Begin Again with Davina McCall - Trisha Goddard: Why I’m Doing Celebrity Big Brother While Living With a Life-Limiting Illness

Episode Date: April 9, 2025

In this episode of Begin Again, Davina McCall sits down with Trisha Goddard, the renowned TV host and mental health advocate, to discuss her experience after being diagnosed with cancer for the second time. Trisha opens up about her decision to join Big Brother despite living with a life-limiting illness, sharing the strength and perspective that led her to make this choice. Alongside her, Trisha’s daughter, Billie, offers an honest look at what it’s like to be the family member of someone living with cancer. Together, they explore the complexities of illness, the importance of living authentically, and finding purpose in uncertain times. This episode is a candid conversation about the realities of living with cancer and the unbreakable bond between mother and daughter. 📢 Drop a comment: What’s your biggest takeaway? Follow me here: www.instagram.com/beginagain https://www.tiktok.com/@beginagainpod  Maggie’s: https://www.maggies.org/cancer-support/  (00:00:44) Intro (00:02:44) Joining Celebrity Big Brother (00:08:52) Parents and Childhood (00:13:00) Having Masculine Energy (00:15:29) Trisha's Childhood in East Africa (00:16:43) Close Maternal Bond (00:17:24) Overcoming Racial Abuse & Childhood Trauma (00:25:32) Death of Her Mother (00:30:04) Adobe Ad (00:31:08) Ancient & Brave Ad (00:32:24) Trisha's Accident and Cancer Diagnosis (00:37:33) Wedding to Her Current Husband (00:41:30) Working During Cancer Treatment (00:43:42) Language Around Cancer (00:55:47) Losing Friendships in Turmoil (01:00:28) Challenges in Asking for Help (01:04:05) The ‘Gifts’ of Cancer (01:07:28) Finding Her Soulmate (01:13:18) Why I Don’t Have a Bucket List! (01:15:03) Why I’m Doing Big Brother! (01:17:35) How Has the Diagnosis Changed You? (01:19:23) Trisha's Daughter Billie Joins (01:35:33) Davina’s Final Thoughts Sponsored by: Adobe - https://www.adobe.com/uk/express/  Ancient + Brave - https://ancientandbrave.earth/pages/planet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yes, I've got stage four metastatic breast cancer. Life is terminal. None of us get now out of here alive. I want to deep dive a bit more into why you're here today because something big is happening. I have agreed to go into the celebrity Big Brother house. It's a huge decision to do something like that. You're not doing it for the fame.

You're not doing it for the money. You're doing it for a very different reason. Can you just tell me a bit about that? I would really like to talk to your daughter with you if that's all right. If you can, please could you just click the like button and then subscribe to this podcast? It obviously doesn't cost any money to do that, but it does mean we can deliver great guests to you and you get the episodes first. I'm so happy to be sat in front of you. I can't tell you because as a TV presenter, you know, you were there shining,

a light way before me, a woman in television doing, being a boss, journalistic, intelligent, forceful, strong woman. And it's an honour to interview you. Wow. Also a little bit scary, but it's okay. Really? I'll just, I don't know, I just. Have I scary?

No, not scary, but because I admire you and I think I want to do right by you. Like I feel you deserve the best interview ever. Wow. And yeah, I want to do you proud. Oh, bless you. Yeah. I think you're amazing. Oh, God.

Listen, after all the therapy I've had, the one place that therapists have never been successful is getting me to accept praise. I can't. I really, I really feel uncomfortable with praise. Why do you think that is? Oh, I know why it is. Because I was brought up with the opposite. If I did anything good, I was, and I was proud of it. I was either punished for being, yay, I did this.

I was told not to be boastful. And if somebody praised me, in front of my parents. Mom would be like, oh my God! You know, my mum was always like, oh, tootsie, tootsy, you know, and I got all my own levels and things. You go, tutzi, run up the gun, tootsy, tutzi, tutzi. And I'd be really happy for a moment,

and then Dad would be don't boast, you know, what have you. And so if somebody praised me, like on teacher, parents, teachers and I, if a teacher said, oh, she's doing, right, Mrs. Millard, my heart, my English teacher, who's praise Mrs. Mila. Our praise Mrs. Millard would say, you know, how, you know, she's done really well and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then dad would just sort of stand there and say, well, you've got a good brain, you know. I want to deep dive a bit more into your mum and dad. But first of all, I really wanted to start by asking you about why you're here today because something big is happening.

I finally, after years of being asked, have agreed to go into the Celebrity Big Brother house. And you, of course, you are. You know, you are a celebrity brother. And of course, we were like you were. Yeah, I was with Ryland, you know, behind the scenes. And I'd see you do these live shows. And as my Australian side would say, not to piss in your pocket,

but you with live TV and a live audience remain unsurpassed. No, really, your energy and how you read the audience, you know, because it's live. It's not easy. So exciting. Yes. And when people came out of the house or even going in the house, your sort of awareness of how they felt and taking that and not losing the audience but still giving that person a sort of jolly up.

I just, I think you're brilliant at that. Oh, thanks. But we're not here to talk about me. I love you, Trisha. You're like interviewing me. I hate to. Stop it. Being interviewed so weird.

So freaking weird. But so I, you're allowed to swear as much as you're like, we'll just beep it, don't worry. I was fascinated by that because obviously it's a huge decision to do something like that. It's not like you're not doing it for the fame and you're not doing it for the money, but you're doing it for a very different and valid reason. Can you just tell me a bit about that? Well like you say like every year you get asked to do

Big Brother and I'll be like nah because you've got to be kidding and let me be honest money wise I've been asked a couple of times before when sort of public didn't know but I

was really brassy you know divorce and having to pay people out and all that stuff. Really, I mean, seriously, like borrowing money of my kids for a while. And I still said no, there's no way I'm going to do it. So this one. Why had you said no before in the past?

Why? I had no reason. To me, I had no reason to do it. Yeah, the money sounded good. But I either wasn't in a place where I wanted to do it. It's quite hard. It's quite hard, I think, emotionally being cut off from the outside world. It's a very intense ride. Well, that wasn't, in those days, you know, when I was going through hard times, that wasn't even my consideration.

My consideration was mentally going through a divorce or a separation or your relationship breaking down was not the time to, you know, to expose yourself for all the money in the world. and it just wasn't my thing. I mean, I trained producers in reality television, so I knew, you know, I knew the game. So I didn't want to do it. So this time I was asked. And I said to my daughter, my older daughter, I said, oh God, as usual, you know,

they've asked me to go and do Big Brother. And she said, Mom, you know, while you're going through this whole cancer, shenanigans, you have become passionate about the language around it, the lack of joined up services, the way the press reports it, the misinformation. You're doing it on Instagram, you're supporting people, and they support me, on social media, you're shouting, you know, you're shouting into this void, even on, like, when I do CNN, and I have to, I had to cover Catherine coming out about it,

which is when I decided to come out about it. You know, my daughter said, you've got all of these stuff you're passionate about. I've done local press in America about it. And, you know, Billy said, Mum, this is your opportunity for people to see what you're talking about. not just the words, to actually see what 3.4 million people, according to the McMillans, by December, 3.4 million people in the UK alone will be living, are living with cancer.

6 million people are living with a chronic illness. Now, they're not all on benefits. Most of them are working. A lot of them keep it secret because they think they won't get further work or they'll be fired and with very real, that's a very real fear.

