, he was alright for a little bit, but yeah, he's had his moment, you know, so, and I just piled on pressure. And then that came at a time, and I suppose actually this predates caffeine in a sense, actually, because I started, that's where I was, like, drinking, like, a lot. I was like, in a situation. Just want to explain to everybody, Catherine's your wife. Yeah, so, yes, so you were drinking a lot. So I drink before a gig, I drink after a gig, I'd numb the pain of how bad it was. That was your anesthetic. Yeah, it was like, you know,

going out and also then did that affect your performance always always and also as you're well aware it affected the two or three days after of just feeling yeah of course depressed down more anxious then so you that happened on a Thursday and Saturday you're up again again and all you can really remember is you sort of have this awful feeling of like oh shit like that that one went so badly or maybe it had gone a little bit better but you would been drunk and you go oh, actually, maybe if I'd just get drunk again, that or, you know. Yes. And it got to a point where Catherine was like, you have no enjoyment from it.

Like, we've been together for a while and I had no enjoyment from that side of stuff. How long did it feel like that period went on for? How long was it like car crash? For that, I think it was like, I think I went probably for about a year or two. it culminated a lot of stuff where you know I don't want to get too much but like the management I was with at the time was almost like you're this isn't you know stand-up stuff

I felt like there's no one really believing in that no one had your back no and also I just felt I was looking around at people that who are friends and I adore but I was like why these people are so much better than me at this thing and it was like

like I sort of was just like you know I just felt that I had somewhere along the line, I'd lost who I was on state. It's a really important thing. It's like the thing like when I watch you. Well, confidence is everything. Not just confidence, but whenever I watch you on television, you're just unapologetically yourself, right?

And that's the hardest thing to be. I think people completely, like, I think it's the thing that why we all connect with Devin and McCall. It's like, it's the moment from if you're sitting at home and you're watching you on television, you number one, have that thing that you can't buy is that you all automatically feel like, you feel like that person in the pub

and that's the biggest common marketplace that comes in and everyone chats and laughs with it and has a joke if that feels and it's a thing for me that I don't think you can ever buy I don't think you can buy the people at home going I like that person and they're willing you to do well but also for you not to for you always just to go that this is who I am

that's a highlight and I was like going on stage and going who am like and I never had that I was always like right I'm a guy from a building site I can play the underdog I was self deprecating. Self deprecation has been my thing since I can remember. Me as well a bit.

Like I'd always just be like, I know I'm not the kind of raging beauty and I know I'm not the... That's why people love you. Yeah, but like that's why people love you. It's that same energy. Yeah. But I think it's interesting

that you were doing that but it wasn't giving you the feeling. That's because I think you didn't have, you weren't surrounded by people who were believing in you. No, and I still had. It was like being back at school. Yeah, and I still had like James there. And but then Catherine was like, you know, Catherine's thing was like, this is making you so unhappy. Like you're not, you're not going out.

I mean, you know, and at the time I'd then been lucky enough to do a bit of acting and a bit of writing. And I was like, this is something that, if I'm honest with you, I was like, this feels something. I'm not better at, but I just find my body tighten up as soon as I sort of went to go on stage. And then I try to remember exactly what I should say. And that was never, you know, when I look back at the stuff that I've made over the years, none of that is like the stuff that has been good. It was just, and I think I got so tightly wound. It was like, well, I'll probably lose my relationship if I carry on doing this.

She's not going to stay around too because it was driving me like, you know, to a point of, yeah. I mean, not mad. I don't mean mad, mad, but it was like... Yeah, but the same man is to it. Ladies! Hey, come here. I have just found out a major, major secret. One that men have been keeping to themselves for far too long,

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So if you'd like 20% off your first three subscription orders, go to 8%. Ancient and Brave.Earth slash planet. COVID was like an awful time and terrible. It was kind of a game changer where I was like, I can sink here again or I can get my life in some sort of order here. So COVID was quite a big time for you where you thought, actually. Why, what was it about COVID that made you be able to like think, oh my God, I might sink? It's like a reset button, wasn't it?

Number one, I was like the first bit I was drinking a lot and I was really like. when COVID hit you Yeah because I'm a work I feel blessed to do this for a job I'd like still now I can't believe that this is what I do and then all of a sudden I'm like at home every day

and I'm like I'll go into the office five days a week with James like alongside gigging acting podcast whatever else I'm doing I'm in an office and I'm writing and we were coming up with new shows

and I look at that that's a day job that's not like a luxury that is my job is to come up with shows white shows and and pay this the job the respect it deserves.

And all of a sudden, it's just me and Catherine at home. And we'd been for quite a tough time before that. And I don't think I'd really like, like, I got my head around a lot of stuff. So, yeah, like we'd, so we've been trying for a child for like seven years. And we'd been for a lot.

And just before COVID, like literally Christmas before, Catherine had like, we've gone for some tests. And, you know, when you have to die and run through your... Oh, you mean, through your ovaries, yeah. Your float pit tubes, isn't it? And then she'd sort of been feeling quite unwell afterwards

and sort of been running a high temperature. And then she was like... And I sort of feeling ill, but she thought it was a flu or whatever. And then I got a call from a moment. She was like, I've been rushing to hospital. And she was like running such a high temperature. And, like, yeah, you go in and you're like... I was in London, we're having a meeting.

and it was like, you know, dinner out type thing. And that's where, like, I look at it and I was like, you know, sort of, you know, TV, sort of meet when you have a look at the drinks and you sort of, and like, I'd left this morning, that morning, she was like, you know, feel a bit rough, I'm just going to have a sofa day. And then, you're like, mom, and she'd been rushed into hospital. So I get there and, like, they're like, her temperature is really, really high. We don't know what it is.

She's just so, you know. And then, you know, you're the next of kin. And you're like, fuck, wow, okay, like, this is taking a, so all of a sudden, you're like, shit okay and then like literally went from there to sort of like you know went home that night she was they kept her in they were like you can't say so you know she was on a women's wars so go home and all of a sudden every thought in your head is like racing of like fuck what is this thing this is like you know she was like you know it's fine this morning yeah yeah she was a bit of a cold felt a bit unwell but you know that was things were going around and then so went in the next day

And then she was sort of becoming more and more and well And you're like, fuck, this isn't, you know. They still haven't found out what I want to. No, and then it was literally, like, there was like an amazing nurse, I'll get on to that in a bit who was really, like, with her all the time. And then she'd said that she'd been in for these tests. And then they, you know, basically that someone died got caught and basically got infected. So she was in early sort of, early stages of like a sort of septic.

of um shock yeah so they drain that and literally she started you know get better and then we were sort of that but that's when we were sort of told they're like you know she wouldn't be able to you wouldn't be able to carry children anymore and you're like shit this is just before this is like literally two days before christmas eve no so you sort of like and then she got released to come out on christmas eve um and you're sort of like there's a air of you that's so thankful that she's alive and she's made it you're like but then also christmas must have been Yeah, and it was, but then, like, I remember at a time just thinking, because she was so ill. Like, when I say, like, you know, and it was really sad because, you know, we haven't brought any Christmas presents.

You haven't wrapped in it. And, like, but you're like, wow, like, she's still here. And that's, you know, if I'm honest, she's, like, alongside James, I'm on that I look at and think, has had, you know, I don't know what I'd have done or where I'd be without her. And that, and that, it was a very real prospect that that might be something. Yes. So you sort of get through Christmas and then you sort of, and then I did that thing that I think now I look back and it was like, I just threw myself back into work.

I was just like, right, you know, work, work. And then, like, I suppose it was March, wasn't it, where COVID then it's in. Yes. Yes. And all of a sudden. God, that's a lot. Yeah. Yeah. And in your head, you're like, you know, you're not really dealing with that sort of thing.

You're not dealing with that stuff. You're sort of like, okay, you know, and we didn't, we talked about it, we didn't, we're just both like, well, you're, you know, you're sort of all right. And I think, and it's, I should say as well, because it's such a, when you've been on a, like, we tried for kids for ages and just, it'd never gone our way. So that was all through your 30s, basically. Yeah, and most of the predominant time together that we've been, been through. And, and you sort of have this weird thing of being like, when you hear people are having children,

and you've tried really hard. It's why I'm really, really conscious. I always try not to, like, you have this weird thing where you're really happy for them because you know it's a miracle, but also you constantly go, why is this not happening for us? Yes. And it's now where I'm really always conscious of that because I'm, you know, above anything else in the world as a dad, that's the thing. You know, for a while there, I was like, this isn't going to happen for me. That's, you know, and it's all I ever really wanted to be, you know.

Really? Yeah, I always wanted to be a dad. I always thought I'd be pretty good. If I'm not going to be honest for you, Devin, Devin, a lot of things I look at in life and think, you know, I've been lucky or as a dad and I've always thought, no, that's something I actually would be pretty good at. And you are, by, from what I hear. I hope so.