But all those millions of people who could benefit from better joined up services, people using better language about, around them. All of those things. You know, Billy said, hello. So I said yes. And I'm flicking around a bit because I want to talk to you a bit more about your cancer later.

I'd quite like to go back to you were talking about your mum. Yeah. At the beginning. And Agnes came to the UK in Windrush. Is that correct? The Windrush generation as a nurse. Yeah. And you were.

were born in 57? Yeah. And you grew up thinking that somebody was your father. How did that evolve? Well, mum came over, yes you say did nursing training

and dad, as I call him, was another student. I later discovered they split up for a while and then mum came back to him and said, I'm pregnant, what are you going to do about it? So they got married. I'm just laughing about how I found out when they got married. I needed a passport to go on a school cruise that I worked for, saved up for.

And I was about, I know, 1415, and they had all the papers on the bed. And I said, oh, what's this? and it was their wedding certificate and it said they were married in August 1957 and I sat there and said, hang on, 1957 August. I was born in December, 1957. Hello, and my mum did a rugby tackle

that would have saved the seventh. She flew in a way that Harry Potter could only dream of across the room. And in one, she could be an American football. grabbed the stick of my hand like this, which is how I knew it was an issue. But, yeah, that she had the baby, apparently, and I found out later from a friend who came,

because it was the old days, the man wasn't there. Mum's friend came, looked at me and said, well, it's not Peters, don't you, my dad, but he's not Peters. Are you going to tell him? And Mum said, well, I suppose not. And apparently Dad said that he kept asking her. And he said, don't make me ashamed if I have to have a blood test. So like three months later, she said, what, I suppose it's not yours.

And according to Dad, she would never tell him who my father was. I was born in December, 1957, and I say, mum went on to nail Dad's foot to the floor. had three kids. I mean, my sisters are barely a year apart. In fact, one between two sisters, there's a year and a day. And I said to Dad, you know, he said, what was I going to do? We were already married.

And in those days, you know, you couldn't just get divorced. And a black man and a white woman, meanwhile in the States would have been illegal. They got married. Look, you know, people, there were signs indoors. saying no Irish, no dogs, no blacks. They had to move from where they lived in Hackney. You know, they moved to a caravan site. And, yeah, my mum had the sisters one after the other,

but he was always dad. But I all, Davina, I knew I looked so different. My sisters alike than my kids. They had different hair. They were always the pretty one. People always thought I was the boy. Always thought I was the boy. And I was really comfortable with that, you know.

It's interesting that because I think I feel a lot of similarities to you in my ambition. I know you're ambitious. and I love your drive and I love your hustle. You hustle. I love that about you. And I feel like we both have, because I was a real tomboy when I was younger, a masculine energy to us. A lot. A lot. A lot.

You know, one of my kids said, I'd make a good lesbian. I could have been. I could have been. completely um you know i i've never been ashamed of that um i i still to this day in fact even yesterday when i'm all done up i said oh i look like a girl and and that's quite funny right yeah oh look at me i look like a girl yeah i look like a girl um he gets it he the man i'm with get to Alan

we'll get to that Alan but yeah I've always and not been ashamed of that I never felt overtly feminine I've never felt

overtly masculine I guess if I was a young person in this day and age with what's floating round I probably would be called non-binary I don't label myself other than my name You know, younger generation want to label themselves.

But I get it. I absolutely get it, not on an intellectual level. And I know there's loads of people like us, Davina. There's loads of people like us who just fall this side of heterosexual. You can put it that way. I mean, sorry, I'm probably labelling you. No, but I agree. It's interesting you talked about your husband,

because my partner would probably say he's got lots of feminine energy. Yes, my husband's got lots of feminine energy. And that's what we find attractive in each other. Yes. That's what makes the world go around. You know, like we have a little quirk that somebody else finds attractive because they also have a little, you know, that's what's brilliant. I'm fascinated about your relationship with your stepdad

because you did adore him. When I was growing up, yeah. Yeah, when I was growing up. It sounds like he was quite tough on you. I used to, when we sailed on the ship out to East Africa, because my parents relocated to East Africa, and I love my memories of East, growing up in East Africa, tomboy land.

Yeah. We sailed out to the ship. I used to walk around holding his hands and saying, I want to be Daddy's Girl, because that was, you hit Bobby's Girl. And he was my hero in East Africa. He was my hero. I remember he

my parents went out there because Tanganyika had become Tanzania and they needed medics and people to train and both my parents were nurses and so he worked

at the hospital for the criminally insane he was all for giving the people we write off another chance there's a lot of that in you right like I mean when you think about

your TV show about you, your moral framework about helping people came from dad. Yeah. Came from dad. Mum taught me no.

She taught me I had to be twice as good to be half as good. She taught me that I was an ambassador I might be the first, as we called it, then coloured person somebody had ever met

not to forget it. That's good and bad. Yeah, tell me about that. I went to, I won a place. We were in Virginia Water when we came back from Africa, short time in Africa, in Norfolk, which I've had a lot of therapy to get over. That was horrific, horrific.

Just quickly, why was that horrific? Do you mind me asking? We went to a little local school in Norfolk. Remember this is 1968, Tompkins in the 60s. Never seen a black child. before. And my little sisters went to, my auntie was teaching at another school, kindergarten, and we went to the school. And we came with my cousin. And as we walk up to school every day, one kid would go, they're coming, they're coming. And they go, Blackie, Blackie, Blackie, Blackie,

all the kids, like, oh, about 10, 20 kids, Blackie, Blackie. Blackie. The school gate it smackers blacky, blackie like this and there was one blonde girl if my life's ambition is to find her I think her name was Julie

she's to go, I'll fight with you I'll fight with you. Protecting you. She'd come and she'd be get off I'll fight with and I thought for a white kid

to come and find with us every day it's like why would you do that? What did that mean to you though? I mean that... Look for the allies. Don't tar everyone with the same brush.

It's very easy when you get a barrage of racism to think all of them are racist and to think only the ones throwing the punches are racist. They're not because the people standing at the back doing nothing. The quiet races are always the most difficult.

The I've got a black friend or I sat next to a gay person on a bus. They're always the most difficult. But there's, when you meet those allies, they are bloody heroes, DeVina. They're the ones crossing the lines that they don't have to cross to stand shoulder to shoulder with you. They are the saints of this world. Be amazing to find, Julie.

I would, if you, Julie's. We should start a campaign. Julie's around my age. We're going to talk about this after. Yeah. I'm going to help you do that. But, Davina, that time at school, dad, who I thought was my dad, taught me you must never let them see you cry.

I used to get hit if I cried when I got hit. I got hit a lot. So I didn't cry. Can I just quickly ask you something? You just said I used to get cried when I got hit. Do you mean by your Dad? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you used to get hit by your dad.

Really bad, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah. But you really loved him? Up to a point. Yeah. And then when I stopped, DeVina, I stopped completely.

Really? And I never stopped caring about him. No. Because it was physical manipulation, and then it was mental manipulation. but he's complicated. He's not bad. He wasn't a bad person. He put a roof over my head.