Yeah. Oh, Catherine would say that you are. Grace would say that you are, right? Yeah, I hope so. But we, we then, then COVID hit in and we were, we lived at the time outside London. We lived quite a long way from family, like family. Yeah. Yeah.

Quite a bit closer to her family, not to mine. Not so close to my friend. So our bubble was each other. really, and a dog at the time. It was very isolated, isn't it? Are you quite an extrovert person? Do you like people? I do to an extent, but I've less so, not less so, not, but now.

Less so now. I hate people. No, but I still love people and love it. But I think this job takes a little bit of that sometimes. Yes, that's interesting. I think like now, also at 46, I look at it now and I treasure the people I have in my life that I know are there for all the right reasons. And I know that, and that's, I guess, the thing that, so when, so, so, when we're together in, in lockdown, it's like, oh shit, it's just a tour of us in the house.

I haven't got work at the moment to throw myself. Then we had bits, but it was like a lot, you know, and then, you know, those walks every morning with the dog where it's just two of us became like the biggest blessing because you start talking about stuff and you start opening up and you reconnect and they start that. And I think like one of the big things about being married and being in a relationship over, you know, we're 12 years in there is what you realize is at times. that connection does fall up at times, you know, that, and I think it's really easy at times

to think that that's like, you know, that thing where you just go like that a little bit is like there's, that magnet is broken, you're like, you can drift a little bit, you know, as, do you know what I call it. No one. You feel like an island. Yes, you do it. And then you form an archipelago. Yeah.

And you build a bridge. A beautiful word. And you got a bridge between the two of you. And then at some point the bridge falls down. Yeah. And you go off and you're on island for a little bit. Yeah. think, oh, I feel so alone.

Yeah. And quite like it. Yeah. And then you think, oh, no, I need. Yeah, and then you come back together. I think it's, um, that's real love. And you always know that the space to go and come back. But that was really important that we built at archipel.

Archipelago. Oh, God, don't we. That's okay. But, but we then had lots of time to talk about how we felt, about feelings, about where we were at. And, and, oh my God, that is so helpful. And it was kind of lovely. And so, so then I just was like. like, you know, I'd sort of just go on, like, the side of me that was just like, the drinking,

the sort of like, in a sense, been playing this character for sort of a long, long time of, like, you know, the guy to go to, like, you know, stag do's or great to go to the football with. Yes, good time. Good time, guy to be around. Like, I was a good person to be around if you were in a pub and you would get drunk. And literally, I could bump into someone. And James would joke that I could literally go into a pub and come out and go, my daughter does it now, she's three.

This is my new best friend. But I'd go to work and James would be like, I was out last night. Who with? And I'd be like, I don't know, Terry and Mark. Who's Terry and Mark? They're fucking great guys. Bumped into them in a weather spoons. And like, literally, they were at my wedding.

That's what James is, as my best man. James' joke was like, there's people here that Tom's met on a bus. But fucking. Wait, wait. There's someone there that you married that you met in Nando. Yes. which is a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful thing.

It was my favorite thing in your entire biography. I was like, he met his wife, Hernandez, is the greatest thing ever. I want to talk to you about that a bit later, but I want to finish. Yeah, so anyway. About lockdown. So I sort of there made this.

And I was like 24 stone. I drunk a lot and I was like. You were 24 stone. Yeah. And I was just like, I look at it now, I think, like, I sort of lost a lot of. you know that's sort of self-worth in a sense and that's not as like a just

just as myself and just thinking oh that's kind of just who I should be now and uh it's who I am yeah and actually just thinking and actually I suppose it's like that death is a weird thing right I've been for it quite recently with my cousin and um I don't know he talks about it when I was like 16

my dad had an accident where he nearly passed away it was like he was underneath a car walking a car on the car slipped from the thing and fell on him and crushed it across his head And the only person they could get hold of at the time was me. So I ended up going to hospital and walking on my dad just as he was being wheeled in. And then to what happened with Catherine, it was like this weird thing. And I'm very acutely aware.

And I talk to my parents, I talked to Catherine about this, that I carry a lot of stuff that I know that I haven't dealt with. You know, like, I've had quite a considerable amount of therapy because I think it's a really important thing to it. Yes. But I know that's a... Yeah, so I look even now when I talk about my cousin and even like, it's really a weird thing like i remember like it was her funeral two weeks ago

and i remember sit just two years ago yeah yeah it's like yeah awful like terrible and she was like a very like like like incredible sort of human being i was my mom was in fits of tears my sister and katherine and and but i looked at all the men in the room and like none of us from that did like you know i had a tear but i was like i wanted to you know let look like you know really let that out and even as someone I think I'm pretty open with my emotion I was like I can't I don't seem to be it and I think that thing

You got in touch with it? Yeah I think I think or just I can't I guess there's a fear in a sense of once you let that open Yes will it close again Oh my God You'd be able to just will it just pour out I have the same thing Yeah and like a total fear of like

Fuck sorry I'm swearing a lot But if I if I if I People by the way come watch me to stand off and go You swear a lot. I'm like, I'm that fucking scaffolder. No education. What do you expect? I'm not, though. I tell people not to swear for 10 years. But I am always quite scared of if I start,

is this going to be an unstoppable flow? But that's not a reason not to start. and I after I'd had my operation I cried every day at least two or three times a day with gratitude for being alive I just couldn't I just wonder at that

and I was kind of just laughing crying like all the time like I couldn't believe it and it was slightly... I've heard you be like that I cried I cried but it wasn't like that but I knew that if I didn't get that out in some way

Later, it would punish me. It's a strange thing because, yeah, there's a moment. Even now, I feel this, you can feel it here, right? You feel the thing of like, oh, shit, I'm not, you know, I'm letting that go. And that dealing with death and dealing with things. And I think, but also I was, so going, I think I was talking about alcohol. I'd like to ask you quickly about alcohol. Yeah.

So obviously, you know, I'm sober. Are you sober? is it something where you were like, right, I'm stopping everything, or did you just know I've got to cut back? So I, during COVID was like, I need to just sort out how I'm living my life a bit. Like, I can't eat burgers every day. And that takeaways four or five times a week

because I literally at that point couldn't because they weren't open. That's a real begin again. I just want to say, I want to say, because this is like a big thing. There's loads of things here where I can see you have made a conscious decision, right, okay, I'm going to do something. This is a re-bo.

But being reborn during COVID, I think quite a few people will identify with that. But anybody that is living, there's so much online. You know when you're not leading a healthy life for you. You know all of the things that we should be doing to or could be doing to help ourselves feel better. But you did it.

Yeah. But also I think that was down to. So COVID, I wasn't like, I'm going to become sober over COVID. I still had a drink here. Yeah. But what had happened, we'd been told that we couldn't have a job. Like, that wasn't going to happen. And then during lockdown, the nurse who'd been with caffeine the whole time through that,

she got in touch and she was like, look, I don't know if you looked at surrogacy. She was there when she found out. She was such, to this day, is one of the most incredible people. Is she still a friend? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And someone that's just such a special human, and like completely restored your faith in humanity. Yes. And she was like, yeah, I'm like, look, if you've ever thought about surrogacy.

And we didn't really thought about it at the time. And what you're saying is she actually offered herself and then, yeah. So she was like, I've thought about doing it for a while and she had children and incredible lady. And so we went and met her in a park because she had to meet outside. And then we were like, let's all try and give this a go. And all of a sudden, this little hope kicks into your life. And the big eye opener for me is, we then got out of lockdown

and it was a bit like I sort of slipped into we had the big football tournament I went to every game I was like you know like back drink it but I sort of enjoyed I was enjoying it less and less

and we were going through all this stuff and it was quite stressful and I came out of the back of that and then we were I remember going to get like you know checkups and stuff

men's sort of role in that it's very small competitive women the IVF that is like injections you know it's very intrusive we've just literally got to go

knock one out in a room I tried to give that as much like oh yeah this is the biggest one can I have rough the most important yeah this is my World Cup final but we went and then I remember literally getting on like

they did a health check and I got on some scowls and it was like you're seriously obese and it was that moment of going off okay right okay and my weight had gone up again and I was just like and she was like you know if you're going to have a kid it, you know, you're sort of getting on there a little bit.

You don't want to be that unhealthy. So you were in your 40s. Yeah. And then I was like, oh shit, this isn't just really about me anymore. And then, so within, you know, the next Christmas, you're sort of, we started the journey of the IVF and the surrogacy. I really want to ask you about Catherine, because you said something about her.