When he... Later out, I found out it wasn't his kid and he didn't think I looked at anything like my mother. I looked like him. But, you know, this school, anyway, we used to have school, used to call it school dinners, you know, school lunches,

and you had to sit down at a table. And they, blacky, you know, those. Anyway, I went towards this table and a boy came and hit my tray and the food went everywhere and they were laughing. Blackie, blacky, like this. I wasn't going to cry and went back. And I said, big lump in my thing. They knocked my tray, I think, was eight.

they knocked my tray down can I have some more food and this dinner lady looked at me she said you've had sight holiday she said you've had

and everyone laughed so I ran outside burst into tears I'm sitting on the step I remember it like it was yesterday crying and crying and crying and a teacher came and sat down next

to me and I remember when he looked at blonde air and he had goofy teeth and he sat down next to me and he said you've got to toughen up you know you see people in this country don't want you here and you're going to get this all your life

because they don't want coloured people so you've got to you know this is how it's going to be so you can't cry every time it happens because, you know, basically telling me that that's okay, that's my life. You've got to suck it up. You've got to suck it up and grow a pair because of that.

And I mean, you were in Norfolk for a number of months. Where did you move to after that, London? Virginia Water. Oh, Virginia Water, that was it? Heaven. And so when you moved to Virginia Water, was it any better than Norfolk? Yes. Was it? Why? I guess because the common denominator was money.

people suppose that if you were there and also a lot of airline crews there very wealthy area we were in hospital housing a housing that came with my dad's job our primary school was fantastic

St Anne's Heath I believe Chesney Hawks I know Chesney Hawks went to Stampton's That's quite funny Just to say Yeah No longer exists

And then I won a place to the Posh school, which was my saviour. So William Perkins, I'm so proud of that school. I remain, I followed them on Instagram. I'm so proud of what they do. They were ahead of their game back then. In what way? All-girls school and our then-head mistress, Miss Sames, she used to say, girls, you're top of the 5% of this country.

your women and that doesn't diminish you. It was a real feminist school before family. I started school in 1969 and it was a feminist school overtly, covertly in every way. My English teacher, that Mrs Millard, she nurtured me. She nurtured me. My God, you know, she nurtured me. There was never any snobbery about,

the size of your house or anything. Looking back, we didn't have, but I never considered us poor. But I took my daughter, my older daughter back for a BBC segment. And it was so tiny. And when we passed the spot where Dad used to hit me,

I still couldn't go there. It was like... So there was a specific place that he would take you. No, that he would, I'd get trapped into. Right. So there's a corner you can get out of. Literally, literally.

Yeah, yeah. And when he used to just lose his temper and just, just, he'd always call me bloody bastard child, bastard child. Do you think he carried a fury about that? Yeah. No, I know. Now I know he did.

I know I know he did. You pretty much admitted it. You know? He didn't, he didn't, he admitted. He admitted and, you know, another reason I, I'm very uncomfortable with praise is my, he, he, I mean, I knew it. I was, that dad wasn't my dad, but I was always mad, bad, sad, got an active, imagination, blah, blah, blah.

When I started doing DNA tests on my show, Mama said they don't know anything. But, you know, it was always fobbed off. When mum died, dad told my then husband, had great joy in telling me, that he'd always know, and the whole story, and I asked him,

and I rang him up and I said, Dad, how do you feel? because he'd had to keep that secret. And he'd tried to get mum to tell me all those years. So you didn't know for sure that he wasn't your father? No, I was only when your mum died. Wow. And when I phoned mum's best friend, she said,

she didn't tell you, she told me she told you, you know. She clearly had great shame around it, whether it was because of her Catholic past or maybe I was the result of rape or sexual assault. but there was a lot of shame around it. But she had a lot of pride in what I did. Yes. What I did when I was successful.

I was mum's child. And mum reinforced that literally to her dying breath. She said, thank you for my, you know, she died in my arms. She said, thank you, thank you, Tuts, for my grandchildren. Thank you for my grandchildren. I said, well, you've got other grandchildren. No, but these are just my grandchildren. It feels like you are who you are because of it.

Oh, God, yes. Good and bad. You know, I will never trash Dad. And I wrote something that my kids read at his funeral because I couldn't be there because I'd be notes to everyone. I was having chemo every single. I didn't tell Dad about the cancer. I didn't even tell him about it.

And was that the first time? you had cancer. No, the second time. I didn't tell him the second time. You didn't tell anybody, really, did he? I didn't tell anybody. I didn't tell him because it would have been used against me. But at his funeral, I was really real.

You know, in a world where everything has to be good, bad, black, white, yes, no, you're this side, that side. and all of our truths are correct but none of us have the whole picture and that is at the core of who I am I don't need, you know, coming back to why I'm in the big brother house, I don't need people to like me. I'm astounded and I'm suspicious if people like me.

I don't need to have loads and loads of friends. I'm very much like my older daughter like this. I instinctively don't trust. If I feel I don't trust people or I just get a feeling about them at this late age in my life, I've learnt to go with that. Starting something new can be a bit terrifying, can't it?

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Earth slash planet using my code, begin again. All in one word. I think obviously the older I get, the more I don't want to waste time doing anything I don't want with anybody I don't like. I'm not going to fake anything anymore. It's like life's too short. Yeah, you totally get that. Yeah. It's like time's running out.

Yeah, time has turned over. And can I just say that you with your brain, I don't know the correct word, I'm sure. It was a tumor removal. All right. You with that, in those moments that you don't know what it is, you don't know. know how bad it is, in those moments when you're being wheeled into the operating theatre and you don't know who you will be on the other side, something in you goes, if I get out of this, there's no more bullshit ever. Yeah. Well, you know what was interesting was I let go of the

outcome? Yeah. I really did. You have to. And I was at peace with not coming out of it. Now I wasn't I wasn't because it was a different scenario though I thought I'd just smash my hip I'd broken my hip and that fall

and I'd been hanging on upside down on the banisters for three hours so you'd fallen down the stairs I ran up the stairs oh you ran up and then tripped I don't know how I got there and I went through this thing in my head with my psychotherapist

and I still crops up I don't know how I've been cleaning the stairs and spraying them and I used to always run up the stairs I know you I don't know I think it's like a sign I've still got it

yeah yeah yeah yeah sprint up the stairs so I sprinted up the stairs so it wasn't just a slit so I don't know how I my foot I was barefoot I must have gone on one of the patches.

I don't know. I flipped upside down and I ended face down. I grabbed the banister. I grabbed the banister. I'm like, my legs at a weird angle. And it was pain like I've never felt before

and it was all funny at funny angle. And I thought, can I let go and go to the bottom? Because I couldn't mean my leg. and it's marble at the bottom and there's a door and I thought I was up near the top

I thought if I let go I'm dead I tried and I went so fast and I put my arm down again I knew if I let go I was dead I had no phone and I kept moving and honestly Devena

apparently my hip had not just broken it had shattered. So they had shards of bone floating about. And no connection. Oh, God. No connection internally, apart from muscle and vein.

Anyway, I thought, I shout for Alexa. So I said, Alexa. Can I just say, what a great idea? Yeah. I know. So that is so clever.

Lexus saved my life. Seriously. Oh, my God. Seriously. So Alexa, you in the kitchen or were a little bit? Screamed. Oh, let it happen.

So she said, would that be Alan office? I'm a business. Wow. So she called her Alan. And just to clarify, Alan is your husband. Yeah. He was working in the city. He was taking clients out to dinner.

Right. So he's at a business meeting dinner. And he said, hi, darling. Can't talk. It's so busy in here. All right. I'll call you later. I'm like,

And he hung up, Oh, Alexa, call Alan again. So, calls Alan again. Doreena, I just went,

I just screamed. I like this. Just screamed and screamed. He said, Christ. He said, don't worry, don't worry.