I love her already. Like, everything you say about her is making me like her more and more. She's a very amazing, yeah. She gave you a lot of rain. like to do what you wanted yeah go love the football because i know you love the football yeah do you think that really helped you make your own decision she wasn't moaning at you going oh no you've got to do this you've got to do that like we've got to have a baby i should say the moment i knew that i was like i love the morning like was she like i remember being out at a party

when we were first together and she just moved to london and i got home and it was like 7 a m and she was getting ready to go to work and i was like you know i walked in and she just gave me look and I went oh so she went don't say sorry but just so you know I'm not a mug and if you do that again I won't be here when you get back and I was I never did that I was like okay cool I know what made you know well she gave you a boundary yeah yeah and I from there I was like don't get me wrong I still weren't drank but he was like you don't take the piss out of me because and then what I love about and my mum yeah yeah like she just said a bit yeah there was no like yeah no no no no no no no no no no no it was it she was like I'm not I'm not here to and my mum said about her very

early on she was like she's you know but you need that and that it is like that is there I was like oh oh this is this is the match really I need in my life this is the thing that you know and I think she's going to be good for me yeah and you endeavor to keep each other happy and become a good team it's a very interesting you know and then when you go through something like surrogacy and go through a lot of the stuff that we've been through we've been through like having no money and all this stuff early on in my career and her support of me working three jobs so I could go and do stand up and follow my dreams and then hopefully give her like you know that back of going like you know because then she was doing jobs she hated and I was like what do you want to do and she was like

I've always wanted to be a seamstress so she went to London School of um uh college of I don't know it's King's College and she was like learning there to become a seamstress so she when it she now does that so she does the thing she wants to do I do that you know but we that's all for supporting each other you've supported each other as a team in your journeys and I think so So when it came to, like, becoming a dad, and after all that, I was like, you know what, like, when you talk about re-be, like, beginning again, I was like, grace being born is going to be the thing that has certain elements of me has to change. Like, caffeine's fine with me going out and having a drinking or that and getting in at two in the

morning, but am I fine with, like, my hangovers will get harder? And I was like, I don't want my, I don't know, like, I feel so blessed to be becoming a dad. I don't want it any wasted mornings. And I won't waste of time where I'm like not getting up and playing with my daughter. Like when what we do, like I can be away for like two or three weeks. So every morning that I get up and I'm like grace in bed with us and I'm messing around with her and you're playing with her toys or whatever, that's a blessing. That's a blessing I never thought I'd have.

So that was like I have to treat that with a respect it's deserved. And that part of me now, that's the thing I had to get rid of. That's the thing because I need to be fitter. I need to be healthier and I make all the wrong choices when I'm drunk and I make all the wrong choices when I'm hung over.

Yeah. So the obsession, and also something clicked in my head of like going, at that time as well, my godmother part, and she was like one of the most important people in my life.

She was an amazing person. She was one of, she taught me how to read. She was one of the people along with my mum. She was like a teacher. She was an incredible human being. She was probably the kindest person

I've ever known in my life. And had an awful, awful. Like one of the worst, like cancer just, them and you wiped her out and it was terrible and she's lucky enough she got to meet grace and that's the thing that I'm so happy for. Oh please. But I look at that and I thought I have to go back to stand up as well.

I had to because I put such a demon, and along with flow being like you can do this, you know, but just be you again. But sort of in a funny going away for her? Yeah, yeah, for Grace for my, for me going, it's not life and death this. And that's what it was before. It was every common steps on stage. It was like, so and so might be there. This might be the last gig.

I might not be good enough tonight. I'm interested in, but for anybody that's got a bit of anxiety or anybody that would be looking to do the thing they've always wanted to do and they're too scared to go for it. And you just said, oh, I didn't feel like that anymore. I didn't feel like it was life or death.

But how? What do you think it was in your life that changed all of that? Ultimately, becoming a dad was like, the most important thing. Yeah. Like, that's the thing. And I like... Nothing else mattered.

Yeah, but also in a weird way of going, like the amount of pressure that I'd put on this thing. But I really loved. Like, I should... I love stand-up. I loved it. It gave me the chance to do what I do now. But I didn't really...

And it's in a weird way. I didn't want to have something sitting on my back for the rest of my life. It was something I was scared of. I was like, that's just sitting here all the time. And I know I can do it. I know, you know. So I was like, that became the thing

that I was like, I'm going to go and try. And it was a bit insane because I'm then having a child and I'm going back to doing. I mean, there's a lot going on there, right? Can I just quickly ask you, what was the first gig back like? How did you feel after it? It was like, I'd literally turned up. I'd done some more much for Ramesh.

And Ramesh was like, he was getting ready for a massive tour. And I was just doing 10 minutes at the top. And Rommish was like, fuck hell, I'm very much about you. but was very Ramesh was a big driver and me going back on stage and as was flow from off the car

but it was like I went up with very little in my head apart from right let's just try this this and this and it went and it went well and that moment you're like shit this feels like that

I feel that person again that I felt when I started and felt like an overwhelming feeling of like like just relief that oh shit I can do this again but loved it and then subsequently from that

it's become the thing that I adore I love doing and from the moment but then Catherine had come to see me at this gig in front of like eight people in Brighton and it had gone really really badly

and it was awful and she never came to watch me so when she came to watch me at the O2 on the tour and like I've never been so nervous to have anyone in the audience I was fucking you know

and someone because I love her also I had a lot of material about her divina or something so she'd feel about it. So she came with friends. She's staring at you all and she's like, good luck, babe, and all that. And I'm like, this one's for her.

I'm going to smash this, yeah. And then gets the interval. I come off stage and I'm like, saying to Flo, like, did you see Catherine? Was she laughing? I didn't see her. And then I'm like, and text Catherine. I was like, you okay?

She didn't text back. And then I'm like, oh, my God. Oh, no. And I'm just sitting and thinking she's not enjoyed this. She's not enjoying it. And then, and he's like, literally got to, you know, like 20 minute interval and you're like 18 minutes.

You know, Flo's like, should we find this? You've got to go out and, like, there's the bulk of the show then. I've got to go and do an hour. And I'm like, and then Antonio, who's like amazing, big part of the team come in. And she's like, I just saw Catherine at the bar. She's having a white laugh at face.

She was on the rosé. And then she texts me just as I was getting ready to go on. That was amazing. I was so, so proud of you. And then you're like, boom. And then went out and had a, it was so much fun. but like that moment of having her there for that journey, that her support,

everything that she gives me is, you know, it's a really like, yeah, it was an incredible thing to have that, that, you know, her there.

And now it's like, you know, she's been to a few more. But, you know, it's an amazing thing of like when you're, you know, I've got amazing pictures now where Grace has been to shows

and she's before the show come and held them like. I mean, she's a little before, I don't know how you were, I look at Grace, I'm like, I've got mates who are sports, sports people.

and they talk about their kids, well, you might have to think, well, look at Grace sometimes and she's like a little performer. She's, there's something in, like James said it really early on, went to an England, we're all filming out in Grand Canaria,

and went to this bar to watch England, and Grace is in this bar, and she's like, it's a really boring game, it's nil-nil, and Grace starts doing this, I can't remember words, it was like, you're making the sounds, you know, the horns. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, she's doing a horn. And all these England fans start, start, like, thing. She loved it. Over and oh and she's like, James was like, she knows that what she's doing.

It's funny and it's made, yes, and she's got that thing. Yeah. And you know, oh God, no, because she'll be a Nipo baby.

But it's a beautiful thing to see. Like, you know, and also, I mean, she's a very sassy little thing. It's my favorite thing. She's got a bit about her,

which I worry about. But I think, I think that's character. Yeah. And that's confidence. Yeah. And that's what you've given her. Um,

I also just would like to talk to you a bit about... This is, by the way, such a lovely... I just feel like, another one, two people are... You have any... No, but I don't know. I mean, probably. Like, I would say... I literally have no idea where we're going to go to next.

It feels like the perfect, like, for two sober people, this is like probably the closest I've been to having a beer on a chat in a long time. So are you drinking at all? No, no. Like, I might... So you're not like... A.A. No, no, but you really don't drink.

No, but also I knew that, like, there was a lot of different reasons. There was a lot of different sort of, like, no, becoming very acutely aware of what anxiety was, how my mental health would be derail from alcohol. Right. From, like, poor decision making or just not being, not just sometimes not being a person you want to be. So I went to meetings, but for me it was like going, I'm just going to try this, like, like this way for the moment.

I've had like a couple of times where I've had like, we went on like a lad's weekend. And the first night there, I sort of peer pressure got to me and had a few beers. And I actually felt really, that was probably the lowest point of it. And I hated myself for having beers. And I got sort of bullied because there was a sort of thing

that everyone else around me seemed to be like, why aren't you? Almost like they felt offended by the fact I wouldn't have a drink. Oh my God, I have that all the time. And then I sort of fell into this thing of going, oh, maybe I have a cup of beers. And then just having this sort of waking up the next morning, just hating myself for it and not liking the person.

And then just thinking actually I'm strong. And that's the thing that for me is like, I notice that there's a difference. When you talk about how beginning again, I look that from moments like that of going, I'm not going to sink by this. I know where I'm at and there's a strength about me now that as a dad, because it's not really about me anymore.