So he called our neighbours. They got our spare key out of the garage. They came in. And one of my native, their husband and wife, and Sharon is a physiotherapist. So I told her,

and she was so good. She cried with me. And finally, when the medics came, she could tell them, don't put anything into her. They kept putting morphine, morphine into me and everything. And I heard them say they had to keep pumping up the drugs. And I heard them say, we're scared she's going into shock. And she's on the verge of cardiac arrest. and they finally managed

I'm screaming and screaming and my leg is just a puky puky angle and finally they get me on to probably end into the ambulance so we get into hospital Alan is on a train

because car would have taken to you on your own at this point or you were doing your paper no they weren't allowed in the ambulance they followed me and then Alan got the train because it was the fastest way, it's 45 minute at New York,

where we are, car would have been in forever. He didn't know what was, he was going to find. He met me at the hospital in emergency and we're there and I'm so drugged off my ketamine, every drug known to man. And this intern walks in

and he said, oh, oh, I heard, by the way, I heard them talking about you. It's, your leg shattered. because of the cancerous tumour. That's the first time since I was given the all-clay clear in 2008. Anybody mentioned cancer. And that's how I found out.

And I said, am I going to die? And he said, oh, oh, I don't know. They'll come and see you. And you were on your own at that point. With Alan. Alan was there. I mean, both of us. So what went through your mind then?

so I was dead because I didn't even think of I'd had what I called up you know people say what you're normal is I'd have I was a cross-country runner weight trainer ice skating

you know I had what I thought was a pulled groin muscle and I was having physio for it I didn't know that it was a sign that my cancer had come back in my hip because it wasn't didn't feel it in my hip at all

and originally it was breast cancer Yeah, it was breast cancer. So it had metastasized. Yeah. So they gave me an oncologist that specialised in bone and then he handed me over to the best oncologists in the world. But yeah. So I had to heal from that and do physio.

I had my operation at 10 o'clock at night. 7 o'clock in the morning. I was in physio. Right, let's go. You know, I'm going to walk. They said we can't discharge you until you've gone up these steps and down. Got them bloody steps and down. I mean, this is where your stamina and your drive from your childhood helps, right?

And working out. DeVina, whatever you go through, the more physically fit you are, however you achieve that, the better the outcome. You know, that's not just me saying it. you know and if you can maintain that through your treatment the better your results and that's not just that's in your blood you see it i see it in my in you know i have full blood tests every three weeks when i have my little chemo and special you know hormone therapy thing um infusion so yeah that started it we didn't tell anybody so what what were you told

your prognosis was at that point did you want to know how much did you want to know? I do I'm one of those people I have to have all the facts that it was you know metastatic that meant it was stage four

I had all my scans I had to kind of freeze my brain we had our wedding coming up so I told I had a physio coming to the house and I was kind of more concentrated on getting mobile and my hit. So did you have a hit replacement?

Did they have to replace the whole thing? No, it was partial. They got a lot of the, where the cancel was just basically it had exploded on that hit. I remember when I flipped over that thud, you know, it was like, it makes me puke to think of it. But they,

I was concentrating on walking again. The lady who came to my house twice a week said, what, you know, have you got, it's always good to have a goal. I said, I've got a goal. I ain't walking up the aisle when I get married with walking frame. You know, and I will be wearing my rock suds. And I did, I walked up the aisle, my youngest who came out and sang beautifully at the wedding, put flowers around it.

I had a gain, you know. And all 99% of the guests knew was that I'd had a form. All my team, my production team, because I was doing a week with six out, you know, Friday, Saturday, live show. All my team knew was that I broke my leg and, you know, where I said this show comes in courtesy of oxyconded. They got it, you know. But why didn't you want to tell anyone? Well, my kids obviously, my kids knew and my husband's kids knew. I didn't want them looking at me at my wedding going,

oh, does she look nice considering? I didn't want it to be that. And also, the first time I gone through breast cancer, I had no control about the news. I mean, I went for my first test before my operation, literally. I don't think I had my operation or maybe I had. And I got a phone call saying, we heard you're in hot,

you're dying of cancer. And if you don't tell us a story, we're going to print it anyway. I hadn't, no, it must have been earlier than that because I hadn't told daddy. I hadn't told my sisters.

I told my kids. I hadn't told anybody. And here was a newspaper going to out me. And from then on, it was a bloody nightmare which traumatised my kids to this day and traumatised me in a large part of why I live in America my kids had to go through to security to come and see me

you know the first time round I thought oh you know when you feel somebody's looking at you and they were paying people within the hospital one person the hospital was fantastic by the way but they were paying people to get pictures of me when I went to the supermarket people people go, there's two boys who are like, oh, there's the one with, oh, there's the one with cancer,

we can get 50 quid if you get a picture of her. I had paparazzi hassling my housekeepers, my darling housekeepers, Bev and I, going to their house and I, I had, you know, everywhere. I had to be moved, the hospital room had to be moved, so there wasn't a window that they could use long lenses with. Interflora, wasn't interflora, it was some freelancer. trying to get into my room. You know?

And my kids suddenly developed lots and lots of friends at school and teachers had never spoken to them. You know, it was bleep nightmare. So the second time around, I had control over it. Yeah. And I wasn't going to tell anybody until I was ready. And that meant those people at the wedding only knew after the wedding.

And nobody knew until, you know, Prince of the wedding. as Catherine came out about hers, I had a wig made exactly like my hair. My colleagues at CNN, they didn't know I was having chemo every bloody week. Wow. And literally one time I got off the table from radiation treatment. Went straight to work.

Yeah, my God. Wow. They thought I was mad. I had a limo outside the radiation thing with all my stuff. I'm going to CNN. But I was really, really ill through the four and a half months. Yeah, chemo. But I don't know.

I mean, I didn't have a day off work, not a single day. And nobody knew. For 19 months, nobody knew. And you know why that was important to me? When I first came out on CNN, I knew it, get to the English press. So I rang up a friend who does things at Hale magazine. I said, I've got an exclusive and this is why I'm doing it. I have to control the narrative.

So I did a photo shoot in a friend, a colleague of Alan's house and hair and makeup came and everything. I was very nervous doing it. Alan came along with me. and when it came out people were shocked and it was like my producers were saying oh my God

oh my God I'm just thinking six months ago I took a day off because I had a headache or I had a hangover oh my God and all that time and I said I'm the same person I was for those 19 months

and for four and a half of those months I was going through hell. I am the same person. You now know I have cancer. There is no reason why you wouldn't treat me in exactly the same way that you treated me for that 19 months and the 30-something years before I've been in the media.

You know, why, you know, people go, oh, the limp neck. I hate the limp neck. And I'd be like, I'm the sake, you didn't know. Yeah. Why now you know? Yeah.

We had a little chat before and I told you about my sister, Caroline, who died of cancer. And it's really helpful of you talking about the language. Wow. Because everyone's different, aren't they? And everybody wants a different approach. It depends on your personality. Yeah. Yeah. My sister didn't want to talk about it.

at all. It was like ignore ignore but then that was very difficult I totally wanted to respect her wishes but I didn't know

what kind of funeral she wanted what she and she'd never done a will but she had nothing really to give away she wasn't great with money but then her office

had given her back she'd been put back full salary she'd been fired because she'd made mistakes but she had brain tumours she had lung cancer and secondary brain meds mom that's mum mum was like really mom never smoked a cigarette in her life but i suspect working on wards as a nurse back in the day mom had lung cancer that went to her her brain same same same same thing and and and so she she she um she just she she was then put back I called her job and I said, look, she wasn't getting bad at her job. She had brain tumours.