It's about her and it's about my wife. wife, that's everything. So I wake up the next morning from there and I'm like, well, you know what? I've let myself down. I've kind of let them down a bit because I didn't want to do that. But it's just me today, I'm not going to drink. And it's just that day. For the rest of the time, you know, as boring as it sounds, they would all go out.

We'd go out for dinners. I'd play golf. They'd all then go out to a bar and I'd come home and I've watched Gary Neville on the overlap. I mean, great. I know what I'd rather do. Yeah, yeah. But from there, I was, and then weirdly, what I realized.

is that, like, I did a thing called Thousand Blow. Stephen Graham is one of my favorite people in the world, and Stephen was really, like, one of the most incredible, he's become a bit of a mentor, I guess, in a way, and speaking someone like Stephen and other people, and just feeling like, okay, you know what, there's a lot of people like, you know, Eddie Hearn, I saw Eddie the other week at the boxing,

and Eddie's like, you know, he's not drinking. And you look at, you go actually, you know, the stigma around it. People getting stuffed up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that, how to work at what, doing now and you know you know we've launched like me and kaffin have launched like a protein and a electrolyte brand and you're like you do because we wanted to do something together my personal training was and i was like this is this feels like i'm obsessed with like so the fitness thing

became an obsession i was 24 stone i'm like 18 and a half now it's like um but but training is like i adore it's not like i don't look at it's like i and also catholic like it's a non-negotiable out of my mental health. If I get up, I cold plunge. Me too. I don't cold plunge, but I work out. Yeah, I see. It makes me feel so good. It's literally, you know that thing where you look at? I get so excited even by the thought, like, I'll look at training things and go, I can't wait to do this to all. Nobody thinks like that. It's so funny.

But you know, like, how you used to be like, I'm going to go to feel tired. It's so good. And I feel vigoured. And I feel like this morning. And so the days where like you go, I was in bed with Grace this morning. And Catherine got up for a run. Me and Grace is sort of sitting watching cartoon. And then she comes, Caffin comes in and she's like, go and get it done. So you're getting a cold plunge for two minutes.

Then I get a weighted vest on. And then I get on the treadmill for a minute. Sweat it out. And then you feel like the day's my... And I think that's the thing of like, and then you feel stronger. You feel like you're doing things that you don't sometimes want to do,

but you enjoy. I feel good about yourself. Yeah. And that is, that leads me into... Yeah. So when it comes to that, like, I... when it comes to the stigma I around that, like, Catherine's still drink.

She's never been a big drinker. She's, that's not for her. But she's, she'll still, like, have, you know, wines and I just don't feel the need to, and I, and I'm more, like that thing, like I carried, again, like, you know, like you're saying about when you go, when I went away out, I look it now and think,

I don't, you know, I don't feel the need to sort of, it's on other people if they find it. I'm comfortable, I'm not drinking. It's like, I'm quite, I'm still very, I'm a bit more confident with it, I think, about saying, look, I don't, I used to say I was allergic to alcohol because I was so, I got so much pressure. I just used to think it's easier for me to say I'm allergic to it. But now I just go, I just don't drink like it. And I feel fine with that.

I want to finish on one last thing. It's going, go, go. This is, this is, I've really, I've really enjoyed this. I've, I've forgotten times that we were filming something. And also, like, yeah, but also I feel like we didn't really stop between sitting down and, yeah. We didn't take a breath. It was great. I want to ask you, like, if somebody,

because what I'm getting from you is that you are always willing to look at yourself and how can I help myself be happier? Or more content with life. What do I need to do? Who do I need by my side? And I would like to ask you for any. Anybody that's had the kind of life that you've had, like, what have you been through that has been the most useful for you in your life? I think, I think, I think, having knocks along the way, I think it's, and that, that is the thing, that I have an armour, I think, and like, now, don't get me wrong.

there's still things where I go up for a part that I won't get and it fucking, it'll hurt. But there's a resilience to me. I look at people who are around me when I started out as a stand-up who are infinitely, I think, probably more talented at times. But, you know, and that talent, I grew into myself. I grew into what I am now. I think I apologised a lot for... You didn't feel like you deserved a place at the table.

I didn't feel, yeah, like I belonged. I felt for a long time. And that was on me. There's actually really decent people where I look at and think I probably carried a bit of a chip on my shoulder or a bit of a thinking I wasn't good enough because that had been told to me for a long time. So I've probably been told it a lot. Prejudged people and what they thought about me and got that wrong on a number of occasions in this industry. You know that weird thing when you realise actually?