Yeah. And she's life limited. And they said, we'll reinstate her in her job. Wow. Until she goes and then she'll get her life insurance, which for her gave her dignity. Yeah. Because she got four times her salary. She had four Godchildren.

Wow. And they were all very good friends of hers kids. None of them were particularly well off. And it would have made, well, I know it made a big. difference to all of those kids' lives. Wow. What a job. Yeah. That's unusual. Right? I went back to her job and had a very

emotional cuddle with her CEO. Wow. It was AMV. They were amazing. And that gave her dignity and death. But it also meant for me I'm sorry, I'm talking to you now, but it also meant for me that she needed a will to make those

wishes clear. So I could get a lawyer. I spoke to the lawyer before. I said, please can you ask you. Yeah, yeah. So as it's always important, I think, as a layperson. Well, for me, I learnt from my sister to ask, how do you want me to handle this with you? Is that what you'd like or what?

Well, let me go back to you using the words life limiting. It was all I could do not to jump out of my seat and throw my arms around you when you used that word. We all have different experiences of, let's talk singularly about cancer now, although I tend to talk about chronic illness as a thing. Because if you've got motor neurone disease or Parkinson's, they're all life limiting. We all have a different approach. In this day and age, every one of us knows somebody who has had cancer.

So if you haven't had cancer, it's very natural to approach someone in the back of your head, your experience, a lover one may be passing away. And it could be that 20 years ago, 30 years ago, and the days when chemo was horrific, and this year, but it still sticks in your brain. Now, the treatment I had in 2008,

was out of date when my sister got breast cancer or half-sister got breast cancer in 2013. I started having my treatment in 2022. Since then, I've been swapped onto a drug that wasn't... Right. There, there. Always changing. Since then, there's...

Since then, when I was swapped over to that drug a year ago, there's another one. Wow. Right. So, but people, and chemo's different. My radiation therapy was completely different from the old days. And each person now has a personalise. It depends on, that's why I get ticked off when people say,

oh, have you tried balm of, I have neuter? I can do nutrition, blah, blah, blah. Because they don't know what meds you're on. There are 47, 48 different breast cancers, all different. Then there's your ethnicity. So now it's to the person. However, when someone approaches you, they have this vision of maybe hell. And sadly, the first thing, and I really appreciate the way you told me about your sister,

but often someone will greet you right off the bat who you never, you have no rapport with, you never met with, with this gruesome death of agony and hell. and then packed your hand. And I now know how to handle that. I say, and you're telling me this, why. You know, your greeting is this story, why. But you're right. The language, like, terminal.

It's a wonderful clickbait for the newspaper. Nobody in medical calls it terminal. It's, as you said, life limiting, as is part of, Parkinson's motor neurone disease at all of those things. There's, yes, I've got stage four metastatic breast cancer, but there's stage four and they're stage four.

There can be a few cells, even if a few cells, you know, hiding in your body, make their way into your bone, you can have six cells and it's metastatic. You can also have cancer like mummy and your sister did in your brain, in your liver, in your kidney, whatever.

And that could be, that's often, that is metastatic. It could have started somewhere else. So what I'm saying is you could be at, as my oncologist calls it, entry level. He says to me, oh, your entry level. And your cancer count can be down here because a few damn cells. Or it was lucky. They caught mine.

luckily, you know, out here. Or you could be, sadly, only have a few weeks to live. All of that is metastatic. All of that is stage four. All of that at some stage is terminal. Life is terminal. None of us get now out of here alive. So life limiting, it's, life limiting might mean that nor,

without the cancer you live till 87 but with it you'll hit 80 my oncologist is treating people with metastatic breast cancer who are 20 years out I've been contacted people with 20 years out because theirs was caught relatively early

so but the press yeah that's not clipbait It's not clip bait. That's what they want, right? Stage four, you're dying. It's metastatic. It's she's poor child at the end of her life. And every time they do that, Davina,

it doesn't just affect everybody who's living with cancer, the 3.4 million people living with cancer. It affects their families and their loved ones. But we don't matter. We don't matter because, it's better to put these headlines. And then all of the guessing games around the King's cancer and Catherine's cancer, totally get why they don't say exactly what cancer is.

Totally bloody getting. I also was really interested in the language specifically around dealing with your cancer. And how annoying that is. and my sister again had the same thing. Oh, did she think the same thing? Yeah. Oh, everybody does. Battling.

Yes, it's so interesting. Let's do it. Battling. She's battling cancer. Oh, win the battle. You'll win the battle. I hate that phrase. There are very few people going through treatment who like it.

Because then there's the language, they won the battle or they lost the battle. and always losing the battle it makes you feel weak and that you didn't personally do something you are responsible for the cancer and by the way people there are enough people telling you that you know

I had a woman who used to tell me I'm not surprised that you had this was before I got before it came back I'm not surprised you got cancer back in 2008 we never have desserts when we go out and you always

have a dessert because I always skip the start and have a dessert right I'm not surprised I never have sugar I don't even have a slice of my I've never had a slice of my children's birthday cake but you got cancer because of that it's funny how people just want to have an opinion about something they tell you

they tell you what to eat what to eat I've had somebody say to me I love you dearly you're a really bright woman which I can't explain the stupidity of you having chemo why put yourself through it

and then a loved one of hers got cancer they were like went to chemo like a racked up of bloody drain pine you know I'm like I wish I could say to those people well God forbid when you get cancer you try that out because they never

do. The other thing, battling, winning, losing the battle. That's one. Giving people unsolicited advice about what food you eat. You don't know what meds I'm on. I feel like saying, wow, and I've had people doing that. I've lost a friend from me snapping back at that. I feel like saying, wow, you're an expert on nutrition from Dr. Google, from the University of Google. You're an expert in nutrition for breast cancer. Which one of them? They go, what? Well, there's 47, 48, which one of them?

And what's the difference in ethnicities? And which chemo will you be doing this nutrition for? My nutritionist has my bloods, my ethnicity, my chemo levels, my blood levels, everything. And if they give any advice, it's specifically for me. They never give it to somebody else because we can all have the same cancer

and it's different. And then, as I said, greeting someone with cancer with the story of how you know all about it because you saw your loved one go through that. You don't know all about it. And as you say, the best way sometimes is to say,

I don't know what to say. Yes. I mean, I think the other thing that I see sometimes is that people feel so bad and don't know what to say, they just sort of cut contact in a weird kind of way. Have you had that? Yeah. Yeah. That hurts, right? My sister was devastating. Yeah, completely, completely. It really does hurt. And with my husband, he went through it, I'm very aware that he went with it through it

with his beloved wife, the mother of his children. Will you just tell the story of what happened to Alan? He nursed and stayed with his first wife. Why do I say stayed with? Because I think it's 70 something percent of when leave their wives or have an affair. When they're ill. When they're ill. Wow.

Is that a stat? I'm in that bracket. Wow. That's all I'm going to say. I'm in that bracket. Wow. They either leave their wives or have an affair while their wives are going through cancer. Right.

As I know. Anyway, can I, would you mind me just asking quickly, so one of your husbands left not less but they are what I'm going to say I'm not going to give details I'm going to read the stats to you

70 something percent of them either leave or have an affair and then eventually leave right put it that way but Alan stayed with his wife

nursed and had two children nine and 11, stayed a single dad until they were at college. Wow. Right. They give him Mother's Day and Father's Day cards. And that's the other thing we bonded on. We've both been single parents, you know.