Oh, there's more people that have my back in this than I thought. But I think the interesting thing about that I think you have to will, you have to be ready to change. You have to be like, there's things where I look at and go, I tried to do that thing years ago and I just wasn't ready for that. Right. But also. How do you become ready? There's a side of you that has to, I'll get into this segue, but it's, I've really been unkind to myself. I look at that and I've been like my own harshest critic for a lot.

Do you about that? Yeah. I look at it now. It's a really weird thing. We're doing this a day after the BAFTA's, right? And I sit there and like, I watch people. you know, the winners there and I've done that. And I remember the day of doing it and still not it feeling real.

I still feeling almost apologetic for the fact that we won up after and still like not feeling like I was a part of that world in a sense, still feeling like very much. And I don't think I enjoyed it as much as now when I watch and I realize, you know, at the time I think I was so face up against the wall just thinking like it didn't kind of feel real and it didn't feel even now when I talk about that as a thing. It's like I still make it a joke or I still like, you know. And I think, I think I for a long time felt, you know, I talk about luck because luck is very important.

Yes. There's, you know that yourself. But you have to take advantage of the luck. Like sometimes luck slaps you in the face and that you ignore it. You have to at some point go, well, maybe I'm actually not too bad at this thing that I do. Maybe there is some sort of talent here. But I think, yeah, my thing with it all is just that you're a long time. dead and I think that you know I think Matthew McCona said you don't really want to be

lying on your death, Denzel Washington said it surrounded by the regrets of the things you didn't do. Oh, I look at the steps. That's so good. In life. Yes. Every, like there's been things that I've got, you know, I've just, you know, you do your first drama, you do, you know, different things and not being scared of failure and not being and try and tell young people that because that is, we live in a very different time now and it's a scary time. And trying to tell young people, don't be scared of failure. Don't be scared of not getting that job.

Because something will go right. Again, Dead's a Washington. If you hang around a barbershop, long enough, someone will give you a haircut. Have you met him? No, no, no, no, one day. One day. Listen, I wanted to show you this because you just said it's the book that changed your life. Why did it change your life?

There's a passage in it where he was working. So he's like my comedy, he'd be my comedy idol. I think he's talking about COVID. the low point to COVID. I was going to go to. He was doing a launch of his paintings. In Glasgow I was going to go to Glasgow. I was going to go to. I meet him. And I didn't get to go. So it's heartbreaking because that's, but then there's a weird thing.

Having that since? No. But there's a weird thing with Billy that I look at as like he's like, like a guy, you know, weird, it's such an insane thing to say about something you've never met, but and everyone carries him with it. But when I look at what, like as a, like the writing and stuff and the my style, I've got everything I've done, I look at billion thing, like when he was on the shipyard.

So there's a passage in a book. So I read my mum, bought me this book years ago. And there's a passage in it where he's talking about going professional as a comedian. And he's at the shipyards. And he turns around someone and he says, you know, they say, oh, when are you going to go professional?

When are you going to sort of give all this up? And he said, I'll probably do it next year. And they say, well, you won't. You will never do it. Because next year will come the year after. And then the year after and the year after. And there's nothing worse than being an man in a shipyard thinking what could have been.

Yes. And I never had anyone really on the scaffold site tell me that. But that was enough for me to go, you know what, I need to. And at that point, I was doing open mics, was getting paid a bit here and paid, and I made that leap. And that, so that book changed my life and the basis of like giving it, yeah. So, we may have spoken to Catherine. Oh, God.

And Catherine wrote something in here. I'm going to read it out loud to you because I want you to enjoy it. So, dear Tom. what a ride it's been since that Friday in Nando's. To say I'm so glad we met us just not enough. You made me feel like this is my fairy tale. You are the kindest human and always make people smile and laugh with your unique sense of humour. Grace is such a lucky girl to have you as her daddy and she will be your biggest fan when she's old enough to watch you.

I can't wait for what's to come for you. in this crazy career, but we will be right beside you. Love always, Catherine and Grace gave that. Very sweet. Oh, bliss. Isn't that lovely? That's very lovely, yeah. We will be right beside you.

That's very nice. I was one of the things, right? So, yeah, it is the thing, right? It's, yeah, coming together. It's the past and the present. Yeah. Thank you for doing that. It's very kind.

We love you. Thank you so much. You are amazing.