But I'm very aware he's gone through the trauma. And I keep, every so often I say, I'm so sorry I'm so sorry He you know tells me I look

he's told me I look beautiful when I probably look like Gollum my precious we laugh I've got a very dark humour and that I've had a very dark humour now I've had a very dark humour now

Is that been since it's come back you've cultivated a really dark sense of humour. Yeah, yeah. But I have lost friends. I've lost friends. And what makes me more in rage is that Alan, some of Alan's friends,

a few of Alan's friends, when he needed them because they knew what he would, either knew him when he went through it the first time. There were kind of remarks, oh, you've been through this before, you'll handle it.

but one friend just has disappeared and it's funny I'm a tiger for that I would throttle that guy but not the the woman they're a couple but yeah nothing because I batted back help about help I can do your diet blah blah blah blah and I not even horribly yeah they disappeared appeared, yeah, and it does hurt. But then there are strangers who step into your life. Yes. You know, my skating coach, because I was coming up for my first skating, kind of skating exam, because that's why dancing on ice, wanted to learn to skate.

My half-sisters did skating classes, but I was the brainy one, so, you know. So I always wanted to skate, so I did a dance on ice, and then I wanted to learn technically how to skate. Great. So Rose, my celebrating coach, works with older people and disabled people. It's brilliant. And when I shattered my hip, she would race from the rink. An hour before the, you know, between teaching kids,

race from the rink, come and walk with me, sit and talk with me, race back. when a couple of occasions when Alan had to go overseas for I'd say oh god you know poor I'm we're freaking out I've got chemo you can't tell me I'll take you race drive race back and then with skating because I'm officially I don't think of it disabled because I have no feeling from my knees down because of the chemo so I had to learn to walk again she when we skate, I have to learn because I can't feel my feet.

Now I am too, you know. My oncologist, when I said, I want to skate, you went, oh God, don't tell me. I wear padded trousers. I've got a special crash band. It took a lot. When I came back to the rink, my rink, they all cheered and clapped. But because I was like with a group of adult skaters and we had. adult skating class

which was a hoot. Now I'm coming back like a baby and sometimes I get really frustrated and say I'm shit I could skate before and I'm excuse my friend I'm and then Rose will fill me

and say you go girl oh my God and and when I managed to do something suddenly I'll get from the other ice skaters who I think are just minding no business. Yay! Good job, good job. And I'm going to guess I'm pretty much like you in that we find it very hard to ask for help.

Oh my God, Trisha. Don't even get started on that. Now I've had to recurred. when I'm skating, my adult skaters group, they come to my rink and I've had to ask them because they're practising for exams and things like,

can you skate with me? Can you hold my hand? Or I had to say out someone, can you help get my skate guard? And they come, hold my hand and they'll skate round with me. I want to touch on something about you getting help.

Because I think it's very hard to start asking, but once you've asked a few times and you get the help that you need and deserve, kind of changes you a bit, right? No. It doesn't? No. We still find it hard. Oh, do you?

Look, let me say, cancer the second, cancer the first time round, which was a comparative walking apart. gave me gifts you know it gave me gifts I can I can always see the gifts

an experience gives you and I feel for people who've never had anything bad happen in their life they exist

they exist because of the gifts that something bad yeah yeah or because they're so scared they become so scared of something bad happening that it's what I call gilded cage.

They shorten their world, limit their world, won't do this, won't do that. As the older they get, the smaller their world comes. And they think with a life limiting condition, you have to push back against that, you know. But the gifts, I've got more gifts than ever from cancer's second time round. my kids were teens doing GCSEs and A-Levels the first time

and didn't get the special turn back, refused. You know, they offer you that extra help. Yeah. That I'm immeasurably proud of my kids. Yeah. Inmeasurably because they've walked through poo. And they've used that poo to plant the most beautiful roses. But they were offered special dispensations.

No. they wouldn't take it and they still came out and you know I remember them on the lying on my hospital room floor doing homework

and they refused any extra help and still got brilliant results and it was important for them that they weren't victims and that was a gift but the second time around I've had to be, I had to learn to be far more honest because they're not teenagers, they're adults.

Yeah. And if you keep people close to you in the dark, they fear things that probably aren't even there. And I don't know if you felt that with your sister. When somebody's not opening up to you or you feel you're being shut out, you feel the reason they're doing that is because it's bigger something. even more catastrophic than what's going on. I've started being able to ask my partner for help. I feel like Alan.

Oh yeah, can I ask Alan for help. I feel like Alan is your soulmate. Yeah. Is that how you'd describe him? Yeah. Yeah. How old were you when you got together with Aaron? A young child at 59.

And did he, was he? I mean, were you in love before in your life or was he like the first, do you think? I thought I was in love before. Yeah. I thought I was. I genuinely thought I was. But intimacy is what I didn't have before.

Intimacy, I mean true intimacy. I don't mean just sex. A real connection. Real connection. I didn't know before I met him what true intimacy was personally, sexually or anything. The fact that in the early days, you know,

of making love, he was cognizant of me needing my precious sleeve or about how I felt about my scars or how I felt about, you know, all of the things that he'd instinctively learned through loving and nursing his first wife through cancer. I mean, I didn't have cancer when I met him, but he knew everything, intimate things that happened to you

when you're on cancer medication, all that sort of thing. Now, he knew all of that. He knew how to approach me physically and mentally without it ever having to be discussed. he asked me questions and talked to me in areas that no partner ever had before he is the first relationship that I've been in not counting my kids of obviously for me

he's the first partner I have had that he's the first partner I have had that he's proud at me. He doesn't even say it. He watches every single thing that I'm in. He will be talking with his friends and he will mention something that I've discovered

in a news programme. He reads all the British politics and news and everything. He reads he never did before. So we have a conversation he's razor sharp he's travelled all over the world he has introduced me to his spirituality

which is Judaism he's Jewish but also follows a lot of Buddhism I've introduced him to Christmas the first Christmas he was like a kid a child this 16 something that it was just like a child He comes into churches with me And I'm not Holy Roller, I'm just really spiritual

He comes into churches with me Unbidden I said, what are you doing? He said I'm lighting a candle For Winnie and your mummy He sat with me I found a very lovely church When we were here not long ago in Kensington

And I sat there, Davina And I don't do crying because I was hit if I cried as a child. But I just started crying and he held me while I prayed. So I will like candles with him and if he's travelling and it's Hanukkah, I will like the candles. I will say the prayers because he will say my prayers. That is intimacy.

He's the first part I've had. admitted to any spirituality. First partner I've had it who says, I'm proud of you. And still when we're going out and I come down the stairs dressed up, he'll say, he'll look up and he'll tell me, I'm beautiful.

I tell him to F off. He just sounds great. This is goofy and we laugh and we we're inappropriate my kids would go you can't talk like that we you know and he's we play

we have fun and we do mad cat things is it I mean obviously being life limited you are conscious we all know that there's an end to life like I'm going to die you're going to die

no you're not but you're not but you do you have like something like a bucket list or? No. Do you hate that? Hate it. Oh really?

Why? Hate it. Because why wouldn't anybody have a bucket list? It doesn't have to be life limit. I always. So when my sister didn't manage to do, we thought what would you like to do? She didn't get a chance to do that. I was thinking I'm doing my bucket list now.

What? Live your bucket list. Yes. Do everything you want to do. Why are you waiting until you die to be happy? Yeah, I know, until you get a life sentence. it's bollocks or bollocks you're right it's absolutely

are you putting yourself out of your comfort zone more like experience everything but I always did yeah okay I've signed up for that Alan doesn't want me to jump out of a plane and my oncologist just said that is a step too far so I signed up with my eldest daughter to do that thing where you

you know I bought us for Christmas where you know it's a control thing like you jump out of the plane zero gravity and... Oh, yes, okay, yes. Yeah, so I signed up with her to do that. So, like, just do the thing. Want to do the thing, do it.

I've always been like that, you know, but this pushes me further. In terms of... That's why I'm doing big brother. Well, I was just going to say, in terms of, like, Big Brother, you know, if you, if you were thinking about legacy, obviously you have your whole career as legacy.

I hate that word. What, what, oh no, I think that's a great word. Why? I suppose. It's like, to me, it's like, I get asked sometimes. It's like, what, what imprint have you made on the world? I think that's a good thing. I've been asked, seriously, by somebody, a journalist or somewhere, somewhere online,

what would you like to be remembered for? I'm like, fuck off, I'm not dead. I mean, I guess, I think about that and I'm not dead. Like what have you left imprint? Where like what difference? I want to make a difference. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I do. That's a legacy.

Oh, is it? No, I really think it is. I think it's like, you know, you revolutionise television in this country. Trisha was like the most amazing. It was like way ahead of its time. You're a woman, you're a black woman, doing something really powerful, strong. smart. Like, you,

that's a legacy. Like, that's, that's, it is. No, it is. I'm going to pay you a compliment. I'm sorry, you're going to have to take it. You've got to just say yes here,

Tricia, because it, I'm speaking. Hello, is that my therapist? I'm speaking the truth. Um, and I guess, you know, maybe you've, you've done it.

But I wondered, you know, because like, also I think you're going into the celebrity big brother, how, at the beginning you were talking about, your daughter saying go in there, you've got a message to leave. That's another one.

I hope so. That's another. But you see how I see it, I guess I'm saying that how I see it. I'm sublimely proud of the work that people I've helped trained in the media have done because they've done that with mental health input. Yeah. And I hope they've brought some of the things, caring things, the less. cut-throat things at this industry.

I'm sublimely proud of how mind has developed because I was a patron of Norfolk, Norwich Mine, for a long time. I'm sublimely proud of how they've developed and how mind has developed. And the woman running mind is I know from way back. I'm sublimely proud of, if you want to call it, legacy. I guess that's what I would call it. Yes.

What my children have done in their particular spheres in mental health. there are people who will take the baton that you give them and throw it in the bushes yeah there are people who will take the baton shove it up the backside of those who need a kickstart hand it to other people

you know one of my friends in my group my little group for going in the big brother house is a kid that's up in the audience, I want to be in television. And I said, all right, you'd be a runner. Runner, researcher, producer, da-da-da-da. Now in the big game.

Your legacy. And it's become a friend. And as bubbyes, all the people, all the people who used to be on my show, they get together every year with their bubbyes and they send me a picture. And I'm so proud of those people for what they've done. But do I see it as me? No. No. So I've got to wrap this up now because I would really like to talk to your daughter with you if that's all right in a moment.

But I would like to ask you one final question before we invite her in. And that is how has learning that you are life limited changed you? Has it changed you in any way? Yes. I tolerate Borsha even less. I don't go out of my way to make friends. If I've got to work too hard to connect with someone, I'm not rude, but I feel with limited energy, how am I going to best utilize that energy? And if it's crawling up somebody's batty,

I ain't doing it. The people I'm intimate with, I think, I hope I'm more intimate with. I made friends with my dear darling friend, Sarah, who's been going through cancer with me when nobody knew I was going through it. Listen, I'm going into the Big Brotherhouse. I would never have done that before. It's to me, like jumping in that ocean.

I know I'm going to panic for a while. I have learned how to self-soothe, as we call it, talk myself down. I don't know how I'll be. I enjoy nature even more. Yeah. I did anyway. I forgive myself more. I was always very hard on myself.

I forgive myself more. Yeah. Well, very kindly, your daughter, Billy, said she, come and take a seat next to you and tell me her experience of what she's gone through with you as your daughter. So I was just wondering if we could get Billy in. Woo, woo, this one's beautiful girl, Lindo. How was that for you watching your mum? I mean, most of the stories I've heard many times before.

So, yeah, pretty normal. There are a few things that, yeah, made me set up. No. When you were saying, you know, talking to your sister about writing a will or funeral arrangements and I realised suddenly that's something I completely haven't done. So, yeah, a few moments were... With you? I ain't writing any will.

Okay, exactly. They've got a form. I'm meant to put out, you know, I've said, if ever I, you know, when I had that operation, do you want resuscitating? I said, hell yes. Because there's other things you need to consider, though. Yeah, but I'll say, you know, throw it all at me, you know. I don't want to leave the party if I can dance another few rounds.

I know, but that's what I think makes those conversations particularly difficult. Yeah, yeah. Well, there'll be a time and a place. I think what's difficult when you really love someone, so obviously you two really love each other. I'm sure Alan, you know, really loves you. My experience with Michael, and obviously this will be different for you guys

because as we know, everybody's different. Yeah, yeah. But my experience with Michael going through, my brain tumour, was the hardest thing we've ever been through because we go through everything together. Yeah, yeah. He was with me when my dad died. He's just all the difficult things that we've gone through.

We've gone through together in parallel. But this, we were like, We were like that. I was going through my thing over here and it was so hard to explain what it was and he was going through his pain over here. Yeah, yeah. And it's only kind of after four months

that we've been able to come back and have honest talks about it because it's hard to understand each other's needs. And I think he wasn't going through this difficult thing over here but his was equally difficult but in a different way. Yeah. But you're slightly wrapped up in,

well, my thing's difficult. You know what I? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you don't mind me asking, but you can first just say, like, don't want to talk about it. This idea of wanting to know what your mother's wishes would be at the end

is something that you would like to know about, but it's very hard to talk to her about. how are you guys going to resolve that? Is it, because is it, I've already written, I've got a death book, you can buy a thing on the internet called a death book. I've written a will, I've written all my plans for my funeral, yeah. I'm surprised that you haven't.

Yeah, no. No, I think it's, maybe it's easier if you don't have a diagnosis. I think I could have done it before. In fact, I did. I actually did. I have got a will from before. I've got to change it.

But I have got a will from before. But obviously it's since I met Alan or that's something, I haven't updated it. So it was easy to write when I didn't have the diagnosis than now. Yeah. So, yeah. I mean, the other problem with the will, if you don't update it, then the...

The, the, the, then the old one still stands. Yeah, I know. So when I, I went for an operation and I did letters of wishes for my kids and things like that so that they would know. But I do know what you mean. It's almost like, it's almost like admitting. Yeah. Or no, or bringing it upon you. Yes.

I know that it doesn't sense. Yes. That you're manifesting it in some way. Yeah. Yeah. I totally get that. Yeah. All right, the will.

Yeah. Yeah. How hard is it emotionally dealing, how hard was it for you emotionally dealing with it when it came back? Incredibly hard. I had to go back to therapy, back to my recovery group. Yeah, it was really hard. Not as hard as the first time. I think going through it as an 18 year old. Yes. Nothing can really prepare you for that. So this time it's not been, so difficult but then obviously when these sort of big words are thrown into the mix like incurable and or as we were hearing initially terminal you know of course you freak out of course you think the worst and living in a different country from mum as well it's very stressful you know she has Alan who is amazing but at the time when this happened I'd only met him a few times I had no idea who he was and suddenly I had to trust this you know pretty much stranger to look after mum and that was terrifying And so yeah, lots of things are difficult, but I don't think anything could be more difficult than being an 18-year-old and having to do that.

Can I ask you about that? Because there will be people watching who will get a cancer diagnosis. We know one in two of us are going to get cancer. And they will have to tell their children, how can you best support a child going through that kind of diagnosis? What did you need? You didn't have any support. I didn't have any support.

I don't even think anyone even asked me if I was okay. Oh, teachers, strange teachers were like... No, people made assumptions. People would tell you how you should be feeling. Yes, but this is what your mum was talking about. No one actually asks you, you know, what would you like? What do you need? How would you like this to be spoken about?

That's never a conversation that's had. And I think at 18, at 18, when this happened, I felt completely out of control. My stepfather also made it very, very clear that we couldn't bring any other issues into the home. okay I might have crippling depression and anxiety, but to mention that was so selfish that I was not allowed to. And what that meant is at that time, I was already sort of dabbling with drink and smoking a bit of weed, but I then started bunking off lessons,

not going to school just to get high, just to find some way to escape what was happening. My boyfriend at the time and his family were great, my friends were great, but I dreaded going home. I dreaded having to, to deal with it and yeah i feel so you know the thing is you don't know until afterwards yeah i didn't find out and i still i'm finding out snippets of what was happening at home um and that

you mean about about um what was that father your your husband saying don't bring any other stuff well and and other stuff and I feel I was thinking the other day you know I feel often if I feel guilty about something I sort of smirk to myself I feel guilty about the choices I made in partners I was just kind of joking with myself you know but yeah with a serious side I'm not joking No, no, no. Well, you know when you're sarcastic with yourself, you know, you silly cow, you know. Yeah, you only find out later what was going on

because you're just so consumed with radiation and chemo and what's happening next. I think in that situation, you know, he was trying his best, but obviously he had no experience of this situation. Yeah. And he went and asked it, and I think I was at an awkward age. My sibling was still a child and I was 18. You know, I had a car.

And everybody thinks, You're an adult now. Yeah, I had to share the responsibility. I had to do the shopping. I had to, you know, and I couldn't. I couldn't. I wasn't equipped to deal with that. And it came so suddenly.

He was like, one day you're next thing. Yeah, but I just found more and more needing to escape. You came to the hospital though. And that was horrendous every time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially then when we, and the press intrusion. Press intrusion. Were you aware of that?

Oh, yeah. They were climbing over the gate. trying to get into our homes. So you didn't feel safe. No. No. No. And then even when you had to do the security to come to the room.

Yeah. The whole thing was so stressful. I'm not surprised that. I sort of drank and smoked my own to be honest. Do you, I heard your mum say earlier that one of the benefits, not benefits, but one of the good things that's come out of the second time is that she forgives herself. Can you find?

compassion for yourself that girl back then? Yeah, 100%. I've made peace with that. But I do think, and I think the reason why I agreed to do this and speak about it is, yeah, I think there needs to be a bit more awareness about how to speak to your children and other family members about it. And there's still your children, whether they're six or 16 or 26 or whatever. Yes, exactly.

children and you're still their parent and it's always going to be difficult and I just think making space for really honest conversation where everybody's encouraged to share how they feel it's great because otherwise no one's going to share no one's going to say oh I was crippled with anxiety today when mom's got got breast cancer like that just seems ridiculous but as a normal things happening no that's the thing cancer becomes but they're normal you know normal things other things are going on and this message of suffer in silence because cancer

is the Trump card Trump card and also I think the lack of support outside the family in an ideal world they would be they are with the children of alcoholics

there would be a group or something or something yeah where did you go because you said I've got a support group what is that Oh, so I went into drug and alcohol recovery in 2016. So that's never going to. And to leave me. You go back to meetings.

Yeah, when I need to. Yeah, great. And is there a support group for children of people with cancer or not that I'm aware? If we're not aware of it, I'm not saying there's not. There might be local ones and what have you. But I think it should be just part of the scenery. X is diagnosed with cancer. if you look at the family

you know I'm lucky enough if I'd gone through it in where I'm at in Sanford we get massage we get nutritionists we get gym membership the list is a never ending

but Alan is included in that he can have massage he can go to the therapy no if I lived in the same country if she was a child under 18 she would have access so they look at the person

as a whole, the family whereas I don't, I'm not aware Maggie Centre. Maggie's are brilliant, I've got to say, yeah. And I helped do one of the launches with Sarah Brown back in 2008. We'll put the link for Maggie's. Yeah, absolutely shout out for Maggie's.

But it should be normal whenever anyone is diagnosed with a life-limiting illness that the whole family is considered. And maybe the specialist sit down and explain to the whole family in an age-appropriate way and that there's support groups because if you don't, let's talk about dollars and dimes, it's going to cost you more. Because the diagnosed person can easily, easily slip in.

to depression and what have you. Meanwhile, the kids and everybody else are just going, they've all got their issues. They don't know how to handle it. Nobody talks to them about your go through this or that. Nobody says to the other parent, your kid will still, you know, the problems they may have had beforehand

will disappear magically, you know? I'm, and I think just one last note from you, I just would really like, somebody is going to try and talk to the child of someone who's going through a life limiting illness, what should they do? What pointers can you give them? It's a great question. I think the first thing is to listen, give them a safe space and just listen. Don't make any assumptions.

Don't put any words in that everyone's going to have a completely different experience. And I think what I have always felt is really lacking is just the space, just to dump and just get everything out. So I think that's the most important thing. And I think secondly, just to know that, you know, you are probably going to be depressed and you are probably going to be really anxious. In fact, it would be really weird if you weren't. And I just think someone needs to tell you that.

Actually, what you're feeling. It's big feelings. They are, you'd be weird if you weren't feeling them. And I just think there was no one to give that reassurance. And, you know, you're made to feel like you're too much or you're taking or you're selfish. But actually, no, I think kids just need space to say what's on. their mind and just a bit of validation that what you're feeling is completely okay yeah yeah yeah

that's a good point i've got to wrap it up but i just want to say that was really really impactful isn't she good and super no super helpful i think also for people who just don't know how to communicate with people with a life limiting illness or the child of somebody with a life limiting illness and it is that thing of like I just don't know how to approach it it so I'm not going to approach it at all and that's so brilliantly helpful that you've done this

so thank you to both of you it was such a joy to meet you as well well done you good job yeah well done that was absolutely magic I've obviously had just the utmost respect for Trisha all my

career she was an absolute trailbla for me. But to and just to talk to her to unpick a little bit what it's like to find out that you're living with a life limiting illness and you have really good kind of messages to send out to people about

how to deal with talking to somebody when they have a life limiting illness. And I think that would be very, very helpful to a lot of people. So anyway, it was really nice to talk to Billy as well. That was absolutely incredible and to see them together and to just see that talking is important. Sometimes it's hard, sometimes it's painful,

sometimes you feel like it's the wrong thing to do, but actually unpicking something and giving someone the space, a safe space to open up and be honest is invaluable. example.